Traveller-digest      Friday, January 31 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 900



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: G or not G update
Marc Miller!!!  Rah!!!
Re:  Some thoughts on QSDS
Re:  Some thoughts on RPG design (long)
Re: Solar Radii
Re: Solar Radii
Jo Grant
Re:  Some thoughts on QSDS
Re: TNE bashing
Re: Stellar Radii?
Ship Design systems
Memory Alpha
SSDS weapon conversions
Re: Simpler Design
Re: Common Vilani names?
Traveller on IRC
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #898

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:41:23 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: G or not G update

> From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> Subject: Re: G or not G update
> 
> On 01/29/97 at 01:20 PM,  Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
> said:
> 
> > So the Terrans forced their will upon us during the Misrule of Man, > >so why not throw the yoke of past imperial oppression off and start  > >afresh with Sylean Gravity being the standard 1G
> 
> But Colin, you misunderstand. Terra's gravitational pull is 9.8m/s.  A >G in Traveller is defined as 10m/s...and as all Syleans know *our* >gravitational pull is 10m/s! ;-D

	The surface gravity of Capital/ Core (ie Sylea) is given (in Travellers
Digest #9 pg 12) as 0.69 g.

	1 gravity is approximately 9.826 m/second therefore 0.69 g is
approximately 6.780 m/second which is close enough (for non scientific
purposes) to two thirds of 10 meters per second that Syleans might think
that  1 Traveller (10m/second) G = 150% of what I am used to weighing.  
	
	For those of you out there on starships that don't allow the crew to
control the gravity in each cabins seperately one good way to encourage
party bickering & petty conflict is to have different members of the
crew all want the ship gravity to be set equal to the gravity of there
home planet (sort of the way that your annoying coworkers always want
the heat lower (or higher) than you prefer).  If you wish to play an
annoying (or low Charisma for TNE people) whining about the gravity is
an excellent trick, but do not take it to far or the other_players_will
become annoyed. ):

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:29:03 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: Marc Miller!!!  Rah!!!

>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 05:54:39 -0500 (EST)
>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>Subject: Re: "Miller" inside jokes
<<<...snippage...>>>
>
>Marc


Marc,

 I know I haven't said it lately and I'll never say it enough, but I will
say it now...

1. THANK YOU!!!  Thank you very much for the Traveller Universe.  You are
the mind behind Traveller and ever since I found it, I loved it.  I made
some comments about CT and MT not being Traveller to me, but please
understand, that is my opinion of the rules, not the background.  I don't
mean any offense to you about that, and I wanted you to know that I truely
appreciate what you have, are and will do for Traveller in all of its
incarnations.

2. THANK YOU!!!  Thank you very much for putting up with us on the list and
dropping in every now and again to talk to us.  I know I appreciate knowing
that you are still here.  I also am glad that you still make the time to
talk to us.  It would be very easy for you to say, "That bunch a lunatics!"
and unsubscribe and never come back, but no.  You stick around and put up
with our petty bickering and fussing and fighting.  Thanks.

Sorry for the break, but I just had to say this.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg)  Roger Camp,  Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii,  Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 00:19:54 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re:  Some thoughts on QSDS

On 01/30/97 at 11:41 PM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:

> Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de> wrote:
> > What I'm asking for is a ship design system that is a *lot* simpler than
> > QSDS (and SSDS especially).

> OK, I'll ask:

> Simpler HOW?

Good question!  QSDS *is* a simple system. 

> QSDS's design goals were:
> 1) To require nothing more complex than a pencil and a single sheet of
>    paper to design a starship, and
> 2) To enable a first-time user to be able to design a complete starship
>    in under an hour, and an experienced user to be able to design a
>    ship in less than half that time.
> 3) To be reasonably accurate (within 5% of the "correct" values).

> I'd love to hear feedback from people who've used it to design ships. 
> How long does it take, and which steps are the hardest, most
> time-consuming, or most confusing?

It took me about 30 minutes for the first one and 20 to 30 for each one
after that...and I did them while I was watching Babylon 5 and DS9 on the
TV.  <g>

After I did the first one, I made up a worksheet like form so I wouldn't
forget anything and just went down the list with vol in one column, power
in another, and crew in a third.  I remember doing a subtotal of power and
vol part of the way down, but that wasn't required, it was just because I
wanted to build in some redundency and wanted to make sure I had room left
when I was through.

I *did* use a pocket calculator to add up the numbers, but I think I did
most of the multiplications in my head.  I don't guess I'd reject a
spreadsheet, but it seems like it might be overkill for QSDS.

> 10 Minutes, hmmm ... well, it's a goal.

Probably doable for a really simple ship...don't worry about crewing, or
workstations, or exact volumns, and no weapons.

> > "Greg Porter seems to be the last *real* designer.".

> I have a lot of respect for Greg's abilities, and I have yet to see a
> game or suppliment from him that I've been dissapointed with. 

Yeah, I like CSC.  I like CORPS.  I don't own Guns^3, but if I can find a
copy I'm gonna buy it.  Greg does good work.

You might not be able to say it, but I can...Guy Garnett does
good work too! I think QSDS *very* good.

I've said before and I'll say again...we need a detailed system so we can
build more components for the QSDS system, we need the vehicle and starship
systems to "jive", and Guy, you need to extend QSDS to any sized ship. 
Then all the ships in all the books need to be designed using the systems
and include DECKPLANS!!! ;->

That's what I think we need on the ship design front.

Thomas, if you can create a more simple system than QSDS that
produces ships compatable with it, SSDS, and the forthcoming FFS then go
for it. Best wishes in the attempt.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:39:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re:  Some thoughts on RPG design (long)

     Since I raised similar points a couple days earlier (but not at such
length or so insistently), I'll try to ennumerate a little more closely the
inadequacy I feel within QSDS.  Note that I don't have Book 2, High Guard, or
MT here with me so all comparisons with those are made completely by (probably
faulty) memory.
     I've designed exactly one (1) ship with QSDS and while it wasn't too
terribly difficult or time consuming (I think it took the better part of an
hour while simultaneously watching tv), I didn't feel all that satisfied with
the end result, either.  The main thing I didn't like was that we're given
pages and pages of tables to chose components from, without any rationale
ebehind the numbers to allow us to extrapolate in-between values.  Rather than
a big list of parts with seemingly-random numbers attached to them, I'd rather
have had a few flexible guidelines which could be expanded as per the referee's
needs (such as, for instance, expressing more values as percentages like "the
jump drive typically takes up xx% of the ship's total volume per j-level, with
a mass of xxtons and cost of xxMCr per cubic meter").  I don't know if the 
values from FF&S lend themselves to such linear/geometric expressions, or if, 
in fact, anyone besides me would be any happier with the extra math involved, 
but I would much prefer something like that to the current arrangement.  The
same goes for hulls, m-drives, power plants, and maybe even weapon systems.
     As for adding up big columns of mass, volume, and power-usage, it seems
that more approximate values would serve just as well for our (or at least my)
purposes.  I especially don't see why we need to get down to tenths and
hundreths of points for power use.  In fact, I seem to recall that Bk 2 and/or
High Guard didn't require adding up power points at all, and had a simple "x
drives require y power plant" rule that would suit me fine.
     I can't recall specifics here, but I recall being somewhat confused by the
weapons-systems in QSDS and all of the different values on all the tables.  
Once again, I'd have prefered, instead of a big list of components, a basic
explanation of how the numbers are formed which would allow me to generate my
own components.
     The jist of all of this is that I thought the current arrangement (copious
lists of parts without any explanation of how the values were generated)
combines the worst of complexity vs flexibility.  Having to look through all
these lists to find the appropriate parts and then min-max and crunch numbers
to get appropriate final values is complex, maybe not As complex as the full
FF&S rules, but still more tedious math than I, for one, care to do.  And, for
all that, we still don't have that much design flexibility-- we can't build
ships above TL-12 or 5k tons, and with all other components (including hulls)
we're limited to what's on the tables, whether it fits our needs or not.  My
distant memories of High Guard tell me that it definitely was more flexible in
design (up to 1M tons and TL-15 (+?) with a large variety of component systems)
and, whether or not it actually was, seemed easier (in memory).  I think that a
really useful simple design system should attempt to match that.
     As a final note, assuming that a system which suits my needs better
doesn't come along, I'm planning to use the SSDS for all future ship designs. 
The simplicity of the QSDS just isn't enough to make up for its lack of choices
and flexibility.  When/if I want to build ships larger than 5k tons (to make,
for instance, the navy of a non-Imperial pocket empire) I don't know what I'm
going to do, but I won't worry about that yet.

Hope this helps the ship-design folks to see where my complaints are coming
from,

Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 00:45:09 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Solar Radii

On 01/30/97 at 04:27 PM,  starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf) said:
> As the thruster plates push against a gravity well, it would imply that
> the thrusters also would work outside the stellar radii limit, but close
> to a planet. Probably limited to a few hundred diameters.

Hum, well gravity is gravity and radii are radii...so if thrusters work out
to 2000 stellar radii, then they should work out to 2000 planetary radii as
well.  <g> 

For Saturn that would be ~60,000*2000 = 120,000,000 km radius with Saturn
at the center!  Now, that's the better part of 2 AU across, and I *think*
Saturn's 2000r limit overlaps Sol's so maybe you can get to Saturn on
thrusters after all. <bg>


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:02:08 GMT
From: starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf)
Subject: Re: Solar Radii

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:23:42 -0800, "Douglas E. Berry"
<dberry@hooked.net> wrote:


>assuming the same rule holds true.. the thrusters would work out to =
about
>2000 planetary radii, you still have a serious problem.  Lets put an =
invader
>fleet around Saturn, using thrusters.  Saturn's radius is 35,500 miles,
>giving us a "thruster horizon" of 71 million miles.  The invader fleet =
is
>contained in a sphere of about 1.5x10^24 cubic miles, which compared to =
the
>area reachable from Jupiter (inside the Sun's t-horizon) is immense.
>(2.7x10^27 cu miles, if I'm using my calclator correctly.. 1.8 million =
times
>as large as Saturn.)

An invading fleet could consist of a mix of craft using various types
of drives. Something like this:
Heplar/Fusion rocket:
 - Escorts
 - Battle tenders
 - Dreadnaughts

Thrusters:
 - Interface/aerospace fighters
 - Battle riders
 - Drop shuttles

The composition would be determined by starsystem configuration, and
defending forces.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Myhre                 |"Never worry about theory as long as the=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf | machinery does what it's supposed to do."
Universal Internet          |
            Number: 127772  |                  -- R. A. Heinlein

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:44:56 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Jo Grant

> From:          "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
> To:            Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus%LOTUSINT@lotus.com
> Date:          Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:41:22 +0000
> Subject:       Jo Grant
> Priority:      normal

> I received this message from Jo Grant, but I'm having trouble 
> replying to him.
> 
> Jo, if you can hear me, send me another post.  The e-mail listed 
> below for you keeps coming back as user unknown.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kenneth.
> 
> 
> > From:          Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus%LOTUSINT@lotus.com
> > To:            traveller@mpgn.com
> > Cc:            dreamer@brokersys.com
> > Date:          Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:53:24 +0100
> > Subject:       Re: Traveller Movie? Not mine.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Kenneth Bearden writes:
> > >I'm a memeber of this screenwriting list and I stumbled across this
> > >today.  I have no idea if this is a real Traveller movie, or if it is
> > >just a movie called Traveller.
> > 
> > I have a Traveller movie screenplay in production at the moment but
> > the working title is not "Traveller". Is anyone else working on a
> > screenplay?
> > 
> > Jo
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:41:22 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re:  Some thoughts on QSDS

> It took me about 30 minutes for the first one and 20 to 30 for each one
> after that...and I did them while I was watching Babylon 5 and DS9 on the
> TV.  <g>

You can actually do something else besides stare in gross captivation 
while B5 is on?  

I'm just helpless when that show comes on.  There's no way I could do 
something like design a Traveller ship while I'm watching B5.  

If it can't be done during a commercial break, it just can't be done.

Hmm, Eris, it must have been a rerun.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 02:34:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Led Mirage <lmirage@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: TNE bashing

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Susan M. Shock wrote:

> >I'm sorry, but this annoys me.  Why is it that even with the coming of T4,
> >people still find it necessary to condemn TNE?  It bothers me.
> 
> Bravo, Paul. I too am tired of the TNE bashing. People don't realize that
> there are folks on here who get involved with Traveller in the first place
> because of TNE. Like it or not, TNE happened.
> 

Hear! Hear! While I first started RPGing with CT, with a wonderful
referee, I really get involved with Traveller after TNE.
 
> 1.) In terms of the rules systems, yes, TNE was not Traveller,although the
> GDW House system did use some elements of Traveller. It was the T:2000
> system and therefore was probably not the best choice for Traveller.

I don't know. I think the rules suited TNE. Is it Traveller? Arguable. But
I think it works well with the gritty feel of TNE.
 
> 2.) In terms of the BACKGROUND (and leaving aside the issue of the viability
> of Virus), it was every bit as Traveller as anything else that's been done.
> yes, there were flaws, such as Short Nap that was way too short. But I
> enjoyed (and still enjoy) the RC setting when it is run with the proper
> emphasis. I don't care for military settings anyway, which is why I don't
> give a rat's ass about ships above 5000 tons. I ran my RCES campaign as a
> Scout Service with teeth, which is what I think was originally intended anyway.

I think the background is wonderful. It allows a large variety of styles.
While, the mechanics of the propagation of Virus is kinda wonky, I can
cobble up enough bullshit to make it less wonky while maintaining the
essense of Virus.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 08:10:00 GMT 
From: j.kundert@genie.com
Subject: Re: Stellar Radii?

Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net> sez:

>Our sun has a radius of 432,000 miles.  So a thruster equipped verssel
>retains usefulness out to 864 million miles (9.29 AU), or almost to Saturn's
>orbit.  Beyond that, you need something else, like HEPLaR.
>
>This has some serious implications for naval combat.. all of a sudden, Terra
>has *one* useful Gas Giant to defend.  The others our out in the "badlands",
>where thruster equipped ships are helpless.
>
>--
>+-------------------------------------------------+
>|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
>


 This also has an interesting effect on jumpspace. The 100 diameter limit for
the Sun is, according to the above numbers, at 86.4 million miles (.929 AU).
Earth's orbital distance averages at 1.00 AU (this is the definition of the
AU, by the way).
  What this means in our system is that a ship can jump once it gets beyond
Earth's immediate gravity effect. What it means for the rest of the Imperium
is that the Primary's effect on Jumpspace is easily findable if you have a
table of Stellar Radii that defines Sol as 1.00.  The Stellar Radii multiplied by .929 then gets you the distance in AU to the Primary's 100 diameter limit.
Comparing this to the orbital distances chart will tell you if the mainworld
is under the primary's jump shadow or not, which in turn tells you something
about the shape of jump traffic in the system.
  If you are a lazy sort, or don't have a calculator handy, just use the
stellar radius straight (multiply it by 1.0 to get AU).
  Where do you get a table of Stellar Radii?  For those of you with a good
Classic Traveller library, one can be found in Book 6:Scouts on page 45. This
book also makes the above rounding simplification (on page 46), so the table
of Stellar Radii is useful without a calculator (well, you still might need
one for the interpolation of stellar class).


 Jim Kundert
 .sigless and not in Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:38:57 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: Ship Design systems

First off, i'd better say that i have never seen the ship design systems
that people are raving about so i can't pass comment on there relative
strength's or weakness's.

However it seems to me what you need is a Modular system, that has three
depth's to it.

Stage 1. Basic Design system.

This Designs the basic hull and body of the ship using bog standard
modules, such as Jump drive, Cabins, Sensor Arrays.
i.e Its 200t Freighter with Jump2, fifteen passenger approach.

Stage 2. a QSDS type system which designs the Modules
such as the sensor array has this feature and this widget.

then for the REAL techno freak gearheads

Stage 3. a long winded design the boards that make up the modules to tweak
the extra 0.000000001% efficiency out of the fresher type system. 

The idea being you go through the steps in a logical order starting with
the hull and moving on down and into the gubbins of how it works as far as
you want/require.

IF the existing design systems can be tweaked into this sort of
configuration, I have no idea.

This is my thoughts, the floor is now open.




Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:54:37 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Memory Alpha

I need (and can't locate at the moment) a copy of the Traveller short
tournament titled Memory Alpha. Does anyone have one?

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:35:16 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: SSDS weapon conversions

> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 00:33:10 -0500
> From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
> Subject: [Traveller Answer] Starship Weapons
> 
> Mused <marz@hotstar.net> asked:
<snipage>
> 
> > And, for that matter, how do you calculate the factor of multiple lasers?
> > the way it is worded, if I have 10 factor 2 lasers, I make a battery of
> > 20 damage (why bother with bays, and spinal mounts for that matter)
> 
> The instructions for converting multiple-weapon batteries into USD codes is
> wrong in _Starships_ (specifically, you get the problem noted above).  Here
> is the correct rule:
> 
> 1) Turret weapons can be grouped into batteries for increased fire-power.
>    Each battery may have up to 10 weapons, and MUST be controlled by a
>    Master Fire Director.
> 
<more snipage>
>    NOTE: All lasers in SSDS have a listed ROF.  Any laser can be used at
>    any ROF lower than the value listed (reduce the power input requirement
>    proportionally to the ROF reduction - for example, if you run a ROF
>    800 laser at ROF 400, it will use only half the power listed in the
>    table; all other values are unchanged).
>    Any laser with a ROF less than 100 may be used at up to ROF 100, by
>    providing more power.  Therefore, laser turrets with a listed ROF of 10
>    may be run at ROF 50 for 5 times the listed power consumption, and ROF
>    100 for 10 times the listed power consumption.
> 
> 
> Guy "wildstar" Garnett
> Traveller Answer Team
> 
> wildstar@qrc.com
Thanx Wildstar for pointing this out.  While I was preparing for my next
IRC lecture on SSDS, I discovered these facts on my own. I was
converting QSDS wepons to SSDS and vice versa.  I found that QSDS
military batteries have the number of wepons listed, a MFD and a
workstation.  The power discrepency bothered me untill I noticed the
ROF's in SSDS. I multi by 5 to get QSDS values and it worked.  Nice to
see my maths were correct! :)  Now I can take(practicaly) any FF&S
weapon and convert to T4.  I was going to submit this question, as
someone sugested, to the, what was it....GDW Beta list?  Anyway, looks
like you beat me to the punch.  Good show!
- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:48:39 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Simpler Design

Bruce,
1): It was me, not Thomas making that second post.
2): That was just an example of my FIRST design, I didn't say i 
wasn't beyond that now, i was just saying that that worked, too!

I was just making the point that there should be, as MM himself 
postulated, there should be multiple layers of complexity, the 
simplest being presented in the main rulebook. And up to now, what is 
really missing is a simple STEP-BY-STEP design system, that is 
plainly understandable the first time U use it.

I liked the MTdesign sequence for it's step-by step design, i 
disliked it for being not consequent enough and requiring a lot of 
extra work to make it go.
I disliked FFS for being way to complex and unhandy for a first time 
user and requiring too much work to get what you wanted.

Finally, I am not saying that my opinions are right for everyone, but 
I feel the need to voice them. Not all of us are "Gearheads" (which 
is not meant in any sense, demeaning), to us, the technical detail of 
Traveller is just second to the unlimited adventure and s.o.w. 
presented by it's rich background.  
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:53:30 +0900
From: Armand Suarez <suarez@on.rim.or.jp>
Subject: Re: Common Vilani names?

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

>>Speaking of Vilani, does anyone on the list know of Traveler linguistic
material that's been created?  Either canonically or privately?

Almost all the CT Alien Modules had charts for random generation of "words": 
 Vargr, Darrian, K'kree, Droyne, Aslan, and I think Zhodani (but I don't 
have that one :-( ).  The DGP MT Vilani & Vargr and Solomani & Aslan have 
this info too, I think (I need to check).  Maybe even Hiver & Ithklur has 
one for Ithklur (need to check this too).

Rob Prior (I think) has made a nice program (several in fact) for the Mac 
that will allow you to get letter frequencies from a sample list of words 
and create a chart like the ones in the Alien Modules, and he even has some 
samples from real-world languages.  I don't know the URL off the top of my 
head, but I think Rob is an active member of the TML, right?

There's another good program for DOS that has the same kind of charts in it 
for many Traveller languages called Trwords.exe, and I think you can add 
your own charts.  It's by Leroy Guatney of HIWG, and I think you can get it 
at http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~lwlguatn/index.html.

Still another is included as part of Dennis G. Landsem's MT GM Aid for 
Windows.  It may be available, but I don't remember the URL.  Ask 
dennis@lise.unit.no.

>>Is anyone *interested* in this subject?  I am -- in Vilani and/or Zhodani, 
at least. Traveler, with all its hard-science feel, is pretty soft on the
socio-cultural side of things -- we shouldn't let those lumpy-browed
Klingons get all the attention for having their own language <G>.

I am also interested in this subject.  After spending some time looking into 
the possibility of using the Traveller word generation chart system to try 
and make random English-sounding words just to test how well the charts 
simulate words in other non-English languages, I found out the following:

1) Traveller word generation charts attempt to represent sounds, not 
spelling.  You can confirm this by carefully reading the chart descriptions 
in the Alien Modules.  The authors either couldn't print phonetic symbols or 
didn't feel them to be necessary, but they are trying to spell things so 
that there is a 1 to 1 correspondence between sound and spelling.  Spanish 
almost does this, and Japanese does it if you are consistent in the method 
you use to transcribe it into the Roman alphabet, but languages with much 
spelling variation like English are far from showing a 1 to 1 sound to 
spelling correspondence.

2) Because of (1), you cannot expect good results with a computer program 
that analyzes word lists for letter frequencies unless 1) the language you 
are analyzing has a 1 to 1 spelling to sound correspondence or 2) you 
rewrite the entire word list so that there is a 1 to 1 correspondence or 3) 
you do everything with phonetic symbols (effectively same as 2).

3) I read that phonotactics (the branch of Chomskyan linguistics that tries 
to analyze phonological structures as generative grammar analyzes sentences) 
is not very successful.  When you use the Traveller word generation system, 
you are essentially using watered-down phonotactics.  The sounds are put 
into charts according to their frequency as vowels or consonants, and their 
frequency in the beginning, middle, or end of a syllable.  Types of 
syllables are also assigned frequencies (very hard data to find for 
English!).  Phonotactics fails because it does not consider the function of 
sounds - conveying meaning.  That requires you to consider morphemes - the 
smallest parts of words that have meaning (affixes and root words).

4)  Without morphemes, all you have are random strings of sounds 
(surprise!).  Not every possible sound combination in English sounds like 
English.  If you want to simulate a language, it might be better to create 
lists of morphemes using the Traveller word generation tables (to keep the 
sounds of the language), assign the morphemes meanings, and then use the 
morphemes to create meaningful words.

Sound time consuming?  It is.  But if you want to develop Vilani or Zhodani 
closer to the level of Klingon, you have to do it (and more - you'll need a 
grammar too).

Later,


Armand

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 06:27:50 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Traveller on IRC

Greetings!

The topic for Thursday, February 6, 1997 will be Traveller Play By 
Email.  The last time we covered this subject, we were also 
discussing Play By IRC and never really got around to the Email play. 

It is my hope that IG will give us a page to list Email games forming 
and in progress so that GM's and players can find each other.  If you 
have a game in progress, please email me the details such as the name 
of the game, the GM, the GM's email address, the system being used 
(CT,T4, etc), and whether the game is accepting new players or is 
full.

And, as always, I need *your* help in trying to come up with topics 
for our Thursday night sessions and people to help direct the 
discussion.  Please let me know if you have any ideas.  Please keep 
in mind tht helping to direct the discussion does not necessarily 
mean lecturing us, it might be as simple as being able to throw out 
thought provoking questions every once in a while to keep the 
discussion on topic and active.

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:07:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #898

> From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
> Subject: Simpler Ship Design Sequence
> 
> I fully agree with the post of Thomas Biskup. Traveller *is* in dire 
> need for a simpler design sequence that appeals to those gamers with 
> few time or short attention.
> How do you americans put it: The right to choose! 
> We should be able, like in the olden days, to choose a level of 
> complexity which suits us best, and right now, a simpler system is 
> missing. Those systems (attn: Radical thought) don't even have to be 
> fully compatible, since once a GM chooses a sstem, he will most 
> likely stick with it, and having a balanced game.
> 
> My first ever ship design was something like this: 
> "So there's this freight carrier, see? I has a laser and can make a 
> Jump two and is pretty slow in combat. It can carry about 100t of 
> cargoe and 15 passengers including crew!"
> That was all the information the players needed at first, and on this 
> basis, i was free to expand upon later on.
> A ship doesn't have to be complex, it just is supposed to be fun.Just my 2 EuroCents,

Well, while I agree that this is fine and if you want to use it in your
campaign, go ahead, I don't think it makes a good standard system rule.

First of all, a ship design system allows us to determine what's a valid
ship. Without a ship design system, we coud just say "Yeah, it's a 100 Td
scout, with Jump-, um... 4 and, ah... 60 Td of cargo space, with 12 staterooms.
Yeah. That's it." I don't think that this kind of 'the referee will 
determine the subsequent ship design' is particularly useful.

Second, it gives players from different campaigns the ability of design
ships using a standard set of assumptions, so Ship A from my campaign
can can be used in your campaign without having to worry about
whether or not I'm a goof when it comes to designing ships.

Finally, as I seem to recall from 'The Traveller Book', Traveller is and
always has been a game that can be played in a group or alone. Alone?
How? World design, vehicle design, ship design, rolling up and detailing
NPCs are all the kind of things that can be a lot of fun and can be done
even if your group isn't around. I think from that point of view, systems
like SSDS are really cool because I'm trying to find both the time and
some people to get a Trav game running, but until then, I can still
play around and design ships and such.

I think compared to the old CT basic ship design system, QSDS is about
equal in terms of simplicity. SSDS is good for more detailed ships of
moderate size, but I don't know if I'd use SSDS for that 50,000 Td 
dreadnaught (I know there aren't any 50,000 Td hulls listed, but you could
extrapolate one).

To sum up, my thoughts on ship design are very Vilani in nature - take the
existing QSDS system and polish it until it shines so bright you can't
stand to look at it. All the pieces are there, what the system needs is
typesetting, good layout and some good examples so that people don't
think it's complex because it ISN'T!

As far as the right to choose, you'll have QSDS, SSDS and (soneday) FF&S/NAH
which will all be more-or-less compatiable, which I think is a pretty good
set of choices.

Ethan

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #900
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 31 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 901



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  Some thoughts on QSDS
Re: Usenet flame-o-rama
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #898
RE: Science Fiction Alien Module
Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"
MT Products
OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)
Re: G or Not G
Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"
Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: (no subject)
Re: Some thoughts on RPG design (long)
Re: [T97#887] Re: Reading Matter
Re: Memory Alpha
Re: T4 Deluxe Edition
Traveller TNE??
Re: Fleet & Melee
[Traveller Answer] Stellar Radii

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:19:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re:  Some thoughts on QSDS

Hi.

> From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)

>> Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de> wrote:
>>> What I'm asking for is a ship design system that is a *lot* simpler than
>>> QSDS (and SSDS especially).

>> OK, I'll ask:

>> Simpler HOW?

Two words: "High Guard".

> Good question!  QSDS *is* a simple system. 

[snip]

> It took me about 30 minutes for the first one and 20 to 30 for each one
> after that...and I did them while I was watching Babylon 5 and DS9 on the
> TV.  <g>

It took me 10 minutes to design my first High Guard ship (If you don't
count the 30 minutes it took me to read the rules). After that it took
me about 5 minutes per ship. In my heyday, I could knock off a design in
1 minute if I skipped tallying the price and USP (and, as a ref, I could
always make the buyers tally the price for me, and make the belligerents
lookup the USP values).

Traveller is a /game/, it shouldn't have /chores/. HG ship design simply
was never a chore for me.

- -Rob, the High Guard guy.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:22:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: Usenet flame-o-rama

> From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
> Subject: Re: The Demise of T4
> 
> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> > As the other half of the Richter-Berry flame war, let me say that I've never
> > seen a more unreasonable person.  He seems to think that because something
> > doesn't work the way he wants it too, it's a broken mechanism.  When you
> > quot e the rules to him, he insults you.  Amazing. 
> 
> I *hate* to get into this but it's been annoying me for some time.  I'm
> sorry to say that I have to support Michael T. Richter as far as his
> complaints go (yes, he could be a lot more polite but others started
> yelling, too): he basically (if you get past all the flame stuff)
> complainging about several broken T4 mechanics and he is *right* about
> that.  He basically states that they are broken *as presented* in the
> rules and he's right about this.  You up to now (from what I have read)
> only stated that the GM can fix it and you are *right* about that.

Well, I don't hate to get into this because some of Richter's complaints
are valid, some aren't and he has a very antagonistic style which gets me
riled up too, but I've seen the blood (so to speak) so I'll just stay out.

The 3 things MTR has brought up (to my knowledge are):

1) T4's task system makes 'Impossible' tasks too easy.
2) T4's character generation system makes it easy to min-max.
   (Specifically, being able to get a duke or somesuch in 1 term)
3) T4's combat system is unrealistic.

To which my responses are:

1) Yep. 'Impossible' tasks are too easy. I'd use a slightly modified system.
2) So what? If a player really wants a Duke, go ahead. It's a random
   system, stupid stuff will happen. I just plain don't care about this.
3) If I wanted ultra-realistic combat, I'd play another game. I want
   a certain sci-fi backdrop, so I play Traveller. I want characters to
   be reasonably afraid of gumplay, but I don't want to kill them off
   like Call of Chthulu (sp?) characters.

IMO, Richter has one valid criticism of T4, aside from all the other 
ones we've heard here over and over again - bad layout, missing tables,
art, etc, etc, etc. Which aren't criticisms of the game mechanics but
complaints about product quality, which are a separate category.

> Nonetheless you failed to address all his objective complaints.

I think Doug has given some reasonable responses, but has gotten 
sucked into the Usenet Flame Machine(tm), which I don't approve of,
but can forgive him for, as it will happen to everyone who reads Usenet
sooner or later. Thankfully on TML, mass Traveller love-ins are the order
of the day and no one gets their nose out of joint, except maybe Phil.

> Since I'd like to prevent the TML from becoming yet another battleground
> I'd propose to continue all further discussion about this via email.

Well, if it's criticisms about Traveller, please continue the discussion
here. If it's about forcing people to take two Valiums and wait an hour
before posting to Usenet, by all means, take it to email.

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:18:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: O Wise and Bearded One <aa4mwi@zen.sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #898

> 
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:23:23 -0500
> From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
> Subject: Re: There's gold in that there infrastructure
> 
> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> >
> >Of course, there are flies in the ointment -- and adventure hooks, of
> >course.  [snippage]
> >Soon, you'll have a civil war and the PCs will be caught in the middle,
> >scrambling for
> >their sidearms and trying to protect the local spouses that they've been
> >shacking up
> >with from the mob.  Hmm ... I'm getting to like Milieu 0 more and more.
> >
> >- --Glenn
> 
>         You see what I was driving at then :).  Seriously, though, this
> sort of project doesn't seem to be causing massive civil unrest everywhere
> in Asia, but hey; if it makes good sense and good fun to have something go
> really bad, way to go!  Have your PC's dodge fusion+-powered earthmoving
> equipment driven by disgruntled union organizers and so forth...
You reckon, what about in Indonesia there are a lot of very angry 
tribespeople out there who are quite annoyed at their forrests and landf 
being destroyed to build roads etc. Of course the road is alsp so the 
nice government can move troops around quicker to protect the populace.
Or for an example closer to home how about the Zapatistas in Mexico. 
A good adventure seed would be for the government to act all nice and 
fluffy when the off worlders are around to get the aid and be bastards 
when the PC's backs are turned. What happens when the PC's find out/get 
kidnapped by the rebels etc.

*** "I wonder if you can refuse to inherit the Earth?"          ***
***                                          Calvin and Hobbes  ***
*** Mark James Wilkin                                           ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:05:59 -0800
From: Jeff Cornish <jcornish@appiantech.com>
Subject: RE: Science Fiction Alien Module

Armand Suarez[SMTP:suarez@on.rim.or.jp] wrote:
> With all this recommending of science fiction going on, I thought I might 
> try to find out if anyone knows the title to a science fiction book I once 
> had and soon lost (never loan books you like out to irresponsible 
> friends...).
> 
> The book reads like a Traveller alien module.  It starts off by detailing 
> the formation of a double planet, describes the evolution of the sentient 
> lifeforms on both worlds, their rise to civilization, and eventually to the 
> point where they notice each other and make contact.  It isn't really a 
> story with characters, but it is fascinating.  The book I had was typical 
> paperback size and I had it around 1983 - 85.  Do any of our resident 
> science fiction gurus know what the title or author was?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Armand
> 

This sounds like a classic Dr. Forward novel <grin>  He has a series of
which 'Roche World' is one.  Basically humans go to Alpha Centauri  and
find a very strange star system with some rather implausible worlds, on
of which is a contact binary planet system (you heard me
right--darnedest thing I ever saw)

Jeffrey

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:38:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"

In mail you write:

> Convoys were actually a viable consideration in BL but not in the more
> abstract combat systems. I could have sworn Spain used convoys for
> protection from pirates along the Spanish Main. Or was it just for the
> trips back to the home country?

On the trips *to* the New World there wasn't anything on the ships
worth stealing. They did tend to stay together simply because the
Spanish weren't exactly the greatest navigators in the world.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:28:05 -0500
From: sturm <sturm@tiac.net>
Subject: MT Products

- ------------37AD3460614C1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I was reading my copy of COACC last night and saw 2 products advertised
in the back, Flashback (an adventure) and Robots (Supplement).  Does
anyone know if these products were every released?

sturm@tiac.net


- ------------37AD3460614C1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<HTML><BODY>

<DT>I was reading my copy of COACC last night and saw 2 products advertised
in the back, Flashback (an adventure) and Robots (Supplement).&nbsp; Does
anyone know if these products were every released?</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>sturm@tiac.net</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------------37AD3460614C1--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:39:11 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)

At 01:41 AM 1/31/97 +0000, Kenneth wrote:
>
>> It took me about 30 minutes for the first one and 20 to 30 for each one
>> after that...and I did them while I was watching Babylon 5 and DS9 on the
>> TV.  <g>
>
>You can actually do something else besides stare in gross captivation 
>while B5 is on? 

Well, I can repeatedly call the Centauri Emperor "Lucan" by mistake (Re: the
1/30 episode:  My man Vir!) 

>I'm just helpless when that show comes on.  There's no way I could do 
>something like design a Traveller ship while I'm watching B5.  

It does get my vote for the best SF series in history.  Second place to Star
Cops.  Third to Dr. Who.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:14:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: G or Not G

In mail you write:

> Higher G's are experienced when you suffer any acceleration than that due 
> to gravity, such as the 'pressing into the seat' you experience after 
> stepping on the gas in your Ferrari and before an irritated policeman 
> pulls you over.  The discussions about G-forces during space combat 
> primarily have to do with how much additional acceleration (above 1-G) 
> that human crews can take over time without suffering ill effects, or 
> with the G-forces that starships can take without suffering structural 
> damage.
>
> For reference, the human body can take nine positive (downward) G's for 
> short periods of time (seconds) provided that the proper conditions are 
> met (a pilot in good shape with strong leg muscles wearing a flight suit 
> designed to prevent blood pooling) but only two to three negative 
> (upward) G's under the same conditions.

A few minor corrections. Since only *thrust* forces affect the pilot of
a space fighter (unlike airplanes where aerodynamic forces dominate),
the g forces will be *tranverse* (front to back). 

Tolerances for tranverse Gs are *much* higher. The Saturn V subjected
the astronauts to 9.5 transverse Gs. Tests in the 50s using rocket
sleds subjected test subjects to brief periods of 40 to 80 Gs. 40 Gs
(for a few seconds) resulted in nothing more than than some bruising.
80 Gs resulted in injuries, but wasn't lethal.

One interesting fact discovered during the tests (which started as part
of the program to design ejection seats) was that the rate of change of
acceleration (called "surge") was important. Keeping surge low made
high accelerations more survivable.

The person in charge of the research was a Col. Stapp (USAF). I know
there was a published report giving the limits for not only
acceleration but also for things like high and low temp and pressure.
If anybody locates a source, please let the list know. I suspect it'd
be *very* useful, not only for answering our questions about fighter
acceleration, but also all those nagging little problems about what
happens if players get subjected to environmental extremes. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:08:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"

In mail you write:

> During the steam period, most things on a ship could be patched well enough
> to keep the ship going until it got to a port, and most *non-structural*
> damage could be repaired in most any port if the ship's Engineer could
> scrounge up the parts.  Certainly, 100 meter rips in the hull or massive
> explosions in the boiler room could sink a ship outright, but bilge pumps
> could handle a pretty big hole and keep a ship afloat as long as the
> engines kept running, and boilers could be patched and gotten back online
> even after pretty heavy damage.  Pipes could be repaired.  Wiring restrung. 
> A ship didn't *have* to have a radio.  Major structural damage required a
> dry dock and that's where a ship yard came into play.  I suspect it's the
> equivalent of a dry dock that separates the B's from the C's and D's, but
> port classifications are just a game artifact after all.

Not quite true. Damage to the *engines* or propshaft could be a real
problem. Crack a cylinder or break a piston and you've got some real
problems unless the port has shops capable of repairing them. 

> Leonard posted sometime back on ideas for robust electronics
> equipment using some sort of hot tube technology, so even *that*
> might not be too fragile.

I've also designed (in my head) some *long* life electronics for a
generation ship, based on trying to figure out a realistic way of
implementing controls equivalent to the ones Heinlein had on the ship
in "Orphans of the Sky".

It's possible to build long life semiconductors by using *large*
junctions and good grounding procedures. And there are ways of creating
controls that are activated by touch (capacitance switches, like the
ones in elevators). Since the "switch" has no moving parts, you get
long life. 

For adjustment type controls (as in replacements for potentiometers), I
came up with a design like this. Feel free to use it as "alien"
technology. :-)

           +---------+   +---------+   +---------+
           | select  |   |  range  |   | select  |
           | highest |   |increase |   | highest |
           |  range  |   |         |   |  value  |
           +---------+   +---------+   +---------+
                         
           +---------+   +---------+   +---------+
           |  value  |   | display |   |  value  |
           |decrease |   |   or    |   |increase |
           |         |   | readout |   |         |
           +---------+   +---------+   +---------+
                         
           +---------+   +---------+   +---------+
           | select  |   |         |   | select  |
           | lowest  |   |  range  |   | lowest  |
           |  value  |   |decrease |   |  range  |
           +---------+   +---------+   +---------+
                         

So for example, if you want to increase power you'd hit the square on
the right. To decrease power you'd hit the button on the left. Im you
wanted to adjust the "granularity" of the adjustments (ie change from
Megawatts to Kilowatts) you'd hit range increase/decrease the proper
number of times (or just hold it down until it got close). The four
select buttons should be obvious.

I put the high/low *value* squares as far as possible apart, that's why
they are diagonally opposite. Low value got placed there by looking at
"decrease range" and "decrease value". Obviously to decrease *both* (to
the limit) you pick the square between them. :-)

Highest value got picked the same way. The other two went in what's
left.
              
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:59:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@eskimo.com>
Subject: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)

Tony Z

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:12:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: (no subject)

In mail you write:

> When a ship exits from jumpspace is there any information
> obtainable from the energy discharge it makes? ie when a 
> (for instance) Patroling ship insystem detects the energy
> discharge can they determine 
> -the size of the ship
> -what direction it jumped in from
> -how far it jumped
> also what info if any can be determined when a ship jumps out

The laws of physics say that there's going to be a definite gravity
wave generated by a ship jumping in *or* out. And the strength will
depend on the mass. Of course, that doesn't tell you how far away the
ship is, just the direction. So just like anything else you need a
distance to get the mass (or observations from two different
locations).

So that much should be true *regardless* of what the rules may say.

But that won't tell you how far the ship jumped, or from what
direction. Some sources say that there's an energy discharge associated
with jump entry/exit. But people disagree about what info about the
jump you can get from this.

If you feel (as I do) that momentum is conserved when jumping, the
ship's velocity at entry exit will *suggest* some possible
source/destination points if you look up the relative velocity of the
stars within jump range. 

But basicly, it's up to the ref.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:03:08 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on RPG design (long)

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
>         Well, count me in as someone who likes SSDS.  I've also been
> mucking around with FF&S, and like that too.  I think that the complexities
> in the design system translate into interesting quirks in the end product
> that enhance the roleplaying.

That's why I would like the right to choose :-)  A simple design system is
what I currently need (due to lack of time).  I believe that with more
practice and more time I'd also be interested in the more complex versions
but for now that's simply too much (especially for my basic needs -- I
would like to create some ships with the basic data, so that my players
could use it... I don't want to get messed up in endless details I right
now *don't* want).

>         And with regard to T4, if anything I find that the combat system
> could do with some extra complexity.  Recoil ratings would be nice for one;
> with the standard weapons, this is probably not needed, but when you start
> mucking about with autoshotguns, they'd sure make the game a little more
> interesting.  Also, better rules on autofire; I've already done a house fix
> on the autofire rules for an RF gauss SMG one player is packing: 5 rounds
> per burst struck me as way low, so I doubled that and the damage multiplier
> too.  And a hit location table like the wonderful one Glenn Grant did would
> help, too.

No question.  I really would agree with this.  It would be nice to have a
separate supplement for this, too.  I always liked the way Shadowrun did
it: you get all the required basic stuff in the basic rules and then can
add the Rigger Black Book if you want detailed combat rules for vehicles,
you can add the Grimoire if you want an extended magic system with a lot
more detail, you can add the various cyber supplements if you want more of
that, etc.  What Traveller should be doing differently is, that the
adventures and setting material should not necessarily depend on those
supplements (which is sometimes a little annoying in Shadowrun).

This would make for a really flexible, scalable RPG system, something I
yet have to see to this extent.  Maybe the folks at IG can do it...

>         Other than that, good post.  I think that a Really Simple Ship
> Design Sequence, so long as it retained consistency with SSDS and QSDS,
> would be a really good thing to have.

Consistency is necessary although I'd really by willing to live with minor
inconsistencies (e.g. junk all the fractions and generally get more
intuitive numbers).  If the details are slightly wrong this is not too
much of a problem (players and GMs interested in a simple system won't
care if the fuel consumption is off a little bit while the others could
use the more detailed systems with more "edge").  The stats for ships
still could be derived from the detailed systems (maybe each ship going
with a small box giving a short summary of the stats for the basic
system). 

Ciao,

				Thomas.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:54:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [T97#887] Re: Reading Matter

In mail you write:

> T::>Spider Robinson's "Callahan's Place" stories.  Great fun, and your bar
>  ::>encounters will never be the same.
>
>  YES!  And that includes the two (three?) Lady Sally's books
>  he's done.  A Social Club and Escort Service is a great place
>  to meet, as well...

Even the collection of quotes, puns, jokes, etc from the series ("Off
The Wall at Callahan's") is good to have. Especially for the Phil
Foglio illos.

> T::>"Flandry" series, -Poul Anderson.  Multiple stories of the 
> ever-resourceful
>  ::>agent of the Terran Empire.

Don't forget that the Polesotechnic(sp) League stories are set in the
same universe as Flandry, only a few centuries earlier. They are great
source material. So are the few stories set *after* the Flandry stories
(the only one I can think of at the moment is "Starfog")

*Any* of Anderson's SF is worth having. And a remarkable amount of the
older stuff works well for Traveller ideas. 

BTW, he gave A.Bertam Chandler permission to "borrow" Flandry for a
crossover with Chandler's Rim Worlds stories. And those stories are
worth reading too, even if some of them depend on oddities of the
several different star drives used in that universe.

> T::>"Retief" series, -Keith Laumer.  some of the best, funniest SF ever.
>
>  My only complaint about this is that he has a bad habit of
>  recycling stories - you'll have only about three books worth of
>  stories in a collection of five.  N.B. I work for a bureaucracy
>  (City of New York - Police Department) - Laumer does _not_
>  exaggerate the stupidity of bureaucracies.  Neither did the
>  British comedy "Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister".

Laumer comes by his knowledge of such things from *personal*
experience. He used to be in the US Consular Corps! There's a photo of
him in a CDT outfit in an old Analog. If I stumble across it, I'll have
to scan it in. :-)

James H. Schmitz wrote a lot of good stuff. Most of it set in "The Hub"
a group of worlds set somewhere in the galaxy. Many deal *heavily* with
Psi. 

"The Witches of Karres" is a *classic*, and it begs for a sequel. But
the manuscript he'd started got lost during a move in the 60s and he
never recreated it. Arrgghh!

Oh yes, a paperback published a few years back bears looking at for you
RC types (and the rest of us). It's "Unwillingly to Earth" by Pauline
Ashwell. It's a collection of stories she wrote in the 50s and 60's.
They deal with a girl who is being trained in "Cultural Engineering".
Yep! Hiver manipulation ideas! The last story has some good ideas for
how the Scout Service might handle recontact with a world that has a
couple of superpowers about to blow each other up. Another has a
colonization effort gone wrong and should be mandatory reading for refs
dealing with the colonization of "perfect" worlds. :-)

Oh yeah, if you get past the sex, Elf Sternberg's Pendor stories
(available on his web page at www.halcyon.com) have some neat ideas.
One of the most recent has to do with the discovery of aliens in cold
sleep for centuries after their world blew itself to hell in a nuclear
war. 

Pendor would be a fun place to drop in a *high* tech Traveller game but
you'd need Elf's permission, and the tech is probably in the 20s for
some things. Hmmm. Maybe not. I just remembered that they *can't* build
Ringworlds anymore. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:31:18 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Memory Alpha

Marc,

Hi. Yes, I have a copy. Let me know the address, and I'll post photocopies.

Ad Astra,
Paul

At 05:54 AM 1/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I need (and can't locate at the moment) a copy of the Traveller short
>tournament titled Memory Alpha. Does anyone have one?
>
>Marc Miller
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:59:56 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: T4 Deluxe Edition

Big OOPS!  My last email was supposed to go to IG, not the list!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:31:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: Traveller TNE??

Greeting,

I've read on the list the past few days that there are some people that
don't like ttne.  Since I'm new to the list I've missed the past discusions
on this, and don't understand the references to the poorness of the game.  

I myself am new to traveller and only play ttne.  I love it, and the group I
play with never fails to be ammusing.  It's the most I've had since my first
D&D game way back when, and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.  

Just wondering if some of you gurus out there could fill me in, on why it is
thought to be lacking and what it is lacking in.  Just the ups and down of
it ocmpared to other Travellers.  Not trying to start any flames, just
trying to round myself out.  

Thanks or appologies in advance.

Jeff Brawley

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:03:45 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fleet & Melee

In a message dated 1/31/97 6:10:47 AM, you wrote:

>> Actually, I have a weapon that will beup on my weapons page (coming the
next
>> day or two) that is a shaped charge with a sensor that only detonates
>> against soft targets

Ok but what about all those borders in hard armor???

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 17:52:46 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Stellar Radii

Douglas E. Berry asked:
> What is a solar radii? Is this refering to the radius of the sun
> or the radius of the solar system? SSDS refer's to this when talking
> about Thruster Plates.

It should probably be "stellar radii" (the radius of a star; "solar radii"
means the radius of the Sun).  No matter what you call it, it's referring to
the useful distance for thruster plates.

Thruster plates are gravitic technology, and require a gravity field to
"push against" (that's a poor analogy, but it works for our purposes).  As a
rule of thumb, the gravity field is strong enough out to about 1000
diameters (2000 radii, since radius is half of diameter).

Ususally the central star is the biggest object around; anywhere within 2000
radii of the system's star, the thrust plate drives will work.  They'll also
work within 1000 diameters of anything else, but for interplanetary travel
amoung the outer planets of a system, thrust-plates are pretty useless.


Dave Strebe asked:
> So then what is the limit in AU's or Light Seconds of thruster plates?
> 2000 solar radii=?

Here's some tables to help you out:

This first table lists the diameter of a star (in light-seconds) by the
star's spectral class and luminosity.  For example, Sol (our Sun) is a 
a main-sequence (Luminosity class V) G-type star.  The diameter of a G5 V
star is 4.2 light-seconds; the thrust-plate limit is 4200 light-seconds.

Stellar Diameters in Light-Seconds
Spect	Luminosity
Class	Ia        Ib        II        III       IV        V         VI
B0        243       140       103       75        61        47        --
B5        350       163        93       47        25        21        --
A0        630       233        84       29        21        15        --
A5        696       257        65       21        13         8.4      --
F0        813       276        75       22        13         7.9      --
F5        953       280        84       24        12         6.3       5.3
G0       1392       392       117       33        12         4.8       4.8
G5       2120       598       173       51        13         4.2       2.6
K0       3054      1009       252       75        15         4.2       1.9
K5       4716      1831       579      196        --         2.6       1.4
M0       6837      4002      1107      294        --         2.6       1.2
M5      14103      9680      3325     1065        --         1.7       0.49
M9      16339     13430      4346     1681        --         0.94      0.25

Dwarf Stars
DB          0.084
DA          0.079
DF          0.061
DG          0.056
DK          0.042
DM          0.028

The limit for thrust plate drives is 1000 diameters (2000 radii).  Multiply
these values by 1000 to determine the distance in light-seconds.  If you
want to convert to AU, divide by 500 (500 light-seconds is 1 AU).

Here are the "standard" orbits, in AU, millions of kilometers, and
light-seconds.  To use this table, look up the limit value in light seconds,
to find the orbit numbers that are inside and outside the limit.  For
example, Sol's limit is 4200 light-seconds.  This falls between orbits 6 and
7; therefore, in our solar system Jupiter is inside the limit, and Saturn is
outside it.

Orbital Radii in Light-Seconds
Orbit   AUs          MKm          L-S
 0          0.2           29.9          99.7
 1          0.4           59.8         199
 2          0.7          104.7         349
 3          1.0          149.6         499
 4          1.6          239.3         798
 5          2.8          418.9        1397
 6          5.2          777.9        2595
 7         10.0         1495.9        4990
 8         19.6         2932          9780
 9         38.8         5804         19360
10         77.2        11548         38520
11        154.0        23038         76846
12        307.6        46016        153493
13        614.8        91972        306786
14       1229.2       183885        613374
15       2458.0       367711       1226552
16       4915.6       735363       2452907
17       9830.8      1470666       4905613
18      19661.2      2941274       9811033
19      39322.0      5882488      19621865


Planets

The limit also applies to planets, so it is sometimes useful to know what it
is.  I've pre-computed the limit, in light-seconds, for each size world.

World Size and Distance Table
Size    Diameter (Km)   Avg Diameter   T/P Limit
Code    Min     Max     Km      L-S    Light-Sec
R           0      <1       0   0.0       0.0
0           1     199     100   0.0       0.3
S         200     799     400   0.0       1.3
1         800    2399    1600   0.0       5.0
2        2400    3999    3200   0.01     11.0
3        4000    5599    4800   0.02     16.0
4        5600    7199    6400   0.02     21.0
5        7200    8799    8000   0.03     27.0
6        8800   10399    9600   0.03     32.0
7       10400   11999   11200   0.04     37.0
8       12000   13599   12800   0.04     43.0
9       13600   15199   14400   0.05     48.0
A       15200   16799   16000   0.05     53.0
SGG     20000   59999   40000   0.13    133.0
LGG     60000  119999   90000   0.30    300.0

Note: The average sizes given for small and large gas giants may vary slightly
from that assumed by the Traveller rulebook.  The averages above are the
middle of the size range, and are generally larger than corresponding worlds
in Earth's solar system.

starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf) observed:
> As the thruster plates push against a gravity well, it would imply
> that the thrusters also would work outside the stellar radii limit,
> but close to a planet.

Right.  1000 diameters will do as a rule of thumb.

Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #901
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 31 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 902



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Gearhead needs help:(
Re: Book list
Re: Traveller Music
Re: [T97#895] Book list
Re: [T97#896] Languages
Re: [T97#895] More books
Re: [T97#896] List Activity/Demise of Traveller
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Usenet flame-o-rama
Re: G or not G update
Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)
QSDS Example
Re: Traveller TNE??
Re: MT Products
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: G or not G update
Re: Aperture Synthesis, Aegis
Re: Traveller Music

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:26:44 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Gearhead needs help:(

	I now I can get most of this for archives but is ther one place were I can
find  all the conversion notes for FF&S to T4 ( Armor,damage etc)
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:37:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: Book list

In a message dated 97-01-29 07:58:33 EST, you write:

>Arthur C. Clarke's "The Songs of Distant Earth" as well as the 2001
>  trilogy.

3001 due sometime this month!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:37:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Music

Pete forgot to mention Vivaldi- Furious cello makes for fast combat, and if
anyone had it in for cello players, it was the big V.
dsf
pete-How much of the cargo hold wold we lose if we put in a pool table?
s

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 18:29:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#895] Book list

j.kundert@genie.com hath scriven...

T::>I've done this a few times before, but I can't promise any consistancy...

T::>Traveller Reads, er.. Traveller Related Reading (sorry, my Cerebus habit
 ::>is showing):

T::> -Anne McCaffrey's Dinosaur Planet cycle, including "Death of Sleep",
 ::>  "Sassinak," "Dinosaur Planet," "Dinosaur Planet Survivors," and "The
 ::>  Planet Pirates".  Also read the Crystal Singer books and the Ship Who
 ::>  Sang cycle.

 I'd also be inclined to include the expanded Pern series here -
 even though there's no real _interstellar_ background, Pern
 itself, and the society that developed thereon, is, IMO,
 _top-notch_ grist for the Traveller adventurer - Even dragonkin
 doesn't break Traveller (much); these are psionically active
 animals (Telepathy and Teleportation) that become sentient or
 marginally below when in psichosymbiosis [sic] with a human
 being.  The only problem with their abilities (which are key to
 the _stories_, not the background) is their ability to teleport
 through time as well as space; one can easily ignore (or
 "unuse") this in a Traveller campaign taking place on Pern.

T::> -Greg Bear's Eon trilogy, "Eon," "Eternity," and "Legacy."  Legacy is
 ::>  the most Travelleresque of these, but they are all worth the read.

 Definitely.  Less Travelleresque in some respects, but
 certainly also worth the read, would be Orson Scott Card's
 Ender Wiggen tetralogy - _Ender's_Game_, _Speaker_for_the_Dead_,
 _Xenocide_, and _Children_of_the_Mind_.

T::> -Robert Heinlein's too-numerous-to-mention library of books.

 Seconded, especially the Future History stuff - which, now that
 I think of it, was probably the lion's share of what he
 wrote...

T::> -Joe Haldeman's "Forever War."

 Seconded.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Printer paper is always strongest at the perforation.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 18:29:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#896] Languages

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU> hath scriven...

T::>Oh, boy, here we go again...I just came up with a heretical canon-breaking
 ::>idea...

T::>Galanglic is allegedly the Lingua Franca of the third imperium. But, if
 ::>Vilani (the language of the first imperium) was tonal in nature, shouldn't
 ::>tonal-language speakers from terra have been the quickest to pick up
 ::>Vilani? In other words, shouldn't Galanglic be more appropriately called
 ::>Gal-Mandarin-ic? After all, that is (IIRC) the most commonly spoken
 ::>language on the planet, for all that English is the 'common' language
 ::>today.

 You've missed a couple of things -

 First, English is the most common _interlanguage_ today (there
 are still more speakers of Chinese (any dialect), and possibly
 Spanish (though if not, it's a close third)), and is the
 language of international communication (including air traffic
 control, universally, and diplomacy - if the German and Russian
 foreign ministers meet, and neither knows the other's language,
 they'll transact business in English).  It's also the most
 commonly used language in the United Nations, which in the
 Traveller canon eventually evolved into the Terran Federation
 and the Rule of Man, and indirectly into the government of the
 Solomani Confederation as well.

 Second, Terra was never part of the \Ziru Sirka\; Vilani was
 the language of "the enemy", and hence not likely to have been
 widely studied - and since it was the language of a _defeated_
 enemy, it was incumbent on the losers to learn the winner's
 language.  Had the Vilani beaten the Terran Federation instead
 of the other way around, it's quite likely that your scenario
 would have come to pass to a certain extent - i.e., the
 Mandarin speakers would have been at a potential advantage to
 learn the conqueror's tongue, and to influence it.

 I wrote a RICE paper on pretty much this topic; it gives my
 viewpoint on it - but I also explicitly note that Emperor
 Hiroshi's/Admiral Estigarriba's Anglic would have been no more
 recognizable to our ears than our English would have been to
 an English king of the ninth or tenth century AD, and the
 Galanglic of the Third Imperium probably would have been
 equally unrecognizable to Estigarriba/Hiroshi.

 Languages _do_ evolve over time, absorbing vocabulary and
 influences from other languages that it comes in contact with.
 A dominant language will be changed less than a subordinate
 language; the conqueror's language changes less than the
 conquered's. Shakespeare's English had been a conquered tongue;
 it absorbed many changes from Norman French. Louis XVI's French
 was not as different from ninth century Norman French as
 Shakespeare's English was from ninth century English; French
 was a conqueror's tongue; it absorbed few changes from any of
 its neighbors.  Your English and mine was a conqueror's tongue;
 it absorbed no more than some vocabulary from the Native Tribal
 tongues, or from the languages that immigrants have brought
 with them. Cleon's Galanglic (a conqueror's tongue) will have
 been affected by long contact with Vilani, and will have
 absorbed some Vilani (and possibly some Vargr) vocabulary and
 usages - but "street Vilani" or "star Vilani" (a conquered
 tongue) will probably have absorbed more Galanglic, possibly
 shedding _some_ of its tonality by the time of the
 Proclamation, and certainly incorporating some Vilanicizations
 of Galanglic words (As Japanese has done today - go see a
 "besuboru" game and then stop off at "Makadonado" on the way
 home, for example).

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Raise your IQ - eat gifted children.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 18:29:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#895] More books

A lost name hath scriven....

T::>Forgot to mention my all time favorite authors:

T::>E.E. "Doc" Smith - Lensman series, D'Alembert series

 Never read the D'Alemberts; loved the Lensmen.

T::>Gordon R. Dickson - Dorsai Series, Child Cycle

 One and the same - and excellent reads.

CMcknight@aol.com writes...

T::>I always got a laugh and more than a few ideas from:

T::>Harry Harrison - The Stainless Steel Rat series, The Deathworld Trilogy

 Yes, I enjoyed these, thoroughly.  The three "deathworlds" that
 were visited always struck me as being interesting
 possibilities for stranding a party on...

T::>Keith Laumer   - The Retief of the CDT series

 These, too, with the caveat comment I made earlier in this
 thread.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Your house needs update 7.0. Send us the original + $75K.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 18:29:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#896] List Activity/Demise of Traveller

Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com> hath scriven...

T::>> From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
 ::>> Subject: List Activity
 ::>>
 ::>> Just as a bit of trivia that would seem to indicate how much
 ::>> interest there is in Traveller, especially since T4 came out...
 ::>>
 ::>> When GDW collapsed, about a year ago, the list usage wasn't
 ::>> significantly different (and I'm including XBoat traffic in
 ::>> that).

T::>Hm, although my memory isn't a very reliable source, I'd say
 ::>that it was about 1 TML/1 Xboat digest a day, or so.

 Yep, that was about it - and the size was such that I'd fill a
 floppy about once a month.  They weren't anywhere near as large
 as today's multiple digests...

T::>> Since the announcement and release of T4, the list has been
 ::>> averaging four to five times the volume of what it had been
 ::>> prior to the collapse of GDW - I'm averaging one megabyte to one
 ::>> and one half megabytes per week.

T::>Yes, I usually get about 3 or 4 digests each morning - it takes
 ::>me quite a while to wade through it all!

 I wade through them at night, but you've got the right idea!

T::>> In addition to that, I'm seeing discussion (not a lot, but it's
 ::>> there) of Traveller on rec.games.frp.misc - and I think I may be
 ::>> missing some of it; I do a vgrep on subject lines, rather than
 ::>> letting the computer find them for me, plus, I have suspicions
 ::>> about the veracity of my provider's feed's statements that my
 ::>> provider is getting a _complete_ feed.

T::>Hm, well, now I don't know if that's such a good thing. I've been
 ::>reading these threads and they're by no means all pro-Traveller.

 No, they certainly are not, and I hope I didn't inadvertently
 present the impression that it was all positive.  As you go on
 to say, ...

 ::>One thread is Michael T. Richter, who panned T4 on his RPG review
 ::>web site. His criticisms about T4 are not totally unfounded, but
 ::>he's more or less a loud-mouthed anal git. (who doesn't read TML I
 ::>hope).

 More, rather than less.  I recall once upon a time giving him
 the list address and instructions, after he bitched about no
 Usenet presence of (the early) IG - I told him about their
 quite explicit presence on the TML, and suggested that he would
 do better to subscribe to the list - from IG's point of view,
 it had to be a "more bang for the Internet buck" situation.  He
 started smartmouthing about "elitists", and suggested that
 there were probably more people on rgfm than on the list.  I
 was going to tell him point-blank that he was full of shit;
 that the list was advertised pretty well on the Web, and by
 word of mouth; by the way, did you notice that I gave you
 complete information on subscribing, asshole?; I decided at the
 last minute not to; while I don't mind posting the occasional
 inflammatory message that causes _other_ people to get involved
 in flamewars, I don't play in them myself.

 I did suggest, in the same message to him that carried the
 address, that he'd be welcome on the list if he could engage in
 rational discussion and constructive criticism; but if he was
 going to be an asshole, he was welcome to rant all he wanted -
 on rgfm, not the list.

 I suspect very much that since we're too elitist for him, and
 capable of reasoned discourse without being assholes, that he
 would have no fun here, and hence doesn't subscribe.  If I spot
 the occasional reasonable person who I don't know is already on
 the list, I drop them a private with the list info, and an
 invitation to join.

 ::>       Someone criticized the aliens in AA and was met with the response
 ::>"go out and buy the old books" which was met, in turn, by "what kind
 ::>of f*cking game requires you to go buy out of print supplements to
 ::>be playable?" which quickly degraded into a typical Usenet flame-fest.
 ::>But as they say in the ad industry "There's no such thing as bad press".

 Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far - but to some extent, I
 suppose there's some truth to it...

T::>> Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe that reports of the demise of
 ::>> Traveller are greatly exaggerated.

T::>I think I heard my T4 hardback wheeze yesterday and I could have sworn
 ::>I saw it pop an ibuprofen, but dead it most certainly is not. :)

 You'd wheeze too, if you had to run at top speed for a couple
 of months to get where you were expected - and heavy breathing
 for too long gives _me_ an ibuprofen headache...

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Earthquakes are topographical errors.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:19:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Quoth Tony Zbaraschuk:
> OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
> maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
> and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
> possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
> who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)

Sumer's two orders of magnitude too recent: 3,000 BC vs. 300,000 BC.
Though Sumerian is non-Indo-European, as I recall, so perhaps they were
merely the last speakers of the tongue that also spawned Vilani.

Me, I'm convinced the Roswell Incident was really the crash of a Vilani
corporate scout... far better to spread rumors of little bald guys (or
were those one of the minor races serving within the Ziru Sirka?) than to
have the public face aliens who were human....  Which makes the Solomani
not a major race, and thus has been covered up for millenia.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 18:27:36 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Usenet flame-o-rama

On 01/31/97 at 10:22 AM,  Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com> said:

>> I *hate* to get into this but it's been annoying me for some time.  I'm
>> sorry to say that I have to support Michael T. Richter as far as his >>
complaints go...<snip>

Eeek!  Not here too!

> Well, I don't hate to get into this because some of Richter's complaints
> are valid, some aren't and he has a very antagonistic style which gets me
> riled up too, but I've seen the blood (so to speak) so I'll just stay
> out.

I read the usenet articles too, but I wouldn't post into that
meat-grinder on a bet!  ;-> I think Stu, Jeff, and Doug (until MTR baited
him into a flame war) have done a good job in there.

MTR, got his wind up *way* back when T4 first came out, had troubles with
IG over a credit card order, and gave the basic rules a very vocal bad
review.  Shortly thereafter he made an off-hand crack about IG "going out
of business" when he couldn't connect to their webpage or get them on the
phone, and Ken Whitman made his infamous reply.  (For those that don't
know, Ken basically said IG wasn't going out of business and he didn't
appreciate people making cracks like that or slamming a game, or company,
before it had a chance get going.)

I guess it wasn't a very polite response, and it probably wasn't the
diplomatic thing to do, but personally I think Ken had every right to post
what he did.  I don't think MTR meant any real harm with his crack, and up
to that point he appeared to be willing to reasonably discuss his
complaints, but Ken's post seemed to 'pop his cork' and the flames burned
brightly there for several weeks.  Since then, I don't think MTR has said
*anything* remotely kind about anything Traveller, and he's had quite a lot
to say.

I'm not suggesting that MTR's review, or subsequent comments, were biased
by his disagreements with IG or its management.  Others are free to think
that if they want to, but *I'm* not going to suggest it.  ;->  

I also think Michael *enjoys* trolling, and he's been using
criticism of T4 as bait.  Doug, trying to answer reasonably, got slammed,
replied, double slammed...and hooked...sorry Doug.

> The 3 things MTR has brought up (to my knowledge are):

> 1) T4's task system makes 'Impossible' tasks too easy.

> Yep. 'Impossible' tasks are too easy. I'd use a slightly modified
> system. 

Sure, a lot of us agree with this.  There are other nits we can pick with
the task system too, but we're in here fixing them...or developing and
using our own house rules.  

> 2) T4's character generation system makes it easy to min-max.
>    (Specifically, being able to get a duke or somesuch in 1 term) 

> So what? If a player really wants a Duke, go ahead. It's a random
> system, stupid stuff will happen. I just plain don't care about this.

I don't much care either, and this sort of min/maxing only takes place it
the GM allows the pick/pick method of CG anyway.  I think CG could be
improved (like I don't think *anything* can't be improved <g>), but it
isn't as "broken" as MTR thinks.

 3) T4's combat system is unrealistic.

> If I wanted ultra-realistic combat, I'd play another game. I want
> a certain sci-fi backdrop, so I play Traveller. I want characters to
> be reasonably afraid of gumplay, but I don't want to kill them off
> like Call of Chthulu (sp?) characters.
               --------- <---- my spell checker whated to change
               that to Chihuahua!  Isn't that an image? ;->               
               
Oh Pleeease!  :-> Does *anybody* think T4's combat system is
realistic?  MTR is just "stirring the pot" with this one.  T4's ground
combat system works.  

Personally, I like a more detailed system, and eventually we'll have one. 
Knowing this list we'll have several, so I'm not worried about it.  Hum, I
think I'll pull my old copy of "Snapshot" out...;->

> I think Doug has given some reasonable responses, but has gotten  sucked
> into the Usenet Flame Machine(tm), which I don't approve of, but can
> forgive him for, as it will happen to everyone who reads Usenet sooner or
> later. 

Yeah, I agree.  That's why I don't post in there.  First time
somebody flamed me I'd end up doing a 5 mile hike to cool off...and as much
as I might *need* to be doing 5 mile hikes, I'd prefer not doing them just
to calm down. ;->

> Thankfully on TML, mass Traveller love-ins are the order of the
> day and no one gets their nose out of joint, except maybe Phil.

That's why I *do* post in here!  ;-> Hey Phil, we love you too! When are
you going to give us the next update to your Vehicle Design System? 


Eris,
    the friendly, I wouldn't burn *you* at the stake, heretic. -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:53:46 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: G or not G update

At 04:44 AM 1/30/97 +0000, you wrote:
><snip>
>But Colin, you misunderstand. Terra's gravitational pull is 9.8m/s.  A G in
>Traveller is defined as 10m/s...and as all Syleans know *our* gravitational
>pull is 10m/s! ;-D
>
>Now the Astronomical Unit (AU), is another subject!  Instead of measuring
>in-system distances in the terracentric AU why don't we use the more
>universal light second (LS)?  We already use .1LS in range and movement
>calculations for space combat, so we are already half way there.  And while
>we're at it, let's use the Sylean kilometer for measurement so the LS will
>be exactly 300,000kps rather than the 298,XXX of the terran kilometer!
>
>[A joke! A joke! All above is a joke!]
>
>Eris
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
But it makes perfect sense. Why would the reborn Sylea use Terran measures,
other than for player convinence? 

I do believe that the meter is based on some atomic measurement, so it may
not be location relative like solar radii.

Garry

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:32:00 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)

At 04:39 PM 1/31/97 +0000, you wrote:
><snip>
>It does get my vote for the best SF series in history.  Second place to Star
>Cops.  Third to Dr. Who.
>
>--
>+-------------------------------------------------+
>|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
>|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
>|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
>|*************************************************|
>|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
>|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
>|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
>+-------------------------------------------------+
>
>

Dr. Who third?  Nah; a tie with B5 or second, not third.

Always been told that I have a warped (gravitationally distorted?) view.

Garry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:49:27 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: QSDS Example

When I first cracked open a copy of T4 and took a close look at it, I 
was distressed by what saw when I looked at the QSDS. It appeared to 
be complicated and cumbersome.

Last week I sat in on Bill Prankard's QSDS walkthrough on IRC, and
discovered that it's not as bad as I feared. QSDS is very similar, in
terms of complexity, to the original starship construction rules
found in CT Book 2. The main differences come from the addition of
tracking power consumption and use of the ship's surface area (simple
enough to tabulate along the way), and some additional details
regarding things like sensors, communications equipment, and the
like.

Overall, I find it a very simple system to use. It may need a little 
sprucing up, but it's quite usable.


I've posted a QSDS walkthrough (loosely based on Bill's discussion, 
with several of my own modifications, comments, and suggestions) at:


"http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/traveller/walkthroughs/QSDS.html"


It is also accessible from:


"http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/traveller/"


Please send comments if you like it or hate it. ;-)

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:53:13 -0500
From: Charlie <Brreclus@spectra.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller TNE??

- ------------5656342231D0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Jeff
 I am a long time player but by no means an expert. My take is that all
the Travellers have had their strengths and weaknesses, none are perfect
but all will fit x number of players needs. Gamers being gamers tend to
pool around the version they enjoyed most. The TML being the TML, folks
are all too quick to launch the flamers. My Group plays T4 but I like MT
best, but this is a personal choice. My suggestion is try all the
versions and see all the good stuff.

Charlie

- ------------5656342231D0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<HTML><BODY>

<DT>Hi Jeff&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;I am a long time player but by no means an expert. My take is
that all the Travellers have had their strengths and weaknesses, none are
perfect but all will fit x number of players needs. Gamers being gamers
tend to pool around the version they enjoyed most. The TML being the TML,
folks are all too quick to launch the flamers. My Group plays T4 but I
like MT best, but this is a personal choice. My suggestion is try all the
versions and see all the good stuff.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Charlie</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------------5656342231D0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:16:03 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: MT Products

sturm wrote:
> 
> I was reading my copy of COACC last night and saw 2 products
> advertised in the back, Flashback (an adventure) and Robots
> (Supplement).  Does anyone know if these products were every released?

Supplement 8 - Robots was actually published. I've never heard
of the Flashback adventure, though.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:06:34 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

>OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
>maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
>and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
>possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)

Yes!  Absolutely!  Why didn't I see this before!  What other explanation
can there possibly be? <G>  *Obviously* the Sumerians must have been
extraterrestrials -- how else could they have invented writing and
ziggurats and all that stuff, eh?  Eh?

I haven't got any Traveler materials on hand -- I'm doing this by memory --
but the Vilani had a fairly extensive interstellar society around 3000 -
2500 B.C.E., isn't that right?  Sounds like it might mesh with the canon...
well, sort of...

This also neatly explains why no one has been able to make a really solid
case for the linguistic affinities of Sumerian -- it's ALIEN.  Heh heh heh.

Great idea.  This one definitely goes in my mental file of cool consipracy
theories.

Kenji

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 19:51:03 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: G or not G update

On 02/01/97 at 12:53 AM,  Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net> said:

> Now the Astronomical Unit (AU), is another subject!  Instead of
> measuring in-system distances in the terracentric AU why don't we use
> the more universal light second (LS)?  We already use .1LS in range and
> movement calculations for space combat, so we are already half way
> there.  And while we're at it, let's use the Sylean kilometer for
> measurement so the LS will be exactly 300,000kps rather than the 298,XXX
> of the terran kilometer! 

> >[A joke! A joke! All above is a joke!]

> But it makes perfect sense. Why would the reborn Sylea use Terran measures,
> other than for player convinence? 

Because, I didn't want somebody jumping all over me for suggesting it.  I
*knew* the gravity of Core (ie Sylea) had been listed as something like .7g
in an early JTAS.  Got jumped anyway.  <g>

As for the light second, it *is* a good idea, but I don't think it'll
happen officially.

> I do believe that the meter is based on some atomic measurement, so it may
> not be location relative like solar radii.

Yeah, it has something to do with the spectral wavelength of some element
or other...I think.  OTOH, we could just say the meter is the length of the
Emperor's septre, or the width of his Iridium seat or something.  <g>


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:23:46 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Aperture Synthesis, Aegis

At 07:00 AM 1/29/97 +0000, Leonard wrote:
> <snip.
>But your velocity is always *zero*. It's everyone and everything else
>that is moving. Which means measuring *your* velocity *relative* to
>another ship requires bouncing radar or lidar pulses off them. And
>between time lag and the like, the gives you more uncertainty.
><SNIP>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

yes, relative to yourself, your velocity is always zero which explains the
way many people drive. However, since we are usually within a star system,
the simplest point of reference, for everybody, is the primary. If it is a
binary or trinary system, the largest star is used. So we can both time and
velocity stamp any synchonization packets in the data stream, based on the
velocity relative between any ship and the primary. Since we know our
velocity relative to the primary, and the data packet has the velocity of
the sending ship relative to the primary, we can then make any adjustments
to interchanged sensor data to account for tau factor.

This is certainly going to be one major difference between civilian and
military sensor suites. Law abiding civies aren't going to need this kind of
co ordination ability and the computational power to go with it.

Maybe the actual sensors are no different between military and civilian, but
the underlying support equipment certainly will be. Any be one of the things
that customs and patrol inspects will be looking into. 

Garry

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 04:16:21 +0100
From: Helmer Jensen <helmer@netg.se>
Subject: Re: Traveller Music

Since the topic is Music suitable for Traveller, try Mike Oldfield's
album "The Songs Of Distant Earth" inspired by Arthur C. Clarke's book
by the same name.

Enjoy! It is truly traveller.

Helmer Jensen (helmer@netg.se)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #902
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 1 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 903



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Fleet & Melee
Re: Usenet flame-o-rama
[none]
Re: MT Products
Re: Traveller TNE??
Re: G or not G redux
Re: QSDS Example
Where Eris's analogies break down....
Re: Fleet & Melee
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Heavy Metal
Re: MT Products
Re: MT Products
YATTS
Re: Traveller TNE??
Back to the Age of Sail

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:17:23 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Tony Z wrote:

[snip]

>has anyone considered the
>possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)

        I love it!  Make brilliant sense in an Erich von Daniken sort of
way.  Fits the timeline, fits Terran history, it explains the names, and
hilariously, also provides a catalyst for the Solomani's rise to
civilization that would drive most Solomani Party members absolutely
apeshit if word got out..:)

        Beautiful idea...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:04:44 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Fleet & Melee

At 06:03 PM 1/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 1/31/97 6:10:47 AM, you wrote:
>
>>> Actually, I have a weapon that will beup on my weapons page (coming the
>next
>>> day or two) that is a shaped charge with a sensor that only detonates
>>> against soft targets
>
>Ok but what about all those borders in hard armor???

I'm glad you asked that! Herealso in the same case at Gridlore Arms, you
will find the 10mm snub pistol.. the HEAP round will give a Damage of 8.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:04:47 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Usenet flame-o-rama

At 06:27 PM 1/31/97 -0600, you wrote:

>I also think Michael *enjoys* trolling, and he's been using
>criticism of T4 as bait.  Doug, trying to answer reasonably, got slammed,
>replied, double slammed...and hooked...sorry Doug.

deNada. real simple explanation:

During this past month, I've been stuck at home while my oncologist tried to
treat Yet Another Problem related to my Hodgkin's Disease.  This involved
massive doese of Prednisone.  This is a strong steroid.  I was going nuts
arounfd the house, on steroids, and then got provoked.

Boom.

I've pulled back, and refuse to answer his taunts anymore.

Of course, being this psychotic helped me write four article for JTAS, along
with a ton of weapon designs.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:17:19 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [none]

O Wise and Bearded One <aa4mwi@zen.sunderland.ac.uk> wrote:

[snip]
>>         You see what I was driving at then :).  Seriously, though, this
>> sort of project doesn't seem to be causing massive civil unrest everywhere
>> in Asia, but hey; if it makes good sense and good fun to have something go
>> really bad, way to go!  Have your PC's dodge fusion+-powered earthmoving
>> equipment driven by disgruntled union organizers and so forth...
>You reckon, what about in Indonesia there are a lot of very angry
>tribespeople out there who are quite annoyed at their forrests and landf
>being destroyed to build roads etc.


        Ya well the swift fist of progress; if you don't want to get with
the program prepare to be debugged :).


>Of course the road is alsp so the
>nice government can move troops around quicker to protect the populace.
>Or for an example closer to home how about the Zapatistas in Mexico.
>A good adventure seed would be for the government to act all nice and
>fluffy when the off worlders are around to get the aid and be bastards
>when the PC's backs are turned. What happens when the PC's find out/get
>kidnapped by the rebels etc.


        Absolutely.  I hope that Milieu 0 will have picked up on the themes
arising from the "imperfection of progress":  while some people in the
expanding Imperium will be overjoyed at their brand new 300-channel
holovision, others will not, and will see themselves marginalized...  It'd
add a certain grittiness to the setting.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:24:14 +73800 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: MT Products

Quoth David Smart:
> sturm wrote:
> > 
> > I was reading my copy of COACC last night and saw 2 products
> > advertised in the back, Flashback (an adventure) and Robots
> > (Supplement).  Does anyone know if these products were every released?
> 
> Supplement 8 - Robots was actually published. I've never heard
> of the Flashback adventure, though.

It got covered a few months back here on TML -- Marc posted the original
outline, which I still have somewhere or other on disk....  It was to be a
campaign outline for a group of Terran Confederation Marines, infected
with a virulent and incurable illness (or radiation poisoning or some
such?) who were thus forced into coldsleep, waking up periodically to see
if they could find help.  They end up popping up in the midst of the
Second Imperium, Long Night, Aslan Border Wars, Sylean Expansion, Solomani
Rim War, Rebellion, etc.  Probably would have been neat, though a
challenge to avoid patness.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:08:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Led Mirage <lmirage@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller TNE??

TNE is a fine game. Just enjoy it. The point of gaming is to have fun, not
following trends. Not to say other Travellers are bad, though. I first
played CT and was hooked. Never got a chance to aply MT, but got back to
Traveller when TNE came out. 
CT was set in the Third Imperium, so it has a more space opera feel to it,
but it also offers "hard science" stuff for gearheads like me. The rules
are fairly simple and clean, so gameplay is pretty fast. Also, there were
some very high quality stuff produced by other companies like FASA, DGP
etc. And not to mention JTAS, which I think is probably the first of its
kind. That is, a magazine that publishes a lot of fan contributions and
offers a very dynamic feel to the game setting.
Along came Frank Chadwick, and he almost totally changed the game setting
and rules with TNE. In is Virus and RC and out with the Imperium (yeah,
there's the Regency, but its not the same Imperium). I guess a lot of
people don't like what Frank did, because things have changed. A lot of
people feel that TNE has too much emphasis on combat, and rules, and
techno stuff. Well, they're right to a certain extend. The gritty feel and
the gearhead stuff is what I like about TNE, along with the RC. 
Different people have different tastes. If you're having fun, then by all
means, keep doing it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:40:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: G or not G redux

> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:53:46 +0000
> From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I do believe that the meter is based on some atomic measurement, so it may
> not be location relative like solar radii.

Nope.  The meter was defined during the French Revolution as 1/10,000 the
length of the meridian of Paris between the north pole and the equator.
Later, it turned out that (a) they'd used the wrong radius and shape for
Earth, and (b) this sucked as a practical definition...so the next
standard was defined as the length of a particular carefully machined
iridium bar.  Besides being an ideal throne material, iridium has the nice
property of having a tiny coefficient of thermal expansion -- meaning the
meter didn't change length (much) when the room got warm.  The Standard
Meter was housed at a lab (again in Paris, I believe) and used to create
copies which were in turn copied to satisfy the world's craving for meter
sticks.

Eventually, it was decided that this standard sucked almost as bad as the
first one had, and the modern definition was born:  N wavelengths of the
emission from a He/Ne laser.  This has the massive advantage of being
exactly reproducible on demand anywhere.  But, at root, the meter is
derived from good ol' Terra in the most direct possible way. 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:34:16 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: QSDS Example

David Blustein <traveller@MPGN.COM> wrote:

> Last week I sat in on Bill Prankard's QSDS walkthrough on IRC,...

Oops, I forgot one thing.

Thank you, Bill!

Cheers,
     David

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:35:27 -0500
From: Mitchell Schwartz <Ted7@world.std.com>
Subject: Where Eris's analogies break down....

At  Thu, 30 Jan 97 00:55:23, Eris Reddoch writes

>On 01/29/97 at 08:07 PM,  Mitchell Schwartz <Ted7@world.std.com> said:

>Probably true...certainly true given the canon Traveller view, but I'm a
>well-known heretic, so I don't pay much attention to
>canon...cannons yes, canon no. ;->

Oh, so I don't need to pay attention to things you say, either?  :-)

>In that vein let me say that we don't know how *bad* damage has to be
>before it can't be repaired, and as you say.  .  .
>
>> A better analogy would be naval craft from say 1900 on - equipment
>> on board can fix or patch somethings, but major component
>> replacement needs a shipyard.
>  
>During the steam period, most things on a ship could be patched well enough
>to keep the ship going until it got to a port, and most *non-structural*
>damage could be repaired in most any port if the ship's Engineer could
>scrounge up the parts.  Certainly, 100 meter rips in the hull or massive
>explosions in the boiler room could sink a ship outright, but bilge pumps
>could handle a pretty big hole and keep a ship afloat as long as the
>engines kept running, and boilers could be patched and gotten back online
>even after pretty heavy damage. 

Actually, holed boilers couldn't be patched very well at all.  That is why
ships ran on multiple boilers; (there was also a limit on the size of a
boiler that could be practically built and moved to the shipyard; There was
also a limit to how large a boiler could be serviced by men with shovels).
Not to mention that flooding the coal bunker would stop the ship (no way to
restart it).  Also, hitting an engine or drive shaft did permanent bad
things to carefully machined parts (like causing them not to move) that
coul.  In short, a few big hits in teh wrong places and the vessel could
well be permanently out of action until towed somewhere with a shipyard.

Also, in space, several small leaks would do just as well to erode teh
ship's atmosphere, which could kill the crew in a few days.  As could major
damage to a food service system, a water system, or a power system.

See, the problem with spacecraft is that they have to carry INTACT a whole
environment.  There's many pieces that once damaged are gone - and repairing
the system won't help bring back lost components.  And rememver, your spares
are just as vulnerable as teh rest of your ship.


>We don't know how robust a starship built 2000 years from now will be. 
>Certainly, present day electronic gear is much less repairable than
>mechanical components, but who's to say how much of the *required*
>equipment on a starship is electronic, how much is mechanical, and how much
>is gravitonic..and we don't know how
>fragile (or robust) gravitic technology will be. 

Sure we do.  That's not hard to judge based on TL extrapolation.  And other
than you, we all seem to have severe doubts about robustness.


>> And the weapons required to hurt an exemy vessel do too much
>> damage to make capture useful...
>
>Ah, now that's the sort of thing I've drive at!  Why?  Suppose it makes
>sense IN THE GAME to capture ships, because you can repair them and get
>them back into action on my side.  You'll want a weapon that *doesn't* blow
>the hell out of the other ship.  You'll want one that knocks out its drive,
>silences its weapons,

Think carefully.  I'm using weapons that knocks out it's drives and power
systems,
CinC centers and weapons - the vulnerable items hidden in the most protected
parts of teh ship.  I get there by blasting very hard to reach into the ship
to hit these components.  There won't be much else left.

besides, what do I want with a damaged ship that I have to tow, feed power
to, replace substantial chunks of its systems, not to mention require
specialized vessels to haul it through jump to a major shipyard? Not to
mention depleting my crews trying to figure out foreign control systems
designed using different design paradigms.  Bot to mentioning sitting still
in the midst of an action to send bording units (in small vulnerable craft)
across to the surrendered vessel.  Sounds like several wates of time,
energy, and manpower to me.

I'm not syaing ships won't be captured, but as a space naval commander, i'll
be more interested in rendering these vessels functionally in capacitated so
I can carry out my mission (or stop them from carrying out theirs).  The
fasted way is to incapacitate those systems we mentioned, which are kept as
safe as possible to keep a warship functioning as long as possible, will be
to blow the ship away as fast as possible.  Which is why there were so few
boarding actions in WWI & WWII.

>>> Speaking of speed, all ships were within a few knots of each >> other,
>so ships and fleets could often simply attempt to refuse >> battle by
>sailing off and losing themselves in the night, the fog, >> the distance.
>
>> Losing people that don't have teh curve of teh earth to hide around is
>> difficult.
>
>Sure, but there is *jump* space!  <g> If you can beat your enemy to the
>jump limit you can really disappear, and if you don't make it easy to
>follow a jumping ship it can escape.

If it's taht long to the jump point, the follower usually has a weapon or
missile taht will catch him first.

[points of displayed ignorance about historic naval tactics skipped to save
several Mb of discussion that has little to do with space combat]

>In *your* game a turn is 30 minutes, not in *my* game! 
I did not write space combat for CT, MT, TNE, or T4, so don't look at me. I
only report what it is.  Logically though, until you are very close,
maneuvering won't matter a lot, as long range will cause short term
maneuvering to disappear as a matter of scale.

When you writea space combat game, do post the rules.  

Until then, save teh bandwidth.


Guy Wilson says:
>Actually, raking is what one ship does to another. Crossing the T,
>although it 
>may be a later term, is widely used by historians to describe what
>Nelson did - 
>it is what one fleet does to another. 

"Crossing the T" is applied to Nelson only by modern historians.  Histories
from before 1900 call it "breaking the line". And in using the more modern
term, they miss teh key to Nelson's victory at Trafalgar:

Crossing the T is simply running your battleline in front of the other
fellows line, and bashing his front ships while only a few of his ships can
only use half their fire power on you.

What Nelson did was to cut into the French battleline, severing it. The back
half of the French fleet stopped - as teh English sailed by raking the
french in turn.  By teh time the front half of teh french fleet could turn
around and return, the brits had beaten up the back half and could turn
their whole strength on the front half.

mitch
"I would advise against consulting geese in matters of spelling."
          -Charlotte's Web

Ted7@world.std.com
http://world.std.com/~Ted7

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:09:05 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fleet & Melee

In a message dated 2/1/97 4:37:47 AM, you wrote:
Insert clipper nose here Buzzzzzzzzzzz
>>>> day or two) that is a shaped charge with a sensor that only detonates
>>>> against soft targets
>>
>>Ok but what about all those borders in hard armor???
>
>I'm glad you asked that! Here also in the same case at Gridlore Arms, you
>will find the 10mm snub pistol.. the HEAP round will give a Damage of 8.

But doesn't that take us back to that "sucked out it to space through the
hole in the wall" thing. And why use weapons on the ship when the ship is a
weapon. Besides the mess you have to clean up:-) 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 01:25:57 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Tony Zbaraschuk writes:

>OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
>maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
>and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
>possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)

   This theory only holds water if you find ziggurats on Vland.  

   Of course this plotline was used by Battlestar Galactica to explain
the ancient Egyptians and Greeks.  Anyone remember the opening
monologue?

Regards,

Harold

P.S. Bonus points if you can also remember the "real" human homeworld
according to BG.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:42:34 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal

At 03:39 PM 1/30/97 EST, you wrote:
>>> From: Scott Ellsworth <fuz@deltanet.com>  [...]  "You 
>die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal   <<
>Do you have any idea how much trouble I had to go through 
>to get a copy of this stormin' movie? When it was 
>rereleased in YankLand, I tried to get it here in England 
>and was told it had been banned. Banned! Bastards! Got it 
>in the end but wow! Talk about Police State.

Only one thing to say to that...

"HANGIN'S TOO GOOD FOR 'EM! BURNIN'S TOO GOOD FOR 'EM!
THEY SHOULD BE TORN LIMB FROM LIMB AND THEN BURIED ALIVE!"

jb

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:04:16 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: MT Products

Just saw Chepe's post. That covers it all. It's too late for me to be
reading and trying to coherently respond to posts. :)

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:04:19 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: MT Products

At 08:16 PM 1/31/97 -0800, you wrote:
>sturm wrote:
>> 
>> I was reading my copy of COACC last night and saw 2 products
>> advertised in the back, Flashback (an adventure) and Robots
>> (Supplement).  Does anyone know if these products were every released?

Flashback was never released, but it had some interesting story ideas
included in it. There was some discussion on it some months back on the list
and Marc Miller even chimed in with what he knew of it, but I appear to
either not have saved that digest or am too tired at this hour to see it.
Just saw Big Screen Star Wars, and my brain's a wee bit overloaded. Anyone
else have the Flashback info saved? 

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 07:24:33 +0001 (GMT)
From: Marino <marino@torino.ALPcom.it>
Subject: YATTS

Greetings to all.

I've recently obtained a copy of T4 and used it for converting
my new CT campaign back from GURPS, which I used for the first
2-3 adventures.

Like many others, I didn't like the task system published in
the manual, and I'm trying to substitute it with something which
retains some of its basic virtues:

- - Simple, fast, uses only D6 (or fractions of them!) 

and also attenuates some of its problems:

- - Too easy for PC and NPC, skills count a lot less than attributes.

What I came up with is a system lifted from the old Traveller 2300
system, and adapted to D6 and the T4/CT attributes scale. It's
probably similar to MT e TNE, but I don't own these games, so I
can't check them out. I dropped many of the more subtle aspects
of the original system (time for completing tasks and so on)
because I wanted something simple and fast.

Here is a first draft, please comment on it freely: I could have
missed a lot of obvious points, and I'm still playtesting the thing.
Also, I read the Traveller list in digest form, so allow some
time before any answers to queries. 

I can be reached by e-mail at different addresses: the fastest
is mc4799@mclink.it.


Yatts: Yet another T4 task system. 
- ----------------------------------- Beta Version ----

Basically, you divide the relevant attribute by half, rounding
up. You add the relevant skill (if any) and finally add 2D6,
trying to beat a task number.

The task scale becomes:

Easy      Auto/9+ (Automatic for skilled characters, like in T4)
Average     12+
Difficult   15+
Formidable  18+
Staggering  21+
Impossible  24+

Critical Failures
- ----------------- 
Rolling 2 on the 2D6 becomes a critical failure. If your
stat+skill is high enough to still get a success, the referee
may decide one of the following interpretations:
- - You succeed, but incur some related problem (i.e., you hit the target,
  and *then* the weapon jams)
- - You fail out of bad luck, no matter what.
- - You reroll but raise the difficulty by one level (e.g. from
  Difficult to Formidable). This one can be repeated up to
  Impossible and beyond (Just add 3 for the next level)

Critical Successes
- ------------------ 
Rolling 12 on the 2D6 becomes a critical success. You can apply
the same (vague) rules used in T4, for example a critical in
combat situation will double damage/halve armor.
You may also apply one of the following effects for tasks
unrelated to combat:
- - If you roll a critical and are still short of the task level,
  due to low skill/attrib., you can add another D6 to the roll.
  It's basically a semi-opened roll, but you can't add more that 1D6.
- - You reroll reducing the difficulty by one level (From
  Impossible to Staggering, for example). This can continue to reduce 
  the Difficulty level down to Easy 
- - You get it right, no matter what.


A small roundown of success chances will help you decide if the
system looks sound.

An average character (stats at 7) with professional level skill
(Skill level 3), will be column 7.

(Stat/2)+Skill |   1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12
- ---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------
Task Difficulty|
Easy       (9+)|  42%  58%  72%  83%  92%  97%   A    A    A    A    A    A   
Average    12+ |   8%  17%  28%  42%  58%  72%  83%  92%  97%   A    A    A
Difficult  15+ |   I    I    3%   8%  17%  28%  42%  58%  72%  83%  92%  97%
Formidable 18+ |   I    I    I    I    I    3%   8%  17%  28%  42%  58%  72%
Staggering 21+ |   I    I    I    I    I    I    3%   8%  17%  28%  42%  58%
Impossible 24+ |   I    I    I    I    I    I    I    3%   8%  17%  28%  42%  

Where 'I' means "Impossible without a critical success" and A
means "Automatic without a critical failure". 
Remember that skilled characters will not need to roll for Easy tasks.

Uncertain Tasks
- ---------------
Due to the new task system, some of the other basic mechanics
should be modified. For uncertain rolls, (like finding bugs in a
program or deciding if a given info is true) the referee and
player should each roll the 2d6. The referee roll should be secret.
Result:
Both fails: Complete failure, in the example, some or no bugs were found,
            and the program is still buggy.
Both succeed: Complete success. All the bugs are identified and
             no further problems will manifest.
One fails and the other succeed: Partial success. Some of the
bugs are found, but the program is not stable (and the player
will not know what the referee roll was, so he will be uncertain
of the true result.)

Known problems
- --------------
High attributes will still help you a lot. The present system
doesn't penalize unskilled people using default skills. This way
Level-0 is not really much worse then Level-1, while the
original T4 gave quite different results on this.
For example a Skill-0 Brute will probably trash easily a
Brawling-1 amateur boxer. This is probably fine (and subtracting
the brawling-1 from the brute rolls will help a little, like
specified in the combat chapter), but perhaps some other
mechanics, like adding a flat "unskilled" penalty could be useful.
For now I prefer to keep things as simple as possible. 
On the other hand, "unskilled" and "Level-0" where not the same
thing in CT, and some of this still lingers on in T4.

Any suggestions?
 



 _________  Paolo Marino  _________ | mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred)
Inrete Games Page:                  | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)
http://www.inrete.it/games/gms.html | marino@Torino.ALPcom.it (Newsfeed)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 02:43:22 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller TNE??

Jeff Brawley writes:

>I've read on the list the past few days that there are some people that
>don't like ttne.  Since I'm new to the list I've missed the past 
>discusions on this, and don't understand the references to the poorness >of the game.  

   References to the "poorness" of TNE inevitably come from individuals
who disliked the plotline (Virus, rebuilding civilization), the more
complex game mechanics (D20, FF&S), or both.  Of course there are those
individuals who shall go nameless that hate *everything* released after
the original three little black books, but then they wouldn't know a
good sci-fi RPG if it bit them on the ass.

>I myself am new to traveller and only play ttne.  I love it, and the 
>group I play with never fails to be ammusing.  It's the most I've had 
>since my first D&D game way back when, and think it's the best thing 
>since sliced bread.  

   My group splits time between TNE and Star Wars.  I run the TNE
games.  We use the Solomani Rim setting I created and had published in
Traveller Chronicle.  *Everyone* has a good time, and we are unlikely to
switch to T4 anytime soon (if ever).  TNE is quite simply the best
sci-fi RPG *ever* IMHO.  This is not to say that one day it won't be
topped (I had this same opinion of classic Traveller at one time), but
it is the best for now.  Is it perfect?  Hell no, but its flaws are
easily overlooked or fixed.

>Just wondering if some of you gurus out there could fill me in, on why
>it is thought to be lacking and what it is lacking in.  Just the ups 
>and down of it ocmpared to other Travellers.  Not trying to start any
>flames, just trying to round myself out.  

   What TNE needs (IMHO): 

1)  A new star system generation sequence.  The original version that
appeared in Book 6: Scouts was OK (and in some ways brilliant), but had
some big flaws.  TNE addressed some of the flaws, but in light of all
the new information we have about the way the Universe works, even the
revised B6 rules are now broken beyond repair.  This is an area where IG
can make T4 a superior product to TNE, if they are willing to do what is
necessary and don't just reprint B6 in another form.

2) Streamlined design systems for newbie and "gearhaters", and
automation in the form of official computer game aids for true
"gearheads".  This was probably the greatest shortcoming of the TNE game
mechanics.

3) Watercraft design rules.  None were ever put into print.

4) Better robot design rules.  Your typical Robot should not weigh
several hundred of kilos and consume more power in a day than many small
towns in the 20th century do in three.  Another area where T4 can
surpass TNE.

5) Minor tweaks to the small arms combat system.  Probably the most
suggested item is to find someway to make guns more lethal (roll D10
instead of D6 for damage, etc.), but there are other things that could
be done to make it better. 

   I have always been of the opinion that had TNE used the post-war
Spinward Marches c. 1200 as its primary setting and had a storyline that
revolved around the reunification of the Imperium without nuking the
landscape with Virus (though Virus could still have been used as a plot
device), TNE would have been much more popular with established fans. 
It may even still be in publication, if not by GDW then by IG or some
other company.  

   Ending one story and beginning a new one with, "and then everything
blew up", is no way to ensure customer loyalty, even if the basic plot
premise is a sound one.  TNE gets a lot of undeserved flak for this
reason.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 97 02:31:15 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Back to the Age of Sail

On 02/01/97 at 12:35 AM,  Mitchell Schwartz <Ted7@world.std.com> said:

> >Probably true...certainly true given the canon Traveller view, but I'm a
> >well-known heretic, so I don't pay much attention to
> >canon...cannons yes, canon no. ;->

> Oh, so I don't need to pay attention to things you say, either?  :-)

Not unless you really want to.  There are certainly times when *I* don't!
;->

> Actually, holed boilers couldn't be patched very well at all.  That is
> why ships ran on multiple boilers;

Well, that was one reason, yes.  Boilers that were *holed* by weapons fire
probably wreaked the entire engine room when it happened.  At that point a
hole in a boiler wasn't the ship's biggest problem. ;->

OTOH, parts of the power train often went offline in an attack, or were
taken offline to prevent an explosive situation in the engine room.  When
the damage wasn't too severe they could be patched and restarted.  Didn't
one of the US carriers at Midway lose it's boilers during one of the
attacks, only to get them going again causing the Japanese some confusion
as to what they had or had not hit?

> Also, hitting an engine or drive shaft did permanent bad things to
> carefully machined parts (like causing them not to move) that coul.
> In short, a few big hits in teh wrong places and the vessel could
> well be permanently out of action until towed somewhere with a
> shipyard.

Sure, and a ship could take massive damage and keep steaming too. Just
depends on where those big hits landed.  

Mitchell, I'm not saying you couldn't cripple a steam ship to the point
where it couldn't be repaired outside of a major ship yard. I'm saying that
ships could take a lot of damage without be stopped, and that they *could*
make many repairs even in the heat of battle. You don't dispute that do
you?

Finally, the steam ship isn't what *I* would like to model here. I've been
talking about an Age of Sail feel, and how to achieve that feel in
Traveller.  Someone else brought the steam era up, and pushed as being more
similar to Traveller technology.

> >We don't know how robust a starship built 2000 years from now will be. 
> >Certainly, present day electronic gear is much less repairable than
> >mechanical components, but who's to say how much of the *required*
> >equipment on a starship is electronic, how much is mechanical, and how
> much >is gravitonic..and we don't know how
> >fragile (or robust) gravitic technology will be. 

> Sure we do.  That's not hard to judge based on TL extrapolation.  And
> other than you, we all seem to have severe doubts about robustness.

Oh?  I don't recall seeing everyone posting their "severe doubts" about the
robustness of starships.  ;-> But OK, say I *am* a minority of one on this
subject, so what!  

> >Ah, now that's the sort of thing I've drive at!  Why?  Suppose it makes
> >sense IN THE GAME to capture ships, because you can repair them and get
> >them back into action on my side.  You'll want a weapon that *doesn't*
> blow >the hell out of the other ship.  You'll want one that knocks out
> its drive, >silences its weapons,

> Think carefully.  

Not nice, Mitchell. ;->

> I'm using weapons that knocks out it's drives and power
> systems, CinC centers and weapons - the vulnerable items hidden in the most
> protected parts of teh ship.  I get there by blasting very hard to reach
> into the ship to hit these components.  There won't be much else left.

I suppose that means *you* couldn't think of a way to silence a ship's
weapons or take it's drive systems offline without destroying them.  That's
what I was asking for, and no I'm not sure I've got a way to do it either,
but I'm still "thinking carefully." ;-> 

Hum, I think we're talking totally at cross purposes here.  You want to say
how things ARE, and perhaps convince me that that that's the only way they
can be.  I want to find a way to make things work the way I WANT them to
work, and perhaps I won't find a way.  I intend to keep looking though.

It appears we have different ideas about what we want from the game, and
different historical interpretations of naval warfare.  I think, perhaps,
we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #903
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 1 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 904



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"
Re: [T97#893] Common Vilani Names?
Re: ThrustPlates and such
Re: G or not G update
Re: G or not G update
Re: Traveller TNE??
Fast Forward
Re: Fleet & Melee
TNE NDampers
Re: (no subject)
Re: (no subject)
Re: Some thoughts on RPG design (long)
Re:  Some thoughts on RPG design (long)
Re: QSDS walkthrough
Re: Circular PAWS (Canadian Content Alert!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 97 03:06:32 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"

On 01/30/97 at 08:37 AM,  Guy Wilson <ccguy@showme.missouri.edu> said:

> > I'm still looking for a way to reduce that to...oh say...3 minute turns.
> > Yes, I'll have to change ship speeds, yes, I'll have to do something about
> > weapons and ranges, and no I won't want to deal with major fleets.  What
> > I'm looking for is "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" in space, or I guess, "Star
> > Ships and Crystaliron Men."  ;->
> > 

> Hey, heresy is great! 

> Anyway, have you considered using Ironclads as a model - it provides a
> similar feel to WSIM but with engines.

I haven't been able to run down Ironclads, what can you tell me about it?

You've probably guessed that what I really want to do is find a way to make
boarding actions a viable option.  ;->

I don't want ships turning each other into useless hulks at k^5 ranges. 
Somehow or other, I'd like to find a way for ships to have their drives
and/or weapons disabled without being completely wreaked.  That way there
would be both the opportunity and reason for close in and boarding actions. 
Any ideas?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:57:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [T97#893] Common Vilani Names?

In mail you write:

>  'sides, I missed that connection, too - I made the "Baker"
>  connection instead - "Miller" didn't seem to me to do _enough_
>  to turn crude Vilani vegetables into something edible, and I
>  know that even on Terra, there are some vegetables that just
>  have to be _cooked_ to be eaten (ever try raw asparagus or
>  Bruxelles sprouts?  Worse than cooked, and that says
>  something).

There are *far* more complex things than that done *routinely* to make
food edible. 

Consider manioc (I think that's the name). You have to pound it to a
pulp, then dump the pulp into something like cheesecloth and rinse it
with water until the water is clear. Otherwise it's *poison*.

I rather suspect that this got discovered as a poison source
originally, and someone's kid got into the "leftover" pulp and
surprised everyone by living!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:12:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ThrustPlates and such

This is a reply to one of a bunch of *old* posts that got hung up here
until today. 

In mail you write:

>> So then, if inertia is a property of mass, and dampeners *don't* reduce
>> the mass of an object, then what the heck do they do? How do you dampen
>> inertia without affecting mass? I'm having trouble handwaving that one.
>
> That's one of the Big Questions.  When you come right down to it, "mass"
> is defined by two properties:
>
> 1) Resists acceleration ("inertial mass")
> 2) Creates gravity ("gravitational mass")
>
> The cool/weird thing is, while the two correlate exactly in every known
> experiment, nobody has produced a theoretical basis for their always being
> the same.

Not true! There is a hypothesis that inertia *is* "caused" by the
gravitational attracation of the rest of the universe! If I remember
correctly, this is known as "Mach's Principle".

> In other words, if you decrease both the gravitation and the inertia of an
> object, you've de facto reduced its mass.  If you reduce just one of the
> above, you break the (current) definition of mass; we'd need new technical
> vocabulary to talk about what had happened.

Yep!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:18:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: G or not G update

In mail you write:

> But it makes perfect sense. Why would the reborn Sylea use Terran measures,
> other than for player convinence? 

See previous post for why. :-)

> I do believe that the meter is based on some atomic measurement, so it may
> not be location relative like solar radii.

Actually, the *second* is defined as so many cycles of the frequency
produced by some specific energy transition in a specific isotope of a
specific element. The meter is a *derived* unit now. You get it by
using the value of a second and the *defined constant* for the speed of
light. Light is *defined* as moving at a specific velocity now. So one
meter is 1/299.... of the distance light travels in one second. 

The did this because the speed of light can be measured in a lab and so
can the period of that energy transition. That means that a lab can
check their gear fairly closely *without* having to bring in a
"certified standard meter stick". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:04:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: G or not G update

In mail you write:

>>Now the Astronomical Unit (AU), is another subject!  Instead of measuring
>>in-system distances in the terracentric AU why don't we use the more
>>universal light second (LS)?  We already use .1LS in range and movement
>>calculations for space combat, so we are already half way there.  And while
>>we're at it, let's use the Sylean kilometer for measurement so the LS will
>>be exactly 300,000kps rather than the 298,XXX of the terran kilometer!

I can actualy give a "good" reason for keeping the AU!

You see, the *parsec* is defined in terms of AU! Seriously! A parsec is
the distance at which a 2 AU baseline gives a 1 second of arc parallax.
(therefore 1 parsec is *exactly* arctan(1") AUs).

Since the parsec is a "critical" measurement, AUs stick. 

The above is true, though humorously intended. But I can actually make
a case for keeping AUs *because* of the relation to parsecs. When
conducting an *astronomical* survey of a region you intend to move
into, that 2 AU baseline letting you *directly* measure distance in
terms of parsecs.

I forget the details of the calculation, but this is
why astronomers use both Parsecs and AUs. Using the 2 AU *diameter* of
Earth's orbit makes both AU's and parsecs "exact" units. That is, you
can specify distance in terms of AUs and parsecs to high accuracy, even
though you aren't certain how long an AU is!

So, since determing the distance of other stars from your starting
point is a *fundamental* step in getting ready to visit them, setting
up observatories (or at least well equipped ships) *exactly* 2 AU apart
(measure with laser interferometers) would be something that the
terrans would have used for a long, long time. Given that jump 1 works
out to be about a parsec means that the unit would stick. So therefore
the AU would stick.

Anybody want to publish an article on *why* the Imperium uses parsecs,
AUs, days divided into 24 hours, years divided into 12 months, etc? I
bet I could write one....

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 07:31:15 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller TNE??

Harold D. Hale wrote:
> 
>    What TNE needs (IMHO):
> 
> 3) Watercraft design rules.  None were ever put into print.

Yes, they were. They were spread out amongst 2 or 3 Challenge
magazines and include, IIRC, steam power and sail as well as
the design of black powder cannon and submersibles. I've never
used them so I don't know if there are any glaring errors 
within them.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:03:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Fast Forward

Hi, 

I believe this is the post that's being mentioned in relation to 
"Flashback" . . .

- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
From CardSharks@aol.comSat Feb  1 08:02:53 1997
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:07:02 -0500
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Reply to: traveller@MPGN.COM
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Fast Forward

In a message dated 96-11-01 04:45:40 EST, you write:

>  Hey, this would be a really great way to solve the problem of how to
>  run a campaign using more than one Milieu setting without forcing the
>  players to roll up whole new sets of characters for each one (or resorting

>  to hocus-pocus "reincarnation"), and seems especially appropriate for T4.
 
>  I hope this sees print someday!
>  
That was the idea. Here is the basic draft as it was proposed:

Fast Forward

The crew of the starship Traveller is contaminated by a slow acting poison
with no known cure. Captain Mark Leonard has put them all into cold sleep;
they come out every century or so to see if a cure has been found.

Brief Summary
Commander Mark Leonards exploration squadron, exploring the depths of the
just conquered Vilani Empire, has discovered an abandoned naval base on a
remote world, and in a repair facility: a huge Battle Cruiser. While
preparing to take it back to base, they are attacked and all of Commander
Leonards crew are contaminated by a deadly, slow acting poison.
Theyll all die within five years unless an antidote can be found. They do
some searching, but they find no one has the answer.
So he puts everyone into cold sleep, and a skeleton crew comes out every
century or so to see if the answer has been found. As they Fast Forward
through the future, they have a long list of adventures.

During the next 2000 years (about 2300 AD to 4500 AD) the crew of the
Traveller will come out of cold sleep every so often in search of a cure.
Along the way, they will witness the broad expanse of history as The Rule of
Man collapses and the Long Night begins. Much later, the Long Night ends and
the Third Imperium begins. At every important point in history, Leonard is
there helping, shaping, creating history.

The Rule of Man	2317 AD	to 2745 AD
The Long Night	2745 AD	to 4521 AD
The Third Imperium	4521 AD	to 

Threads for Adventures include:
7 The Medical Research Foundation
7 The Archives
7 The Ship
7 Grandfather
7 Unfolding History
 
The Foundation
Commander Leonard loads up equipment from the abandoned base and sells it to
generate money. He uses that money to create and endow a medical foundation
(Lishun, meaning Health) to research the cure. While he and his crew sleep,
they should be working feverishly for the answer he needs.

7 Leonard visits the foundation and finds it has committed its limited
resources to an environmental problem on Sternin, and within a few years they
will have a cure that will save millions of lives. But not the crew of the
Traveller.
7 Leonard visits the foundation and finds that its investments have gone sour
with the collapse of the Rule of Man. The foundation will have to close its
doors.

The Archives
The Vilani Empire maintained massive archives (by which it controlled access
to knowledge). This AAB has repositories on many worlds. By visiting the
archives, Leonard may be able to find clues to a world which already has the
cure he seeks.

7 An archive visit leads to a world with faith healers.
7 The opportunity to transcend physical bodies and become one with the
universe. Some of the crew will take that option rather than face certain
death.
7 An archive visit leads to a world with non-corporeal solutions. Those who
choose it become disembodied and move on to the next level of existence.
7 An archive visit leads to a world with robotic solutions. Those who choose
it have their minds transplanted into artificial bodies.
7 Transplant personalities into a computer universe.

 
The Ship
Initially, Leonard and his staff think the ship was built by the Old Empire
as a secret project or a prototype.

7 They discover the ship does not match any ship in the records of the Old
Empire. It is not a Vilani ship, but instead created by someone else.
7 They discover the ships computer has artificial intelligence, and slowly
puzzle out its memory.
7 Discordant signals within the ship prompt Leonard to explore a vast hidden
closed off area and find new properties for the ship.

The ultimate answer: the Traveller (the huge ship) was originally created by
the Ancient Yaskoydray (Grandfather) for a special project. It is controlled
by an artificial intelligence that 

Grandfather
The being that put humans on many worlds is Grandfather. He still roams space
and interacts in the lives of humans from time to time.

7 Find an Ancient Site... a massive, high-tech place on a world, now
destroyed by some long-ago war. Establish who the ancients are.
7 Find an ancient ship drifting in space. Note some similarities with the
Traveller.
7 They are enlisted by a robot emissary of Grandfather to ....

Unfolding and Shaping History.
As time passes, the current government and society collapses. Leonard and his
staff can see it coming, and they want to help delay that until the cure is
found. Although they are unsuccessful, they have a hand in several key events
in history.
  
Restatement
INTROM Commander Mark Leonard's Deep Space Squadron 489, exploring the vast
territory of the just conquered Vilani Empire, discovers an abandoned naval
base on a remote world, and in a repair facility: a huge Battle Cruiser.
While Cdr Leonard's squadron crews prepare to take it back to base, they are
attacked by armed raiders from TTT (Terran Trade and Transport), a shady
combine with more regard for profit than for morals. Leonard drives them off,
but the BC is damaged and his entire crew (with the exception of Leonard) are
contaminated by a deadly, slow acting poison.
Faced with the certain death of his entire crew within five years, Leonard
puts them in cold sleep, keeping out only a few dozen out to help run the
ship. His initial strategy is to search the empire for an antidote, but that
plan soon changes: Leonard finds a world, brings in a cargo worth a lot of
money, and uses the funds to endow a medical research foundation to research
a cure. He takes the ship and hides it, coming out every 100 years or so in
hopes that a cure has been found.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 06:01:17 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Fleet & Melee

At 01:09 AM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 2/1/97 4:37:47 AM, you wrote:

>>I'm glad you asked that! Here also in the same case at Gridlore Arms, you
>>will find the 10mm snub pistol.. the HEAP round will give a Damage of 8.
>
>But doesn't that take us back to that "sucked out it to space through the
>hole in the wall" thing. And why use weapons on the ship when the ship is a
>weapon. Besides the mess you have to clean up:-) 
>
Well, after double checking my design, the 10mm snub really ends up at a 6,
which will still punch through most armor, but not bulkheads.  as for those
damn Marines boarding you.. good luck.

There might be any number of reasons why one would need to use handheld
weapons onboard ship.  Perhaps the computer is being finicky or has been
damages, rendering the old "crank up the Grav plates" option useless.  Maybe
the bad guys already have Engineering, and you need to take it back.
(That's when you want the Thornet)

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 08:53:39 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: TNE NDampers

All the recent on TNE reminded me of something I meant to post
last year and forgot about. I faxed GDW some questions about
the Nuclear Damper *screens* mentioned in FF&S and received
the specifics on the effects of ultra-high TL dampers on
missiles. For those of you using Brilliant Lances, the
Diff Mods based on Closing Velocity, as forwarded by David
Nilsen, were:

TL       Diff Mod
16-17    + per CV/6
18-19    + per CV/7
20       + per CV/8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 97 16:12 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: (no subject)

In-Reply-To: <32EE9E25.1526@intergate.bc.ca>

> When a ship exits from jumpspace is there any information
> obtainable from the energy discharge it makes? ie when a 
> (for instance) Patroling ship insystem detects the energy
> discharge can they determine 
> -the size of the ship
> -what direction it jumped in from
> -how far it jumped

Not IMO. There's a gravity pulse (plus any signals the ship is 
emitting), but you'd only see it if you were looking.

> also what info if any can be determined when a ship jumps out

You get a huge energy pulse, proportional to the size of ship and 
distance jumped. Assuming you know the stats of the ship, you can 
estimate the distance (but not direction).

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 97 16:12 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: (no subject)

In-Reply-To: <32EE9E25.1526@intergate.bc.ca>

> When a ship exits from jumpspace is there any information
> obtainable from the energy discharge it makes? ie when a 
> (for instance) Patroling ship insystem detects the energy
> discharge can they determine 
> -the size of the ship
> -what direction it jumped in from
> -how far it jumped

Not IMO. There's a gravity pulse (plus any signals the ship is 
emitting), but you'd only see it if you were looking.

> also what info if any can be determined when a ship jumps out

You get a huge energy pulse, proportional to the size of ship and 
distance jumped. Assuming you know the stats of the ship, you can 
estimate the distance (but not direction).

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:41:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on RPG design (long)

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Uhh, Thomas, you just did it...that's part of the GM's job.

No.  It's the job of a scalable system to provide a level for low detail
which still has *some* foundation in the game system.  As I stated before:
I'm new to Traveller and if I'd start to create ships from my imagination
I probably would add up with stuff incompatible to the Traveller rules.
Should I decide at a later point that I want more detail I would have
created a big mess.  My players probably by then are accustomed to those
ships and to some detail and now -- when they want more -- they have to
learn that my made-up stuff just doesn't work within the system.

Not a good approach.  Please note: I'm asking for a simple system for new
players... you old-time fans probably have no problems winging it.  For us
newbies it's just not possible.

> There is no need
> for a 'design' system rewrite.

That's your opinion and it is as valid as mine.  It's not more true pr
false by any means though. 

> However, I don't think that QSDS needs to
> be taken out of the main rulebook. Cleaned up, with design examples, yes,
> but removed? No , not at all. Just because YOU like a minimalist approach
> does not mean that that is all that should be offered...this isn't a
> personal flame, just an observation.

I *never* said that I wanted to only have the minimal approach (and I took
great care to do that).  Reread my post.  Marc Miller simply stated that
T4 should be scalable and current the ship design system is missing a
basic level.  Sorry, but you simply can't scale it down to quick-and-dirty
designs (except by practicing a lot... maybe... but that's scaling by
practice).

> Given the state of RPG's today, a simple, minimalist approach, like the
> original CT will vanish from the marketplace in a hurry. People just
> don't seem to tolerate LBB's anymore. 

You should take a look at recent roleplaying games.  Most of them try to
become simpler.  Gamers *want* simple and easy to learn games.  If the
games allow to add more complexity later, that's fine.

Look at the SAGA System, Over The Edge, Castle Falkenstein, Feng Shui,
FUDGE and many other systems.  All of them are very simple to learn and
they all are selling to some extent or another.  Even Champions/HERO will
be released in a simpler system (ok, that's their intention -- if they
succeed is another question).  Games these days are more targetted at
providing enough mechanics to tell a good story in a reasonable frame of
reality... the mechanics-heavy games right now seem to be on the decline.

> The rules are what you make of them, the rules are not a straightjacket,
> the rules are to be discarded as you like.

But the rules should allow various levels of detail... at least if the
designer states that this is one of the five primary design goals.
Otherwise this goal probably should have been omitted.

> You don't like, or want formulas. Fine, you truly don't need to use them
> to play the game, AS WRITTEN. You do want formulas for everything. Fine
> you can use them by the rules AS WRITTEN(at least whenever FFS II,whatever
> it's called) comes out. That's the beauty of a 'object-oriented' game
> system, like the qsds/ssds/ffs sequence.

Where is my place in that system?  I want a simple, quick'n dirty system
for occasional ship designs which don't need to be *that* close to the one
true set of values.  QSDS simply doesn't fit the bill, sorry.

Telling me to wing the rules is as good as telling me to write my own set
of rules.  I want a somewhat consistent system and not something made up
from air.  Then I'd be playing FUDGE or Over The Edge.

> 	If you can't do that, then the rules need to be fixed, but I for
> one, would prefer a system with scaled complexity;

Yes, me too.  But the most simple level still is missing.

> sooner or later my
> players are going to ask, just how long that little freighter is, and what
> are the dimensions of the cargo hold, and how fast can the run from the
> bridge to the engine room, for which I need the detail provided by
> qsds/ssds/ffs.

That's the reason why I don't weant to simply make up numbers.  I want to
start with basic numbers and as soon as my players (and I) get interested
in more detail I'd like to upgrade to QSDS and if we want even more detail
we'd be using SSDS and if we would like to go totally overboard we'd be
using FFS.  Currently I have nothing to start out with.  Remember: I'm
looking at this from a newbie's point of view.  Most people on this list
sadly seem to be too experienced with Traveller to see the problems a
newbie can have with the current systems.  Sad but true over and over
again.

Ciao,

				Thomas.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:48:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re:  Some thoughts on RPG design (long)

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Trent Smith wrote:
>      Since I raised similar points a couple days earlier (but not at such
> length or so insistently)

:-)  I can be *very* insistent when I'd like to see perfetc results ;-)

> I'll try to ennumerate a little more closely the
> inadequacy I feel within QSDS.
[...]
>      I've designed exactly one (1) ship with QSDS and while it wasn't too
> terribly difficult or time consuming (I think it took the better part of an
> hour while simultaneously watching tv), I didn't feel all that satisfied with
> the end result, either.  The main thing I didn't like was that we're given
> pages and pages of tables to chose components from, without any rationale
> ebehind the numbers to allow us to extrapolate in-between values.

That's also a problem I think I have failed to mention up to now.  I just
can voice this concern, too.

> Rather than
> a big list of parts with seemingly-random numbers attached to them, I'd rather
> have had a few flexible guidelines which could be expanded as per the referee's
> needs (such as, for instance, expressing more values as percentages like "the
> jump drive typically takes up xx% of the ship's total volume per j-level, with
> a mass of xxtons and cost of xxMCr per cubic meter").

This is probably an interesting alternative to using much simpler numbers:
use percentages (not wildly broken ones like 57,34% please; use simple
ones like 10%, 15%; this keeps the numbers in a somewhat state).

>      As for adding up big columns of mass, volume, and power-usage, it seems
> that more approximate values would serve just as well for our (or at least my)
> purposes.

Definitely.

> I especially don't see why we need to get down to tenths and
> hundreths of points for power use.

That's also one of the main problems I see.  I sketched out some
simplifications in an email to Derek concerning this (e. g. drop the power
requirements for quarters, adjust the cost factors a little bit so that
all the math can be done *very* quickly; don't even think about the cost 
for bunks -- it's just too much hazzle, etc.).

Thomas Biskup.

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:34:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: QSDS walkthrough

I just went over to David Blustein's rendition of Commander X's qsds
walkthrough, and it looks quite nice, except for one thing. This will also
address other complaints regarding QSDS involving interpolation.

QSDS started life, lo these many eon's ago (like last March or so ;-) as
one version of 'FFS Lite', a way to modularize FFS into a table-driven
design system. The theory is that you build your starship by picking one
from column A, two from column B, and with parties of 8 or more you get
Spinal PAWS. 

The cost reductions of QSDS, as stated clearly in the design system, are
due to using standardized plug 'n' play componentry. 

The design for the scout/courier in the walkthrough follows QSDS until it
comes time for putting in the power plant. Then Cmdr. X interpolated
between standard components in the power plant tables to arrive at a 133
Mw powerplant. This isn't kosher...you can only use the powerplants shown
on the tables, so for the scout courier, you end up with the closest whole
10 Mw power rating over 133Mw you can get, by installing a 100, and 2 20
Mw modules, for a total of 140 Mw. 

An analogy would be walking into Checker Auto Parts and asking for an
alternator for your 86 Chevy something-or-another. They may ask you if you
want the 50 or 60 amp model...you've calculated that you need a 55 amp
one, so you aske them to shave some of the windings off the 60 amp one to
make it 55 amps. They'll look at you like you were insane, back away from
the counter a bit, and say you have a choice, 50 or 60 amps...which is it?

This makes a difference in fuel ratings, volume used, and cost, because,
if you install a custom 133 Mw power plant, you pay full nickel for that,
not the QSDS discount!

Plant	Volume	Fuel	Cost(actual, after QSDS discount)
133 Mw	4.8	1.4*	13.3
140 Mw	5.0	1.5	10.5

*Using corrected QSDS v1.4 stats, and T4 errata, using uncorrected T4
rules, both plants use 0.7 dT.

	So, you get 7 Mw extra power, at the cost of 0.2 dT cargo space,
and at a SAVINGS of almost 3Mcr.

In short, interpolation is a no no in QSDS design. You may not get the
highest design efficiency of using custom-fitted components, but you do
gain the relative ease of design that lookup tables can provide, if you're
not someone who finds using formulae easier than tables.

This is not to say, of course, that the Imperium had a standardized 133 Mw
plant for all those gazillions of Scout/Couriers out on loan to
disgraced...errr, I mean  <RETIRED> scouts littering the spaceways. When a
Government agency buys that many of anything, no matter how weirdly
designed, they become 'standardized' components, but that's another issue
entirely, and doesn't have to do with QSDS.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 06:09:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Circular PAWS (Canadian Content Alert!)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> [snippage]
>>
>>And if tractor beams are allowed, it makes a good design for customs
>>work, and the like. You "grapple" the other ship with the tractor beams
>>and pull it into the center of the "hole". So you have *lots* of
>>weapons showing, and you have it "surrounded".
> [more snippage]
>
>
>         In Canadian vernacular, Newfies (abbreviation for citizens of
> Newfoundland) tend to be the butt of jokes ridiculing their alleged general
> cluelessness.  A typical joke revolves around a Newfie-designed parachute
> that opens on impact.
>
>         The above idea about donut-shaped customs vessels reminds me of the
> back of the old Canadian $50 bill.  It had a scene of the RCMP's Musical
> Ride (basically, crack horsemen doing the equestrian equivalent of
> synchronized swimming) all gathered around in a circular formation with
> their lances pointed inward.  That particular formation is nicknamed the
> "Newfie firing squad".
>
>         A Tim Horton-class Customs Cruiser would definitely require
> extensive armouring on the *inside* of the torus :)...

Depends on the weapons used. :-)

If the torus is big enough, a fusion gun with short range would do
quite nicely.


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #904
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 1 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 905



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Questions
Re: There's gold in that there infrastructure
Re: Books for inspiration, and Callahans
TNE best SFRPG?
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Richter & Whitman
Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)
Re: Questions
Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)
Re: [T97#898] Traveller Linguistics
Re: YATTS
Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 06:54:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Questions

In mail you write:

> I don't know if it is my perception of the way SSDS and QSDS are written or 
> is there a serious problem here with fuel consumption?

Neither.

<snip>

> 2-	If, let us say, that you have a 100 Dt Scout ship, and you have
>	to explore a system that is two parsecs away from any system
>	that has either a Gas Giant or a planet that has water , or a
>	High Port. And let us say that there is little or no
>	information available to you about the system that you are to
>	explore.

And there's your mistake. If you have a scoutship like that, you can
determine the target star's position *more* than accurately enough with
the help of another ship sitting an AU or so away. You can do this for
stars *far* outside your jump range (say 100 parsecs).

All by yourself you can determine if there are gas giants, but an
observatory 10-20 parsecs away (an observatory in *space*) can do
better. It can detect planets. Heck, it can *image* planets at that
range! Heck, working from under this thick atmosphere *we* can detect
gas giants at those ranges!

So even a scout making the first Imperial survey of a sector will know
where there are gas giants and have *some* idea of whether or not there
are planets of decent size.

>	Therefore you cannot accurately plot where in the target system
>	would put you within either 2,000 solar radii (whatever that
>	is) to be able to use Thrust Plate technology nor 10 planetary
>	diameters to use ContraGravity tech.

The 2000 solar radii is *easy*. Not a problem at all. 10 planetary
diameters is not going to happen simply because you can't jump that
close to *anything*. The 100 diameter limit works both ways.

>	If you cannot plot to be able use either of these technologies,
>	then you will require a second maneuver drive system, either
>	HEPlaR or Fusion.

Not a problem since even a scout working alone can get close enough for
thrusters by making his own observations.

> 3-	Now, let us say that the above ship has two different types of
>	maneuver drives.

>	OK. You plot what you think is a reasonable plot and jump.
>	OOPS, somehow you have miss jumped. You are in the wrong
>	parsec, there is nothing in this parsec and your Astrogator
>	tells you that the nearest system is two parsecs away. How are
>	you going to get home? It will take 6.52 years for a radio
>	message to reach the closed system.

If the misjump is due to a malfunction, you are generally screwed
regardless. I assume that you are thinking that the ship "misjumped" by
jumping to the wrong spot (ie it wound up where they aimed, but that
wasn't where they thought they were aiming). As I show above, that
requires *extraordinary* incompetence. Much like a modern day navigator
making a 1000 mile error in determinig his position. It can happen, but
it's not anything people are worried about.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 06:29:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: There's gold in that there infrastructure

In mail you write:

> Of course, there are flies in the ointment -- and adventure hooks, of
> course.  First, in order for this to be cost-effective, you'll hire
> local labor at slightly higher than the prevailing wage to build the
> roads and do all of the other dangerous and dirty work.  The wage
> differential will guarantee that you'll get employees, but it will
> also slightly destabilize the local culture (as will your major
> offworld presence in other ways).

It could *majorly* destabilize the local culture. I refer you to
Christopher Anvil's story "The Royal Road". It's one of his many set in
his "Interstellar Patrol" universe. Unfortunately, almost none of his
stuff ever made it to paperback. 

Anyway, the idea is that if you pay wages to the natives for work on a
major project, this means that they aren't out there growing crops.
After all, in low tech societies the pool of people willing to drop
what they normally do to do the sort of manual labor in question are
the farmers, not the craftsmen! Though you'll get some "craft" people
on the jobs that use their skills. But the unskilled labor will be
farmers. 

Remember that it isn't until you get fairly high tech (Renaisance to
Napoleonic era) that you can *have* large numbers of non-farmers.

So why does this disrupt the culture? Well, if the farmers aren't
farming, what do people eat come harvest time?

In a "subsistence" level economy (typical of just about everything
earlier than the late middle ages) diverting *anyone* from food
production is going to result in starvation. 

Cultures that do better can support cities, and even rulers, etc.
But they can't support armies during planting and harvest. Not without
famine. 

We tend to overlook this. But it's why the fighting in Africa *leads*
to famine (also why the food sent for aid tends to get stopped by the
government, they know that it will let the rebels fight longer even if
none of it goes to any combatants) 

Most *rulers* will know this. And they won't *let* their people work
for you except at the slack times for farming. If they can't stop it,
they'll fight, because they know (better than the people do!) what will
happen when everyone who figured that they could leave the farm and buy
food from the *other* farmers realizes that the "other" farmers did the
same thing!

The high-tech folks who overlook this "minor" detail will be faced with
the choice of importing *huge* amounts of food (and doing so until the
farms can get back on their feet) or facing some *very( angry locals
who figure that the high-tech folks are responsible for them starving.

Hell, most of the people in the State Department don't realize this
effect exists. I think every single one of the countries that gives
"economic aid" in the form of financing local infrastructure work has
done this at least once. And I'm talking about since WWII!

A smart local ruler can even take advantage of this by offering higher
grain prices to his farmers and otherwise "discouraging" his people
from working on the project, but allowing people from neighboring areas
to work on it. Thus, he'll wind up with the project done, and a corner
on the food market. Shortly after that, he'll be ruling those
neighboring areas. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 05:41:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Books for inspiration, and Callahans

In mail you write:

> Fifth Foreign Legion series[Andrew Keith]: A lot like traveller in 
> sone ways, well written, and tech is pretty much in line with 
> traveller.

I saw *a* book with that "Fifth Foreign Legion" bit on the cover a few
years back. I liked it. You mean that there are *more*?!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:53:56 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: TNE best SFRPG?

Harold D. Hale wrote:

[snip]
>
>   My group splits time between TNE and Star Wars.  I run the TNE
>games.  We use the Solomani Rim setting I created and had published in
>Traveller Chronicle.  *Everyone* has a good time, and we are unlikely to
>switch to T4 anytime soon (if ever).  TNE is quite simply the best
>sci-fi RPG *ever* IMHO.  This is not to say that one day it won't be
>topped (I had this same opinion of classic Traveller at one time), but
>it is the best for now.  Is it perfect?  Hell no, but its flaws are
>easily overlooked or fixed.
[snip]


        Not ever having played TNE, I'm curious as to why you think it's so
good.  I've been pondering game systems for a while, trying to come up with
a truly universal, flexible system that has the best features of the games
I've played so far...  I tend to lean more towards a certain amount of
complexity (at the moment I'm leaning towards a success-based system like
StoryTeller, but with d20's and more resolution in the stats).  What, in
your opinion, makes TNE so good?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:53:53 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Harold D. Hale wrote:

>
>Tony Zbaraschuk writes:
>
>>OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
>>maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
>>and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
>>possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>>who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)
>
>   This theory only holds water if you find ziggurats on Vland.


        Not neccessarily; if we postulate a small group of Vilani getting
the h*** out of Dodge for whatever reason, without much gear, ziggurats
still make sense; given primitive materials and construction techniques,
building a tall building by piling up rocks in a pyramidal shape is a
no-brainer.  The Aztecs did it that way and so did the Egyptians.  The
Vilani-inspired Sumerians merely put more noticeable steps on theirs
because it gives more usable surface area.


>
>   Of course this plotline was used by Battlestar Galactica to explain
>the ancient Egyptians and Greeks.  Anyone remember the opening
>monologue?


        Not verbatim, but yeah.


>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>
>P.S. Bonus points if you can also remember the "real" human homeworld
>according to BG.

        No bonus points for me... I liked the series as a kid, but my
memory isn't _that_ good :).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:53:45 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett wrote:

>
>Quoth Tony Zbaraschuk:
>> OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
>> maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
>> and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
>> possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>> who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)
>
>Sumer's two orders of magnitude too recent: 3,000 BC vs. 300,000 BC.
>Though Sumerian is non-Indo-European, as I recall, so perhaps they were
>merely the last speakers of the tongue that also spawned Vilani.


        Well, according to the info I have, the Vilani developed jump drive
at approx 4750 BC.  It's a stretch, but not impossible, that a bunch of
dissident Vilani who didn't want to get eaten (or whatever :>) managed to
grab a ship or two and head for Splitsville, in time to influence the
Sumerians or Assyrians...  my recollection of the history of that area is
fairly fuzzy, tho.


>
>Me, I'm convinced the Roswell Incident was really the crash of a Vilani
>corporate scout... far better to spread rumors of little bald guys (or
>were those one of the minor races serving within the Ziru Sirka?) than to
>have the public face aliens who were human....  Which makes the Solomani
>not a major race, and thus has been covered up for millenia.

        It does make sense... especially, if we want to drag the X-files
into it, that the photo Agent Mulder had of the Roswell UFO was
wedge-shaped :).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:20:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Richter & Whitman

> Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>:
> I *hate* to get into this but it's been annoying me for some time.  I'm
> sorry to say that I have to support Michael T. Richter as far as his
> complaints go...

I agree. I felt, when I first saw his complaints on RGF.Misc, that he
was basically just one the many upset customers who, if IG simply took
note and made the appropriate changes in their way of doing business,
would come back into the fold, satisfied that he had done his part to
nudge IG into becoming a better company. Instead of listening to his
complaints, however, IG's response was... in my opinion... somewhat
less than satisfactory.

> Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>:
> MTR, got his wind up *way* back when T4 first came out, had troubles with
> IG over a credit card order, and gave the basic rules a very vocal bad
> review.  Shortly thereafter he made an off-hand crack about IG "going out
> of business" when he couldn't connect to their webpage or get them on the
> phone, and Ken Whitman made his infamous reply.  (For those that don't
> know, Ken basically said IG wasn't going out of business and he didn't
> appreciate people making cracks like that or slamming a game, or company,
> before it had a chance get going.)  I guess it wasn't a very polite
> response, and it probably wasn't the diplomatic thing to do, but
> personally I think Ken had every right to post what he did.

Hmm... interesting thesis. Since Michael isn't here to defend himself,
maybe it would be appropriate to simply repost Ken's remarks and let
people judge for themselves.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

From: Whitman@wisenet.net (Ken E. Whitman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: IMPERIUM GAMES & TRAVELLER
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:39:31 -0500
Organization: Imperium Games

I understand that a lot of rumers are going around about phones
disconected and books not coming out on time.  First let me state that
pound for pound on manpower, Imperium Games spends more time informing the
Traveller fans then most other RPG companies.  If some of you really are
TRAVLLER FANS LIKE YOU SAY YOU ARE, THEN WHY DO YOU NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THE
TRAVELLER MAILING LIST.  Then you would have been informed of our moving
plans.  

Next, IG does not tell everyone of our day to day business.  Therefore,
when we moved, we did not expect people to panic.

Secondly, we are not late on our future products, our release date is
SEP.  I belive there is a week or so left.  As for hard covers, we are
having Marc Miller sign them, and it is taking some time.

I feel that others who like starting rumers are only showing their own
insecurities and anger to the world.  Just because you have failed several
time in you life, dont belive everyone else is like you.  GET A GRIP!

KEN WHITMAN
president of Imperium Games

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Now, put yourself in Michael's shoes for just a moment. He's plopped down
a lump of cash and has been been waiting X # of months for T4 to arrive
in the mail. He's been waiting... and waiting... and lo and behold, IG's
website mysteriously vanishes and they stop answer their phones. What
would be your conclusion? What would be anybody's conclusion? In his
mind, IG took his money and then folded. He's a little annoyed. So,
he decides to post his theory to the net, citing his evidence as is
appropriate. Was this wrong to do? Wouldn't you do the same thing?
And then, pretending that you're Michael, when IG's _President_ posts
the response I've included above, just how would _you_ feel? How
would _anybody_ feel?

Take this as a rhetorical question if you like. I'm not really expecting
a response, but before you or anyone else decides to bad-mouth Michael on
this list while he isn't even here to defend himself, I would like you,
for just one moment, to appreciate the position he was put by IG's actions
with respect to taking his money months prior to shipping (which is,
incidentally, illegal) and then responding to his concerns in a fashion
which can only be described as... well... as TSR-like (which is fitting,
considering that's where Ken was once employeed).

> I don't think MTR meant any real harm with his crack, and up to that
> point he appeared to be willing to reasonably discuss his complaints, but
> Ken's post seemed to 'pop his cork' and the flames burned brightly there
> for several weeks.  Since then, I don't think MTR has said *anything*
> remotely kind about anything Traveller, and he's had quite a lot to say.

Y'know what? The whole thing could have been nipped in the bud if Marc
Miller had gotten online back in September and said, "I can't believe
what Ken just wrote. Michael, on behalf of the company, I'd like to
apologize, and I'd like to offer you a little something extra with
your order. Please contact me via email." That's all it would have
taken, and IG would have had a customer for life.

There's a moral to this story that I think is worth learning, and it's
not that Michael Richter is a jerk. The moral is that if you piss off
one customer, and allow them to stay pissed off, they can drive away
a hundred others, and the only loser will be you. The corollary,
fortunately, is that the reverse is also true. If you show a customer
respect, show them that you actually do care about their business,
they will bring their friends to your store, and you will grow
prosperous. In short, it's all about respect. Now back to our
regularly scheduled flame-fest.

jimv@empirenet.com

PS: Ken, my apologies for reposting something that you probably
never wanted to see again. This wasn't meant an a personal attack
against you. Stress/anger can make anyone press the "Send" button
before thinking things through... we're all guilty of this, myself
included. I just didn't like seeing Michael get trashed over
something that I feel shouldn't have happened in the first place.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:31:13 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)

Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net> asked:
>
> Why would the reborn Sylea use Terran measures, other than for
> player convinence? 


Some circa 2000 AD Terran cultures use measurement systems that were 
in use circa 1 AD. That's about the same separation one finds 
between The Rule of Man and The Third Imperium.


There's not much reason to abbreviate _pounds_ as _lbs._ other than 
for historical reasons, is there?


After Alexander the Great, some regions adopted aspects of Hellenic
culture, because that culture was considered to be "better".

After the Roman Empire, later cultures identified themselves 
with that culture for similar reasons.


The Syleans seek to emulate Terran culture, since everybody knows
that the Terrans conquered the Vilani. (and who wants to be a
*loser*!? :-)


With respect to other measurement systems, like calendars,
planet-locked cultures normally choose dating systems based on the
appearant movements of satellites (like the Moon) or stars (like the
Sun). Most historical Terran calendars are Solar or Lunar. (I'm sure
someone out there can find one that isn't, so ... :-) A Solar or
Lunar calendar is useful because either of these objects are
*easily* observable from the surface of the Earth. (with the
notable exception of bad weather :-)

It seems to me that a mature interstellar culture would create a
calendar based on some phenomenon that is easily observable from
every world in the area (subsector, sector, domain, or empire-wide).
What interstellar phenomenon do we know of that can be easily
observed *from planetary orbit or higher* in multiple star systems
with TL-9+ technology? 

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 12:27:54 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Questions

At 06:05 pm 01/29/97 -0800, Dave Strebe said:

>2-	If, let us say, that you have a 100 Dt Scout ship, and you have to
explore a system that is 
>	two parsecs away from any system that has either a Gas Giant or a planet
that has 
>	water , or a High Port. And let us say that there is little or no
information available to you 
>	about the system that you are to explore. 
>
>	Therefore you cannot accurately plot where in the target system would put
you 
>	within either 2,000 solar radii (whatever that is) to be able to use
Thrust Plate 
>	technology nor 10 planetary diameters to use ContraGravity tech. 

	If you can't accurately plot to come out around the star within 2000 times
the star's radius, then you shouldn't be flying a starship. 2000 times the
Sun's radius gives you a sphere out ot the orbit of Saturn. Plenty of room!

	Incidentally, when I wrote that paragraph, I could swear I'd put it as
2,000 solar DIAMETERS, which would let you get all the way out to Uranus.

>If you cannot plot to be able use either of these technologies, then you
will require a 
>	second maneuver drive system, either HEPlaR or Fusion.

	You won't require a second maneuver drive unless you plan on skulking
around in the far outer system. Like a military ship. And most military
ships probably WILL have an auxiliary HEPlaR drive for an extra "oomph"
during combat.

>3-	Now, let us say that the above ship has two different types of maneuver
drives.

>5- 	If the guide lines were changed from 10% of the Dt, or Volume to 1%,
any current ship
>	design would be able to handle such an emergency with ease, which given
the finality
>	of the above case, seems most desirable.

	The fuel requirements for jump were chosen deliberately to be the same as
for Classic and MegaTraveller. Your average ship does NOT and never has
carried sufficient fuel for multiple max-distance jumps. This is intentional.

	The only reason TNE changed the jump fuel requirements was because it did
not have thrusters as the standard drive system, instead using more
"realistic" reaction-mass based drives which required huge quantities of fuel.

	The only valid concern mentioned above was a misjump into deep
space--that's always left you in deep smelly stuff in Traveller. You don't
have the fuel for a second jump, and even with reactionless thrusters that
aren't affected by gravity, it'll take you longer than you have power to
get anywhere. So it's not a change at all to the "feel" of the Traveller
universe.

	If it really bothers you, you can rule that a jump exit MUST be made at
the same gravitational stress level as the jump entry, guaranteeing that
the ship reenters in a star system.

- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 97 16:08:27 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)

On 02/01/97 at 01:31 PM,  "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG> said:

> It seems to me that a mature interstellar culture would create a calendar
> based on some phenomenon that is easily observable from every world in
> the area (subsector, sector, domain, or empire-wide). What interstellar
> phenomenon do we know of that can be easily observed *from planetary
> orbit or higher* in multiple star systems with TL-9+ technology? 

Not bad!

Um....pulsars, perhaps?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 97 17:25:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#898] Traveller Linguistics

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) hath scriven...

T::>Speaking of Vilani, does anyone on the list know of Traveler linguistic
 ::>material that's been created?  Either canonically or privately?  Is anyone
 ::>*interested* in this subject?  I am -- in Vilani and/or Zhodani, at least.
 ::>Traveler, with all its hard-science feel, is pretty soft on the
 ::>socio-cultural side of things -- we shouldn't let those lumpy-browed
 ::>Klingons get all the attention for having their own language <G>.

 I don't know of anything beyond the random sound-combo
 generation stuff that appears in the Alien Modules/
 MegaTraveller Alien, plus one document with translation
 from Gvegh (a spinward Vargr language) in the GDW Vargr
 module.  I've had a nagging idea that this should be something
 that gets done, but I've never gotten to it.

 If people are interested in actually tackling a project of this
 type, send me private e-mail - if there's enough interest, I
 can start up a list, and we can have at it.

 Just briefly - a language must have a set of sounds that are
 anatomically possible for the beings that speak it, and it must
 have rules for combining them in ways that are anatomically
 possible. It must have a writing system (or at least a
 reasonable and consistent method of transcribing into the
 common language of those who are studying/creating it).  It
 must have a grammar, and it must have a vocabulary - and the
 grammar and vocabulary must be compatible with the phonology.
 The grammar and the vocabulary should be internally
 self-consistent, and consistent with the psychological
 world-view of the speakers.  When you have all that, you have a
 language that feels realistic and can actually be used - Marc
 Okrand's Klingon (tlhIngan Hol) is an example of this, as
 contrasted with most other partially-developed Star Trek
 languages, which are only funny encodings of English, if even
 that much.

 I'm game if you are...

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Nobody knows the Tribbles I've seen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:07:34 -0500
From: Chip Wright <ruwright@InfoAve.Net>
Subject: Re: YATTS

snip
>
> Yatts: Yet another T4 task system. 
>
snip
> Any suggestions?
>  
>  _________  Paolo Marino  _________ | mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred)
> 

My fix for the task resolution system is to replace the raw Characteristic
with (5+ (characteristic/4)), with fractions rounded off normally; e.g. A
character with a Dexterity of A and Pilot-2 will have a target number of 10
(5 + (10/4) +2).This closes the competency gap between less gifted
characters and savants, and puts more emphasis on skills.  

Additionally, I use a sequence of 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, and 6D for Average,
Difficult, Formidable, Staggering, and Impossible Tasks, respectively. 
Even a character with an F characteristic will need a high skill level to
succeed at an Impossible Task.  

The highest attainable skill level is 12; a character with a skill-12 will
have a target number between 17 and 21.  He will be able to routinely pull
off Impossible Tasks; which, given the rarity of such characters in my
campaign (read: none), doesn't bother me.

- ---Chip Wright

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 20:43:57 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"

>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:37:32 -0600
>From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>

>Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> Not true. Bigger guns *did* do more damage. A 12 pounder would bounce
>> off a ship that a 42 pounder would punch through *both* sides of.
>> Ranges *were* limited. Hitting at range was next to impossible for
>> broadside weapons. Only the bow and stern weapons were designed with
>> range in mind, and crewed by people who could use them effectively at
>> range.

>Oh, I don't dispute that a 42 pounder did much more damage than a 12
>pounder. <g>  What I was trying to get across was that there were a
>standardized and limited number of weapon sizes. You had  the 12, 16 and
>24 pounders for long range and later the carronades (I think they were
>usually 32 pounders), in the British navy. There were other guns, but
>they were rare...standardization was important...it *still* would be
>important in 3,000 years.  Merchant ships mounted the same standard
>sized weapons, so you could fit them into the same firing carrages, use
>the same balls, the same powder loads (more or less), and they were all
>operated the same so a gunner trained on one could pretty much fire any
>of them.

The standard sizes (according to Charles Derrick's "Rise and Progress
of the Royal Navy", 1806) the standard calibres were 3, 6, 9, 12, 18, 24,
32 and 42 pdr cannon and 32 and 64 pdr carronades (see even a dyslexic
like me can spell sometimes <g>). The 3, 6, 9 and 24 pdr cannon were
abandoned in 1743, the 42 pdr in 1781 (it was less effective than the 32
pdr due to ROF) and in 1825 the RN standardised on only 32 pdr cannon
and 64 pdr carronades, with differing barrel lengths depending on the
deck the guns were mounted on (longer barrels on lower decks). The
Carronade was largely abandoned on warships after 1800, its
disadvantages outweighed its advantages in a strict military sense
(most warships would still carry a few, but the main weapon was the
cannon). But it remained a very popular weapon for merchantmen.

>As far as firing at range was concerned, it depended on the situation. 
>In massed fleet actions, the lines closed to very short range and
>pounded with their broadsides, but in individual ship duels there was a
>case to be made for standing off and taking out your opponents masts and
>sails. Of course, individual ship duels were generally between frigates
>(the cruisers of the period), not SOL. I don't think an SOL went
>anywhere on it's own, always part of a squadron.  During the War of
>1812, the super frigate, Constitution, had great success with the
>tactics of maneuver and fire at long range. It was faster than most
>British frigiates (and more heavily armed as well), and her gunners were
>much better shots.  The Constitution would stand off from the British
>ships,  I recall that on a number of occasions there were multiple
>British ships, and fire at their rigging. Once her opponents were dead
>in the water she would move in closer across bow and stern raking them
>with fire until they surrendered.  For our British friends here, we
>American's are pretty proud of the Constitution's accomplishments, but
>she was only a frigate and certainly couldn't have stood in a line
>against your fleet.  I guess you could say she was mainly a commerce
>raider who was lucky not to be caught and defeated by the overwhelming
>British numerical superiority.

Even a dyed in the wool pro RN nut like me can acknowledge that the
Constitution was (and still is, by all accounts) a very fine ship, with a
very fine crew. Our US cousins have every reason to be proud of her.
The main advantage of the Constitution (and the other large frigates
such as Constellation, President et al) was their size, 50 guns as
against the usual RN 36; when the RN deployed their own 50's in
1813-14 the US ships acted a lot more circumspectely. Here is an
example of the advantages the "lesser" naval power can exploit: the
RN with its world wide commitments had chosen to build a large
number of frigates sacrifising individual fighting ability for quantity, where
as the USN without the world wide commitments was able to build for
individual quality, giving them fewer superior ships (a situation similiar
to that of the Japanese during the 2nd WW). The USN could not have
hoped to challange the overall RN command of the sea, but could put
a very serious crimp in it, making it too expensive for the British to fight
them (the "Riskflot" strategy). Interesting the US long range tactic were
in a large part dictated by their own inferiority in boarding actions. The RN
crews held a slight edge due to experience and even if a USN ship won
a boarding action, the crew casualties would have forced her back to port.

Its important to remember that the lessons of the War of 1812 are
likely to still be valid in space even some 3000 years from now.
The dominant Navy is going to have to go for quantity to meet all
its obligations, the lesser navy can afford to go for quality. As long as
the lesser navy sticks to commerce warfare (heres were you want
those damn battlecruisers <g>), it can theoretically make it too costly
for the dominant power to fight it. Lesser Navies will not build battlships
(well the smart ones won't), they'll build large commerce raiders.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
     "It was horrible said S.D. Murphy a witness"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #905
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 2 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 906



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

"Fifth Foreign Legion" Books
Re: [T97#898] Traveller Linguistics
Re: TNE Watercraft
Re: Fifth Foreign Legion Books
Re: Traveller TNE??
RE:QSDS walkthough
FFS, SSDS, & QSDS
Re: Some thoughts on RPG design (long)
oops
New SCout Design Contest
High Guard
Re: New SCout Design Contest
How and Why the T4 Task System?
lost colony?
Re: Fleet & Melee
Re: Traveller TNE??
Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Satellite planets
Solomani/Vilani first contact
BB, BC & Naval Doctrines

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 18:22:56 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: "Fifth Foreign Legion" Books

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I saw *a* book with that "Fifth Foreign Legion" bit on the cover a few
> years back. I liked it. You mean that there are *more*?!

There are three that I know of. Titles are:
"March or Die"
"Honor and Fidelity"
"Cohort of the Damned"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:19:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: [T97#898] Traveller Linguistics

I've always thought that written Vilani should be a syllabary (i.e. not an
alphabet: each character encodes a syllable, whence the name.), maybe in
the same spirit as the Korean Hangul writing system, which seems (from
what little I know of it) very precise, orderly, efficient... very Vilani.
Something like square letter-blocks, each tripartite to indicate the
beginning sound, following sound(s), and tone.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:57:27 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: TNE Watercraft

Jeff Brawley wrote:
> 
> Where could one find those rules you spoke of about watercraft design if
> they were needed.  I am very interested.
> 
> Please help

Jeff, I looked through my Challenge magazines and discovered those wet
navy rules were written for MegaTraveller. My apologies; I would have
bet money they were written for TNE. If you still interested in them,
they can be found in Challenge #53, 54, and 60 (they were published in
three parts).

An additional MT rule set for *early* tech (sailing ships, catapults,
cured hide canoes, primitive reciprocating steam engines, etc.) can be
found in Challenge #61. This last issue also has an adventure in which
the player characters end up on Aramanx/Spinward Marches and, thanks
to Ling Standard Products, mix it up with a TL6 wet navy fleet,
including a nuclear sub, light cruisers and a freaking aircraft
carrier!

Does LSP know how to party or what?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:00:23 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Foreign Legion Books

There were 3 total
March or Die
Honor and Fidelity
the lost and the damned[?]

I am not sure of the actual title of the 3rd one

my copies are buried


The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 22:25:22 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller TNE??

David Smart writes:

>> 3) Watercraft design rules.  None were ever put into print.
>
>Yes, they were. They were spread out amongst 2 or 3 Challenge
>magazines and include, IIRC, steam power and sail as well as
>the design of black powder cannon and submersibles. I've never
>used them so I don't know if there are any glaring errors 
>within them.

   Wrong.  The stuff that appeared in Challenge was created for
MegaTraveller, not TNE.  The author was Terry McInnes, the same guy who
wrote COACC.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 22:27:13 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: RE:QSDS walkthough

I just need to get something straight about this...

> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:34:53 -0700 (MST)
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
> Subject: Re: QSDS walkthrough
> 
> I just went over to David Blustein's rendition of Commander X's qsds
> walkthrough, and it looks quite nice,

Yes he did an excellent job on it, and I thank David for his work.

 except for one thing. This will also
> address other complaints regarding QSDS involving interpolation.
> 
> QSDS started life, lo these many eon's ago (like last March or so ;-) as
> one version of 'FFS Lite', a way to modularize FFS into a table-driven
> design system. The theory is that you build your starship by picking one
> from column A, two from column B, and with parties of 8 or more you get
> Spinal PAWS. 
> 
> The cost reductions of QSDS, as stated clearly in the design system, are
> due to using standardized plug 'n' play componentry. 
> 
> The design for the scout/courier in the walkthrough follows QSDS until it
> comes time for putting in the power plant. Then Cmdr. X interpolated
> between standard components in the power plant tables to arrive at a 133
> Mw powerplant. This isn't kosher...you can only use the powerplants shown
> on the tables, so for the scout courier, you end up with the closest whole
> 10 Mw power rating over 133Mw you can get, by installing a 100, and 2 20
> Mw modules, for a total of 140 Mw. 

WHOA!  I did _not_ do this!  I used  75Mw+50Mw palnts to come up with
125Mw.  Apparently David did not understand something in the
walkthrough(bad student! no biscuit! <g> ), or decided to come up with
the interpolation himself.  I understand that QSDS is a "modular"
system.  One reason I like it is so that I dont have to do equations and
such (I am a typical gamer, very lazy <g>).

Bruce, I thank you for pointing this out to me, I did not notice it the
first time I saw David's page. 

David, I still love your work on the page, it is excellent HTML.  It
might have been something I would do if i had had the time.  But I would
have words with you on IRC, in short, you did good with the page, but
did bad with the power, so........aw ok, I'll give you 1/2 a biscuit! :)

> 
- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:46:20 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: FFS, SSDS, & QSDS

I think this question has been asked before a time or two, but does anyone
have a complete listing of the changes made in the FFS System before the
SSDS and QSDS systems were developed?  I really would like to have these
collected in a single place in case I want to use FFS instead.  I also want
to be able to develop new components for both systems, so any assumptions on
what is included in the various combinations would be helpful too.

If you have such a list compiled, I would like to see it, please just tell
me where it is.  If no one has a complete list, then I'll try and compile
one, please send me privately whatever changes you know for sure were made
and I'll get them all together.

If I can get this help, I might be willing to try and simplify QSDS for the
non-gearheads on the list.  I don't have High Guard or Book 2, but I can try.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg)  Roger Camp,  Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii,  Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 23:25:40 -0500
From: "Bill Beane" <concord-tech@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on RPG design (long)

IG is looking to add new gamer's to the Traveller family.....

I think Thomas has many valid points.....

I hope the IG guys are taking a look at this.....

> No.  It's the job of a scalable system to provide a level for low detail
> which still has *some* foundation in the game system.  As I stated
before:
> I'm new to Traveller and if I'd start to create ships from my imagination
> I probably would add up with stuff incompatible to the Traveller rules.
> Should I decide at a later point that I want more detail I would have
> created a big mess.  My players probably by then are accustomed to those
> ships and to some detail and now -- when they want more -- they have to
> learn that my made-up stuff just doesn't work within the system.
> 
> Not a good approach.  Please note: I'm asking for a simple system for new
> players... you old-time fans probably have no problems winging it.  For
us
> newbies it's just not possible.
> 
> That's the reason why I don't weant to simply make up numbers.  I want to
> start with basic numbers and as soon as my players (and I) get interested
> in more detail I'd like to upgrade to QSDS and if we want even more
detail
> we'd be using SSDS and if we would like to go totally overboard we'd be
> using FFS.  Currently I have nothing to start out with.  Remember: I'm
> looking at this from a newbie's point of view.  Most people on this list
> sadly seem to be too experienced with Traveller to see the problems a
> newbie can have with the current systems.  Sad but true over and over
> again.
> 

Bravo, Thomas.....

It's always nice to see a newbie's perspective.....sometimes I think the
old guard forgets what it was like 15-20 years ago.....


Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 23:46:21 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: oops

My previous post was in regards to the "Design a New First Contact Scout" contest

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 23:45:37 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: New SCout Design Contest

Well, it is now Feb 1, 1997. 
Who won?
Let's see those designs, the curiousity is killin' me!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 23:02:39 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: High Guard

As per my previous post, if anyone has the High Guard system in electronic
format, I would like to see a copy of it.  I've seen the guantlet thrown
down and I want to respond by picking it up and I'll try to come up with a
design system that will work with T4 and be as simple as HG.  The only
problem is that I don't have HG.  As a TNE and T4 kinda guy, I really don't
want HG, but I would like to see what I'm trying to do before I try to do
it.  If some of you who want a HG style system would eMail me privately and
describe what you want, I'd be happy to send you the first drafts and come
listen attentively to all your suggestions.  Thanks.

A sucker for those in need, 

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg)  Roger Camp,  Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii,  Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 18:23:56 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: New SCout Design Contest

At 23:45 1/02/1997 +0000, you wrote:
>Well, it is now Feb 1, 1997. 
>Who won?
>Let's see those designs, the curiousity is killin' me!

Hey spare a though for us out here in the colonies. We're
a good 22 hours ahead, so its been Feb 1 for awhile :*)

But seriously, I'd imagine that there may be the odd
design or two to look at, so determining the winner
might take a while.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
     "It was horrible said S.D. Murphy a witness"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:08:08 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: How and Why the T4 Task System?

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the T4 task system. Why was this
system adopted?
I would be especially interested in how the combat rules were developed.
How were the rules for range and autofire developed, and why?

Harry the Signatureless.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:27:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: lost colony?

In mail you write:

>>has anyone considered the
>>possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>>who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)
>
>         I love it!  Make brilliant sense in an Erich von Daniken sort of
> way.  Fits the timeline, fits Terran history, it explains the names, and
> hilariously, also provides a catalyst for the Solomani's rise to
> civilization that would drive most Solomani Party members absolutely
> apeshit if word got out..:)

Here's a really *sick*, *twisted* lost colony scenario that occured to
me when coming up with the scenario outline for the above bit.

Assume that some of the humans Grandfather transplanted were given
actual *training* and education by his children. That may even be *why*
he went after them. So they *started* with a low level of civilization
and legends about the "Gods".

Given Grandfather's anger, he'd naturally have to go after these humans
as well. Some of the grandchildren would trained them managed to send
them out of reach using a sort of cross between jump drive and
Grandfather's "gates". But not before Grandfather sent some
semi-autonomous robots after them, but due to the experimental nature
of the gate, the robots came out a sector or so away from the humans.
But the robots have some idea of where the humans are.

So the robots have to set up shop on a planet and make more ships and
robots so that they can find and wipe out the humans. Building the
infrastructure takes a few thousand years.

Meanwhile the humans establish themselves on the worlds of a cluster of
a dozen close stars. They quickly gain slower than light travel between
their systems (a thousand or two years). And they advance even more in
technology. 

Finally their expansion meets the wave of robots who want to wipe them
out. Battles are fought, one side or the other pulls back to regroup
and rebuild and then expand again years later. So the war goes down the
centuries. And both sides trade with aliens and sometimes ally with
them. 

Finally a human allies with the robots and helps them convince the
leaders of the humans that peace is possible. The human leaders show up
for the signing of the treaty and are wiped out along with most of the
colonial fleets. 

A major ship escapes and returns home only to find that the colonies
have been attacked as well. They organize an evacuation of the few
survivors using any ships that will fly, jump capable or not. 

They then try to find their planet of origin (Earth) which they have
dim legends about, while evading the robots and fighting only when they
have to. 

They were far to rimward, but are approaching the Solomani Sphere...
Your players are making contact. It'd be even better if you can get
another group to play the refugee fleet.

Of course, they'd use slightly different rules, and so would the
robots. :-)

For anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, the above is putting a well
known SF TV program into Traveller... Battlestar Galactica! 
(Are there any RPG rules for it?) The robots are the Cylons. The
refugees are the Colonials. 

Hey, I *warned* you that it was sick and twisted. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:52:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fleet & Melee

In mail you write:

>>Ok but what about all those borders in hard armor???
>
> I'm glad you asked that! Herealso in the same case at Gridlore Arms, you
> will find the 10mm snub pistol.. the HEAP round will give a Damage of 8.

Recoil is a big problem there. I'd use the Acme Industries Fusion
Lance. 

The Fusion Lance originated when a crewman on a salvage ship didn't
have a weapon handy and grabbed one of the salvage tools. The tool was
descended from the TL-7 "thermal lance" and the TL-7 "plasma arc
torch". It it was intended for *quickly burning thru superdense hull
plates and bulkheads. The "flame" is adjustable from a few cm to
several meters. And it cuts thru superdense faster than a chainsaw cuts
thru logs! Naturally, it cuts thru battle dress almost as fast as you
can swing it. 

The weapon version has a flame limited to only a meter, so as to make
accidently cutting the hull less likely. And they have limited
duration. Only about 5-10 minutes. But it can be used in "bursts".

The lance looks like a 2 meter length of thick pipe (about 10 cm) which
some cables and a backpack with quick release buckles (as you want to
get rid of it *fast* when it runs empty). 

This *should* be a possible device, but will the rules allow it?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 17:59:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller TNE??

In mail you write:

> 1)  A new star system generation sequence.  The original version that
> appeared in Book 6: Scouts was OK (and in some ways brilliant), but had
> some big flaws.  TNE addressed some of the flaws, but in light of all
> the new information we have about the way the Universe works, even the
> revised B6 rules are now broken beyond repair.  This is an area where IG
> can make T4 a superior product to TNE, if they are willing to do what is
> necessary and don't just reprint B6 in another form.

I've often wished for such a design sequence! But I've never tracked
down all the data necessary to figure some of the more basic things. L-(

> 4) Better robot design rules.  Your typical Robot should not weigh
> several hundred of kilos and consume more power in a day than many small
> towns in the 20th century do in three.  Another area where T4 can
> surpass TNE.

Frankly, the stereotypical "human sized and shaped" robot (C3PO, for
example) is going to be *weaker* than a human, unless made of
"unobtanium".  

You see, motors and the powerpacks for them weigh more than the
equivalent body tissues. And bone is *stronger* than steel. You see,
bone is a *very* advanced composite material, developed over a biliion
years of stress testing. :-)

So the robot *will* be heavier, or it will be weaker. Or the material
it is made of will be *so* superior to anything we have that they'd
make noticeable differences in other areas like weapons and vehicles.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:20:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)

In mail you write:

> With respect to other measurement systems, like calendars,
> planet-locked cultures normally choose dating systems based on the
> appearant movements of satellites (like the Moon) or stars (like the
> Sun). Most historical Terran calendars are Solar or Lunar. (I'm sure
> someone out there can find one that isn't, so ... :-)

One of the Mayan calendar cycles is 260 days long. It's composed of two
sub-cycles one is 20 days (the Mayans used base 20) and the other is 13
days.

> It seems to me that a mature interstellar culture would create a
> calendar based on some phenomenon that is easily observable from
> every world in the area (subsector, sector, domain, or empire-wide).
> What interstellar phenomenon do we know of that can be easily
> observed *from planetary orbit or higher* in multiple star systems
> with TL-9+ technology? 

Pulsars have relatively constant periods, but they are *way* to short.
(seconds or less) The only other periodic phenomenon observable over
wide distances is a a Cepheid variable. But they have periods depending
on their mass. So you have a *wide* range to choose from.

But there's a slight problem. Speed of light lag means that every star
sees the Cepheid you pick at a *different* part of its cycle. Now add
in relativity and the fact that the stars are moving at different
speeds. "At the same time" is a *meaningless* concept when dealing
with places any distance apart.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:09:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

In mail you write:

>>has anyone considered the
>>possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
>>who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)
>
>         I love it!  Make brilliant sense in an Erich von Daniken sort of
> way.  Fits the timeline, fits Terran history, it explains the names, and
> hilariously, also provides a catalyst for the Solomani's rise to
> civilization that would drive most Solomani Party members absolutely
> apeshit if word got out..:)

You know, this could make a *wonderful* adventure for the right time
period. The players stumble across some old Vilani records of a missing
expedition that was checking out a clue found in some Ancient
artifacts. What really gets their attention is that adjusted for star
movement, the target looks to be somewhere in an area that included Sol.

Then one of the researchers forgets to limit *which* databases to
search for other references to the crew and ship. One of the partial
matches that turns up is some Sumerian mythology. This leads to one of
those "No, it can't be... can it?" moments.

Meanwhile, archeologists on Terra have found some *very* strange
artifacts at a dig and cryptic references that may point to another
site... SolSec is *not* pleased with some of the possibilities, but
they support the research because if there *was* Vilani contact, they
want to be able to grab the evidence!

But the researchers don't like the secrecy imposed. And they are upset
about the comments their colleagues keep making about their silly
"Danikenite" theories. Which tempts them even more to let the secret
info slip.

Will one group find the proof first? Will they run into each other at
some remote site? The possibilities are endless. And more fun than
"Raiders of the Lost Ark".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 23:38:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Satellite planets

[re-mailed to you from rec.arts.sf.science]
[the original seemed to come from nyrath@clark.net]

Martyn Fogg (mfogg@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
: An essential paper for budding world-builders can be found in this week's 
: Nature.
: 
: D.M. Williams, J.F. Kasting and R.A. Wade, "Habitable moons around 
: extrasolar giant planets," Nature, 385, 234-235 (1997).

Excellent! I'll add it to the worldbuilder's bibliography
at my web site, along side the references to marvelous
papers by a certain Mr. Fogg.


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+
| WINCHELL CHUNG                http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html 
|
| Nyrath the nearly wise                                    nyrath@clark.net 
|
+---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ: 
]--------------------------+
|  /_\  | I'm nobody. Nobody at all. But the secrets of the universe don't   
|
| <(*)> | mind. They reveal themselves to nobodies who care.                 
|
|/_/|\_\|                                                                    
|
| //|\\ |                                                                    
|
+///|\\\+--------------------------------------------------------------------
+
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:24:30 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Solomani/Vilani first contact

(Extract from a lecture by Prof Alana Shang at the University
of Sylea 219-112)

History tells us that the first contact between the Solomani
and Vilani was around Barnards Star in -2,422 (2096AD in the
Solomani system). But is this the whole truth? Terra lies just
2 parsecs outside the limits of the Ziru Sirka, a mere 6.52
light years; Gashidda, the provincial capital, just 22.82 light
years away. The Vilani absorbed the Vegans in -4,404 (114AD)
and that the Ziru Sirka had stopped expansion by -4,000 (518AD).
Is it reasonable to believe that for approximately 2,000 years
the Vilani and Solomani remained blisfully unware of each other?
That for 2,000 years not one curious Vilani trader ventured
over the border, that for 2,000 years not one ship misjumped to
Terra, that during the conquest of the Vegans not one scout
ventured out to check? It would seem very unlikely that Vilani
eyes did not look on Terra at least once before 2096AD.

However, is ths significant? Probably not. The Solomani for
most of this period would have appeared to be just another
primitve minor race, their industrial revolotion did not
begin until about -2,870 (1784AD). Who amongst the Vilani
could have predicted that over just 300 years the Solomani
would leap from Tech level 3 to Tech level 9? Some have
claimed that the Vilani are in fact responsible for the first
Solomani civilisations (based on a superficial similiarity
between Vilani and Cuniform), but this is unlikely. The
Summerians achived their civilisation in about -7,520 (3000BC)
and are clearly the decendents of a long line of predecessors
on Terra. The Vilani did not develop jump 2 technology until
- -5,430 (912BC) and did not reach the Solomani rim until much
later. It is likely that the Vilani did visit Terra before
2096AD; and if one were to do a thorough search of the records
of the Argushiigi Admegulasha Bilanidin one might just find
a footnote recording Terra; but it is doubtful that the Vilani
would have shown much interest in the primitive Solomani.

But before one totally dismisses this line of thought, let us
look at the other side of the equation. Were the Solomani
aware of the Vilani? At first this might seem like a ludicrous
statement. How could the prestellar Solomani have any idea of
the mighty civilisation that lay just beyond their doorstep?
They certainly could not have contacted it, the Vilani appear
not to have contacted them (at least not in any meaningful
sense). The answer comes in one word, radio. The Solomani could
have heard the Vilani. Farfetched you say? On the face of it yes.
Vilani radio transmissions were not aimed at Terra, just
background noise in all the millions of other radio signals that
exist in the universe; they were in a totally alien language,
using totally alien protocols; surely any Solomani who acidentally
stumbled across these signals would not have realised their
significance. This is the conventional wisdom, but my recent
research has shown another interesting possiblility. There existed
on Terra during their 20th Century an organisation called the Setii.
A brotherhood of Solomani astronmers who were actively searching
the heveans for just such signals! It is inconceivable that these
Setii could have missed so many worlds so close, but one can find
no record of any such success; in fact one can find virtually no
record of the Setii at all. All we know of them is that they were
initially funded by various governments of the prestellar Solomani.
But they abruptly terminated the program in -2,321 (1995AD). One
has to ask why? Why did the Solomani suddenly stop looking, why did
the governments of Terra suddenly start dissmissing the Setii as
quacks? One has to ask, did the Setii find what they were lookng for?

 [Prof Shang continued her lecture detailing the evidence she had
  amassed on the Setii and other later indications that the
  Solomani may have been aware of the Vilani from the 21st Century]

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
     "It was horrible said S.D. Murphy a witness"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun,  2 Feb 97 12:00:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: BB, BC & Naval Doctrines

    Anyone own a copy of Avalon Hill's Jutland game?  It allows you to refight
the battle of Jutland using the Battleships and Battlecruisers of the time.
Believe me, you DO NOT want to get a Battlecruiser into a slugging match with a
Battleship, the Battlecruiser dies QUICK!

    Let's go back and look at the history folks.  Battleships evolved as part
of Naval arms race.  The Germans built theirs with more slightly more armor in
response to the British "fear" of not having enough Battleships and thus trying
to match the Germans at a two to one ratio.  Almost bankrupted Britain at one
point, if you believe to opposition politicos. ;)
    The British invented the Battlecruiser not to take on Battleships per se
but because they were afraid the Germans would manage to get fast Cruisers out
to sea to go Commerce raiding.  A very legitimate concern for an island nation
unable to feed it's self.  Battlecruisers were intended to track down such
raiding cruisers and have such superior armorment as to finish them off
quickly.
    This fit in perfectly with the British Naval tactics, strategy and
philosphy which was to chase down the enemy and bring them to battle.  The
British always built for as much speed as it was possible it design in,
endurance too.  The Germans were more worried about maintaining a fleet in
being to keep their coastlines safe.  What robbed these ships of a real use in
WWI was the submarine which proved so effective so early on.

    Navies are NOT designed in a vacuum, ships are built to fulfill objectives
of a Strategic, Opperational and Tactical nature in accordance with Naval
doctrine.  If your Navy believes in tracking it's enemies down and bringing
them to battle as soon as possible the ships it designs are going to be
different from that of a Navy which believes the primary purpose of a Navy is
to defend worlds.
    Navies also respond to technological advances and inovations.  One of the
important new weapons the British (sailing navy of 1814 if memory serves on the
year) had at Trafalger was the Carronade which flung massive ammounts of metal
at enemy ships extremely fast for the times.  We would not have or need the
Aegus Cruisers of today if missile technology had evolved as it has.

    What we need to do is determine what the Navy of the Third Imperium is
intended to do and THAT will determine how it's ships are design and for what
purposes.  Massive 1,000,000 ton ships may not be terribly efficient in battle
terms but they make a lot of sense in other terms.  Like carrying Marine
divisions, LOTS of fighters and small craft, impressing lower tech worlds and
so on.  So let's ask this question...

    What are the duties of the Imperial Navy?

Stephen

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #906
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 2 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 907



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: High Guard
RE: Battleships, Batttlecruisers, and the Imperial Navy
Re: BB, BC & Naval Doctrines
Re: New SCout Design Contest
Re: QSDS walkthrough
Classic Traveller Auction #8 (2 Days Left)
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Traveller Auction: Update #4
Re: Traveller Auction: Update #4
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #906
The law and bribery?
Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)
Re: Questions
Geonee Timeframe
Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 08:10:46 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: RE: High Guard

I have never gotten any farther with an electronic Version of  High 
Guard, than a basic ship design spreadsheet. but I have retrograded 
several ship designs to High Guard from TNE .

has anyone else tried doing retrograded designs? or has anybody done 
rules additions to High Guard?


The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 08:07:42 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: RE: Battleships, Batttlecruisers, and the Imperial Navy

Doug Berry and Steve Charlton did some excellent writeups on the 
Imperial and Solomani Navies, and their duties/doctrines. they were
posted to the TML last year. and I have added them to the free trader 
Beowulf page.

I tend to design Battle Cruisers with Battleship size Guns, and 
Cruiser Agility/Armor

The battle between the Bismarck and the Hood is a good example of why 
you dont fight a battleship head on with a battle cruiser
and its also a great example of the 12= Ship Vaporized Critical!
although part of that can be attributed to a desin flaw in her armor.



The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:02:31 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: BB, BC & Naval Doctrines

s.johnson107@genie.com wrote:
> 
>     What are the duties of the Imperial Navy?

In my campaigns (as far as the pre-Rebellion Imperium is concerned),
the Imperial Navy has the following responsibilities:

1) Respond quickly and decisively to any external threat.
2) Maintain close watch over planetary conflict internal
   to the Imperium (i.e. ensure no nukes are used, trade
   wars don't get out of hand, Articles of War are adhered
   to, etc.)
3) Provide support to system/subsector forces as necessary.
   (piracy suppression, show the flag, etc.)
4) Protect those assets of the Imperium designated as critical.
   This would be naval depots, Imperial military bases, worlds
   classified as Imperial reserves, Imperial prisons (the
   Ministry of Justice would oversee these), etc.

Given the above, the Imperial Navy consists mostly of fast cruiser
squadrons (i.e. high Jump capability) with only a few BatRons
(battleship/dreadnought squadrons) per sector. These BatRons are
assigned to critical subsectors only with some sectors having only
CruRons assigned to them. I can see some battlecruisers being
designed and assigned to potential trouble spots to "slow" down
any troublemakers until the battlewagons show up (I never got
around to designing any, though). The Azhanti High Lightning-class
cruiser is adequate for this role but the Gionetti-class cruisers,
with their Jump 5 rating and 5G acceleration (High Guard), excel
at it.

Any "close watch" situations are covered by *many* smaller ships,
such as SDBs, planetary monitors, fighters, etc., the very numbers
of which serve to more effectively monitor the situation while
allowing any overwhelming force to be harassed until some of the
fast cruisers and BCs could respond.

Gee...kinda sounds like the 5th Frontier War, huh? :-)

In Milieu 0, the Navy has a more "expansionist" role so high
Jump, fast response warships become even more critical. Slower
battleships (assuming they're slower) will take on a more
supportive/monitor role. A fast cruiser would definitely be a
very sought after command.

BTW, I've said in the past that fighters are useless as a
primary weapon platform but I'm resurrecting a role for
fighters...that of a highly mobile, independent weapons
platform.

No, I haven't lost it. :-)

I'm allowing fighter squadrons to coordinate their fire in order
to concentrate their lasers/missiles on common targets, emulating
the effects of a battery through strafing runs. With the
communications possible in Traveller and the length of time for
each combat turn (30 minutes), coordination would be easy. The
problem is they have to get in close for volume of fire to be
effective.  Simply take the number of weapons in the squadron
and convert them to a single battery. Casualties to the squadron
reduce the effectiveness of the battery. This also allows fighters
to take on a standoff anti-missile defense role. Admittedly,
at the speed of combat, most fighters will get only one strafing
run but they can then move on to another target, effectively
acting as a roving pack of wolves, adding joyful chaos to any
engagement! Makes carriers a very mean ship.

The above idea was actually taken from an old CT article in an
out of print gaming magazine. For those of you who have played
classic Traveller during the last decade or so, look to the old
material you may have. Alot of the questions that are now coming
up were answered some years ago.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:00:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: New SCout Design Contest

On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Mused wrote:

> Well, it is now Feb 1, 1997. 
> Who won?
> Let's see those designs, the curiousity is killin' me!

Wildstar is working on it.  There were a lot of entries at the last 
minute, and he's having to verify all those designs.  I just got a mail 
from him that he's still working on it.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:38:09 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: QSDS walkthrough

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

> The cost reductions of QSDS, as stated clearly in the design system, are
> due to using standardized plug 'n' play componentry. 

You're right, if we want to account for the cost of the custom power
plant I installed, the discounted cost becomes MCr37.795 (an increase
in cost of MCr 3.325). Though, a stricter interpretation of the rules
might disallow the discount altogether. ;-)

As a referee, I like to give the design discount to standard designs
(as opposed to giving the discount for simply using standard
modules), since standard designs produced in quantity deserve a
discount. Your mileage may vary. :-)

 
> The design for the scout/courier in the walkthrough follows QSDS until it
> comes time for putting in the power plant. Then Cmdr. X interpolated
> between standard components in the power plant tables to arrive at ...

Actually, during Bill Prankard's walkthrough, we installed a 50 Mw
power plant and a 75 Mw power plant (with a combined volume of 4.5
tons, and a combined fuel use of 0.7 tons.

I used T4's QSDS while following Bill's discussion. When it came time
to tally volume, power, cost, and area, I found 0.3 tons of waste
space in my notes.

After that walkthrough, I checked my figures again (using T4) and
came up with the same discrepancy. Looking at the completed design, I
could only find two items that could fill the 0.3 ton void, TL-13
Military Controls or a bigger power plant.

My goal is to reproduce a design that results in a Universal Ship
Profile (USP) that matches the one given in T4, if possible.

So, since I wanted to keep the design at TL-12, I chose to add the
spare tonnage to the power plant and see what happened.

My power plant requirement became 4.8 tons volume, 0.7 tons fuel, and
between 125 Mw and 175 Mw power. The only way I could find a way to
duplicate the design shown in T4 was to make a custom power plant. If
there's another way to produce the design using standard components
and still duplicate what's in T4, I am very interested in seeing it.

BTW, clarifications have been added to my web page. I figure if I
(basically) satisfy the 500 to 600 souls here, I've done well. :-)

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 17:12:39 GMT
From: sdollar@goodnet.com (Stuart L. Dollar)
Subject: Classic Traveller Auction #8 (2 Days Left)

A friend of mine has the following Classic Traveller Items available
for Auction:

1) Traveller Boxed Set:
Books 1-3
1st Edition (1977), 5th Printing
Very Good Condition

$25:  34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
$20:  ross@ican.net

2) Traveller Boxed Set
Books 1-3
1st Edition (1977), 9th Printing
Very Good

$25:  ross@ican.net

3) Book 4, Mercenary
1st Edition (1978), 2nd Printing
Very Good
There are 2 copies of this one, in very similar condition.
(Collectors:  For those of you who are unaware, this printing had a
distinctive yellow stripe, instead of the burnt orange/brown of later
printings)

$15:  dmalnati@usa.net or dmalnati@absi.com
$10:  kieschef@cowen.com
$5:  34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu

4) Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society #6
Very Good

$5:  caw@wizard.net/caw@intercon.com/chrisweuve@usa.net 


Here are the rules for the auction:

1)  The first phase of the auction will run from today, Monday,
January 20, 1997 through 1200 AM, MST, February 3, 1997.  

At the end of the first phase of bidding, the top 2 bidders (3 in the
case of Mercenary) will be notified by e-mail to submit a final bid.
They will have until 1200 AM, MST, February 7, 1997 to submit the
final bid.  Winning bidders will be the person who bids highest.  He
will pay $1 more than the next highest bid regardless of what he bid.
For example:

Bidder A bids $17
Bidder B bids $14
Bidder A wins the item and pays $15 ($14+$1)

2)  Bid prices do not include shipping

3)  Minimum Bid increments are $1

4)  Payment will be taken by check or money order in US$ only.
Payment by check will require a 2 week holding period for the check to
clear.  Money orders will be shipped the following day.

5) Bids will be accepted by e-mail only to:
sdollar@goodnet.com

6) Updates to the auction will be posted daily to USENet and the list.

7) Please indicate which copy of the Traveller Boxed Set you are
bidding on.

Thanks,
Stu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 18:25 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

In-Reply-To: <32F2E1F5.2CD9@siscom.net>

> >OK, taking as canon that all these Vilani personal and world names (and
> >maybe other parts of the language) strongly resemble various Akkadian
> >and Sumerian names from Terra's history, has anyone considered the
> >possibility that Sumer is a lost Vilani colony?  (Or maybe a group
> >who wanted to run a _long way_ from the First Empire?)
> 
>    This theory only holds water if you find ziggurats on Vland.  

Actually, ISTR them popping up all over the place in old Traveller pics...
> 
>    Of course this plotline was used by Battlestar Galactica to explain
> the ancient Egyptians and Greeks.  Anyone remember the opening
> monologue?

I've heard BG could be coming back...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:59:36 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction: Update #4

Here's another stab at a Traveller Auction.

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $12.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $7.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $5.00  beck@mail.all-mail.net

MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $5.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com
- -----

That's it for the present. I will post updates every day or so.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:59:16 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction: Update #4

 
Here's another stab at a Traveller Auction.

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $12.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $7.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $5.00  beck@mail.all-mail.net

MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $5.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com
- -----

That's it for the present. I will post updates every day or so.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:01:22 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #906

>    Anyone own a copy of Avalon Hill's Jutland game?  It allows you to refight
  Our university club has a copy, I believe.
  Otherwise, concise and a good primer, with notes;
>raiding cruisers and have such superior armorment as to finish them off
>quickly.
  Agreed - others have clarified that this may have changed a few decades later.

>being to keep their coastlines safe.  What robbed these ships of a real use in
>WWI was the submarine which proved so effective so early on.
  Actually, no.  Subs and torpedo boats were tasked with coastal defence - the
purpose of the High Seas Fleet was to deter the British from interfering with
German overseas aspirations by threat of mutual destruction of battlefleets.

>different from that of a Navy which believes the primary purpose of a Navy is
>to defend worlds.
  A very good point.  Do SDB's and battlerider/tender combos still work in T4?

>year) had at Trafalger was the Carronade which flung massive ammounts of metal
>at enemy ships extremely fast for the times.
  Carronades are actually rather low velocity weapons, which is why they're
light and cheap enough to be very attractive for merchants wanting some
heavy iron - neat for turning boats of Malay pirates into rapidly sinking 
abbatoirs.  The actual broadside guns themselves were built for the highest
velocity practical given metallurgy and gun accuracy in 1805.

>    What we need to do is determine what the Navy of the Third Imperium is
>intended to do and THAT will determine how it's ships are design and for what
>purposes.  Massive 1,000,000 ton ships may not be terribly efficient in battle
>terms but they make a lot of sense in other terms.  Like carrying Marine
>divisions, LOTS of fighters and small craft, impressing lower tech worlds and
>so on.  So let's ask this question...
>
>    What are the duties of the Imperial Navy?
  Hear, hear!  What are the roles they're trying to fill?  What are
the extents and priorities of these tasks?  I hope somebody has the
time and resources to work this out.
        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:51:16 +0100
From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
Subject: The law and bribery?

There is some things that i want to wrinkle out concerning the law in
traveller. The rules simply states that it is easier to bribe someone at
level 10 than it is at level 3 for example. Or as it is stated in the rules:

"Bribery is generally a Difficult task on a moderate law world, and gets
one level easier for each level of higher law, and one level harder for
each level of lower law."

So if i wanted to bribe someone and fail i should try at Law level 1 world!?!

What is this? Am i wrong to assume that higher law means tougher law system
and harsher punishments? Could someone please explain this to me.. as if i
was a five year old.  :)

	Goran Sjoberg

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:49:35 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems (was: G or not G update)

Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net> asked:
>
> Why would the reborn Sylea use Terran measures, other than for
> player convinence?

Because the Third Imperium is using the Second Imperium to establish its
legitimacy. If you don't have some of the same cultural references (such as
language/measurement), it becomes harder to establish  believable
authority.

- -Dom Mooney-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:49:32 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: Questions

The whole fuel issue poses interesting strategic problems - I recently
tried (as an experiment) to build a tanker capable of refuelling up to 4
Jump 4 Cruisers in the 50-80 kTe range, and capable of operating with the
fleet (jumpwise). This resulted in a 400,000 Te Tanker (!) capable of one 4
parsec jump. One big, expensive, beast....

It did give the squadron the ability for 2  parsec stand off raids though.

(The 400kTe may be a bit big, but I was operating with High Guard TL13 limits)

- -Dom Mooney-


- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:06:57 -0400
From: Christian Razukas <chrisraz@clark.net>
Subject: Geonee Timeframe

A remember that a TML'r posted a URL for his or her timeline of the Geonee.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

In haste, cr

"Who's ever written the great work about the immense effort required in
order NOT to create?  Intensity without mastery...the obsessiveness of the
utterly passive...and could it be that in this passivity I shall find my
freedom?"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 23:03:22 UT
From: "Harry McGowan" <AL_THE_MAD@msn.com>
Subject: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

I am currently embarking on a traveller based pbem game.
Basic concept is you control a planet that has achieved jump technology. You 
set out to explore, and colonise, or conquer.
Your starting ships are based on your population, which gives credits to buy 
ships with.

We use traveller rule concerning ship design and jump times etc.

We, to make it more fun, are using faster ship building rules and larger ship 
types, up to 1,000,000 tons.

As a starting preferance I have informed the GM that I would like to have all 
my battleships "carried" in jump to the destination system in open frame hull 
ships. I also whent for mobile assault platforms, massive jump capable 
stations, a bit like the death star, just not as impresive. Along with system 
defences like orbital weapon platforms.

I have ships that are 1,000,000 tons in size have jump 2 G 1, they are used to 
jump into a system carrying 3000 15 ton fighters and up to 500,000 tons of 
other ships docked or clamped to the hull.
+'s for this
No need for jump drives on battle cruisers, more room for high G performance
More room for extra weapons, thus making my ships tougher than my opponents of 
equivalent tonnage.
- -'s are that
dependant on carrier ship, carrier ship will be expensive to buy, so I will 
have less ships.

Other options I have considered are
Laying siege to a planet by mining its orbit, done by providing my 15 ton 
fighters with jump drives (which is great value for tonnage) and no laser 
turrets, instead have mine racks.

Jump 3000+ fighters into system, 1/4 will have lasers and provide a screen for 
the mine layers. What this achieves is cutting off a planets ship building 
capabilities, unnerving population, causing control problems for government.

Other options, are to use ships to tow asteroids into a planetary system and 
drive them into surface after containing system defences. This would be quite 
awful, causing tectonic clashes, and destroying a great deal of casualties, 
effectively neutralising a planet, especialy useful if a planet cannot be 
controled, too near enemy reinforcements, or took too many casualties during 
initial assault on system.
 
What I need are tactics involving these basic ships
Planet :
Yurst          7B4943
Population : 1,100,000,000
Initial Revenue : 5,500,000 MCr
Weekly Revenue : 11,000 MCr
Ship Yard Capacity : 33,500 Tons
Max Jump : 2
Max Jump (500 ton or under) : 3
Max Manoeuvre : 3
Weapons Available : Missile Racks, Pulse Laser, Beam Laser, Meson Guns
Defences Available : Hull Armour, Sandcasters, Nuclear Dampers

Ships : (As requested. If you want anything else let me know.)

Battle Carrier (1,000,000 Tons)
Open structure
Jump-2, Manoeuvre-1
Crew : 2605 + 3000 Fighter Pilots
Cargo : 7000 Tons
Computer-7
Weapons : None
Fuel : 100,000 Tons above minimum
Hangers : 3,000 Fighters with launch tube, 500,000 Tons other ships.
Cost : 287181 MCr

Battle Carrier (100,000 Tons)
Open structure
Jump-2, Manoeuvre-1
Crew : 265 + 300 Pilots
Computer-6
Weapons : None
Fuel : 10,000 Tons above minimum
Hangers : 300 Fighters with launch tube, 50,000 Tons other ships.
Cost : 28768 MCr

Fighter (15 Tons)
Wedge structure
Jump-3, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 1
Computer-1
Weapons : 3 Beam Lasers
Cost : 12.38 MCr
Options :
3 Missile/Bomb Racks instead of Lasers. Cost : 11.63 MCr

Defence Station (10,000 tons)
Sphere structure
Jump-0, Manoeuvre-1
Crew : 170 + 500 Optional Troops
Computer-4
Weapons : Type A Primary Meson Gun
9 100 ton missile rack bays.
40 triple beam laser turrets
40 triple missile rack turrets
10 triple sandcaster turrets
200 ton magazine (may be used for bombing/mining)
Cost : 3391.5 MCr

Assault Station (100,000 tons)
Sphere structure
Jump-1, Manoeuvre-1
Crew : 1426 + 500 Fighter Pilots + 5000 Optional Troops
Computer-6
Weapons : Type B Primary Meson Gun
99 100 ton missile rack bays
400 triple beam laser turrets
400 triple missile rack turrets
10 triple sandcaster turrets
2000 ton magazine (may be used for bombing/mining)
Armour : 10 point hull armour
5 point nuclear dampers
Hangers : 500 fighters with launch tube.
Cost : 29059 MCr

Mine Layer (100 tons)
Wedge structure
Jump-3, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 2
Computer-1
Weapons : 1 Missile Rack Triple Turret
25 Ton Mine Magazine
Cost : 48.5 MCr

Courier (100 tons)
Wedge Structure
Jump-3, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 2
Computer-1
Weapons : 1 Triple Turret containing 2 Lasers, 1 Sandcaster
Cargo : 25 tons
Cost : 48.25

Asteroid Carrier (5000 tons)
Open Structure
Jump-3, Manoeuvre-3 (without asteroid)
Jump-1, Manoeuvre-1 (with asteroid)
Crew : 18
Computer-4
Notes : Can carry an asteroid of up to 5000 tons.
Cost : 2080 MCr

Cruiser (10000 tons)
Closed Structure
Jump-0, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 136
Computer-4
Weapons : 10 100 ton Missile Rack Bays
90 Laser Triple Turrets
400 ton magazine (may be used for bombing/mining)
Armour : 10 point hull armour
3 point nuclear dampers
Cost : 3179 MCr

Hvy Cruiser (50000 tons)
Closed Structure
Jump-0, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 757 + 500 optional troops
Computer-5
Weapons : Type B Primary Meson Gun
49 100 ton Missile Rack Bays
450 Laser Triple Turrets
1500 ton magazine (may be used for bombing/mining)
Armour : 10 point hull armour
5 point nuclear dampers
Cost : 16997 MCr

Battleship (100000 tons)
Closed Structure
Jump-0, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 1436 + 100 Fighter pilots + 2000 optional troops
Computer-6
Weapons : Type B Primary Meson Gun
99 100 ton Missile Rack Bays
900 Laser Triple Turrets
3000 ton magazine (may be used for bombing/mining)
Armour : 15 point hull armour
10 point nuclear dampers
Cost : 32772 MCr

Frigate (1000 tons)
Closed Structure
Jump-0, Manoeuvre-3
Crew : 15
Computer-5
Weapons : 100 ton Missile Rack Bay
10 Laser Triple Turrets
Armour : 10 point hull armour
5 point nuclear dampers
Cost : 573 MCr

If anyone actually spent time reading all this, well i'm impressed, thanks all 
for the help and advice in advance.
Bearing in mind I cannot respond to anything untill I hear of it at my home 
system. That will make the game very interesting...
So response tactics, harrasing tactics, and all out nastiness are required.

Thanx
Alastair McGowan

AL_THE_MAD@msn.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #907
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 3 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 908



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: lost colony?
Re: NAH Re:  Combat agility & missiles in T4
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: The law and bribery?
TravLang list is up!
HIWG Sites
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Supernovas & Neutron Stars
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??
Re: Measurement Systems
QSDS Discount
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Tech Levels
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:36:04 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: lost colony?

At 02:27 AM 2/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>They were far to rimward, but are approaching the Solomani Sphere...
>Your players are making contact. It'd be even better if you can get
>another group to play the refugee fleet.
>
>Of course, they'd use slightly different rules, and so would the
>robots. :-)
>
>For anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, the above is putting a well
>known SF TV program into Traveller... Battlestar Galactica! 
>(Are there any RPG rules for it?) The robots are the Cylons. The
>refugees are the Colonials. 
>
>Hey, I *warned* you that it was sick and twisted. 
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

And paralleling a route with minor variations that I have begun to take
within a few days of acquiring Fusion, Fire & Steel (a very dangerous book).

Variant aspects.

In the war between Grandfather and his children, Grandfather died and a few
of the children survived, injured and very very concious of their mortality.
They became the Imperious Leaders, which always appeared to be some organic
life form jacked into the base ships. They are now very paranoid. Of all the
former servant speciies, Aslan, Vargr, K'Kree, Hiver and Humanity; they see
their former human servants as the most dangerous. Humans are too
unpredictable, uncontrollable. 

The 'cylons' are not mechanical men. The surviving Children have fallen back
on the Droyne as the perferred servants, and begun to enhance them
cybernetically (knew I would find a way to sneak that section of FF&S in).

The Cylon-Droyne are not interested in expanding or developing; the war with
Grandfather made them very defensive, concerned with maintaining their
safety and security; so they go hunting humans only when and where humans
have developed sufficiently to present a threat. 

The PCs would be part of one such human civilization that had become
perceived as a threat and must help defend or find allies to help against
the Cylon-Droyne.

I figure this would be a great setup for those who like the military side of
the game. Lots of space battles, planetary incursions, raids behind enemy
lines and such like adventures. Area would be in the classic Spinward
Marches area, so I could exploit the maps and just alter the
description/alliances.

Stacked about here on diskette somewhere are notes for Traveller:Dune,
Traveller:UFO, Traveller:Invader, Traveller:Above & Beyond, Traveller:
Federation! and Traveller:Babylon 5. Incomplete and sketchy, but there.

Now if I could pay off the mortgage somehow, so I could be on them 24 x 7,
would that be fun.

Garry

   



        

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:31:48 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: NAH Re:  Combat agility & missiles in T4

At 07:52 PM 1/27/97 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>On 01/27/97 at 08:53 AM,  "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> said:
>
>> >My personal take on an ideal NAH contents at this stage:
>> >1. extensions to VDS to allow any size hull to be built
>
>> I have the formulae that will calculate the hull size factors etc, got it
>> from a VDS spreadsheet.
>
>How about posting it?
>

Sorry about the delay but here it comes.
Hull Displacement is say 100.
Hull_Displacement*14=1400 Hull Volume
ROUND(((Hull_Volume_m3*3)/(4*PI()))^(1/3)*2,1)=13.9 Diameter in meters.
ROUND(4*PI()*(Hull_Diameter_m/2)^2,2)=606.99 Surface Area in m2
Hull_Surface_Area_m2/100=6.0699 Hull Factor

>> >4. extensions to VDS to allow spacecraft to be built w/VDS
>
>> I already have worked up some extersions for sensors, communicators,
>> computers, and armor values. I can post them if you would like.
>
>I like! I like! Post away! <g>
>

I will posting the extensions for sensors, et al

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 01:40:42 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

At 06:25 AM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Tony Zbaraschuk writes:
>   Of course this plotline was used by Battlestar Galactica to explain
>the ancient Egyptians and Greeks.  Anyone remember the opening
>monologue?
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>
>P.S. Bonus points if you can also remember the "real" human homeworld
>according to BG.
>

The common personnel department's mangling of the predominant commercial
programming language: Cobal, intermittantly pronounced correctly as Cobol. 

Garry
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:35:36 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: The law and bribery?

Goran Sjoberg wrote:
 <snip>
> "Bribery is generally a Difficult task on a moderate law world, and gets
> one level easier for each level of higher law, and one level harder for
> each level of lower law."
<snip>
> What is this? Am i wrong to assume that higher law means tougher law system
> and harsher punishments? Could someone please explain this to me.. as if i
> was a five year old.  :)
> 

No, you're not wrong. However, the following was taken from the
definition of Bribery under the *old* Classic Traveller rules (taken
from the Traveller book):

"Note that the roll for accepting a bribe varies inversely with
 the law level of a world; the more stringent the laws, the greater
 the corruption."

So this rule assumes that harsher laws will result in more people
being willing to break the law and accept bribes. Personally, I
don't agree with this.

IMO, it should also include modifiers based on the prevalent TL.
Basically, the higher the TL, the easier it is to monitor the
population and catch someone breaking the law. This would result in
a decreased chance that someone would be tempted to take the bribe
and a corresponding increase in the person's willingness to report
the bribery attempt to the local authorities.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 21:39:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: TravLang list is up!

  The Traveller Language Development List has been created, and is ready
  to go.  Sophonts who are interested in developing/assisting the
  development of languages for Traveller's alien races, both major and
  minor, are encouraged to subscribe.

  That's real easy!  To do it, send a message to maiser@earth.execnet.com
  with any subject line and a body text line of

        subscribe TravLang

  You'll receive a welcoming message from the server, and you'll be on!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:40:14 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: HIWG Sites

Anybody know what happened to the HIWG website? I've tried to access
it and the Australian mirror site and get messages stating that they
no longer exist.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:57:10 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Andrew Boulton writes:

>>    This theory only holds water if you find ziggurats on Vland.  
>
>Actually, ISTR them popping up all over the place in old Traveller >pics...

   Then you may have something, except explaining why the Terrans never
found the remains of a ship or any artifacts beyond the usual pottery,
clay tablets and bronze weapons.
 
>>   Of course this plotline was used by Battlestar Galactica to explain
>> the ancient Egyptians and Greeks.  Anyone remember the opening
>> monologue?
>
>I've heard BG could be coming back...

   Don't tease me like that...I know that an illustrated version (done
by Marvel?) has continued the story for years.  I also know that Richard
Hatch (aka Apollo) has been doing the convention circuit and shopping
the idea of a revival around Hollywood.  If you have heard anything
else, I'd love to know what information you have. 

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 23:55:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Dedly@aol.com
Subject: Supernovas & Neutron Stars

Well, with all the talk about Neutron stars I thought that I'd suggest some
further reading. Check out the December issue of Discover. The article
"Mystery of the Missing Star" is about the search for a Neutron star in the
remnants of Supernova 1987A. Anyone remember that one? Anyway, it's worth a
read. If you can't get your hands on a print copy try looking for it at:

www.enews.com/magazines/discover/

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 07:59:49 -0800
From: JayStr <jaystr@best.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

To be honest, I know very little of Traveller fleet tactics in any of
its various incarnations. At any rate, I'm sure you'll be up to your
ears in good advice from everybody else.

HOWEVER.... one tactic that has never failed me (in any game system,
from CT to various computer simulations to an AD&D campaign that spanned
three continents) is to go for the economic jugular -- deep interdiction
raids on his factories and commerce. Why dink around breaking milk
bottles in ersatz fleet actions when you can kill the goddam cow?

Accordingly, I suggest you design a deep-interdiction cruiser especially
for the purpose. I'm not familiar with whatever variant on the rules
you're using, so I can't advise you on the particulars, but I would
suggest the following characteristics:

1) Firstly, this sucker has to be MOBILE. It has to be able to penetrate
deep into enemy space and run away from big things and catch little
things. Accordingly, it should carry the best jump drive you can stick
in it, along with enough fuel for a two way trip. It should have the
best manuver drive you can reasonably fit in it, too. And it should
preferably be small enough to hitch a ride on your battle carriers, so
it can hitch rides and go even further.

2) Secondly, armaments need not be of the battlecruiser calibre, but
they should be enough to take on several smaller military vessels, so it
can take out armed outposts and won't be driven off by a few measly
system defense boats. A single squadron of fighters can add to its
firepower, and serve as eyes and ears to pick up targets throughout the
system you intend to terrorize. And since your object is commerce
raiding, a whole bunch of the mine racks you mentioned wouldn't hurt. I
bet a capital ship could carry LOTS of those lovely little suckers...

3) If you want to carry this concept to its ultimate conclusion, build a
class of ship tenders on the same hull, whose sole job it is to supply
and refuel these ships so that they can stay out there virtually
forever. This should drive the enemy to utter distraction after he's
staked out every gas giant in the neighborhood and you're STILL beating
him to a pulp in his own backyard.

Think of this beast as an interstellar U-boat, and employ it
accordingly. Avoid fair fights at all cost. The enemy will not only be
taking a beating economically, he'll have to channel a considerable
portion of his front-line forces to try and track them down. Such a
strategy always reaps disproportionate rewards. 

If you have the balls to actually subordinate your fleet strategy to
your U-boats, instead of simply viewing them as particularly nasty
auxiliaries, you can reduce any enemy to helpless screaming jelly in
short order. Make a show of front-line force in one system, then
another, requiring him to take time away from hunting your U-boats to
fend you off. Then you retreat and step up your U-boat activity again.
About the time he's convinced they don't form a serious military threat,
you form them into wolf packs and hit a big target -- then disperse (the
old 'ninja! vanish!' routine). Wait until he responds by stepping up his
system patrols, then move up a nasty threatening fleet up where he can
see it, forcing him to siphon resources away from his wolf-hunt to
defend himself....

And so on, over and over, yanking his strategic chain back and forth
until he's so totteringly weak that you can just cruise in and take all
his turf at a single stroke. Beats hell out of a slow grinding war of
attrition. Makes him busy enough that he can't really attack you,
either. Sun Tzu would approve. Give it a try.

- -- Jay Stranahan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:31:41 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

>On 02/01/97 at 01:31 PM,  "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG> said:
>
>> It seems to me that a mature interstellar culture would create a calendar
>> based on some phenomenon that is easily observable from every world in
>> the area (subsector, sector, domain, or empire-wide). What interstellar
>> phenomenon do we know of that can be easily observed *from planetary
>> orbit or higher* in multiple star systems with TL-9+ technology? 
>
>Um....pulsars, perhaps?
>
>Eris

What's weirder than the Vilani adopting the Terran calendar: jumpspace
adopting the Terran calendar! Notice that a jump, regardless of distance,
always takes *one week*! Now there's an astounding coindidence. :)

Obviously it's a not really a week *exactly*, but close enough for game
purposes. Seems to me the Imperium would adopt the jump-duration as the
standard time unit. All other measures could be derived from that unit.

Glenn G.

- -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                      <pawn@cam.org>
Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
                  -- Trevor Goodchild

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:49:27 -0500 (EST)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: QSDS Discount

David Blustein wrote:
>As a referee, I like to give the design discount to standard designs
>(as opposed to giving the discount for simply using standard
>modules), since standard designs produced in quantity deserve a
>discount. Your mileage may vary. :-)

	I agree completely.  In fact, this is a subject I've been planning
on bringing up.  
	There is a real tension between the justification of the QSDS
discount and the usefulness of QSDS as a design system.  The justification
for the discount is that QSDS is made up of a small number of standardized
components that are mass produced and used widely.  The usefulness of QSDS
as a system, however, is dependent on how flexible it is and the number of
different options it offers.  But the more hull sizes and power plant
capacities that are offered the less the "mass production" discount makes 
sense.
	I propose that all components in all systems be given the same 
pricing.  Then, after the ship is designed, the ref can decide whether 
the ship class qualifies for one of the "bulk" discounts.  Truly 
ubiquitious ships like the Scout Courier and Subsidized Merchant should 
get the 75% price, while common ships with big production runs would get 
the 85% price.  Ships that are unique to one company or planetary navy 
get the full price.
	Comments?  Derek?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:59:09 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:

Harold D. Hale wrote:

>Not ever having played TNE, I'm curious as to why you think it's so
>good.  I've been pondering game systems for a while, trying to come up
>with a truly universal, flexible system that has the best features of
>the games I've played so far...  I tend to lean more towards a certain 
>amount of complexity (at the moment I'm leaning towards a success-based 
>system like StoryTeller, but with d20's and more resolution in the
>stats).  What, in your opinion, makes TNE so good?

   Probably not all the reasons, but here's a good start:

1) Flexibility: I can play any kind of sci-fi game I want, from hardcore
Asimov-style to Star Trek to Starship Troopers to Battlestar Galactica
to Twilight Zone, all with the same set of books.  Hell, I can even play
non-sci-fi settings if I don't mind doing a little research and
designing my own weapons (or pick up copies of some of the Twilight:2000
sourcebooks to save time).  American Civil War RPG anyone?  No problem. 
"Guns of the South" RPG (where a bunch of white South Africans go back
in time and give the Confederates AK-47s in an effort to change
history)?  Absolutely.  How about a later Harry Turtledove novel about
an alien invasion of Earth in 1942?  Why not?  My point here is that TNE
is so inherently flexiable there is no limit to what you can do with it.

2) Task Resolution System: Most tasks are one die (even when I roll
multiple dice, each die represents one round).  I don't have to count
out dice everytime somebody wants to take an action, or figure out which
one is the "crazy dice" or "wild dice" or which is the half dice this
time.  No tipping off to the players how difficult something is when I
don't want them to know (at least not until after they've tried).  The
"to hit" number (the number I must roll or lower) is always my skill
level plus attribute.  No "divide this number by two then multiply this
other one by three and then perform the ritual referee dance to
determine if player opens door".  The odds of performing anything follow
a natural progression and don't artifically top out at a certain level. 
Don't like the odds?  Mods to the system are simple to perform too.

3) Detailed Design Sequences: Aside from watercraft (which you could
figure out if you wanted to, based on the MT watercraft design rules
that appeared in Challenge), you can build almost anything.  This is a
big help when you're doing alternative settings (see above) or you just
want to build a better battleship, or the ultimate battledress.  I think
only GURPs comes even close in the level of detail and choices
available, no other system is even in the same ballpark.

4) Depth of Background Material: Everything that happened in classic
Traveller happened in TNE, and it is perfectly permissable say to your
players "its 1105 and you are at the main starport on Trin in the
Spinward Marches with Cr 1,000 and no job, good luck."  TNE contains no
historical "revisionism", and any classic Traveller scenario can be used
with TNE with little or no adjustment required.  You can even start in
1116 with your characters present at the Imperial palace thwarting
Dulinor's coup, and progressing the timeline from there, or start in
Year Zero, and see if your player characters can become heroes of the
new empire, with starships and whole planets named after them.

   Ultimately TNE delivers what the designers at GDW originally
attended: a game that is both flexible, yet complex enough to hold your
attention.  My one regret is that GDW didn't have the funds on hand to
make TNE into more than just the story of the post-Collapse era.  There
is so much more that it can be. 

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 01:09:19 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

Harry McGowan
 
>Other options I have considered are
>Laying siege to a planet by mining its orbit, done by providing my 15
>ton fighters with jump drives (which is great value for tonnage) and no
>laser turrets, instead have mine racks.

   Mines would only be useful if they were in fact short range
missiles.  That way they can hit targets as they take off from the
surface and can give you planetwide coverage.  Stationary mines can be
easily avoided once their orbits are known (even orbit is a big place). 
Placing anything like in mine in orbit though requires that all
planetary based defences be neutralized, because while orbit is big,
there is also no where to hide, and sooner or later the bad guys on the
ground are going to pick off all your mines.

>Other options, are to use ships to tow asteroids into a planetary 
>system and drive them into surface after containing system defences. 
>This would be quite awful, causing tectonic clashes, and destroying a 
>great deal of casualties, effectively neutralising a planet, especialy
>useful if a planet cannot be controled, too near enemy reinforcements,
>or took too many casualties during initial assault on system.

   This I believe is a FAQ topic.  Please God, no more .25C or whatever
rocks from space!

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 23:11:28 -0800
From: bri <bri@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

At 07:59 AM 2/2/97 -0800, you wrote:
<snip>
>Accordingly, I suggest you design a deep-interdiction cruiser especially
>for the purpose. I'm not familiar with whatever variant on the rules
>you're using, so I can't advise you on the particulars, but I would
>suggest the following characteristics:
<snip>
 
 What your forgetting is that while you are busy spending X% of your
military budget on these intersteller raiders, you are taking X% from your
defense and his ships(while they might not survive for *years*, they can
survive for many months without going to port and refueling at gas giants
and asteroid belts) and just wash over your empire. It would be a pyhrric
victory at best.
 THis type of thing where you over-concentrate your 'push' into one
strategy works best against stupid computer opponents :)
bri <bri@teleport.com>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 01:04:07 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

> From: Glenn Grant <pawn@CAM.ORG>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Measurement Systems
> Date: Sunday, February 02, 1997 11:31 PM

> What's weirder than the Vilani adopting the Terran calendar: jumpspace
> adopting the Terran calendar! Notice that a jump, regardless of distance,
> always takes *one week*! Now there's an astounding coindidence. :)
> 
> Obviously it's a not really a week *exactly*, but close enough for game
> purposes. Seems to me the Imperium would adopt the jump-duration as the
> standard time unit. All other measures could be derived from that unit.

The problem with that is that it's variable...  within hours, of course,
but still I doubt that it has the consistency required of a std. time
measurement; unless canon were "changed" to support this theory...  which
has merit!

David Reed
david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:09:04 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

>What's weirder than the Vilani adopting the Terran calendar: jumpspace
>adopting the Terran calendar! Notice that a jump, regardless of distance,
>always takes *one week*! Now there's an astounding coindidence. :)
>
>Obviously it's a not really a week *exactly*, but close enough for game
>purposes. Seems to me the Imperium would adopt the jump-duration as the
>standard time unit. All other measures could be derived from that unit.
>
>Glenn G.

In my Rebellion era campaign the calender has 365 days of 52 weeks and one
holiday outside of the weeks. Each season is three months long where each
month is 4 weeks, 4 weeks and 5 weeks. My players and myself has a calender
where they note their travels, important events and so forth. This makes
refereeing much easier and in one instance made an extremely important turn
of events.

What calender a culture uses has more to do with religous or political
factors than reason as can be seen on earth today. The Islamic year doesn't
conform to the "real year" and most modern, western countries have decided
to turn their clocks back part of the year for what I can tell mystic
reasons.

The good about all this is that societies doesn't get more rational or
scientific as their TL increase which gives the referee ample opportunity
to invent interesting cultures and adventure hooks.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:58:40 PST
From: Eamon Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels

Hi,

Last week I posted to the List about a TL-16 planet in Gateway Sector that was 
mentioned in the Megatraveller Journal 4. Here's some more info on it, with 
thoughts on how this could be tied to the 'TL-14 ROM Space Suit'.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alphaaric, Gateway 1133. 1120 stats: A996220-F N Fl Lo   932 Na M1V M4V
(yup, I got the TL wrong).

An independent system, just outside the Imperial client state of the Galian 
Federation, jointly managed by the Federation and the system's own native, 
nonhuman civilization, the Faar. The UWP is for Faarview, a human colony/station 
circling Mashan, the system's primary gas giant.
Alpharic is inhabited by the Faar, a highly advanced civilization which has 
never bothered to develop jump drive or explore beyond it's own world. A brisk 
and highly lucrative trade in high-tech electronics, novelties and recreational 
devices continues between the Galian traders and the Faar Domains.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next highest tech achieved in the Gateway sector is C, so it is possible 
that the Faar achieved their tech level slowly, and may have been at TL-14 
around the start of the Third Imperium. 

Gareway was colonized just after the start of the Long Night, and began 
exploitation of the sector through Corporations in -500. The imperium contacted
the sector officially in 64, but there may have been trade between the Gateway 
Corporations and Imperial Traders before then. It wouldn't be unreasonable to 
suppose that some Faar TL-14 parts or suits were traded, and incorporated into 
Vacc Suits that were traded as Rule of Man Suits, to get a better price as 
antiques, also protecting the source of the High-Tech suits.

Not an eligant solution to the Suit problem, but a possibility.

Eamon. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:54:09 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

Maybe I'm swwearing in church but here's my take at TNE superiority:
Note that I'm comparing TNE to all other SFRPGs not all other GDW SFRPG.
Im comparing TNE to GURPS

>1) Flexibility: I can play any kind of sci-fi game I want, from hardcore
>Asimov-style to Star Trek to Starship Troopers to Battlestar Galactica
>to Twilight Zone, all with the same set of books.
Well, you cannot beat GURPS in flexibility. Most capaign settings are
already published so you don't have to create them yourself.

>2) Task Resolution System: Most tasks are one die (even when I roll
>multiple dice, each die represents one round).  I don't have to count
>out dice everytime somebody wants to take an action, or figure out which
>one is the "crazy dice" or "wild dice" or which is the half dice this
>time.

GURPS doesn't have a task system but has much more rules than TNE which
somewhat alleviate this problem.

>3) Detailed Design Sequences: Aside from watercraft (which you could
>figure out if you wanted to, based on the MT watercraft design rules
>that appeared in Challenge), you can build almost anything.  This is a
>big help when you're doing alternative settings (see above) or you just
>want to build a better battleship, or the ultimate battledress.  I think
>only GURPs comes even close in the level of detail and choices
>available, no other system is even in the same ballpark.

FF&S is randomly cobbled together with high detail in some parts and no
detail at all in others. Also, most of the detail in design system is lost
when playing as there are no rules for most of the stuff you put in.

>4) Depth of Background Material: Everything that happened in classic
>Traveller happened in TNE, and it is perfectly permissable say to your
>players "its 1105 and you are at the main starport on Trin in the
>Spinward Marches with Cr 1,000 and no job, good luck."  TNE contains no
>historical "revisionism", and any classic Traveller scenario can be used
>with TNE with little or no adjustment required.  You can even start in
>1116 with your characters present at the Imperial palace thwarting
>Dulinor's coup, and progressing the timeline from there, or start in
>Year Zero, and see if your player characters can become heroes of the
>new empire, with starships and whole planets named after them.

The heplar thrusters and semi magical virus changes the underlying reality
behind the game that makes SDB's useless. This partly invalidates the
history.
The only real disadvantage with GURPS is that there is no Traveller
gameworld for it, otherwise I reccomend any beginning Traveller players to
buy GURPS, GURPS Space, GURPS Vehicles and any old background mtrl from CT
or MT.

>   Ultimately TNE delivers what the designers at GDW originally
>attended: a game that is both flexible, yet complex enough to hold your
>attention.  My one regret is that GDW didn't have the funds on hand to
>make TNE into more than just the story of the post-Collapse era.  There
>is so much more that it can be.

I agree that TNE was the best game system for Traveller by GDW but the
setting was more space fantasy than old traveller, perhaps to lure Vampire
players to traveller?
(Oh no! I did another TNE bash :)
The problem is that I've yet to meet a Traveller referee that uses any GDW
system.
I've always* had my own combat system, design system et c so my preference
for MT lies solely on the setting.

*We played Snapshot with homebrew rules before Traveller and have therefore
never really used Travellers org systems. The only org system I've used was
High Guard for a couple of weeks but as it was very uninspiring when
fighting out Scout vs Pirate battles we only used it as a design system.
When Striker I came out I scrapped High Guard and made my own design system
which I've been rewriting constantly up until today.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 23:42:57 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

At 07:59 2/02/1997 -0800, you wrote:
>To be honest, I know very little of Traveller fleet tactics in any of
>its various incarnations. At any rate, I'm sure you'll be up to your
>ears in good advice from everybody else.

>HOWEVER.... one tactic that has never failed me (in any game system,
>from CT to various computer simulations to an AD&D campaign that spanned
>three continents) is to go for the economic jugular -- deep interdiction
>raids on his factories and commerce. Why dink around breaking milk
>bottles in ersatz fleet actions when you can kill the goddam cow?

Its called "Guerre de Corse", a strategy probably as old as
warfare itself. Its the traditional strategy of the lesser power.
And it has failed far far more times than it has succeded. It
only has a chance of success if you have no LOC's the enemy can
attack in their turn. If you have vunerable LOC's the enemy would
have to be a first class dimwit not to follow suit (this is not
to say that you need to look very hard to find such dimwits).

>Accordingly, I suggest you design a deep-interdiction cruiser especially
>for the purpose. I'm not familiar with whatever variant on the rules
>you're using, so I can't advise you on the particulars, but I would
>suggest the following characteristics:

>1) Firstly, this sucker has to be MOBILE. It has to be able to penetrate
>deep into enemy space and run away from big things and catch little
>things. Accordingly, it should carry the best jump drive you can stick
>in it, along with enough fuel for a two way trip. It should have the
>best manuver drive you can reasonably fit in it, too. And it should
>preferably be small enough to hitch a ride on your battle carriers, so
>it can hitch rides and go even further.

If they are small they won't work. A raider has to be at least
cruiser sized to have any chance. Any smaller and it will be
creamed by the enemies patrol forces.

>2) Secondly, armaments need not be of the battlecruiser calibre, but
>they should be enough to take on several smaller military vessels, so it
>can take out armed outposts and won't be driven off by a few measly
>system defense boats. A single squadron of fighters can add to its
>firepower, and serve as eyes and ears to pick up targets throughout the
>system you intend to terrorize. And since your object is commerce
>raiding, a whole bunch of the mine racks you mentioned wouldn't hurt. I
>bet a capital ship could carry LOTS of those lovely little suckers...

They have to carry sufficent armarment to overwhelm any small
opponent very quickly, not defeat but crush. Remember any
damage and the ship is toast. Mines are good, mostly due to
their threat rather than the actual damage they will do. The
enemy can not know how many there are and must devote resources
to sweeping all possible contacts. But then again, remember that
the enemy can do the same to you. During the 1st WW the British
held off deploying their very effective magnetic mines because
the Germans could do far more damage to the British with them.
A few mines around your bases can really put a crimp in your
raiders operations.

>3) If you want to carry this concept to its ultimate conclusion, build a
>class of ship tenders on the same hull, whose sole job it is to supply
>and refuel these ships so that they can stay out there virtually
>forever. This should drive the enemy to utter distraction after he's
>staked out every gas giant in the neighborhood and you're STILL beating
>him to a pulp in his own backyard.

The tenders are a good idea, but they are high value targets
with only very limited capacity to defend themselves; and they
will be the first priority of the enemy.

>Think of this beast as an interstellar U-boat, and employ it
>accordingly. Avoid fair fights at all cost. The enemy will not only be
>taking a beating economically, he'll have to channel a considerable
>portion of his front-line forces to try and track them down. Such a
>strategy always reaps disproportionate rewards.

Its not a submarine, its a surface raider. It doesn't have the
degree of stealth to make a sub. The problem with this type of
ship is that a much smaller vessel can force it to break of its
mission. If it gets damaged it loses its advantage and has to
run home, so even when it wins against an enemy ship it will be
forced to abandon its raid if it has suffered even mild damage.
Therefore it can't aford to fight anything capable of inflicting
damage. Therefore the enemy can counter it with a large number
of smaller ships. If it tries to raid surface facilities it runs
into the fact that anything worth hitting will have defences quite
capable of hurting it.

>If you have the balls to actually subordinate your fleet strategy to
>your U-boats, instead of simply viewing them as particularly nasty
>auxiliaries, you can reduce any enemy to helpless screaming jelly in
>short order. Make a show of front-line force in one system, then
>another, requiring him to take time away from hunting your U-boats to
>fend you off. Then you retreat and step up your U-boat activity again.
>About the time he's convinced they don't form a serious military threat,
>you form them into wolf packs and hit a big target -- then disperse (the
>old 'ninja! vanish!' routine). Wait until he responds by stepping up his
>system patrols, then move up a nasty threatening fleet up where he can
>see it, forcing him to siphon resources away from his wolf-hunt to
>defend himself....

Your raiders need bases to operate from and those bases have to
be fairly close to the front. Those bases are going to be a prime
target for the enemy. These bases have to be defended or the enemy
will come waltzing over the frontier and take your bases.

>And so on, over and over, yanking his strategic chain back and forth
>until he's so totteringly weak that you can just cruise in and take all
>his turf at a single stroke. Beats hell out of a slow grinding war of
>attrition. Makes him busy enough that he can't really attack you,
>either. Sun Tzu would approve. Give it a try.

Unless your the minor power without significant LOC's, don't base
your strategy around it. Commerce raiding is a vital part of an
intergrated naval strategy, but its only part.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
     "It was horrible said S.D. Murphy a witness"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #908
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 3 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 909



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Satellite planets
Re: Memory Alpha
Jump Fuel Calculations
Calendar Challenge
My mistake
24 hour days and such
The law and bribery?
RE: QSDS Walkthrough
Ship Design Systems
January Ship Design Contest
Aging in MMT4...
Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"
Question about jump drives
Re: Jump Fuel Calculations
Re: Aging in MMT4...
re: [Traveller Answer] Stellar Radii
Traveller Linguistics
Re: Aging in MMT4...
Re: Measurement Systems

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:07:59 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Satellite planets

          >>Martyn Fogg (mfogg@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
>>: An essential paper for budding world-builders can be found in this
week's : Nature.
          >>:
          >>: D.M. Williams, J.F. Kasting and R.A. Wade, "Habitable moons around
          >>: extrasolar giant planets," Nature, 385, 234-235 (1997).


Winchell Chung added:

          >Excellent! I'll add it to the worldbuilder's bibliography
          >at my web site, along side the references to marvelous
          >papers by a certain Mr. Fogg.

          Don't miss the page in the same issue of Nature entitled 'Life on
          Other Moons' (p.201) by Christopher F. Chyba.

          HTH

          tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:51:34 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Memory Alpha

          >Subject: Re: Memory Alpha
          >Hi. Yes, I have a copy. Let me know the address, and I'll post
          photocopies.

I couldn't help notice the above and wondered if I could beg for help!
Please could you give me details of Memory Alpha for a forthcoming
bibliography BITS is publishing?

What I'd like to know is:

the *full* title (including any subtitle)
the author as given on the title page (1st choice) cover (2nd) e.g. Marc W.
Miller, Marc Miller or whatever
the publisher [GDW?]
the date of publication
the number of pages [the last numbered page, or if there's no page
numbering a page count]
the size of the volume (in inches) although if it's a Little Black Book
size or regular 'large' size, that info would suffice
a yes or no on the inclusion of any of the following:
     Maps (not counting deck plans)
     Tables
     Diagrams (non-'illustration' graphics or deck plans would be included
in this)
     Illustrations (not counting the cover)
     Glossary
     Bibligoraphy
     Index
A note on the location (if any) in Imperial space
Short contents note

Any further comments you'd be willing to add although I do have a few notes
as I have a reprint of the thing in a magazine (which of course doesn't
tell me any of the above for certain.)

Your help would be much appreciated and of course, you'd get a mention in
the acknowledgements of the bibliography.

Many thanks, sorry to trouble you

tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 02:58:28 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Jump Fuel Calculations

dave golden said:
>	The fuel requirements for jump were chosen deliberately to be the
>same as
>for Classic and MegaTraveller. Your average ship does NOT and never has
>carried sufficient fuel for multiple max-distance jumps. This is intentional.
>
Sorry dave, but MT used a different formula for jump fuel than CT/T4

CT: fuel for 1 jump of J-n = 10% size times n

MT: fuel for 1 J-n = 5% volume times (n+1)
	as Jdrive volume is (n+1)%
	and J-N fuel is 5 times volume of jump drive.

TNE: Same as MT

T4: same as CT


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 02:52:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Calendar Challenge

>
>With respect to other measurement systems, like calendars,
>planet-locked cultures normally choose dating systems based on the
>appearant movements of satellites (like the Moon) or stars (like the
>Sun). Most historical Terran calendars are Solar or Lunar. (I'm sure
>someone out there can find one that isn't, so ... :-) A Solar or
>Lunar calendar is useful because either of these objects are
>*easily* observable from the surface of the Earth. (with the
>notable exception of bad weather :-)
>

Actually, one of the Pre-Euro Meso-american cultures had an Astonomical
callendar. The solar year and the astronomical year are close, very  very
close, but slightly different.

	Solar observed year is either equinox to same equinox or solstice
to same solstice. due to days not snyching exactly to orbital period, there
is a difference from:

	Astronomical year is 1 complete orbit. not day-linked.

	astrological year is time to have a given constellation rise or set
over a specific arc range; stonehenge may have been used for this, in
addition, or in place of, solar year, at same or different times.

terms are taken from an anthropology text, in a sidebar.
all these are related, but all share a period of around 365.2xx terran real
days of 23:56:06.7 (HH:MM:SS), with solar observed year being 365 or 366
days, as it is an integer system; it is the actual system in practical use,
and requires correction factors (leap days ever x years, with a leap day
skipped every x years, and every so many x years, you add one back in.

said pre-euro-contact meso-american calendar was more accurate than the
revised gregorian in current use... and was based upon astological
observations in conjuction with solar observations... and heavy base 20 and
360 mathematics.

so much for the "technology beats anchient wisdom" paradigm... ;-)


William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:58:08 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: My mistake

I've just sent my first ever e-mail to a mailing list by mistake.

My apologies, I guess there's a first time for everything.  (that'll wipe
the smirk off my face when others do the same!)



While I'm here - those interested in languages in Traveller might also be
interested in the following book:

Aliens and Linguistics: Language Study and Science Fiction

by Walter E. Meyers

The University of Georgia Press, 1980
ISBN 0 8203 0487 5


And if anyone can track down a copy of this in a second hand book store in
the States, I'd gladly pay for it and postage!

tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 02:24:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: 24 hour days and such

one reason the standard day migh have remained 24 hours:
	EASY DIVISION INTO EQUAL SUBUNITS;

	Sub-unit list, in hours per subunit
	1,2,3,4,6,8,12,24

Problems: 1hour=3600 sec, and the second approimates a resting heartbeat
	1 day = 86400 sec

360 has quite a few valid sub-units, too, and is a great division of arc
for that reason. It also happens to be only 5.2x off from number of days
per year.

1,2,3,4,5,6,8, 9,10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 24, 30, 36, 45, 60, 90, 120, 180, 360

3600 is divisible by all the above, and mutliples of 5 or 10 of these, as well.

many numbers in the range 1-40 are prime, or product of 2 primes.
1 P		11 P		21=3x7		31 P		41 p
2 P		12=2x2x3	22=2x11		32=2x2x2x2x2	42=2x3x7
3 P		13 P		23 P		33=3x11		43 P
4=2x2		14=2x7		24=2x2x2x3	34=2x17		44=2x2x11
5 P		15=3x5		25=5x5		35=5x7		45=3x3x5
6=2x3		16=2x2x2x2	26=2x13		36=2x2x3x3	46=2x23
7 P		17 P		27=3x9		37 P		47 p
8=2x2x2		18=2x3x3	28=2x2x7	38=2x19		48=2x2x2x2x3
9=3x3		19 P		29 P		39=3x13		49=7x7
10=2x5		20=2x2x5	30=2x3x5	40=2x2x2x5	50=2x5x5

Flexibility requires multiple permutations of 1 or more factors each, with
multiple prime factors being optimal for increased non-duplicative outcomes.

this gives us optimal targets of 12, 24, 36, 40, 45, 48, 50

nez pas?

William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 07:26:08 -0500
From: Doug Sinclair <diemos@ican.net>
Subject: The law and bribery?

Why is it easier to bribe someone at law level 10 than at law level 1?
Because at law level 1 there are very few laws, and they take them
very seriously.

At law level 1, the only things that are illegal are rape, murder and
theft.  There is probably no legal system per-se, just a bunch of angry
neighbors who will lynch you.  Now, try bribing your way out of that.

At law level 10, imagine a place like Singapore.  Chewing gum is
illegal.  Not flushing a toilet is illegal.  With so many crimes, the
average person will be arrested every month or so (no clue if this is
true in Singapore).  Punishments can't be all that severe, or there
wouldn't be any people left.  Similarly, bribary would be quite easy
since nobody really cares.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 07:24:00 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: RE: QSDS Walkthrough

Just commenting on Dave's post.

> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:38:09 -0600
> From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
> Subject: Re: QSDS walkthrough
> 
> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
> 
> > The cost reductions of QSDS, as stated clearly in the design system, are
> > due to using standardized plug 'n' play componentry. 
> 
> You're right, if we want to account for the cost of the custom power
> plant I installed, the discounted cost becomes MCr37.795 (an increase
> in cost of MCr 3.325). Though, a stricter interpretation of the rules
> might disallow the discount altogether. ;-)
> 
> As a referee, I like to give the design discount to standard designs
> (as opposed to giving the discount for simply using standard
> modules), since standard designs produced in quantity deserve a
> discount. Your mileage may vary. :-)
> 
>  
> > The design for the scout/courier in the walkthrough follows QSDS until it
> > comes time for putting in the power plant. Then Cmdr. X interpolated
> > between standard components in the power plant tables to arrive at ...
> 
> Actually, during Bill Prankard's walkthrough, we installed a 50 Mw
> power plant and a 75 Mw power plant (with a combined volume of 4.5
> tons, and a combined fuel use of 0.7 tons.

Yes, this is correct.

> 
> I used T4's QSDS while following Bill's discussion. When it came time
> to tally volume, power, cost, and area, I found 0.3 tons of waste
> space in my notes.
> 
> After that walkthrough, I checked my figures again (using T4) and
> came up with the same discrepancy. Looking at the completed design, I
> could only find two items that could fill the 0.3 ton void, TL-13
> Military Controls or a bigger power plant.

That is alowable waste space, realy no need to put more stuff in.

> 
> My goal is to reproduce a design that results in a Universal Ship
> Profile (USP) that matches the one given in T4, if possible.

I thought I came rather close! :)
> 
> So, since I wanted to keep the design at TL-12, I chose to add the
> spare tonnage to the power plant and see what happened.
> 
> My power plant requirement became 4.8 tons volume, 0.7 tons fuel, and
> between 125 Mw and 175 Mw power. The only way I could find a way to
> duplicate the design shown in T4 was to make a custom power plant. If
> there's another way to produce the design using standard components
> and still duplicate what's in T4, I am very interested in seeing it.

the ship only uses 104.7Mw IIRC.  Why do you need the extra power?
(heh, heh, thou art truly a gearhead! <g> )
> 
> BTW, clarifications have been added to my web page. I figure if I
> (basically) satisfy the 500 to 600 souls here, I've done well. :-)
> 
> Cheers,
>      David
> - -- 
> David Blustein
> http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
> mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG
> 
Is good, heres the other half of your biscuit. :)

- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:56:11 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: Ship Design Systems

Can someone tell me where to get copies of all the ship design systems that
are being banded around this TML (what publications are they in), I might
then have an idea what everyone is jabbering about as to the good and bad
points, and i could have a bash at the 3 tier system i suggested, but until
i know what there is and how it works then i have no chance.


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:49:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: January Ship Design Contest

Hi,

To anyone who entered the January ship design contest: I'd like
to archive all of the entries on my web page. If you're interested in having
your design put up, please email me a copy of your entry or tell me where
I can download a copy and I'll put it up.

Thanks!

Ethan
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:42:20 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Aging in MMT4...

Just out of curiosity, since I've finally decided to give MMT4 a chance... 
How the heck are the new aging rules supposed to work?  I browsed the
errata on the IG website, but found only references to the aging mistakes
in the ubiquitous Capt. Jamison example.  I'm intrigued by some of the
rules changes, but...

The target number for the "saving throw" (does that phrase show my age, or
what?) is supposed to be the tens digit of the character's age, beginning
at age 35, and then every five years thereafter for STR, DEX, END, and
INT...

In effect, just alternating target numbers between 5 and 0 every five
years... 5 at 35, 0 at 40, 5 at 45...  which seems a bit silly at this time
of day.  Is the 0 intended to be 10?  Am I missing something?

Well, please forward flames to me, sparing the list, but any
"enlightenment" is welcome.

david@techrefuge.com

p.s.  Harold - I did finally recover from the ebola that I contracted at
GenCon...
__________________________________________________________________________

"At the end, it got bad, real bad.  The front was being breached all over
the place.  As a final stop-gap measure, the surving Joint Chiefs ordered
the last of our reserves to plug the holes.  It was too little, too late,
but rumor has it that some of the self-equipped Postal Brigade made it to
the enemy rear area, shooting as many officers and non-coms as they could
find, before turning their weapons on themselves."    _Death of a Nation_
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:47:35 -0600 (CST)
From: ccguy@showme.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Let's talk "Age of Sail!"

Ironclads is, I think, now out-of-print, although there are still a few
copies on shelves over here (or were last summer). In many ways, it feels 
a lot like Wooden Ships and Iron Men, but for the 1860s and 1870s -
boarding was still possible, and the expansion set for IC particularly 
takes this into account - including provisions even for actions with
infantry on river banks and forts. The critical hit system also gives
a WSIM type feel. 

The reason I brought it up is because the overall feel is similar, but
it provides a means to handle armor and engine-based propulsion. Also,
like Traveller, there is a lot of attention to different weapons types. 
My one complaint with the system is that the guns are too accruate for the
period.

Guy

On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 01/30/97 at 08:37 AM,  Guy Wilson <ccguy@showme.missouri.edu> said:
> 
> > > I'm still looking for a way to reduce that to...oh say...3 minute turns.
> > > Yes, I'll have to change ship speeds, yes, I'll have to do something about
> > > weapons and ranges, and no I won't want to deal with major fleets.  What
> > > I'm looking for is "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" in space, or I guess, "Star
> > > Ships and Crystaliron Men."  ;->
> > > 
> 
> > Hey, heresy is great! 
> 
> > Anyway, have you considered using Ironclads as a model - it provides a
> > similar feel to WSIM but with engines.
> 
> I haven't been able to run down Ironclads, what can you tell me about it?
> 
> You've probably guessed that what I really want to do is find a way to make
> boarding actions a viable option.  ;->
> 
> I don't want ships turning each other into useless hulks at k^5 ranges. 
> Somehow or other, I'd like to find a way for ships to have their drives
> and/or weapons disabled without being completely wreaked.  That way there
> would be both the opportunity and reason for close in and boarding actions. 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Eris
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:36:28 -0600 (CST)
From: lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: Question about jump drives

Hi, All-

        Pardon the sudden interjection, but I've got a question that relates
to a JTAS adventure I'm writing.  How does a starship generate the energy
sufficient to engage the jump drive?  Does it have to be accumulated in a
series of capacitors, then released, or does it come directly from the
ship's power plant?  My research so far has turned up conflicting answers.
I need information relative to T4, obviously.
        I figure if anyone would know, it would be you guys.  Thanks in
advance for any help you can give!

Yours respectfully, 

Mike Lee
Classic Traveller player since 1978

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:50:59 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Fuel Calculations

At 02:58 am 02/03/97 -0900, William F. Hostman said:
>dave golden said:
>>	The fuel requirements for jump were chosen deliberately to be the
>>same as
>>for Classic and MegaTraveller. Your average ship does NOT and never has
>>carried sufficient fuel for multiple max-distance jumps. This is
intentional.
>>
>Sorry dave, but MT used a different formula for jump fuel than CT/T4

	Huh! Shows you how long it's been since I used MT. Actually, I only ever
designed one ship for MT, and (after six straight hours of playing, at 2
am), the referee managed to walk away with it. We spent the rest of the
campaign chasing that damn thing all over the Imperium!

	I stand corrected.



- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:50:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Aging in MMT4...

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, David Reed wrote:

> The target number for the "saving throw" (does that phrase show my age, or
> what?) is supposed to be the tens digit of the character's age, beginning
> at age 35, and then every five years thereafter for STR, DEX, END, and
> INT...
> 
> In effect, just alternating target numbers between 5 and 0 every five
> years... 5 at 35, 0 at 40, 5 at 45...  which seems a bit silly at this time
> of day.  Is the 0 intended to be 10?  Am I missing something?

No, as you said, it's the _tens digit_ that becomes the target number.  
Thus, at age 35, the target number is 3.  At age 40, the target number is 
4.  And so on.  Of course, unlike with all other tasks in the book, if 
you roll less than or equal to the target number on an aging throw, that 
means you lose a point (i.e., what would be thought of as a successful 
throw in the rest of the book is, in the case of aging, a failed throw).


Hope this helps,

- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:46:41 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: [Traveller Answer] Stellar Radii

Wildstar writes

>Size    Diameter (Km)   Avg Diameter   T/P Limit
>Code    Min     Max     Km      L-S    Light-Sec

>SGG     20000   59999   40000   0.13    133.0
>LGG     60000  119999   90000   0.30    300.0
>Note: The average sizes given for small and large gas giants may vary slightly
>from that assumed by the Traveller rulebook.  The averages above are the
>middle of the size range, and are generally larger than corresponding worlds
>in Earth's solar system.

Actually, in our solar system, gas giants vary from 50000 km diameter
(Neptune/Uranus) to 140,000 km (Jupiter). 

Interestingly, Jupiter has about the maximum radius possible for a 
nonstellar object; as you add more mass, the core becomes slightly degenerate
and the radius stays about the same (or even decreases). 

I've always assumed that things like "1000 diameters" were just rules-of-thumb,
and the actual radius depends on the mass (or mass^1/3) - maybe we should
write up a table based on that.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 23:23:08 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <mark@dk-online.dk>
Subject: Traveller Linguistics

1/2-97 Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> T::>Speaking of Vilani, does anyone on the list know of Traveler
linguistic
>  ::>material that's been created?  Either canonically or privately?  Is
anyone
>  ::>*interested* in this subject?  I am -- in Vilani and/or Zhodani, at
least.
>  ::>Traveler, with all its hard-science feel, is pretty soft on the
>  ::>socio-cultural side of things -- we shouldn't let those lumpy-browed
>  ::>Klingons get all the attention for having their own language <G>.

There was a short treatment about the Vilani language in Vilani & Vargr,
although not much.

Alien Module 3: Vargr had vocabulary, grammar etc. for 'a relatively
obscure Vargr language': Arrghoun.

Alien Module 8: Darrians had a (very) short article about tezlodh (the
Darrian language).

Travellers' Digest issue 3 had an article about 'Vargr Language and
Culture' by Gary L. Thomas.

Travellers' Digest issue 17 had an article about 'Trokh: Language of the
Warriors' by Gary L. Thomas. It ran 3.5 pages.

IIRC there are no other canonical treatments of Traveller languages,
besides the standard word generation tables.

Hope this helps.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/Mark_Seemann/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 03:38:08 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: Aging in MMT4...

At 08:42 3/02/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, since I've finally decided to give MMT4 a chance... 
>How the heck are the new aging rules supposed to work?  I browsed the
>errata on the IG website, but found only references to the aging mistakes
>in the ubiquitous Capt. Jamison example.  I'm intrigued by some of the
>rules changes, but...
>
>The target number for the "saving throw" (does that phrase show my age, or
>what?) is supposed to be the tens digit of the character's age, beginning
>at age 35, and then every five years thereafter for STR, DEX, END, and
>INT...
>
>In effect, just alternating target numbers between 5 and 0 every five
>years... 5 at 35, 0 at 40, 5 at 45...  which seems a bit silly at this time
>of day.  Is the 0 intended to be 10?  Am I missing something?
>
>Well, please forward flames to me, sparing the list, but any
>"enlightenment" is welcome.
>
>david@techrefuge.com
>

You have got your tens & units digits confused. It should be.....
3 at 35, 4 at 40 & 45, 5 at 50 & 55 etc

PeteH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:30:08 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

In terms of interstellar calendar systems, here's what prompted 
the thought:

A ship exits jumpspace.

It scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in 
space. (i.e., answers the question, "where are we?")

Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
(i.e., answers the question, "when are we?")  [note: these "markers" 
may or may not be the same as the first step]


A ship *can't* rely on its own clock, because (in some versions of 
the rules) minor mishaps can cause a time distortion during jump. 
(i.e., in jumpspace the ship's clock runs off more or less time than 
passes in normal space)


I'm simply interested in knowing if we're aware of any astronomical 
phenomenon that could be used in the manner I've described. I'm 
completely uninterested in replacing the Imperial calendar. This is 
more of a "what if"?

The results could be used in Traveller with the Imperial calendar, or 
in other settings with different calendars.


I'm looking more for a "date/time reference" than for a replacement 
calendar. (Though, the new reference system *might* eventually 
replace older calendars - depends on the culture. :-)

Accuracy need only be light-seconds or minutes (initially) for its 
location in space, and seconds or minutes for its location in time. 
Initial observations should assure an astrogator that all is well. 
Continued observations should allow greater accuracy in space/time 
location.

I figure it should work something like WWV radio broadcasts 
available here and now.

Thoughts? Comments? Astronomical Knowledge?

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #909
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 3 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 910



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
RFC:  realistic aging.  (was Re: Aging in MMT4...)
Re: Question about jump drives
Re: QSDS Discount
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Sad Thoughts on Aliens Archive
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??
Jan. Ship design contest again
Re: Geonee Timeframe
Re: Measurement Systems
Bribery
Re: January Ship Design Contest
Re: Aging
RE: Sumer, Vilani, Galatica opening mono

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:11:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Forgive me for splitting hairs, but I believe the opening monologue of
"Battlestar Galactica" referred to the Egyptians, the Toltecs, and the
Mayans.  Personally, I think the idea of squabbling, bloodthirsty,
calender- and dynasty-obsessed starfaring Mayan progenitors is sorta
nifty, in a colorful "space-opera-ish" kinda way.  Hey...something just
occurred to me.  The Mayans had, I believe, *three* different kinds of
years: the 365-day "vague year," probably used for ordinary administrative
purposes, a 360-day year used to determine chronological distances to a
reference point at roughly 3100 b.c., and a 260-day "calender round," used
to assign "day names" to each day, in part for divination.  The 365- and
360-days years make a moderate amount of sense, but why a 260-day year?
The answer is obvious: Precolumbian Mesoamerican civilization (the Aztecs
also used the "calender round," and so did the earlier Olmecs), was either
descended from, or inspired by, a minor human race whose homeworld had a
260-day year.  Ha!  Yes, I know, this has nothing to do with 'Traveller',
so I'll drop it.

Oh, if I recall correctly, the "real" human homeworld in "Battlestar
Galactica" was called Kobol.
                                                            - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:44:10 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

        I am sorry if this has been discussed yet. I recently snipped around
60 digests in order to be able to read the last ones...

        JTAS 25 has finally arrived to Spain (that meaning me, I do not know
of anybody else receiving it in this Traveller-Free country...)

        The fiction is good, the Vestiges adventure is great, the Asym
excerpt is also good, I love the issue, but.... what is this "Silver Moon"
thing????

        It seems to me that "Silver Moon" is a Star Wars adventure hurriedly
adapted to Traveller... and I do not like the result. But, worse, nobody
else can like it, because IMHO nobody else can use it. Either I am
completely mistaken, or this adventure is of no use because it violates the
basic principles of Traveller.

        Let me explain. The PCs travel from a "starbase" to a planet 4
parsecs away, following a mission given by the commander of the Starbase. If
they make some mistake, then the Imp.Navy is waiting for them when they
arrive... that's strange, because they are jumping immediately there and
information cannot travel faster than them, but O.K., let us ignore this.
        Please, guys, take a look at the last box in page 19, under the
title "Encounter Six - The Arrest". The Imperial Navy has captured the PCs,
and then they are releasing them because they have "called" Starbase and
have had a "conversation" with the commander of the Starbase (Armontillo).
They exchange at least four sentences... IN TRAVELLER, THIS MEANS AT LEAST
FOUR WEEKS!!! Ther is no interstellar phone! Information travels in ships!
If this is not so, I have been completely mistaken for years... So, please,
tell me that I am wrong and that I am not reading this "adventure" well. To
me, it seems that one of the most basic assumptions of Traveller has been
violated.

        But, that's not all. The adventure starts speaking of a new
MEGAcorporation, Baabac Enterprises. Funny. I thought all the megacorps were
already accounted for in the Referee's Companion (?), so a new one is a
major departure from early developed background. O.K., I thought, although
there is no word about it, this must mean that this adventure is written for
Milieu Zero, not for 1100. But, at the beginning, the adventure speaks of
"transponders...". I was under the impression that transponders were
developed around 1100, after Dr.Rushorin research about the Cymbeline Chips.

        What is happening here? I better not mention all the other little
facts, like this surprising "Imperial Navy Military Police" never mentioned
before in Traveller, or the incredible situation where an Imperial Navy
officer investigates about Scout ships and even provides one of them (I
thought the IN and the IISS were different organizations), or the fact that
no UWPs or reference to the location (not even sector) of the named worlds
used in the adventure are provided (Oberon/Puck, Loviatar... where are these
worlds, and what are the stats?).

        I humbly insist: this seems to me a Star Wars adventure badly
camouflaged as Traveller, and I also humbly think that stuff like this has
no place in JTAS.
        If Lewis Wright is around there, I would appreciate some answers
about this...
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:28:52 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: RFC:  realistic aging.  (was Re: Aging in MMT4...)

> From: David Blustein <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
> To: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
> Subject: Re: Aging in MMT4...
> Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 10:57 AM

First of all, thanks to both David and Greg for pointing out my sheer lack
of mathematical talent and trying to keep my public embarrassment to a
minimum...  ;-)

> I believe the progression looks something like:
> 
>      Age     Throw
> 
>      35       3-
>      40       4-
>      45       4-
>      50       5-
>      55       5-
>      60       6-

> Rolling equal to or below the throw results in the loss of one point 
> from a single personal characteristic.

> Awkward wording makes the rule difficult to understand. :-(

No, sleeping through high school algebra, trig, college calc I & II, etc.
are what caused my lack of understanding...  It would have helped had I
noticed that the example age was 50 not 35 (which I, for some
alien-infested reason thought it was)...  *bonk self*

I'm not sure I like this new rule...  It begins INT degradation much
earlier than previously, and it makes ALL characters equally likely to age,
rather than those with higher ability scores...  Hmmm.  If INT degradation
is supposed to reflect senility et al, and it begins at age 35 along with
weakening STR, DEX, and END...  Oh, that explains my predicament handily. 
;-)  But..

RFC:  is the new rule more realistic than the TNE/House rule?


david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:49:25 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about jump drives

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Mike Lee wrote:

> Hi, All-
> 
>         Pardon the sudden interjection, but I've got a question that relates
> to a JTAS adventure I'm writing.  How does a starship generate the energy
> sufficient to engage the jump drive?  Does it have to be accumulated in a
> series of capacitors, then released, or does it come directly from the
> ship's power plant?  My research so far has turned up conflicting answers.
> I need information relative to T4, obviously.

	Canon (TNE, and FFS IIRC, derived from DGP Starship Operators
manual)states that the power for a jump is generated by a special fusion
plant that dumps a LOT of power into a huge bank of zuchai-crystal
capacitors, which then power the jump drive. T4 states nothing like that
AFAIK, but since T4 more-or-less follows canon, I would guess that this is
what happens. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 12:11:26 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: QSDS Discount

[Note: NOT an official answer of any kind; just a report on what I'm doing]

John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
> David Blustein wrote:
> >As a referee, I like to give the design discount to standard designs
> >(as opposed to giving the discount for simply using standard modules),
> >since standard designs produced in quantity deserve a discount.
> I propose that all components in all systems be given the same 
> pricing.  Then, after the ship is designed, the ref can decide whether 
> the ship class qualifies for one of the "bulk" discounts.

It's worth noting that QSDS 1.x, as published, gives you this option without
a lot of trouble.  All of the tables in QSDS show the full price for every
component; the QSDS construction rules tell you to give QSDS ships a
discount once they are constructed.

With this organization, it's easy to change the procedure and do as you say:
certain designs (designated by the referee) qualify for discounts, based on
the number of examples produced and current market conditions.  All other
ships are built at full list price.  IF you know that a ship was built with
QSDS rules, you can use the discounted price to figure the full list price,
and then apply whatever cost modifier is appropriate to your campaign.

> The justification for the discount is that QSDS is made up of a small
> number of standardized components that are mass produced and used widely. 
> The usefulness of QSDS as a system, however, is dependent on how flexible
> it is and the number of different options it offers.  But the more hull
> sizes and power plant capacities that are offered the less the "mass
> production" discount makes sense.

This is true, and in the next version of QSDS, I want to give ship designers
a lot more options than they have now.

It's an open secret that I'm working on a new version of QSDS.  The comments
from people who have used QSDS 1.x over the last six months have been
invaluable in shaping the new edition, and I'm strongly considering doing
several things differently.  Your point is very valid, and one thing that
I'd like to do in the next version of QSDS is to give ship designers a lot
more options than they have now (*).

One option under consideration will be to provide a list of _TRULY_ standard
components: in other words, I'll go through the published "standard" designs
and pull out the components used in those ships.  Only these components
would qualify for the mass-production discount (which would be pre-computed
and the discounted price listed in the tables).  Thus, you could construct a
ship with (say) a 100-ton Scout/Courier hull, install a jump drive from a
Far Trader and see what kind of performance you've got.


One thing I can do to provide more options without increasing the number and
size of LITs (Large, Intimidating Tables) in the system is to provide some
of the formulas, so that non-standard components can be custom-designed.
These formulas would be simpler than FF&S (though based on the formulas in
that book, simplified by removing detail and combining related steps).

There would still be tables of standard components (just like the current
QSDS), but the tables wouldn't grow significantly in the new version.  The
formula approach would similar to Classic Traveller's "High Guard" design
system, and would also allow you to build ships larger than 5000 dtons,
or smaller than 100 dtons.


(*) Note: I've gotten three general kinds of comments about QSDS: the first
is when someone notifies me of an error in the system.  These are very
useful, and the next version of QSDS has all the errors (at least, all the
ones I know about) fixed.  The second kind of comment (and by far the most
common) is a request for more options and more flexability.  The third kind
of comment is a request to make QSDS even simpler, because it's too complex.
I'm not sure I'll be able to satisfy _everyone_ with the next version, but I
think it'll be greatly improved.


Here's the outline of what I'm working on; comments are greatly appreciated:

QSDS 2.0
  1) Introduction and explanation of terms
  2) Quick Starship Design
     The design goals for this iteration of QSDS is to allow most or all
     "standard" [*] ships to be built with Quick Design.  A Quick Design
     ship should take well under an hour for the first-time designer, and
     ten to fifteen minutes for an experienced designer.  No tools except
     a pencil and a single sheet of paper (no calculator), and the only
     math required would be addition and subtraction of decimal numbers.
     A) Hull Table
        Much like the current table, though length will be noted for use
        with an expanded table of spinal mounts.  There will be more TLs
        represented, but probably fewer hulls at each TL (only those 
        hulls that are used by standard designs).
     B) Drive Tables
        Much like the current system, although perhaps with fewer drives
        in total (to match the hulls presented).  Perhaps add a table of
        pre-computed jump fuel requirements, to eliminate multiplication.
     C) Avionics
        Re-organized, to include:
        - Avionics Packages (avionics, sensors and commo together, like SSDS)
          Packages will be designed to match sensor installations in the 
          standard ships (eg: a basic package, a scoutship package, etc).
        - Add-on Sensors (add individual sensors to Packages)
        - Add-on Communicators (add individual communicators to Pacakges)
        I'm considering moving the add-ons to the Custom section.
     D) Weapons
        Similar to the current QSDS, but with re-designed (more efficient)
        weapons.  This version will include a table of standard missiles (so
        your missile launchers now have ordinance to fire).  Missile weapon
        systems combined into all-in-one packages like lasers are now.
     E) Power
        Power plants and fuel purifiers in standard sizes.
     F) Controls
        Much like the current section, with rules for determining the number
        of crew.  To eliminate multiplication, I may add a set of tables
        that give standard (2-crew, 4-crew) cockpits, and standard-sized
        bridges.
     G) Quarters
        Crew accomodations in standard-size units for installation in
        modular ships (probably in sizes convenient for the standard
        ship designs) to eliminate another multiplication.
  3) Custom Starship Design
     Custom ship design is intended to give advanced designers a MUCH wider
     spectrum of options than either QSDS or SSDS do currently.  The system
     (used in conjunction with Quick Design) should be usable with only a
     pencil, paper, and a basic scientific calculator.  An experienced Quick
     Design user should be able to build their first Custom Design ship in
     under an hour, and experienced Custom Design users should be able to
     construct ships in half that time.  Custom Design will require
     multiplication of decimal numbers.
     A) Rules for building QSDS hulls (including <100 and >5000 dtons).
        This section will include a table of hulls ranging up to a million
        tons.  A calculator that can take cube roots would be required to
        build hulls of sizes that are not on the table.
     B) Rules for installing drives in hulls of any size.
     C) Carried craft, hangars, launch tubes, docking rings, etc.
     D) Weapons:
        - Weapon system components, and rules for building systems
          (individual turrets, MFDs, and other weapon components).
        - Bay and Spinal Mount weapons.
     E) Rules for building custom-sized power plants.
     F) Controls
        - Table of workstations at each TL.
        - Rules for constructing bridges and other control rooms (Combat
          Information Center, Flight Operations, Fire Control, Flag Bridge).
        - Rules for small craft crew (under 100 tons) and large ships
          (over 5000 tons).
     G) Quarters
        - Table of quarters by size and comfort level
        - Guidelines for military and civilian crew quarters, and passenger
          accomodations.

[*] Currently, I'm considering the following ships as "Standard": 100-ton
Scout/Courier; 200-ton Free and Far Traders, 400-ton Subsidized Merchant,
Corsair, System Defense Boat and Patrol Cruiser; 600-ton Subsidized Liner;
800-ton Mercenary Cruiser.  Any suggestions or changes for this list?

Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

In-Reply-To: <970201.180907.5D8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

<< Will one group find the proof first? Will they run into each other at
some remote site? The possibilities are endless. And more fun than
"Raiders of the Lost Ark". >>

Maybe the Vilani were the Traders of the Lost Ark...?

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:39:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Sad Thoughts on Aliens Archive

Well, I'm almost halfway done with converting the races from Aliens
Archive into GURPS templates... and thought I'd point out a few oddities
that I haven't yet seen mentioned.  I have no idea how much of this is Tim
Brown's doing, how much is Ashe Marler or Wildstorm Production's (whoever
they might be), or whether the fault lies elswhere entirely.  Note that
I'm not slamming the book itself or the aliens therein -- I rather like
them, aside from Tim Brown's propensity for beings with more manipulative
hands than the human norm (are we that bad off? :-)  Rather, the art
included in the book is execrable, filled with inconsistencies with the
descriptive text. 

Anyone noticed anything strange about the pictures of The Controlled? 
Page 21 claims "Guy-troy have a heavily muscled, spherical torso."  But
directly below this sentence (!) appears a sketch of an almost elfin
purported Guy-troy skeleton.  The next page states that both arms and legs
are jointed in three places below the shoulder/hip... but the picture's
arms only have two.  Further on, we're told that "they do not have a rigid
spine."  Not according to the graphic artist -- it's right there, on the
distorted humanoid frame apparently dragooned into service, with minor
variations, for each species covered in the volume.

On to the Denaar.  It looks like they inherited the Controlled's missing
joint: p. 29 says "each [hind] leg is jointed at a knee and ankle," but p.
28's illustration seems to have an extra.  Most notably, though, "aside
from the limbs and an extension of the digestive system in the hind-
quarters, the Denaar essentially lives within the carapace." (p. 29). 
Look again at the illo on the page previous.  WHAT IS A HEAD DOING THERE?
For that matter, why do we see a ribcage instead of the constantly-
referred-to carapace?

How about the Graytch?  "The Graytch foot has three manipulative toes,
each opposed against the other two" (sensible for such extraordinary
brachiators).  But p. 37's illustration takes the "spidertaur" label
far too seriously, presenting an all-too-arachnoid single-boned foot (not
too mention a carapaced abdomen rather than the internal skeleton
described -- perhaps they're interbreeding with the Denaar?)  Tim Brown's
a little indistinct with his terminology, here listing Graytch arms as
having joints in "three places: at the shoulder, an elbow, and the wrist."
Again, the skeletal exhibit has an extra.  And while we're at it, the
hands have developed an extra finger.

Need I proceed to the Hana Saka, one of the worst artistic offenses?
These super-evolved starfish receive an extended narration about their
lack of a standard skeleton: instead, they have a distributed and
reconfigurable bone network that allows formation of a joint anywhere
desired.  Why, then, the standard skeleton of p. 46's anatomical drawing,
complete with internally-boned pre-jointed arm- and leg- bones?  No hint
here that these beings, like the Hivers, are descended from radially
symmetrical stock.

That's as far as I'll go for now.  Again, I like these aliens: they're
strange but wonderful, and don't distress my suspension of disbelief too
far at once.  My only quibbles with the text would be the Bye-Ren's
unreasonable mass (did someone forget to convert pounds to kilograms
correctly?), and the literally in-credible speed the average Controlled
can achieve in flight.  I'm also distressed that no modifiers to
statistics are included in the character generation suggestions, even for
super-strong species like the Bye-Ren and Hana Saka.

I'm half inclined to finally sit down and teach myself how to use blobs in
my ray-tracing package (Imagine, by Impulse), to create better drawings
for myself.  Anyone artistically inclined could certainly do the Traveller
community a service by providing these neglected sophonts more artistic
justice.

If anyone wants to check out my new Traveller webpage, it's available at
http://www.io.com/~jlockett/RPG/Traveller/.  So far it's just links to
existing GURPS:Traveller material, the AA racial templates I'm working on,
and my January contest entry, but I hope to keep adding to it.  I've also
tried to produce the prettiest link list in Traveller webdom.  :-)  As
soon as webring.org revives, I hope to get linked into the current
network, with which I'm much impressed!

Again, if others have already raved over these poorly thought-out and
executed illustrations, I apologize.  I've been going over each
description with a fine-toothed comb for the conversion process, and am
just distressed that the artist apparently didn't do the same.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:30:37 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

Bri wrote:

>
>At 07:59 AM 2/2/97 -0800, you wrote:
><snip>
>>Accordingly, I suggest you design a deep-interdiction cruiser especially
>>for the purpose. I'm not familiar with whatever variant on the rules
>>you're using, so I can't advise you on the particulars, but I would
>>suggest the following characteristics:
><snip>
>
> What your forgetting is that while you are busy spending X% of your
>military budget on these intersteller raiders, you are taking X% from your
>defense and his ships(while they might not survive for *years*, they can
>survive for many months without going to port and refueling at gas giants
>and asteroid belts) and just wash over your empire. It would be a pyhrric
>victory at best.
> THis type of thing where you over-concentrate your 'push' into one
>strategy works best against stupid computer opponents :)
>bri <bri@teleport.com>


        Well, on the strategic level, I'd agree.  The DIC idea you're
responding to is IMHO a neat idea and any decent navy ought to have an
equivalent, but basing your entire strategy around them without reference
to the geography or the opponent seems like the sort of thing that would
work on a subroutine, not a human.

        Sir Basil Liddell-Hart's take on how to go about winning a war
(followed to some extent by Guderian in developing the Blitzkrieg and to
the letter by Schwartzkopf in the Gulf) is roughly as follows: grab an
enemy strategic resource right off the bat (obliging him to predictably
attack you to get it back), attain air superiority and pound the crap out
of his logistics and communications with it, and then hit one of his
flanks, isolate, and mop up...

        I can certainly see DIC's fitting in to pounding the crap out of
logistics and communications, and just general hell-raising, annoyance and
demoralization of the civilian populace (imagine a leaflet drop using one:
"Citizen, what you are holding could have been a nuke!  Your government
cannot protect you!  Undermine the evil regime's war effort and save your
children!" etc).  As the whole cornerstone of your fleet, no.  And it
shouldn't be forgotten tthat the higher the jump rating, the bigger it's
going to have to be; SDB's of an equivalent size will be able to defeat it,
since all that volume going to J-drive and j-fuel will instead be going to
weapons, power plants, more weapons, some boarders, a few more weapons,
bigger weapons, etc...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:31:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Jan. Ship design contest again

OK, so I have 4 entries so far. Check out 
http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/jan-entries.html

If anyone else entered the contest and wants their designs posted
up beside everyone else's, please send them to me! ehenry@magma.ca

Thanks, Ethan
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:52:29 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Geonee Timeframe

>Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:06:57 -0400
>From: Christian Razukas <chrisraz@clark.net>
>Subject: Geonee Timeframe
>
>A remember that a TML'r posted a URL for his or her timeline of the Geonee.
>Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>

Hi! My Geonee Timeline is at Scott Galliand's site (I do not have a WWW
page). Check it at:

http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/traveller/index.html

        I am expanding it and there are going to be some minor changes, I
must advise you. In the meanwhile, I continue developing the "Geonee
Sourcebook" and I plan to post some things soon (been very busy lately).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:46:55 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

>It scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in 
>space. (i.e., answers the question, "where are we?")

First-order check (to see if you're in the right system)
  -spectral type of the primary star
  -relative position of supergiant stars

If you're in the right system:
  -position of planets (especially your destination planet, which should
   be pretty close)

If you're in the wrong system:
  -use positions of supergiants to determine which system you're in
   (fortunately, misjumps will only take you 36 parsecs or less away...)

>Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 

Inside a known system, positions of planets and asteroids should give
a reasonably acurate time (as well as locations of features like
continents; a P1 sensor can resolve features a 40 metres across at 
1,000,000 km ranges.) Of course, in a well-known system you'll just tune into
the Imperial equivalent of GPS.

In an unknown system or an empty hex, getting a precision time measurement
will be harder - probably relative motions of a whole bunch of nearby
stars would give you time to within an hour or so; if for some unimaginable
reason you need a more precise time, I'm not sure what you'd do.
Possibly, Imperial standard navigation tapes would include records of 
various transient events that only last a few seconds - gamma ray bursts,
pulsar glitches - and the time of the event as measured in various 
hexes; in a hex further away from the event you could wait until 
you detect it and calculate when you should have seen it based on light-travel
time. Of course, you have to wait for a suitable event, but gamma-ray bursts
detectable by a P1 PEMS (TL10+) sensor suite probably occur several times
a day.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:33:25 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Bribery

>There is some things that i want to wrinkle out concerning the law in
>traveller. The rules simply states that it is easier to bribe someone at
>level 10 than it is at level 3 for example. Or as it is stated in the rules:
>
>"Bribery is generally a Difficult task on a moderate law world, and gets
>one level easier for each level of higher law, and one level harder for
>each level of lower law."

On low law worlds, it isn't bribery; you'll be charged what the market will
bear. Also, on low law worlds, those few illegal items will be so offensive
as to take really cold, obnoxious, B*st*rds to sell it to you, or enough
cash that the seller or permitter will be willing to overlook the heinous
nature of whatever it is you are trying to obtain.

On high law worlds, LOTS of insignificant stuff is illegal, and so it is
easier to get someone to overlook "nuisance" laws, as the perception of the
value of a prohibition drops. Also, it is seemingly assumed thatmore and
more common things require permits, and thus getting them, no matter how
innocuous they seem, is harder to do legally, but slip some cash and
someone will point you to a black market, paperless source.

Basically, as the rules get tighter, people become more willing to overlook
them. As more activity becomes criminal, the punishments must either become
LESS harsh (if not, you reduce your population of available workers) or
non-lethal, non-lazy (IE, non-US, more USSR, more labor camps) work til you
drop. if everyone is under punishment, punishment seems less imposing...
which is why murderers kill murderers in prisons... what are you gonna do,
spank them??? One man I've heard of locally (alaska) said that after his
first month in solitary, he preferred it. So he kept acting up to escape
his undesireable cell-mate by getting sent to solitary. He's out now, no
parole, but released, since he did nothing they could add time for, but
just enough to get sent to solitary.

Examples: it is easier to bribe prison guards (source: 3 different PG's I
know, invalid sample, yes, but anyway) in  rough High security facilities
than in facilitys than in permissive facilities with carpet and cable TV.
The guards I knew all admitted that they felt more compassion for the
prisoners in the harder prison than the soft one. Why? the softer prison's
inmates don't get enough punishment, in the eyes of the guards.

In buisiness: the more powerfull the individual, the more money he makes,
and thus the more money it takes to influence him. However, in high-control
societies, the ability to rise in income generally is lower, as is the
number of  clerks and enforcers at the lower end of the pay scales; thus
the less money is needed to bribe them. If the pay is low enough, they feel
they SHOULD be paid more to "just to their job", and many will get this by
graft, the collecting of bribes to "just do one's job". Only a few fields
in america suffer graft as a rule: Exotic Dancers, Bouncers in Strip
Joints, Dealers in certain casino games, politicians.

American Politics: The higher the political scales, the more we legislate
the ethics. the more we legislate, the more money is spent trying to
influence the politicians; the more you learn how they can be bribed, and
what to bribe them with, by eliminateing the other possibilities, the
easier it is to figure out HOW to bribe them... but it may not be CHEAPER...


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:42:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@IO.COM>
Subject: Re: January Ship Design Contest

Hey, Ethan, you can find mine at the URL:

	http://www.io.com/~jlockett/RPG/Traveller/LTD/abelard.html

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:37:28 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Aging

> From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
> Subject: Re: Aging in MMT4...
> 
> On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, David Reed wrote:
> 
> > The target number for the "saving throw" (does that phrase show my  > >age, or what?) is supposed to be the tens digit of the character's   > >age, beginning at age 35, and then every five years thereafter for   > >STR, DEX, END, and INT...

> No, as you said, it's the _tens digit_ that becomes the target number.
> Thus, at age 35, the target number is 3.  At age 40, the target number >is 4.  And so on.  Of course, unlike with all other tasks in the book, >if you roll less than or equal to the target number on an aging throw, >that means you lose a point (i.e., what would be thought of as a >successful throw in the rest of the book is, in the case of aging, a >failed throw).

> - -Joe

	The aging throw is not backwards, rather you are
rolling_For_The_Aging_Itself to see if age can sucessfully attack the
charecter & weaken him.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:06:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: RE: Sumer, Vilani, Galatica opening mono

>Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:57:10 -0500
>From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
>Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

>Andrew Boulton writes:

>>>    This theory only holds water if you find ziggurats on Vland.
>>
>>Actually, ISTR them popping up all over the place in old Traveller 
>pics...

>   Then you may have something, except explaining why the Terrans never
>found the remains of a ship or any artifacts beyond the usual pottery,
>clay tablets and bronze weapons.

>>>   Of course this plotline was used by Battlestar Galactica to explain
>>> the ancient Egyptians and Greeks.  Anyone remember the opening
>>> monologue?
>>
>>I've heard BG could be coming back...

>   Don't tease me like that...I know that an illustrated version (done
>by Marvel?) has continued the story for years.  I also know that Richard
>Hatch (aka Apollo) has been doing the convention circuit and shopping
>the idea of a revival around Hollywood.  If you have heard anything
>else, I'd love to know what information you have.

>Regards,

>Harold

Let's see, I think I remember the momlogue went something like this....

"Some belive that life here, began out there.  With tribes of humans, which 
may have been the ancestors of the Egyptian's, the Toltec's, or the Myan's. 
 Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man fighting to survive, 
beyond the heavens!"

Wow! Not bad for memorising something neary as old as Traveller itself!
(did that show come out in '77? or '78?)

and the closing monologue...

"Fleeing the Cylon Tyrany, the last Battlestar, Galactica.  Leads a rag-tag 
fugitive fleet on a lonely quest.  A bright shining planet, known as Earth!"

It is very posible to make a traveller/battlestar campain if we say that 
Cmdr. Adamma's lot are the last few surviving Vilani, have to tweak the 
history just a bit tho. ;-).

Yes!  I want to see a new Battlestar Galactica NOW!  If they can do it to 
Starwars, they can do it to BG!  But please wait untill B5 is done, or put 
it on now, but ghods forbid they put it in the same timeslots on diff chans!

Commander X from his office.
(pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #910
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 3 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 911



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Aging
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
Re: Fleet & Melee
[none]
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??
Fifth Frontier War.
Missile Systems for T4
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: HIWG Sites
Re: QSDS Discount
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
Re: January Ship Design Contest
Re: Missile Systems for T4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:47:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Aging

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Peter Newman wrote:

> 	The aging throw is not backwards, rather you are
> rolling_For_The_Aging_Itself to see if age can sucessfully attack the
> charecter & weaken him.  :)


Heheheh.  Good rationalization. :)  That works. 


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 21:27:12 UT
From: "Harry McGowan" <AL_THE_MAD@msn.com>
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

You wrote;

>>*We played Snapshot with homebrew rules before Traveller and have therefore
>>never really used Travellers org systems. The only org system I've used was
>>High Guard for a couple of weeks but as it was very uninspiring when
>>fighting out Scout vs Pirate battles we only used it as a design system.
>>When Striker I came out I scrapped High Guard and made my own design system
>>which I've been rewriting constantly up until today.

I've played all versions of Traveller, I started when I was 12 as an awed 
newbie to roleplaying as a whole. I am know 18, have a copy of T4 and I am 
trying desperately to get a good ship design sequence. I am currently running 
T4 for about 7 players and really need something that works!!!! How about 
posting your system on the mailing list, and letting us all have a good look, 
we can even add some constructive, honest, critisism.....

>>/Backman
>>Aniware AB
>>My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se


Alastair 
9608194m@studnet.gla.ac.uk
or 
AL_THE_MAD@msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:15:56 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Fleet & Melee

At 06:52 PM 2/1/97 PST, you wrote:

>> I'm glad you asked that! Here also in the same case at Gridlore Arms, you
>> will find the 10mm snub pistol.. the HEAP round will give a Damage of 8.
>
>Recoil is a big problem there. I'd use the Acme Industries Fusion
>Lance. 

The snub pistol is a very low velocity weapon.  with a fairly large mass,
the recoil is negligble.  (About half what you would get from a .22 pistol)  

That's the reason for the HEAP round.. the ball rounds don't have enough
*oomph* to really penetrate, and the hollow-points, while providing an
adequate wound cavity, will pancake on tin foil.

<Description of Fusion Lance snipped>

I'd be real wary of using a device designed to cut hull metal in the stress
of a combat situation.  You don't get a second cahnce with a weapon like that.

>This *should* be a possible device, but will the rules allow it?

My crack techs from GT are on it.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:23:56 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [none]

Harold D. Hale wrote:

[snip]

>
>>Other options, are to use ships to tow asteroids into a planetary
>>system and drive them into surface after containing system defences.
>>This would be quite awful, causing tectonic clashes, and destroying a
>>great deal of casualties, effectively neutralising a planet, especialy
>>useful if a planet cannot be controled, too near enemy reinforcements,
>>or took too many casualties during initial assault on system.
>
>   This I believe is a FAQ topic.  Please God, no more .25C or whatever
>rocks from space!


        Hey... this is a really great idea!  if you put a big fusion
generator and some T-plates on the asteroid, and start it going from way
out in the boonies in the Oort cloud, say, you could just pulverize entire
planets!  Woo hoo!


        <don't worry Harold, I'm just kidding!>


        But seriously, though, if you're into mass planetary destruction
(and who isn't?), I'd highly recommend Greg Bear's _Anvil of
<somethingorotherIforget>_:  alien Von Neumann robots invade Earth, start
building a series of *huge* fusion bombs along the undersea rifts between
the tectonic plates, and then drop a big lump of neutronium and a
corresponding lump of anti-neutronium into the planet:  they eventually
sink through to the core (not reacting with the planetary matter since
they're composed of neutral particles), and collide at the center of
gravity, thereby annihilating each other in a particle/antiparticle
reaction, timed to correspond with the fusion bombs detonating along the
fault lines...

        Pop goes the planet!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 17:21:30 PST
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

> At 07:59 AM 2/2/97 -0800, you wrote:
> <snip>
>  
>  What your forgetting is that while you are busy spending X% of your
> military budget on these intersteller raiders, you are taking X% from your
> defense and his ships(while they might not survive for *years*, they can
> survive for many months without going to port and refueling at gas giants
> and asteroid belts) and just wash over your empire. It would be a pyhrric
> victory at best.
>  THis type of thing where you over-concentrate your 'push' into one
> strategy works best against stupid computer opponents :)
> bri <bri@teleport.com>
> 
You are ignoring several real world considerations, like most chairborne
wargame lawyers usually do.  Sometimes these types of opponents are even
worse than stupid computer opponents.

Attacking an enemy's LOC has been successfully used throughout history. 
Hannibal, Moresby Raiders, Wolfpacks, French Resistance, Desert Rats,
VietCong, and Desert Storm are all example of the successful employment of
attacks against the enemy lines of communications.  Just because none of
the Traveller Combat systems take command and control (C2), lines of
communications, nor public opinions into account, does not detrack from
this being an great strategy in many instances.  Two examples: a delaying
action by an inferior force; and a supportive strategy as part of an
economy of force campaign.  They are many other examples, when this could
be effectively used.  The Yugoslav Resistance Fighters tied down 10 German
divisions during the war.  The wolfpacks and surface raiders tried up the
majority of the American and British fleets during the Battle of the
Atlantic.  Think of the ratio of tonnage for the battle.  The mere
possibility of a surface raider sent fear through convoys.  

Just because Traveller Rules don't accurately portray this doesn't mean
that it is a poor strategy.  It might very well mean that they are poor
rules for large scales operations (hmmm).  Imagine that!

JD
Twolf   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:15:27 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Fifth Frontier War.

Can anyone remember how Fifth Frontier War handled communications? I have
vague recollections that it was an abstract time delayed system, but would
appreciate it if someone could enlighten me further!

- -Dom-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 2 Feb 97 22:01:55 -0500
From: "Jeff Kazmierski" <odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Missile Systems for T4

  Much has been discussed on the subject of space missiles for MMT, but
little has been actually done.  With the release of both Starships and the
Central Supply Catalog, we have the tools necessary to build reasonably
effective missile systems for Traveller, with a little effort.  I've
compiled some of the tables and data that I feel are relevant to the
subject, and combined them into what I think is a good system for designing
missiles.  The tables and numbers are all taken from Starships, Central
Supply Catalog, and Fire, Fusion & Steel.  The only exception is the T4
data for High Explosive warheads (Part II), which I tried to translate
between FF&S and VDS.  
  The rules for maneuvering HE missiles are my own invention.
  So, without further ado, I'll present my T4 Missile Design System.  Take
a look and tell me what you think; the full text will be up on my web page
later this
week.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----

I.  Missile Hulls

  Space Missiles use a standardized hull form of Streamlined Cylinder,
displacing 0.5 Tons (7 cubic meters).

Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons

Volume = 7.0 kl
Factor = 0.195
Area =  19.5 square meters
Length = 4.7 meters
Width  = 1.4 meters
Height = 1.4 meters
Price = x0.8MCr

Base Structure = 2.726 kl (14Gs)
Base Armor     = 0.002 kl (0.01 cm, AV x0.2)

TL-10 Hull (Crystaliron)
               Volume   Mass   Price
Structure      0.303    3.029  Cr21,816
Armor          0.002    0.020  Cr   144
Total          0.305    3.049  Cr21,960

TL-12 Hull (Superdense)
Structure      0.248    3.717  Cr27,756
Armor          0.002    0.030  Cr   224
Total          0.250    3.747  Cr27,980

TL-14 Hull (Bonded Superdense)
Structure      0.195    2.921  Cr43,616
Armor          0.002    0.030  Cr   448
Total          0.197    2.951  Cr44,064


II.  Missile Warheads

Nuclear Warheads

  X-Ray laser nuclear detonation warheads are the standard military weapon
system.  They are extremely destructive, expensive and effective.  Because
of this, they are restricted in sale to military units.  All values listed
below are taken directly from Fire, Fusion and Steel.

Yield:  Damage:    Volume by Tech Level:
                   9-10   11-12  13-14  15     MCr
 20kt   1-0 (x1d6) 0.195  0.160  0.132  0.103  0.60
 50kt   2-0 (x1d6) 0.265  0.220  0.188  0.147  0.90
100kt   3-0 (x1d6) 0.505  0.388  0.358  0.247  1.20
Ranged Damage      0/0    0/0    0/0    0/1    x10, vol x2

Volume:  in cubic meters
Mass:  warheads mass 1 tonne per kl
Range:  Normally, nuclear x-ray warheads only damage targets within the
same hex as the detonation itself.  At TL-15, the range can be extended to
the six hexes adjacent to the detonation hex by doubling the volume and
mass of the warhead.  The number of hits is reduced to 1d6-3 and damage is
halved (1-0, 2-1 and 3-1 for each size).  The warhead's price is multiplied
by x10.


High Explosive Warheads

  HE warheads are used in missiles available for civilian use.  Using them
requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
kilometers, and require a short-range fuzing laser to arm the warhead for
detonation.  Maneuvering the missile into prime detonation range is a
Formidable Gunnery task, modified by the following DMs:
     DM -2 per MP spent by defending ship on evasion
     DM -1 per 1/2 light-second (5 hexes) of range between each ship
     DM +1 per MP spent by gunner in missile maneuvering
Outstanding results cause 1d3 additional hits to the target.  If more than
one ship is in the target hex, the gunner must choose one to attack.

Mass = 2500 kg (2.5 tons)
Volume = 0.5 kiloliters
Type = HE Proximity Fuzed Prefragmented
Damage = Contact: 9  Distance: 1
         Blast Radius = 4000km
FFS Damage Stats: C:400 B:4000
Price = Cr125,000

Fuzing Lidars

Range            Power    MCr   Volume by Tech Level     Area
                                8     10    12    14    
Regional (30km)  0.001MW  0.16  0.090 0.030 0.010 0.005  0.001
                          Mass: 0.180 0.060 0.020 0.010
                          
                          
III.  Missile Propulsion

  Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10 and
Thrusters at TL-12.  HEPlaR requires fuel and has a limited endurance, but
the engines are inexpensive and take up little space.  Thrusters are often
used in military missiles and have longer range, but are much more
expensive.  All values listed below are from Starships.

TL  Type       Thrust    Mass  Volume  Area  Power  MCr    FC
10  HEPlaR     100 tons  0.5   0.5     1.0   5.0    0.005  1.25 kl/hour
LHyd
12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant fuel


IV.  Power Plants

  All missiles use inexpensive Fusion+ power plants from the Central Supply
Catalog.  Often they carry more fuel than is necessary to power the missile
for its operational duration.

TL  Type    MW/kl  Mass/kl  MCr/kl  Area/kl  FC/kl    Fuel
                                             (100hr)
10  Fusion+ 3.0    2.0      0.010   3.0      0.150    H2O+
11  Fusion+ 3.8    2.0      0.010   3.8      0.150    H2O+
12  Fusion+ 4.8    2.0      0.010   4.8      0.150    H2O+
13  Fusion+ 6.0    1.5      0.010   6.0      0.150    H2O+
14  Fusion+ 7.7    1.5      0.010   7.7      0.150    H2O+
15  Fusion+ 9.8    1.0      0.010   9.8      0.150    H2O+


V.  Electronics
 
  Electronics is a catch-all category for guidance systems, communications,
sensors and computers.  All electronic systems are added according to
values listed in the Central Supply Catalog.
  Communications systems installed are typically military grade, small
vehicle Maser or Laser comms (regardless of military or civilian design). 
All missiles require at least one communicator for telemetry and command
guidance.  Redundant systems may be added if deemed necessary.
                                                     Volume
     Maser Comms        Power    Area  Price  TL8    TL10   TL12   TL14
     FarOrbit (10 hex)  0.100MW  0.1   45000  0.015  0.010  0.005  0.001
                                       Mass:  0.030  0.020  0.010  0.002
     
  Guidance computers must be installed for the missile to have any
independence.  Without one, the missile must be targeted and guided by a
live gunner.  Guidance computers must be of Rating-3 or better, at the
appropriate tech level.  Intelligent missiles have a Gunnery skill level
equal to the rating of the computer minus 3.
     Rating 3 Computers:                Rating 4 Computers:
     TL-10  60kg  0.060kl  MCr0.060     
     TL-11  20kg  0.020kl  MCr0.020     TL-11  100kg  0.100kl  MCr0.200
     TL-12  10kg  0.010kl  MCr0.010     TL-12   50kg  0.050kl  MCr0.100
     TL-13   7kg  0.007kl  MCr0.007     TL-13   35kg  0.035kl  MCr0.070
   
  Sensors are military grade, small vehicle sensors.  The sensor type
required is determined by the role of the missile.  All missiles require a
Fuzing Lidar (listed above) for the gunner to place the missile within
optimal detonation range, but better sensors are installed at the
designer's option.
  Passive sensors are used in "silent kill" missiles.  They home in on
either the enemy ship's electromagnetic or Infrared emissions or use the
firing ship's active sensors to track the target.  Combined with
Thruster-based propulsion, passive seeker missiles can be an extremely
fast, stealthy, deadly weapon system.
                                                     Volume
     Sensors          Power    Area  MCr  TL8    TL10   TL12   TL14
     Orbital Passive   0.01MW  0.01  2.3  2.100  0.800  0.200  0.050
     FarOrbit Passive  0.10MW  0.10  7.0  6.300  2.100  0.700  0.250
     Orbital Active    1.00MW 10.00  2.3  2.100  0.800  0.200  0.050
     Orbital Nuclear   1.00MW 10.00 23.0  2.100  0.800  0.200  0.050
     Orbital Gravitic  1.00MW  0.10 11.5  2.100  0.800  0.200  0.050
     FarOrbit Grav    10.00MW  1.00 35.0  -----  2.100  0.700  0.250
     
  Active sensors are installed in independently homing missiles.  They
enable the missile to track and home on a target without the necessity of a
gunner's commands.  
  Gravitic sensors can be installed if the missile is intended to be used
as a semi- intelligent space mine.  The missile can loiter at the edge of a
mined system operating on minimal power, only becoming active when a
Thruster-equipped ship is detected by the missile's sensors.
  All missiles have IFF (Identify Friend and Foe) systems installed as part
of their guidance and sensor systems.

Guidance Type    Requirements
Command only     Fuzing Lidar, Laser/Maser Comm, MFD on ship
Active Seeker    Active sensor system of Orbital range or better
Passive Seeker   Passive sensor system of Orbital range or better


VI.  Math Stuff

Accelleration = Thrust / Mass

Endurance (in hours) = Fuel /
FC

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
  That's it for now.  Next, a collection of missile systems I've designed
using this system.  

Jeff Kazmierski
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 17:48:08 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

"David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG> wrote:
> A ship exits jumpspace.  It scans astronomical "markers" to find its current
> location in space.  Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current
> location in time. 
> 
> I'm simply interested in knowing if we're aware of any astronomical 
> phenomenon that could be used in the manner I've described.

Yes, there are.  Pulsars.

As I understand it (and I'm no astronomer, so I'm ready to be corrected by
some of the astronomers on the list), the things are radio objects, and can
be observed by a radiotelescope (or passive EMS array, on a Traveller
starship).  Each one produces radio pulses with a distinct pulse rate, and
they (very slowly) "run down" over time.

Pulsars are located all over the galaxy, so a ship can emerge from jumpspace
practically anywhere and measure the angles and distances to known pulsars.
Since the pulsar's pulse rate is a known function of time (or distance from
the pulsar - which is really the same thing), the ship's location in time
and space can be computed by triangulation, and by comparing an accurate
timebase with the pulsar's pulses.

One of the little-publicized, but very important jobs of the Scout Service
is the benchmarking survey.  In such a survey, a scoutship jumps to a star
system, and collects data.  In addition to determining the basic
characteristics of the star and it's planets, they also observe pulsars, and
take very careful observations of nearby stars with known locations. 

This allows the Service to publish navigational information that lists
the pulsars that can be observed from that system, and their
characteristics.  The scout service can also compute the star's motion
through the galaxy, and the planets orbits around the star, to enable later
navigators to make accurate jumps into the system.

The scout service probably also undertakes deep exploration missions,
outside the borders of the Imperium, in the directions of the most useful
pulsars.  This allows the Scout Service to verify their projections of the
pulsar's changes in pulse rate, and allows accurate charts within Imperial
space for decades to come.

> Accuracy need only be light-seconds or minutes (initially) for its 
> location in space, and seconds or minutes for its location in time. 

This should be do-able ... any astronomers out there want to check me?


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 23:29:07 GMT
From: starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf)
Subject: Re: HIWG Sites

On Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:40:14 -0800, David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
wrote:

>Anybody know what happened to the HIWG website? I've tried to access
>it and the Australian mirror site and get messages stating that they
>no longer exist.
>

It's still up and running. The address has been changed to:=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf/HIWG/

I think I posted a notice of it a month ago.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Myhre                 |"Never worry about theory as long as the=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf | machinery does what it's supposed to do."
Universal Internet          |
            Number: 127772  |                  -- R. A. Heinlein

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:28:05 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: QSDS Discount

Derek wildstar wrote:
>John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>David Blustein wrote:
>>>As a referee, I like to give the design discount to standard designs
>>>(as opposed to giving the discount for simply using standard modules),
>>>since standard designs produced in quantity deserve a discount.
>>
>>I propose that all components in all systems be given the same 
>>pricing.  Then, after the ship is designed, the ref can decide whether 
>>the ship class qualifies for one of the "bulk" discounts.
> 
>It's worth noting that QSDS 1.x, as published, gives you this option without
>a lot of trouble.  All of the tables in QSDS show the full price for every
>component; the QSDS construction rules tell you to give QSDS ships a
>discount once they are constructed.

Funny, that was one of the things I was going to suggest you change in the
next version of QSDS. I think the 25% discount should be _included_ in the
prices. Otherwise you get into trouple when you build a ship partly from
standard QSDS parts and partly from custom-designed parts because you can't
then apply a blanket 25% discount to the whole ship (unless you first 
multiply the price of the custom-designed bits by 1/3rd, which, I think
you'll agree, would be ugly. Besides, why impose the extra calculation of
the 25% deduction if it isn't necessary? 

One suggestion about discounts for multiple ships: Remember that in _TCS_
you get a full _40_ % discount for second and subsequent ships:? I suggest
that for single QSDS and part QSDS ships you only get the 25% discount on
the QSDS parts, but that for second and subsequent ships that are part of a 
production run, you get a further 20% price reduction. That would make the
total discount for such ships 40% (80% of 75% = 60%). Finally, let all
ships, including custom-designed ones, count as if made of standard modules
if they are part of a production run of more than some minimum size, say 20. 

That way you get a situation not too far from the old _TCS_ rules (The only 
place where there would be a difference is with custom-designed ships produced
in quantities less than 20 (or whatever). And my impression is that most
_TCS_ designs were produced in big lots. 

Another advantage is that the Free Trader (which with QSDS costs roughly 25%
more than an old CT Free Trader) with a further price reduction of 20% comes
down in price to something close to the CT price. I haven't tried to check
the designs of the other standard ships, but I would suspect that they, too,
would be somewhat more expensive than their CT counterparts.

What do you think?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:34:05 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

Anders Backman writes:

>Well, you cannot beat GURPS in flexibility. Most capaign settings are
>already published so you don't have to create them yourself.

   Assuming that you can find them.  It's been my experience that Steve
Jackson Games releases a campaign setting, then allows it to go out of
print pretty quickly.  It you don't catch it in the game store the first
time around, chances are you won't see it again.

>GURPS doesn't have a task system but has much more rules than TNE which
>somewhat alleviate this problem.

   More rules are a good thing?  My biggest beef with GURPs has to do
with the 1 second combat rounds, which seem unrealistically short.

>FF&S is randomly cobbled together with high detail in some parts and no
>detail at all in others. Also, most of the detail in design system is 
>lost when playing as there are no rules for most of the stuff you put
>in.

   If you aren't using all the stuff you've installed, it's because you
don't have a group of players trying to get everything they can out of
their ship.  I have found that my players are constantly looking for new
ways to use the equipment that is on their ship, and from time to time I
reward their creativity.   

>The heplar thrusters and semi magical virus changes the underlying 
>reality behind the game that makes SDB's useless. This partly 
>invalidates the history.

   I have found the opposite to be true: SDB are nasty vessels when
they are used correctly.  They are employed best when *surprise* they
are used for ambushes near planets or in asteroid fields.  Simply equip
them with a really good passive EMS array, give them some sensor drones
and missiles to deploy, and they can take out ships many times their
size.

   Virus is only semi-magical if you ignore the classic Traveller
adventure Signal GK.  Virus is nothing more or less than a logical
extension of the silicon-based lifeform featured in that story.

>I agree that TNE was the best game system for Traveller by GDW but the
>setting was more space fantasy than old traveller, perhaps to lure 
>Vampire players to traveller?

   Given the egg that MT laid (let's face it--the DGP stuff was good,
but MT overall did not live up to classic Traveller's sales figures),
and the prevailing mood among the staff that something *different* had
to be done in the way of storyline, the post-Collapse milieu was one
possible logical result (though as I have previously indicated, it was
perhaps not the best result for customer retention purposes).

>The problem is that I've yet to meet a Traveller referee that uses any
>GDW system.

   Well I'm one.  If by this comment you mean that no referee runs a
*pure* by the book game, you're probably right.  I have added my own
little touches here and there like everyone else.  Some of them come
from other GDW games (i.e. equipment from Twilight:2000), but others are
my own creation (i.e. sniper rules).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:41:57 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:


[snip]
>
>        But, that's not all. The adventure starts speaking of a new
>MEGAcorporation, Baabac Enterprises. Funny. I thought all the megacorps were
>already accounted for in the Referee's Companion (?)
[snip]

        Can't be; they missed Famille Spofulam, not to mention YugoShips PLC ;).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:41:47 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: January Ship Design Contest

Ethan Henry wrote:

>
>To anyone who entered the January ship design contest: I'd like
>to archive all of the entries on my web page. If you're interested in having
>your design put up, please email me a copy of your entry or tell me where
>I can download a copy and I'll put it up.


        I've been meaning to suggest this for days, but kept on forgetting:
Wildstar, why don't you post all entries to the list, not just the winner
and a runner-up?  I'd be really interested in seeing how other people
addressed the problem (other than the usual Famille Spofulam massive
overkill route that I took), and I'm sure others would be too; it'd make
for some fun discussion-fodder.

        Anyone else with me on this?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:28:51 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4

Jeff Kazmierski wrote:
> 
> I.  Missile Hulls
> 
>   Space Missiles use a standardized hull form of Streamlined Cylinder,
> displacing 0.5 Tons (7 cubic meters).

Why "streamlined" if they're being used in the vacuum of space?


> Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons
> 
> Volume = 7.0 kl
> Factor = 0.195
> Area =  19.5 square meters
> Length = 4.7 meters
> Width  = 1.4 meters
> Height = 1.4 meters
> Price = x0.8MCr
> 
> Base Structure = 2.726 kl (14Gs)
> Base Armor     = 0.002 kl (0.01 cm, AV x0.2)

Is there a minimum AV required of starships as protection against
cosmic radiation, micrometeoroid, etc.? If so, shouldn't it be
required of missiles to ensure their electronics don't get damaged
until detonation?
 

> II.  Missile Warheads
> 
> Nuclear Warheads
<snip>
> same hex as the detonation itself.  At TL-15, the range can be extended to
> the six hexes adjacent to the detonation hex by doubling the volume and
> mass of the warhead.  The number of hits is reduced to 1d6-3 and damage is

Does the number of hits reduction mean that a successful Gunnery roll
can
still result in no hits (not sure I like this, especially when using an
expensive, effective nuke) or is a minimum of one hit assumed?


> High Explosive Warheads
> 
> requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
> kilometers, and require a short-range fuzing laser to arm the warhead for
> detonation.  Maneuvering the missile into prime detonation range is a
> Formidable Gunnery task, modified by the following DMs:
>      DM -2 per MP spent by defending ship on evasion
>      DM -1 per 1/2 light-second (5 hexes) of range between each ship
>      DM +1 per MP spent by gunner in missile maneuvering
> Outstanding results cause 1d3 additional hits to the target.  If more than
> one ship is in the target hex, the gunner must choose one to attack.
> 
> Mass = 2500 kg (2.5 tons)
> Volume = 0.5 kiloliters
> Type = HE Proximity Fuzed Prefragmented
> Damage = Contact: 9  Distance: 1
>          Blast Radius = 4000km

Why have a fusing laser? Why not have the missile arm automatically soon
after being launched or as part of the launching procedure? Per FF&S,
each
missile turret contains its own target guidance laser. Also, the text
lists a blast radius of 4 km but the stats after the text list a blast
radius of 4000 km.


> III.  Missile Propulsion
> 
>   Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10 and
> Thrusters at TL-12.  HEPlaR requires fuel and has a limited endurance, but
> the engines are inexpensive and take up little space.  Thrusters are often
> used in military missiles and have longer range, but are much more
> expensive.  All values listed below are from Starships.
> 
> TL  Type       Thrust    Mass  Volume  Area  Power  MCr    FC
> 10  HEPlaR     100 tons  0.5   0.5     1.0   5.0    0.005  1.25 kl/hour
> LHyd
> 12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant fuel

Hmmm...I'd personally want any missile I fire to be able to maneuver
regardless of the distance from a gravity well. Thrusters degrade
rapidly
in the outer reaches of some star systems. They would be stealthier
than HEPlaR, as you stated elsewhere, but only if the target doesn't
have
gravitic sensors.


>   Gravitic sensors can be installed if the missile is intended to be used
> as a semi- intelligent space mine.  The missile can loiter at the edge of a
> mined system operating on minimal power, only becoming active when a
> Thruster-equipped ship is detected by the missile's sensors.

Combine a PEMS array with the gravitic sensor and the missile becomes
much
more flexible with a wider possible range of targets.

All in all, I really like the direction your post is going. Enough
detail to
satisfy the gearhead in me and fast-moving for my referee side. Can't
wait
to see the rest!

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #911
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 4 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 912



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
Re: Mayday
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Aging in MMT4...
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: TCS Discount
Re: Fifth Frontier War.
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: QSDS Discount
Ironclads
Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
A different take on jump drives

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:19:14 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

> Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> >
> >        But, that's not all. The adventure starts speaking of a new
> >MEGAcorporation, Baabac Enterprises. Funny. I thought all the megacorps were
> >already accounted for in the Referee's Companion (?)
> [snip]
> 
>         Can't be; they missed Famille Spofulam, not to mention YugoShips PLC ;).

Right! :)  And all joking aside, I think there's plenty of room for more 
MegaCorps in the Traveller universe.  Think of the number of major, 
multinational corporations in our own world.  Known Space is huge; 
there's plenty of room.

Another aspect is that, over the history of the Third Imperium, several 
MegaCorps could have risen and fallen prior to the years in which we're 
used to playing.  


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:00:15 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Mayday

At 10:47 am 02/04/97 +1100, David JAQUES-WATSON said:
>Yes. Can you please answer my [OFFICIAL] question below (the bit between 
>the dashed lines).
>
>When you reply back to me, you may also want to clip the full text of the 
>question, and send a cc to the TML. I know _at least_ one other person who 
>is interested in the response (Peter Bodley - just imagine, I have actually 
>*worked* with someone who is on the list!!!)
>
>
>---------------
>Dear Folks -
>
>1. [OFFICIAL] QUESTION TIME
>
>How does the armour in CSC (Central Supply Catalog) equate with the armour 
>in QSDS/SSDS/etc? And how do the weapons equate?

	They don't. Not at all. And that's unfortunate.

	During the rather hectic one week in which we had to design SSDS for Don
Perrin, we repeatedly asked which portions of FF&S were going to change
significantly. The only areas we were told to change were: fusion plant
minimum sizes (below TL12: x10), thruster plates (back as official
technology; cost x0.25), jump fuel (back to 10% per Jn) and contragravity
effects (back to providing lift AND thrust).

	I (and others) knew that Greg Porter would be designing Vehicles and
Weapons. Knowing that he was the author of "Guns, Guns, Guns," we figured
he would probably have a different perspective on weapons performance (and
hence armor ratings) than FF&S, and we asked (ad nauseam) for some guidance
as to how to handle them.

	All we got back from Don was "Stick with FF&S, with minimal changes as
absolutely necessary. We're coming out first; everybody after us will have
to conform to what we do with Starships. Greg will live with it." It was
frustrating, because I already had an idea as to what was coming, but I
hoped it was true.

	That was quite apparently NOT fully subscribed to by everybody at IG. For
what it's worth, at GenCon Greg showed me how he came up with the
(thickness)^0.33 factor, and it seemed reasonable. He had some research
results showing the penetration in steel of various size solid projectiles
at different velocities from just after WWII, and that's the equation that
matched best.

	However, he also chose quite different values for all the toughness
ratings for the materials. His rationale was that those values made things
work out the way he wanted. Originally, he didn't see any need to have
consistency between starships and planetary combat ratings--how often would
anybody shoot a personal weapon at a spacecraft? The list tried to convince
him, quite often.

>So, what is the answer? If I fire my CSC heavy tank's main gun at a QSDS or 
>SSDS starship, what happens?

	You ain't gonna like this answer:

	1 Take the SSDS armor value from the USP, convert it back to the original
rating (if necessary). That gives you the equivalent centimeters of steel
that FF&S used as its rating system. 

	2 Look up the material toughness for the armor type from FF&S

	3 Divide the armor rating by the toughness rating. This gives you the
actual thickness of the armor.

	4 Raise that thickness to the 1/3 power.

	5 Look up the material toughness rating from Vehicles.

	6 Multiply the new toughness rating by the result of step 4. That gives
you the new armor rating.

	As for what the results of the hit will be, can't say.

This disconnect is something that needs to be fixed in NAH, but how hasn't
been determined yet. It shouldn't require any serious changes in the design
sequence itself--that's just based on the hull thickness and material type.
But how the armor is rated at the end should be fairly easy to change.

And we may have the opportunity... remember the announcement about planned
fixes to the Starships book.

- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:54:01 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

>>Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
>
>Inside a known system, positions of planets and asteroids should give
>a reasonably acurate time (as well as locations of features like
>continents; a P1 sensor can resolve features a 40 metres across at 
>1,000,000 km ranges.) Of course, in a well-known system you'll just tune into
>the Imperial equivalent of GPS.

The "Imperial GPS" is what I have always done in my campaigns; or more 
precisely the "Local System GPS", as I have always thought that a 
universal time for an empire that it takes years to traverse was pointless.
When you come out of jump, local time is all that you (usually) are concerned
with....

I have also always pictured the 3rd Imperium's version of Western Union (the
xboat messaging service) as having a bank of readouts like the walls of 
clocks that you used to see behind the newscasters in ancient TV 
broadcasts... the ones with all the different times and the labels that read 
"Paris", "Rome", "London", etc... Only these would be calendar dates, two
for each planet on the xboat route: one listing the date for any incoming 
packets, and one for the date of any outgoing packets. F'rinstance, for a 
planet 2 jumps away "Now" on that planet for any incoming messages is 
Jan 20th, and "Now" for any outgoing messages is Feb 17th (estimates, of 
course, unless your house rules define jump time exactly).... While any ol'
space dog worth his salt knows this intuatively, it helps remind the yokels 
about relativity and all that....

(He goes off chortling into the kitchen, to have his girlfriend look up and sigh
"Oh, God, you're playing with that *math* game again...."  :-)   )

- -Paul Darius (pauld@athens.net)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:10:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Aging in MMT4...

> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:42:20 -0600
> From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
> 
> Just out of curiosity, since I've finally decided to give MMT4 a chance... 
> How the heck are the new aging rules supposed to work?
[snip]
> The target number for the "saving throw" (does that phrase show my age, or
> what?) is supposed to be the tens digit of the character's age, beginning
> at age 35, and then every five years thereafter for STR, DEX, END, and
> INT...
> 
> In effect, just alternating target numbers between 5 and 0 every five
> years... 5 at 35, 0 at 40, 5 at 45...  which seems a bit silly at this time
> of day.  Is the 0 intended to be 10?  Am I missing something?

Congrats, you've just made my "You Know You've Been Up Too Long When"
list...and don't be offended, most of the entries involve me personally.
The saving throw (ah, memories) involves the *tens* digit, not the
*units*...so the sequence is a more reasonable 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6 and so
forth.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:25:56 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

> From: David Blustein <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
> To: TML <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Subject: Re: Measurement Systems
> Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 10:30 AM

Step II:
> Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
> (i.e., answers the question, "when are we?")  [note: these "markers" 
> may or may not be the same as the first step]

Hmmm...  Not sure if the would SOP even on military ships unless the
likelihood of time distortion was "relatively" high...  [All puns should be
ignored when discussing Einsteinian physics.  -ed.]

> I'm simply interested in knowing if we're aware of any astronomical 
> phenomenon that could be used in the manner I've described. I'm 
> completely uninterested in replacing the Imperial calendar. This is 
> more of a "what if"?

I'm not an expert on pulsars, but I believe that they have a variable
period over time, and it would require a sufficient measurement interval to
determine "when" in the flux table we were...

This could be problematic...

GM: "Your jump took slightly less than the normal time, about six hours,
according to the ship clock.  It should be 211-13, 17:00 localtime..."

<interlude>

GM: "Welcome to HighPort Donnelly.  It is 204-13, 20:00 localtime.  What is
your cargo and destination..."

<pregnant pause>

PC: "@#$& it!  We're here before we left again, guys..."

That is all assuming that with the general and special theories of
relativity that we could EVER get any clock synchronized on an
Imperium-wide scale...  ;-(  Could just be that the local time/date
variance is about 24 hours...

I think that Mr. Blustein has a very important and valuable question...  If
the Xboat network is too unreliable to set the time, what do we use?

> Accuracy need only be light-seconds or minutes (initially) for its 
> location in space, and seconds or minutes for its location in time. 
> Initial observations should assure an astrogator that all is well. 
> Continued observations should allow greater accuracy in space/time 
> location.

Can't think of any...

> I figure it should work something like WWV radio broadcasts 
> available here and now.

I'd use the Xboat network to set these things...  but then I'd recommend a
standard, unwavering "Jumps take 164.37896...<ad naseum> hours.  Period."

Come to think of it, that could create an entirely new mathematical
constant...  Anyone know of a nonterminal, nonrepeating decimal in that
general value range?  Didn't think so...  Now you do!!!  I hereby dub it
_Reed's j_, the universal jump time constant.  Heh.

<dons flame proof astrogator's suit>


david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:28:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:30:08 -0600
> From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
> 
> A ship exits jumpspace.
[snip]
> It scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
> (i.e., answers the question, "when are we?")  [note: these "markers" 
> may or may not be the same as the first step]
[first step was finding location in space]
> 
> I'm simply interested in knowing if we're aware of any astronomical 
> phenomenon that could be used in the manner I've described. I'm 
> completely uninterested in replacing the Imperial calendar. This is 
> more of a "what if"?

Well, if you're in a surveyed system which has several stars, moons, or
planets, and have a good onboard navigational or astronomical program
which includes an ephemeris for that system, you can observe orbital
positions of the bodies and work back to a time.  The time obtained can be
as accurate as desired (down to hours, easily) given decent sensors and a
good ephemeris. 

You might have noticed that Data used this method to determine the current
time after following the Borg vessel into the past in ST:FC.  First he
gave a year, then when pressed he quickly narrowed it down to a specific
day and time.  I thought it was uncharacteristically sloppy of him to give
such a low-precision initial answer. :) 

> I'm looking more for a "date/time reference" than for a replacement 
> calendar. (Though, the new reference system *might* eventually 
> replace older calendars - depends on the culture. :-)

Given that this trick is specific to each system, it's not especially
useful as an interstellar standard.

> Accuracy need only be light-seconds or minutes (initially) for its 
> location in space, and seconds or minutes for its location in time. 

Getting down to that time resolution is a *little* bit trickier, but
doable, especially with a couple hours' observation of the system.

> Initial observations should assure an astrogator that all is well. 
> Continued observations should allow greater accuracy in space/time 
> location.

This very much fits that description.  You start with eliminating "Whoops,
um, Captain, Rhylanor is supposed to be way over *there*", and work
downward from that.

> I figure it should work something like WWV radio broadcasts 
> available here and now.

Oh, if you have a civilized system, then you just tune into the
equivalents of atomic clock radio and LORAN/GPS, and have a martini.  No
challenge at all to that. :)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 23:24:04 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

Damn, I hate replying to myself... :-)

>The "Imperial GPS" is what I have always done in my campaigns; or more 
>precisely the "Local System GPS", as I have always thought that a 
>universal time for an empire that it takes years to traverse was pointless.
>When you come out of jump, local time is all that you (usually) are concerned
>with....

One thing that could be done to set up the "Imperial GPS" is to have the
Imperial
Time Keeping Transponders(TM) reset by each xboat that comes through 
carrying a packet from Core (Sylea). Any xboat that goes out from Sylea has 
its internal clock set with the official Imperial Time Stamp(TM) and sends a 
burst to the Transponders upon arrival in system. This once again opens up the
problem of time passing at different speeds in different ships, but for
those who
choose to be "official" they just have to put up with the inconveniences of 
possibly having "official" time change with each xboat arriving. And since this
only concerns a few unimportant beaurocrats in the Office of Imperial Time
Keeping(TM), almost no one ever bothers to notice :-)

- - Paul Darius  (pauld@athens.net)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:30:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TCS Discount

Wasn't Trillion Cr series discount 20%?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:30:45 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Fifth Frontier War.

>Can anyone remember how Fifth Frontier War handled communications? I have
>vague recollections that it was an abstract time delayed system, but would
>appreciate it if someone could enlighten me further!
  Fleet orders were _pre-plotted_ a number of jump period turns
ahead equal to the strategy rating of the admiral in question,
e.g. a very good admiral had a rating of 1 or 2, and a 6 was a
liability.
  Also, the OB's can add info on 3rd Empire naval doctrine, as
I believe that most of the really furry BatRons arrived from
Deneb sector as reinforcements.
  Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:36:01 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

> From: Bruce Alan Macintosh <bmac@astro.ucla.edu>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Measurement Systems
> Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 1:46 PM
> >Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
> 
> Inside a known system, positions of planets and asteroids should give
> a reasonably acurate time (as well as locations of features like
> continents; a P1 sensor can resolve features a 40 metres across at 
> 1,000,000 km ranges.) Of course, in a well-known system you'll just tune
into
> the Imperial equivalent of GPS.

Doesn't that assume that you're within the correct solar "year"?  How big a
time distortion are we talking about?

> In an unknown system or an empty hex, getting a precision time
measurement
> will be harder - probably relative motions of a whole bunch of nearby
[snip]
> time. Of course, you have to wait for a suitable event, but gamma-ray
bursts
> detectable by a P1 PEMS (TL10+) sensor suite probably occur several times
> a day.

Wouldn't you have to have some referent time frame?  That might simply be
the maximum estimated time distortion and then let the AI have at it... 
Hmmm...


david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:28:44 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4

David Smart wrote:
> 
> Jeff Kazmierski wrote:
> >
> > I.  Missile Hulls
> >
> >   Space Missiles use a standardized hull form of Streamlined Cylinder,
> > displacing 0.5 Tons (7 cubic meters).
> 
> Why "streamlined" if they're being used in the vacuum of space?
> 

It gives you more flexibility. You know then that you can feel free
to use them in atmospheres. Your opponent might be in a gas giant, after
all.

> 
> Is there a minimum AV required of starships as protection against
> cosmic radiation, micrometeoroid, etc.? If so, shouldn't it be
> required of missiles to ensure their electronics don't get damaged
> until detonation?
> 

I'd say no. The total distance travelled by a missile is a miniscule
fraction of that travelled by a spacecraft. Micrometeroid erosion of 
the hull would be so small as to be inconsequential.

- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 23:48:50 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: QSDS Discount

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> Funny, that was one of the things I was going to suggest you change in the
> next version of QSDS. I think the 25% discount should be _included_

Funny, that was one of the things I was planning to change in
the next version of QSDS, so the discount is included.  ;-)

> Besides, why impose the extra calculation of
> the 25% deduction if it isn't necessary? 

Exactly.

> One suggestion about discounts for multiple ships: Remember that in _TCS_
> you get a full _40_ % discount for second and subsequent ships:?
> I suggest that for single QSDS and part QSDS ships you only get the 25%
> discount on the QSDS parts, but that for second and subsequent ships that
> are part of a production run, you get a further 20% price reduction. That
> would make the total discount for such ships 40% (80% of 75% = 60%).

Sounds good, and duplicates the High Guard numbers, which is nice.

> Finally, let all ships, including custom-designed ones, count as if made
> of standard modules if they are part of a production run of more than
> some minimum size, say 20. 

OK ...

> That way you get a situation not too far from the old _TCS_ rules (The only 
> place where there would be a difference is with custom-designed ships produced
> in quantities less than 20 (or whatever). And my impression is that most
> _TCS_ designs were produced in big lots. 

This makes a LOT of sense, and will help reduce the cost of the commercial
ships (like the Free Trader and the Subsidized Merchant) to the point where
they could be reasonably profitable.

> What do you think?

I think that, unless someone comes up with a REALLY good reason wny not,
this system (or something like it) will got into QSDS 2.x.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 22:15:02 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Ironclads

On 02/03/97 at 08:47 AM,  ccguy@showme.missouri.edu said:

> Ironclads is, I think, now out-of-print, although there are still a few
> copies on shelves over here (or were last summer). 

I looked around for it this weekend and couldn't find a copy
locally.  

> In many ways, it feels a lot like Wooden Ships and Iron Men, but
> for the 1860s and 1870s - boarding was still possible, and the
> expansion set for IC particularly takes this into account -
> including provisions even for actions with infantry on river banks
> and forts.  The critical hit system also gives a WSIM type feel.

It does sound interesting...I'm an old wargamer going back into the 60's. 
<g> I could go pull out Jutland, but it's a little later (and larger scale)
than I'd prefer.

BTW, I'm still thinking about how a ship can be temporarily
disabled...consider the following, but keep in mind that I'm
currently battling the flu so I might not be to lucid right now.

Some portion of the maneuver drive has to be located outside the ship's
armor in order to work...that only stands to reason, and this applies to
thrusters as much as Heplar too.  Hits on this exposed part (call it the
"grommet" for now) degrades and eventually disables the drives until the
"grommet" can be repaired.  The "grommet" doesn't *have* to be expensive,
or even hard to repair, maybe it just takes *hours* of work to fix it.  Not
something you can fix during the heat of a battle, but pretty easy to fix
after one.  The expensive, impossible to fix part of the drive is buried
deep behind ship armor.  Now, a pirate has a way of stopping a merchant
from running (ie changing vector) without having to blow it to heck and
back...but they still need to board the merchantman to actually *take* it. 
Doesn't even *have* to break canon..(yuck, putuee)!  ;->

Doing the same thing with *cannon* might be a little harder.  ;->

OTOH Lasers have to expose focal, *maybe* fragile, arrays to fire. PAWS
have to expose their, *maybe fragile, channel bores. Missiles are harder,
but *some* part of the launcher must be external to armor or maybe an
access port has to be able to open...how hard is it to jam?  Meson cannon
are a real problem both offensively and defensively, because they fire from
*inside* armor and tear up the *inside* of a ship where the expensive,
can't be field fixed parts are located.  

IAC, for most weapons it might have fairly easy to damage parts (or
environments) that take them offline, but don't *destroy* them...things
like damaged aiming mechanisms, external hatches or ports blocked with
debris, turret jammed so they can't turn, cut power cables, or electronics
offline due to a shorted circuit, blown fuse, or whatever.  Any of these
things could take a weapon out of the fight, temporarily, until the problem
is fixed, but most of them *can* be fixed given time.

Ok, I know a warship will build in redundancy, and it will make it as hard
as possible for minor damage to disable a weapon.  I said this is harder. 
<g> But you know, many a tank has been knocked out of action by a jammed
turret, a blown barrel, or broken tracks only to be recovered, repaired,
and ready for action after a few hours of repair.
 
Folks, don't jump all over me about this, OK?  I'm groping toward some
reasonable rationale here, and maybe some damage tables too. Maybe
something like:

                     Turret Laser Damage Table

Damage                          Task to repair
=============================================================
Circuit Breaker Shorted......Average, Electronics, (10 min)
Pointer, Off-line............Average, Sensors, (30 min)
Cut Power Cable..............Difficult, Electronics, (30 min)
Jammed Turret................Staggering, Mechanical, (60 min)
Focal Array Misaligned.......Staggering, Mechanical, (120 min) Cracked
Focal Array..........Impossible, Mechanical, (180 min) Grav Focus Unit
damaged......Replace, Difficult, Mechanical, (30
                             min) 
                             Fix, Staggering, Gravitic, (300 min) etc..                            


[Harder if done faster, easier if done more slowly.]


Do you see where I'm going with this?  Am I making sense, or has the fever
clouded my brain?


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:42:50 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

>"transponders...". I was under the impression that transponders were
>developed around 1100, after Dr.Rushorin research about the Cymbeline Chips.

Transponders was there long before the Cymbeline chip. Read the earliest
TNEWS in Journal 2 for problems with the old ones. The new ones were
supposed to alleviate these problems but according to TNE weren't entirely
bug free.
Beside that I agree fully with your assessment of "Silver moon".

Have you folks noticed that Imperium Games either has no clue about how
Traveller is supposed to work anymore or doesn't check contributions much.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 23:32:29 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A different take on jump drives

On 02/03/97 at 10:49 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
said:

>    Pardon the sudden interjection, but I've got a question that relates
> to a JTAS adventure I'm writing.  How does a starship generate the energy
> sufficient to engage the jump drive?  Does it have to be accumulated in a
> series of capacitors, then released, or does it come directly from the
> ship's power plant?  My research so far has turned up conflicting answers.
> I need information relative to T4, obviously.

> 	Canon (TNE, and FFS IIRC, derived from DGP Starship Operators
> manual)states that the power for a jump is generated by a special fusion
> plant that dumps a LOT of power into a huge bank of zuchai-crystal
> capacitors, which then power the jump drive.

I *know* this isn't canon, but I've never been happy with the
"special fusion plant" explanation.  If this super-high energy plant can
power the jump drive, then why can't it be used for other things needing a
*huge* burst of energy.  Just imagine putting all that power into a pulsed
meson cannon...shudder!

Over the last 20 years, I've settled on the following..  

0.  The ship has to sail out to an area of very low gravitational
influence, I require this to be about 200 stellar diameters, but others may
want to use the 100 diameter limit.

1.  Using energy from the ship's main power plant, the jump nodes (several
coils arranged, externally, in a ring around the ship's bow) create a
weakened region of space that extends like a shell around the ship.  This
requires a good deal of power from the power plant.

2.  The pinch nodes (several disc's, mounted externally and matched one for
one with the jump nodes, are arranged in a ring around the ship's stern)
pinch the jump shell shut behind the ship.  This part of the system
requires very little power, but is absolutely required.

3.  A quantity of matter equal to approximately 10% of the ship's volume
(maybe you can get by with 8% if you've got a masterful Astrogator) is
rapidly injected through the jump nodes into the shell.  This is where
*all* the jump fuel goes in my system.

4.  The injected matter (let's just say purified hydrogen works best to
stay closer to canon, but personally I use absolutely pure water) interacts
with the jump field opening a rift between normal and jump space.  This
rift persists for 2 to 3 minutes (or until the ship actually jumps
whichever is shorter), looks like a shimmering shell, and then it and the
ship within disappears like a bubble bursting.

5.  During the 2 to 3 minute window, the Astrogator looks into the "jump
tank" and finds the grav source of the body he wants to jump to (I only
allow jumping from star to star, so the grav sources are all stars, but
there's no reason that you couldn't jump to a planetary grav source...if
you can pick it up.)

6.  The "distance" the ship can jump isn't primarily dependent on the
amount of fuel injected, power expended, or volume of the jump drive
components.  The "distance" a ship can jump depends mainly on the *quality*
of the ship's sensors and the skill of the Astrogator! At progressively
higher tech levels the specialized jump sensors used by the Astrogator are
able to *resolve* grav sources at greater and greater distances.

7.  The Astrogator has to complete *tasks* to locate the proper grav
source, lock the grav pulse generator on the correct grav source and fire a
correctly aimed pulse.  The instant the pulse is fired the ship is
committed, and for it the universe disappears.

8.  The grav pulse links the ship to the grav source and the ship "jumps"
from here to there in an indeterminate amount of time. Theory says the
transfer is instantaneous, but no one can say for sure because..

9.  The jump field created by the injected matter takes 160+2d6 hours to
disperse.  Until the jump field disperses, the ship is isolated in jump
space completely cut off from the rest of the universe, neither here, nor
there, but *everywhere*.

10.  While the ship is isolated in Jump Space, it's hull grid must remain
powered and functioning to protect the ship from destruction.

11.  When the shell disperses, the ship emerges at the "jump limit" (define
it however you want..maybe x number of stellar diameters from the star, or
x number of planetary diameters, or whatever) with 2 to 3 minute surge of
photons and a massive gravity disturbance.

12.  If a misjump occurs, (due to damage, failed task rolls,
unpurified fuel, etc) several things could happen.  The ship could reemerge
right where it attempted to jump from.  It could take much longer for the
jump bubble to disperse keeping the ship in jump space for several weeks. 
The grav pulse might miss it's target and the ship will end up near *some*
grav source...somewhere and/or sometime.  Worst of all the ship might end
up dispersed over a 1296 square light year area as lots of high energy
particles. ;->


The biggest change this system makes is the amount of "jump fuel" used. 
It's not (10%_of_Ship_Volume x Jump_number), it's just
(10%_of_Ship_Volume).  Of course, you could require more matter be injected
to "make it possible to find and lock onto distant
locations" if you want to.

Another thing is there isn't *A* jump drive.  The jump system is made of up
a number of parts scattered all over the ship where all the parts have to
work if you are going to jump.  The reason I have the jump nodes and jump
ring composed of several units is so the system can be degraded and still
*partially* work..it can also be used as a stl maneuver system running in a
different mode, but that's a different post.  ;->

It's a different way of doing things, but variety is good.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #912
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 4 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 913



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[Traveller Answer] Jump Fuel Calculations
[Traveller Answer] Ship Design Systems
Re: Traveller Linguistics
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
[Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Energy
Re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: A different take on jump drives
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
Re: A different take on jump drives
tactics
Geonee TNE Pocket Empire.
Re: Mayday and Armor Values
Poor man's meson comm
Contest Results! (fwd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 00:28:59 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Jump Fuel Calculations

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> asked:
> dave golden said:
> >The fuel requirements for jump were chosen deliberately to be the
> >same as for Classic and MegaTraveller. Your average ship does NOT
> >and never has carried sufficient fuel for multiple max-distance jumps.

> Sorry dave, but MT used a different formula for jump fuel than CT/T4
> CT: fuel for 1 jump of J-n = 10% size times n
> MT: fuel for 1 J-n = 5% volume times (n+1)
> TNE: Same as MT; T4: same as CT

You're correct, William.  T4 uses the same calculation as Classic Traveller.
MegaTraveller reduced the jump fuel requirement because of the vastly
increased size of a ship's power plant and power plant fuel consumption.
Traveller: The New Era kept MegaTraveller's lower jump fuel requirement,
because the fuel-comsuming HEPlaR drive was the only official starship
drive in that game.  T4 returned to the Classic-Traveller style maneuver
drives, and consequently increased the jump fuel requirement.  This was a
deliberate (and carefully-thought-out) change.

Dave is correct in that ships don't generally carry fuel for multiple
maximum-range jumps, and (for jump numbers over 4), cannot do so.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 00:46:56 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Ship Design Systems

Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com> asked:
> Can someone tell me where to get copies of all the ship design systems that
> are being banded around this TML (what publications are they in)

Okay, here goes:

QSDS is the Quick Ship Design System (written by yours truly).  Version 1.0
appears in your copy of the _Marc Miller's Traveller_ main rulebook.  The
current version (1.4 as of the current writing, but 2.0 is under
preparation) can always be found at: http://www.qrc.com/~wildstar/qsds/

SSDS is the Standard Ship Design System, written by Dave Golden.  It appears
in the _Starships_ suppliment for T4.  A version may be available on the
world-wide web, too.  Check Dave's homepage, http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/
for more information.

VDS is Greg Porter's Vehicle Design System, which is aimed at vehicles (such
as cars, tanks, aircraft, and orbital craft) rather than starships.  VDS
appears in the _Central Supply Catalog_ suppliment for Milieu 0.

FFS (or FF&S) is _Fire, Fusion, and Steel_.  This was the design system for
the previous version of Traveller, _Traveller: The New Era_.  It was
published by Game Designers' Workshop, and is now out of print (although I
believe many game stores and distributors still have copies in stock).  FFS
was the basis for both SSDS and QSDS.

NAH is the projected _Naval Architect's Handbook_.  It is currently being
prepared, under the direction of Dave Golden, and will be a complete
revision of FFS for T4.  The project is not complete, although draft
materials for some parts of NAH may be available from Dave's website.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:33:32 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Traveller Linguistics

>Alien Module 8: Darrians had a (very) short article about tezlodh (the
>Darrian language).

The first issue of Challenge had an article about the Darrian language
coplete with a poem (Te doldinen) i think it was called. Most things
written about the Darrians including that was uncanonized when Darrian
alien module was released.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:28:55 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

>How about
>posting your system on the mailing list, and letting us all have a good look,
>we can even add some constructive, honest, critisism.....

Well, all my rules are written in Swedish and so is my design system. The
design system BTW consists only of some spreadsheets in Excel, there is no
paper version.

Are there any Swedish Traveller users that might be interested in a
personal combat system, task system, space combat system, ship design et c?
Let me know by e-mail so people not fluent in swedish don't get mad.
Just a warning: I my own TL progression and take on starship weaponry and
sensors.
For instance, a traveller displacement ton represent aprox 5 kl in my system.
I felt that starships were too big for my tastes and also made the old
deckplans usable but with 1x1 m grid and 2.5 m per deck. I also have some
deckplans of Scout, Free trader, FarTrader, Lafayette colonial transport et
c in MacDraw format.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 01:22:28 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Energy

lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee) asked:
> How does a starship generate the energy sufficient to engage the jump
> drive?  Does it have to be accumulated in a series of capacitors,
> then released, or does it come directly from the ship's power plant?

In T4, the ship's power plant is used to charge the jump drive (presumably
some type of energy storage device, roughly equivalent to capacitors;
depending on your campaign, it could be homopolar generators,
superconducting energy storage units, or other PSG*).   Typically, the
entire output is used for 10 or 20 minutes to charge the drive.

The main use of the power plant rating number (in Traveller starship
descriptions) is to determine the charging time for the jump drive:
if the power plant rating is equal to the jump number being attempted,
charging the drive requires 20 minutes.  Higher or lower power plant
ratings require more or less time (thus, a power plant rated at twice
the jump number chan charge the drive in 10 minutes; one rated at half
the jump number takes 40 minutes to charge the drive).

It's a long-standing Vilani tradition (practiced in the Sylean Federation
and the Imperium, but not by the Solomani) to divert all power possible
to the jump drive (to the point of running the life support system on
minimum power, and shutting off most of the interior lights) to reduce
the charging time to a minimum.

Once the drive is fully charged, the jump sequence begins, and the ship
enters jumpspace less than ten minutes later.  During the jump sequence,
virtually all of the jump drive fuel and virtually all of the stored power
are expended (before the ship fully enters jumpspace).  Delaying the jump
once the drive is fully charged is risky - there's a chance that the energy
storage will break down, possibly damaging or destroying the ship.

Once the ship is in jumpspace, its course is set and it is out of contact
with the rest of the universe.  It will re-emerge in normal space at the
appropriate time and place.  Some spacers claim to be able to tell a ship
has misjumped before the ship re-emerges (unusually high rates of space
sickness while in jumpspace, and an abnormally long time spent in jumpspace
are considered signs of a misjump), but ships can't determine their position
until they re-emerge from jumpspace. 

The jump drive needs a small amount of power (easily supplied by the power
plant, since maneuver drives are powered down in jumpspace) and fuel (the
amount remaining in the jump drive's internal surge tanks is sufficient) to
maintain the jump field around the ship while in jumpspace. 


* Note: PSG stands for Pseudo-Scientific Gobbledygook.  It's a technical
  term for science-fiction sounding terms that don't particularly mean
  anything, but sound as if they explain some facet of the game.


>  My research so far has turned up conflicting answers.

The answer has changed in the various editions of Traveller.
The answer above is for T4.  In MegaTraveller and Traveller: The New Era, a
jump drive was a miniature power plant that produced it's own energy for the
jump (by rapidly fusing the jump fuel).  In Classic Traveller, jump drives
required power from the ship's power plant (just as they do in T4).


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 01:28:20 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4

At 10:01 PM 2/2/97 -0500, "Jeff Kazmierski" <odysseus@novia.net>
 wrote:
>snip<
>
>I.  Missile Hulls
>
>  Space Missiles use a standardized hull form of Streamlined Cylinder,
>displacing 0.5 Tons (7 cubic meters).
>
>Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons
>

Jeff, 

Don't use those types of armors in missile contruction, instead use
structurecomp unless you need the volume. The superdenses and crystalliron
add too much mass which will affect your design. I use a converted to
CSC/VDS armor called Chain Polymer that has a Toughness of 7, mass of .55t
and a cost of .016MCr/ton.

>snip<
>II.  Missile Warheads
>
>snip<

Have you looked at the article that Bertil Jonell and Guy Garnett put
together called "More Missiles For Traveller: The New Era"? It has lots of
good stuff in it like Kinetic Kill Missiles(KKM), KKE(HE), Cannisters, and
Proximity Nukes. It also has very good rules for using them.

>High Explosive Warheads
>
>snip<
>...blast radius of only 4 kilometers

This sounds more like a small nuke

>snip<
>Fuzing Lidars
>

Why not just use the primary sensor and have it trigger the warhead via
doppler roll off at the right distance.
                          
>snip<
>     
>  Guidance computers must be installed for the missile to have any
>independence.  Without one, the missile must be targeted and guided by a
>live gunner.  Guidance computers must be of Rating-3 or better, at the
>appropriate tech level.  Intelligent missiles have a Gunnery skill level
>equal to the rating of the computer minus 3.
>     Rating 3 Computers:                Rating 4 Computers:
>     TL-10  60kg  0.060kl  MCr0.060     
>     TL-11  20kg  0.020kl  MCr0.020     TL-11  100kg  0.100kl  MCr0.200
>     TL-12  10kg  0.010kl  MCr0.010     TL-12   50kg  0.050kl  MCr0.100
>     TL-13   7kg  0.007kl  MCr0.007     TL-13   35kg  0.035kl  MCr0.070
>   

Hmmm,,, CSC/VDS allows automated firecontrol skill/rating of halve TL
rounded up, that is I use for the targeting of the warhead and I use the
CSC/VDS rules for Autopilot Computer for getting the bird to the target.
Also are the above computers dedicated?

>  Sensors are military grade, small vehicle sensors.

Hmmm...small vehicle sensors??? sensors are either civilian or military in
CSC, and small?

>snip<

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
John Doe
jd@net.net
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all
likewise perish." Luke 13:3
 
Signature made w/ Unregistered ESig95-The Original E-Mail Signature Manager
Get your copy at: http://netnow.micron.net/~jjordan/dbs/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:53:16 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

>That is all assuming that with the general and special theories of
>relativity that we could EVER get any clock synchronized on an
>Imperium-wide scale...  ;-(  Could just be that the local time/date
>variance is about 24 hours...

Einstein was an old Solomani scientist whose theories were popular during
the 20th century (terran reckoning). When jumpdrives were developed (or a
bit earlier than that in fact) his theories were proven to be only
applicable to special cases, especially his rather naive philosophical
musings about measurements with clocks and rods.

Eneri Giladaan Backman
Primitive cultures studies
Depertment of sociology
Pallique Rhylanor Spinward marches 1118


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:41:25 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: A different take on jump drives

>The biggest change this system makes is the amount of "jump fuel" used.
>It's not (10%_of_Ship_Volume x Jump_number), it's just
>(10%_of_Ship_Volume).  Of course, you could require more matter be injected
>to "make it possible to find and lock onto distant
>locations" if you want to.

Very interesting suggestions. More heretics on the list please.
One problem though; Is it possible to jump to the quite large grav source
known as Andromeda galaxy despite its large range? It is very dangerous to
allow long jumps because it may invalidate the reasons why the Imperium
looks the way it looks.

One idea (not original I confess) I've been toying with is disallowing
jumps to deepspace. One has to (in my campaign) travel out to 128 000 km x
SQRT(m-planet) or 0.5 AU x SQRT(m-sol) in order to jump and your astrogator
has to be able to hit the shell this radius creates at the target therefore
making it easiest to jump to stars, then gasgiants and last planets. Maybe
one shouldn't be able to do deepspace jumping at all.

This would make the mains more believable and also make great adventure
hooks as the only way of crossing a 7 parsec rift is by sublight. Old
spacemen tell stories about the great planet engulfing behemoths that live
in interstellar space, untouched man in their tiny jumpships.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:24:47 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

>   More rules are a good thing?  My biggest beef with GURPs has to do
>with the 1 second combat rounds, which seem unrealistically short.

The main reason for a Task system is to help the ref devise rules on the
fly. The more easy to find rules there is the less important a task system
become.
1 second combat rounds are realistic but perhaps unplayable. GURPS has
tried to alleviate this with rules for "lulls" and "exchanges" where
combatants spend some time doing nothing between bouts of frantic action
but those rules seems hard to use with "rules lawyer" players.

>>FF&S is randomly cobbled together with high detail in some parts and no
>>detail at all in others. Also, most of the detail in design system is
>>lost when playing as there are no rules for most of the stuff you put
>>in.
>   If you aren't using all the stuff you've installed, it's because you
>don't have a group of players trying to get everything they can out of
>their ship.  I have found that my players are constantly looking for new
>ways to use the equipment that is on their ship, and from time to time I
>reward their creativity.

Look at GURPS Vehicles, they have rules for air to air dogfights, ground
combat, car chases, sensors, off road travel, breakdowns et c that actually
use all the little details you put into a design. FF&S seems to be a system
for designing military starships and TL 7-8 MBT and then the guys went
overboard and put everything else into it as well without playtesting,
realitychecking et c.
My players participate in gravbike contests run hoverchases on the canals
of Bendor and one

>>The heplar thrusters and semi magical virus changes the underlying
>>reality behind the game that makes SDB's useless. This partly
>>invalidates the history.
>
>   I have found the opposite to be true: SDB are nasty vessels when
>they are used correctly.  They are employed best when *surprise* they
>are used for ambushes near planets or in asteroid fields.  Simply equip
>them with a really good passive EMS array, give them some sensor drones
>and missiles to deploy, and they can take out ships many times their
>size.
SDBs are supposed to lie in wait in the outer system to pounce from behind
like wolfpacks. With Heplars time taken to go from GGs to mainworld is much
longer than jumping there so SDBs need J-drives. I like SDBs a lot but with
TNE Heplars I'm afraid they're out.

>   Virus is only semi-magical if you ignore the classic Traveller
>adventure Signal GK.  Virus is nothing more or less than a logical
>extension of the silicon-based lifeform featured in that story.

Good point, Signal GK was the most TNE like thing put out for CT and didn't
seem to fit at all.

>>I agree that TNE was the best game system for Traveller by GDW but the
>>setting was more space fantasy than old traveller, perhaps to lure
>>Vampire players to traveller?
>
>   Given the egg that MT laid (let's face it--the DGP stuff was good,
>but MT overall did not live up to classic Traveller's sales figures),
>and the prevailing mood among the staff that something *different* had
>to be done in the way of storyline, the post-Collapse milieu was one
>possible logical result (though as I have previously indicated, it was
>perhaps not the best result for customer retention purposes).

My take on that is that you should design a RPG that you love to use and
play no matter what the market forces say. People go for quality no matter
the setting and any lack of interest on part of the designer will permeate
to the customer. There is also the problem of production time. If you
design something to fit the taste of the moment then when your product hit
the market the hip game will be out and your product will look like a
"rippoff of a game whose time has passed".

>>The problem is that I've yet to meet a Traveller referee that uses any
>>GDW system.
>
>   Well I'm one.  If by this comment you mean that no referee runs a
>*pure* by the book game, you're probably right.  I have added my own
>little touches here and there like everyone else.  Some of them come
>from other GDW games (i.e. equipment from Twilight:2000), but others are
>my own creation (i.e. sniper rules).

No really, I haven't met (in the flesh) any Traveller referee that used the
org combat system at all. I've seen Traveller refs using GURPS, Runequest(!),
Azhanti High lightning, Phoeni Command, En Garde(!) but most of all entirely
homebrew systems. In my original small hometown (Mariestad) it was me and my
schoolmates that started roleplaying and maybe we set the style of gaming
from that.
In the army and when I did my physics studying I met a few refs but they used
homebrew systems as well.

>Regards,
>
>Harold


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:57:56 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov>
Subject: Re: A different take on jump drives

Mon, 03 Feb 97 23:32:29 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>I *know* this isn't canon, but I've never been happy with the
>"special fusion plant" explanation.  If this super-high energy plant can
>power the jump drive, then why can't it be used for other things needing a
>*huge* burst of energy.  Just imagine putting all that power into a pulsed
>meson cannon...shudder!

My take is that it is a system of producing power over a very
short time tightly coupled so that the power goes right
into the jump field.  Producing the jump field is a huge
sink that the energy goes into so you don't have to find
a way of storing all that energy the way you would if you
were going to use it for something else.

I always pictured them as sources that operate at only a
fraction of the efficiency of a "normal" power plant but
are used because they can produce high outputs for short
periods.


____________________________
(Disclaimer: Would NASA have ME speak for them?)
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 19:26:25 UT
From: "Harry McGowan" <AL_THE_MAD@msn.com>
Subject: tactics

Thanx for the tips, i've decided to build companies based around the 1,000,000 
ton carrier.
It will contain
3000 x fighters 15 tons
2 x 100,000 ton battle cruisers
3 x 50,000 ton heavy cruisers
10 x 5,000 ton cruisers
50 x 1,000 ton frigates
5 x defence stations

supported by a squadron of 2000 jump capable fighters 15 tons


This set up will be significantley large enough to pose a major threat to any 
system. Tactics, jump to the outer system, all ships leave the carrier, and 
fly to the inner system. Dropping probes in the outer system to create "noise" 
to make it look like I have a lot of reserves in their outer system.

The other bonus, the outer system is a safe place to leave the unarmed carrier 
ship, and if the system is heavier defended than expected, jump on to another 
system.

The mines I was going to employ in orbit were going to be scanner equipped.
They would drop out of orbit onto surface of planet, targeting industrial and 
agricultural and population centres. 
If any object of reasonable size came within distance x of it
If any 1 mine was tangled with
If any one was destroyed
If a signal from one of my ships was sent to it.
Or if a signal from another mine was sent to it

This would realy piss off the planets population, especialy when they find out 
how stranded they are, piss off the player as well, lost contact to a planet, 
no income, no ship docks to work with e.t.c

What do you think???

The u-boat idea would take up too much money for me, my carrier ships have 
taken any cash that would have funded this operation.

One other idea, an expesive one mind.
Set up in deep space a station capable of repairing and refueling ships, fuel 
would be shipped via special carriers to the station, if it is in deep space, 
provides a safe haven for raiding ships, an unknown base of operations to 
strike from.
take fuel ships with fleet, to allow multiple jumps, say to by pass a 
fortified system, jump to deep space, refuel and jump again. By passing his 
primary line of defence, and making him think you have superior jump 
engines.... Any thoughts on this one.
The high guard rules are being used for ship design. If that interests anyone.
Alastair

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:20:08 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Geonee TNE Pocket Empire.

        As part of my sloooowly progressing Geonee Sourcebook, I wanted to
submit to the list's consideration one of the three settings I am detailing.
The first one would be in Milieu Zero, so I am waiting until I know to which
amount of detail is Massilia presented in Milieu Zero/First Survey. The
Second one is in The Rebellion, so the stats are in Knightfall and TD 11.
And the Third is The Geonee TNE Pocket Empire, summarized here to your
judgment. Well, at least the world-by-world description, which I think gives
a flavor of what's going on. For some more details, please check the Geonee
Timeline at Scott Galliand's site.

        You will notice major changes to the Geonee culture, but do not
worry... tradition survives on some worlds.

        COMMENTS ARE VERY WELCOME.

        And, without further delay....

- ----------------------------------

Setting 3: The New Era & The Geonee Pocket Empire (1201)

Allegiance: Gc = Third Geonee Confederation

Rigaal   0928 E100367-8     Ni Lo Va    414 Gc   M1 V M8 D
	An outpost of the Confederation, established in 1196.

Hiponee 1027 A686674-B     Ni Ag Ri     221 Gc    F3 V
	The population descends of refugees from Hard
Times. Having nothing but an empty, pleasant planet before
them, the population actually start growing immediately,
once the TL drop was accepted and the scarce present
nobles lost all influence. Recuperation was speed up in
1182, when a secret naval research station dating to
Rebellion times was discovered. Today, seven different
"Cities" manage their affairs independently, although limited
cooperation is possible through the City Confederacy. Most
of the traditional Geonee culture is maintained. The Starport
has been constructed in the last five years using resources
from all the Third Confederation. The old orbital complex is
partially active again.

Dreva 1028 E300847-7     Va Na       210 Gc     F1 V M6 D
	When the Virus struck, this TL 7 world suffered no
catastrophic, immediate effects. But, with all interstellar
trade gone, there was simply not enough food for the whole
population to survive. A revolution ended with the
assassination of all bureaucrats. Many people died from the
fighting and from starvation. Some cannibalism cases
occured. After a while, people started eating Chirpers as
meat. Later on, when the population stabilized and the
production of vegetables in the tunnels was significant, it
was obvious that Chirpers were the only source of food. The
survivors have already become used to eat them, so, rather
than become vegetarians, they developed the practice of
herding chirpers and using them as food. A determinant
factor was also that nothing totally unproductive could be
keeped, so, in order to allow Chirpers to survive, their meat
had to be consumed. This practice is viewed with disgust by
other Geonee worlds.

Lagna 1029 D110369-9      Ni Lo     531 Gc     G3 V M8 D
	A Permanent Salvaging Station of the Confederation
has been established to obtain technological items from this
once heavily populated, industrial, TL 16 system. Whole
starships have been recovered and refitted.

Stenardee 1130 E110261-8    Ni Lo     314 Gc     F3 V
	A Confederation base is under construction.

Ashavakuna 1131 C567654-9   Ni Ag Ri  810 Gc  F4 V M7 D
	This planet was not very heavily affected by the
Virus. The economy, based on exporting agroproducts,
receded greatly, but, although the production dropped, it was
far enough to sustain the local popualtion. The Central City
was only abandoned after 5 years, causing the collapse of
the democratic system. This left a power vacuum which was
later filled by  the  establishment of The Producers' League,
an alliance of technocratical landlords which still governs the
planet. Most of the traditional Geonee culture is intact, with
the landlords taking the place of the nobility.

Prindee	1330 D443469-7  Ni Po O:1430  624 Gc  G2 D M6 D
	The low gravity and tainted atmosphere of this
planet have always made it unappealing for the Geonee.
Nevertheless, a new colony of Shiwonee was established in
1198.

Shiwonee 1430 BA86841-A  Ni An Ri  333 Gc  F7 VI M9 D
	Home of the Shiwonee minor human race, with 1.3
Gs and 1.5 atm presure. Geologically very active, with
frequent earthquakes and an important number of
volcanoes.
	The planet was left in complete chaos after the
artificially provoked earthquakes in Hard Times and the
Virus infection. The social organization disappeared almost
completely, substituted by practical, survival criteria. Twenty
years later, a Female Revolution re-unified the planet,
completely changing the Geonee culture. Shiwonee is now
governed by an egalitarian democratic system. The females
are granted equal rights, a fact that strucks Geonee from
other worlds.

Lost Geonee: The failed migration attempt towards Delphi in
Hard Times and the slavery practices associated to
Marquess Tanzer's Geoneecide left many Geonee stranded
in strange worlds when the Virus struck. It has been
speculated that some groups of Geonee could have survived
far away from the Geonee worlds. Some voices are claiming
that the Confederation should attempt to find the "Lost
Geonee".




Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:42:45 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: Re: Mayday and Armor Values

at least with High Guard and Striker we had a conversion table, that
made figuring out how big a hole you couldnt punch in a starship 
easy.

the only personal weapons that stood a chance of holing one were 
either HEAP RAM grenades, or High Energy Weapons. and the High 
Energy weapons had to be at a range of 45.
this is vrs an unarmored hull. whereas the HEAP RAM grenades, 
preferably using an IR followup round could punch a hole at 150

otherwise its Tac Missle time.


The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 07:38:20 -0500
From: Doug Sinclair <diemos@ican.net>
Subject: Poor man's meson comm

A thought occured to me: every vessel with a fusion plant and a neutrino
sensor can be used as a neutrino communicator.  The plant could be
modulated to provide a modulated neutrino emission which could be picked
up on sensors elsewhere.  Since neutrinos don't like to interact with
normal matter, you can go right through planets with this.  Unlike a
meson communicator you don't have to aim it, so you don't have to know
exactly where the other ship is.

Baud rate might be a problem, based on how fast you can modulate your
fusion drive.  A maximum of a couple baud might be reasonable.  This is
similar to the ULF communications used for submarines.

I don't think this can be jammed.  If my particle physics is correct,
then neutrinos are quite expensive to produce.  Unless there is an
efficient mechanism to make neutrino-antineutrino pairs in an
accelerator, the only way to make them is through weak interactions,
such as in a fusion plant.  I don't think you could optimize a fusion
plant for neutrino yield without buring as much fuel as a regular plant
of the same neutrino yield.  Thus, in order to jam the signal you'd need
a power plant much bigger than the transmitting ship.

I also can't think of any way to make a fusion plant give you a beam
of neutrinos.  Once they're created, you can't lense or reflect them.
Of course, SOM says that superdense reflects a few percent which might
be enough.  Gravitic lensing might be another option.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:13:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Contest Results! (fwd)

Hi Folks,

Below is Wildstar's judgement for the February contest.  Congratulations 
to Andrew Vallance, the winner of the January Contest!

Wildstar has included the runners-up ship designs.  He also plans to put 
them on his web site.  If you don't want yours on there, contact Wildstar 
and let him know which ship you designed and that you don't want it on 
his web site.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service, Bureau of Ships, is pleased to
announce BuShips has selected Phoenix Corporation's submission as the 
winning proposal for IISS/BuShips 90037/03x7, an exploration and recontact 
scoutship meeting Office of Exploration requirement MIL-TD/41.  Their
proposal met the specification at the lowest cost, and included several
important habitability and growth features that will keep the P-200EX at
the forefront of the Scout Service's exploration and recontact efforts for
the forseeable future.

The Office of Exploration has an immediate requirement for these ships, and
contracts will be let for construction of ships as soon as the formal
specifications have been prepared by Phoenix Corporation and approved by
BuShips.  The Bureau will also be contacting several other yards of proven 
capability to provide a second-source manufacturing capability for these 
ships. 

A recap of requirement MIL-TD/41, and brief commentary on the successful
proposals follows this announcement.  The USP entries of all of the ships
are included in this announcement.  The full text of the proposals will be
made available shortly.

IISS OffExp Requirement MIL-TD/41:
Ships meeting the specification must:
- - Carry a Survey/Recontact team of 6 to 8 specialists.
- - Provide 16 dTons of cargo space for specialist equipment.
- - Provide 1 dTon cargo space per crewmember and specialist for consumables.
- - Be capable of one Jump-2 and 1G maneuver.
- - Be capable of wilderness refueling (skimming and purifying fuel).
- - Be armed and carry a gunner.
- - Provide for landing the Survey/Recontact team and their equipment.
- - Provide for long-term habitability for the crew and specialists.

JUDGE's NOTES: It's worth noting the things that the requirement does NOT
say: there is no mention of shops or labs, and there isn't a requirement for
a sickbay, redundant systems or high combat performance.  Since this contract
is going to be let to the lowest bidder, extra-cost items (like labs,
sickbays, or heavy armament) will make the design less competitive.  The
assumption is that the Scout Service doesn't see a need for this equipment in
_every_ starship (and so doesn't particularly want to pay for it).  If an
individual mission needs equipment, shops, or labs, these can be installed in
the specialist equipment area (which provides 16 dTons for this purpose).

The winning design, and the runners-up both follow a minimalist design
philosophy that meets the requirements without a lot of extra items (which
add extra cost to the design).  This is pretty much what I envisoned when I
wrote the specification: I was thinking of a big Scout/Courier, and not a
lab ship or a heavy patrol ship.

A general-purpose ship like this would have many uses in your Traveller
campaign.  By varying the eqiupment load (and the mix of skills in the
specialist personnel), the referee can tailor the ship to a particular
mission.  I would like to add that all of these designs are good, many are
quite imaginative and well-thought-out.  All would make useful additions to
almost any campaign.  Without further ado:

WINNER: Phoenix Corporation - P-200EX Exploration Scout (QSDS)

Type P-200EX Exploration Scout
200T           2,800m3                 Mcr 37.1
7 crew         8 Passengers            0 Low Psg
31T cargo      standard civilian       TL-12
Size: 8                                Jump: 2
Fire Control: 0                        Maneuver: 1G Thrust plates
L battery-1: 2 0 0 0                   Power Plant: 1.75
                                       Fuel: 41.9T SR
                                       Sandcaster: 1 (30)
                                       Sensor Rating: 2A 3P 0J
                                       Armour: 0 Structure: 6
                                    
JUDGE'S NOTES: This is the winning design, even after my errors in QSDS
(which affect the cost of the ship, increasing it to 64.5MCr, due to
the wrong costs for T-plate maneuver drives and jump drives) have been
taken into account.  This design is very similar to what I envisioned
when I wrote the specification.

In particular, the full large stateroom allocated to each crewmember, and
the use of the additional ("waste", or "extra") space as living spaces,
makes this design very attractive for long-term use.  The extra space
also helps the service lifetime of the ship: additional equipment can be
added to this space without compromising the overall design.

A NOTE ON USPs
As you can see from the rest of the submissions, there's a lot of variation
in the way people present USDs.  Here is the way I would have formatted
the USP for this ship:

Type P-200EX Exploration Scout
200 dTons          2800 cubic metres          MCr 64.5
7 Crew             8 Passengers               0 Low
31 dTons Cargo     Controls: Std Civilian     TL-12
8 SIZE                                        2 Jump (40 dT fuel)
0 Fire-Control                                1G / Thrust Plates
1 Laser Battery: 2-0-0-0                      1.75 Power (100Mw+75Mw)
                                              41.9 Fuel / Scoop / Refine
                                              1 Sandcaster (30)
                                              2A 3P 0J Sensor
                                              Armor 0, Structure 6

I've left the rest of the submissions in the format they were submitted,
because I haven't had a chance to re-format all of them.  The complete
submissions will be made available later.
                                    
==============================================================================

RUNNER-UP: Sunrise Exploration Vessel (QSDS)

Sunrise class Exploration Vessel
Tons 200           Volume 2800                  Cost in MCr 71.9
Crew 6             Passengers High/Medium 8     Passengers Low 16 (Emerg)
Cargo 30           Controls Military            TL 12
8 Size Rating             2 Jump Rating
0 Fire Control Rating     1 G Rating/Thrusters
L Battery 2-0-0-0         2 Power Plant Rating
                          41 Fuel Rating/Scoop/Refine
                          A2 P3 J0 Sensor Rating
                          10 Armor      9 Structure
Observation Raft

JUDGE'S NOTES: This design is very similar in may respects to the winning
entry.  The main functional differences are the provision of emergency low
berths and the observation raft (there are also some differences in the
electronics).  This design was better-liked than the Phoenix entry bu the
Exploration Office personnel; there is talk within the Exploration Office
of issuing a requirement for a second-source on the Survey/Recontact
starship contract so that examples of the Sunrise design can be purchased
as well.

==============================================================================


RUNNER-UP: Portsoy Yard - Portsoy Class Exploration/Recontact Vessel (SSDS)

Portsoy Class Exploration / Recontact Vessel											
Tons: 200      Volume: 2800                   Cost in MCr: 94
Crew: 6        Passengers High/Medium:8       Passengers Low 0/16 emergency
Cargo:30       Controls: Exploration/Survey   Tech Level 12	
8 Size Rating               2 Jump Rating
0 Fire Control Rating       1 G Rating
L Battery 1- 1,0,0,0      1.5 Power Rating
                           80 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                           10A 04P 00J Sensor Rating
                            1 Armor 12 Structure

JUDGE's NOTES: This design is similar to the above two, and has a better
sensor suite (which itself is part of the reason for a higher cost) and
extended jump range (the ship can perform 2 jumps between refueling).
However, habitability suffers since most of the crew and specialists are
required to use small staterooms (which is not good).  The lower
habitability, combined with the higher costs, was enough to cost Portsoy
Yard this contract.

The rest of the entries follow, in no particular order.

==============================================================================

Granville Brothers Aircraft - Herstron Survey/Contact Ship (SSDS)

Herstron Class Survey/Contact Ship Specifications

Tech Level: 12 
Tons: 200 
Volume: 2,800 
Cost in MCr: 101.9 w/standard component discount
Crew: 7
Cargo: 434m3 or 31dtons 
Controls: Exploration/Survey

Sensor Ratings 
Active EMS: 10 
Passive EMS: 4 
Jammers: 0 
Masking: NO 

Size Rating: 8 
Armor: 1 according to SSDS (should be 10 but there is no official errata as
yet)
Structure: 6 
Jump Rating: 2 
G Rating/Maneuver Drive: 1 
Power Plant Rating: 1.5 
Fuel Rating: 41
Scoops: Yes 
Refinery: Yes 8 1/3 dtons/hour 

Fire Control Rating: 0 
Laser Battery: 1 x 1/0/0/0 
Meson Screen Rating: 0 
Damper Rating: 0 

JUDGE's NOTES: This well-established firm is best known for their high
speed (and difficult-to-fly) racing yachts.  Though much-sought-after
by civilian racing enthusiasts, the firm has yet to make a military sale.  ;-)

==============================================================================

GSbAG - Giovanni Caboto (SSDS)

   Giovanni Caboto - Exploration/Survey Ship
Tons: 400                  Volume: 5600   Cost: 310 MCr + Boat
Crew: 12                   Passengers: 8
Cargo: 40                  Controls: Std Auto/Dynamic/Bridge TL: 12
8 Size Rating              2 Jump Rating
4 Fire Control             3 G Rating/Thrusters
L Battery 1 - 4/2/0/0      2.5 Power Plant
                           1195 Fuel Rating/Scoop/Refine
                           0 Meson Screen
                           1 Sandacaster
                           0 Damper
                           10 A 4 P 0 J (EMM) Sensors
                           30 Armor  12 Structure

   Sebastian Cabot - Survey/Landing Boat
Tons: 50                   Volume: 700       Cost: 84 MCr
Crew: 2 (Pilot & Gunner)   Passengers: 6 (couches)
Cargo: 12                  Controls: High Auto/Dynamic/Bridge TL: 12
7 Size Rating              0 Jump Rating
0 Fire Control             5 G Rating/Thrusters
L Battery 1 - 1/0/0/0      6 Power Plant
                           22.5 Fuel Rating
                           0 Meson Screen
                           0 Sandcaster
                           0 Damper
                           10 A 4 P 0 J (EMM) Sensors
                           10 Armor  7 Structure=09

JUDGE'S NOTES: This is a good, solid design for a very capable ship.  Ships
like this will probably be procured by the Scout Service, but not under the
current Survey/Recontact requirement.  The Scout Service may recommend that
GSbAG re-submit their proposal as a long-range Exploration/Survey ship.
This ship also had one of the best pieces of supporting text of any entry.

==============================================================================

TEK Industries FS-0 "Voyager" (QSDS 1.4)

Tons: 300 Disk SL        Volume:4200         Cost 168.75Mcr
Crew:18             Pass(H/M):2H/16M
               Pass(low):(4 Emg)
     Labortories: 5 (1 is sick bay)
Cargo:44tons        Avionics:TL-12 Std       Como:TL-12 Imp
     (16tons science equip)
     (18 tons personal)
     (4 tons for air raft)
     (2 ton for sur-sats<8>)
     (5 tons Misc)
8 Size Factor                      2 Jump Rate
4 Fire Control                     2g Thrust Plates
L Batt #1 3-2-0-0                       3 Power Plant Rate
L Batt# 2 3-2-0-0                       65.3 Fuel Rate(S&R)
Sandcaster Rate 2                       10A 4P 10J
(30 shots per + 1 full reload per)           20 Armour 12 Structure

JUDGE's NOTES: I was wondering how many 300-ton ships would be submitted.
The size is a natural for the requirement, but is unfortunately not
cost-competitive with a 200-ton ship.  For the Scout Service's requirements,
a 200-ton ship also has a crew cost advantage: a 200-ton ship can be
operated on routine missions by a crew of 2.  Scouts are usually
cross-trained in a number of areas, so that if an emergency arises, the
survey specialists can be called upon to man additional crew positions.
Ships larger than 200 tons require full crewing for even routine
operations.

==============================================================================

Founder ShipWorks - Explorer 1000 (SSDS)

Founder Explorer 1000   
Tons:1000     Volume: 14,000                       Cost:630.5 Mcr Crew
41         Passengers: High/Middle: 9    Low: 27 Cargo 150     
Controls:Exploration Survey   Tech Level: 12 Size Rating 9   
Fire Control: 4                                2 Jump Rating 
1 L Battery 2, 1,1,0                        6 G Rating
1 L Battery 2,1,1,0                         1 Power Rating
PA Battery 6,6,4,3                         2675 S/R  Fuel Rating
                                                        10A 4P EMM    
                                                        9 Armor  13.2
                                                        Structure
                                                        Sandcaster 2
                                                        (60)

JUDGE's NOTES: Some of the Scout Service evaluators were wondering if this
ship was intended for the Navy's Long-Range Patrol requirement, instead of
the Scout Service's Survey/Recontact mission.  This is a highly capable ship
(particularly in terms of combat performance), but is much too large and
expensive for the MIL-TD/41 mission.  Such a ship might be operated by the
Navy, though.

==============================================================================

Long Range Scout (design system unknown)

Tons:600                          Volume:8400
                                   Cost in Mcr:287.9105      Crew:18
                          Passengers High/Med:8                  Passengers
low:0 
Cargo:50                        Controls:Standard Dynamic Linked Tech
Level:12  
 8 Size Rating
                                                                            2
Jump Rating
 4 Fire Control Rating
                                                                    1 Plate G
Rating
 Quad 67 Mj laser 3/3/2/1
                                                            1.08 Power Plant
Rating
                                                                      1728.75
Fuel Rating/S/R
                                                                          10A
4P 0J Sensor  Rate
                                                                     Armor:20
   Structure:10
On board Small Craft     Explorer

Tons:30                               Vol:420
                                             Cost in Mcr:64.2635
Crew:1                                 Passengers:8    
Cargo:1.2                           Controls: Standard Dynamic linked Tech
Level: 12
7 Hull size                                                              4
High Efficiency Contra Gravity G Rating
0 Fire control
                                                                           10
Power Plant Rating 
                                                                           15
Fuel Rating
                                                                          10A
4P 0J Sensor Rating
                                                                      Armor:5
        Structure:1

JUDGE's NOTES: I wasn't able to determine which desigh system (QSDS or SSDS)
this ship was constructed with (the rest of the submission was as scrambled
as this USP is), and from some of the text it appeared that it may have been
designed using one of the FF&S design spreadsheets out there.  In any case,
the ship is too large and too expensive to be competitive.

==============================================================================

Meridian (Griffon, Tomashi & Vilasshin) - Beagle Class Scout Frigate (QSDS)

Beagle Class Scout Frigate
Tons	500	Volume 7000	Cost 157 mCr (incl QDS discount)*
Crew	13	Passengers H/M/L 	6/0/0
Cargo	73	Controls Std. Mil	TL 12
Size	8				Jump	2				
Fire Cont. 4 				G-rate	2
1 Civ. High Power laser 2,0,0,0		Power	2.2
1 Missile Turret 2 missiles		Fuel 	106 SR
					Sand Casters 1 (30)
					Sensors 10A 4P 10J
Armor	20				Structure	16 (Slab Streamlined)

JUDGE's NOTES: This highly-capable vessel appears to be an moble laboratory
ship, and is quite effective in that role.  The inclusion of a separate
laboratory computer system was a nice refinement.  The Scout Service may
procure a limited number of these vessels as research ships.

==============================================================================

Famille Spofulam -  Brebeuf class Recontact Scout (SSDS)

Disp: 300Td                   Vol: 4,200 m^3            Cost: 176.57 Mcr
Crew: 9                       Pass H/M: 8               Pass L: 8
Cargo: 34 Td                  Controls: TL-12 hi auto   TL: 12
USD size 8                 02 Jump rating
00 Fire control            04G M-drive rating (3 main, 1 aux)
H.laser: 2/1/0/0*          3.3 power plant rating
                           105 Fuel rating/scoop/refine
                           01 Sandcaster rating (30 canisters
                           10A/4P/0J Sensor rating
                           08 Armour rating*
                           02 Structure rating*

JUDGE's NOTES: Another 300-ton design, this ship's cost is too high to be
competitive.  The design is well-thought-out, but over-performance with
respect to the RFP resulted in a high cost.  Famille Spofulam would do well
to offer this model for sale to corporations as private explorers.

==============================================================================

VATE Starship Yards - Exploration Scout 3C-212-X "Darning Needle"  (SSDS)

Tons: 300 Needle Airframe       Volume: 4200 m^3                         Co=
st: MCr148.56
Crew: 9                                          Passengers: 8 High/Middle =
(large staterooms)
Cargo: 49.6                                  Controls: Civilian Standard   =
       Tech Level: 12
Size: 8                                           with Medium Integration
Fire Control: 0                              Jump Rating 2
Hvy Laser Btty 3,2,0,0                G-Rating 1-Thruster Plates
1 TL C Sandcaster, factor 2      Power Plant 2 (250 MW Fusion, 3.7 MW spare=
)
                                                       Fuel: 877.5 SR (840 =
j-fuel, 37.5 p-fuel)
                                                       Exploration/Survey P=
ackage (A10 P4 J0)
                                                       Armour Value: 10  St=
ructure: 8
Extras:
2 Large Cargo Hatches, 1 Machine Shop, 1 Electronics Shop, 2 Person Sickbay=
,=20
4 Laboratories

JUDGE's NOTES: This is another 300-ton ship, and includes a large number of
laboratories and shops.  This ship was not a winner, but was one of the most
cost-effective of the 300-ton designs submitted.  This might be an effective
small lab ship to give to the player characters in the course of a
campaign.

==============================================================================

VATE Starship Yards - Survey Scout (FF&S)

Survey Scout					
Tons 120		Volume 1680		Cost in MCr 141.131
Crew 7			Passengers High 0/Medium 8
			Passengers Low 0
Cargo 32		Controls: Fib		TL 12
8 Size Rating		2 Jump Rating
4 Fire Control Rating	2 G Rating/Thruster plate
L Battery 1: 2-1-0-0	2.5 Power Plant Rating
			25.6 Fuel Rating/Scoop/Refine
			10A 3P 0J Sensor Rating/EM Masking
			20 Armor		6 Structure

JUDGE's NOTE: This ship was disqualified, because it was designed with Fire,
Fusion and Steel (and not one of the T4 design systems).  It does give you
an example of what can be done with an optimized FF&S design.

==============================================================================

Fuzhon Institute - "Discovery" Class Heavy Surveyor FIR-D101B  (QSDS)

Tons 700           Volume 9800            Cost (MCr) 268.2 (with QSD discount)
Crew 29*           Passengers (Hi\Med) 0  Low 0
Cargo 68.4         Controls Mil\Bridge    TL 12

8 Size Rating                             2 Jump Rating
4 Fire Control Rating                     2 G Rating\Thrust-Plate
L Military Battery 4/3/2/0                2.1 Power Plant Rating
                                          100SR Fuel Rating
                                          A10 P4 J10 Sensors
                                          10 Armour
                                          16 Structure

JUDGE's NOTES: Another large ship (with corresponding large price tag).

==============================================================================


Kieridan Spaceworks - Prophet Class Deep Space Explorer (QSDS?)

Prophet class deep explorer
Tons: 500		Volume: 7000			Cost in MCr: 243.09
Crew: 8		Passengers/High Medium: 8	Passengers Low: 16
Cargo: 32		Controls: Civilian/Standard	Tech Level: 12

8 Size Rating				2 Jump Rating
0 Fire Control Rating			1 G Rating
L Battery 2-0-0-0			2 Power Plant Rating
					104 Fuel Rating /Refine
					A10 P4 J0 Sensor Rating
					10 Armor	14 Structure
Vehicles: Survey Cutter (three modules), four Escape Pods, Mobile Grav
Laboratory, four survey drones.
Features: Backup jump-1 drive, backup 1-G drive, backup 75MW power plant,
solar power emergency system, backup sensors, backup controls, backup
communications, two laboratories, sick bay, engineering shop, vehicle shop.

Survey Cutter
Tons: 50		Volume: 700			Cost in MCr: 24.8
Crew: 2		Passengers/High Medium: 6	Passengers Low: 16 Emerg
Cargo: 1		Controls: Civilian/Standard	Tech Level: 12

7 Size Rating				0 Jump Rating
0 Fire Control Rating			1 G Rating
					2 Power Plant Rating
					4 Fuel Rating /Scoops
					A2 P4 J0 Sensor Rating
					10 Armor	4 Structure
Vehicles: Thirty ton auxillary module. Standard modules include Transport,
Fuel Skimming, and Laboratory

JUDGE's NOTES: The backup and emergency systems on this ship are quite
impressive, and the ship seems highly survivable.  The Scout Service
believes that the MIL-TD/41 does not call for such a highly survivable ship.
However, this design may be more suitable for the service's  forthcoming
requirements for a long-range exploration and survey ship.

==============================================================================

Luwas, Tsefe, and Drummond - ABELARD Class Exploration/Recontact Cruiser (SSDS)

ABELARD-class IISS Exploration/Recontact Cruiser
Tons:   400 dt      Volume:     5,600 m3               Cost: 433 MCr
Crew:   15 + 6      Passengers: 0                      Low:  5 Emrgncy LB
Cargo:  21 dt       Controls:   Survey/AdvCiv Std      TL:   12
 8  Size Rating                 2    Jump Rating
 4  Fire Control Rating         1.5  G Rating
1xL Battery - 2, 0, 0, 0        1    Power Plant
1xL Battery - 1, 0, 0, 0       82/R  Fuel Rating
                                4A 4P 0J Sensor Rating
                              (10A 6P 0J Unfolded)
                                6  Armor   11  Structure
Cutters x 3 (Fuelx2, Surveyx1)

JUDGE's NOTES: This ship is very expensive, particularly for it's size.  The
large crew also contributes to the cost of the ship (the ship's operational
crew outnumber the "payload" of specialists by more than 2:1).

==============================================================================

New California Shipyards - Magellan class deep survey vessel (SSDS)

(No USP given) 200-tons, 135.5639MCr

JUDGE's NOTES: A little more expensive than most of the other 200-ton
entries, and the lack of a detailed USP, both handicapped this entry.

==============================================================================

Centaur Enterprises - Wayfarer Scout Cruiser (SSDS)

Wayfarer Scout Cruiser
Tons: 400       Volume:5600m^3      Cost: MCr 160.22
Crew: 9         Passengers H/M:8/0  Passengers L:0
Cargo: 33tons   Controls:Std        Tech Level:12

8:Size Rating           Jump Rating: 2
4:Fire Control          G Rating/Manuver Drive: 1/Heplar (50 Gturns of fuel)
1xHvy Laser:3-1-0-0     Power Plant:2
                        Fuel Rating:84 tons /S /R
                        Meson Screen:0
                        Sand Caster: 0
                        Damper:0
                        A:10 P:4 J:0

                        Armor:20    Structure:9
Notes:The price doesn't include the small craft carried.

JUDGE's NOTES: This is a fairly cost-effective 400-ton design.  There were
suprisingly few 400-ton designs; I had expected most entries to be in the
200 to 400 ton range.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #913
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 4 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 914



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Measurement Systems
OFFICIAL SSDS/QSDS/FFS/NAH QUESTION
Vestiges
What do we want to see in JTAS26?
Re: Contest Entries
[Traveller Answer] Armor Conversions
Full Thrust for Traveller, anyone?
QSDS contest & Planet X Stuff(In charact
STARSHIPS and the Starship Design Contest
Sumer and Vland
re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: G or not G update
Re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: BB, BC & Naval Doctrines
Re: Aging in MMT4...
Questions about solar system formation
Re: T4 Missiles (kinda long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:02:38 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: Measurement Systems

I like the idea of using X-Boat clocks as standard time, however i would
modify it slightly to using the average of the last 5 x-boat clock times
this way you wouldn't get such a large jump in time if an X-boat misjumps.




Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:12:49 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: OFFICIAL SSDS/QSDS/FFS/NAH QUESTION

>Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:00:15 -0700
>From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
>Subject: Re: Mayday

<<<..snippage...>>>

>	During the rather hectic one week in which we had to design SSDS for Don
>Perrin, we repeatedly asked which portions of FF&S were going to change
>significantly. The only areas we were told to change were: fusion plant
>minimum sizes (below TL12: x10), thruster plates (back as official
>technology; cost x0.25), jump fuel (back to 10% per Jn) and contragravity
>effects (back to providing lift AND thrust).
>
>	I (and others) knew that Greg Porter would be designing Vehicles and
>Weapons. Knowing that he was the author of "Guns, Guns, Guns," we figured
>he would probably have a different perspective on weapons performance (and
>hence armor ratings) than FF&S, and we asked (ad nauseam) for some guidance
>as to how to handle them.
>
>	All we got back from Don was "Stick with FF&S, with minimal changes as
>absolutely necessary. We're coming out first; everybody after us will have
>to conform to what we do with Starships. Greg will live with it." It was
>frustrating, because I already had an idea as to what was coming, but I
>hoped it was true.

<<<...snippage...>>>

>This disconnect is something that needs to be fixed in NAH, but how hasn't
>been determined yet. It shouldn't require any serious changes in the design
>sequence itself--that's just based on the hull thickness and material type.
>But how the armor is rated at the end should be fairly easy to change.
>
>And we may have the opportunity... remember the announcement about planned
>fixes to the Starships book.
>
>- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --


Dave, does this mean that the final actual changes to FFS have yet to be
determined?  I see the list above (PP, T-Plates, J-Fuel, and CG) and I think
I remember these items being mentioned before.  Were these the only changed
made to FFS to do SSDS and QSDS?

Now, however, I interpret your statement above about NAH that there will be
additional changes made?  If that is correct, what are they (if you know
yet)?  Thanks for the help

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:42:47 -0600 (CST)
From: lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: Vestiges

        In my quest to write adventures for JTAS, I had to search high and
low for issue 25, in order to get a feel for what was being published, the
format, etc.  After many misadventures, I managed to get a copy this
weekend, and after reading both adventures, I must agree with Mr.
Alos-Ferrer's assertion.  Both adventures seemed to have serious problems,
though "Silver Moon" was by far the worst.
        The main problems with "Vestiges" is that it didn't seem very well
thought-out.  For instance:

        1.)  The research foundation carved an installation into the living
rock of a mountain, and no one noticed?  Who did the work, Secret Research
Installations Unlimited?
        2.) The researchers developed psi shields and a psionic dampening
field at TL 10?  Didn't think that was possible until TL 14 or 15.
        3.) The attack by the Order of Investigation (not appearing in this
adventure):
                a.) Since when do "sophisticated military teams"
spray-paint their logo all over their target, especially
                     considering that they're planning to bury the place
when they're done?  I suppose they could have
                     resorted to the graffiti before the decision to bury
the place was made- during the initial attack, say.
                     (Cover me, Jim- I'm going to paint the logo!)
                b.) The team suffered two casualties.  Instead of recovering
the bodies and taking them back, they were
                     buried at the site ALONG WITH THEIR PERFECTLY GOOD
EQUIPMENT?  Maybe they got killed
                     painting the logos, and the LT was showing his
displeasure with them.
                c.) You have a well-armed, highly-trained commando team
attacking a site that they know is used for 
                     psionic research, yet they are unable to turn the
Nefarious Psionic Creature into chopped liver?
        4.) Show me a creature that can hibernate for 94 years and I'll show
you a beast with a serious obesity problem.  "Stasis" doesn't mean it simply
switches itself off and on at will.  There has to be some modicum of
neurological interaction going on to maintain minimal life.  That requires
energy, which would have to be stored in the body, which normally takes the
form of fat cells.
        5.) Finally, if the fusion reactor is "leaking" radiation from it's
magnetic bottles, doesn't it stand to reason that it would be leaking the
real high-energy stuff, like X-rays?  If the bottle is strong enough to
still contain the fusion reaction, it stands to reason that only the
upper-end radiation is going to be able to get past the magnetic field.  In
which case any character entering the reactor room is going to die, swiftly
and gruesomely.

        I won't even go into "Silver Moon".  Did anyone else notice that the
skill rolls used in both adventures were in MT format, not T4?  Were these
adventures submitted before the authors even had a chance to look at the T4
rules?
        Like T4, I think JTAS has great potential, once it gets past some
serious teething troubles.  I'm doing my best to make my adventures as close
to canon as possible, as well as being both logical and entertaining.  If
and when they are published, I hope you guys will go after them hammer and
tongs, poking and prodding them for inconsistencies.  If any get past me, I
need to know, because it means I'm falling down on the job.

Mike Lee
Classic Traveller player since 1978
Freelance game writer since 1989

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:56:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>
Subject: What do we want to see in JTAS26?

Seeing the recent slagging of 'The Silver Moon Incident' got me thinking 
about what I'd like to see in JTAS 26, when 'ere it arrives.

Firstly I'd like to see at least two Milleau 0 articles, say a portrait 
of the Emperor, a jingoistic history lesson from the nascent Third 
Imperium's perspective, or even a tabloid-esque paranoid rant about the 
dangers of expanding interstellar civilization - 'look what happened to the 
Rule of Man....' and 'do we really want to emulate the Villani Empire?'

A ship plan would be nice, as would a new or old  minor human or alien 
race - maybe a report on the Vargr.

The TNS would be vital, though possibly under a 'new' name.

One large and two-to three small adventures would be ideal, the large one 
would have to be pretty innovative, and really get the players into 
Milleau 0.

Apart from that, a personality or a list of new equipment wouldn't be bad.

Of course, if I saw art from Rob Caswell, Blair Renolds, or any of the 
'old' traveller artists, I'd be pleased with almost anything (well, 
almost pleased.)

Eamon.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:46:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: Contest Entries

> >To anyone who entered the January ship design contest: I'd like
> >to archive all of the entries on my web page. If you're interested in having
> >your design put up, please email me a copy of your entry or tell me where
> >I can download a copy and I'll put it up.
> 
> 
>         I've been meaning to suggest this for days, but kept on forgetting:
> Wildstar, why don't you post all entries to the list, not just the winner
> and a runner-up?  I'd be really interested in seeing how other people
> addressed the problem (other than the usual Famille Spofulam massive
> overkill route that I took), and I'm sure others would be too; it'd make
> for some fun discussion-fodder.

Well, I thought I'd put it up on the web for two reasons, as opposed to
asking to get it on the list:

1) Too big. It would really flood the list if all the designs were
   posted, I think.
2) I wanted to make sure I had permission from all the authors to post
   the designs publically. Maybe everyone doesn't want the world to see
   their great design...

Oh, and silly me, after I posted the URL, I went and changed it. Sorry.
It's http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/jancontest/index.html
now.

And BTW, WHO WON?????? 

Ethan
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 10:23:05 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Armor Conversions

David JAQUES-WATSON asked:
> Can you please answer my [OFFICIAL] question below

Sure!  Official questions, particularly about the various design systems
(QSDS, SSDS, and VDS) can be addressed to me, wildstar@qrc.com.  Though
I'm behind in my e-mail, I'll try to give "Traveller Answers" to official
questions as promptly as possible (particularly if you indicate that it's a
Traveller rules question in your subject line).

Dave, could you please forward a copy of this to David?  You didn't put his
e-mail address in your reply.

> >How does the armour in CSC (Central Supply Catalog) equate with the armour 
> >in QSDS/SSDS/etc? And how do the weapons equate?

Dave is quite correct: they don't really equate.  However, Greg Porter (the
author of CSC, and the designer of the T4 weapons and armor) has suggested a
procedure.

Dave Golden (goldendj@usa.net) wrote:

> [The conversion procedure suggested by Dave]

Greg Porter suggests in CSC that the armor be converted on the basis of
eqiuvalent thicknesses of hard steel.  This procedure is a little easier
than the one Dave outlined (*).  Here's the recommended (official)
conversion procedure for armor values:

1) If using QSDS (T4 starship) values, divide by 10 to get SSDS values.
2) Convert SSDS armor to cm of steel (eqivalent) using the table in SSDS.
3) Convert centimeters of steel to CSC (vehicle/personal) armor values
   by taking the cube root of this value, and multiplying the result by 6.

You can convert starship weapons to the personal/vehicle scale by taking the
short-range damage value by the same procedure.  NOTE that QSDS (T4
starship) weapon damage values do NOT need to be divided by 10 (just armor
values).

I've prepared a table to handle most of the conversions you'll need in
the typical Traveller game.  Use the "SSDS Armor" column to convert
weapon penetrations.  See below.

David JAQUES-WATSON asked:
>If I fire my CSC heavy tank's main gun at a starship, what happens?

You can use the following table to convert the armor values.

QSDS	SSDS	CM	T4
Armor	Armor	Steel	Armor
0	0	10	13
10	1	20	16
20	2	40	21
30	3	80	26
40	4	120	30
50	5	160	33
60	6	200	35
70	7	250	38
80	8	300	40
90	9	400	44
100	10	500	48
110	11	750	55
120	12	1000	60
130	13	1250	65
140	14	1500	69
150	15	1750	72
160	16	2000	76
170	17	2500	81
180	18	3000	87
190	19	3500	91
200	20	4000	95

Example: A starship is being fired on by a grav tank.  The starship's USP
lists the armor as "20"; for purposes of resolving the fire, treat the
tank's target as (T4 personal/vehicle scale) armor value 21.  If the tank
penetrates, the referee should implement an internal hit.

It's also worth remembering that starship weapons and vehicle weapons are
very different beasts (even though the converted penetration may be the
same).  A laser-armed tank's main weapon fires a beam with a diameter
measured in centimeters.  A starship turret weapon fires a beam nearly
a meter in diameter.

While the tank's laser may hole the starship, the starship's return fire is
going to put the tank in a whole new world of hurt.  I'd suggest that small
(vehicle) weapons firing at starships:
1) Not reduce starship armor factors, and
2) Not produce critical hits.

For starships firing at vehicles, IF the vehicle's armor rating is higher
than the damage value of the weapon, then the referee should implement
massive surface damage (antennas melted, firing ports fused shut, etc) but
no penetration of the interior.  If the starship's weapon penetrates the
armor of the vehicle, it's almost certainly toast.

For starships firing at personnel, the main question is wether or not there
are enough large pieces left to positively identify the casualty.


(*) Note: there are two valid approaches to converting between the armor
    systems.  Dave's approach is to re-rate the armor, as if the armor had
    been constructed using the CSC (vehicle) rules.  This approach will
    result in different amounts of protection before and after the
    conversion; thus, if 100cm of some type of armor were worth (say) a 
    meter of steel in one system, the same 100cm of armor may be worth
    750cm of steel in the other system.
    Greg's approach is to maintain the reletave protection of the armor, and
    ignore the actual thickness of the material.  This way, if the armor
    was equivalent to (say) a meter of steel in one system, it would be
    equivalent to a meter of steel in the other system.  Greg's conversion
    method has the additional advantages of being several steps shorter,
    and it is possible to use this method when you don't know the type
    of material the armor is made out of.
    The table I included (above) was computed using Greg's method, and is
    valid for any type of armor material.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:37:11 -0600
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: Full Thrust for Traveller, anyone?

Are there any other players of Full Thrust on this list? I'd like to start
serious work on a conversion for T4.

Full Thrust game is quick and fun, and *should* be able to form an
approximation of Traveller combat, if a modified movement system and other
tweaks are added.

It'll never replace Brilliant Lances as a simulator, but I think it's a ton
of fun. :-)

E-mail me if anyone wants to form a team to see if this sucker can't fit.

John Kovalic
muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com



********************************************************
           "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                     - Arthur Dent
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*                                 "Wild Life": a Web comic --
*
*              MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
*
********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:03:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: QSDS contest & Planet X Stuff(In charact

From Commander X
(pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

Press Release:  034-0001  DSS-X "Planet X"

In gentlmanly conduct this morning, our glorius leader, Commander X, 
congratulated Andrew Vallance of the Phoenix Corporation in recieving the 
Emperor's Favor.  Mr. Vallance's company produced the  P-200EX Exploration 
Scout, which proved to be the most worthy design.

Wither the "Voyager"?  It is believed that the Commander has plans for that 
design as he was seen talking with the infamous "Men in Black" of Imperial 
Intelegence.

Press Release: 035-0001 DSS-X  "Planet X"

The Commander anounced today that the IIA(Imperial Inteligence Agency) has 
concluded an investigation of X-TEK Industries Incorporated and discovered 
some minor violations, especialy in submitting what was a corsair design 
,modifyed, as the "Voyager" ,to gain His Magesty's favor.  Cleon was not 
completely antagonised by this, as a matter of fact, as the Commander says, 
Cleon and more importantly the IIA have expressed an intrest in the Corsair 
design, but suggest adding top secret devices to the "Shaddenpanzer" Class 
corsair.  This ship is to be used eclusively by the IIA and is not to be 
sold to anyone not of proper security clearence.  It was either do this, or 
loose his buisness licence!  Of course the Commander agreed.  Production of 
this vessel, codename "Fnord" is now underway.

(The man comes out from behind the curtain)
(Character mode off)

I wish to express my congratulations to Andrew Vallance.  May he continue to 
keep the Traveller tradition, style, philosophy, comraderie, and most of of 
the FUN of the game alive, as do we all.

Well done, well done indeed!

Wm. R. Prankard IV aka Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:17:36 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: STARSHIPS and the Starship Design Contest

It struck me when reviewing the post on the contest winners that here's 
something I've always wanted.  Allow me to explain:

Traveller has always had numerous ships, but they all did different things -
I've wanted a number of designs which did the same thing, with minor or
significant differences due to the design methodology.  Also, STARSHIPS
sucked...

So, I'd like to propose that we, the TML, take the standard CT/MT ship
designs, starting with the old 100-ton Scout, develop a "specification"
for that design, and run a contest for that "specification".  The winning
design, and the others, represent everything from the standard Scout
procurement, to what they would buy in a pinch...

And with the Free Trader design, well, there really should be some 
significant differences between the way General Starships and Ling Standard
build their craft, while matching the same "specification".

Also, with the merchant ships, the new "specification" should match the
efficiencies of the trade/merchant system, and not necessarily the old
ship (although if they agree closely, that would be great).

And - we get 6 to 8 good scout designs...

I loved the contest - just wish I could understand QSDS enough to do this...
- --
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist,           (217) 351-8250 x2365 = 
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL       dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXIV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 14-16, 1997 =
= Official Kibitzer and Archivist for Digest Group Publications            =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org       (217) 469-9917 = 
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:43:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@eskimo.com>
Subject: Sumer and Vland

Well, I see my innocent little suggestion <g> has sparked a whole
lot of discussion, which is nice.  [Of course, this may be the last
time I wait until after the weekend to read my mail.]

One might, of course, notice the parallel between Aslan and Solomani,
both of whom "discovered" jump drive on their own while, just as
a coincidence, being right at the edge of the sphere of influence 
of another race that had previously discovered jumpdrive ;)


Tony Z

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:45:33 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Missile Systems for T4

Jeff Kazmierski" <odysseus@novia.net> wrote

>  Much has been discussed on the subject of space missiles for MMT, but
>little has been actually done.  With the release of both Starships and the
>Central Supply Catalog, we have the tools necessary to build reasonably
effective missile systems for Traveller, with a little effort.  I've
>compiled some of the tables and data that I feel are relevant to the
>subject, and combined them into what I think is a good system for designing
>missiles.

(1) This is really a topic for the gdw-beta list, because there's going to be
a *lot* of argument about the details (which is part of why no-one has 
discussed it yet.) I'm sending this to both traveller-list and gdw-beta,
but I would recommend future discussion go only in gdw-beta

>I.  Missile Hulls
>Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons

As others have pointed out, there's no reason to streamline them. Also, we
should have options for quarter-ton and one-ton missiles.
And armoured missiles.

>High Explosive Warheads
>  HE warheads are used in missiles available for civilian use.  Using them
>requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
>kilometers

The problem with these is that the target ship's own lasers can't possibly 
miss the incoming missile at ranges of 4 km. (Or, in fact, out to about
5000 km.) People have worked on design sketches for "BB" missiles with
fragmentation warheads that detonate at ranges of a few thousand km - those
are somewhat more practical (though still have trouble overcoming good point
defences.) 

>Fuzing Lidars
It's not clear why you need this - the main missile sensor will tell you when
to detonate.

>  Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10 and
>Thrusters at TL-12

We should also allow EAPlaC propulsion; although it's somewhat miraculously
good, it fits well with everyone's mental models of what a missile should
be like (cheap, moderate delta-V, expendable.) To get good performance
with EAPlaC (or even HEPlaR) you need to calculate delta-V 
correctly.

>12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant fuel
Thrusters have a minimum volume of 10 m3 (from CSC, and generally agreed
to by the beta-list.)

>All electronic systems are added according to
>values listed in the Central Supply Catalog.

I would use the sensors from FFS, which are somewhat more realistic for
starship weapons. Note that a FFS PEMS implicitly includes gravitic sensors,
I think.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:58:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: G or not G update

Hi.

> From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>

> But it makes perfect sense. Why would the reborn Sylea use Terran measures,
> other than for player convinence? 

> I do believe that the meter is based on some atomic measurement, so it may
> not be location relative like solar radii.

The historical origin of the meter is as 1/1000th of the kilometer,
which was defined to be one centigradient of arc of the earth's surface.
So the earth is defined to be 40,000 km in circumference.

More precise definitions have replaced this old standard.

My understanding is that Syleans do not use terran measurements, but
nobles, and the Imperium, being descended from old Terran naval rulers,
do.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:03:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4

> >High Explosive Warheads
> >  HE warheads are used in missiles available for civilian use.  Using them
> >requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
> >kilometers

  As I and Wildstar showed in the Missile article that scared GDW, 4km
is a looooong effective blast radius in space even for *nukes*.

> Bruce

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:24:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: BB, BC & Naval Doctrines

Hi.

> From: s.johnson107@genie.com

>     What we need to do is determine what the Navy of the Third Imperium is
> intended to do and THAT will determine how it's ships are design and for what
> purposes.  Massive 1,000,000 ton ships may not be terribly efficient in battle
> terms but they make a lot of sense in other terms.  Like carrying Marine
> divisions, LOTS of fighters and small craft, impressing lower tech worlds and
> so on.  So let's ask this question...

>     What are the duties of the Imperial Navy?

My Cr 0.02:

	The duties of the planetary navies: defend their homeworlds.

	The duties of the subsector (duchy) navies: keep the spacelanes
open and trade going so the nobles can get rich.

	The duties of the Imperial navy: keep the subsector and
planetary navies from rebelling, strongarm client states into
compliance.

	All three kinds of navy serve the emperor (as per their oaths of
fealty) during times of interstellar war.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:33:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Aging in MMT4...

Hi.

The tens digit is the second to last one:

age	throw higher than this to avoid ill effects
35		3
40		4
45		4
50		5
55		5
60		6
65		6
70		7
75		7
80		8
85		8
90		9
95		9
100		10
105		10
etc.		etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:05:23 -0800
From: cwebb@ctainforms.com (Christopher E. Webb)
Subject: Questions about solar system formation

(No, the following questions are not directly related to Traveller, but I
figured at least a few people out there have access to better information than
I do.  Anyway, the questions relate to a Traveller campaign I hope to get
organized within a couple of months.)

I've a couple of questions about the formation of solar systems that I came
up with after downloading the source code for Accrete from the 3D 
starmap webpage (http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html).  I set about
modifying the program so that it would generate the planets and moons after
prompting for solar mass and luminosity, but ran in to a few things I wasn't
sure about:

1)  What is the lower limit for the mass of a brown dwarf?  I've found mention
of an upper limit on the 'net of .08 solar masses, but I didn't find a clear
mention of a lower limit.

2)  Are there any guidelines for the size of a world's satellites in relation
to the world itself (such as: a moon of a solid planet should mass less than
X% of its parent world, while the moon of a gas giant should mass less than Y%
of its parent world)?

Those are the only pressing questions I've run into so far . . .

Any responses are appreciated.

Christopher Webb
cwebb@mail.ctainforms.com

------------------------------

Date: 4 Feb 97 08:27:14 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Missiles (kinda long)

	
>Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:28:51 -0800
>From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
>Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4
>
>Jeff Kazmierski wrote:
>> 
>> I.  Missile Hulls
>> 
>>   Space Missiles use a standardized hull form of Streamlined Cylinder,
>> displacing 0.5 Tons (7 cubic meters).
>
>Why "streamlined" if they're being used in the vacuum of space?

I'd assumed that missiles would occasionally be used in atmospheric
operations (orbital bombardment, etc), making streamlining desirable. 
Also, streamlined hulls minimize the amount of "jaggy things" on the
surface, making them easier to auto-load.  Seems to make sense to me;
comments?
>
>
>> Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons
>> 
>> Volume = 7.0 kl
>> Factor = 0.195
>> Area =  19.5 square meters
>> Length = 4.7 meters
>> Width  = 1.4 meters
>> Height = 1.4 meters
>> Price = x0.8MCr
>> 
>> Base Structure = 2.726 kl (14Gs)
>> Base Armor     = 0.002 kl (0.01 cm, AV x0.2)
>
>Is there a minimum AV required of starships as protection against
>cosmic radiation, micrometeoroid, etc.? If so, shouldn't it be
>required of missiles to ensure their electronics don't get damaged
>until detonation?

The hulls designed in my post were built using VDS; I think an average VDS
armor value of 2 should be enough to protect against small micrometeor
hits, but I see no reason individual designers shouldn't increase the
armor.  The base AV won't provide any protection against lasers, and it
would be kind of hard to get any protection without decreasing the
missile's performance.
> 
>
>> II.  Missile Warheads
>> 
>> Nuclear Warheads
><snip>
>> same hex as the detonation itself.  At TL-15, the range can be extended
to
>> the six hexes adjacent to the detonation hex by doubling the volume and
>> mass of the warhead.  The number of hits is reduced to 1d6-3 and damage
is
>
>Does the number of hits reduction mean that a successful Gunnery roll
>can
>still result in no hits (not sure I like this, especially when using an
>expensive, effective nuke) or is a minimum of one hit assumed?

The hit reduction only applies to hits outside the det hex.  I think I may
have meant 1d3 hits instead of 1d6.
>
>
>> High Explosive Warheads
>> 
>> requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
>> kilometers, and require a short-range fuzing laser to arm the warhead
for
>> detonation.  Maneuvering the missile into prime detonation range is a
>> Formidable Gunnery task, modified by the following DMs:
>>      DM -2 per MP spent by defending ship on evasion
>>      DM -1 per 1/2 light-second (5 hexes) of range between each ship
>>      DM +1 per MP spent by gunner in missile maneuvering
>> Outstanding results cause 1d3 additional hits to the target.  If more
than
>> one ship is in the target hex, the gunner must choose one to attack.
>> 
>> Mass = 2500 kg (2.5 tons)
>> Volume = 0.5 kiloliters
>> Type = HE Proximity Fuzed Prefragmented
>> Damage = Contact: 9  Distance: 1
>>          Blast Radius = 4000km
>
>Why have a fusing laser? Why not have the missile arm automatically soon
>after being launched or as part of the launching procedure? Per FF&S,
>each
>missile turret contains its own target guidance laser. Also, the text
>lists a blast radius of 4 km but the stats after the text list a blast
>radius of 4000 km.

Sorry about that; I wrote the system over several days and forgot to clean
up the typos.  The FF&S blast radius of a 2500kg warhead is 4000 meters,
not 4000 kilometers.

The fuzing laser is required on HE missiles for terminal guidance, to give
it the extra precision required on such systems.  That's also where the
guidance computer bonus comes in; a smarter missile gives the gunner an
edge in maneuvering the missile to its optimum detonation distance.  Nukes
don't need it; all you have to do is get the missile into the same hex and
then set it off.
>
>
>> III.  Missile Propulsion
>> 
>>   Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10
and
>> Thrusters at TL-12.  HEPlaR requires fuel and has a limited endurance,
but
>> the engines are inexpensive and take up little space.  Thrusters are
often
>> used in military missiles and have longer range, but are much more
>> expensive.  All values listed below are from Starships.
>> 
>> TL  Type       Thrust    Mass  Volume  Area  Power  MCr    FC
>> 10  HEPlaR     100 tons  0.5   0.5     1.0   5.0    0.005  1.25 kl/hour
>> LHyd
>> 12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant
fuel
>
>Hmmm...I'd personally want any missile I fire to be able to maneuver
>regardless of the distance from a gravity well. Thrusters degrade
>rapidly
>in the outer reaches of some star systems. They would be stealthier
>than HEPlaR, as you stated elsewhere, but only if the target doesn't
>have
>gravitic sensors.

I agree.  Thrusters are too expensive and too space-limited to be
effective.  But, I included them for completeness.  
>
>
>>   Gravitic sensors can be installed if the missile is intended to be
used
>> as a semi- intelligent space mine.  The missile can loiter at the edge
of a
>> mined system operating on minimal power, only becoming active when a
>> Thruster-equipped ship is detected by the missile's sensors.
>
>Combine a PEMS array with the gravitic sensor and the missile becomes
>much
>more flexible with a wider possible range of targets.
>
>All in all, I really like the direction your post is going. Enough
>detail to
>satisfy the gearhead in me and fast-moving for my referee side. Can't
>wait
>to see the rest!
>

Thanks for your comments!  I'll be posting the first designs in a few days.



Jeff Kazmierski
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #914
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 4 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 915



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4 Missiles (kinda long)
Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??
Re: What do we want to see in JTAS26?
Terran History(was Sumer....)
Re: Ship's Tactics - Any Ideas?
Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo
re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: A different take on jump drives
re: Missile Systems for T4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Feb 97 08:27:14 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Missiles (kinda long)

	
>Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:28:51 -0800
>From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
>Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4
>
>Jeff Kazmierski wrote:
>> 
>> I.  Missile Hulls
>> 
>>   Space Missiles use a standardized hull form of Streamlined Cylinder,
>> displacing 0.5 Tons (7 cubic meters).
>
>Why "streamlined" if they're being used in the vacuum of space?

I'd assumed that missiles would occasionally be used in atmospheric
operations (orbital bombardment, etc), making streamlining desirable. 
Also, streamlined hulls minimize the amount of "jaggy things" on the
surface, making them easier to auto-load.  Seems to make sense to me;
comments?
>
>
>> Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons
>> 
>> Volume = 7.0 kl
>> Factor = 0.195
>> Area =  19.5 square meters
>> Length = 4.7 meters
>> Width  = 1.4 meters
>> Height = 1.4 meters
>> Price = x0.8MCr
>> 
>> Base Structure = 2.726 kl (14Gs)
>> Base Armor     = 0.002 kl (0.01 cm, AV x0.2)
>
>Is there a minimum AV required of starships as protection against
>cosmic radiation, micrometeoroid, etc.? If so, shouldn't it be
>required of missiles to ensure their electronics don't get damaged
>until detonation?

The hulls designed in my post were built using VDS; I think an average VDS
armor value of 2 should be enough to protect against small micrometeor
hits, but I see no reason individual designers shouldn't increase the
armor.  The base AV won't provide any protection against lasers, and it
would be kind of hard to get any protection without decreasing the
missile's performance.
> 
>
>> II.  Missile Warheads
>> 
>> Nuclear Warheads
><snip>
>> same hex as the detonation itself.  At TL-15, the range can be extended
to
>> the six hexes adjacent to the detonation hex by doubling the volume and
>> mass of the warhead.  The number of hits is reduced to 1d6-3 and damage
is
>
>Does the number of hits reduction mean that a successful Gunnery roll
>can
>still result in no hits (not sure I like this, especially when using an
>expensive, effective nuke) or is a minimum of one hit assumed?

The hit reduction only applies to hits outside the det hex.  I think I may
have meant 1d3 hits instead of 1d6.
>
>
>> High Explosive Warheads
>> 
>> requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
>> kilometers, and require a short-range fuzing laser to arm the warhead
for
>> detonation.  Maneuvering the missile into prime detonation range is a
>> Formidable Gunnery task, modified by the following DMs:
>>      DM -2 per MP spent by defending ship on evasion
>>      DM -1 per 1/2 light-second (5 hexes) of range between each ship
>>      DM +1 per MP spent by gunner in missile maneuvering
>> Outstanding results cause 1d3 additional hits to the target.  If more
than
>> one ship is in the target hex, the gunner must choose one to attack.
>> 
>> Mass = 2500 kg (2.5 tons)
>> Volume = 0.5 kiloliters
>> Type = HE Proximity Fuzed Prefragmented
>> Damage = Contact: 9  Distance: 1
>>          Blast Radius = 4000km
>
>Why have a fusing laser? Why not have the missile arm automatically soon
>after being launched or as part of the launching procedure? Per FF&S,
>each
>missile turret contains its own target guidance laser. Also, the text
>lists a blast radius of 4 km but the stats after the text list a blast
>radius of 4000 km.

Sorry about that; I wrote the system over several days and forgot to clean
up the typos.  The FF&S blast radius of a 2500kg warhead is 4000 meters,
not 4000 kilometers.

The fuzing laser is required on HE missiles for terminal guidance, to give
it the extra precision required on such systems.  That's also where the
guidance computer bonus comes in; a smarter missile gives the gunner an
edge in maneuvering the missile to its optimum detonation distance.  Nukes
don't need it; all you have to do is get the missile into the same hex and
then set it off.
>
>
>> III.  Missile Propulsion
>> 
>>   Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10
and
>> Thrusters at TL-12.  HEPlaR requires fuel and has a limited endurance,
but
>> the engines are inexpensive and take up little space.  Thrusters are
often
>> used in military missiles and have longer range, but are much more
>> expensive.  All values listed below are from Starships.
>> 
>> TL  Type       Thrust    Mass  Volume  Area  Power  MCr    FC
>> 10  HEPlaR     100 tons  0.5   0.5     1.0   5.0    0.005  1.25 kl/hour
>> LHyd
>> 12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant
fuel
>
>Hmmm...I'd personally want any missile I fire to be able to maneuver
>regardless of the distance from a gravity well. Thrusters degrade
>rapidly
>in the outer reaches of some star systems. They would be stealthier
>than HEPlaR, as you stated elsewhere, but only if the target doesn't
>have
>gravitic sensors.

I agree.  Thrusters are too expensive and too space-limited to be
effective.  But, I included them for completeness.  
>
>
>>   Gravitic sensors can be installed if the missile is intended to be
used
>> as a semi- intelligent space mine.  The missile can loiter at the edge
of a
>> mined system operating on minimal power, only becoming active when a
>> Thruster-equipped ship is detected by the missile's sensors.
>
>Combine a PEMS array with the gravitic sensor and the missile becomes
>much
>more flexible with a wider possible range of targets.
>
>All in all, I really like the direction your post is going. Enough
>detail to
>satisfy the gearhead in me and fast-moving for my referee side. Can't
>wait
>to see the rest!
>

Thanks for your comments!  I'll be posting the first designs in a few days.



Jeff Kazmierski
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 12:59:53 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller, ship tactics, any ideas??

JayStr <jaystr@best.com> wrote:
> deep interdiction raids on his factories and commerce. Why dink around
> breaking milk bottles in ersatz fleet actions when you can kill the cow?

It's worth noting that the Imperial Navy did indeed have a requirement for
just such a ship.  They classed them as Fleet Intruders (or "FlInt Boat";
and they generally had superior jump performance and unspectacular maneuver;
otherwise the ships generally resembled heavy cruisers.

Perhaps the most famous of the Fleet Intruders were the Azhanti High
Lightning class.  Although they were few in number, as the recipients of the
most bizarre naming scheme to come out of BuShips they were memorable, and
their exploits in the Solomani Rim War and the Frontier Wars have been the
subject of numerous books and popular movies ever since).

These ships were constructed at TL-14, and had J-5 performance and 2G
maneuver drives.  In the Fleet Intruder role, they were armed with a large
spinal gun, bay missiles, and turret lasers.  The ship also embarked two
squadrons of heavy fighters, in a 60,000-ton hull.  Full deckplans of the
ship were printed twice; once as part of the Azhanti High Lightning
boardgame, and once as part of a MT folio adventure, _Arrival Vengeance_.

The general idea was to mount hit-and-run raids on the enemy's rear
in an attempt to suprise lightly-escorted or unescorted civilian
ships or Naval auxiliaries in locations where there were few or no system
defenses.  Many Fleet Intruders came to sad ends when they were forced into
engagements with heavy SDBs or were trapped in situations where they didn't
have enough fuel to jump to safety; ideal operations would provide enough
fuel for insertion, with sufficient reserve so that the ship could jump to
a refueling point if system defenses were too strong.

The effectiveness of the FlInt Boat is arguable (and a good number of ships
operating in this rule were eventually lost), but the knowledge that enemy
Fleet Intruders are operating forces convoys to include large escorts (heavy
cruisers or battlecruisers) whenever they are operating in an area that
doesn't have heavy system defenses.  If nothing else, this draws a number of
capitol ships from offensive missions to defensive escort duty.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:28:53 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: What do we want to see in JTAS26?

At 02:56 PM 2/4/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Seeing the recent slagging of 'The Silver Moon Incident' got me thinking 
>about what I'd like to see in JTAS 26, when 'ere it arrives.

JTAS should go back to similar content to the original JTAS's.  That is:
 
     Contact: 
     Ship's Locker:
     From the Management:
     Just Detected:
     Beastiary:
     Casual Encounter:
     Traveller News Service:
     Feature Articles:
     Amber Zones:     
>
>Firstly I'd like to see at least two Milleau 0 articles

Under the old JTAS format, there were typically four Feature Articles, and
two Amber Zones (varied from issue to issue).  JTAS(new) could devote two
articles to Mileau 0, and rotate two others thorough the other areas.  The
nice thing about past JTAS articles, in particular Amber Zones is they were
not highly tied to dates and times.  The two Amber Zone's could be split
with one for Mileau 0, and one rotating through the other eras.
>
>A ship plan would be nice, as would a new or old  minor human or alien 
>race - maybe a report on the Vargr.

Contact: was always one of my favorite columns.  Ships Locker could be
expanded to include deck plans for a new ship in each issue as well as
other equipment.  (We have to justify that 8x11 format).

>The TNS would be vital, though possibly under a 'new' name.

TNS should be split between Mileu 0 and other eras as well.  I think
keeping it the Traveller News Service is essential.  Changing it in TNE was
a bad thing (IMO).  There are four years of time missing between 1112 and
1116 that could (should) be covered.

>One large and two-to three small adventures would be ideal, the large one 
>would have to be pretty innovative, and really get the players into 
>Milleau 0.

Typically the Amber Zone's were the small adventures, and you could devote
one of the major articles to be a big adventure.

>Apart from that, a personality or a list of new equipment wouldn't be bad.

Casual Encounter and Ship's Locker fit these bills.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 04 Feb 97 13:39:34 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: Terran History(was Sumer....)

Theres a few intersting books on the subject (if no-one has already beaten me
here..;->). Zecharia Sitchin has his series on his view of ancient human
history wherein the commonality between many of the polytheistic religions is
explained by a common set of visiting ETs(gods) having set up shop, genetically
and culturally 'uplifted' humanity, variously quibbled amongst each other, etc
etc. He may be as crazy  as a bug but it _IS_ interesting reading.

Also, Neil Freer has a book out called Breaking The Godspell. Similar take,
bases much of his theories on the 'archeology' of Sitchin. 

Of course, twas my firsy thought to incorporate this in any number of RPGs, so
have at it...;->

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:32:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ship's Tactics - Any Ideas?

> Attacking an enemy's LOC has been successfully used throughout history.

True, but only in conjuction with major ground combat forces, not by
themselves

> Hannibal

His side lost

> Moresby Raiders, Wolfpacks

Ditto

> French Resistance, Desert Rats,

Victory here was due to line combat forces, not these elements

> VietCong

South Vietnam was conquered using a full scale mechanized invasion that
made use of more tanks than Hitler had when he invaded France.  

>Desert Storm 

Ditto, only more so.

> are all example of the successful employment of attacks against the
> enemy lines of communications. 

True, but the arguement here, it seems to me, is whether one's entire army
should be made up of forces designed for this strategy.  The examples
cited above clearly do not support that more narrow contention.  Attacking
enemy communications and resources are good, but that's not the way to
victory.

> The Yugoslav Resistance Fighters tied down 10 German
> divisions during the war.

A more correct statement is that the Russian Army tied down so many German
troops that defeat of the Yugoslavs was not possible.  Yugoslavia was
liberated when the German field army was defeated by Allied efforts.

>  The wolfpacks and surface raiders tried up the
> majority of the American and British fleets during the Battle of the
> Atlantic.  Think of the ratio of tonnage for the battle.  The mere
> possibility of a surface raider sent fear through convoys.
					            ^^^^^^^
Please note that the losses caused by the German fleet came primarily
before the implementation of the convoy system - Allied naval commanders
managed to forget the lessons of WWI rather fast.  Escorted convoys had
far less to fear.  By the way, the Germans lost that particular war.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:11:23 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo

The following is missile/torpedo that was designed using VDS and article on
missiles by Bertil Jonell and Guy Garnett.

Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo

TL15 Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo		
Displacement:	0.5( USP6)	 
Volume:7		
Configuration: Cylinder Streamlined	
Dimensions: 4.8m Long x 1.4m High x 1.4m Wide (approximate)	
Structure Material: TL 15 Chain Polymer	
Chassis: 30g Rated	
Armor: 0.18cm TL15 Chain Polymer	
Armor Rating:		 
Facing	Slope	Armor Value
Front  None   4
Right  None   4
Left   None   4
Rear   None   4
Top           4
Bottom        4
Electromagnetic Shielding N
Stealth:  Y	
Aiframe Area 0		
Storage Banks: TL 15 Storage Banks 3Mw/Hr	
Propulsion: TL 15 Thruster Plates, 0.96Mw (128 tons thrust)	
Crew: None	
Options: TL 15 Maser Small Vehicle Comms Range far orbital	
         TL 15 Automated FC Computer Rating 1 Dedicated:Y Skill Level 8	
         TL 15 Auto Pilot Computer Rating 2 Dedicated:Y Skill Level 8	
Perfomance(loaded) acceleration after gravity 30G, top speed 90013m/turn	
(Driver only) acceleration after gravity 30G, top speed 90013m/turn	
Agility: -28DM to be hit
stealth: -3DM to be spotted by military sensors of Tl 15 or lower and TL 16
for                    Civilian sensors.
Black Hole-11: -2DM to be spotted by optical sensors.
Price: 1,234,171.98Cr
Mass: 4.27tons
Endurance: 1 hour at max speed, more at lesser speeds.
Payload options:one of the following
Kinetic Energy(KE), Kinetic Energy High Explosive(KE(HE)), Cannister, Self
Forging Fragmentation(SFF) and Proximate Nukes.
Damage is below
G-Turns   KE   KE(HE)   Canister  SFF
1         47   51       15        19
2         54   58       17        22
3         59   63       19        24
4         62   67       20        25
5         65   70       21        26
6         67   72       22        27
8         71   75       23        29
10        74   80       24        30
15        80   87       26        33
20        85   93       28        35
30        92   100      30        38

The damage/pentration for the KE and KE(HE) is well under what it should be
the original missiles in the article had a mass of .85tons. If Bertil or
Guy could send me the formula(e) hopefully in a lesser form of math I will
work it out.

Prox Nuke Warheads   
Yield in Ktns   Contact   Concussion
50              39        30
100             44        34
500             57        45
1000            63        51
2000            71        57
5000            83        65
10000           93        74
20000           106       83
50000           121       96
100000          135       108

All damages are in CSC/VDS armor values. By the way a penetration of 135 is
equal to 800 cm of Toughness 15 armor material.

Cannister and prox nukes can be used in the antimissile role as well.

Tactics: Missile is guided to target area at cruising speed of 4-6Gs and
upon aquiring target sprints at max speed of 30G's. It will use it Gunnery
skill of 8 to hit the target, and its Pilot skill of 8 to get there.

Bertil or Guy
Is that missile article posted somewhere? I got mine via email.











	

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:24:33 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: re: Missile Systems for T4

At 08:45 AM 2/4/97 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:
>
>As others have pointed out, there's no reason to streamline them. Also, we
>should have options for quarter-ton and one-ton missiles.
>And armoured missiles.
>

Well streamling will allow your missile to be more usable under a variety
of cercumstances. You also can have smaller missiles and even armored ones.

>>High Explosive Warheads
>>  HE warheads are used in missiles available for civilian use.  Using them
>>requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
>>kilometers
>
>The problem with these is that the target ship's own lasers can't possibly 
>miss the incoming missile at ranges of 4 km. (Or, in fact, out to about
>5000 km.) People have worked on design sketches for "BB" missiles with
>fragmentation warheads that detonate at ranges of a few thousand km - those
>are somewhat more practical (though still have trouble overcoming good point
>defences.) 
>

Well any well designed Point Defense Network will be hell for missiles to
get thru.

<snip>
>We should also allow EAPlaC propulsion; although it's somewhat miraculously
>good, it fits well with everyone's mental models of what a missile should
>be like (cheap, moderate delta-V, expendable.) To get good performance
>with EAPlaC (or even HEPlaR) you need to calculate delta-V 
>correctly.
>

Well will EAPlac allow the missile to get evasion DM's? Using Contragrav
and Thruster plates will let you do that.

>>12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant fuel
>Thrusters have a minimum volume of 10 m3 (from CSC, and generally agreed
>to by the beta-list.)
>

I take exception at the statement generally agreed, the reason for making
thruster plates to have a minimum size was to keep the planet killer
missiles/vehicles at from being rampant, but with a minimum size you just
get bigger planet killers. It has been shown on the GDW-Beta list that the
minimum size has no effect if a planet killer is designed, it just makes it
a bigger target to hit hopefully.

>>All electronic systems are added according to
>>values listed in the Central Supply Catalog.
>
>I would use the sensors from FFS, which are somewhat more realistic for
>starship weapons. Note that a FFS PEMS implicitly includes gravitic sensors,
>I think.
>

FFS sensors more realistic? Well tell us what a PEMS-10 resolution down to
in meters?

That is one item that needs to addressed in NAH, at what ranges can we read
the hull numbers off the target. We have been told that if you can
"resolve" it you can do that, but I believe that to be optimistic hand
waving. Take for example on the VLA at max range has resolution of one
Pixel that is x kilometers across, but the VLBA at max range has resolution
of one Pixel that is y kilometers across, x and y are not close to the same
size. But in FFS a range 10 sensors has the same resolution as a range 5
sensor ie they both can read the date on a large coin as an example. 

Also I believe that you are in error in stating that FFS PEMS inclued
gravitic sensors, densitometers are a separate sensor.

The one nice thing that the VDS sensor system is that you can detect and
track a target at max range but you generally do not have enough resolution
to use direct fire weapons on the target, example a TL 15 sensor say Lidar
with a range of far orbital 300,000km will be able to get a resolution of
15km, not good enough for a firing solution unless the target is really
huge. But you can engage the target with missiles and have chance of
hitting at that range. The VDS system restores missiles to the place that
they should be in long range attacks.

I will be following this message with missile/torpedo that I have designed
using VDS and all of its features.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
John Doe
jd@net.net
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all
likewise perish." Luke 13:3
 
Signature made w/ Unregistered ESig95-The Original E-Mail Signature Manager
Get your copy at: http://netnow.micron.net/~jjordan/dbs/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:27:34 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: A different take on jump drives

Anders Backman wrote:
 
> Very interesting suggestions. More heretics on the list please.

We aim to agitate! ;->

> One problem though; Is it possible to jump to the quite large grav source
> known as Andromeda galaxy despite its large range? 

If you were at tech 50+...maybe ;->   

In my system, the answer is no.  You can't jump directly to Andromeda,
nor can you jump from Core to the Galactic Core.  The limit is the
quality of the sensors available, and at levels of technology available
up to "Grandfather's" that limit is 6 parsecs.  [I may be a heretic, but
I'm not a nut! :->]
 
> One idea (not original I confess) I've been toying with is disallowing
> jumps to deepspace. One has to (in my campaign) travel out to 128 000 km x
> SQRT(m-planet) or 0.5 AU x SQRT(m-sol) in order to jump and your astrogator
> has to be able to hit the shell this radius creates at the target therefore
> making it easiest to jump to stars, then gasgiants and last planets. Maybe
> one shouldn't be able to do deepspace jumping at all.

I don't allow jumping to deepspace, period.  In fact, I don't allow
jumps to anything smaller than a brown drawf.  I use 200 stellar
diameters as the jump limit for jumping out (the Astrogator can push it
and try to jump a little nearer at big DM's), and a 200 stellar diameter
as the drop out limit when jumping in.
 
> This would make the mains more believable and also make great adventure
> hooks as the only way of crossing a 7 parsec rift is by sublight. Old
> spacemen tell stories about the great planet engulfing behemoths that live
> in interstellar space, untouched man in their tiny jumpships.

One reason I require jumps only be between stars is to force ships into
star systems as choke points. The location of chains of stars (the
mains) is an important piece of geography and should play a big role in
the game. A fleet, or even a single ship, can't skirt around systems
jumping through deep space.  Of course, I also allow the possibility  of
"dark bodies" in the rifts that allow ships to cross them, but finding
one is virtually impossible...like searching for the "northwest
passage."  

Another thing that I do is define the subsector maps as JUMP MAPS. The
maps don't correspond directly to real space coordinates, but to jump
space coordinates.  This is how I handle the "but space isn't flat"
argument of players. ;->  I have wavered on just how this works,
sometimes there isn't any real relationship between where stars are in
normal space and where they appear to be in jump space (from A to B is a
Jump 1, but they are 43.4 ly apart in real space, and from B to C is
also a Jump 1, but they are only 12 ly apart), sometimes I've pretended
that there is...just a loose relationship.  

I currently favor the no relationship model.  This way, simple
astronomical observations don't tell you anything about where you can
jump. You have to do your observations *inside* a jump field, and your
knowledge is limited to the range of your sensors...maybe only Jump 1
away in all directions.  Certainly, you might have maps, but the "jump
routes" slowly change over hundreds of years in unpredictible ways, so a
really old map is next to useless. Maps have to be updated regularly,
and exploration really does mean exploring the unknown.  It also means
some stars just aren't accessable at all...for unknown reasons, and
occasionally some at the edge of a jump level move *beyond* it and
become impossible to reach.  

Of course, before running a game you have to decide *how* you want to do
these things, and stick with it in that game. I write this kind of stuff
down, along with how the technology differs from the present day (and
the published material), and distribute it to the players as background
knowledge.  I also write up stuff that I *don't* tell them, and parcel
it out as they learn it. 

Deep Space Life

I've also thought about the possibilities of space cows, and whales and
the orcas that feed on them.  I've never actually used them in a
game...not yet anyway.   The deep space creatures would probably need to
*feed* near a star for energy, or would they haunt the Ooot belt eating
cometary bodies?  Maybe they only come into the warm to give birth? 
Could they use chemical reactions to produce enough energy to survive
out there? How could they have a fusion power source built into
themselves...could *that* evolve?  Can they jump?  Do they live mainly
*in* jump space?  Lot's of questions! Lot's of possibilities! 


Eris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:25:39 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: re: Missile Systems for T4

At 08:45 AM 2/4/97 -0800, bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:
>
>As others have pointed out, there's no reason to streamline them. Also, we
>should have options for quarter-ton and one-ton missiles.
>And armoured missiles.
>

Well streamling will allow your missile to be more usable under a variety
of cercumstances. You also can have smaller missiles and even armored ones.

>>High Explosive Warheads
>>  HE warheads are used in missiles available for civilian use.  Using them
>>requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
>>kilometers
>
>The problem with these is that the target ship's own lasers can't possibly 
>miss the incoming missile at ranges of 4 km. (Or, in fact, out to about
>5000 km.) People have worked on design sketches for "BB" missiles with
>fragmentation warheads that detonate at ranges of a few thousand km - those
>are somewhat more practical (though still have trouble overcoming good point
>defences.) 
>

Well any well designed Point Defense Network will be hell for missiles to
get thru.

<snip>
>We should also allow EAPlaC propulsion; although it's somewhat miraculously
>good, it fits well with everyone's mental models of what a missile should
>be like (cheap, moderate delta-V, expendable.) To get good performance
>with EAPlaC (or even HEPlaR) you need to calculate delta-V 
>correctly.
>

Well will EAPlac allow the missile to get evasion DM's? Using Contragrav
and Thruster plates will let you do that.

>>12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant fuel
>Thrusters have a minimum volume of 10 m3 (from CSC, and generally agreed
>to by the beta-list.)
>

I take exception at the statement generally agreed, the reason for making
thruster plates to have a minimum size was to keep the planet killer
missiles/vehicles at from being rampant, but with a minimum size you just
get bigger planet killers. It has been shown on the GDW-Beta list that the
minimum size has no effect if a planet killer is designed, it just makes it
a bigger target to hit hopefully.

>>All electronic systems are added according to
>>values listed in the Central Supply Catalog.
>
>I would use the sensors from FFS, which are somewhat more realistic for
>starship weapons. Note that a FFS PEMS implicitly includes gravitic sensors,
>I think.
>

FFS sensors more realistic? Well tell us what a PEMS-10 resolution down to
in meters?

That is one item that needs to addressed in NAH, at what ranges can we read
the hull numbers off the target. We have been told that if you can
"resolve" it you can do that, but I believe that to be optimistic hand
waving. Take for example on the VLA at max range has resolution of one
Pixel that is x kilometers across, but the VLBA at max range has resolution
of one Pixel that is y kilometers across, x and y are not close to the same
size. But in FFS a range 10 sensors has the same resolution as a range 5
sensor ie they both can read the date on a large coin as an example. 

Also I believe that you are in error in stating that FFS PEMS inclued
gravitic sensors, densitometers are a separate sensor.

The one nice thing that the VDS sensor system is that you can detect and
track a target at max range but you generally do not have enough resolution
to use direct fire weapons on the target, example a TL 15 sensor say Lidar
with a range of far orbital 300,000km will be able to get a resolution of
15km, not good enough for a firing solution unless the target is really
huge. But you can engage the target with missiles and have chance of
hitting at that range. The VDS system restores missiles to the place that
they should be in long range attacks.

I will be following this message with missile/torpedo that I have designed
using VDS and all of its features.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #915
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, February 4 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 916



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4 Missiles (kinda long)
Re: Missile Systems for T4
Problem Players
Re: A different take on jump drives
Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
re: Questions about solar system formation
Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
Armor Conversions For CSC/VDS(Long)
Re: TCS discount
Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo
Re: QSDS Discount
Re: MT Products
Re: STARSHIPS and the Starship Design Contest
Re: Traveller Auction: New Additions!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:32:54 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Missiles (kinda long)

At 08:27 AM 2/4/97 -0500, "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
 wrote:
<Snip>
>>Why "streamlined" if they're being used in the vacuum of space?
>
>I'd assumed that missiles would occasionally be used in atmospheric
>operations (orbital bombardment, etc), making streamlining desirable. 
>Also, streamlined hulls minimize the amount of "jaggy things" on the
>surface, making them easier to auto-load.  Seems to make sense to me;
>comments?

Good points, also will allow you to use the stealth features.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:29:55 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4

At 10:01 PM 2/2/97 -0500, "Jeff Kazmierski" <odysseus@novia.net>
 wrote:
>snip<                         
>III.  Missile Propulsion
>
>  Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10 and
>Thrusters at TL-12.  HEPlaR requires fuel and has a limited endurance, but
>the engines are inexpensive and take up little space.  Thrusters are often
>used in military missiles and have longer range, but are much more
>expensive.  All values listed below are from Starships.
>
>TL  Type       Thrust    Mass  Volume  Area  Power  MCr    FC
>10  HEPlaR     100 tons  0.5   0.5     1.0   5.0    0.005  1.25 kl/hour
>LHyd
>12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant fuel

The Table in CSC/VDS list Thruster plates as having a thrust of 40tons,
power of 1Mw, mass of 2tons, and a cost of .25MCr.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:49:15 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Problem Players

>1 second combat rounds are realistic but perhaps unplayable. GURPS has
>tried to alleviate this with rules for "lulls" and "exchanges" where
>combatants spend some time doing nothing between bouts of frantic action
>but those rules seems hard to use with "rules lawyer" players.

No rules are hard to use with "rules lawyers" players. When they start in
arguing about rules, just pick up your rulebook, slam it down HARD on the
table to get their attention and say in a loud voice:
        "I AM the rules!"

I've only had to do this once; no more rules lawyering :) And no one quit
either.
                Allen Shock

P.S. I've run GURPS for years. 1 second combat rounds are not unplayable.
They work like any other combat round in any other game. I think Traveller's
3 second rounds are probably a little better though.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:42:13 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: A different take on jump drives

anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman) wrote:


>Maybe one shouldn't be able to do deepspace jumping at all.
>This would make the mains more believable and also make great adventure
>hooks as the only way of crossing a 7 parsec rift is by sublight.

Unless you can find a dark mass.. CJ Cherryh's Downbelow Station sequence
of novels have some examples of this. I recommend wholeheartedly. It all
starts to head towards 2300AD stutterwarp...<g>

- -Dom Mooney-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:42:09 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es> wrote:
<snip>
But, at the beginning, the adventure speaks of
"transponders...". I was under the impression that transponders were
developed around 1100, after Dr.Rushorin research about the Cymbeline Chips.
<snip>

I think that the text in Survival Margin etc. refers to the self verifying
transponder series (that spawned Virus). It seems to imply that prior to
this, more "tamperable" transponders were used. As a result, these needed
changing on a more regular basis.

- -Dom Mooney-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:44:37 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Questions about solar system formation

cwebb@ctainforms.com (Christopher E. Webb) writes

>1)  What is the lower limit for the mass of a brown dwarf?  I've found mention
>of an upper limit on the 'net of .08 solar masses, but I didn't find a clear
>mention of a lower limit.

Damn good question - and one that there isn't a good answer to. In part it
depends on your definition of a "brown dwarf", and in particular how you
distinguish it from a large planet. My personal favourite definition is that
a brown dwarf forms like a star - collapsing out of its own little
chunk of a molecular cloud - while a planet forms like, well, a planet - 
accreting out of planetesimals in the protoplanetary disk surrounding a 
already-mostly-formed star.

Since theoreticians don't understand how well either stars or planets form
to predict their masses, that definition doesn't actually help much, 
unfortunately.

Observationally, Marcy et al have discovered ever-increasing numbers of 
jovian planets - while brown dwarfs remain extremely rare (except possibly
a bunch of somewhat questionable detections by Mayor et al) (and one or
two direct imaging detections, GD165B and GL229B.) The putative brown 
dwarfs seem to trail of at 10-20 jupiter masses (0.01 - 0.02 solar masses)...
so maybe that's the cutoff.

>2)  Are there any guidelines for the size of a world's satellites in relation
>to the world itself (such as: a moon of a solid planet should mass less than
>X% of its parent world, while the moon of a gas giant should mass less than Y%
>of its parent world)?

Certainly nothing solid - all you can really go on is what we see in
our solar system. It's probably hard to accrete a earthsized planet and then
get it to be a moon of a gas giant, but not impossible...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:29:52 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

Joseph E. Walsh wrote:
>
> >         Can't be; they missed Famille Spofulam, not to mention YugoShips PLC ;).
> 
> Right! :)  And all joking aside, I think there's plenty of room for more
> MegaCorps in the Traveller universe.  Think of the number of major,
> multinational corporations in our own world.  Known Space is huge;
> there's plenty of room.

"Sapce is big. Really BIG. You have any idea of just how mind-boggling
BIG it really is?..."

- --Hitchhiker's Guide, ca. 1980

or

"Space is full of stuff"

- --Dave Nilsen, 1993


> 
> Another aspect is that, over the history of the Third Imperium, several
> MegaCorps could have risen and fallen prior to the years in which we're
> used to playing.

Dammit, Joe, you just blew the cobwebs outta my brainbox once again!
Thanks!

A possible way to explain/justify things in M0 is by postulating a
period of megacorporate warfare in the last century of the Sylean
Federation era, with Cleon's Campaign being both an expression of
Imperial ambition AND a way to divert the megacorps from cutthroat
competition -- in the literal sense!

Well, there are also _regional_ megacorps -- business organizations with
megacorp-level influence in one domain/sector/subsector, but less in the
hinterlands.

Hmmm... I smell a GREAT idea for a T4 supplement and/or an extended JTAS
article: Megacorps of M0: Detailed writeup of a megacorp, specifying
such things as history, economic and astrographic spheres of influence,
operating style, assets, key personalities, ownership, etc.

This would also be a great Internet project, come to think of it. With
all the parallel-processing creativity and brainpower available on Da
List, it just might work as a collaborative project.


- -- 
- --Rich Ostorero		http://home.inreach.com/lordbasl/index.html
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:50:29 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Armor Conversions For CSC/VDS(Long)

The following is a list of armor materials from TNE converted to CSC/VDS
armor values.

To convert your own the formula is:
ROUND(POWER((XX/TNE_Hard_Steel_Toughness),0.33)*CSC_Hard_Steel_Toughness,0.5)
XX is the TNE armor value that you wish to convert.

The formula is similar to the one that Greg used to convert from TNE to
CSC/VDS, he sent me a message on how he arrived at the armor values in CSC.

Some of these materials were aquired via web pages, and FTP sites.
Unfortunatley I do not remember them all, but Dave Golden is one of the web
pages.

Notes:
Electropolymorphic Synthetics is dual armor value due the greater armor
value is only when a 1Mw per m3 is applied.
Monodium is a crude attempt to approx the gray metal of the Ancients.
Obscenieum is armor for when your PC's need a lesson, I use it as benchmark
for obscene values.

Description      	             TL   Tough   Mass     Cost
Heavy wood                        1     1       1       0.001
Iron                              3     3       8       0.0016
Soft Steel                        3     4       8       0.016
Hard Steel                        5     6       8       0.02
Fiber Laminate                    6     2       1       0.03
Fiberglass                        6     3       1       0.001
Light Alloy                       6     3       3       0.004
Aluminum Alloy                    6     5       2.7     0.0037
Hardened Steel                    6     6       7.8     0.0026
Titanium Alloy                    6     6       4.9     0.0102
Titanium                          6     7       8       0.01
Carbonfiber                       7     4       1       0.002
Glass Composite                   7     4       1.9     0.0099
Improved Aluminum Alloy           7     5       2.6     0.0042
Metallic Laminate                 7     5       3.6     0.0042
Light composite                   7     6       7       0.07
Super Steel Alloy                 7     6       7.8     0.0052
Advanced Titanium Alloy           7     7       4.7     0.0111
Carbonfiber Compound              8     4       1       0.003
Composite Laminate                8     7       7       0.08
Graphite Composite                8     8       2.1     0.0595
Metalic Laminate Armor            8     9       11.1    0.0122
Advanced Carbonfiber              9     5       1       0.004
Aluminum Lithium Alloy            9     5       2.4     0.0046
Advance Metallic Laminate         9     6       4       0.0056
Metal Matrix Composite            9     6       2.6     0.0154
Ceramic Laminated Composite(CLC)  9     7       1.8     0.0500
Advanced Composites               9     9       9       0.009
Boron Composite                   9     9       2       0.0875
Aluminum Lithium Foam            10     5       1.92    0.0049
Armourplast                      10     5       1       0.006
Ceramic Matrix Composite         10     5       1.3     0.0240
Foam Steel Alloy                 10     6       6.24    0.0034
Titanium Alloy Foam              10     6       3.995   0.0117
Synthetics                       10     7       1.4     0.0804
Improved CLC                     10     8       1.75    0.0729
Crystaliron                      10     9       10      0.09
Composite Matrix Armor           10    10       9.54    0.0252
Structurecomp                    11     3       1       0.04
Maxiplast                        11     5       0.9     0.009
Metal Ceramic Alloy              11     7       2.22    0.0195
Reinforced Foam Aluminum Alloy   11     7       2.08    0.0249
Improved Synthetics              11     8       1.5     0.1125
Reinforced Foam Steel Alloy      11     8       5.968   0.0109
Reinforced Foam Titanium Alloy   11     8       3.9495  0.0342
Durallium                        11    10       12      0.012
Improved Structural Synthetics   12     6       1.2     0.0213
Myomer                           12     6       0.8     0.01
Improved Metal Ceramic Alloy     12     9       2.997   0.0311
Synthetic Armor                  12    10       2       0.1477
Metal Ceramic Armor              12    11       6.4625  0.0406
Superdense                       12    11       15      0.014
Improved Structurecomp           13     4       1       0.05
Advanced myomer                  13     6       0.7     0.012
Metal Ceramic Alloy              13     6       2.725   0.0092
Advanced Superdense              13    13       15      0.021
Electropolymorphic Synthetics    13    8/16     1.5     0.3188
Polymer                          14     7       0.6     0.014
Bonded Superdense                14    14       15      0.028
Advanced Structurecomp           15     6       1       0.06
Chain Polymer                    15     7       0.55    0.016
Square Bonded Superdense         15    15       15      0.031
Long Chain Polymer               16     7       0.5     0.018
Collapsed Crytalline             16    13       13      0.022
Cube Bonded Superdense           16    16       15      0.033
Monomolecule                     17     8       0.4     0.021
Coherent Superdense              17    16       15      0.035
Enhanced Coherent Superdense     18    17       15      0.052
Exotic Alloy I                   18    19       13      0.1
Exotic Alloy II                  22    22       10      0.25
Monodium                         30    47       1       N/A
Obscenieum                       40   100       0.1     N/A

Thats it for now.

Let me know what you think.
"Putting On Obscenieum Armor for flame protection"

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent be
fore hand. The use of the contents may be posted on web pages that do not
charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:53:56 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: TCS discount

Steven Hudson writes:
> Wasn't Trillion Cr series discount 20%?

Yes, you're right. It's a 40% reduction in construction time, but only a 20%
reduction in price. But IIRC _High Guard_ gives a 40% discount.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:58:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

Joseph E. Walsh writes:
>...all joking aside, I think there's plenty of room for more 
>MegaCorps in the Traveller universe.  Think of the number of major, 
>multinational corporations in our own world.  Known Space is huge; 
>there's plenty of room.
> 
>Another aspect is that, over the history of the Third Imperium, several 
>MegaCorps could have risen and fallen prior to the years in which we're 
>used to playing.  

Besides, in Year 0 any mere sector-wide corporation would also be Imperium-
wide ;-).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:20:45 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo

The following is missile/torpedo that was designed using VDS and article on
missiles by Bertil Jonell and Guy Garnett.

Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo

TL15 Nightmare Class Missile/Torpedo		
Displacement:	0.5( USP6)	 
Volume:7		
Configuration: Cylinder Streamlined	
Dimensions: 4.8m Long x 1.4m High x 1.4m Wide (approximate)	
Structure Material: TL 15 Chain Polymer	
Chassis: 30g Rated	
Armor: 0.18cm TL15 Chain Polymer	
Armor Rating:		 
Facing	Slope	Armor Value
Front  None   4
Right  None   4
Left   None   4
Rear   None   4
Top           4
Bottom        4
Electromagnetic Shielding N
Stealth:  Y	
Aiframe Area 0		
Storage Banks: TL 15 Storage Banks 3Mw/Hr	
Propulsion: TL 15 Thruster Plates, 0.96Mw (128 tons thrust)	
Crew: None	
Options: TL 15 Maser Small Vehicle Comms Range far orbital	
         TL 15 Automated FC Computer Rating 1 Dedicated:Y Skill Level 8	
         TL 15 Auto Pilot Computer Rating 2 Dedicated:Y Skill Level 8	
Perfomance(loaded) acceleration after gravity 30G, top speed 90013m/turn	
(Driver only) acceleration after gravity 30G, top speed 90013m/turn	
Agility: -28DM to be hit
stealth: -3DM to be spotted by military sensors of Tl 15 or lower and TL 16
for                    Civilian sensors.
Black Hole-11: -2DM to be spotted by optical sensors.
Price: 1,234,171.98Cr
Mass: 4.27tons
Endurance: 1 hour at max speed, more at lesser speeds.
Payload options:one of the following
Kinetic Energy(KE), Kinetic Energy High Explosive(KE(HE)), Cannister, Self
Forging Fragmentation(SFF) and Proximate Nukes.
Damage is below
G-Turns   KE   KE(HE)   Canister  SFF
1         47   51       15        19
2         54   58       17        22
3         59   63       19        24
4         62   67       20        25
5         65   70       21        26
6         67   72       22        27
8         71   75       23        29
10        74   80       24        30
15        80   87       26        33
20        85   93       28        35
30        92   100      30        38

The damage/pentration for the KE and KE(HE) is well under what it should be
the original missiles in the article had a mass of .85tons. If Bertil or
Guy could send me the formula(e) hopefully in a lesser form of math I will
work it out.

Prox Nuke Warheads   
Yield in Ktns   Contact   Concussion
50              39        30
100             44        34
500             57        45
1000            63        51
2000            71        57
5000            83        65
10000           93        74
20000           106       83
50000           121       96
100000          135       108

All damages are in CSC/VDS armor values. By the way a penetration of 135 is
equal to 800 cm of Toughness 15 armor material.

Cannister and prox nukes can be used in the antimissile role as well.

Tactics: Missile is guided to target area at cruising speed of 4-6Gs and
upon aquiring target sprints at max speed of 30G's. It will use it Gunnery
skill of 8 to hit the target, and its Pilot skill of 8 to get there.

Bertil or Guy
Is that missile article posted somewhere? I got mine via email.











	

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:20:06 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: QSDS Discount

I would prefer to see QSDS give the full price for each item 
available.

If the prices given in the QSDS are already "discounted" they aren't
really discounted prices. They're actual prices.

It's like going to one of those stores where everything in the place 
has a sale price on it every day of the week, every day of the year.

I'd prefer to have "full" price available directly, so that it's
easier to figure repair costs and the like. (Designing ships is but
one use for the system. Things occasionally break, don't they? ;-)

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:54:15 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: MT Products

On Fri, 31 Jan 1997, David Smart wrote:

> sturm wrote:
> > 
> > I was reading my copy of COACC last night and saw 2 products
> > advertised in the back, Flashback (an adventure) and Robots
> > (Supplement).  Does anyone know if these products were every released?
> 
> Supplement 8 - Robots was actually published. I've never heard
> of the Flashback adventure, though.
> 
*Book* 8 was a classic traveller product.  Probably not something they'd
be advertising in COACC - a Megatraveller sourcebook (and a good one!).

I actually went to look at my copy when I saw this to confirm - looks like
something that never left the drawing board to me.  COACC was 1989, T:TNE
basic book was 1993 - seems like enough time to get a robot book out
(especially f much of it is cribbed from the CT book) probably too many
others got in the way before Megatraveller's end.

I cc'd this to Loren Wiseman, maybe he'll be able to tell us (maybe
there's millions of copies unreleased in asecret warehouse...next to area 
51:)

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:09:34 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: STARSHIPS and the Starship Design Contest

Don McKinney wrote:

>
>It struck me when reviewing the post on the contest winners that here's
>something I've always wanted.  Allow me to explain:
>
>Traveller has always had numerous ships, but they all did different things -
>I've wanted a number of designs which did the same thing, with minor or
>significant differences due to the design methodology.  Also, STARSHIPS
>sucked...
>
>So, I'd like to propose that we, the TML, take the standard CT/MT ship
>designs, starting with the old 100-ton Scout, develop a "specification"
>for that design, and run a contest for that "specification".  The winning
>design, and the others, represent everything from the standard Scout
>procurement, to what they would buy in a pinch...
>
>And with the Free Trader design, well, there really should be some
>significant differences between the way General Starships and Ling Standard
>build their craft, while matching the same "specification".
>
>Also, with the merchant ships, the new "specification" should match the
>efficiencies of the trade/merchant system, and not necessarily the old
>ship (although if they agree closely, that would be great).
>
>And - we get 6 to 8 good scout designs...
>
>I loved the contest - just wish I could understand QSDS enough to do this...



        Excellent idea!  I whole heartedly concur, would be heavily into
it, and even if Wildstar would not be into it, would propose the following
if Wildstar and IG don't want to do it: a TML-run contest, with the judging
being done by the entrants.

        Somebody (let's call him the judge) would volunteer to coordinate a
contest (winner would recieve cookies, biscuits, huzzahs, and threats of
lawsuits from Famille Spofulam; the admiration of his or her peers,
basically).  Procedure would be one classic ship class per contest; the
ship class in question would be chosen by vote of those who intend to
submit designs.  A mission statement would be developped by TML'ers (or
handed down from above by the powers that be; you know who you are) to
establish criteria for judging.  Submissions would be mailed to the judge.
Judging would be by those who submitted ships; the judge would collate the
entries into one document, and mail a copy out to each entrant.  Each
entrant would rank all the ships (save his own!) ordinally (i.e. first,
second, third, etc), giving comments where they found something
particularly cool or unbelieveably boneheaded, and mail the judge the
results of their ranking; the judge would average the numbers, anonymize
the comments and declare a winner, posting the results plus each design and
the comments on it.

        We could call it the TML Highly Unofficial & Democratic Design
Derby (THUDDD for short) or something.  I'd be willing to handle the first
one.  The procedure I'd proposed to follow would be as follows:

Day 1: Declare TUDD open; invite votes on ship class.

Day 7 (or sooner, as the case may be): Tally votes.  Open debate on precise
mission requirements, if need be (for a 200 td free trader, for example,
this is a no-brainer and this step could be skipped).

Day 14: Close debate on mission requirements, tabulate them, and post them,
declaring the TUDD open.

Day 28: Collate all entries, and mail a copy to each entrant.

Day 35 (Or earlier if all entrants return their ranking and comments
sooner): add up rankings, declare winner, post designs (anonymously if the
entrants so desire) plus anonymized comments.  TML'ers applaud the winner,
and somebody else takes over the job.

        So... what do people think?  I think that the end result would be a
whole bunch of useful designs for us and a more developed and varied
universe for us to play in...  we might even want to think about JTAS
submissions or something.  And, the entire thing is democratic; the judge
just handles the mechanics, and the actual judging is done by the entrants
(in fact, if other TML'ers wanted to join in they judging, I don't see why
they couldn't).


        Just one thing though: everyone ought to specify hull configuration
in the USD; it's easier to visualize that way.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:36:54 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction: New Additions!

 
Many new items added since the last update - take a look :)

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

*new addition*
"Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 1 - Characters and Combat" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 2 - Starships" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 3 - Worlds and Adventures" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Book 4 - Mercenary" (GDW)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 52. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium" (GDW)
 Circa: 1979. Pages: 43. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Tarsus - World Beyond the Frontier" (GDW)
 Circa: 1983. Condition: Excellent. (Boxed Module)
 Bid:

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $12.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $7.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Fleet Escort Lisiani)
 Bid: $5.00  beck@mail.all-mail.net

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #26" (GDW)
 Circa:1986. Pages:48. Condition:Good.(Article:Cargo-Merchant Prince Variant)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #27" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. ( **Droyne/Grandfather Issue** )
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #28" (GDW)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Across the Imperium)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #29" (GDW)
 Circa:1987. Pages:48. Condition:Good. (**Traveller Tenth Anniversary Issue**)
 Bid:


MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #56" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition. (**Hard Times Issue**)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #57" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition: Good. (Article: Shellgame)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #64" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 88. Condition: Good. (**Fall of the Imperium Issue**)
 Bid:

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net


TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

*new addition*
"Traveller Chronicle Magazine #10" (Knight)
 Circa:1996. Pages:56. Condition:Excellent. (**Children of Earth - part #1**)
 Bid:

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

*new addition*
"Not in Our Stars" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 222. Condition: Excellent. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid:

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $7.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Voyage of the Planetslayer" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 302. Condition: Fine. (Travller Inspired Novel - 2 of 3)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Revolt and Rebirth" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 329. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel - 3 of 3)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Voyages SF Magazine #15" (King)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 34. Condition: Fine. (Article: "Recruiting for Paradise")
 Bid:

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $5.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Sea of Death" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 394. Condition: Fine. (Novel)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Night Arrant" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pahes: 398. Condition: Fine. (Novel - Autographed by Gary)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Come Endless Darkness" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 379. Condition: Good. (Novel)
 Bid:
- -----

That's it for the present. I will post updates every day or so.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #916
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, February 5 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 917



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

..
Minimum thruster volume
The weapon shop is open!
Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: Questions about solar system formation
Society for the Preservation of the Dreadnought
[Traveller Anser] Design System Changes
To serve man
FSY Lalemant-class Exploration Vessel
Re: QSDS Discount
re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: TNE best SFRPG?
RE: (2) Missile Systems for T4
Re: OFFICIAL SSDS/QSDS/FFS/NAH QUESTION
TSR's Collapse???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:00:28 -0800
From: Tom Lane <trlane@texas.net>
Subject: ..

unsubscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 20:04:22 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Minimum thruster volume

On 02/04/97 at 02:29 PM,  "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> said:

> >12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant
> fuel

> The Table in CSC/VDS list Thruster plates as having a thrust of 40tons,
> power of 1Mw, mass of 2tons, and a cost of .25MCr.

Ah, the power of a selective quote. <g>

Refering to the table on page 64 of CDC, Thurster Plates also have a
minimum volume of 10m3 and a minimum thrust of 400t.  "While the minimum
volume is a solid lower boundary, the thrust can be manipulated to lower
levels..."

I think you're going to have to up your missile size if you want to use
thruster plates *and* stay official.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:12:34 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: The weapon shop is open!

I've finally gotten around to putting up weapon page.  most of the stuff
comes from More Guns!, but more is coming.

Comments welcome, this is the first page I did entirely on my own.

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/guns.html


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:10:26 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

At 11:29 AM 2/4/97 -0800, Rich Ostorero wrote:
>Joseph E. Walsh wrote:

>> >         Can't be; they missed Famille Spofulam, not to mention
YugoShips PLC ;).
>> 
>> Right! :)  And all joking aside, I think there's plenty of room for more
>> MegaCorps in the Traveller universe.  Think of the number of major,
>> multinational corporations in our own world.  Known Space is huge;
>> there's plenty of room.
>
>"Sapce is big. Really BIG. You have any idea of just how mind-boggling
>BIG it really is?..."

"Big enough for me to get lost in if that punk Zhunastu kid gets too big for
his britches."     -Sir Arameth Gridlore, 012, Year 0

>"Space is full of stuff"
>
>--Dave Nilsen, 1993

"and it's all for sale"  -Ibid

>Hmmm... I smell a GREAT idea for a T4 supplement and/or an extended JTAS
>article: Megacorps of M0: Detailed writeup of a megacorp, specifying
>such things as history, economic and astrographic spheres of influence,
>operating style, assets, key personalities, ownership, etc.
>
>This would also be a great Internet project, come to think of it. With
>all the parallel-processing creativity and brainpower available on Da
>List, it just might work as a collaborative project.

Considering the approach we all seem to have taken for our introduction of
ships, etc, we already have a good start.  Gridlore Technologies is based on
a character I started player back in 1978, and he's got a long history of
being a pain to Imperial offcials, he'd port well to M:0.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:29:43 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: re: Missile Systems for T4

At 07:41 PM 2/4/97 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
 wrote:
>On 02/04/97 at 02:25 PM,  "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> said:
>
>>>12+ Thrusters 100 tons 5.0 3.0  1.0  2.5  0.600  power plant fuel 
>
>> Thrusters have a minimum volume of 10 m3 (from CSC, and generally
>> agreed to by the beta-list.)
>
>> I take exception at the statement generally agreed, the reason for making
>> thruster plates to have a minimum size was to keep the planet killer
>> missiles/vehicles at from being rampant, but with a minimum size you just
>> get bigger planet killers. It has been shown on the GDW-Beta list that
>> the minimum size has no effect if a planet killer is designed, it just
>> makes it a bigger target to hit hopefully.
>
>Please, refer to the bottom of page 64 in CSC, "Minimum volumes are a solid
>lower limit..."  
>

I already know what that page says, but page 74 in FFS has no lower limit.
What I said above is why it was shoehorned into CSC/VDS, not that it was
"Canon" or "NonCanon". 

>I don't have a problem with folks using smaller thruster plates if they
>want to.  However, it looks like the offical line for thruster plates is a
>minimum volume of 10 cubic meters.
>

Is 10 cubic meters before or after I take all surfaces radically sloped and
reduce the volume and crossectional area down to 2 cubic meters? The hand
waving for the 10m3 as with all hand waving does not withstand analysis.

With a 10m3 missile no point defense will be able to stop it, but the main
batteries will. Any upgunned point defense to deal with it will no longer
be point defense which could have some interesting twists. 

If the 10m3 had "valid" reason behind it would be more acceptable, but that
lower limit shares many things with the TNE AI Virus and the Chatterbox
Circuit. All of them not very well though thru, more a "Knee Jerk" solution
to a perceived/exagerated issues/problems.

Sinbad Sam
AI Black Curtain Rod Holder
sinbad@dfw.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:52:14 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Questions about solar system formation

Christopher E. Webb wrote:
> 
> I've a couple of questions about the formation of solar systems that I came
> up with after downloading the source code for Accrete from the 3D
> starmap webpage (http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html).  I set about
> modifying the program so that it would generate the planets and moons after
> prompting for solar mass and luminosity, 

Would you be willing to make your version available to others?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:50:24 -0500
From: Joe Block <jpb@miamisci.org>
Subject: Society for the Preservation of the Dreadnought

I've been thinking about the recent posts regarding what made the
dreadnought a viable idea in Naval warfare, and have an idea that should
preserve dreadnoughts in the canon.

If we change the equations for Meson Guns & PAs so that the bigger the gun
gets, not only do they do more damage but range is increased, DNs ought to
become viable again.  If DNs can get off a few rounds of fire before the
battlecruisers get into their own firing range, they should be able to
cripple or kill enough of the cruisers to make it impractical to take
cruisers up against an equal (financially anyway) concentration of DNs.

Power consumption can be twiddled so that as range increases, power goes up
enough that you need a *big* fusion plant to power it.  Properly adjusted,
you won't be able to fit a DN scale PA or MG and the necessary power plant
in anything less than a 250Kton hull, larger if you want fun stuff like 6G
plants, defenses, etc.

Comments?


Joe Block <jpb@miamisci.org>

The most important service rendered by the press is that of educating
people to approach printed matter with distrust.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 22:59:14 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Anser] Design System Changes

Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com> asked:
> Dave, does this mean that the final actual changes to FFS have yet to be
> determined?

Right.  Dave and the rest of the GDW-Beta list are in the process of writing
the updates to FF&S (working title: Naval Architect's Handbook).  Until it
is completed, changes to the systems are possible.

Definite changes (used for SSDS and/or QSDS) include:
- - Power Plant (minimum size x10 for non "Fusion+" TLs.
- - T-Plates (cost reduced to 25% of FF&S, and now back in the canon).
- - Jump Drive (fuel now 10% of the hull volume per parsec, as in CT).
- - CG Lifters (now possible to produce lift and thrust, as in MT).
- - Lasers limited to a maximum energy of 50Mj*TL.
- - Nuclear Damper Screens (in SSDS).
- - New crewing levels (in QSDS and SSDS).

The crew calculations can also be different, depending on the level of
automation and computer support available.  The various options are detailed
in SSDS.

Also under consideration for revision are rules relating to weapon construction
including particle acellerator desigh, bay design, missile design, and
general revision of the entire work (adding descriptions and definitions,
cleaning up loopholes, and a general going-over).

> Now, however, I interpret your statement above about NAH that there will be
> additional changes made?

There will almost certainly be additional changes.

 If that is correct, what are they (if you know yet)?

We don't know yet.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:37:36 -0500
From: Joe Block <jpb@miamisci.org>
Subject: To serve man

Another two bits on the subject of Vilani cannibalism - Poul Anderson won a
Hugo for his story _The Sharing of Flesh_.

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S


F

O

L

L

O

W

!

This story has a very Milieu 0 feel to it.  Basically, an exploration team
goes to a low TL world after the Long Night and one of the members is
killed, butchered and eaten by the locals.  It turns out that due to a
genetic aberration, at puberty, male children need to eat the testosterone
rich flesh of an adult male (one male will suffice for 4 children) or they
won't become sexually mature.

Anderson's explanation is that in the early generations after the fall,
this mutation sprang up and the gene pool was so small that eventually
everyone carried it, and no one noticed because of the widespread
cannibalism caused due to lack of human consumable food.

To make a medium length story short, the high tech explorers eventually
figure out why their teammate was killed, and a solution (hormone
supplement pills).

I've butchered the story, but it's a nasty little trick to spring on some
players.


Joseph Block <jpb@miamisci.org>
Kin, n.:
        An affliction of the blood
PGP 2048bit-Fingerprint: F8 A2 A5 15 56 42 9B 16  3F BD 57 0F 8A ED E3 21

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:25:25 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: FSY Lalemant-class Exploration Vessel

News Item, Sylean Shipping News, Year 0 Day 35

"FSY announces modified ISS submission design for corporate market:

        Today, Hengabar Spofulam, head of FSY, announced the release of the
Lalemant-class Exploration Vessel.  Based on FSY's rejected Brebeuf-class
Recontact Scout BuShips proposal, the Lalemant features several
modifications to its initial design.  While based on the same 300td
airframe wedge hull, and similarly armed and armoured, the Lalemant's jump
range has been increased from jump-2 to jump-3, and the main maneuver drive
has been downrated from 3G to 2G.  The auxiliary 1G HEPlaR drive has been
removed altogether.  The Emergency Low Berth and sickbay have also been
removed.

        Stated Spofulam, "...these changes have permitted us to create a
vessel that has longer jump range, 17% more cargo capacity, vastly improved
accomodations, smaller crew, and identical sensors and armament, for a
price that is 10% less than our original ISS RFP design.  Any
resource-extraction or other corporation whose business requires the use of
exploration teams will doubtless find a Lalemant an invaluable tool that
will render them more competitive".  Our staff, while noting that one could
purchase 7.3 Type S Scouts for the price of a single Lalemant, state that
the longer jump range, larger crew and cargo capacity, on-board laboratory
facilities, superior sensor capabilities and greater endurance of the
Lalemant do indeed make it a far more capable exploration platform than the
inexpensive but minimalist Type S Scout.

        The accomodations on the Lalemant are reportedly more luxurious
than the orignial design; small staterooms are provided for the two
gunners, while all other crewmembers (one engineer, a sensors operator, a
pilot and astrogator, up to nine mission specialists, and a captain) rate
large staterooms, and an 84 cubic meter lounge is also provided (given the
limited, semi-custom production run expected, some of this space may be
convertible to cargo or laboratory space as needed).

        Our staff report that much of the reduction in price is due to the
removal of the 1G HEPlaR auxiliary drive and concomitantly oversized power
plant.  This design feature, while enabling some FSY designs to reach 9G
accelerations, is, according to our analysts, worthwhile only at the
high-performance end of the spectrum.  When used in lower-accelleration
vessels, the added expense and  power and volume requirements do not
justify their limited utility.

        Finally, the design staff at FSY have apparently been packed off en
masse for a 15-day "corporate team-building retreat"; it is rumoured that
higher management at Famille Spofulam are displeased at FSY's total
disregard for costs, and worry that this might impede their planned
expansion into the mass-market segment of the industry.  When contacted,
they refused to issue a comment, stating only that "the vicious allegation
that the retreat is being held at a prominent Sylean detoxification center
is base and groundless".


USP

Disp: 300Td (AF Wedge)        Vol: 4,200 m^3            Cost: 160.5 Mcr
Crew: 7                       Pass H/M: 9               Pass L: 0
Cargo: 39.7 Td                Controls: TL-12 hi auto   TL: 12

USD size 8                 03 Jump rating
00 Fire control            02G M-drive rating (T-plate)
H.laser: 2/1/0/0           2 power plant rating
                           105 Fuel rating/scoop/refine
                           01 Sandcaster rating (30 canisters
                           10A/4P/0J Sensor rating
                           08 Armour rating
                           02 Structure rating

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 23:31:21 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: QSDS Discount

"David Blustein" <dtb@nascrag.org> wrote:
> If the prices given in the QSDS are already "discounted" they aren't
> really discounted prices. They're actual prices.

Right. 
"Our Everyday Low Prices!  We Buy In Bulk and Pass the Savings To You!"

> I'd prefer to have "full" price available directly, so that it's
> easier to figure repair costs and the like.

Repair costs should be based on the discounted cost.  The rationale is that
these things are manufactured in such quantity that you get a price break on
them.  Presumably, they break in such large quantities that you also get a
price break on the repairs (rather like getting repair parts for your Ford
versus your DeLorean).


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: 4 Feb 97 21:22:39 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: re: Missile Systems for T4

	
>>(snippage)
>
>(1) This is really a topic for the gdw-beta list, because there's going to
be
>a *lot* of argument about the details (which is part of why no-one has 
>discussed it yet.) I'm sending this to both traveller-list and gdw-beta,
>but I would recommend future discussion go only in gdw-beta

I wondered.  Thank you; I'll hold off posting any derivations until the
gdw-beta discussion gets going.

>>I.  Missile Hulls
>>Streamlined Cylinder config, 0.5 dTons
>
>As others have pointed out, there's no reason to streamline them. Also, we
>should have options for quarter-ton and one-ton missiles.
>And armoured missiles.

Agreed.  I was merely trying to keep it in the "canon" (Grud, but I hate
that word) spirit of things.  As a matter of fact, a while ago I used FF&S
to build a set of 1-cubic meter EAPlaC missiles that had the same
performance as missiles of the same yield (10 and 20 kiloton).  It made for
a hellishly powerful fighter design.

>>High Explosive Warheads
>>  HE warheads are used in missiles available for civilian use.  Using
them
>>requires considerable gunnery skill.  They have a blast radius of only 4
>>kilometers
>
>The problem with these is that the target ship's own lasers can't possibly

>miss the incoming missile at ranges of 4 km. (Or, in fact, out to about
>5000 km.) People have worked on design sketches for "BB" missiles with
>fragmentation warheads that detonate at ranges of a few thousand km -
those
>are somewhat more practical (though still have trouble overcoming good
point
>defences.) 

And, as others have pointed out, 4000 meters is a pretty darn huge blast
radius even for nukes.  The numbers are straight out of FF&S; I hadn't
thought of the realism of it until now.  Maybe its the maximum saturation
distance for the thousands of scattered fragments...

>>Fuzing Lidars
>It's not clear why you need this - the main missile sensor will tell you
when
>to detonate.

True, unless the missile has no other sensors installed.  At low tech
levels, space limitations force a choice between "eyes" (sensors) and
"legs" (fuel tonnage).  The Fuzing Lidar is a way of putting some sort of
sensor on the thing without sacrificing range.  And civilian systems may
not necessarily have large, expensive military sensor systems installed.

>>  Two types of propulsion are available for missiles; HEPlaR at TL-10 and
>>Thrusters at TL-12
>
>We should also allow EAPlaC propulsion; although it's somewhat
miraculously
>good, it fits well with everyone's mental models of what a missile should
>be like (cheap, moderate delta-V, expendable.) To get good performance
>with EAPlaC (or even HEPlaR) you need to calculate delta-V 
>correctly.

Definitely.  When the T4 specs for EAPlaC are decided, I'm sure many of us
will rejoice.

>>12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plant
fuel
>Thrusters have a minimum volume of 10 m3 (from CSC, and generally agreed
>to by the beta-list.)

However, in SSDS they go all the way down to 100 tons of thrust, with NO
size limit.  Which version is valid, SSDS or VDS?  If VDS is valid, why the
contradiction?

>>All electronic systems are added according to
>>values listed in the Central Supply Catalog.
>
>I would use the sensors from FFS, which are somewhat more realistic for
>starship weapons. Note that a FFS PEMS implicitly includes gravitic
sensors,
>I think.

I agree with this as well.  However, I was trying to design a system that
/any/ player or GM can use, whether they are new to the game or are part of
the "old guard".  That meant using the most current material available,
wherever possible.

I'm not sure that the FFS PEMS has gravitic sensors, though.  Let's see...
page 52... "...uses large antenna arrays to detect any electromagnetic
emissions from a potential target, such as heat or radio waves,...".  Nope,
nothing about gravitics.



Jeff

- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 23:57:52 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: TNE best SFRPG?

Anders Backman writes:

>FF&S seems to be a system for designing military starships and TL 7-8
>MBT and then the guys went overboard and put everything else into it 
>as well without playtesting, realitychecking etc.

   I totally disagree.  Were there design sequences that could stand
improvement?  Of course, otherwise we wouldn't have seen all the
backtracking they did over plasma and fusion weapons.  But that was an
exception to the general rule.  If anything, people complained because
things were *too* realistic: laser weapons don't look like WW II naval
guns, manuever drives require reaction mass, hand held lasers that
wouldn't penetrate rigid armor, etc.  

>SDBs are supposed to lie in wait in the outer system to pounce from 
>behind like wolfpacks. With Heplars time taken to go from GGs to 
>mainworld is much longer than jumping there so SDBs need J-drives. I 
>like SDBs a lot but with TNE Heplars I'm afraid they're out.

   While classic Traveller mentions the Oort cloud as one possible
hiding place, remember a couple of things: first, just because Sol's
Oort cloud is so far out doesn't mean that the Oort clouds of other
stars are a similar distance away; second, there's nothing wrong with
designing SDBs with drop tanks so that they can cover longer distances
faster (particularly if they are intended to travel to the outer
system), or even prepositioning secret fuel depots to be used by SDBs in
case of invasion.

>Good point, Signal GK was the most TNE like thing put out for CT and 
>didn't seem to fit at all.

   Signal GK is a classic "Cold War" scenario, and I don't recall any
public outrage when it was released.

>My take on that is that you should design a RPG that you love to use 
>and play no matter what the market forces say. People go for quality no
>matter the setting and any lack of interest on part of the designer 
>will permeate to the customer.

   You cannot completely ignore market forces.  GDW largely did, and you
see were it got them.  As for quality over style, I think the members of
this list can name at least a couple of high quality games that didn't
make it but should have, and a couple of games that were full of style
but were of weak quality and made it big anyway.  Quality may keep
people around (which explains why we're still here), but style keeps
them coming in the door, and as long as the number coming in exceeds the
number leaving, you've got a successful game on your hands.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:14:43 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: RE: (2) Missile Systems for T4

At 05:50 pm 02/04/97 +0000, robert.brennan@isocor.ie said:
>>I would use the sensors from FFS, which are somewhat more realistic for
>>starship weapons. Note that a FFS PEMS implicitly includes gravitic sensors,
>>I think.
>
>I think that Greg's tables
>are a breath of fresh air after the overcomplicated sensor section in FFS.  

	You really thought VDS sensor section was SIMPLER than FF&S? I thought the
exact opposite from the early draft I saw. If I want to design a TL13.5
Mucosal Sensor, I'd much rather go to the Mucosal Sensor table and look it
up, instead of going to the "Generic Sensor" table, looking up some
factors, and then reading through a page or more of text to find more
specific factors to multiply everything by.

	OTOH, VDS did provide more detailed descriptions of the sensor
capabilities as far as resolution, etc.

	However, I also felt the limitations of fixed range bands were less than
ideal. For space combat, I'd really rather have the option to choose a
short range anywhere from 1 to however many hexes are available, based on
power and volume available, than be shoehorned into fixed range bands.

	'Course, I hate fixed range bands anyway.

- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:08:44 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL SSDS/QSDS/FFS/NAH QUESTION

At 08:12 am 02/04/97 -0600, Paul Walker said:

>Dave, does this mean that the final actual changes to FFS have yet to be
>determined?  I see the list above (PP, T-Plates, J-Fuel, and CG) and I think
>I remember these items being mentioned before.  Were these the only changed
>made to FFS to do SSDS and QSDS?
>
>Now, however, I interpret your statement above about NAH that there will be
>additional changes made?  If that is correct, what are they (if you know
>yet)?  Thanks for the help

	I don't know. I'm still waiting to find out exactly what involvement we'll
have with NAH, and how official it will be. However:

	- The original idea was that those changes were INTENDED to be the only
ones to be made to FF&S. FF&S2 was to be cleaned up & reorganized
version--any further changes had to be either absolutely critical, or in
areas that didn't impact QSDS/SSDS. We didn't want to build in
inconsistencies.

	- That idea was based on the assumption that later products would hew to
the party line given to us originally, which is why we so frantically tried
to get more detailed guidance. That didn't happen, and from the early draft
of the VDS I saw, there are some definite disconnects.

	- Given the disconnects between QSDS, SSDS and VDS, I think some more
changes _should_ be in the works. I really hate invalidating the original
stuff, but our efforts to avoid that seem to have come to naught.

	- What those changes will be I don't have a handle on yet.

- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:27:04 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: TSR's Collapse???

Hi, i read with interest the report of TSR's Financial problems, but took
it with a pinch of salt, until that is i went to my FLGS and the guy was
having a converstation with a recently EX salesman of TSR UK, who was
informing his retailer that he would no longer be visting him as he had
just been fired, when questioned about what was happening, the reply was
that the uk force had been trimmed down, only a few office staff and about
10 warehousemen are left, im now putting more creadence to the TSR
Trouble's, but when i phoned up to enquire if Euro Gencon would be going
ahead due to the trouble's i had heard about on the internet, all i got was
what troubles and yes Euro Gencon will definatly be going ahead 28-31 Aug
at Loughborough Uni, this is Thursday to Sunday, if my memory is correct 96
Gencon was Offically Wed to Sun, but if you turned up on tuesday that was
fine.

My worry is this. Is the supposed trouble's that TSR are having due to
internal squables/bad management or as i fear the rise of CCG's, I say this
as the Games club that i belong to used to be only RPG's and have between
40 and 70 people turn up, now it has a CCG night as well, the attendance
for RPG's has dropped to between 30-50 and CCG night is always above 60 and
has reached 100, if this trend keeps going and more people give up RPG's in
favour of CCG's then TSR will not be the only casualty. (i should point out
that between a quarter and half the rpgers also play CCG's).

Here endeth the gripe for today.


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #917
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, February 5 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 918



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [Traveller Anser] Design System Changes
Re: TSR's Collapse???
Ship Design Contest
BSDS 0.2
CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)
Re: QSDS Discount
THUDD Contest
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: [Traveller Anser] Design System Changes
Let's try this again..
Is there interest on Geonee posts?
Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)
re: Aging Saves
Re: Traveller Auction: Update #5
Ship Design Contest
High Guard and Striker Web Page
T4 HTML Format

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:28:47 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: [Traveller Anser] Design System Changes

Guy "wildstar" Garnett wrote:

[snip]
>
>Also under consideration for revision are rules relating to weapon construction
>including particle acellerator desigh, bay design, missile design, and
>general revision of the entire work (adding descriptions and definitions,
>cleaning up loopholes, and a general going-over).
[snip]

        Are the weapon design rules going to be tweaked?  I noted that it
seems that guns are made of pretty much the same stuff from TL 3 onward
(light reciever weights at least ought to have composite materials as an
option to lower weight and boost price once they come in at TL-7, and for
the rest of the weapon as well as improved ones become available), and the
bipod rules are pretty bowbed.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:24:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Led Mirage <lmirage@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: TSR's Collapse???

It IS true about TSR's financial troubles. As you may have heard, they've
had some lay offs before Christmas. As the rumours go, ome of those
people were fairly high placed as well (well, the list includes the
creative director, David Wise). 
While CCG contributes to the dimise of RPGs in general, much of the blame
must fall on the decisions those TSR people made. Remember that
Spelljammer tv show? Boardgames? VCR games? Etc.. The list goes on. Simply
put ADND is the only line in TSR's catalogue that makes money. They've
tried to expand their horizon, but have met only failure. I heard there
are actually people who play that dice game inthe States, but that's only
rumour. Here in Toronto, I've NEVER seen anyone play that game, even
though there are many CCG players. 
However, don't count them out yet. No matter how you look at it, they're
still the giant within the RPG industry. Their RPG products have gotten
much higher quality in the recent years. They are going to produce less
for even better quality in the coming year (although HOW they're going to
do that when they've fired some of their best people remains to be seen).
I've heard Mayfair Game have gone belly up. In the slim chance that some
of you don't know what Mayfair Games did, they've produced/import some of
the best board games. For example, the "Rail" games, Cosmic Encounter,
recently Settlers of Catan. They've also produced RPGs such as Chill and
Underground. 
I think there's something wrong with the gaming industry. While CCGs might
not be the sole contributor to ther downfall, the timing of the start of
the fall and the introduction of M:tG is perhaps more than just a
coincidence.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 02:30:55 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Ship Design Contest

The Phoenix Corporation takes great pleasure in announcing
its successful tender for IISS requirement MIL-TD/41. The
Phoenix Corporation would like to take the opportunity to
thank the IISS for the opportunity to submit a proposal and
is honoured by the acceptance of the P-200EX for the design
requirement. Phoenix notes the overall quality of its
competitors proposals, and feels it is a reminder of the
level of design competance within the new Imperium that so
many fine designs were submitted.

Phoenix expect to commence construction of a prototype within
30 days (tentatively to be named "Sitting Duck" for the noted
19th Century Native American leader [as translated from ancient
Anglic by Prof. Alana Shang of the University of Sylea]); and
preliminary contracts for the long lead items neccessary for
serial production are to be placed as soon as details are
finalised with IISS BuShips.

   Andrew steps out of character for a moment
As a comment on the level of complexity of the QSDS, before
attempting to design the P-200EX I had not even seen a copy
of the T4 rules (NZ seems to be about 6 months behind the rest
of the world). I downloaded the QSDS 1.4 from Wildstars web
site and had designed the P-200EX within an hour.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "At Phoenix, we strive for adequate"
      Captain Sir Jerami Djano IN (ret) CEO Phoenix Corporation
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:27:14 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: BSDS 0.2

Hi everyone!

After complaing about QSDS I set out to create a faster system based on
QSDS 1.4.  The current results of this are available at
		ftp://members.aol.com/Brannalbin/t4/bsds.zip 
(BSDS stands for Basic Ship Design System).  The file is a zipped Winword
6.0 archive (I'll be happy to provide it in other formats if someone could
point me to any decent converters).

Most of the simplifications currently consist of rounding numbers (the
only fractions left currently are prices and I'll get rid of them,
too).  In a few tables the power costs for the equipment wwere removed
because they were too minor.  The layout has also been changed somewhat
and all calculations concerning surface areas have been changed to Hull
Strongpoint references (at the rate of about 1 to 100).  All this is
IMHO still not enough to have a truly fast system but it's a point to
start from.  I'd really be interested in ideas and comments for further
improvements.

In the next days I'll tackle the prizes for the components involved and as
soon as I've got a little more time I'll also add a customized design
sheet (a sheet more usable than that ugly thing included in Starships).

The resulting ships are less efficient than those created with QSDS but
that was to be expected.  I'm not quite sure whether my simplifications of
numbers were too serious (being a newbie dies that to you) and therefor
would like some comments concerning this topic (not from the gearhead
point of view -- I know that it's too vague for you; please point out
other problems ;-).

Ciao,

				Thomas.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:41:04 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)

>My worry is this. Is the supposed trouble's that TSR are having due to
>internal squables/bad management or as i fear the rise of CCG's, I say this
>as the Games club that i belong to used to be only RPG's and have between
>40 and 70 people turn up, now it has a CCG night as well, the attendance
>for RPG's has dropped to between 30-50 and CCG night is always above 60 and
>has reached 100, if this trend keeps going and more people give up RPG's in
>favour of CCG's then TSR will not be the only casualty. (i should point out
>that between a quarter and half the rpgers also play CCG's).

First of all, TSR is definitley having troubles. They cancelled the Winter
Fantasy gaming con they always had here in the US due primarily to the fact
that they laid off so many of the people running the con from the RPGA that
they didn't have enough people to run it. TSR's problems seem to be due to
infighting and their inability to come up with any successful game other
than AD&D, plus a general downturn in the publishing end. I do not think
CCG's are involved; TSR has a CCG (Spellfire) and Dragon Dice, which I hear
is quite popular (and designed by GDW alumnus Lester Smith, who was also in
on the creation of T4).

Secondly, I think it is patently unfair to blame CCg's for the troubles of
the roleplaying game market. There is no question that from 1993-1995, CCG's
ate a large share of the gamer's money. I believe this was due to a number
of factors but chief among these were that they were the new thing, and
frankly there was nothing new and exciting in the RPG market.
White Wolf had pretty much exhausted the wave of enthusiasm for Vampire and
it's related games, and their arrogant attitude as displayed in their books
and magazines ticked off a lot of people. (Anyone remember "hey,
net-punks"?) Vampire was the last truly different RPG idea I remember. By
1996, however, the CCG market began to even out; one retailer I speak with
frequently said that other than Magic, Star Trek (all versions) and Star
Wars, most of his other CCG's fell to a trickle. This has had some effect on
the general gaming market, as distributors and retailers that OVER-invested
in CCG's paid the price for their overenthusiasm. Have RPG sales gone back
up since CCG's went down? I don't know. 

There's a new trend in RPG's; revival of classic games. Traveller, Chivalry
and Sorcery, Bushido. Villians and Vigilantes, and other games have returned
to the market, some in revised printings. There are some good new games out
there; FENG SHUI is one of the neatest games I've seen in some time, and
shows a trend away from complexity and dark angst.
Steve Jackson Games continues to support GURPS, FASA seems to be doing ok,
and R.Talsorian/Hero's new FUZION system shows promise. Don't cry for RPG's
yet. TSR's problems (which have probably been amplified somewhat by the
Internet Disinformation Superhighway) are of their own making. I do not
think they spell the end of RPG's. Scapegoating CCG's is an easy thing to do
(GDW did it frequently toward the end) but, in my opinion, is inaccurate.

                                        Allen Shock

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:29:29 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: Re: QSDS Discount

>Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:20:06 -0600
>From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
>Subject: Re: QSDS Discount
>
>I would prefer to see QSDS give the full price for each item 
>available.
>
>If the prices given in the QSDS are already "discounted" they aren't
>really discounted prices. They're actual prices.
>
>It's like going to one of those stores where everything in the place 
>has a sale price on it every day of the week, every day of the year.
>
>I'd prefer to have "full" price available directly, so that it's
>easier to figure repair costs and the like. (Designing ships is but
>one use for the system. Things occasionally break, don't they? ;-)


I think the idea behind the "discounted price" is like buying the stock 19.9
cu.ft. refrigerator rather than having a custom 20.3 cu.ft. one built.  The
items listed in QSDS are the most popular of the most popular and are
sitting on a shelf waiting to be installed, whereas the FFS unit is
non-standard and custom built.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:29:20 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: THUDD Contest

>Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:09:34 -0500
>From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
>Subject: Re: STARSHIPS and the Starship Design Contest
<<<...snippage...>>>
>        Excellent idea!  I whole heartedly concur, would be heavily into
>it, and even if Wildstar would not be into it, would propose the following
>if Wildstar and IG don't want to do it: a TML-run contest, with the judging
>being done by the entrants.
<<<...snippage...>>>
>        So... what do people think?  I think that the end result would be a
>whole bunch of useful designs for us and a more developed and varied
>universe for us to play in...  we might even want to think about JTAS
>submissions or something.  And, the entire thing is democratic; the judge
>just handles the mechanics, and the actual judging is done by the entrants
>(in fact, if other TML'ers wanted to join in they judging, I don't see why
>they couldn't).

I think this is a great idea.  I might even be convinced to help, I said
help, with th org.  I am dubious about getting messages with the judgements,
but I am interested in helping.

Roderick, eMail me and we can discuss it a bit.

>        Just one thing though: everyone ought to specify hull configuration
>in the USD; it's easier to visualize that way.

Definitely!!!


Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

In-Reply-To: <32F55406.1A63@siscom.net>

<< >I've heard BG could be coming back...

   Don't tease me like that...I know that an illustrated version (done
by Marvel?) has continued the story for years.  I also know that Richard
Hatch (aka Apollo) has been doing the convention circuit and shopping
the idea of a revival around Hollywood.  If you have heard anything
else, I'd love to know what information you have. >>

Nothing definite, just a rumour I read somewhere.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:24:49 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [Traveller Anser] Design System Changes

At 08:28 AM 2/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Guy "wildstar" Garnett wrote:

>>Also under consideration for revision are rules relating to weapon
construction
>>including particle acellerator desigh, bay design, missile design, and
>>general revision of the entire work (adding descriptions and definitions,
>>cleaning up loopholes, and a general going-over).
>[snip]
>
>        Are the weapon design rules going to be tweaked?  I noted that it
>seems that guns are made of pretty much the same stuff from TL 3 onward
>(light reciever weights at least ought to have composite materials as an
>option to lower weight and boost price once they come in at TL-7, and for
>the rest of the weapon as well as improved ones become available), and the
>bipod rules are pretty bowbed.

Pick up 3G3.. that seems to have become the standard for T4 weapon design.
It's what Greg Porter is using, anyway.

I get much more realistic results with 3G3 than I ever did with FF&S.. in
that my M-16 came out at about 15lbs!

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:26:47 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Let's try this again..

I've fixed the broken images on the WeaponShop and Pistol pages.  *Now* they
are ready for your dining and dancing pleasure...

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/guns.html

Comments still welcome.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:35:33 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Is there interest on Geonee posts?

        Given the past discussions about wasting bandwith, and given that I
have received no comment on the Geonee Pocket Empire, I would like to know
if the list as a collective has interest in seeing more Geonee posts. If I
receive a significant number of responses, I will continue ;-)
        Thanx
        Carlos.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:04:53 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)

> It does get my vote for the best SF series in history.  Second place to Star
> Cops.  Third to Dr. Who.

Well, I don't know if you are making a joke here or not, but BAB5 
really does get my vote for the best SF series in history, and I am a 
big Star Trek fan.  Heck, I grew up with Trek, but B5 is a pull no 
punches kind of show.  Any SF fan who gives it three or four shots 
will become hooked.

As for Dr. Who and Star Cops--this is where I thought you were 
joking.  I thought both of those were cheap space rip offs not even 
worth watching while you are working on your Traveller game.

If you are not joking, then to each his own.  I'm glad you like B5 
though.

See ya,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:45:27 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: re: Aging Saves

>david@techrefuge.com
didst quibble:
>I'm not sure I like this new rule...  It begins INT degradation much
>earlier than previously, and it makes ALL characters equally likely to age,
>rather than those with higher ability scores...  Hmmm.  If INT degradation
>is supposed to reflect senility et al, and it begins at age 35 along with
>weakening STR, DEX, and END...  Oh, that explains my predicament handily.
>;-)  But..

yes, it sure does mean that all are equally likely to age. I agree that Int
Saves should start about 60, though.

All aging using same saves for given age is similar to CT/MT, but the
fomulaic method is easier to remember than 8/7/8 34-52, 7/6/7.....

>RFC:  is the new rule more realistic than the TNE/House rule?

*I* don't think so... but I do think TNE is just as broken a MECHANIC. In
TNE, characters linger on until ridiculously old ages since it averages 7
terms to reduce a 1111xx-x-x character to one attribute at 0, where aging
crisis occurs. Lucky players can have a 1111xx-x-x character for 28 years?
I doubt it.

I like the idea of aging saves NOT being tied to attributes (Heck, I played
CT all through puberty...), even though the results I see in T4 are too
steep a grade for my tastes. That is why I don't think T4's are more
realistic.

BTW, in MegaTraveller, Solomani have a different aging save table than
normal; it is one point easier across the board. Vilani use standard to 5
points easier. Chew on that...

Question for the answer team: how will vilani and solomani aging
differences be applied in T4?





William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:07:10 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction: Update #5

 
Many new items added since the last update - take a look :)

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

*new addition*
"Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Book 1 - Characters and Combat" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 2 - Starships" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 3 - Worlds and Adventures" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Book 4 - Mercenary" (GDW)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 52. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium" (GDW)
 Circa: 1979. Pages: 43. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca

*new addition*
"Tarsus - World Beyond the Frontier" (GDW)
 Circa: 1983. Condition: Excellent. (Boxed Module)
 Bid: $5.00 mark@dk-online.dk

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $12.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $9.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: "Fleet Escort Lisiani")
 Bid: $5.00  beck@mail.all-mail.net

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #26" (GDW)
 Circa:1986. Pages:48. Condition:Good.(Article:"Cargo-Merchant Prince Variant")
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #27" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. ( **Droyne/Grandfather Issue** )
 Bid: $5 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #28" (GDW)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Across the Imperium)
 Bid: $5.00 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #29" (GDW)
 Circa:1987. Pages:48. Condition:Good. (**Traveller Tenth Anniversary Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca


MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #56" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition. (**Hard Times Issue**)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #57" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition: Good. (Article: Shellgame)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #64" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 88. Condition: Good. (**Fall of the Imperium Issue**)
 Bid:

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net


TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

*new addition*
"Traveller Chronicle Magazine #10" (Knight)
 Circa:1996. Pages:56. Condition:Excellent. (**Children of Earth - part #1**)
 Bid: $3.00 rdawson@cgc.ns.ca

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

*new addition*
"Not in Our Stars" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 222. Condition: Excellent. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $7.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Voyage of the Planetslayer" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 302. Condition: Fine. (Travller Inspired Novel - 2 of 3)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Revolt and Rebirth" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 329. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel - 3 of 3)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

*new addition*
"Voyages SF Magazine #15" (King)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 34. Condition: Fine. (Article: "Recruiting for Paradise")
 Bid:

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $6.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Sea of Death" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 394. Condition: Fine. (Novel)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Night Arrant" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pahes: 398. Condition: Fine. (Novel - Autographed by Gary)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Come Endless Darkness" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 379. Condition: Good. (Novel)
 Bid:
- -----

That's it for the present. I will post updates every day or so.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 17:48:10 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Ship Design Contest

Hi,
I entered the Ship Design Contest, ( I did the Centaur Enterprises
Wayfarer), and even though I didn't win, I had alot of fun.  Its really
 neat seeing how other people approached the problem.  I think the
standard USD is lacking in detail.  It doesn't include many of the
details of the ship, such as what type of sensors the ship actually
has, just the range of the sensors.  But I guess that is what is in the
ship description.  

I guess I, like several other people, got caught up in giving the ship
nifty gizmos, rather than going for a totally bare bones approach.  

Another neat thing, is seeing how people came up with different names
for the same type of ship. I called my a Scout Cruiser, becuase I
thought that sounded really neat.  

I'd definetly be interested in doing another contest of this type. It
doesn't even need to be a contest, maybe just a bunch of us designing
the same type of ship.  

Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:37:14 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: High Guard and Striker Web Page

I have added seperate sections for High Guard and Striker
to the Free Trader Beowulf web page.

The High Guard page has a bunch of ship designs, and some other stuff
The Striker page has some vehicle designs, and unit TOE's

http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/trav2.html
The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 17:51:47 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: T4 HTML Format

Hi,
I have built a number of ships, and I am converting them to HTML. So
far I have written most of them in FFS style, but I have the T4 UDS
stats for them, and I was wondering if anyone has a template for T4
ships, that they could send me?

Once I have finished converting everything to HTML, I was aiming to get
the files put on anyone's web page who was willing to have them.  


Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #918
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 6 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 919



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)
The Role-Playing Space Combat System
The Role-Playing Space Combat System Pt2
Re: The Role-Playing Space Combat System
Re: Is there interest on Geonee posts
*****THUDDD announcement!*****
A Question About Star Wars Cybertech
Thrusters, Missiles, and EAPlaC
Re CCG killed RPG (long)
Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?
Ship Design Contest
Whither the Destroyer?
Re: Thrusters, Missiles, and EAPlaC
TSR's Troubles
BAB5,Trek
Aging
What are sandcasters?
Re: Aging in T4 (long)
Geonee in The Rebellion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:42:19 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)

At 02:04 PM 2/5/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> It does get my vote for the best SF series in history.  Second place to Star
>> Cops.  Third to Dr. Who.

>As for Dr. Who and Star Cops--this is where I thought you were 
>joking.  I thought both of those were cheap space rip offs not even 
>worth watching while you are working on your Traveller game.

How do I put this...  i ran the largest independant Dr. Who fan club in
North America for several years, have met most of the actors, and still
enjoy the show.  It isn't hard SF, it's just fun.

Star Cops made an attempt to be hard SF.. it wasn't their fault they had no
budget.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 12:45:24 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: The Role-Playing Space Combat System

Hi, 
	I was just wondering if there has been any more work done on RPSC, the
version I was able to find was ver0.9 & was as of September 23, 1996.
Well that was the date on the page for the last update.

thanks
PeteH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 12:47:21 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: The Role-Playing Space Combat System Pt2

Sorry I meant to put the web address as to where I found it.
It is...

http://www.qrc.com:80/~wildstar/rpsc/

PeteH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:43:14 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: The Role-Playing Space Combat System

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Peter Hurley wrote:

> 	I was just wondering if there has been any more work done on RPSC, the
> version I was able to find was ver0.9 & was as of September 23, 1996.
> Well that was the date on the page for the last update.

Hi Peter,

Yes, actually there has been a bit of work done, but not much other than 
editing, typesetting, better explanations, and so on.  

I've offered it to MWM for inclusion in whatever product he sees fit, 
should he be inclined to do so (and sent him a spiral bound hardcopy of 
it).  I haven't heard from him yet either way - but he's a busy person so 
I don't expect to anytime soon.  [G]  At any rate, I've stopped work on 
it for now, since if he does want to include it he may have his own ideas 
for changes, in which case it would be rather counter-productive for me 
to have made changes from what he has in his hands. :)

So, there you have it.  I do hope you enjoy the version that is on the 
web site.  And if you have any suggestions, please do let me know; while 
I'm not making changes, I am archiving suggestions for such a time as I 
may be able to return to work on the system.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:15:49 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Is there interest on Geonee posts

Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:

>
>        Given the past discussions about wasting bandwith, and given that I
>have received no comment on the Geonee Pocket Empire, I would like to know
>if the list as a collective has interest in seeing more Geonee posts. If I
>receive a significant number of responses, I will continue ;-)
>        Thanx
>        Carlos.


        Just because we're quiet about it doesn't mean we don't like them.
Keep up the good work.

        IMHO, the more people post their homebrew material here (ships,
weapons, vehicles, TL-17 fusion-powered chainsaws, background, etc), the
better a resource the TML is.  This list has what... 500 subscribers?
There's going to somebody who's going to save it, and maybe even use it...
So don't worry.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:15:59 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

        OK... judging by the response I've been getting, I think that
there's enough interest in doing an unofficial and perhaps even
semi-organized design competition.  So, without further ado, I'd like to
announce...

<fanfare of kazoos>

        ...The First (and maybe not the last) TML Highly Unofficial &
Democratic Design Derby (THUDDD)!

<larger, triumphant fanfare of kazoos>

        The winner will recieve a magnificent ASCII biscuit stamped with
Commander X's corporate logo (which I'm sure he's gonna donate, right?
Riiight?) and whatever glory winning this sort of thing is worth.  I'll run
this THUDDD, after which any of you guys that want to try it are more than
welcome to do so.


        Step one is determining which classic ship we're going to take a
stab at redesigning.  So, first off, let's have a vote:  what would people
like to work on first?  Ethan Henry has suggested that we do the 600 td
Mercenary Cruiser.  I suggest that we discuss this until Sunday, at which
point I'll tally the votes, and we can all start designing.  I think that
as we're going to be working with classic designs (because that's what Don
McKinney suggested), with fairly obvious mission requirements, we shouldn't
have to spend any time discussing mission requirements.  So, the schedule
for this looks to be as follows:

        -Sunday 9 February: Ship Class votes tallied and competition opened.
        Contestants email me their entries.

        -Sunday 16 February: Competition closes.  I collate and post to the
        TML all entries.  TML'ers rank entries according to whatever
        criteria they like (brutal coolosity?  Number of really really big
        guns?  Low berths to hangar tonnage ratio?  The design actually
        making sense?) and make comments if they so desire, and email
        results to me.

        -Saturday 22 February: I tally up the results, post all entries,
        with comments if any, announce the winner, and email him the
        biscuit (which I'm sure the Commander will have done up in the
        meantime).  The winner basks in the applause of his peers,
        and we all carefully snip and save the resulting alternate
        designs for use in our campaigns. And if anyone else wants to
        launch another THUDDD, go right ahead!

        Hopefully, we'll all have fun, see multiple perspectives on what a
given sort of ship should look like and do, further explore the
implications of its mission requirement, and get a whole bunch of USDs with
which we can make our game universes a little more varied.

        So... which classic Traveller ship are you dying to redesign?  Let
the list know!  At the moment the vote stands at 1 for the 600td
"Basketball of Death" Merc Cruiser. This one might be worth doing since we
know that as it's presented in the T4 rule book it's broken, but whatever.
You guys call it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:40:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: A Question About Star Wars Cybertech

Hello again-

This may not be the perfect forum to ask this, but I don't know of any
current Star Wars RPG mailing lists and I'm figuring a number of other
folks here play Star Wars. 

Anyway, remember Lobot from the 2nd Star Wars movie?  Has anyone ever
written up stats for the computer-link implant he had?  Could you send me
the stats and write-up for it? 

I've looked at all the West End Star Wars books in my local stares and
none of them have stats for this implant, so if West End ever wrote it up,
or if anyone has their own versions I'd greatly appreciate seeing them. 

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:38:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Thrusters, Missiles, and EAPlaC

I like the current 10 m3 size limit on thrusters.  I see thrusters as both
radically different from, and significantly more complicate than ordinary
contragrav.  This rule helps make that distinction more clear.  However,
unlike nearly everything else in T4, Thrusters are unaffected by
increasing TL.  How about changing this so that thrusters can be made
smaller at higher TLs? 

TL:		Minimum Size	Minimum Thrust
TL 11-12	10 m3              400 tons
TL 13-14	 5 m3		200 tons
TL 15-16	 3 m3		100 tons

Uncoincidentally, the TL 15-16 version is the minimum size listed in
Starships on page 97. 

As for missiles, EAPlaC works great.  I back-of-the-enveloped a FF&S
design, with for a 7 m3 missile.  6 m3 of EAPlaC, and 1m3 of 500 KT
det-laser and guidance systems.  This nifty little toy can do 21! Gs for
640 seconds.  It can boost (and evade) continuously for 43,000 km and has
a final velocity of around 480,000 kph (135 km/sec).  With a good evasion
program it would be hard to get with a point defense system, it would do
lots of damage, and other than the warhead cost it would be *very* cheap. 

Sure, top-of-the-line military vessels might be using HEPlaR missiles, but
those are going to cost *lots* more.  This type of missile (likely with a
cheaper, less damaging, warhead would IMHO be standard for Scouts and
Merchants, as well as for many military support vessels. 

Btw, what the heck is EAPlaC?  There is no description in FF&S and I've
never heard of it before.  My assumption for the name is this is some way
of turning solid fuel into a low grade, one use, plasma jet. 

Until Later-  


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:56:05 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: Re CCG killed RPG (long)

My Friend Allen said

>. TSR's problems seem to be
>due to infighting and their inability to come up with any successful
>game other than AD&D, plus a general downturn in the publishing end. I
>do not think CCG's are involved; TSR has a CCG (Spellfire) and Dragon
>Dice, which I hear is quite popular (and designed by GDW alumnus
>Lester Smith, who was also in on the creation of T4).

I think Allen is right here TSR problems are its owen.  IMHO it seems 
that their main problem is the loss of game designers.  With Gaygax 
gone GrayHawk died with him.  Now Tim has moved over to IG (smile) 
and TSR is not planing to put out in more Dark Sun this year last I 
heared.  Also Dragon Lance has died yes I the orginal better.  

As far as CCG I was talking to my Brother who knows a few of the 
creatators of the WOC people and the company has yet to make a 
profit.

> There are some good new
>games out there; FENG SHUI is one of the neatest games I've seen in
>some time, and shows a trend away from complexity and dark angst.

I also agree here and FENG SHUI is the next game on my reading list 
it looks really good.  I dont mind seeing old games revised thats one 
reason why I got T4.  Remember that we are the first generation to 
grow up with RPG and the marketing people who know there jobs are 
hoping to capture our money.  So just like the a few years ago  when we 
started to get 70s stuff back and movies made out of 50 TV shows the 
gamming industry well move to publish things we remember  happly.  If 
you dont belive me just remember where you were Friday night, making 
Mr Lucas 38. something millions more off a move you have most likely
saw many times.

Tim Reynolds

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 00:01:09 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?

>As for Dr. Who and Star Cops--this is where I thought you were
>joking.  I thought both of those were cheap space rip offs not even
>worth watching while you are working on your Traveller game.

I realize that this is a Traveller mailing list, and that everyone is
entitled to his own opinion, but I have to take issue with the above
statement, at least in relation to Doctor Who. I loved this show from the
first time I laid eyes on it. I am somewhat atypical for an American Whovian
as I actually prefer Peter Davison to Tom Baker. In truth, I like all 8 of them.

Doctor Who is a SCIENCE-FANTASY program, which is why it may not appeal to
the more hardcore science-fiction fans on this list, but I love it for the
immense possibilties that traveling through space AND time provides for
adventure. Doctor Who (at it's best) also has a sense of fun and whimsy that
makes it a totally enjoyable experience for me.

I cannot for the life of my figure out what Doctor Who could be a rip-off
of, The show premiered in 1963, BEFORE Star Trek, long before Star Wars. How
could it be a rip-off? Indeed, with it's awesome background of the Time
Lords of Gallifrey and the ability to replace it's star and reinvent itself
through regeneration, I consider Doctor Who to be one of the most ORIGINAL
shows on television anywhere!

Just my 0.02Cr worth...back to talking about Traveller.

                                                Allen Shock

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:24:31 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: Ship Design Contest

We at Founder Ship Works accepted the Scout Services rulling
on IISS MIL-TD/41with only a slight disagrement with the 
 the mission statenment.   Founder Ship Works 
though will not allow this to stop us in congratulating Capt Sir 
Jerami Djano and his company Phoenix Corporation.

Andrew, I  just want to say good job on the ship.

  I personally look foward to doing another contest, and plan sometime to convert the 
Explore 1000  into a combat ship.  I guess Wildstar would have been 
shocked to see the twin PA version I strated with : )                     
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                      
Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net home
tim@gpasf.com   work                        

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:42:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Whither the Destroyer?

Hopefully LTD (Luwas, Tsefe, & Drummond, Naval Architects) will soon
produce an after-action report on the ABELARD's performance in the recent
design contest.  I haven't sat down to do the math yet, but it looks like
use of SSDS instead of QSDS, along with having _three_ custom-designed
cutters aboard rather than the substantially discounted standard models,
significantly inflated the price.  Okay, so I went a little overboard on
sensor packages too....  :-)

In the meantime, since that was my first ship design using SSDS, I'm going
back to look at some of the ships already published.  I'm hoping y'all can
tell me whether that's a mistake in and of itself.

I'm looking at the "Military Destroyer" (apparently designed by Don Perrin
himself?), published in "Starships," p. 60.  I used to do deckplans back
in my CT days, and thought this looked like a fun project while getting
back into the game.  So I've tried to use the existing write-up to work
out the SSDS design of the vessel.

I can't fit four fifty-ton laser bays into the design -- only two.  My
price is MCr1240 rather than the MCr413 listed: three hundred percent?!. 
Crew is only 45 rather than 50, though I'm not so worried about that. 

Given my fiscal troubles with the ABELARD, the cost is what worries me the
most.  What design system produced the Destroyer?  Am I totally misreading
the costs or rules for same in SSDS?  I'll make my worksheet available for
anyone who wants to check it out.  Right now I'm just confused and a bit
shaken.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:35:37 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Thrusters, Missiles, and EAPlaC

>I like the current 10 m3 size limit on thrusters.  I see thrusters as both
>radically different from, and significantly more complicate than ordinary
>contragrav.  This rule helps make that distinction more clear.  However,
>unlike nearly everything else in T4, Thrusters are unaffected by
>increasing TL.  How about changing this so that thrusters can be made
>smaller at higher TLs?
>
>TL:             Minimum Size    Minimum Thrust
>TL 11-12        10 m3              400 tons
>TL 13-14         5 m3           200 tons
>TL 15-16         3 m3           100 tons

Good point. We do not want thrusterbased gravcars etc at lower TL's.
I prefer size limits like 10m3 + 0.025 x Th where Th is thrust in tons.
This makes the absolute min size a bit mor blurred. There will be a
theoretical min size and an economical min size.

>final velocity of around 480,000 kph (135 km/sec).  With a good evasion
>program it would be hard to get with a point defense system, it would do
>lots of damage, and other than the warhead cost it would be *very* cheap.

What warhead cost? Any space missile would either have a nuclear warhead or
use kinetic energy. Each kilogram of mass on impact would pack the
equivalent of 2 tons of TNT at 135 km/s. HE and HEAP warheads are as silly
as wings and fins on vacuum only spaceships and nuke warheads are out
because of the Imperial Rules of War unless you design for the Imperium.


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 10:33:59 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: TSR's Troubles

Allen said in TML918:
>Subject: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)

>First of all, TSR is definitley having troubles. They cancelled the Winter
>Fantasy gaming con they always had here in the US due primarily to the fact
>that they laid off so many of the people running the con from the RPGA that
>they didn't have enough people to run it...

I'm afraid to say it wasn't the lack of people to run it... my IISS Scouts
tell me it was pure money problems... let's just say they were well behind
on payment...

>Secondly, I think it is patently unfair to blame CCg's for the troubles of
>the roleplaying game market. There is no question that from 1993-1995, CCG's
>ate a large share of the gamer's money. I believe this was due to a number
>of factors but chief among these were that they were the new thing, and
>frankly there was nothing new and exciting in the RPG market.

I think the CCG thing goes much deeper - the games are short sharp and
snappy - no waiting around for long descriptions, having to think through
cunning referee plots and certainly no actual 'thought' about long-term
player development. CCGs are symbolic of the whizz-bang
32-pictures-flashing-by-in-a-second sort of TV and computer games that have
built up over the last 5-10 years. I know that I've read articles stating
that the attention span of most youngsters is now significantly shorter than
previous generations. The idea of them having to sit down and read a fiction
book is abhorrent to them. So how do you get them into a RPG where at least
one guy (the ref) has to have read at least 300 pages odd (T4 rulebook plus
an adventure or background supplement) before you can start playing? CCG's
are *not* the problem, it's the whole mentality of the youth of today. About
all we can do is rebel by throwing that damnable satellite dish in the bin
and not letting your children out of the house each day until they've read
at least a chapter from a decent sci-fi book! :-)

The simple answer is, the number of potential young RPG customers has
dramatically declined. This needn't continue to happen, and can be
counteracted to some degree by people getting out there and *demonstrating*
them to newbies. CCGs didn't just appeal to RPGers (thus draining part of
the RPG market cash) but also to lots of youngsters, because of the concept
of collectability; as a child I saw my fellows avidly spending cash on the
footballer collectable cards and the Trump card packs (these latter being
the clear predecessors of CCGs).

As Allen pointed out, at least Traveller does have a good following of many
years, with a background that isn't too difficult for new players to
understand. My one worry is that the revival in Star Wars this year will see
more newbies buying that than Traveller. Let's hope we can hold on to the
coat-tails!

Enough boring waffle.

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:54:47 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: BAB5,Trek

Here's another, um, lets see, ah 1,2, definitely 2 thumbs up and 2 big toes
up for BAB5,

I 2 am a trekkie (in all its formats) fan (although Voyager does lag behind
even CT (Classic Trek)), but what i like most about BAB5 is that A) its not
moralistic like a lot of Trek is, B) its a five year storyline, unlike Trek
which at most is a two episode storyline, with occasional bad guys comeing
back in Future episodes (Q and the Borg for 2, and if you count the films
as well then add in Khan, who was in a CT episode then the main baddie in
Wrath of Khan)

So far i have the Pilot and the first 11 videos of BAB5 and still
collecting (this is just into season 2)




Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 11:03:01 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Aging

If Joe doesn't get to this before me...

>Question for the answer team: how will vilani and solomani aging
>differences be applied in T4?

It will probably be covered in Pocket Empires.

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 00:09:46 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: What are sandcasters?

I've been thinking about how the various weapons
work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
what I understand they work by physically placing
a large number of smallish highly refractive
particles in the path of a laser; and they also
work against missiles by acting as a physical
barrier. Seems simple enough, a giant shotgun
sort of weapon (a comment in Striker about their
use as an antipersonnel weapon seems to bear this
out).

But heres the problem: they're an active defence.
How do they detect the incoming laserbeam? Any
sensor can only detect a beam when it arrives, so
you only see it when it hits you. Any sensor which
detects it at a distance can only get the
information back either at the same moment it hits
or (more likely) slightly after.

Now thinking about it, I've come up with three
possible methods of operation, none of which appear
to be particularly convincing.

1) They are in fact a passive defence. A ship fires
its sandcasters more or less at random, providing
a sheild which effects any incoming beam. From what
I remember of the original Book 2 rules, this is
how it was implied they worked. However everything
since then contradicts this. As far as I'm aware,
every system since then uses them in response to
specific incoming fire.

2) Laser weapons require the target to be illuminated
by a lower power targeting beam and the sandcaster
fires in response to this. This seems reasonable on
the face of it, but would lead to some interesting
tactical situations. A ship could mount additional
targeting lasers which would illuminated enemy ships
encouraging them to "waste" their sand canisters,
greatly reducing the effectiveness of sandcasters.
Or a ship could fire its lasers "blind" preventing
the enemy from using sandcasters at the cost of
reduced accuracy.

3) Sandcasters have some form of FTL detection
apperatus, possible working on the principle of short
range electron tunneling. The sandcaster detects the
laserbeam a short distance away from the hull and
automatically fires. The detection method is very
short ranged and therefore has only a few very
limited applications. However it does mean that
sandcaster would have to be a very advanced weapon
system, certainly not tech 7 as the rules indicate.

Can anyone else come up with any other explainations?


  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "At Phoenix, we strive for adequate"
      Captain Sir Jerami Djano IN (ret) CEO Phoenix Corporation
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 02:05:49 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Aging in T4 (long)

When T4 first came out one of the first things I looked at was the
aging system, I did an analysis of the expected mean lifetime an average
charecter can expect.  It is 100 years.

	This analysis is for an average charecter with UPP 7777xx

Age	Target	% Chance of   	Statistical	Statistical	
	#	Failure	    	Loss (Points)	Charecteristic

30	n/a	0		0		7
35	3	8.3		0.083		6.917
40	4	16.7		0.167		6.750
45	4	16.7		0.167		6.583
50	5	27.8		0.278		6.305
55	5	27.8		0.278		6.027
60	6	41.7		0.417		5.610
65	6	41.7		0.417		5.193
70	7	58.3		0.583		4.610
75	7	58.3		0.583		4.027
80	8	0.722		0.722		3.305
85	8	0.722		0.722		2.583
90	9	0.833		0.833		1.750
95	9	0.833		0.833		0.917
100	10	0.917		0.917		0

	This analysis assumes that an average person will be generated  with a
UPP of 7777xx.  This analysis assumes that no attributes are raised
during charecter generation.
  	
	While this assumption is obviously false it will simplify our work &
besides since charecters die when any attribute hits zero they would
need to be in a service where they could raise all 4 stats for this to
affect their aging (Agent, Entertainer, or Rogue - not counting
mustering out bonuses).

	Next I would like to propose a method for handling aging for charecters
with Vilani blood.  In MegaTraveller a charecter with some Vilani blood
received a bonus to all aging throws of between +1 and +5 with a +4
representing an average pure Vilani (Vilani & Vargr by DGP).
I suggest that in T4 the bonus should instead be a negative modifier to
the Aging Target number. Thus if you are 50 years old (age on a 5 or
less) but are a full bolooded Vilani (+4 bonus) you will age on a 1 or
less and therefore you are unaffected by aging.

	Using this system I have calculated how long charecters with dfferent
amounts of Vilani blood will live.

Ammount of	Bonus to	Mean Age
Vilani Blood	Aging 		at Death

Mostly non-Vilani	+0		100
Mixed Lineage		+1		109.39
Mixed Lineage		+2		119.24
Mixed Lineage		+3		129.34
Average Pure Vilani	+4		139.24
Bloodline renowned	+5		149.24
for longevity 

	These results approximate those given in Vilani & Vargr which says that
"Genetically pure Vilani often have natural lifespans exceeding 130
years in length."  They do not match some CT references which said that
some Vilani live up to 200 years but I suggest that the 200 year figure
repesenta people secretly using anagathics, pro-Vilani propaganda, or
the Imperial record for long life.

	My next analysis will determine how old a charecter will_look_
This analysis assumes that humans with mostly non-Vilani blood are the
norm.  It further assumes that charecters who are at ages where they
will have lost the same ammount due to aging will look the same age.  In
other words if a 65 year old Solomani percon will have average stats 0f
5.193 a Vilani who has average stats of 5.193 will look 65 to the
average Solomani on the street. (Which presumably includes most of the
list.)  Age 15 through 35 are interpolated.

Aparent		Aging Throw Bonus & Actual Age
Age		+0	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5

15		15	15	15	15	15	15		20		20	20	23	26	28	30
25		25	26	31	36	41	46
30		30	32	39	47	53	61
35		35	38	47	57	66	76
40		40	47	56	66	76	86
45		45	52	71	81	81	91	
50		50	57	67	77	87	97
55		55	63	73	83	93	103		
60		60	69	79	89	99      109	
65		65	74	85	95	105	115
70		70	79	89	99	109	119
75		75	84	93	103	113	123
80		80	89	99	109	119	129
85		85	94	104	114	124	134
90		90	99	109	119	129	139
95		95	104	114	124	134	144
100		100	109	119	129	139	149		
	This table will should help you visualize how old your charecter or NPC
will look.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:16:37 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Geonee in The Rebellion

        O.K. I received a significant number of positive responses to my
question about the interest on my Geonee post, and nobody seems to think
that I am wasting bandwith, so, presented here for you entertainment....
Geonee Setting 2, The Rebellion. Stats are consistent with TD 11 and Knightfall.
        Comments are not only welcomed, also desired.
- --------------------------------------------------

Setting 2: The Rebellion & The Geonee Cultural Region (1120)

Rigaal 0928 B100679-E	Ni Va Na  714 Li  M1 V M8 D
	In the surface of this small planet there are several
independent cities built using different techniques: domes,
underground and even one closed, mobile gravitic city.

Hiponee  1027 B686351-B  N  Ni Lo  721 Li  F3 V
	Traditional holidays residence of the Geonee
nobility, this planet is almost a paradise divided into private
states. Planetary affairs are managed by a council of
administrators designed by the nobles. A huge orbital
complex is home of the Naval base and the starport.

Dreva  1028 E30089D-7  Va Na  610 Li  F1 V M6 D
	600 million people live in underground cities and
tunnels in this pre-stellar technology planet, governed by an
oppressive paramilitary bureaucracy whose key positions are
usually in the hands of the Geonee nobility.

LAGNA	  1029 A110A97-G  Hi In Na   231 Li  G3 V M8 D
	This heavily populated system has a developed,
flowering hi-tech industry which uses raw materials from the
rich asteroid belts and exports products to dozens of worlds.
The Geonee nobility is strongly involved with the
bureaucratic government.

Stenardee  1130 B110346-D  Ni Lo   114 Li  F3 V
	The system is just an outpost, a starport maintained
for the convenience of interstellar commerce. The whole
population works in the starport facilities.

Ashavakuna  1131 B567622-9   Ni Ag  810 Li  F4 V M7 D
	The 8 million inhabitants are governed through a
decentralized participating, democratic system, with frequent
public votes on specific questions. They maintain huge
agricultural exploitations and export non-synthetic high-
quality food to other planets

Prindee	  1330 D443578-9  S  Ni Po  524 Li  G2 D M6 D
	The low gravity and tainted atmosphere of this
planet have always made it unappealing for the Geonee.
Nevertheless, the system is the only one that can be
reached from Shiwonee by Jump-1, and so has always had
Geonee presence. There are seven different political entities
here: four noble states, an independent democratic country
(home of the starport and the scout base) , a mining
company, and an arcology governed by an impersonal
bureaucracy.

Shiwonee  1430 AA86831-G N  Ni An Cp  433 Li F7 VI M9 D
	Home of the Shiwonee minor human race, with 1.3
Gs and 1.5 atm presure. Geologically very active, with
frequent earthquakes and an important number of
volcanoes.
	Short and stocky built (average 1.5 m tall, and 65
kg), the Geonee firmly believe that they are the Ancients. In
fact, the planet has an important Ancient site and a sizeable
Chirper population.
	The Geonee culture is oppressively male-
dominated. Protection of the women is seen as compulsory
(and so they are kept under lock and key!). Men must attract
a Chirper as a pet before they can marry.
	Shiwonee is governed by the Meraloo Council,
formed by 18 married men. Nowadays, in practice, all
members belong to the nobility. The most important member
is the Duke of Shiwonee, who holds the representativeness
of the Geonee worlds before the Imperium.

Tlasov  1328 A100663-F  Ni Va Na O:1430  903 Li  G0 V
	This is not a Geonee world, but it has been closely
associated to the Geonee history. In 626 the subsector
capital was moved from Tlasov to Shiwonee, and then
Tlasov economy collapsed. Geonee commercial interests
started to be very much involved in local affaiis, and, in 796,
the Imperium acceded to settle Tlasov economic's debts by
converting the planet into a Shiwonee's colony (the official
title is "Protectorate").
	Geonee nobles and banks own all public firms and
all rights to the system's resources. The starport is, in
practice, a subsidiary of Shiwonee's. Some Geonee
industries from Shiwonee and Lagna have started new
factories in the system, and a small population of Geonee
colonists (around 250,000) is growing.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #919
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 6 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 920



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)
things
Re: What are sandcasters?
RE: THUDDD
RE: What are sandcasters?
Aramis/Spinward Marches again!
re: Sancasters
Geonee Stuff
Re: Whither the Destroyer?
Re: What are sandcasters?
THUDD
Broken Destroyer
Proton Motorcycle Design.
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****
[Traveller Answer] non-Spacecraft Weapon Design
Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)
[Traveller Answer] Military Destroyer

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:49:35 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Re: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)

Thanks for the comments, Jo. Upon reflection, I agree with you about the
need for advertising and the lack of it in the RPG industry. To be honest
with you, I haven't seen any ads for T4 in any GAME magazines, let alone
science-fiction magazines like ANALOG or mags like STARLOG, which you think
would be a prime place for Traveller to be advertised. This could be a major
limiting factor.
Yes, advertising costs money. You have to spend money to make money.
        And I also agree that the lack of back-cover text on the T4 books is
very anoying. One of my players picked up my copy of Central Supply Catalog
the other day and looked at the back and said "so what is this?"; the
significance of this only occured to me as I was reading your message.
        So, maybe we should put some gentle friendly pressure on Imperium
Games to do some advertising and explain what their books are all about on
the back.
They might even listen to us :)
        As for the state of the RPG industry; I refuse to abandon my
optimism even in the face of unassailable logic such as yours. <g>
Seriously, my take on Feng Shui wasn't that it was going to save the
industry; only the people who run it can do that. I merely meant that it
showed a trend in RPG design that I approved of; a FUN game without needless
complication and not set in a dark, depressing enviornment. That alone will
not prop up the industry.
                                                Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 13:25:14 -0800
From: Neil Simpson <catwalk@ibm.net>
Subject: things

This is going to cover several things.                                       
1/ I was reffing character generation for T4 the other night and two problems 
came up.First-you can only go to Commando School if you`re a graduate of 
Military Academy,this means all Commandoes are officers,a completely false 
situation.Second-where are the ammo prices?Why does the cp-03 pistol cost 500 
credits more on p74 than on p80?                                             
2/ When is the Milieu zero sourcebook coming out?More importantly,when is the 
Emperor`s Arsenal coming out?                                                
3/Redoing the mercenary cruiser for the THUDD comp suits me.                 
4/I was re-reading my copy of "Federation" by H. Beam Piper and came upon the 
final short story in it-"When in the course" which is the original version of 
"Gunpowder God"("Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" to you colonials).The difference 
is that it`s set in the Terran Federation universe,the people with advanced 
knowledge are looking for a planet to exploit commercially so that they can 
become the "chartered (insert planet name)company".What they find is the same 
situation as in the start of G.G. and they set about changing things with the 
aid of contra-grav and machine guns.The story just begs to be turned into a 
Milieu nought scenario.What do you think?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:39:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Andrew Vallance wrote:

> I've been thinking about how the various weapons
> work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
> I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
> what I understand they work by physically placing
> a large number of smallish highly refractive
> particles in the path of a laser; and they also
> work against missiles by acting as a physical
> barrier. Seems simple enough, a giant shotgun
[snip]

You cant pre-deploy the sand, because manuvering will take you out of your
own protective cloud..unless you bring the cloud with you.

I see two possibilities (I do not believe there is canonical source for
sand explained to this level);

1).  The sand particles or pieces (I see them as larger, myself) are
"ionized" .  This allows them to be "towed" or "tractored" using
electromagnetic energy from the defending vessel.  Violent manuvering
(commonly used in combat) will eventually attrit the sand so that it gets
used up.  Sand is concentrated along the likely path of incoming fire
(i.e. where the bad guys are).

This has several possible hooks or implications (depending on how you look
at it).  First, a special munition or bean weapon should have (by now)
been developed which would disrupt or deionize the particles just prior to
laser fire (it could be said that this possibility is represented by the
random likelihood of penetrating the sand field).  Second, the sandcaster
turret now has an integral magnetic field generator which, I'm sure, we
can all think of other uses for.

2).  Sand is launched *after* the initial beam hit.  Beam weapons in this
explanation require several seconds of contact to do real damage (not an
unlikely possibility).  The random factor of the sand intercepting the
beam represents how quickly the computer or operator can deploy the sand
in the right place. (in a matter of milliseconds, hopefully)

I like the first one better, although it has more opportunity for "player
abuse".  The second explanation is neater, but requires laser turrets to
change from the typical picture somewhat.

In an adventure once some players fired the sandcaster while on the
ground.  The referee described it as "A huge shotgun full of fragments of
broken glass, and as imprecise as it sounds."  In a half a second a field
full of gun-toting drug dealers (with whom we were conducting business)
and two player charaacters were reduced to so much hamburger.  It was not
pretty.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:41:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: RE: THUDDD

From Commander X at the Office
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

Quoting from:
>Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:15:59 -0500
>From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
>Subject: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

>        OK... judging by the response I've been getting, I think that
>there's enough interest in doing an unofficial and perhaps even
>semi-organized design competition.  So, without further ado, I'd like to
>announce...

><fanfare of kazoos>

>        ...The First (and maybe not the last) TML Highly Unofficial &
>Democratic Design Derby (THUDDD)!

><larger, triumphant fanfare of kazoos>

>        The winner will recieve a magnificent ASCII biscuit stamped with
>Commander X's corporate logo (which I'm sure he's gonna donate, right?
>Riiight?) and whatever glory winning this sort of thing is worth.  I'll run
>this THUDDD, after which any of you guys that want to try it are more than
>welcome to do so.

Behold!  I persent the coveted Golden X-TEK Buscuit! ;->

(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)
  >           X-TEK            <
(__________________)

(It's supposed to look like a Milkbone Biscuit)

>        Step one is determining which classic ship we're going to take a
>stab at redesigning.  So, first off, let's have a vote:  what would people
>like to work on first?  Ethan Henry has suggested that we do the 600 td
>Mercenary Cruiser.

Er...Is'nt that supposed to be the 800ton Merc Cruiser? I believe 600tons is 
a bit small and is an error in T4.

<Snipages>

>        Hopefully, we'll all have fun, see multiple perspectives on what a
>given sort of ship should look like and do, further explore the
>implications of its mission requirement, and get a whole bunch of USDs with
>which we can make our game universes a little more varied.

That is why we play this game for, right, FUN?

>        So... which classic Traveller ship are you dying to redesign?  Let
>the list know!  At the moment the vote stands at 1 for the 600td
>"Basketball of Death" Merc Cruiser. This one might be worth doing since we
>know that as it's presented in the T4 rule book it's broken, but whatever.
>You guys call it.

"Basketball of Death?"  We always used to call our 800ton Broadsword Class 
Merc Cruiser the "Happy Fun Ball", as in "Do not taunt the..."

I would like to build that sucker, I always did like the HFB(Happy Fun Ball) 
starships, and I have modified those thing to no tommorrow in CT,MT, and 
TNE!  Ah CT/MT...those were the days.

I will give but one secret to an old design I had for the TRUE HFB Merc 
Design
Do you realy need 2 50 ton mod cutters, or could you drop one and mayhaps 
make some room for lets say, a 50 to BAY WEAPON?  loose both and you get a 
100 ton bay!  Now stick a 100 ton PA bay or something in there.  Now do you 
know why we don't taunt the Happy Fun Ball?  );->   <---- the devil made me 
do it!

Yes my vote is for the 800Ton Merc Cruiser, I want to convert my HFB class 
cruiser to T4 and submit it.  this sounds like great fun.

"Make it so!"

Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:43:46 -0700
From: "efritz@GLJA.com" <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: RE: What are sandcasters?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1401.96921490
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Interesting thread! I'll make some comments.

- ----------
From: 	Andrew Vallance
Sent: 	Feb 06, 1997 4:09 AM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	What are sandcasters?

I've been thinking about how the various weapons
work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
[munch]

This brings up the issue of ammunition for the sandcasters. Do you need
to buy new canisters of particles when you're in port? Or does it just
use the ship's waste and convert it into tiny particles?

But heres the problem: they're an active defence.
How do they detect the incoming laserbeam? Any
sensor can only detect a beam when it arrives, so
you only see it when it hits you. Any sensor which
detects it at a distance can only get the
information back either at the same moment it hits
or (more likely) slightly after.

How's this for an idea? With lasers, you don't aim and then shoot. You
shoot and then aim. If I have a beam laser and I'm firing at you, I turn
on the beam when it's pointing somewhere in your vicinity and then move
it until it's focussed on you.

This gives rise to the possibility of detection of laser beams by the
energizing of interplanetary hydrogen before it hits you. I'm anyone with
a better knowledge of physics than I (which will be just about everyone)
will point out why this can't work though.







- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1401.96921490
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+Ih8OAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy
b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAFAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL
AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAQwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHRyYXZlbGxlckBNUEdO
LkNPTQBTTVRQAHRyYXZlbGxlckBNUEdOLkNPTQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAA
ABMAAAB0cmF2ZWxsZXJATVBHTi5DT00AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABUAAAAndHJh
dmVsbGVyQE1QR04uQ09NJwAAAAACAQswAQAAABgAAABTTVRQOlRSQVZFTExFUkBNUEdOLkNPTQAD
AAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAk0uAQSAAQAaAAAAUkU6IFdoYXQgYXJlIHNh
bmRjYXN0ZXJzPwDXCAEFgAMADgAAAM0HAgAGAAcAKwAuAAQAQAEBIIADAA4AAADNBwIABgAHACYA
CwAEABgBAQmAAQAhAAAAQ0NDMUE1NkNBNjdGRDAxMTg5RjUwMEEwMjQ2OTAzMkYAIAcBA5AGAIQG
AAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDwhWIoPBS8
AR4AcAABAAAAGgAAAFJFOiBXaGF0IGFyZSBzYW5kY2FzdGVycz8AAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvBQ8
KFBspcHNf6YR0In1AKAkaQMvAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEAAAAGVmcml0
ekBHTEpBLmNvbQADAAYQy2UgmwMABxA1BAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASU5URVJFU1RJTkdUSFJFQURJ
TExNQUtFU09NRUNPTU1FTlRTLS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006QU5EUkVXVkFMTEFOQ0VTRU5UOkZFQjA2
LDE5OTc0OjA5QU1UTzpUUkFWRUxMRVJATQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAPkEAAD1BAAACAkAAExaRnUY1zQE
/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIC5AcTAoMiMw96aGVsAyBEbBpn
AoM0BEYCAHBycewxIAhVAoB9CoAIzwnZ4jsYDzI1NQKACoENscELYG5nMTAzFAALCssVoQvyYwBA
IEkCMASQhQeQdAuAZyB0aBgQaGFkIRzgJxTxAMBruGUgcwNwHrAFoG0HgBkCMHMuCoUKi2xpMQQ4
MALRaS0xNDTPDfAM0CGTC1kxNgqgA2D1HRBjBUAtI7cKhyJrDDD1IzZGA2E6JL4jNgyCE1BsbmQY
EAfgVgdAGvFjfmUkXyVtBmACMCafJ6tGAmUoUDA2LCAxOYA5NyA0OjA5E1BmTSlvJW1UbyuvJ6t0
GHJhdhThBJBATVBgR04uQ08uvypvddxiaiNxMO8nq1cRwAVAxwrAHrEAcGRjYR1QBJDMcz8fvyDD
MzYiNxLxzwvyIzYeMDLwIGIJ4R2hPQuAax1yAaAIYAVAaG/XB+AdsB6wdgrAaQhgBCCqdx3gcAIg
cwqFdwWwPms4cCiAPkMEYDiRSSD9F6BvQCEFQDjJQHcKhUEQNSiQYQfgYTzAGvFrLswgSj7gPfRk
b0GrP/KOPyZDCo8cHFttdSkwtGhdOYxUPTAEIGIFEHMbEAQgdXA+QwQBClAg3G9mOHAfQEiQaR1g
AiC+IAIQBcA+UjjJREBERQBSeQhgIG4J4GRGhXTxRQBidXlN4QfgOQADAO9CFEtRRrEdYGMzID7x
FND7A6BNsSc4kQuAUBAXsUYgnk8FwETwB5FL0CBqRHGfRoU+4B6wTHM9MHAnPvH3ORJAMwWgbjLw
ACBSgguAf06hHWFO8FAnOX86jzudQt894h0iPkMjMQJgZSaBPlH+eVFCA5EA0B1gPKENsQnw+ylA
H6ZIRMRbYlxxI2NKs98pMANwHXILYBHwcjzQS4D7RiAocHlGhRHwAIAFsU9R+UtAbmxeF0PRX9FQ
tFKR9wrABRAy8HMt4B7QRoVNsv9hcxHwStEFQGKmPTAfgE2i30RAYCFgtlDAUGBoRoVeNL9SczhS
Q3BPgSkiYShnEgC/PkJGhQuATDEAwEvjYgDQ/UAgZUvQWjFBckx0HvEEYO8fUmWGRoUFsShAwyDw
HqCNYZApHsAg8GdodGGR/mEBgASQH6ZG/xyFXQhUMa89IQQgTDIDkWkNsGFGID5Xa/FfZGOBTbJE
8G4nvzhhB3BANgOgU/BBQHREQH5ZCGBgVnaSdeh1sURASf9LYEEQEcA8oWI1X3NAMx4wf2KAIWBK
IkFyTbEt4EEQdP0IcG5t9j0CPLJieFQxP0B/VbEdch7SUMFRVE2xBcB2/1BgC4BL0G/hdgYEYDLw
ama/BUBIkB1gAyB9kwIQYz7gvxHwQGBMAWYSSO8EIGdjUj4gBRBTgl3DUaEEEGli/wMQf+JLUV40
S/JLUXnkX8K/SfFO8Go4CfAEkIRweh1yv0tRVbEEkAtRTfABkHJO8PRoeSiQb2nwa3ENwEDS/2Wb
eoIAcE2wTfA/AGvxcGVnYjICQGwha24+IDMgZO9p8E/jirAAkGNCUgORQRB+KGcTjSEU8TzQUrM9
pWX7VTGM4ik/hpCyfeNLQD3h/1DAiCJJ4U9RdYE/8x2wCGD/b6Afr1f/O52VfJjvlh9xSwuX/Rcx
AJ1wAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzCADr1gOxS8AUAACDCADr1gOxS8AR4APQABAAAABQAA
AFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAD/Ew==

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1401.96921490--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:40:14 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Aramis/Spinward Marches again!

Does anybody have any information on wheather there are Ancients 
sites in Aramis subsector?
I am playing the Traveller Adventure and my adventurers are straying 
somewhat, having the idea that their disease (see: The Traveller 
Adventure) is in some way related to the ancients!
So I would be very happy to feed their imaginations further and lead 
them on a wild goose chase! 

(We're off to find the herring, the wonderful herring that's red!)

Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 02:12:50 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: re: Sancasters

I've always played sancasters as if they were the force shields in
2300AD.
They are launched prior to the start of battle. Magnetic fields align
them evenly around the ship, and aslo provide a "polarization", which
puts their shiny side out.
As the sand takes hits, three things happen.
A small amout of energy is reflected.
A larger amount of energy is absobed via vapourisation.
The computer detects the change in the field due to missing sand
particles and informs the gunner, who must decide within milliseconds
;), whether to launch another cannister or conserve ammo.

This obviously means that the sand particles must be magnetic, and a
sancaster turret must produce a magnetic field to control the particles.
(1MW of power should be sufficient, I hope), and finally, such fine
detail of control of a magnetic feild must be possible (I envisage
sandcasters or "sand-shields" to be a very late TL-8 innovation.

Harry the ... oh you know!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 10:36:14 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Geonee Stuff

>        Given the past discussions about wasting bandwith, and given that I
>have received no comment on the Geonee Pocket Empire, I would like to know
>if the list as a collective has interest in seeing more Geonee posts. If I
>receive a significant number of responses, I will continue ;-)
  
I was a bit behind, so I didn't get a chance to respond to your post. I
am definitly interested in more on the Geonee.  I don't know much about
them, except that they are short, and think that they are the Ancients.
 My campaign is also set in the Reformation Coalition, so I am
definetly interested in what you have going on in Massilia sector.  

More information on the Confederation, would be useful.  What makes it
different from all the other pocket empires that people make up.  Were
those the only worlds  in the Confederation?  

Don't be discouraged, if you don't get many responses when you post
something big.  Most people just file things away for latter use.  Its
only if you make a mistake or make some kind of really wacked idea,
(for example Pogo Sticks :) )



Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:29:21 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Whither the Destroyer?

Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett wrote:


[snip]
>
>I'm looking at the "Military Destroyer" (apparently designed by Don Perrin
>himself?), published in "Starships," p. 60.  I used to do deckplans back
>in my CT days, and thought this looked like a fun project while getting
>back into the game.  So I've tried to use the existing write-up to work
>out the SSDS design of the vessel.
>
>I can't fit four fifty-ton laser bays into the design -- only two.  My
>price is MCr1240 rather than the MCr413 listed: three hundred percent?!.
>Crew is only 45 rather than 50, though I'm not so worried about that.
>
>Given my fiscal troubles with the ABELARD, the cost is what worries me the
>most.  What design system produced the Destroyer?  Am I totally misreading
>the costs or rules for same in SSDS?  I'll make my worksheet available for
>anyone who wants to check it out.  Right now I'm just confused and a bit
>shaken.

        One of the less obvious problems with Starships is that some of the
designs are impossible; the Luxury Liner having more cubic meters in high
passage staterooms alone *than its entire hull displacement*, that sort of
thing.  As I've already noted, somebody took a look at the Merc Cruiser and
found that it shouldn't physically be able to pack as many guns as it does.
And the ship prices are oddly low, too.  Methinks that they weren't using
the same system they gave us to do those ships.

        As for price discrepancies between QSDS and SSDS, I can't really
comment; I never bothered to learn QSDS.  Intuitively, SSDS ships do seem
more expensive, but hey... I don't think that you could have done the
Abelard with QSDS; I think the flexibility makes it the better system, even
if the prices are higher...  After all, this is a roleplaying game, and so
long as the ships are economically not unreasonable, I'm not going to let a
slightly higher price tag bug me.

        By now you've probably seen my THUDDD announcement post; any
suggestions as to what we should design first?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:29:08 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Andrew Vallance (well-deserving CSC recipient) wrote:

[snip]
>
>Can anyone else come up with any other explainations?
>
>
>  Andrew etc.
>    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

        My take on sandcasters vs lasers is as follows: given that this is
space combat, taking place over huge distances, with combatants travelling
at fairly high speeds, all a sandcaster gunner does is periodically fire a
canister of sand placed such that it will remain between the combatants on
their projected trajectory for as long as possible.  Split-second
close-range dogfighting =E0 la Star Wars or Star Trek just isn't going to be
happening, and changing course will be difficult (I'd highly recommend
sitting down with Microsoft Space Simulator to get a visceral sense for
this) and long-term once the combatants have been accellerating for a
while.  Therefore, each ship will be able to plot its adversaries probable
motions into the short-term future, and placing a canister such that it'll
catch incoming laser fire shouldn't be difficult.

        With regards to missiles, this is a no-brainer; use the sandcaster
like a shotgun, using the missile's own kinetic energy to kill it with
multiple small impacts.

        Something that has occurred to me is that sandcasters would be very
effective at discouraging longterm pursuit; you don't want to be constantly
accellerating after something while flying through clouds of grit... it'd
be kinda suicidal.  Same goes for rapidly closing attackers; a can of sand
could at the least trash all unarmoured equipment on the outside of the
hull.

        It also occurs to me that this might explain why fighters are
supposed to be the Third Imperium's main advantage; they can overwhelm the
target ship's sandcaster batteries by presenting lasers firing from
multiple points.  They can get around the walls the sandcasters throw up,
and unless the target has a _lot_ of sandcasters, tracking a bunch of say
20 fighters, placing clouds of sand between the target and each fighter's
trajectory within the fighter's lethal radius is going to be difficult,
especially as the fighters have 6G's or so of delta V; start firing
sandcasters too early and the fighters will simply change their
trajectories so that they travel past the cloud and fire unobscured.  OTOH,
too late and they get some shots off... but yet again OTOH, they'd make
good anti-fighter defenses; a fast pass through a cloud of sand would
probably cramp a fighter's style some.

        Actually, the more I think about it the more I think that
Sandcasters are interesting weapons systems.  Lots of implications, not the
least of which would be that firing them off in traffic lanes is probably
illegal :).  Spent sand would be a helluva space junk hazard...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 10:51:12 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: THUDD

I have a few questions on how this is supposed to work.  Say we are all
supposed to design a Merc Cruiser.  What are the design parameters,
What CT had,MT had, or TNE had or any ship that has the same name.  ie
Are we all going to end up building 600ton Spherical ships with J1 G1
(or whatever the correct stats as given in CT are)  It doesn't seem
like there is much room for creativity there.  

What I would suggest is that we make up TL-12 ships that accomplish the
same task, ie in the case of the Merc Cruiser carrying a small group of
mercenaries to their destination and landing them.  

As for suggestions for which ships to make. I thought that IG was
redoing many of the ships in Starships, so that they actually follow
the rules.   But I guess we can do the same.  I would suggest redoing
the small craft first. They are most obviously broken.  Its a real
challenge making small craft below TL-12, because Fusion plants are so
big.  You really have to use Fission, or fuel cells.  You certainly can
not make the Tl-9 4G ships that are in Starships.  

I'd vote for redoing the Heavy Fighter from Starships.

Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 11:00:00 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Broken Destroyer

>I'm looking at the "Military Destroyer" (apparently designed by Don Perrin
>himself?), published in "Starships," p. 60.  I used to do deckplans back
>in my CT days, and thought this looked like a fun project while getting
>back into the game.  So I've tried to use the existing write-up to work
>out the SSDS design of the vessel.

I wouldn't be suprised that it doesn't actually add up.  It was one of
the few ships that isn't obviously broken.  The 10 ton fighter, with 10
tons of fuel, is the most obvious example.  :( Don seemed to just put
stats out of the air for the ships. :(


Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:21:50 -0500
From: lewis@chara.gsu.edu (Lewis Roberts)
Subject: Proton Motorcycle Design.

Hi,
Here is the first vehicle I designed with the new system in the CSC.
I like the system, it is definetly cheaper to build things than in
FFS.  
Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------
Proton Tl-12 Motorcycle
Displacment: 0.2 tons
Volume: 2.8m^3
Configuration: SL Disk
Dimensions: 2.5 meters long, 2.5 meters high by .51 meter wide. (approx.)
Structural Material: TL 11 Structurecomp
Chassis: Rated 1 G Acceleration
Armor: 0.3 cm of TL 11 structurecomp. 
Armor Rating: 1
Power Plant: 1.0 MW Fusion+
Fuel Consumption: 0.03m^3 water/100hrs
Fuel Volume: x1 enriched water.
Fuel Carried: 100hrs (.03m^3)
Propulsion: TL 8+ Wheels
Crew: 1
Options: Basic Life Support
         300km Small Vehicle Communicator
	 10km Multispectrum Sensor
	 TL-11 Anti-theft device
	 Ejection Seat (optional)
	 Smart Paint on all surfaces except for wheels.
Total Mass:1.657   
Total Price: 37,013Cr (137,013 w/ ejection seat)
Performance: .5g Acceleration. Top Speed 720kph. 1195m/turn.
Agility: No DM	                       

Description: The Proton motorcycle is powered by a 1.0MW fusion+
power plant. This immense power plant gives the Proton a top speed
surpassed only by gravitic vehicles.  The Proton carries no cargo
and is intended purely for pleasure driving.
     A transparent canopy encloses the rider. Without this, wind drag
would make the Proton impossible to control.  The Proton is equipped with
a multi-channel radio capable of communicating with up to 11 other vehicles.
This allows several Protons riders to talk while whizzing down the road.
The Proton features a 10km sensor suite capable of full night vision.
This system is essential to the Proton, at speeds of 700kph, you have
to know what's coming otherwise, you'll find out by crashing into it.
In case of a catastrophic accident, an optional ejection seat is 
available.   
      All Protons are available with Verotech's patented Smart Paint
system. This allows the owner to specify any sort of decorative pattern
or actual picture.  Many owners have several designs programed and actually
switch between designs while driving, as a means of communicating with other
vehicles.  

Slogans:
"Powered by the Atom."
"Anyone can fly a grav bike at several hundred feet above the ground, it
takes a real daredevil to do it when your face is a meter off the pavement."
"Feel the POWER!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:29:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Peter  H. Brenton wrote:
> You cant pre-deploy the sand, because manuvering will take you out of your
> own protective cloud..unless you bring the cloud with you.

I vaguely recall reading in the hardback edition of the C.T. rules, that
the particles in a sandcaster canister are composed of a substance
similiar to the active ingredient in ablative body armor ("ablat").
Perhaps this is a stupid idea, but why not just put a laser-resistant
ablative layer right on the ship's hull, rather than flinging it out into
space?
                                                              - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:59:46 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

> From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: *****THUDDD announcement!*****
> Date: Wednesday, February 05, 1997 9:15 PM

>         So... which classic Traveller ship are you dying to redesign? 
Let
> the list know!  At the moment the vote stands at 1 for the 600td
> "Basketball of Death" Merc Cruiser. This one might be worth doing since
we
> know that as it's presented in the T4 rule book it's broken, but
whatever.

"Judging" from the b&w of the Patrol Cruiser in MMT4, which is captioned as
400 tons, and the preceding UPP which is labeled and described as 200
tons...  I think it might bear some looking over; I have not run the
numbers, yet... though I recall it *always* being 400 tons...  But, I vote
for the "pleasure device of death"...

Merc Cruiser    1
Patrol Cruiser  1


david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 12:07:30 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] non-Spacecraft Weapon Design

rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott) asked:
> Are the weapon design rules going to be tweaked?

From the rest of your message, it appears that you're asking about the
personal-scale and vehicle-scale weapon design sequences.  The Naval
Architects' Handbook (at least as envisioned by Dave and the Beta list) will
no longer contain design sequences for these items.

Greg Porter created the T4 personal weapons, personal armor, and vehicle
design systems, and is the author of the _Emperor's Arsenal_ book (scheduled
to be published later this month by IG).  The Emperor's Arsenal should be a
112-page book.  Here's a "sneak preview" of some of the weapons:

Name                Penetration   TL  Range    Shots  Mass    Reload   Cost
Rclless rfl-6       21 (16 expl)  6   V.Short  1      13.4kg  5.2kg    Cr860
VRF machinegun-7     5            7   Medium   2000   70.0kg  48.6kg   Cr1800
LAW-8               23 (16 expl)  8   Short    1      9.1kg   6.5kg    Cr1100
Submachinegun-9      3            9   Short    100    3.0kg   1.4kg    Cr780
RF ACR-10            4            10  Short    250    3.4kg   1.1kg    Cr640
Snub SMG-11          5            11  Short    60     1.6kg   0.3kg    Cr960
Gauss sniper rfl-12  8            12  Long     10     10.4kg  2.1kg    KCr31.3
PCMP-12             19 (4 expl)   12  Medium   20     28.9kg  16.6kg   KCr24.5
PCMP-13             21 (5 expl)   13  Long     20     28.6kg  13.3kg   KCr45.0
Laser ACR-14         6            14  Long     50     4.5kg   1.7kg    Cr5200

Greg's own game company, BTRC (Blacksburg Tactical Research Center) publishes
a design system called _Guns, Guns, Guns_ (3G3) that (in it's latest edition)
can be used to design weapons for T4 (appropriate rules are included with 3G3);
more information is available from BTRC's web page, which is located at
    http://members.aol.com/btrc/ 

The NAH will include design sequences for spacecraft weapons, and will
probably incorporate some changes to those design sequences.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Absurd Silver Moon (JTAS 25)

In-Reply-To: <v02140b01af1c88fa60ab@[192.121.125.201]>

<< Have you folks noticed that Imperium Games either has no clue about 
how Traveller is supposed to work anymore or doesn't check contributions 
much. >>

Now that Marc is checking all the stuff, hopefully this will stop 
(although TBH I think there are probably people on here who know more 
about Traveller than he does...)

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 13:39:33 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Military Destroyer

Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com> asked:
> I'm looking at the "Military Destroyer" (apparently designed by Don Perrin
> himself?), published in "Starships," p. 60.  I've tried to use the existing
> write-up to work out the SSDS design of the vessel.  What design system
> produced the Destroyer?  Am I totally misreading the costs or rules for
> same in SSDS?

_Starships_ is unfortunately not a good source of examples for either ship
design system.  It's likely that the ship you are looking at (particularly
if it has no design credit) was designed using the TLAR ("That Looks About
Right") system, rather than SSDS and QSDS.

If you have any particular questions about starship design, I'll be happy to
answer them.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #920
**********************************
yyTraveller-digest     Thursday, February 6 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 921



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Mercenary Cruiser
THUDDD & TML Contests
[Traveller Answer] Sandcasters
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****
Shaped Vac Buster
Re: What are sandcasters?
TSR Rumours
sandcasters
Subject Headings for Traveller
Size of Death Star
Re; [Traveller Answer] non-Spacecraft Weapon Design
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****
Re: Minimum thruster volume
Destroyer Design

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 13:27:47 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Mercenary Cruiser

rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott) wrote:
> So... which classic Traveller ship are you dying to redesign?  Let
> the list know!  At the moment the vote stands at 1 for the 600td
> "Basketball of Death" Merc Cruiser.

I'll go with the Merc Cruiser ... but it's worth noting that the classic
version of this ship is 800dt.  Here's a shot at some specifications:

o Transport and deliver to an on-world combat area some number (I forget
  exactly, I don't have my references here at work, and besides we can ha=
ve
  this be one of the parameters that varies with each design) of light
  troops and their equipment (cargo space should be provided for equipmen=
t).
  The ship can be landing-capable, or depend on small craft to deliver tr=
oops.
  The troops may not be Marines, so drop capsules cannot be used to deliv=
er
  them to the world's surface.  If small craft are to be used, the cost o=
f
  the craft should be included in the cost of the design.
o Provide command-and-control facilities for the embarked unit.
o Provide ortillery (orbital artillery) fire support to the embarked unit.
o Provide basic support functions for the embarked unit.
o Provide adequate self-defense against enemy starships of approximately
  the same size class.
 =20
If you want to do designs that are particularly broken in the T4 rulebook=
,
take a look at the Patrol Cruiser.  Now _that_ one can stand to be re-don=
e.

wildstar@qrc.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
                      "Always use a piledriver to crack a nut.  The piled=
river
                       suffers little damage; the nut stays cracked."
                                        -- Maj General J D Lynch Jr USMC =
(Ret)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:07:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: THUDDD & TML Contests

Quoth Roderick Darroch Elliott:
>         By now you've probably seen my THUDDD announcement post; any
> suggestions as to what we should design first?

I concur with the Mercenary Cruiser suggestion.  However, I don't think w=
e
should specify to the degree of "800 ton" (or 600, depending on your
reading of the rules and history) ship: part of the charm of the recent
TML contest was the range of sizes and capabilities that came up.  It
would be interesting to see, say, a dirt-cheap bunk-equipped transport fo=
r
a battalion of infantry, compared to a highly-tuned fighter- and tank-
carrying spinal-mount-equipped menace carrying only a small cadre force.=20
Some ships might be designed to be deployed in groups (sold to larger mer=
c
companies desiring high configurability, or to colonial forces), while
others would be an all-in-one high-value egg-basket.

While I'm at it, will there be a February TML Challenge?  We've done
artwork for the main rulebook, starship design inspired by the second
publication...  looks to me like it's time either for a VDS design contes=
t
(now that CSC is out) or, in a much "fuzzier" vein, though giving a much
different feel and probably attracting a much different audience, an alie=
n
design competition to describe a new minor race in the style of AA.

What d'ya say, Joe?

- ----------------------------*------------------------*-----------------=
-------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga u=
ser,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scho=
lar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 14:02:52 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [Traveller Answer] Sandcasters

Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> asks:
> Just how do sandcasters work?

Sandcasters fire a "can" of highly refractive particles, coloquially call=
ed
"sand" by spacers.  When the enemy laser beam hits these particles, some
of the energy is dispersed via refraction.  The particles can't handle th=
e
intensity of a weapon-grade laser beam for long, and eventually vaporise
(using up more the energy of the enemy's shot) until finally the enemy
laser "burns through" the sand cloud.

> But heres the problem: they're an active defence.
> How do they detect the incoming laserbeam?

Nothing quite so complicated as your suggestions.  Space combat turns are
long (in the T4 basic starship combat, they're 10 minutes; in the highly
recommended Role-Playing Space Combat system, they're 30 minutes).

Laser weapons are assumed to be firing continously during that time; spac=
e
combat ranges are so great (and the uncertainty of the target's position =
and
motion are large enough) that most of these shots miss.  Even in space, a
near miss can be detected several ways by the target ship.  This will all=
ow
the target to get a 'can' of sand in the way of the next shot.  The (slig=
ht)
possibility that the laser will hit with the first pulse is ignored by th=
e
sandcaster rules, in the interest of simplicity.

> 1) They are in fact a passive defence.

It should be possible to use sand this way, but there
are currently no rules for doing so.

> 2) Laser weapons require the target to be illuminated by a lower power
> targeting beam and the sandcaster fires in response to this.

Any weapon that's controlled by a Master Fire Director (MFD; in QSDS, all
"military" weapon systems use MFDs) does indeed have a targetting (laser =
or
radar) beam.  Detecting this beam would certainly alert a ship that it wa=
s
under attack, and give an indication of the right direction to launch the
sand.

> 3) Sandcasters have some form of FTL detection apperatus

Definitely not.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adve=
nture
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:29:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Hi.

> From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>

> I vaguely recall reading in the hardback edition of the C.T. rules, tha=
t
> the particles in a sandcaster canister are composed of a substance
> similiar to the active ingredient in ablative body armor ("ablat").
> Perhaps this is a stupid idea, but why not just put a laser-resistant
> ablative layer right on the ship's hull, rather than flinging it out in=
to
> space?
>                                                               - J. Rayn=
or

You are exacly right. There is no way that ablative sand could ever be
more effective than ablative armor, and there are lots of problems that
will make ablative sand FAR inferior to ablative armor.

The one advantage I can think of that sand may have is of refraction and
light scattering. If the sand is far enough away from the ship, the
scattering of the laser beam at small angles will tend to diffuse the
beam, rendering it harmless. This is something that armor cannot do.
This may, in fact, be a substantial advantage; in my campaign, I use
this explanation for how sand works against lasers.

Against missiles, I say it works like our modern day CIWS phalanxes,
merokas, etc.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:02:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzum@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Andrew Vallance wrote:

>I've been thinking about how the various weapons
>work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
>I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
>what I understand they work by physically placing
>a large number of smallish highly refractive
>particles in the path of a laser; and they also
>work against missiles by acting as a physical
>barrier. Seems simple enough, a giant shotgun
>sort of weapon (a comment in Striker about their
>use as an antipersonnel weapon seems to bear this
>out).
>

Good question!  From looking back into the CT, HG and MT rules all of you=
r
statements seem correct.  Looking at the MT rules, sand casters would be =
a
great defense against a battle dress equiped boarding party, but I cann't=
 find
any better explanation about their usage in combat.

Anyone else?

PZ

- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:31:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzum@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

>too late and they get some shots off... but yet again OTOH, they'd make
>good anti-fighter defenses; a fast pass through a cloud of sand would
>probably cramp a fighter's style some.
>
>        Actually, the more I think about it the more I think that
>Sandcasters are interesting weapons systems.  Lots of implications, not =
the
>least of which would be that firing them off in traffic lanes is probabl=
y
>illegal :).  Spent sand would be a helluva space junk hazard...
>

Not a bad thought to use against fighters at close quarters, but I'm not =
sure
that the particles would be strong enough to cause damage compared to the
strength of a starship hull.  MT gave sandcasters a penetration of 20 aga=
inst
ground targets as compared to the standard armor value of an unarmored
starship, which I believe to be 40.  This wouldn't be enough to make any
difference during any one combat situation, but may eventually cause enou=
gh
damage over several battles to warrant hull repairs.

PZ


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:37:35 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

How about this?

Within the control system of the sandcaster, there is a predictive
targeting system that feeds from the sensor array. This tries to "reverse
engineer" the target solution that the enemy vessel will be generating,
using the knowledge of where vessel is going, and running a modified lase=
r
target program. The sandcaster is thus fired like a laser, but the math i=
s
backwards?!

I think that the distances, speeds etc. mess up the target beam idea. (I
vaguely remember a long article in Challenge/Brilliant Lances that went
into great depth on the laser targeting solution's problems...anyone?)
Perhaps the 'caster can detect the wave front of the laser (if the start =
is
initially low powered).

- -Dom-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 12:28:15 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

<<deleted kazoo fanfares and THUDDD Mission Statement>>
>=20
>         Step one is determining which classic ship we're going to take =
a
> stab at redesigning.  So, first off, let's have a vote:  what would peo=
ple
> like to work on first?  Ethan Henry has suggested that we do the 600 td
> Mercenary Cruiser.=20

I thought the merc cruiser was 800 tons, but register my howl of
agreement with Mr. Henry.

<<schedule deletia>>

Works for me; but how about this: Redesign the classical designs for a
variety of tech levels, say from 10-11 to 15.
>=20
>         Hopefully, we'll all have fun, see multiple perspectives on wha=
t a
> given sort of ship should look like and do, further explore the
> implications of its mission requirement, and get a whole bunch of USDs =
with
> which we can make our game universes a little more varied.

The absolutely best part of the contest: variety!
>=20
>         So... which classic Traveller ship are you dying to redesign?  =
Let
> the list know!  At the moment the vote stands at 1 for the 600td
> "Basketball of Death" Merc Cruiser. This one might be worth doing since=
 we
> know that as it's presented in the T4 rule book it's broken, but whatev=
er.
> You guys call it.

Let's fix the "Basketbal O' Death!"

- --=20
- --Rich Ostorero		http://home.inreach.com/lordbasl/index.html
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 97 16:26:38 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Shaped Vac Buster

>> Actually, I have a weapon that will beup on my weapons=20
page (coming the next  day or two) that is a shaped charge=20
with a sensor that only detonates  against soft targets. =20
It won't breach a wall, but it will splatter a Vacc  Suit.. <<

Mmm-mm! Fired from a popgun sort of thing, I assume?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 00:27:20 -0800
From: JayStr <jaystr@best.com>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

A couple alternatives spring to mind. (Wouldn't use the
FTL-interceptor-thingy if I were you -- too millieu-upsetting, unless
you already have FTL-comm in your campaign).

Any weapon is directed by the sensors of the battery firing it; with
stellar-tech targeting computers, it ought to be easy to detect and
anticipate the arrival of the weapon by detecting the signature of the
beam pointer. In the case of active sensors, you have the signature of
the sensors themselves, in which case it should come as no surprise that
YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET SHOT AT. In the case of passive sensors, you can
pick up the arrival of the missiles optically from the IR sig, and
lasers simply get intercepted just AFTER they arrive and are buried
under tons of refractive debris before they can do anything more than
leave scorch marks on the paint.

If that still doesn't satisfy your sense of realism, just say that ALL
weapons systems 'sample' the target just a few milliseconds prior to
impact. Lasers would scan the target with a very quick lo-intensity beam
prior to cranking up the power enough to do damage, while even
passive-guidance missiles would be assumed to carry some sort of
terminal guidance sensor that would do the same thing.

This is a game. It is a game involving bullshittium technologies that
are extrapolations of extrapolations of educated-to-wild guesses. I can
whip up three or four realistic-sounding entries for the Unified Theory
Of Bullshittium Point Defenses just off the top of my head, and so can
anybody else. As long as we maintain a reasonable degree of internal
consistency, WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO. My ultimate advice is to
simply make something up that sounds OK to you, and don't let anybody
indignantly insist that it's not 'realistic' enough.

- -- Jay Stranahan

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 97 16:26:36 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TSR Rumours

>> AND the rumor I got was that T$R, quite recently, had to=20
give Gary Gygax  a big chunk of $ due to royalties they=20
owed him (or LW owed him) for  their premire game system. =20
Which is kinda nice IF Gary was the one of  the factors=20
that put them in their financial straits. <<

I hope so. Like or loathe his game systems (like your=20
parents really!), there was a dude who was royally shat=20
upon by faceless suits. I wouldn't care if he'd written the=20
bloody awful Warsaw Concerto; I'd still side up against the=20
suits!

>> Subject: Batteries and Naval Architecture    It occurs=20
to me that many military spacecraft, particularly small=20
ones,  might be designed to only be able to operate for a=20
very limited length of  time.  [...] Such  a vessel would=20
only need to fire its energy weapons a few times, and =20
wouldn't need to keep its defensive screens energized for=20
very long,  either.  [...] Perhaps  I'm allowing myself to=20
be tainted by space opera - I'm thinking of  something=20
along the lines of that suicidal Orion raiding ship in an=20
old  "Star Trek" episode, or the "primary beams" of the=20
Lensman series...  <<

My version of the design sequence (hasn't everybody?) has=20
two durations; "cruising" which calculates endurance based=20
on about half gs, no guns, screens, EM-mask etc, and=20
"combat" with everything. "Cruising" usually makes up to=20
the old CT "four weeks manuever" and "combat" sometimes=20
comes down to hours, but it keeps your fuel reqs down.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:46:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Dedly@aol.com
Subject: sandcasters

My understanding of sandcasters from CT was that they were indeed a passi=
ve
defense. Cannisters would be launced in anticipation of laser fire. The
"sand" was an ablative material that created a cloud which absorbed incom=
ing
laser weapon fire but got used up in the process, like the Ablat personne=
l
armor. I never saw any evidence to indicate if the whole cloud got used u=
p
with just one shot or more. I also don't know how long the cloud would st=
ay
cohesive enough to remain effective.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when the cannister is launched it w=
ill
have a vector similar to that of the ship. If the ship suddenly changes
course, it will lose the protective cover of the sand as the cloud will
continue on its course or disperses.

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 56 14:28:38 -0000
From: Jason Doell <jdoell@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Subject Headings for Traveller

I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to=20
have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated=20
mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV=20
:Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.) It would be easy I believe for the=20
sys admin of this mailing list to insert this in all outgoing mail that=20
we recieve from it. It would make it so much easier for a lot of us who=20
recieve mail from more than one mailing list. I am involoved in 4 mailing=
=20
lists and the only one that has a problem is this one because of all the=20
conditions that I have to indicate to my e-mail program for these=20
Traveller postings to be put in the right folder. It plays havoc with the=
=20
rest of my mail. All my other mailing lists have this feature. Perhaps we=
=20
could make it MMT4 or TRV or something to indicate that this is from=20
Traveller.=20

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Jason Doell - Univ. of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon Canada,=20
<jdoell@eagle.wbm.ca>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 97 16:26:34 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Size of Death Star

>> Maybe 20 miles...    > Someone around here I'm  > sure=20
has the proper Star Wars RPG sourcebook with the correct=20
answer.    That'd be the "official" answer. That doesn't=20
mean that it is  *correct*. Mine was based on *measuring*.=20
The official sizes of the  Falcon are rather silly in=20
places. Why should the Death Star be any  different? <<

IIRC it's 120km across. This is relevant, because I've just=20
lobbed my PCs through a Giant Orange Whirly Thing In Space=20
(tm) into Star Wars territory - Endor in fact. I'm running=20
the resulting game under Traveller (MT to be exact) but=20
culling from the SW books. <Comments about the infinitely=20
better quality of these can be assumed here>.

It's fun; Han, Chewie, those bloody robots are all dead;=20
Luke is a blind cripple. The DS has been blown but both the=20
Emperor and Darth escaped. Our two PCs include a Zhodani=20
jump trooper. His reaction to Darth's PSI aura was a real sight!

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]
| Hugh Foster                                 100326,446       |
|   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Hugh_Foster     |
| Ideals kill some men in politics, but politics kill more     |
| ideals in men.                                               |
[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 00:52:46 -0800
From: JayStr <jaystr@best.com>
Subject: Re; [Traveller Answer] non-Spacecraft Weapon Design

Looks great.... but how do the damage/pen stats translate to starship
damage? (RANT ALERT)

What about the heart-warming wholesale orbital bombardment? Calling fire
from the mother ship down on the bad guys in their APC's? Trapped in the
cargo hold of a doomed vessel, and need to carve your way out using the
plasma gun on a hovertank? Killer satellites? COACC fighters attacking
enemy grav fighters in the upper atmosphere? Firing a VRF gauss gun
inside an unarmored ship's hull? Don't nobody tell me that this sort of
thing isn't going to come up with mind-bending regularity.=20

We need a rule of thumb -- preferably in the form of a nice simple 10/1
or 100/1 ratio. If that isn't bullshittium, I ah, ahem, I mean realistic
enough ("but gee, they do DIFFERENT sorts of damage, and you like need
to take into account the toughness and slope of the material and like
whether or not it's being fired in a vacuum"), then publish each weapon
with different damage and penetration for Starship combat. If it doesn't
do any, then say so. Having a formula or formulae to recalc the stats on
the spot, or to refigure it permanantly for each weapon or vehicle, is
simply not acceptable. Nobody will use it. People buy games to play, not
to be given work to do that the game designer should have done to begin
with.

After a frustrating week of trying to make sense of the VDS Steps that
refer you to other steps that are buried in the text a few paragraphs
back that refer to things that are in other portions of the book
(computers) or to things in other books (armor), and then finding out
that none of it was compatible with the rest of the game at any event, I
simply gave up. IG is now under interdict. I have told Derek -- and am
now telling all of you -- that I am not going to buy anything more from
them until I have been assured that it makes sense From now on, IG is
under interdict. I will not buy a frigging thing from them until
somebody with some common sense has told me that it actually makes sense
to a non-game-geek with an ordinary calculator and that each component
or system can be designed in a single step and that the instructions for
doing so are ON THE SAME F***ING PAGE.

- -- Jay Stranahan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:49:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Robert Flammang wrote:
>=20
> The one advantage I can think of that sand may have is of refraction an=
d
> light scattering. If the sand is far enough away from the ship, the
> scattering of the laser beam at small angles will tend to diffuse the
> beam, rendering it harmless. This is something that armor cannot do.
> This may, in fact, be a substantial advantage; in my campaign, I use
> this explanation for how sand works against lasers.

	This points out another VERY large advantage...this lets you SEE
the lasers that are being fired at you. Remember...lasers in a vaccuum ar=
e
invisible, until you're hit by them. Having a cloud of
reflective/refractive particles out there would serve the same function a=
s
fog machines at a concert...it really enhances the visibility of the
lasers in the light show.

	This leads to another conclusion, namely, that there are probably
at least two kinds of sandcaster charges available, tracking and
protective. tracking will spread out to a large cloud which will alow
rapid tracking as the beams pass through, followed by the protective
canisters, which would be deployed in a denser cloud closer to the ship.


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:10:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

  My vote is for one of the Trader ships (Free, Far, or Fat variety), wit=
h
a preference for the Far Trader.  My characters spent more time in these
than any other type, so it would be interesting to see what folks might
come up with as alternatives.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 17:20:13 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Minimum thruster volume

At 08:04 PM 2/4/97 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>On 02/04/97 at 02:29 PM,  "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> said:
>
>> >12+ Thrusters  100 tons  5.0   3.0     1.0   2.5    0.600  power plan=
t
>> fuel
>
>> The Table in CSC/VDS list Thruster plates as having a thrust of 40tons=
,
>> power of 1Mw, mass of 2tons, and a cost of .25MCr.
>
>Ah, the power of a selective quote. <g>
>

Yes very true<g>

>Refering to the table on page 64 of CDC, Thurster Plates also have a
>minimum volume of 10m3 and a minimum thrust of 400t.  "While the minimum
>volume is a solid lower boundary, the thrust can be manipulated to lower
>levels..."
>
>I think you're going to have to up your missile size if you want to use
>thruster plates *and* stay official.
>

But "Official/Canon" to which rules set? CSC allowes Grav Comp Stacking b=
ut
FFS does not. ContraGrav limit in CSC is 1 diameter but other rule books
allow more.

Right know things are about as "Canon" as a soup sandwich is nice to eat.=
<g>

But since you asked nicely I will post a "Legal" Thruster Plate missile,
get your vomit bags ready though, these designs are not for faint at hear=
t.<G>

Look for the "Bubba" and "Little Bubba" missiles/torpedos coming soon
brought to you by Reddkneck Arms and Munitions ak "RAM" when you need to
destroy that warship "Ram Em".

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:46:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Destroyer Design

Well, I've put my money (hopefully not my foot!) where my mouth is, and
revised the Military Destroyer in "Starships" to something more in
accordance with the SSDS rules, but keeping as close to the original as
possible.  I'd love to be told where I went wrong or where improvements
are necessary or possible (I've included one thought along those lines
below).

So, without further ado....


The Imperial Data Package (IDP) describing the standard Military Destroye=
r
Arrived at Jackson Downport in a garbled state.  Due to our great distanc=
e
from the Imperial core, a second courier request was impractical.  So LTD
(Luwas, Tsefe, and Drummond, Naval Architects) was called upon to attempt
to untangle the existing plans and specifications, remaining as close as
possible to what remained of the original design.  Below is our corrected
design prospectus for the Battle-class Imperial Destroyer.

LTD CFO Joseph Lockett notes that, for local production at least, he woul=
d
recommend reducing gunnery staff by five (perhaps thus enlarging the meag=
er
Marine presence) and reassigning the heavy laser turret batteries to rati=
ng
"5 x LsrTur Battery - 4,2,0,0."  "The ship as it stands," stated Lockett,
"is for swatting flies or swingeing gnats, not for bringing true Imperial
power to bear on pirates or foreign aggressors."  A fast courier has been
dispatched to Imperial Navy Headquarters on Sylea with LTD's findings.


BATTLE Class Military Destroyer

Tons: 1000              Volume: 14,000                     Cost in MCr: 1=
240
Crew:   45 + 6          Passengers:  0                     Low Passengers=
: 0
Cargo:  15              Controls: Mil Std /bridge /fib     Tech Level:   =
 12

 9  Size Rating                                  3 Jump Drive Rating
 4  Fire Control Rating                          3 G Rating Thruster Plat=
es
 2 x LsrBay Battery - 3,3,3,2                    4 Power Plant Rating
 4 x MslTur Battery 20 (20)                    322 Fuel Rating /S /R
10 x LsrTur Battery - 2,1,0,0                    5 (150) Sand Caster Rati=
ng
                                               10A 4P 10J Sensor Rating
Ship's Boat in Minimal Hangar                   10 Armor   18 Structure


    Battle-class Imperial Destroyers are named, reasonably enough, for
famous conflicts fought in Sylean, Solomani, and Vilani history: ships in
service include Agincourt, Abannol, Bunker Hill, Kamiiga, and Velpare.=20
The ship's jump range surpasses all Sylea's near neighbors' capabilities,
and its 3G of continuous thruster-plate acceleration allow pursuit of mos=
t
targets.  Large fuel scoops allow full refuelling from wilderness sources
in one hour, and the onboard purification plant can process a full load i=
n
a mere six, allowing fast turnaround for patrols or pickets.  The ship's
panoply of weapons allows a wide range of response to provocations, and
several Imperial Marines are aboard, to serve as boarding parties or
elements of a prize crew.  The boat hangar may be reconfigured to carry
one or two of Sylea's prized space fighters, though the marine contingent
would then be forced to make ship-to-ship transfers in vacuum.=20

     On-board accomodations are well-suited to long patrols.  All Naval
crew department heads receive private large staterooms (including office
space).  The remainder of the crew receive individual small staterooms,
except for the sixteen most junior members (usually members of the Gunner=
y
and Engineering departments), who must double up.  Some commentators have
remarked on the high-passage-quality space alloted to the onboard marine
detachment, but the bulk of it is alloted to training spaces to keep the
troops in fighting trim.  The marine accomodations also provide separate
mess and leisure facilities, since conflicts between the socially more
lofty Naval personnel and their more plebeian Marine crewmembers have
proved problematic on previous designs of vessel.=20


Imperial Military Destroyer: WORKSHEET

Component          Mass    Volume   Area    Power  Price
AF Wedge Hull (75m)        14,000.0  5460.0
     3G Bracing      135.0     -9.0     0.0    0.0   0.1
     Armor 50       2925.0   -195.0     0.0    0.0   4.1
     Airlocks x10      2.0    -30.0   -20.0   -0.0   0.1
Jump-3 Drive        1680.0   -560.0  -187.0    0.0 168.0
     Jump fuel: 3pc  294.0  -4200.0     0.0    0.0   1.5
TPlates (30,000t)   1500.0   -750.0  -150.0 -750.0 187.5
2,100 MW Fusion     4200.0  -1050.0 -2100.0 2100.0 210.0
     Fuel for 1yr     22.1   -315.0     0.0    0.0   0.0
Fuel Plant           560.0   -280.0     0.0   -4.2   0.1
LsrBay x2            735.2  -1400.0   -94.0 -395.4  66.8
HvyMslTur x4         281.6   -336.0   -64.0   -0.6   0.4
HvyLsrTur x10       1396.9   -840.0  -160.0 -697.0  24.3
SndCtrTur x5         250.0   -210.0   -50.0   -5.0   4.0
MFD x19              590.9   -486.4   -57.0  -58.9 486.4
Basic Controls         1.5    -15.4     0.0   -1.1   1.7
Mil. Electronics      55.4    -37.9  -288.0 -106.8  74.9
Standard Life Spt      8.0     -8.0     0.0   -0.2   0.5
Antigrav/InComp      280.0   -140.0     0.0  -70.0   7.0
Hangar, Minimal      168.0   -840.0   -85.0    0.0   0.3
15 tons cargo         15.0   -210.0     0.0    0.0   0.0
Small cargo hatch      0.0      0.0   -12.0    0.0   0.0
Fuel scoops            0.0      0.0 -2000.0    0.0   0.2
Fuel Plant (700/6h)  560.0   -280.0     0.0   -4.2   0.1
Bridge Stations x13    2.6   -182.0     0.0    0.0   0.0
Workstation x1 (En)    0.2     -7.0     0.0    0.0   0.0
Marine Quarters       24.0   -336.0     0.0   -0.0   0.6
Lg Staterooms x8      32.0   -448.0     0.0   -0.0   0.8
Sm Staterooms x21     42.0   -588.0     0.0   -0.0   0.8
Sm Staterooms x8      16.0   -224.0     0.0   -0.0   0.3
TOTALS:            15777.4     22.3   193.0    6.6 1240.

Fuel scoops occupy 36.6% of vessel surface
  so it scoops 100% of fuel in one hr

Crew: Maintenance 3, Engineering 10, Electronics 3,
      Gunnery 21, Maneuver 2, Command 6, Marines 8=B8

- ----------------------------*------------------------*-----------------=
-------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga u=
ser,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scho=
lar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #921
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 6 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 922



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Broadsword class Merc Cruiser
Re: What are sandcasters?
THUDDD voting so far...
Re: Proton Motorcycle Design.
Re: What are sandcasters?
RE: THUDDD
Re: Mercenary Cruiser
Re: THUDD
Re: things
Re: things
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: THUDDD voting so far...
OT: Happy Fun Ball (was RE: THUDDD)
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: Aramis/Spinward Marches again!
Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: non-Spacecraft Weapon Design
Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****
Sandcasters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:59:33 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: Re: Broadsword class Merc Cruiser

I still like the idea of painting a Tigris class DN bright yellow
but nobody in that era would get the reference

"Wokka...Wokka...Wokka...BOOM"

I suppose you could paint a broadsword Neon Blue or use the Chameleon
Hull display

"Your the Captain of the INS Blinky?"

The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:01:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzum@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

John P. Raynor wrote

>I vaguely recall reading in the hardback edition of the C.T. rules, that
>the particles in a sandcaster canister are composed of a substance
>similiar to the active ingredient in ablative body armor ("ablat").
>Perhaps this is a stupid idea, but why not just put a laser-resistant
>ablative layer right on the ship's hull, rather than flinging it out into
>space?
>

Could this be one of those cases where the "defense in depth" works better than
a thick wall?  Just throwing out an idea.

PZ


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:55:43 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD voting so far...

All right... here's where we stand on ship class so far:


Merc Cruiser: 4     Far Trader: 1     Corsair: 2     Heavy Fighter: 1
Patrol Cruiser: 1

Note that classes are not limited; feel free to star voting for a 5,000 td
tanker if y'all like...

        Voting closes on Sunday 9 February 1997, at which point we either
debate a mission requirement or go directly to the design phase, depending
on the ship we pick.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:55:40 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Proton Motorcycle Design.

Lewis Roberts wrote:

>
>Hi,
>Here is the first vehicle I designed with the new system in the CSC.
>I like the system, it is definetly cheaper to build things than in
>FFS.
>Lewis Roberts
[brutally cool bike design snipped]
>"Feel the POWER!"


        It's really too bad that I'm not taking my PC's anywhere there are
roads anytime soon: I shudder at the thought of what they could get up to
on one of those...  Good one!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:55:46 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

>
>On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Andrew Vallance wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking about how the various weapons
>> work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
>> I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
>> what I understand they work by physically placing
>> a large number of smallish highly refractive
>> particles in the path of a laser; and they also
>> work against missiles by acting as a physical
>> barrier. Seems simple enough, a giant shotgun
>[snip]
>
>You cant pre-deploy the sand, because manuvering will take you out of your
>own protective cloud..unless you bring the cloud with you.


        Right; however, if you don't maneuver, the cloud will just travel
along beside you indefinetely...

        Something else that ought to be looked into is the effect of sand
on sensors; does it act like chaff?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:55:50 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: RE: THUDDD

Commander X wrote:


[snip]
>
>Behold!  I persent the coveted Golden X-TEK Buscuit! ;->
>
>(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)
>  >           X-TEK            <
>(__________________)
>
>(It's supposed to look like a Milkbone Biscuit)


        It is indeed, errr... lovely, and will serve as a coveted trophy
for generations of THUDDD designers hence.  The adminstration of the THUDDD
wishes to extend its most sincere appreciation of X-TEK's corporate
generosity!


[snip]
>
>That is why we play this game for, right, FUN?


        Well, actually, I play it because I like tormenting my players...
so yeah, you're right :).


[snippage]
>I will give but one secret to an old design I had for the TRUE HFB Merc
>Design
>Do you realy need 2 50 ton mod cutters, or could you drop one and mayhaps
>make some room for lets say, a 50 to BAY WEAPON?  loose both and you get a
>100 ton bay!  Now stick a 100 ton PA bay or something in there.  Now do you
>know why we don't taunt the Happy Fun Ball?  );->   <---- the devil made me
>do it!


        You're beginning to worry me :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:55:33 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Mercenary Cruiser

At 13:27 2/6/97, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott) wrote:
>> So... which classic Traveller ship are you dying to redesign?  Let
>> the list know!  At the moment the vote stands at 1 for the 600td
>> "Basketball of Death" Merc Cruiser.
>
>I'll go with the Merc Cruiser ... but it's worth noting that the classic
>version of this ship is 800dt.  Here's a shot at some specifications:
>
>o Transport and deliver to an on-world combat area some number (I forget
>  exactly, I don't have my references here at work, and besides we can have
>  this be one of the parameters that varies with each design) of light
>  troops and their equipment (cargo space should be provided for equipment).
>  The ship can be landing-capable, or depend on small craft to deliver troops.
>  The troops may not be Marines, so drop capsules cannot be used to deliver
>  them to the world's surface.  If small craft are to be used, the cost of
>  the craft should be included in the cost of the design.
>o Provide command-and-control facilities for the embarked unit.
>o Provide ortillery (orbital artillery) fire support to the embarked unit.
>o Provide basic support functions for the embarked unit.
>o Provide adequate self-defense against enemy starships of approximately
>  the same size class.
>
>If you want to do designs that are particularly broken in the T4 rulebook,
>take a look at the Patrol Cruiser.  Now _that_ one can stand to be re-done.


        Coolness...  Methinks that if we go with the Merc Cruiser I'll
simply repost these as the specs.  It'll save us some time.

        And thanks for the weapon design answer...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:55:36 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: THUDD

Lewis Roberts wrote:

>
>I have a few questions on how this is supposed to work.  Say we are all
>supposed to design a Merc Cruiser.  What are the design parameters,
>What CT had,MT had, or TNE had or any ship that has the same name.  ie
>Are we all going to end up building 600ton Spherical ships with J1 G1
>(or whatever the correct stats as given in CT are)  It doesn't seem
>like there is much room for creativity there.


        Well, basically, there are a few options; either spend a week
hashing out a statement of mission requirements before we get into the
design phase...  Or we can simply use the brief description in the T4
manual...  Or, if we go for the Merc Cruiser, Guy Garnett was kind enough
to send me a mission requirement that makes sense.

        And no; if you want to build a 1000td J3 G6 airframe needle for
lugging mercs about, go right ahead.  You will of course be judged by your
peers on the result :).


>
>What I would suggest is that we make up TL-12 ships that accomplish the
>same task, ie in the case of the Merc Cruiser carrying a small group of
>mercenaries to their destination and landing them.


        Absolutely...  I'd forgotten about specifying TL.  I'll do so when
I announce the design phase.  I think that as we're using T4, TL-12 should
be de rigeur...


>
>As for suggestions for which ships to make. I thought that IG was
>redoing many of the ships in Starships, so that they actually follow
>the rules.   But I guess we can do the same.  I would suggest redoing
>the small craft first. They are most obviously broken.  Its a real
>challenge making small craft below TL-12, because Fusion plants are so
>big.  You really have to use Fission, or fuel cells.  You certainly can
>not make the Tl-9 4G ships that are in Starships.
>
>I'd vote for redoing the Heavy Fighter from Starships.
>
>Lewis Roberts

        Hokay... vote noted.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 17:05:21 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: things

At 01:25 PM 2/6/97 -0800, you wrote:
>This is going to cover several things.                                       
>1/ I was reffing character generation for T4 the other night and two problems 
>came up.First-you can only go to Commando School if you`re a graduate of 
>Military Academy,this means all Commandoes are officers,a completely false 
>situation.

No, only officers get to go to the cool, year-long course.  I tend to let my
players defienwhat happened during their carrers, guided by what skills they
ended up with.

If you want your Army First Sergeant to be a retired Commando, and he has
the skills to back it up, let him!


>2/ When is the Milieu zero sourcebook coming out?More importantly,when is the 
>Emperor`s Arsenal coming out?  

Real Soon and April.Mayish, IIRC.                                              

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:07:32 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: things

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Neil Simpson wrote:

> This is going to cover several things.                                       
> 1/ I was reffing character generation for T4 the other night and two problems 
> came up.First-you can only go to Commando School if you`re a graduate of 
> Military Academy,this means all Commandoes are officers,a completely false 
> situation.

I won't comment on this other than to say that the Sylean (later, 
Imperial) military probably shouldn't be constrained to contemporary 
military methodologies.  Maybe it's wrong to have all Commandoes as 
graduates of Military Academies anyway, but I thought I'd throw that 
thought out.


> Second-where are the ammo prices? Why does the cp-03 pistol cost 500 
> credits more on p74 than on p80?                                             

Both are probably examples of the editing problems in T4.  At any rate, 
I've been told that the price of the cP003 is correct on p 80.  As for 
ammo costs, I'll put a system designed by Greg Porter for figuring ammo 
costs at the end of this message.


> 2/ When is the Milieu zero sourcebook coming out?

I have been told that it will begin shipping next week.


> More importantly, when is the Emperor`s Arsenal coming out?

As far as I know, it will begin shipping at the end of this month.


And now, the ammo cost system (which I understand will be in Emperor's 
Arsenal, although this is a beta test version which Greg came up with a 
few weeks ago, so it may be changed in the final volume).


Ammunition costs
================

None of the weapons in Traveller, Central Supply Catalog or Emporer's
Arsenal have ammunition mass and cost explicitly listed. Unless
characters are constructing an ammo dump or are so poor that reloads are
a major part of the budget, it shouldn't be a major concern. If you want
general guidelines on how much various reloads mass and cost, see below.

Mass - Ammunition is usually listed and sold in 50 round quantities. The
mass for one round is generally:
     
     ((Penetration + 1)/(13 - Penetration)-8))4 kilograms 

with a base minimum of:

     (Penetration/200)kg per round.


Because we don't actually expect you to figure this out every time, see
the following table:

(Figures are rounded to the nearest 2 digits or .1kg)

Pen.    Mass(50 Rds)   Pen.    Mass(10 Rds)   Pen.    Mass (1 Rd)
 1         .3kg         9          4.8kg       17        26kg
 2         .5kg        10           10kg       18        32kg
 3         .8kg        11           21kg       19        39kg
 4        1.0kg        12           44kg       20        47kg
 5        1.3kg        13           94kg       21        57kg
 6        2.4kg        14          124kg       22        68kg
 7        5.3kg        15          160kg       23        81kg
 8         11kg        16          200kg       24        95kg

Modifiers
APDS ammunition               x.5 mass
TL9+ ammunition (caseless)    x.5 mass
Rockets                       x1 mass (do not use caseless modifier on
                                 rockets)
HE ammunition                 x.5 mass
HEAP or HEDP ammunition       x.25 mass (use only one of HEAP or HE)
Multiple proj. (shotgun)      x2 mass
Guided weapon                 x2 mass

Example - Lets say you want 50 rounds of TL12 APDS ammunition with a
Penetration of 5. The base mass is 1.3kg, times .5 for APDS, and times
.5 again for TL9+ ammunition, for a total of .325kg, rounding to .3kg.

Example - You need to know how much each HEAP reload for a Penetration
27 TL8 cannon is. This is off the table so you have to figure it out.
The base mass is 150kg, times .25 for HEAP ammunition is 37.5kg,
rounding to 38kg.

Now, these don't exactly match the figures given for reloads for each
weapon in Emporer's Arsenal, but are close enough for most purposes. For
most applications, just use the mass of a listed weapon reload, since
when you are on the move, what you can transport is the important part.
On the other hand, if you are buying in bulk and want to ship or store
the stuff in a limited amount of volume, use the figures from this
table. Bulk ammunition has a mass of 3 metric tons per cubic meter for
shipping purposes.

Cost - Now this is more near and dear to most character's credit
accounts. The basic cost per round for most ammunition is ((Penetration
+ 2)/10)3 Cr per round. As for mass, you don't have to figure this out:

Pen.   Cost (50 Rds)      Pen.    Cost(10 Rds)      Pen.   Cost (1 Rd)
 1         Cr1.4           9         Cr13            17      Cr6.9
 2         Cr3.2           10        Cr17            18      Cr8.0
 3         Cr6.3           11        Cr22            19      Cr9.3 
 4         Cr11            12        Cr27            20      Cr11
 5         Cr17            13        Cr34            21      Cr12
 6         Cr26            14        Cr41            22      Cr14
 7         Cr36            15        Cr49            23      Cr16
 8         Cr50            16        Cr58            24      Cr18

Modifiers
Previous TL surplus ammo      x.25 cost (but makes weapon automatically
                                   unreliable)
APDS ammunition, TL8-         x6 cost
APDS ammunition, TL9+         x3 cost
TL9+ ammunition (caseless)    x2 cost
Rockets                       x4 cost (do not use caseless modifier on
                                 rockets)
HE ammunition                 x3 cost 
HEAP or HEDP ammunition       x5 cost (use only one of HE or HEAP)
Multiple proj. (shotgun)      x2 cost
Guided weapon                 x4 cost per DM+1, minimum base cost of Cr5
Proximity fuzed only          x2 cost or +Cr5, whichever is more
Buying in lots of 1000+       x.8 cost
Buying in lots of 10000+      x.6 cost
Availability/legality         x what the market will bear

Example - You need some APDS reloads for a TL8 Penetration 21 cannon.
The base cost is Cr21, times 6 for APDS ammunition is Cr126 each.

Example - You need reloads for a TL7 Penetration 19 shoulder fired HEAP
rocket launcher. The base cost is Cr9.3, times 4 for a rocket, times 5
for HEAP is Cr186 each.

Example - You have a TL13 cannon firing caseless guided HEAP rounds with
a DM+3 and a Penetration of 28. The base cost is Cr27, times 2 for
caseless ammunition, times 5 for HEAP, times 4 three times for the
guided bonus is Cr17,280 per shot. Make them count...

As with most goods, manufacturing and sale cost will vary with the local
political climate. If APDS is the normal type of ammunition used,
competition will drive the price down. If it is brand new and there are
limited manufacturing facilities, the price will be higher. Availability
of ammunition depends on three levels: Tech Level, Law Level and
Population Level. The base 2D roll for easy availability at a major
population center is the planetary Population Level+2, levels A and
above needing a roll of 12-. Each Tech Level difference between the
ammunition and the planetary Tech Level is a DM-3 to this roll. If there
is a source, but the Law Level is past the legal to own on planetary
surface  level for the weapon firing this ammunition, it requires a
Difficult (2.5D) Streewise task to find said source, with a DM-2 for
each Law Level the weapon is illegal by. A critical failure means you
get in trouble of some kind. This could be immediate, like being present
during a police raid or having the supplier think you are an informant
or spy, or delayed, like buying from a sting operation, where the
character will be busted at some later date for the recorded and
witnessed illegal transaction.

Example - Characters touch down on a TL10 world with a Population Level
of 9 and a Law Level of 4. Wisely, they leave their heavy weapons on the
ship, but someone decides they need extra ammunition for a TL11 vehicle
autocannon. The 2D availability roll is 8- because of the DM-3 for Tech
Level difference. If there is some to be found here, it is a Difficult
Streetwise roll with a DM-2 for the illegal nature of the ammunition to
get an appointment with someone who can provide it. The haggling over
the price is left to the GM and player to work out. 

This document is copyright 1997 by Greg Porter

______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:33:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

> I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to 
> have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated 
> mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV 
> :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.) 

Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com
for webmaster@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 21:56:25 PST
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD voting so far...

I vote for a TL11 or 12 Far Trader.

Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 19:02:10 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: OT: Happy Fun Ball (was RE: THUDDD)

At 09:41 AM 2/6/97 -0500, Commander X transmitted:

>"Basketball of Death?"  We always used to call our 800ton Broadsword Class 
>Merc Cruiser the "Happy Fun Ball", as in "Do not taunt the..."

Does anybody know where I can find the complete Happy Fun Ball warning list?
I lost it in the Great Hard Drive Failure of '96.

Coming Soon in the Silly era:  The Gamer Purity test.



- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:24:32 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Rob Miracle wrote:

> > I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to 
> > have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated 
> > mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV 
> > :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.) 
> 
> Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

Doesn't matter to me.  I only subscribe to two mailing lists (TML and 
GDW-Beta), so keeping them straight isn't a problem (if I understand the 
subject matter of the post, it's probably TML; if I don't understand what 
the heck they're talking about, it's probably GDW-Beta[grin!]).  

But having "TML" inserted into the subject line won't bother me at all.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:42:47 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Aramis/Spinward Marches again!

> Does anybody have any information on wheather there are Ancients 
> sites in Aramis subsector?

The Spinward Marches, including the Aramis subsector, is a hotbed for 
Ancients sites.

I don't have my Trav stuff available for looking just at the moment, 
but I can tell you that there is one in the Rhylanor subsector just 
below Aramis on Rhylanor.  And, in the Yres system, in neighboring 
Regina subsector, there is space wreckage left over from the Ancient 
War.

If you have some CT stuff to referr to, look at the maps, sometimes 
they will note Ancient sites on different planets as they do Scout 
and Naval bases.

Wish I could give you some more specific information.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:51:09 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: BAB5,Trek

> So far i have the Pilot and the first 11 videos of BAB5 and still
> collecting (this is just into season 2)

I sure wish they would release these in the US.  Good news is that I 
read on the BAB5 Lukers Guide on the web that TNT has ordered two 
made for TV movies of B5 and a new series focusing on the Rangers.  
All of these will take place before the end of the current B5 series 
although we'll be watching them after we've seen the end of the show.

I do love Trek, and I agree that Voyager lags behind.  But, so did 
Deep Space 9, and now, in the last two years, DS9 is holding its own 
against TNG.  I think that Voyager will get there.  I've already seen 
some pretty good shows this season, although that's the 
exception--not the norm.  

It took DS9  a couple  of years to get its act together, and I'm 
hoping that Voyager will soon follow suit.

As far as B5, well, it is just incredible.  I rarely get that excited 
about a show.  It is by far the best SF show that I've ever seen on 
TV.

Kenneth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin Hollands	
> Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
> MIS Europe & Africa Region
> Phone:	0171 413 3413
> Fax:	0171 257 6369
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 22:28:39 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: non-Spacecraft Weapon Design

JayStr <jaystr@best.com> wrote:
> Looks great.... but how do the damage/pen stats translate
> to starship damage? (RANT ALERT)

This isn't a Traveller Answer, because I already answered
that question this week.  ;-)  I recently posted (as a Traveller
Answer] a table that allows you to look up a ship's armor 
rating (from the ship description), and gives you the equivalent
non-Starship armor rating (no math required).

In addition, along with the "sneak preview" weapons, Greg Porter
sent a draft of a conversion table for _Emperor's Arsenal_ that
converts between starship weapon ratings and non-Starship (personal
or vehicle) weapon ratings.  I didn't include that table in my
post, because Greg cautioned "the numbers may change" before the
book is finished.

 Pen    USP
 0-16   0-0-0-0
 17-20  1-0-0-0
 21-25  2-0-0-0
 26-29  3-0-0-0


> Don't nobody tell me that this sort of thing isn't going to
> come up with mind-bending regularity. 

Believe me, we know.  Everyone who has input on the starship design
or weapon and armor design systems is aware of the problem, and we're
working on fixes of one kind or another.

> We need a rule of thumb -- preferably in the form of a nice simple 10/1
> or 100/1 ratio.

Sorry, but no.  The problem is that the systems use two different
exponential scales.  Greg's system has the armor value proportional to the
cube root of the thickness; the starship system uses a (mostly arbitrary)
progression of numbers in a table.  Converting between the two and winding
up with numbers at least of the correct order of magnitude accross the
entire scale requires some math that I can't do on my fingers (but I can do
it on a calculator that is available at the local drugstore, and costs less
than the list price for _Starships_).

Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 21:59:00 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

Dr. Mark Clark wrote:
>  My vote is for one of the Trader ships (Free, Far, or Fat variety), with
>a preference for the Far Trader.  My characters spent more time in these
>than any other type, so it would be interesting to see what folks might
>come up with as alternatives.

I concur. The Far Trader has always been the platform of choice for 
Travellin' in my group. I vote for the trader.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:09:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: Sandcasters

[snipped all previous material]

I always felt that sandcasters were very well defined and explained.  I play
TNE and there were several paragraphs about them in the space combat, ship
weaponry, and skill descriptions section.  

Here is how I understand a sandcaster:

It is a device that shoots canisters of magnetic (or electrically charged)
reflective ablative particles into the vacuum of space.  They aren't really
sand, nor are they employed passively.  These particles are controlled by
the gunner, and positioned into the path of the enemy's laser beam. It said
in TNE that lasers use a targeting LIDAR or RADAR and this is what allowed
the use of sandcasters as a defensive measure.  The particles are controlled
magnetically into a shape (presumably thickness and diameter) that will
interfere most with the incoming laser in terms of energy and wavelength.
Their magnetism allows them to follow along with the ship during vector
changes, they aren't lost, nor are they long term.  They are shot one
canister at a time, at one inbound laser which makes them different than a
field defense.  

The idea about polarizing them was fascinating (to allow better diffusing of
the enemy beam.)

If shot on the ground, since they are electrically charged, the B-field
lines could be aligned to propel the 'sand' particles.  Range would be
limited by power generation, which would have to over come the planets
B-field, the atmospheric resistance, and probably the unaerodynamic particles.

I admit that I would like to see somebody's idea on how these damage ground
targets and atmospheric targets (picture a J-Hawk in a dogfight with a TL
5-7 fighter!?!)  Some suggestions in terms of 'Muzzle' Energy, penetration,
and damage would all be super cool.

This was my take on them, according to TNE.  

Jeff Brawley

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #922
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 7 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 923



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

THUDD
Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?
Re: Re CCG killed RPG (long)
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****
Traveller PBeMs
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: RE: What are sandcasters?
THUDD vote
Re: THUDDD voting so far...
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: RE: What are sandcasters?
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: Sandcasters
RE: What are sandcasters?
Re: THUDDD voting so far...
Filtering Messages
Re: non-Spacecraft Weapon Design
TRV: THUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Re: Geonee Stuff
Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: Filtering Messages
Total Confusion Gaming Convention
Re: Filtering Messages
THUDD
SF films (was: Re CCG killed RPG (long))
Re: The law and bribery?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:13:12 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: THUDD

My Vote is the Trader Concept

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:58:43 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?

> I cannot for the life of my figure out what Doctor Who could be a rip-off
> of, The show premiered in 1963, BEFORE Star Trek, long before Star Wars. How
> could it be a rip-off? Indeed, with it's awesome background of the Time
> Lords of Gallifrey and the ability to replace it's star and reinvent itself
> through regeneration, I consider Doctor Who to be one of the most ORIGINAL
> shows on television anywhere!


Saying rip-off was a bad choice of words.  I was referring to a genre 
rip off, but you are right, DR WHO is very original.

You like it, and I respect that.  I just think that it is crap.  I've 
tried to watch it a few times, and I find it very uninteresting and 
bordering on the edge of stupid--well, it is stupid.

But, you like it, and I do recognize that it is very popular with 
some.

Well, heck, not everybody likes Traveller either.

Kenneth. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:23:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Led Mirage <lmirage@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: Re CCG killed RPG (long)

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Tim Reynolds wrote:

> I think Allen is right here TSR problems are its owen.  IMHO it seems 
> that their main problem is the loss of game designers.  With Gaygax 
> gone GrayHawk died with him.  Now Tim has moved over to IG (smile) 
> and TSR is not planing to put out in more Dark Sun this year last I 
> heared.  Also Dragon Lance has died yes I the orginal better.  

AD&D is NOT a problem within TSR. TSR's problems are outside of AD&D. The
fact is TSR doesn't have anything outside of AD&D. For the record, there
is talk of reviving Greyhawk due to extreme loyalty to the gameworld of
fans. While Tim Brown was one of the original creators of Dark Sun, Troy
Denning is a MUCH larger influence. After Troy left (I think he moved to
the Planescape team), Bill Slaviscek stepped in and produced the Revised
Edition. However, by that time, sales have already dwindled. And as far as
Dragonlance goes, its back as the Fifth age, which uses the SAGA system.
That is, Fifth Age is NOT an AD&D product. SAGA, though, debuted with much
praise, and as I understand, DL stuff is selling pretty well.
 
> 
> As far as CCG I was talking to my Brother who knows a few of the 
> creatators of the WOC people and the company has yet to make a 
> profit.

Well, WoTC was stupid enough to try to building their own office building.
Guess where that money came from? M:tG made HUGE amount of money for WoTC
for a few years. It was their own stupid decisions that killed themselves.

> reason why I got T4.  Remember that we are the first generation to 
> grow up with RPG and the marketing people who know there jobs are 
> hoping to capture our money.  So just like the a few years ago  when we 
> started to get 70s stuff back and movies made out of 50 TV shows the 
> gamming industry well move to publish things we remember  happly.  If 
> you dont belive me just remember where you were Friday night, making 
> Mr Lucas 38. something millions more off a move you have most likely
> saw many times..

While it is good to see the old stuff coming back, it also says something
about the industry. Are we so unimaginative that we have to rehash the old
as new? The fact is, ever since Star Wars, a movie that first showed 20
years ago, there had been nothing. Rather sad isn't it. Adn we are STILL
relying on ol' George to make SF films that capture our imagination.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:27:11 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Rob Miracle wrote:

> > I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to 
> > have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated 
> > mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV 
> > :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.) 
 
> Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

I wouldn't be opposed to it. Wouldn't lose any sleep over it either. :)
Guess you could count me as a yes. I'm always one for progress.

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:04:03 -0800
From: "Rich Ostorero" <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

> 
> Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

I'm on other lists where the listadmin is really anal about list posts
having a category abbreviation in the subject header. One of the TML's
charms is the lack of such anality. 

I say "no, leave the subject header alone."

- --Rich Ostorero
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:04:34 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: *****THUDDD announcement!*****

Count me for the Far Trader. Sure we need to get to the Cruisers, but the
Far Trader is an old fav., and is a great adventurer ship. IMHO, it has the
more immediate need.

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:42:55 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: Traveller PBeMs

Suz Dollar and I have talked a bit about the Traveller PBeM list and I am
going to be heading that up in the future.  I have some ideas for a web page
to collect and display the data, but I need your help.

If you are a Ref running a Traveller PBeM, please send me the info on the
Game.  What I'm looking for is the Game name or Prefix or whatever, the
system being used, the Ref's name and eMail address, and if there are any
openings in the game currently.  I'll be setting up a web page hopefully
next week to display all the information.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:10:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

Quoth Rob Miracle:
> > I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to 
> > have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated 
> > mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV 
> > :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.) 
> 
> Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

I think it wastes valuable space in the subject line.  Most decent filters
(I use procmail) can be set to examine the (unambiguous) "From:" line
rather than just the "Subject:" line.  Most folks I know of who read
multiple mailing lists use decent filters: they either already did or they
learned.  Procmail isn't even that hard.

Subject prefixes cause all sorts of gunk when you get replies and
forwards: what are we going to do when we get mail with headings like:
"TRV:Re: TRV:Re: How do sandcasters work?"  That's ugly.  And it's harder
to set up a mailer to treat the subject line properly than it is to
configure a decent filter in the first place.

So my vote is a definite "No way!"  :-)

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:48:45 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: What are sandcasters?

In a message dated 2/6/97 5:13:07 PM, you wrote:

>This brings up the issue of ammunition for the sandcasters. Do you need
>to buy new canisters of particles when you're in port? Or does it just
>use the ship's waste and convert it into tiny particles?

	Yes you need to but new cans of sand:-(

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:43:35 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: THUDD vote

My vote goes for the 200dT far trader. Seems characters
spend more time in these than anything else. If anybody
wants, I'm a graphic artist, I'd be happy to knock up a
hard copy certificate or something that the winner could
hang on their wall.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "At Phoenix, we strive for adequate"
      Captain Sir Jerami Djano IN (ret) CEO Phoenix Corporation
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:46:08 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: THUDDD voting so far...

OK, I'll vote for the Far Trader...

...but I assume that given enough time (and interest) we'll get round to
them all in time.

tc
"Desperately hoping he can wade through ?SDS to actually produce an entry
he can contribute in time."  (Usually it takes me about three years to
design anything!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:45:42 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

> I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to
> have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated
> mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV
> :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.)

I get about 100 mails a day and it's still no bother. Just autosort your
mail by sender and you'll get your mailing lists straight. Eudora Pro and
probably others have this facility.
(Yes, I'm a mailing list junkie)


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:04:04 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: RE: What are sandcasters?

>This brings up the issue of ammunition for the sandcasters. Do you need
>to buy new canisters of particles when you're in port? Or does it just
>use the ship's waste and convert it into tiny particles?

Maybe they really do use the ships waste system and make tiny particles
with some kind of rotating slicer. A new meaning to "When the shit hits the
fan=8A" ;)


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:55:49 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

          >> I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list
          to
          >> have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated
          >> mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie.
          TRV
          >> :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.)

Rob Miracle replied:

          >Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

          I would tend to vote for this - but even more would I prefer *digests*
           to come with *sort* of subject line (eg. TML 987 or whatever), the
          current completely blank line is not very helpful.

          tc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:28:40 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sandcasters

In FF&S, on page 56 it says:

"Each sandcaster also contains a generator which creates a field used to 
manipulate the location and shape of the cloud of crystals (ie the 
sand).  At early tech levels, these fields are electromagnetic and 
require magnetic sand.  More advanced systems supplement, then supplant, 
the magnetic manipulation with gravitic manipulation..."

Sounds definative to me, and I like it.   


- -John jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:37:10 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: RE: What are sandcasters?

At 07:43 6/02/1997 -0700, you wrote:
>Interesting thread! I'll make some comments.
>
>----------
>From: 	Andrew Vallance
>Sent: 	Feb 06, 1997 4:09 AM
>To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
>Subject: 	What are sandcasters?
>
>I've been thinking about how the various weapons
>work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
>I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
>[munch]
>
>This brings up the issue of ammunition for the sandcasters. Do you need
>to buy new canisters of particles when you're in port? Or does it just
>use the ship's waste and convert it into tiny particles?

Way back in Book 2, Sand canisters were said to cost Cr400 each.
From what's been said, sand particles seem to be specialised
crystals, so I don't think ships waste would work.


  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: THUDDD voting so far...

I vote for the Merc Cruiser specification.

Eamon.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:50:08 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: Filtering Messages

Jason I don't have a problem, i'm on the digest and just filter for
Traveller Digest in the subject line and everything is hunky dorey.


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:32:21 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: non-Spacecraft Weapon Design

JayStr wrote:

> Looks great.... but how do the damage/pen stats translate to starship
> damage? (RANT ALERT)

	The different personal combat/starship damage and armor values
	is the main reason why I can not accept the T4 combat system.
	TNE had a working system where the same damage and armor values
	were used everywhere, but T4 uses a "simplified" system and
	discarded the whole idea.

	Example: TNE (or FFS)
	auto pistol: DV 2, pen 1-Nil; 	laser turret: DV 30, pen 1/10;
	combat armor: AV 4			system defense boat: AV 120

	Example: T4
	auto pistol: Damage 2 		laser turret: 1-1-1-1
	combat armor: AV ~4			system defense boat: Armor 40

	In FFS the damage value was based on the (square root of) delivered
	energy, and armor value was based on the "toughness" and thickness
	of armor plate.

	In T4 the damage values are probably based on G3 DV, and armor
	values are loosely based on FFS AV, but they use different scalings
	and are not directly compatible.

> ... Firing a VRF gauss gun inside an unarmored ship's hull? Don't nobody
> tell me that this sort of thing isn't going to come up with mind-bending
> regularity. 

	This kind of things just seems to happen all the time in my
	campaign, and self-inflicted explosive decompression was one
	most common reasons for PC deaths until they learned it in the
	hard way. (RAM HEAP grenades should _not_ be used inside a
	starship, everyone should know where their vacc suit is, and
	using a landmate armor with portable mass-driver in boarding
	party is definitely overkill.)



        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:15:44 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: TRV: THUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I've not tried designing yet, but i'll give it a go, my vote is for the FAR
Trader, as i need a couple of these for my campaign that i'm designing at
the moment, (OK Andy, I am working on my campaign Honest, but with house
hunting, sprog alert, and year end to cope with all at the same time, i
went a bit ga ga for a while, but i'm back to unreality)

As for the Protion? Motorbike, sounds good except for one thing, if my
understanding of G forces etc are correct, don't go around a corner on it
if the frame is only rated to 1G it would buckle, a Formula 1 racing car
can pull 5 G going around a corner, i don't know what TT Racing motorcyles
pull but at a guess it is well over 1G.

 


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:31:40 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Geonee Stuff

- -> >        Given the past discussions about wasting bandwith, and given that I
- -> >have received no comment on the Geonee Pocket Empire, I would like to know
- -> >if the list as a collective has interest in seeing more Geonee posts. If I
- -> >receive a significant number of responses, I will continue ;-)

Noo, keep it up, i like it!
By the way, is the information posted on any webpage?
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:24:38 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: BAB5,Trek

Zhodani agents report that Kenneth Bearden wrote:

- -> 
- -> > So far i have the Pilot and the first 11 videos of BAB5 and still
- -> > collecting (this is just into season 2)
(Bad Kirk Impression): Must....HAVE....tapes!!!!!
I guess my next trip to the UK is already a given fact! 
- -> 
- -> I do love Trek, and I agree that Voyager lags behind.  But, so did 
Me too, but i feel that NOTHING that Trek EVER did equals Bab5 in ANY 
way. Bab5, for me, is Numero Uno!

- -> As far as B5, well, it is just incredible.  I rarely get that excited 
- -> about a show.  It is by far the best SF show that I've ever seen on 
- -> TV.
Aye! (Spoken with mouth watering over the just broadcast Grey 17 is 
missing- episode!)
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:30:28 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?

Zhodani agents report that Kenneth Bearden wrote:

- -> Saying rip-off was a bad choice of words.  I was referring to a genre 
- -> rip off, but you are right, DR WHO is very original.
- -> 
- -> You like it, and I respect that.  I just think that it is crap.  I've 
- -> tried to watch it a few times, and I find it very uninteresting and 
- -> bordering on the edge of stupid--well, it is stupid.
You are right: It IS stupid, in the same sense that the Killer 
Tomatoe series (movie, NOT TV) is stupid and therefore supreme 
TV-watching material.
These daleks are just so laughable, well, it's fun!
My vote for the Worst ever SciFi-attempt goes out to the Perry Rhodan 
Moviee: S.o.s. in outer space! Nothing similar to the series and just 
soo badly made!
- -> But, you like it, and I do recognize that it is very popular with 
- -> some.
- -> 
- -> Well, heck, not everybody likes Traveller either.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Don't say that it's true, don't bust my bubble!
NOOOOOOOOOO!!
- -> 
- -> Kenneth. 
- -> 
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:54:32 EST
From: galliand@juno.com
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

I think you need to have a subject header, saying that it is the TML. 
That's all that is needed.  Someone can put in his own subject, and the
generic TML or whatever will be tacked on at the front.

Scott Galliand

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:12:07 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

At 08:04 PM 2/6/97 -0800, you wrote:
>> Its possible.  What does everyone else think?
>
>I'm on other lists where the listadmin is really anal about list posts
>having a category abbreviation in the subject header. One of the TML's
>charms is the lack of such anality. 
>
>I say "no, leave the subject header alone."

This would be automated.  Majordomo would insert [TML] at the beginning of
each subject line.

There is no being anal about it.  You don't have to do anything, and while
I have a lot of filters set up on my work machine with Eudora, when I read
mail at night from home or on the weekends with Elm, I frequently cant tell
what from what.  If it were something that each poster would have to do I
would be against it, other than say:  Use good subjects.  But since we
strictly talking having majordomo insert a [TML] for you, then I am open
for discussion.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:07:16 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Filtering Messages

Zhodani agents report that Colin Hollands wrote:

- -> Jason I don't have a problem, i'm on the digest and just filter for
- -> Traveller Digest in the subject line and everything is hunky dorey.
I am on the normal mailing list (switched from the digest yesterday, 
and i am filtering by the sender and for me it works, too.
So I would prefer no additional subject, although i can undestand 
those that wish to have one!
 
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:24:14 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Total Confusion Gaming Convention

Yo Folks,
    Is anyone out there going to this? (http:
//pw2.netcom.com/~bruderc/index.html) It looks rather big. Perhaps we could
 organise a TML party...
            Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 15:22:13 +0100
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Filtering Messages

Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> 
> Zhodani agents report that Colin Hollands wrote:
> 
> -> Jason I don't have a problem, i'm on the digest and just filter for
> -> Traveller Digest in the subject line and everything is hunky dorey.
> I am on the normal mailing list (switched from the digest yesterday,
> and i am filtering by the sender and for me it works, too.
> So I would prefer no additional subject, although i can undestand
> those that wish to have one!
> 
> Just my 2 EuroCents,
> 
> V.A.G.
> ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
> -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
> ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
> -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

I am using Netscape Mail and view the list in individual mails.
My problem is that this mailer views the mail as coming from 
the individual sending it, not from the list, so I would really 
like to see a [TML] hung on the begining of each subject.

Tommy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:21:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: THUDD

200td Free trader, in TL 10-12 evolutions.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:21:57 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: SF films (was: Re CCG killed RPG (long))

At 11:23 PM 2/6/97 -0500, you wrote:

>While it is good to see the old stuff coming back, it also says something
>about the industry. Are we so unimaginative that we have to rehash the old
>as new? The fact is, ever since Star Wars, a movie that first showed 20
>years ago, there had been nothing. Rather sad isn't it. Adn we are STILL
>relying on ol' George to make SF films that capture our imagination.

Well, there have been some great SF movies/TV since the release of Star
Wars.  Think of films like Terminator, CE3K, even-numbered Star Trek films,
and ET.  Television has given us ST:TNG and DS9 (I hate Voyager), Babylon 5,
the X-Files..

Star Wars is a timeless story about heroism, which is why it's great to see
it on the big screen again, but i have to disagree that we haven't had
anything good since then.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:37:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The law and bribery?

In mail you write:

> There is some things that i want to wrinkle out concerning the law in
> traveller. The rules simply states that it is easier to bribe someone at
> level 10 than it is at level 3 for example. Or as it is stated in the rules:
>
> "Bribery is generally a Difficult task on a moderate law world, and gets
> one level easier for each level of higher law, and one level harder for
> each level of lower law."
>
> So if i wanted to bribe someone and fail i should try at Law level 1 world!?!
>
> What is this? Am i wrong to assume that higher law means tougher law system
> and harsher punishments? Could someone please explain this to me.. as if i
> was a five year old.  :)

Stop and think about it. The more control society imposes the more
common bribery becomes. Because it is *necessary* to keep things
running smoothly.

If you are *caught*, you are in more trouble at a high law level. But
take a look at real-world history. Bribery *is* more common (and thus
more "accepted" by the *people, not the *law*) at higher law levels.

This is why laws against things that people don't really feel are wrong
never work out.

It *is* counter-intuitive. But it's the way the real world seems to
work. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #923
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 7 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 924



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Auction: Update #6
Re: Missile Systems for T4
Re: Problem Players
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
Re: Questions about solar system formation
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: Genoee posts
Re: THUDD voting
Re: things
Re: Measurement Systems
Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: Filtering Messages
TML: IG Pricing
Re: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)
Don't let Virus munge the header! (was Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:31:13 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction: Update #6

 
Many new items added since the last update - take a look :)

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

*new addition*
"Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Book 1 - Characters and Combat" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 2 - Starships" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 3 - Worlds and Adventures" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Book 4 - Mercenary" (GDW)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 52. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium" (GDW)
 Circa: 1979. Pages: 43. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca

*new addition*
"Tarsus - World Beyond the Frontier" (GDW)
 Circa: 1983. Condition: Excellent. (Boxed Module)
 Bid: $6.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $15.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $10.00 pnewman@pacbell.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: "Fleet Escort Lisiani")
 Bid: $5.00  beck@mail.all-mail.net

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #26" (GDW)
 Circa:1986. Pages:48. Condition:Good.(Article:"Cargo-Merchant Prince Variant")
 Bid: $5.00 scarabl@pacbell.net 

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #27" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. ( **Droyne/Grandfather Issue** )
 Bid: $5 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #28" (GDW)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Across the Imperium)
 Bid: $5.00 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #29" (GDW)
 Circa:1987. Pages:48. Condition:Good. (**Traveller Tenth Anniversary Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca


MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #56" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition. (**Hard Times Issue**)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #57" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition: Good. (Article: "Shellgame")
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #64" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 88. Condition: Good. (**Fall of the Imperium Issue**)
 Bid:

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net


TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

*new addition*
"Traveller Chronicle Magazine #10" (Knight)
 Circa:1996. Pages:56. Condition:Excellent. (**Children of Earth - part #1**)
 Bid: $4.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

*new addition*
"Not in Our Stars" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 222. Condition: Excellent. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $8.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Voyage of the Planetslayer" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 302. Condition: Fine. (Travller Inspired Novel - 2 of 3)
 Bid: $8.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Revolt and Rebirth" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 329. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel - 3 of 3)
 Bid: $8.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

*new addition*
"Voyages SF Magazine #15" (King)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 34. Condition: Fine. (Article: "Recruiting for Paradise")
 Bid: $4.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $6.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Sea of Death" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 394. Condition: Fine. (Novel)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Night Arrant" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pahes: 398. Condition: Fine. (Novel - Autographed by Gary)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Come Endless Darkness" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 379. Condition: Good. (Novel)
 Bid:
- -----

That's it for the present. I will post updates every day or so.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:17:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missile Systems for T4

In mail, d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:

>   As I and Wildstar showed in the Missile article that scared GDW, 4km
> is a looooong effective blast radius in space even for *nukes*.

On the other hand, at 4 km the flux of *x-rays* from the blast is only
1/16,000,000 of that one meter from the bomb. Given that most materials
are rather opaque to X-rays, that means that a (nominal) 100 kT blast
at 4 km will deposit the energy of a 6.25 kg blast at one meter. 

And for ships that aren't well shielded, you'll get the xrays going
into the ship and killing everyone.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:47:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Problem Players

In mail you write:

> No rules are hard to use with "rules lawyers" players. When they start in
> arguing about rules, just pick up your rulebook, slam it down HARD on the
> table to get their attention and say in a loud voice:
>         "I AM the rules!"

I've seen it done by refs.

The other two *workable* solutions to rules lawyers that I've
encountered are:

1. knowing the rules better than they do (my solution in the old days).
Very few players will rules lawyer more than once with someone who can
reach into a stack of all the rules and supplements, pick out the right
book, open it to the right page with only a few flipped pages, and then
point to the details that they forgot to mention. :-)

2. not *having* rules. An old friend used to play this way. It wound up
being a sort of "directed story-telling" much like the Vampire games. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:56:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

In mail you write:

> What's weirder than the Vilani adopting the Terran calendar: jumpspace
> adopting the Terran calendar! Notice that a jump, regardless of distance,
> always takes *one week*! Now there's an astounding coindidence. :)
>
> Obviously it's a not really a week *exactly*, but close enough for game
> purposes. Seems to me the Imperium would adopt the jump-duration as the
> standard time unit. All other measures could be derived from that unit.

Except that it isn't a constant. The rules even say that the duration
varies. It just *averages* a week.

BTW, this is a problem for navigation. A planet orbiting at 30 km/sec
will move over 100,000 km in an hour. 

In fact, given this, I'd say that it's possible to calculate your exit
point "exactly". The uncertainty in position comes from the *time*
uncertainty for the jump exit (ie you came out where you aimed, but the
planet has moved!)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:44:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

In mail you write:

> "Battlestar Galactica" referred to the Egyptians, the Toltecs, and the
> Mayans.  Personally, I think the idea of squabbling, bloodthirsty,
> calender- and dynasty-obsessed starfaring Mayan progenitors is sorta
> nifty, in a colorful "space-opera-ish" kinda way.

Actually, the implication seemed to be that they were *descendants* of
the star travellers.

>  Hey...something just
> occurred to me.  The Mayans had, I believe, *three* different kinds of
> years: the 365-day "vague year," probably used for ordinary administrative
> purposes, a 360-day year used to determine chronological distances to a
> reference point at roughly 3100 b.c., and a 260-day "calender round," used
> to assign "day names" to each day, in part for divination.  The 365- and
> 360-days years make a moderate amount of sense, but why a 260-day year?

Because there's a 260 day cycle involving observations of Venus!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:23:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Questions about solar system formation

In mail you write:

> 1)  What is the lower limit for the mass of a brown dwarf?  I've
> found mention of an upper limit on the 'net of .08 solar masses, but
> I didn't find a clear mention of a lower limit.

There *isn't* one. A brown dwarf is simply a *big* gas giant that isn't
big enough to start fusion reactions at the core and thus become a star.
So any lower limit is arbitrary.

> 2)  Are there any guidelines for the size of a world's satellites in
> relation to the world itself (such as: a moon of a solid planet
> should mass less than X% of its parent world, while the moon of a gas
> giant should mass less than Y% of its parent world)?

Consider the Terra/Luna pair. Or, worse yet, the Pluto/Charon pair. 

At some (arbitrary) point, you quit having a satellite and wind up with
a "double planet".

You have one simple, but rather basic misconception. You are thinking
of the categories into which we lump various sized bodies as if they
have some "real" meaning rather than merely being a convenience.

The only differences are size and composition. They *all* form out of
the initial cloud of dust and gas. Their composition starts out the
same. But once a "nearby" body gets massive enough to "light up", you
get the heat changing the composition.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:31:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

In mail you write:

>> >Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
>> 
>> Inside a known system, positions of planets and asteroids should give
>> a reasonably acurate time (as well as locations of features like
>> continents; a P1 sensor can resolve features a 40 metres across at 
>> 1,000,000 km ranges.) Of course, in a well-known system you'll just tune
>> into the Imperial equivalent of GPS.
>
> Doesn't that assume that you're within the correct solar "year"?  How big a
> time distortion are we talking about?

The years of the different planets are different. And for various
reasons having to due with gravitational interaction, their periods
*cannot* be simple multiples of each other (if they were, they'd pull
each other out of orbit). So that means that a given set of *relative*
planetary positions isn't going to repeat very often. The absolute ones
are even less likely to repeat. 

So if you get a wrong answer, it'll be wrong by *centuries*.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:35:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: Genoee posts

> Subject: Geonee Stuff
> 
> >        Given the past discussions about wasting bandwith, and given that I
> >have received no comment on the Geonee Pocket Empire, I would like to know
> >if the list as a collective has interest in seeing more Geonee posts. If I
> >receive a significant number of responses, I will continue ;-)
>   
> Don't be discouraged, if you don't get many responses when you post
> something big.  Most people just file things away for latter use.  Its
> only if you make a mistake or make some kind of really wacked idea,
> (for example Pogo Sticks :) )

Yes, although I don't have a lot of use for it now, I'd hate to discourage
someone from coming up with such useful material... I think the Genoee are
a fairly important race in the history on the Imperia... they were originally
thought to be a major race, but were later demoted to 'minor' status,
they were one of the first races contacted by the Vilani, they form a
signifigant population in their section of space, making them important
in any political dealings in the subsector, etc. Now all we need is
some more art (more than that one drawing in S&A!).

Ethan
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:29:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDD voting

> From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
> Subject: THUDDD voting so far...
> 
> All right... here's where we stand on ship class so far:
> 
> Merc Cruiser: 4     Far Trader: 1     Corsair: 2     Heavy Fighter: 1
> Patrol Cruiser: 1

Well, my vote is already in for the Merc Cruiser, but why not just
make a list for the next few months and skip the voting for a while...
Merc Crusier this cycle, maybe a Trader the next time, then a Corsair,
etc. 

BTW, as a separate question, I was looking for an official T4 answer
to a common question(s):

1) If you have a (say) J4 drive and do a J1, in T4 is all the jump
fuel consumed, or only part of it?

2) If you have a J1 drive and enough fuel for 2 jumps,  can you stop
in an 'empty' map hex enroute?

Now, I realize that I'm allowed to come up with whatever answer I want
to these questions, but I'd like to know what the official T4 party
line is. Why? Because it can make a signifigant impact on ship designs
of course. If #2 is disallowed, the J1/double-fuel 'Far Trader' would
be disallowed. if #1 is allowed, a military ship could mount a J2 drive
and be able to J1 out and back without having to refuel, or do a J2
if necessary, in 1 week instead of 2 (assuming #2 is allowed).

Anyways, if anyone saw this in the T4 rulebook where I missed
it, please let me know and provide a page reference, please.

Thanks,
Ethan

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:52:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: things

In mail you write:

> 4/I was re-reading my copy of "Federation" by H. Beam Piper and came
> upon the final short story in it - "When in the course" which is the
> original version of "Gunpowder God"("Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" to you
> colonials). The difference is that it`s set in the Terran Federation
> universe, the people with advanced knowledge are looking for a planet
> to exploit commercially so that they can become the "chartered
> (insert planet name) company". What they find is the same situation
> as in the start of G.G. and they set about changing things with the
> aid of contra-grav and machine guns. The story just begs to be turned
> into a Milieu nought scenario. What do you think?

Yep. It'd make a good adventure. Heck, IG could do a lot worse than
trying to license all of Piper's stuff. 

Here are some other Piper stories that'd make good source material:

Space Viking (raiding "fallen" colonies, recivilizing same)
Uller Uprising (the natives decide to revolt... using nukes!)
The Fuzzy books (especially the fuzzy burglars)
Naudsonce (short story about first contact)
Oopmhel in the Sky (another native problem)
The Cosmic Computer (aka Junkyard Planet) 

That last one could be used for a *pre*-Millieu 0 history about how a
pocket empire *starts* and the fall of the second Imperium.

The others will all work in Millieu zero.

And they are all great sources for aliens and cultures.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:02:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

In mail you write:

> In terms of interstellar calendar systems, here's what prompted 
> the thought:
>
> A ship exits jumpspace.
>
> It scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in 
> space. (i.e., answers the question, "where are we?")

> Is scans astronomical "markers" to find its current location in time. 
> (i.e., answers the question, "when are we?")  [note: these "markers" 
> may or may not be the same as the first step]

Right. First it checks the spectrum of the nearby star to see if it
matches that of the target. At the same time you are checking for the
nav beacons that should be there. If they are there, they'll act like
the current GPS (global positioning system) satellites and enable you
to locate yourself precisely in both space *and* in time.

If the star doesn't match, and there aren't any nav beacons, you next
start scanning for radio signals sent from ISS observatories. These can
be picked up with a large antenna over quite a few parsecs.  But they
travel at light speed, so there has to have been time for them to
spread since the observatory was put online.

If you can't find those, you are well and truly lost. There was a
thread in rec.arts.sf.science about how to locate yourself in both
space and time (assuming a "jump drive" that has a *huge* range, and a
first flight where you don't know *how* to calibrate it :-). Borrowing
from what I recall of it...

First you scan for the magellanic clouds and other galaxies in the
"local group". Those will tell you which way is galactic north. It'll
also confirm which way is coreward. Together, these give you spinward.
And they give you a rough idea of where you are in the galaxy. 

Next you scan for globular clusters and pulsars. Those will narrow down
your position some more. And the pulsars give you a time (they slow
down over time, so the pulse rate tells you when the signal left the
pulsar). This ought to be enough to locate you.

Given the limited range of misjumps, it'd be easier to just use a small
telescope (a meter or so) to get the spectra of the brighter stars. The
computer can check those against files and probably get matches pretty
fast. 

> I'm looking more for a "date/time reference" than for a replacement 
> calendar. (Though, the new reference system *might* eventually 
> replace older calendars - depends on the culture. :-)

Pulsars will give this. But you need to get a position first. And since
stars move relative to each other, that gives you another time check if
you get a spectral match.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:09:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

In mail you write:

> I've been thinking about how the various weapons
> work and the more I look at sandcasters the more
> I draw a blank. Just how do sandcasters work? From
> [munch]
>
> This brings up the issue of ammunition for the sandcasters. Do you need
> to buy new canisters of particles when you're in port? Or does it just
> use the ship's waste and convert it into tiny particles?

I'd say that you need special "sand". That's because you want something
that has some rather specific properties:

1. takes a *lot* of energy to melt
2. takes a lot of energy to convert the liquid into vapor
3. takes a lot of energy to turn gas into plasma
4. has a crystal structure and particle shape that acts as a
   "retroreflector" (like the particle in highway signs). This causes
   incoming energy to be reflected back towards the source. Not well
   enough to damage anything, but it'll help blind the sensors.
5. when converted to liquid drops, it should be "transparent" to the
   energy (this means that the spherical drops will *still*
   retro-reflect the energy)
6. gas & plasma forms should be *highly* opaque.

All of this combines to deflect large amounts of energy, defocus
transmitted energy and maximize absorbed energy.

This also means that laser beams passing thru sand will look like an sf
special effect. Which, incidentally, makes tracking the source of the
beam easier.

> But heres the problem: they're an active defence.
> How do they detect the incoming laserbeam? Any
> sensor can only detect a beam when it arrives, so
> you only see it when it hits you. Any sensor which
> detects it at a distance can only get the
> information back either at the same moment it hits
> or (more likely) slightly after.

Where does it say this? In CT, and in (I thought) MT you had to have
the sand *in place* to stop a laser. 

> How's this for an idea? With lasers, you don't aim and then shoot. You
> shoot and then aim. If I have a beam laser and I'm firing at you, I turn
> on the beam when it's pointing somewhere in your vicinity and then move
> it until it's focussed on you.
>
> This gives rise to the possibility of detection of laser beams by the
> energizing of interplanetary hydrogen before it hits you. I'm anyone with
> a better knowledge of physics than I (which will be just about everyone)
> will point out why this can't work though.

The beams won't do it. It takes fairly specific wavelengths to ionize
hydrogen, and most of them are *lousy* wavelengths for weapons grade
lasers. Also, detecting the ionization would be real difficult, as
there wouldn't be that much. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:54:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Filtering Messages

> Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> > Zhodani agents report that Colin Hollands wrote:
> > So I would prefer no additional subject, although i can undestand
> > those that wish to have one!
> 
> I am using Netscape Mail and view the list in individual mails.
> My problem is that this mailer views the mail as coming from 
> the individual sending it, not from the list, so I would really 
> like to see a [TML] hung on the begining of each subject.

Ok, I have given this some thought.  As a test, so people can see
what it will be like, I am going to put this in over the weekend.  On
Monday and Tuesday, I will turn it back off, and let a discussion 
take place on the merits.  On Wednesday, we will have a Call for Votes.
(Mail your responses to me with VOTE in the subject) and on Friday
I will post the results, and change/not change the list accordingly.

Rob

- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com
for webmaster@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:09:18 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: TML: IG Pricing

Well, i was going to order a year supply of JTAS, 1 DM screen and imperial
citzenship at 57 dollars, but i cancelled the order when the online system
just tried to charge me 30 dollars shipping costs to the UK.

Does anybody know if any Uk based retailers will be carrying JTAS or the
Screens.






Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:11:07 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)

In a message dated 2/6/97 2:56:42 PM, you wrote:

>Thanks for the comments, Jo. Upon reflection, I agree with you about the
>need for advertising and the lack of it in the RPG industry.

   If I may add my two cents here the RPG industry needs to start any type of
advertising. The only reason I ever played Trav was a curiousity as to who
are these guys in the back of the comic shop(soon to take over the hole thing
and press the CCGers into that little area back were we started      back
back and take your dam mana with you!!) and why are they blocking the
bathroom luckily a very observative and kind Gm took a First timer under his
wing and a Gear head was born:-). I can turn on the tv and see a camercial
for a 3 speed turbo backshaver. But the only adds for Gaming Doodads is in
the back of a GAMING BOOK now there is a why to get new custmers! But you
cant blame them it is kind of a hard thing to advertise.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:00:44 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Don't let Virus munge the header! (was Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

> From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
> Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 7:12 AM

> There is no being anal about it.  You don't have to do anything, and
while

The desire to have such a *tool*, I think, is what the anality comment was
aimed at...  ;-)  I think trying to "ease the pain" of being subbed to a
high traffic mailing list is pointless... and it leads to ongoing
discussions about things that should have long ago died (rocks et al)
because some [fill in the blank] sleeps too much to be able to keep up with
the list on a daily basis...  *sigh*  If you can't post with the big
dogs... unsubscribe until you can, and read the archive!!!  That's what
it's for...  When I couldn't handle the volume last summer prior to GenCon
and the release of T4 (when everyone and their dog was trying to subborn
Marc into using their ship design ideas for FF&S), I took myself off the
beta list and all the others: take it from me, it's good advice; it's mine.
 ;-)
</rant>

> I have a lot of filters set up on my work machine with Eudora, when I
read
> mail at night from home or on the weekends with Elm, I frequently cant
tell
> what from what.  If it were something that each poster would have to do I
> would be against it, other than say:  Use good subjects.  But since we
> strictly talking having majordomo insert a [TML] for you, then I am open
> for discussion.

I think that we all should be in the habit of changing our subjects to be
more descriptive of content, as well as good quoting practices (i.e. not
quoting the whole @#$&ing post to add ONE line!), but adding TML so that
someone who's not going to read the posts anyway can filter them better
just annoys me...  I'm on two other lists that do that, I really dislike
it.  If I can't tell from the subject that it's from TML rather than ME or
CGIHTML, then the poster is a goober, it's off topic, and I might as well
just delete the message unread.  I'm just as guilty as everyone else about
subject headers, but...  Please don't diddle with the subject line.


david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #924
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 7 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 925



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What are sandcasters?
Re: What are sandcasters?
THUDD
THUDD Vote
THUDD Voting
Re: TSR's Collapse???
Re: Sandcasters
Re: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)
Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)
Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
Re: Filtering Messages
Techno Trousers
Re: Measurement Systems
[TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives
[TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives
[TML] Re: Don't let Virus munge the header! (was Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)
[TML] Re: SF films
[TML] THUDDD Voting
[TML] Vilani Conquest of the Earth, Modern Day
[TML] Games Shops 
[TML] Re: THUDD voting
Re: [TML] THUDDD Voting
[TML] Jumping in late.
[TML] THUDDD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:34:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Hi.

> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>

> 	This points out another VERY large advantage...this lets you SEE
> the lasers that are being fired at you. 

Yow, I hadn't thought of that. Nice insight! 

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:41:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: What are sandcasters?

Hi.

> From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)

>         Something else that ought to be looked into is the effect of sand
> on sensors; does it act like chaff?

Judging from its name, no. Crystaline particles of sand will refract and
diffuse light in the IR, visible, UV, and X-ray range. But particles
much smaller in diameter than the typical wavelength of radar (cm to
meter range) will have no effect on it.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:35:30 +0000
From: mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk
Subject: THUDD

I vote for the far trader, it was always the workhorse of my traveller 
campaigns.
Mark Jones

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:21:51 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: THUDD Vote

I'll cast my vote for the 800 ton "Happy Fun Ball" Merc Cruiser. But only if
that actually is the class name of the ship :)
                                                Allen

                                                        

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:17:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: THUDD Voting

I'd vote for the Mercenary Cruiser.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:05:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re: TSR's Collapse???

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Led Mirage wrote:
> I've heard Mayfair Game have gone belly up. In the slim chance that some
> of you don't know what Mayfair Games did, they've produced/import some of
> the best board games. For example, the "Rail" games, Cosmic Encounter,
> recently Settlers of Catan.

Just to clarify this.  Settlers of Catan was invented in Germany.  Maybe
Mayfair Games had the license for this game, but they didn't create it.
Any yes, it's a wonderful game.

Ciao,

				Thomas.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:01:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Sandcasters

Hi.

> From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>

> It is a device that shoots canisters of magnetic (or electrically charged)
> reflective ablative particles into the vacuum of space.

I hadn't realized that TNE said this. It is just one more case of previous
canon being overthrown by useless detail, I guess.

The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand
is supposed to ablate or reflect laser beams, it will be far more
effective to coat your ship with it as ARMOR, than to waste most of it
by shooting it into space.

Ablat/reflec sandcasters make as much sense in SciFi as hurling a shield
as a frisbee to intercept incoming arrows makes in fantasy. If the sand
ablates and reflects in space, it will ablate and reflect just as well
when coated on the surface of your ship. So keep it on the surface of your
ship, where it will be sure to do some good.

There are rules for this, you can find them in the ship design tables
under ARMOR. Sandcasters must be something different.

To reiterate a previous post, the only interpretation of sand I know of
that may make sense is that it REFRACTS laser light, which then diffuses
(de-focuses) into a less intense beam before it strikes your ship. If
you can think of another workable explanation, let me know.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 18:03 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: CCG's killed RPG's? (LONG)

In-Reply-To: <199702051541.KAA15656@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

<< Scapegoating CCG's is an easy thing to do (GDW did it frequently 
toward the end) but, in my opinion, is inaccurate. >>

CCGs aren't the *only* reason for the decline in the RPG industry, but 
they're certainly *a* reason.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 (was:Re: Some thoughts on QSDS)

In-Reply-To: <199702052003.OAA13711@weck.brokersys.com>

<< As for Dr. Who and Star Cops--this is where I thought you were 
joking.  I thought both of those were cheap space rip offs not even 
worth watching while you are working on your Traveller game. >>

<splutter!>

Exqueeze me? Bearing in mind DW started in 1963, what exactly is it 
supposed to be a rip off *of*? (And I won't mention that it lasted for 
longer than every version of ST put together, on a budget that wouldn't 
pay for Shatner's toupee). And as for SC, since this was one of the few 
series that was SCIENCE Fiction, rather than Science FICTION, the same 
question applies.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:58:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:33:25 -0500 (EST)
> From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
> 
> > I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to 
> > have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated 
> > mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV 
> > :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.) 
> 
> Its possible.  What does everyone else think?

What would it accomplish?  You can already distinguish messages to the TML
using their From: or Reply-to: fields, for any required manual or
automated filtering.  Adding a Subject: tag would just waste space that
could be used for meaningful content.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:27:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Filtering Messages

One other list I'm on has discussed this and decided not to while
a third has implemented it.  I prefer not to twiddle the subject
line as it takes up space that can be used for the subject (though
subjects on mailing lists are usually only marginally helpful)
and it only helps when the mail is received.  After that, it's
kind of redundant as all the TML mail goes in my TML folder.

Most email programs will filter mail.  Procmail can be used on
UNIX platforms, Eudora and others will filter on the PC side.  I
don't know the names, but on the other list, several free mail
programs with filters were mentioned.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:28:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: O Wise and Bearded One <aa4mwi@zen.sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Techno Trousers

Well tonight on the Sylean Home shopping network we present the
******TL-12 Personal Mobility Assistant****

The personal mobility assistant is wonder of modern Sylean innovation. 
Orginally developed to assist explorers on high-g worlds the PMA's have 
found use in a multitude of professions. Their ability to cling to sheer 
surfaces with a combination of air pressure and Stick-Tight(tm) composite 
materials has made the PMA a big hit with climbers and the DIY fraterninty. 
With a speed on land of over 50 mph these babys can get you from A to B 
in style you will become accoustomed to. 
The Personal Mobility Assistant can be yours for only 5 monthly payments 
of 500 credits.
Buy the PMA and see the world in style.



****Press Release****
We at the Sylean Home Shopping Network wish to deny the charges of 
irresponsibility after the use of our Personal Mobility Assitant, or 
"Techno Trousers" as they have been cristened by the gutter press, in the 
recent theft of the Paswa diamond from the Capital Museum of natural 
history. We deny all allegations that have been made and are currently 
reviewing our options of legal recourse.
******

Well anyone want to have a go a a FF&S write up of these. I don't want to 
as the mere thought of trying to design anything with FF&S gives me "the 
fear".

*** "I wonder if you can refuse to inherit the Earth?"          ***
***                                          Calvin and Hobbes  ***
*** Mark James Wilkin                                           ***
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:14:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Measurement Systems

> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 23:31:35 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> 
> The years of the different planets are different. And for various
> reasons having to due with gravitational interaction, their periods
> *cannot* be simple multiples of each other (if they were, they'd pull
> each other out of orbit). So that means that a given set of *relative*
> planetary positions isn't going to repeat very often. The absolute ones
> are even less likely to repeat. 

Not correct.  Simple (non-integer, but simple) multiple periods aren't
merely possible, there's a lovely example right in our own backyard.
Neptune and Pluto are in a 3:2 orbital resonance with one another...so
every three orbits of Neptune and two of Pluto, they arrive at (almost)
precisely the same *absolute* configuration!

So, if all you had to go on was Neptune and Pluto, you could only
determine your current time modulo (2 * Ppluto).  However, add *any*
non-resonant body to the system (any of the other planets, or even Triton
and Nereid around Neptune) and you can determine a unique time solution
with high confidence.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 15:32:34 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives

Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com> asked:
> BTW, as a separate question, I was looking for an official T4 answer
> to a common question(s):

The T4 Answer Team is at your service, go ahead ...

> 1) If you have a (say) J4 drive and do a J1, in T4 is all the jump
> fuel consumed, or only part of it?

In T4, only part of the jump fuel is consumed.  If you have 40% of your ship
as jump fuel tankage, you have enough fuel for 4 parsecs, no matter how you
slice it (4 1-parsec jumps, 2 2-parsec jumps, or any other combination).
The only variable is how long you take to get there.

In Classic Traveller (Book 2), starships consumed all of their jump fuel, no
matter how far the jump actually took the ship.  In the first edition of
High Guard, a device (the jump governor) was introduced which limited jump
fuel consumption (just as I described above).  The second edition of High
Guard made the jump governor standard equipment on all jump drives, and it's
been that way ever since (through the rest of CT, MT, and T:TNE).

> 2) If you have a J1 drive and enough fuel for 2 jumps,  can you stop
> in an 'empty' map hex enroute?

Yes.  A ship would normally spend about a day in deep space, so that the
engineers can perfom checks and maintainance on the jump drive before the
ship jumps again.  It is possible to jump again almost immediately (less
than an hour after emergence from jumpspace) if these safety procedures are
skipped.  The consequences of skipping the checks and maintainance are up to
the referee.

Since jump drives can navigate with relatively high precision, it's quite
possible to use tanker starships (or large cargo ships with fuel tanks
installed in the holds) to refuel ships in deep space.

> If #2 is disallowed, the J1/double-fuel 'Far Trader' would be disallowed.

It's valid, and cheaper (but slower) than the true J2 Far Trader.

> If #1 is allowed, a military ship could mount a J2 drive
> and be able to J1 out and back without having to refuel

This is a particularly valid tactic.  A battle fleet emerging from jumpspace
with enough remaining jump fuel to perform at least a J-1 has the option of
retreating by jumping, which can save lives and ships.

This tactic is at the core of the battleship versus battlerider debate.
Battleships can jump to safety if they find themselves in a loosing fight.
Riders MUST win, because both the riders and their carrier are vulnerable
during a the docking operation, and carriers that are attacked by enemy
warships may have to jump out or be destroyed, either case stranding their
riders in a hostile system.

On the other hand, ton for ton and credit for credit, a battle rider is
a more powerful combat warship than a battleship, since the battleship has
to haul jump drives and jump fuel tankage into battle.

> Anyways, if anyone saw this in the T4 rulebook where I missed
> it, please let me know and provide a page reference, please.

It may not be in the T4 rulebook.  ;-)


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:53:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives

> The T4 Answer Team is at your service, go ahead ...

Man, how do you keep a day job down while answering all these questions?
(looks at own web page) Oh. Never mind.

> In Classic Traveller (Book 2), starships consumed all of their jump fuel, no
> matter how far the jump actually took the ship.  In the first edition of
> High Guard, a device (the jump governor) was introduced which limited jump
> fuel consumption (just as I described above).  The second edition of High
> Guard made the jump governor standard equipment on all jump drives, and it's
> been that way ever since (through the rest of CT, MT, and T:TNE).

Ugggh. See, *this* is what I have trouble keep straight in my head.
I only own one copy of High Guard, so I can't do deltas to see what changed
when... this 'multiple canon' thing is more painful than being hit by
'multiple cannons'.

> > Anyways, if anyone saw this in the T4 rulebook where I missed
> > it, please let me know and provide a page reference, please.
> 
> It may not be in the T4 rulebook.  ;-)

Double Ugggh. Why not just print the email addresses for Wildstar,
TML and GDW-Beta in the front of the rulebook and be done with it?


Hey Joe, if the T4 Deluxe Edition ever comes out, tell IG to replace
the art with useful information, like this. Letting the whole world know
this is going to save a lot of refs a lot of hassle when they discover
they left their (referee) Fiat parked in the wrong spot.

Player: Hey! How did they get here! We have jump-2, they only have
        jump-1, they can't get here from there!
Ref: Um, they have extra fuel tankage and did j-1s.
Player: We wanted to do that last week and you said we couldn't!
Ref: Uh, well, um... see, I bought this new adventure and it says you
     can, so, um, they can now. Oops.
<sounds of limbs being ripped off of ref, etc>

Thanks for the answer though.
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 15:28:06 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: [TML] Re: Don't let Virus munge the header! (was Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

At 10:00 AM 2/7/97 -0600, David wrote:
>I think that we all should be in the habit of changing our subjects to be
>more descriptive of content, as well as good quoting practices (i.e. not
>quoting the whole @#$&ing post to add ONE line!), but adding TML so that
>someone who's not going to read the posts anyway can filter them better
>just annoys me...  I'm on two other lists that do that, I really dislike
>it.  If I can't tell from the subject that it's from TML rather than ME or
>CGIHTML, then the poster is a goober, it's off topic, and I might as well
>just delete the message unread.  I'm just as guilty as everyone else about
>subject headers, but...  Please don't diddle with the subject line.

Personally (note that word), I would like them.  I run about 12 mailing
lists now and I have to receive them to make sure they are going out.  All
of the TSR based lists use the [name] tag and when I am scanning my Elm
mail looking for non-list mail, it is easy to tell what needs to be
ignored.  When I was on the majordomo list, I couldn't tell if messages
were problems people were posting to the majordomo list, or intended for me
to deal with without reading the message.

Also filtering doesn't mean not reading.  It kinda means threading in a
very limited scope.  When I want to read TML mail, I don't want photography
mail interspersed in between.  I filter TML to a folder, Photography to a
folder, then read things a topic at a time.

There is a thread going on on the list right now "TSR's collapse".  While
the subject is descriptive enough, I can't tell if it is coming from
Traveller, Dark Conspiracy, or Forgotten Realms.

But, I prefer to run this list not in a dictorial manner, but rather a
somewhat democratic manner.  Its your list, I just deal with the bad
addresses.  That is why I want to have the list try a couple of days with
the tag, and then discuss the various methods and then put it to a vote.
It is the most fair thing.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:39:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: SF films

> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:21:57 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>
> Star Wars is a timeless story about heroism, which is why it's great to see
> it on the big screen again, but i have to disagree that we haven't had
> anything good since then.

Yeah, Star Wars (the whole trilogy) is really more an illustration of
Joseph Campbell's _The Hero with a Thousand Faces_ than SF; you could very
easily recast the entire thing in terms of medieval fantasy and not drop a
single plot point.  This is *not* a criticism, by the way!  Whole I prefer
my SF rather hard-edged and science rich, Star Wars operates in an
entirely different category, and within that category it's brilliant.

I actually saw the reissued version last night.  Am I alone in thinking
that the new footage sucked bigtime?  The scene with Jabba had Han Solo
reiterating what he'd just told the bounty hunter in the bar *word for
word* -- it was *so* clearly a case of dialog being moved from unused
scene A to substituted scene B in the original.  Also, Jabba looked
utterly unrealistic; his movements made no sense.  Mos Eisely was crowded
with new creatures and droids...many of which had inconsistent shadows,
and all of which you could *plainly* tell were not being reacted to by the
original actors in the scenes.  It ended up reminding me of Toon Town in
"Who Framed Roger Rabbit?".  

I could go on.  *Sigh*.  I hate it when people mess with perfection.  I
wish Lucas had just added "Episode IV: A New Hope" to the opening spiel,
cleaned up the matte lines, and left it at that.  Ah, well. :(

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 21:12:12 UT
From: "Arthur Murphy" <MycroftHolmes@msn.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD Voting

I hereby cast my vote for the mercenary cruiser, whatever the tonnage or 
configuration.  But my suggestion for design mod would be to carry a full 
company of troops minimum.
Design Question: is it economical to dedicate a starship hull to the 
transport, insertion and support of only a platoon of Light infantry?
_____________________________________________________________________________
Arthur Murphy
Mycroftholmes@msn.com
Arthurm@ultinet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:36:16 -0500
From: Scott Ripley <abiscott@pop.erols.com>
Subject: [TML] Vilani Conquest of the Earth, Modern Day

Let it be knows that the 2nd Imperium is live and well and parcelling up the
earth as we speak.  As evidence, I present the real Estate office I saw at
Ocean City, MD, Last Summer:

VILANI REAL ESTATE: BARGAIN PRICES FOR ESTATES.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 21:25:41 -0800
From: Richard talbot <Richardt@post.almac.co.uk>
Subject: [TML] Games Shops 

Hi Folks

Im heading out to Boston from Scotland for 3 weeks holiday but plan on
stocking up on T4 stuff as it is kind of hard to get in th UK ( and
bloody expensive).  Can any Americans give me the address of a good
games shop in central Boston or thereby. 

BTW, how can Imperium get away with charging 22.95 dollars for CSC, i
seen it my own game shop and it was bloody 17.00 pounds sterling and
although it looks not bad im not paying that.  


___________________________________________
In the darkness there shall be light......
In the light there shall be fire........
And so all shall end..................
___________________________________________
Richard Talbot from Alloa, Scotland
Homepage:HTTP://www.almac.co.uk/personal/rtalbot/index.htm
Email: richardt@post.almac.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 13:45:10 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD voting

Ethan Henry wrote:
<<THUDD and blunder deleted>>
> 
> BTW, as a separate question, I was looking for an official T4 answer
> to a common question(s):
> 
> 1) If you have a (say) J4 drive and do a J1, in T4 is all the jump
> fuel consumed, or only part of it?

I have always ruled that a ship may do a jump _less_ than its jump
number (but greater than zero parsecs; leave the microjump can-o-worms
CLOSED) and consume a volume of fuel = (.1dT)(Parsecs Jumped). IOW, if a
far trader makes a jump-1 with a full fuel load, it uses half of its
j-fuel, and need not refuel for a second J-1. 

  
> 
> 2) If you have a J1 drive and enough fuel for 2 jumps,  can you stop
> in an 'empty' map hex enroute?

In my games, I allow this practice. While there are a lot of technoid
matters that the astrogator must consider involving the relative motion
of the destination system, and the "age" of EM data from navigational
marker stars/phenomena, the realm of those considerations, for game
purporses lie within the definition of the character's skills.  
> 
> Now, I realize that I'm allowed to come up with whatever answer I want
> to these questions, but I'd like to know what the official T4 party
> line is. Why? Because it can make a signifigant impact on ship designs
> of course. If #2 is disallowed, the J1/double-fuel 'Far Trader' would
> be disallowed. if #1 is allowed, a military ship could mount a J2 drive
> and be able to J1 out and back without having to refuel, or do a J2
> if necessary, in 1 week instead of 2 (assuming #2 is allowed).

I believe these to be the official party line, but I can't quote chapter
and verse.

Consider this concept from TNE (I know it isn't T4, and I hear some
teeth gnashing at the mention of this three-letter word, but it _is_
Trav): the _Nemesis_-class cruisers mentioned in the _Regency
Sourcebook_ (which originally appeared in a TD). The _Nemesis_ ships
were given huge meson guns, black globe generators, J-3 drives and
tankage for J-5. Mission: jump to a system 2 parsecs away where the
Zhodani invaders were, turn the globe all the way up, drift in along a
vector toward the enemy, drop globe and open fire from ambush once in
range, then get the hell out.

- -- 
- --Rich Ostorero		http://home.inreach.com/lordbasl/index.html
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:52:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDDD Voting

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Arthur Murphy wrote:

> I hereby cast my vote for the mercenary cruiser, whatever the tonnage or 
> configuration.  But my suggestion for design mod would be to carry a full 
> company of troops minimum.
> Design Question: is it economical to dedicate a starship hull to the 
> transport, insertion and support of only a platoon of Light infantry?

It would REALLY depend on the platoon, now wouldn't it ;-) A platoon of
your average mudfoots, no way, a platoon of Dorsai, now....that's an
enTIREly different story.

BTW I cast a vote for the Happy Fun Ball design competition....ever since
that was mentioned, I haven't been able to get the phrase out of my head!

Also, someone, I think Leonard, posted a list of H. Beam Piper books, the
ships in _Space Viking_ probably are the inspiration for the original
Mercenary Cruiser.  I'm gonna reread my (well thumbed) copy this
weekend...there are some detailed descriptions of the ships in there.
Also, IIRC, the plot wasn't really all that much about re-civilizing lost
worlds as raiding them for their goodies; it was the space vikings, IMO,
who were re-civilized.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:55:46 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] Jumping in late.

>BTW, this is a problem for navigation. A planet orbiting at 30 km/sec
>will move over 100,000 km in an hour. 

I've always played it that part of the success at the astrogators skill
allowed the time to be closer to the average (168 hrs?).  That would prevent
the below, however...

>In fact, given this, I'd say that it's possible to calculate your exit
>point "exactly". The uncertainty in position comes from the *time*
>uncertainty for the jump exit (ie you came out where you aimed, but the
>planet has moved!)

This gave me a really interesting idea.  Yeah, I know it is a rip off from
ST-DS9, and I know it is probably way out of hard sci-fi, but I thought it
would be neat...

Say the above happened to that planet they found in DS9 where the planet
phased into an energy form for part of it's orbit.  I worked nights for so
long and I didn't get to watch DS9 much, but I recall a planet that Dax (I
think) met a guy on and fell in love with only to find that in a few days he
would be phased into energy.  Well, what if our dear scout vessel was headed
out to survey a new system that had a GG and a single planet.  The
astrogator sets the coordinates and executes a perfect jump.  One week later
the ship arrives and the planet is gone.  The system only contains a GG, not
even any debris.  Instant paranoid scout ship. :)

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:55:48 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD

Well, I volunteered to help Roderick with the THUDD work for this month, and
if I interpret his meaning correctly, he will be unable to continue the
contest after this month, so I am taking up the baton so to speak.  I need
to get some info from those interested in participating in the contest.

1.  Please send me a list of what 10 ships, or ship concepts you want to do.
This should eliminate the need for voting on what ship we want to do since
all the votes will already be in.  Please send it to me and don't clutter
the list with the post.  I will post a not regarding what ships have what
votes once every week or so.  Try to get your votes in as soon as possible,
but I will take votes through Feb 17.  In the subject please type "THUDDD
Vote List"

2.  There has been some discussion of problems with the USP format.  Send me
a blank USP model of what you think would be a good complete problem free
USP.  I will weed through these and come up with the most complete
reasonable structure for the USP.  Please put "THUDD USP" in the subject line.

3.  I have a few ideas about how to put these on the web for use later.  If
you are interested in posting some of these on your web site as part of the
official THUDDD page, send me a note with "THUDDD" somewhere in the subject
line. (Unofficial posting to web pages needs to be approved by the designer
of the ship.)


I'm sure I'll think up some other ideas for how to make this a 'mo betta'
contest as we go along and find where the rough spots are, but until then, I
think this is enough.  I know Roderick and I have talked about a few things
and I'll let him tell you about those when he is ready.  I'm going to work
on the main THUDDD web site next week, but no promises. :)

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #925
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 8 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 926



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Re: THUDD
[TML] Inconsistent design sequences 
[TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives
[TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)
[TML] Re: THUDDD voting so far...
[TML] Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #925
[TML] Sandcasters
Re: [TML] Vilani Conquest of the Earth, Modern Day
[TML] Re: Techno Trousers
[TML] THUDDD voting so far.
[TML] THUDDD admin details...
Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers
[TML] for your disappointment
[TML] Rs: Sandcasters Useless?
Re: [TML] Re: SF films
[TML] Re: Sandcasters
Re: [TML] for your disappointment
[TML] Re: Techno Trousers
[TML] Animals in T4
[TML] materials
[TML] Re: TSR's Troubles
Re: [TML] Animals in T4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:20:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD

I'm voting for the 200 ton Far Trader too. This is a popular ship, and 
what I'd most like to see is a whole series of versions, if possible from 
TL 11-15.  This is the type of ship that I would assume would be built 
all over the Imperium, all through its history.  As such, I imagine there 
would be minor and moderate variations depending on TL, planet of origin, 
and from short-lived design fads.

The Imperium is *huge* I'd like THUDD not to have one winner, but a 
instead a top 10 list.


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:26:12 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: [TML] Inconsistent design sequences 

My biggest problem with T4 as a whole is tasks; Second to that isthe
inconsistency of the design sequece for vehicles vs starships.

This problem was inherent to FF&S as well, but nowhere near as well.

MT DIDN'T have this problem; it had two different, incompatable combat
systems; one for people and vehicles, one for starship vs starship.
Starship vs vehicle used the vehicle rules.

Is there any hope for one, fully integrated, all scales covered design
sequence? If not, Count me out on T4. I'll wait for T5... and I'm sure
there will be one, due to the rabidity of the players here...


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 17:33:28 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives

Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com> wrote:
> Double Ugggh. Why not just print the email addresses for Wildstar,
> TML and GDW-Beta in the front of the rulebook and be done with it?

Because then they'd have to pay me real money to do this?

> this is going to save a lot of refs a lot of hassle when they discover
> they left their (referee) Fiat parked in the wrong spot.

Something I heartily reccommend to every referee: keep a campaign notebook
where you note not only what happened in the campaign, but what rulings
and interpretations you had to make, details you've filled in, and so on.
Periodically, you can review it, and you'll find that you can "mine" the
campaign's own history for adventure seeds.

It's neat when the PCs (finally) realize that the person who is giving them
so much trouble now is the very same Etaoin Shrdlu that they swindled as
part of a scam they did more than a year ago.

You can also use this to keep your rulings and "house rules" straight.  At
one point, I even typed up a neat copy of some of my notes and gave them as
a handout to the players.  Kind of a "FAQ" on the campaign.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   "Dreams do not vanish, so long as people do
                                    not abandon them."  --- Phantom F. Harlock

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 97 18:03:51 PST
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

I like the TML header.

JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:08:42 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDDD voting so far...

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
> 
> All right... here's where we stand on ship class so far:
> 
> Merc Cruiser: 4     Far Trader: 1     Corsair: 2     Heavy Fighter: 1
> Patrol Cruiser: 1

Merc Cruiser: 4+1

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:07:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #925

>From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
>
>I hadn't realized that TNE said this. It is just one more case of previous
>canon being overthrown by useless detail, I guess.
>
>The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand
>is supposed to ablate or reflect laser beams, it will be far more
>effective to coat your ship with it as ARMOR, than to waste most of it
>by shooting it into space.
>
>Ablat/reflec sandcasters make as much sense in SciFi as hurling a shield
>as a frisbee to intercept incoming arrows makes in fantasy. If the sand
>ablates and reflects in space, it will ablate and reflect just as well
>when coated on the surface of your ship. So keep it on the surface of your
>ship, where it will be sure to do some good.
>To reiterate a previous post, the only interpretation of sand I know of
>that may make sense is that it REFRACTS laser light, which then diffuses
>(de-focuses) into a less intense beam before it strikes your ship. If
>you can think of another workable explanation, let me know.

Later in my post I said that it does refract it.  I apologize for the error
in the beginning, but the sand burning away will dissipate energy as fill it
reflecting or absorbing it.  The advantage that 'sand' has over being
painted on your hull is that of redundancy.  If you paint it on your hull,
it gets burned off after a blast--just like armor.  But if you throw it out
into space, you can constantly renew it after every laser blast.  That is
why higher TL sandcasters have a higher canister capacity, and a better beam
reduction.  

Sandcasters are viable, thought the reference to a frisbee is poor.  A
better analogy is trying to shoot a arrow through a bamboo thicket.  It is
easier to get behind the thicket, than to wear it (like armor.)  

When you get down to it, the only important parts of a sandcaster are that
it disrupts the beam, it is renewable, it is controlled by a field (B or
gravitic) and is an active defense.

The actual writing from TNE is as follows (I paraphrased the stuff above):

  "A sandcaster is a turret-mounted anti-laser defensive system.  THe turret
projects an electromagnetic field and uses the field to hold in place a
cloud of highly reflective crystals of silicon, called sand (although it is
artifically manufactured, not the kind you find on beaches.)"

It's a little brief, and does leave out the part someone else mentioned that
at higher levels gravitic control comes into play with the crystals.  

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:21:12 -0500 (EST)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: [TML] Sandcasters

Robert Flammang said:
>Hi.
	Hi. :-)

>The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand
>is supposed to ablate or reflect laser beams, it will be far more
>effective to coat your ship with it as ARMOR, than to waste most of it
>by shooting it into space.
>To reiterate a previous post, the only interpretation of sand I know of
>that may make sense is that it REFRACTS laser light, which then >diffuses
>(de-focuses) into a less intense beam before it strikes your ship. If
>you can think of another workable explanation, let me know.

	Leonard recently posted the important details of some stuff that 
came off rec.arts.sf.science sometime last year and which he was kind 
enough to repost here for us at that time.
	In this interpretation, "sand" is made up of little transparent
beads that work like the beads in road roadway reflectors that reflect 
light straight back to its source.  Since no reflector is perfect, these 
little beads will melt instantaneously due to the power of the laser.  
Since they are in space, though, the transparent liquid will maintain its 
shape and continue reflecting until it is vaporised.  In the gaseous 
state, the sand is opaque and absorbs energy until it becomes a plasma.  
Plasmas are even more opaque and capable of absorbing large amounts of 
energy.
	I can think of a few reasons why this material might be more 
effective as "sand" than as armor.
	(1)  Having reflective stuff all over your ship makes you more 
		visible to certain sensors.
	(2)  Large amounts of surface area have to be used for other things 
		(like antennae) and can't be coated.
	(3)  If the beads are in contact with your ship, then when they 
		turn to plasma they are going to transmit their energy to 
		your hull.  Because they turn to plasma essentially 
		instantaneously, they are going to basically explode. This is 
		likely to be less damaging than the laser, but having 
		parts of your hull turn to plasma is likely to be something 
		you'd rather avoid.
	
	This is not to say that this is the one true way, but it's at 
least a plausible explanation.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:34:32 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Vilani Conquest of the Earth, Modern Day

Scott Ripley wrote:
> 
> Let it be knows that the 2nd Imperium is live and well and parcelling up the
> earth as we speak.  As evidence, I present the real Estate office I saw at
> Ocean City, MD, Last Summer:
> 
> VILANI REAL ESTATE: BARGAIN PRICES FOR ESTATES.

Did their salespeople go around commenting on how tasty the locals looked?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:01:37 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

Mark James Wilkin wrote:

{snip]
>******
>
>Well anyone want to have a go a a FF&S write up of these. I don't want to
>as the mere thought of trying to design anything with FF&S gives me "the
>fear".


        I'm afraid that FF&S is grievously deficient in that it lacks a
section on fashion design.  Wildstar, will this glaring lack be rectified
in NAH?

:)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:01:34 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] THUDDD voting so far.

Here is where the voting stands as of 20:00 Montreal Time on Friday night.
It's a dead heat between the Far Trader and the Merc Cruiser.  If it comes
down to a tie, I'll resolve it in a random fashion by asking my
(non-Travelling) girlfriend to decide.  Unless I receive any strenuous
objections, in the name of openness and transparency I will also post the
names of people who voted for which designs (so that if you're really
disgruntled, go mailbomb somebody else :>)

The voting stands at:

Merc Cruiser: 10

Far Trader: 10

Corsair: 2

Heavy Fighter: 1

Patrol Cruiser: 1


        If it comes down to the Far Trader, I will keep the specification
really simple, such as "A commercially viable TL-12 200 Td merchant vessel
with a jump range greater than 1"; this ought to produce an interesting
variety of useful vessels for us as it leaves considerable latitude in
M-drive, J-Drive, armament, etc, with the limiting factor of commercial
viability keeping people from loading them up with PA guns and 6G M-drives
:).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:01:29 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] THUDDD admin details...

Paul Walker wrote:

>
>Well, I volunteered to help Roderick with the THUDD work for this month, and
>if I interpret his meaning correctly, he will be unable to continue the
>contest after this month, so I am taking up the baton so to speak.  I need
>to get some info from those interested in participating in the contest.


        Pretty much: I have to carpetbomb the entire province with CV's,
write a midterm, go to job interviews, work on a term essay, work on an
extra-credit paper, study on my other courses, thrash out details for
breaking my lease and moving at the end of March, work, run a T4 campaign,
and keep my girlfriend from leaving me :).

        Basically, I'll administer this one with Paul doing the backup
judging, and do backup judging for any subsequent THUDDD's, but I can't
really afford the time to continuously run them...


>
>1.  Please send me a list of what 10 ships, or ship concepts you want to do.
>This should eliminate the need for voting on what ship we want to do since
>all the votes will already be in.  Please send it to me and don't clutter
>the list with the post.  I will post a not regarding what ships have what
>votes once every week or so.  Try to get your votes in as soon as possible,
>but I will take votes through Feb 17.  In the subject please type "THUDDD
>Vote List"


        Something that I'd thought you might want to try is this dodge
called cumulative voting that you see in some corporate constitutions;
Essentially, you vote for each seat on the board one at a time rather than
all at once.  All the votes for the losing candidates get carried over onto
the next seat and are counted in the voting for that next seat, so that
even small minorities will eventually get a director or two on the board...

        It strikes me that this would work well here.  Right now the voting
is shaping up as a tight race between the Far Trader and the Merc Cruiser.
Doing cumulative voting would almost guarantee that the losing popular
candidate would be done next...

        But hey.  The next THUDDDs are your baby; do'em any way you want :).


>
>2.  There has been some discussion of problems with the USP format.  Send me
>a blank USP model of what you think would be a good complete problem free
>USP.  I will weed through these and come up with the most complete
>reasonable structure for the USP.  Please put "THUDD USP" in the subject line.


        Something that I want to reiterate to everyone is that putting the
hull shape and configuration  (i.e. shape and configuration, such as
airframe wedge) in the USP is good and highly biscuit-worthy.  I agree with
Paul that a standardized USP with everything laid out neatly is a very good
thing: it makes everybody's life a little easier.

        Here is what I will be specifying as the THUDDD USP format (so
everyone copy and save this baby!):

<descriptive notes go here>

<name>-class <ship type>

Tons (Td) : ### <shape/config>  Volume (M^3): ##        Cost (Mcr): ##
Crew      : ##   ^^^^^^^^^^^^      Pass. (H): ##          Pass (L): ##
Cargo (Td): ##                      Controls: <type>            TL: ##

Size Rating: ##                            Jump Drive Rating: ##
Fire Control Rating: ##           Maneuver Drive Rating (Gs): ##
Battery 1: <type> ##/##/##/##             Power Plant Rating: ##
Battery 2: <type> ##/##/##/##                    Fuel Rating: ## <Scoop/Refine*>
Battery 3: <type> ##/##/##/##            Meson Screen Rating: ##
Battery 4: <type> ##/##/##/##              Sandcaster Rating: ##
Battery 5: <type> ##/##/##/##                  Damper Rating: ##
Battery 6: <type> ##/##/##/##                  Sensor Rating: ##A, ##P, ##J
Battery 7: <type> ##/##/##/##                  Armour Rating: ##
                                            Structure Rating: ##

* if the ship has these capabilities

<USP's for small craft carried go here>

<design specs for auxiliary vehicles carried go here>


        We of course can vary this for whatever reason if people find it
inconvenient.

[snippage]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:47:23 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

Mark James Wilkin wrote:

>Well anyone want to have a go a a FF&S write up of these. I don't want to
>as the mere thought of trying to design anything with FF&S gives me "the fear".

I have been working on such a device, I was going to post them as the official "Wrong 
Trousers" stats

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:46:01 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] for your disappointment

Pardon the crappy spacing, this did look good on the original document.
I had been hoping to be able to present to the list the new T4 stats for the AHL, amidst a 
fanfare of hurrahs. The sad news is the AHL is impossible under Starships due in almost 
whole part to the surface area requirement of power plants. Work it out, a 60000 ton cruiser 
requires a 60000 MW thruster plate, which in turn requires a 60000 MW power plant. The 
requirement just for this is 66000 m2. A 60000 ton ship only has 63000 m2 of hull space. 
Even a lousy 1G thruster requires a total of 33000 m2 for necessary power plant and 
thrusters. Even before I gave up, I had to reduce the weapons, generally halving the 
number, and dropping the partacc bays, I reduced the number of fighters by one-third. That 
is when I added up the area remaining, and proclaimed unto the world "aaah, shit, it ain't 
gonna work!"
BTW, surface area is area remaining on this form

Azhanti High Lightning Class Frontier Cruiser General Data, TL E
Displacement: 58400/60000 tons (size 10)	Length: Main body 319m, 367m with Gooseneck	

Summary:			Vol 		Power		Price 		Surface Area	Crew and Notes
Hull SL Slab hull 36cm	22680		--		635.04		63000		Arm 120 Str 47
Thrusters 2 			30000  	60000		3750		57000		En 120 Mx 15
Jump 5 			50400 		--		15120		40200		En 252 Mx 25.2
Jump Fuel			420000	 --		--		40200		
Ext. Life Support 		613.72		153.43 	3.8357		40200
320 x Emerg Low Berth 	2240 		0.16		8		40200		Med 16
Artificial Gravity		8400 		4200		420		40200		
600 x Airlocks 		1800		0.6		3		39000
2 x Large Cargo Hatches 	--		--		0.04 		38960
Missile Lockers (500)		3500		--		--		38960
Scoop 10% of load 		--				63 		37385
TL A Flt Avionics		0.001		0.1		0.25		37385
TLA Terfol Avionics		0.05		0.02		0.02		37384.8
3 x TLE CompFib		48		3		30		37384.8
3 x Electronics Shop 		252  		1.8 		3		37384.8
3 x Machine Shop 		420 		3 		6		37384.8
3 x Lab 			336 		2.4 		15		37384.8
6 x Sick Bay 			672  		4.8 		30		37384.8
4 x MaserCom 1K AU  	0.4 		2.4		0.72 		37380.8	El 4
2 x RadioCom 1K AU 	0.2 		40		0.3		36980.8	El 2
4 x 400 ton Ext SL grapple	6720		--		13.44		32690.8
6 x 20 ton Int. Min.Hanger 	3696 		--		1.19		32268.4 
40 x 10 ton Int. Min Hangar 	11200  	--		4.4  		12668.4
2 x 10 ton Launch Tubes 	7000	  	70		1.06  		12472.4	Mx 16.83
50 x Scaster Turret (40)	2100		50 		45		11972.4	Gn 50 
50 x Msl Barb			4200		7.5		5.5		11172.4	Gn 50 
30 x Ndamper (30k)		2028		180		122.4		10992.4	Gn 30 
50 x 700 MJ Hvy Laser	4200		1297.5		160		10192.4	Gn 50 
14 x MFD			211.4		25.2		211.4		10164.4
Meson screen			3000		150		300		8664.4		
Fuel Purif (84000/6 hrs)	21000		420		11.76		8664.4		
TL-F Spinal 15MJ Meson	35887.5	2083.33	3615		8439.4		Gn 31.05 
2 x AEMS 480K km		10		50		20		8419.4		El 2 
2 x Passive EMS 210K km	186		0.06		102 		6619.4		El 2	
2 x Densitometer  		18		1		2		6519.4		El 2
2 x Neutrino Sensor  		10		0.02		6		6519.4		El 2
2 x EMSJam.480K km 	10		100		40		6479.4		El 2
100 x sm. staterooms-troops	2800		0.05		4		6479.4
hololink controls		882		63		126		6479.4

NOTES:
no contra grav 
Meson Gun 10:613-20:433-40:210-80:106-ROF 50, Lasers ROF 50

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:57:09 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] Rs: Sandcasters Useless?

Before I go any further, let me say that this post caught me at a very bad
time and everything I'm about to say I will probably regret when I get over
being upset about other things.  With that in mind, please don't take
offense at what will probably be somewhat to very offensive.

>> It is a device that shoots canisters of magnetic (or electrically charged)
>> reflective ablative particles into the vacuum of space.
>
>I hadn't realized that TNE said this. It is just one more case of previous
>canon being overthrown by useless detail, I guess.

This really pissed me off!!!!  You mistakenly assume that the point made by
FFS is useless detail because you are so stuck on either following the
letter of the rule or bashing TNE for all your worth that you can't even
begin to use a hint of creativity about this.  I have no idea about previous
canon, and I really don't care.  ***NEWS FLASH***  Marc Miller IS Traveller
and he said T4 will use a modified form of FFS.  Guess what that means.
Canon is now what TNE's FFS said.  Like it or lump it, but when the owner of
the rights to a product decide to change it, that makes it officially
changed.  You can deny it all you want to, but the fact remains that useful
information that you call "useless detail" is not a overthrowing canon, it
IS canon.  The man with the authority to say so has said so!

You are probably so blinded by your hatred of TNE that you are unable to
accept the fact that what FFS said about sandcasters might just possibly be
useful so I won't even begin to try to explain.  However...

>The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand
>is supposed to ablate or reflect laser beams, it will be far more
>effective to coat your ship with it as ARMOR, than to waste most of it
>by shooting it into space.
>
>Ablat/reflec sandcasters make as much sense in SciFi as hurling a shield
>as a frisbee to intercept incoming arrows makes in fantasy. If the sand
>ablates and reflects in space, it will ablate and reflect just as well
>when coated on the surface of your ship. So keep it on the surface of your
>ship, where it will be sure to do some good.

You are free to use this variant, but as I understand it the Ablat/reflec
coating will be seriously degraded by micrometeor impacts.  I am not an
engineer, so I can't talk to the reality of viability of sandcasters, but if
you want reality, don't play a game!

>There are rules for this, you can find them in the ship design tables
>under ARMOR. Sandcasters must be something different.

To my knowledge (and I very well could be wrong) the current rules for T4 as
explained in SSDS and QSDS and the posts by Dave and Wildstar about the FFS
changes and FFS itself do not have any such allowances for starships.

>To reiterate a previous post, the only interpretation of sand I know of
>that may make sense is that it REFRACTS laser light, which then diffuses
>(de-focuses) into a less intense beam before it strikes your ship. If
>you can think of another workable explanation, let me know.

I believe that FFS states the the beam burns its way through the cloud of
"sand" (not sand) and that is how it works.

Again, I apologize for the tone of this post, but I am seriously SICK of
people knocking TNE because they don't like it when in reality, they just
aren't creative enough to use it.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:25:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Led Mirage <lmirage@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: SF films

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Craig Berry wrote:

> I could go on.  *Sigh*.  I hate it when people mess with perfection.  I
> wish Lucas had just added "Episode IV: A New Hope" to the opening spiel,
> cleaned up the matte lines, and left it at that.  Ah, well. :(
> 
I didn't mind that Mos Eisley scene that much, with the bad Jabba and all.
What I REALLY wish was for them to re-do some of the battle scenes on the
Death Star. Especially the "targeting" scenes. Those vector graphics are
really horrible and very Seventies.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:11:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Sandcasters

Quoth Robert Flammang:
> > From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>
> > It is a device that shoots canisters of magnetic (or electrically charged)
> > reflective ablative particles into the vacuum of space.
> 
> The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand
> is supposed to ablate or reflect laser beams, it will be far more
> effective to coat your ship with it as ARMOR, than to waste most of it
> by shooting it into space.

A shame, isn't it, that you've thus been forced to cover up all your
antenna elements?  Too bad that lasers keep boiling your turret housings
off the hull when the beam catches the worn portion at the seam of the
rotator cuff.  Our naval architects are still working on how to mount
baffles of the stuff in front of the thruster plate exhaust.

The flexibility and cheapness of fired sand canisters makes a LOT of
sense, if you stop and think about it in practical terms.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:19:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] for your disappointment

Re: the difficulties of building a SSDS Azhanti High Lightning....

I thought we were allowed to ignore power plant area, to avoid precisely
just such difficulties?  (I've included it in most of my designs, just
because I haven't done a truly "tight" one yet... maybe the radiator area
could become optional, allowing less frequent power plant maintenance?)

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:57:02 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

At 09:47 PM 2/6/97 +0000, you wrote:

>I have been working on such a device, I was going to post them as the
official "Wrong 
>Trousers" stats
>
I am so happy I get to host The Silly Era.. sub-orbital pogo sticks, Wallis
and Grommit tech..

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:07:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: [TML] Animals in T4

Hi,

I've been making up an animal chart and ran into a problem.  It's not too
important, but is kind of a good visual detail to have correct.

On page 142, under the heading of Animal Characteristics, the entry for 'A',
that is, attack says that it will read '0', meaning it will attack if a
special criteria is met (does this mean, like the puncer one says surprised?).

Also, on page 152, under the Encounter table for Regina, the characteristics
are written, for the first four animal in the formt A/F/S  Then, it switches
to F/A/S.  Is this important, or just an editing problem?  

I'd appreciate answers to these questions, as I'm want to make my adventure
entry int he IG contest be correctly formated.

Also, a question regarding task.  What is the proper format for their
inclusion in the text in T4.  Should they be seperated from the text, or
embedded?

Thanks,

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:41:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] materials

Hello,

The other day, the complete list of Materials from the CSC or other manual
was posted.  I in my infinite mindlessness forgot to save that digest.
Could you please repost that if you read this, or send it to me direct.  I
would be very grateful.  

It had materials listed by toughness, price, weight, and TL.  

Thankyou in advance,

Jeff Brawley

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:56:04 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: TSR's Troubles

I clipped most of yr well-thought post about CCG and SFRPG - For all that
I'm a Traveller, a Star Wars sale beats a CCG sale!!!  

- - Bill

PS - There are a few of us out there whose ISPs strip off routing
information - when I look at my routing path, I see only a message number
assigned by my ISP.  Even if I wanted to reply privately to Andy's excellent
post, I cannot - my only venue is the TML. As a favor to those of us in this
situation, please, when you reply to a post on the TML, include a signature
block that includes your email address!


>... My one worry is that the revival in Star Wars this year will see
>more newbies buying that than Traveller. Let's hope we can hold on to the
>coat-tails!
>




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 20:12:00 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [TML] Animals in T4

At 22:07 7/02/1997 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi,

>I've been making up an animal chart and ran into a problem.  It's not too
>important, but is kind of a good visual detail to have correct.

>On page 142, under the heading of Animal Characteristics, the entry for 'A',
>that is, attack says that it will read '0', meaning it will attack if a
>special criteria is met (does this mean, like the puncer one says surprised?).

>Also, on page 152, under the Encounter table for Regina, the characteristics
>are written, for the first four animal in the formt A/F/S  Then, it switches
>to F/A/S.  Is this important, or just an editing problem?  

The A/F/S format is for carnivores and the F/A/S format is for
herbivores. Carnivores role for attack then flee, whereas
herbivores role for flee then attack.

>I'd appreciate answers to these questions, as I'm want to make my adventure
>entry int he IG contest be correctly formated.

>Also, a question regarding task.  What is the proper format for their
>inclusion in the text in T4.  Should they be seperated from the text, or
>embedded?

I'm not sure if there's an "official" format for this. I've always
imbedded them in paranethis e.g.
"...unless the lock is picked (difficult, dex)...."

Hope these help.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #926
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 8 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 927



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Solar system generator now available
[TML] Character Generation Worksheet
[TML] Character Generation Aids - Intro
[TML] Character Gen Procedure I
[TML] mercenary cruiser
[TML] Dt discrepancy
[TML] Yet More Book Recommendations...
[TML] "The Traveller"
[TML] Still Catching Up...
[TML] Backmans partial space combat system
[TML] Re: THUDD announcement
[TML] Pogo sticks...
Re: [TML] Re: THUDD
[TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?
Re: [TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives
[TML] Re: non-Spacecraft Weapon Design

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:40:15 -0800
From: cwebb@ctainforms.com (Christopher E. Webb)
Subject: [TML] Solar system generator now available

After a crash course in composing a web page, I have made my revised edition
of Accrete available.  It's a DOS based program that simulates solar system
formation.  I've added in a couple of features the original didn't have (like
moons) and expanded the output to include UWP stats.  Since I originally was
going to use the program just for myself, it's a little rough-edged and I have
not exhaustively tested it.  Anyone who wants to look at it (and provide some
suggestions) is welcome to.  It's at

http://www.mscomm.com/~cwebb

Enjoy,

Christopher Webb
cwebb@mail.ctainforms.com
WSW

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 01:31:17 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Character Generation Worksheet

 
 ||CHARACTERISTIC |Score||  TRAVELLER CHARACTER GENERATION WORKSHEET
 ||===============|=====||
 ||STRENGTH       |     ||  NAME _________________________
 ||_______________|_____||
 ||DEXTERITY      |     ||  RACE ___________   AGE _____  SEX _____
 ||_______________|_____||
 ||ENDURANCE      |     ||  HOMEWORLD ___________  BACKGROUND DM'S _____   

 ||_______________|_____||
 ||INTELLEGENCE   |     || ||HOMEWORLD DATA  *required entry             
 ||_______________|_____|| ||=========================================== 
 ||EDUCATION      |     || || PORT| SIZE|ATMO*|HYDRO|POPUL| LAW*|TECH*|| 
 ||_______________|_____|| ||=====|===/=|===/=|===/=|=====|=====|=====|| 
 ||SOCIAL STANDING|     || ||     |  /  |  /  |  /  |     |     |     || 
 ||_______________|_____|| ||_____|_/___|_/___|_/___|_____|_____|_____|| 
 |ADVANCED EDUCATION                      ||SKILLS & KNOWLEDGES
 |=====================================   ||=================|=========
 ||School/Academy | Graduate Degree  ||   || Skill           | Level ||
 ||===============|==================||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||               |                  ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||                 |       ||
 ||               |                  ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||               |                  ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||               |                  ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||                 |       ||
 ||==================================||   ||-----------------|-------||
                                          ||_________________|_______||
 ||BACKGROUND - CAREER PATH               ||                 |       ||
 ||====================================   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||Term| Career  |Inju|Comm|Prom|Rank||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||====|=========|====|====|====|====||   ||                 |       ||
 ||  1 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||  2 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||  3 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||                 |       ||
 ||  4 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||  5 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||  6 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||                 |       ||
 ||  7 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||  8 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||  9 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||                 |       ||
 || 10 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||MUSTERING OUT
 ||=======================================  FINAL RANK  _____________
 || Benefits/Cash      Benefits/Cash    ||
 ||=====================================||  FINAL TITLE _____________
 ||                                     ||
 ||__________________ __________________||  WEIGHT ______  HEIGHT______
 ||                                     ||
 ||__________________ __________________|| 
 ||                                     ||
 ||__________________ __________________|| 


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 01:22:20 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Character Generation Aids - Intro

Hi,

Maybe it's just me, but I'm having trouble doing character
generation with T4.  The process isn't all that hard, but the
current layout in the book is a pain.  In addition to the charts being
jumbled up, you have to flip back and forth over several pages (those 2
*darn* color plates are in the way <g>).

So, I'm creating some aids to help me and, hopefully, others with this.

1.  THE TRAVELLER CHARACTER GENERATION WORKSHEET (no, not a
    Spreadsheet, a paper form)

        I've printed out a ton of these so I can work up characters.
        I do all my erasing and rewriting on the worksheet.  After
        I've got the character generated I transfer the information
        to a CHARACTER RECORD SHEET (right now I'm using the one in
        the T4 book).  The Worksheet fits on, tightly, on a single
        page, if you want to use it you should save it to disk and
        chop the header off.
        
2.  A STEP BY STEP CHARACTER GENERATION PROCEDURE

        I took the process and the charts and arranged them together
        so you can step right through the process without having to
        jump back and forth.  This Aid takes character generation
        through Characteristics, Homeworld generation, Common and
        Background Skills...so far.  I'm sending this as pure ASCII,
        not even any tabs to make it as easy for people to copy as
        possible.  I did place some "suggested page breaks" in the
        document, but of course YMMV. ;->
        
I plan to take this through Advanced Education and through each of the
career paths in the T4 book.  I haven't gotten this finished yet, but I
wanted to put out what I have so far, and get some opinions from the lists. 
We're talking several pages here, and if the list isn't interested I won't
waste the bandwidth.
        
Admission:  I'm not too thrilled with some of the skills tables in T4. I'm
looking for something a little closer to the advanced systems from
Mercenary, Scouts, and High Guard.

Well anyway, once I get the current procedure written out in a step-by-step
format I plan on beginning to make changes.  I'll also be including my
revisions to the skill system...eventually.  ;->
        

Eris        
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 02:04:20 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Character Gen Procedure I

                                STEP BY STEP
                  CHARACTER GENERATION PROCEDURE, Part I

I.  CHARACTERISTICS

    A.  Roll 2D6 for each Characteristic, in order, and enter the result on
        the Character Generation Worksheet
                
                OR
                
    B.  Roll 2D6, 6 times, assigning each pair to the Characteristic of
your
        choice on the Character Generation Worksheet
            
                OR
            
    C.  Roll 1D6, 12 times, group the rolls into 6 pairs in the order of
your
        choice, and assign the pairs to the Characteristic of your choice
on
        the Character Generation Worksheet.
            
II. BACKGROUND

    A.  HOMEWORLD DETERMINATION            
    
        1.  Pick a Homeworld from an existing list (foex see CORE
Subsector)
        
                OR
                
        2.  Choose World Characteristics within the range of 0 to 15 (0-F)
            for each of the following entries:
            
            STARPORT                POPULATION
            SIZE                    LAW LEVEL
            ATMOSPHERE              TECH LEVEL
            HYDROGRAPHICS            
                
                OR
                
        3.  Create a Homeworld using the following tables:
        
            a.  ROLL 2D6 | STARPORT
                ---------|---------
                     2-6 |    A
                     7-9 |    B
                   10-11 |    C
                     12  |  ROLL 1D6 | STARPORT 
                         ----------------------
                                1-3  |    D
                                4-5  |    E
                                 6   |    X
                   
            b.  ROLL 2D6 |  SIZE                 
                ---------|----------
                     2   | ASTEROID
                    3-6  | SMALL
                    7-9  | MEDIUM
                   10-12 | LARGE
                   
suggested page break

                   
            c.  if SIZE = ASTEROID, ATMOSPHERE = VACUUM
                if SIZE = SMALL,    -2 on roll
                if SIZE = LARGE,    +2 on roll
            
                ROLL 2D6 | ATMOSPHERE
                ---------|-----------
                    0-3  | VACUUM
                    4-5  | THIN
                    6-8  | STANDARD
                    9-10 | DENSE
                   11-14 | EXOTIC

                   
            d.  if SIZE = ASTEROID, HYDROGRAPHICS = DESERT
                if SIZE = SMALL,    -2 on roll
                if SIZE = LARGE,    +2 on roll
                        
                ROLL 2D6 | HYDROGRAPHICS
                ---------|--------------
                    0-3  | DESERT
                    4-5  | DRY 
                    6-11 | WET
                   12-14 | WATER

            
            e.  ROLL 2D6 | POPULATION
                ---------|-----------
                    2    |       10+
                    3    |      100+
                    4    |    1,000+
                    5    |   10,000+
                    6    |  100,000+
                    7    |   1 mill+
                    8    |  10 mill+
                    9    | 100 mill+
                   10    |   1 bill+
                  11-12  |  10 bill+
                  
                  
            f.  if POPULATION <= 100+,    -1 on roll
                if POPULATION >= 10mill+, +1 on roll      
            
                ROLL 2D6 | LAW LEVEL
                ---------|----------
                    1-2  |    0
                     3   |    1
                     4   |    2
                     5   |    3
                     6   |    4
                     7   |    5
                     8   |    6
                     9   |    7
                    10   |    8
                    11   |    9
                   12-13 |    A

                   
suggested page break


            g.  if PORT = A,              +3
                if PORT = B,              +2
                if PORT = C,              +1
                if SIZE = ASTEROID,       +1
                if HYDROGRAPHICS = WATER, +1
                if POPULATION <= 100+,    +1
                IF POPULATION >= 10mill+, +2
                
                ROLL 2D6 | TECH LEVEL
                ---------|-----------
                    2    |  0-3        
                    3    |  4-5
                    4    |  6-7
                    5    |   8
                    6    |   9
                    7    |   A
                    8    |   B
                    9    |   C
                   10    |   D
                   11    |   E
                  12-18  |   F
                
                
    B.  HOMEWORLD COMMON SKILLS - Select appropriate skills.
        
            WORLD TYPE  | HOMEWORLD COMMON SKILLS
            ------------|------------------------
             TECH 1-6   |   GROUND CRAFT
             TECH 5-F   |   COMPUTER
             TECH 7-F   |   GRAV CRAFT
             VACUUM     |   VAC SUIT
             
             
    C.  BACKGROUND SKILLS         
    
        1.  Pick 4 skills from an appropriate Tech Table.
        
                OR
        
        2.  Roll 4 times on the Background Skills Table, and roll for a
            skill on the appropriate Tech Table.
                        
            DM's to all rolls:  SOCIAL STATUS 1-5,  -1
                                SOCIAL STATUS 8-F,  +1
                                TECH LEVEL 0-5,     -1
                                TECH LEVEL 8-F,     +1
                                LAW LEVEL 0-5,      -1
                                LAW LEVEL 8-F,      +1 

            Sum all DM's and enter BACKGROUND DM'S on Character Worksheet.
            
            
suggest page break                    


                       BACKGROUND SKILLS TABLE
                       
                       1D6  | APPROPRIATE TABLE
                       -----|------------------
                        0-2 |  LOW TECH table
                        3-4 |  MID TECH table
                        5-9 |  HIGH TECH table
             

 1D6 | LOW TECH TABLE   1D6 | MID TECH TABLE   1D6 | HIGH TECH TABLE
 ----|---------------   ----|---------------   ----|----------------
   1 | Survival          1  | Camouflage        1  | Mechanics
   2 | Recon             2  | Melee Combat      2  | Computer
   3 | Bow Combat        3  | Clandestine       3  | Business
   4 | Throwing          4  | Perception        4  | Ground Craft
   5 | Brawling          5  | Gun Combat        5  | Language
   6 | Athletics         6  | First Aid         6  | Equestrian
   
suggested page break


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:10:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: [TML] mercenary cruiser

Request for Proposal

    ImpBu has decided there is a need for a military auxiliary vessel that
has the capability to insert a small number of troops into varied
environments.
Minimum requirements include the capability to carry at least three squads,
plus their support personnel into varied situations, including hostile
landings
(however drop tubes as a fixed feature are not allowed as not all troops will
be trained to use them). Provide Command and Control capabilities for them.
Be
able to provide fire support to the troops. Be capable of at least two
month's
sustained engagement and provide medical care for the troops. Capable of
providing some sort of mechanized transport for the troops.
    Additional points will be given for flexibility of mission design.
Ability to provide close support for the vessel and the troops. Designs
that qualify for these additional points will be granted a 10%-20% discount
when compared against other submitted vessels.
    As usual a low maintenance cost is desired.


(The original Broadsword Mercenary cruiser was created and subsidized by the
Imperial bureaucracy to provide additional protection and order by mercenary
troops in instances where regular troops aren't available. It is also used as
an auxiliary military vessel in the Imperial Navy.
     It was created somewhere after year 988 (modular cutters weren't
in production till 988).
     It could carry two modular cutters and 4 modules, plus one air/raft.
It had the capability to carry 4 fighters (6-ton), an ATV, a weapons pod, a
passenger module, fuel skimming module, an assualt boat module, a pressurized
shelter and a cargo module.
     It had a sickbay.
     There were many varied designs, some armed, some not. Some with more
armor.

     Some suggestions that come to mind for the new version include CBM
missiles if the ship is equipped with missile turrets. Anti-personnel/
Anti-vehicle weapons on auxiliary vessels if used to ferry troops or
provide support to troops. If main vessel is to be landed, it should
probably also have similar weapons.
     Melieu Zero vessels are most probably corporate (through various
parties)
or military owned. I wouldn't expect too many unaffiliated mercenary
companies around.

Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 03:36:37 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: [TML] Dt discrepancy

  Obviously there aren't going to be lots of contracts
for every yard.  While nuking your competition may be
inappropriate (or not, but probably frowned upon) it
can be very amusing to issue them the wrong tender.
  "Great design, but we can't use it.  I do hope
you're still in business for next years bids..."

(and a BatRon of Pac-men may make you enemy die
laughing, but die they will)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 07:15:19 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: [TML] Yet More Book Recommendations...

Greetings All:

Weighing in with a few book recommendations...

David Weber (of the Honor Harrington series) has also co-written two 
books based on Task Force Games' Starfire game: these are Crusade and 
Insurrection (Baen Books). I've seen Insurrection a lot, but I'm not sure 
if Crusade is still in print.

I'm currently finishing Gregory Benford's Galactic Center series (In the 
Ocean of Night, Across the Sea of Stars, Tides of LIght, Great Sky River, 
Furious Gulf, Sailing Bright Eternity). While vastly different from the 
Traveller Universe (no FTL travel, for one thing), Benford tosses 
concepts around like...well...stars and black holes and they are a 
potential wellspring of great concepts to toss at jaded Traveller 
players. For example, cosmic strings, The Eater of All Things (a huge 
black hole at the center of the galaxy) and a war being mechanical beings 
and organic lifeforms....

I'll also throw in a vote for the Trowbridge/Smith books that Chris Weuve 
nominated. However, be warned, I've yet to find Volumes I and III...



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 07:15:25 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: [TML] "The Traveller"

Greetings All:

I happened to pick up the latest issue of Cinefantastique to look at the 
articles about the SFX of The Empire Strikes Back. While looking in the 
bookstore, I saw some Foss art...and the words Sweetpea 
Entertainment...and a proposal called The Traveller.

The article interviewed Courtney and he (yes he) outlined the various 
plans that Sweetpea has including the D&D movie, a horror 
movie/television series and...kind of vague...a movie/show called "The 
Traveller" based on a game by a guy named "Mark" (not Marc) Miller.

Has some illumination from the other end of the business for us...I'll 
try to bring some $$$ next week and pick up the magazine and transcribe 
what was said.



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 07:15:14 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: [TML] Still Catching Up...

Greetings:

Still catching up!

Saw the note about somebody seeing the ads in the back of COAAC. The 
"Flashback" got me curious, so I pulled out my copy to look. BTW, there 
is an ad there for "Aslan" and "Robots" as well. Aslan sounds like the 
classic edition (hell, GDW was still selling copies a few years ago!). 
Robots definately said "MT" in the description, maybe they were working 
on a new edition?

The Flashback adventure sounds definately good, I wonder how far they 
got? Some adventurers from de early days (Mileux Zero anyone) are forced 
into hibernation. Every now and again they decant themselves and take a 
look around to see if they can cure what ails them. Then they go back 
into hibernation...in this way they visit every major era, Classic, 
Rebellion and--I guess--Hard Times eras (since TNE was only a gleam in 
the eye's of the creator then).

Once we get enough information published by IG (Mileux 0 to ?), maybe 
this could be revived and brought to life?



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:31:34 +0000
From: anders.backman@macademic.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: [TML] Backmans partial space combat system

Hello, a while back someone wanted a short range space combat system and I
indicated that my system used 1000 km squares but was written in Swedish.
Well i jotted down (in english) the sensor rules and sequence of play et c
so that you can use whatever to hit and damage system you like but I've
lost the address to the recipient.
Anybody interested in looking at it mail me for a copy (it's about 15K
straight ascii) as I thought it was too big for mailing on the list
directly.

Also there were some who wanted my personal combat, tasksystem and space
combat in Swedish and I'm presently converting them to acrobat format.
Anybody else who want some swedish rules?


/Backman
Aniware AB
My other e-mail is: anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:07:52 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD announcement

I vote for the far trader.

	The far trader has always been my favorite Traveller ship because of
great role it can play for adventurers.  As an additional plus I think
it has one of the coolest deck plans & I'd like to see a Mileau 0 TL 12
version with the same plans.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:38:46 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Pogo sticks...

DOuglas E. Berry wrote:

>
>>I have been working on such a device, I was going to post them as the
>official "Wrong
>>Trousers" stats
>>
>I am so happy I get to host The Silly Era.. sub-orbital pogo sticks, Wallis
>and Grommit tech..

        Ahem... that pogo stick was fully capable of not on reaching orbit,
but also escape velocity...  great for when you tell your kid to get lost
:).

        In fact, if it weren't for the lack of navigation devices, I'm sure
it'd be capable of interplanetary travel given a good vac suit :).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:38:43 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: THUDD

John Snead wrote:

>
>I'm voting for the 200 ton Far Trader too. This is a popular ship, and
>what I'd most like to see is a whole series of versions, if possible from
>TL 11-15.  This is the type of ship that I would assume would be built
>all over the Imperium, all through its history.  As such, I imagine there
>would be minor and moderate variations depending on TL, planet of origin,
>and from short-lived design fads.
>
>The Imperium is *huge* I'd like THUDD not to have one winner, but a
>instead a top 10 list.
>

        Asi it happens, what we're planning on doing is having people, when
voting, rate ships on a 1-10 scale in several categories; this ought to
produce multiple biscuit recipients, one for each category, as well as an
overall winner...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 07:47:23 +0000
From: "Shadowcat" <kwalsh@cube.ice.net>
Subject: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?

I am working on some advanced campaign rules for High Guard/TCS
and am looking for ideas.

I have a set of rules called "The Modern Naval Campaign" that is in 
very poor condition, but had some ideas on how to deal with this.

it suggests 1 ton of solid stores per 100 crew members every 4 days
how would this be affected by the high tech of a High Guard era 
campaign?

anybody else have any ideas on this?

you never see any real designs for fleet auxilaries except for a 
couple of tankers, but they would have to have them


The Cat of Knights and Shadows
Keeper of the Alt.Callahans WWW archives
Wargamer, Weird Herald, ADHD Advocate
http://www.ice.net/~kwalsh/callahan.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 06:38:58 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> 
> Something I heartily reccommend to every referee: keep a campaign notebook
> where you note not only what happened in the campaign, but what rulings
> and interpretations you had to make, details you've filled in, and so on.
> Periodically, you can review it, and you'll find that you can "mine" the
> campaign's own history for adventure seeds.
> 
> You can also use this to keep your rulings and "house rules" straight.  At
> one point, I even typed up a neat copy of some of my notes and gave them as
> a handout to the players.  Kind of a "FAQ" on the campaign.
> 

I actually have the three MT books online. When I make a rules change, I
edit those versions and reprint the appropriate pages. The rule books I
use are printed copies of the online versions, and my original MT books
are
in a box somewhere. That way I always have the most current rules right
in
front of me.
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 03:27:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: [TML] Re: non-Spacecraft Weapon Design

In mail you write:

>         This kind of things just seems to happen all the time in my
>         campaign, and self-inflicted explosive decompression was one
>         most common reasons for PC deaths until they learned it in the
>         hard way. (RAM HEAP grenades should _not_ be used inside a
>         starship, everyone should know where their vacc suit is, and
>         using a landmate armor with portable mass-driver in boarding
>         party is definitely overkill.)


All players should keep in mind the bit I stole from someone's sig
file, long ago:


		+----------------------------------+
		|                                  |
		|   NATURE ABHORS AN ATMOSPHERE!   |
		|                                  |
		|         CHECK YOUR SUIT!         |
		|                                  |
		|     CHECK YOUR BUDDY'S SUIT!     |
		|                                  |
		+----------------------------------+

             (Standard safety warning in suiting areas)


Hmmm, it just ovvured to me that a friend works for an outfit that
makes things like road signs. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #927
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 8 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 928



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Re: What are sandcasters?
[TML] Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?
[TML] Re: THUDD
Re: [TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives
[TML] THUDDD Voting
[TML] THUDDD Voting
[TML] Thuddd voting
[TML] Pogo-sticks
[TML] Online copies of books
[TML] re: Sancasters
Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?
[TML] Character Generation Worksheet
[TML] THUDD Vote
[TML] re: Sandcasters, use against fighters
[TML] Sandcasters
[TML] Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?
[TML] [Traveller Answer] Animal Encounters
[TML] Re: Measurement Systems
[TML] Re: Genoee posts
Re: [TML] materials
Re: [TML] Rs: Sandcasters Useless?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:54:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: [TML] Re: What are sandcasters?

In mail you write:

> Not a bad thought to use against fighters at close quarters, but I'm not sure
> that the particles would be strong enough to cause damage compared to the
> strength of a starship hull.  MT gave sandcasters a penetration of 20 against
> ground targets as compared to the standard armor value of an unarmored
> starship, which I believe to be 40.  This wouldn't be enough to make any
> difference during any one combat situation, but may eventually cause enough
> damage over several battles to warrant hull repairs.

When fired against a *ground* target, the impact velocity is whayever
velocity the sand exits the weapon with.

In space, the impact velocity is the sum of the velocity of the weapon
and the *closing velocity* of the incoming ship/missile. That makes a
*big* difference. 

Remember, at *less than* 15 km/s a *paint chip* blasted a crater the
size of a thumbnail in one of the Shuttle's main windows.

"Sand" probably has a similar mass. And it's moving a *lot* faster. And
there's lots and lots of it.

I figure that even superdense is going to lose at least half a cm or
more when passing thru a cloud of sand. More likely several cm.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 03:36:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: [TML] Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?

In mail you write:

> My vote for the Worst ever SciFi-attempt goes out to the Perry Rhodan 
> Moviee: S.o.s. in outer space! Nothing similar to the series and just 
> soo badly made!

Hmmm. It occurs to me that a ref could do worse than use the Perry
Rhodan series as a campaign background. :-)


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:20:38 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD

My vote goes out to the Far Trader Tl 10-12, as well as the 
Subsidized Merchant!
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:37:07 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: [Traveller Answer] Jump Drives

- -> I actually have the three MT books online. When I make a rules change, I
- -> edit those versions and reprint the appropriate pages. The rule books I
- -> use are printed copies of the online versions, and my original MT books
- -> are
- -> in a box somewhere. That way I always have the most current rules right
- -> in
- -> front of me.
- -> -- 
- -> Erwin Fritz
Cool idea, Erwin!
How did you do it? Did you scan the pages or how did you put them 
onto your computer?
I would like to do the same, but can't figure out how!Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:47:08 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD Voting

Make mine a Far Trader.

Ross Coburn
ross@ican.net
ross@ptm.ca

"Insert clever quote here."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:47:08 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD Voting

Make mine a Far Trader.

Ross Coburn
ross@ican.net
ross@ptm.ca

"Insert clever quote here."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 06:39:28 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <BRuadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: [TML] Thuddd voting

I'm game. Merc cruiser gets my first vote with the Far trader for the
next contest.

Brian A. Howard
- -- 
If it sounds like a Babel Fish run ... 
for a Vogon constructor fleet
cannot be far behind!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 10:53:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] Pogo-sticks

>DOuglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>>
>>>I have been working on such a device, I was going to post them as the
>>official "Wrong
>>>Trousers" stats
>>>
>>I am so happy I get to host The Silly Era.. sub-orbital pogo sticks, Wallis
>>and Grommit tech..
>
>        Ahem... that pogo stick was fully capable of not on reaching orbit,
>but also escape velocity...  great for when you tell your kid to get lost
>:).
>
>        In fact, if it weren't for the lack of navigation devices, I'm sure
>it'd be capable of interplanetary travel given a good vac suit :).



I've read lots about this pogo-stick, if you have a spare minute, and the
stats for it on your computer, could you e-mail it to me.  I'd really like
to see this helarious design.

Thankyou,

Jeff Brawley

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 10:05:39 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: [TML] Online copies of books

Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> 
> -> I actually have the three MT books online. When I make a rules change, I
> -> edit those versions and reprint the appropriate pages. The rule books I
> -> use are printed copies of the online versions, and my original MT books
> -> are
> -> in a box somewhere. That way I always have the most current rules right
> -> in
> -> front of me.
> -> --
> -> Erwin Fritz
> Cool idea, Erwin!
> How did you do it? Did you scan the pages or how did you put them
> onto your computer?
> I would like to do the same, but can't figure out how!Just my 2 EuroCents,
> 

Actually, I went the tedious route. Over a two year period, doing a
little
bit almost every day, I typed them in. Scanning wasn't that reliable,
and
by typing them in I could correct for errata and change rules at the
same
time.

When I eventually buy T4 I'll just slowly merge those rules into my
current
ones so the transition will be smoother.
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 17:26 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: [TML] re: Sancasters

In-Reply-To: <32FB0022.72FA@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>

<< I've always played sancasters as if they were the force shields >>

SANcasters? Sounds like a CoC monster...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 12:38:45 PST
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?

Here is some of the planning factors that we use in the Army.  

5 gallon/water per day per person-- Drinking, food prep. and personal
hygene.
10 lbs for food.  Combination of MRE and T-Rations.

In the future the water usage would be the same but the ship recycling
system will be able to reclaim a good percentage of the water 80%, which
makes water consumption about 1 gallon.

Using the replicator and advance technology you can probably reduce food
consumption down to 2-4 lbs depending on what quality of food you want to
serve.  The navy has a long tradition of serving the best food of any of
the services.  I would tend to use the 4 lbs figure, which includes things
like cigarettes, and personal hygene articles.

JD
Twolf
- ----------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 01:31:17 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Character Generation Worksheet

 
 ||CHARACTERISTIC |Score||  TRAVELLER CHARACTER GENERATION WORKSHEET
 ||===============|=====||
 ||STRENGTH       |     ||  NAME _________________________
 ||_______________|_____||
 ||DEXTERITY      |     ||  RACE ___________   AGE _____  SEX _____
 ||_______________|_____||
 ||ENDURANCE      |     || HOMEWORLD ___________ BACKGROUND DM'S  _____
 ||_______________|_____||
 ||INTELLEGENCE   |     || ||HOMEWORLD DATA  *required entry             
 ||_______________|_____|| ||=========================================== 
 ||EDUCATION      |     || || PORT| SIZE|ATMO*|HYDRO|POPUL| LAW*|TECH*|| 
 ||_______________|_____|| ||=====|===/=|===/=|===/=|=====|=====|=====|| 
 ||SOCIAL STANDING|     || ||     |  /  |  /  |  /  |     |     |     || 
 ||_______________|_____|| ||_____|_/___|_/___|_/___|_____|_____|_____|| 
 |ADVANCED EDUCATION                      ||SKILLS & KNOWLEDGES
 |=====================================   ||=================|=========
 ||School/Academy | Graduate Degree  ||   || Skill           | Level ||
 ||===============|==================||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||               |                  ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||                 |       ||
 ||               |                  ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||               |                  ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||               |                  ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||_______________|__________________||   ||                 |       ||
 ||==================================||   ||-----------------|-------||
                                          ||_________________|_______||
 ||BACKGROUND - CAREER PATH               ||                 |       ||
 ||====================================   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||Term| Career  |Inju|Comm|Prom|Rank||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||====|=========|====|====|====|====||   ||                 |       ||
 ||  1 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||  2 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||  3 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||                 |       ||
 ||  4 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||  5 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||  6 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||                 |       ||
 ||  7 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||  8 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||                 |       ||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||  9 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||                 |       ||
 || 10 |         |    |    |    |    ||   ||-----------------|-------||
 ||----|---------|----|----|----|----||   ||_________________|_______||
 ||MUSTERING OUT
 ||=======================================  FINAL RANK  _____________
 || Benefits/Cash      Benefits/Cash    ||
 ||=====================================||  FINAL TITLE _____________
 ||                                     ||
 ||__________________ __________________||  WEIGHT ______  HEIGHT______
 ||                                     ||
 ||__________________ __________________|| 
 ||                                     ||
 ||__________________ __________________|| 


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:12:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDD Vote

Hi,

Ah, my messages are getting back through to the lsit again :), SO, I'll put
my vote down for:

                ___MERC CRUISER___

Also, sorry is this has been asked, but I was wondering; will we be stuck to
the specifics in the rulebook on this design?  Or, will it just be a 'TL 12
vessel, equipped for battle situations, marine contingent, Jump-1, a ywa to
get marines to surface, and hull < 1500"

THanks,

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:42:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: [TML] re: Sandcasters, use against fighters

Who says that the sandcaster canisters need to contain just sand?
Variant canister loads:

BB-Baboom can: Fill it, not with sand, but with BB or worse, 00 Buckshot
sized ball bearings. If a paintfleck can damage a shuttle at orbital
velocity, imagine what a 5 mm steel ball will do to that fighter blazing
past you at 6 gee ;-)

GroundTroops Bye Bye: Chock-full-o-cluster bombs

Quail in a Can: a bunch of reflective magnetized sand, and a small
customized magfield generator. This could probably put up a decent
radar/lidar reactive fake image of your ship.  It won't fool a
densitometer, but how many missiles are equipped with those? At the rate
you could jig a ship and fire canisters, I'll bet you could give a
tracking system a serious headache trying to figure out just who was who.

The ol' Submarine Standby: Punt a can full of junk out. Air, water, metal
parts, and go 'dead'. Wait for the pirate to come to closing range with
your 'holed' ship and blast them at close range. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:06:00 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] Sandcasters

Well, the subject line has very little to do with this post.  I just put it
there to get the most people that needed to to read this.

I'm also sending this cc'ed to Robert, where it is really directed.

I wanted to apologize to Robert for jumping all over his case about the
TNE/sandcasters issue.  I'm not even going to try to make any excuses, I'm
just apologizing.  It doesn't really matter why I did it, just that I did
and that I shouldn't have.  So

To Robert (in the presence of the list):  I apologize.  You are entitled to
you opinion just as much as I am to mine.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:47:16 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Sumer: a lost Vilani colony?

Imperium (a pre-cursor to Traveller, but not part of the series) was designed
just prior to Traveller. Star names in that game were based on Sumerian words
(culled from an ancient history text). When it came time to produce Vilani
names, we used the letter frequencies from those words to produce Vilani.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 14:47:21 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Animal Encounters

"Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com> asked:
> On page 142, under the heading of Animal Characteristics, the entry for 'A',
> that is, attack says that it will read '0', meaning it will attack if a
> special criteria is met (does this mean, like the puncer one says surprised?).

Right.  "A0" or "F0" means "check the rules for the special rule for this
animal".  The pouncer entry says (under "To Attack"), "Surprised" - this
means that a pouncer will attack if the prey is surprised.  If the prey
(usually your player characters) isn't surprised, the pouncer will do something
else (like flee, if the PCs surprise the pouncer).  A speed of zero, "S0",
indicates that the animal can't move (for example, The Great Sarlac from
_Return of the Jedi_ is an example of an immobile trapper).

> Also, on page 152, under the Encounter table for Regina, the characteristics
> are written, for the first four animal in the formt A/F/S  Then, it switches
> to F/A/S.  Is this important, or just an editing problem?  

Yes, this is important.  Here's the explanation:

"The three final columns are unlabeled, but each always bears a prefix; they
 indicate the probable reactions by the animals.  The first column indicates
 the most probable reaction on encounter; the second column indicates the
 next most probable reaction if the first does not occur.  The referee, in
 resolving the encounter, must consult the first column, throwing two dice:
 [if the roll succeeds], the animal attacks (if the prefix letter is A), or
 flees (if the prefix letter is F).  If the first throw is not achieved, the
 second column is consulted.  A listed throw of 0 indicates that some
 special consideration is called for, such as attack only if bigger than
 the prey, or flight only if surprised [...].  In such cases, see [the T4
 rules].  The last column, prefixed S, indicates the speed of which the
 animal is capable."
 
I found the above paragraph in Traveller Suppliment 2: _Animal Encounters_
(GDW: 1979 and LONG out of print).  The explanation in T4 is a little
shorter:

"Most animals will attack before they flee, so the order of the codes should
 be A F S; herbivores will probably flee first, so they should be
 coded F A S."

The reference is located at the top of T4 pp.145, under the heading
"Herbivores".

Also note that there is a minor disagreement between pp.144-145, which
indicate that the animal reaction numbers are "target or better" throws (so
that "A9" means "Attack on a 2D6 throw of 9+"), and pp.142 which says the
opposite (so that "A9" means "Attack on a 2D6 throw of 9-").  Finally, note
that the example table (for Regina) contains values that can't be generated
using the rules as presented in T4.  The errata available on the IG website
doesn't resolve these problems conclusively.

IN MY OPINION: Use the rules as presented to generate "target or better"
throws for animal encounters.  The example table seems to use "target or
less" throws.  Personally, I'll pull out my copy of Supplement 2 when I
need some animal encounter tables.

> Also, a question regarding task.  What is the proper format for their
> inclusion in the text in T4.  Should they be seperated from the text, or
> embedded?

Personally, I prefer them separated from the text, but I don't know if IG
has a standard.  I've seen material published by IG formatted both ways.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:47:11 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Measurement Systems

In a message dated 97-02-07 15:35:10 EST, you write:

> >
>  > Obviously it's a not really a week *exactly*, but close enough for game
>  > purposes. Seems to me the Imperium would adopt the jump-duration as the
>  > standard time unit. All other measures could be derived from that unit.
>  
 Jump takes 168 hours plus or minus 10%, and that's regardless of the jump
distance (ie,  jump-1, jump-6, etc). The original incarnations of Traveller
(back in 1977) said one week, and the details evolved as the nee4d arose to
be more specific.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:47:15 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Genoee posts

In a message dated 97-02-07 15:41:16 EST, you write:

> Yes, although I don't have a lot of use for it now, I'd hate to discourage
>  someone from coming up with such useful material... I think the Genoee are
>  a fairly important race in the history on the Imperia... they were 
> originally
>  thought to be a major race, but were later demoted to 'minor' status,
>  they were one of the first races contacted by the Vilani, they form a
>  signifigant population in their section of space, making them important
>  in any political dealings in the subsector, etc. Now all we need is
>  some more art (more than that one drawing in S&A!).

I have enjoyed reading the Geonee posts, and I'd hate to see you stop them.

Meanwhile, I am of a mind to include a sidebar (or more than one) on Geonee
and Suerrat in upcoming books, just for some background and other details. In
fact, because the adventure structure calls for a push and a pull, I was
thinking that Suerrat would become an omni-present push... a rival to the
Imperium working to establish their own power base.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:02:27 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] materials

At 08:41 PM 2/7/97 -0600, Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>The other day, the complete list of Materials from the CSC or other manual
>was posted.  I in my infinite mindlessness forgot to save that digest.
>Could you please repost that if you read this, or send it to me direct.  I
>would be very grateful.  
>
>It had materials listed by toughness, price, weight, and TL.  
>
>Thankyou in advance,
>
>Jeff Brawley
>
>
Jeff,

You have asked for it, I will repost it.

he following is a list of armor materials from TNE converted to CSC/VDS
armor values.

To convert your own the formula is:
ROUND(POWER((XX/TNE_Hard_Steel_Toughness),0.33)*CSC_Hard_Steel_Toughness,0.5)
XX is the TNE armor value that you wish to convert.

The formula is similar to the one that Greg used to convert from TNE to
CSC/VDS, he sent me a message on how he arrived at the armor values in CSC.

Some of these materials were aquired via web pages, and FTP sites.
Unfortunatley I do not remember them all, but Dave Golden is one of the web
pages.

Notes:
Electropolymorphic Synthetics is dual armor value due the greater armor
value is only when a 1Mw per m3 is applied.
Monodium is a crude attempt to approx the gray metal of the Ancients.
Obscenieum is armor for when your PC's need a lesson, I use it as benchmark
for obscene values.

Description      	             TL   Tough   Mass     Cost
Heavy wood                        1     1       1       0.001
Iron                              3     3       8       0.0016
Soft Steel                        3     4       8       0.016
Hard Steel                        5     6       8       0.02
Fiber Laminate                    6     2       1       0.03
Fiberglass                        6     3       1       0.001
Light Alloy                       6     3       3       0.004
Aluminum Alloy                    6     5       2.7     0.0037
Hardened Steel                    6     6       7.8     0.0026
Titanium Alloy                    6     6       4.9     0.0102
Titanium                          6     7       8       0.01
Carbonfiber                       7     4       1       0.002
Glass Composite                   7     4       1.9     0.0099
Improved Aluminum Alloy           7     5       2.6     0.0042
Metallic Laminate                 7     5       3.6     0.0042
Light composite                   7     6       7       0.07
Super Steel Alloy                 7     6       7.8     0.0052
Advanced Titanium Alloy           7     7       4.7     0.0111
Carbonfiber Compound              8     4       1       0.003
Composite Laminate                8     7       7       0.08
Graphite Composite                8     8       2.1     0.0595
Metalic Laminate Armor            8     9       11.1    0.0122
Advanced Carbonfiber              9     5       1       0.004
Aluminum Lithium Alloy            9     5       2.4     0.0046
Advance Metallic Laminate         9     6       4       0.0056
Metal Matrix Composite            9     6       2.6     0.0154
Ceramic Laminated Composite(CLC)  9     7       1.8     0.0500
Advanced Composites               9     9       9       0.009
Boron Composite                   9     9       2       0.0875
Aluminum Lithium Foam            10     5       1.92    0.0049
Armourplast                      10     5       1       0.006
Ceramic Matrix Composite         10     5       1.3     0.0240
Foam Steel Alloy                 10     6       6.24    0.0034
Titanium Alloy Foam              10     6       3.995   0.0117
Synthetics                       10     7       1.4     0.0804
Improved CLC                     10     8       1.75    0.0729
Crystaliron                      10     9       10      0.09
Composite Matrix Armor           10    10       9.54    0.0252
Structurecomp                    11     3       1       0.04
Maxiplast                        11     5       0.9     0.009
Metal Ceramic Alloy              11     7       2.22    0.0195
Reinforced Foam Aluminum Alloy   11     7       2.08    0.0249
Improved Synthetics              11     8       1.5     0.1125
Reinforced Foam Steel Alloy      11     8       5.968   0.0109
Reinforced Foam Titanium Alloy   11     8       3.9495  0.0342
Durallium                        11    10       12      0.012
Improved Structural Synthetics   12     6       1.2     0.0213
Myomer                           12     6       0.8     0.01
Improved Metal Ceramic Alloy     12     9       2.997   0.0311
Synthetic Armor                  12    10       2       0.1477
Metal Ceramic Armor              12    11       6.4625  0.0406
Superdense                       12    11       15      0.014
Improved Structurecomp           13     4       1       0.05
Advanced myomer                  13     6       0.7     0.012
Metal Ceramic Alloy              13     6       2.725   0.0092
Advanced Superdense              13    13       15      0.021
Electropolymorphic Synthetics    13    8/16     1.5     0.3188
Polymer                          14     7       0.6     0.014
Bonded Superdense                14    14       15      0.028
Advanced Structurecomp           15     6       1       0.06
Chain Polymer                    15     7       0.55    0.016
Square Bonded Superdense         15    15       15      0.031
Long Chain Polymer               16     7       0.5     0.018
Collapsed Crytalline             16    13       13      0.022
Cube Bonded Superdense           16    16       15      0.033
Monomolecule                     17     8       0.4     0.021
Coherent Superdense              17    16       15      0.035
Enhanced Coherent Superdense     18    17       15      0.052
Exotic Alloy I                   18    19       13      0.1
Exotic Alloy II                  22    22       10      0.25
Monodium                         30    47       1       N/A
Obscenieum                       40   100       0.1     N/A

Thats it for now.

Let me know what you think.
"Putting On Obscenieum Armor for flame protection"

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:59:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Rs: Sandcasters Useless?

Hi.

> From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>

> Before I go any further, let me say that this post caught me at a very bad
> time and everything I'm about to say I will probably regret when I get over
> being upset about other things.  With that in mind, please don't take
> offense at what will probably be somewhat to very offensive.

I know how you feel, sometimes what seems to me to be an erroneous
position will be stated and restated until I can't stand to hear it
anymore. When that happens, the next person to mention the subject (the
next person to lay a straw on the camel's back) gets bitten by me.
Sand has been discussed for a long time on this list. Now that the
discussion has really taken off, I felt compelled to mention the (IMHO,
overiding) importance of refraction, as opposed to reflection or
ablation.

>>> It is a device that shoots canisters of magnetic (or electrically charged)
>>> reflective ablative particles into the vacuum of space.
>>
>>I hadn't realized that TNE said this. It is just one more case of previous
>>canon being overthrown by useless detail, I guess.

> This really pissed me off!!!!  You mistakenly assume that the point made by
> FFS is useless detail because you are so stuck on either following the
> letter of the rule or bashing TNE for all your worth that you can't even
	[snip][snip][snip] 
> You are probably so blinded by your hatred of TNE that you are unable to
> accept the fact that what FFS said about sandcasters might just possibly be
> useful so I won't even begin to try to explain.  However...

My comment on needless detail overiding canon was not directed at TNE.
This problem has plagued all incarnations of Traveller; MT being the
worst offender, as far as I know. (And I don't know very far. I haven't
really studied these problems; they're often easier to dismiss than
study.)

[snip: my advocacy of refraction]

> You are free to use this variant, but as I understand it the Ablat/reflec
> coating will be seriously degraded by micrometeor impacts.  I am not an
> engineer, so I can't talk to the reality of viability of sandcasters, but if
> you want reality, don't play a game!

Two issues here:

1) Micrometeorites: These will in fact degrade reflective surfaces
significantly. (Degradation of ablative surfaces will not be significant
compared to what lasers do.) Reflective sand will in fact get arround
this problem. But so will a spray-on version of it that periodically
re-coats your hull. This spray on version will have one BIG advantage
over sand; all of it will provide protection to your ship, not just the
miniscule part of it that happens to intersect a thin strand of laser
light. And that protection will stick around, and not be blown off into
space. You can also get around this problem (and the problem of making
your spaceship too "shiny") by putting your ablative armor over your
reflective armor.

2) Realism: No one can seriously accuse any incarnation of Traveller of
realism. As far as I am concerned, this is not a problem for any /game/
based on /fiction/ (science or otherwise). This is the main reason I
advocate a simple HG-like design system; the added complexity of more
elaborate systems does not get you any more realism. The issue, as I see
it, is not realism but consistency. Traveller already has rules for
ablation and reflection of starship attacks; these rules are covered by
the armor design systems. If sand works the same way as armor, then the
rules for it should both: (a) work the same way as armor, and (b) take
into account that sand is more diffuse than ordinary armor.

>>There are rules for this, you can find them in the ship design tables
>>under ARMOR. Sandcasters must be something different.
 
> To my knowledge (and I very well could be wrong) the current rules for T4 as
> explained in SSDS and QSDS and the posts by Dave and Wildstar about the FFS
> changes and FFS itself do not have any such allowances for starships.

Pardon me for being unnecessarily cryptic. ALL armor (both in real life
and in games) works by one or more of these three methods: [A]
reflecting an attack (like a sword bouncing off a helmet, or a laser
reflecting off a mirror), [B] ablating an attack (like a shell exploding in
a rampart, or a laser stopped by a brick wall), or [C] redistributing an
attack (like a sword which cannot cut through chainmail). For most (but
not all) modern warfare, [A] and [B] matter more than [C]. Therefore, I
assume that in starship-to-starship combat, armor works by reflecting
and ablating the incoming fire.
 
>>To reiterate a previous post, the only interpretation of sand I know of
>>that may make sense is that it REFRACTS laser light, which then diffuses
>>(de-focuses) into a less intense beam before it strikes your ship. If
>>you can think of another workable explanation, let me know.

> I believe that FFS states the the beam burns its way through the cloud of
> "sand" (not sand) and that is how it works.

This is ablation. As I said, I think it is not cost effective to blow
your ablative armor out into space, as opposed to keeping it near your
hull. Dense ablative armor works better against a focused attack than
diffuse ablative armor. The stopping power of ablative armor will always
be proportional to the its mass-per-unit-surface-area. By blowing your
armor ("sand") into space, you are increasing its surface area more than
you need to.

> Again, I apologize for the tone of this post, but I am seriously SICK of
> people knocking TNE because they don't like it when in reality, they just
> aren't creative enough to use it.

I may or may not be creative enough to use TNE. This issue is irrelevent
since I never will. But the more complex you make any system (whether CT,
MT, TNE, or T4), whether by adding unnecessary detail or confusing design
sequences, the more likely it is that you will introduce
inconsistencies. And intelligent players will exploit inconsistencies,
sometimes to the detriment of the game. It is therefore desirable to
minimize confusion and detail, except where they add directly to the
enjoyability of the game.

- -Rob

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #928
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 8 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 929



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] CSC Errata Manager
[TML] Re: Jump drives
[TML] Re: What are sandcasters?
[TML] Re: SPAM, H. Beam Piper
Re: [TML] Re: What are sandcasters?
[TML] Universal Ship Profiles
[TML] Re: Aramis/Spinward Marches again!
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?
[TML] Azhanti High Lightning Small Craft
[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] oops
Re: [TML] AHL

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:34:04 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] CSC Errata Manager

I have volunteered myself to compile the errata for CSC and to send it to
IG. If you would email with more errata/corrections at Sinbad@dfw.net and
put CSC Errata in the subject header.

Here is what I have so far:

Item 1:page 54 errata
The volume factors table shows a 4.0 Displacement having a USP of 7, but on
page 74 under paragraph "Agility" there is a small table that shows that a
Displacement of 4 having a USP of 6....Which table is the more correct if
there is one?

Item 2:page 68 errata
On under the Vehicle Communicator Table a Far Orbit has cost of 90KCr and a
volume of .01 at T-14. But on the same page under paragraph Communicators
it states "communicators ...., and a cost of .5MCr per 1m3,...." Lets see
table says 90KCr, but the math says cost is .01m3 X .5MCr =.005MCr or 5KCr.
That is a little price difference maybe 90KCr versus 5KCr.

Item 3:page??? errata?
Where is the mass per 1m3 for sensors? I have not found it on in the
sensors section or on the worksheet. I have used the same mass as
communicators.

Item 4:page 68 clarification
Under communicators it states that vehicle comms "These numbers are for
full capability starship-equivalent units,... Does this mean that vehicle
comms are or are not equal to military grade? To me it does seem to be very
clear?

Item 5:page 69 clarification
Laser Comms do not get the options of Directional Antenna and Direction
Finder, but Maser Comms seemly can.???

Item 6:clarification
I take a Disp 100t, radically slope all surfaces except top and bottom, its
remaining volume puts it in the Disp of 20t. Its cross sectional area is
closer to Disp 20 rather than 100. This was also an issue in Striker I.
Would not sloping increase the surface area available?

Item 7:page 67 errata/clarification
Text underneath grav compensators....To Boost this up to 6g of compensation
would require (6/3)^3=8 times as much,...
 
But page 89 worksheet under Grav Compensation..Excess Compensation
Factor:(Acceleration Compensated-Max. Compensation), cubed(Min Of 1) well
that works out to (6-3)^3=27 times as much...

There seems to be a difference 8 versus 27 times volume.

Item 8:Page 8 clarification?
PAWS-10 describes a electronic sight that would be mountable on a rifle
etc, but on page 9 center drawing description PAW looks like some kind of
vehicle.???

Item 9:page 62 errata/clarification
Storage Banks Table, section concerning Discharge Time, TL 6 and TL 7 both
have discharge time of 3 secs. Should not TL 6 be 3 secs and TL 7 be 0.3
seconds following the progression?

Sam Thomas
sinbad@dfw.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:29:56 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: Jump drives

Derek Wildstar writes:
>Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com> asked:
>>If #1 is allowed, a military ship could mount a J2 drive
>>and be able to J1 out and back without having to refuel
> 
>This is a particularly valid tactic.  A battle fleet emerging from jumpspace
>with enough remaining jump fuel to perform at least a J-1 has the option of
>retreating by jumping, which can save lives and ships.
> 
>This tactic is at the core of the battleship versus battlerider debate.
>Battleships can jump to safety if they find themselves in a loosing fight.
>Riders MUST win, because both the riders and their carrier are vulnerable
>during a the docking operation, and carriers that are attacked by enemy
>warships may have to jump out or be destroyed, either case stranding their
>riders in a hostile system.
>
>On the other hand, ton for ton and credit for credit, a battle rider is
>a more powerful combat warship than a battleship, since the battleship has
>to haul jump drives and jump fuel tankage into battle.

Unfortunately this is no longer true, thanks to the changes in the ship
design system. Well, a jump ship is still much weaker than a battlerider
ton for ton because of the extra fuel tankage, but that's not very important
because fuel tankage hardly costs anything (just the hull itself). The 
important thing is how much punch you can get for your money. And for some 
reason the cost of jump drives have been reduced by NINETY PERCENT!! (Count 
them, 90!!) in the QSDS system. (I assume that the price reduction was
already introduced in FF&S, but I never designed a ship with that, so I 
didn't notice it then). That means that suddenly jump ships are only a few
percent inferior, credit for credit, than a battlerider.

I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I really, really dislike
changes in the design systems that has a profound impact on the background.
Like this price change. Or like the bridge with a minimum size of 20 T that 
is suddenly no longer necessary in starships, which means that Jump-5 and
Jump-6 X-boats become practical the moment the proper TL is reached.

Does anyone know the reasons for these changes? Did they fix some other,
major problem in the background? Because if they merely made a bit more
sense to the designers when taken on their own, then IMO the extra _loss_
of consistency when taken in conjunction with the Traveller background
ought to have ensured that they weren't changed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to all change. Not even to some pretty
radical changes. But the more radical the change, the greater the benefit
must be to justify it. And if the changes can help make other parts of the
background more plausible then that is good (For example, I'd advocate
changing the per ton price of jump drives to 1 MCr times the square of the
jump number. That is, MCr1/T for jump-1 engines, MCr4/T for jump-2 engines,
MCr9/T for jump-3 engines, etc. This would make jump-1 ships cheaper, which 
would cause some problems, but it would also make most military ships more
expensive, which would help reconcile TCS budgets with the size of the
Imperial Navy as it is described in _Rebellion_.
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 20:42:58 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: [TML] Re: What are sandcasters?

In a spirit of public works ;-) I've gone through my various rules books to
find out what they say about sandcasters:

CT Book 2 (Starships) Ed2 - Sandcasters "dispense small particles which
counteract the strength of lasers and protect the ship".

CT Book 5 (High Guard) Ed2 - sandcasters "project a granular agent which
obstructs light; when fired it interferes with incoming laser and energy
weapon fire."

MT Referee's Manual - identical to High Guard.

SOP - More flowery (!) version of High Guard description.

TNE - "sandcasters fire canisters of magnetic ablative crystals. Each
sandcaster contains a generator which creates an EM field which manipulates
the location and shape of the cloud of crystals. These clouds are placed in
the path of incoming beam weapons, and cause the beam weapon to expend its
energy burning through the cloud. The sandcaster operator uses laser
warning sensors to detect fire control locks and anticipate incoming beam
fire."

FFS - basically adds to the TNE description that the EM field generator may
be replaced with a gravitic one at high TLs, "allowing the use of more
effective, non-magnetic crystals".

T4: Does not describe how they work.

T4-starships: Nothing again.

So what can we conclude? I think that the actual operation of the system is
meant to be similar to the 2300AD StarCruiser Force Fields (Magnetically
suspended particles). The trigger appears to (officially) be the targeting
laser beam. personally, I feel that this is unlikely, as the travel times,
even for lasers, are going to significantly mess up target solutions
(target beam there, target beam back, laser fire there, and all the time
the enemy could be manouevering, especially now that thruster plates are
back!). I still think that the predictive system is more realistic.

- -Dom Mooney-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 16:01:12 -0500
From: jpb@miamisci.org (Joe Block)
Subject: [TML] Re: SPAM, H. Beam Piper

In article <199702071837.NAA16020@SMTP.USIT.NET>, Dennis Anderson
<allways2@usit.net> wrote:

> Continental Airlines announced special sale fares for spring and summer
> travel in the U.S., Canada and to Europe and Latin America. Continental is
> offering savings up to 50 percent off regular 21-day advance purchase fares.
> Tickets for all destinations must be purchased by Feb. 14. 

Since we're making list config changes anyway, could we set the list to
only allow members to post?

ObTraveller:

Weren't Piper's Space Vikings (at least partially) the inspiration for the
Sword Worlds?
Joe Block <jpb@miamisci.org>

It isn't that unix isn't a user friendly operating system, it's just
selective about who it wants to be friends with.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:34:36 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: What are sandcasters?

On Sat, 8 Feb 1997, SD Mooney wrote:

> T4: Does not describe how they work.

See p. 90 of T4 for a description of how sandcasters do their job.  It's 
about the same as FFS/TNE.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 18:02:02 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

Someone ;-) wrote:
>         Here is what I will be specifying as the THUDDD USP format (so
> everyone copy and save this baby!):

I'd like to propose a new format for the USP, if I may.  This is an
expansion and extension of the current USP, to get a lot of the missing
details back into the ship description.

Please read over this, and let me know what you think.


Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System)

Tons: ### Std (Config)    Volume: ###### m^3           Cost: #### MCr
Crew: ####                High/Mid Pass: ####          Low: ##
Cargo: ## Std             Controls: Type (Bridge)      TL: ##

## Size                               ## Jump Drive (## Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      ## Maneuver (Type, ## Mw)
##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##    ## Power Plant (#x ##Mw)
##x BatteryName (##) ##/##            ## Fuel (Scoop ##, Refine ##)
 w/ ## MissileName #/# #G##           ## Meson Screen (## Mw)
                                      ## Sandcasters (#### Cans)
##x LaunchFacility (Craft)            ## Nuclear Damper
##x HangarFacility (Craft)            A# P# J# Sensors (# Stealth/Cloak)
                                      ## Armor, ## Structure

Crew Detail: ## Command, ## Sensors, ## Gunners, ## Engineer, ## Steward
             ## Troops, etc as needed ...

Notes: Explanations and details of the above as needed.

Additional comments and description of the ship may follow in additional
paragraphs.   USPs and comments for carried craft follow.


Thoughts on USPs in general:
I think the description and notes are much better at the end, rather than at
the top (above the name or class).  This allows the start of an entry to be
visually distinctive - much easier for the referee to locate when he or she
needs the information in a hurry.

Generally, a USP will be for either a single ship (in which case the ship
name should appear in the title), or for an entire class (in which the class
name should appear instead of the ship name).  For example, "Empress Marava
Free Trader" (a single ship), or "Beowulf-class Free Trader" (a class).

Particularly for designs that will be shared with others, the design system
used (QSDS, SSDS, or something else) should be noted.  It's convenient to
put it up in the title.

This is just a personal thing, but I prefer the units to appear after the
number (just like they taught me in Engineering school), instead of before
it.  I'll concede that the other way is easier for spreadsheets, though.
It's no big deal to me either way.

You can consider "Std" to stand for "Standard Tons Displacement".  ;-)

IF the ship has a bridge, you should note "(Bridge)" after the controls.
Advanced designs with things like CIC (Combat Information Center), Fighter
Control Bridge, Fire Control Bridge, or Flag Bridge should mention them on
the controls, or (if there isn't room), in the notes.

I'm undecided on the way of formatting the second half of the entry.  The
original (T4) USP had them as "## Rating", but many people seem to prefer
"Rating: ##".  I don't particularly care, but think that the first MIGHT be
easier to read quickly.

The Jump drive should be rated in parsecs, and include the number of dTons
of fuel per parsec jumped (this is easy to figure, but is nice to add, since
for some designs the ship may have fuel for more than one jump).

Maneuver drive should also specify what type of drive (Fusion Rocket,
HEPlaR, T-Plate) it is.  If the ship does NOT have Contra-Grav, this should
also be noted in the maneuver drive line (as "No CG").  The default
assumption is that most or all ships in Traveller have contra-grav, since it
makes landings and takeoffs much easier and safer.

Knowing the output of the power plant in Mw is a nice thing to have; for
QSDS designs, it's helpful to put something like "2x100Mw" or "100Mw+50Mw".

Fuel should be listed in DISPLACEMENT TONS!  If scoops or refining
capability is present, list the capacity (in dtons scooped per hour, or
dtons refined per hour), like "Scoop 150, Refine 10" or "S 150, R 10".

Sandcaster rating should include the total number of cans available.

Sensor ratings should include a note about stealth or masking (if
installed).  For future expandability, this entry should be "-1 Stealth" or
"-3 Masking" (currently the only available types are stealth for -1DM or
masking for -3DM, but others may be possible in the future).

I strongly recommend adding the crew detail, no matter what format you 
use for your USPs.  Knowing the crew detail helps a LOT when trying to
decide if the ship is suitable for a given party.


Battery listings.  Yes, well.  I'm advocating a new format of the battery
listing, that also does away with the fire-control rating.  It's a bit
different than the current one, so bear with me while I explain:

This is the format for a laser, particle acellerator, or meson gun battery:
##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-## 
Example:
 1x Laser Carronade (+4) 1/4-1-1-0

The first number ("1x") is the number of such batteries installed; on a
large ship, you could easily fill the page by listing all 30 or so laser
batteries individually.  The text ("Laser Carronade") describes the weapon
system.  The number in parentheses is the total bonus (for fire-control,
rate of fire, or other factors) for this battery.  For current design
systems, just put the appropriate Fire Control Rating here, since that's the
only bonus that applies.  This will let you mix "civilian" fire-control
rating 0 weapons with "military" weapons on the same ship.  The last 5
numbers are the hits and penetration of the weapon; the first number (in
front of the slash) is the number of hits.  This is the number of rolls on
the damage tables if the weapon hits.  For all current lasers, the damage
is 1, and for all current particle acellerators and meson guns, it's 2.  The
last 4 numbers are the penetration at each range.  Please use dashes to
separate these numbers, not slashes, even with the old USP format!

This is the format for a missile battery:
##x BatteryName (##) ##/##       
w/ ##/##x MissileName #/# #G##  
Example:
 1x Missile Barbette (+4) 20/20 
 w/ 20 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12

The "1x", text, and fire-control bonus mean the same as above.  The last two
numbers on the first line ("20/20") refer to the number of missiles that can
be launched by the battery in one turn, and the number that can be guided
simultaneously.  This battery (which has 4 turrets and 5 MFDs), has 20
launch tubes, and can guide 20 missiles at once.

The second line specifies the type of missiles available (if a battery is
loaded with multiple types, each type needs its own line.  The first symbol
("w/") simply means "with".  The next number ("20") is the number of
missiles available.  The text ("Guided DetLaser") is the name of the missile,
and gives the guidance type.  The next group ("1d6/2") gives the number
of hits (rolls on the damage table) and penetration of the missile (current
detonation-laser missiles have 1d6 hits, while all other types do 1 hit). 
The last group ("6G12") gives the performance of the missile: this missle
can make 6Gs acelleration, and has enough fuel for a total of 12G-turns
(generally 6Gs for 2 turns).


Finally, I've also proposed a way to detail the ship's facilities and
carried craft.  Each line specifies the number of such facilities installed,
names them, and names or describes the craft carried.  Here are some
examples:

 1x Launch Port (50-ton fighter)
 2x Launch Tube (50-ton Fighter)
24x Spacious Hangar (50-ton Fighter)

This describes a ship (a carrier, perhaps) that has a single launch port for
use when the dual launch tubes are blocked or inoperable, and hangars for
24 50-ton fighters.

A subsidized Merchant might well be listed with:

 1x Streamlined Grapple (20-ton Boat)


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:57:50 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Aramis/Spinward Marches again!

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> > Does anybody have any information on wheather there are Ancients
> > sites in Aramis subsector?
> 
> The Spinward Marches, including the Aramis subsector, is a hotbed for
> Ancients sites.
> 
> I don't have my Trav stuff available for looking just at the moment,
> but I can tell you that there is one in the Rhylanor subsector just
> below Aramis on Rhylanor.  And, in the Yres system, in neighboring
> Regina subsector, there is space wreckage left over from the Ancient
> War.
> 
> If you have some CT stuff to referr to, look at the maps, sometimes
> they will note Ancient sites on different planets as they do Scout
> and Naval bases.

There's also one on Victoria (Lanth subsector?).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 18:08:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

On Sat, 8 Feb 1997, Derek Wildstar wrote:

> I'd like to propose a new format for the USP, if I may.  This is an
> expansion and extension of the current USP, to get a lot of the missing
> details back into the ship description.
> 
> Please read over this, and let me know what you think.

Yes, please!  This fixes so many things that I thought were nuts in the 
original USP.  I hope this becomes standard in the reprints of T4 and 
Starships!

Thank you, Guy!


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 18:20:15 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?

At 12:38 PM 2/8/97 PST, you wrote:
>Here is some of the planning factors that we use in the Army.  
>
>5 gallon/water per day per person-- Drinking, food prep. and personal
>hygene.
>10 lbs for food.  Combination of MRE and T-Rations.

Water is course the critical item.  You cna live a very long time on short
rations as long as you have potable water.

>In the future the water usage would be the same but the ship recycling
>system will be able to reclaim a good percentage of the water 80%, which
>makes water consumption about 1 gallon.

Out of curiosity, where do you get the 80% figure?  I would think even at
High Stellar levels it would be much lower.

>Using the replicator and advance technology you can probably reduce food
>consumption down to 2-4 lbs depending on what quality of food you want to
>serve.  The navy has a long tradition of serving the best food of any of
>the services.  I would tend to use the 4 lbs figure, which includes things
>like cigarettes, and personal hygene articles.

The modern US Navy has a long traditon of good food.  I know a former Soviet
sailor whose tales of Russian Naval cusine would curl your toes.  Also there
is the bulk factor, you need a certain amount of raw mass to keep an active
body healthy.  I learned this the hard way during chemotherapy.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 21:28:53 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] Azhanti High Lightning Small Craft

I apologize for the spacing. It looks good on the original. Here are the =
gunboat and the fuel=20
shuttle. You can design you own bloody 10 ton fighter.

BTW, I am about 95% finished the AHL itself. I designed a TL 14 particle =
accelerator for it=20
(20K MW output, and hooooo-boy does this thing do a lot a'damage!)

Azhanti High Lightning Class Gunboat, TL E (164.05 tons)
Tons		20 Cylinder AF	Volume   	280				Cost		MCr46.99
Crew		1			Passengers  	none (no crew quarters)
Cargo   	1.8 + varies     	Controls 	HoloLink TL E, High Integration
Size		8  			Jump     	0
FCR  		5        			G-Rating 	4-Thruster
			 		Power       	4 Fusion (3 months) (1.56 MW spare)
					Fuel		1=20
					Sensors	A8 P4 (Folding) J8 EMM
					Armour 	20       	Structure	5
Extras:
Docking Ring for 10 ton module
Communications: 1000 AU Maser

Summary:			Vol 		Power		Price 		Surface Area	Mass
Cyl AF 2.7 cm + Int Str - 8G	0.81		--		0.02		(328.9)	12.15
Thrusters 4			20		20		5		20		40	=09
Basic Life Support 		0.1		0.00		0.01		--		0.1
Artificial Gravity		2.8		1		0.14		--		5.6	=09
1 x Airlock			3		0.00		0.01		2		0.2
TL A Flt Avionics		0.00		0.1		0.25		--		0.00
TLE Terfol Avionics		0.05		0.02		0.02		--		0.02
2 x TLE Comp			16		1		10		--		3.2	=09
1 x MaserCom 1K AU  	0.1		0.6		0.18 		1		0.2	=09
1 x MFD			15.1		1.8		15.1		2		18.1
1x AEMS 240K km		2.6		13		5.2		5.2		5.2	=20
1 x PEMS FA 120K km	1.9		0.1		2.9		9		2.9
1 x Densitometer  		9		0.5		1		50		2	=09
1 x Neutrino Sensor  		5		0.01		3		--		5
EMM				5.6		0.28		1.4		2.8		2.8	=09
hololink controls - hi integ	0.32		0.02		0.05		--		0.03
40 MW fusion			13.33		(40)		2.67		--		40
3 months fuel			1		--		--		--		0.07
10 ton docking ring		140		--		0.11		49		--=09
1 WS				7		--		0.03		--		0.2
Cargo				26.28		--		--		--		26.28
				253.72		(1.56)		46.99		187.9		164.05
Notes
10 ton Modules
Cargo
MCr0.05  152.6 tons=09
Armour 20, Structure 3
Cargo 9.7 tons
Small Cargo Hatch
	=09
Passenger
MCr0.05  78.8 tons
Armour 20, Structure 3
Cargo 4.1 tons
40 Roomy Passenger Seats
Small Cargo Hatch

Gunboat=20
MCr5.68  199.27 tons
Armour 20, Structure 3
L-Btty 02 3-3-3-3
Power Plant 10
Fuel Rating 1.25 (45 days fuel)
Cargo 1.4 tons
Small Cargo Hatch						=09

Azhanti High Lightning Class Fuel Shuttle	(1711.72 tons)
Tons		400 Cylinder AF	Volume   	5600				Cost		MCr159.82
Crew		2			Passengers  	11 Roomy Seats (no crew quarters)
Cargo   	6 + 350 fuel     	Controls 	HoloLink TL E, High Integration
Size		8  			Jump     	0
FCR  		0        			G-Rating 	2-Thruster
			 		Power       	1.5 Fusion (5.71 MW spare)
					Fuel		7.1 Scoop
					Sensors	A8 P6 (Folding) J8 EMM
					Armour 	10       	Structure	13
Extras:
Small Cargo Hatch
Can scoop its full load in 0.5 hours
Communications: 2 x 1000 AU Maser, 1000 AU Radio
Crew:
Pilot
Engineer/Electronics

Summary:			Vol 		Power		Price 		Surface Area	Mass
Hull Cyl AF  hull 1.5 cm	1.15		--		0.03		(2145)		17.26
INt Str - 4G			2.36		--		0.07		--		35.4
Thrusters 2 			200		200		50		200		400	=09
Ext. Life Support 		3.2		0.08		0.2		--		3.2
Artificial Gravity		56		28		2.8		--		112	=09
4 x Airlocks 			12		0.00		0.00		8		0.8
2 x Large Cargo Hatches 	--		--		0.04		40		--
Scoop 200% of load/hr 	--		--		0.42		1072.5		--
TL A Flt Avionics		0.00		0.1		0.25		--		0.00
TL E Terfol Avionics		0.05		0.02		0.02		--		0.02
2 x TLE Comp			16		1		15		--		0.48	=09
2 x MaserCom 1K AU  	0.2		1.2		0.36 		2		0.4=09
1 x RadioCom 1K AU 	0.1 		20		0.15		200		0.2=09
1 x AEMS 240K km		2.6		13		5.2 		5.2		5.2
1 x PEMS FA 180K km	20		0.2		22		180		22	=20
1 x Densitometer  		9		0.5		1		50		2	=09
1 x Neutrino Sensor  		5		0.01		3		0.52		5
1 x EMSJam.240K km 	2.6		26		10.4		0.6		5.2
EMM				112		5.6		28		56		56	=09
hololink controls - hi integ	6.44		0.58		0.92		--		0.64
300 MW Fusion		100		(300)		20		--		300
1 year=B9s fuel			30		--		--		--		2.1
11 Roomy Seats		22		--		--		--		1.1
2 WS				14		--		--		--		0.2
Fuel Tanks			4900		--		--		--		343
Cargo				84		--		--		--		84

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 05:28:08 -0800
From: Jay Stranahan <jaystr@best.com>
Subject: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN -- SOUND THE CALL TO ARMS!

I saw this in the rec.org.sca newsgroup, and -- like the person who
posted it -- thought it important enough to pass along. Get your asses
in gear & email these guys before it's too late.

Yours in service to a free Web,

- -- Jay Stranahan



This appeared in an email and I thought it important enough to send 
along to everyone I can think of.

        A very important matter is currently under review by the FCC. 
Your 
local phone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose a per
minute 
charge for your internetd service.  They contend that your usage has or
will 
hinder the operation of the telephone network.

        It is my view that the use of the internet will be severely
damaged 
by this if users are required to pay additional perminute charges.

        The FCC has created an emali box for your comments.  Responses
must 
be received by February 13, 1997.

        Send them to:   isp@fcc.gov  

        Tell them what you think.

        EVERY phone company is in on this one!  And, they are trying to
sneak 
it in just under the wire for litigation.  Let EVERYONE you know hear
about 
this.  Email this to them and forward it to all the newsgroups you can. 
Let 
us all present a united front of this attempt to limit our FREEDOMS!!

        Here is the FCC addy again:   isp@fcc.gov

        Let our voices be heard!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 21:43:51 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] oops

I seem to have misplaced the AHL stats, or at least my partacc design for it
Should I bother to post this? Especially seeing as these stats will in all likelyhood, be 
rendered useless if (and when ) IG publishes NAH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:50:13 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] AHL

aw, hell....here it is anyway

If you like it, good
If not, well then, too bad

Azhanti High Lightning Frontier Cruiser(SSDS, with a little help from FF&S)

Tons: 60000 Std (Slab SL)		Volume: 840000 m^3           	Cost: 38861.92 MCr
Crew: 404              			High/Mid Pass: 0             	Low: 320
Cargo: 424.8 Std    			Controls: Hololink Hi-Integ (Bridge,Auxiliary)  TL E         	                          
10 Size                               												5 Jump Drive (6000 Std/Pc Fuel)
10 x Lt Laser (10) 10-10-10-10  			2 Maneuver (Thruster,60000 Mw), no CG
1 x partacc (1)	39-34-28-23											2.9 Power Plant (1 x 87000 Mw) 
10 x Msl Barb (5 each)																			428700 Fuel(S 85740, R 9000/6h)
200 Sandcasters (4000 Cans)   						A16 P7 J16 Sensors (EMM)
2 x 50 Nuke Damper (2 hex range)		160 Armor, 53 Structure
11 Meson Screen (10 Gw)	

Crew Detail: 54 Command, 1 Sensors, 81 Gunners, 144 Engineer, 8 Steward, 19 Medical, 
21 Maintenance,    2 Maneuver, 150 Troops

Azhanti High Lightning Class Frontier Cruiser General Data, TL E

Summary:			Vol 		Power		Price 		Surface Area	Mass
Hull SL Slab hull 80cm	50400		--		1411.2		(63000)	756000
INt Str - 4G			2520		--		70.56		--		37800	
Thrusters 2 			30000  	60000		3750		6000		60000		
Jump 5 			50400 		--		15120		16800		151200	
Jump Fuel			420000	--		--		--		29400		
Ext. Life Support 		480		12		30		--		480
320 x Low Berth 		4480		0.32		32		--		320		
Artificial Gravity		8400 		4200		420		--		16800		
600 x Airlocks 		1800		0.6		3		1200		120
2 x Large Cargo Hatches 	--		--		0.04 		24		--
Missile Lockers (1500)	10500		--		--		--		10500
Scoop 20% of load 		--		--		63 		3150		--
TL A Flt Avionics		0.001		0.1		0.25		--		0.0001
TL E Terfol Avionics		0.05		0.02		0.02		--		0.02
3 x TLE CompFib		48		4.5		45		--		14.4		
4 x Electronics Shop 		336		2.4		4		--		160		
4 x Machine Shop 		560		8		8		--		480		
4 x Lab 			448		3.2		20		--		200		
8 x Sick Bay 			896		6.4		40		--		400		
8 x MaserCom 1K AU  	0.8		4.8		1.44 		8		1.6	
4 x RadioCom 1K AU 	0.4 		40		0.6		800		0.8	
4 x 400 ton Docking Rings	22400		--		4.48		4608		--		
6 x 20 ton Int. Min.Hanger 	3360		--		1.08		384		672		 
60 x 10 ton Int. Min Hangar 	16800  	--		6.6  		2940		3360
2 x 10 ton Launch Tubes 	7000	  	70		1.06  		196		3500	
100 x Scaster Turret (40)	4200		100		90		1000		5000	 
100 x Msl Barb		8400		15		11		1600		7040		 
50 x Ndamper (60k)		6410		600		408		600		6050		 
100 x 170 MJ Lt Laser	4200		9440		95		1000		6443	
168 x MFD			2536.8		302.4		2536.8		246		2536.8
Meson screen			10000		500		1000		5000		7500
Fuel Purif (126000/6 hrs)	31500		630		17.64		--		63000		
4 x AEMS 480K km		20		100		40		40		40		 
2 x PEMS 210K km		95		0.5		190		900		100 		
2 x Densitometer  		18		1		2		100		4		
2 x Neutrino Sensor  		10		0.02		6		--		10
4 x EMSJam.480K km 	20		200		80		4		40
EMM				16800		840		4200		8400		8400		
150 x sm. staterooms-troops	2800		0.05		4		--		600
hololink controls - hi integ	966		69		138		--		96.6
partacc 20 MJ			9936.13	5555.56	910.43		56.54		8371.2
87000 MW Fusion		29000		(87000)	5800		--		87000
1 year fuel			8700		--		--		--		609
54 deluxe staterooms		4536		0.08		8.1		--		324
350 staterooms		19600		0.35		35		--		1400
808 workstations 		7588		--		1.616		--		161.6
				5947.32	(2420.37)	40220.92	7853.46	1268837
						         
NOTES:
Has auxiliary bridge
2 MFDs for each battery, except missiles (one per) and ten reserve
Weapons are 10 per battery except partacc (one)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #929
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 9 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 930



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] ISBA
[TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs
[TML] Re: USP for THUDDD
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
[TML] Re: High Guard: Fleet Logistics?
Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs
[TML] Thanks for the Help
[TML] RE: Meassurement Systems
Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?
[TML] Re: TML: IG Pricing
Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers
Re: [TML] Re: Sandcasters
[TML] RE: T4 HTML Format
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Please Read!
[TML] Glenn Hoppe's Sub Merchant Marathon map.
[TML] Updated THUDDD USD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 22:46:21 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: [TML] ISBA

Cover Story of  Syledon Corporate News:042-000  Part I of III

Earlier this month on 037-000  XTech Industries and Founder Ship Works
made an offer to several major Ship Building Firms for the creation of
The Imperium Ship Builders Association.  The response was very
positive and even succeeded in the creation of a new firm on Ordun. 
Because of this response the ISBA Founders now wish to make the ISBA
known to the general public.  The following announcement was made on
034-000.

                            Imperium Ship Builders
                                     Association

The association is to be a non profit organization dedicated to the
advancement of the Ship Building Industry.  This organization is
expected to play  an important  rule in the Imperium since the
industry is the back bone of the Imperium.  Contacted either Founder
Ship Works or X Tech Industries for more information.


The following are examples of the replies.

From the winner of the recent IISS design contest

Capt. Sir Jerami Danjo, CEO of the Phoenix Corporation, announced
Phoenix's whole hearted support of the proposed Imperium Ship Builders
Association (ISBA) today. Sir Jerami was quoted as saying:

  "This organization is long overdue, the glue that holds any
   interstellar society together is spaceborne commerce, and the
   substance of that glue are the ships it is carried on. The ship
   building industry has always been at the forefront of technological
   innovation and will be a vital and vibrant force in the new
   Imperium's economy......."

The famous Famille Spofulam says

"Famille Spofulam greets with enthusiasm the formation of the
Imperium Ship Builders Association, and wishes to state that it
welcomes this development.  Famille Spofulam Yards, FS's shipbuilding
division, is proud to become a member of such a distinguished
organization."

In a private communica obtained by this paper, to Founder Ship Works, 
FeZUnA from the Confederation of Altec  says.

 I'm game.  

Where do I sign up?


FeZUnA
Ship Building Division
Confederation of Altec
This make the organization an Installer Organization not just an
Imperium one.

to be continued

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 00:04:55 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> I wrote:
> >On the other hand, ton for ton and credit for credit, a battle rider is
> >a more powerful combat warship than a battleship.
> 
> Unfortunately this is no longer true, [...]  And for some
> reason the cost of jump drives have been reduced by NINETY PERCENT!! (Count 
> them, 90!!) in the QSDS system. (I assume that the price reduction was
> already introduced in FF&S [..]).

Um ... Err ... Well, no.

It's an error in QSDS.  :-(

The price is low by a factor of 14; I referenced the wrong cell in the
spreadsheet that generated the jump drive tables for QSDS.  It aparrently
was wrong in every version I put out, and nobody noticed the error
until a few months after T4 was printed.  I didn't notice the error until
someone pointed it out to me.

For what it's worth, its correct in SSDS and FF&S; it'll be fixed in the
next version of QSDS as well.

This is why for the January ship design contest I _had_ to know what design
system people used - so I could correct the price for QSDS ships so that
they could be compared fairly to SSDS designs.  This was important, since
overall price was one of the significant factors in the judging.

> I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I really, really dislike
> changes in the design systems that has a profound impact on the background.

So do I; and this error is one that I'm genuinely embarrased about, because
it's something I should have caught very early in the QSDS design phase.
One of the reasons for trying to make QSDS 2.0 a significantly better
product than 1.x is to entice people to switch, even though the 1.x
designs will be cheaper.

> Or like the bridge with a minimum size of 20 T that 
> is suddenly no longer necessary in starships, which means that Jump-5 and
> Jump-6 X-boats become practical the moment the proper TL is reached.

It was a 10-ton bridge, and that one wasn't my fault, and besides, there's a
good political reason for keeping x-boats limited to j-4 and its really not
my fault.  ;-)

> For example, I'd advocate changing the per ton price of jump drives to
> 1 MCr times the square of the jump number. That is, MCr1/T for jump-1
> engines, MCr4/T for jump-2 engines, MCr9/T for jump-3 engines, etc. This 
> would make jump-1 ships cheaper, which would cause some problems, but it
> would also make most military ships more expensive, which would help
> reconcile TCS budgets with the size of the Imperial Navy as it is
> described in _Rebellion_.

Hmm ... interesting proposal.  Why not take it to the Beta list, and see
what the rest of them think?  I _could_ do that in the next edition of QSDS,
but I don't want to break with what the NAH folks are doing.  A related
useful change might be to make J-drive surface area a percentage of the
surface area of the ship.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:44:50 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: USP for THUDDD

>From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
>Subject: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
>
>Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System)
>
>Tons: ### Std (Config)    Volume: ###### m^3           Cost: #### MCr
<<<...snippage...>>>
>Notes: Explanations and details of the above as needed.

Thanks Wildstar!  Unless anyone has a problem with this format, I'd like to
propose that we strongly consider this format for the THUDDD contest.  I
personally prefer the "## Rating" format.  I agree too that the sdesign
sequence needs to be included somewhere (like in parenthesis behind the name
or class).

What say you Roderick?

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 00:46:18 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

Jay Stranahan writes: 

>TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN -- SOUND THE CALL TO ARMS!
>
>I saw this in the rec.org.sca newsgroup, and -- like the person who
>posted it -- thought it important enough to pass along. Get your asses
>in gear & email these guys before it's too late.
>
>Yours in service to a free Web,

   Generally I take everything posted to newsgroups with a 50 pound (25
kg) block of salt (a grain is far too small).  There is enough urban
legend (things that sound true but aren't) circulating around that you
can fill multivolume sets with it.

   How do the phone companies propose to tell the difference between a
guy who dials up a local Internet provider and some 16 year old who is
just keeping the phone tied up for hours talking to their boy/girl
friend?  The answer is that it's impossible unless they start charging
for all phone usage above a certain number of minutes (figuring that
heavy users are typically computer geeks cruising the Internet), or if
they force Internet service providers to use certain exchanges within
the calling area--I don't know that this is legal.

   When you think about this logically, it would not be in the best
interest of phone companies to charge for access.  Why?  Because here in
the US, cable companies are starting to come on line providing Internet
access.  The minute that the phone companies start charging for access,
people will desert the phone line-based ISPs and simply switch to
cable-based providers (who don't charge per minute).  Also, where is the
outrage that you would presume would be expressed by companies like AOL,
Compuserve, etc.over something like this?  As many phone companies are
getting into Internet service provision themselves, charging a service
fee for the use of other ISPs is a anti-trust law suit waiting to
happen, and the FCC would reject the phone companies' request out of
hand.  

   Surely something like *this* would have made major news in the
business sections of major newspapers, CNN, the wire services, etc. and
yet I have heard nothing about this before.  I am afraid it's likely
that all of this is so much Barbara Streisand (BS).  

   I would suggest that rather that badgering the FCC with bogus e-mail,
that instead if you are concerned (and if you don't live in the US, you
have nothing to worry about), first send the FCC a short e-mail asking
if it is true, and *then* if it is, send them a note telling them why
you are against it.  If anyone does contact the FCC in this fashion and
the FCC says it's BS, then please post the reply here so that our US
subscribers can save some bandwidth.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 00:59:17 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

On 02/08/97 at 06:02 PM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:


> I'd like to propose a new format for the USP, if I may.  This is an
> expansion and extension of the current USP, to get a lot of the missing
> details back into the ship description.

> Please read over this, and let me know what you think.

I like it. There's a lot of work here, I appreciate the effort.

> BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##   

This looks like it goes with some of the ideas you were proposing over in
Beta for normalizing weapons from personal to ship.  The penetration values
might get into triple digits for some weapons, mighten they?


Eris


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:11:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: High Guard: Fleet Logistics?

> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 18:20:15 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> 
> >In the future the water usage would be the same but the ship recycling
> >system will be able to reclaim a good percentage of the water 80%, which
> >makes water consumption about 1 gallon.
> 
> Out of curiosity, where do you get the 80% figure?  I would think even at
> High Stellar levels it would be much lower.

Why?  If your hatch gaskets are working properly, a ship in transit is an
utterly closed system; every atom on board at the start of the voyage
stays aboard unless you voluntarily toss it away (e.g., missiles, HEPlaR
reaction mass).  Within the ship's environement, you will gradually
accumulate *more* water than you started with, as food metabolism is
(very) basically the conversion of sugarlike molecules into carbon dioxide
and water.  This excess water emerges from humans in two major ways --
respiration/sweating and urination/defecation.  It's relatively trivial to
recover water from the latter via distillation; the former winds up in the
ship's air supply, from which it may easily be extracted using a cold trap
if nothing more sophisticated is available.

In short, I have no trouble imagining a well-designed spacecraft achieving
90+ percent water reuse efficiency even at TL 8-9. 

> The modern US Navy has a long traditon of good food.  I know a former Soviet
> sailor whose tales of Russian Naval cusine would curl your toes.  Also there
> is the bulk factor, you need a certain amount of raw mass to keep an active
> body healthy.  I learned this the hard way during chemotherapy.

Within the US Navy, the submariners eat best, and within *that* group, the
boomer jockeys (strategic missile sub crew) do best of all.  Nobody...
*nobody*... wants the crew of a vessel capable of destroying 20 cities to
become disgruntled.  The same might apply (even more so) to military
spacecraft. 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 01:10:28 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs

> 1 MCr times the square of the jump number. That is, MCr1/T for jump-1
> engines, MCr4/T for jump-2 engines, MCr9/T for jump-3 engines, etc. This 
> would make jump-1 ships cheaper, which would cause some problems, but it
> would also make most military ships more expensive, which would help
> reconcile TCS budgets with the size of the Imperial Navy as it is
> described in _Rebellion_.

The Tech Level that the Jump Drive is built at should affect it's cost, as
well.  I would think jump-1 drives would become less expensive as the
current level of technology moves up to jump-2 and jump-3.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 56 21:21:10 -0000
From: Jason Doell <jdoell@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: [TML] Thanks for the Help

After having written in about my problem sorting my mail due to there 
being no prefix for traveller mail, I have decided to change e-mail 
programs. I am now using Claris E-Mailer and it does many things that my 
old e-mail program did not, including a filter for the the Reply-to 
field. I want to thank all who sent me info on how to deal with my 
e-mail. Not that I also would not like to see a header for the mailing 
list, but that now it is less pressing for me. I think though that others 
might still benefit from it if their e-mail program worked liked mine 
did. 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jason Doell - Univ. of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon Canada, 
<jdoell@eagle.wbm.ca>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun,  9 Feb 97 09:36:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: [TML] RE: Meassurement Systems

    You're forgetting the one constant that the Imperium CAN count on.  The
speed of light.  Thus to set standards around the Imperium the Bureau of
Standards sets up a standard radio broadcast of Sylean time.  So what it takes
three point whatever years to travel one parsec.  Cleon and company are
planning for an Imperium to last thousands of years!  They have the time to
wait.
    In about four hundred years that first original signal from Sylea will have
reached every corner of the Imperium.  Then all you have to know is your
distance from Sylea and you have the Imperium stadard time. ;) Simple, easy and
accurate.  Any TL 5+ world can tune in on it and do the necessary math.

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:49:40 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?

At 07:47 8/02/1997 +0000, you wrote:
>I am working on some advanced campaign rules for High Guard/TCS
>and am looking for ideas.

>I have a set of rules called "The Modern Naval Campaign" that is in 
>very poor condition, but had some ideas on how to deal with this.

>it suggests 1 ton of solid stores per 100 crew members every 4 days
>how would this be affected by the high tech of a High Guard era 
>campaign?

I ran a turn of the century naval campaign a few years ago and
did a fair amount of reseach on this. The average figure for
supplies (per person per day) I came up with after looking at
the records of the Grand Fleet stationed at Scapa Flow during
1st WW was 5kg of food and 20kg of water (fresh). On top of this
had to be added routine consumables for the fleet (practice ammo,
maintaince parts etc). From what little I understand of space
flight around 90% to 95% of water used can be recycled. High tech
will not effect food requirements much, moral will suffer if the
crew spend too much time eating high calorie algae. Onboard
hydroponic gardens are likely to provide a portion of the required
food (akin to the livestock carried by 18th and 19th century sailing
ships). Remember that without long term preservative techniques,
fresh food will only last about a week.

Hope this helps some.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 17:59:46 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: [TML] Re: TML: IG Pricing

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Colin Hollands wrote:
> Well, i was going to order a year supply of JTAS, 1 DM screen and imperial
> citzenship at 57 dollars, but i cancelled the order when the online system
> just tried to charge me 30 dollars shipping costs to the UK.

I'm also very concerned about IG's prices for shipping.  This tuesday my
C&S 3rd edition copy (ordered from Terry Austin/Hyperbooks Online --
shamless plug) was shipped.  It arrived this saturday morning (five days
for transporting it from the USA to Germany by air mail) and shipping was
$6.95.  C&S3 is easily as large as any of the IG products and Hyperbooks
Online for sure is much smaller than IG.  Therefor they really should be
able to get better prices for shipping (and yes, my C&S3 package was
reasonable packaged).

Ciao,

				Thomas.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 20:37:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

In mail you write:

> At 09:47 PM 2/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>I have been working on such a device, I was going to post them as the
> official "Wrong 
>>Trousers" stats
>>
> I am so happy I get to host The Silly Era.. sub-orbital pogo sticks, Wallis
> and Grommit tech..

I think the official book of The Silly Era should be "Star Smashers of
the Galaxy Rangers". I forget the author. Probably Harry Harrison.

To begin with their power source is "Cheddite", a mysterious substance
extracted from cheddar cheese....


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:21:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Sandcasters

In mail you write:

> The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand
> is supposed to ablate or reflect laser beams, it will be far more
> effective to coat your ship with it as ARMOR, than to waste most of it
> by shooting it into space.

Slight problem. You suffer from a common misconception regarding *how*
weapons grade lasers cause damage.

They do *not* "burn through" armor, nor do they boil it off. They hit
it with so much energy that the surface layer *explodes* because it
can't get rid of the energy fast enough. Ablative coatings *don't* help
except *possibly* in in the case of an underpowered laser on continuous
beam. Because if the beam is powerful enough to damage with a normal
pulse (or beam), the ablative layer will make it *easier* to damage you
because by vaporizing faster, it increases the blast damage.

"Armor" against lasers can any of the following:

Reflective coatings. Trouble is, the slightest scratch or bit of dust
will create a hot spot that negates the effects. You can't keep a
sufficiently good surface on a ship that travels thru space at the
speeds ships routinely reach.

Refractory coatings. These are the exact opposite of ablative coatings.
They take a *lot* of energy to vaporize. The downside is that most are
brittle ceramics and make lousy armor. Worse, it was discovered that
many (possibly all) ceramics have a weakness. Hit them with a
surprisingly *low* amount of laser energy at the right frequency and
they crumble. This was first discovered when the Air Force started
working on lasers vs missiles. They discovered that a one *kilowatt*
beam from the laser they were using shattered a standard missile
nosecone. Pure luck that they were using the right sort of laser... :-)
Even if refractory coatings "work" it just means that the layer that
explodes is thinner. You still get the same amount of energy deposited
via the shockwave.

Spaced armor. You let the laser blow a hole in a thin layer of armor
that is seperated from the hull by spacers. As long as the hit isn't
too close to a spacer and you don't get hit in the same place twice,
they waste their shots blowing away the outer "shell".

Those are the *real world* defenses against lasers. 

"Sand" is just a variant on spaced armor. No matter what, the beam is
going to deposit *some* energy in whatever it hits. Sand has a far more
perfect reflecting surface than your ship can maintain. And when the
energy it can't reflect or refract vaporizes it, the "blast" only
affects the individual particles, not the ship (unless you didn't have
enough sand in the way).

I go for all the help I can get, which is why *I* would design sand to
have the optimum mix of the properties I listed the other day. The
"crystals" may not reflect or refract *much of the energy, but every
little bit helps.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 22:26:53 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: [TML] RE: T4 HTML Format

Hello Lewis,
>I have built a number of ships, and I am converting them to HTML. So
>far I have written most of them in FFS style, but I have the T4 UDS
>stats for them, and I was wondering if anyone has a template for T4
>ships, that they could send me?

  I am assuming that what you were after is a HTML format USP template?
If so, I have attached an example below. No prizes for guessing what I
was working on this for, but ran out of time! :-|

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>SSDS Spaceship: Wills Class Imperial Scout</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<CENTER><H1>Wills Class Imperial Scout</H1></CENTER><P>
</P><CENTER><H2>Universal Ship Profile</H2></CENTER>
<TABLE BORDER> <CAPTION> Wills Class Imperial Scout </CAPTION>
<TR><TD>Tons: 300</TD><TD>Volume: 4200</TD><TD>Cost in MCr: 150.988</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Crew: 8</TD><TD>Passengers High/Medium: 0 / 8</TD><TD>Passengers Low: 0</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Cargo: 34</TD><TD>Controls: Exploration/Survey</TD><TD>Tech Level: 12</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD></TR>
<TR><TD>08 Size Rating</TD><TD></TD><TD>2 Jump Rating</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>00 Fire Control Rating</TD><TD></TD><TD>2 G Rating Thruster Plates/HEPlaR</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>1 Hvy Laser 2-1-0-0</TD><TD></TD><TD>2 Power Plant Rating</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>90 Fuel Rating /R /S</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>0 Meson Screen Rating</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>0 Sand Caster Rating</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>0 Damper Rating</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>10 A 4 P 0 J Sensor Rating</TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD></TR>
<TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>2 Armour     8 Structure</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<H3>Notes</H3>
<P>TL 12 Streamlined Dome/Disc hull with 3 airlocks. Jump Fuel held allows for 2 parsecs
travel. 1G Thruster Plates. 1G HEPlaR with 10 hours fuel. Stndrd auto Dynamic Controls.
Installed inertial compensators will compensate for up to 3Gs. 251Mj TL12 Laser Turret.
1 Laboratory. 1 Sick Bay. 18 Large Staterooms. The fuel purification plant will refine 700m^3
of fuel per 6 hours. The fuel scoops can gather 20% of the total fuel held each hour. 3 100MW
TL12 Fusion Plant power plants with 1 years fuel. Crew consists of 0.496556 Maintenance,
0.875 Eng - Power Plant, 1 Eng - Drives, 3 Electronics, 2 Maneuvering, 1 Command,
0.265 Stewards, 0.127208 Medical, 1 Misc and 1 Custom crew. </P>
<P></P><CENTER><H2>Design Details</H2></CENTER>
Spaceship Name: Wills Class Imperial Scout<BR>
Tech Level: 12<BR>
Displacement: 300<P><P>
<TABLE BORDER> <CAPTION> Spaceship Component List </CAPTION>
<TR><TH>Component</TH><TH>Mass</TH><TH>Volume</TH><TH>Surf Area</TH><TH>Power</TH><TH>Price</TH></TR><TR><TD> 300t S Dome/Disc A:40 1G</TD> <TD>634.05</TD><TD>-4148.77</TD><TD>-1436</TD><TD>0.003</TD><TD>0.9523</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> 2 parsec Jump Drive</TD> <TD>378</TD><TD>126</TD><TD>42</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>37.8</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> 1G Thruster Plates</TD> <TD>150</TD><TD>75</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>75</TD><TD>18.75</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> 1G HEPlaR</TD> <TD>15</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>0.15</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Stndrd auto Dynamic Controls</TD> <TD>0.441</TD><TD>4.41</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.315</TD><TD>0.4725</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> TL 12 Exploration/Survey</TD> <TD>51.6</TD><TD>66.4</TD><TD>285</TD><TD>69.41</TD><TD>46.78</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Standard Life Sup</TD> <TD>2.4</TD><TD>2.4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.06</TD><TD>0.15</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Artificial Gravity</TD> <TD>84</TD><TD>42</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>2.1</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> 251Mj TL12 Laser Turret</TD> <TD>139.69</TD><TD>84</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>6.97</TD><TD>2.43</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Laboratory</TD> <TD>50</TD><TD>112</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>5</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Sick Bay</TD> <TD>50</TD><TD>112</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>5</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Large Stateroom (x18)</TD> <TD>72</TD><TD>1008</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.018</TD><TD>1.8</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Fuel Purification Plant (x700)</TD> <TD>560</TD><TD>280</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>4.2</TD><TD>0.112</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Fuel Scoops (x20)</TD> <TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>72.1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.005</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Cargo</TD> <TD>56</TD><TD>224</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Cargo</TD> <TD>63</TD><TD>252</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Large Cargo Hatch</TD> <TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.02</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> 100MW TL12 Fusion Plant (x3)</TD> <TD>600</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>-300</TD><TD>30</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Regular WorkStation (x8)</TD> <TD>1.6</TD><TD>56</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.012</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Fuel</TD> <TD>88.2</TD><TD>1260</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR>
<TR><TD> Total</TD> <TD>2995.98</TD><TD>-279.56</TD><TD>-970.9</TD><TD>28.576</TD><TD>151.523</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<P><P>
<TABLE BORDER> <CAPTION> Passengers </CAPTION>
<TR><TH>Type</TH><TH>Number</TH></TR><TR><TD>Low</TD><TD>0</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Middle</TD><TD>8</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>High</TD><TD>0</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<p><p>
<TABLE BORDER> <CAPTION> Crew </CAPTION>
<TR><TH>Type</TH><TH>Number</TH></TR><TR><TD>Maintenance</TD><TD>0.496556</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Eng - Power Plant</TD><TD>0.875</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Eng - Drives</TD><TD>1</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Electronics</TD><TD>3</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Maneuvering</TD><TD>2</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Command</TD><TD>1</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Stewards</TD><TD>0.265</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Medical</TD><TD>0.127208</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Misc</TD><TD>1</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Custom</TD><TD>1</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Total crew</TD><TD>8</TD></TR>
</TABLE><P>
This Traveller spaceship was generated using SSDSCalc 0.10, written by James Dempsey.
Traveller is a registered trademark of Farfuture Enterprises. All rights reserved.
</BODY>
</HTML>

Bye,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 08:52:05 PST
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

Mr Hale wrote:
> The answer is that it's impossible unless they start charging
> for all phone usage above a certain number of minutes (figuring that
> heavy users are typically computer geeks cruising the Internet), or if
> they force Internet service providers to use certain exchanges within
> the calling area--I don't know that this is legal.
>
The ISP numbers would become toll number just like 1-900.  Easy to do this.
 T-Online the German Phone company does it now.
 
>    When you think about this logically, it would not be in the best
> interest of phone companies to charge for access.  Why?  Because here in
> the US, cable companies are starting to come on line providing Internet
> access.  The minute that the phone companies start charging for access,
> people will desert the phone line-based ISPs and simply switch to
> cable-based providers (who don't charge per minute).

Why would the phone companies care if we went to cable internet access?  We
will still have phones in our homes, but we will just use them less to call
local ISPs.  The phone companies will still receive the basic service fees
but will provide less service (less use).  If I was a phone company I would
think that was a good deal.

JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:07:57 -0600 (CST)
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: [TML] Please Read!

My wonderful mail account was blown out of the water, causing the loss of
everything I downloaded since this Friday from the TML for reading. If
anyone has sent me email, please resend.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:32:01 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Glenn Hoppe's Sub Merchant Marathon map.

        Those of you with Macs will surely know about Marathon (gorgeous 3d
SF-themed DOOMer)...  And those of you who have visited his Jumpspace web
site will know that he has two marathon maps up there.

        I must report that sadly, with respect to the one he did based on
the Subsidized Merchant, that he has committed a grievous breach of canon;
while the upper deck is very nicely done, HE PUT TWO BLOODY JUGGERNAUTS IN
THE HOLD!!!

        I'm still twitching from the shock of it all... the horror... the horror

        Nice map Glenn... any more like this in store?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:31:53 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Updated THUDDD USD

        Ok people... I think that Wildstar's improved USD is precisely
that, so let's use that instead.  I'll repost the full WUSD (:>) post
tonight when I tally up the votes and launch the contest...



WIldstar wrote:

>
>
>Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System)
>
>Tons: ### Std (Config)    Volume: ###### m^3           Cost: #### MCr
>Crew: ####                High/Mid Pass: ####          Low: ##
>Cargo: ## Std             Controls: Type (Bridge)      TL: ##
>
>## Size                               ## Jump Drive (## Std/Pc Fuel)
>                                      ## Maneuver (Type, ## Mw)
>##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##    ## Power Plant (#x ##Mw)
>##x BatteryName (##) ##/##            ## Fuel (Scoop ##, Refine ##)
> w/ ## MissileName #/# #G##           ## Meson Screen (## Mw)
>                                      ## Sandcasters (#### Cans)
>##x LaunchFacility (Craft)            ## Nuclear Damper
>##x HangarFacility (Craft)            A# P# J# Sensors (# Stealth/Cloak)
>                                      ## Armor, ## Structure
>
>Crew Detail: ## Command, ## Sensors, ## Gunners, ## Engineer, ## Steward
>             ## Troops, etc as needed ...
>
>Notes: Explanations and details of the above as needed.
>
>Additional comments and description of the ship may follow in additional
>paragraphs.   USPs and comments for carried craft follow.
>
>
>Thoughts on USPs in general:
>I think the description and notes are much better at the end, rather than at
>the top (above the name or class).  This allows the start of an entry to be
>visually distinctive - much easier for the referee to locate when he or she
>needs the information in a hurry.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #930
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 9 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 931



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Jump drive prices
[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Traveller on IRC
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
[TML] Re: THUDDD voting so far...
[TML] Re: TRV: THUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
[TML] whoops again
Re:[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller
[TML] Re: CCG killed RPG
[TML] Re: things.
[TML] Shadow's comments on lasers
[TML] Re: Bab5, Trek
Re: [TML] for your disappointment
[TML] Starships is broken (surprise, surprise)
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs
Re: [TML] for your disappointment
Re: [TML] Re: Genoee posts
Re: [TML] Starships is broken (surprise, surprise)
[TML] ISBA part 2
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
[TML] Re:  Traveller-digest V1997 #930

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:31:58 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re:[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

Jay Stranahan wrote:

>
>TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN -- SOUND THE CALL TO ARMS!
>
>I saw this in the rec.org.sca newsgroup, and -- like the person who
>posted it -- thought it important enough to pass along. Get your asses
>in gear & email these guys before it's too late.
>
>Yours in service to a free Web,
>
>- -- Jay Stranahan


        No offense, Jay, but that minnow looks kinda plastic and
artificially jointed, and those fishhooks awfully sharp.  And sneaking
things under the wire for "litigation"?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 10:33:54 -0500
From: Doug Sinclair <diemos@ican.net>
Subject: [TML] Jump drive prices

The jump drive prices in QSDS are wrong.  The prices are in MCr per
m^3, instead of MCr per ton.  Once you clear that up, they cost
about the same amount as they did in High Guard.  So, battle riders
still work.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:00:13 +0900
From: Armand Suarez <suarez@on.rim.or.jp>
Subject: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

>>>A very important matter is currently under review by the FCC. Your local 
phone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose a per minute 
charge for your internet service.  They contend that your usage has or will 
hinder the operation of the telephone network.

Gee, it's like that in Japan now (since the beginning).  Local calls were 
never free here.  I envy you guys. :-(

- --
Armand Suarez (suarez@on.rim.or.jp)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:19:13 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: [TML] Traveller on IRC

Greetings!

We had a very pleasant time last Thursday discussing Play By Email.  
I will try to get the transcript on IG's website in the next day or 
two.  A big thank you to Paul Walker for his efforts in leading the 
discussion!

This week we will be discussing ship to ship combat.  Michael L. 
Galligan, aka TeflonKid will be leading our discussion.  Thank you, 
Michael!

We will be meeting on the Imperium Games website, imperiumgames.com, 
ports 6665 & 6666.  We will begin at 8pm EST.

Future events:

Saturday, February 15, 1997,  Design Workshop II - SSDS 101, CmdrX
Thursday, February 27, 1997, Planetology 101, Doug Berry

As always, if you need help getting on IRC with us, please let me 
know.  I'll help any way I can!

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:47:17 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

Guy Garnett wrote:
>
> Please read over this [new format for the USP], and let me know
> what you think.

If the power output and requirements (in Mw) are given for some
items, like power plants, maneuver drives, screens, and such, then I
wonder if there's a simple way to include the same information for
other power hogs like sensors, communicators, weapons, and the like,
since power plant hits should reduce power output?

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 17:27 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDDD voting so far...

In-Reply-To: <v01510104af1fe0b49020@[198.168.183.231]>

I vote for Patrol Cruiser.

     ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 17:27 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: [TML] Re: TRV: THUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970207121543.00698378@london.mis.slb.com>

<< As for the Protion? Motorbike, sounds good except for one thing, if my
understanding of G forces etc are correct, don't go around a corner on it
if the frame is only rated to 1G it would buckle >>

Hey, at...what was it, 700km/h?...you can pretty much forget about 
cornering anyway.

"oh look, here comes..." 

<SMASH!>

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:33:04 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] whoops again

I noticed an error in the AHL stats I posted....here are the corrected ones

The error was the number of MFDs. Now each battery of five missiles can fire 5 missiles a 
turn

And again, I apologize for the spacing

Now, once again, I know how Carlos feels...I post this bloody thing and get no responses

Azhanti High Lightning Frontier Cruiser TL E	

Crew Detail: 
57 Command, 1 Electronics, 91 Gunners, 144 Engineer, 8 Steward, 19 Medical, 21 
Maintenance, 2 Maneuver, 150 Troops

Summary:			Vol 		Power		Price 		Surface Area	Mass
Hull SL Slab hull 80cm	50400		--		1411.2		(63000)	756000
INt Str - 4G			2520		--		70.56		--		37800	
Thrusters 2 			30000  	60000		3750		6000		60000		
Jump 5 			50400 		--		15120		16800		151200	
Jump Fuel			420000	--		--		--		29400		
Ext. Life Support 		480		12		30		--		480
320 x Low Berth 		4480		0.32		32		--		320		
Artificial Gravity		8400 		4200		420		--		16800		
600 x Airlocks 		1800		0.6		3		1200		120
2 x Large Cargo Hatches 	--		--		0.04 		24		--
Missile Lockers (1500)	10500		--		--		--		10500
Scoop 20% of load 		--		--		63 		3150		--
TL A Flt Avionics		0.001		0.1		0.25		--		0.0001
TLA Terfol Avionics		0.05		0.02		0.02		--		0.02
3 x TLE CompFib		48		4.5		45		--		14.4		
4 x Electronics Shop 		336		2.4		4		--		160		
4 x Machine Shop 		560		8		8		--		480		
4 x Lab 			448		3.2		20		--		200		
8 x Sick Bay 			896		6.4		40		--		400		
8 x MaserCom 1K AU  	0.8		4.8		1.44 		8		1.6	
4 x RadioCom 1K AU 	0.4 		40		0.6		800		0.8	
4 x 400 ton Docking Rings	22400		--		4.48		4608		--		
6 x 20 ton Int. Min.Hanger 	3360		--		1.08		384		672		 
60 x 10 ton Int. Min Hangar 	16800  	--		6.6  		2940		3360
2 x 10 ton Launch Tubes 	7000	  	70		1.06  		196		3500	
100 x Scaster Turret (40)	4200		100		90		1000		5000	 
100 x Msl Barb		8400		15		11		1600		7040		 
50 x Ndamper (60k)		6410		600		408		600		6050		 
100 x 170 MJ Lt Laser	4200		9440		95		1000		6443	
Meson screen			10000		500		1000		5000		7500
Fuel Purif (126000/6 hrs)	31500		630		17.64		--		63000		
4 x AEMS 480K km		20		100		40		40		40		 
2 x PEMS 210K km		95		0.5		190		900		100 		
2 x Densitometer  		18		1		2		100		4		
2 x Neutrino Sensor  		10		0.02		6		--		10
4 x EMSJam.480K km 	20		200		80		4		40
EMM				16800		840		4200		8400		8400		
150 x sm. staterooms-troops	2800		0.05		4		--		600
hololink controls - hi integ	966		69		138		--		96.6
partacc 20 MJ			9936.13	5555.56	910.43		56.54		8371.2
87000 MW Fusion		29000		(87000)	5800		--		87000
1 year fuel			8700		--		--		--		609
57 deluxe staterooms		4788		0.09		8.55		--		342
360 staterooms		20160		0.36		36		--		1440
834 workstations 		7588		--		161.6		--		161.6
144 x MFD			2174.4		249.2		2174.4		288		2174.4
				5315.72	(2473.55)	39860.02	7811.46	1268537.8
NOTES:
Has auxiliary bridge
4 MFDs for each battery of ten lasers, battery of five missiles, battery of ten nuke dampers 
and main partacc and ten reserve

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 10:17:56 -0800
From: bri <bri@teleport.com>
Subject: Re:[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

At 10:31 AM 2/9/97 -0500, you wrote:

>        No offense, Jay, but that minnow looks kinda plastic and
>artificially jointed, and those fishhooks awfully sharp.  And sneaking
>things under the wire for "litigation"?
 The 'wire' for litigation is related to the telcomm bill fairyley
recentley passed through congress, i think...
 This *is* legit, and it is most certinley worth a measley 5 mins to send a
email to isp@fcc.gov(i think that's the addy, i'm not 100 on that).
bri <bri@teleport.com>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:51:41 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller

> I was wondering if it was possible for the Travellers mailing list to
> have it so that all the subject headings start with the abbreviated
> mailing list title as the first item in the subject heading.( ie. TRV
> :Jump Drives or TRV : The new CSC.)

Alternatively, you could subscribe to the Digest version, which states what
it is in the subject line....

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:51:37 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: [TML] Re: CCG killed RPG

Led Mirage wrote:

<<Adn we are STILL
relying on ol' George to make SF films that capture our imagination.>>

Not really - I prefer Ridley Scott - Alien, Bladerunner (IMO the best SF
film ever!)

- -Dom Mooney-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:51:48 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: [TML] Re: things.

Another set of books that seem ideal for translation into Traveller
scenarios are the following by Andre Norton:

1) "Sargasso of Space" - traders bid for exclusive trade rights to a
planet, and end up encountering an 'ancients' site, and pirates.

2) "Postmarked the Stars" - traders take a mail run that ends up causing
trouble on a newly settled agricultural planet.

The book in between ("plague ship") covers intermerchant rivalry, but its
about ten years since I read it!  Recommended for Traveller, definately.

- -Dom Mooney-

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:44:18 -0800
From: Kenji Houston <hokido@primenet.com>
Subject: [TML] Shadow's comments on lasers

Should laser still get a penetration bonus? What is the damage
difference between beam and pulse lasers?

IMHO: lasers should a bonus of 10, regradless of their output energy.
Beam lasers should do more damage (7.5*@sqrtE instead of 2.5*@sqrtE).
but have no penetration bonus.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:51:44 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek

Bab5 is the best series I've seen SciFi wise - the ongoing plotline,
effects, character development, and use of things like inertia really make
it for me.

However, in a strange way I'm becoming increasingly attached to Space:Above
and Beyond, which has just started in the UK. I don't think that it'll
displace Bab5 in my affections, but I do try not to miss it! Perhaps the
plotline being a little close to 2300AD caught my imagination!

Trek - I actually prefer Voyager to DSN, STNG! Perhaps I'm just a little
strange, but what I've seen of it so far is okay. I just don't like the
disjointed plotlines and heavy handed moralising. Incidently, has anyone
noticed the similarity in the BITS/CORE scenario "the long way home" to
voyager's basis!?

- ------------------------------
End Transmission!
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:08:01 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] for your disappointment

At 09:46 pm 02/06/97 +0000, Mused said:
>Pardon the crappy spacing, this did look good on the original document.
>I had been hoping to be able to present to the list the new T4 stats for
the AHL, amidst a 
>fanfare of hurrahs. The sad news is the AHL is impossible under Starships
due in almost 
>whole part to the surface area requirement of power plants.

	The power plant surface area requirements were NOT supposed to make it
into Starships. They were added to QSDS as a last-minute idea, so I pasted
them into the first draft of SSDS sent to Don. Almost immediately,
discussion on the GDW-Beta list shot them down, and they were supposed to
be removed.

	IGNORE the surface area requirements in SSDS.

- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:15:50 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: [TML] Starships is broken (surprise, surprise)

Mused <marz@hotstar.net> writes:

>I had been hoping to be able to present to the list the new T4 stats for
>the AHL, amidst a
>fanfare of hurrahs. The sad news is the AHL is impossible under Starships
>due in almost
>whole part to the surface area requirement of power plants.

This is yet another example of where SSDS is not only broken, but downright
illogical. I assume the area requirements for starships are for heat sinks
or radiators. Unfortunately, heat sinks and radiators should not be simply
painted on the radiating surface, as they seem to be in SSDS. Instead, they
are typically designed in sheets or stacks perpendicular to the radiative
surface, so as to have vastly more surface area than is on the outside of
the ships. Take a look at a car radiator or the fins on your pentium to see
what I mean.

However, IMHO, thermal radiators on future spaceships is anachronistic
(sorry, Babylon 5). Since space has no conductive medium, using radiative
cooling requires a huge temperature differential between the radiator and
background environment. Also, these things would make starships stand out
nice and bright on sensors. Rather than a huge area with low (~400K)
temperatures, it will be far more efficient to use small areas with high
temperatures (~ 4000K). So we need a radiator that emits as a 4000K black
body, takes a small space, does not itself operate at high temperatures,
and ideally would radiate in a single direction or cone, so that hostiles
can't detect us. Such radiators are called lasers.

Using a laser for cooling requires the power plant to be hooked up to a
heat exchanger which converts the waste heat into a form useful for pumping
a lasing medium (this can be done chemically or electrically). The laser
focal array takes only a small amount of area and the cold sink is the
background of space, so the temperature differential (and efficiency) is
very high. The laser is aimed somewhere away from hostile detectors (or
toward friendlies, if your ship is in distress). Most ships will not
generate enough waste heat for the beam to be used offensively, and it is
better to have the beam on all the time than to concentrate it into pulses
like laser weapons do. Also, the lasing medium is likely to be totally
different.

Alas, I cannot take credit for this sensible idea. Robert Forward described
this in one of his books (RocheWorld? I can't remember). Look for
"refrigerator lasers". He describes it far more entertainingly than I can.

- -
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:55:18 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

JD
Twolf <<Why would the phone companies care if we went to cable internet
access?  We
will still have phones in our homes, but we will just use them less to call
local ISPs.  The phone companies will still receive the basic service fees
but will provide less service (less use).  If I was a phone company I would
think that was a good deal.>>

From what I've read of some of the telephone industry press, the problem
appears to be that the average call duration used as a network design basis
is approx 5-10 min. Now, in a heavily used exchange, a small number of
Internet using (esp WWW) customers can screw their calcs by taking up
bandwidth and resulting in busy tones for other customers. So the companies
face installing extra bandwidth (which hits their bottom line) or charging
premium rates (which either ups profits to support investment, or
discourages heavy use).


    -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
- -----------------------------------------------
"But everything is still the same; passing the time,
 passing the blame. We carry on in the same old way,
 we'll find out we left it too late one day,
 to say what we meant to say." - Marillion
- -----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:23:29 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs

At 07:10 AM 2/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>The Tech Level that the Jump Drive is built at should affect it's cost, as
>well.  I would think jump-1 drives would become less expensive as the
>current level of technology moves up to jump-2 and jump-3.
>
>Eris
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
The mechanism I have used is to reduce the cost of whatever by 10% for each
tech level above the introduction tech level. Example: item introduced at
tech level 10 costs 100% of listed price, if made at tech level 11, costs
90%, 12 gets you 80%. One reason why lower jump drives are still popular at
higher tech levels is the reduction in cost. 

Same works going the other way (given the techology exists). A tech level 10
item that is feasible at tech level 9 costs 110%.


Garry


 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 14:45:45 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: [TML] for your disappointment

David J. Golden <goldendj@usa.net> wrote:
>
> 	The power plant surface area requirements were NOT supposed to make it
> into Starships. They were added to QSDS as a last-minute idea, so I pasted
> them into the first draft of SSDS sent to Don. Almost immediately,
> discussion on the GDW-Beta list shot them down, and they were supposed to
> be removed.
> 
> 	IGNORE the surface area requirements in SSDS.

Then it's probably a good idea to do the same with QSDS and make 
everyone's life easier. ;-)

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@NASCRAG.ORG

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 13:55:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Genoee posts

Quoth CardSharks@aol.com:
> Meanwhile, I am of a mind to include a sidebar (or more than one) on Geonee
> and Suerrat in upcoming books, just for some background and other details. In
> fact, because the adventure structure calls for a push and a pull, I was
> thinking that Suerrat would become an omni-present push... a rival to the
> Imperium working to establish their own power base.

I recall the old maps of the Ziru Sirka having four or five "clots" of
space shared between bureaux, which I always figured marked the locations
of significant minor races with independent industry (and millions of
potential consumers....) which all the bureaux wanted access to.

The first "clot" was around Vland, for obvious historical and economic
reasons.  One was around Sylea -- which made that planet a perfect spot
both for a minor human race and for a late capital for the Rule of Man
(centrally located, already inhabited and industrialized).  Another was
smack where the Geonee homeworld lies (Massilia?).  A smaller one was over
in Ley Sector or Empty Quarter, IIRC, just rimward of Antares. 

And the last that I recall was over in Ilelish, fairly obviously centered
on the Suerrat worlds (we know they established an interstellar government
using STL generation ships, so they must have had some significant
presence for the Vilani to absorb/exploit).

I'd be very excited to have more details on minor human races in T4: it's
one of the areas I've always wanted more detail on.  And the Suerrat, with
their more arboreal heritage, seem like a wonderfully familiar yet exotic
set of possible foes.  (If they're historical rivals to the early Third
Immperium, it also sets up the Ilelish Revolt later in the canonical
history).

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:55:59 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Starships is broken (surprise, surprise)

At 11:15 am 02/09/97 -0800, Richard Hough said:
>Mused <marz@hotstar.net> writes:
>
>>I had been hoping to be able to present to the list the new T4 stats for
>>the AHL, amidst a
>>fanfare of hurrahs. The sad news is the AHL is impossible under Starships
>>due in almost
>>whole part to the surface area requirement of power plants.
>
>This is yet another example of where SSDS is not only broken, but downright
>illogical. I assume the area requirements for starships are for heat sinks
>or radiators. Unfortunately, heat sinks and radiators should not be simply
>painted on the radiating surface, as they seem to be in SSDS. Instead, they
>are typically designed in sheets or stacks perpendicular to the radiative
>surface, so as to have vastly more surface area than is on the outside of
>the ships. Take a look at a car radiator or the fins on your pentium to see
>what I mean.

	Sorry, those fins only work to increase the area for CONVECTIVE radiators,
which rely on a working fluid circulating around them to help carry the
heat away. 

	In space, you have to rely on RADIATIVE emission of heat, which means that
fins don't work quite as well. You see, the rate of heat emission via
radiation depends on the temperature difference between two objects. If
you've got two fins side by side, much of the area of the fin is only
radiating to the other fin. Since they're at the same temperature, your net
loss of heat is ZERO! The only portion of the fin that's useful is the part
radiating out to deep space (at 3K).

	Incidentally, SSDS was NOT SUPPOSED TO INCLUDE THE AREA! That change
apparently never got made.

- -- Dave Golden                         PGP Public Key available --
   goldendj@usa.net   http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 14:45:16 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: [TML] ISBA part 2

part II
Luwas, Tselfe and Drummond the renowned Navel Architects responded

LTD -- Luwas, Tsefe, and Drummond, Naval Architects -- proudly
announces their decision to join the newly-formed ISBA (Imperium Ship
Builders Association).  Speaking from corporate headquarters at
Jackson Downport in the Houstar system, LTD Chief Financial Officer
Joseph Lockett declared "The ISBA brings together firms and partners
of a variety of heritage and backgrounds, just as the new Imperium
combines many lineage's and races. We look forward to new venues of
cooperation, and new opportunities for healthy competition, under the
auspices of this new organization."

Though Arcadia announced their support they promise more in an up
coming  press release of their own. 

Arcadia Shipyards is please to announce their support of the Imperium
Ship Builders' Association, as a charter member of that professional
association.


FREEDOM STARSHIPS OPENS FOR BUSINESS

Freedom Starships, a design bureau and consulting firm, opened for
business today. 

The last firm to accepted the offer and the newest firm to date in the
Imperium, Founder Ship Works will welcome their new neighbours on Ordun
and hopes  to work with them in the future.

In interviewing Josphanoer Cailfor the project coordinator for Founder
Ship Works the Syledon Corporate News learned that Founders president
T W Reynolds was very impressed with the response.  He chose CmdrX as
the first Corporation because of their similar interested in advancing
the industry and their long standing friendship.  Together they choice
about a dozen other corporations to approach privately.  
 T W Reynolds truly hopes that the ISBA well succeeded and expand to
 included other industries, organization and people involved in the
 creation of starships. 

One of the main goals of the of ISBA Cailfor said will be the settling
of prices that exist with in the industry.  He pointed out that the
Technologies and methods used in different design philosophies have
hampered the Imperium to long creating confusion and inflated prices. 
The philosophy of the Old High Guard design system is still valid but
is just not completely usable with the new SSDS school of thought . 
If a method could be found that could bring the schools together then
the prices of starships should drop while the quality increases.  This
Cailfor  says will be a great improvement over the current system and
if only this is done then the ISBA has succeeded.

In closing Cailfor says that the first organizational meeting of the
ISBA has yet to be held are there is still lots of work to do.  The
members have to set down the constitution, member qualifications,
locate a head quarters, and set more goals.  Yet the first steps on
the long journey to the strengthening the Imperium has begun.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 16:18:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

Hi.

> From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
[snip]

You may have mentioned this, but if you did, I missed it. I think that
the ability (or lack thereof) of a ship to land on a planet should be
mentioned somewhat prominantly in the USP.

IMHO, the lack of this is the worst omission of the current T4 USP.

Just my $0.02.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 16:22:30 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller-digest V1997 #930

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
> I like it. There's a lot of work here, I appreciate the effort.

Thanks!  :-)

> > BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##   
> 
> This looks like it goes with some of the ideas you were proposing over in
> Beta for normalizing weapons from personal to ship.

Yes.  The way I proposed it on the list with the (old) ship-only system
values, but the listing format and the interpretation of the values would be
the same under the (new) compatible system.

> The penetration values might get into triple digits for some weapons,
> mighten they?

Probably not.  I've done some more numbers, and that cube root in Greg's
formula makes the curve REALLY steep as the energy level rises.  I ran the
numbers for a 68,000Mj weapon, and the penetration is only about 65; it's
not likely to be possible to build a ship-mounted weapon that hits 99.

So far the only unfortunate thing about the conversion is that it puts most
of the useful ship-scale weapons into penetration value between 30 and 50.
It also tends to make ship combat more 'deadly' to small civilian ships
(which are likely to have armor values from 15 to 25), but not unacceptably
so, in my opinion.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #931
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 9 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 932



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Re: THUDDD USD
Re: [TML] Re: Sandcasters
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers
Subject: Re:[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #931
[TML] Anybody compiled wildstar's ANSWERS?
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES (a bit long)
[TML] Tractor/Repulser Tables
[TML] The THUDDD is off! (Far Trader won)
[TML] [Traveller Answer] PP Surface Area
[TML] Lasers and Streamlining

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:18:15 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDDD USD

>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:31:53 -0500
>From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
>Subject: [TML] Updated THUDDD USD

With apologies to Wildstar...

>        Ok people... I think that Wildstar's improved USD is precisely
>that, so let's use that instead.  I'll repost the full WUSD (:>) post
                                                        ^^^^

would that be pronounced wussed?  :)

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 17:27:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Sandcasters

Hi.

> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

> In mail you write:

>> The problem with this interpretation is that it just won't work. If sand

Hmm. Poor choice of words on my part. "Won't work" is too strong. "Not 
practical" is more what I was thinking.

> Slight problem. You suffer from a common misconception regarding *how*
> weapons grade lasers cause damage.

Another poor choice of words on my part. I lumped, in all my previous,
posts, all forms of energy absorption into the structure of a material
(burning, boiling, exploding, deforming) into the term "ablation." While
this may be correct according to Webster, "ablation" has a technical
meaning in space jargon which may not be consistent with my use of the
word. My apologies. Unfortunately, I cannot think of a better word to
describe this class of events, so I'll continue to use "ablation", but
I'll put it in quotes.

> Refractory coatings. These are the exact opposite of ablative coatings.
> They take a *lot* of energy to vaporize. The downside is that most are
> brittle ceramics and make lousy armor. Worse, it was discovered that
> many (possibly all) ceramics have a weakness. Hit them with a
> surprisingly *low* amount of laser energy at the right frequency and
> they crumble. This was first discovered when the Air Force started
> working on lasers vs missiles. They discovered that a one *kilowatt*
> beam from the laser they were using shattered a standard missile
> nosecone. Pure luck that they were using the right sort of laser... :-)
> Even if refractory coatings "work" it just means that the layer that
> explodes is thinner. You still get the same amount of energy deposited
> via the shockwave.

Way cool. I never heard of these.

> "Sand" is just a variant on spaced armor. No matter what, the beam is
> going to deposit *some* energy in whatever it hits. Sand has a far more
> perfect reflecting surface than your ship can maintain. And when the
> energy it can't reflect or refract vaporizes it, the "blast" only
> affects the individual particles, not the ship (unless you didn't have
> enough sand in the way).

My strong suspicion is that sand will disperse far more energy due to
refraction than it will due to reflection or ablation. 

> I go for all the help I can get, which is why *I* would design sand to
> have the optimum mix of the properties I listed the other day. The
> "crystals" may not reflect or refract *much of the energy, but every
> little bit helps.

I agree that every little bit helps. And I agree that sand will reflect
and ablate A LITTLE BIT of laser light. But I think it will refract a /lot/
more. (And what's wrong with refraction anyway? Is its insult to canon
THAT severe?)

I also think that, if you really want "ablation" and reflection instead
of refraction and diffraction, then hull armor will serve you much
better than sand ever will. For reflection, hull armor will give you
more cross section per unit of mass than sand can, and for "ablation",
it will give you a more economical stopping power (g/cm^2) than sand.

Also, I have no idea (at TL13+), how reflective sand might work against
X-ray lasers. I think you may have to rely on refraction for X-rays.

Just some more fuel for the flames.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:23:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

 
> I'd like to propose a new format for the USP, if I may.  This is an
> expansion and extension of the current USP, to get a lot of the missing
> details back into the ship description.

Hey, I liked the original idea of a HG-like one way back when... :-)

> Fuel should be listed in DISPLACEMENT TONS!  If scoops or refining
> capability is present, list the capacity (in dtons scooped per hour, or
> dtons refined per hour), like "Scoop 150, Refine 10" or "S 150, R 10".

Yes.  All such values sould be consistant.

> ("w/") simply means "with".  The next number ("20") is the number of
> missiles available.  The text ("Guided DetLaser") is the name of the missile,
> and gives the guidance type.  The next group ("1d6/2") gives the number
> of hits (rolls on the damage table) and penetration of the missile (current
> detonation-laser missiles have 1d6 hits, while all other types do 1 hit). 
> The last group ("6G12") gives the performance of the missile: this missle
> can make 6Gs acelleration, and has enough fuel for a total of 12G-turns
> (generally 6Gs for 2 turns).

I wish we had a way of doing addiitive damage some how so that huge
missile batteries (400 50 ton bays full or some-such) could be
resolved in an easier fashion.  TCS statistical resolution is an
option, but we might be able to assume that a group of missiles,
working in concert, might do more damage (or hit more often) than
the sum of all single missiles.  The old swarm of missiles
"thinking" together that has been suggested from time to time.  This
would also provide a reason for grouping missiles in larger
batteries instead of always treating them as single units.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 17:38:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

Hi.

Sorry Twolf, but I gotta side with Mr. Hale on this. I've seen similar
announcements before, and they all turned out to be canards. Would it be
too obnoxious of me to insist on seeing a verifiable reference?

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 14:46:05 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

At 08:37 PM 2/8/97 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:

>>>I have been working on such a device, I was going to post them as the
>> official "Wrong 
>>>Trousers" stats
>>>
>> I am so happy I get to host The Silly Era.. sub-orbital pogo sticks, Wallis
>> and Grommit tech..
>
>I think the official book of The Silly Era should be "Star Smashers of
>the Galaxy Rangers". I forget the author. Probably Harry Harrison.

Gee, Leonard.. whatever gave you the idea that *I* would own three copies of
that.. (one to read, two to loan out..

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:05:20 +0001
From: "Nick Meredith" <nickm@discover.co.uk>
Subject: Subject: Re:[TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

I'm sure this is fascinating for all American readers of the list.

For all of us in the rest of the world who pay on a time basis already 
it is just a waste of bandwidth - oh and it costs us money to read 
it too (Ok - not dollars - but still real money)..

Please keep it off the list - I'm sure there are plenty of newsgroups 
and lists where you can discuss it in private.
- -- 
Cheers
Nick Meredith - nickm@discover.co.uk - Coventry, UK

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 14:59:44 -0800
From: David Bullock <dbullock@cris.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #931

I'm feeling pretty lucky at the moment, Time Warner (Southwestern Cable)
services the area I live in (San Diego's North County).  TW rolled out
their cable-modem internet service last Friday and have been swamped with
orders.

I got up early this morning and phoned in my order - in two weeks I'll have
a 24/7 dedicated connection with approximately a 768k/sec upload speed and
a 4mb/sec download speed.  The reason it's that slow is my ISA bus.

But nevertheless, I'll resist the temptation to make the IG site
cable-modem oriented - and keep it as fast loading as possible <grin>.

Dave

>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:55:18 +0000
>From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
>Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
>
>From what I've read of some of the telephone industry press, the problem
>appears to be that the average call duration used as a network design basis
>is approx 5-10 min. Now, in a heavily used exchange, a small number of
>Internet using (esp WWW) customers can screw their calcs by taking up
>bandwidth and resulting in busy tones for other customers. So the companies
>face installing extra bandwidth (which hits their bottom line) or charging
>premium rates (which either ups profits to support investment, or
>discourages heavy use).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:12:41 +0900
From: Ichiro OHTA <ichiohta@os.gulf.or.jp>
Subject: [TML] Anybody compiled wildstar's ANSWERS?

Hi, folks.

     Now I'm compiling the Wildstar's TRAVELLER ANSWERs posted to TML,
so that I and my players can refer to them. Has anybody else compiled
a summary or something yet?

Regards.

- --
Ichiro

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 18:15:49 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

J.D. Burdick: 

>The ISP numbers would become toll number just like 1-900.  Easy to do 
>this.  T-Online the German Phone company does it now.

   Technically possible yes, but the fact is that *all* toll numbers in
the US are 1-900 (1-800 and 1-888 can be indirect toll, if you are asked
for a credit card number, then you are charged per minute).  The phone
companies in the US like to keep things seperated that way (less
confusing to customers).

>Why would the phone companies care if we went to cable internet access?

1) Many of them are or are in the process of becoming, ISPs themselves. 
This is a major revenue growth area and no one wants to be completely
shut out of it if they think they have a chance at competing.

2) For all the additional money the phone companies have to spend on
extra equipment to carry the load, the fact is that they are making big
bucks (more than they are spending out) from all of the customers that
get additional phone lines installed into their homes (something I fear
I'll have to do if my modem useage continues to increase).  Those phone
lines will go away if customers start switching to cable-based ISPs, and
result in a net decrease in revenue.

   Welcome to the aftermath of the TelCom Act.  We will now join the
rest of our international Travellers already in progress....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 18:12:02 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES (a bit long)

Dom Mooney writes: 

>From what I've read of some of the telephone industry press, the 
>problem appears to be that the average call duration used as a network 
>design basis is approx 5-10 min. Now, in a heavily used exchange, a 
>small number of Internet using (esp WWW) customers can screw their 
>calcs by taking up bandwidth and resulting in busy tones for other 
>customers. So the companies face installing extra bandwidth (which hits
>their bottom line) or charging premium rates (which either ups profits 
>to support investment, or discourages heavy use).

  Here's a story I stumbled across on CNNfn that is related to this
discussion:

Speeding Internet traffic: Coalition says existing technology can be
better used for faster access

January 23, 1997: 3:49 p.m. ET
 
WASHINGTON (CNNfn) - A group of technology experts say demand for
Internet access is not clogging local phone networks. That claim refutes
the position held by regional Bell operating companies. Contrary to
claims by the RBOCs, the Internet Access Coalition said the nation's
existing telephone network is capable of handling the increased calling
volume generated by data communications, including Internet traffic.

   "Our findings clearly show that claims of phone network congestion
resulting from Internet traffic and predictions of a 'meltdown' are
greatly exaggerated," said Lee Selwyn, study author and president of
Economics and Technology Inc. ETI did the study for IAC.

   Selwyn maintains that data communications poses no significant threat
to the effectiveness of the network. Also, the ETI said increased data
traffic has produced additional revenue for local exchange carriers that
far exceed the costs of accommodating the increased loads.

   IAC is composed of technology associations and technology companies
including America Online Inc., Apple Computer Inc., Compaq Computer
Corp., CompuServe Inc., Digital Computer and others. It wants a new
network using more data-friendly technology to be deployed. 

   "We intend to work closely with the FCC and policy makers in Congress
and in the administration to ensure that this country continues to
support the growth and health of our information society," said IAC
steering committee Chairman Paul Misener said.

- -30-

   FYI: The Web site for the Alliance for Public Technology is: 
http://apt.org/apt/aptconf.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 15:29:51 -0800
From: Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: [TML] Tractor/Repulser Tables

Hi just a quick question. In Starship's there is a brief mention
to a tractor/repulser table. Where is it? We can't seem to find
it.
Thanks in advance
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:27:33 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] The THUDDD is off! (Far Trader won)

        OK... it's Sunday at 5:30, the voting has slowed to a trickle over
the past 36 hours, and I've got a buncha CV's to stuff into envelopes, so
I'm going to close the polls on the first THUDDD's ship selection stage and
open the design phase.  As noted in the title, the Far Trader won by three
votes.  Methinks that Paul, once he takes over after this one, ought to
hold the second THUDDD on the Merc Cruiser.


        So, here's what happens next:  you read the design spec, put on
your psionic augumentation headgear, get seriously inspired, and design
something in either QSDS (QSDS'ers don't forget to multiply J-drive cost by
14!) or SSDS to meet it.  Over the next week, until Sunday 16 February,
mail them in to me at the above address.  I'll then post all the designs to
the list with judging instructions.  All TML'ers may vote, and return
results and comments to me via email, with cc's going to Paul Walker.  On
Sunday 23 February, Paul and I will independently tally up the votes,
figure out who won, and award the biscuit (courtesy of X-TEK, let us not
forget).

        Then Paul gets to take over and I retire.



The voting (which reads like a real TML who's who) went as follows:


        Far Trader: 16 votes: Douglas McCorison, Mark Clark, J.D. Burdick,
Glenn Hoppe, Tim Reynolds, Rob Beck, Andrew Vallance, Timothy Collinson,
Colin Hollands, Doug Berry, Mark Jones, John Snead, Peter Newman, Volker
Greimann, Ross Coburn, Rob Prior (and myself, but I didn't count my own
vote).


        Merc Cruiser: 13 votes: Ethan Henry, Guy Garnett, Commander X, Neil
Simpson, Rich Ostorero, Eamon Patrick Waters, Allen Shock, John P. Raynor,
Arthur Murphy, Bruce Johnson, Mused, Brian A. Howard, Peter J. Miller.


        Corsair: 2 votes: Paul Walker, SD Mooney.


        Patrol Cruiser: 2 votes: David Reed, Andrew Boulton.


        Heavy Fighter:1 vote: Lewis Roberts.


Mission Spec:  Near so far as I can tell, a Far Trader must:

a) be capable of Jump-2 or higher,

b) be commercially viable,

c) affordable by non-megacorp purchasers, and

d) since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max.

        Given that part of the aim behind the THUDDD is to produce some
innovative designs, I don't think that we should actually have any other
mission requirements.  THUDDDers may get as innovative as they bloody well
like, but let's all bear in mind that you'll be judged by your peers on
mission specs b) and c)...

        If enough people feel strongly about it, we could have two separate
competitions going on; one for a "classic" 200td Jump-2 Maneuver-1 Far
Trader, and an "anything goes" open competition.  Let me know in email over
the course of the week and we'll see.


Submission Rules (please follow these; it'll make life easier for your
fellow TMLers when they're judging your entry) :

1) Submissions must follow Wildstar's improved USD format (his post on it
is quoted below).

2) Submissions are to be mailed both to myself <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
and Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>.

3) Descriptive text is welcomed, indeed encouraged, but is to be put in
*BELOW* the USD as per Wildstar's instructions.

4) QSDS designers take heed; all those failing to multiply J-drive costs by
14 in their final USD will be subject to an unpaid internship at the
Famille Spofulam Product Safety Testing Facility.  This will immediately
void any life insurance policies you might own.

5) SSDS life support requirements should, IIRC, be expressed in Td (but are
mistakenly labelled as being in M^3); so multiply the number you get by 14
to compensate, or else you'll wind up alpha-testing the Famille Spofulam
Educational Toys Robomatic(tm) Butcher Knife & Chainsaw Juggling Tutor with
your QSDS buddies.

6) Power plant radiator surface area requirements may be disregarded in
both design systems.

7) I'm tired and can't think of anything else, so if it becomes apparent
that more rules (boo hiss) are needed, I reserve the right to make'em up as
needed.



        Here's Wildstar's Improved USD post:



Please read over this, and let me know what you think.


Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System)

Tons: ### Std (Config)    Volume: ###### m^3           Cost: #### MCr
Crew: ####                High/Mid Pass: ####          Low: ##
Cargo: ## Std             Controls: Type (Bridge)      TL: ##

## Size                               ## Jump Drive (## Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      ## Maneuver (Type, ## Mw)
##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##    ## Power Plant (#x ##Mw)
##x BatteryName (##) ##/##            ## Fuel (Scoop ##, Refine ##)
 w/ ## MissileName #/# #G##           ## Meson Screen (## Mw)
                                      ## Sandcasters (#### Cans)
##x LaunchFacility (Craft)            ## Nuclear Damper
##x HangarFacility (Craft)            A# P# J# Sensors (# Stealth/Cloak)
                                      ## Armor, ## Structure

Crew Detail: ## Command, ## Sensors, ## Gunners, ## Engineer, ## Steward
             ## Troops, etc as needed ...

Notes: Explanations and details of the above as needed.

Additional comments and description of the ship may follow in additional
paragraphs.   USPs and comments for carried craft follow.


Thoughts on USPs in general:
I think the description and notes are much better at the end, rather than at
the top (above the name or class).  This allows the start of an entry to be
visually distinctive - much easier for the referee to locate when he or she
needs the information in a hurry.

Generally, a USP will be for either a single ship (in which case the ship
name should appear in the title), or for an entire class (in which the class
name should appear instead of the ship name).  For example, "Empress Marava
Free Trader" (a single ship), or "Beowulf-class Free Trader" (a class).

Particularly for designs that will be shared with others, the design system
used (QSDS, SSDS, or something else) should be noted.  It's convenient to
put it up in the title.

This is just a personal thing, but I prefer the units to appear after the
number (just like they taught me in Engineering school), instead of before
it.  I'll concede that the other way is easier for spreadsheets, though.
It's no big deal to me either way.

You can consider "Std" to stand for "Standard Tons Displacement".  ;-)

IF the ship has a bridge, you should note "(Bridge)" after the controls.
Advanced designs with things like CIC (Combat Information Center), Fighter
Control Bridge, Fire Control Bridge, or Flag Bridge should mention them on
the controls, or (if there isn't room), in the notes.

I'm undecided on the way of formatting the second half of the entry.  The
original (T4) USP had them as "## Rating", but many people seem to prefer
"Rating: ##".  I don't particularly care, but think that the first MIGHT be
easier to read quickly.

The Jump drive should be rated in parsecs, and include the number of dTons
of fuel per parsec jumped (this is easy to figure, but is nice to add, since
for some designs the ship may have fuel for more than one jump).

Maneuver drive should also specify what type of drive (Fusion Rocket,
HEPlaR, T-Plate) it is.  If the ship does NOT have Contra-Grav, this should
also be noted in the maneuver drive line (as "No CG").  The default
assumption is that most or all ships in Traveller have contra-grav, since it
makes landings and takeoffs much easier and safer.

Knowing the output of the power plant in Mw is a nice thing to have; for
QSDS designs, it's helpful to put something like "2x100Mw" or "100Mw+50Mw".

Fuel should be listed in DISPLACEMENT TONS!  If scoops or refining
capability is present, list the capacity (in dtons scooped per hour, or
dtons refined per hour), like "Scoop 150, Refine 10" or "S 150, R 10".

Sandcaster rating should include the total number of cans available.

Sensor ratings should include a note about stealth or masking (if
installed).  For future expandability, this entry should be "-1 Stealth" or
"-3 Masking" (currently the only available types are stealth for -1DM or
masking for -3DM, but others may be possible in the future).

I strongly recommend adding the crew detail, no matter what format you
use for your USPs.  Knowing the crew detail helps a LOT when trying to
decide if the ship is suitable for a given party.


Battery listings.  Yes, well.  I'm advocating a new format of the battery
listing, that also does away with the fire-control rating.  It's a bit
different than the current one, so bear with me while I explain:

This is the format for a laser, particle acellerator, or meson gun battery:
##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##
Example:
 1x Laser Carronade (+4) 1/4-1-1-0

The first number ("1x") is the number of such batteries installed; on a
large ship, you could easily fill the page by listing all 30 or so laser
batteries individually.  The text ("Laser Carronade") describes the weapon
system.  The number in parentheses is the total bonus (for fire-control,
rate of fire, or other factors) for this battery.  For current design
systems, just put the appropriate Fire Control Rating here, since that's the
only bonus that applies.  This will let you mix "civilian" fire-control
rating 0 weapons with "military" weapons on the same ship.  The last 5
numbers are the hits and penetration of the weapon; the first number (in
front of the slash) is the number of hits.  This is the number of rolls on
the damage tables if the weapon hits.  For all current lasers, the damage
is 1, and for all current particle acellerators and meson guns, it's 2.  The
last 4 numbers are the penetration at each range.  Please use dashes to
separate these numbers, not slashes, even with the old USP format!

This is the format for a missile battery:
##x BatteryName (##) ##/##
w/ ##/##x MissileName #/# #G##
Example:
 1x Missile Barbette (+4) 20/20
 w/ 20 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12

The "1x", text, and fire-control bonus mean the same as above.  The last two
numbers on the first line ("20/20") refer to the number of missiles that can
be launched by the battery in one turn, and the number that can be guided
simultaneously.  This battery (which has 4 turrets and 5 MFDs), has 20
launch tubes, and can guide 20 missiles at once.

The second line specifies the type of missiles available (if a battery is
loaded with multiple types, each type needs its own line.  The first symbol
("w/") simply means "with".  The next number ("20") is the number of
missiles available.  The text ("Guided DetLaser") is the name of the missile,
and gives the guidance type.  The next group ("1d6/2") gives the number
of hits (rolls on the damage table) and penetration of the missile (current
detonation-laser missiles have 1d6 hits, while all other types do 1 hit).
The last group ("6G12") gives the performance of the missile: this missle
can make 6Gs acelleration, and has enough fuel for a total of 12G-turns
(generally 6Gs for 2 turns).


Finally, I've also proposed a way to detail the ship's facilities and
carried craft.  Each line specifies the number of such facilities installed,
names them, and names or describes the craft carried.  Here are some
examples:

 1x Launch Port (50-ton fighter)
 2x Launch Tube (50-ton Fighter)
24x Spacious Hangar (50-ton Fighter)

This describes a ship (a carrier, perhaps) that has a single launch port for
use when the dual launch tubes are blocked or inoperable, and hangars for
24 50-ton fighters.

A subsidized Merchant might well be listed with:

 1x Streamlined Grapple (20-ton Boat)




        Get to it, people!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 18:41:15 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] [Traveller Answer] PP Surface Area

Although several people (including Dave Golden, author of SSDS) have posted
this, I thought I'd follow-up with an official Traveller Answer on the
subject.

Power Plant surface area is BROKEN in both QSDS and SSDS.  It was added to
the systems late, and last-minute playtesting showed us that it was a bad
idea.  It was supposed to have been removed from both QSDS and SSDS before
they were printed, but this correction didn't make it.

To repeat:
IGNORE power-plant surface area requirements in BOTH QSDS and SSDS.


Power plant surface area requirements for vehicles and spacecraft designed
with the vehicle design system (published in the _Central Supply Catalog_)
remain, however.


Comments and opinions:
Note that while the power plant surface area doesn't work in Traveller
from a game-design standpoint (it invalidates large starships), from
the standpoint of real-world physics, it's required: every megawatt of
power generated onboard a ship has to leave somehow, or else the occupants
of the ship are going to get cooked.

In space, the only way to get rid of heat is to radiate it overboard, and
this is a fuction of how hot we can make the radiators (since we can't do
anything about the temperature of space), and how much of the hull's area
we can devote to them.  Although a pair of cooling wings would help,
closely-spaced "fins" like on the heat-sink of a computer chip only work
in an atmosphere.

In the Naval Architect's Handbook, it's likely that some consideration will
be given to this entire question, but for now, for SSDS and QSDS, we can
ignore it, and assume that whatever solution the Imperium's engineers come
up with, it doesn't require very much surface area.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 19:07:52 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Lasers and Streamlining

Kenji Houston <hokido@primenet.com> wrote:
> Should laser still get a penetration bonus?

Under the current T4 space combat system, lasers don't get a penetration
bonus.  I'm currently working on a new system that more accurately reflects
the capabilities of lasers (and also recociles the vehicle/personal and
starship combat scales).

> What is the damage difference between beam and pulse lasers?

In T4 (like in T:TNE before it), there are no "beam" lasers; all lasers are
pulsed, with rates of fire between 10 and 800 pulses per combat turn.

Given the ranges involved in space combat, and the strength of the average
starship's hull, a continous-beam laser would either have to be held on the
target an unacceptably long time, or would require an unacceptably high
amount of energy input.

It's a better idea to store up the power and fire pulses every few seconds
that are intense enough to damage the target if a single pulse hits.



Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu> wrote:
> You may have mentioned this, but if you did, I missed it. I think that
> the ability (or lack thereof) of a ship to land on a planet should be
> mentioned somewhat prominantly in the USP.

That's covered by the configuration.  The ship's configuration; and in
particular the part where it says "unstreamlined" (usually "USL"),
"streamlined" ("SL"), "airframe" ("AF"), or "planetoid".  This is NOT in the
current T4 USP, but is definitely included in every "enhaced" USP that's
been proposed.

The streamlining affects a ship's ability to land on a planet thusly:

Planetoid hulls may NOT land on any planet safely.  Attempting to do so will
probably destroy the hull.  Planetoids may not skim for fuel.

Unstreamlined hulls may not safely land on any world with an atmosphere
denser than "trace".  They may land on vacuum worlds ("trace" or thinner) if
they are equipped with Contra-Grav units, or have maneuver drives with
higher acelleration than the planet's surface gravity.  Unstreamlined hulls
may not skim for fuel.
Streamlined hulls may skim for fuel, and may land on any world (regardless
of atmosphere), if the ship is equipped with Contra-Grav.  Streamlined ships
that are not equipped with Contra-Grav may only land on worlds where the
drive's accelleration exceeds the local surface gravity.

Airframe hulls may skim for fuel, and may land on any world with an
atmosphere of "thin" (or more dense), regardless of the ship's Contra-Grav
or maneuver accelleration.  IF the ship is equipped with Contra-Grav or a
maneuver drive with more accelleration than the surface gravity, airframe
hulls may land on any world regardless of atmosphere.

Finally, ships which do NOT have contra-grav face greater risks when
skimming for fuel.  The skimming procedure is no harder without contra-grav,
but the consequences of failure are more severe (frequently resulting in the
loss of the ship).  Airframe hulls can at least partially compensate, since
they offer aerodynamic control during the run through the gas giant's
atmosphere.

The referee should implement task rolls for the pilot whenever a ship
attempts an unsafe maneuver, and should determine the subsequent events
based on the outcome of the task.

> IMHO, the lack of this is the worst omission of the current T4 USP.

Will the addition of the configuration, along with the above information,
help?


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #932
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 9 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 933



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[none]
[TML] Arcadia Shipyards Joins ISBA
[TML] Re: Traveller Auction: Update #7
[TML] Re: Jump drive costs
[TML] Re: THUDDD voting so far...
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Character Gen Procedure II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:16:26 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: [none]

David J. Golden <goldendj@usa.net> writes:

>        Sorry, those fins only work to increase the area for CONVECTIVE
>radiators,
>which rely on a working fluid circulating around them to help carry the
>heat away.

Correct, which I why I explicitly stated "radiative surface"

>[SNIP] radiation depends on the temperature difference between two objects. If
>you've got two fins side by side, much of the area of the fin is only
>radiating to the other fin. Since they're at the same temperature, your net
> [SNIP]

OK, imagine these are cross sections of starships though the thermal radiators:

Ship using surface area for radiator:
    ____
   |    | <- Here are radiators on surface of ship
   |    |
   ------

Ship using radiative fins for radiator:

        |
        |
        | <- Here are radiators on fins.
        |
        |    Notice they don't use the ship's
        |    surface area, and they don't
    ____{    "radiate into each other"?
   |    |
   |    |
   -----{
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |

>        Incidentally, SSDS was NOT SUPPOSED TO INCLUDE THE AREA! That change
>apparently never got made.

If this means the entire notion of surface area for power plants is gone,
then good.

- -
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 19:37:57 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Arcadia Shipyards Joins ISBA

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Arcadia Shipyards Joins the Imperium Ship Builders' Association

Arcadia Shipyards is please to announce their support of the Imperium Ship
Builders' Association, as a charter member of that professional association.

"The Imperium Ship Builders' Association will bring a new level of quality
and professionalism to the starship construction business" said Kodai
L. Tadashi, President of Arcadia Shipyards.  "Arcadia Shipyards supports
the Association wholeheartedly, and our staff will take the opportunity
to continue to build professional relationships with their counterparts
at other firms."

Mr. Tadashi confirmed reports that Arcadia Chief Test Pilot Billy-Joe "BJ"
Wheeler lifted off of Matsumoto downport this morning in the company's
research starship (unnamed, but known universally as "The 999" for it's
distinctive registry number), with Dr. Tochiro Miyazaki, Arcadia's Chief
Designer, Gzoe Zanore, the company's Chief Financial Officer, and
several members of the staff for a high-level meeting at an undisclosed
location.  Mr. Tadashi refused due to "the sensitive nature of the
negotiations" to elaborate on the location or other attendees of the IBSA
organizational meeting.

Arcadia Shipyards is a growing starship and spacecraft construction firm,
with facilities on the major worlds of the Arcadia Cluster.  The company's
headquarters are located adjacent to their main starship construction yard,
at Matsumoto downport.  The company has extensive orbital yards, located in
Space Stations X and XI in the Matsumoto Orbital Complex.  Arcadia is
best-known for their high degree of vertical integration, from design to
component production through final assemby and certification testing.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   "Dreams do not vanish, so long as people do
                                    not abandon them."  --- Phantom F. Harlock

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 17:53:58 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Auction: Update #7

 
Getting down to the wire - only three days left! :)\

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

*new addition*
"Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Book 1 - Characters and Combat" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 2 - Starships" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 3 - Worlds and Adventures" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Book 4 - Mercenary" (GDW)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 52. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium" (GDW)
 Circa: 1979. Pages: 43. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca

*new addition*
"Tarsus - World Beyond the Frontier" (GDW)
 Circa: 1983. Condition: Excellent. (Boxed Module)
 Bid: $10.00 sdollar@goodnet.com

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $15.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $10.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: "Fleet Escort Lisiani")
 Bid: $5.00  beck@mail.all-mail.net

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #26" (GDW)
 Circa:1986. Pages:48. Condition:Good.(Article:"Cargo-Merchant Prince Variant")
 Bid: $5.00 scarabl@pacbell.net 

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #27" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. ( **Droyne/Grandfather Issue** )
 Bid: $5 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #28" (GDW)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Across the Imperium)
 Bid: $5.00 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #29" (GDW)
 Circa:1987. Pages:48. Condition:Good. (**Traveller Tenth Anniversary Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca


MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #56" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition. (**Hard Times Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 sdollar@goodnet.com

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #57" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition: Good. (Article: "Shellgame")
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #64" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 88. Condition: Good. (**Fall of the Imperium Issue**)
 Bid:

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $8.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk


TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

*new addition*
"Traveller Chronicle Magazine #10" (Knight)
 Circa:1996. Pages:56. Condition:Excellent. (**Children of Earth - part #1**)
 Bid: $4.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

*new addition*
"Not in Our Stars" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 222. Condition: Excellent. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $8.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Voyage of the Planetslayer" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 302. Condition: Fine. (Travller Inspired Novel - 2 of 3)
 Bid: $9.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Revolt and Rebirth" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 329. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel - 3 of 3)
 Bid: $9.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

*new addition*
"Voyages SF Magazine #15" (King)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 34. Condition: Fine. (Article: "Recruiting for Paradise")
 Bid: $4.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $6.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Sea of Death" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 394. Condition: Fine. (Novel)
 Bid: $2.00 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Night Arrant" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 398. Condition: Fine. (Novel - Autographed by Gary)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Come Endless Darkness" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 379. Condition: Good. (Novel)
 Bid: $2.00 dbertil@dtek.chalmers.se
- -----

That's it for the present. I will post updates every day or so.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 02:07:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: Jump drive costs

Derek Wildstar writes:
>It's an error in QSDS.  :-(
> 
>The price [of jump drives] is low by a factor of 14; 

Funny, I could have sworn the price was MCr0.4 per ton, not MCr0.29. I must
have made a mistake there.

>For what it's worth, its correct in SSDS and FF&S; it'll be fixed in the
>next version of QSDS as well.

Well, I'm glad to know it. I would have been even more pleased to have known
it earlier. Now I have to go through several dozen ship designs and change all
my calculations. Ah, well...

>One of the reasons for trying to make QSDS 2.0 a significantly better
>product than 1.x is to entice people to switch, even though the 1.x
>designs will be cheaper.

That one went right by me. Are you going to give people a choice? Surely you
don't mean to have two rival ship design systems that produce radically
different prices?!? Why not just include it in the T4 errata right away?

>>Or like the bridge with a minimum size of 20 T that 
>>is suddenly no longer necessary in starships, which means that Jump-5 and
>>Jump-6 X-boats become practical the moment the proper TL is reached.
> 
>It was a 10-ton bridge, 

I'm 98% sure that it was 20 T. 2% of the ship, but minimum 20 T. A 1000 T
ship was the smallest ship not to have a proportionally oversized bridge.
Though it's been some time since I designed CT ships, so I may be wrong.
I was wrong about the 40% discount for multiple ships; it's only 20% in
both _Book 2_, _High Guard_, and _TCS_. (What is 20% in one and 40% in
the other is the reduction in production time; it's 20% in _High Guard_
but 40% in _TCS_).

>and that one wasn't my fault, and besides, there's a
>good political reason for keeping x-boats limited to j-4 and its really not
>my fault.  ;-)

I never said it was your fault; I do say the political reasons are a crock,
but we've had that discussion already. (Has that one been added to the FAQ?)

Anyway, your fault or not, do you happen to know why the mandatory bridge was 
dropped? Did the gain justify making 100 T jump-6 ships possible and thereby 
messing up the background?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:55:32 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDDD voting so far...

My vote is definitely with the Merc Cruiser.

Eric

- ----------
> From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: THUDDD voting so far...
> Date: Thursday, February 06, 1997 7:55 PM
> 
> 
> 
> All right... here's where we stand on ship class so far:
> 
> 
> Merc Cruiser: 4     Far Trader: 1     Corsair: 2     Heavy Fighter: 1
> Patrol Cruiser: 1
> 
> Note that classes are not limited; feel free to star voting for a 5,000
td
> tanker if y'all like...
> 
>         Voting closes on Sunday 9 February 1997, at which point we either
> debate a mission requirement or go directly to the design phase,
depending
> on the ship we pick.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 17:37:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

On 02/09/97 at 08:52 AM,  "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com> said:

> > The answer is that it's impossible unless they start charging
> > for all phone usage above a certain number of minutes (figuring that
> > heavy users are typically computer geeks cruising the Internet), or if
> > they force Internet service providers to use certain exchanges within
> > the calling area--I don't know that this is legal.

I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding of what's going on:

The FCC, exempted ISP's, temporarily, from a special Access Fee back in the
80's, that goes to the local phone companies (RBOCs) to offset their costs
of providing (and keeping low charges for) local service.  The reason ISP's
were exempted was to encourage the
development of alternative telecommunication networks, specifically the
internet.  Long-distance carriers have been paying an Access Fee all along.

Recently, the RBOC's asked the FCC to revisit their decision on ISP's not
paying the Access Fee. They argue that the decision was a temporary one and
was meant to encourage growth, and now years later that growth has occurred
so it's only fair for ISP's to contribute to the load they are placing on
the local telecommunication
infrastructure.  The FCC is considering this request right now, and they
are soliciting comments from interested parties.  Sometime in March they
will decide whether to hold hearings on the subject, make a change, or
leave things as they are.

The Access Fee, if it is imposed, would be on the ISP's not the individual
callers.  The ISP's would have to pay something like 60 to 90 cents / hour
/ line..who this goes to, I'm not sure, but
eventually it is supposed to end up in the RBOC's pocket.  The RBOC would
use this money to improve local infrastructure and offset costs of
business.  Everyone believes the ISP's will pass the access fee on to the
users, though.  This could mean higher flat rates, or even the end of the
flat rate.

ISP's argue that the internet is still growing, and should continue to
receive an exemption from paying the fee.  They suggest the RBOCs have as
an ulterior motive, the goal of making it harder for ISP's to compete with
them as them enter the internet service business themselves.  

The RBOCs argue that the internet has reached "critical mass" and doesn't
need government assistance anymore.  They say that use of phone lines for
data purposes puts severe strain on the sort of systems they have in place. 
The current systems are optimized for short voice communications where
fewer lines are required, but frequent switching is.  They aren't optimized
for many long (or continuous) connections, and their lines are being
swamped.  The need to upgrade their systems is obvious, and they say they
*are* proceeding, but the costs of these upgrades should be paid for by
those who will most benefit from them..the ISP's and their customers.

I *think* that's about it, and I've tried to fairly present both side's
arguments.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 16:30:12 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Character Gen Procedure II

Well, nobody objected to my first posts, so I'll continue.  

I can't say I much like the Advanced Education procedure, as it appears in
the book.  First of all, I think Admission and
Perseverance should use T4 Tasks.  Next, I don't like the limited skills
available.  Finally, have you noticed that the Military and Naval Academies
are *exactly* the same?

IAC, here's the procedure as it appears in the book layed out in a step by
step sequence.

Eris


suggested page break 

III.  ADVANCED EDUCATION   Choose an Advanced Education option OR
                           skip ahead to IV.

    A.  COLLEGE (4 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  EDUCATION >= 4
        
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   INT >= 8, +1
                                       SOC >= 9, +1
                                       EDU >= 9, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 8, +1
                                       INT >= 8, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 7 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 4 times on the College
                                 Academic Skills Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1D3 times on the College
                                 Academic Skills Table.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | COLLEGE ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | JACK-OF-ALL-TRADES
                  2  | Technical
                  3  | Criminology
                  4  | Performance
                  5  | Science
                  6  | Academic
           
 Technical      Criminology     Performance  Science       Academic
 ---------      -----------     -----------  -------       --------         

  ARMORY         FORENSICS       ART          ARCHAEOLOGY   INSTRUCTION
  ASTROGATION    INTERROGATION   ACTING       BIOLOGY       RESEARCH  
  COMMUNICATION  INVESTIGATION   DANCE        CHEMISTRY       
  COMPUTER                       MUSIC        GEOLOGY         
  CRAFTSMAN                      WRITING      HISTORY         
  ELECTRONICS                                 LINGUISTICS     
  ENGINEERING                                 MEDICAL         
  GRAVITICS                                   PHILOSOPHY      
  MECHANICS                                   PHYSICS         
  ROBOTICS                                    PSIONICOLOGY    
  SENSORS                                     PSYCHOLOGY

        4.  Admission to Officer Training  (OTC)

            a.  Roll 2D6 <= 6, DM: SOC >= 8, +1
            
            b.  Benefit:  TACTICS and (ADMINISTRATION or LEADERSHIP)
            
            c.  Rank:  On graduation, Automatic enlistment in Army at O1.

suggested page break
                       
        5.  Admission to Naval Officer Training (NOTC)
        
            a.  Roll 2D6 <= 5, DM: SOC >= A, +1
            
            b.  Benefit:  TACTICS and (ADMINISTRATION or lEADERSHIP)
            
            c.  Rank:  On graduation, Automatic enlistment in Navy at O1.
            
        6.  Graduation with a BS, BFA, or BA degree.
        
        7.  Graduation with Honors

            a.  Roll 2D6 <= 7
            
            b.  Benefits  +1 EDU
                          Can apply for Medical School
                          If NOTC, can apply for Flight School
                          
        8.  Final Results
            
            a.  Older by 1 year * number of rolls on the Academic Skills
                Table
                      
            b.  +1 EDU * number of rolls on the Academic Skills Table

suggested page break

    B.  MERCHANT ACADEMY (4 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:   Homeworld Starport of A, B, or C
                            Age = 18
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   INT >= A, +1
                                       EDU >= A, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 8, +1
                                       INT >= 8, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 7 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 4 times on the Skill Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1D3 times on the Skill Table.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | MERCHANT ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | JACK-OF-ALL-TRADES
                  2  | Charisma  
                  3  | Technical
                  4  | Bureaucracy
                  5  | Business
                  6  | Business
           
  Charisma     Technical        Bureaucracy       Business
  --------     ---------        -----------       --------
   BRIBERY      ARMORY           ADMINISTRATION    BROKER
   CAROUSING    ASTROGATION      LEADERSHIP        TRADER
   DIPLOMACY    COMMUNICATION
   FAST TALK    COMPUTER
                CRAFTSMAN
                ELECTRONICS
                ENGINEERING
                GRAVITICS
                MECHANICS
                ROBOTICS
                SENSORS

        4.  Graduation: Automatic enlistment in Merchant career at Rank O1.
        
        5.  Graduation with Honors

            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:  INT >= 9, +1
                                      END >= A, +1
            b.  Roll 2d6 <= 5 + DM'S
                                                  
            c.  Benefits  +1 EDU
                          Can apply for Medical School
                          
        6.  Final Results
            
            a.  Older by 1 year * number of rolls on the Skills Table
                      
            b.  +1 EDU * number of rolls on the Skills Table

suggested page break

    C.  MILITARY ACADEMY (4 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  SOC >= 6
                           AGE <= 20
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   EDU >= 9, +1
                                       SOC >= A, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 4 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 9, +1
                                       INT >= 9, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 4 times on the Military Academic
                                 Skills Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1D3 times on the Military Academic
                                 Skills Table & Enter Army as enlistee.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | MILITARY ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | TACTICS           
                  2  | Bureaucracy                  Bureaucracy     
                  3  | Bureaucracy                  -----------     
                  4  | HEAVY WEAPONS                 ADMINISTRATION 
                  5  | FORWARD OBSERVER              LEADERSHIP     
                  6  | COMPUTER

        4.  Graduation:  Automatic Enlistment in Army at Rank of O1.
        
        5.  Graduation with Honors

            a.  Sum DM's that apply:  INT >= 9, +1
                                      END >= B, +1            
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S
            
            c.  Benefit:  +1 EDU
                          Can apply for Medical School
                          Can apply for Commando School
                          
        6.  Final Results
            
            a.  Older by 1 year * number of rolls on the Academic Skills
                Table
                      
            b.  +1 EDU * number of rolls on the Academic Skills Table

suggested page break

    D.  NAVAL ACADEMY  (4 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  SOC >= 6
                           AGE <= 20
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   EDU >= 9, +1
                                       SOC >= A, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 4 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 9, +1
                                       INT >= 9, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 4 times on the Naval Academic Skills
                                 Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1D3 times on the Naval Academic
                                 Skills Table & Enter Navy as enlistee.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | NAVAL ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | TACTICS           
                  2  | Bureaucracy                  Bureaucracy     
                  3  | Bureaucracy                  -----------     
                  4  | HEAVY WEAPONS                 ADMINISTRATION 
                  5  | FORWARD OBSERVER              LEADERSHIP     
                  6  | COMPUTER

        4.  Graduation:  Automatic Enlistment in Navy at Rank of O1.
        
        5.  Graduation with Honors

            a.  Sum DM's that apply:  INT >= 9, +1
                                      END >= B, +1            
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 7 + DM'S
            
            c.  Benefit:  +1 EDU
                          Can apply for Medical School
                          Automatic acceptance in Flight School       
                          
        6.  Final Results
            
            a.  Older by 1 year * number of rolls on the Academic Skills
                Table
                      
            b.  +1 EDU * number of rolls on the Academic Skills Table

suggested page break

    E.  MEDICAL SCHOOL (4 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  College Honors
                           Military Honors
                           Naval Honors
                           Merchant Honors                
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   INT >= 8, +1
                                       SOC >= A, +2
                                       EDU >= A, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 9, +1
                                       EDU >= 8, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 4 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 4 times on the Medical School
                                 Academic Skills Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1D3 times on the Medical School
                                 Academic Skills Table.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | MEDICAL SCHOOL ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------------                    

                  1  | RESEARCH
                  2  | ADMINISTRATION
                  3  | MEDICAL    
                  4  | MEDICAL    
                  5  | RESEARCH
                  6  | ADMINISTRATION
            
        4.  Minimum Benefit:   MEDICAL-3
            
        5.  Graduation provides for Automatic enlistment in:  
        
                ARMY at rank O3
                NAVY at rank O3
                MERCHANT at rank O3
                SCHOLAR career
                                                                          
        7.  Graduation with Honors

            a.  Sum DM's that apply: INT >= B, +1
                                     END >= B, +1
            a.  Roll 2D6 <= 4
            
            b.  Benefits  MEDICAL  
                          COMPUTER
                          +1 EDU
                          
        8.  Final Results
            
            a.  Older by 1 year * number of rolls on the Academic Skills
                Table

suggested page break

    F.  GRADUATE SCHOOL (2 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  Graduate of College, Naval or Military Academy
        
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   INT >= 9, +1
                                       EDU >= A, +1
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 7 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 8, +1
                                       INT >= 8, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 8 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 2 times on the Skills Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1 time on the Skills Table.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | GRADUATE SCHOOL ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | JACK-OF-ALL-TRADES
                  2  | Technical
                  3  | Science  or  Performance
                  4  | Science  or  Performance
                  5  | Science  or  Performance
                  6  | Academic
           
 Technical       Performance  Science       Academic
 ---------       -----------  -------       --------          
  ARMORY          ART          ARCHAEOLOGY   INSTRUCTION
  ASTROGATION     ACTING       BIOLOGY       RESEARCH  
  COMMUNICATION   DANCE        CHEMISTRY       
  COMPUTER        MUSIC        GEOLOGY         
  CRAFTSMAN       WRITING      HISTORY         
  ELECTRONICS                  LINGUISTICS     
  ENGINEERING                  MEDICAL         
  GRAVITICS                    PHILOSOPHY      
  MECHANICS                    PHYSICS         
  ROBOTICS                     PSIONICOLOGY    
  SENSORS                      PSYCHOLOGY

        4.  Graduation with a MS, MFA, or MA degree upon 1st completion.
            On 2nd completion, Ph.D
        
        5.  Graduation with Honors

            a.  Roll 2D6 <= 8
            
            b.  Benefits  +1 EDU
                          
        8.  Final Results
            
            a.  Older by 1 year * number of rolls on the Academic Skills
                Table
                      
            b.  +1 EDU * number of rolls on the Academic Skills Table

suggested page break

    G.  COMMANDO SCHOOL  (1 years)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  Honors Graduate of Military Academy

        2.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 9, +1
                                       INT >= 9, +1
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 2 times on the Commando Academic
                                 Skills Table, 3 times on Army Career
                                 Table.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1 times on the Commando Academic
                                 Skills Table, 3 times on Army Career
                                 Table.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | COMMANDO ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | GUN COMBATS          
                  2  | ENVIRONMENT COMBAT     
                  3  | HEAVY WEAPONS     
                  4  | DEMOLITIONS 
                  5  | RECON     
                  6  | SURVIVAL

suggested page break

    H.  FLIGHT SCHOOL  (1 year)
    
        1.  Prerequisite:  Commissioned (NOTC) College Honors Graduate
                           Graduate of Naval Academy [note:  Automatic
                              Admission for Honors Graduate}
        2.  Admission
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   DEX >= 9, +1

            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 5 + DM'S    
            
            c.  No Age Penalty on failed Admission
            
        3.  Perseverance
        
            a.  Sum DM'S that apply:   END >= 9, +1
                                       INT >= 9, +2
            b.  Roll 2D6 <= 7 + DM'S
            
                1.  On SUCCESS:  Roll 2 times on the FLIGHT SCHOOL Academic
                                 Skills Table, complete next 3 years as
                                 normal Navy Officer.
                
                2.  On FAILURE:  Roll 1 times on the FLIGHT SCHOOL Academic
                                 Skills Table, complete next 3 years as
                                 normal Navy Officer.
                                 
            ROLL 1D6 | FLIGHT SCHOOL ACADEMIC SKILLS TABLE
            ---------|-------------------------------                     
                  1  | ASTROGATION         
                  2  | ASTROGATION     
                  3  | PILOT    
                  4  | PILOT 
                  5  | SHIP'S BOAT     
                  6  | SHIP'S BOAT

        4.  Minimum Benefit:   Pilot-1
        
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #933
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 10 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 934



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Re: RR surface area
Re: [TML] Lasers and Streamlining
[TML] minimum bridge size. was:j-drive cost
Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs
[TML] Penetration Values
[TML] Re: RR surface area
[TML] Re:Penetration Values
[TML] Last ISBA
[TML] Re: PP surface area
[TML] Re:Penetration Values
Re: [TML] Glenn Hoppe's Sub Merchant Marathon map.
Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
[TML] Re: THUDD is off.
[TML] bargain priced J1 drives
[TML] Lasers and reflective surfaces
[TML] Re:Penetration Values
[TML] Re: Imperium Ship Builders Association
[TML] Sandcasters, Black globes and BR question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 02:25:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: RR surface area

Derek Wildstar writes:
>Comments and opinions:
>Note that while the power plant surface area doesn't work in Traveller
>from a game-design standpoint (it invalidates large starships), from
>the standpoint of real-world physics, it's required: every megawatt of
>power generated onboard a ship has to leave somehow, or else the occupants
>of the ship are going to get cooked.
> 
>In space, the only way to get rid of heat is to radiate it overboard, and
>this is a fuction of how hot we can make the radiators (since we can't do
>anything about the temperature of space), and how much of the hull's area
>we can devote to them.  Although a pair of cooling wings would help,
>closely-spaced "fins" like on the heat-sink of a computer chip only work
>in an atmosphere.

Someone once told me that ordinary heat sensors ought to be able to detect
starships at ranges far in excess of the ranges allowed by the Traveller
ship combat system (don't ask me which one). Is this true? If it is, perhaps
you should consider using some other dimension (jump-space or sub-space or
whatever thrusters thrusts against (no, waitaminute, nowadays thrusters
thrust against gravitational potential or something, don't they?). Anyway,
use something other than the universe as a heat sink. It may mess up some
thermodynamic laws a li'l bit, but so what? If sticking to Real Life
physics means invalidating Really Big Ships then I say stuff Real Life
physics!

Besides, introducing an extra-dimensional heat sink isn't really messing up
Real Life physics, is it? It's more like adding to them, right ;-)

>In the Naval Architect's Handbook, it's likely that some consideration will
>be given to this entire question, but for now, for SSDS and QSDS, we can
>ignore it, and assume that whatever solution the Imperium's engineers come
>up with, it doesn't require very much surface area.

That would apply to a other-dimensional heat sink, wouldn't it?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:32:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Lasers and Streamlining

Hi.

> From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>

>> IMHO, the lack of [ship landing ability] is the worst omission of the
>> current T4 USP.

> Will the addition of the configuration, along with the above information,
> help?

Perfectly. Thanks!

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:40:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: [TML] minimum bridge size. was:j-drive cost

Hi.

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

> I'm 98% sure that it was 20 T. 2% of the ship, but minimum 20 T. A 1000 T
> ship was the smallest ship not to have a proportionally oversized bridge.

You are exactly right, High Guard, p. 27. I'm 99% sure it was the same
in Book 2.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 19:15:46 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs

On 02/09/97 at 08:23 PM,  Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net> said:

> The mechanism I have used is to reduce the cost of whatever by 10% for
> each tech level above the introduction tech level. Example: item
> introduced at tech level 10 costs 100% of listed price, if made at tech
> level 11, costs 90%, 12 gets you 80%. One reason why lower jump drives
> are still popular at higher tech levels is the reduction in cost. 

> Same works going the other way (given the techology exists). A tech level
> 10 item that is feasible at tech level 9 cost

Gary, this is the sort of thing I usually do too. In fact, I use the 10%
reduction for each tl as well. ;->

I was suggesting that something like this should be including in the ship
design systems...at least as an option.  Other options might include,
systems becoming available in military and government ships before they do
in civilian ships, volumes dropping for lower jump-numbered drives as tech
improves, that sort of thing.  

Finally, I don't like the, "one size" fits all model in the tables.  I'd
like to see some randomization, or at least customization, built in so
different *companies* power plants, drives, sensor suites, etc would have
slightly different characteristics.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:14:51 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

Robert Flammang wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> > From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
> [snip]
> 
> You may have mentioned this, but if you did, I missed it. I think that
> the ability (or lack thereof) of a ship to land on a planet should be
> mentioned somewhat prominantly in the USP.
> 
> IMHO, the lack of this is the worst omission of the current T4 USP.
> 
> Just my $0.02.
> 
> -Rob

In past versions, it's been assumed that any ship designed with an
aerodynamic or streamlined hull can land on a planet. Has anyone
found the same statement in T4?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 21:52:29 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> Finally, I don't like the, "one size" fits all model in the tables.  I'd
> like to see some randomization, or at least customization, built in so
> different *companies* power plants, drives, sensor suites, etc would have
> slightly different characteristics.

How about roll 2D6-7 (or even 4D6-14) as a percentage change in volume and price for 
different systems?
So you roll for Mused Shipyards (an independent yard, not related to Vates, whoever the 
hell they are) and you get +1% volume, -2% price on jump drives, -1% volume and -4% 
price on thrusters and then +3% volume and price on electronics (they proudly do not use 
the ubiquitous Pentium 12000)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 20:21:14 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Penetration Values

On 02/09/97 at 04:22 PM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:

> The penetration values might get into triple digits for some weapons,
> mighten they?

> Probably not.  I've done some more numbers, and that cube root in Greg's
> formula makes the curve REALLY steep as the energy level rises.  I ran
> the numbers for a 68,000Mj weapon, and the penetration is only about 65;
> it's not likely to be possible to build a ship-mounted weapon that hits
> 99.

Yeah, I did a "back of the envelope" calculation and you're right. Anything
that gets into triple digits is going to be monsterious.

> So far the only unfortunate thing about the conversion is that it puts
> most of the useful ship-scale weapons into penetration value between 30
> and 50. It also tends to make ship combat more 'deadly' to small civilian
> ships (which are likely to have armor values from 15 to 25), but not
> unacceptably so, in my opinion.

Actually, that's probably pretty realistic.  The sort of weapons normally
found on military ships *should* punch right through thin armored civilian
ships.  I'd *like* a different model (as you probably recall from my Age of
Sail posts), but then again maybe a few quick thrusts through a merchantman
would be enough to disable her without damaging her so badly she can't be
repaired.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 21:57:25 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: RR surface area

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> Someone once told me that ordinary heat sensors ought to be able to detect
> starships at ranges far in excess of the ranges allowed by the Traveller
> ship combat system (don't ask me which one). Is this true?

I think that the Traveller space combat systems since T:TNE have handled
this in a (more or less) correct manner.

In T4's basic combat system, as well as the (recommended) Role-Playing Space
Combat system, the game system assumes that starships can detect a "bogey"
at ranges far greater than any starship weapon can fire, and likely beyond
well the edges of any reasonable playing board.

This "bogey detection" is enough to alert the crew that there is indeed
something out there and it's approximate location (say, to the nearest hex
or so), but it's not exact enough to generate a firing solution.  The
"bogey" is likely an area of space that looks hotter than it has any right
to be.

However, to be able to shoot at that hot-spot with any chance of hitting, we
need more information - a firing solution.  The ability to generate a firing
solution is limited more by the ability of sensors to resolve the target
than to detect it; this in turn is primarily determined by the diameter of
the sensor array (and therefore the overall length of the ship).  This is
why the diameter of the array depends on the range of the sensor (and doesn't
change as TL increases), but the area required can be (and is) reduced as
more sensitive detectors are introduced at higher TLs.

> use something other than the universe as a heat sink. It may mess up some
> thermodynamic laws a li'l bit, but so what? If sticking to Real Life
> physics means invalidating Really Big Ships then I say stuff Real Life
> physics!

Well, that's been the consensus on this issue ever since anyone noticed it.
We'd rather have 500,000-ton ships than a thermodymically defensable means
of handing the heat generated by that 500,000 ton ship's fusion plant.  :-)

> Besides, introducing an extra-dimensional heat sink isn't really messing up
> Real Life physics, is it? It's more like adding to them, right ;-)

Right.  ;-)

> >ignore it, and assume that whatever solution the Imperium's engineers come
> >up with, it doesn't require very much surface area.
> That would apply to a other-dimensional heat sink, wouldn't it?

Yes, it would - but you said it, and not me.  ;-)

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   "Dreams do not vanish, so long as people do
                                    not abandon them."  --- Phantom F. Harlock

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:07:12 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] Re:Penetration Values

At 08:21 PM 2/9/97 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>On 02/09/97 at 04:22 PM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:
>
>> The penetration values might get into triple digits for some weapons,
>> mighten they?
>
>> Probably not.  I've done some more numbers, and that cube root in Greg's
>> formula makes the curve REALLY steep as the energy level rises.  I ran
>> the numbers for a 68,000Mj weapon, and the penetration is only about 65;
>> it's not likely to be possible to build a ship-mounted weapon that hits
>> 99.
>
>Yeah, I did a "back of the envelope" calculation and you're right. Anything
>that gets into triple digits is going to be monsterious.
>

Well using a 3G3 spreadsheet you will need a p-beam weapon with a input of
15,980,000,000 joules gving a Dv of 9181 which converting to Y4 is
muliplied by giving a DV of 45900, when converted to T4 pen of 100. A laser
would need an input of 15,000,000,000,000 joules giving a DV of 47958 which
will conver to T4 pen of 101. Also using rocket/missiles you can get into
the triple digit range. I have not updated my spreadhseet to do that
function yet.


<snip>
Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:18:57 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: [TML] Last ISBA

Part III
** Role playing off **

Here is the list of the first members to respond 

Andrew Vallance:                  Phoenix Corporation 
Rodrroch Elliot:                     Famille Spofulam
JD Burdick:                            FeZUnA
Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett:     LTD -- Luwas, Tsefe, and Drummond
Derek WildStar                      Arcadia Shipyards
Rich Ostoreo                          FREEDOM STARSHIPS
Shadowcat                              Maximus Defense Industries Tim
Reynolds                         Founder Ship Works Bill Prankard     
                    X Tech Industries

What we hope to do is bring role playing to the starship creation
process by taking on the role of companies that produce ships.  There
will be a general organization created shortly but I hope to open
membership to all parts of the industry.  Including Government,
Merchants, Military, Mercenaries ect.  This would allow those who are
not interested in ship building it self to role play along with the
rest of us.  As time goes on I want to change this into a PBeM
campaign.  If you are interested in the idea please drop me a line at 

tim@premier.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:26:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: PP surface area

Wildstar writes:
>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
>>Someone once told me that ordinary heat sensors ought to be able to detect
>>starships at ranges far in excess of the ranges allowed by the Traveller
>>ship combat system (don't ask me which one). Is this true?
> 
>I think that the Traveller space combat systems since T:TNE have handled
>this in a (more or less) correct manner.
> 
>In T4's basic combat system, as well as the (recommended) Role-Playing Space
>Combat system, the game system assumes that starships can detect a "bogey"
>at ranges far greater than any starship weapon can fire, and likely beyond
>well the edges of any reasonable playing board.

I just had another idea for that sub-space heat-sink: Wouldn't such a thing
work as a sork of cloaking device by reducing the heat signature of the
ship? Perhaps to the point where detection ranges were BACK to the CT
values?

Perhaps you could allow a ship to count each ton of such a heat-sink as X
square meter of surface hull. Any ship that has more "interior" surface
area than needed would reduce it's heat signature to zero (Of course, there
are other kinds of detectors, but perhaps they would be shorter ranged?

The price and volume could be worked out to make 1 million T ships the 
largest feasible (at TL 15).

Just a few undigested ideas...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 23:28:48 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re:Penetration Values

"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
> Well using a 3G3 spreadsheet you will need a p-beam weapon with a input of
> 15,980,000,000 joules gving a Dv of 9181 which converting to Y4 is
> muliplied by giving a DV of 45900, when converted to T4 pen of 100.

This sounds much too low (I needed a 68,000,000,000,000 joule [68,000Mj]
weapon to generate a T4 penetration of 65 for a starship weapon).  Greg has
mentioned that attempting to build starship-class weapons with 3G3 needs
careful attention to detail.

I suspect that you don't have a wide enough beam for any of your designs to
reach to starship combat ranges.  For refrence, a starship combat laser
should have a beam between 1 and 2 meters in diameter.

In the past, Greg has suggested continuing to use the FF&S weapon design
sequences for starship weapons; I am currently working on a way of doing
this and still be able to produce numbers that mesh with the vehicle and
personal combat systems.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                "Oh, you fools!  Dance to your heart's content
                                 in that small world of yours.  Our world is
                                 the whole of space!"   --- Phantom F. Harlock

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 23:00:34 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] Glenn Hoppe's Sub Merchant Marathon map.

Roderick wrote:
>        Those of you with Macs will surely know about Marathon (gorgeous 3d
>SF-themed DOOMer)...  And those of you who have visited his Jumpspace web
>site will know that he has two marathon maps up there.
>
>        I must report that sadly, with respect to the one he did based on
>the Subsidized Merchant, that he has committed a grievous breach of canon;
>while the upper deck is very nicely done, HE PUT TWO BLOODY JUGGERNAUTS IN
>THE HOLD!!!

The juggernauts are actually Ling Standard Products XP-2000 Grav Attack 
Sleds whose navigational and fire control computers were accidentally 
infected with Virus ;-)

>        I'm still twitching from the shock of it all... the horror... the 
>horror
>
>        Nice map Glenn... any more like this in store?


Now that you've mentioned it, I've been messing around with a few new map 
ideas I've had... I hope to have 4 new net maps posted by Thursday, 
including a newly-renovated Acropolis.

The bad news is: I haven't done any more Traveller themed maps tho'...
The good news: My new maps don't include any Juggernauts :-)

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 22:36:10 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] [Traveller Answer] Jump Drive Costs

On 02/08/97 at 09:52 PM,  Mused <marz@hotstar.net> said:

> > Finally, I don't like the, "one size" fits all model in the tables.  I'd
> > like to see some randomization, or at least customization, built in so
> > different *companies* power plants, drives, sensor suites, etc would have
> > slightly different characteristics.

> How about roll 2D6-7 (or even 4D6-14) as a percentage change in volume
> and price for  different systems?

Yep, that's the idea. <g>

> So you roll for Mused Shipyards (an independent yard, not related to
> Vates, whoever the  hell they are) and you get +1% volume, -2% price on
> jump drives, -1% volume and -4%  price on thrusters and then +3% volume
> and price on electronics (they proudly do not use  the ubiquitous Pentium
> 12000)

Absolutely!  The problem with doing things this way, is that
*prices* can't be completely uniform...nor can volumes, nor
capabilities.  That's not a problem in *my* mind, but it might be for some
people. 

And now a word from our sponser...Rannock Reactors (a wholly owned
subsidiary of Rannock House, Ltd.) is proud to announce a successful test
of its prototype CPF (Casimir Pinch Fusion) reactor.  Although commercial
production may be several years away, the new CPF technology promises to be
a "breakthrough" in the direct extraction of electricity from the vacuum. 
In yesterday's test the prototype ran for only a few seconds, but operated
at well above "break even" with a heat lose of less than 0.01%.  Stay tuned
for future
announcements.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 01:15:03 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

Eris Reddoch writes:
 
>I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding of what's going on:
>The FCC, exempted ISP's, temporarily, from a special Access Fee back in
>the 80's, that goes to the local phone companies (RBOCs) to offset 
>their costs of providing (and keeping low charges for) local service.  >The reason ISP's were exempted was to encourage the
>development of alternative telecommunication networks, specifically the
>internet.  Long-distance carriers have been paying an Access Fee all >along.

   OK, so now it's all starting to make sense, thanks Eris.  That also
better explains the article from CNNfn regarding the study commissioned
by the IAC.  With the regional Bells squaring off against heavy hitters
like AOL, Apple, Compaq, etc.  It's shaping up to be a major war.  May
be time to call up my LCP (local cable provider) and avoid the
firefight.  Besides, I'm not looking forward to investing in a 56K modem
anyway.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:42:38 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD is off.

Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:
>Mission Spec:  Near so far as I can tell, a Far Trader must:
> 
>a) be capable of Jump-2 or higher,
> 
>b) be commercially viable,

How do we decide what is commercially viable and what isn't? Can we assume
that all staterooms will be full on each trip? Do we always fill up the cargo
hold with freight? What kind of profit can we calculate with if the ship is
used for speculative trade? how many jumps per year can we assume? How do we
handle the life support discrepancy? What crew salaries do we pay?

>c) affordable by non-megacorp purchasers, and

How much can non-megacorp purchasers afford?

>d) since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max.

Can we interpolate non-standard QSDS parts? If we do, do we assume they cost
full price or do we assume that our design will be built in quantities large
enough to get the 25% discount anyway?

Can we use many small power plants or do we have to use the smallest number
needed to get the desired wattage?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:51:11 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: [TML] bargain priced J1 drives

>The Tech Level that the Jump Drive is built at should affect it's cost, as
>well.  I would think jump-1 drives would become less expensive as the
>current level of technology moves up to jump-2 and jump-3.
 
  It used to be possible to finesse/scam this effect using the
"Relative Value Table" in TCS, Striker boxed set, and I believe
also a JTAS.  Just order a J1 drive from a TL 9 world to install
at your TL 12 shipyard, and compare the 0.70 : 0.85 value ratio,
and then count your savings after shipping, handling, customs,
piracy, bribery, and entertaining sales reps...
        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:16:35 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: [TML] Lasers and reflective surfaces

shadow wrote:

> Reflective coatings. Trouble is, the slightest scratch or bit of dust
> will create a hot spot that negates the effects. 

	Another trouble is that absolute 100% reflective surfaces
	do not exist in real world (as far as I know). Usually when
	someone is talking about lasers and mirror, he means
	milliwatt-range lasers. With stronger lasers the unreflected
	percentage of laser energy will heat up the reflective
	surface and may eventually vaporize the surface.

	Example: According to FFS, a laser beam will be focused to
	1 cm2 spot (1.13 cm diameter) within Short Range. Assuming
	that 150 MJ starship lasers can release the laser pulse in
	~1 ns, the whole laser beam will be ~30 cm long. (The lasers
	we are experimenting with in TUT fire ~15 cm long beams.)

	When the beam hits a reflective surface, the unreflected
	percentage of the first millimeters of this 30 cm beam will
	vaporize the reflective surface and render it ineffective.

	Reflective surfaces and reflec armors may be useful for
	protection against laser-guided missiles, but are likely to
	be totally useless against strong pulse lasers.
	

        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 06:35:57 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] Re:Penetration Values

At 11:28 PM 2/9/97 -0500, Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:
>"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
>> Well using a 3G3 spreadsheet you will need a p-beam weapon with a input of
>> 15,980,000,000 joules gving a Dv of 9181 which converting to Y4 is
>> muliplied by giving a DV of 45900, when converted to T4 pen of 100.
>
>This sounds much too low (I needed a 68,000,000,000,000 joule [68,000Mj]
>weapon to generate a T4 penetration of 65 for a starship weapon).  Greg has
>mentioned that attempting to build starship-class weapons with 3G3 needs
>careful attention to detail.
>

Hmm, Ooops, The DV of 9181 is multiplied by 5 to get to DV of 45900, I have
cross checked my figures against the 3G3 spreadsheet that a friend has
bought both spreadsheets come up with the same answer, a T4 pen/dam of 100.

>I suspect that you don't have a wide enough beam for any of your designs to
>reach to starship combat ranges.  For refrence, a starship combat laser
>should have a beam between 1 and 2 meters in diameter.
>

Well the laser has input of 15,000,000,000,000 joules or 15,000,000Mj to
get a DV of 47958 which will conver to T4 pen/dam of 101. The beam diameter
is 47936.4
mm or 47.936 meters.

>In the past, Greg has suggested continuing to use the FF&S weapon design
>sequences for starship weapons; I am currently working on a way of doing
>this and still be able to produce numbers that mesh with the vehicle and
>personal combat systems.
>
>

You can use 3G3 to design starship weapons you just run the Range class out
beyond an 8.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:56:47 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperium Ship Builders Association

Famille Spofulam Press Release, Sylea Year 0 Day 38



        Famille Spofulam greets with enthusiasm the formation of the
Imperium Ship Builders Association, and wishes to state that it welcomes
this development.  Famille Spofulam Yards, FS's shipbuilding division, is
proud to become a member of such a distinguised organisation.

        Famille Spofulam also wishes to state that the ISBA will provide a
welcome stimulus to the Imperium's naval construction industry, by allowing
shipbuilders to present a common front against the omnipresent threat of
the organized labour movement, by allowing its members to mount a unified,
strong, and continuous lobbying effort, by allowing members to work towards
developing more optimal common pricing agreements, and of course by
facilitating the development of joint ventures.  Increased cooperation on
all these fronts by members of this most strategic of industries can only
help further the Imperial cause and benefit the citizens of the Imperium.
What is good for the ISBA is good for the Imperium.

        Hengabar Spofulam and head corporate counsel Emphyteusis Spofulam
will shortly be departing Sylea via Mouffette-Rapide courier vessel to
attend the formative meeting of the ISBA, and the first annual FSY
corporate retreat is being cut short by a week in order to deal with this
important new development.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:09:08 GMT
From: Nicolas LEJEUNE <nlejeune@suresnes.marben.fr>
Subject: [TML] Sandcasters, Black globes and BR question

I would like to know your point of view on 3 questions

1- Does Sandcasters protect from PAWs? Battle Rider says Yes but this sounds
strange to me.

2- Does anyone knows what are the displacement tons of the BR Galant and the
BR Admiral?

3- FFS gives the data about Black Globes, and says (i don't remeber the
exact page) that for bigger ship the power requirement is greater. Is it
only the Power requierements which has to be multiplied by the shown value
or all the figures (volume, price(ouuuch!)...) which have to be increased?


Thanks in advance.

- -----------
Nicolas LEJEUNE
   Engineer, Paris, France
   Sligos Marben.
   Traveller (TNE), and WhiteWolf RPG
   nlejeune@suresnes.marben.fr

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #934
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 10 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 935



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?
Re: [TML] Online copies of books
[TML] ISBA and the SSDS class
[TML] X-TEK Plans for 2 new designs (AKA THUDD
[TML] Role Playing ISBA:  Dates
[TML] ISBA
[TML] THUDD Web Info
[TML] Ship types and uses.
[TML] CG in ships?
[TML] THUDDD Clarification
Re: [TML] Re: THUDD is off.
Re: [TML] Last ISBA
Re: [TML] The THUDDD is off! (Far Trader won)
[TML] Re: Techno Trousers
[TML] Re: Techno Trousers
[TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)
Re: [TML] Re: SF films
[TML] Re: THUDD voting
[TML] Re: Sandcasters
[TML] Re: RR surface area
[TML] Annoying Disclaimers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:37:24 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Doctor Who a rip-off? of what?

Zhodani agents report that Leonard Erickson wrote:

- -> In mail you write:
- -> 
- -> > My vote for the Worst ever SciFi-attempt goes out to the Perry Rhodan 
- -> > Moviee: S.o.s. in outer space! Nothing similar to the series and just 
- -> > soo badly made!
- -> 
- -> Hmmm. It occurs to me that a ref could do worse than use the Perry
- -> Rhodan series as a campaign background. :-)
Much much worse! Don't get me wrong, i LOVE Perry, i read it every 
week (and a fun bit for you americans still waiting for the 
continuation: We just got issue 1851;-) ) I just said that the Movie 
was bad, very bad, oh so very very bad....
I agree, the Perry Rhodan Multiverse makes a GREAT background for 
gaming, a pity that the company producing the PR-RPG folded so soon! 
Well, such is life!
In this sense, ad astra, Terrans
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:29:21 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Online copies of books

Zhodani agents report that Erwin Fritz wrote:
 
- -> > -> I actually have the three MT books online. When I make a rules change, I
- -> > -> edit those versions and reprint the appropriate pages. The rule books I
- -> > -> use are printed copies of the online versions, and my original MT books
- -> > -> are
- -> > -> in a box somewhere. That way I always have the most current rules right
- -> > -> in
- -> > -> front of me.
- -> > -> --
- -> > -> Erwin Fritz
(My bit snipped)
- -> Actually, I went the tedious route. Over a two year period, doing a
- -> little bit almost every day, I typed them in. Scanning wasn't that reliable,
- -> and by typing them in I could correct for errata and change rules at the
- -> same time.
Wow, that really does sound like a lot of work to me! 
Thanks for the reply, but i don't think i'll follow your example!
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:21:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: [TML] ISBA and the SSDS class

The following is a press release from X-TEK Industries
From Commander X(pay no attention to the man behind the curtain)

<NOTE things in ** are OOC>

037-0001 DSS-X  AX00513-C "Planet X"

The Imperial Ship Builders Association

X-TEK Industries is proud to announce the formation ot the Imperial Ship 
Builders Association.  On 034, the CEO of Founder Ship Works came to me with 
aproposal via comm channels(**IRC**).  That night I aggreed to join Founder 
in becoming a "founder" or the ISBA.  Although the Commander has been buisy 
with many projects recently, including the very "hush hush" Project Fnord, 
trying to gather new data for the 2nd shipbuilding class(**did you guys 
realy HAVE to change everything before I gave the class? :-)  **) and 
preparing for a conference on VR Holosims on the Imperial Fringeworld of 
Jax(**Jaxcon**), he has been able to engineer the transition to this new 
association.

The Commander understands the belatedness of this release as many Companies 
and Corporations have joined the ISBA in the past 3 days.  The Commander 
Extends his his fondest greetings.

The Commander would also, out of respect and courtesy to the Emperor, 
Officialy Anounce that Cleon Industries be made a "Honorary" Member.  For 
without the backing of Cleon Corp(**Yes Marc, this is for  you! :-)**) none 
of this would be posible.

 The Commander would like to say that at the class on Saturday, this will be 
a SSDS class yes, but some discussion will be made about QSDS and how QSDS 
"packages" are made from SSDS.  Eventualy he would like to get together with 
Mr. "Wildstar" on his QSDS 2.0 and posibly the creation of the USDS. Tthis 
takes parts from QSDS, SSDS, and VDS, and amalgams them together into a 
Unified Ship Design System. (**Prolly just FF&S sans guns**) This is 
basicaly the way the Commander has been making his ships: Take a standard 
QSDS hull, or create a custom SSDS hull, put in propulsion systems (QS or 
SS), the Commander Prefers the QSDS weapons packages, but custom weapons are 
being requested every day.  Hmmm, see a patern forming?

The Commander Proposes that items from QSDS get a 20% discount and those 
from SSDS get none at all.   QSDS is "Factory Standard"  while SSDS is 
"Custom Handmade"  Obviously something custom should cost more.

All this and more will be discussed at the class,The CommanderI will be 
loging it so that he can get the latest changes/errata/updates as the class 
builds the Free Trader.

A Quote from the Commander:

"Whats this about charging 14x more for QSDS J-drives?  (Cha-CHING!!!)"
The Commander had a wicked "credit gleam" in his eye as he said this.

This concludes this press release from X-TEK Industries

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:38:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: [TML] X-TEK Plans for 2 new designs (AKA THUDD

The Following is a press release from X-TEK Industries
from Commander X(pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

041-0001 DSS-X AX00513 "Planet X"

The Commander would like to Announce the proposals for 2 new ship designs. 
 Both of wich are part of the new "Year One" Family of ships.

The FT-1 "Cyrano" Class 200Td  Far Trader
The HFB-1 "Claymore" 800Td  Class Merc Cruiser.  (Whats HFB? You're not 
cleared for that information.)

The Commander would also like to ask Mr. Scott Galiand if he could update 
his QSDS forms to include the new format proposed by Mr. Wildstar.

Both ships  will become availble after the prototypes have been delivered to 
the ISBA THUDDD compound for testing and analysis.

This concludes this press release from X-TEK Industries.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:06:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: [TML] Role Playing ISBA:  Dates

The following is from Commander X at the office
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

Greetings fellow ISBA'ers.

I have but one thing that is perplexing me with regards to dates of press 
releases ,anouncemnets, and other ISBA relate role playing thingies.

Planet X seems to be in a time dilation loop,  my dates are 0001, everyone 
else in 0000.  Perhaps I assumed incorrectly that year zero started when T4 
was released back in September.  We need to find out what the "official" 
date is.  I could be incorect, and year zero starts with the relase of "M:0" 
( which I believe is due today, Feb 10th?)

It is no problem to change to year zero for me,  its just that my old Slyean 
Windows-650 can't understand that its Year Zero and not 651!  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:13:33 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: [TML] ISBA

EuroAmerican Peoples State Spacelines, will gladly filch, er I mean Join
the Peoples Ship Design collective, (I'm Playing around Sol, at Milleu 0),

By the way does anybody have maps of space as at milleu zero, something
like Andy House's Scout Survey, doe's anybody have Andy's URL (I had a
virus and lost my system with all usefull information as well as the crud)
and what period is The scout survey set.




Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:18:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDD Web Info

For those who want to keep track of the THUDD via the web,
I've posted the "rules" (ie. Roderick's post) to
http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/thudd/index.html

Further updates should also be included there and hopefully
formatting will be refined as I go along...

Ethan

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:23:54 -0500
From: russcm@zoomnet.net (Christopher M. Russell)
Subject: [TML] Ship types and uses.

I saw some recent articles on Battlecruisers and Battleships, and did some
reaserch on my own about the different uses of military vessles in relation
to their class types. I came across an old edition of Knight's Modern
Seamanship, one from 1941. This was the edition published right before the
Japaneese Attack on Pearl Harbor, so the military doctrine at the time was
similar to the type of thinking that would govern military designs of the
Imperium, barring the differences in technology.

These definitions are compiled from various entries from Knight's and some
other input from various encyclopedic sources (Brittanica, New world, etc.)
In addition, I have noted what each vessle would likely require in Traveller
terms, as well as their possible uses.

Battleships: main line vessles requiring the highest firepower and armor 
avaliable. First priority is armament, then armor, then speed. All else is 
sacrificed to this end. These vessles would form the backbone of any naval
force, and would include a few vessles built to grand scale and called
"Dreadnoughts".

Most powerful spinal mount available.
Many high firepower bay weapons.
Heaviest armor economically available.
Most economical maneuver and jump available.

Battlecruisers: Scouts and flanking vessles. Main requirement is speed, 
then firepower, and last, armor. Usually seen as light battleships. These
vessles would scout a known hostile system, searching for enemy presence,
then, once reporting the presence to the main force, shadow and weeken the
force until the battleship's arrive. Some forces composed of only
Battlecruisers and operating independently could operate as a comerce raider
behind enemy lines.

Fastest maneuver drive economically available.
Above average jump drive.
Above average to heaviest spinal mount.
Moderate armor.


Heavy Cruiser: Usually little distinction is given between Heavy Cruisers 
and Battlecruisers, but there is a difference. Heavy Cruisers are more 
lightly armed and more attention given to speed. Useful as a courier were 
other vessles could not safely pass. They can also operate in the comerce
raider role, similar to the Battlecruiser. These would also form the core of
any military exploration and frontier defense force. Note that the USS
Enterprise from Star Trek is refered to as a Heavy Cruiser in most texts
related to the series, and is seen frequently operating far from home along
the frontier.

Highest jump economically available.
Above average maneuver drive.
Above average firepower.
Moderate armor.

Light Cruisers: first line of contact with the enemy, screening Battleships 
from other cruisers and smaller vessles. When a force of vessles finally
close with it's enemy, these would be the ships to take on the SDB's and any
other vessles attempting to outflank the force.

Many above average firepower batteries.
Fast maneuver drive.
Jump drive equal to the Battleships they operate with.

Cruisers: a general purpose category for ships talored to a specific 
mission and environment. Command Cruisers are one such example - moderate 
firepower with emphasis on communication and control suites.

Destroyers: With capability to operate alone, such as in mop-up operations 
and in low-threat interdiction missions, and with the fleet, as a flanking 
unit and screen from SDB's and fighters, supporting the Light Cruisers. In a
military campaign, these would be the vessles left behind to ensure all
SDB's are mopped up. Also, if the threat is deemed low enough, the entire
task force which strikes an area could be made up of Destroyers, with a few
Battlecruisers for fire support, leaving the main task force to conduct
operations in more hostile areas.

Many moderate firepower batteries.
Fast maneuver drive.
Above average endurance for long patrols.

The below on Frigates, etc is compiled somewhat from my own gaming
experience as well as encyclopedia references on their historical uses. 

Frigates: Special type of destroyer used for escorting unarmed or lightly 
armed merchants or auxileries in moderare threat environments and to assist 
destroyers in patrol missions. They have been refered to historically as
Destroyer Leaders and Destroyer Escorts. Frigates are useful along frontier
areas where there is a known threat to shipping.

Long endurance.
Maneuver and jump drives as to efficiently operate as screen.

Corvette: Small destroyer-type vessle used as a frontier patrol vessle and 
as a main fleet vessle for small governments. Useful as a raider by moderate 
sized governments. Useful in threat environments where a force of Heavy
Cruisers would be overkill.

Good maneuver drive.
Above average jump drive, preferably with multiple jump capability.

Gunboat: Similar in size and firepower to Corvettes, but more used in 
custom and self defense roles for smaller interstellar governments that need 
supliments to their SDB fleets. Very usefull in an undeveloped or frontier
Main area.

Average maneuver, jump drives, and firepower based on tech, economy, and need.

Couriers: built for speed, these vessles free up Heavy Cruisers for military 
use instead of messanger duty. (Did I hear Xboat?)

It must be noted that the reference to average and such will be different
from situation to situation. A good military planner must weigh threat
against economy when designing vessles.

Just my $0.02 worth... :)

Christopher M. Russell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:40:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: [TML] CG in ships?

Wildstar mentioned in his new USP post that...

>If the ship does NOT have Contra-Grav, this should
>also be noted in the maneuver drive line (as "No CG").  The default
>assumption is that most or all ships in Traveller have contra-grav, since it
>makes landings and takeoffs much easier and safer.

Why would you have CG _and_ thrusters? Aren't thrusters
effectively super-contra-grav?

Ethan

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:16:27 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD Clarification

>Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:42:38 +0100 (MET)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD is off.
>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:
>>Mission Spec:  Near so far as I can tell, a Far Trader must:
>> 
>>a) be capable of Jump-2 or higher,
>> 
>>b) be commercially viable,
>
>How do we decide what is commercially viable and what isn't? Can we assume
>that all staterooms will be full on each trip? Do we always fill up the cargo
>hold with freight? What kind of profit can we calculate with if the ship is
>used for speculative trade? how many jumps per year can we assume? How do we
>handle the life support discrepancy? What crew salaries do we pay?

First, I think this will be up to each voter when they vote.  Second, as a
suggestion (not a THUDDD pronouncement :) I would reccommend using 80%
occupancy for all passengers and cargo areas for income (assume mid & lo
passage only and 1500 Cr for freight/cargo combination).  That is the income
side of the balance sheet so to speak.  Then on the other side, use the
standards listed in T4 assuming a skill of 2 for the crew.  This should give
a basic idea of whether the ship is making a profit or not.  If anyone
doesn't quite understand this, I can post a more detailed example.

>>c) affordable by non-megacorp purchasers, and
>
>How much can non-megacorp purchasers afford?

I think this is purely speculative.  This one will probably be decided on by
you as the judge.  That is to say, you will judge whether everyone elses
design is affordable or not when you vote.

>>d) since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max.
>
>Can we interpolate non-standard QSDS parts? If we do, do we assume they cost
>full price or do we assume that our design will be built in quantities large
>enough to get the 25% discount anyway?
>
>Can we use many small power plants or do we have to use the smallest number
>needed to get the desired wattage?

This one I think Roderick will have to answer.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:24:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: THUDD is off.

>How do we decide what is commercially viable and what isn't? Can we assume
>that all staterooms will be full on each trip? Do we always fill up the cargo
>hold with freight? What kind of profit can we calculate with if the ship is
>used for speculative trade? how many jumps per year can we assume? How do we
>handle the life support discrepancy? What crew salaries do we pay?

I ran into this problem last night when I was designing my entry into the
THUDD.  Also, an addition to the above questions, how many cargo\passenger
trips per month can a ship do?

I had my costs per month at around KCr150, and, with 10 high passenger suits
(50,000 per journey) plus, I think around 80 tons of cargo space (80,000
according to T4 trade rules), I make Cr130,000 per journey.  How many
journey's can we assume the ship can make per month.

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:24:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Last ISBA

>What we hope to do is bring role playing to the starship creation
>process by taking on the role of companies that produce ships.  There
>will be a general organization created shortly but I hope to open
>membership to all parts of the industry.  Including Government,
>Merchants, Military, Mercenaries ect.  This would allow those who are
>not interested in ship building it self to role play along with the
>rest of us.  As time goes on I want to change this into a PBeM
>campaign.  If you are interested in the idea please drop me a line at 

OOC:  I'd love to join in this, with the starship company I have created.

FIRST PRESS RELEASE

        Today, the Fuzhon Institute for Research in Space Technologies
announced that it would be joining the newly formed ISBA.  Fuzhon sited many
reasons for the decision, not the least of which was the host of
high-profile companies that have joined in the past few days.
        Said, Doctor Robert Fuzhon, director\founder of FIRST, "We at the
Insititute realized that, in the case of the ISBA it appeared we risked
being left behind in the ship building industry, which we cannot afford to
do if we are to continue our academic and commercial operations."
        The decision was not made lightly said Fuzhon, stating that it had
been put to the general school populace in a peblisite, and, after a
resounding yes vote was given, the board of directors, operating on Fuzhon's
proposal unanimously agreed to peition for entrance in the ISBA.

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:35:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] The THUDDD is off! (Far Trader won)

>4) QSDS designers take heed; all those failing to multiply J-drive costs by
>14 in their final USD will be subject to an unpaid internship at the
>Famille Spofulam Product Safety Testing Facility.  This will immediately
>void any life insurance policies you might own.

Multiply by 14! Is this one of the official corrections to QSDS?  I didn't
know this one...it's going to make things cost an awful lot more isn't it?

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: 10 Feb 97 10:11:03 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

- --- Traveller-digest wrote:
Well anyone want to have a go a a FF&S write up of these. I don't want to 
as the mere thought of trying to design anything with FF&S gives me "the 
fear".
- --- end of quote ---
such that you might soil your Technos? Imagine the potential for shorts
PunIntended) if one was...incontinent! ;->

Of course, if you're going to tackle this one, can the Sheep Shearer be far
behind? The mind reels....

------------------------------

Date: 10 Feb 97 10:11:03 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

- --- Traveller-digest wrote:
Well anyone want to have a go a a FF&S write up of these. I don't want to 
as the mere thought of trying to design anything with FF&S gives me "the 
fear".
- --- end of quote ---
such that you might soil your Technos? Imagine the potential for shorts
PunIntended) if one was...incontinent! ;->

Of course, if you're going to tackle this one, can the Sheep Shearer be far
behind? The mind reels....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:06:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Volker A. Greimann wrote:

> Zhodani agents report that Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> -> I do love Trek, and I agree that Voyager lags behind.  But, so did 
> Me too, but i feel that NOTHING that Trek EVER did equals Bab5 in ANY 
> way. Bab5, for me, is Numero Uno!

Maybe I'm missing something...I tuned into Bab 5 for about the whole first
season, and the beginning of the second, in the hope that the script would
improve, or the plots would improve, to no avail.  The characters were
utterly predictable, the Commander was 2-dimensional, and yet the focus of
the story line.  There was one alien who was at least a good actor.  The
special effects were excellent, but not, alone, worth an hour of my time.

I have since tuned in occasionally, without being impressed.  (maybe the
Bruce Willis lookalike turns me off:)

Did 2nd or 3rd season improve that much? or are our tastes just that
different?  I agree, for the record, with all you guys have said about DS9
nad Voyager.  As I've always said, the writing is what counts, and the
scripts for DS9 and Voyager (and TNG in fact!) were quite weak at the
start. 

Am I just an alien?

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 18:09 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

In-Reply-To: <MAPI.Id.0016.00776f6c662020203030303530303035@MAPI.to.RFC822>

> 
> I like the TML header.

If anybody cares, I hate it.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 18:09 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: SF films

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970207232241.12269B-100000@gold.interlog.com>

<< I didn't mind that Mos Eisley scene that much, with the bad Jabba and all.
What I REALLY wish was for them to re-do some of the battle scenes on the
Death Star. >>

According to the info I have, they did.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 18:09 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD voting

In-Reply-To: <199702071529.KAA29521@mag1.magmacom.com>

<< 1) If you have a (say) J4 drive and do a J1, in T4 is all the jump
fuel consumed, or only part of it?

2) If you have a J1 drive and enough fuel for 2 jumps,  can you stop
in an 'empty' map hex enroute? >>

IMO 1/4 of the fuel and yes.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:14:21 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: [TML] Re: Sandcasters

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, John R. Snead wrote:

> In FF&S, on page 56 it says:
> 
> "Each sandcaster also contains a generator which creates a field used to 
> manipulate the location and shape of the cloud of crystals (ie the 
> sand).  At early tech levels, these fields are electromagnetic and 
> require magnetic sand.  More advanced systems supplement, then supplant, 
> the magnetic manipulation with gravitic manipulation..."
> 
> Sounds definative to me, and I like it.   
> 

I don't.

This opens the door to controllable tractor fields, which will have a
significant effect on the designs of starships.

Not to mention being abused by players to no end.

No, I'll stick to my magnetic fields and suffer the consequenses (50
lashes with a wet noodle?)

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:19:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: RR surface area

> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 02:25:44 +0100 (MET)
> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> 
> Someone once told me that ordinary heat sensors ought to be able to detect
> starships at ranges far in excess of the ranges allowed by the Traveller
> ship combat system (don't ask me which one). Is this true?

If the ships dump waste heat at high temperature through a limited surface
area, yes; and this seems to be the canon answer.  It's possible to shed
the same amount of heat at lower temperature through a greater surface
area, but the surface area requirements are truly enormous if you're
shooting for a stealthy IR signature.  This would involve devoting some
significant fraction of ship volume/mass specifically to heat radiators, a
detail which doesn't show up in FFS.

An interesting sidelight:  When Kubrick's production team designed
Discovery for _2001_, they consulted with real aerospace engineers to make
their vessel as plausible as could be managed.  One of the first things
they learned was that their fusion drive would require *big* radiator fins
to shed waste heat.  In the original Discovery model, these were present
as four large rectangular panels projecting off the drive unit at the rear
of the craft.

Well, they showed the resulting sketches to another group of engineers,
all of whom immediately said "It doesn't need fins, it operates in a
vacuum."  Of course, as soon as the heat-exchanger explanation was
provided, they immediately retracted their comments...but Kubrick
(rightly) worried that he'd be accused of "inaccuracy" for putting fins on
his ship.  So, the fins were removed.  This is one of the most charmingly
ironic stories I know. 

> If it is, perhaps
> you should consider using some other dimension (jump-space or sub-space or
> whatever thrusters thrusts against (no, waitaminute, nowadays thrusters
> thrust against gravitational potential or something, don't they?). Anyway,
> use something other than the universe as a heat sink. It may mess up some
> thermodynamic laws a li'l bit, but so what? If sticking to Real Life
> physics means invalidating Really Big Ships then I say stuff Real Life
> physics!

The problem here is that as soon as you introduce new physics, huge
numbers of unexpected possibilities open up, most of which you won't think
of right away.  Example:  T-plates and the near-c-lifeboat planet-wrecker
scenario.  Just for starters, I think that, given an infinite
extradimensional heat sink, I could design a perpetual motion machine that
would run off the cosmic microwave background and generate excess energy
besides.  This might have certain adverse effects on the Traveller
background. :) 

By the way, Asimov's "The Gods Themselves" covers a closely related
idea...it's a bit clunky as a novel, but includes some cool ideas.

> Besides, introducing an extra-dimensional heat sink isn't really messing up
> Real Life physics, is it? It's more like adding to them, right ;-)

Wait...are you saying Traveller isn't Real Life?  Heresy!  *Burn* the
heretic! :)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:20:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers

>This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
>written consent of myself.                              ^^^^

If you're going to inflict annoying disclaimers on the rest of us, at least
proofread them first.  And I, for one, would prefer that posters not junk up
the digests with self-indulgent stuff like that.

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #935
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 10 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 936



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] THUDDD Update...
Re: [TML] Re: THUDD is off.
[TML] Subject Headers
Re: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)
[TML] Extended Sensor and Communicators for CSC
[TML] Re: Annoying Disclaimers
[TML] Tammuz-Karst considering shipyards consortium membership
[TML] Gridlore Technologies joins ISBA!
[TML] Re: RR surface area
Re: [TML] THUDDD Update...
Re: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)
[TML] [ISBA] 
Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers
[TML] Re: things
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] Re: Annoying Disclaimers
Re: [TML] bargain priced J1 drives
[TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Dri
Re: [TML] ISBA
[TML] Re: Sandcasters/Tractor Fields
[TML] 'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries applies for SSBA membership

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:37:20 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] THUDDD Update...

        Ok...  something just occurred to me; can people submitting designs
please include these additional numbers?  While I don't think not doing
this ought to be fatal, it'll certainly give the TML'ers judging the
designs a good idea of the commercial viability of the vessel.

1) Financing costs: as per p.96 of the T4 manual, assume a 20% down
payment, with monthly payments of 1/240th of the cost of the ship for 480
months.  Put in amount of down payment and monthly payment.

2) Monthly crew salary (as per the crew salary table on p.113 of the T4
manual).  For those who don't have the T4 manual, pilots earn 6,000
cr/month, Navigators 5,000 cr/month, Engineers 4,000/month, Medics
2,000/month, and Gunners 1,000 cr/month.

3) Life support costs: 2,000 cr/month per occupied stateroom, 200 cr/month
per low berth (see p.97 T4 manual).

4) Annual maintenance costs: 1/1000th of the total cost of the starship per
annum.  I'd suggest dividing this by 12 to give a monthly figure

5) Maximum revenues: at 4,000 cr/ton, how much revenue will it generate per
trip at 100% capacity?  Likewise, factor in passengers if carried (10,000
cr for a high passage, 8,000 for a medium, and 1,000 for a low passage)

6) Breakeven point: at 4,000 cr/ton, what how many tons of cargo must be
carried  in order to meet the total monthly expenses (monthly payment plus
monthly salaries plus 1/12th of annual maintenance).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:37:30 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: THUDD is off.

Hans Rancke wrote:

>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott writes:
>>Mission Spec:  Near so far as I can tell, a Far Trader must:
>>
>>a) be capable of Jump-2 or higher,
>>
>>b) be commercially viable,
>
>How do we decide what is commercially viable and what isn't? Can we assume
>that all staterooms will be full on each trip? Do we always fill up the cargo
>hold with freight? What kind of profit can we calculate with if the ship is
>used for speculative trade? how many jumps per year can we assume? How do we
>handle the life support discrepancy? What crew salaries do we pay?


        See my previous post...  And as noted below, we'll be getting an
aggretate of people's opinions of the ship's economic soundness in the
voting, which ought to impact the more extreme designs.  I'd suggest just
including the costs & revenue data I recommend in my previous post and
going with that.

        And hey, if it doesn't pan out, recall that this is a beta-THUDDD,
so to speak :).  Wrinkles we encounter in this one can be ironed out and
not repeated in the next one...


>
>>c) affordable by non-megacorp purchasers, and
>
>How much can non-megacorp purchasers afford?


        Well, whatever the TML'ers rating your designs on economic
soundness think they can pay.  That's the beauty of doing this by vote; we
get a sort of "market" value for this sort of thing...


>
>>d) since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max.
>
>Can we interpolate non-standard QSDS parts? If we do, do we assume they cost
>full price or do we assume that our design will be built in quantities large
>enough to get the 25% discount anyway?


        No interpolation of non-standard QSDS parts; from what I gather,
that's contra to that system's modularity.  Using multiple small parts
(like power plants) to get closer to what you need isn't verboten
(wildstar, correct me if I'm wrong on this).


>
>Can we use many small power plants or do we have to use the smallest number
>needed to get the desired wattage?
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:11:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: [TML] Subject Headers

Ok, we have had a weekend to see what the subject
headers look like.  Starting now, you can mail your
vote, preferablly with a subject of:

VOTE: YES  

or

VOTE: NO

and in the body, place any commentary desired and mail
to rwm@mpgn.com

I will make a decision based on the results of the poll
by Thursday Noon EST.  Oh, only your last vote counts!


Thanks
Rob
- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com
for webmaster@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:02:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

On Mon, 10 Feb 1997, Andrew Boulton wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <MAPI.Id.0016.00776f6c662020203030303530303035@MAPI.to.RFC822>
> > 
> > I like the TML header.
> 
> If anybody cares, I hate it.
> 

I hate it, too.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:27:45 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] Extended Sensor and Communicators for CSC

Well here is some extended ranges for sensors and communicators for CSC/VDS

Sensors                               Tech Level						
Range Km      Power   Cost  6   7    8    10    12    14    16    18     20
3,000,000     100     20    33  19   11   6.3   2.1   0.7   0.25  0.05   0.03
30,000,000    1,000   57        33   19   11    6.3   2.1   0.7   0.25   0.05
300,000,000   10,000  162            33   19    11    6.3   2.1   0.7    0.25
3,000,000,000 100,000 461                 33    19    11    6.3   2.1    0.7

Vehicle Communicators                 Tech Level						
Range Km      Power   Cost  6   7    8    10    12    14    16    18     20
3,000,000     100     0.27      0.7  0.4  0.25  0.1   0.05  0.01  0.001
0.0001
30,000,000    1000    0.81           0.7  0.3   0.15  0.1   0.05  0.01   0.001
300,000,000   10000   2.43                0.7   0.3   0.15  0.1   0.05   0.01
3,000,000,000 100000  7.29                      0.7   0.3   0.15  0.1    0.05

Samll Vehicle Communicators           Tech Level					
Range Km      Power   Cost  6   7    8    10    12    14    16    18     20
3,000,000     1       0.135     0.07 0.03 0.015 0.01  0.005 0.001 0.0001
0.0001
30,000,000    10      0.405          0.07 0.03  0.015 0.01  0.005 0.001
0.0001
300,000,000   100     1.215               0.07  0.03  0.015 0.01  0.005  0.001
3,000,000,000 1000    3.645                     0.07  0.03  0.015 0.01   0.005

Below are some attempts at naming the extended ranges:
                                Combat Hexes(30,000km)
Far Orbit       300,000         10
Extreme Orbit   3,000,000       100
Planetary       30,000,000      1000
Interplanetary  300,000,000     10000
SubStellar      3,000,000,000   100000

Why extended ranges well the tasks get easier see below:

Target          |Sensor Ranges
Range           |Extreme Orbit   Planetary   Interplanetary   SubStellar
Continent       |Easy            Easy        Easy             Easy
Orbital         |Average         Easy        Easy             Easy
Far orbit       |Difficult       Average     Easy             Easy
Extreme Orbit   |Formidable      Difficult   Average          Easy
Planetary       |Formidable      Formidable  Difficult        Average
Interplanetary  |Staggering      Formidable  Formidable       Difficult
SubStellar      |Staggering      Staggering  Formidable       Formidable


All for know, let me know what you think.
Donning Obscenium Suit for flaming protection.<g>

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net


























  

	 	
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:26:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Annoying Disclaimers

> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:20:10 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
> 
> >This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
> >written consent of myself.                              ^^^^
> 
> If you're going to inflict annoying disclaimers on the rest of us, at least
> proofread them first.  And I, for one, would prefer that posters not junk up
> the digests with self-indulgent stuff like that.

I don't know, this one gave me a great deal of welcome amusement.  I could
never decide which was the intent:

    "Unless you obtain written consent from me, you are *obligated* to
     publish this message."
or
    "You may publish this message if and only if you do not obtain my
     written permission to do so."

Either way, it's kind of cool, in a Hoftstadterian way.  Especially the
latter, of course.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:48:15 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: [TML] Tammuz-Karst considering shipyards consortium membership

The Tammuz-Karst Group, manufacturer of diverse starships for the
Sylean and now Imperial Navy and civlian applications, is considering
joining the recently announced Imperium Ship Builders Association.
Best known for the 800-ton Kazani Station class TK-91 Imperial Landing Ship
and its civilian derivative the TK-92 Port Usdiki, TK has also diversified
in recent years into small craft and a growing R&D arm working on advanced
starship systems and concepts.

TK Chairman Ian Karst has been vocal in urging better cooperation among
shipyards to lower costs via standardized designs and systems and will
be attending the forthcoming ISBA meetings.  Executive Vice President
and Chief Naval Architect Christaphos Lompoc has in the past echoed
those statements but was unavailable for comment at the time of this
press conference due to ongoing test operations of prototype spacecraft.

During the announcement, Karst stated that he hoped ISBA would form
several committees to work on specific areas of systems standardization,
spacecraft safety, and commercial designs.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:14:18 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: [TML] Gridlore Technologies joins ISBA!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Sir Arameth Gridlore, President and CEO of Gridlore Technolgies, today
announced GT's intention to join the ISBA.  Speaking from his personal ship,
the *Estimated Profit*, Sir Arameth offered praise for the founders of the
new association.

"The ISBA challenges us with new levels of both cooperation and competiton,
as we move forward into the new Imperial Era.  We at GT remain focused on
personal items, but we see a great potential for our new starship branch."

This brief announcement was followed by the unveiling of the imprint of the
new organization.  To be called Trans-C, the recently formed company will
act only as naval architects, and will control no ship building facilities.

When questioned by a reporter about his recent remarks concering the killing
of Marines with rocks, Sir arameth abrubtly cut the connection, ending the
interview.  The *Estimated Profit* left orbit shortly thereafter, and jumped
to an undisclosed location.

- -30-


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:43:29 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: [TML] Re: RR surface area

Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:19:40 -0800 (PST),  Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
>It's possible to shed
>the same amount of heat at lower temperature through a greater surface
>area, but the surface area requirements are truly enormous if you're
>shooting for a stealthy IR signature.

Note: At the TL that Traveller works at, it's not unreasonable
that they could get rid of the excess heat by actively transmitting
the energy at selected wavelenths  (say against the background
black body radiation) and perhaps even only at selected
directions.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 17:44:26 PST
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@conterra.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDDD Update...

> 2) Monthly crew salary (as per the crew salary table on p.113 of the T4
> manual).  For those who don't have the T4 manual, pilots earn 6,000
> cr/month, Navigators 5,000 cr/month, Engineers 4,000/month, Medics
> 2,000/month, and Gunners 1,000 cr/month.

What level of experience are the crew members?  Do we have to calculate
bonuses?

> 
> 3) Life support costs: 2,000 cr/month per occupied stateroom, 200 cr/month
> per low berth (see p.97 T4 manual).

Cost for staterooms are 2,000cr/ (two weeks) see p.97 T4 manual not
2,000/month.
 
> 4) Annual maintenance costs: 1/1000th of the total cost of the starship
per
> annum.  I'd suggest dividing this by 12 to give a monthly figure
> 
> 5) Maximum revenues: at 4,000 cr/ton, how much revenue will it generate
per
> trip at 100% capacity?  Likewise, factor in passengers if carried (10,000
> cr for a high passage, 8,000 for a medium, and 1,000 for a low passage)

4,000 cr/ton is the cost to purchased cargo not to ship it.  The 4,000/ton
shipping is incorrect on page 97, the chart on page 113 shows 1,000cr/ton
revenue for shipping and is in line with previous editions of Traveller.
(another example of typos)

If the Far Trader is armed do we calculate income including carrying 5tons
of mail for 25,000cr?

What % of stateroom occupancy?

JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:57:29 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Subject Headings for Traveller)

At 06:09 PM 2/10/97 GMT0, Andrew wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <MAPI.Id.0016.00776f6c662020203030303530303035@MAPI.to.RFC822>

>> 
>> I like the TML header.
>
>If anybody cares, I hate it.

Put me in the "I don't mind it" column

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:58:07 -0800
From: Mark Ayers <mark@bbic.com>
Subject: [TML] [ISBA] 

The Right Honorable Bertrand Lord Worcester, Baron of Rotaer, Knight 
Commander of the Order of Retlif announced today the subsidiary involvement 
of the shipyards at Rotaer in the endeavor know as Imperial Shipbuilder's 
Association. [ISBA]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:58:55 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers

At 01:20 PM 2/10/97 -0500, "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
>
>>This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
>>written consent of myself.                              ^^^^
>
>If you're going to inflict annoying disclaimers on the rest of us, at least
>proofread them first.  And I, for one, would prefer that posters not junk up
>the digests with self-indulgent stuff like that.
>
>Joe Saul
>jmsaul@umich.edu
>
Ahh thank you Joe for pointing that out. 

My disclaimer is sig. If you wish a signature less list put it to a vote.
That is what is going to decided about the headers [TML].

The reason I have such a sig disclaimer is because IG
borrowed/stole/violated a article that was posted to the Internet and
published it in JTAS. They did not have the article author's consent prior
to publishing it. He found out by reading his copy of JTAS. Gee what a
surprise!!! From what I understand they were able to work it out afterward
but I have not heard anymore on it. The JTAS seemed to say that if was on
the Internet it was ok to publish without paying for it or getting the
author's permission. IMOH they were very wrong!!! I do not care for that to
happen to anything I post to the Internet so the disclaimer.

I vote for a list with signatures.

If anything just to keep the digests all junked up. <G> ;-)

Sinbad Sam
"AI(Anally Inverted) Virus Black Curtain Rod Holder 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published without express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:30:16 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: things

> The Fuzzy books (especially the fuzzy burglars)

Ah yes, those cute two foot tall Fuzzy's..  Just make sure
you're on their side in a battle.  I'd really like to see another
novel written about the Fuzzy's.  The one tidbit about their
origins just wasn't enough.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:10:18 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

 >From what I've read of some of the telephone industry press, the problem
> appears to be that the average call duration used as a network design
basis
> is approx 5-10 min. Now, in a heavily used exchange, a small number of
> Internet using (esp WWW) customers can screw their calcs by taking up
> bandwidth and resulting in busy tones for other customers. So the
companies
> face installing extra bandwidth (which hits their bottom line) or
charging
> premium rates (which either ups profits to support investment, or
> discourages heavy use).

You know, it seems to me that this was brought on by the phone companies
inability to see the possible future of the internet (and mostly WWW)
exploding
into existence within a few short years.  Back in the early eighties the
phone 
company (AT&T) was touting ISDN as the future of the telephone network.  
The problem is that it was never introduced as a widely available system. 
This 
was probably due in part to the breakup of AT&T along with the fact that
ISDN
is more complex, requires more parts on the subscriber side, and was very
much more expensive.

The phone companies now want to stick the cost of access to the customer
because they couldn't conceive of anybody needing any more bandwidth 
than they already had (and these were the same people that wanted to use
video phones, sheesh).

I have to agree with them on one issue however.  There are too many people
connecting to the internet on non-dedicated dialup lines and staying on for

days without using the line.  I also have mixed feelings about the Web, it
really
is kinda cool, but it is the single biggest bandwidth hog around.  Of
course 
I'm a little biased, since I've been had internet access since about 1990.

Just my two centicredits..

Eric Freitas
edf@atlantic.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:06:38 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Annoying Disclaimers

At 01:26 PM 2/10/97 -0800, Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:20:10 -0500 (EST)
>> From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
>> 
>> >This message, in part or in total, may not be published with express
>> >written consent of myself.                              ^^^^
>> 
>> If you're going to inflict annoying disclaimers on the rest of us, at least
>> proofread them first.  And I, for one, would prefer that posters not
junk up
>> the digests with self-indulgent stuff like that.
>
>I don't know, this one gave me a great deal of welcome amusement.  I could
>never decide which was the intent:
>
>    "Unless you obtain written consent from me, you are *obligated* to
>     publish this message."
>or
>    "You may publish this message if and only if you do not obtain my
>     written permission to do so."
>
>Either way, it's kind of cool, in a Hoftstadterian way.  Especially the
>latter, of course.
>

Craig,

I like the way you looked my error/gaff/fudge/oops. I like the first one
though.
<G> ;-P

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@dfw.net
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published without express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee for access.

PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:12:24 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] bargain priced J1 drives

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
> >The Tech Level that the Jump Drive is built at should affect it's cost, as
> >well.  I would think jump-1 drives would become less expensive as the
> >current level of technology moves up to jump-2 and jump-3.
> 
>   It used to be possible to finesse/scam this effect using the
> "Relative Value Table" in TCS, Striker boxed set, and I believe
> also a JTAS.  Just order a J1 drive from a TL 9 world to install
> at your TL 12 shipyard, and compare the 0.70 : 0.85 value ratio,
> and then count your savings after shipping, handling, customs,
> piracy, bribery, and entertaining sales reps...
>         Steven Hudson


I dunno...it might be awfully difficult to mesh such disparate
(word for the day) TLs; kinda like trying to get a vacuum
tube-based television set to be hooked up to a modern, high-end
personal computer as a monitor. One, maybe two, levels' difference
between TLs may be feasible but more than that would, IMO, require
a tremendous amount of work (and corresponding costs) at a
shipyard to make it all work together. Assuming, that is, the
shipyard manager can be convinced to give it a try.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 00:26:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Dri

> My take is that it is a system of producing power over a very short
> time tightly coupled so that the power goes right into the jump field.
> Producing the jump field is a huge sink that the energy goes into so
> you don't have to find a way of storing all that energy the way you
> would if you were going to use it for something else.
    It's got to be a LOT of energy that's being soaked up.  Remember to that at
the level of technological competence we're talking about fusion reactors
producing enough energy to supply cities of millions with a cup of water.  At
least that's the current promise of fusion.  And that's a LOT of energy.

> I always pictured them as sources that operate at only a fraction of
> the efficiency of a "normal" power plant but are used because they
> can produce high outputs for short periods.
    Efficiency, I'd never thought of that!  That would make a lot of sense,
especially when you're talking about fusing TONS hydrogen in minutes!  I mean
think about all those clips of nuclear bombs going off.  You get that kind of
power production with a few ATOMS!!!  Now you're going to fuse TONS!!!
    But efficiency would have an impact, if FoEx say half of it is being used
to cool the reactor as a heat sink perhaps?  Could one of the physics folks
figure out the energy production we're talking about here?  Your typical
Scout/Courier is fusing 10 tons of hydrogen in twenty minutes or so for the
jump.  How much energy is that?  To fuse ten tons of hydrogen?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:22:49 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] ISBA

Colin Hollands wrote:
> 
> EuroAmerican Peoples State Spacelines, will gladly filch, er I mean Join
> the Peoples Ship Design collective, (I'm Playing around Sol, at Milleu 0),
> 
> By the way does anybody have maps of space as at milleu zero, something
> like Andy House's Scout Survey, doe's anybody have Andy's URL (I had a
> virus and lost my system with all usefull information as well as the crud)
> and what period is The scout survey set.

Andy's Survey is found at:
http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu/~indy/sectors/sectors.html

As for the rest,...(shrug)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:36:55 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Sandcasters/Tractor Fields

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
<snippage of sandcaster details>
> > Sounds definative to me, and I like it.
> >
> 
> I don't.
> 
> This opens the door to controllable tractor fields, which will have a
> significant effect on the designs of starships.

At very high TLs, semi-controllable tractor fields are a fact in MT
and TNE. However, at the TL of introduction, they aren't all that
useful because of a very limited range. This TL, BTW, is around
16-17. Definitely *not* an issue in M0.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:51:13 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: [TML] 'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries applies for SSBA membership

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(Sylea) - 'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries today announced its formal 
application for associate membership in the Sylean Ship Builders 
Association (SSBA*). If granted, this would be the first time a major race 
starship manufacturer has joined the fledgling SSBA.

	Rookr!'ng!'koop, the K'kree Trade Liaison from the Two Thousand World's 
embassy, stated that  'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries felt that by joining 
the SSBA it could help to guide human shipbuilding practices and 
philosophies to the superior K'kree models, and to help to create a demand 
for K'kree goods and workmanship.

	'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries also shocked the small Sylean shipbuilding 
community by declaring that starting in the year 0002 it would begin 
importing, in co-operation with Rr!!krmiixt Interface Lines, and the 
Embassy of the Two Thousand Worlds on Sylea, surplus K'kree shuttles, 
modified for human interstellar use. Altough this is in planning stages 
right now, the first design to be imported in expected to fit in the human 
"far trader" classification.

	Rookr!'ng!'koop stated "We expect that these vessels, although far too 
small and technically inferior for the K'kree market, will be greatly in 
demand for their superior workmanship. These vessels will be far superior 
to anything presently available in the Sylean marketplace, and this will be 
reflected in the price.".

	Negoatiations with the Sylean Trade Bureau continue to allow 
'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries products access to the Sylean market with a 
fair and equitable tariff rate. These negotiations are optimistically 
expected to conclude by the end of the year.

###

* NOTE - the Two Thousand Worlds does not recognize the fledgling Sylean 
Federation's claim to be the successor to the Vilani Empire / Rule of Man. 
The Steppelord of the Two Thousand Worlds feels that Cleon's declaration of 
Empire to be far too rash, and will only recognize it when it is proven in 
the fullness of time.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #936
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 11 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 937



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
[TML] ISBA, and a request.
[TML] Re: THUDD Far Trader specs
Re: [TML] Last ISBA
[TML] VJL to form Shipyard Division
[TML] CDB-1: Famille Spofulam's THUDDD entry...
[TML] Pan-Imperia a Reality
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
[TML] Where to find QSDS spreadsheet?
[TML] J-fuel
[TML] QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
[TML] Re: QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!
[TML] Re: THUDD question
[TML] Grav scanner handwaving
[TML] Bertling Construction Company joins ISBA
Re: [TML] J-fuel
[TML] Sumer lost Vilani colony
Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek
Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?
Re: [TML] Starships is broken (surprise, surprise)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:41:51 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> Maybe I'm missing something...I tuned into Bab 5 for about the whole first
> season, and the beginning of the second, in the hope that the script would
> improve, or the plots would improve, to no avail.  The characters were
> utterly predictable, the Commander was 2-dimensional, and yet the focus of
> the story line.  There was one alien who was at least a good actor.  The
> special effects were excellent, but not, alone, worth an hour of my time.
> 
> Am I just an alien?

Nope. My wife and I watched the opening of the series with great
anticipation and gave up in disgust within 20 minutes. We both agree
with your assessments above. Although I also have tuned in occasionally
in the hopes of improvement, I'm still disappointed. Great special
effects don't do squat for what I perceive as poor acting overall
and bad writing.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:57:45 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: [TML] ISBA, and a request.

HI all. Sorry I've been rather quite the past month or so (as if any of you 
even noticed I was gone :-) ).

I'm quickly putting together 'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries entry into the 
THUDDD contest. BTW, I really like the ISBA posts. Personally, I enjoy 
in-character interactions, and would gladly play in any kind of PBEM series 
revolving around these posts.

I also have a request. I went through a few times to try and translate some 
of the old K'kree designs from Alien Module 2 into SSDS designs. I was 
quickly stumper by the fact that most of them took 6000 dtn hulls. I dug 
out FF&S, but gave up in disgust after an hour (funny, thats how ALL my 
attempts at using FF&S seem to end). So, could anyone create a 6000 dtn 
SSDS flattened sphere hull for me, and either e-mail it to me at 
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca, or post it to the list?

Yeah, I know QSDS/SSDS only go up to 5000 tons, but I figure it can stretch 
to 6000 without too much trouble.

K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:06:38 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD Far Trader specs

> 4.since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max. 

Shouldn't a commercial vessel be at most TL-11 in Milieu 0.  I had thought
that TL-12 was max Imperium military Tech level and TL-11 was max Imperium
civilian tech.  BTW are QSDS and SDSS the only acceptable design systems or
does anyone mind if
I go ahead and use T4 compliant FF&S.

Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 23:09:47 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Last ISBA

Tim Reynolds wrote:
> 
> Part III
> ** Role playing off **
> 
> Here is the list of the first members to respond
> 
> Andrew Vallance:                  Phoenix Corporation
> Rodrroch Elliot:                     Famille Spofulam
> JD Burdick:                            FeZUnA
> Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett:     LTD -- Luwas, Tsefe, and Drummond
> Derek WildStar                      Arcadia Shipyards
> Rich Ostoreo                          FREEDOM STARSHIPS
> Shadowcat                              Maximus Defense Industries Tim
> Reynolds                         Founder Ship Works Bill Prankard
>                     X Tech Industries
> 
Welcome on line the high quality products of Mused Shipyards
We specialize in custom craft of great quality

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:02:21 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [TML] VJL to form Shipyard Division

A GNN Corporate News Report   049-000:

     VJL Announces Starship Division

(Hazan, CORE) In a press conference today Darius Sadri, 
President of United Freight and Passenger Workers Union,
announced that the board of the UFPWU have drawn up plans to create
a new starship construction firm, Pan-Imperia Shipyards. 

"This extraordinary meeting of the board was called in response to the
recent anti-free trade maneuvering of the major ship builders." Sadri said.
"In particular, recent remarks by representatives of Famille Spofulam that
the ISBA has been founded ' to present a common front against the
organized labour movement [and] developing more *optimal* common
pricing agreements' clearly are evidence of collusion, price-fixing, anti-
worker conspiracy, and the attempt at making the Free Trade and 
Travel that we have known as journeyman spacefarers a thing of the 
past. We will be placing the decision of the board before the entire 
membership of the UFPWU for a vote in the coming weeks and feel
certain that Pan-Imperia will become a certainty with every ship load of
returns from the sector branches that arrive. Pan-Imperia will strive to
uphold the ideals of VJL to provide economical service and quality to
the citizens of the new Imperium as the only fully-employee owned 
shipyard in current existence.

"Only by cutting out the middle man can
space travel be truly economical and worthwhile for the average 
citizen. I urge the Imperial Ministry of Economic Benevolence to begin
investigations into the intentions and practices of the ISBA; can any sentient
being truly be expected to believe that the founding of the ISBA the very
same week that jump drive prices shot up an incredible 1400% be sheer
coincidence!?"

Current plans indicate Pan-Imperia is scouting out older yards and facilities
to buy out with membership funds as the core of its manufacturing and
design hub. It is expected that the majority of the membership of UFPWU
will agree to the prospectus. If so, 95% of the initial owner-operators will be
Pilots and affiliated staff of ValuJump Lines (VJL). ValuJump has gained 
a recent level of notoriety with their popular practice of no-frills space 
travel, epitomized by a recent ad slogan "So Economical, You'll Think 
You're Part of the Crew!"(tm) 

Members of the ISBA could not be reached at press time.

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"Where a Berth's a Berth"(tm)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:43:41 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] CDB-1: Famille Spofulam's THUDDD entry...

        Figured I'd throw this one out to the list as an example of how I
think THUDDD entries ought to be put together.  I will not be entering it
in the running for the biscuit, out of a highly developed sense of conflict
of interest, but here you all go anyhow.

Secondly, I figure that with one week in jump and one week turnaround time
(land, unload passengers and cargo, load cargo and passengers, depart) you
can do two trips/month.  Let's use these as the official THUDDD figures.

Third, in the financial information, I've put in the total monthly cost of
running the vessel at full occupancy.  Obviously, if staterooms and low
berths are going unoccupied, the crew can cut off life support in order to
lower costs.  However, I chose not to take this into account in calculating
the breakeven point, just to keep it simple.

Finally, I have no bloody idea how whoever did the ship designs for the T4
manual got a result of 31 Mcr for the cost of the Far Trader; the cost of a
J-2 drive in SSDS costs more than that all by itself.

        Anyhow, enough kvetching.  Here it is.  Hope you all like it:



Famille Spofulam Yards Coureur Des Bois-1 class Far Trader (SSDS)

Tons: 200 Std (Disk S/L)  Volume: 2800 m^3                   Cost: 69.6 MCr
Crew: 4                   High/Mid Pass: 6                   Low: 6
Cargo: 76 Std             Controls: TL12 Hi auto (Bridge)    TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (280 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 2,000 T/Thr)
01x 95 mj Civ Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0     0.75 Power Plant (1x 75Mw)
                                      40 Fuel (Scoop 16, Refine 50)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      01 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 01 Pilot, 01 Navigator, 01 Gunner/Steward, 01 Engineer.

Financial information:

Down payment: 13.92 Mcr
Monthly payment: 290 Kcr
Monthly crew salaries: 16 Kcr
Monthly life support costs: 20,600 Kcr at full occupancy
Annual maintenance costs: 69.6 Kcr per annum, 5.8 Kcr per month
Total monthly costs: 332.4 Kcr
Maximum monthly revenues: 740 Kcr (at 304 Kcr from cargo,  60 Kcr from 6
High passengers, 6 Kcr from 6 Low passengers, for 370 Kcr a trip at full
capacity times 2 trips per month).
Breakeven point: One trip per month, with cargo hold full, with 3 High
passengers and 3 Low passengers and the ship will make a negligible profit
(about 600 cr).

Press Release, Sylea Year 0 Day 41

Famille Spofulam Yards is pleased to announce the release of its Coureur
Des Bois-1 class Far Trader.  It scores a number of firsts for FSY: first
ship to accellerate at under 3G, first ship to cost under 170 MCR, and
first mass market general-purpose trading vessel.

        The CDB-1 is designed with an eye to the bottom line; while still
offering the purchaser the famed Famille Spofulam quality and attention to
detail, it nevertheless is relatively inexpensive and is capable of turning
profits of up to 407.6 Kcr a month.  Powered by a 75 Mw Zhunastu Fusion
Systems power plant, with Famille Spofulam Subsystems Thruster plate and
Jump drives, it is capable of Jump-2 performance and 1 G accelleration.  At
current rates, its 76 displacement ton cargo hold, six large passenger
staterooms for High or Medium passengers and six low berths practically
guarantee profitable operation along the Imperial mains.  In case its
owners wish it to venture further afield, it is also armoured, and capable
of self-defense with a 95 mj Ling Standard civilian laser mounted in a
small turret.

 The CDB-1 is built into a sleek 200 TD streamlined superdense disk hull, 4
meters high by 29.85 meters in diameter.  and features a single-deck
vertically-oriented layout.  While this would normally preclude the need
for inertial compensators, the direction of thrust being vertical relative
to the decks (a result of FSY's "inherent safety" design philosophy), a 3G
inertial compensation system is built in, thereby offering the ultimate in
travelling comfort; even in lateral, edge-on flight during atmospheric
operations the CDB-1's ride is ultra-smooth.  Obviously, during
exo-atmospheric operations or  vertical landings the CDB-1 travels top
first, rather like a thrown pie.

        The CBD-1 is laid out as follows: right forward  (at twelve
o'clock) is a small but well-laid out bridge for the pilot and navigator,
featuring twin recumbent ergonomic acceleration couches in its two
workstations.  Immediately to clockwise, viewed from above, lies an 84
cubic meter lounge and dining area, with floor-to-ceiling panoramic ports.
The crew cabins (four small staterooms), are placed along the rim of the
hull down a curving corridor leading aft.  The six low berths are located
in a compartment at the end of this corridor.

        A corridor running counterclockwise, beginning at the lounge,
passes aft of the bridge.  Engineering is located aft of the bridge across
this corridor; power plant, gravitic generators for the thruster plates,
and the jump drive reactor are located here, along with an engineer's
workstation and access to the turret and cargo hold.  Further down the
corridor to counterclockwise lie the six large passenger staterooms,
likewise placed along the rim of the hull to allow the best possible view
through floor-to-ceiling panoramic ports.

        The 76 displacement ton cargo hold is located immediately aft of
the engineering compartment, with cargo doors opening right aft at the 6
o'clock position.  Fuel tankage occupies the rest of the interior volume of
the vessel.  Finally, the thruster plates and the laser turret are located
on the underside of the hull.  The placement of the laser turret was
dictated by the non-combatant nature of the CDB-1; it is expected to be
avoiding combat, not charging into it, and this requires the ability to
fire upon targets while accellerating away from them.  This concept was
first developed for the FSY Moufette-Rapide Far Courier.

        FSY expects that the CDB-1 will serve to meet the growing demand
for trading vessels in the young Imperium, and believes that they will come
to be ubiquitous wherever Imperial merchants venture in search of profits.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:31:04 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [TML] Pan-Imperia a Reality

A GNN Corporate News Report   065-000:

     Pan-Imperia a Reality

(Hazan, CORE) Darius Sadri, president of the UFPWU announced in a 
press release today the foundation of Pan-Imperia Shipyards and Services.
"The initial votes have arrived via fast courier" Sadri was quoted, "and 
the near-unanimity of the results have surprised even me. With the
consent of the membership assured, we may now finalize negotiations
to purchase several idle shipyards for refurbishment and activation. I have
no doubts that this will take a minimum amount of time with the enthusiastic
efforts of the membership supplying a truly staggering variety of skills to
the task. It just goes to show you what a Feudal Technocracy can accom-
plish when the people so will it!"

Pan-Imperia Shipyards and Services becomes the first subsidiary of 
ValuJump Lines, an economy passenger and freight service headquartered
at PaNaJay City, Hazan, CORE. VJL's stock went up 7 points to Cr 27 a 
share on the CSE upon word of the press release.


**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"Where a Berth's a Berth"(tm)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 23:29:23 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

>Maybe I'm missing something...I tuned into Bab 5 for about the whole first
>season, and the beginning of the second, in the hope that the script would
>improve, or the plots would improve, to no avail.  The characters were
>utterly predictable, the Commander was 2-dimensional, and yet the focus of
>the story line.  There was one alien who was at least a good actor.  The
>special effects were excellent, but not, alone, worth an hour of my time.

I agree that the first two seasons were slow starting, but if you'd seen 
any of season 3, you'd *know* that the characters are *not* two 
dimensional. Many are in the process of going through *major* changes in 
season 3. Though I found B5 interesting in seasons 1 & 2, Season 3 
absolutely *hooked* me -- The story arc really took off. IMHO, B5 is the 
epitome of Sci-fi drama on the small screen. What a drag my local station 
dropped it >:-<

>I have since tuned in occasionally, without being impressed.  (maybe the
>Bruce Willis lookalike turns me off:)

I assume you're referring to Garibaldi. What I sometimes have trouble 
with is his right hand man, Bobby -- er, I mean, Zach. I guess I've seen 
too many Taxi reruns... :-)

>Did 2nd or 3rd season improve that much? or are our tastes just that
>different?  I agree, for the record, with all you guys have said about DS9
>nad Voyager.  As I've always said, the writing is what counts, and the
>scripts for DS9 and Voyager (and TNG in fact!) were quite weak at the
>start. 

Oy, YES! The 2nd & 3rd seasons improved *phenomonanally*. In fact, the 
producer and writer of the series, J. Michael Strazinski (SP?) set a 
record for writing in a television series: though there were several 
writers for the first two seasons, JMS wrote *all* the episodes in season 
3. The third season was pivotal in his story arc, IIRC, no other writer 
has *ever* written all the episodes for one year of *any* television 
series.

BTW, I have been impressed with the recent episodes of DS9. They've been 
pretty good, and much improved from the early episodes, it's becoming my 
favorite Trek incarnation (can't touch B5 with a 10 meter bat'leth, 
tho'). Voyager has been, well,  how can I put it delicately? It sortof 
like takes the worst of the "cheeze" factor from the Original Series and 
mixes it with the worst of the "wuss" factor of the Next Generation. But 
it has its moments.

>Am I just an alien?

Is there some kind of test you can take?

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:45:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: [TML] Where to find QSDS spreadsheet?

Hi, all,

Seeing all this shipbuilding on the TML has reactivated my long-slumbering
naval architect personality, and I'm gathering my tools and wits to join
the fun.  With any luck, I'll be shepherding my poor yet dishonest design
bureau into the ISBA in no time.  But, just to get started...where might I
find the much-discussed QSDS and/or SSDS spreadsheets?  Hate to reinvent
the wheel...damn thing usually comes out hexagonal.  Thanks in advance!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:11:54 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: [TML] J-fuel

	
	Ok all you travller Gurus out there here is a idea I been toying with.
Due to the fact that Jump fuel takes up 10% displacement per ship per jump,
alot of space is used up(ok I know its stating the obvious but wait) on all
ships.
So what if you kept the Lhyd under pressure?it lowers the space and still
lets you keep the same amount. This may not be a good idea for war ships but
all of those Free,Far,Fat traders out there can make a lot more in the
process of a days opps weeks work. I dont pretend to know alot about this
type of thing but I'm sure some on here does. If this is a workable idea what
whoud the compression rates be?

Victor aka Tbsvt@aol.com
"What are you talking about Hiver Warbots that's absurd .... RUN!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 01:29:47 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!

QSDS version 1.5 is NOW AVAILABLE at http://www.qrc.com/~wildstar/qsds/

I'm pleased to announce that QSDS 1.5 is now available, in plenty of time
for the first THUDDD competition.  This is NOT the much-talked-about
"Version 2" - this is the same QSDS, but with all known errors (including
the drive costs) ruthlessly eliminated.  Also, I've updated the USD
description to match the new uSD format, and made corresponding changes
to many of the tables.

I had originally hoped to avoid doing another revision of QSDS 1.x, in favor
of producing the new "version 2" sooner.  However, it looks like it'll be at
least another week before any sort of playtest edition of QSDS 2.0 is ready.
Given that many people want to use QSDS for the THUDDD competition, I
thought a new version might be appreciated.

Currently QSDS 1.5 is available in Microsoft Word 95 (this is the "native"
format of the document), Microsoft Word 2, Adobe Acrobat, and HTML versions.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:59:09 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

> Maybe I'm missing something...I tuned into Bab 5 for about the whole first
> season, and the beginning of the second, in the hope that the script would
> improve, or the plots would improve, to no avail.  

Strange.  I too tuned in to B5 the first show (pilot), and I couldn't 
get through it.  Then I saw a few more from first season, and I just 
didn't like it.

Then I tuned in again and caught the first episode of season two--and 
I liked it.  So, I watched a few more episodes, and before long, I 
was hooked.

The show is just incredible.  Things planted in one season are 
explained two seasons later.  Character development is just 
incredible too.  Take the Narns.  When we first saw them they were 
your typical Klingon-like bad guys.  Then the Centauri decimated 
their homeworld with mass drivers (how's that for a Traveller 
connection?) and turned it into slag...and the Narns have come from 
your two dimensional baddies to very noble and credible allies with a 
deep religion and brave hearts.

Give bab a shot.  Give it a few shows.  You'll probably get hooked.  
But, you'd better hurry.  B5 is a totally concieved show--from start 
to finish.  It will only run for 5 seasons, and we are in the fourth 
right now.  There is talk of another B5 series, one featuring the 
rangers, but that will take place during the time before and 
concurrent with the series.

TNT is also in negotiations to make two made for cable movies about 
B5.  

I remember when I told my gaming group about B5.  Their anwers were, 
"I can't get past the guy with the hair sticking straight up."

Well, when I first started watching the show, I thought he was dumb 
looking too.  But as you get to know the characters, and the Centauri 
as a race, it makes perfect sense for their hair to stand up like 
napoleonic peacocks.

Trust me.  B5 is something to get excited about.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:57:08 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!

> QSDS version 1.5 is NOW AVAILABLE at http://www.qrc.com/~wildstar/qsds/
> 
> I'm pleased to announce that QSDS 1.5 is now available, in plenty of time
> for the first THUDDD competition.  This is NOT the much-talked-about
> "Version 2" - this is the same QSDS, but with all known errors (including
> the drive costs) ruthlessly eliminated.  Also, I've updated the USD
> description to match the new uSD format, and made corresponding changes
> to many of the tables.

Guy, is it deliberate that the cost of jump drives are now MCr4.2 per ton
instead of just 4? If it's deliberate, why this minor change? Does it
really add anything to the rules and/or background? Do I really have to
go over the ten designs I went over last night and correct all my figures
once more? Are you having fun? Are you trying to drive me nuts? Why are you
doing this to me? AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

[There will be a short musical interlude while I have a little breakdown.]

Tell me you just forgot that dividing 4 by 14 and rounding off to 0.3 and 
then multiplying by 14 is a BAD idea... No bisquit for you, my boy.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:20:41 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: THUDD question

Peter J. Miller asks:

>How many journey's can we assume the ship can make per month.

For independent traders bumming around, we should propably stick to the 25
trips per year that the rules imply. That would give them rougly 5 days on
each planet to find passengers, freight, and cargo. For sceduled traders,
freighters, and liners we can assume that there is a steady supply so that
they can start loading almost as soon as they have discharged what they
brought. I suggest 35 jumps/year if they travel surface-to-surface and
40/year if they travel jump limit-to-jump limit.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:38:01 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: [TML] Grav scanner handwaving

>At very high TLs, semi-controllable tractor fields are a fact in MT
>and TNE. However, at the TL of introduction, they aren't all that
>useful because of a very limited range. This TL, BTW, is around
>16-17. Definitely *not* an issue in M0.

In my campaign the mass detectors/grav scanners work somewhat like this:
The sensor is actually a VERY weak tractor beam. The pull it generates is
proportional to it's power consumtion and inversely proportional to the
square of the range. By measuring the power consumtion (voltage drop
actually) a measurement can be made of the mass inside its field. On higher
TLs (16-17) they are developed into useful tractors. One problem with these
sensors is that they have to be mounted on the surface like AEMS and PEMS
despite gravitons ability to travel through matter. Any material between
the sensors "eye" will generate a powerconsumtion that is enormous which
will drown the far away masses in noise, remember that power/pull drops of
by range.

I like this kind of handwaving rules because it adds a bit of chrome and it
postulates that any scientific advances are made in the ver y small first
before getting applied to large scale. The same should probably be said
about jump. At TL 8 they probably know a thing or two about jumpspace and
jumpfield but most scientists except lunatic fringe UFO-geeks and mad
scientists think it only applies to subatomic particles and has no use.

/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:10:09 +0100
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: [TML] Bertling Construction Company joins ISBA

Press Release from Bertling Construction Company, Sylea

Bertling Construction Company, Division Sylea, is proud to announced
that it is seeking membership in his honorable Cleon I's Imperial
ShipBuilders Association. As a company with traditions going back to 
the old Terran Confederation we are confident that we will be accepted.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:12:32 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: [TML] J-fuel

>So what if you kept the Lhyd under pressure?it lowers the space and still
>lets you keep the same amount. This may not be a good idea for war ships but
>all of those Free,Far,Fat traders out there can make a lot more in the
>process of a days opps weeks work. I dont pretend to know alot about this
>type of thing but I'm sure some on here does. If this is a workable idea what
>whoud the compression rates be?
>
>Victor aka Tbsvt@aol.com

Liquid hydrogen is VERY hard to compress so I'd say that can be ruled out.
Another option that I've written about on the list a couple of times is you
can store MORE hydrogen in solid matter than in tanks! You can pretty
easily put 10x the amount of hydrogen inside solid titanium. This packing
is a quantum mechanical effect that is also behind the leaking of hydrogen
through solid walls. X-boats and others where jumprange is at premium could
have solid titanim or palladium tanks to store 10x as much hydrogen. This
would seriously break canon though so some handwaving is needed I think.
Perhaps the hydrigen needs to be extracted extremely fast?

In fact, when Fleischman & Pons made a back-of-the-envelope calculation
about how much pressure was needed to compress hydrogen to the same
densities that you get for free inside metals and found that these
pressures were in the hot fusion ballpark they started the investigations
that led to their semi-successful cold fusion research.

/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:47:30 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: [TML] Sumer lost Vilani colony

This idea about Sumer being lost Vilani colony/refugees and whatever. To
continue in this D=E4niken vein take a look at the (by UFO nutcases) much
hallowed Hale-Bop comet. It orbits the sun at about 4200 years and thus the
last time it visited us was about the time of the Ziggurats of Sumer. These
Vilanis built a asteroid ship just like the Sky Raiders and covered it with
huge quantities of ice for fuel. They tried to enter orbit in the Solar
system but failed their retro boost and some colonists left the asteroid
and formed Sumer while most stayed behind in the relative comfort of their
asteroid home. A couple of thousand years passes as now they swing by again
but this time they think they've managed to fix their retros.

A campaign on terra 1997 AD. After whatever happens around 2000-AD they
swing out again only to return in the TNE era for another campaign. Check
out www.halebop.com and other sites for fun reading but put on your grade A
bullshit filtering glasses.

/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:54:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek

In mail you write:

> However, in a strange way I'm becoming increasingly attached to Space:Above
> and Beyond, which has just started in the UK. I don't think that it'll
> displace Bab5 in my affections, but I do try not to miss it! Perhaps the
> plotline being a little close to 2300AD caught my imagination!

Try not to wince at things like the episode where they take off from
earth in their single seater "fighters" to rendezvous with the carrier
somewhere near Jupiter (figure out the kind of velocities they have to
hit to do this!). Then they hide in the Tojan Asteroids (from which
they can see jupter!?). And then they attack enemy fighters that are
moving towards earth (when the relative velocities should be 100s of
km/sec). And the fights are in *visual* range at velocities such that
they can make multiple firing passes? 

Sorry, but that one episode made me give up on *that* show.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:04:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] High Guard: Fleet Logistics?

In mail you write:

>>In the future the water usage would be the same but the ship recycling
>>system will be able to reclaim a good percentage of the water 80%, which
>>makes water consumption about 1 gallon.
>
> Out of curiosity, where do you get the 80% figure?  I would think even at
> High Stellar levels it would be much lower.

I'm surprised that it's that *low*.

You *have* to extract excess humidity from the ship's air. So that's
one source of water. All water in the "sewage" system can also be
recovered, simply by using waste heat from the powerplant to boil it
dry. Then you condense the vapor. I'd do the condensing with the
"preheat" system for warming the LH2 to gas before feeding it into the
reactor. That'll condense a *lot* of water.

The dried sewage (baked actually) will store in less space than a
"honey tank" and will be easier to dispose of. It'd make good
fertilizer as the heat will have sterilized it. So it can likely be
*sold* at some stops. At the rest, it should be essentially "free"
(cost of hauling it from the ship matched by what the hauler can sell
it for).

So I'd expect more like 99% recovery of water.

In fact, because metabolism turns food into water and CO2, you'll end
up a trip with *more* water than you started with. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:26:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Starships is broken (surprise, surprise)

In mail you write:

> This is yet another example of where SSDS is not only broken, but downright
> illogical. I assume the area requirements for starships are for heat sinks
> or radiators. Unfortunately, heat sinks and radiators should not be simply
> painted on the radiating surface, as they seem to be in SSDS. Instead, they
> are typically designed in sheets or stacks perpendicular to the radiative
> surface, so as to have vastly more surface area than is on the outside of
> the ships. Take a look at a car radiator or the fins on your pentium to see
> what I mean.

Sorry, but those sorts of fins are used to maximize *conductive* and
*convective* cooling. Neither of which works in space. 

For *radiative* cooling, "parallel" surfaces *minimize* the cooling!
What you want is the maximum area exposed to *space* without being
exposed to any other radiators, parts of the ship, or heat sources
(like nearby stars).

> However, IMHO, thermal radiators on future spaceships is anachronistic
> (sorry, Babylon 5).

>Those are solar panels (probably for emergemcy power)

> Since space has no conductive medium, using radiative
> cooling requires a huge temperature differential between the radiator and
> background environment.

No. It just requires a temp differential. And since the portions of the
sky that aren't stars or planets are at 3K, you have a fair sized
differential. 

The real problem is that the temp of the radiator determines the rate
at which heat is radiated. Higher temps radiate faster. But *getting*
those higher temps requires "pumping" heat. Which requires more power,
which generates more waste heat, which...

> Also, these things would make starships stand out
> nice and bright on sensors. Rather than a huge area with low (~400K)
> temperatures, it will be far more efficient to use small areas with high
> temperatures (~ 4000K). So we need a radiator that emits as a 4000K black
> body, takes a small space, does not itself operate at high temperatures,
> and ideally would radiate in a single direction or cone, so that hostiles
> can't detect us. Such radiators are called lasers.

Sorry, but laser light is *low* entropy. Therefore (David Brin in
"Sundiver" notwithstanding) it *cannot* be used to get rid of heat
(high entropy).

> Alas, I cannot take credit for this sensible idea. Robert Forward described
> this in one of his books (RocheWorld? I can't remember). Look for
> "refrigerator lasers". He describes it far more entertainingly than I can.

David Brin used it in Sundiver, and it *won't* work. It's a perpetual
motion machine type gimmick.

Waste heat is heat that *cannot* be used to perform "work". And that
includes "pumping" lasers.

And using "heat pumps" to "concentrate" waste heat (giving you higher
radiator temps) produces more heat than it gets rid of. 

There are problems with surface area, and they go all the way back to
the beginning of Traveller.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #937
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 11 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 938



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
[TML] QSDS Worksheet still available, and question on ISBA
Re: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Dri
[TML] Re: QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!
Re: [TML] THUDDD Update...
[TML] Shipbuilder decries new industry association (fwd)
Re:[TML] Re: THUDD Far Trader specs
[TML] Consolidated & fixed THUDDD Econ numbers
[TML] Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update
Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers
[TML] Proton Motorcycle and Corners
[TML] Web Pages again
[TML] ISBA 'open to vagabonds and criminals'
[TML] MMT4 Tasks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:46:11 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

Zhodani agents report that Peter  H. Brenton wrote:
- -> Maybe I'm missing something...I tuned into Bab 5 for about the whole first
- -> season, and the beginning of the second, in the hope that the script would
- -> improve, or the plots would improve, to no avail.  The characters were
- -> utterly predictable, the Commander was 2-dimensional, and yet the focus of
- -> the story line.  There was one alien who was at least a good actor.  The
- -> special effects were excellent, but not, alone, worth an hour of my time.
Well, you have to see the first season as setting the stage, getting 
aquainted to all the characters, getting the first glimpse of the 
backplot and the political situation, as well as the "historical" 
background! 
Then, when the stage was set, real adventure could begin, all the 
points not understood earlier now transformed or brought up in a 
different light (Best example: The episode in the first season, where 
Bab4 reappears, followed by the 3rd eason episodes which detail why 
it happened and how!).
This setup is a logical process for the storyline, too.
While in the fist and partly the second season, the dark forces were 
gathering forces and trying to remain hidden, the main characters had 
to slowly put the pieces together and find out what happened.
Then the wars began, and now in Season three (I haven't seen season 4 
yet! Don't anybody DARE spoiling me!), we are in the middle of some 
serious action. 
That is what i like about the series: It's logical, thought through, 
consistent with itself and trhe characters behave like we expect them 
to, because we know them and only one author is steering them (Not 
like Janeway, who behaves differently to danger to the ship in every 
other episode!). That makes charakter development much more 
realistic!

- -> 
- -> I have since tuned in occasionally, without being impressed.  (maybe the
- -> Bruce Willis lookalike turns me off:)
All i can say is: Garibaldi is cool, don't mess with him! 
- -> Did 2nd or 3rd season improve that much? or are our tastes just that
- -> different?  I agree, for the record, with all you guys have said about DS9
- -> nad Voyager.  As I've always said, the writing is what counts, and the
- -> scripts for DS9 and Voyager (and TNG in fact!) were quite weak at the
- -> start. 
Yes, Yes and yes to your thrird statement as well!
- -> Am I just an alien?
Maybe. Just in case, i told the Feds where to find you so THEY can 
find out! ;-)
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:02:43 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers

On Mon, 10 Feb 1997, sinbad@dfw.net wrote:

> The reason I have such a sig disclaimer is because IG
> borrowed/stole/violated a article that was posted to the Internet and
> published it in JTAS. They did not have the article author's consent prior

Just remember, though, that JTAS #25 was put together entirely under the 
old management.  If any such abuses occurred, they are in the past.  IG 
isn't interested in stealing information posted to the internet.  It's 
quite simple to ask the author for permission to use it; most of us are 
happy to contribute to Traveller, after all.  The $25/page for JTAS 
articles is just icing on the cake.

And just to provide a counter-example, a few articles that appeared on 
this list made their way into the M0 manuscript; in every case where I 
included one, I asked the author's permission first.  Not once was I 
turned down - people here are generally quite generous with their work.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:52:04 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
 
> Did 2nd or 3rd season improve that much? or are our tastes just that
> different?  

From what I remember ST:TNG started off slowly in the first two seasons
and picked up after that.
B5 does the same, about half way through season two. My advice, keep
watching, watch for the story arc, you won't be dissapointed.
I personally like B5 because it has a more traveller feel to it than ST.
I *love* the star-furies, and really enjoy the space combat scenes.

Harry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:04:42 CST
From: galliand@juno.com (Scott M Galliand)
Subject: [TML] QSDS Worksheet still available, and question on ISBA

Hi, all. 

With the recent explosion of the creation of the ISBA, I just thought I'd
remind y'all that I created an HTML worksheet for QSDS that is still
online.  I dunno if anyone has found it of use besides me, but it's out
there.  It should hit all the major systems in QSDS, with notes sections
for additional stuff.  You can locate the worksheet at

http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/traveller/forms/qsdsworksheet.html

I also have a copy of my QSDS form as well, although I haven't put the
updated version yet (I did that yesterday at the request of the esteemed
Commander X.  The form's address is

http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/traveller/forms/qsdsform.html

Remember, the current form is updated for QSDS 1.4.  I'll probably put
the QSSD  1.5-updated form up tomorrow (It's Mardi Gras down here in
Louisiana, and the form is at work.  Ain't it nice?).  If you want to
modify the form for the new version for 1.5, it shouldn't be much of a
problem.

I do have one question on the ISBA:  Are you guys going to restrict
current membership to Milieu Zero, or will a Terran concern be invited in
as well?

Scott Galliand

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:58:34 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Dri

s.johnson107@genie.com wrote:
lots of details snipped.
>  How much energy is that?  To fuse ten tons of hydrogen?

ouch, no actually I mean OOUUCHH!

Enough to put a substantial hole in the side of a planet!

Harry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 08:57:24 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> Guy, is it deliberate that the cost of jump drives are now MCr4.2 per ton
> instead of just 4?

Ummm ... yes.

> If it's deliberate, why this minor change? Does it really add anything
> to the rules and/or background?

The main reason for using MCr 4.2/ton (instead of 4.0) is because both FF&S
and Dave Golden's SSDS use MCr 4.2/ton - and QSDS v1.x is supposed to match
those.

> Do I really have to go over the ten designs I went over last night and
> correct all my figures once more?

It shouldn't take _that_ much time to subtract 5% from the jump drive prices
of 10 ships.  If you'd multiplied the prices by 14 like I said in my message
admitting the error, instead of re-figuring things at MCr 4.0 per ton, you'd
be fine now.

> Are you having fun?

Not yet ... are you?

> Are you trying to drive me nuts?

Not any more than usual.  ;-)

> Why are you doing this to me? AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Because I like you?  

> [There will be a short musical interlude while I have a little breakdown.]

"It's time for Animaniacs; we're zany to the max ..."

> Tell me you just forgot that dividing 4 by 14 and rounding off to 0.3 and 
> then multiplying by 14 is a BAD idea... No bisquit for you, my boy.

_I_ didn't forget ... but maybe Joe Fugate and/or GDW did?  The figure FF&S
uses is 0.3MCr per cubic meter (and not 0.2857), and I think MegaTraveller
used this same number (but I'm not positive).  If so, Jump Drives haven't
been 4.0 MCr/ton since High Guard (there must've been a price hike during
the Rebellion).


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:44:43 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDDD Update...

JD Burdick wrote:

>
>> 2) Monthly crew salary (as per the crew salary table on p.113 of the T4
>> manual).  For those who don't have the T4 manual, pilots earn 6,000
>> cr/month, Navigators 5,000 cr/month, Engineers 4,000/month, Medics
>> 2,000/month, and Gunners 1,000 cr/month.
>
>What level of experience are the crew members?  Do we have to calculate
>bonuses?


        In my previously posted examply I put them at the base of the
scale, i.e. all at skill level 1.  Seems to me that this reflects the fact
that in many cases owners will be serving as crew, thereby dragging down
costs quite dramatically.  One could even have a syndicate of co-owners
working on board the ship, making their money off dividends rather than
salaries, which would draw it down even further.  But I figured having at
lease a base salary cost in there seemed to be a good thing..


>
>>
>> 3) Life support costs: 2,000 cr/month per occupied stateroom, 200 cr/month
>> per low berth (see p.97 T4 manual).
>
>Cost for staterooms are 2,000cr/ (two weeks) see p.97 T4 manual not
>2,000/month.


        Arg barg fratz grumble.  Right.... see following posts


>
>> 4) Annual maintenance costs: 1/1000th of the total cost of the starship
>per
>> annum.  I'd suggest dividing this by 12 to give a monthly figure
>>
>> 5) Maximum revenues: at 4,000 cr/ton, how much revenue will it generate
>per
>> trip at 100% capacity?  Likewise, factor in passengers if carried (10,000
>> cr for a high passage, 8,000 for a medium, and 1,000 for a low
>>passage)4,000 cr/ton is the cost to purchased cargo not to ship it.  The
>>4,000/ton
>shipping is incorrect on page 97, the chart on page 113 shows 1,000cr/ton
>revenue for shipping and is in line with previous editions of Traveller.
>(another example of typos)


        Ye gods...  how the hell is anybody supposed to make any money on
these damn things?  Secondly, you're going to try and tell me that it costs
only 1,000 credits to ship 14 cubic meters (a heap of stuff 2m * 2m * 3.5m
across interstellar distances?  RIIIiiiiighhhttt....   IT'D PROBABLY COST
ME MORE TO SHIP IT DOWN THE 401 TO TORONTO VIA TL-7 MOVING VAN!!!!!!!!!
Grrrrr...  <sorry...  I'm feeling better now :)>  All of a sudden I
understand why everyone was getting worked up over economics a while
back...


>
>If the Far Trader is armed do we calculate income including carrying 5tons
>of mail for 25,000cr?


        Sure but note it separately.

>
>What % of stateroom occupancy?
>

        Note it at 100% and at the bare breakeven level.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:41:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: [TML] Shipbuilder decries new industry association (fwd)

Hi folks,

Bruce Johnson's domain name has been changed, so until Rob Miracle gets 
the list admin stuff done to fix it, he's unable to post to the list.  
Therefore, he asked me to forward this message of his...

- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:14:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
To: Joe Walsh <ransom@iconnect.net>
Subject: Shipbuilder decries new industry association (fwd)

ImperialNews Service wire 0001:42

	YugoShips PLC Says NO to ISBA

	Vladimir Ivankov, Chairman of the upstart shipbuilding firm
YugoShips PLC annouced today that his company will _not_ join the nacent
Imperial Ship Builders Association. 

	"This is blatant attempt to crowd the smaller firms out of the
business. In my experience these Business 'Associations' always seem to
ask higher and higher membership fees, they collude to rig bids, and are
generally a gangsterish impediment to true free trade.

	"As an example, hot on the heels of this announcement; comes an
across-the-board, Imperium wide increase in the price of Jump Drives, the
lifeblood technology of interstellar trade. Why Drive prices have gone up
 to 14 TIMES their old price!" 

	The volatile shipbuilder thundered these remarks at a recent
business banquet in NovoGrodsky Down, the site of planetside operations of
YugoShips.

	"Mark my words...if this, this gang gets to control shipbuilding,
only the corrupt wealthy will be able own ships!"

	"That they have include Cleon Industries, a non-shipbuilding
company in their scheme, clearly shows the heights this gangster cartel
reaches in the Imperium!"

	In other comments Invankov hinted darkly at other, less than legal
actions by ISBA members. While he wouldn't go on record with his
suspicions, he mentioned one firm who "...specializes in high speed,
dangerous ships and vehicles, who's only use is by hoologans and
criminals..." as supplying pirates with ships for "...suitcases full of
credits and false names...".

	While no other official with the company would go on record, the
public affairs officer, Jeanne Vasgel stated tersely in a hastily arranged
press conference that "Mr. Ivankov IS the majority stockholder with the
company, and he is well known for his often contrarian views, however the
officers and shareholders of YugoShips put up with...uhhh... fully support
him. No further comment is available at this time." 
 
	YugoShips PLC stock closed slightly down amidst heavy trading on
the NovoGrodsky stock exchange. Most analysts are waiting for tomorrows
results, since the news hit near the close of trading today.

	YugoShips PLC is the manufacturer of a line of inexpensive modular
starships of 200 tons displacement. Widely derided in some quarters for
having little or no armor and armament, Mr. Ivankov in the past has stated
that they are intended for "...free trade, not free piracy...why else are
we paying such taxes to the Imperial Navy...to pay for their button
polish?" 


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:44:47 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re:[TML] Re: THUDD Far Trader specs

Chris Cox wrote:

>
>> 4.since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max.
>
>Shouldn't a commercial vessel be at most TL-11 in Milieu 0.  I had thought
>that TL-12 was max Imperium military Tech level and TL-11 was max Imperium
>civilian tech.  BTW are QSDS and SDSS the only acceptable design systems or
>does anyone mind if
>I go ahead and use T4 compliant FF&S.
>
>Chris Cox
>(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)

        Nix on the FF&S.  From what I gather it would present too much of
advantage to those who have access to it, wherease SSDS & QSDS are
available to all with net access... and this follows Wildstar's precedent
with last month's non-unofficial and non-highly democratic <grin> ship
design contest.

        As for TL, I was under the impression that that was the TL
available to work with for everything: I don't recall seeing anything in
the rules to the effect that civilian stuff has to be 1 TL less than the
actual TL. I'd suggest letting it stand; it's been out for two days now and
some people have already designed some ships.  Recall that we're at the
alpha-test stage here; this just shows that I was overly optimistic in
thinking that we could do without discussion on design requirements.  I
think that Paul will be taking careful note of this for the next one, right
Paul?

        And if people think that a 1-TL difference is going to totally
invalidate said ships in their Milieu 0 campaign world, they could just
rate them really low... thank god for democracy :).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:44:54 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Consolidated & fixed THUDDD Econ numbers

        Just thought I'd consolidate these given the above-posted reality
checks that have been inflicted on me :).  Please use these numbers if
you're going to be doing a financial info section on your THUDDD
submission.  Apologies to anybody I've misled with my previous
error-riddled posts, and if anybody sees any errata in these, please let
the list know.


1) Financing costs: as per p.96 of the T4 manual, assume a 20% down
payment, with monthly payments of 1/240th of the cost of the ship for 480
months.  Put in amount of down payment and monthly payment.

2) Monthly crew salaries (as per the crew salary table on p.113 of the T4
manual).  For those who don't have the T4 manual, pilots earn 6,000
cr/month, Navigators 5,000 cr/month, Engineers 4,000/month, Medics
2,000/month, and Gunners 1,000 cr/month.  Use the Skill-1 numbers to
reflect possibility of owner-operator(s) lowering costs... it's a
compromise.

3) Monthly life support costs: 2,000 cr/2-week trip per occupied stateroom,
200 cr/2-week trip per low berth (see p.97 T4 manual).  Double these to
give monthly cost of full occupancy.

4) Annual maintenance costs: 1/1000th of the total cost of the starship per
annum.  Divide this by 12 to give a monthly figure.

5) Total monthly costs: Add up all of the monthly costs above.  This is
what you've got to earn in order to break even.

5) Maximum monthly revenues: at 1,000 cr/ton of cargo, how much revenue
will it generate per trip at 100% capacity?  Likewise, factor in passengers
if carried (10,000 cr for a high passage, 8,000 for a medium, and 1,000 for
a low passage), and mail (5,000 cr/ton up to 5 tons if the ship is armed).
Calculate the total maximium revenue assuming full passenger occupancy and
5 tons of mail (don't forget to subtract 5 tons worth of cargo to make room
in the hold for the mail).

6) Breakeven point: at 1,000 cr/ton, how many tons of cargo/how many
passengers  must be carried in order to meet the total monthly costs.


        As I've pointed out in a previous post, the two trips/month is
actually pretty slow; with good brokers (methinks that being buddy-buddy
with your brokers is *essential*), and spending only 4-5 days on turnaround
between trips, it'd be possible to squeeze an extra trip in every two
months or so.  Given that Milieu 0 is not a perfect world I figure that
it's best to be conservative and stick to a week spent between trips.

        Other assumptions I've made here include base crew salaries and
maxed-out life support costs.  While these are debatable, I think they'll
do as a benchmark...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:44:50 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update

        Ahem... seems I oopsed on the econ figures; the T4 book's lousy
editing is to blame for one, my misreading the rules for the second.

1) Please use the revised economics numbers in the next post in working out
the financial infor for your designs.

2) Given those changes, I thought it best to run the numbers on the CDB-1
again.  Clearly the passengers are the difference between life and death
now (and mail doesn't hurt), but on a very good run, even a non-speculative
operator will still be able to pull down at most 134 Mcr a month; 40%
margins are not bad, methinks.  Given that this is assuming a two-sided
route, with one week spent in jump and a full week spent on the ground
between jumps (which is apparently on the high side), a driven crew with a
good broker could squeeze in a few more trips per year and make even more.
I think that' it's still viable...   And there's always speculative trade
on the side.

Tons: 200 Std (Disk S/L)  Volume: 2800 m^3                   Cost: 69.6 MCr
Crew: 4                   High/Mid Pass: 6                   Low: 6
Cargo: 76 Std             Controls: TL12 Hi auto (Bridge)    TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (280 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 2,000 T/Thr)
01x 95 mj Civ Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0     0.75 Power Plant (1x 75Mw)
                                      40 Fuel (Scoop 16, Refine 50)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      01 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 01 Pilot, 01 Navigator, 01 Gunner/Steward, 01 Engineer.

Financial information:

Down payment: 13.92 Mcr
Monthly payment: 290 Kcr
Monthly crew salaries: 16 Kcr
Monthly life support costs: 41,200 Kcr at full occupancy
Annual maintenance costs: 69.6 Kcr per annum, 5.8 Kcr per month
Total monthly costs: 332.4 Kcr
Maximum monthly revenues: 466 Kcr (at 142 Kcr from cargo (total cargo
capacity less 5 tons for mail times 1,000 cr/ton), 25 Kcr from mail, 60 Kcr
from 6 High passengers, 6 Kcr from 6 Low passengers, for 233 Kcr a trip at
full capacity times 2 trips per month).
Breakeven point: 2 trips per month, with cargo hold full (of cargo), no
mail, with 1.5 High
passengers per trip and the ship will make a negligible profit.

        So it isn't quite the obscene moneymaker it'd be at 4,000 cr per
ton... at least you can still make an honest living from it :).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:12:54 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Techno Trousers

At 10:11 10/02/97 EST, you wrote:
>--- Traveller-digest wrote:
>Well anyone want to have a go a a FF&S write up of these. I don't want to 
>as the mere thought of trying to design anything with FF&S gives me "the 
>fear".
>--- end of quote ---
>such that you might soil your Technos? Imagine the potential for shorts
>PunIntended) if one was...incontinent! ;->
>

Pass me my brown cordory trousers........

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 10:32:12 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: [TML] Proton Motorcycle and Corners

><< As for the Protion? Motorbike, sounds good except for one thing, if my
>understanding of G forces etc are correct, don't go around a corner on it
>if the frame is only rated to 1G it would buckle >>

>Hey, at...what was it, 700km/h?...you can pretty much forget about 
>cornering anyway.

>"oh look, here comes..." 

><SMASH!>

Yeah, I didn't intend for it go 700kph in a city.  I figured people
would take it to max speed somewhere in the country side where there is
plenty of flat open ground. Sort of like driving across Kansas.  


Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:42:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: [TML] Web Pages again

Hi,

While I relaize that I flog my web page in every third digest, I'm
posting the web URL again for two reasons:

1) I've partialy converted Roderick's sample THUDDD entry to html,
   for people who want to see a sample entry (it's not 100% done though)

2) I'd like it if anyone who does go by could just poke around a bit
   and perhaps make some suggestions. My HTML conversions are workmanlike
   at best and I'm still not sure if formatting USDs via the <PRE> tag
   is a good idea or really cheap looking. (It is, however, really fast
   when cutting the USD out of digests)

It is, as always, at http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry/traveller

Thanks.

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:42:12 +0000
From: "Iain Rowan" <rowan@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: [TML] ISBA 'open to vagabonds and criminals'

Seven Stars Business News flash feed

<datakey:business;scandal;space-affairs;entertainment;crime>
priority 4 embargo none feed soonest

Uproar has broken out in the heart of the traditional and established 
element of the starship construction industry today with the shock 
announcement of the formation of a new player on the ship-building 
scene.

A press release from the 'Beyer-Suristen Syndic' today announced the 
formation of a new starship construction company based upon a 
secretive surprise buyout of the four hundred year old Holva 
Industries shipyards, a deal which has already attracted a great deal 
of criticism from more established players in the industry, not least 
because of the alleged histories of the two main partners in the new 
concern, 'speculative traders' Venn Beyer and Eckil Suristen.

Announcing their retirement from what they choose to term their 
'speculative marketing and needs satisfaction era', Beyer and 
Suristen have bought the Holva Shipyards lock, stock and blast pit, 
and in a move that has infuriated many, recruited some of the best 
ship designers and construction workers around with large pay deals 
and unspecified bonuses which the new company refer to as 
'confidential industrial incentives of a fiscal, narcotic or 
otherwise pleasurable nature'.

Hrollum  Shushkkam of the Master Shipbuilders Association commented 
earlier today from outside his rejuvenation therapy clinic:

'It's a damn disgrace that a couple of cheap smugglers like these two 
can just force their way in on a traditional old family business like 
Holva.  We all know where this money's come from.  We all know that 
these two reprobates have no ship-building experience.  Think they 
can just buy their way in.  Well, let me tell you, I can't imagine 
buying a child's toy from them, let alone an interstellar craft.  
It's a damn disgrace if the ISBA is open to vagabonds and criminals 
like these. A damn disgrace.'

When asked to comment on these allegations, Beyer and Suristen's 
'press officer and media commando' Arlen Draff stated that Shushkkan 
was an DELETED BY ORDERS LEGAL DEPARTMENT: REMOVE
THIS DISCLAIMER BEFORE PUBLICATION and that what was more he could 
take his interstellar craft and DELETED BY ORDERS LEGAL DEPARTMENT.

Draff outlined B&SS' intention to provide 'quality at low cost' to 
the discerning starship buyer, but refused to expand upon the 
organisation's publicity materials which referred to 'all the little 
extras that many interstellar businessmen need in today's competitive 
market.'  According to Draff, B&SS' first product would be the design 
of a small starship ideally suited to 'those small businessmen who 
need to move goods from A to B quickly and discreetly, perhaps 
stopping off at C for reasons which may be perfectly valid, and any 
trip they may make to D is their own business, quite frankly.'

Draff added that he was aware of many slurs upon the reputation of 
his employers:

'It should be made clear that no legal proceedings have ever been 
taken against either of these great entrepreneurs.  I'm sorry, that 
should read "It should be made clear that no *successful* legal 
proceedings have ever been taken against either of these great 
entrepreneurs".  And now gentleman, if you have no more questions, we 
have a free bar through here, as we are whole-heartedly committed to 
good relations with the media.'

Beyer and Suristen were themselves unavailable for comment.  Media 
rumour has it that Beyer has gone solo off-planet to cruise in the 
Oort Cloud where he 'does all his best thinking' and that Suristen 
was too drunk to come to the vid-phone.

Updates shortly.

End  feed.  Send all Seven Stars Subscribers immediate.

EDDA IN LEGAL TO XKRIS IN PUBLICATIONS  - XKRIS, DON'T 
FORGET TO TAKE THE BLOODY CENSORED BITS OUT THIS TIME.
Iain Rowan

rowan@netcomuk.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:42:47 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: [TML] MMT4 Tasks

> From: William F. Hostman <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: [TML] Inconsistent design sequences 
> Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 4:26 PM

> My biggest problem with T4 as a whole is tasks; Second to that isthe
> inconsistency of the design sequece for vehicles vs starships.

What about the task system of MMT4 do you not like?  I find the device by
which Marc managed to keep d6 while increasing the resolution of the
process interesting.  I'm told that it is similar to GURPS, having been
blessed enough to avoid it, I wouldn't know.

	Target = Stat + Skill - Modifiers

	Roll xd6 where x = difficulty.

What's complicated or over simplified about that?  I'll admit that I'm a
d20-lover, but I'm willing to give it a shot...  It's convenient to only
need one type of die.  I also like the 1/2 dice.  Heh.

I like the new additions of the "pools" for combat, though a better name
could have been found for them.  I do question the validity of adding a
point to your END pool for EVERY combat task, though.  I don't find firing
a handgun, or even my shotguns, that tiring (and I seriously doubt that my
own END is much above a 5 or 6).  I need to think about it further, but
I'll probably only add points to the END pool for melee attacks, running,
etc.

I think that the initiative tools are still VERY weak; I plan to use [ 1/2
* (DEX) + Tactics ] to achieve a TNE-like initiative sequence, possibly
with INT deciding ties.  I don't think that initiative is all that random,
but for those who do, throw it in as a TASK!

I think IG missed the boat on character generation, though.  I'm not
table-averse, but I prefer the more engaging system of the "House Rules". 
At the very least, they could have included TASK rolls for the survival et
al rolls (see, I'm still on topic!).

You complained about the number one gripe was with the task system, and
then spent all of your time on the design sequence...  Why?  Just use the
stereotypical Traveller gear and like it!!!  Heh.

[gearhead whining snipped  ;-) ]



david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #938
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 11 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 939



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Sandcasters (and Book 2)
[TML] ISBA - Portsoy Yard Signs Up
Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers
[TML] Re: Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update
[TML] Description of Classic Traveller Far Trader 
[TML] Re: Sandcaster Ammo
[TML] [ISBA] Ce Acatl Corporation Press Release
[TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Dri
[TML] Re: J-fuel
[TML] ISBA: Generica Shipyards
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
[TML] OFFICIAL QUESTION Re: CDB-1: Famille Spofulam's THUDDD entry...
Re: [TML] Grav scanner handwaving
[TML] Metres?
[TML] ISBA:  CmdrX's  Response (longish)
[TML] THUDD Competition Request
[TML] Aurelian Industries Joins ISBA

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:00:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: [TML] Sandcasters (and Book 2)

Dedly@aol.com wrote:

> My understanding of sandcasters from CT was that they were indeed a passive
> defense. Cannisters would be launced in anticipation of laser fire. The
[...]
> Another thing to keep in mind is that when the cannister is launched it will
> have a vector similar to that of the ship. If the ship suddenly changes
> course, it will lose the protective cover of the sand as the cloud will
> continue on its course or disperses.

The old, old, version of the Book 2 starship combat rules treated sand in
an interesting way.  For those of you not familiar with them, the original
Traveller space combat rules used vector-based movement (no hexes!), had
planetary templates with fractional G gravitational bands which affected
your course, very simple rules to allow aerobraking, and some other neat
stuff.  (It originally used miles, but later Black Book editions junked 
that in favor of the metric system.)  The scale was set a bit cumbersome;
the playing surface required was too big (originally 1 inch to 1000 miles).  
Damaged ships (heck, *undamaged* ships) tend to careen off under the couch.
Templates for planets and moons were *huge*.  Let's just put it this way.
The jump point at 4.3 light-seconds from Terra would be at 800 inches,
which is sixty-six feet (or twenty meters)!  :)  It's a good thing that
combat turns were only ten minutes long, so ships wouldn't go so far.  
Changing official scale by a factor of ten was a Good Idea, unless you
had a football field to play on, and big tape measures.  

Sandcaster fire created clouds of sand on the playing surface, which had
a fixed vector.  Laser fire crossing through sand clouds had their chance
"to hit" reduced depending on how much thickness of sand they had to cut
through before reaching the target.  This had the neat side-effect that
sand clouds would drift around the playing surface and could be ducked
behind.  The problem with sand was that, at least in the original rules,
it wasn't clear how large a cloud a single sand cannister made.  Judging
by the defensive DM table, it looks like it might have been 1/4" in scale,
or 250 miles!  Somehow, this doesn't seem like it would work in reality....

Supposedly, these clouds of sand also interfered with missile fire and
caused minor damage to ships passing through them.  I don't recall seeing
any actual rules (at least in the original books) implementing this.

Off on a tangent, I recently looked to see how sensors and weapons worked
in the old rules.  Originally, sensors detected automatically out to a
range of 500,000 miles (2.7 light-seconds); military sensors detected to
two million miles (10.7 light-seconds).  I know for certain that this was
revised down in later Black Book editions.  Ships running silent were
undetectable over 100,000 miles (0.5 light-seconds); in orbit, over ten
thousand miles (0.05 light-seconds)  Lasers hit on two dice at 8+ out
to 150,000 miles (0.8 light-seconds), at 10+ out to 300,000 miles (1.6
light-seconds), and at 13+ beyond that, with modifiers depending on what
computer programs you both were running and the crews skill levels.  I 
assume the numbers all are different in the later "metric" space combat 
system.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:09:28 +0001
From: "Nick Meredith" <nickm@discover.co.uk>
Subject: [TML] ISBA - Portsoy Yard Signs Up

News coming in reports that the prestigeous Portsoy Yard has signed 
up with the ISBA, with the intent of quoting for vessels under the 
Thrudd scheme.

The Portsoy yard is an old established firm, originally from earth, 
which started with the design of sea-bed moored oil exploration and 
extraction platforms in the 20th Century.

They have been in business ever since, producing hard wearing and 
economical vessels for a growing number of provate customers.

Their most recent claim to fame was in the recent quotation for a 
recontact vehicle, when their vessel, although only a runner up 
boasted the highest level of sensors in it's class, together with a 
full compliance with all technical requirements. It is understood 
that it slipped up in not providing a sufficient level of luxury for 
the scientific crews.

A spokessman for the corporation was quoted today as saying 
"We look forward to providing a design for a TL11 Far trader in the
near future. Rest assured that it will be a practical and effective
vessel - one which the pilot in you would be proud to fly, and the
accountant in you would be happy to own." 
- -- 
Cheers
Nick Meredith - nickm@discover.co.uk - Coventry, UK

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:57:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers

Quoth sinbad@dfw.net:
> My disclaimer is sig. If you wish a signature less list put it to a vote.
> That is what is going to decided about the headers [TML].

You can put whatever you want in your .sig file.  Netiquette usually
recommends that it be at most four or five lines long.  Yours is nine,
not counting your personal, customized signoff.
 
And, of course, the simpler, suaver, shorter way is just to insert a
(c) 1997 Sinbad Sam (or whatever your real name is).  Unless you're dying
to pull a Michael Richter and continue to dig at Imperium Games and
irritate the rest of us with badly written dire warnings.

> Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
           ^^ And this should be "does", while we're picking nits.

> Imperium Games, without my written consent before hand. The use of the
"Beforehand" is one word. -------------------^^^^^^^^^^^

> use of the contents may be posted on web pages that do not charge a fee
And this just doesn't make any sense.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:16:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update

Financial information:

>Down payment: 13.92 Mcr
>Monthly payment: 290 Kcr
>Monthly crew salaries: 16 Kcr
>Monthly life support costs: 41,200 Kcr at full occupancy
>Annual maintenance costs: 69.6 Kcr per annum, 5.8 Kcr per month
>Total monthly costs: 332.4 Kcr

353, you forgot to re-total everything.

>Maximum monthly revenues: 466 Kcr (at 142 Kcr from cargo (total cargo
>capacity less 5 tons for mail times 1,000 cr/ton), 25 Kcr from mail, 60 Kcr
>from 6 High passengers, 6 Kcr from 6 Low passengers, for 233 Kcr a trip at
>full capacity times 2 trips per month).

Um, nope. You've double-counted cargo. Cargo is 71 Kcr a trip.
2 trips per month. Right now, you're losing 29 KCr a month.

>Breakeven point: 2 trips per month, with cargo hold full (of cargo), no
>mail, with 1.5 High
>passengers per trip and the ship will make a negligible profit.

Again, something needs to be tweaked to get this in the black.
Did you run expenses using refined or unrefined fuel?

http://www.magmacom.com/~ehenry/traveller/thudd/spofulam.html
for the ugly numbers.

(I did it again! Oh well.)
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:14:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] Description of Classic Traveller Far Trader 

  Since I am sure there are some on this list who have not had a chance to
read Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats for CT (published in 1980 - I
bought my copy new that year, which just shows I've been playing this
game far too long), I thought I'd give some details of the Empress
Marava Far Trader described in that volume.


Empress Marava
200T Far Trader

Dimensions: 49.3 x 28.5 x 8.7 meters
Crew: 3  (Pilot/Navigator, Engineer, and Steward/Medic)
	 (In addition, two gunners may be carried as needed)
Acceleration: 2G; normal operations and cruising at 1G
Jump: 2  (Fuel carried for one jump 2 or two jump 1)
Gravitics: Adjustable 0.1 to 2.0 G; inertial compensators
Range: 4 weeks manuever; three months life support
Cargo: Seven Passengers; Four Low Passengers; 46/61 Tons Cargo*
Armament: 2x Dual Laser Turret; optional weaponry available
Electronics: Model/1bis computer.  Entertainment consoles
Ship's Boats: None.  One four passenger air/raft carried over forward
              cargo loading ramp with interior boarding and access.
	      Used for errands and has limited sub-orbital capability.
Cost: MCr. 66.175 - this price does not include the weaponry.
TL: Not specified

*Both figures appear in the description; the second is the correct one.


Notes: The ship is streamlined and has scoops for gas giant refueling.
       It has a fuel purification system installed.  The four low berths
       can hold livestock to 400kg; the instalation is essentially the
same as the Emergency Low Berth in QSDS.  The laser turrets are standard,
though the description says a mixed package of missile, laser, and
sandcaster weaponry is becoming increasingly popular (in CT, one could put
up to three weapons in a turret, and mix different weapons in the same
turret - we always liked a triple turret with one laser, one sandcaster,
and one missile launcher).  According to thye description, the ship cannot
turn a profit in normal cargo and passenger operations, even with a full
load - cargo speculation is mandatory just to break even.


Conversion to T4:
  Most aspects of the design can be converted easily.  In QSDS terms, this
ship has 10 large (4 ton) staterooms, seven of which are capable of
passenger service.  On the plans, one of the crew staterooms is drawn
larger than the others; presumably this is for the crewmember who is the
owner.  Six of the passenger cabins are grouped together, with the seventh
(originally intended as a crew cabin) on the bridge level near the other
crew cabins.  When seven passengers are carried, four of the five crew (if
a full complement plus two gunners is carried) have to share cabins.

  The Far Trader appears in both MT and TNE; there are minor differences
due to changes in the design systems used, with TNE ships having a larger
crew (I think) with more small cabins.

  I'll be happy to answer any questions, so feel free to contact me.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:26:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: [TML] Re: Sandcaster Ammo

From Commander X at the office
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

I have a question, this may or may not have come up before, but...

Just how much does a can of Sandcaster "Ammo" cost?  PC's have asked 
questions regarding getting more sandcaster "ammo" recently, and there is no 
mention of it in Q/SSDS.

I don't remember if there was any mention of it in FF&S, but I'll check.

If you have any ways that you TML'ers have come up with for solving this 
problem e-mail or post.

**Stay Tuned,  the Commander's Responce to the "Outrageous Alegations 
against X-TEK and the ISBA" comming very soon!**

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:29:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: [TML] [ISBA] Ce Acatl Corporation Press Release

[FOR IMMEDIATE DISTRIBUTION TO ALL NEWS SERVICES]

Ce Acatl Corporation (Sylea/Core) is a diversified engineering services
firm which last year celebrated its centennial.  As was announced at that
time, CAC is committed to positioning itself as the design firm of choice
for reliable, high-quality transport systems throughout Sylean space.

Therefore, we are very pleased to announce that CAC has signed a merger
agreement with Tassini Yards on Sylea, a highly acclaimed shipyard
renowned for the quality of its work on a variety of civilian and military
vessels (including the highly popular "Tralik" class 400-ton freighter).
The company, now known as CAC/Tassini, will design and prototype starships
and small craft for the expanding Empire of which we are all so proud to
be a part. 

The first CAC/Tassini joint design is already in progress:  A 200-ton J2
merchant vessel (the "Far Trader" category) utilizing a Fusion+ powerplant
(All hail our gracious Emperor!) for superior performance.  The ship class
has been designated "Pochteca," after a caste of long-range traders on
prestellar Terra.  Several non-disclosure agreements and market
considerations prevent us from providing further details at this time. 

Emphasizing the CAC/Tassini commitment to quality and interoperability, we
are proud to announce our membership in the nascent Imperial Ship
Builders' Association (ISBA).  CAC has long supported industry consortia
such as this as a means to ensure that useful standards of design and
construction are set and rigorously followed, without the need for direct
involvement of government regulators.

Finally, CAC/Tassini finds regrettable recent remarks by the chairman of
Famille Spofulam Yards concerning labor relations in the shipbuilding
industry.  While FSY is of course welcome to do business as they see fit,
we hope they will in turn recognize that CAC/Tassini and other members of
the ISBA have very good relations with the United Shipyard Workers and its
affiliated unions.  In addition, we categorically reject any suggestion of
industry-wide collusion or "price fixing" as abhorrent ethically and of
questionable legality.  While we look forward to working as peers with FSY
in developing the ISBA, we in no manner endorse nor abide by any of their
policies and business practices.

A major press release concerning the "Pochteca" project is expected to be
released in the very near future.  Once again, CAC/Tassini wishes to thank
our gracious Emperor, our customers, our employees, and the people of the
Empire for making CAC/Tassini the number one choice for ship construction.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:49:45 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Dri

Tue, 11 Feb 97 00:26:00 GMT, s.johnson107@genie.com
>> My take is that it is a system of producing power over a very short
>> time tightly coupled so that the power goes right into the jump field.
>> Producing the jump field is a huge sink that the energy goes into so
>> you don't have to find a way of storing all that energy the way you
>> would if you were going to use it for something else.

>    It's got to be a LOT of energy that's being soaked up.

Yeah, it is.  However, it is quite reasonable that it take
a _lot_ of energy to get into jump space.  Also, such energy
requirements can also represent one barrier to FTL travel
at lower technologies.

It would also be cute if a lot of that energy came back out
(since you are not dropping back down to a lower energy
state) in a big flash that anyone who could be bohtered
to look would see.  However, that might violate background.
(I think you get some sort of flash but not a big one
and it might mess up sensor ranges).

>    Efficiency, I'd never thought of that!  That would make a lot of sense,
>especially when you're talking about fusing TONS hydrogen in minutes!  I mean
>think about all those clips of nuclear bombs going off.  You get that kind of
>power production with a few ATOMS!!!  Now you're going to fuse TONS!!!
>    But efficiency would have an impact, if FoEx say half of it is being used
>to cool the reactor as a heat sink perhaps?

Well, since there isn't a huge amount of energy seen, the excess
presumable ends up in jump space (on way or another).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:53:43 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: [TML] Re: J-fuel

Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:11:54 -0500 (EST),  TBSVT@aol.com
>So what if you kept the Lhyd under pressure?

Liquids are relatively uncompressable.  That is why liquifaction
generally represents the lower limit for compressing a gas.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:54:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] ISBA: Generica Shipyards

"Generica and the ISBA: Opportunity Knocks?"

CrystalIron Age, V. 21, N. 1 (reprinted by permission)


Editor's Introduction:

  When we first heard about the rumblings in the industry that have now
given birth to the ISBA, we decided to take the easy way out and send our
intrepid reporter Carvon Greverr to round up some opinions from our
local tycoon, Joe Shugli, owner and operator of Generica Starships.
Carvon found Joe in his office, feet up, reviewing a mock-up of a ship
design...


CrystalIron Age:  So, Joe, what's that?  New model?

Joe Shugli:  No, just our standard Far Trader - sold a bunch of them
             this year.

CA:  So why are you looking at it?

JS:  Well, let's just say a little bird told me that the ISBA is going to
     be doing a design competition on this little item.

CA:  Really?  The official vote isn't closed until next week.

JS:  Vote, you say?  Well, you can believe in that democracy stuff if
     you want - I trust my little bird and his cred account more.

CA:  Interesting.  So, are you going to do any modifications for the 
     competition?

JS:  Hell no!  Maybe a coat of shiny slip-glow paint to impress the 
     judges - they wouldn't know a good design if it came up and bit 
     them where the sun don't shine, if you get my drift.

CA:  So you're saying your peers don't know anything about naval
     engineering?

JS:  Never said that!  They're good engineers - just most of them aren't 
     worth a pitcher of warm spit as businessmen.  They come out of school
with more equations than you can shake a stick at, and not a lick of
sense.  Customer comes in, asks for something, and they just fire up the
calc pit and get to it.  They never look in the catalogs to see what the
standard components are or how they can modify something off the shelf to
do the job - they just plug and chug.  Then they can't understand why
their clients wind up in the poorhouse and they can't find a bank to
finance their designs.  'Course, some of them manage to get jobs working
for the militrary design houses - there you can rob the taxpayer blind and
only the poor sod who has to fly the thing pays in the end - with his or
her life.

CA:  So why are you joining the ISBA, then?

JS:  Publicity, pure and simple.  The smart business-sophont is going to
     buy our stuff whether we win or not.  Remember, ISBA is going to
publish data packages on all the entries, not just the winners.  We use
only Sylea Industry Norm (SIN) modules - excuse me, Imperial Data Package
Standard modules - or MilSpec modules, and the smart business-sophont
knows that you can get parts for those babies anywhere.  Plus, they
average 25% cheaper than custom jobs.  Sure, you can squeeze that extra
couple of percent of performance out with a custom design, but that don't
help you when you can't make orbit because the nearest bore-nozzle for the
hydrogen pre-injectors are 10 parsecs away.

CA:  How does that benifit your business, then?

JS:  More orders.  We've got low overhead here.  We bought this plant from
     MetaDyne for next to nothing; they didn't catch the thrust plate
wave, and they went belly up.  Did you know test firing pits make great
wine cellars, by the way?  Anyway, as I was saying, we're low cost - SIN
modules are certified by the suppliers, so we don't have to do more than
nominal checks.  You notice we've got no test pilots here - our stuff
flies first time, every time, no surprises.  Any publicity is good
publicity, and our network of suppliers is hungry for business.

CA:  So, what do you see as Generica's direction in the near future?

JS:  The big thing is going to be small traders, merchant ships.  By small
     I mean less than 1000 tons, and especially less than 600 tons.  Using
the old SIN-TL11 module packages, you couldn't build a small merchant that
was remotely near profitable.  Sure, people built them, but they mostly
lost their shirts.  Under SIN-TL12, you've got some new technology that
makes those small ships competitive.  Those new small fusion plants are
real sweet - we're getting a fair amount of business refiting older ships
as an upgrade.  Couple that with the new thruster plates, and cargo space
goes up, operating and purchase cost go down, and bingo, now you've got
ships that can go into marginal markets and not go broke.  Great
opportunity for start-up companies on the edge of the Federation, oops, I
mean Empire.

CA:  Any plans on getting into the military market, Joe?

JS:  Well, my little bird tells me that some sort of mercenary cruiser is
     in the works as the next ISBA project.  Me and the boys are mulling
some things over - nothing firm yet.  We don't do much military business
now, as you know - ex-fighter jocks love custom shiny knobs and pushpads,
and we don't cotton to that sort of thing around here.

CA:  Anything else on your mind, Joe?

JS:  Not a thing, not a thing - I'm happy as a clam.  Want to see my new 
     wine cellar?

CA:  Sure thing!


______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 18:34 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

In-Reply-To: <9702082302.AA20472@qrc.com>

<< I'd like to propose a new format for the USP, if I may.  This is an
expansion and extension of the current USP, to get a lot of the missing
details back into the ship description. >>

Excellent.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:55:14 -0500
From: "Matthew R. Briggs" <mbriggs@huskynet.com>
Subject: [TML] OFFICIAL QUESTION Re: CDB-1: Famille Spofulam's THUDDD entry...

Roderick,
	I couldn't help but notice that your income calculations are based on
Cr4000/ton for freight.  There is some debate over the accuracy of this
figure in T4;  it is Cr1000/ton in another place in the main rulebook, and
also in all previous incarnations of Traveller.  I do have to admit,
though, Cr4000/ton does make smaller starships much more commercially
viable, especially considering the increased costs of jump drives in QSDS
1.5.  Perhaps we should ask Wildstar for a Traveller Answer on this one. 
What do you think, Guy?

> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:43:41 -0500
> From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
> Subject: [TML] CDB-1: Famille Spofulam's THUDDD entry...
> 
[snip]
> Financial information:
> 
> Down payment: 13.92 Mcr
> Monthly payment: 290 Kcr
> Monthly crew salaries: 16 Kcr
> Monthly life support costs: 20,600 Kcr at full occupancy
> Annual maintenance costs: 69.6 Kcr per annum, 5.8 Kcr per month
> Total monthly costs: 332.4 Kcr
> Maximum monthly revenues: 740 Kcr (at 304 Kcr from cargo,  60 Kcr from 6
> High passengers, 6 Kcr from 6 Low passengers, for 370 Kcr a trip at full
> capacity times 2 trips per month).
> Breakeven point: One trip per month, with cargo hold full, with 3 High
> passengers and 3 Low passengers and the ship will make a negligible
profit
> (about 600 cr).

__________
Matthew R. Briggs
mbriggs@huskynet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:00:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Grav scanner handwaving

Quoth Anders Backman:
> I like this kind of handwaving rules because it adds a bit of chrome and it
> postulates that any scientific advances are made in the ver y small first
> before getting applied to large scale. The same should probably be said
> about jump. At TL 8 they probably know a thing or two about jumpspace and
> jumpfield but most scientists except lunatic fringe UFO-geeks and mad
> scientists think it only applies to subatomic particles and has no use.

Unless scientists can get outside the 10 to 100 diameter limit, they may
well not know anything about jump space at all....

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 14:34:34 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: [TML] Metres?

>> Yeah, it has something to do with the spectral 
wavelength of some element  or other...I think.  OTOH, we 
could just say the meter is the length of the  Emperor's 
septre, or the width of his Iridium seat or something.  <g> <<

'ey! Are you saying our Beloved Emperor has a fat arse?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:28:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: [TML] ISBA:  CmdrX's  Response (longish)

**Please note that this is done in character, and strictly for entertainment 
purposes
I have nothing against Mr. Bruce Jhonson. As a matter of fact, its this 
level of "Role Playing"  we are trying to accomplish.  Enjoy the post, it is 
IMNSHO some of my best "BS" yet!  :)


The Following is an reply from Commander X of X-TEK Industries
042-0001  DSS-X AX00513-C "Planet X"

Re: Outrage, Scandal, Conspiriacy, ISBA, X-TEK, Commander X

Quoted from YugoShips Press Release:

>ImperialNews Service wire 0001:42

>        YugoShips PLC Says NO to ISBA

>        Vladimir Ivankov, Chairman of the upstart shipbuilding firm
>YugoShips PLC annouced today that his company will _not_ join the nacent
>Imperial Ship Builders Association.

>        "This is blatant attempt to crowd the smaller firms out of the
>business. In my experience these Business 'Associations' always seem to
>ask higher and higher membership fees, they collude to rig bids, and are
>generally a gangsterish impediment to true free trade.

You are free to chose not to join, good sir.  However I find your words 
offensive.
This is an Outrage, good sir.  We are not a criminal syndicate!  We are more 
of a "Confederation" of Shipbuilding firms, sharing ideas and technologies. 
The firms associated gain no benefit other than peaceful coexistance between 
companies and limmiting, if not totaly eliminating corporate espionage for 
example.  You confuse our firm with the Fuedal Government of our Glorious 
Imperium.  I may be a Count, good sir, but that title holds no sway in the 
Corporate politics of the ISBA.

>        "As an example, hot on the heels of this announcement; comes an
>across-the-board, Imperium wide increase in the price of Jump Drives, the
>lifeblood technology of interstellar trade. Why Drive prices have gone up
> to 14 TIMES their old price!"

Being a buisnessman yourself, you should know the answer to that! Simple 
supply and demand.  There is a great demand for these new ships, both 
publicly and privately, laws of economics dictate that the price should go 
up.

>        The volatile shipbuilder thundered these remarks at a recent
>business banquet in NovoGrodsky Down, the site of planetside operations of
>YugoShips.

>        "Mark my words...if this, this gang gets to control shipbuilding,
>only the corrupt wealthy will be able own ships!"

Not so, An X-TEK produced Far Trader has a 7.6Mcr downpaymnet. and a monthly 
paymnet of about 90,000cr.  with its 90 ton hold, 6high passengers, and 10 
low, it can easily pay that and still make a profit.

Not only that, but most of X-TEK ships are built for the military, or 
paramilitary organizations within and in the Imperium itself. X-TEK has 
always been a military/paramilitary and governmental contractor, very much 
like the ancient solomani company of "Makdhonal Dughlass".  Do you dare to 
call the Imperium corrupt?

>        "That they have include Cleon Industries, a non-shipbuilding
>company in their scheme, clearly shows the heights this gangster cartel
>reaches in the Imperium!"

This was done out of courtesy,  even in the days of our ancestors, kings and 
emperors would be given a share of a new guild, this was not only courteous, 
but in some cases LAW.  This is also done in our new Imperium.  Again you 
are not only slighting me and the ISBA, but our Emperor as well!


>        In other comments Invankov hinted darkly at other, less than legal
>actions by ISBA members. While he wouldn't go on record with his
>suspicions, he mentioned one firm who "...specializes in high speed,
>dangerous ships and vehicles, who's only use is by hoologans and
>criminals..." as supplying pirates with ships for "...suitcases full of
>credits and false names...".

That one firm wouldn't be X-TEK now would it?  Could it have been your agent 
responsible for nearly causing X-TEK to fall to it's knees due to that 
corporate espionage agents botch job at instaling a worm virus?  If I hadn't 
have spaced him, I would now be conducting an investigation.  Had the agent 
been found out to be yours, I would have sent to you HIS HEAD!

>        While no other official with the company would go on record, the
>public affairs officer, Jeanne Vasgel stated tersely in a hastily arranged
>press conference that "Mr. Ivankov IS the majority stockholder with the
>company, and he is well known for his often contrarian views, however the
>officers and shareholders of YugoShips put up with...uhhh... fully support
>him. No further comment is available at this time."

Ahah, see even your own people are worried.  This tells me that you, yes you 
good sir are the corrupt one.  Anyone who would dare to Insult the Imperium 
and Emperor Cleon is an obvious cad!

To your workers, have you ever considered a job at X-TEK?  We take care of 
our own!

>        YugoShips PLC stock closed slightly down amidst heavy trading on
>the NovoGrodsky stock exchange. Most analysts are waiting for tomorrows
>results, since the news hit near the close of trading today.

After this post, expect it to go down even more!

>        YugoShips PLC is the manufacturer of a line of inexpensive modular
>starships of 200 tons displacement. Widely derided in some quarters for
>having little or no armor and armament, Mr. Ivankov in the past has stated
>that they are intended for "...free trade, not free piracy...why else are
>we paying such taxes to the Imperial Navy...to pay for their button
>polish?"

Again you continue to slander and insult the Imperium!  I cannot, and will 
not let this go unanswered...

I, Commander X, do willfully and by right mind and body, do hereby sue 
Vladimir Ivankov and YugoShips on the basis of Slander and the charge of 
Libel.  Expect a Scout Courier to serve papers to you shortly.


This is part of a speech given in the auditorial chamber of Deep Space 
Station X, by Commnader X. Broadcasted via comm net all over the station, 
and sent via Scout/Courier

"Staff  and Executives of X-TEK, Members of the ISBA, friends and 
countrymen. I ask you now to join me in this cause. Are we going to let 
these slanderous insults to continue?  I say no!  Join me in the suit 
against this slanderous cad!  For not only has he dared to insult me, and 
the ISBA, but our Glorius Emperor, Cleon I!  We have a duty to ourselves and 
our Imperium!  KEEP THE FLAME!"

"Keep the Flame" is the Commander's personal war cry, its origins are 
unknown, but it believed to be an ancient solomani cry used during the Rule 
of Man and before the collapse of that last Imperium.  It did not seem to 
matter, as most of the people listining in the chamber were chanting "X" 
while doing the "crossed arms salute".  Ineed the Commander has "rallied the 
troops"

Planet X has now officialy declaired itself an Amber Zone, in anticipation 
of posible corporate espionage attemps, or outright attacks by hostile 
corporate ships.

This concludes this News release form X-TEK Industries.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 12:35:02 MS
From: Steve Charlton/IFSNA <Steve_Charlton@Avalon.COM>
Subject: [TML] THUDD Competition Request

On a more general note regarding the THUDD process; could we get a repost of 
all the rules/guidelines.  I noticed there has been at least one update, and 
its always possible I missed others.

Thanks
Steve Charlton

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 12:33:23 MS
From: Steve Charlton/IFSNA <Steve_Charlton@Avalon.COM>
Subject: [TML] Aurelian Industries Joins ISBA

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Aurelian Industries (Sylean Stock Exchange symbol ARI) has announced that it 
will be joining the Imperial Shipbuilders Association  (ISBA) with its own 
entrant into the current type-standardized Far Trader competition.  The 
Aurelian Industries entrant will be the YMV-6 Celestia-class Deep Space 
Trader.  The preliminary design will be unveiled at next week's Starship 
Architects Conference in Capitol.

This will be Aurelian Industries' first venture into civilian shipbuilding and 
design since the attempted YMV-5 (Connestoga class) Modular Freighter project, 
which was put on hold nearly 20 years ago.  The current head of Aurelian 
Industries, Baron Alec Wardn, has personally taken over the Civilian Craft 
division of the corporation, and promises that the YMV-6 will be "the most 
popular small-cargo hauler in the Imperium."  Baron Warn, who holds a doctorate 
in Jump Space Theory from the University of Sylea, was responsible for the 
recent successful conversion of the AF-22 Deep Space Gunboat into the 
jump-capable Revenue-class Customs Cruiser for the newly-formed 
customs-enforcement fleet of the Imperial Ministry of Trade.

Aurelian Industries was formed more than 400 years ago by Aurelius Wardn as a 
private consortium to fund the reconstruction of the Badon shipyard near 
Gerrinholm, Sylea.  The Badon district has been held by the Wardn family since 
the Rule of Man, and this claim has withstood numerous legal and other 
challenges since the end of the Rule of Man.  Aurelian Industries first 
ventured into the shipbuilding industry after the rebuilding of the Badon 
Shipyard (now called Aurelia Downport) with two designs for the Sylean Navy; 
the T-32 Training Shuttle and the AF-12 Short Duration Gunboat.  Since then, 
Aurelian Industries has supplied more than 20 different small craft classes to 
the Sylean Navy, as well as two starship classes; the SA-3 (Armistead class) 
Armed Courier and the DE-7 (Gilaadin class) Destroyer Escort.  In addition, two 
other spacecraft classes have been converted to jump-capable starships.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #939
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 11 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 940



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Traveller Library Data, Q to S
[TML] Re:Proton Motorcycle and Corners
Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers
[TML] JTAS 22 Article and JTAS 23
[TML] Re: QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!
[TML] Liner and Dinky
[TML] Re: Traveller Auction: Final Day!
[TML] ISBA News Conference
[TML] THUDD Info
[TML] CmdrX Halts Libel suit
[TML] QuipTech stocks raise 5 points
[TML] THUDDD Announcement
[TML] Siple way to figue expences for starships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:15:57 +1100 (EST)
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: [TML] Traveller Library Data, Q to S

Dear Folks -

After two months in abeyance, I'm working on the Library Data again. Now
available, Q to S!!
________________________________________________________________________
Hyphen (David Jaques-Watson)                         davidjw@pcug.org.au
http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 13:01:00 EST
From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller)
Subject: [TML] Re:Proton Motorcycle and Corners

- --- Lewis Roberts wrote:
 I didn't intend for it go 700kph in a city.  I figured people
would take it to max speed somewhere in the country side where there is
plenty of flat open ground. Sort of like driving across Kansas.
- --- end of quote ---
Afraid its harder than that. Imagine the suspension reactions that would be
needed to counter any but the most glass-smooth surfaces at 600+ kph? As it is,
modern bikes at close to 200mph can get seriously out-of-shape on hitting a
bump, cornering loads or no. And, frankly, the gyrospic effect of two wheels
spinning at that rate would make the bike require power assist to steer, or a
short wheelbase, the latter making it even LESS stable. 

Sounds like fun on paper, though. I guess I always figgered in my riding that
cornering is always better than just wicking it open and watching real estate
zing by. And more fun. ;->

- -j

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:35:27 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Annoying Disclaimers

At 07:02 AM 2/11/97 -0600, "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
wrote:
<snip>
>Just remember, though, that JTAS #25 was put together entirely under the 
>old management.  If any such abuses occurred, they are in the past.  IG 
>isn't interested in stealing information posted to the internet.  It's 
>quite simple to ask the author for permission to use it; most of us are 
>happy to contribute to Traveller, after all.  The $25/page for JTAS 
>articles is just icing on the cake.
>

Hmm....when did the change over occur last year, and when was JTAS 25 put
to bed so to speak?

>And just to provide a counter-example, a few articles that appeared on 
>this list made their way into the M0 manuscript; in every case where I 
>included one, I asked the author's permission first.  Not once was I 
>turned down - people here are generally quite generous with their work.
>

I would not mind if asked, but from what I have seen from your past posts
you would not never due what the "Past Management" has done. 

Sinbad Sam
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published without express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent
 before hand. The use of the contents may be posted on web pages that do
not charge a fee for access.
PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:31:39 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] JTAS 22 Article and JTAS 23

Beings,

In JTAS 22 there is a article "Til They Glow" by James F. Cumber. In it is
describes two tables, both tables were missing in JTAS 22. Table one was
printed in JTAS 23, but not table two, concerning contra terrene matter
bombs, conversion yields, and pen values. 

Does anyone if the table two was ever printed? I have looked thru all of
JTAS to 24 and Challenge 25 thru 74?.  

Thanks

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
This message, in part or in total, may not be published without express
written consent of myself. Just because it has been presented on the
Internet do not give permission for publication, yes, that means you too
Imperium Games, without my written consent
 before hand. The use of the contents may be posted on web pages that do
not charge a fee for access.
PGP key available
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:36:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: [TML] Re: QSDS 1.5 Available in time for THUDDD!

Guy writes:
>>Do I really have to go over the ten designs I went over last night and
>>correct all my figures once more?
> 
>It shouldn't take _that_ much time to subtract 5% from the jump drive prices
>of 10 ships.  

It's not only that. I've also done economic calculations about their earning
potential based on the same figures.

>...If you'd multiplied the prices by 14 like I said in my message
>admitting the error, instead of re-figuring things at MCr 4.0 per ton, you'd
>be fine now.

Come on, Guy, cut me some slack! You got to admit that it was obviously a
silly mistake. Any fool could see that. Too bad I'm not just any fool ;-)

>>Tell me you just forgot that dividing 4 by 14 and rounding off to 0.3 and 
>>then multiplying by 14 is a BAD idea... No bisquit for you, my boy.
> 
>_I_ didn't forget ... but maybe Joe Fugate and/or GDW did?  

Curse them! May their spreadsheets get Virus!

>The figure FF&S uses is 0.3MCr per cubic meter (and not 0.2857), and I 
>think MegaTraveller used this same number (but I'm not positive). If so, 
>Jump Drives haven't been 4.0 MCr/ton since High Guard (there must've been 
>a price hike during the Rebellion).

Careful there! That would mean that the prices in Milieu 0 should be less
than that. Or possibly the prices fluctuate. How about index-linking them
to the design version number? Yeah, that'd make sense...

<Grudgingly> Well, I suppose MCr4.2 per displacement ton is neater than
MCr0.2857 per cubic meter...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:41:21 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: [TML] Liner and Dinky

	Last night I added some new features to Starship-V2
	design spreadsheet, and changed the T4 USP output into
	Wildstar's expanded USP format. During debugging I
	designed few (~12 or so) spaceships and starships
	to see how the new USP format works.

	Anyway, here is a sample design with a starship and
	carried subcraft. The starship is a T4 variant of the
	"Bastien-Class Subsidized Liner" found in "Brilliant
	Lances Technical Booklet", and the subcraft is a T4
	version of 10-ton Launch. In T4 the "Launch" is 20-ton
	spacecraft, so I named this 10-ton Launch as "Dinky".

	The final data is given both in TNE and T4 USP
	formats.

- ---

TNE Starship Data

Tanner-Class Liner

General Data
Displacement: 600 tons			Hull Armor: 20
Length: 69.36 meters			Volume: 8400 m3
Price: MCr 180.7			Target Size: S
Configuration: Streamlined Slab		Tech Level: 12
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 3832.6 / 2884.5 (+121.3 Dinky)

Engineering Data
Power Plant: 155 MW Fusion Power Plant, 1 year duration (23.25 m3)
Jump Performance: 3 (2520 m3)
G-Rating: 1G Thruster plate (105 MW/G), Auxiliary 1G High Efficiency
	Anti-Gravity Drive (30 MW/G)
G-Turns: Unlimited
Maint: 158

Electronics
Computer: 3xTL-12 Standard computer (0.4 MW)
Commo: Maser (Unlimited; 0.6 MW), Radio (1 hex; 1 MW)
Avionics: Imaging EMS, IGS positioning, 160 km/h NOE
Sensors: AEMS (1 hex; 11 MW), PEMS (4 hex; 0.15 MW)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: No bridge, 4 normal workstations

Armament
Offensive: 3x3td socket (No crew)
Defensive: None
Master Fire Directors: None

Accommodations
Life Support: Extended (1.1624 MW), Gravitic Compensators (29.06 MW)
Crew: 6 (2xManeuver, 1xElectronics, 1xEngineer, 1xMaintenance,
	1xMedic)
Crew Accommodations: 6xSmall Stateroom (0.5 kW)
Passengers: 34xMiddle, 20xLow
Passenger Accommodations: 34xSmall Stateroom (0.5 kW),
	 20xLow Berth (1 kW)
Cargo: 3080 m3 (220 tons), 8 Large Hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 1x10-ton minimal hangar
Air Locks: 6

Notes
Total Fuel Tankage: 2543.25 m3 (181.7 tons).
Fuel scoops (10% of ship surface), fills tanks in 0.76 hours.
Fuel purification machinery (1.92MW), 47.69 hours to refine
2543.25 m3.
Auxiliary anti-gravity drive allows hovering and belly landings on
planets.
The average density of fully loaded vehicle with subcraft is 0.48
ton/m3, so the liner will float on water.


Dinky

General Data
Displacement: 10 tons			Hull Armor: 20
Length: 12.88 meters			Volume: 140 m3
Price: MCr 14				Target Size: VS
Configuration: Streamlined Cylinder	Tech Level: 12
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 121.3 / 101.9

Engineering Data
Power Plant: 20 MW Fusion Power Plant, 1 year duration (3 m3)
Jump Performance: 0 (0 m3)
G-Rating: 2G Thruster plate (3.5 MW/G), Auxiliary 1G High Efficiency
	Anti-Gravity drive (1 MW/G)
G-Turns: Unlimited
Maint: 18

Electronics				
Computer: 2xTL-12 Standard computer (0.4 MW)
Commo: Maser (Unlimited; 0.6 MW), Radio (1 hex; 1 MW)
Avionics: Imaging EMS, IGS positioning, 160 km/h NOE
Sensors: AEMS (0.01 hex; 5 MW), PEMS (2 hex; 0.06 MW)
Controls: No bridge, 2 normal workstations

Armament
None

Accommodations
Life Support: Extended (0.027 MW), Gravitic Compensators (0.675 MW)
Crew: 2 (1xManeuver, 1xElectronics)
Crew Accommodations: None (see notes)
Passengers: None (see notes)
Passenger Accommodations: None (see notes)
Cargo: 77 m3 (5.5 tons), 1 Small Hatch
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: None
Air Locks: 1

Notes
Total Fuel Tankage: 3 m3 (0.2 tons).
Auxiliary anti-gravity drive allows hovering and belly landings on
planets.
Cargo hold may be fitted with either 51 restricted seats, 30 cramped
seats, 22 adequate seats or 11 roomy seats. In passenger transport
the cargo space is usually fitted with 20 adequate seats, allowing
7 m3 (0.5 tons) of cargo space. One seat costs Cr100.
For exploration purposes the cargo hold may be fitted with up to 2
modular staterooms (Cr40000 each). The life-boat version has 2
emergency low berths fitted in cargo hold (Cr100000 each).
While the power plant is the smallest possible TL-12 fusion plant,
there is 4.687 MW power surplus.
The average density of fully loaded vehicle is 0.87 ton/m3, so the
dinky will float on water.

- ---

T4 Universal Ship Profile (with Wildstar's expansions)

Tanner-Class Liner (Starship-V2)

Tons: 600 (Slab SL)	Volume: 8400 m^3	Cost: 194.704 MCr
Crew: 6			High/Mid Pass: 34	Low Pass: 20
Cargo: 220 tons		Controls: Std		TL: 12

8 Size			3 Jump Drive (60 tons/Pc Fuel)
0 Fire Control		1 Maneuver (Thruster plate, 105 MW)
1 turret socket		0.5 Power Plant (155 MW)
2 turret socket		181.7 Fuel (Scoop 240, Refine 3.8)
3 turret socket		0 Meson Screen (0 MW)
			0 Sandcasters (0 cans)
1xmin hangar (10-ton)	0 Nuclear Damper
			1A 4P 0J Sensors
			10 Armor, 10 Structure

Crew: 2xManeuver, 1xElectronics, 1xEngineer, 1xMaintenance, 1xMedic
Accom: 40 small staterooms, 20 low berths
Subcraft: 10-ton Dinky

Tanner-Class Liner: Using a 600-ton streamlined slab hull,
the Tanner-Class Liner is a passenger and freight carrier
committed to long-haul routes. The total cost includes one
10-ton dinky.
Tanner-class liner is closely related to Stellar and Bastien-
class cubsidized liners.


Dinky (Starship-V2)

Tons: 10 (Cylinder SL)	Volume: 140 m^3		Cost: 14.045 MCr
Crew: 2			High/Mid Pass: 0	Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 5.5 tons		Controls: Std		TL: 12

7 Size			0 Jump drive
0 Fire Control		2 Maneuver (Thruster plate, 7 MW)
			4 Power Plant (20 MW)
			0.2 Fuel
			0 Meson Screen (0 MW)
			0 Sandcasters (0 cans)
			0 Nuclear Damper
			0.01A 2P 0J Sensors
			10 Armor, 1 Structure

Crew: 1xManeuver, 1xElectronics

Dinky: Using 10-ton streamlined cylinder hull, the dinky is small
but versatile space-faring craft. Dinky is suitable for small-scale
passenger and cargo transport, but can also be refitted as lifeboat
or mobile exploration base.

        Antti Lahtinen    :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        al76188@cs.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:56:18 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Auction: Final Day!

 
Getting down to the wire - Tomorrow is the last day!

The Auction will run until Feb. 12, 1997.
All bids should be in dollar amounts.
Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
Payment should be in either check or money order.
Prompt payment is appreciated.

The following persons bid and did not pay in past auctions, and are not
welcome to bid in this one.

lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
NVDoyle@aol.com
Ted7@world.std.com
Danny_M._Moody@bridge.com

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

*new addition*
"Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Book 1 - Characters and Combat" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 2 - Starships" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Book 3 - Worlds and Adventures" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Book 4 - Mercenary" (GDW)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 52. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

*new addition*
"Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium" (GDW)
 Circa: 1979. Pages: 43. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca

*new addition*
"Tarsus - World Beyond the Frontier" (GDW)
 Circa: 1983. Condition: Excellent. (Boxed Module)
 Bid: $11.00 mark@dk-online.dk

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $15.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $10.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Challenge Magazine #25" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: "Fleet Escort Lisiani")
 Bid: 

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #26" (GDW)
 Circa:1986. Pages:48. Condition:Good.(Article:"Cargo-Merchant Prince Variant")
 Bid: $5.00 scarabl@pacbell.net 

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #27" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. ( **Droyne/Grandfather Issue** )
 Bid: $5 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #28" (GDW)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Across the Imperium)
 Bid: $5.00 mark@dk-online.dk

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #29" (GDW)
 Circa:1987. Pages:48. Condition:Good. (**Traveller Tenth Anniversary Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca


MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #56" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition. (**Hard Times Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 sdollar@goodnet.com

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #57" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition: Good. (Article: "Shellgame")
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Challenge Magazine #64" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 88. Condition: Good. (**Fall of the Imperium Issue**)
 Bid:

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $8.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk


TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

*new addition*
"Traveller Chronicle Magazine #10" (Knight)
 Circa:1996. Pages:56. Condition:Excellent. (**Children of Earth - part #1**)
 Bid: $4.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

*new addition*
"Not in Our Stars" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 222. Condition: Excellent. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $8.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Voyage of the Planetslayer" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 302. Condition: Fine. (Travller Inspired Novel - 2 of 3)
 Bid: $9.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

*new addition*
"Tales of the Concordat: Revolt and Rebirth" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 329. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel - 3 of 3)
 Bid: $9.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

*new addition*
"Voyages SF Magazine #15" (King)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 34. Condition: Fine. (Article: "Recruiting for Paradise")
 Bid: $4.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $6.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Journeys Magazine #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 47. Condition: Fine.
 Bid:

"Sniper! - Special Forces" (SPI)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: Folio. Condition: Good. (Unpunched)
 Bid: $4.00 mitch@intersys.com

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Sea of Death" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 394. Condition: Fine. (Novel)
 Bid: $2.00 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Night Arrant" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 398. Condition: Fine. (Novel - Autographed by Gary)
 Bid:

*new addition*
"Gord the Rogue - Come Endless Darkness" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 379. Condition: Good. (Novel)
 Bid: $2.00 dbertil@dtek.chalmers.se
- -----

That's it for the present. I post the last update early tomorrow.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:53:48 -0800
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: [TML] ISBA News Conference

0000-042: FLASH! Vilani Shipbuilder Larkiishsarshi to join ISBA

- ---------------------------------------------------------------
The following is a transcript of the Press Conference held by
Larkiishsarshi to announce the company's decision to join the ISBA. Mr.
Gami Kiirneshir, a boardmember of Larkiishsarshi answered reporters'
questions.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

GK: Thank you for attending. I have some time to answer a few questions
before I have to leave to attend a planning session. You can begin sir,
yes you, with the black horn-rimmed glasses...

WWC: Winston Wong-Cronkite, Sylean Interstellar News Gathering. You are
one of the later shipbuilding firms to announce your intention to join
the ISBA. Do you think the lateness of your decision will affect your
company's performance or standing in the ISBA?

GK: Joining the ISBA was a decision that was not taken lightly by our
board. After much discussion, it was decided that Larkiishsarshi would
do well in joining the ISBA. Membership will enable us to keep abreast
of developments in the shipbuilding industry, enhancing our ability to
plan for contingencies in the future. Next question... yes ma'am, with
the orange pillbox hat.

MB: Murphy Brinn, Vid News Network. Will Larkiishsarshi participate in
the upcoming tender for a J2+ Trader specification? How innovative will
your offerings be?

GK: The board has not yet reached concensus on participation in the
Tender. As for innovation in Larkiishsarshi, my answer depends on what
you mean by the word. If by "innovative" you mean the unrestrained
adoption of new and untested technologies in the design of our products,
the answer is an unqualified no. If by "innovative" you mean starships
designed for maximum efficiency and profit, yet without the penchant
many companies have for "cutting corners" the answer is yes, our
offerings will be very innovative indeed. 

MB: One more question Mr. Kiirneshir: I've heard that your nickname is
"Signal GK". Can you tell us the story of that appellation?

GK: No comment. You sir, in the kimono:

KT: Kai Takahashi, Consolodated Press. You say your products will be
innovative, but how do you expect to be competitive with high-tech
designs offered by firms with a Terran style of management?

GK: Sir, if you check your Terran history, I'm sure the same question
could have been asked to your ancestors shortly after what was called, I
believe, the Second World War. To use a Terran expression, our firm is
not out to "make a quick buck". We have long term profitability and
viability foremost in our minds. I have time for one more question...
yes, the Vargr in the back...

G: Gvaengekhvuz, Kfenzung Papers. What colour will your starships be
available in?

GK: We will let the market decide. Rest assured, Mr. Gvaengekhvuz, we
have been researching preferred colour markings for the Vargr market and
have come up with some very... innovative... colour schemes... thank you
all, I'm very sorry, but I really must leave now.

<clamour from the crowd>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

Merchant captains present at the news conference were optimistic that
Larkiishsarshi could bring some "Vilani Sensibility" to the ISBA, and
offer price competitive ships built with profit in mind.

One Captain, Ewen MacDonald, stated: "Aye, Ah've flewn a Lark --
They'rre a wee bit sloogish, but ye canna beat the 'eadroom."

- -- 
====== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /---- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X->  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275  \
 -----------------------/ \=========== Eschew Obfuscation ===========
Technology is an extension of our hands and our feet, not our spirit.
                                    -- Filmmaker Costa-Gavras, 9/6/95

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:35:50 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: [TML] THUDD Info

Could someone e-mail me the specs for the Far Trader for the first THUDD
ship design contest? I seem to have deleted that information by accident.
Thanks!

                                                Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:01:30 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: [TML] CmdrX Halts Libel suit

The Commander would wish to appologise to Vladimir and YugoShips.
"I have talked to Vladimir, and we have decided to settle out of court,
I have aggreed to stay the libel suit, for now.  But he has been warned,
continue these alegations, and X-TEK will sue.  As a sign of good faith
I have decided to invite Vladimir to witness the SSDS class coming later
this week, so that he can judge for himself how things are run here at
X-TEK. 

The Scout has been halted and the e-papers destroyed, freet yet not
Vladimir, for now.

**Char mode off **

On that last post I also mentioned something about the X-TEK Far Trader,
that info was in error based on current design specs and info, that has
been updated due to recent posts regarding Merchant ship
incomes/expenses.
My next post will deal with a personal system developed for figuring out
stuff like that.

- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:20:47 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] QuipTech stocks raise 5 points

For Immediate Release:

Sylea Day 42-0000:

With yesterday;s announcement of the ISBA's inclusion of QuipTech as an
Honorary Member, the company's stick jumped 5 points to close at 73.5Cr per
share yesterday.  It is expected that as agreements are reached with THUDDD
Enterprises, the stock will continue to climb.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:20:40 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD Announcement

I'm still waiting for some more "Top Ten" lists.  I've only gotten a reply
from about 3-4 of you on what ships you want to design (in order please).

I'm only keeping this open for about a week more (till Saturday, Feb 22)
then I will tally the results and post next month's design spec's.

Hurry up and get your votes in, the future of THUDDD is in your hands

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:28:58 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: [TML] Siple way to figue expences for starships

Ok here the system i am putting together for Merchants and such.

all figues are in terms of months, one month equals 2 "trips", and each
"trip" is 2 weeks

what i have done is taken the income of each element, subtracted cost,
and multied by 2 to come up with profit per item per month.

Hi Passage 16,000cr (10000-2000)x2
Mid Passage 12,000cr (8000-2000)x2
Lo Passage   1,800cr  (1000-100)x2
Frieght      2,000cr/ton  (1000)x2
Cargo@100%sales, no mods  10,000cr/ton(5,000)x2)

Lets assume a 35Mcr Far Trader
with 10Lg sr and 10Low berth and 75tons cargo space
1/240th is about 145,000cr/month
anual maint is 1/1000th or about 35,000cr/yr or 2917cr/month
lets just round up and say total expences are 175,000cr/month

Now the upkeep costs are already delt with in the above values, so its
now easy to find the break even point.  Just mix and matxh cargo space
and passage.

For our example we need 175,000 or the repo man gonna be sending the
"boyz" after you. 
ok to make it for this month you need:

5 High passage = 80,000cr
5 Mid passage = 60,000cr
35 tons (bout half) freight =35,000cr

Added up should be 175,000cr, just what Don Giovani wants, and no legs
get broken, capishe? :-)  And we didnt even have anyone in low berth.
Now fill the rest of the hold with speculative cargo and wheel and
deal!  Thats what being a trader is all about.

Please feel free to check my summs, I know I can macke meshtackez. 
(Adickhted tho typoing werkeds fer mwe!)

Enjoy!

- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #940
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 11 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 941



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] ISBA Honorary Membership granted to QuipTech Industries
[TML] Re: Sandcasters
Re: [TML] Grav scanner handwaving
[TML] YugoShips PLC Says NO to ISBA
[TML] Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
[TML] ISBA: SSN interview with Hengabar Spofulam
[TML] CDB-1: Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not an accountant!
Re: [TML] THUDD Competition Request
[TML] Re: QSDS 1.5
[TML] Re: Revised USP
[TML] [Fwd: FCC Internet Access Charge Reform]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:20:43 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] ISBA Honorary Membership granted to QuipTech Industries

For Immediate release:

Sylea Day 41-0000:

QuipTech Industries, makers of the only Imperial approved starship parts has
been granted an Honorary Membership into the ISBA.  In an announcement today
from their offices on Sylea, Director Savant told reporters that this
announcement came as a surprise for everyone.

"Most shipyards are already familiar with us, and as the only Imperial
approved parts producing agency, we already do business with the charter
members of the ISBA.  However, our inclusion comes as a pleasant surprise.
We intend to work in cooperation with the ISBA in providing the standard for
design throughout the Imperium."

Director Savant continued to say that the ISBA had been issued both standard
price lists as well as guidelines for pricing custom items.  As the approved
parts suppliers for Imperial contracts, QuipTech will undoubtedly see a
financial boom with this announcement, as well as the ISBA's upcoming design
competition.  It is rumored that THUDDD Enterprises, QuipTech's management
subsidiary will become the directing organization for this design competition.

The ISBA was not available for comment.

**RPG off

Well, like Roderick, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to submit
a design for the competition; however, I foundthe idea of the ISBA
intriguing and I didn't want to miss the fun. :)  From now on, when you look
at QSDS, think, "QuipTech's standard equipment price catalogue" and when you
look at SSDS, think, "QuipTech's guide for custom designs."  I think the
THUDDD enterprises part is obvious. :)  When NAH comes out, I guess we will
have to make allowances for individual shipyards to create their own custom
equipment, but for now, Big Daddy Cleon says, "Use QuipTech or forget
Imperial Contracts."


Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:12:32 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: [TML] Re: Sandcasters

"Peter  H. Brenton"  wrote: "This opens the door to controllable tractor
fields, which will have a
significant effect on the designs of starships. Not to mention being abused
by players to no end."

Since High Guard (and MT) Traveller has had this ability, initially through
repulsor technology, and then through tractors (MT? haven't got the rules
to hand). I'm not sure if TNE had these two....

I think that the TNE description is valid for the above reason!

Players will always abuse things - give them a PGMP and see what I mean!) ;-)

    -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"But everything is still the same; passing the time, passing the blame.
We carry on in the same old way, we'll find out we left it too late one day,
 to say what we meant to say." - Marillion
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:34:31 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [TML] Grav scanner handwaving

Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:00:39 -0600 (CST), Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>

>Unless scientists can get outside the 10 to 100 diameter limit, they may
>well not know anything about jump space at all....

Well, they could know that they could get object to disappear
into it.  That it could be used for FTL travel would be something
else.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:25:17 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: [TML] YugoShips PLC Says NO to ISBA

ImperialNews Service wire 0001:42

 YugoShips PLC Says NO to ISBA

 Vladimir Ivankov, Chairman of the upstart shipbuilding firm
YugoShips PLC announced today that his company will _not_ join the
nacent Imperial Ship Builders Association. 

 "This is blatant attempt to crowd the smaller firms out of the
business. In my experience these Business 'Associations' always seem
to ask higher and higher membership fees, they collude to rig bids,
and are generally a gangsters impediment to true free trade.

Though the ISBA has not finished forming the basic organizational
structure its growing membership disproves this statement completely.
ISBA membership is not only made up of large corporations but small
ones as well.  We also have firms from other parts of the known space.
 We have . 'tiihkeer'reexkaap Industries from the Two Thousands
worlds, FeZUnA of the Confederation of Altec, and EuroAmerican
 Peoples State Spacelines, of Terra.  These are just a few examples of
the growing membership, which growing at a fantastic pace.  The ISBA
stands not for the pushing out of small firms but for supporting them.



 "As an example, hot on the heels of this announcement; comes an
across-the-board, Imperium wide increase in the price of Jump Drives,
the lifeblood technology of interstellar trade. Why Drive prices have
gone up
 to 14 TIMES their old price!"

Though Supply and demand are responsible for most of the cost rise we
believe the ISBA can reduce some known price gouging.

As for CmdrX and his believes that he will come under attack Founder
Ship Works support him and will do every thing to prevented such an
attack.  We do not need the new Imperium being destroyed by those who
seek its growth.

Just before this report was released to us from Founder Ship Works it
was reported that several recently finished Founder 5000 load with
unknown cargo's and the one working Founder Explore lifted off. 
Rumors have it that the Ships are ahead for Plant X.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:32:18 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

              ATTENTION!!!!!!

Reddkneck Arms and Munitions (RAAM) is proud to announce a great line of
nukes for those missiles. 

Are your fighter jocks complaining that those old regular missiles don't
scuff the paint job on those warships? Are those same fighter jocks
whinning about doing only recon missions? 

Well here at Reddkneck Arms and Munitions have solutions for those fighter
jocks.

Take out those det-nuke warheads on those missiles and replace them with
our "Habanero" line of proximity nukes.

Are your weapons engineers being nay sayers, that you can't hit spacecraft
at long distances with a contact warhead, well set the nuke for proximity
blast. Those concussion x-rays will make those enemy warships respect your
missiles, and also give the crew a "dose" that they will remember for long
time, if not forever.

Hell, the "Habanero" line is small enough, you have more than one warhead!!
Imagine the looks on the target warship's crew faces when they get
bracketed by brace of prox nukes.

Reddkneck Arms and Munitions has received many happy E-mails from satisfied
costumers and hate mail from the recipients/survivors.

Just to get the market moving we are offering a "Tyrants Two For One Sale"
and a "Dictator Double Coupon Special". Inquire for more details.

Stay tuned for further RAAM products such as the "Bubba" and "Little Bubba"
missiles.

Remember at Reddkneck Arms and Munitions (RAAM) if its a big battleship
RAMM it. 

Our motto is "Peace Through Superior Massive Overkill"

Reddkneck Arms and Munitions (RAAM) is located at Liberty Hall/Beyond, go
past the Spinward Marches, and just follow the glowing planets and cratered
starships. 

First time customers will receive a free radiation counter, absolutely free!!!

Easy credit and financing available, we accept valuable metals, credits,
and lost kittens.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
The following the is listing of TL-15 nukes, taken from a article by Bertil
Jonell and Guy Garnett, the volumes and mass were recalculated using 3G3
using Striker shell sizes for the various yields. Additional yields were
calculated beyond the original article. At various Tech levels the only
values that change are the volumes and mass, penetrations remain constant.

Remember to get the USP for the CSC pen divide by ten.

TL 15 Prox Nukes                            Penetration
Yield    Volume m3  Mass Tons  Cost MCr  Contact  Concussion
50t      0.0007     0.008      0.0005    39       30
100t     0.0011     0.012      0.001     44       34
500t     0.0015     0.017      0.005     57       45
1kt      0.0021     0.023      0.01      63       51
2kt      0.0028     0.031      0.02      71       57
5kt      0.0036     0.040      0.05      83       65
10kt     0.0046     0.051      0.1       93       74
20kt     0.0058     0.063      0.2       106      83
50kt     0.0071     0.078      0.5       121      96
100kt    0.0086     0.094      1         135      108
200kt    0.0103     0.113      2         150      119
500kt    0.0122     0.134      5         171      137
1Mt      0.0143     0.158      10        184      155
2Mt      0.0168     0.185      20        211      170
5Mt      0.0194     0.214      50        241      197
10Mt     0.0224     0.246      100       260      221
20Mt     0.0256     0.281      200       297      244
50Mt     0.0290     0.319      500       339      282
100Mt    0.0327     0.360      1000      366      317
200Mt    0.0368     0.405      2000      417      349
500Mt    0.0412     0.453      5000      476      404
1,000Mt  0.0459     0.505      10000     514      453
2,000Mt  0.0511     0.5620     20000     587      499
5,000Mt  0.5660     0.6230     50000     670      577

For more details and specifics you will have to get 
"More Missiles For Traveller: The New Era" 
by Bertil Jonell and Guy Granett

Happy missile designing.




- ------------------------------------------------------
(c)Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:51:29 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] ISBA: SSN interview with Hengabar Spofulam

Sylean Shipping News, Year 1 Day 42

Interview: Hengabar Spofulam, CEO of Famille Spofulam

        As part of our ongoing series of interviews with industry
personalities, today we bring you an interview with Hengabar Spofulam, CEO
of the Famille Spofulam Group and patriarch of the extended kin group that
owns and runs it.  Our reporter met with Mr. Spofulam in his luxurious
offices on FSG's orbital corporate headquarters:

SSN:  Mr. Spofulam...

HS: Please... call me Hengabar.

SSN:  Right.  Hengabar.  Very well, we'd like to begin by asking about your
impressions of the inaugural meeting of the ISBA; how did it go?

HS: Very well, all told.  While there were a wide variety of companies
present, the divergent corporate cultures didn't prove to be too much of a
problem.  Everybody got along just fine.  It was a pleasure to see our old
clients Venn and Eckil finally getting into the building end of the
business, too.  Those two sure know how to make a buck while having a good
time, let me tell you...  we're really going to have to watch our backs
with those two around, heh heh.

SSN: You mean Venn Beyer and Eckil Suristen?  But what about all the
rumours of their shady dealings and substance abuse?

HS: Pah!  You can't get ahead in business without stepping on a few toes...
while Vennie and Eck might be a little, er, _flamboyant_ in terms of their
personal style, they're pretty sharp operators nonetheless.  And before you
bring up those ridiculous criminal charges, let's just say that in our
system that you're innocent until proven guilty unless you're as successful
as those two, in which case everyone calls you guilty 'cause they're
jealous.  In fact, I think that the charges were complete fabrications
machinated by their competitors; that sort of abuse of the legal system is
despicable...

SSN: But what about FSY's high-profile lawsuits against Rohzeicollis
Aagaporniz, head of Ling Standard's shipbuilding division?

HS: That's completely different!  Aagaporniz was defaming us in the press,
and we had to take steps to preserve our good name!  It's not like we were
acting in restraint of trade, Bog forbid...

SSN: Er, right.  Well, other than that, what were your impressions of the
ISBA meeting?

HS: Well, there weren't any rocks lying about the place, so we were all
safe from ol'Arameth <chuckles>.

SSN: You mean Sir Arameth Gridlore?  Is there any truth to the rumours that
you two, well, to put it bluntly, hate each other's guts?

HS: Naaaw... not a bit of it.

SSN: Now, what about the comments made by some ISBA participants that your
remarks about the ISBA implied that you envisaged it having a
union-busting, lobbying, and price-fixing role?

HS: <laughs contemptuously> Bah.  What part of freedom of association,
freedom of contract, and freedom of association don't they understand?  A
new era is dawning, sonny.  With the coming galacticization of the Imperial
economy, the only enterprises that are going to survive are those that are
lean and mean and hungry; and union shops are anything but.  We find that
we can build ships for less in our non-union operations, and we simply pass
on those savings to the customer...

SSN: But Famille Spofulam has a reputation for being one of the priciest
firms around...

HS: Of course.  We're also one of the best.  And to put it bluntly,
building a Caligula in a union yard would take twice as long and cost more.
I mean, really...  Unions?  Hah!  This is Year 0!  If you aren't with the
program, you bloody well ought to expect debugging!

SSN: Still on the topic of your labour practices, is it true that younger
Spofulam family members are expected to serve in multi-year unpaid
internships in Spofulam businesses?

HS: Well, that's a family matter, so it's private, but lets just say that
my great-grandkids are getting a lot out of the company, in the form of
trust funds and grav bikes  and roofs over their heads, so it's only fair
that they put a little back into the company.  Besides, I think that it
builds character and discipline, and gives them invaluable experience for
when they're ready to join management...

SSN: Right...  finally, what do you have to say about the rumours
circulating about difficulties with FSY's first mass-market effort, the
CDB-1, that's it's completely uneconomical?

HS: Well, what do you expect?  You get designers that are used to building
racing grav cycles, and tell them to build an air raft, you're going to get
one hell of an air raft, let me tell you... <chuckles>  But seriously, we
here at HQ are taking the CDB-1 project fairly seriously.  We had the
entire design tem away for a re-orientation seminar prior to the project...

SSN: The news along the grapevine is that it was actually a mass
detoxification cure...

HS: That's just a load of crap!  Those stories are just a bunch of
malarkey; sure the boys like to party, but the rumours about rampant
substance abuse in the design bureau were just that, and if we find out
who's spreading them, you can bet they'll be hearing from our legal
department!  But anyhow, back to the CDB-1, yes, the design boys are going
to be reworking it from the ground up; the concept is as sound as they
come; it was just the implementation that was a little too upscale...  I
mean if YugoShips PLC tried to muscle into our end of the market, it'd take
them a while to adapt,too...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:51:25 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] CDB-1: Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not an accountant!

Ethan Henry wrote:

>
>Financial information:
>
>>Down payment: 13.92 Mcr
>>Monthly payment: 290 Kcr
>>Monthly crew salaries: 16 Kcr
>>Monthly life support costs: 41,200 Kcr at full occupancy
>>Annual maintenance costs: 69.6 Kcr per annum, 5.8 Kcr per month
>>Total monthly costs: 332.4 Kcr
>
>353, you forgot to re-total everything.

        Wups...


>
>>Maximum monthly revenues: 466 Kcr (at 142 Kcr from cargo (total cargo
>>capacity less 5 tons for mail times 1,000 cr/ton), 25 Kcr from mail, 60 Kcr
>>from 6 High passengers, 6 Kcr from 6 Low passengers, for 233 Kcr a trip at
>>full capacity times 2 trips per month).
>
>Um, nope. You've double-counted cargo. Cargo is 71 Kcr a trip.
>2 trips per month. Right now, you're losing 29 KCr a month.
>

        D'oh!


>>Breakeven point: 2 trips per month, with cargo hold full (of cargo), no
>>mail, with 1.5 High
>>passengers per trip and the ship will make a negligible profit.
>
>Again, something needs to be tweaked to get this in the black.
>Did you run expenses using refined or unrefined fuel?
>


        Geez... no; I completely forgot about refuelling.  Methinks I'm
going to go back to the drawing board.  OTOH, I think that this points out
a problem with SSDS and the T4 rules; the CDB-1 is a plain, plain vanilla
ship, with pretty minimal capabilities, but it can't make money according
to the T4 rules.  I figure it's a case of the econ rules being built around
the TLAR designs in the rulebook.

        I'm going to try for a redesign tonight.  If it doesn't come out in
the green I'm going to adopt the $4,000 cr/ton as a house rule in my
campaign if anyone survives this week...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:51:34 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDD Competition Request

        As per Steve Charlton's request, here are the THUDDD
rules/guidelines/things that you might want to abide by.  Note the update
on econ... seems I forgot fuel costs too:

Use Wildstar's Improved USD Format (appended below).

Append the following economic information:

1) Financing costs: as per p.96 of the T4 manual, assume a 20% down
payment, with monthly payments of 1/240th of the cost of the ship for 480
months.  Put in amount of down payment and monthly payment.

2) Monthly crew salaries (as per the crew salary table on p.113 of the T4
manual).  For those who don't have the T4 manual, pilots earn 6,000
cr/month, Navigators 5,000 cr/month, Engineers 4,000/month, Medics
2,000/month, and Gunners 1,000 cr/month.  Use the Skill-1 numbers to
reflect possibility of owner-operator(s) lowering costs... it's a
compromise.

3) Monthly life support costs: 2,000 cr/2-week trip per occupied stateroom,
200 cr/2-week trip per low berth (see p.97 T4 manual).  Double these to
give monthly cost of full occupancy.

4) Annual maintenance costs: 1/1000th of the total cost of the starship per
annum.  Divide this by 12 to give a monthly figure.

5) Refuelling costs; use refined fuel numbers if the ship doesn't have
purification facilities, unrefined otherwise.  Calculate two fills per
month.

6) Total monthly costs: Add up all of the monthly costs above.  This is
what you've got to earn in order to break even.

7) Maximum monthly revenues: at 1,000 cr/ton of cargo, how much revenue
will it generate per trip at 100% capacity?  Likewise, factor in passengers
if carried (10,000 cr for a high passage, 8,000 for a medium, and 1,000 for
a low passage), and mail (5,000 cr/ton up to 5 tons if the ship is armed).
Calculate the total maximium revenue assuming full passenger occupancy and
5 tons of mail (don't forget to subtract 5 tons worth of cargo to make room
in the hold for the mail).

8) Breakeven point: at 1,000 cr/ton, how many tons of cargo/how many
passengers  must be carried in order to meet the total monthly costs.

>        Here's Wildstar's Improved USD post:
>
>
>
>Please read over this, and let me know what you think.
>
>
>Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System)
>
>Tons: ### Std (Config)    Volume: ###### m^3           Cost: #### MCr
>Crew: ####                High/Mid Pass: ####          Low: ##
>Cargo: ## Std             Controls: Type (Bridge)      TL: ##
>
>## Size                               ## Jump Drive (## Std/Pc Fuel)
>                                      ## Maneuver (Type, ## Mw)
>##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##    ## Power Plant (#x ##Mw)
>##x BatteryName (##) ##/##            ## Fuel (Scoop ##, Refine ##)
> w/ ## MissileName #/# #G##           ## Meson Screen (## Mw)
>                                      ## Sandcasters (#### Cans)
>##x LaunchFacility (Craft)            ## Nuclear Damper
>##x HangarFacility (Craft)            A# P# J# Sensors (# Stealth/Cloak)
>                                      ## Armor, ## Structure
>
>Crew Detail: ## Command, ## Sensors, ## Gunners, ## Engineer, ## Steward
>             ## Troops, etc as needed ...
>
>Notes: Explanations and details of the above as needed.
>
>Additional comments and description of the ship may follow in additional
>paragraphs.   USPs and comments for carried craft follow.
>
>
>Thoughts on USPs in general:
>I think the description and notes are much better at the end, rather than at
>the top (above the name or class).  This allows the start of an entry to be
>visually distinctive - much easier for the referee to locate when he or she
>needs the information in a hurry.
>
>Generally, a USP will be for either a single ship (in which case the ship
>name should appear in the title), or for an entire class (in which the class
>name should appear instead of the ship name).  For example, "Empress Marava
>Free Trader" (a single ship), or "Beowulf-class Free Trader" (a class).
>
>Particularly for designs that will be shared with others, the design system
>used (QSDS, SSDS, or something else) should be noted.  It's convenient to
>put it up in the title.
>
>This is just a personal thing, but I prefer the units to appear after the
>number (just like they taught me in Engineering school), instead of before
>it.  I'll concede that the other way is easier for spreadsheets, though.
>It's no big deal to me either way.
>
>You can consider "Std" to stand for "Standard Tons Displacement".  ;-)
>
>IF the ship has a bridge, you should note "(Bridge)" after the controls.
>Advanced designs with things like CIC (Combat Information Center), Fighter
>Control Bridge, Fire Control Bridge, or Flag Bridge should mention them on
>the controls, or (if there isn't room), in the notes.
>
>I'm undecided on the way of formatting the second half of the entry.  The
>original (T4) USP had them as "## Rating", but many people seem to prefer
>"Rating: ##".  I don't particularly care, but think that the first MIGHT be
>easier to read quickly.
>
>The Jump drive should be rated in parsecs, and include the number of dTons
>of fuel per parsec jumped (this is easy to figure, but is nice to add, since
>for some designs the ship may have fuel for more than one jump).
>
>Maneuver drive should also specify what type of drive (Fusion Rocket,
>HEPlaR, T-Plate) it is.  If the ship does NOT have Contra-Grav, this should
>also be noted in the maneuver drive line (as "No CG").  The default
>assumption is that most or all ships in Traveller have contra-grav, since it
>makes landings and takeoffs much easier and safer.
>
>Knowing the output of the power plant in Mw is a nice thing to have; for
>QSDS designs, it's helpful to put something like "2x100Mw" or "100Mw+50Mw".
>
>Fuel should be listed in DISPLACEMENT TONS!  If scoops or refining
>capability is present, list the capacity (in dtons scooped per hour, or
>dtons refined per hour), like "Scoop 150, Refine 10" or "S 150, R 10".
>
>Sandcaster rating should include the total number of cans available.
>
>Sensor ratings should include a note about stealth or masking (if
>installed).  For future expandability, this entry should be "-1 Stealth" or
>"-3 Masking" (currently the only available types are stealth for -1DM or
>masking for -3DM, but others may be possible in the future).
>
>I strongly recommend adding the crew detail, no matter what format you
>use for your USPs.  Knowing the crew detail helps a LOT when trying to
>decide if the ship is suitable for a given party.
>
>
>Battery listings.  Yes, well.  I'm advocating a new format of the battery
>listing, that also does away with the fire-control rating.  It's a bit
>different than the current one, so bear with me while I explain:
>
>This is the format for a laser, particle acellerator, or meson gun battery:
>##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##
>Example:
> 1x Laser Carronade (+4) 1/4-1-1-0
>
>The first number ("1x") is the number of such batteries installed; on a
>large ship, you could easily fill the page by listing all 30 or so laser
>batteries individually.  The text ("Laser Carronade") describes the weapon
>system.  The number in parentheses is the total bonus (for fire-control,
>rate of fire, or other factors) for this battery.  For current design
>systems, just put the appropriate Fire Control Rating here, since that's the
>only bonus that applies.  This will let you mix "civilian" fire-control
>rating 0 weapons with "military" weapons on the same ship.  The last 5
>numbers are the hits and penetration of the weapon; the first number (in
>front of the slash) is the number of hits.  This is the number of rolls on
>the damage tables if the weapon hits.  For all current lasers, the damage
>is 1, and for all current particle acellerators and meson guns, it's 2.  The
>last 4 numbers are the penetration at each range.  Please use dashes to
>separate these numbers, not slashes, even with the old USP format!
>
>This is the format for a missile battery:
>##x BatteryName (##) ##/##
>w/ ##/##x MissileName #/# #G##
>Example:
> 1x Missile Barbette (+4) 20/20
> w/ 20 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12
>
>The "1x", text, and fire-control bonus mean the same as above.  The last two
>numbers on the first line ("20/20") refer to the number of missiles that can
>be launched by the battery in one turn, and the number that can be guided
>simultaneously.  This battery (which has 4 turrets and 5 MFDs), has 20
>launch tubes, and can guide 20 missiles at once.
>
>The second line specifies the type of missiles available (if a battery is
>loaded with multiple types, each type needs its own line.  The first symbol
>("w/") simply means "with".  The next number ("20") is the number of
>missiles available.  The text ("Guided DetLaser") is the name of the missile,
>and gives the guidance type.  The next group ("1d6/2") gives the number
>of hits (rolls on the damage table) and penetration of the missile (current
>detonation-laser missiles have 1d6 hits, while all other types do 1 hit).
>The last group ("6G12") gives the performance of the missile: this missle
>can make 6Gs acelleration, and has enough fuel for a total of 12G-turns
>(generally 6Gs for 2 turns).
>
>
>Finally, I've also proposed a way to detail the ship's facilities and
>carried craft.  Each line specifies the number of such facilities installed,
>names them, and names or describes the craft carried.  Here are some
>examples:
>
> 1x Launch Port (50-ton fighter)
> 2x Launch Tube (50-ton Fighter)
>24x Spacious Hangar (50-ton Fighter)
>
>This describes a ship (a carrier, perhaps) that has a single launch port for
>use when the dual launch tubes are blocked or inoperable, and hangars for
>24 50-ton fighters.
>
>A subsidized Merchant might well be listed with:
>
> 1x Streamlined Grapple (20-ton Boat)

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 20:23:55 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: QSDS 1.5

	
>I'm pleased to announce that QSDS 1.5 is now available, in plenty of time
>for the first THUDDD competition.  This is NOT the much-talked-about
>"Version 2" - this is the same QSDS, but with all known errors (including
>the drive costs) ruthlessly eliminated.  Also, I've updated the USD
>description to match the new uSD format, and made corresponding changes
>to many of the tables.
>

Except one:  The fuel tankage for HEPlaR drives is still wrong.  The
volumes listed on the new chart are sufficient only for *one* hour of
operation, not 20.  I'm assuming the changes are intended to bring QSDS
into line with SSDS/FFS.  If According to FFS and SSDS, a 1 dTon HEPlaR
drive requires 140MW of power and consumes 35 kl (2.5 dTons) of fuel /per
hour/.  If you want 20 hours of endurance for a drive this size, you'll
need 50 dTons of fuel.

Don't get me wrong, though.  QSDS 1.5 is very good.  It's just not
error-free, though (yet).


Jeff
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 12:59:22 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Revised USP

The new USP is an excellent change.  However, I'd like to propose one
additional change to the system.

Regarding HEPlaR-equipped starships (Yes, I still try to use HEPlaR), I
believe the Maneuver drive entry should include information for fuel usage,
duration at maximum burn, and the number of G-turns carried (a "turn" being
defined in terms of whatever combat system you happen to be using).

For example:
	## Maneuver (HEPlaR, ## Mw, ## hours @ max G, ## G-turns available)

Wherein the number of G-turns available would be equal to the # of hours at
max. G, multiplied by the rating of the Drive, multiplied again by the
number of turns in an hour.  I use 30 minute turns, so a 2G HEPlaR drive
with 10 hours of fuel endurance at max G would have a total of 10 x 2G x
2turns/hour = 40 burns of available maneuvering fuel, at 1G per burn.


Thoughts?
Jeff
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:55:06 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: [TML] [Fwd: FCC Internet Access Charge Reform]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------345E36E22AD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Apologies to those across the ponds for posting something absolutely
useless to them but the attached email from my Web access provider
shows the posts regarding internet charge increases are serious. It
*may* impact some folks' web access (like mine) somewhat drastically.

- --------------345E36E22AD
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <md5:4768A64D0770D0FDA477ECA4123CA0E4>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:00:00 -0600
From: FlashNet Communications
Organization: FlashNet Communications
Subject: FCC Internet Access Charge Reform

Dear FlashNet customer,

We are writing you this to inform you of a very important matter 
currently under review by the FCC.  Your local telephone company has
filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your 
internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder 
the operation of the telephone network.  

It is our belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required
to pay additional per minute charges.  The FCC has created an email box for
your comments; responses must be received by February 13, 1997.  Send
your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think.

Alert everyone in your addressbook, and most importantly the subject
line should have "CC Docket No 96-263". FULL NAME AND ADDRESS SHOULD
ACCOMPANY THE EMAIL otherwise it will be deleted. Again, the email to FCC is
isp@fcc.gov 

More information can be found at the FCC website:
	http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html

Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all our
voices may be heard.

Thanks for your time.

******************************************
M. Scott Leslie
President - FlashNet Communications
a division of WebSite Management Co., Inc.
******************************************


- --------------345E36E22AD--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #941
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 12 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 942



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Is the ISBA Good for Business?
Re: [TML] Metres?
[TML] Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
[TML] Arcadia Shipyards Press Release
[TML] Inthe Ancient base
[TML] ISBA News Conference
[TML] Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
[TML] Powered Pants!!!
[TML] QSDS 1.5 and design-related questions
[TML] OT:  Wargamer Question
[TML] Critical Hit
[TML] Re: Shipbuilder decries new industry association
[TML] imported tech
[TML] fire, fuel for...
[TML] Times interviews Sir Jerami

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 20:57:33 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: [TML] Is the ISBA Good for Business?

Rannoch asks "Is the ISBA Good for Business?"
  by Arle Flanigan

(Auburn, Sylea) Lady Regan Reid, speaking from Rannoch House today,
expressed concern over the formation of the Imperium Ship Builders
Association, "Industry Associations often turn into anti-competitive
cartels.  Knowing many of the founding members we are sure that isn't the
objective here.  Still we view the situation with some concern."  She went
on to say that Rannoch wishes the ISBA well, but that the conglomerate will
not be applying for membership, at this time.

Rannoch House, is the parent of several subsidiaries involved in the design
and manufacture of ship components.  The best known of the Rannoch
subsidiaries are Rannoch Reactors (RR) - the largest independent
manufacturer of fusion power plants on Sylea, and Michaelson Coil and
Impeller, Ltd (MCI) - a well respected maneuver and jump drive
manufacturer.  None of the Rannoch subsidiaries build ships, commercially,
but as Lady Reid reminded the assembled
reporters, "We don't build the ships, we make the ships fly."

This reporter asked about rumors that Rannoch is about to enter the
shipbuilding business, Lady Reid refused to comment on speculations
concerning the future.  She added, "We have a good working relationship
with our customers, the shipbuilding companies. Regardless, of what the
future holds we want to maintain that friendly, and profitable
relationship."

When asked about recent price increases on Jump Drives instituted by QSDS
Corp, Lady Reid commented, "QSDS had to increase their prices to meet their
costs.  They have been trying to buy market share for several months with
ridiculously low prices for inefficient, perhaps even sub-standard drives. 
I think it's obvious they have discovered they can't make any money that
way.  Our higher prices have always reflected the quality of our drives,
and we don't anticipate price increases, at this time.  In fact, the
research division at MCI is working on some promising new technologies that
might lower both maneuver and jump drive prices in the future."

She refused further comment.

- -30-

Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 21:35:24 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] Metres?

On 02/11/97 at 02:34 PM,  Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM> said:

> >> Yeah, it has something to do with the spectral 
> wavelength of some element  or other...I think.  OTOH, we 
> could just say the meter is the length of the  Emperor's 
> septre, or the width of his Iridium seat or something.  <g> <<

> 'ey! Are you saying our Beloved Emperor has a fat arse?

Damn straight!  Biggest seat in the Seat of Government.  Many's the time
Cleon has plopped himself down on the throne saying, "It takes a big arse
to fill this chair, and many an Ass has tried!"

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 23:10:33 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
> The following the is listing of TL-15 nukes, taken from a article by Bertil
> Jonell and Guy Garnett

I would like to emphasize that I was not involved in the production of the
table in Sam's post, and have not checked his numbers or his conversions.
Sam's table is NOT official, and also is NOT a part of my recommended set of
variants (such as QSDS 1.5 and RPSC).

> the volumes and mass were recalculated using 3G3
> using Striker shell sizes for the various yields.

What a combo!  I'm not sure the numbers mean anything, though.

> Remember to get the USP for the CSC pen divide by ten.

This is almost certainly wrong, for any version of the USP.

It's worth noting (since I didn't see it in Sam's post) that the original
article also suggested that "contact" hits be 4 _levels_ of difficulty
harder than an ordinary weapon task, and "concussion" (which seems to be what
the original article termed "near proximity") be 3 levels more difficult.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 23:57:11 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Arcadia Shipyards Press Release

Arcadia Shipyards announced today that they have begun design work on a
series of vessels to meet the Imperial Ship Builders' Association (ISBA)
"Far Trader" specification.

"The design is a refinement of our existing line of starships", said
Mr. Kodai Tadashi, President of Arcadia Shipyards.  "The bulk of the design
work is finished, and expect to have a final specifcation and holographic
walkthrough available to the ISBA and interested memebers of the press
within a week."

Several members of the press were quick to ask Mr. Tadashi for his reaction
to the statements by Generica Shipyards and YugoShips PLC. accusing the ISBA
of being a union-breaking or monopolistic cartel.  He accused Generica and
YugoShips of "creating trouble" in the industry where none existed before.

"Arcadia Shipyards has always been able to offer superior design and
workmanship on our products while holding the line on prices due to our
strong vertical integration througout the entire starship design and
construction process", he said.

"I believe that we can offer starships that are superior in design,
materials, and workmanship at prices that equal or better our competition."
Mr. Tadashi included YugoShips PLC and Generica in that declaration, saying
"Both companies are well-known for producing second-rate vessels at low
prices.  If you look at Arcadia's offerings, you will see that a
high-quality starship can be had for practically the same price."

Quelling roumors that the ISBA is intended as a "union breaking"
organization, Mr. Tadashi noted that Arcadia Shipyards has typically enjoyed
good relations with the unions.  "Although Arcadia is an 'open' shop [union
membership is not required], 43% of our employees choose to be represented
by a union or craft organization, and we are not seeking to change our
relationship with the organized labor force."

"Our workers are amoung the most productive in the industry, and are our
most valuable assets."  Mr. Tadashi offered for proof of this the facts that
Arcadia's pay and benefit packages are above the average for the industry,
and the company's lay-off rate is the lowest for any shipyard in the
subsector.



Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:19:14 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: [TML] Inthe Ancient base

Yes, I'm still playing the Spinward Marches. I'm curious about a
reference I came across in a posting to this list a while back.
It mentioned that there was an Ancient site on Inthe. It went
on to discuss mounds of earth tens of kilometers in size that 
covered roughly a thousand square kilometers. In the center of the
area was a volcanic crater, covered with water.

Does anyone have more information on this site? I'd hate to have
to reinvent the wheel.

Thanks

- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: 11 Feb 97 23:26:30 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: [TML] ISBA News Conference

042-0000:  Solomani Shipbuilding Firm Announces Intent to Join ISBA

Alpher/Solomani Rim: Crashland City News

  Following in the wake of enormous profits reaped from sales of the highly
successful Kestrel and Corvette lines of military starships, the local
shipbuilding firm "Custom Built Wreckage" announced its intent to join the
ISBA.
  
  "This represents an exciting new chapter in the history of this company,"
Chairman and CEO Grabow Freem said at a recent press conference.  "This is
the first time CBW has participated in a major Pan-Imperial project of this
scale." 

  Since the announcement, Custom Built Wreckage stock (code CBW) gained
6.25 points on the ISX boards, jumping from Cr32.75 to Cr39 per share. 

  When asked which project he would prefer to work on, President Freem geve
the following comments: "As you know, the majority of our production is
dedicated to military ships, but I feel we are ready to begin production of
civilian starships.  It would greatly expand our market and allow us to
reap immense profits and become even more obscenely wealthy.  HA
HAHAHAHAHA!" 
  
  President Freem then ordered another Pan-Galactic Garle Blaster and
adjourned the meeting.

  ISBA representatives could not be reached for comment.

  After recovering from his hangover, President Freem called a press
conference to announce that Custom Built Wreckage will begin production of
two new starship classes, the CBW-A-0000-1 Far Trader and the CBW-C-0000-2
"Claymore" Mercenary Cruiser "yesterday, dammit!"

  Actual production is expected to begin within the week.

  ISBA representatives still could not be reached for comment.


- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:21:18 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

At 11:10 PM 2/11/97 -0500, Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:
>"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
>> The following the is listing of TL-15 nukes, taken from a article by Bertil
>> Jonell and Guy Garnett
>
>I would like to emphasize that I was not involved in the production of the
>table in Sam's post, and have not checked his numbers or his conversions.
>Sam's table is NOT official, and also is NOT a part of my recommended set of
>variants (such as QSDS 1.5 and RPSC).
>

Well up to the 100kt range the conversion is performed using the 3G3
conversion as per the T4 conversion section ie a 100kt has of
25000/2(hardness of TNE Steel)=12500. 12500^.33=22.49. 22.49*6(CSC Steel
Hardness)=134.94 rounded to 135.

That is way all of the one from 100kt to 50t were figured. The ones greater
than 100kt were extrapolated. If you can provide the formula to get the
results you got I will happy and eager to make any corrections that might
be needed.

I never stated that any of the values were OFFICIAL just as they were. You
did not quote the rest of the paragraph

..Additional yields were calculated beyond the original article....

I never stated that you were directly involved did I? Please check my
numbers if you feel they are out of line, but give the formula so I can do
the same to yours.<G>

I also never said they were for any QSDS X.x or RPSC did I.

But 3G3 is the OFFICIAL nonstarship weapons design system.

Sounds like you are getting a little too tightly wound up over making sure
that you are disclaiming involvement

>> the volumes and mass were recalculated using 3G3
>> using Striker shell sizes for the various yields.
>
>What a combo!  I'm not sure the numbers mean anything, though.
>

Well Striker has a TL 15 100kt nuke as shell size 25-9(for TL)=16 cm. I
used a table from 3G3 taking 1.6cm, 3 to 1 shell gives a volume of 8.58 cc
but since the shell I want is 16cm, I have to multiple by 1000 to get the
volume of 16cm shell= 8,580cc. This rule is stated in the 3G3 book to get
shells larger than listed. One cubic meter is 100*100*100=1,000,000cc. So
dividing 8,580 by 1,000,000 is 0.00858 m3. I used the sg of depleted
uranium listed in 3G3 which is 11, so 11 * 85,580=94,380g. 94,380g divided
by 1000 to get kilos and then by 1000 to get metric tons=0.094t

So TL 15 100kt is .00858 m3 and masses .094 metric tons.

This the same format used for the volumes if the shells ranging from 7cm to
16cm. The shells greater than 100kt followed the progression in striker.

Cost is yield times 10,000cr or .01MCr plus cost of HE shell of the same
size. I did not factor up the cost of the HE shell due the small additional
cost that it adds.
  
>> Remember to get the USP for the CSC pen divide by ten.
>

You are correct, the table that Greg Porter sent with the message titled
"Greasy Tidbits.." is

I think in starship terms, penetrations would convert to USP as follows:

Pen		USP
0-16		0-0-0-0
17-20		1-0-0-0
21-25		2-0-0-0
26-29		3-0-0-0
Going beyond this but following the progression is
Pen           USP
30-35         4-0-0-0
36-40         5-0-0-0 
and so on.
A pen of 135 well it off the scale for right now.

>This is almost certainly wrong, for any version of the USP.
>
>It's worth noting (since I didn't see it in Sam's post) that the original
>article also suggested that "contact" hits be 4 _levels_ of difficulty
>harder than an ordinary weapon task, and "concussion" (which seems to be what
>the original article termed "near proximity") be 3 levels more difficult.
>
Yes I referred readers to get the article for further details. 

But you see for may purposes, that increased difficulty does not matter. I
will use multiple warhead packages in a 10m3 warhead package I can put
10,217 warheads of 50t Thermonuclear force at cost of 5.1 MCr. That warhead
package will hit just like your cannister rounds. Yes a Nuclear shotgun!!!!
<G>

I can also put 831 warheads of 100kt at cost of 831 MCr, yes very expensive
but with pen of 135 equal to 800cm of Toughness 15 CSC armor, it will ruin
the 1,000MCr warships day for good.

As for how they go boom that will released later with the Reddkneck Arms
and Munitions "Bubba" and "Little Bubba" CANON missile systems.

I am attempting to put the teeth back in missiles and fighters for T4, I
think that it is going in the right direction.

Guy using 3G3 the volume of 10mm sphere is .524cm3 times a sg of 11 for
depleted uranium is 5.76g your article list the cannister rounds as 10mm
10g titanium spheres, what did you use for the sg of titanium?


- ------------------------------------------------------
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:19:49 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Powered Pants!!!

	I have been trying to work up T4 specks for the Tec Trouser and was trying
to work out the stats for TL 12 Aug Battle Dress as a refence to see if I was
messing up and for some resson I was not able to get the same results as the
ones listed I used the flowing maths

Accl
The old math
([.034*.3]/.91)*3000 = 33.62....
I say no I must have do some thing wrong maybe
The new math
(.034/.91)*3000=112.087....*.3 = 33.62.....
That's it I give up Maybe It was the  THAT LOOKS ABOUT RIGHT SYSTEM
so here it is

yzrac aedi Ltd.

TL 12 Powered pants....my way;-)
item                               vol          mass           pow
         sa       $
suit(legs,backpack 0      +1.5            -                 -            1
       -
Fusion+ plant .05mw       .01          .021            +.05        .05
       75cr
Fuel                                .0015       .015              -
           -       10.5cr
Human legs                      .5             .1                  -
            -    (who am I to judge)
.0240625 cm Sd armor   .00048     .0072            -              -
       67.2 cr
Walker Prop                    .0896           ?             .032         .48
     4032 cr
Road grid                        .0015       .75                  -
                  150000cr

totals                         .60308          .8932         .032
         .53    154184.7 cr

Accl
([.032*.3]/..8932)*3000= 32.2.....meters per turn

Performance
square root of(.032*.8932)= .1
 effictive strangth 13 or so
The powered pants are a new item  just entering the open market made to  over
come physcial disabitlys the product was snaped up by a none to bright
exucutive and sold as the newest sports fad with slogons like  "Anybody can
drive to work but it takes a real man to run" and " See the road less
travled"  with  not alot of speed  for in city travel the pants are not
expected to do well on Selya a large percent of there profit will most likey
comes form teenage fads and people who think they are more useful then they
are.    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:18:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: [TML] QSDS 1.5 and design-related questions

Some oddities of QSDS 1.5 I've noticed:

 * No rules exist on how to carry vehicles (like, say, an air/raft).
   The smallest standard hangar is ten tons displacement; vehicles
   can be under a ton and a half.  Are we just shoving them into
   the cargo bay?  Then how much space do they fill?
 * If electronics crew are 0.2 or more, you round up.  Since the
   most basic TL12 sensors and commo total 0.8, every ship should
   have at least one electronics crewman.  [Not a problem, exactly,
   but an observation.]
 * Command crew are "rounded to the nearest whole number".  So, 
   do we round up or down at 0.5?  I think this used to read
   "rounded down to the nearest whole number".  Otherwise, we
   get dedicated command officers on three or four person ships,
   which seems contrary to what we'd want.
 * The rule allowing reduced crews for ships under 200 tons is
   not clear.  What jobs can be eliminated?  What happens if the
   ship then enters combat (or a dangerous situation) anyway?  
   Is operating with reduced crew permitted on commercial vessels?
 * In a non-QSDS matter, what are Electronics crew paid?  Or
   Command crew (officers)?  TNE paid Pilots, Navigators, and
   Electronics the same; Command was double that.  So, are we
   talking Cr 5000 for Electronics and Cr 10000 for Command,
   for instance?  (I don't think I'd take Command that high, 
   maybe the pilot pay at Cr 6000 makes more sense....)
   
  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:40:40 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: [TML] OT:  Wargamer Question

This is off topic, but I figure that many of you, like me, play war 
games as well.  I want to see if any of you fellow wargamers can help 
me.

I need help with a computer wargame called V for V:  Utah Beach.  
This is one incredible wargame, but I was unlucky enough to buy the 
first version of the game.  There is a patch upgrade available that 
will enhance the game--especially the two player intelligence 
option--and, I'd like to see if any of you have it.

This particular patch will only work on Utah Beach.  I have the one 
that updates Market Garden and Velikye Luki.

If anyone could help, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Kenneth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:19:26 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: [TML] Critical Hit

I've been pretty quiet lately because I haven't had a lot of time to 
share with my fellow Traveller fanatics, but tonight I was browsing 
the IG web site and stumbled across proposed errata for the critical 
hit rule in T4.

This was in my House Rules that I posted some time ago, but I just 
wanted to mention this for those who did not see them.  My group 
really likes our version of this rule.

Instead of the first hit always being considered a critical hit (all 
of the damage from the entire roll is taken randomly from one of the 
three hit point characteristics), we have been doing something a 
little different.  

We didn't like the first hit always being considered a critical hit.  
I understand the meaning behind the rule in that it gives an 
advantage to whoever draws first blood, but what about later in the 
conflict.  Isn't it reasonable that a perfect hit could be achieved 
on a target on, say, the fifth round of combat when the target is 
starting to feel the strain of combat fatigue?

And why tempt "rules-players" to minorly injure themselves only to 
declare later in the combat that they have already taken damage and 
cannot be effected by the first blood critical hit rule.

Our answer to this to allow critical hits when spectacular success is 
rolled.  In this way, it is not automatic.  Indeed, the PCs even live 
longer, and this rule gives a benefit to rolling spectacular success 
in combat.  

Critical hits, under our system, are not automatic the first time a 
character gets damaged, and if several spectacular success are rolled 
against one character (however unlikely), then several critical hits 
can be rolled against him.

You may say that this is too much of an advantage allowing characters 
to usually survive at least one shot in combat.

Well, not so, says I.  We also use expanded medical rules (also in my 
House Rules), and in them, there is a rule for wound deterioriation.  
If medical help is not received in the specified time (longer for 
superfical and minor wounds--shorter time periods for serious and 
critical wounds), then a check is made to see if the wound 
deteriorates.  If this roll is failed, then the character starts 
takeing additional damage until either treatment is received or the 
character dies.

I think that this is a good, realisitic trade off from the rules as 
written in the main book.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 03:17:25 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: [TML] Re: Shipbuilder decries new industry association

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

>        YugoShips PLC is the manufacturer of a line of inexpensive modular
>starships of 200 tons displacement. Widely derided in some quarters for
>having little or no armor and armament, Mr. Ivankov in the past has stated
[...]

Far from deriding him, I think you gotta admire a guy who's willing to take
on such a cartel of high-powered corporations, but who insists on walking
around unarmed and without armor. A brave man, that Ivankov.

Glenn G.

- -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                      <pawn@cam.org>
Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
                  -- Trevor Goodchild

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:18:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: [TML] imported tech

>Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:12:24 -0800
>From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
>Subject: Re: [TML] bargain priced J1 drives
>
>>Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
>>The Tech Level that the Jump Drive is built at should affect it's cost, as
snip...
>> and then count your savings after shipping, handling, customs,
>> piracy, bribery, and entertaining sales reps...
>>         Steven Hudson

>shipyard to make it all work together. Assuming, that is, the
>shipyard manager can be convinced to give it a try.

  Well, yes, that's an issue for shipyard engineers or the ref.
But it does address the original issue within extant material, 
without boundary problems from, for example, -10% per TL mods.
        Have fun with the THUDD,
                                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:25:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: [TML] fire, fuel for...

Hello,
>jump.  How much energy is that?  To fuse ten tons of hydrogen?

  For a somewhat unhelpful article on Traveller engineering and
economics, see Space Gamer #49.

  Compressing hydrogen; presumably you can't significantly at common
TL's, or it would already be done, but if my campaign warranted it,
I'd do it.  As for sponge-like intersticial storage methods, that
brings up the really exciting question of mass.  If 14 m(3) of
titanium stores ten metric tons/displacement tons of hydrogen, great,
but you must buy it, and push the mass around.  Have fun with the math.
(Note, that's from a Striker book 3 fan, it's probably not an issue in T4)

  According to HG, all starships have capacitors equal to 0.5%
of the ship per Jump number.  This may no longer be the case.
I assume that the jump fuel is dumped (somewhere) as coolant
when the capacitors are discharged and the ship enters jumpspace.
Of course, certain CT artifacts may appear to violate J-fuel
requirements to large degrees.

  Good luck with the THUDD, and may the best (large, hooved, herbivore) win.
        Steven Hudson

*The above may or may not reflect my, or anyone else's, opinions*
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:55:17 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: [TML] Times interviews Sir Jerami

For Immediate release 042-0
Times of Sylea interviews Capt. Sir Jerami Danjo (CEO, Phoenix
Corporation) regarding the ISBA

TS: Sir Jerami, the Phoenix Corporation is one of the charter
    members of the ISBA, what do you see as the role of the new
    organisation?

JD: Well, to put it simply, if the new Imperium is going to prosper
    and roll back the Long Night, it's going to need starships. The
    shipbuilding industry is going to be a major growth area of the
    Imperial economy; and quite frankly the health of the industry
    will have a strong influence on the overall health of the economy.
    Given that, its vital that the industry has a single united voice
    at the highest levels. The primary role of the ISBA is to provide
    that voice.

TS: So the ISBA is not a monopolistic cartel?

JD: Certainly not, no more than the Imperial Collage of Surgeons or
    the Bar Association of Sylea are.

TS: What about the recent comments by Hengabar Spofulam, may I quote
    "...to present a common front against the omnipresent threat of
     the organized labour movement, ... by allowing members to work
     towards developing more optimal common pricing agreements.."?
    This would indicate that the ISBA is going to take an anti-union
    position and doesn't on the face of it seem to encourage competition.

JD: Well, this is really two statements, best viewed independently.
    As regards Mr Spofulam's opinions on orgainsed labour, Hengabar
    is renowned as a hardedged negotiator, and FYS is a union free shop;
    but they are but one member of the ISBA. Here at Phoenix, we are
    more than comfortable with unionisation, we feel the higher level
    of productivity one gets from a motivated union worker more than
    makes up for the slightly higher wages. One has to remember that
    ones workforce is any businesses most valuable assest, especially in
    such a highly skilled industry as ours. The bottom line is, you can't
    afford to mistreat your workers, after all there are just so many
    ways a spanner can "accidentally" fall into a multimillion credit
    piece of machinery.

TS: But with respect Sir Jerami, you've not mentioned his comments on
    "common pricing".

JD: Well the industry is highly competative and I can't see that changing.

TS: Would you care to elaborate on that, Sir Jerami?

JD: Certainly, every yard has a bottom line and they have to meet it. But
    the very nature of the industry keeps it honest. Just look at the
    recent IISS scoutship tender, no less than 17 different compeating
    bids. Every contract is fiercely contested and every yard strains to
    get every credit they can off their tender. A cartel is just not going
    to happen nowadays, this is not the bad old days of the mid Sylean era.
    Anyway, the Imperial Ministry of Commerce comes down hard on price
    fixing; just look at what happened to Synor Fusion; a hundred million
    credit fine is a very good incentive to stay honest.

TS: What about the recent increases in Jump drive prices?

JD: Well informed industry commentators had been predicting an increase
    was imminent for some time. Just look at how Lanthinum prices have
    spiralled in the last few years. Then theres the removal of the
    Imperial QSDS subsidy. These things do add up and eventually these
    costs have to be passed on. Hyperspatial contollers have gone up
    in price 300% over the past year alone. These increases have to be
    expected in any growth industry.

TS: But 1400%, doesn't that seem a little exessive?

JD: Well, I will admit, it would seem a little steep to those outside the
    industry, but I can assure you that it is reasonable given the
    circumstances. The IISS were quite happy to accept the increases on
    our P-200EX design; and they are hardly known for throwing money away.

TS: Several smaller yards have expressed concerns that the ISBA will act
    to "freeze" them out of the market, do you have any comment of this?

JD: Small companies are always worried about this; and I can understand
    their concerns. But one just has to look at the companies that have
    joined the ISBA; its not just the big corporates, there are plenty of
    the smaller up and coming players in there too. The ISBA recognises
    that these smaller yards are some of the most inovative and creative
    around. The big corporates like GSbAG, Phoenix, Arcadia etc. with our
    established client base have to be at least a little conservative in
    our approach; where as the smaller yards can afford to be experimental.
    One of the good things about the ISBA will be the increased level of
    support we can give the smaller yards.

TS: You mention that the larger yards have to be conservative in approach,
    do you think the ISBA might act as a break to technological inovation?

JD: Definintely not, the ISBA will be a positive boon to inovation by
    facilitating joint research, technology sharing and cross licencing.
    Just look at the sums spent on R&D; over MCr1,000 by Phoenix alone
    last year. The ISBA will provide a proper clearing house for new
    technologies whilst ensuring proper protection for intellectual
    property.

TS: What about the purchase of Holva Industries shipyards? The new owners
    are widely reputed to have criminal connections. Will the ISBA be able
    to prevent the entry of organised crime into the industry and prevent
    the access of criminal pirates to advanced ships?

JD: Well, Messers Beyer and Suristen have not been convicted of anything;
    and the last time I looked it was still innocent until proven guilty.
    I'm sure if theres anything thats not entirely above boards there,
    they'll be brought to account for it. If there's one thing you can
    be certain of, its that. The Imperial Ministry of Justice may not be
    the fastest organisation around, but they are through and persistant.
    One of the benefits of the ISBA will be in ensuring that proper
    professional and ethical standards are maintained. If there's any
    legitimate cause for concern, the ISBA will be at the forefront of
    exposing it. Any growth industry is going to attract its less than
    savoury elements and you need to have an organisation like the ISBA
    to keep them in check.
    As to piracy, well its self evident that its in the interests of the
    industry to stamp this out. Piracy discourages interstellar shipping;
    and without interstellar shipping theres no need for ship builders.
    I can't see it being a major problem.

TS: Thank you for your time Sir Jerami, I wish the ISBA well.


  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #942
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 12 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 943



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[TML] Re: Metres?
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: [TML] THUDD Competition Request
Re: [TML] Re: things
Fw: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] Inthe Ancient base
[TML] Pan-Imperia Aborts First THUDDD Entry
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
[TML] PBEM on the TML
[TML] Re: The Economics of Ships
Re: [TML] fire, fuel for...
Re:[TML] Re: Shipbuilder decries new industry association
Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML
Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML
[TML] THUDDD 10 month Vote List
[TML] Re: Reddkneck Arms
[TML] THUDD and Mail
[TML] ISBA: Press Release
Re: [TML] Re: Reddkneck Arms
[TML] Aurelian Industries Joins ISBA
Re: [TML] Critical Hit

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:01:02 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: [TML] Re: Metres?

>>> Yeah, it has something to do with the spectral 
>wavelength of some element  or other...I think.  OTOH, we 
>could just say the meter is the length of the  Emperor's 
>septre, or the width of his Iridium seat or something.  <g> <<
>
>'ey! Are you saying our Beloved Emperor has a fat arse?
Hugh Foster

I believe that question will be covered in _Emperor's Arsenal_.

- -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                      <pawn@cam.org>
Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
                  -- Trevor Goodchild

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:20:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

In mail you write:

>> Maybe I'm missing something...I tuned into Bab 5 for about the whole first
>> season, and the beginning of the second, in the hope that the script would
>> improve, or the plots would improve, to no avail.  
>
> Strange.  I too tuned in to B5 the first show (pilot), and I couldn't 
> get through it.  Then I saw a few more from first season, and I just 
> didn't like it.
>
> Then I tuned in again and caught the first episode of season two--and 
> I liked it.  So, I watched a few more episodes, and before long, I 
> was hooked.
>
> The show is just incredible.  Things planted in one season are 
> explained two seasons later.  Character development is just 
> incredible too.  Take the Narns.  When we first saw them they were 
> your typical Klingon-like bad guys.  Then the Centauri decimated 
> their homeworld with mass drivers (how's that for a Traveller 
> connection?) and turned it into slag...and the Narns have come from 
> your two dimensional baddies to very noble and credible allies with a 
> deep religion and brave hearts.

And now that they've been liberated, they've shown that they can be
just as *stupid* as any *real* "underdog" culture. I loved the bit when
the idiot asked G'Kar "What have you suffered?"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:11:20 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDD Competition Request

At 20:51 11/02/1997 -0500, you wrote:

>2) Monthly crew salaries (as per the crew salary table on p.113 of the T4
>manual).  For those who don't have the T4 manual, pilots earn 6,000
>cr/month, Navigators 5,000 cr/month, Engineers 4,000/month, Medics
>2,000/month, and Gunners 1,000 cr/month.  Use the Skill-1 numbers to
>reflect possibility of owner-operator(s) lowering costs... it's a
>compromise.

What about the salaries of electronics operators, stewards and crew
members performing more than one role (the classic steward/gunner)?
CT gives stewards a salary of Cr3,000 per month a hefty sum.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:00:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: things

In mail you write:

>> The Fuzzy books (especially the fuzzy burglars)
>
> Ah yes, those cute two foot tall Fuzzy's..  Just make sure
> you're on their side in a battle.  I'd really like to see another
> novel written about the Fuzzy's.  The one tidbit about their
> origins just wasn't enough.

Well, it seems that Piper's third novel about them contradicts the two
non-Piper Fuzzy books. And on the whole, I prefer his background.

Fuzzies are too small to be highly intelligent, but they are more than
bright enough for some kinds of job. Other than the moral questions
involved in using something that is on average as bright as a 6-10 year
old child in dangerous jobs, they would make *great* scouts. I can see
Fuzzies as part of the crew on survey missions.

ps. I never got a chance to make use of Fuzzies in another area that I
thought they'd fit well. I planned to add them to a D&D campaign.
There's a *reason* why kobolds are so nervous. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 02:07:03 -0500
From: "Bill Beane" <concord-tech@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fw: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

> 
> This info is pretty much all I have on the subject.....but if you want to
> ask me anything, please send me an email to the address listed
> below.....let's not waste TML bandwidth.....
> 

Oops forgot to include my address.....

concord-tech@worldnet.att.net

I shall now refrain from wasting TML bandwidth with this discussion.....


Regards,

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 02:01:50 -0500
From: "Bill Beane" <concord-tech@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

I work for a phone company.....

> >TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN -- SOUND THE CALL TO ARMS!
> >
> >I saw this in the rec.org.sca newsgroup, and -- like the person who
> >posted it -- thought it important enough to pass along. Get your asses
> >in gear & email these guys before it's too late.
> >
> >Yours in service to a free Web,
> 
> How do the phone companies propose to tell the difference between a
> guy who dials up a local Internet provider.....

How do you connect to your ISP.....by dialing a local phone number.....
All calls going to that number can be assessed a per minute charge.....

> 
>    When you think about this logically, it would not be in the best
> interest of phone companies to charge for access.

In the long term it may not be in the best interest of the phone
companies.....
but for now while the communication market as a whole is getting more
competitive.....a quick buck like this type of charge maybe a needed shot
in 
the arm of some companies.....

>    Surely something like *this* would have made major news in the
> business sections of major newspapers, CNN, the wire services, etc. and
> yet I have heard nothing about this before.

It has been mentioned in the Florida Times-Union here in Jacksonville three
times in the last 4 weeks.....

I do not know if has gotten as far as the FCC yet, but I do know that there
have been discussions about some type of per minute charge to offset the
cost of upgrading the infrastructure to ensure that Internet usage does not
tie up local communication resources.....

One item regarding the cable companies and their Internet
access.....although your initial access will be over the cable systems
wires the end point will be a node on the local phone network just as if
you had dialed into a local phone number.....My roommate works for the
local cable company.....

The charge may never materialize but it is being discussed.....

This info is pretty much all I have on the subject.....but if you want to
ask me anything, please send me an email to the address listed
below.....let's not waste TML bandwidth.....


Regards,

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:12:53 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Inthe Ancient base

Zhodani agents report that Erwin Fritz wrote:

- -> Yes, I'm still playing the Spinward Marches. I'm curious about a
- -> reference I came across in a posting to this list a while back.
- -> It mentioned that there was an Ancient site on Inthe. It went
- -> on to discuss mounds of earth tens of kilometers in size that 
- -> covered roughly a thousand square kilometers. In the center of the
- -> area was a volcanic crater, covered with water.
- -> 
- -> Does anyone have more information on this site? I'd hate to have
- -> to reinvent the wheel.
Along the same lines: Does anybody have a complete list of know (by 
general public) and unknown Ancients Sites in the Marches and Deneb 
Sector? Information on where the site is better described would be 
neat, too! Maybe we all could work together to create such a 
List/database on the imperial scale! 
That way, we would finally have all the information collected in one 
place, ready to expand upon, and giving hints on how to describe the 
sites to the players!
Any comments? 
 
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:23:52 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [TML] Pan-Imperia Aborts First THUDDD Entry

A GNN Corporate Report     

     Pan-Imperia Has Failure in First Test, Testing Grounds Damaged

(Hazan, CORE)  Officials at the Pan-Imperia Shipyards and Servicing corporate
headquarters yesterday admitted that their company was responsible for the
recent atmospheric and seismic disturbances felt planet-wide on Hazan earlier
this week. In a press conference, Saadat Abnea, Executive VP for Research 
and Development, reported that both incidents were the result of the failure
of a recent design, the BRRV-1, at Pan-Imperia's southern testing grounds.

"We regret the incident and any damages or inconvieniences it may have
caused to the citizens of Hazan" Abnea stated at the confierence. "In any 
field of expanding knowledge, one must expect more failures than successes, 
it is how we grow as a society. The prototype vehicle we were testing under 
the THUDDD program unfortunately broke up upon reentry into Hazan's atmosphere
and caused extensive damage to our testing grounds upon impact, and the 
loss of both test pilots.

"Our internal investigation leads us to suspect industrial sabotage rather than
failure of design as the cause for this event," Abnea continued. "When 
representatives of Holva arrived on planet to welcome us into the shipbuilding 
industry and express there support for organized labour, we were not then aware
that they had been bought out, or by whom. Had we known, we would have been
more suspicious of their hand delivery of the THUDDD specifications 'as a 
gesture of good will and friendly competition.'  That combined with a sight mis-
understanding as to the nature of the THUDDD designation led to the unforturnate
incident.

"Having obtained a copy of the OFFICIAL THUDDD requirements, I have no doubt
that our crack engineering staff will be working round the clock to produce a 
vehicle that will 'break new ground' even more so than our first design" he
concluded
to the nervous laughter of all present.

Pan-Imperia's first attempt at spacecraft design, the BRRV-1 (known under the
working title of Big Rock Reentry Vehicle-1) may yet become a money maker for
the company. Unnamed sources report that members of the Imperial Navy were
seen at Pan-Imperia headquarters earlier this week, and were taken on a tour of 
shipyards and testing grounds on the uninhabited southern continent of Oslin.


**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Feel Like Part of the Crew!"(tm)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:23:10 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

Zhodani agents report that Leonard Erickson wrote:

- -> And now that they've been liberated, they've shown that they can be
- -> just as *stupid* as any *real* "underdog" culture. I loved the bit when
- -> the idiot asked G'Kar "What have you suffered?"
Please don't spoil it for those of us, who havn't had the chance to 
see season 4 yet! Please!
 
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:53:51 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: [TML] PBEM on the TML

I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML the proper place
for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA sidelines are),
wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM and then post any
Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the bandwidth on the TML
for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list is for???????? 


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:07:14 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: The Economics of Ships

Under the current economics rules in Traveller it is very difficult to
design a small ship that will make money carrying cargo (at CR 1,000) at
ton.  This circumstance has caused some people on the list to suggest
that the rules are broken and that the price paid for cargo should be
increased.  I believe that this line of thought is wrong.  In any set of
circumstances where the price paid for an item (cargo) is fixed it is a
good bet that this price is fixed by _law_.

	The "real" reason that the price paid for shipping cargo is CR 1,000
per ton and not a variable ammount must be that the _Imperial_law_ sets
this price.  As anyone who has ever worked in a business will tell you
the government _Does_Not_Care_ if you can make a profit (as long as you
pay your taxes).  Just because the law specifies that you must charce CR
1,000 per ton per cargo shipped on your ship does _not_ mean that you
are required to ship cargo on your ship.  If you can not make a profit
shipping cargo at this proce than _you_ should not do it.  Instead you
should concentrate on passengers and trade & speculation.  Presumably
the cargos are shipped by larger ships who can make a profit at this
price (through economies of scale).

	It is entirely possible that when he wrote CT Marc Miller (or whoever
wrote the trade setion) set the price paid for cargo at CR 1,000 at ton
knowing full well that it would be hard to make a profit at this price
because they wished to encourage trade & speculation and carrying
passengers becaue they thought that passengers & trading were more FUN
to roleplay ! It is a lot easier to come up with interesting adventures
if your ship is not simply shipping generic cargos between generic
planets at CR 1,000 a ton.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:19:05 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: [TML] fire, fuel for...

>If 14 m(3) of
>titanium stores ten metric tons/displacement tons of hydrogen, great,
>but you must buy it, and push the mass around.  Have fun with the math.
>(Note, that's from a Striker book 3 fan, it's probably not an issue in T4)

Well, my thought about storing hydrogen in titanium was for X-boats taht
doesn't need to thrust around a lot. Hydrogen use per jump is based solely
on Jn and displacement still? As for price of titanium, well it's a common
metal that is a bit hard to mine as it takes a lot of energy to do it. At
TLs with fusion energy costs will be very small so titanium is cheap.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:21:18 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re:[TML] Re: Shipbuilder decries new industry association

Glenn Grant wrote:

>
>Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>
>>        YugoShips PLC is the manufacturer of a line of inexpensive modular
>>starships of 200 tons displacement. Widely derided in some quarters for
>>having little or no armor and armament, Mr. Ivankov in the past has stated
>[...]
>
>Far from deriding him, I think you gotta admire a guy who's willing to take
>on such a cartel of high-powered corporations, but who insists on walking
>around unarmed and without armor. A brave man, that Ivankov.
>
>Glenn G.


        Now now; it's not like Famille Spofulam actually _*needs*_ any
corporate death squads, you know...  free product samples usually do the
job quite nicely.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:33:14 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, Colin Hollands wrote:

> I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML the proper place
> for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA sidelines are),
> wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM and then post any
> Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the bandwidth on the TML
> for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list is for???????? 

Hi Colin,

Good point; this isn't the proper place for PBeM's to occur.  OTOH, these 
ISBA posts are *great* fodder, and of much broader appeal than a standard 
PBeM.  It's more like reading a piece of a full-fledged TAS business 
journal every day.  I'd love it if IG took this stuff and put it into 
JTAS #26.  I can see a series of articles growing out of this, maybe even 
a supplement someday.  

Just MHO, of course.  If a decision is made to take the ISBA stuff off 
the TML, I'd like to be included on whatever alternate list is set up; I 
won't be contributing, but I'd like to continue to read these posts.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:44:24 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML

Zhodani agents report that Colin Hollands wrote:

- -> I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML the proper place
- -> for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA sidelines are),
- -> wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM and then post any
- -> Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the bandwidth on the TML
- -> for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list is for???????? 
- -> 
Well, I for my part am enjoying the ISBA-Posts!

I also am under the impression (correct me if i am wrong) that the 
TML is there for all astpects of Traveller, including the 
Roleplaying! 
Technical discussions were once upon a time supposed to be running un the 
GDW-beta list, not as much on the TML. I for my part read the TML to 
get ideas for a new campaign, adventures and, in general, Gaming use! 
Although not having much use for the Tech-Stuff, i don't complain.
Read what you like to read, don't read the rest! But please don't 
tell us others to stop mailing to a certain topic just because you 
don't like it!
 

Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:54:19 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD 10 month Vote List

ATTENTION***ATTENTION

Get your votes in soon.

I only have five votes so far and the top five suggestions are:

1.  Far Trader (obviously)
2.  Free Trader
3.  Mercenary Cruiser (Happy Fun Ball)
4.  Patrol Cruiser
5.  Yacht

So, if your favorite isn't in the top 5 (or even if it is) send in your
vote, let your voice be heard.

Votes will be accepted through Saturday, February 22, 1996.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:03:08 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Reddkneck Arms

>
>Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:32:18 -0600
>From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
>Subject: [TML] Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
>
>              ATTENTION!!!!!!
>
>Reddkneck Arms and Munitions (RAAM) is proud to announce a great line of
>nukes for those missiles. 
>

Hehehe....  Would I be correct in assuming that Sinbad Sam is a direct 
descendent of one "Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski?


**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Feel Like Part of the Crew!"(tm)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:00:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: [TML] THUDD and Mail

> 7) Maximum monthly revenues: at 1,000 cr/ton of cargo, how much revenue
[...]
> a low passage), and mail (5,000 cr/ton up to 5 tons if the ship is armed).
> Calculate the total maximium revenue assuming full passenger occupancy and
> 5 tons of mail (don't forget to subtract 5 tons worth of cargo to make room
> in the hold for the mail).

Mail shouldn't be an issue in the competition.  Remember, you need to 
meet three conditions to carry mail.  First, you have to dedicate five
tons of cargo space at all times for mail, whether or not you are 
carrying any.  Second, you have to be armed.  Third, you have to have
a subsidy from the government.  So nobody can carry mail.  Or are we
allowing people to build Subsidized Traders for the competition?

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:19:40 +0000
From: "Iain Rowan" <rowan@netcomuk.co.uk>
Subject: [TML] ISBA: Press Release

Beyer-Suristen Syndic today released a press release disclaiming 
responsibility.  The statement did not specify exactly what 
responsibility was being disclaimed for, but did add that both senior 
partners in the venture were very apologetic about it, whatever it 
was.

Industry sources are puzzling about a postscript to the press release 
which enquired as to whether the senior  members of the ISBA 
were enjoying their Fotherin brandy.  Import of Fotherin Brandy to 
Sylea is banned under last years Agricultural Protection legislation, 
although rumour has it that there has been a persistent trade in 
smuggled-in Fotherin produce amongst the upper echelons of Sylean 
society.  BSS' media team have rather implausibly blamed the 
postscript on an intelligent virus which has corrupted their media 
transmissions.

In an interview on HoloBusinessNewsSeven BSS' Head of Marketing 
Ellis Aa'Ve poured scorn on the recent complaints about the 
limiting of standard cargo transport fees to Cr.1000 per ton.  Mr Aa'Ve 
opined that if you were small-minded enough to try and make a living 
jumping cargoes of beans and children's shoes across the subsector, 
you did not deserve to turn a profit. 'Speculation, risk, and the 
creative use of duplicate manifest sheets are the cornerstone of an 
successful business empire' the one-time cleric in the Holy Sylean 
Church of All Being and convicted fraudster told our reporters.

Next up on Business Tonight - would you go with Yugo?




Iain Rowan

rowan@netcomuk.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:52:22 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Reddkneck Arms

At 11:03 AM 2/12/97 -0500, "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net> wrote:
>>snip<<
>
>Hehehe....  Would I be correct in assuming that Sinbad Sam is a direct 
>descendent of one "Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski?
>
>
Paul,

"Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski???? 
Whizzzzzz!!! Sound of that one going right over my pointed head!!

But please enlighten the this most ignorant one.<G>

Not that I can remember but could been a redhead in the woddpile<G>?

Sam Thomas


- ------------------------------------------------------
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 12 Feb 97  9:43:58 MS
From: Steve Charlton/IFSNA <Steve_Charlton@Avalon.COM>
Subject: [TML] Aurelian Industries Joins ISBA

- ---------------------- Forwarded by Steve Charlton/IFSNA on 02/12/97 09:43 AM 
- ---------------------------


Steve Charlton
02/11/97 12:33 PM
To: traveller@mpgn.com@smtp
cc:  
Subject: Aurelian Industries Joins ISBA

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Aurelian Industries (Sylean Stock Exchange symbol ARI) has announced that it 
will be joining the Imperial Shipbuilders Association  (ISBA) with its own 
entrant into the current type-standardized Far Trader competition.  The 
Aurelian Industries entrant will be the YMV-6 Celestia-class Deep Space 
Trader.  The preliminary design will be unveiled at next week's Starship 
Architects Conference in Capitol.

This will be Aurelian Industries' first venture into civilian shipbuilding and 
design since the attempted YMV-5 (Connestoga class) Modular Freighter project, 
which was put on hold nearly 20 years ago.  The current head of Aurelian 
Industries, Baron Alec Wardn, has personally taken over the Civilian Craft 
division of the corporation, and promises that the YMV-6 will be "the most 
popular small-cargo hauler in the Imperium."  Baron Warn, who holds a doctorate 
in Jump Space Theory from the University of Sylea, was responsible for the 
recent successful conversion of the AF-22 Deep Space Gunboat into the 
jump-capable Revenue-class Customs Cruiser for the newly-formed 
customs-enforcement fleet of the Imperial Ministry of Trade.

Aurelian Industries was formed more than 400 years ago by Aurelius Wardn as a 
private consortium to fund the reconstruction of the Badon shipyard near 
Gerrinholm, Sylea.  The Badon district has been held by the Wardn family since 
the Rule of Man, and this claim has withstood numerous legal and other 
challenges since the end of the Rule of Man.  Aurelian Industries first 
ventured into the shipbuilding industry after the rebuilding of the Badon 
Shipyard (now called Aurelia Downport) with two designs for the Sylean Navy; 
the T-32 Training Shuttle and the AF-12 Short Duration Gunboat.  Since then, 
Aurelian Industries has supplied more than 20 different small craft classes to 
the Sylean Navy, as well as two starship classes; the SA-3 (Armistead class) 
Armed Courier and the DE-7 (Gilaadin class) Destroyer Escort.  In addition, two 
other spacecraft classes have been converted to jump-capable starships.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:27:08 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Critical Hit

At 02:19 AM 2/12/97 +0000, Kenneth wrote:

>I've been pretty quiet lately because I haven't had a lot of time to 
>share with my fellow Traveller fanatics, but tonight I was browsing 
>the IG web site and stumbled across proposed errata for the critical 
>hit rule in T4.

<snip>

>Instead of the first hit always being considered a critical hit (all 
>of the damage from the entire roll is taken randomly from one of the 
>three hit point characteristics), we have been doing something a 
>little different.  
>
>We didn't like the first hit always being considered a critical hit.  
>I understand the meaning behind the rule in that it gives an 
>advantage to whoever draws first blood, but what about later in the 
>conflict.  Isn't it reasonable that a perfect hit could be achieved 
>on a target on, say, the fifth round of combat when the target is 
>starting to feel the strain of combat fatigue?

Actually, the first hit rule makes some sense.  Studies have shown that the
first wound recieved by a soldier tends to affect his performance beyond
what could be expected for the actual damage done.  This is the shock of
realizing "I've been hit!" and dealing with the sudden on-rush of pain, etc.
If a person can stand the intial hit, the odds of him surviving the combat
go way up.  Additional wounds tend to be less noticable (unless they hit
something critical, i.e., a Spectacular Sucess or an increased damage
attack) due to the high adrenaline levels in the already wounded persons system.

>And why tempt "rules-players" to minorly injure themselves only to 
>declare later in the combat that they have already taken damage and 
>cannot be effected by the first blood critical hit rule.

It say that they "accidentaly" shot through a major vein.. That's
unbelievably abusive, and anybody who tried it my game would be looking for
something else to do on Friday nights.

>Our answer to this to allow critical hits when spectacular success is 
>rolled.  In this way, it is not automatic.  Indeed, the PCs even live 
>longer, and this rule gives a benefit to rolling spectacular success 
>in combat.

I don't think PC dying quickly is the big problem in Traveller combat,
indeed, as we proved on rec.games.frp.misc, it's damn hard to kill anybody.
Not that this is a bad thing, I've always seen traveller as a "heroic"
system.  In my game, I generally look at how mucjh the SS exceeded the task
number by, and award an increased damage bonus based on that; unless there's
something the player wants to do with his SS, like shot the gun out of the
bad guy's hand.  

>Critical hits, under our system, are not automatic the first time a 
>character gets damaged, and if several spectacular success are rolled 
>against one character (however unlikely), then several critical hits 
>can be rolled against him.

I think we are working with a different definition of what constitues a
"critical hit".  This term doesn't appear in the rules, so I'm guessing that
you're lumping the first hit rule in with increased damage attacks.  If I'm
wrong please let me know.

>You may say that this is too much of an advantage allowing characters 
>to usually survive at least one shot in combat.
>
>Well, not so, says I.  We also use expanded medical rules (also in my 
>House Rules), and in them, there is a rule for wound deterioriation.  
>If medical help is not received in the specified time (longer for 
>superfical and minor wounds--shorter time periods for serious and 
>critical wounds), then a check is made to see if the wound 
>deteriorates.  If this roll is failed, then the character starts 
>takeing additional damage until either treatment is received or the 
>character dies.

could you repost/send these to me?  I'd be interested in seeing them, and
I'm setting up a website of alternate combat rules.

>
>
>

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #943
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 12 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 944



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] THUDDD 10 month Vote List
[TML] PISS to File Suit
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: [TML] Role Playing ISBA:  Dates
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
[TML] ISBA: Boonedoggle Advanced Shipyard Systems
Re: [TML] Re: Reddkneck Arms
[TML] Press Release: Catullus Aerospace joins ISBA
Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles
[TML] ASASA to commence starship production
[TML] Re: PBEM on the list
What is this [TML] thing?
[TML] THUDD Contest
Re: What is this [TML] thing?
[TML] testing 123 beeeep
[TML] Vilani & Vargr for Sale
[TML] Re: Revised USP
[TML] Flash: Generica Head Slams Tadashi For Slander, Ignorance, and More
[TML] Re: Uncle Al
[TML] Traveller Auction: Over!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:13:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDDD 10 month Vote List

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, Paul Walker wrote:

> ATTENTION***ATTENTION
> 
> Get your votes in soon.
> 
> I only have five votes so far and the top five suggestions are:
> 
> 1.  Far Trader (obviously)
> 2.  Free Trader
> 3.  Mercenary Cruiser (Happy Fun Ball)
> 4.  Patrol Cruiser
> 5.  Yacht
> 
> So, if your favorite isn't in the top 5 (or even if it is) send in your
> vote, let your voice be heard.

1) The X-Boat:
What about the 100-ton Express Boat?  Granted, X-boats tend to stay in the
background, rather than becoming actively involved in play, but they're a
*very* important part of that background.  As the Imperium expands, and
both fusion- and jump technology advances, an overhaul of the courier
network would be almost inevitable.

2) The Patrol Cruiser:  
If nobody is interested in the X-boat, re-designing the 400-ton patrol
cruiser would also be a good idea.  This is the kind of military vessel
adventurers (as pirates, smugglers, unauthorized visitors to Interdicted
planets, and so forth) are likely to be running into, exchanging fire
with, and running from.  Yes, I know, I already voted for the 800-ton
"Happy Fun Ball," but I suspect that a re-designed patrol cruiser (which
needs a catchy nickname) would be useful to more referees.
                                                               - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:03:28 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [TML] PISS to File Suit

A GNN Corporate Report

     Pan-Imperia Claims Trademark Infringement, Salutes Fellow Builders

(Hazan, CORE) Representatives of Pan-Imperia Shipyards and Servicing's legal
department filed suit today via fast courier with the Imperial Ministries of
Justice
and Economic Benevolence against ISBA member Custom Built Wreckage
on the charges of trademark infringement. Company attorney Arthur 
Langheinrich: "In a recent statement, spokesmen for Custom Built Wreckage
repeatedly referred to the ISBA as a 'Pan-Imperial' organization. Surely, a
member of an Imperial body has the legal resources to do a simple 
registration check. ValuJump Lines duly and legally registered "Pan-Imperia",
"Pan-Imperial", and "Pan-Imp" as legal trademarks of its subsidiary Pan-
Imperia Shipyards and Servicing. Whether this event was an intentional 
infringement of PISS's trademarks or whether it occurred through the
slack efforts of a lax legel department, ValuJump has no recourse but to
file suit to guard its trademarks. We all remember the unhappy tale of StellR 
Industries failing to aggressively pursue common use of its trademarked 
name for its reactionless drive system and thus having "Thruster" go out of
trademark and into common parlance. Pan-Imperia and ValuJump are 
determined not to allow that to happen to them.

Langheinrich went on to congratulate YugoShips PLC and Generica for 
their stand against the ISBA: "It takes a lot of courage to stand up for what
is fair and right as these companies have done. Shady dealings and veiled
threats go hand in hand with blatant disregard for intellectual property in this
new organization. We applaud these two companies and feel that if the 
current discussions among the United Freight and Passenger Workers 
Union regarding a general strike should unfortunately come to pass, that
there businesses would very likely see little effect due to their enlightened
managerial attitudes toward their workers."

GNN attempted to contact Custom Built Wreckage president  Grabow Freem
for comment, but was informed that he was suffering from a stomach flu and
was indisposed.

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"All Our Cargo is Carry-On"(tm)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 18:09 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

In-Reply-To: <330184B4.1354@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>

<< I *love* the star-furies, and really enjoy the space combat scenes. 
>>

For once, the spaceships actually obey the laws of physics. They look 
and behave like spaceships, not aeroplanes.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 18:10 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Role Playing ISBA:  Dates

In-Reply-To: <97Feb10.101517est.5392@postoffice.theiia.org>

<< We need to find out what the "official" 
date is.  I could be incorect, and year zero starts with the relase of "M:0" 
( which I believe is due today, Feb 10th?) >>

CSC refers to events in years 3, 9, and 23.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 18:09 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

In-Reply-To: <199702110759.BAA07257@weck.brokersys.com>

<< The show is just incredible.  Things planted in one season are 
explained two seasons later.  Character development is just 
incredible too.  Take the Narns.  When we first saw them they were 
your typical Klingon-like bad guys.  Then the Centauri decimated 
their homeworld with mass drivers (how's that for a Traveller 
connection?) and turned it into slag...and the Narns have come from 
your two dimensional baddies to very noble and credible allies with a 
deep religion and brave hearts. >>

B5 is totally different to any other SF series. Characters evolve, and 
our perceptions of them change. Like you said, G'Kar started off 
(apparently) as the villain, and Londo as comic relief. Then we find 
that, well, the Narn are pretty much justified in their actions, because 
they were badly treated by the Centauri. We now see the villains as 
heroes and the victims as getting what they deserve. Then it goes 
further: Londo signs a pact with the devil, but starts to regret it, 
while G'Kar turns into more of a religious figure. Meanwhile, similar 
things are happening with other characters: are the angelic Vorlon 
really the good guys? maybe the Shadows are actually justified.

In general, episodes of, say, TNG can be viewed in any order. Very 
little changes. Everything is sorted out neatly at the end of 45 
minutes, and actions have no long term consequences. Not with B5. Quite 
often, the good guys *don't* win; the doctor *doesn't* save the dying 
child; a character injured or thrown in jail one week isn't back to 
normal in the next episode. 

You really have to consider B5 as a whole, not as individual episodes.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:27:05 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: [TML] ISBA: Boonedoggle Advanced Shipyard Systems

Today we here at Boonedoggle Advanced Shipyard Systems (BASS) are proud to
announce that ISBA is just what BASS needs to get into bigger markets. BASS
is premium builder of unconventional starcraft and spacecraft. 

Our "BASS Boat" line is used by many interstellar for recreational uses
through out the Imperium and the Beyond Sector. 

The "John Boat" line is used by many Imperial clients for classified
mission profiles.

In an effort to provide our customers with the finest "boats" available we
have entered into three way partnership with Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
(RAAM), and Creditmoore Random Array Sybernetic House (CRASH). CRASH is
manufacture of extremely high end computer systems. RAAM most of our
costumers are familiar with.

Together the three corporations have unlimited market access.

The Presidents of the three corporations are:

BASS:  Steve "Tackle Box" Dillon
      Company Motto "Ain't no stump that will hole our boats"
RAAM:  Billy "Bob" Buck
      Company Motto "Big Battleships deserve a good RAAMing"
CRASH: Peter "The Geek" Alexander
      Company Motto "Every computer person deserves to be CRASHed" 

All three are located in Liberty Hall/Beyond, Turn spinward of the Spinward
Marches and follow the glowing planets and wrecked spaceships.

Check out the daily specials.!!!

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:20:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Reddkneck Arms

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, sinbad@dfw.net wrote:
> At 11:03 AM 2/12/97 -0500, "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net> wrote:
> >Hehehe....  Would I be correct in assuming that Sinbad Sam is a direct 
> >descendent of one "Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski?
> >
> >
> Paul,
> 
> "Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski???? 
> Whizzzzzz!!! Sound of that one going right over my pointed head!!
> 
> But please enlighten the this most ignorant one.<G>

It's a reference to S.J.G.'s "Car Wars."  In "Car Wars," supplemental
rules for new equipment were published as entries in the mail-order
catalogs of "Uncle Al's Auto Stop and Weapons Shop" (or some such thing).

                                                             - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 22:46:29 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: [TML] Press Release: Catullus Aerospace joins ISBA

046-0000  Hazan (CORE 0703)

Catullus Aerospace (Hazan) LIC

CA would like to announce its affiliation with the new Imperial Ship Builders
Association. In an announcement this afternoon, the CEO of Catullus, Baron
Marius Peralta said "This fine organisation opens up many opportunities for
our company to liase with the other leading Starship manufacturers of the
Imperium. For the past ten years we have built up a strong following in the
local market in Hazan. Our membership of the ISBA marks the launch of our
highly regarded ships to the whole Imperial marketplace. Our involvement in
the THUDD competitive process provides us with the opportunity to showcase
some of the fine work of our dedicated team."

Catullus is a specialist company which designs and manufactures unique
starships.  At Catullus, we appreciate that no two clients have the
same transport requirements.

Industry, transport, exploration, military or leisure... modern demands call
for quality designs to suit very specialised needs. From a fleet to a single
vessel, we produce customised, innovative interstellar and interplanetary
transport to match individual specifications.

Catullus' team of professional starship architects, designers and engineers
will consult directly with clients to produce design specifications. The
Catullus professional design team applies the very latest technology. We work
to approved standards for all applications, including scientific research and
military.

As has always been the case our published designs are only a single solution
to a single client's needs. We are always keen to optomise one of these 
designs to suit your particular requirements. Flexibility is our key to
design excellence.


James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:42:52 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Universal Ship Profiles

In a message dated 97-02-12 11:03:56 EST, you write:

> << I'd like to propose a new format for the USP, if I may.  This is an
>  expansion and extension of the current USP, to get a lot of the missing
>  details back into the ship description. >>
>  
I agree it should be revised.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 20:06:25 GMT
From: Shane Thomas <s.n.thomas@aelfgyva.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [TML] ASASA to commence starship production

PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ASASA to commence starship production.

Aelfgyva Small Arms SA, the award winning munitions and general engineering
corporation, are proud to announce the formation of their starship
construction division following the successful acquisition of Far Horizons
Shipbuilding Ltd and Cygnus Jump Systems Pty.

The combined operation, trading under the ASASA banner, offers a complete
starship and small craft solution to all your requirements from design to
first flight.  All components and systems from the smallest to the largest
are sourced from within ASASA, ensuring that the high quality and attention
to detail for which ASASA, Far Horizons and Cygnus are renowned will be
maintained and enhanced.

ASASA's owner and Chairman, Sir Kohn Tarkosz, stated "Whilst plans have been
in place for a shipbuilding division for some time now, it was necessary to
wait until we could find partners with the same commitment to total quality
that has always characterised Aelfgyva Small Arms.  Happily, Cygnus and Far
Horizons are two such companies, and I am sure that together we will be a
major producer of vessels for customers both within and without the
Imperium."

As part of ASASA's commitment to quality and customer care an application
has been submitted for full membership in the recently formed Imperial Ship
Builders Association.  In view of ASASA's position as one of the Imperium's
premier corporations the granting of membership is expected to be a
formality and should be announced within the next day. 

Sir Kohn also stated that "Given the stated goals of the ISBA and the sheer
quality of the prestigious corporations that have announced their membership
in the past few days, I believe that soon being part of this organisation
will be a prerequisite for any shipbuilding company that wishes to be taken
seriously in the modern interstellar marketplace."

ASASA wishes to assure current customers of Far Horizons and Cygnus that all
extant contracts and quotations will be honoured for a minimum of one year.

END OF ANNOUNCEMENT
- --
Shane Thomas <s.n.thomas@aelfgyva.demon.co.uk>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:56:07 -0500 (EST)
From: pierre-louis constantin <Pierre-Louis.Constantin@DMI.USherb.CA>
Subject: [TML] Re: PBEM on the list

Hi!
 
	While the role-playing on the list is a good idea, I don't
think those who participate in it have any idea of how many people
are on the Traveller list - and consequently, how many people might
not care for their own little PBEM...  I found the whole thing
somewhat interesting (But I have to say that I'm in no way associated
with YugoShips PLC!!!) I'd be much happier if the whole thing was
moved to another list and the discussion archived on someone's web
site.
 
	While more interesting that the totally off-topic 'internet
hike' (who is even less interesting to non-US folks), it does tend to
eat bandwith and hide other stuff...
 
	That's my (old-timer's) opinion. :)


- -- 
Pierre-Louis Constantin, ift. a. 	"He whose name was writ in E-mail."
(: "I hate fanatics with a passion; all extremists should be shot." :)
	    How's my surfing? http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~constanp/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:09:58 -0800
From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
Subject: What is this [TML] thing?

I realize I may have been out of things for a bit but what is this [TML]
header to each E-MAIL.  I mean no offense but Logic would dictate that
if someone is sending mail to the mailing list it is [TML] in catagory.

Anyone that can explain this new ritual to a poor native will be greatly
praised and worshiped by the local natives.

Brad Urwiller
ravyn@ptw.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:27:26 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: [TML] THUDD Contest

Hi-

Color me stupid, but I've managed to loose the address where we are 
supposed to send in our ship designs.  Could some kind soul please email 
me this address?

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:36:05 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: What is this [TML] thing?

At 01:09 PM 2/12/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I realize I may have been out of things for a bit but what is this [TML]
>header to each E-MAIL.  I mean no offense but Logic would dictate that
>if someone is sending mail to the mailing list it is [TML] in catagory.

it's being added at the request of some of us who are:

a> on several mailing lists, and

b> finding it difficult to track what's from the TML by subject line.

Indeed, the posts I've been getting of of the TML almost had me running them
through Spam Hater 1.0, the looked like real commercial headers!

It's an experiment at the moment, I guess Rob is taking votes on the subject.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:44:40 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: [TML] testing 123 beeeep

Just seeing if I can get to the list yet, or those dastardly ISBA
monopolists have managed to keep my mail blocked ;-)


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:58:38 -0800
From: Joel Pratt <jpratt@ucla.edu>
Subject: [TML] Vilani & Vargr for Sale

I'm putting a copy of  VILANI & VARGR, (nickname: "Cogs and Dogs") in
excellent shape,  up for auction. This was one of DGP's finest supplements,
and belongs on the shelf of any serious traveller player. Best offer snags
it. I'll start the bidding at $20 (including shipping). Send your bids to:
jpratt@ucla.edu.


- --Joel Pratt
jpratt@ucla.edu
http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~jpratt

"There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn." - Camus, The Myth of
Sisyphus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 17:08:14 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Revised USP

"odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net> wrote:
> Regarding HEPlaR-equipped starships
> For example:
> 	## Maneuver (HEPlaR, ## Mw, ## hours @ max G, ## G-turns available)

That's a lot to put into that little space, don't you think (whatever goes
there has to fit on less than half a line)?
How about:
	## Maneuver (HEPlaR, ## Mw, ## G-hours)

> I use 30 minute turns, so a 2G HEPlaR drive with 10 hours of fuel ...

Since different combat systems use different turn lengths, it's probably
best to put the number of hours into the USP.  Figuring G-turns wouldn't be
much trouble.  By putting the number of G-hours in the listing, it's easy to
figure out the number of G-turns and hours at maximum G.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:23:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] Flash: Generica Head Slams Tadashi For Slander, Ignorance, and More

Flash: WappoNewsDing <Coder: Generica Shipyards, Arcadia Shipyards,
                      Shugli, Tadashi, Slander, Sausagehead>


  In prepared remarks today, Generica Shipyards owner Joe Shugli called
the President of Arcadia Shipyards, Kodai Tadashi, a "overeducated
sausagehead with a weak grasp on reality."  When asked to clarify his
statement, Shugli told reporters to "Get a brain, already, you sycophantic
toadies of the information jump-lanes."  Generica spokes-sophont, Martin
97601, later explained that what Mr. Shugli meant to say was that Mr.
Tadashi had made a number of errors in his recent interview, and that Mr.
Shugli mearly wanted to inform Mr. Tadashi that he was incorrect.  Mr.
97601 then supplied the following response to Tadashi's press release.
  

> Several members of the press were quick to ask Mr. Tadashi for his reaction
> to the statements by Generica Shipyards and YugoShips PLC. accusing the ISBA
> of being a union-breaking or monopolistic cartel.  He accused Generica and
> YugoShips of "creating trouble" in the industry where none existed before.

  "If that sausagehead had spent five seconds doing a bit of research,
he'd have realized that I've never call the ISBA anything but a bunch of
overeducated equation pushers who wouldn't know a profitable starship if
they crammed it up their...hey, is this thing on?  Anyway, where was I? 
Oh yeah, the sausagehead.  I just hope he realises that I asked the union
boys to organize my shops a few years back - my workers kicked them out as
soon as they found out they'd have to take a pay cut, plus pay dues.  I
pay the highest wages in the industry, bar none.  Nothing but
professionals working here, and they can join that narf-polishing union
any day of the week, as far as I'm concerned.  As for monopoly, hah - I've
undersold the best, and I'll undersell that sausagehead and all his
buddies till the morkvarts come home." 
  "As for causing trouble, well, that sausagehead doesn't know the meaning
of the word yet - probably can't spell it either."
 
> "Arcadia Shipyards has always been able to offer superior design and
> workmanship on our products while holding the line on prices due to our
> strong vertical integration througout the entire starship design and
> construction process", he said.
> "I believe that we can offer starships that are superior in design,
> materials, and workmanship at prices that equal or better our competition."

  "Sure they cost 'about the same' - if you're grasp of the word 'about'
is poor.  What old sausagehead won't tell you is the maintenance cost on
one of his jobs.  Plus, just try getting parts for one of those custom
subsystems of his on some border world."

> Mr. Tadashi included YugoShips PLC and Generica in that declaration, saying
> "Both companies are well-known for producing second-rate vessels at low
> prices.  If you look at Arcadia's offerings, you will see that a
> high-quality starship can be had for practically the same price."

  "Second-rate, my grandma's patooty!  You ask any flyboy what he'd rather
take off the pad - my proven designs with assemblies built to SIN
standards, or some wacky custom Acadia job with the inspection papers
still wet from the test pilot's bodily fluids.  They'll take a Generica
every time, you can count on it!  Our ships are inexpensive, and built to
stay that way."



********Roleplay Mode Off***********

  Ah, what fun to get into the head of a crusty guy and mouth off - this
ISBA thing is turning out to be a great invention.  I'm really getting a
chance to learn the QSDS system by looking at other people's designs and
trying to figure them out, plus all the recent posts are filled with
little in-jokes about Traveller history and culture.

  It'll be intersting to see if this develops into a fun PBEM - hope it
does.  Once M0 comes out I'll have to figure out a location for Generica
and do some desgin work on facilities and personalities.

  By the way, I think the idea of everything coming from one company's
catalog as an explanation for QSDS and SSDS is a bit restrictive.  I
prefer the idea that there are certain pre-approved designs (my concept
of Sylea Industry Norm - sort of like DIN or other industry agreements)
that are cheaper because they are pre-certified.  For example, in the
United States there is one kind of wall socket for 120 Volt AC power.
There is no government regulation of that socket, and lots of companies
make them - it's just that everybody agreed years ago on one design,
and that's now the de-facto standard.


______________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:49:53 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [TML] Re: Uncle Al

>
>"Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski???? 
>Whizzzzzz!!! Sound of that one going right over my pointed head!!
>
>But please enlighten the this most ignorant one.<G>
>
>Not that I can remember but could been a redhead in the woddpile<G>?
>
>Sam Thomas
>

<g> Let's set the Way'Back Machine to the early to mid '80s and a game 
called Car Wars....  In *its* version of the JTAS, the Autoduel Quartery,
Uncle Al ran "Uncle Al's Auto Stop and Gunnery Shop"...  if the proprietor
of Reddkneck Arms and Munitions isn't a relative, he's at least someone
that Al would be proud to sit down and have a few brews with <g> !

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"All Our Cargo is Carry-On" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:55:55 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: [TML] Traveller Auction: Over!

 Ok, bidding is closed. Thanks to all who participated. I will be getting in
touch with everyone who won the bid on something today or tomorrow with
their total and other information.

 ** Postage is $2.00 for first item, and .50 cents for each additional item.
 ** Payment should be in either check or money order.
 ** Prompt payment is appreciated. **
    -----------------------------

Here are where things stood at the end of the auction...

CLASSIC TRAVELLER:
- ------------------

"Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller" (GDW)
 Circa: 1981. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

"Book 4 - Mercenary" (GDW)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 52. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $2.00 pmiller@irevolution.com

"Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium" (GDW)
 Circa: 1979. Pages: 43. Condition: Excellent. (Digest)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca

"Tarsus - World Beyond the Frontier" (GDW)
 Circa: 1983. Condition: Excellent. (Boxed Module)
 Bid: $15.00 sdollar@goodnet.com

"Traveller Cardboard Heros - Set #1: Soldiers of Fortune" (SJG)
 Circa: 1982. Scale: 15mm. Condition: Mint. (Uncut)
 Bid: $4.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Pilots Guide To The Caledon Subsector" by J. Andrew Keith 
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 74. Condition: Mint. (Bound Manuscript)
 Bid: $15.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Imperial Lines #2" (GDW)
 Circa: 1992. Pages: 8. Condition: Mint. (Fanzine)
 Bid: $10.00 pnewman@alaska.net

"Challenge Magazine #26" (GDW)
 Circa:1986. Pages:48. Condition:Good.(Article:"Cargo-Merchant Prince Variant")
 Bid: $5.00 scarabl@pacbell.net 

"Challenge Magazine #27" (GDW)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. ( **Droyne/Grandfather Issue** )
 Bid: $5 mark@dk-online.dk

"Challenge Magazine #28" (GDW)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 48. Condition: Good. (Article: Across the Imperium)
 Bid: $5.00 mark@dk-online.dk

"Challenge Magazine #29" (GDW)
 Circa:1987. Pages:48. Condition:Good. (**Traveller Tenth Anniversary Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca


MEGATRAVELLER:
- --------------

"Challenge Magazine #56" (GDW)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 80. Condition. (**Hard Times Issue**)
 Bid: $5.00 sdollar@goodnet.com

"101 Vehicles" (DGP)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 49. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $10.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Travellers' Digest #19" (DGP)
 Circa: 1990. Pages: 56. Condition: Good.
 Bid: $18.00 pete@cummings.uchicago.edu

"Laboratory Ship - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1989. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $7.00 scareb1@pacbell.net

"Subsidized Merchant - Deckplans" (Seeker)
 Circa: 1990. Scale: 25mm. Condition: Mint. (Shrink Wrapped)
 Bid: $10.00 scarabl@pacbell.net


TRAVELLER - TNE:
- ----------------

"Traveller Chronicle Magazine #10" (Knight)
 Circa:1996. Pages:56. Condition:Excellent. (**Children of Earth - part #1**)
 Bid: $4.00 rfields@actrix.gen.nz

"Clipper Module Weapons Bay" #5819 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 FKiesche@concentric.net

"Ship's Boat" #5811 (RAFM)
 Circa: 199?. Scale: ?. Condition: Mint. (Blister Pack)
 Bid: $5.00 Fkiesche@concentric.net


MISC.:
- ------

"Not in Our Stars" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1984. Pages: 222. Condition: Excellent. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $5.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"The Praesidium Of Archive" by Jefferson Swycaffer (Avon)
 Circa: 1986. Pages: 196. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel)
 Bid: $8.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Tales of the Concordat: Voyage of the Planetslayer" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 302. Condition: Fine. (Travller Inspired Novel - 2 of 3)
 Bid: $9.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"Tales of the Concordat: Revolt and Rebirth" by Jefferson Swycaffer (NI)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 329. Condition: Fine. (Traveller Inspired Novel - 3 of 3)
 Bid: $9.00 Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk

"Voyages SF Magazine #15" (King)
 Circa: 1991. Pages: 34. Condition: Fine. (Article: "Recruiting for Paradise")
 Bid: $4.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"SpaceGamer Magazine #15" (Metagaming)
 Circa: 1978. Pages: 31. Condition: Good. (Article: "Robotics In Traveller")
 Bid: $6.00 scarabl@pacbell.net

"Gord the Rogue - Sea of Death" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1987. Pages: 394. Condition: Fine. (Novel)
 Bid: $2.00 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

"Gord the Rogue - Come Endless Darkness" by Gary Gygax (New Infinities)
 Circa: 1988. Pages: 379. Condition: Good. (Novel)
 Bid: $2.00 dbertil@dtek.chalmers.se
- -----
Jerry Paul  
kalin@swlink.net

"In fact, preaching the gospel gives me nothing to boast of, for I am under
compulsion and I should be in trouble if I failed to do it."
                                                               --St. Paul

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #944
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 13 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 945



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update
[TML] ISBA
[TML] Where's the TML Digests?
[TML] CDB-1 Question - SSDS vs. QSDS
Re: [TML] J-fuel
[TML] ISBA
[TML] {TML} Newsflash for ISBA
[TML] New Owner New Goals
[TML] Imperium Games Web Newsletter
Re: [TML] ISBA: Press Release
Re: [TML] THUDD Contest
Re: [TML] MMT4 Tasks
[TML] THUDD, ISBA
Re: What is this [TML] thing?
[TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Drive
[TML] SSDS question
Re: [TML] Re: Uncle Al
Re: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Drive
Re:[TML] THUDD Contest
[TML] FSY CDB-2
[TML] Re: PBEM on the TML
[TML] Jump Drive Fuel Use

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:03:25 -0600
From: Ernest N Rowland <erowland@ionet.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update

> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:44:50 -0500
> From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
> Subject: [TML] Recalculated CDB-1/THUDDD update

I think there are a couple of mistakes in the (revised) financial analysis
of the CDB-1:

 1 Underestimation of operating expenses.  The monthly life-support was
   updated from 20,600 to 41,200; but the total monthly costs were not
   updated and should be 353 KCr (instead of 332.4KCr).

      Monthly Payment:       290.0 KCr
      Monthly Salaries:       16.0 KCr
      Monthly Life Support:   41.2 KCr
      Monthly Maintenance:     5.8 KCr
      TOTAL                  353.0 KCr/month

   Plus, if the ship cannot scoop fuel:
      80std fuel/month         8.0 KCr/month (unrefined)
      80std fuel/month        40.0 KCr/month (refined)

 2 Overestimation of monthly income.  The cargo numbers were changed from
   304KCr (76 tons @ 4KCr) to 142KCr (71 tons @ 2KCr!?) and then multiplied
   by two to yield 466KCr.  I think the mistake here is that the cargo was
   multiplied twice, and should be 71KCr (71 tons @ 1KCr), yielding a
   corrected value of: 324 KCr.

      Biweekly Cargo:            71.0 KCr
      Biweekly Mail:             25.0 KCr (but see note below)
      Biweekly High Passengers:  60.0 KCr
      Biweekly Low Passengers:    6.0 KCr
      TOTAL                     162.0 KCr/2weeks -> 324 KCr/month

This gives a NET LOSS of 29 KCr per month (and even worse without the mail)!
So this ship is NOT PROFITABLE without speculation or more trips per month.

A NOTE ON MAIL:

According to T4 (pg97), mail delivery contracts may be available to
_subsidised_ merchants (600std hulls or larger) - so I would argue that the
Imperium would not entrust mail delivery to a 200std ship, except under
special circumstances, so this should not be part of the financials.

So the five requirements for a mail contract are (all from T4 pg 97):
   1  hull must be 600std or larger (to qualify for #2)
   2  government-subsidized merchant
   3  dedicated mail area (exactly 5std)
   4  ship is armed;
   5  gunner in crew;

8-)
Ernest N Rowland
erowland@ionet.net
"The flag is solid red, except where a thin ring-shaped hole has been cut
out of it, through which one can see the sky."-GEB:EGB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:16:20 -0000
From: "Mark Archer" <M.Archer@btinternet.com>
Subject: [TML] ISBA

PRESS RELEASE

Today owner of Soux-Long, KlickKlickeeekkkkFlp announced his company will
not be joining the ISBA.  In a statement KlickKlickeeekkkkFlp said

"It is always useful to swim with a school, but sometimes the school gets
to big, then the brave ones must swim alone.  As for the disgraceful price
rises I can categorically state that Soux-Long will refuse to stick to this
ridiculous prices. We will stay at the original Jump drive prices for the
forseable future.  We also have remarkable deals on HEPlaR drives for when
you want your Far Trader to go far!"

When asked on how Soux-Long will survive outside the ISBA he said

"It's not easy being a Dolphin!"

*** REAL LIFE (aarrrgghhh) ***
Do you really have to do all the economic stuff for are designs all this
maths makes my head spin.

	-Mark


***********************************************************
Mark Archer,  at M.Archer@btinternet.com

"I can't stand burnt toasts.  I loath bus stations.  Terrible places,
 full of lost luggage and lost souls.."
          - The Doctor, Ghoast Light

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 22:51:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: [TML] Where's the TML Digests?

Hey!
    Where are the TML Digests!?  It's been almost two days now since I saw the
last one in my mail box.  Is the list/server having problems again???

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:01:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: [TML] CDB-1 Question - SSDS vs. QSDS

  Well, I had some spare time today, so I decided to haul out my copy of
QSDS v. 1.5 and build the Famille Spofulam CDB-1 (originally designed in
SSDS) in QSDS terms.  I got fairly close in most areas, and even wound up
with a slightly cheaper ship (62.97 MCr vs. 69.6 for the CDC-1) that
carried 2.6 tons more cargo that had the same number of staterooms and
other equipment. 

  The one main difference I found using QSDS is that I needed a lot more
power.  The hull (200T Disk (S)) requires 54.6Mw, and the thrusters
(factor 4) 56.0Mw, for a total of 110.6Mw for those components alone under
QSDS.  When I added sensors, controls, and a comparable laser, the power
needs went up to about 156Mw, essentially twice the 75Mw power supply that
is shown for the CDB-1.  

  I'm curious why this might be - are there some power tricks you can do
with SSDS that you can't do with QSDS, or are QSDS components of a lower
tech level and so use more power (the CDB-1 is a TL-12 design)?

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:38:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] J-fuel

Hi.

> From: TBSVT@aol.com

> So what if you kept the Lhyd under pressure?it lowers the space and still
> lets you keep the same amount. This may not be a good idea for war ships but
> all of those Free,Far,Fat traders out there can make a lot more in the
> process of a days opps weeks work. I dont pretend to know alot about this
> type of thing but I'm sure some on here does. If this is a workable idea what
> whoud the compression rates be?

I don't pretend to know a lot about this kind of thing either, but I
know that you can compress hydrogen into a solid metallic crystal, with
relatively high density (~1 g/cm^3). Doing so requires quite a bit of
energy, but once metalized, it does not require power to keep it
crystaline. It does require A LOT of pressure though, and it needs to be
kept very cold. This stuff has already been made with today's
technology; it will become much easier to make if a practical
application for it can be found.

The details for metallic hydrogen were worked out by a solid state
physicist at LSU for Harold Williams's Traveller campaign back in 1987.
(Are you still on the list, Harold?) Sorry I can't be quantitative, but
here is a qualitative description based on my memory.

Fuel volume is reduced to a negligible amount; starships can jump all
they want provided they buy enough of this stuff. The mass increase of
the hydrogen due to the repulsive energy between the atoms in the
crystal lattice is a notable percentage of the fuel mass (~1%?). This
means that loss of cryonics or pressure around several tons of fuel
results in mass-energy conversions of nuclear proportions. Translation:
a fuel leak = a LARGE nuclear explosion. The crystal structure is fairly
stable at low temperatures and high pressures though, so fuel leaks
should be rare. Ships carrying metallic hydrogen were not allowed into
starports in Harold's campaign.

So how did this stuff affect my campaign? Not at all. I ruled that the
volume formulae for jump-drive performance were first order
approximations for mass formulae. So you get no advantage for reducing
hydrogen volume (whether it be by metalizing it or by storing it in
ammonia) in my campaign. Volume formulae never made sense to me
as anything but mass-formula approximations. YMMV.

I'll try to dig up some references. In the mean time, I hope this helps.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:47:41 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: [TML] ISBA

Flash Sylea Business News

To day ISBA stopped taking membership applications. 

Josphanoer Cailfor the project coordinator for the ISBA stated, 
"Due to the high rate of response and some technical problems 
experienced with vast distance communications that the taking of 
membership applications have been temporally halted"

"This is just a temporary stoppage we believe that service to the 
industry comes first and that the problems mentioned above can cause 
bad service and delays, so until some problems no more memberships 
can be accepted."

"Yes we realize this can be inconvince to other ship yards who have 
yet to have a chance to respond to the announcement, and we do 
apologize."

******Role Play off*****

First I want to say I am thrilled with the high response from all of 
you thank you.


Look I have been recording an average of 5 new  members a day and have 
only had a chance to send one letter out to the original nine.  Of 
those only 3 have sent something back.  So until I get myself  organized 
I have to slow things down.  

Now as far as the TML and role playing I taken two steps to less the 
traffic.  First is I suggest that any PBEM come through my address.  
Though if an individual as a universal statement then I am not going 
to stop them.  Second once things are done I will have a 
PR/Publications division to handle all ISBA general announcements 
and to handle the important TML postings.  I can understand the 
wishes of those who don't want 30,000 ISBA postings on their TML, that's 
why I will offer a subscription of some sort to those who want to 
here more.

As you can see I have big plans so if  you will just give me some 
time to work out some email problems I ll. get things rolling


To paraphrase Lucas  in reference to opening weekend of SW
"I didn't expected this at all"

Tim@premier.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:16:57 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] {TML} Newsflash for ISBA

FLASH FLASH FLASH

Mused shipyards bought out by Rhodes Consortium

Rhodes Consortium, a company owned by Multimillionaire entrepenuer Jack Hannibal 
Rhodes, has purchased the quality shipyards, and intends to produce the same cost-efficient 
ships.
He also announced there would be no downsizing, as Mused Yards had no excess workers 
anyway

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] New Owner New Goals

The newly aquired (by Mr. Rhodes) shipyards formerly known as Mused now officially 
requests membership in the ISBA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:09:00 -0800
From: Imperium Games <imperiumgames@imperiumgames.com>
Subject: [TML] Imperium Games Web Newsletter

INTERNET PRE-ORDER PLAN:

IG has heard the complaints about the Internet Mail Order program, and we
would like to propose some changes that will help both you the consumer and
us, the company.

At the beginning, the previous IG management was in charge of the internet
mail order service and unfortunately they botched it up and for both you
and us.  We took charge, and we ended up fixing the problems that existed.
However, now many of you are still making comments that there are still
problems with the internet, shipping costs are too high, and overall the
cost of books are too high.  Well, after a lot of consideration and much
number crunching we think that we have come up with a solution that will
make you happy and will bring the internet business back to life.

You see, in a perfect world, you should be able to get a product over the
internet from IG for a discounted rate (including shipping and handling),
the product should arrive in tip top shape, and you should be able to
receive the product before it ever hits the stores.  Well, if your willing
to give us (the new management a shot) then we will show you that it can in
fact be done this way.

We would like to propose a 1997 early auto buy program.  By this we mean a
program where you sign up to receive the next six releases from IG in
advance so we know that when a product is ready to ship, we automatically
ship it to you.  This is our advantage for doing this because we will know
in advance to some extent what our print runs should be.  On your side, you
will receive the products within three days of our receiving the product in
our warehouse if your located in the US.  The product will be shipped in a
durable protective cardboard box, that's right no more envelopes, no more
handwritten labels.  You will only be charged for your product once it has
shipped, so even though we have your pre-order on record, you will only be
charged as a product becomes available, again this is just helping us
project print runs, and we will insure that this is the way its handled.
Finally, you will receive a regular $22.95 product for $20.00 which is a
savings of $2.95 per product.

NOW FOR THE BEST THING, WE WILL NOT CHARGE ANY SHIPPING AND HANDLING FOR
THESE PRODUCTS FOR US OR CANADIAN CUSTOMERS.  FOR FOREIGN CUSTOMERS WE WILL
LOWER THE SHIPPING & HANDLING COST TO $5/product and if you make a bulk
order (i.e. several products at once) we will be able to do a better deal
on the S/H.  So, $20 is all you end up paying.  On a lower priced product,
like an adventure, you will receive a similar discount.  

With this new program, you will receive the new Traveller products before
anyone else, you will receive it in great condition, you will receive it
for less than you would pay in the store, you will only be charged once the
product is sent, and you will not have to pay any additional shipping and
handling - A pretty good deal which is fair to all parties concerned.  

We would appreciate it if you would give us your comments and let us know
if this type of arrangement will be of interest to you.  This would make
our lives easier, it would help us bring more good Traveller products to
you because we could better control our print runs and expenses thereby
being able to provide a higher quality product because funds can be better
appropriated.  So, please let us know your thoughts on this matter.  On a
final note, please keep in mind that this type of program will only work if
we get a lot of participation from you the consumer.  It will not make a
difference to have only a couple of people be interested as this will not
have very much affect on our making print quantity decisions.  We really
need participation from the consumer which is why we have created a win/win
situation for both of us. 

Thanking you in advance,

Courtney Solomon
President Imperium Games, Inc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:54:44 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] ISBA: Press Release

Could you post the final memebers of the ISBA?

I would like to know if Mused/Rhodes got in in time

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:58:59 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] THUDD Contest

John R. Snead wrote:
> 
> Hi-
> 
> Color me stupid, but I've managed to loose the address 

AAAIIIIEEEE!!!! THE ADDRESS HAS BEEN LOOSED! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

(sorry, I am currently buzzed on cold medication, nad this struck me as really funny, but 
then again, right now, the X-Boat is mildly funny...)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:33:44 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] MMT4 Tasks

David Reed wrote:
> I like the new additions of the "pools" for combat, though a better name
> could have been found for them.  I do question the validity of adding a
> point to your END pool for EVERY combat task, though.  I don't find firing
> a handgun, or even my shotguns, that tiring (and I seriously doubt that my
> own END is much above a 5 or 6).  I need to think about it further, but
> I'll probably only add points to the END pool for melee attacks, running,
> etc.

I believe the END cost for all tasks represent s adrenaline. Sure firing a rifle is not very 
tiring, but having someone shoot back at you would sure as hell be!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:22:19 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: [TML] THUDD, ISBA

Ok

A Clearification is need.  I started ISBA because I was inspired by 
the fun comments made in ship discriptions and THUDD.  Right now 
THUDD and ISBA are seprate.  But members of THUDD are members of ISBA
As matter of fact the first nine ISBA were the first nine THUDD 
members thats why I asked them first.  If THUDD wants to join ISBA as 
a special project then thats ok buy me.

I am just over filled with applications and cant even design a ship 
my self for THUDD so I just need to clear this up THUDD is somebody 
elses monster I have my own :  )

tim@premier.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:34:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: What is this [TML] thing?

> I realize I may have been out of things for a bit but what is this [TML]
> header to each E-MAIL.  I mean no offense but Logic would dictate that
> if someone is sending mail to the mailing list it is [TML] in catagory.
> 
> Anyone that can explain this new ritual to a poor native will be greatly
> praised and worshiped by the local natives.

Several people on the TML subscribe to other lists.  Many of these lists
include a subject tag so that people can easily tell what a mail message
is about, or what list it is from.  They do this freqently for filter
programs.  If you see a message that starts its subject with [TML] then
you know it is mailing list and you can process it accordingly.

Last week, I said that I would put the tag in over the weekend, then
conduct a poll of the list (send a message to me with the subject of either

VOTE: YES   or   VOTE: NO

Then on Thursday at 12pm EST, I will tally the vote and either leave it,
or remove it.  A YES vote means you want the [TML] tag, a NO vote means
can it.  

Rob

- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com
for webmaster@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:08:21 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Drive

>>    But efficiency would have an impact, if FoEx say half of it is being used
>>to cool the reactor as a heat sink perhaps?

>Well, since there isn't a huge amount of energy seen, the excess
>presumable ends up in jump space (on way or another).

In my campaign J-space is a non-spatial dimension, so any volume for the
ship has to created first. Most of the jump fuel goes into 'inflating' an
N-space envelope for the ship to occupy. This also explains why jump drives
are rated by volume instead of mass.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:45:20 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: [TML] SSDS question

I was just going through SSDS and making my THUDDD design. I then compared 
my final design to Roderick's sample Famille Spofulam design, when I came 
across a descrepancy.

That design had a crew of four - a pilot, a navigator, an engineer, and a 
gunner/ steward. However, in the SSDS design sequence, Step 12, page 74 of 
Starships, it states that regardless of the reults, "ships up to 200 Td can 
be run by two persons" (although I would guess a steward/gunner would be 
extra).

Since this is my first use of SSDS ever, I immediately suspect that I'm 
doing somewthing wrong, not Roderick, or that someone changed SSDS behind 
my back.

Any clarification?


By the way, what are the criteria used for judging these designs, if there 
will be any at all. This ship, the T'o'k Free Trade by 'Tihkeer'reexkaap 
Industries, was designed by trying to imagine how the K'kree would design a 
human free trader. As a result, there are some rather "questionable" design 
choices made.


K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:58:24 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Uncle Al

At 04:49 PM 2/12/97 -0500, "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski???? 
>>Whizzzzzz!!! Sound of that one going right over my pointed head!!
>>
>>But please enlighten the this most ignorant one.<G>
>>
>>Not that I can remember but could been a redhead in the woddpile<G>?
>>
>>Sam Thomas
>>
>
><g> Let's set the Way'Back Machine to the early to mid '80s and a game 
>called Car Wars....  In *its* version of the JTAS, the Autoduel Quartery,
>Uncle Al ran "Uncle Al's Auto Stop and Gunnery Shop"...  if the proprietor
>of Reddkneck Arms and Munitions isn't a relative, he's at least someone
>that Al would be proud to sit down and have a few brews with <g> !
>
Paul,

Sinbad Sam would be honored to swap a few with Uncle Al <g>


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:55:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] RE:Different takes on Jump Drive

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, Richard Hough wrote:
> In my campaign J-space is a non-spatial dimension, so any volume for the
> ship has to created first. Most of the jump fuel goes into 'inflating' an
> N-space envelope for the ship to occupy. This also explains why jump drives
> are rated by volume instead of mass.

This process sounds dimly akin to the conclusion of James Blish's "The
Triumph of Time" (itself the concluding volume of the "Cities in Flight" 
series), in which the protagonist, and several other characters, attempt a
similiar stunt (albeit in a suicidal manner), using the contents of their
vacc suit air tanks.
                                                               - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:28:28 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re:[TML] THUDD Contest

John Snead wrote:

>
>Hi-
>
>Color me stupid, but I've managed to loose the address where we are
>supposed to send in our ship designs.  Could some kind soul please email
>me this address?
>
>Many Thanks-
>
>
>- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

        Send'em to me, with a cc to Paul Walker at <tiger@goldinc.com>!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:28:32 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [TML] FSY CDB-2

        Well, it looks like it is possible to do a 200td J-2 vessel that
has a decent chance of making money!  I used a crystaliron hull, TL9
controls, didn't put any armament in, and left out scooping/refining
capability and the low berths, and put small staterooms in rather than
large ones.  As somebody pointed out, two middle passenger will make you
more than one high passenger.

        OTOH, this is a really boring ship, with very little in the way of
capabilites.  And, although it is unarmed and lacks wilderness refining
capability as does the Far Trader in the T4 manual, it's still 22 Mcr more
even done by cutting just about every corner.

Famille Spofulam CDB-2 Far Trader

Tons: 200 Std (Disk S/L)  Volume: 2800 m^3                   Cost: 53.82 MCr
Crew: 3                   Mid Pass: 12                       Low: 0
Cargo: 105 Std            Controls: TL9 Compulink            TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (280 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 2,000 T/Thr)
00x 1 empty light turret socket (0)   0.75 Power Plant (1x 75Mw)
                                      32.86 Fuel (no scoop/no refine)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      00 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 01 Pilot/Navigator, 01 Gunner/Steward, 01 Engineer.


Down payment: 10.76 Mcr
Monthly payment: 224,167 Cr
Monthly crew salaries: 18,250 Cr (Pilot/Navigator at 6,000 + (5,000 * .85),
engineer at 4,000, Steward at 4,000)
Monthly crew life support costs: 6,000 Cr
Annual maintenance costs: 53,800 Cr per annum, 4,483 Cr per month
Monthly fuel costs: (16,428.57 for jump fuel X 2 +223.21/month for power
plant fuel= 33,080
Total monthly costs: 285,980 Cr
Maximum monthly revenues: 1 trip at full capacity gives 105,000 cr for
cargo, + 72,000 for full load of mid passengers after life support for
their staterooms is deducted for 177,000 per trip, X 2= 354,000 Cr.  This
gives us ~ 24% margins.  Not good, but better than my first effort; at
least you can make money on it without speculative trading.
Breakeven point: 2 trips per month, with cargo hold full (of cargo), and
55% mid passenger occupancy, or 100% mid passenger occupancy and 68% cargo
capacity.


News Item, SYlean Shipping News, Year 0 Day 45:

"Famille Spofulam releases second Far Trader design

        Today, FSY released their second attempt at a mass-market trader,
after their first effort, the CDB-1, proved to be something of a flop;
while certainly a capable vessel, it nonetheless was impossible to operate
at anywhere near breakeven when carrying freight at standard Imperial
rates.

        It's successor, the CDB-2, bears some resemblance to its
predecessor, in that it is built into a 200 Td streamlined 4 X 29.8 m disc
hull.  There, however, the resemblance ends.  The hull material is
crystaliron; the computer-linked controls are best described as
bargain-basement level.  The ship comes unarmed, although an empty socket
is provided for retrofitting a light laser, and wilderness refuelling
capability has been sacrificed in the name of cargo capacity.

        Interior layout too is different; the bridge has been replaced with
a cockpit, and the lounge has been reduced in size to 5 tons.  Gone are the
large passenger staterooms and low berths of the CDB-1; in their place are
a dozen small staterooms for middle passengers.  All staterooms, both
passenger and crew, are located along the rim of the hull down two curving
corridors and enjoy floor-to-ceiling panoramic ports.  The lounge is
located directly aft of the cockpit, and engineering lies aft of the
lounge.  The rest of the vessel is tankage and cargo space (105 tons of
it), with cargo doors opening aft.  However, its price tag sets a record
low for an FSY vessel at 53.8 Mcr, and it reportedly will be able to earn a
living without speculative trading.

        This development will probably ease tensions at FSY HQ; there was
reportedly some concern at grand-parent levels of management about the
success of FSY's planned entry into the low end of the market..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:46:02 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: PBEM on the TML

>From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
>
>I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML the proper place
>for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA sidelines are),
>wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM and then post any
>Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the bandwidth on the TML
>for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list is for???????? 
>

Although I tend to agree with Joe on the ISBA posts (that is that they are
great adventure fodder), I must admit I haven't been reading all of them.  I
haven't had the time to keep up with all of the posts.  

Too, though, I can see Colin's point, and with that in mind, if the general
consensus (or list mgmt, however this works) is that the ISBA stuff is
inappropriate to the TML, I will check into setting up a ISBA list for the
posting of this stuff.  

I will also use that list as the major THUDDD contest area and only post the
final results to the TML (along with the URL to get to the complete listing).

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:13:32 +0800
From: crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew)
Subject: [TML] Jump Drive Fuel Use

<white globe off>

The question was asked (I forget by who, sorry! :)) how much energy was
generated by fusing 10 dT of LHyd to make a J1 in a 100dT starship.  Well
here is my back of the envelope estimate: (skip to the end if maths gives
you a headache!)

10dT = 135 kl = 9.45 tons = 9.45 Mg of Hydrogen = 9.45 million moles
(Going by MT numbers and 1 ton is 1000kg).

Fusing 4 atoms of hydrogen to 1 atom of helium releases about 25 MeV = 4 pJ
of energy.

Thus fusing 9.45 million moles of Hydrogen = 6 x 10^30 atoms releases about
2x10^19 J.

Answer: Fusing 10 dT of hydrogen releases about 20,000,000 TJ of energy.

If all of this jump fuel is used up in the 20 minutes before jump then the
jump drive is producing some 20,000 TW.  That's right 20 million GW coming
out of your typical Type S scout.  Even if you reduce this for a supposed
0.01% efficiency (a guess) this is an enormous amount of power.

So what is the jump fuel used for?  Cooling?

In MT the jump drive has a separate power plant for fusing the jump fuel.
Therefore it seems logical that the power plant is incredibly inefficent
and uses some of the LHyd as cooling because the radiators won't be
designed to handle this sort of power loading. The reason a separate power
plant is used is because the normal ship power plant would take weeks to
charge the jump grid (if it could do it at all).  The reason you wouldn't
use the power for anything else (like say a weapon) is that it would be a
one shot wonder because the jump power plant is designed to use LARGE
amounts of fuel (tons!) INEFFICENTLY and QUICKLY.

Any ideas how to explain CT and T4 jump drives which (I gather) use the
normal power plant to power the jump grid?

So when you see that type S scout you're chasing venting 500 kg of hydrogen
to space every minute (which is the only useful way using that much LHyd
for cooling will work) you'll know its going to jump soon and probably only
one parsec (given you detect all the gas vented).

Which brings up another interesting point - how long can a jump grid remain
'charged' before jumping (minutes, hours, days)?

We return now to our regularly scheduled press release...

<flicker white globe>

David Crew
crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au
Physicist, Engineer and lurking MT Ref...

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #945
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 13 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 946



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] MMT4 Tasks
Re: [TML] Critical Hit
[TML] ISBA PBEM on TML revisited
[TML] THUDDD suggestion
[TML] X-TEK Company Statement
Re:[TML] CDB-1 Question - SSDS vs. QSDS
Re: [TML] SSDS question
[TML] Geonee Online Sourcebook
[TML] Starship Pricing, ISBA meeting
[TML] {TML} Mudball Merchandising, LIC Announces it's entry into the ISBN 
[TML] Creating Geonee & Technicians (LONG)
Re: [TML] SSDS question
Life and the List
Ziru Sirka clots
My Homepage is now open!
Re: Life and the List

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:26:20 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] MMT4 Tasks

> David Reed wrote:
> > I like the new additions of the "pools" for combat, though a better name
> > could have been found for them.  I do question the validity of adding a
> > point to your END pool for EVERY combat task, though.  I don't find firing
> > a handgun, or even my shotguns, that tiring (and I seriously doubt that my
> > own END is much above a 5 or 6).  I need to think about it further, but
> > I'll probably only add points to the END pool for melee attacks, running,
> > etc.
> 
> I believe the END cost for all tasks represent s adrenaline. Sure firing a rifle is not very 
> tiring, but having someone shoot back at you would sure as hell be!

Good point Mused, but I don't read the END pool rules as apply to 
fire combat.  This is the same rule that was used in CT (or a version 
of it) for hand to hand combat only.

Look at the examples given for the rule.  They are all melee combat 
attack routines.

This, added with the earlier CT rule for melee, convinces me that 
this rule was meant to be used for HTH combat only.

Kenneth.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:21:26 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Critical Hit

 
> Actually, the first hit rule makes some sense. 

Hmmm.  Good food for thought, Douglas.

> >And why tempt "rules-players" to minorly injure themselves only to 
> >declare later in the combat that they have already taken damage and 
> >cannot be effected by the first blood critical hit rule.
> 
> It say that they "accidentaly" shot through a major vein.. That's
> unbelievably abusive, and anybody who tried it my game would be looking for
> something else to do on Friday nights.

Yes, same here.  No self respecting GM would allow this.  I just 
don't like the idea that it is possible.

In my games, I give my players a lot of say so in what goes on.  
Although I reserve and frequently invoke final arbitration, my 
players feel better when they can have a say in rulings.  We discuss 
things that don't seem to make sense, and this gives them an 
opportunity to state their views on a particular subject.

From one of these rule discussions came the debate over the "First 
Blood" rule, and the result, as you have seen in my previous post, 
was to only allow critical hits for spectacular success.

Although I do like what you've said about the first hit, I haven't 
heard enough to sway me.  I still like our interpretation and 
modification better.  

But, hey, name a GM who plays strickly by the book.

 
> I don't think PC dying quickly is the big problem in Traveller combat,
> indeed, as we proved on rec.games.frp.misc, it's damn hard to kill anybody.

You haven't been playing in my games.  The PCs just got through 
defending a space station against close to 1000 (yes, that's right) 
aliens used as a spearhead by the Zhodani (this is a prelude to the 
Fifth Frontier War.  The stations contains valuable information on 
lanthanum sites in a strategic subsector for the invasion).

The only thing I gave them was six Imperial Marine NPC's and terrain 
advantage (they were in the station and the invading aliens had to 
use their explosives to burst their way in).

But, I've got some incredibly creative players, and eventhough I play 
a very realistic game and do not play favorites with regard to saving 
PC lives, all of the PC's made it out alive.  Five of the six Marines 
were killed, but the players were playing them and were crafty with 
them.

During this combat it was evident to me that, even with my rules 
modification, Traveller combat is very dangerous.  Much more than, 
say, D&D, where you can sustain multiple hits because of a large 
amount of hit points.

I don't think Traveller is a "heroic" system at all.  D&D is a heroic 
system, as it should be, but Traveller has always kept one foot in 
the realm of realism.

I think that the hit point and damage system in Traveller reflects 
this (although not exactly).

> Not that this is a bad thing, I've always seen traveller as a "heroic"
> system.  In my game, I generally look at how mucjh the SS exceeded the task
> number by, and award an increased damage bonus based on that; unless there's
> something the player wants to do with his SS, like shot the gun out of the
> bad guy's hand.

See, I wouldn't be this easy on this in my game.  If a PC wanted to 
shoot the gun out of somebody's hand--no easy task--I would apply a 
called shot at the appropriate modifier.  I couldn't see awarding it 
just because a SS was rolled.

At the same time, my players like the bonus achieved with rolling a 
SS--the critical hit.  There's that extra thrill you get when you 
know you've probably just killed your target.  My rule change 
provides that--very similiar to the double damage awarded in D&D 
when a natural 20 is rolled.

I can see that you do play much more "heroic" than I do.  You are 
running Star Wars while I'm running Aliens.


> I think we are working with a different definition of what constitues a
> "critical hit".  This term doesn't appear in the rules, so I'm guessing that
> you're lumping the first hit rule in with increased damage attacks.  If I'm
> wrong please let me know.

I am refering to the first hit rule, but I am not increasing damage.  
The rule, as is, is deadly enough.  

Let's take a joe-average character with STR 7, DEX 7, and END 7.

This character gets hit, and with the first hit rule, there is a 
strong chance that he will be rendered unconscious by that first shot 
even with the 3 dice maxium.  3 D6 would average 10 or 11 points of 
damage, and there is a good chance that the character would have two 
attributes go to 0 rendering him with a very serious wound.

Even if the character is not dead (which would be impossible given 
the stats and the example I cited), he is effectively out of the 
combat and may be at the mercy of the enemy since he is unconscious.

Under my system, this is not likely to occurr, and the PC has a much 
better chance of living to fight another day.

> could you repost/send these to me?  I'd be interested in seeing them, and
> I'm setting up a website of alternate combat rules.

They are on Peter Miller's web site.  If you have trouble getting 
them, then let me know.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:59:24 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: [TML] ISBA PBEM on TML revisited

Whoops, i seem to have started a hornets nest here, Volker for one seems to
have misinterpreted my message (OR i wrote it badly), I'm not complaining
about the ISBA PBEM as im in it as well, i was just mearly asking was it
appropriate here, and as Joe Walsh pointed out, it does make good campaign
fodder, so what the hell. 


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:37:27 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: [TML] THUDDD suggestion

Something I'm using in my entry.

Take the total *annual* operating costs of a design (assuming 25
jumps per year) and divided it by the maximum total possible
annual income the ship can generate (again assuming 25 jumps per
year). This will then give you a percentage Required Breakeven
Occupancy i.e. how full the ship must be over a year to breakeven.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:36:11 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: [TML] X-TEK Company Statement

Here is my company responce to the dinner invitation, and company
statememnt/description.

X-TEK Industries, LIC
Spokesperson: Count Commander "X" (Real name is unknown/classified)

Company Statement:
X-TEK is a weapons, aerospace, and electronics firm.  Mainly a military
contractor, but some civilian equipment is produced by our
subsidiaries.  Our specialties include starship weapon systems, sensors
and optics, and propulsion.  It is natural that X-TEK would produce
ships, and therefore become a founding member of the ISBA.
Think of X-TEK as being like "Mackdounall Doughlass" or "LokHied Marton"
of ancient solomani history, but producing modern TL-12 equipment.

Subsidiaries:
"Noble Image" Pesonal Electronics
"X-TEK Central"  Vehicles and novelties
"Spy's R Us"  X-TEK's very own civilian "spy" shop.

Mission Statement:
Our goals are to produce the best military/paramilitary starships in the
Imperium.  As we now have secured this great imperium, we must now guard
our investmnet wisely.  The Imperium still has enemies, and as our
scouts come back frombeyond the imperial rim, no doubt there will be
other "pocket" imperiums out there who have hostile ntent, or would dare
to steal our imperium from us.  X-TEK believes in honor, duty, and
vigalance, so that our great Imperium can grow and flourish for our
children, and beyond.

- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:37:41 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re:[TML] CDB-1 Question - SSDS vs. QSDS

Dr Mark Clark wrote:

>
>  Well, I had some spare time today, so I decided to haul out my copy of
>QSDS v. 1.5 and build the Famille Spofulam CDB-1 (originally designed in
>SSDS) in QSDS terms.  I got fairly close in most areas, and even wound up
>with a slightly cheaper ship (62.97 MCr vs. 69.6 for the CDC-1) that
>carried 2.6 tons more cargo that had the same number of staterooms and
>other equipment.
>
>  The one main difference I found using QSDS is that I needed a lot more
>power.  The hull (200T Disk (S)) requires 54.6Mw, and the thrusters
>(factor 4) 56.0Mw, for a total of 110.6Mw for those components alone under
>QSDS.  When I added sensors, controls, and a comparable laser, the power
>needs went up to about 156Mw, essentially twice the 75Mw power supply that
>is shown for the CDB-1.
>
>  I'm curious why this might be - are there some power tricks you can do
>with SSDS that you can't do with QSDS, or are QSDS components of a lower
>tech level and so use more power (the CDB-1 is a TL-12 design)?


        Hm... beats me.  I've never messed around with the QSDS.  Also,
IIRC, the CDB-1 was overpowered by a few Mw.  I guess the standard
components are somewhat less expensive.  What I'd love to know is how it
came out with more cargo space despite using QSDS.  Did you put the lounge
in?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:37:47 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: [TML] SSDS question

KC Komosky wrote:

>
>I was just going through SSDS and making my THUDDD design. I then compared
>my final design to Roderick's sample Famille Spofulam design, when I came
>across a descrepancy.
>
>That design had a crew of four - a pilot, a navigator, an engineer, and a
>gunner/ steward. However, in the SSDS design sequence, Step 12, page 74 of
>Starships, it states that regardless of the reults, "ships up to 200 Td can
>be run by two persons" (although I would guess a steward/gunner would be
>extra).
>
>Since this is my first use of SSDS ever, I immediately suspect that I'm
>doing somewthing wrong, not Roderick, or that someone changed SSDS behind
>my back.
>
>Any clarification?

        Nope, it's me.  I put in excess crew for three reasons: 1)
security, 2) redundancy, and 3) gotta have crew slots for a decent-sized
role-playing group :).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:33:53 EST
From: galliand@juno.com
Subject: [TML] Geonee Online Sourcebook

After a quick bit of minor editting and HTML creation, I'd like to
announce the creation of the Geonee Online Sourcebook.  I've had a
separate link to material on my Traveller page for a little while, and
decided with  Carlos Alos-Ferrer's presentation of the TNE Pocket Emipre
and Rebellion era stats for the Geonee that it may be wise to give it its
own home.

The address of the online sourcebook is  

http://members.aol.com/sgalli5794/traveller/geonee/

Items currently in the sourcebook are:

- - Geonee Timeline
- - Massilia Sector UWPs (Rebellion-era) from the Sunbane archive
- - Geonee worlds of the Rebellion-era
- - Geonee TNE pocket empire.

I know, the page will probably look kinda bland, so if anyone has any
online artwork pertaining to the Geonee, please email me where to get it.
 Just remember that this is Carlos' work, so I'm going to run it by him
first before including it.

Any questions on the material should be sent to Carlos at
alos@merlin.fae.ua.es.  Any comments on the website should be sent to me
at galliand@juno.com.

Thanks, and enjoy.

Scott Galliand
Geonee Online Sourcebook Archivist

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:26:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: [TML] Starship Pricing, ISBA meeting

From Commander X at the office
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

I just had a very interesting thought.

What exactly to the prices of staships and thier compnets for anyway?  Whats 
the wolesale/retail values of these things.  In other words, what is the 
bottom line?

If we are going to go on with this ISBA thing and Buisness profiles, we need 
to know how much money the companies are raking in.  This will help to 
determine just how many ships such a corp can build and how to budget 
efectively and still make a profit.
(and you thought Free Traders had it rough, try running a Multi-Gigacredit 
Corporation!)

So far for my campain I am asuming all prices to be standard retail values. 
 50% is actual cost of the ship, what the company put into it and the other 
50% is profit.  That way the corp gets back double what it put into it. 
 Corps do not usualy finance, that the banks perogative.  The bank buys the 
ship from the corp. (Hmm...First X-TEK Financial....sounds lucrative! 
Cha-CHING!)

This of course will be one of the topics to be discused at the ISBA meeting.

This is a suggestion to Mr. Tim Reynolds re: that meeting.
May I suggest doing IRC, with email to people who for some reason cannot 
logon to IG's server.  We could use #ISBA.  I would suggest it 2 weeks after 
my SSDS class, same time 8pm EST.  That would make it March 1st (60-0000). 
 The Commnader is going to a simulation conference on Jax(Distant world on 
the Imperial Fringe) the next weekend Feb 21-22-23.  (<52-54>-0000).

Just a few tings to thing about.  And with that I leave you for now.  Play 
nice!  Remember Big bro...The Commander is watching you! :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:31:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Ripley <abiscott@pop.erols.com>
Subject: [TML] {TML} Mudball Merchandising, LIC Announces it's entry into the ISBN 

*flash* Sylean Post-Dispatch.  Sylea, Sylea.  Early this morning norious
corporate raider M. McCoy announced his plans to utilize his recently
acquired ship construction facilities  (ED: ref. "Does McCoy have what it
takes to play with the big boys?" 01-35-0003, and "McCoy rapes Lectronica
Shipyards" 01-55-0003, and "McCoy named Tycoon of the Year" 01-365-0003).
The Post-Dispatch has gotten permission for a series of in-depth interviews
with the mysterious and reclusive tycoon, which will be running in the next
few weeks.

McCoy announced that he was "firing up his Atari 52Million" and "putting his
head to the grindstone" in order to produce the ISBN competiont Far Trader
and Mercenary Cruiser designs.  "These designs are far behind the curve of
what the public wants" Stated McCoy, "But the publicity we will get when we
win will allow our REAl ships, such as the BXF-23 Safari Ship and the
800-ton SRC-5a System Reinforcement Cruiser, to get more Imperial attention"

Lectronica Shipyards has long been a player in the ready-made component
starship market, but fell into financial difficulty with their disasterous
"SCS-300" Scout-Courier design, which failed even the most cursory Imperial
Design Bureau scrutiny.  They were "absorbed" into the McCoy Mercantile
Empire, and all financial analysts fully expected tht thte shipyards, which
occupy a large area of prime industrial property in the Sylea system, would
be dismembered and sold piecemeal.  The announcement by McCoy that the
shipyards would be continuing in operation sent the Sylea 400 stuttering,
first losing 15 points, then gaining 25. Vurst Sigggarthu, Manager of Chase,
Manhatten Finacial Corp, stated that ">this departure from the norm had
confused and startled everyone".

Further information regarding this mysterious Tycoon, his strange behaviour,
and the new ship designs he apparently plans to produce, can be had in
future Editions of the Post-Dispatch.

*ENDTRANS*
*ACCOUNT DEDUCTED 5 CREDITS*
*Thank you for using the Sylea News Feed*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:03:22 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: [TML] Creating Geonee & Technicians (LONG)

        One of the most important characteristics of the Geonee culture is
the great importance they place on technology. So, when creating Geonee
characters, this must be reflected with the possibility to pursue a purely
technical career and/or attending technical studies. So, I created The
Technical School, The Technical Academy and The Technician Character Template.
        In addition, there is a minor modification for Geonee characters:
the high gravity of their homeworld gave them higher strength, but their
complexity made them less resistant (in comparison with other humans).
        Comments Welcome!

===============================================================================
Creating Geonee Characters
==========================

	The Geonee are humans, so the basic procedure in the T4 rulebook
applies with some minor modifications.

	Primary Characteristics: Roll and assign 2D6 to each of the six primary
characteristics by any of the three methods detailed in the main rulebook. Then,
compute the characteristics in the following way:

	Strength: 2D+1			Intelligence: 2D
	Dexterity: 2D			Education: 2D
	Endurance: 2D-1		        Social Status: 2D

	Homeworld: Select a homeworld among the Geonee populated worlds
according to the specific setting desired.

	Advanced Education: In addition to the options presented in the T4
rulebook, one more choice is quite popular among Geonee: technical studies,
centered on practical use and development of technology. Technical srudies are
pursued in Technical Schools and Academies.

	Careers: In addition to the standard ones, a significant proportion of
adult Geonee choose to pursue a career as general-purpose technicians.

	Note: The Technical School adn the Technical Academy exist on many
non-Geonee worlds, and other characters may attend to them and/or pursue a
Technician career. But, on the Geonee culture, these institutions and the
technicial career are prominent.

	The Technical School: (4 years)
        ====================
	As an alternative to college, a character may try to acquire technical
skills attending to specific centers, commonly called "Technical Schools".
Instead of +4 Edu, a graduate from a technical school adds +1 to his
Education, +1 to his Dexterity and +1 to his Computer skill for the full term.

	Prerequisite: Dexterity 5+
	Admission: 5-; DM+1 if Dex 8+; DM+2 if Int 9+
	Failed admission: No age penalty.
	Perseverance: 7-; DM+1 if End 8+; DM+2 if Int 8+
	Flunked Out: Spent 1D3 years (roll once per year on Technical Skills)
	Technical Skills: (roll one per year)
		1  Jack of all trades
		2  Mechanics
		3  Electronics
		4  Computer
		5  Technical
		6  Technical
	Graduation: Bachelor in Technical Studies (BTS)
	Honors: 9-; May apply for Technical Academy
		Benefit: +1 Edu

        The Technical Academy: (2 years)
        ======================
	Some individuals decide to pursue further studies in technical fields with
the aim or becoming researchers or specialized engineers. They do so in the
Technical Academies. Instead of +2 Edu, a graduate from a Technical Academy
adds +1 to his Education and +1 to his Computer skill for the full term.
	Characters may attend the Technical Academy only once.

	Prerequisite: Technical School Honors graduate
	Admission: 7-; DM+1 if Int 8+; DM+2 if Edu 8+
	Failed admission: No age penalty.
	Perseverance: 9-; DM+1 if End 8+; DM+2 if Int 8+
	Flunked Out: Spent 1 year (roll once on Technical Skills Table)
	Technical Skills: (roll one per year)
		1  Jack of all trades
		2  Technical
		3  Technical
		4  Computer
		5  Science
		6  Academic
	Graduation: Master in Technical Studies (MTS)
	Honors: 10-; Benefit: +1 Edu

        Technician Character Template:
        =============================
	Trained in technical skills and practical use of technology, technicians
can be found in many positions and fulfilling many roles, from mechanic
repairmen to starship engineers or computer programmers.
	Routine tasks: Machine operation, maintenance and repairing, technical
advisement, industrial research and development.

	Enlistment:	8-; DM+1 if Int 8+; DM+2 if Dex 8+
	Injury:		10-; DM+2 if Int 8+
	Commision:	None
	Promotion:	None
	Continuance:	9-

	1. Physical				4. Social
	    1 +1 Str				    1 Streetwise
	    2 +1 Dex				    2 Carousing
	    3 +1 Dex				    3 Bureaucracy
	    4 +1 End				    4 Clandestine
	    5 Gun Combat			    5 Language
	    6 Short Blade			    6 +1 Soc
	2. Mental				5. Career
	    1 Research				    1 Mechanics
	    2 Perception		            2 Electronics
	    3 Technical				    3 Computer
	    4 Technical				    4 Technical
	    5 JOT				    5 Technical
	    6 +1 Int				    6 Craftsman
	3. Educational				6. Background
	    1 Computer				    1 Vacc Suit
	    2 Technical				    2 Ground Craft
	    3 Technical				    3 Grav Craft
	    4 Technical				    4 JOT
	    5 Science				    5 Exploration
	    6 Academic				    6 Clandestine

Service Skills: Computer-1, Technical-1

Skill elegibility: 1 per year

Mustering out tables:

	Die Roll	Cash Table	Benefits Table
	1		1,000		Low Psg
	2		2,000		Med Psg
	3		5,000		High Psg
	4		10,000		Technical Instruments
	5		10,000		Hand Computer
	6		20,000		Weapon
	7		30,000		Weapon
			Max 3

	A technician may always apply for Technical School if he has not already
attended, instead of serving a term. Admission is automatic. The same is
true for
Technical Academy if the Technician is a Honors Graduate of the Technical
School.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:16:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: [TML] SSDS question

SSDS is correct, and so is Roderick...there, hows THAT for clarity ;-)

The ship design nominally requires a crew as Roderick designed, but since
canon has always stated that a Scout/courier could be run by one person,
and a 200T far or free trader could be run by a crew of two, the exception
is in there.

Of course, this is based on the ships running normally so that one person
could reasonably do the job of two...if your engineer has to stand by the
jumpdrive keeping the Whatchimifloozits lashed together  with the strap
from her spare bra, she's not going to be much use as a navigator, if
that's her other job!

Also, there are probably regulations in place in the Imperium regarding
crewing requirements for regularly scheduled passenger carriage or charter
ships; this can be ignored for the odd, informal charter arrangement

But the bottom line is: a 100 ton ship can be handled by one person, a 200
ton ship can be handled by two...the 100 ton ship, however can run OR
fight OR prepare for jump, but not all three.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, K.C. Komosky wrote:

> I was just going through SSDS and making my THUDDD design. I then compared 
> my final design to Roderick's sample Famille Spofulam design, when I came 
> across a descrepancy.
> 
> That design had a crew of four - a pilot, a navigator, an engineer, and a 
> gunner/ steward. However, in the SSDS design sequence, Step 12, page 74 of 
> Starships, it states that regardless of the reults, "ships up to 200 Td can 
> be run by two persons" (although I would guess a steward/gunner would be 
> extra).
> 
> Since this is my first use of SSDS ever, I immediately suspect that I'm 
> doing somewthing wrong, not Roderick, or that someone changed SSDS behind 
> my back.
> 
> Any clarification?
> 
> 
> By the way, what are the criteria used for judging these designs, if there 
> will be any at all. This ship, the T'o'k Free Trade by 'Tihkeer'reexkaap 
> Industries, was designed by trying to imagine how the K'kree would design a 
> human free trader. As a result, there are some rather "questionable" design 
> choices made.
> 
> 
> K.C. Komosky
> umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:38:54 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Life and the List

Ok, the backlog should be clearing up.  I still don't know what is causing it,
unless it is problems at MAE-East and MAE-West causing mail failures.  Any
way, any one with suggestions on how to get sendmail to behave better, feel
free to email me out of list with suggestions.

Re: [TML] in the header, counting my vote the results are:

     For:     20
     Against: 21
     Abstain:  2

One of the abstains was originally a no, but this is only 40 of the 500
people on the list.  This isn't enough of a difference to create a mandate.
 I have removed the [TML], though my gut says to leave it.  The list
management isn't a democratic process, but I belive in getting your input
and making the most people the happiest.  The majority of the people
aparently don't care, which doesn't help with this decision.  The
difference between votes was 1/2 of 1 percent.  With that said, I may bring
this up later after the header goes away and the backlog clears up.  Maybe
more votes will be spawned to sway things on way or the other.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:07:49 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Ziru Sirka clots

>Quoth Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>

>I recall the old maps of the Ziru Sirka having four or five "clots" of
>space shared between bureaux, which I always figured marked the locations
>of significant minor races with independent industry (and millions of
>potential consumers....) which all the bureaux wanted access to.
(SNIP)
>Another was smack where the Geonee homeworld lies (Massilia?).

        Unfortunately, the part of Massilia where the clot lies does NOT
correspond to Shiwonee and Shokee subsectors, IIRC. The Geonee area was
fully controlled by Sarurshid.

Carlos the Geonee-maker ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:03:43 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: My Homepage is now open!

At http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061
you can find information about me, TRAVELLER and Perry Rhodan.

There's not much there at the moment, just my future plans, but i be 
sure to check out the Perry Rhodan page for some really nice images i 
downloaded here in Germany! 

I am also planning to put scans of the covers of the German Traveller 
Adventures up there, if i can get permission from the publishers to 
do so!

Further plans include: Millieu: Perry Rhodan (The PR-Universe 
converted to Traveller), A  list of Alien sites throughout the 
Imperium. I will add those later when they are finished (help is 
appreciated!)
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:21:46 -0500
From: sturm <sturm@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Life and the List

- ------------439F567E56A41
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Here's my vote for the header.  Why wouldn't you want more information
in the subject to help you sort your mail?

sturm@tiac.net

- ------------439F567E56A41
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<HTML><BODY>

<DT>Here's my vote for the header.&nbsp; Why wouldn't you want more information
in the subject to help you sort your mail?</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>sturm@tiac.net&nbsp;</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------------439F567E56A41--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #946
**********************************
yTraveller-digest     Thursday, February 13 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 947



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: THUDDD/ISBA Monopoly concerns
ISBA News Feed
Re: THUDD, ISBA
Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA
List Down?
Controls&Costs
Re: Life and the List
THUDDD 10 Month Vote
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
[TML] Rules for Thought and a Shotgun Question
ping?
Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML
Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA
ISBA, crew requirements

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:34:11 -0600 (CST)
From: lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: Question about "micro-jumps"

Hi, all-

        Anybody else writing an adventure for the adventure writing contest?
I've got a question for all you knowledgeable folks in relation to the one
I'm doing: 
        Hypothetical situation: two ships are engaged in combat in a
planetary system.  Finally, one of the vessels receives enough damage that
they decide to withdraw and lick their wounds.  Now, within the context of
the T4 rules, is it possible for a ship to orient itself on a course
outsystem, then engage its jump drive for only a second or so, essentially
causing a "micro-jump" that will drop the ship out of jumpspace well outside
the system where it can make repairs.  Later, the ship can reorient on the
system and jump back in.
        Can this be done?  As near as I can tell there are no rules that say
this is impossible, and from what I've read about the theory of jump drives,
it seems like it could work.  Are there any inherent limitations or risks to
this procedure that makes it impossible?  I would appreciate any help or
insight you guys can give.

Thanks in advance,

Mike Lee
Classic Traveller Player since 1978

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:38:32 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD/ISBA Monopoly concerns

ON:   >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:23:48 -0800 (PST) 
      >From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
SAID IN
>********Roleplay Mode Off***********
>
>  By the way, I think the idea of everything coming from one company's
>catalog as an explanation for QSDS and SSDS is a bit restrictive.  I
>prefer the idea that there are certain pre-approved designs (my concept
>of Sylea Industry Norm - sort of like DIN or other industry agreements)
>that are cheaper because they are pre-certified.  For example, in the
>United States there is one kind of wall socket for 120 Volt AC power.
>There is no government regulation of that socket, and lots of companies
>make them - it's just that everybody agreed years ago on one design,
>and that's now the de-facto standard.

Mark, I appreciate your concern, but if you cheat and look ahead at any more
of my Role-Playing plans, I'm going to have to have my Zhodani spies kill
you. :)

Really, I had planned to post the next part of that today.  Just keep
reading and don't be concerned.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:39:11 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: ISBA News Feed

FLASH Sylea News

In a bold announcement today, the Imperial Appropriations Committee in
conjunction with the Imperial Ship Builder's Association stated that they
would no longer require shipyards to use QuipTech equipment for Imperial
purchased starships.

This announcement came shortly after another announcement detailing the
record acceptance of the ISBA among shipbuilders.  Citing complaints about
monopolization and government kickbacks, the Imperial Bureaucracy decided in
against a lower body's decision that QuipTech be the sole supplier for
Imperial shipyards.

The desision announced that all equipment must be proven to meet the
standard norms displayed in both of QuipTech's standard catalogues, QSDS and
SSDS.  As expected, Director Savant was rather displeased with the decision.

"This is an outrage!!" was the only comment we were able to gather as
Director Savant was led from the meeting hall to his awaiting limo.  We have
been told to expect a press conference from QuipTech shortly.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:38:28 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: Re: THUDD, ISBA

>A Clearification is need.  I started ISBA because I was inspired by 
>the fun comments made in ship discriptions and THUDD.  Right now 
>THUDD and ISBA are seprate.  But members of THUDD are members of ISBA
>As matter of fact the first nine ISBA were the first nine THUDD 
>members thats why I asked them first.  If THUDD wants to join ISBA as 
>a special project then thats ok buy me.

THUDDD is a subsidiary of QuipTech and we have (hopefully) been granted an
honorary membership in the ISBA (that's what the press release said anyway).
In role-playing terms, THUDDD is the Marketing/Management subsidiary of
QuipTech that has been (or soon will be) contracted to run the Imperium's
(and eventually the ISBA's) ship design contest.  In real life, I hope to
work with tim closely and help see that the THUDDD/ISBA partnership can grow
side-by-side, but while he oversees the ISBA, I will run THUDDD and that's
as they say is that. :)

>I am just over filled with applications and cant even design a ship 
>my self for THUDD so I just need to clear this up THUDD is somebody 
>elses monster I have my own :  )

For the rest of this month, rather, for the rest of this month's contest
(the far trader) Roderick will be in charge.  After that, THUDDD is in my
hands.  I hope to continue THUDDD as long as there are still ships left to
design.

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:57:32 -0500
From: James Garriss <jpg@langley.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

At 05:38 PM 2/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi.
>
>Sorry Twolf, but I gotta side with Mr. Hale on this. I've seen similar
>announcements before, and they all turned out to be canards. Would it be
>too obnoxious of me to insist on seeing a verifiable reference?

Try http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html

All you wanted to know about this (real) event and more.

 James Garriss                     "Airplanes are interesting toys 
 System Engineer, MITRE                 but of no military value."
 jpg@langley.mitre.org                     Marechal Ferdinand Foch
 http://www.cs.odu.edu/~garriss            Professor of Strategy @
                                         Ecole Superieure deGuerre

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

In-Reply-To: <199702110525.XAA03116@eagle.wbm.ca>

<< J. Michael Strazinski (SP?) set a 
record for writing in a television series: though there were several 
writers for the first two seasons, JMS wrote *all* the episodes in 
season 3. The third season was pivotal in his story arc, IIRC, no other 
writer has *ever* written all the episodes for one year of *any* 
television series. >>

Terry Nation wrote all of season 1 (and 2?) of _Blake's 7_.

As well as all of S3, JMS wrote the last couple of S2 and all (so far) 
of S4, something like 40 in a row.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:15:43 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA

The engineers at Pan-Imperia have run into a few snags in the QSDS process
that I haven't seen clarified yet:

1) Does a ship 200 dt or under need a bridge? One of our recent designs (the
REALLY Fat Trader) had a crew that needed 2 Command "by the book" if no
jobs were shared;and this calls for a bridge via the design rules. Yet,
since any
200 dt ship is capable of being run by a crew of 2, would a bridge be required?

2) Similiarly, how many workstations are required for a ship with an
official crew
of 12 that can be run by 2 folks?

3) If we use the minimum crew of 2 or 3, assuming job swapping, how are crew 
salaries determined?

4) I don't remember ever seeing an explanation of what the disadvantages of the
lower TL controls are...(manybe this could solve #1 and #2: only at TL12 are the
controls automated enough to allow the minimum crew level...Two probs: what 
breakthrough is involved to explain it, and what does this do to canon and 
background if anything?)

5) Oh, and uh, yeah...when are these designs due? <g>

And I'd just like to say DAMN it's hard to get anything economical under QSDS
that remotely resembles the ol' favorite from CT.

Until a decision is made about where the ISBA postings will be done, Pan-Imperia
and ValuJump will be following a news blackout: Gotta let those engineers have
some time to work on designs and clean up the mess at the ol' testing grounds,
anyhoo! 

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"All Our Cargo is Carry-On" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:20:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: List Down?

Hi all-

I haven't gotten *anything* from this list for several days.  Either it's
down, or I got dropped somehow.  If it is not down could someone in charge
of the list see about getting me placed back on? 

Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:22:09 -0500 (EST)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Controls&Costs

>        Well, it looks like it is possible to do a 200td J-2 vessel that
>has a decent chance of making money!  I used a crystaliron hull, TL9
>controls, 

	I'm sorry, but you can't have a J-2 ship with TL-9 controls.  You 
can't have things installed on your ship that exceed the TL of your 
controls.  Why?  Can you imagine operating a PEMS or j-drive with 
low-tech mechanical controls? Of course not.  I don't know if this rule 
was ommitted from Q/SSDS, but it's in FF&S, on which both systems are based.

>       OTOH, this is a really boring ship, with very little in the way of
>capabilites.  And, although it is unarmed and lacks wilderness refining
>capability as does the Far Trader in the T4 manual, it's still 22 Mcr more
>even done by cutting just about every corner.

	The reason that you can't match the T4 design, as everyone should 
know by now, is that the ships in T4 weren't created with any design 
system, they were just made up out of thin air and then assigned prices.  
Sad as it may sound, many of IG's published ships are, from the point of 
view of the official design systems, "non-canon."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:37:03 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Life and the List

>Here's my vote for the header.  Why wouldn't you want more information
>in the subject to help you sort your mail?

Because the subjects are harder to read WHEN sorted. Most internetters use
a REAL e-mail program that can sort incoming mail on the <from> field or
<reply to> field for instance. If your e-mailer cannot sort mail - change
e-mailer.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:32:22 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: THUDDD 10 Month Vote

OK, There seemed to be a bit of confusion with my previous posts, so here I
am to try and clear everything up (usually I make a great mud pie when doing
this. :)

I am now accepting votes on what ten ships people want to do next in the
THUDDD contest.  Since I will be heading up THUDDD after this month, I
wanted to know what ships we will be doing so I can come up with a mission
spec for each of them beforehand.

So, if you haven't already voted, please send in a vote for the next ten
ships (in order) to be counted aong with everyone else.

And in case you are wondering, after 14 votes, the following six ships are
in the lead...

1. & 2. Merc Cruiser & Patrol Cruiser (tie)
3. & 4. Free Trader & Yacht (tie)
5. & 6. Subsidized Merchant & Fighters (tie)

One last note, any questions specific to this month's THUDDD competition
(the Far Trader), send to Roderick, but any questions for THUDDD in general
or to me specifically, send to me :)

Paul  {tiger}			http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

AKA -  Lt.(jg) Roger Camp, Engineering assistant, USS Saratoga
       Dr. Nathan Shukii, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Skyrunner PBeM)
       Miller Philibus, Director, BARD Archives (Reformation Coalition)
       Game Master - Sylean Federation Group PBeM
       Dr. Olivar Preston "Stoney" Osborn, PhD, Archeology UU (AAB PBeM)
       Sir Davis Grambley, Imperial Navy, Ret. (Reavers IRC Game)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:00:14 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

>        Hypothetical situation: two ships are engaged in combat in a
>planetary system.  Finally, one of the vessels receives enough damage that
>they decide to withdraw and lick their wounds.  Now, within the context of
>the T4 rules, is it possible for a ship to orient itself on a course
>outsystem, then engage its jump drive for only a second or so, essentially
>causing a "micro-jump" that will drop the ship out of jumpspace well outside
>the system where it can make repairs.  Later, the ship can reorient on the
>system and jump back in.

>Classic Traveller Player since 1978

All jumps no matter what length takes about one week. You'd definately
avoid the combat but you'll be in hyperspace for a week.

On another note: Can ones jump destination be the same as the origin? I
allow it and it has been used by clever players/pirates to get some heat
from patrol cruisers et c.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:14:10 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: [TML] Rules for Thought and a Shotgun Question

We're going back to basics in my game.  First, some notes on that, 
followed by a question about shotguns.  

I'm going to be adhereing more strictly to the basic rules in the T4 
main book eventhough I put a lot of time and effort into the House 
Rules that I posted a few months back.  These are on Peter Miller's 
web site if any of you want to add more detail to your Traveller 
game.

There are many reasons for this revision to the basic rules, but 
chief among these is the limited amount of time that I have for 
Traveller lately (hence my lack of involvement on this list).

Although my House Rules are a good set of additions for Traveller, 
and I stand by them, they were not play tested at the time I posted 
them.  I've made some revisions, deletions, and additions to improve 
the speed of play.  

I have learned that maintaining an alternative rules set is a lot of 
work.  I wanted to just write them once and leave it, but I am forced 
to continually correct problems that occur in play and make additions 
for things that I had not thought of.

Another problem (well not really a problem) is that Traveller is a 
growing game.  We know have the basic rules, but more rules continue 
to come.  Things in the CSC, especially the vacuum damage rule, 
replaced my rule for the same thing.  

My players are carrying around two rules sets--mine and the T4 main 
book.  So, for all of these and many more reasons, I am reverting 
back to the T4 basic rules.  Sure, I'm still going to fix what I 
think needs fixin', but it should be a lot less work for me to 
provide occasional rules modifications rather than maintain a 
complete alternate rules version.

Besides, from what I've seen of the Emperor's Arsenal, we're already 
in for some more detailed rules, and I like to keep as close as I can 
to the official rules.  It reduces the amount of GMwork required and 
keeps us feeling legitimate.

Still, I've made a few changes to the rules listed in the main book.  
Not many, mind you--just some nicks and tucks here and there, and I 
thought that I would share them with you.  

And, here they are--listed by page number.  I welcome any comments.  
These rules are written towards my players, but it is easy to derive 
the benefit from them if they interest you.

Page 49 (Rule Change):  At the top of this chapter, I have marked the
formula for our task system.  It reads--	
 Target Number Calculation:  (Skill x 2) + (Attribute / 2)  round up

Page 50 (Rule Modification):  In the task difficulty box at the top of
the page, change the dice code for Staggering tasks to 4D, and, for
Impossible tasks, change the code to 5D.

Page 52 (Rule Clarification):  There are three systems for rolling
initiative given.  Although I may use one of the others from time to
time, the default system we are using is the Individual Initiative
system.  We will use this system as listed (and this is on my list for
a later rules modification), but I want to clarify how the Leadership
skill will be used in modifying the roll.

As we have already been playing it, the Leadership skill can only be
used to modify the initiative roll if the person determined to be in
command, or a leadership position, has the skill.  If there is a clear
leader in the situation, and he doesn't have the skill, then it cannot
be used to alter everyone's initiative Note that the Leadership
modifier does apply to everyone within the leader's command
radius--not just the leader's initiative roll.  This simulates group
coordination brought on by good, personal leadership skills.

If there is a clear leader, and he does have Leadership as a skill,
but another character has a higher Leadership skill, the actual
leader's skill must be used even if it is lower than another's even
though the rule book says that the highest Leadership score should be
used.  Of course, the character with the higher Leadership score could
"take command" as often happens in combat situations in which case the
new leader's skill level will be used.

Note that usually, for a leader to have command, he must be with the
group to be able to direct them.  There will be some situations, as
was the case in the movie Aliens, where technology (cameras and
radios) are used to allow a leader to command from a distance. 
Remember the lieutanant in the movie commanding the group from the
station in the APC, communicating through the console?  I will referee
this on a situation by situation basis.

Page 52 (Rules Modification):  At the top of the second column, it
states how far a character can move in a given combat round--15 meters
if walking and 30 meters if running.  I consider these general
guidelines for human movement, but sometimes it is necessary to know
exactly how far a character can move.  In order to determine this, I
have come up with a rule based on your character's physical stats. 
Whenever it is important to know exactly how far your character can
move in a round, just plug your character's current physical stats
into the equation below.
 Run distance in one round is:  (Str + Dex + End) x 1.5 meters    

 Trot distance in one round is:  2/3 Run distance.
 Walk distance in one round is:  1/2 Run distance.
 Crawl distance in one round is:  1/3 Run distance.

 drop fractions on all final calculations

Page 56 (Rule Modification):  The Autofire rules on page 56 say that
every target adjacent to the primary subject of a fully automatic
burst is subject to an attack.  Then the rules go on to say that the
referee decides which adjacent targets are attacked if there is
insufficient ammunition to attack them all.

This poses a problem if a character has a very high skill level and
target number because it is unrealistic to assume that a character can
fire a five round burst and put one bullet into each of a group of
five people standing together--no matter how skilled the character is.

To fix this, I am instituting a rule that puts limits on the number of
additional targets that can be attacked.  You should mark this in your
book on page 56.
 Burst Size			Additional Targets
 3 round burst		1 adjacent target
 4-5 round burst		2 adjacent targets
 6-9 round burst		3 adjacent targets
 10+ round bursts	4 adjacent targets

How close is adjacent?  Usually this will be within 1.5 meters of the
target, but the GM will assign different danger spaces in certain
circumstances.

Page 58 (Rule Modification):  In using the Multiple Action rule under
our modified task system, we run into some problems.  There is an easy
solution.  Simply divide the target number by the number of actions
you want your character to perform in the same round and drop
fractions.  When the target number drops below 1, no more actions can
be performed in the round.  For situations where the character is
trying to perform more than one type of task, rather than repeated use
of the same task (like brawling blows), use the lowest target number
for this calculation.

Page 60 (Rule Addition):  We will be using all of the optional rules
listed on page 60, but it is not clear how loss of End due to fatigue
is recovered.  So, I made a rule.  Chances are that this will not be
necessary to calculate in a game because it takes longer to recover
from fatigue than it does to fight in a session of combat.  But, just
in case we need it, here is the rule.
 Fatigue (End) recovery:
 Rest for 16 - End rounds to recover 1 point of End.

Page 105 (Rules Addition):  At the top of page 105, close to the
Additional Software table, make a note that there are computer
programming rules listed on page 21 of BJTAS #1 and in CT main rule
books.

Page 113 (Rule Addition):  On the Crew Salaries table at the bottom of
page 113, the steward's position has been omitted.  Add this to the
table--
 Position	Minimum Skill Level		Monthly Salary
 Steward	Steward-0			Cr3,000 

Page 115 (Rule Clarification):  At first glance, the Travel Formulae
is confusing.  In the box next to the formula, define the variables
like this--
 D = Km x 1,000		(convert kilometers to larger units)
 A = G x 10		(ship's G rating x 10)
 T = Seconds		(express time in seconds)

Here is another form of the same expression.  I've written this at the
top of page 115, and it is helpful to use this version of the formulae
to find out how long it takes a ship to travel long distances.  Note
in this expression of the same formulae, the variables have changed to
represent different quantities.
 T = Square Root of (D / A / 32.4)

 where
 D = Km / 1,000		(convert to meters)
 A = G			(A is equal to the G rating of the ship)
 T = Hours			(express time in hours)



And now, I have a question.  How are you guys dealing with shotguns 
in the basic rules?  I haven't seen a provision for group hits like 
they've done for autofire, so before I go converting old CT rules to 
T4, I'm curious how all of you are handling it.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 17:15:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: ping?

Two days in a row, now, I haven't seen _any_ TML - has something
gone kaflooey?

If the list is still going out, and a subscriber or Rob sees
this, pong me by email...

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  "She's a witch!  Burn her!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:44:29 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML

Del Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK

- ----------

Thus spake Colin Hollands  
> I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML
the proper place
> for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA
sidelines are),
> wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM
and then post any
> Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the
bandwidth on the TML
> for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list
is for???????? 
> 
An excellent point.
Although I have enjoyed reading this stuff, it does get on
the monotonous side if you're not involved.
And the chances are I won't get involved - unless these new
shipyards start up in the MT era......My Choice.

Could this be one last attempt at mass communication before
our 'Colonial Friends' (no offence intended) have to start
paying for their local telephone calls ? Surely this would
be better suited to 'THUDDPBEMML'..?
Then I wouldn't have to wait for 15 minutes to download a
load of stuff that goes directly to my Deleted tray!

Sorry if this is a little harsh, but maybe some others feel
the same way...

Cheers.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:56:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA

On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Paul D. Owensby wrote:

> The engineers at Pan-Imperia have run into a few snags in the QSDS process
> that I haven't seen clarified yet:
> 
> 1) Does a ship 200 dt or under need a bridge? One of our recent designs (the
> REALLY Fat Trader) had a crew that needed 2 Command "by the book" if no
> jobs were shared;and this calls for a bridge via the design rules. Yet,
> since any
> 200 dt ship is capable of being run by a crew of 2, would a bridge be required?
> 
> 2) Similiarly, how many workstations are required for a ship with an
> official crew
> of 12 that can be run by 2 folks?
> 
I have just one question...How did you possibly end up with a crew
requirement of <12> on a 200 dT ship???

Go back and re-read the crewing sections of QSDS and SSDS...I suspect
you're rounding up where you don't have to, and possibly before you have
to. Remember all crew final requirements are figured after the entire ship
is designed, that's when you add all those 'fractional' crew numbers up.

I can't see more than 4 for a minimal 200dT trader: Pilot, Navigator,
Electronics, and Engineering.  Maybe throw in Gunnery and Steward if
you're anal about it. That gives you six, right below the 'Command crew' 
level.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:00:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: ISBA, crew requirements

*** From _Stellar Commerce Weekly_, 228/000 ***

CAC/Tassini Reconsiders ISBA Membership

CAPITOL, SYLEA/CORE - Amid growing controversy concerning the purpose of
the newly formed Imperial Ship Builders' Association (ISBA), Ce Acatl
Corporation (CAC) is considering resigning from the organization.  CAC,
which last week announced its acquisition of Tassini Yards, is a large
engineering services firm with approximately 350,000 employees on 4 Sylean
worlds. 

Though best known for design and consulting work on ground and orbital
transport systems, many industry analysts expect CAC to become a major
player in the small-starship industry through the acquisition of Tassini,
a small but highly regarded shipyard on Sylea.  As such, membership of
CAC/Tassini in the ISBA was seen as an important signal of commitment to
this industry.

However, the birth of the ISBA has not been tranquil.  Serious controversy
has erupted between members over business practices and labor relations,
and some unsubstantiated charges of industrial sabotage have been made
(see related stories, pages 15-17).  Arpidol Zilznik, the CEO of CAC, held
a press conference on 226/000, at which he remarked "We are interested in
working together with our industry colleagues to build better ships, not
in joining a rude debating society, nor a monopolistic antiunion trust." 
Zilznik went on to say that the CAC Board of Directors would be
"carefully reviewing" the question of continued ISBA membership over the
coming weeks.

In related news, anonymous reports from the Tassini test facility indicate
that flight tests of the prototype "Pochteca" Far Trader may begin as
early as next week.  If true, this would confirm earlier rumors that
Tassini had been working on the Far Trader design well before their
acquisition by CAC.

*** END ***

And now, back to out-of-character mode...

I'm confused about how much leeway there is in crew requirements for small
starships.  By my calculations using strict QSDS rules, a typical 200-ton
Far Trader mounting a laser, a sandcaster, and improved avionics would
need at least 7 crewmembers:

  1 engineering
  1 electronics
  2 maneuver (pilot, astrogator)
  2 gunnery (laster, sand)
  1 command (for the 6 above)
 ----
  7

In addition to these, you'll need 1 medic to carry any passengers at all
(and this is enough for the crew/passengers of reasonable 200-ton
traders), plus at least one steward, two if you plan on carrying 7 or more
high passengers along with any mid-psgs at all, or 8 or more
hi-psgs with no mid-psgs.  With the medic and one or two stewards, we're
up to 9 or 10 crew.

Now, against this we have the statement that 2 people can operate a
200-ton ship, and the trend toward collapsing the 9 or 10 crew
positions into 4 or 5 actual people in most Far Trader designs.  Also,
while it's stated that you need a large stateroom for the commander
(captain/owner) and smalls for other folks, one frequently sees violations
of this (all smalls, double-bunking, and so forth).

So, my question is this:  For purposes of THUDD, we need to clarfiy this
rather murky area.  Or is it perhaps the case that part of THUDD
evaluation will be crew comfort and capability?  If I put 5 people crewing
a ship that needs 10 by the strict rules, what capabilities are lost or
diminished?  Will high passengers really ride on a ship where their
steward is also the gunner, half the engineering staff, and the
astrogator?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #947
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 14 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 948



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES
Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML
Re: Crew Size for CDB-1
Re: Controls&Costs
Re: SSDS vs. QSDS and the CDB-1
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #939
Uncle Al
B5 and linear consistency
Re: [TML] Life and the List
[TML] Charsheets
Technical School
Re:THUDDD 10 month vote list
Re: [TML] Rules for Thought and a Shotgun Question
Re:  [TML] Jump Drive Fuel Use
Re MMT4 Tasks
Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek
Re: THUDDDDDDDDDDDDD.D Voting
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Cargo costs...
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
ISBA Membership
YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] INTERNET RATE HIKES

Hi.

> From: James Garriss <jpg@langley.mitre.org>

>> Would it be
>> too obnoxious of me to insist on seeing a verifiable reference?

> Try http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html

Thanks!

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:41:46 -0800 (PST)
From: " Paul  Zumstein" <pzum@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] PBEM on the TML

Joseph E. Walsh wrote:

>
>Hi Colin,
>
>Good point; this isn't the proper place for PBeM's to occur.  OTOH, these 
>ISBA posts are *great* fodder, and of much broader appeal than a standard 
>PBeM.  It's more like reading a piece of a full-fledged TAS business 
>journal every day.  I'd love it if IG took this stuff and put it into 
>JTAS #26.  I can see a series of articles growing out of this, maybe even 
>a supplement someday.  
>
>Just MHO, of course.  If a decision is made to take the ISBA stuff off 
>the TML, I'd like to be included on whatever alternate list is set up; I 
>won't be contributing, but I'd like to continue to read these posts.
>
>
>-Joe
>

I'm with you Joe!  This has been very entertaining!

PZ


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:45:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Crew Size for CDB-1

>
>I was just going through SSDS and making my THUDDD design. I then
compared
>my final design to Roderick's sample Famille Spofulam design, when I came
>across a descrepancy.
>
>That design had a crew of four - a pilot, a navigator, an engineer, and a
>gunner/ steward. However, in the SSDS design sequence, Step 12, page 74
of
>Starships, it states that regardless of the reults, "ships up to 200 Td
can
>be run by two persons" (although I would guess a steward/gunner would be
>extra).
>
>Since this is my first use of SSDS ever, I immediately suspect that I'm
>doing somewthing wrong, not Roderick, or that someone changed SSDS behind
>my back.
>
>Any clarification?

  I seem to recall that the stated minimum applies to "normal operations"
- - combat requires the number of crew that the calculations call for.  What
is unclear is if you need to do the calculations for how many crew,
install that many workstations, and then the small one or two person crew
has to move between the workstations to fly the ship, or if a 100T ship
only needs one workstation (or a 200T ship 2).

  By the way, I noticed that some of the very small TL12 power plants are
rated as using 0.0 crew.  I suppose one could reduce crew requirements by
using a whole bunch of these instead of one big power plant - I just get
the picture of a ship with a whole bunch of portable generators wired in
series.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:05:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Controls&Costs

Hi.

> From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>

>	The reason that you can't match the T4 design, as everyone should 
> know by now, is that the ships in T4 weren't created with any design 
> system, they were just made up out of thin air and then assigned prices.  
> Sad as it may sound, many of IG's published ships are, from the point of 
> view of the official design systems, "non-canon."

The ships in T4 are all buildable at or very near cost by the Book 2
"Starships" design system. They are all very canonical, much more so
than QSDS (a T4 afterthought) or SSDS (a botched system in a botched
book) or even FFS (a shiboleth for a very small Traveller sub-clique).

The reason you can't match the T4 design is because these design systems
are apparently broken by T4 standards. It seems to me that a desirable
design system will be compatable with the Trav universe. I am still
waiting to see such a design system for T4.

While I wait, I continue to use High Guard, which is very good, but not
quite ideal. I have a system for converting from High Guard USP's to T4
USP's which seems to work pretty well with my homebrew combat system.
But the conversion system still has two snags in it. Does anyone here
know:
1) How do you get the T4 USP value for a meson screen?
2) How do you get the T4 USP value for a repulsor battery?

I'll post my conversion system here soon, along with a bunch of T4 ship
profiles featuring oldies classics like the (non-broken) type S scout
courier, type A free trader, Kinunir class battle cruiser and Lightning
class fleet intruder.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:01:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: SSDS vs. QSDS and the CDB-1

>  The one main difference I found using QSDS is that I needed a lot more
>power.  The hull (200T Disk (S)) requires 54.6Mw, and the thrusters
>(factor 4) 56.0Mw, for a total of 110.6Mw for those components alone 
under
>QSDS.  When I added sensors, controls, and a comparable laser, the power
>needs went up to about 156Mw, essentially twice the 75Mw power supply
that
>is shown for the CDB-1.
>
>  I'm curious why this might be - are there some power tricks you can do
>with SSDS that you can't do with QSDS, or are QSDS components of a lower
>tech level and so use more power (the CDB-1 is a TL-12 design)?

***********************************************************************
        Hm... beats me.  I've never messed around with the QSDS.  Also,
IIRC, the CDB-1 was overpowered by a few Mw.  I guess the standard
components are somewhat less expensive.  What I'd love to know is how it
came out with more cargo space despite using QSDS.  Did you put the lounge
in?
***********************************************************************

  I'll have to look at my notes, but I don't think I added a separate
lounge.  I've always assumed, based on published Traveller deckplans, that
the space allocated to staterooms does not represent the room itself, but
the room, hallways, lounges, food prep areas, hot tubs, whatever.  Thus,
if I did see a reference to the lounge, I assumed it to be part of the
description, rather than a component that had to have tonnage allocated to
it.

  As for power usage, I assumed that the power plant was sized to do
everything at once - life support, thrust, fire the laser, and refine
fuel.  A more conservative design might have used a smaller power plant,
but for an adventurer's ship, I'd like to be able to run, shoot, use the
sensors, and refine that last bit of fuel needed for jump, all at the same
time.


______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:17:59 -0500 (EST)
From: cohiba@netaxs.com (MattK)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #939

Unsubscribe Traveller Matthew Korang (MattK)
"A Cigar Is Never Just A Cigar" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:50:27 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Uncle Al

Sam:
>"Uncle" Al Stoliczynyski????
>Whizzzzzz!!! Sound of that one going right over my pointed head!!
>
>But please enlighten the this most ignorant one.<G>
Uncle Al, the Duelist's Pal, Proprietor of Uncle Al's Car and Gunnery Shop
(and Catalogs), from the Car Wars setting...



William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:55:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: B5 and linear consistency

>
>B5 is totally different to any other SF series. Characters evolve, and
>our perceptions of them change.

Not so! _Battlestar: Galactica_ was very much linear over the course of the
show (excluding the horrible revival _BG:1980_). Characters and villains
grew, their relationships changed, they matured, and even died.

Voyager is also doing similar (but not as intense) character growth and
relationship development.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:08:40 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: [TML] Life and the List

Rob Miracle wrote:
> 

> Re: [TML] in the header, counting my vote the results are:
> 
>      For:     20
>      Against: 21
>      Abstain:  2
> 
> One of the abstains was originally a no, but this is only 40 of the 500
> people on the list.  This isn't enough of a difference to create a mandate.

> Rob

Hi there! I find it a good idea! Will keep it up anyway.
CyA
Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:46:47 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: [TML] Charsheets

Hi there!

I have maid Charsheets for MT (original, as in the Players Handbook) and
T4 (I have redesigned it a little bit, because I never have enough space
for skills and so). I'm not sure, if I should send it to TML as I don't
know if I conflict any legal aspects of Traveller if I do so.

Anyway the sheets have been maid with CorelDraw 5.0

If it's legal, and someone from IG tells me so, everybody can have them.

CyA
Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 22:52:26 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Technical School

On 02/13/97 at 05:03 PM,  Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es> said:

>         One of the most important characteristics of the Geonee culture
> is the great importance they place on technology. So, when creating
> Geonee characters, this must be reflected with the possibility to pursue
> a purely technical career and/or attending technical studies. So, I
> created The Technical School, The Technical Academy and The Technician
> Character Template.

Carlos, one of the first additions I plan to make to the Advanced Education
process is a 2 year Technical School.  As the rules are now, College is
more academic-oriented than hands-on technical.  I think we really need
some sort of Tech School that focuses just on technical skills.

I haven't read your aritcle yet, but I will with great interest.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:00:12 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re:THUDDD 10 month vote list

<<1) The X-Boat:
What about the 100-ton Express Boat?  Granted, X-boats tend to stay in the
background, rather than becoming actively involved in play, but they're a
*very* important part of that background.  As the Imperium expands, and
both fusion- and jump technology advances, an overhaul of the courier
network would be almost inevitable.>>

Hmm. Now I may be wrong, but didn't the XBoat network (as such) only get
established after the civil war (the *1st* one, for all you TNE players and
refs!). I've vague recollections of reading that somewhere.

Incidently, anyone know what TL did the 2nd Imperium get to before it collapsed?

    -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"But everything is still the same; passing the time, passing the blame.
We carry on in the same old way, we'll find out we left it too late one day,
 to say what we meant to say." - Marillion
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:36:14 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Rules for Thought and a Shotgun Question

Here's one modification that I left off the original post.

Page 57 (Rule Modification):  About one third the way down the right
column on page 57 is the First Hit rule that says all damage from the
first hit incurred by a character will be distributed randomly among
the character's physical stats.  We will continue to alter this rule
by only allowing this if the to hit throw against the character was a
spectacular success.  Otherwise, the first hit, like all hits, can be
placed against a character's stats in any way the player chooses as
long as actual points from one die are not broken up.  From here on
out, we will call this the Critical Hit rule since this type of hit
has a good chance of killing or neutralizing a character.


Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:34:56 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re:  [TML] Jump Drive Fuel Use

 Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:13:32 +0800,  crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew);
>Answer: Fusing 10 dT of hydrogen releases about 20,000,000 TJ of energy.
>
>If all of this jump fuel is used up in the 20 minutes before jump then the
>jump drive is producing some 20,000 TW.  That's right 20 million GW coming
>out of your typical Type S scout.  Even if you reduce this for a supposed
>0.01% efficiency (a guess) this is an enormous amount of power.
>
>So what is the jump fuel used for?  Cooling?

Well, first of all, while you can invoke cooling, the fact is
that it could, in fact, take that much energy to get into
jump space (you are, after all, trying to leave the universe).

As to efficiency, you could guess the lower limit by
figuring they would be willing to sacrifice more fuel
for a smaller, less eff., reactor as long as the output
of the less efficient reactor is significantly greater
(lets call a factor of 5 significant) than the output
of a more efficient reactor with a volume equal to the
volume of the less efficient reactor plus the extra
fuel.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:44:19 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re MMT4 Tasks

>> My biggest problem with T4 as a whole is tasks; Second to that isthe
>> inconsistency of the design sequece for vehicles vs starships.
>
>What about the task system of MMT4 do you not like?  I find the device by
>which Marc managed to keep d6 while increasing the resolution of the
>process interesting.  I'm told that it is similar to GURPS, having been
>blessed enough to avoid it, I wouldn't know.
>
Well, there is a reason I don't play GURPS... ;-)

Actually, in a 6 month campaign, I found that the following problems occured:

1) Players hated 1/2d
2) Crit fail was right but success chances were too high
3) after applying difficulty fix, chances were too huigh for both success
and crit-fail.
4) Tasks do not have any time components (even specificed times to atempt)
that I could find in the rules (Had this problem with TNE, too)
5) Stats became more imoportant than skill, and easier to acquire.

on a side note, I find the experience system to be annoying, inconsistent
with CGen, and not to my player-group's liking. THey also bitched loudly
about TNE's.

Just for reference, I don't like gurps because difficulties are expressed
soley as modifiers to target number, and all tasks are on 3d vs asset.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:00:08 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek

You replied:

<<Try not to wince at things like the episode where they take off from
earth in their single seater "fighters" to rendezvous with the carrier
somewhere near Jupiter (figure out the kind of velocities they have to
hit to do this!). Then they hide in the Tojan Asteroids (from which
they can see jupter!?). And then they attack enemy fighters that are
moving towards earth (when the relative velocities should be 100s of
km/sec). And the fights are in *visual* range at velocities such that
they can make multiple firing passes? >>

I know- technically, it really really sucks.

<<Sorry, but that one episode made me give up on *that* show.>>

*But* I watch B5 for the realism and plotline, and '*that*' show for fun!
It doesn't seem to take itself too seriously, and is harmless enough fun. I
can see your point of view - but it's nicely placed in the UK at 11.15pm
ish, just after the pubs start closing! ;-)

Anyway, it doesn't annoy me as much as Trek does (arghh! heresy!).

    -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"But everything is still the same; passing the time, passing the blame.
We carry on in the same old way, we'll find out we left it too late one day,
 to say what we meant to say." - Marillion
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 97 21:26:01 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDDDDDDDDDDDD.D Voting

|\___/|
| | | |
| |C| |  Custom
| |B| |  Built
\ |W| /  Wreckage, Inc
 \| |/   
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
MEMORANDUM FOR:  TML

SUBJECT:  THUDDD Voting

>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:54:19 -0600
>From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
>Subject: [TML] THUDDD 10 month Vote List
>
>ATTENTION***ATTENTION
>
>Get your votes in soon.
>
>I only have five votes so far and the top five suggestions are:
>
>1.  Far Trader (obviously)
>2.  Free Trader
>3.  Mercenary Cruiser (Happy Fun Ball)
>4.  Patrol Cruiser
>5.  Yacht
>
>So, if your favorite isn't in the top 5 (or even if it is) send in your
>vote, let your voice be heard.
>

The Board of Directors for Custom Built Wreckage, Inc. has met and decided
to cast their votes for the following 5 designs, in this order of
preference:

	1.	Far Trader
	2.	Free Trader
	3.	Scout/Courier
	4.	Merc Cruiser (Happy Fun Ball, Basketball o' Death, Sphere o' Doom, etc)
	5.	Patrol Cruiser



									<Signed>
									Grabow M. X. Freem
									El Presidente and CEO
									CBW Enterprises, Inc

- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:19:16 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

At 11:34 AM 2/13/97 -0600, Mike Lee wrote:

>        Hypothetical situation: two ships are engaged in combat in a
>planetary system.  Finally, one of the vessels receives enough damage that
>they decide to withdraw and lick their wounds.  Now, within the context of
>the T4 rules, is it possible for a ship to orient itself on a course
>outsystem, then engage its jump drive for only a second or so, essentially
>causing a "micro-jump" that will drop the ship out of jumpspace well outside
>the system where it can make repairs.  Later, the ship can reorient on the
>system and jump back in.

You can jump from a dead stop.  Your real-space course has nothin gto do
with your course through jump.

As for the micro jump, it's going to take 168 hours, more or less.  There is
no known way around that.  You could concievably set for a jump of zero
distance and just disappear for a week, returning to the exact spot you
left, with one week to repair everything inside your ship.




- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:58:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Cargo costs...

There has been some discussion on the list about the cost of shipping 
cargo, and how 1000Cr is not enough to make a free trader financially 
viable.

Well,it occured to me that our free trader designs are NOT just competing 
with each other, they are probably competing with 20000 ton bulk 
freighters, which probably have a much lower cost per ton of cargo ratio.

I'f I'm trying to ship some widgets from Sylea to some other plant, I'm 
not going to pay more to have my cargo shipped via a far trader, I'm 
going to go the cheapest route possible.

The same thing happens in modern day shipping. There is no way a small 20 
foot shipping boat could ever hope to make money shipping crude oil and 
competing with the giant oil tankers. There are probably similar 
economies of scale working in the trucking and rail industries.

I don't know if this is canon or not, but I would hereby suggest that most 
cargo shipping in the imperium is NOT by small 200 ton free or far 
traders. This forces anyone operating such a small vessel to either 
engage in speculative trading, or to try and get hired for "special" 
cargoes aka adventures!

Any thoughts? Would anyone like to try and devise a 5000 ton bulk 
freighter and determine if the cost per ton  of cargo is actually lower 
(I'll give it a try this weekend if no one else does).

K.C. Komosky
umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 20:35:44 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

>        Hypothetical situation: two ships are engaged in combat in a
>planetary system.  Finally, one of the vessels receives enough damage that
>they decide to withdraw and lick their wounds.  Now, within the context of
>the T4 rules, is it possible for a ship to orient itself on a course
>outsystem, then engage its jump drive for only a second or so, essentially
>causing a "micro-jump" that will drop the ship out of jumpspace well outside
>the system where it can make repairs.  Later, the ship can reorient on the
>system and jump back in.
>        Can this be done?  As near as I can tell there are no rules that say
>this is impossible, and from what I've read about the theory of jump drives,
>it seems like it could work.  Are there any inherent limitations or risks to
>this procedure that makes it impossible?  I would appreciate any help or
>insight you guys can give.

Unless I misunderstood you, you ask 2 questions: 1. Is possible to enter 
jumpspace for "only a second or so" and 2. Is it possible to jump just 
outside the system in order to repair and jump back later. Short answers: 
1. No; 2. Yes.

According to canon, it is possible to jump "just outside the system". It 
is a "Jump-0" and takes as much fuel as a Jump-1 (10% of hull volume). 
However, Entering jumpspace *always* takes about 1 week (168 hours +/- 
10%, iirc). So, your hypothetical detour to lick them wounds would take 2 
weeks (jump out, jump in) and 20% of your ship's hull volume in fuel.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:54:06 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: ISBA Membership

Press Release from ISBA 

Today in an amazing statenment Josphanoer Cailfor the project coordinator
 for the ISBA,  sayed that ISBA is agian taking membership applications.  
He went on to state that the speed of ISBA techs at handling most
 of the problems shocked even the ISBA founders, and hopes to
 keep them on staff.  Also he said that the first Formal Dinner for 
the whole ISBA will be held shortly but refused to give a time or
 place do to security threats.  We hope to be reciving the RSVP very
 shortly for the Dinner / conferance.  If all goes well then the ISBA will no
 longer be an  association in name only.

***Role Playing off****

Ok first we would like to give a very big thanks to SuzD for helping 
me to solve my mailing problems with out her we would have been about 
three days behind our  plans.  So thank you Den Mother : ).

Second to those of you who joined we  sent out an email to you last 
night If you did not get the dinner invit please email me. We know a 
few of you did not but stupid me trashed the bad returns so I  dont 
have your names.

Shortly based on the invites ISBA's publishing arm will give a list 
of members and contacted people ass that is still being complied at 
this time. We want to say thanks for all the TML support for the 
ISBA, and trust us  ISBA will not disapear off the list but just 
become more organized and take up less ban width.We think this 
should please most people.

Lastly,we  got  some mail from Paul and yes ISBA well host suppose 
THUDD and help it an anyway , justwe were  not sure Paul wanted this.
We have not worked out any details but we want Paul and the others to 
still run THUDD. 

Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net

CmdrX
cmdrx@magicnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:24:13 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD

This is a strictly freight hauling version:

YugoBox J2 Far Trader (QSDS 1.5)

Tons: 200 Std (Box S)  Volume: 2800 m^3           Cost: 57.8 MCr
Crew: 2                High/Mid Pass: 0/2         Low: 0
Cargo: 115.5 Std       Controls: Std Civ.         TL: 12

8 Size                 2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                       1 Maneuver (Thruster)
                       1.3 Power Plant (10+20+100 MW)
                       41 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 3)
                       A1 P3 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                       0 Armor, 6 Structure

Crew Detail: Max Crew:4 (1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer, 1 Sensor)
             Typical: 2 (1 Pilot/Navigator 1 Engineering/Electronics)

This is about as cheap a 200dt ship as you can make in QSDS at TL 12 (I've
designed this ship from scratch so many times I can do it in my sleep). I
suspect that Roderick's CDB-2 is seriously broken (beyond the TL-9
controls running the TL-12 equipment) For one thing he's missing some huge
drain of power, somewhere, because his thruster plates take almost 60 MW
of power themselves, And the QSDS hull requires 55 MW (which includes all
the life support, inertial compensators, beer refrigerators, etc.) Either
that or there a SERIOUS inequities between SSDS and QSDS.
 
Secondly, under the QSDS rules at least, the Box S hull has the highest
amount of free space available. He's added 11 more small staterooms than
I've got (22 dT) PLUS a 5 dT lounge! And he STILL has 105 dT free??? And
he's CHEAPER by 5 MCr??? This can't be, not if he's using SSDS to design
the ships, because QSDS should let you build a cheaper ship than SSDS

His numbers don't add up. A quick build of the CDB-2 at TL 12 in QSDS
leaves less than 95 dT free cargo space. 

Here's my take on YugoBox economics:
		
Total cost:	57.8 MCr
Down Payment:	11.56 MCr		
			
Monthly Mortgage:	0.241 MCr		
Crew Salaries (2)	0.009		
Life support		0.004		
ann maintenance		0.005		
Fuel              	0         that's why we have scoops! (even though,
at 3 dT/hour it'll take over 13 hours to purify a full fuel load...not
exactly quick getaway time!)	
			
Total monthly     	0.259 mCr	
			
Cargo             	0.231  mCr/month
(2 trips / month 115.5 dT cargo, 1000Cr/dT)
Passengers              0.040 mCr/month
(2 trips/month 2 mid passengers each time, though this would be a rather
'roughing it' approach to star travel)

You can't break even. Not with just freight! With a full load of
passengers each trip, you only make about 10,000 credits profit a trip.
This wouldn't be economical at all, unless you could absolutely be sure of
filling your hold and spare staterooms each and every run.

If you just haul freight, with  a standard crew, or even a skeleton crew,
you're going to go broke.

One thing I think we should consider doing, is include the worksheet we
use to figure this stuff up, maybe then we can see where these things are
going wrong (or right as the case may be)

here's mine hot off the spreadsheet:

Description			Vol	Power	Cost	Area	Crew	
				dT	MW	MCr	m^2
hull 200 dt box s		190.6	54.7	8.5	924		
jump 2 drive			6		25.2	28	0.2
jump fuel			40					
Maneuver tl 12 thrust		4	56	14	12	0.1
std civ tl12 controls		1.7	1.3	9.2	0.3		
basic tl 12 sensors		0.3	11.1	6.8	12.4	0.4
basic tl 12 commo		0	1.3	0.2	11	0.4
fuel purif 3 t/hr		7	1.5	0			
4 small staterooms		8	0.002	0.16			
4 workstations			2		0.008			
Power needed				(126)				
Power Provided			4.7	130	13		0.1
100, 20, 10 Mw modules							
fuel for Powerplants 		1.4				

Free cargo			115.5 dT				
total cost			77.068 MCr		
with qsds discount		57.801 MCr	

	And Vladimir adds: " If any one can beat this price they're either
lyin' cheats or some of those $@#!@# ISBA gangsters with stolen parts in
their inventory!" ;-)

	It's fascinating, though, to watch the progress of error catching
in QSDS...the very first YugoBox design I posted had 140 dT of free cargo
and cost something like 27 mCr!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #948
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 14 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 949



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Long Day's Journey Part III
Alternate sensors rules (LONG)
[none]
Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
ARMORED STARSHIPS's

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:41:29 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Long Day's Journey Part III

INTRO: Here's the synopsis of the third in my ongoing Long Day's Journey...
campaign; as I've said before, it's a dirty job being the scum of the
spaceways, but somebody's got to do it.  However, as you will see my
players are rising admirably to the task :)


THE CAST:

Isaac Xyroli: a young, brash, and arrogant ex-Scout, currently working for
Ling Standard as pilot on the Frozen Glory, a FSY Mouffette-Rapide class
far courier.  Played by the TML's own Ross Coburn.

Leemcha Quo: Ascetic no-nonsense 35-year-old Asian/Vilani ex-Navy
Astrogator.  Cold, serious, no nonsense.  Played by a non-TMLer.

Dr. Ilbren Dinaskir: A Vilani archaeologist of humble origins, specializing
in the Rule-of-Man period, who rose to his present recently tenured
position due to his own brilliance and not to his humble origins on an
algae farm.  Played by TML'er Glenn Grant.

Lt. Jack 23: A strong, silent, dangerous type with "military" written all
over him; formerly a marine, now working for Ling Standard Security.  Has
manged to overcome his underprivileged youth as an orphan in a Solomani
Genetic Collective rather nicely.  Again, played by nobody you know.

Lt. Kyle Deschenko: A nice, genteel thug from one of the best of families.
Despite coming from a well-off family (SOC A), he nevertheless managed to
get sent to a military academy for his youthful misdeeds.  After a stint in
the Navy, he spent some time as a Rogue before getting hired by Ling.  Has
every weapon-related skill save Heavy Weapons.  Likewise, played by a
non-TMLer.


Episode 3: Hoist and Re-hoist!


Scene 1:

        The game picked up right where we left, on the tarmac on
Archipelago's spaceport, in the Frozen Glory.  Xyroli, Dr. Dinaskir, and
Lt. Duschenko are being interrogated by Archipelagan Agency police in
connection with the discovery of the Frozen Glory's engineer's corpse and
disappearance of their gunner.  This is an inconvenience, as they had
wished to depart that morning.  Xyroli, being somewhat disgruntled at his
treatment by Ling, gets pushed to far by an Agency cop and triggers the
anti-hijacking system.

        The anti-hijacking system, being one of Famille Spofulam Defense
Subsystem's latest models, ascertains that the situation on board has yet
to turn violent, that it is on the ground at a class B starport, and that
the only non-crew personnel on board have Imperial ID's stating that they
are planetary law enforcement personnel.  It immediately closes and locks
all iris valves and doorways, shuts down the power plant, deploys very
menacing-looking microturrets, warns all on board to freeze and not make
any hostile moves, and places comm alerts to spaceport security, Ling's HQ,
and Famille Spofulam's service rep.  It then advises Leemcha, alone in the
cockpit, of the situation.  Xyroli, down in the lounge, tries to convince
the anti-hijack subroutine to listen to him, but Leemcha, figuring that the
negotiations will proceed better with him out of the way, orders the
antihijack system to deploy knockout gas throughout the lower regions of
the ship.   She meanwhile enters the cockpit airlock, dons her vac suit,
and descends to the lounge.  She collects Xyroli, securely immobilizes him
with unidirectional bonding strip (well, TL-12 duct tape), dumps him in his
stateroom, Blurs him, and turns the gravity up to the maximum.

        Meanwhile, the antihijacking subroutine, having ascertained the
identity of the starport police, lets them in the lower airlock.  They
proceed to collect all the unconscious bodies and dump them on the tarmac
to recover.  Leemcha immediately calls the hospital where Lt. 23 has been
staying, and has him put on an ambulance for immediate delivery to the
ship.  The starport police and the Agency police engage in a lively
discussion of their respective jurisdictions.  Shortly thereafter, a squad
of Agency Environmental Emergency Intervention personnel arrive in
protective suits and start waving sensors around and taking air samples to
ascertain the environmental impact of venting the knockout gas.  Soon
thereafter Fanderbrees, a Ling executive, arrives, followed in short order
by Ling's corporate counsel and the Agency's Chief Counsel.  Then the four
security troops the Frozen Glory was to pick up, and that Xyroli wanted to
leave without, arrive, followed shortly by Lt. 23.  Everyone becomes
involved in a fascinating discussion of planetary police jurisdiction under
the Restoration Proclamation while the gassing victims come to.

        Meanwhile, back on board, Lt. Duschenko, who is guarding Xyroli,
and Xyroli discuss plans to essentially steal the ship (because Xyroli is
really disgruntled by now and Duschenko has never lost touch with his inner
criminal), and come up with a plan to extort the ship out of Ling in return
for withheld information on the Rule of Man site they are to excavate.
Leemcha is listening into all this via the intercom as she reboots the
fusion plant.

        While this is going on, the Yacht Messalina, an FSY Caligula-class
megayacht, arrives at the spaceport.  The crew of the Frozen Glory are not
pleased, as this means that the competition has arrived.

        Eventually, it is decided that the Agency police were out of their
jurisdiction.  Ling's counsel and the Agency's counsel hammer out a deal
wherein Ling will post a bond as to their eventual return and cooperation
in the murder investigation, thus obviating a potential diplomatic fuss.
The Frozen Glory departs, and Xyroli and Leemcha have a tense scene in the
cockpit (Xyroli being rather upset at her for blurring him, and she being
rather annoyed at Xyroli's general loose cannoninity).  She agrees,
however, in principle, to their plan subject to them not having to actually
harm anybody.

Scene 2: The double jump to Skrunge takes a morose two weeks; Lt. 23 is
annoyed at Xyroli and has told him to behave or be shot, the ship is
overcrowded by 100% of its normal complement, and everybody is in a bad
mood.  However, they emerge on time and on target near Skrunge (which, due
to its ice caps and permanent storms along the terminators and
near-desert-like conditions neard midday (recall it has a 920-hour day),
looks rather like a large, slit-pupilled eye from a distance.  From orbit,
they deploy two survey sats.  They quickly locate their site; from orbit a
500-meter wide plascrete landing pad returns one hell of an echo. The site
being located about 80 hours away from dusk (and about 60 from the
nightfall terminator storm) They proceed to land.

        The site itself is located next to a large, very eroded mesa.  From
the outside, it appears to consist of a 500-meter wide landing pad (covered
by about 75 cm of topsoil and vegetation, surrounded by four 10-meter wide
by 50-meter deep silos, and a large superdense door in the side of the
mesa.  They land, Dr. Dinaskir being the first out to claim Skrunge in the
name of Science and them Imperium.  The four security troops proceed to
verify the security of the immediate landing area, discovering a number of
rather ugly but otherwise harmless native life forms, which display an odd,
9-fold symmetry in their anatomy.  Initial exploration reveals the
interesting development of a small cairn of rocks beside each silo.
Further investigation of the cairns reveals TL-0 ropes, woven out of native
plant fibers, carefully stored between what appear to have been carapaces
formerly belonging to native life forms.  This is rather odd news, as
Skrunge is of course  uninhabited by humaniti, and no native life forms
were even close to intelligence.

        Descent (with Lt. 23 and Xyroli remaining on board) into one of the
silos reveals a large garbage midden at the bottom, and a wide corridor
leading towards the mesa.  Exploration of the corridor reveals some
partially functioning, proximity-activated lights, and the fact that the
corridors do indeed appear to have been inhabited; fireplaces abound, the
ceiling is thick with soot, and detritus, animal remains, broken TL-0
atifacts made of local animal life body parts, and fecal pellets abound.
They also notice very crude glyphs, daubed with mud, every 10 meters or so
along the walls, which they interpret as territorial markers. They also
note that the glyphs are rather high up on the walls (about 1.8 meters from
the floor), and that they appear to have been traced by manipulative
members that sport rather prominent claws or nails.  At this point, fatigue
begins to overtake them, and they return to the ship for a rest period, as
they encountered superdense doors at the end of the corridor.


Scene 3: Their rest period over, and feeling strangely jetlagged because
their circadian rythms are totally out of synch with Skrunge's long day,
they arise and continue their explorations, with Lt. Duschenko spending the
morning coding a virus to be uploaded to their surveysats that will totally
bugger up the antihijack systems (which are also Famille Spofulam products)
on the Messalina by resetting all the crew identification records, thereby
having the antihijacking system turn upon the hapless vessel's crew (they'd
hatched this cunning plan, you see, involving salvaging it, the evil little
so & so's...).  Meanwhile, Dr. Dinaskir and Leemcha, along with the Ling
security troops, have taken to further exploration of the corridors
connecting the silos.  This investigation reveals much the same evidence of
TL-0 inhabitation as the first corridor.  That afternoon they return with
laser cutters and start work on the doors at the end of the corridor.

        However, they are interrupted by the arrival insystem, about a week
earlier than expected, of the Messalina (which apparently had been
retrofitted to J-3 at some point).  The owner of the Messalina, Dame Sisao
hault Joostens, is bearing an Imperial Edict declaring the Skrunge system
to be a Red Zone, and orders them offplanet within an hour.

        The crew are highly annoyed.  Xyroli, in order to gain the others
time, takes off at 8 G's and goes messing around, being recalcitrant and
stalling as hard as he can (and routing his communications through the
surveysats in order to draw the Messalina's attention to them in the hopes
it will download Lt. Duschenko's virus).  However, the Messalina's sensors
detect the neutrino emissions from the air raft's power plant and the grav
signature of Leemcha's vacc suit's grav module, and under threats of
extremely dire Imperial legal nastiness, Xyroli is compelled to return to
the site by Lt. 23.

        Meanwhile, underground, Dr. Dinaskir, Lemmcha, and Lt. Duschenko
have cut through the door, revealing a huge cavern apparently hollowed out
by a nuclear explosion.  At the center of the cavern is a large dome,
surrounded by four L-shaped buildings, and some roadways.  They barely have
time to ascertain that the dome is sealed, and that the outbuildings have
been stripped of everything down to the light fixtures, before they have to
return to the ship, more or less at gunpoint (the Messalina sent a platoon
of troops after them).  Despondent (but rather hopeful for their virus),
the Frozen Glory departs to refuel at the system's gas giant.

        However, some days later, as they are exiting the gas giant's
atmosphere with full tanks, they recieve a brief, garbled distress call
from the Messalina, replete with screams, banging, more screams, some
thuds, an odd chittering noise, and what appears to be something bashing in
the comm panel with a blunt object...  and I called the session there.

        We'll resume next week.  Stay tuned.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:24:00 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Alternate sensors rules (LONG)

Please ask any questions about this system as I'm shure there will be some.
Here we go:

Intercept
=========

Backmans double blind sensorrules
============================================================================
This document is a very much simplified part of my Traveller space combat rules
system. It can be used by any reasonably detailed design system with some work.
I have skipped on my gravity rules, rules for stable orbits, to hit, damage,
aerobrake et c because they are too designsystem specific and frankly to hard
to explain without pictures.

Here's a short example of what is possible with this system:
The players wants to sneak onto Victoria without the interdiction satellites
detecting them. The GM runs the satellites and the by the players unknown
Survey cruiser. The players succeed in exiting jumpspace inside Victorias
planetary shadow and they stay with PP on idle, popup antennas popped down and
floorfield off for minimal sig. They wait until Victorias moon Albert passes
around and when 3 of the interdiction sats are blocked by Albert they fire up
the PP, thrusts a little and continues gliding towards victoria. They aerobrake
in Victorias atmosphere as they swing onto the sunside of victoria, ready for
landing. Before entering the atmosphere for good they dare a quick popup of
their PEMS but see nothing. No combat, no deaths but still a pretty exciting
session.

Conventions
===========
Dice
Only D6 dice are used throughout and I have some special rules for making it
possible to succeed at rolling 13+ and also to fail a 2+ roll on 2D6.
I will denote all rolls that are possible to increase/decrease with a capital D.
If the maximum of the die roll was rolled, roll 1D6, if 5+ add 1 to result and
continue rolling this 1D6 until the 5+ roll fails.
Rolling low is basically the same. Roll 2 on 2D6, then roll 1D6 for 2- and
continue until failure. Each 2- roll lowers the score by 1.

Logarithms
I use logarithmic values all the time in my rules but in these rules only one
logarithmic scale is needed. The scale goes like this:

Value   Log(Value)
0.5+    -4
1.5+    -3
5+      -2
15+     -1
50+     0
150+    1
500+    2
1500+   3 et c
Remember when dealing with logs that adds of logs are equivalent to multiplies
and subtractions to divisions, +2 equals multiply by 10 and -2 divide by 10 in
this scale. Ranges follow the same progression:
1.5 squares, 5 squares, 15 squares, 50 squares et c.
This logscale is used throughout but with different base values. The one above
has a base value of 50 which means that 50 equals 0.

Facings and grid
================
I use a square grid myself for all maps be it space combat, brawls et c and I
always use the same facing sectors to divide the plane into 8 similarly sized
sectors. Those using hexgrids can use six sectors but some of the rules
regarding blind and semiblind sectors might not work in that case.
When calculating range for all purposes treat all diagonals as 1.5 squares and
round the final range down. OK the facing sectors look like this:
Mark your own location, the first square away from it N, E, W or S is 1 wide,
squares 2 to 3 away are 3 wide, squares 4, 5 and 6 are 5 wide like this:

                  x x x
              x x x x x
        x x x x x x x x
    x x x x x x x x x x
o x x x x x x x x x x x
    x x x x x x x x x x
        x x x x x x x x
              x x x x x
                  x x x
o
  x
    x x
    x x x x x
      x x x x x x
      x x x x x x x x x
      x x x x x x x x x
        x x x x x x x x
        x x x x x x x x
          x x x x x x x
          x x x x x x x
          x x x x x x x

Or put it another way: Go one right, one right and one up, two right and one
up, three right and one up, two right and one up. Alternate between two and
three for each step to get it done. If this is hard to follow then use whatever
sectors you like as long as they are 8 more or less equally sized arcwise. I
have printed these sectors on overhead film but I rarely use them as I know the
progression by heart.

My game has MUCH smaller scale to space combat, sensor ranges et c because I
want to hide behind planetary shadows, aerobrake in atmospheres while fighting
et c but these rules work with any size squares as long as one sticks to them.
My squares are 1000 km wide which gives you gameturns of aproximately 5 minutes
and a thrust vector of 1G is 1 square.

When calculating ranges on a square grid count each diagonal square as 1.5 and
round down whendone tracing range. This is surprisingly close to pythagoras
the expected value.

Needed shipstats
================
There are some statistics that are required for each target and should be
precomputed when designing the ship/missile/whatever. Notice that certain
signatures only are detectable if certain things are in use, others vary
depending on the level of activity of said device. I normally calculate sigs
for full use and off but one could calculate powerplant sigs for 100% power and
10% idle for instance (10% is imply -2 from full due to the logarithmic
scale). I use four different signatures for each target, the signatures
are: Active EMS
or AEMS, Passive EMS or PEMS, Neutrino and Mass.

AEMS: Use surface area/6 or volume^(2/3) if there's no radar area in the
design system used. Targets with stealth material surface should have their area
severely diminished, perhaps by x0.1, x0.01 or even x0.001
Base value for radar is 50 m2 or
Area(m2)        AEMS-signature
15+             -1
50+             0
150+            1
500+            2
1500+           3 et c

PEMS: Passive EMS get their readings from IR venting from Powerplants,
reflected light from star(s), rocket plume from reactionthrusters.
Power(MW)       PEMS-signature
15+             -1
50+             0
150+            1
500+            2
1500+           3 et c

Area(m2)        PEMS-signature
50+             -4
150+            -3
500+            -2
1500+           -1
5000+           0
15000+          1
50000+          2
150000+         3
The light from star(s) is added later in the system, therefore the low sig
here. This sig is the ships reflected sig if in planetary shadow. Stealth
material hulls and black hulls should perhaps modify this by -2.

Thrust(ton)     PEMS-signature (my system uses different values for diff. types)
0.015           -1
0.05            0
0.15            1
0.5             2
1.5             3
5               4
15              5
50              6
150             7
500             8
1500            9
5000            10
15000           11 et c

Neutrino: Neutrino sensor is definately the most important sensor in Travller
both because it can be mounted under the armor and because it is so hard
to shield neutrinos and everybody uses fusion powerplants. Neutrinos come from
fission/fusion powerplants and fission/fusion thrusters.
Power(MW)       NEUT-signature
15+             -1
50+             0
150+            1
500+            2
1500+           3 et c
Notice that for fusion/fission plants the neutrino sig is the same as the
PEMS-sig for powerplants. Makes the rules a bit easier to use.

Thrust(ton)     NEUT-signature
15+             -1
50+             0
150+            1
500+            2
1500+           3 et c
Notice that for fusion/fission thrusters the neutrino sig is the same as the
PEMS-sig for thrusters - 6. Makes the rules a bit easier to use.

Mass: Mass is hard to cloak and an important signature in my Traveller,
especially if the targets use antigravity/thrusterplates or floorfield/inertial
compensators. Note that because of some technobabble my gravscanner sensors has
to be mounted outside of the hull just like AEMS and PEMS.
Mass(ton)       MASS-signature
150+            -1
500+            0
1500+           1
5000+           2
15000+          3 et c

Thrust(ton)     MASS-signature
15+             -1
50+             0
150+            1
500+            2
1500+           3 et c
Notice that mass sig for antigrav/thrusterplates is the same as the
PEMS-sig for thrusters. Makes the rules a bit easier to use.

Volume(m3)      MASS-signature
15+             -1
50+             0
150+            1
500+            2
1500+           3 et c
This is the mass signature from floorfield/inertial compensators. It is based
on the volume compensated.

Example:
The scoutship in TNE is 1400 m3 which gives a surface of ca 125 m2. It masses
685 tons loaded. The powerplant is a 138 MW fusion plant and it has a HEPLAR
drive with ca 1370 tons thrust. Lets say it is inertially comped. and living
area is 500 m3 in size. Lets rate this ship:
AEMS:   0
PEMS:   0 Power         -4 Reflected    8 Thrust
NEUT:   0 Power
MASS:   0 Mass          2 Antigrav      2 Inertial compensators


Rating sensors
==============
There are four different types of sensors in my campaign namely:
Active EMS, Passive EMS, Neutrino and Mass detectors. I use my own design
system so those converting from FF&S can use the guidelines to below to rate
their sensors.

AEMS
Range(squares)  Factor
1-              -8
5-              -4
15-             0
50-             4
150-            8
500-           12 et c

PEMS, NEUT and MASS
Range(squares)  Factor
1-              -4
5-              -2
15-             0
50-             2
150-            4
500-            6 et c

Rating HighGuard designs: There are no sensors in HG so a quick and dirty
ruling has to be made regarding that. Give each ship AEMS and PEMS ratings of
computer model nbr - 6. Add size figure from USP for this (if size is less than
1 use -1 if 10dTon or more, -2 if not). The sensors are assumed to be included
in the computer price and the bonus for size is the larger surface area for
antennas. Give large military vessels NEUT and MASS sensors with factors 2 less
than AEMS/PEMS. Large scouts have NEUT and MASS with without reduction and
merchants never have anything but AEMS/PEMS (well, maybe Leviathan could find
uses for a weak NEUT sensor for detecting fusion plants).

Example: The scout in TNE has a 5 hex PEMS, 10 hex AEMS. The densitometer and
neutrinodetector I have no idea what their ranges are so I will not rate them.
AEMS:   -2
PEMS:   0

Sequence of play
================
Drift
Movement
Sensors
Combat

Drift
=====
Move all ships according to their vector and adjust for gravity effects. Note
that ships with antigrav units should be able to choose wether gravity affects
them or not (shouldn't they?). Use Mayday or Battle Rider movement or even BL
if you can stand the ugly system (borrowed from SPI DeltaVee I think).

I plot my ships moves on a graph paper with 5 mm squares and simply mark an x
where the ship should be if it didn't thrust.

For gravity effects I calculate several gravity bands by calculating:
R = 6.4xSQRT(M/A) where M is planet mass and A=0.25 for the limit of 0.5G,
A=0.75 for the limit of 1G, A=1.5 for the limit of 2G et c. When a ships
previous location is within a
gravity band move his drifted location by the amount and direction for the
previous location. 0.5 G only produce a 1G gravity vector on even turns.
My gravthrusters/contragrav has thrust egual to designed thrust times local
gravity so orbital fighters with contragrav can zoom close to planets and
really get a boost from the planets gravity field.

Movement
========
All tracked targets move first. The order within this group is determined with
a Pilot task roll, highest goes last.
All untracked targets plot their movement secretly.

Sensors
=======
Each player plots where his sensors will look for targets secretly or a
competitive Task roll with Fleet tactics decides. Highest result goes last as
this is advantageous. Sensorscans is basically performed by choosing a square
called the scanpoint away from your ship, modifying the sensors factor for the
range to the scanpoint, choosing one of two possible radii around the scanpoint
and modify factor accordingly.
Tell the opponent the sensor type (AEMS, PEMS, NEUT or MASS),factor, scanpoint
and radius. The opponent checks if any of his ships/missiles are within the
radius and if so; adds the sensors factor to all of his relevant sigs and sees
if any of these sigs sums is 0 or higher.

There are two sizes; small or normal.
Normal: Radius is the range to the scanpoint - 1.
Small: Radius is the range to the scanpoint divided by 2.
It is entirely legal for players to use smaller radii than those allowed in
order to fool the opponent about the range between sensing ship and scanpoint.
All squares within the scanned area has to be visible to the scanning ship to
be legal, move scanpoint or reduce radius if not. This is the single most
common error my players do when playing this system so be careful.

Modifications to sensorfactor
The sensorfactor is modified by three different circumstances:

Range to scanpoint affects the factor differently for passive and active
sensors:
Range(squares)  Passive Active
1-              +4      +8
5-              +2      +4
15-             0       0
50-             -2      -4
150-            -4      -8

Small or normal sensorscan
Pin*    +6
Small   +2
Normal  +0
*Pin is when you scan in such a tight beam so that only one square is searched.
When tracking an enemy with lock on at the limits of your sensors range it is
easy to use Pin as they have to tell you where they'll go before you decide on
where to put your scancenters.

Skill level of the sensoroperator (optional)
Roll a task in whatever task system used:
(these modifiers are set to discourage using this task unless highly skilled)
Result                          Modifier
Exceptional success             +2
Success                         0
Failure                         -2
Exceptional failure             -4

Sunfactor (optional but really fun to use)
==========================================
The sun or suns affect sensors and add some interesting tactical complications
to space combat. The direction to the sun is important because sensorscans in
that direction are harder for obvious reasons. The sun also affects a targets
reflective signature making it easier to detect if illuminated by the sun(s).
If the system consists of one star choose a direction where the sun lies (I
always use North as sundirection for ease of play). Close binaries will
probably be in the same direction and far binaries will have only one of the
stars giving off signinficant light.
To calculate the sunfactor from a particular star use this formula, treat
negative results as 0 because I choose background illumination to be 0:
S = 2*log10(L/R^2) + 6
S = sunfactor, L = starts luminosity, R = distance to star in AU
If you're lazy (or in a hurry) you can use 6 + orbit number distance from
hospitable, + for inner system and - for outer system. The result will be more
or less the same as you can see below for the solar system:

Planet          SF
==============
Mercury         8
Venus           7
Earth           6
Mars            5
Asteroids       4
Jupiter         3 etc

A ships reflective PEMS sig is actually the one rated above plus SF if
illuminated by the star. If more than one star is illuminating, add the highest
SF (remember these are logarithms, adds are really multiplies).
The scout if in earthorbit and not in planetary shadow will have a reflective
PEMS sig of -4 +6 = +2.

Scanpoints has to be at least 45 degrees from the suns direction if small and
at least 90 degrees if normal to not be affected by sunfactor. Those closer
than these angles subtract the sunfactor from scanfactor if the scanning ship
isn't in planetary shadow. Note that NEUT sensors are never in planetary
shadow, those solar neutrinos will pass through planets like nothing. Note also
that MASS sensors never need to worry about the solar direction but neither can
they scan through planets like the NEUT ones.

Example: The aforementioned scout chooses a square 17 squares away in
coordinates x-18 y-45. He uses a normal scan and his PEMS has a factor of 0.
He rolls a sucess at the sensor task. His factor is:
0(original) -2(range) +0(success) = -2
The radius is 16 (17-1)
He tells the other player "OK I put a PEMS scan at 18 45, factor -2 radius 16
If the opponent has anything within 16 squares from 18,45 and they have any
PEMS sig of +2 or higher he has to respond.

Detection
=========
Sum the scan factor with your sig and if 0 or higher consult the chart below.
You must tell the player all sigs that are 0 or better.

Scanfactor + Sig:
0-1: Indicated;  tell location but not vector, tell highest sig for that sensor
but not targettype.
2-3: Detected;  tell location and vector, tell highest sig for that sensor but
not targettype.
4+: Locked;  tell location and vector, tell all indicated+ sigs for that sensor
and targettype.It will remain locked until no sensor from this ship has it
Indicated or better for a round.

Combat
======
a: Beam weapons attack and implement damage.
b: Surviving missiles hit and implement damage.
Within each subphase first fire is determined by a shiptactics task roll and
damage effects are inflicted before the next ship may fire.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:34:29 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: [none]

>What we hope to do is bring role playing to the starship creation
>process by taking on the role of companies that produce ships.  There
(SNIP)
>rest of us.  As time goes on I want to change this into a PBeM
>campaign.  If you are interested in the idea please drop me a line at

        OK, I'm game.

        <FLASH>PRESS RELEASE<FLASH>

        Massilia News Network
        Arar (Massilia 1104), 0001.004

        Amahrt Burkinshaw, spokesperson for the Traianus Corporation,
announced today that this growing company has decided to join the recently
created Imperium Ship Builders' Association.
        "Traianus Corporation - Mr. Burkinshaw stated - is wishing to
collaborate in extending the benefits of standardization and professionalism
to the whole Massilia sector.
        This statement was followed by an angered response by Kradee Thern,
commercial adjoint to the Geonee embassy in Arar and representative of the
Geonee shareholders which hold 7% of the participations of Traianus
Corporation. Mr. Thern stated that the directives of Traianus Corporation
had acted against the shareholders interests by joining the ISBA, and called
for a General Assembly. "Traianus Corporation - he said - is not by any
means a Sylean company, and thus to have it joining a Sylean, or Imperial,
or whatever, association, is just nonsense".
        Traianus Corporation owns extensive shipyards at Arar - whose
starport was upgraded to type A with Imperial economic support ten years
ago, but also maintains operations at both Imperial and non-Imperial worlds
in Arar, Vaait and Shiwonee subsectors, among others. The property of the
company is heavily distributed among noble families, individual worlds,
banks, and other corporations, being the Traianus Family the greatest
shareholder with a 24%.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 09:52:39 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
> You are correct, the table that Greg Porter sent with the message titled
> "Greasy Tidbits.." is
> 
> I think in starship terms, penetrations would convert to USP as follows:
> 
> Pen		USP
> 0-16		0-0-0-0
> 17-20		1-0-0-0
> 21-25		2-0-0-0
> 26-29		3-0-0-0

The above is reasonable; the exact Pens for USP 0, 1, 2, and 3
are 13, 16, 21, and 26, respectively.

> Going beyond this but following the progression is
> Pen           USP
> 30-35         4-0-0-0
> 36-40         5-0-0-0 
> and so on.

This linear extrapolation is NOT reasonable!
For example, your table would set a Pen of 55 to about 8, right?
The correct USP for a Pen of 55 is around 11, and neither your
table or your suggested conversion (Pen/10) even come close.

Both PEN and USP exponential progressions; but on different scales;
there's unfortunately not a linear relationship between them.
I gave a conversion chart between the various armor values in
a recent Traveller Answer post.

> A pen of 135 well it off the scale for right now.

A Pen of 135 is probably impossible for a ship-mounted weapon.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:58:26 -0800
From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
Subject: ARMORED STARSHIPS's

I have been going through the Starships handbook with SSDS.  I was
finished with the design sequence and went to step 15.  There I'm
supposed to convert all data from design into the wonderful USP codes
and such.  Well I ran into a small snag with this last step.  

The problem is with ARMOR.  On step 15 it mentions: place the armor
value chosen here.  Well in the rest of the sequence ARMOR isn't
mentioned. However on the worksheet there is a field for armor mass and
volume.  

My question is how do you assign armor to a Starship.  Also, how much
mass and volume is taken up per level of ARMOR?  

If anyone could help out a poor naval architect I'd appreciate it.

PS.  Does anyone know if the EMPEROR'S ARSENAL will include the design
sequence for weapons (And if so for what types).  


Thanks,
Brad Urwiller

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #949
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 14 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 950



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

fuel use in microjumps?
Re: Controls&Costs
Re: ISBA Membership
Re: ping?
Test 1,2,3
Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
END & combat:  melee v. ranged
RE: Life and the List
Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS
The color of J-space (and other curiosities)
Re: Crew Size for CDB-1
Cargo costs...
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD
Re: YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD
Re: Crew Size for CDB-1
Re: Crew Size for CDB-1
Re: Long Day's Journey Part III
YugoBox Deckplans!!!
The THUDD-contest spesific
t4 npc generator

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 18:06 GMT
From: walker@esc.cam.ac.uk (Greg Walker)
Subject: fuel use in microjumps?

how much fuel is used in the microjump? The normal fuel/distance implies practically zero as I understand it.
No, I don't want to reopen the debate on what the fuel is used for.
G

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:07:52 -0600
From: bill fegley <961fegley@alpha.nlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Controls&Costs

please remove me from your mailing list, i believe i have been added by 
mistake, thank you.
bill fegley.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:59:27 -0600
From: bill fegley <961fegley@alpha.nlu.edu>
Subject: Re: ISBA Membership

please remove me from this echo, i believe that i have been added 
accidentally, thank you.
bill fegley.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:09:47 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: ping?

On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, JEFF ZEITLIN wrote:

>=20
> Two days in a row, now, I haven't seen _any_ TML - has something
> gone kaflooey?
>=20
> If the list is still going out, and a subscriber or Rob sees
> this, pong me by email...
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.co=
m
> ---
>  =FE OLXWin 1.00b =FE "She's a witch!  Burn her!"
>=20
>=20
>=20

I can see you message so the list isn't down although I haven't gotten
any messages from it in 16 hours. Might be a problem with the subscriber
list?

Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:53:41 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Test 1,2,3

This a test only.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:00:41 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

At 09:52 AM 2/14/97 -0500, Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:
>"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
>> You are correct, the table that Greg Porter sent with the message titled
>> "Greasy Tidbits.." is
>> 
>> I think in starship terms, penetrations would convert to USP as follows:
>> 
>> Pen		USP
>> 0-16		0-0-0-0
>> 17-20		1-0-0-0
>> 21-25		2-0-0-0
>> 26-29		3-0-0-0
>
>The above is reasonable; the exact Pens for USP 0, 1, 2, and 3
>are 13, 16, 21, and 26, respectively.
>
>> Going beyond this but following the progression is
>> Pen           USP
>> 30-35         4-0-0-0
>> 36-40         5-0-0-0 
>> and so on.
>
>This linear extrapolation is NOT reasonable!
>For example, your table would set a Pen of 55 to about 8, right?
>The correct USP for a Pen of 55 is around 11, and neither your
>table or your suggested conversion (Pen/10) even come close.
>

I did not say it was going to accurate did I? It was a guess.

>Both PEN and USP exponential progressions; but on different scales;
>there's unfortunately not a linear relationship between them.
>I gave a conversion chart between the various armor values in
>a recent Traveller Answer post.
>

Ok could you send that to me I must have missed it then. But the way the
TML is acting that is not unlikely.

>> A pen of 135 well it off the scale for right now.
>
>A Pen of 135 is probably impossible for a ship-mounted weapon.
>

Yes you may be correct, but for nuclear blast of 100kt it is not. Using 3G3
you can design weapons that get to a pen of 135, but they are big and costly.


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 14:11:47 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
> I did not say it was going to accurate did I? It was a guess.

You really should check before you post to the TML.  That's what the
Beta list is for; the designers of CSC, SSDS, and QSDS are all on that 
list - and you're a Beta list member, too.

> Ok could you send that to me I must have missed it then.

Even better, I can give you the exact formula to convert from Pen to USD (as
Greg Porter pointed out in e-mail, the conversions I posted are correct for
the case of converting from USD to Pen, and not the other way around).

PenCM = (Pen / 6) ^ 3

Where "PenCM" is penetration expressed in centimeters (of armor steel), and
"Pen" is the CSC penetration of the weapon.

Then lookup PenCM on the table in the back of _Starships_ to find the USD.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:18:07 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: END & combat:  melee v. ranged

> From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [TML] MMT4 Tasks
> Date: Tuesday, February 11, 1997 2:33 PM

I gibbered earlier regarding T4 combat:
> > I like the new additions of the "pools" for combat, though a better
name
> > could have been found for them.  I do question the validity of adding a
> > point to your END pool for EVERY combat task, though.  I don't find
firing
> > a handgun, or even my shotguns, that tiring (and I seriously doubt that
my
> > own END is much above a 5 or 6).  I need to think about it further, but
> > I'll probably only add points to the END pool for melee attacks,
running,
> > etc.

Mused wondered, pharmacologically speaking:
> I believe the END cost for all tasks represent s adrenaline. Sure firing 
> a rifle is not very tiring, but having someone shoot back at you would 
> sure as hell be!

Stressful, yes, tiring, no.  Most folks who've been in combat that were
willing to discuss it (generally Vietnam era) made the observation that
they never noticed being tired, drained, or winded, until they had a moment
to pause...  Then the couldn't move for days...

Adrenaline, along with endorphins (I wish synthetics were legally
producible!), alleviate that tiredness rather quickly in a way that we only
wish caffeine could.  Think about that close call driving because you were
sleepy that woke you up for the rest of the trip!



david@techrefuge.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 22:52:24 UT
From: "Harry McGowan" <AL_THE_MAD@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Life and the List

1 vote for, that swing it :)

Alastair McGowan
Department of Archaeology, Psychology, and Astronomy
University of Glasgow
9608194m@student.gla.ac.uk
AL_THE_MAD@msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:26:19 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: hiwg - Re:  Prox Nukes For CSC/VDS

At 02:11 PM 2/14/97 -0500, Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:
>"sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
>> I did not say it was going to accurate did I? It was a guess.
>
>You really should check before you post to the TML.  That's what the
>Beta list is for; the designers of CSC, SSDS, and QSDS are all on that 
>list - and you're a Beta list member, too.
>

Well that may been the original intent of GDW-Beta List but lately it has
not been the excusive discussion area new thinges design ides et al.

>> Ok could you send that to me I must have missed it then.
>
>Even better, I can give you the exact formula to convert from Pen to USD (as
>Greg Porter pointed out in e-mail, the conversions I posted are correct for
>the case of converting from USD to Pen, and not the other way around).
>
>PenCM = (Pen / 6) ^ 3
>
>Where "PenCM" is penetration expressed in centimeters (of armor steel), and
>"Pen" is the CSC penetration of the weapon.
>
>Then lookup PenCM on the table in the back of _Starships_ to find the USD.
>
Well that may be ok, but I do not have "Starships" and have no intension on
buying it at all. Do any of the online versions of SSDS have the penCM table?

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:21:14 -0600
From: Jeff Schmidt <jschmidt@netco.com>
Subject: The color of J-space (and other curiosities)

Some time back Wildstar pontificated upon the general workings of
jumpdrives, and there was some discussion of jump signatures.  However, I'm
curious about other folks' ideas about the nature of jumping and J-space.
If anyone has online resources discussing this, I'd be interested in
knowing about it, and if not, I'd like to spark discussion with the
following questions:

1. It seems generally accepted that a ship creates a N-space bubble around
itself before and during a jump.  What, if anything, does such a thing look
like (visually or through other sensing methods)?  Do the crew notice any
differences when the bubble is formed?

2. The actual act of entering J-space involves a massive burst of energy.
What does an observer see when a ship enters J-space?  If a crewmember were
looking out a viewport, what would they see?  Does the event affect the
crew at all (sensations, etc.)?

3. Once in J-space, what, if anything, do crew looking out viewports see?
What sort of sensor readings does the ship get?

4. If energy or matter is introduced to the N-space-J-space boundary, what
happens?  Could this endanger the jumping ship?

5. If for some reason the N-space bubble drops while in J-space, what happens?

6. When a ship re-enters N-space, what do observers (on and off the ship)
see or feel?

7. Are the different races' and manufacturers' jumpdrives sufficiently
different to generate identifiable signatures for those who know what to
look for?

I have a few ideas about these myself, but there do not seem to be any
'canonical' answers that I've found.  I'd just like to see what other
'bullshitium' rationalizations are out there.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Schmidt                         | NetCo Communications Corporation
software engineer, Mac development   | 333 N. Washington Ave. Ste. 102
(612) 519-0878                       | Minneapolis MN 55401, USA
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:48:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Crew Size for CDB-1

Mark Clark wrote:

>   By the way, I noticed that some of the very small TL12 power plants are
> rated as using 0.0 crew.  I suppose one could reduce crew requirements by
> using a whole bunch of these instead of one big power plant - I just get
> the picture of a ship with a whole bunch of portable generators wired in
> series.

Yeah.  For example, take a 2000 MW need.  You can go with either, 
  A)  one hundred 20 MW plants, at zero crew
  B)  ten 200 MW plants, at two crew
  C)  one 2000 MW plant, at 1.7 crew.

While most of the time this is discouraged by the rounding "errors" which
result in bigger, pricier plants at the bottom of the table, I'd say that
this deserves a clarification to avoid abuse.  I've been trying to "play
fair" with this, by picking the biggest I can fit and working my way down
to get the total I need, for the most part.  This is probably only a
problem with the zero crew plants.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:57:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Cargo costs...

  I agree fully with the idea that bulk carriers are doing most of the
Imperium's shipping.  Compared to a 200T Far Trader, a ship of 800T, let
alone several thousand, is much more profitable.  For example, as part of
my work on the Far Trader design, I developed the "Serious Work Ball" - an
800T merchant with J2 that was just a Far Trader with four times the
capacity in terms of pasengers.  The Far Trader (which duplicated the CT
version faithfully) was unprofitable (just like the CT design); the
Serious Work Ball turned a tidy profit.

  This is due to some scale effects in QSDS, by the way, and may not be
true for SSDS.  In QSDS, the cost of controls, sensors, and other
necessary equipment is fixed - larger ships can spread that cost over more
cargo space.  Moreover, there are real problems prior to TL 12 with small
ships - since even the smallest ships have to have a really big fusion
generator, lots of space is taken up by the power plant that can't be used
for cargo.  It makes for an interesting break point, in that small
traders, esp in the under 500T class, can be commercially viable (but only
just) at TL12 but not before.  Perhaps the flexibility this gives to trade
is part of what makes the Sylean empire grow - I thinks it makes sense, at
least from the preliminary numbers I've been running. 

  After I've finished my Far Trader design, I'm going to write up some of
my thoughts on starship economics, based on the cost of passenger and
freight trave.  The cost differential of High vs. Middle passage is broken
economically (you make so much more on middle passengers it's not funny!),
largely because CT only allowed 4 Ton cabins; now that Middle passengers
get by on 2 Tons, well, the economics don't make sense.  Perfect place for
the insertion of government regulations to explain marketplace
distortions, though. 


______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:44:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

You might want to check this one out...it's an FFS design from Pre-T4
days. The actual design will be in the archives somewhere...I think it's
on line at Goeran's site, wherever that is nowadays :-/ The only address I
can find for that is at dragonfire, which, btw, has GOT to be the slowest
%#$@% site I've ever run across, and Goeran's site there seems to consist
of a logo, nothing else.

I have it archived, since I wrote an adventure for it, but unfortunately
it's on the one disk I can't get to right now...the one at home.

It was a true MegaMerchant...over 1,000,000 tons displacement of modular
freighter. The <modules> were over 50,000 dT each...this is big, folks
really, REALLY big. This one, too, was designed in response to the ages
old question of whether free traders could possibly exist at 1000cr/ton
freight charges. (This is turning into another One OF Those Topics, folks,
like rocks, feudal technocracy and Virus)

When the Imperium gets going, this is why free traders and far traders
can't live on 1000 cr/t freight charges. Now, at the very beginning of the
third Imperium, there's a lot more stuff floating around, because the
largest amount of trade is going to be outside the imperium, where the
costs of cargo are what the market will bear. In fact, if the 1000 cr/dt
figure is an Imperial decree, this would be a powerful argument for
independent worlds to join the Imperium, and could account for the truly
rapid expansion we see, by canon timeline.

The only question is how did the Imperium ever afford this in the first
place??

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, K.C. Komosky wrote:

> There has been some discussion on the list about the cost of shipping 
> cargo, and how 1000Cr is not enough to make a free trader financially 
> viable.
> 
> Well,it occured to me that our free trader designs are NOT just competing 
> with each other, they are probably competing with 20000 ton bulk 
> freighters, which probably have a much lower cost per ton of cargo ratio.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:08:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, K.C. Komosky wrote:

> There has been some discussion on the list about the cost of shipping 
> cargo, and how 1000Cr is not enough to make a free trader financially 
> viable.
> 
> Well,it occured to me that our free trader designs are NOT just competing 
> with each other, they are probably competing with 20000 ton bulk 
> freighters, which probably have a much lower cost per ton of cargo ratio.

That is why Free Traders or other small freighters are mainly found on 
the borders of tHe Imperium. Shipping small cargos to off-way worlds 
were there is a chance of making a profit. 
> 
> I'f I'm trying to ship some widgets from Sylea to some other plant, I'm 
> not going to pay more to have my cargo shipped via a far trader, I'm 
> going to go the cheapest route possible.

Off course. But when you want to ship a small cargo to a off-way world
where there is no regular traffic, your only hope is to pay what ever
the free, fat, far trader charges.
> 
> The same thing happens in modern day shipping. There is no way a small 20 
> foot shipping boat could ever hope to make money shipping crude oil and 
> competing with the giant oil tankers. There are probably similar 
> economies of scale working in the trucking and rail industries.
> 
But no huge tanker ships oil to a small eskimo-village on Greenland. That
is an area where smaller boats ship cargo.

> I don't know if this is canon or not, but I would hereby suggest that most 
> cargo shipping in the imperium is NOT by small 200 ton free or far 
> traders. This forces anyone operating such a small vessel to either 
> engage in speculative trading, or to try and get hired for "special" 
> cargoes aka adventures!

Or being based in low standard shipping areas, or shipping mostly special
stuff. Maybe like a World Wide Express delivery system. I would also
guess that large freighters go by predetermined routes, so if you want to
move cargo fast to a world, a smaller ship might be the only solution.
> 
> Any thoughts? Would anyone like to try and devise a 5000 ton bulk 
> freighter and determine if the cost per ton  of cargo is actually lower 
> (I'll give it a try this weekend if no one else does).
> 
It should be lower or the economical system is defintivly broken.


> K.C. Komosky
> umkomosk@cc.umanitoba.ca
> 
> 

Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:11:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD

  Thanks for posting the design of the YugoBox - it confirms I'm doing
things right as far as the QSDS rules go.  The lack of profit with cargo
demonstrates the problem with trying to go with the cheapest possible
starship.  As I'll demonstrate in a later post, Middle passengers are the
route to high profits - I did a YugoBox-like design that replaced all the
cargo hold with 2 Ton passenger staterooms.  Even with the higher cost
(both construction and crew), it made a nice profit.  

  Problem is, passenger liners of a larger size are likely to take most of
that business, since they run regular routes and operate at higher profit
margins than 200T Far Traders.  Think of passenger traffic on a Far Trader
as more like dealing with the overflow from the big liners (if you are at
a high-pop planet) or those few folks on a low pop planet that want to
leave.  Far Traders have a mix of cargo and passenger space so that you
can pick up some money somewhere, especially when there aren't enough
passengers on one leg of the route.

  Speculation is neccesary, no doubt about it.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:30:39 -0800
From: Douglas McCorison <douglas@camax.com>
Subject: Re: YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Here's my take on YugoBox economics:
> 
> Total cost:     57.8 MCr
> Down Payment:   11.56 MCr
> 
> Monthly Mortgage:       0.241 MCr
> Crew Salaries (2)       0.009
> Life support            0.004
> ann maintenance         0.005
> Fuel                    0         that's why we have scoops! (even though,
> at 3 dT/hour it'll take over 13 hours to purify a full fuel load...not
> exactly quick getaway time!)

Oops... if you do this you need to include the time to move to the 
local GG to fuel in your trip time.  I seem to recall seeing on 
the list at some point that this would typically add something like
3 days per trip.  Which blows your 2 trips a month schedule out
of the water.  Also how does this work where there are no GGs and
the locals don't want your dirty ship in their pristine ocean?

Still you've made some good points.  I know my players went,
"We can't make money on freight!!" and have had some lovely 
adventures getting their speculative cargo.  With more to come...

Douglas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:34:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Crew Size for CDB-1

Ahhh mail seems to be coming through again...

On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Mark Clark wrote:
>   By the way, I noticed that some of the very small TL12 power plants are
> rated as using 0.0 crew.  I suppose one could reduce crew requirements by
> using a whole bunch of these instead of one big power plant - I just get
> the picture of a ship with a whole bunch of portable generators wired in
> series.

	I took this to be a rounding problem...that these take less than
0.05 crew member to operate...actual crewing requirements willbe close to
the actual size of the powerplant required...a 100 mW plant will take .1
crewmember; 10 10 mW will take the same.

OTOH, a free trader with a bazillion little Honda generators running in
the hold is a sight to behold, though ;-) I had a neighbor who had his
electricity cut off, once...he just hauled his construction site generator
out back of his apartment...for two weeks, until he resolved his dispute
with the electric co, we lived with one of those things running 24/7. Loud
and obnoxious! 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:16:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Crew Size for CDB-1

> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:45:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>

[re: Rated vs. actual minimum crew sizes]
>   I seem to recall that the stated minimum applies to "normal operations"
> -- combat requires the number of crew that the calculations call for.  What
> is unclear is if you need to do the calculations for how many crew,
> install that many workstations, and then the small one or two person crew
> has to move between the workstations to fly the ship, or if a 100T ship
> only needs one workstation (or a 200T ship 2).

This is definitely unclear in the rules.  My take on the issue is this:
In order to get a ship "flight rated" in the Imperium, you need to provide
facilities (including workstations, living space, and so forth) for the
'rated' crew requirement.  However, if less people are doing the jobs, it
doesn't involve running from seat to seat; instead, each workstation is a
generic interface unit, which can do any required job.  This mirrors the
trend here on TL 8 Terra, by the way; more and more interfaces to (say)
industrial control systems are just a PC running special software, rather
than dedicated units.

So, on a 100-ton vessel with a crew of one, we can imagine the poor
harried pilot swapping frantically between the "Engineering Status"
window, the "Navigation Tracking" window, the "Maneuver Control" window,
the "Communications" window...

Anybody who's ever heard a mysterious warning *beep* with 12 open
applications on the desktop knows just how effective this pilot will be if
something unusual happens. :)

>   By the way, I noticed that some of the very small TL12 power plants are
> rated as using 0.0 crew.  I suppose one could reduce crew requirements by
> using a whole bunch of these instead of one big power plant - I just get
> the picture of a ship with a whole bunch of portable generators wired in
> series.

I love it!  "OK, we made port...Bob, head out into startown and see if you
can scrounge 73,000 D cells.  I'll handle the duct tape."

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:43:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey Part III

Roderick...I hope you've considered all the implications of letting the
PC's successfully introduce a virus into their opponent's ship that
easily. What your PC's can do...NPC's can do too!

Right now, I"m REALLY glad I'm not on that ship!

Hell, I'm really glad I'm not in that UNIVERSE!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:01:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: YugoBox Deckplans!!!

They're here!

go to :

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/tprogs.html

they're reachable from the bottom of the page, which is otherwise my
incredibly lame-o Traveller programs and stuff page. (the page, not the
programs!)

	These are the first detailed deckplans I've tried my hands at, and
I ran into a bunch of problems...mostly, how to allocate non-square space
on a deckplan so that things like corridors, lounges, etc actually take up
the volume they're supposed to, no more. I suspect that if I measured them
out exactly, the free cargo space on these deckplans is less than the
design calls for.

Anyone have any hints?

Side note

For those of you who try to get the Mac .hqx (like the deckplan
symbols or the sector files) files from that page...right
now, until they fix the server, (IF they fix the server :-( you simply
have to copy the text that loads into netscape, save it to a file, and
unbinhex that. MicroSloth's Internet Explorer handles it properly, and
I'll have to try it with CyberDog tonight to see if it works that way,
too. I also have to try from home...it may just be my Netscape on Windoze
here at work.. but I've downloaded many megs of binhex through this
system, and it's always asked ask if I want to save the file, not simply
loaded it as text.

One of these days I'll redo my webpages into an insanely great
demonstration of html eptitude, but until then they'll be the web
equivalent of that drawer you have in your kitchen that's full of rubber
bands, pens, scissor, the pair of pliers you keep to turn on the gas jet,
etc.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:51:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: The THUDD-contest spesific

I missed the THUDD-contest specifics, because I'm on La Palma, the
Canary Islands doing some observations with the Nordic Optical
Telescope. I have been quite busy. Could someone repost these.

Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:14:33 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: t4 npc generator

Just curious if anyone has designed an NPC generator for T4

PeteH

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #950
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 951



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

THUDDD, QSDS, tech level and controls
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA
Re: crew requirements
ISBA: Bertling CC denys failure
ISBA: Bertling enters THUDD-contest
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Design & THUDDD Questions
Re MMT4 Tasks
Armored Starships in SSDS
[TML] Idea
Re: ISBAMSF
ISBA Alert
Re: [T97#943] PBEMs?
Custom Built Wreckage Press Release
[none]
Re: [TML] Arcadia Shipyards Joins ISBA

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:13:03 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: THUDDD, QSDS, tech level and controls

>>        Well, it looks like it is possible to do a 200td J-2 vessel that
>>has a decent chance of making money!  I used a crystaliron hull, TL9
>>controls, 

>	I'm sorry, but you can't have a J-2 ship with TL-9 controls.  You 
>can't have things installed on your ship that exceed the TL of your 
>controls.  Why?  Can you imagine operating a PEMS or j-drive with 
>low-tech mechanical controls? Of course not.  I don't know if this rule 
>was ommitted from Q/SSDS, but it's in FF&S, on which both systems are based.

So, is this going to become official errata for the two ship design systems? 
Those of us who don't have FF&S need to know to make sure our designs stay
"official" when NAH comes out (as well as getting it right in the THUDDD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:39:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

I rather stupidly sent the first post without a bunch of useful
information...I HATE having the cancel key and the send key NEXT to each
other...one of the bigger failings of Pine :-(

Alvin Plummer was the designer of the Majesta class of megamerchants...the
details are at Dave Golden's (not Goeran's) website at:

http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Admiralty/Ships/Majesta.html

These things, as I said, are really REALLY big...they carried 16 50,000
ton cargo modules, something like > 750,000 dT of cargo at once. They had
a crew of 87 THOUSAND people, though approximately half of those were
simply the dependents of the crew...basically, these things were jump
capable suburbs.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:07:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

> Go back and re-read the crewing sections of QSDS and SSDS...I suspect
> you're rounding up where you don't have to, and possibly before you have
> to. Remember all crew final requirements are figured after the entire ship
> is designed, that's when you add all those 'fractional' crew numbers up.
>
> I can't see more than 4 for a minimal 200dT trader: Pilot, Navigator,
> Electronics, and Engineering.  Maybe throw in Gunnery and Steward if
> you're anal about it. That gives you six, right below the 'Command crew' 
> level.

From QSDS 1.5:

 Command Crew:  Total the above crew, and divide by six (round fractions
 to the nearest whole number).  This is the number of command crew.  They
        ^^^^^^^ [emphasis mine]
 will require workstations.

The above crew is everything but stewards and medics.  This means that you
need a Command officer in the example above.  (The nearest whole number to
the fraction 4/6 is one.)  If it means "one for every six", it should read
instead "drop all fractions".  Stewards and medics don't count toward this
total, but we end up with 5-7 in your example.  Another problem with the
sentence as written is whether to round up or down when the fraction is 
3/6 (0.5).  

As for the economic end, I've been assuming that Command crew costs kCr 6
and Electronic crew kCr 5 per month, since there's been no statement on
this subject anywhere I can find.  

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

       "...rumors circulated on the exchange floor today that 
        the megacorporation Tukera Lines, LIC, or one of its'
        subsidiaries, would enter a bid in the THUDDD-1 design
        competition sponsored by the new industry organization
        ISBA.  No confirmation or denial of these rumors was
        forthcoming from Tukera, et al. by press time."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:41:36 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: crew requirements

On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Craig Berry wrote:

> I'm confused about how much leeway there is in crew requirements for small
> starships.  By my calculations using strict QSDS rules, a typical 200-ton
> Far Trader mounting a laser, a sandcaster, and improved avionics would
> need at least 7 crewmembers:
> 
>   1 engineering
>   1 electronics
>   2 maneuver (pilot, astrogator)
>   2 gunnery (laster, sand)
>   1 command (for the 6 above)
>  ----
>   7
> 
> In addition to these, you'll need 1 medic to carry any passengers at all
> (and this is enough for the crew/passengers of reasonable 200-ton
> traders), plus at least one steward, two if you plan on carrying 7 or more
> high passengers along with any mid-psgs at all, or 8 or more
> hi-psgs with no mid-psgs.  With the medic and one or two stewards, we're
> up to 9 or 10 crew.
> 

	I think that Craig's dilemma here hits squarely on the role of the
far/free trader in the Traveller Universe.  Simply put, I don't see dinky
little ships like these providing the typical 'High Passage' kind of
service at all...they're too small, and as Craig found out, soon need to
have way too many crew members. The same holds for all the armament that's
typically put on these things. 

	I have always seen the far trader as offering nothing more than
middle passage, actually, sort of like hitching a ride with a coastal
freighter. You job as passenger is to stay out of the way of the crew when
they're working, and if you want to eat, you go eat in the galley when the
crew eats...none of this 'Love Boat' servant stuff

	Of course, this will vary depending on the roles played by the
PC's or NPC's who are the passengers on these things, but, I don't think
these small ships fit into the standardized shipping/passenger model we've
been trying to shoehorn them into. They are speculative trading/casual
charter craft, and that's all. They don't get the 1000 cr/ton shipping
traffic, that's what the 10,000 ton container ships are for; they don't
get High passage customers...they go on Liners, not Far Traders! Heck,
I'll bet they have a hard time convincing people to pay Middle passage...

	These ships were intended, IMHO, form the start to be the
prototypical PC-owned ship, and not as a major economic force in the
Imperium, bound by the rules of High/Middle passage and 1kCr/T freight. As
we've found, this sytem breaks when you try to apply these rules to small
ships like this. Either small ships (and ships in general) are a LOT
cheaper than the design systems would have them, or the trade that goes on
in the Imperium is not like the rules state. 

	As for armament, I, for one, want to see a return of the classic
'triple threat' turret that used to be available...one turret that carried
a beam or pulse laser, a missile rack and a sandcaster. This neatly solves
the 'I now need three gunners' problem as well as letting a crew of two
both flee and fight. 

	Hey Guy, maybe in QSDS 2.0 you could add this? Maybe as a
component for ships of less than 4 or 500 tons, if nothing else?

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:34:45 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: ISBA: Bertling CC denys failure

Sylea, Core 

Today Bertling Construction Companys ISBA-director Thomas Van Ferder
denied that Bertlings Design Division was having problems designing
a ship within the specifications of the Imperial THUDD-contest, and
this is the reason why Bertling so far has made no mention of entering
the presticious contest.

Many reporters had found the lack of involvment from Bertling strange
as they claim to be specialaizing in civilian freighers. "Wait and see"
was the only comment from the newly appointed ISBA-director for the
Bertling Construction Company.



- -----------
Tommy Grav  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:51:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: ISBA: Bertling enters THUDD-contest

Press-Release from Bertling Construction Company, department Sylea

We are proud to announce that we now offically are entering
the Imperial THUDD-contest. We are have just finished our 
first test-ship, the BITS-One, at our Kilma testing facility.

Thomas Van Ferder
Bertlings ISBA-director, Sylea

- -----------
Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:22:42 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

> >
> >B5 is totally different to any other SF series. Characters evolve, and
> >our perceptions of them change.
> 
> Not so! _Battlestar: Galactica_ was very much linear over the course of the
> show (excluding the horrible revival _BG:1980_). Characters and villains
> grew, their relationships changed, they matured, and even died.

You are actually comparing Battlestar Galactica to Babylon 5?  You 
must be joking.  

I liked Battlestar as a kid, but it doesn't even rate with the likes 
of B5.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:02:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Design & THUDDD Questions

1) I have the feeling this has been answered before, but I don't have a
   reference in front of me.  Are the minimum armor values (micrometeor
   protection, etc.) from FF&S now gone?  SSDS requires internal structure
   but makes armor optional, and several QSDS hulls (and many of the ships
   in STARSHIPS, buggy as they are) have Armor 0.  Is this intentional?
   Just what kind of hull does that indicate?  (Not even .2 cm of
   superdense?  Sounds more like "Open Frame" to me!)

2) Are our THUDD designs to be kept Top Secret until unveiling to the
   contestants for votes?  Mine's done and submitted: I just wondered
   how long I should keep it under wraps before "going public", perhaps
   with full-scale LTD press release.  :-)

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:34:50 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re MMT4 Tasks

> 1) Players hated 1/2d
> 2) Crit fail was right but success chances were too high

For both of these, you should try my system.  There are only two half 
die (and we haven't found them to be that much of a problem--whole 
die are cleaner, but 1/2 die are necessary to get the right 
probabilities).

To calculate target number:
	(Skill x 2) + (Attribute / 2) round up

For the difficulties, change Staggering to 4D and Impossible to 5D.  
I've run a probability study on this--accounting for both spectacular 
success and failure--and the probabilities fall right in line.  

This system keeps impossible tasks impossible.

> 3) after applying difficulty fix, chances were too huigh for both success
 and crit-fail.

Again, try my system.  Its easy.  It is a deriviative from the T4 
basic system, and it works.

> 4) Tasks do not have any time components (even specificed times to atempt)
> that I could find in the rules (Had this problem with TNE, too)

Be a creative GM.  When I need to know time, I simply use the MT 
system.  It adapts painlessly to the T4 system.

> 5) Stats became more imoportant than skill, and easier to acquire.

This is one of the two main reasons I developed my task fix (the 
other is that the chance of success with the T4 basic system is too 
high).  By doubling the skill and halving the attribute, you get a 
target number close to what the T4 basic system gives you, but it is 
skewed to raise the importance of skill over attribute (yet, the 
attribute still has a major role in the calculation).

 
> on a side note, I find the experience system to be annoying, inconsistent
> with CGen, and not to my player-group's liking. THey also bitched loudly
> about TNE's.

Yeah, I don't like the experience system either.  I think MT had the 
best system for this, but in general, Traveller has always had a weak 
experience system in all its incarnations.

This is my next project for my game--to develop a better experience 
system.


> 
> Just for reference, I don't like gurps because difficulties are expressed
> soley as modifiers to target number, and all tasks are on 3d vs asset.

I like to stay as close to the official rules as I can.  It saves me 
a lot of continual conversion work and constant re-thinking.  I try 
to only change those things, like the task system, that I can't live 
with as written.

Kenneth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:48:48 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Armored Starships in SSDS

Hi,
Brad Urwiller wrote;
The problem is with ARMOR.  On step 15 it mentions: place the armor
value chosen here.  Well in the rest of the sequence ARMOR isn't
mentioned. However on the worksheet there is a field for armor mass and
volume.  

It just so happens I actually have Starships with me, so I can
answer this.

On page 70, under step 3, third paragraph.  It says
"Multiply that same Volume Factor by the armor level desired for the
volume taken up by the armor. "

Its pretty easy to miss that sentence.  You just pick the armor level
that you want, multiply by the Volume Factor. Then multiply the
volume by the density to get the mass, and by the price to get the
total cost.  

There are a few other mentions of armor in that paragraph. Mostly about
the price being effected by types of streamlining.

I hope this helps.

Lewis Roberts
 .

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:52:11 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] Idea

I have several ideas I want to throw out to the list to get their feedback (and I don't mean  a 
high pitched squeal)

FIRST IDEA
Variable Ammo Damage
Dum Dum - roll one extra die for every two dice (round down), take the highest dice. ie a 
Magnum Pistol (doing 3D) using this type of ammo would roll 3D+1D and the damage 
would be the highest three. However armour absorbs damage at the same rate. So if you 
fired a 6D rifle using dumdum rounds it would get 9D, best 6 but armour absorbs 3 extra 
dice
HE - roll twice the number of dice, keep the best base number as above.
AP - as dum dum but keep the lowest three, and armour absorbs less on the same ratio

ie
Magnum PIstol
Ball 3D
DumDum 4D (best 3), Armour +1
HE 6D (best 3), Armour +3
AP 4D (lowest 3), Armour -1

SECOND IDEA
Shotguns are treated as 1D6 separate 1D attacks

------------------------------

Date: 14 Feb 97 22:04:42 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: ISBAMSF

|\___/|
| | | |
| |C| |  Custom
| |B| |  Built
\ |W| /  Wreckage, Inc
 \| |/   
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Alpher/Solomani Rim:Crashland City		044-0001
MEMORANDUM FOR:  ISBA Membership

SUBJECT:  Corporate Information Request and Dinner RSVP

Mr Chairman,

Regarding your request for data submissions from member corporations,
Custom Built Wreckage has compiled the following:

Name of Firm:  Custom Built Wreckage, IG
Company Chair:  Grabow Freem, Chief Executive Officer and President for
Life
Department Heads:
	Roy Ubu, Chief, Architecture Division
	Maria Marcos, Chief, Eletronics & Sensor Systems
	R. H. Wilson, Chief, Research & Development

Company Statement:  Custom Built Wreckage is a privately owned company
dedicated to the design, production and distribution of starships,
propulsion and electronics.  We specialize primarily in small military
craft, 1000 Standard tons and smaller.

Mission Statement:  "Our goal is to provide all our customers, including
private owners, small and large companies and planetary governments with
the best damn ships available for the best possible prices."

  

- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:44:02 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <BRuadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: ISBA Alert

****News Flash****
Coutesy Sylean Network News
date: 043-0000

The Bureau of Spacecrafr Safety, Heath, and Transit Standards is to send
a representative to the ISBA conference. In a short press conference,
Count Galliard Heuriss, director for the BSSHTS, announced today that he
has appointed Sir Ira Rimmer as the official liason to the ISBA. Count
Heuriss went on to explain his bureau's role in the ISBA.

"As I am sure you all know, the mandate of the (BSSHTS) is to develope
and maintain safety and habitabilty regulations so as to insure safe and
comfortable transit among the stars. With the formation of the Imperial
Starship Builder's Association, we of this bureau have a value
opportunity to work with a large cross-section of builders and
contractors and further this bureau's mission as never berfore known in
the history of manned spaceflight."

When asked about extra-Imperial companies being involved with the ISBA,
Count Heuriss had this to say, "In the 1700 years since the fall of the
Second Imperium, what few spacefaring cultures have arisen have
certainly developed safety standards of their own, and all new ideas
bear consideration. Furthermore, the standardization of safety and
health issues will help integrate new cultures as this Imperium expands
to fulfill its destiny."

Count Heuriss then closed the meeting with an explaination that he must
prepare for a later conference with the Emperor concerning the proposed
price fix of life-support fees.

Sir Ira Rimmer waved briefly at the media before departing abruptly for
a ship that was to transport him to the next ISBA conference.

*****End Transmission****

- -- 
If it sounds like a Babel Fish run ... 
for a Vogon constructor fleet
cannot be far behind!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 22:20:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#943] PBEMs?

Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>, emulating a wet
blanket, writes...

T::>I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML the proper place
 ::>for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA sidelines are),
 ::>wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM and then post any
 ::>Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the bandwidth on the TML
 ::>for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list is for????????

 No, this list is for general discussion (not just techie
 discussion) of Traveller.  That includes floating ideas for
 background, criticising the unrealisms in the background (like
 those godawful unbelievable Nunclees in Aliens Archive), and in
 general, supporting Traveller in any of its incarnations.  Pure
 techiness can be found on the GDW-BETA list, and, for the
 language geeks out there (including me, so don't be getting
 your panties in a twist!), the TravLang list.

 While I certainly don't think that actually running a PBEM is
 an appropriate use for the list, I certainly have no objection
 to discussion of currently running PBEMs, or the posting of
 Traveller-related fiction, or the "interactive" creation of
 background details (such as the ISBA), and besides, as you
 indicate, some of that stuff is fun to read!

 As far as I'm concerned, the ISBA can stay!

"Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net> replies to
Colin...

T::>Good point; this isn't the proper place for PBeM's to occur.  OTOH, these
 ::>ISBA posts are *great* fodder, and of much broader appeal than a standard
 ::>PBeM.  It's more like reading a piece of a full-fledged TAS business
 ::>journal every day.  I'd love it if IG took this stuff and put it into
 ::>JTAS #26.  I can see a series of articles growing out of this, maybe even
 ::>a supplement someday.

T::>Just MHO, of course.  If a decision is made to take the ISBA stuff off
 ::>the TML, I'd like to be included on whatever alternate list is set up; I
 ::>won't be contributing, but I'd like to continue to read these posts.

 I'll second this - but, as I stated above, I hope the ISBA
 stays; if it doesn't, then, like Joe, I want to be included as
 a lurker on the replacement list.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  What if there were no hypothetical situations?

------------------------------

Date: 14 Feb 97 22:46:19 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Custom Built Wreckage Press Release

|\___/|
| | | |
| |C| |  Custom
| |B| |  Built
\ |W| /  Wreckage, Inc.
 \| |/   
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Alpher/Solomani Rim:Crashland City		045-0001
MEMORANDUM FOR:  IMMEDIATE NEWS RELEASE

SUBJECT:  CBW-A-0001-1 "Roland" Project Completion

  Custom Built Wreckage, Inc is proud to announce the completion of
the design phase of its first civilian production starship, the
CBW-A-0001-1 "Roland" class Far Trader.
  The Roland is an inexpensive starship designed for the private
entrepeneur or small trading company.  It is capable of carrying
twenty passengers and 66 Standard tons of cargo over short jump
distances both on and off normal trade routes.  Assuming a maximum
cargo and passenger manifest, the ship will be capable of operating at
a consistent profit without the need for speculation.
  Actual construction of the first Roland will begin within the month,
beginning with the construction and environmental stress-testing of
the hull and interior structure.
 
Technical Data:
Roland class Far Trader (SSDS)

Tons:  200 Std (Disk SL)	Loaded Mass:  2057 tonnes	Cost:  63.41 MCr
Crew:  7				High/Mid Pass:  0/20		Low Pass:  4
Cargo:  66 Std			Controls:  Civ (High Auto)	TL:  12

8 Size						2 Jump Drive (280 Std/pc Fuel)
							1 Maneuver Drive (Thrusters, 50 MW/2000 Th)
2x 95Mj Laser Tt (+0) 1/1-0-0-0	1 Power Plant (100MW Fusion)
							41.1 Fuel (Scoop 80)
							A2 P4 J0 Sensors
							10 Armor	9 Structure

Crew Detail:  1 Commander/Owner, 1 Pilot, 1 Astrogator, 1 Engineer, 2
Gunners, 
		    1 Sensor Op
		    The Piloting and Astrogation functions can be performed by a
single
		    crewman if necessary.  
		    Steward functions can be performed by the Gunners.

Small Craft:  2.0 Std allocated for Small Vehicle Storage.  One Grav
Truck (1.0 Std) or two small air rafts (0.6 Std) can be stored.

Accommodations:  1 Large Stateroom (Owner=B9s Cabin), 26 Small
Staterooms (6 Crew + 20 Passengers), 4 Low Berths


Blueprint Tour:
  The Roland class Far Trader is built on a 200 Standard ton,
streamlined disk hull.  There are two decks.  The lower deck is used
for cargo and quarters, and the upper deck is reserved for fuel
tankage.  
  The forward section of the ship is dominated by the 66 ton cargo
bay, which opens to the front and is flanked on either side by the two
main airlocks.  The cargo bay ceiling is 5 meters in height, tall
enough to stack two standard cargo modules (2x2x3.5 meters) on top of
each other.
  On the port side of the ship is the command center and the crew
quarters.  A narrow corridor runs around the cargo bay, connecting all
sections of the ship.  The aft quarter of the ship is occupied by the
engineering and drive section, the low berths, the ship=B9s locker,
and the small vehicle hangar.  Finally, the passenger staterooms are
located in the entire starboard side.  They are each 2 meters wide, 3
meters deep and 2.5 meters tall, stacked in columns of two to make
room for a modest common area (which includes sanfac units and ration
dispensers).  The upper row of staterooms is accessed by ladders on
each end of the corridor and has a 1 meter wide walkway.  The ship is
somewhat cramped, but the conditions are adequate for economy travel.
  The new Roland Far Trader will be built using high-quality, reliable
SSDS parts.


Financial Data:
Operating Expenses:
	Down Payment:			12.682 MCr
	Annual Maintenance:		 63410 Cr

	Monthly Payment:		264208 Cr
	Crew Salaries:
		Pilot			  6000
		Astrogator		  5000
		Engineer			  4000
		Sensors			  2000
		Gunners			  2000

	Life Support:
		Staterooms		108000
		Low Berths		   800

	Monthly Maintenance:	  5248
	
	Monthly Refueling Costs:	 20000

	Berthing Fees:			   200

	Total Monthly Expenses:	417492 Cr

Operational Incomes:				90% Manifest:
	Cargo:
		Cargo (66 tons)	132000		118000

	Maximum Passengers:
		Mid Passengers		320000	   	288000
		Low Passengers	 	  8000		  6000 (75%)

	Total Monthly Income:	460000 Cr		412000 Cr

	
	Net Potential Profit:	 42508 Cr	     - 5492 Cr	


- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:11:33 -0800
From: Mark Ayers <mark@bbic.com>
Subject: [none]

The Right Honorable Bertrand Lord Worcester, Baron of Rotaer, Knight 
Commander of the Order of Retlif announced today the subsidiary involvement 
of the shipyards at Rotaer in the endeavor know as Imperial Shipbuilder's 
Association. [ISBA]

Name of Firm: Worcester Yards
Spokes Person for the Firm in the ISBA and position: Benjamin Manxier, 
Esquire
Sex and Race: Male, Mixed Human
Ship Specialization:
1. Small Military (Less then 3000 Tons)
2. Small Civilian (Less then 3500 Tons)

Specializing in custom building and design projects. We have the best naval 
architects and extensive arraignments with the Emperor's own yards at Sylea 
for technology exchange.
Membership Level: Associated Member
This is a list of things ISBA believes the ISBA can do. Please mark the 
ones you wish to be involved with. The range is 1-5 with 1 being the one 
you are most interested in. You will then be broken into groups based on 
the number/ Membership you selected as well as the demand for a group.
In an unconfirmed report the Worcester Yards at Rotaer are rumored to be 
constructing a 337 Td Assault Ship for Sir Harold Worcester, third son of 
the Baron of Rotaer. Sir Harry, once a black sheep in the family, has 
returned from Pandrial where he served the government during the recent 
civil war. With him is a crack team of mercenaries. The ship is reported to 
be for registry as a Fast Trader. This reporter, however, has unconfirmed 
reports that the ship will be a cylinder air frame capable of 3 parsec FTL 
and 4G acceleration using the latest technology available. Unique to this 
design are separate power plants for each of the drive plates and a power 
load balancing unit. More details will follow as they are available.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:58:20 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Arcadia Shipyards Joins ISBA

At 07:37 PM 2/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
>
>
>Arcadia Shipyards is a growing starship and spacecraft construction firm,
>with facilities on the major worlds of the Arcadia Cluster.  The company's
>headquarters are located adjacent to their main starship construction yard,
>at Matsumoto downport.  The company has extensive orbital yards, located in
>Space Stations X and XI in the Matsumoto Orbital Complex.  Arcadia is
>best-known for their high degree of vertical integration, from design to
>component production through final assemby and certification testing.


...serving the Imperium with it's new, cutting-edge
Comet-class cruisers ;)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #951
**********************************
yTraveller-digest     Saturday, February 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 952



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

THUDD: Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader
Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek
Re: Cargo costs...
Re:  [TML] Rules for Thought
Re MMT4 Tasks
Re: Re MMT4 Tasks
1/2 Die
Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA
Re: YugoBox Deckplans!!!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #950
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA
Don't post THUDDD entries to the list!
Re: Long Day's Journey Part III
Re: THUDD: Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader
YugoBox SSDS vs QSDS calculations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:07:18 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: THUDD: Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader

TK-108 Far Trader

Tammuz-Karst is pleased to announce it has completed preliminary
design of the TK-108 Far Trader.  We believe this ship represents
the best reasonable balanced design to the general Far Trader
conceptual configuration.  We note, however, that following the
standard economic models for monthly gross and rate of return
indicates that the TK-108 will not be profitable.  This is a
generic problem with small jump-2 transports at the current
level of technology, not limited to the TK-108, and we feel
that innovative use of the ship and trading potential can give
useful profitable service from this and similar models.
Potential owners are cautioned however that they may well
face difficulties in this regard.

While certain detailed layout designs are being kept proprietary
at this time, the general specifications are being announced here
to provide buyers with public comparison information vis-a-vis
other proposed or proprietary products.

Tons: 200 Std (S Disk)	Vol: 2800 m^3		Cost: MCr62.1
Crew: 9			High/Mid Pax: 10	Low: 0
Cargo: 53 Std tons	Controls: Std Civilian	TL: 12

8 Size			2 Jump Drive (40 Std / 2 Pc Fuel)
			1 Maneuver Drive (HEPLAR, 140 MW, 40 G-hrs)
01 Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0	2 Power Plant (275 MW)
02 Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0	48 Fuel
			0 Meson Sc
			0 Sandcasters
			0 Nuc Damp
			A2 P3 J0 Sensors
			10 Armor  9 Structure

Crew detail: 1 engineer, 1 electronics, 2 maneuver, 2 gunners, 
		1 command, 1 steward, 1 medical

Notes:
HEPLAR was chosen as a cost reduction measure: you save a bit over 5 MCr
of raw price (3.something with QSDS multiplier) with HEPLAR and a larger
powerplant versus Thrusters.  On the other hand, there are slightly more
capabilities in some areas than purely necessary (Improved sensor and
commo gear, and 2 standard laser turrets).  Unless the ship will be operated
on purely internal runs, those extras are worth it, and Far Traders are
most likely to make their profits on the fringe.  40 G-hrs is enough
for realistic maneuver needs.  

Design sequence: QSDS 1.5 [note that I ignore surface area on civilian ships;
you almost never run out and it's a pain (cf the BSDS discussions)]

Hull: 200 ton Disk S, 2-G max, 10 arm, 9 struct, 189.6 Std useful,
	54.6MW, MCr8.8
Jump: J-2, 6 std (+40 t fuel), MCr25.2, 0.2 eng crew
Maneuv: 1-G HEPLAR, 1 std, 140MW, MCr0.1, 5t fuel (40 hrs)
Controls: Std civ, 1.7 tons, 1.3MW, MCr9.2
Sensor: Improved, 0.3t, 12.6MW, MCr7.4, 0.4 elec crew, A2P3J0
Commo: Improved, 0.0t, 10.6MW, MCr0.3, 0.4 elec crew
Weaps: 2 26MW input civ turrets, 6.0t, 53.4MW, MCr2.8, USP (0) 1/2-0-0-0
Crew: 1 eng 1 elec 2 maneuv 2 gnr 1 cmd 1 steward 1 medic (9 total)
	7 workstations, 3.5t, MCr0.014 (no bridge req)
Quarters: 1 small 1 large staterooms for Crew (20t, MCr0.42)
	10 large staterooms for passengers (40t, MCr1.0)
Cargo: 53.4t remaining: 53t std cargo, 0.4t ships locker
Cost: MCr82.734 std, 62.0505 w/QSDS discount (62.1)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:13:39 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek

On 02/14/97 at 12:00 AM,  dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney) said:

> *But* I watch B5 for the realism and plotline, and '*that*' show for fun!
> It doesn't seem to take itself too seriously, and is harmless enough fun.
> I can see your point of view - but it's nicely placed in the UK at
> 11.15pm ish, just after the pubs start closing! ;-)

S:AAB is "mind candy", pure and simple.  Nothing wrong with that, and a few
of the eposides actually had some good acting in them...well pretty good
anyway.

> Anyway, it doesn't annoy me as much as Trek does (arghh! heresy!).

Ah, Trek's Ok..not great, but it beats *most* reruns.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:27:47 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

On 02/13/97 at 03:58 PM,  "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA> said:

> I don't know if this is canon or not, but I would hereby suggest that
> most  cargo shipping in the imperium is NOT by small 200 ton free or far 
> traders. This forces anyone operating such a small vessel to either 
> engage in speculative trading, or to try and get hired for "special" 
> cargoes aka adventures!

This one isn't *quite* up there with "big rocks", but almost! <g>

I think the general consensus is that most trade is carried on *big*
freighters. I think the argument was just how big. 

The 200 ton'ers are the "tramps" of the Imperium.  They work for scraps on
the main runs, carry "special" cargos, exist on spec trade (or smuggling),
and are continiously being pushed further out onto the fringes.

The only place they make economic sense is on the fringes.  Out there, they
can open up trade routes, carry the small amounts of cargo available as
trade grows, and make a few credits before the mega-corps notice and take
over.  Then the little ships just move further out, and start all over
again.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:46:08 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re:  [TML] Rules for Thought

The more I tinker with these things, the more I come up with stuff.

Here's something I'm going to try in my game.  You can add this 
to my original post.  What do you guys think?

Page 57 (Rule Modification):  Here's a nifty little rule that I pulled
out of the Azhanti High Lightning Rule Booklet.  I have a problem with
the automatic unconsciouness brought on by a stat going to zero.  I
think that there should be some sort of a check, especially in the
case of Minor wounds.  The rule of page 12 of AHL suits this need
perfectly.

At the bottom of page 57 in the T4 rule book, make a note of the check
involved when one or two stats go to zero.  
 For a Minor wound, roll 1 D6.  Any roll of 2+ indicates that the
 character remains conscious and the zeroed stat is returned to a
 value of 1.

Use the extra points of damage (that carried over to the other two
remaining physical stats) as a negative DM on this throw.  For
example, a character has Str 2, Dex 3, and End 4 when he is hit with 1
D6 of damage doing 6 points.  The player chooses his End to take the
bulk of the damage, but because a whole die must be applied to one
attribute, there are 2 points of damage left over.  The player decides
to take these additional 2 points of damage on his Dex, reducing it to
1, and when the unconsciousness roll is made, a -2 DM is applied to
the throw.

 For a Serious wound, roll 1 D6.  A 6 is needed for the character to
 maintain consciouness.

If either of these rolls are made, the zeroed stats are returned to a
value of 1.  If the throws are failed, then follow normal
unconsciouness rules.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:06:10 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re MMT4 Tasks

On 02/13/97 at 01:44 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> said:

> 1) Players hated 1/2d

Yeah, I made up some 1d3 and it's better now, but I still don't really like
them a lot.  I mostly use the 1d3's in character
generation, and as half difficulty levels now.

> 2) Crit fail was right but success chances were too high
> 3) after applying difficulty fix, chances were too huigh for both success
> and crit-fail.

I proposed 1d6:Easy, 2D6:Simple, 3D6:Average, 4D6:Difficult,
5D6:Formidable, and 6d6:Impossible, but you're right about the crits.  What
I did about that was to have the GM pick up all the sixes rolled and reroll
them.  On the second roll 2 or more sixes are some sort of critical
failure.  Exceptional successes, I've left as exactly two ones (not 2 or
more).

> 4) Tasks do not have any time components (even specified times to
> atempt) that I could find in the rules (Had this problem with TNE,
> too) 

Well, not officially, I guess they don't.  That hasn't stopped me, though. 
<g> I include a time in tasks, if the PC rushes (.5xtime) the task gets one
level harder, if the PC takes his time (2xtime) the task gets one level
easier.  

> 5) Stats became more imoportant than skill, and easier to acquire.

That's why I introduced the idea of skill aptitudes (-1, 0, or 1) for each
skill.  The skill increases by 1d3+aptitude each time you get it.  The
average increase is 2, but it can range from 0 (I know some folks don't
like that, but a wasted chance is all too realistic) to 4.  This makes the
skill more important.  Of course, the target numbers get too big this way
unless you use full dice for each skill level.

> on a side note, I find the experience system to be annoying, inconsistent
> with CGen, and not to my player-group's liking. THey also bitched loudly
> about TNE's.

Yeah, I proposed a "fix" to that too.  <g> During play the player puts a
check next to each skill they succeed in using.  At the end of a session
the GM awards players X number of skill attempts based on play (don't give
too many), these can be free choices or
designated skills.  The PC will go up one skill point if he *fails* a
Difficult Task against his current skill level in that skill. (What you're
trying to do is roll 4D6>=Current_Skill.  Low Skills improve easily, high
Skills don't.)


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:01:26 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: Re MMT4 Tasks

> From: William F. Hostman <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re MMT4 Tasks
> Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 4:44 PM

> Actually, in a 6 month campaign, I found that the following problems
occured:
> 
> 1) Players hated 1/2d

Why?  Having played primarily d% or d20 games, I find it novel, but have
yet to playtest it.  Give me another week...

> 2) Crit fail was right but success chances were too high
> 3) after applying difficulty fix, chances were too huigh for both success
> and crit-fail.

As above.  Which fix?

> 4) Tasks do not have any time components (even specificed times to
atempt)
> that I could find in the rules (Had this problem with TNE, too)

I don't find this a weakness.  I tend to TLAR/SWAG it based on PC skill,
success level, and task.  I find specified task times to be inane, stupid,
unrealistic, and restrictive.  The MT attempt at it was laughable.  What's
the point of rolling for 3d6 (or whatever) seconds?  This is roleplaying,
and if it's in the ball-park (outside of life and death combat), it's close
enough for us...  A couple hours here or there for various things doesn't
change much.  When I don't have the experience relevant to the task, we
discuss it, or I guess.  ;-)

> 5) Stats became more imoportant than skill, and easier to acquire.

How'd you figure that?  I can see the "more-important-than" argument, but
easier to acquire?  I guess we can argue nature v. nurture, or natural
ability v. training all day...  But let's not and say we did.  Heh. 
Needless to say, I tend to lean toward the genetic-tendencies side, with
the caveat that with the devotion and drive to train anyone can surpass
mere natural ability.

> on a side note, I find the experience system to be annoying, inconsistent
> with CGen, and not to my player-group's liking. THey also bitched loudly
> about TNE's.

How's that?  I find it very realistic.  Most folks, even highly ambitious
ones, after their "formal" education is over don't do much to improve
themselves...  And developing any REAL level of ability in a skill requires
far more time than Traveller/adventurers will have whilst world hopping... 
The odd week in j-space won't cut it if you really want to become a
world-class fencer; that takes years of training.  I'm going to school
full-time, and working two jobs, plus writing several different books that
I'm behind schedule on, so...  I think I'm probably not picking up that
graduate-level statistics skill right now that I'm supposed to be while I'm
reading the TML, eh?  Traveller skill levels reflect more than just mere
"experience or familiarity" that most games reflect; after all, FOUR levels
in medical is an M.D.  That's where the level-0 skills come in...  Anybody
that's watched too many episodes of GI Joe can pick up an autorifle and
give it a go...

As for being consistent with the generation process: does it reflect about
one new skill level every year, as generation does, if the PC spends the
time?  If so, then just have your PCs roll on the appropriate table... 
*rofl*

> Just for reference, I don't like gurps because difficulties are expressed
> soley as modifiers to target number, and all tasks are on 3d vs asset.

Ick.  'Nuff said.



david@techrefuge.com

...hoping not to get lost in the ISBA shuffle.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:14:46 +1100
From: Scott <bear.garden@c031.aone.net.au>
Subject: 1/2 Die

If you are like me and hate rolling a d6 as a d3 (dividing by 2 is really
hard)
you can buy auto fire die for warhammer they are numbered from 1-3 with one
3 being a lightening bolt. I find it much easier than counting on my
fingers under the table.
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:42:46 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA

>I have just one question...How did you possibly end up with a crew
>requirement of <12> on a 200 dT ship???

>Go back and re-read the crewing sections of QSDS and SSDS...I suspect
>you're rounding up where you don't have to, and possibly before you have
>to. Remember all crew final requirements are figured after the entire ship
>is designed, that's when you add all those 'fractional' crew numbers up.

>I can't see more than 4 for a minimal 200dT trader: Pilot, Navigator,
>Electronics, and Engineering.  Maybe throw in Gunnery and Steward if
>you're anal about it. That gives you six, right below the 'Command crew' 
>level.

Engineering 1
Electronics 1
Maneuver  2 (Pilot and Atrogator)
Command 1
Medic 1 (for passenger travel)
Stewards 2 (one required for command crew plus one required for middle
        passengers, per QSDS 1.5)

Which makes for a crew of 8, if no jobs are shared (worst case scenario).
The original TL9 electronics I chose required *4* crew for a total of 11...I
know that FF&S was post virus, and that the numbers have been modified
to reflect pre virus automation, but I think a little tweaking could still be 
done...it seems strange that one guy can run the jdrive, mdrive and pplant 
combined, but it would have taken 4 to say "Hailing frequencies open" <g>
Either these numbers reflect an Imperial Workfare program for indigent
electronics specialists, or Uhura should have been making a lot more money.

Which brings me back to my original question, Assuming a crew of two 
minimum to fill in all these jobs, How much are we paying them as far
as calculating costs for the THUDDD is concerned?

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"All Our Cargo is Carry-On" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:28:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: YugoBox Deckplans!!!

I would go with the approach that FF&S give. Use a 20% as max off-limit.If
the ship is not a straight box (which Yugoships might be) there will be
very difficult to get everything right.

Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:39:45 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #950

Bruce Johnson Wrote:

Roderick...I hope you've considered all the implications of letting the
PC's successfully introduce a virus into their opponent's ship that
easily. What your PC's can do...NPC's can do too!

Right now, I"m REALLY glad I'm not on that ship!

Hell, I'm really glad I'm not in that UNIVERSE!


Actually, from what I understand he was planning on having the little
rodents get onboard anyways, and this was merely an excellent excuse to
avoid having to deal with the (already established) overzealousness of FSY
products.  To further rationalize things, we can also say that it is a
newly-discovered bug in the FSY intruder-defense system (probably related
to the band it uses to communicate with the local FSY dealer when one goes
off in a starport, say, but I'm not bitter or anything) which will
immediately be fixed.  After all, can't have anyone ELSE hijacking FSY
products (expensive as they are!) once we've managed the trick, can we?

Also, I will point out that I STRENUOUSLY objected to him mentioning the
word 'virus' anywhere near the list, FYI.


Ross/Isaac.
Abused, Misunderstood, Oppressed.

Ross Coburn
ross@ican.net
ross@ptm.ca

"Insert clever quote here."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 15:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In-Reply-To: <v02140b01af2920b44b62@[192.121.125.201]>

<< On another note: Can ones jump destination be the same as the origin? I
allow it and it has been used by clever players/pirates to get some heat
from patrol cruisers et c. >>

I see no reason why not (and if you're in a hurry, it should make the 
calculations easier), but remember that you can enter jumpspace from 
anywhere, but you always come out at least 100d from the nearest world (so 
if you did a 'null jump' at 10d, you'd be kicked out at 100d).

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 15:03 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

In-Reply-To: <l03010d01af2983e9be93@[198.70.218.38]>

> >B5 is totally different to any other SF series. Characters evolve, and
> >our perceptions of them change.
> 
> Not so! _Battlestar: Galactica_ was very much linear over the course of the
> show (excluding the horrible revival _BG:1980_). Characters and villains
> grew, their relationships changed, they matured, and even died.

It's years since I saw it. I don't remember any of that!

> Voyager is also doing similar (but not as intense) character growth and
> relationship development.

We're only half way through series 1...I haven't noticed any yet.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 15:03 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA

In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970213181543.00664b60@athens.net>

> 1) Does a ship 200 dt or under need a bridge? One of our recent designs (the
> REALLY Fat Trader) had a crew that needed 2 Command "by the book" if no
> jobs were shared;and this calls for a bridge via the design rules. Yet,
> since any
> 200 dt ship is capable of being run by a crew of 2, would a bridge be 
required?

I would expect there to be safety regulations that require it. You could 
ignore them, of course...

> 2) Similiarly, how many workstations are required for a ship with an
> official crew
> of 12 that can be run by 2 folks?

See above. Also, if you only fit 2 w/s, you can never use more than 2 crew 
members, even if you want to.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:08:37 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Don't post THUDDD entries to the list!

Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett wrote:

>
>1) I have the feeling this has been answered before, but I don't have a
>   reference in front of me.  Are the minimum armor values (micrometeor
>   protection, etc.) from FF&S now gone?  SSDS requires internal structure
>   but makes armor optional, and several QSDS hulls (and many of the ships
>   in STARSHIPS, buggy as they are) have Armor 0.  Is this intentional?
>   Just what kind of hull does that indicate?  (Not even .2 cm of
>   superdense?  Sounds more like "Open Frame" to me!)
>
>2) Are our THUDD designs to be kept Top Secret until unveiling to the
>   contestants for votes?  Mine's done and submitted: I just wondered
>   how long I should keep it under wraps before "going public", perhaps
>   with full-scale LTD press release.  :-)

        Keep it eyes only.  We don't want it having more time to unfairly
influence the judging TML public.  I was only posting the designs I was
doing a) since they're not in the running, b) as a sort of betatest for the
econ values, and c) as an example of why it's really good idea to use a
spreadsheet..:).

        Please don't post THUDDD entries until we've released them!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:08:34 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey Part III

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>Roderick...I hope you've considered all the implications of letting the
>PC's successfully introduce a virus into their opponent's ship that
>easily. What your PC's can do...NPC's can do too!


        Sure.  The thing is is that a) the anti-hijack programs on both
ships were both from the same manufacturer (Famille Spofulam, in case you
were wondering) so the programmer had a good idea of what he was doing, b)
the person responsible had a nice high Computer skill, Intrusion to boot,
and was generally very goody at spookish stuff, c) it was a cute idea, d)
the virus may or may not  have worked out quite as they planned >:) and e)
it made my life easier.

        And as for things going around coming around, well, let's just say
that I'm currently pondering all the ramifications of their actions,
something which certain of their number don't seem to do :).

>
>Right now, I"m REALLY glad I'm not on that ship!


        You bet... the anti-hijack system ain't the half of it..:)


>
>Hell, I'm really glad I'm not in that UNIVERSE!


        But the real fun hasn't even started yet!

>
>Bruce Johnson

        Ross, if you're reading this, sleep well tonight >:)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:46:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: THUDD: Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader

On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, George Herbert wrote:
> 
> TK-108 Far Trader

snip

> Hull: 200 ton Disk S, 2-G max, 10 arm, 9 struct, 189.6 Std useful,
> 	54.6MW, MCr8.8
> Jump: J-2, 6 std (+40 t fuel), MCr25.2, 0.2 eng crew
> Maneuv: 1-G HEPLAR, 1 std, 140MW, MCr0.1, 5t fuel (40 hrs)
> Controls: Std civ, 1.7 tons, 1.3MW, MCr9.2
> Sensor: Improved, 0.3t, 12.6MW, MCr7.4, 0.4 elec crew, A2P3J0
> Commo: Improved, 0.0t, 10.6MW, MCr0.3, 0.4 elec crew
> Weaps: 2 26MW input civ turrets, 6.0t, 53.4MW, MCr2.8, USP (0) 1/2-0-0-0
> Crew: 1 eng 1 elec 2 maneuv 2 gnr 1 cmd 1 steward 1 medic (9 total)
> 	7 workstations, 3.5t, MCr0.014 (no bridge req)
> Quarters: 1 small 1 large staterooms for Crew (20t, MCr0.42)
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That had better be a really large stateroom...you have something like 7 or
8 people living in it ;-)

> 	10 large staterooms for passengers (40t, MCr1.0)
> Cargo: 53.4t remaining: 53t std cargo, 0.4t ships locker
> Cost: MCr82.734 std, 62.0505 w/QSDS discount (62.1)

Also...the design sequence you have there doesn't add up. The actual costs
there add up to 101 MCr, not 89.7, and there isn't anything listed for the
powerplant. Using QSDS 1.5, 275 Mw of powerplant uses another 9.8 of
volume, costs an additional 27.5 mCr, and needs 2.8 dT volume for fuel.
This raises the costs to 128.52 MCr, or 96.4 MCr with the QSDS discount,
and lowers your cargo capacity to just over 40 tons.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 
> Tammuz-Karst is pleased to announce it has completed preliminary
> design of the TK-108 Far Trader.  We believe this ship represents
> the best reasonable balanced design to the general Far Trader
> conceptual configuration.  We note, however, that following the
> standard economic models for monthly gross and rate of return
> indicates that the TK-108 will not be profitable.  This is a
> generic problem with small jump-2 transports at the current
> level of technology, not limited to the TK-108, and we feel
> that innovative use of the ship and trading potential can give
> useful profitable service from this and similar models.
> Potential owners are cautioned however that they may well
> face difficulties in this regard.
> 
> While certain detailed layout designs are being kept proprietary
> at this time, the general specifications are being announced here
> to provide buyers with public comparison information vis-a-vis
> other proposed or proprietary products.
> 
> Tons: 200 Std (S Disk)	Vol: 2800 m^3		Cost: MCr62.1
> Crew: 9			High/Mid Pax: 10	Low: 0
> Cargo: 53 Std tons	Controls: Std Civilian	TL: 12
> 
> 8 Size			2 Jump Drive (40 Std / 2 Pc Fuel)
> 			1 Maneuver Drive (HEPLAR, 140 MW, 40 G-hrs)
> 01 Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0	2 Power Plant (275 MW)
> 02 Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0	48 Fuel
> 			0 Meson Sc
> 			0 Sandcasters
> 			0 Nuc Damp
> 			A2 P3 J0 Sensors
> 			10 Armor  9 Structure
> 
> Crew detail: 1 engineer, 1 electronics, 2 maneuver, 2 gunners, 
> 		1 command, 1 steward, 1 medical
> 
> Notes:
> HEPLAR was chosen as a cost reduction measure: you save a bit over 5 MCr
> of raw price (3.something with QSDS multiplier) with HEPLAR and a larger
> powerplant versus Thrusters.  On the other hand, there are slightly more
> capabilities in some areas than purely necessary (Improved sensor and
> commo gear, and 2 standard laser turrets).  Unless the ship will be operated
> on purely internal runs, those extras are worth it, and Far Traders are
> most likely to make their profits on the fringe.  40 G-hrs is enough
> for realistic maneuver needs.  
> 
> Design sequence: QSDS 1.5 [note that I ignore surface area on civilian ships;
> you almost never run out and it's a pain (cf the BSDS discussions)]
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:32:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: YugoBox SSDS vs QSDS calculations

I've been trying to figure out why there were such disparities between
designs like the YugoBox and the other Far Trader designs floating around,
which mostly seem to be done using SSDS, and I think I found it. QSDS
Hulls include redundant and uneccesary contragrav systems for ships with
thruster plates, at a significant cost in power, volume and money.

I just put together the YugoBox freighter, using SSDS (the .pdf version
from Joe Heck's web site, dated December something 1996) and came up with
some interesting things.

This is an all TL 12 ship (except for a TL -11 jump2 drive from ssds, not
jump 3 which is TL12) with no armor, minimal crew requirements, fuel
scooping and purification, and maximum cargo space. (the usp and other
details have been omitted, for all intents and purposes they are identical
except for the things noted below) 

System	Cargo dT	Power Req (Installed)	Cost (after discount)
QSDS	115.5		128 (130)		77.1 (57.8)
SSDS	110		81 (100)		62.04 (55.8)

the SSDS ship has a power requirement only 63% of the QSDS design, cost's
less by 20% in the raw state, and about  3% after discounts have been
applied. It does end up with a slightly lower cargo space for some reason,
though, and due to the economics, STILL won't make it's money hauling
standard freight.

I guess my big question is where is all that power going in the QSDS
system? With my SSDS design, the YugoBox has some 25% extra power
capacity (19 MW), enough to easily run a laser or two, wheras the QSDS
design has less than 2 MW excess.

My guess is the 'hull' in QSDS, which includes "life support, controls,
airlocks, cargo hatches, artificial gravity, inertial comp, and CG
- -lifters". Why, if you have a thruster plate drive, do you need CG
lifters? Do thruster plates NOT provide hover and maneuver capability,
only thrust in a single vector? This is not so according to SSDS
"Contra-Gravity...They are included here so that ships below tech level 11
(Thuster Plates) can hover and maneuver in an atmosphere" 

For a 200 Ton ship, you need 2000 tons contragrav. By SSDS this costs:

Mass	Volume	Area	Power	Price
53.3	66.7	40	40	2.67

This puts the SSDS equivalent version of the YugoBox at a power
requirement of 120 MW, much closer to the QSDS version, the prices become
closer, and the SSDS has 4 fewer dT of cargo space. 

QSDS, at leats version 2 needs to look at this...maybe a TL difference in
the Hulls table.

With this fix in the QSDS ship, the Yugobox has > 120 dT of cargo space,
and costs slightly less due to lower hull costs, and lower powerplant
requirements. You STILL can't break even hauling standard freight, but
you're over 10,000 Cr closer.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #952
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 953



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

SSDS armour figuring
Re: fuel use in microjumps?
Re: [TML] Idea
M0 and First Survey are out!
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: Yugobox J2 Far Trader
Re: High power, small plants
Re: Crew requirements
[none]
Re: SSDS armour figuring
THUDD & Cargo Costs
Re YugoBox SSDS vs QSDS calculations
Re: ISBA Membership
Re: 1/2 Die
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Starship Design System Conversion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:03:09 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: SSDS armour figuring

Good morning
In researching for the SSDS calss tonight i found out that alot of
people have problems figuring out armour.  Indeed "Starships is somewhat
vauge about this, this is because something was ommited from the book,
and that is armour toughness.

I remebered something about this from FF&S, multiply the number of
centimeters of hull thickness times the toughness rating to get the
armour value.

In SSDS i believe you take this number and use the USP conversion chart
to get the T4 armour.  This would explain why the 200Td box in
QSDS(remeber QSDS is SSDS "Package Deals")would have an armour rate of
0.T3's FF&S values are different from the ones in CSC.  I am assuming
that CSC is the most up to date so I will use the toughness ratings from
that system for SSDS.  Also note that in CSC the armour values are not
linear, there is a chart provided on page 56.  Using our example for
tonight. 1cm of TL-12 superdense takes up .77m^3 masses 11.55tonnes and
has a armour value of 1cm x 11toughness or 11 v. personal weapons and a
USP(ship weapon) value of 0.  To find the thickness for starships , whos
rate most often excededs 5,  devide the rate by 6 and use the thickness
chart.

Yes this way we can figure just haw many shots from a 9mm it would take
to kill the hull, a laser will rip right through it.

lets say we want this ship to have a armour rate of 2(USP). On the chart
2 is equal to at least 40 toughness.  40/6 is 6.67cm thick of armour. 
so we must multiply the volume of 1cm for the hull (.77m^3) times 6.67
to get a grand total of 5.14m^3 and a mass of (x15) 77tonnes.

Most of you may already know thins if you have CSC it is all on page
56.  I just wanted to clarify this before i started spouting it at the
class tonight.  Personaly i think this page should have been included in
the starships book, amoung other things. :)

CYA tonight at X-U!
The Commander  
- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:31:07 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: fuel use in microjumps?

At 06:06 PM 2/14/97 GMT, you wrote:
>how much fuel is used in the microjump? The normal fuel/distance implies
practically zero as I understand it.

You use enough fuel for a jump-1.

>No, I don't want to reopen the debate on what the fuel is used for.

It actually makes a nice mixer with vodka.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:12:45 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Idea

At 09:52 PM 2/13/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I have several ideas I want to throw out to the list to get their feedback 

<ideas snipped>

Check out the new version of 3G3 for Greg Porter's take on some of these
ideas.. they're close to yours, but a little different.

I'll be posting some varient combat rules to my web pages in the near future
so I'll also address some of the problems with T4 combat.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:36:07 CST
From: galliand@juno.com (Scott M Galliand)
Subject: M0 and First Survey are out!

Well, as I haven't seen anybody else mention it, I guess I get to be the
first.

I just received my copies of Milieu Zero and First Survey from Imperium
Games.  So far, I've only thumbed through both and both look interesting
so far.  I have found one mistake:  The statistics for the Scout Cruiser
(M0, p. 86) has a deckplan key.  Unfortunately, they forgot the
deckplans.

First Survey looks good, with statistics on the sectors for both players
and referees.  I didn't see the original Atlas of the Imperium, so I
can't comment on format for it.  But First Survey has a couple pages of
text, then statistics on 9 of the twelve sectors in the region of Core
(three have deliberately been made "GM preserves" - GMs can do as they
wish.) . The book then goes on to give the stats the players should see
along with a map of the sector.  After the player's version of the sector
is presented, the complete stats for the referees are given (given, it
looks like, in the old DGP format, with PGB and star types included).

More when I've had more time to peruse them.  

Wow, what a first!  I get something in La. before anyone else!

Scott Galliand

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:58:24 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In a message dated 2/15/97 1:55:10 PM, you wrote:

>the T4 rules, is it possible for a ship to orient itself on a course
>outsystem, then engage its jump drive for only a second or so, essentially
>causing a "micro-jump"

As far as I know A ship that engages it's jump drive is in jump for a week
regardless of the distances jump. If distance mattered than a Ship with J-3
did a Single parsec jump it whould only take 1/3 a week.
But as long as you plot your course Corectly you will still go were you want
to.
And the week in jump will give you some time to repair damage inside the ship

>Are there any inherent limitations or risks to
>this procedure that makes it impossible?

Not impossible but
If the ship was in combat any number of things can go wrong with Jumping out.

A few thing that come to mind are. Ok I know that combat ships are built more
Robustly and can have there Hull grids beat on servely. But a I don't know if
a Civ ship can take this type of punisment but sinces the prices are the same
it should be able to?? But any sections of the grid that are missing will let
the Jump field into the ship. That is a VERY BAD IDEA TO TOUCH. And if the
fuel tank are hit you can kiss the hole idea goodbye Thats all that I can
give ya Hope it helps some

Victor aka Tbsvt @ aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:40:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

In mail you write:

> The same thing happens in modern day shipping. There is no way a small 20 
> foot shipping boat could ever hope to make money shipping crude oil and 
> competing with the giant oil tankers. There are probably similar 
> economies of scale working in the trucking and rail industries.

Note that small truckers *can* make a profit. They just haul "small
lots". Any sort of bulk materials go by rail or ship. Ditto for large
shipments. But smaller lots (one or two containers worth) tend to go by
truck, or (for overseas shipping) by getting the container (trailer)
slipped into a free slot on a ship heading in the right direction.

The real money for small carriers is in carrying stuff to the smaller
cities/ports. The places that don't get enough shipping to *support*
big freighters or rail lines. 

The other way to make money with small ships is the FedEx model. It's
not that you are *cheap*, it's that you can get it there *fast*.

> I don't know if this is canon or not, but I would hereby suggest that most 
> cargo shipping in the imperium is NOT by small 200 ton free or far 
> traders. This forces anyone operating such a small vessel to either 
> engage in speculative trading, or to try and get hired for "special" 
> cargoes aka adventures!

Special cargoes don't have to be adventures. They can, however,
position you for adventures. 

To use a modern example, if a trucker contracts to carry a load to one
of the small towns in Central Oregon, he's going to charge you a lot
extra because the odds are he'll have to "deadhead" back with an empty
trailer. If you *can* arrange a return cargo, that'll lower the price.
But only if it's guaranteed and worth his while.

The same goes for the owner of a small ship hired to haul a odd lot
cargo to some obscure port. You pay extra for the lack of a return
cargo.

Of course, the standard contract for such will be written so that the
hauler gets to keep the "deadhead" fee even if he *does* locate a
return cargo. :-)

> Any thoughts? Would anyone like to try and devise a 5000 ton bulk 
> freighter and determine if the cost per ton  of cargo is actually lower 
> (I'll give it a try this weekend if no one else does).

5000 ton sounds a bit small. And "specialized" bulk haulers *will* be
cheaper. Modern equivalents: grain ships and barges. Oil tankers, LNG
tankers, sulfur tankers, some ore carriers.

And big containerized cargo ships make a difference too.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:28:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Yugobox J2 Far Trader

Bruce Johnson writes:
> Subject: YugoBox Jump 2 Far Trader for THUDD
> 
> This is a strictly freight hauling version:
> 
> YugoBox J2 Far Trader (QSDS 1.5)
> 
> Tons: 200 Std (Box S)  Volume: 2800 m^3           Cost: 57.8 MCr
> Crew: 2                High/Mid Pass: 0/2         Low: 0
> Cargo: 115.5 Std       Controls: Std Civ.         TL: 12
> 
> 8 Size                 2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
>                        1 Maneuver (Thruster)
>                        1.3 Power Plant (10+20+100 MW)
>                        41 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 3)
>                        A1 P3 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
>                        0 Armor, 6 Structure
> 
> Crew Detail: Max Crew:4 (1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer, 1 Sensor)
>              Typical: 2 (1 Pilot/Navigator 1 Engineering/Electronics)
> 
>This is about as cheap a 200dt ship as you can make in QSDS at TL 12...
  
> Here's my take on YugoBox economics:
> 		
>Total cost:	57.8 MCr
>Down Payment:	11.56 MCr		
> 			
>Monthly Mortgage:	0.241 MCr		
>Crew Salaries (2)	0.009		
>Life support		0.004		
>and maintenance	0.005		
>Fuel              	0         that's why we have scoops! (even though,
>at 3 dT/hour it'll take over 13 hours to purify a full fuel load...not
>exactly quick getaway time!)	

If you're scooping from a small Gas Giant it will take you roughly that long
to get out to the jump limit, so the fuel processing time won't add more
than a few hours. If you scoop from a large Gas Giant it won't add anything.
The problem is the time it takes you to get from the mainworld to the Gas
Giant. Unless the mainworld is a moon of the Gas Giant the time you lose 
will cost you far more than you gain because you won't be able to make your
25 jumps per year. So the true fuel cost is Cr100/T because you'll buy
unrefined fuel at the starport and refine it yourself. And that will take
place while you are sitting on the tarmac waiting for those !@#$%^&*()
suppliers to deliver your cargo, so you don't actually need more than a
125Mw power plant.

>Total monthly     	0.259 mCr	
> 			
>Cargo             	0.231  mCr/month
>(2 trips / month 115.5 dT cargo, 1000Cr/dT)
>Passengers              0.040 mCr/month
>(2 trips/month 2 mid passengers each time, though this would be a rather
>'roughing it' approach to star travel)
> 
>You can't break even. Not with just freight! With a full load of
>passengers each trip, you only make about 10,000 credits profit a trip.
>This wouldn't be economical at all, unless you could absolutely be sure of
>filling your hold and spare staterooms each and every run.

No. But a regular freighter can. If you jump steadily between two adjacent 
worlds and have regular freight contracts with shippers on each world so
that you can count on, say, being 90% full on each trip and on the freight
actually being ready to load when you arrive on the planet, then you can 
do 35 jumps per year, putting you in the black.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 97 12:57:32 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: High power, small plants

	
>Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:48:02 -0600 (CST)
>From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
>Subject: Re: Crew Size for CDB-1
>
>Mark Clark wrote:
>
>>   By the way, I noticed that some of the very small TL12 power plants
are
>> rated as using 0.0 crew.  I suppose one could reduce crew requirements
by
>> using a whole bunch of these instead of one big power plant - I just get
>> the picture of a ship with a whole bunch of portable generators wired in
>> series.
>
>Yeah.  For example, take a 2000 MW need.  You can go with either, 
>  A)  one hundred 20 MW plants, at zero crew
>  B)  ten 200 MW plants, at two crew
>  C)  one 2000 MW plant, at 1.7 crew.
>
>While most of the time this is discouraged by the rounding "errors" which
>result in bigger, pricier plants at the bottom of the table, I'd say that
>this deserves a clarification to avoid abuse.  I've been trying to "play
>fair" with this, by picking the biggest I can fit and working my way down
>to get the total I need, for the most part.  This is probably only a
>problem with the zero crew plants.
>
>  Steve Bonneville
>  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
>
>------------------------------
>

I don't know about this... it seems like a pretty abusive interpretation of
the rules to me.  I think I'd rule that a ship using a hundred 20 MW plants
instead of a single 2000 MW plant would actually require /more/ engineering
crew than the one with the larger plant, due to the need to constantly be
monitoring /every single flippin' micro-plant/ to make sure they're all
operating at optimum efficiency, and all are operating in phase with each
other.  A power spike or drop at one could seriously throw off the
calibration of the entire set.  And if one is operating out of phase, even
a little, it would reduce the total output of the set.

OTOH, a ship with banks of microplants would have more online redundancy
than one with a single high power plant, and probably would be able to cope
with damage to one of its plants (or anything else affecting output). 
Maybe the En crew required should be based on the /total/ output of ALL
plants rather than the individual output of EACH.

Does this sound reasonable?  Anyone have other interpretations?


Jeff
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:05:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements

Bruce Johnson writes:
>	These ships were intended, IMHO, form the start to be the
>prototypical PC-owned ship, and not as a major economic force in the
>Imperium, bound by the rules of High/Middle passage and 1kCr/T freight. As
>we've found, this sytem breaks when you try to apply these rules to small
>ships like this. Either small ships (and ships in general) are a LOT
>cheaper than the design systems would have them, or the trade that goes on
>in the Imperium is not like the rules state. 

It isn't small ships in general that needs to be cheaper. A 200 T ship can
be profitable provided it can make 35 jumps per year, which is, IMO, 
perfectly reasonable for regular ships. Granted, they can't compete with
large ships, but that just means that they have to fit in between the
cracks. A large ship isn't profitable if the world it runs to dosen't
generate enough freight to fill its holds. So small regular freighters
and passenger liners are perfectly reasonable as long as they go to and 
from low and perhaps medium-population planets.

That dosen't help the typical PC-run Free Trader, of course, because the
Free Trader can't manage more than 25 jumps per year. So the ship's that
need to be cheaper are the PC-run ships. Now, take a look at this:

_________________________________________________________________________
|									|
| TRADERS! ARE YOU TIRED OF FRETTING AND SLAVING, DESPERATELY TRYING TO |
| MAKE THE PAYMENTS ON YOUR EXPENSIVE NEW SHIP?				|
|									|
| Take for example the captain who has bought a brand new Type A2 Far 	|
| Trader. He now has a ship capable of carrying 6 high or middle 	|
| passengers, 10 low passengers, and between 83.2 and 89.2 displacement |
| tons of cargo space, depending on the number of high passengers that  |
| take advantage of their 1 T of cargo space. The absolute maximum he   |
| can make per trip without a further investment in speculative trade   |
| is Cr159,200 per jump or Cr3,980,000 per year. His yearly expenses    |
| are salaries (ca. 192,000), life support (Cr525,000), maintenance     |
| (Cr49,800), fuel (Cr250,000), port fees (Cr2,500), and bank payments  |
| (Cr2,490,000). If he also wants a reasonable return on the MCr9.96 he |
| himself has invested, he has to earn another Cr622,500 (otherwise he  |
| would have been better off investing his money in someone else's 	|
| ship!). All this gives a grand total of Cr4,131,800 for a net loss of |
| Cr151,800. And this is provided the ship is filled 100% on each trip. |
|									|
| Fear not! Lupe Hole & Rool Lawyerz' Used Starship Dealership has the  |
| answer!								|
| Buy an old ship! A 40 year old starship is worth only 25% of its 	|
| original price. Operating expenses are the same and the maintenance	|
| costs, risk of misjumps and risk of breakdowns are exactly the same!	|
| With a down payment of MCr2,49 you get a veritable money machine.     |
| Most expenses stay the same, but bank payments are reduced to 	|
| Cr622,500 per year. To get a decent return on your MCr2,49 all you    |
| need is to fill your ship about 45% on each trip. If you get anything |
| approaching 80-90% utilization you can save up for the down payment   |
| on another ship in a couple of years. Absolutely the best investment  |
| going! Don't delay! Invest before your neighbor catches on!		|
|_______________________________________________________________________|

OK, the problem with the above is of course that if a 40 year old ship isn't
worse in some way than a brand new one, why is it worth so much less? The
answer is that it IS worse. The risk of breakdowns are greater. A 40 year
old starship can make a lot of money PROVIDED nothing breaks down. If a
free trader is lucky he can make a lot of money. If he is unlucky his jump
drive will break down and maybe cost him enough in repairs to drive him into
bankruptcy.

So what we need are either detailed rules for malfunctions or a simple rule
that tells the Referee to impose a malfunction whenever the PCs gets too
much money... 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:10:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: [none]

subscribe traveller

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:53:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: SSDS armour figuring

Hi.

> From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>

> In SSDS i believe you take this number and use the USP conversion chart
> to get the T4 armour.  

Yes and no. You take the armor factor, use the USP (or is it USD) chart,
AND THEN you multiply the result by 10 to get the T4 USP armor rating.

Is this simple and obvious? No. Is it explained anywhere in the text?
No. Is the complexity of this system really necessary? ...

Good thing we have all these tables to make life simple for people who
don't like to use equations. 8^)

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:00:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: THUDD & Cargo Costs

First off, is everyone else getting a random selection of the last few day's
TMLs in their mailbox?

Anyway, by this point we've all seen that the classic freight-based far 
trader which hauls lots of cargo (for its size) and a few passengers is 
not profitable and never was.  Small passenger liners do fine, but 1,000 
Cr/ton doesn't work for small ships.

I see two answers: 

1) there are no freighters under 800 tons, the only small commercial 
ships carry passengers.

2) Cargo costs need to be changed

3) Bulk carriers have the freight trade all sewed up and small freighters
are left making a living on speculative trade.

IMHO 1 is dull, from what I've heard here, nearly everyone else here loves
tramp freighter campaigns as much as I do.

2 could work if we go with the 4,000 Cr/ton found on page 97 of T4 the 
situation totally turns around.  Then again, at 4,000 a ship with a 40% 
full cargo hold is still paying expenses and making a handy profit.  If 
we want to change this I'd go with 2,000 Cr/ton.  Higher than that will 
make it too easy on the PCs

3 is the way it stands now, and it does make some sense.  However, I'd
also like some additions for freight too.  One rule I'd like to see is
that the 1,000 Cr/ton only applies to cargo originating from a Class A, B
(and possibly C) starport.  As I see it, the bulk carriers control the
class A & B trade.  However, on the fringes many Class D starport may only
get merchant ships dropping by 4-6 times a year.  The 1,000 Cr/ton looks a
little unlikely at that point. 

If we want imperial trade mandates governing such trade, may be the rules 
could be:

1,000 Cr/ton for cargo originating at a Class A or B starport

1,500 Cr/ton at Class C Starports, and 2,000 Cr/ton at Class D starports

Comments?


- -John R. Snead

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:35:24 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re YugoBox SSDS vs QSDS calculations

Hi Bruce, 

>
>System	Cargo dT	Power Req (Installed)	Cost (after discount)
>QSDS	115.5		128 (130)		77.1 (57.8)
>SSDS	110		81 (100)		62.04 (55.8)
>
^^^^^^

Do ships designed with SSDS get a discount? I thought only ships that were
100% QSDS qualified for discount as a modular "standard design"?


**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"All Our Cargo is Carry-On" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:58:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: Re: ISBA Membership

>Second to those of you who joined we  sent out an email to you last 
>night If you did not get the dinner invit please email me. We know a 
>few of you did not but stupid me trashed the bad returns so I  dont 
>have your names.

Err...I didn't get one.

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/peter/
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 16:20:22 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: 1/2 Die

On 02/15/97 at 11:14 PM,  Scott <bear.garden@c031.aone.net.au> said:

> If you are like me and hate rolling a d6 as a d3 (dividing by 2 is really
> hard)
> you can buy auto fire die for warhammer they are numbered from 1-3 with
> one 3 being a lightening bolt. I find it much easier than counting on my
> fingers under the table.

I went down to the local craft store (Michael's) and bought some 3/8"
(actually 10 cm) wooden cubes. Then I simply inked 1, 2 and 3 on them. They
roll fairly (as far as I can tell), they cost me something like 6 cents
each, and if I find a problem with the ink wearing off (I haven't so far)
I'll gesso, re-ink, and spray a clear coat over them.

Making my own means I can make up speciality dice, like the -1, 0, 1 dice I
use during character generation. Yes, I know those are fudge dice. <G>


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:45:23 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

My far trader design can make a profit on Cr1000 per ton of cargo

So there....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:44:12 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

Andrew Boulton wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <l03010d01af2983e9be93@[198.70.218.38]>
> 
> > >B5 is totally different to any other SF series. Characters evolve, and
> > >our perceptions of them change.
> > Voyager is also doing similar (but not as intense) character growth and
> > relationship development.
> 
> We're only half way through series 1...I haven't noticed any yet.

I haven't see any character development but I do have to admit I have seen the shabbiest 
science in any science fiction series short of Lost in Space (crack in the singularity, yeah, 
right...)

And what is with the standing really close thing..everybody stands about a half a foot from 
someone they are talking to

But I digress, this is a Traveller list, not a slam the weeniest Trek yet list

Would anyone be interested in a history of the development of the Vargr Ueknou class 
corsair from TL 9 to TL F? (includes a design from each TL too!)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:16:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Starship Design System Conversion

  Hi.
  
  Well, I've been promising for a long time to post some rules for the
  conversion of High Guard USP's to T4 USP's.  The advantages to using
  High Guard (and Book 2) to design starships are:
  
  1) it's easier than any of the methods currently in print;
  
  2) you can actually easily design ships that are compatable in price
  and capability with the ships listed in the T4 rulebook.
  
  I've been lobbying for a HG-like ship design system for nearly a year
  now. If you ever plan to resurrect High Guard (or anything like it),
  Marc, feel free to use this system or any system based on or inspired
  by it. It's all yours.
  
  These rules are not yet complete (two items have yet to be finished:
  meson screens and repulsers), but I figured I'd go ahead and post what
  I had. Please, please, please send me lots of advice and criticism.
  
  Coming soon to a post near you: T4 USP's for:
          Type A Free Trader
          Type A2 Far Trader
          Type R Subsidized Merchant
          Type S Scout Courier
          Type Y Yacht
          The Patrol Cruiser
          The Mercenary Cruiser
          The Lab Ship
          The Safari Ship
          Ad Astra class Liners
          Kinunir class Battle Cruisers
          Unicorn class Close Escorts
          The Gunned Gig
          The Transport Pinnace
          Lightning class Cruisers
          Rampart class Fighters
          The Armed Launch
          The Fuel Shuttle
          Zhodani Shiva class Patol Frigates
          The Rock
          The Pebble
          Leviathan class Merchant Cruisers
  
  ---     ---     ---     ---     ---     ---     ---
  
  Converting from High Guard USP's to the new USP's in Marc Miller's
  Traveller.
  
TONS    ---
  
  The T4 tonnage is the same as the HG tonnage. Take the Tonnage USP
  value directly from the HG USP.
  
  For the hull type, use the following table to go from the HG
  configuration USP to the T4 USP:
  
  HG USP          T4 USP
  ------          ------
  1               Needle/AF
  2               Wedge/AF
  3               Cylinder/SL
  4               Box/SL
  5               Shere/SL
  6               Dome/SL
  7               Close Structure/No SL
  8               Planetoid/No SL
  9               Planetoid/No SL
  
VOLUME  ---
  
  Volume is equal to tonnage times 14. V = 14 * T.
  
COST IN MCR     ---
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
CREW    ---
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
PASSENGERS HIGH/MEDIUM  ---
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
PASSENGERS LOW  ---
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
CARGO   ---
  
  Should be listed in tons; same for T4 as in HG.  If you list it in
  cubic meters instead, then multiply the HG USP for cargo by 14 to get
  the T4 USP.
  
CONTROLS        ---
  
  For starships, Mil Std/Bridge. For small craft, Mil Std or Mil
  Std/Bridge if you include a small craft bridge. If the HG computer USP
  is A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H or J, then add "/fib" to the T4 USP.
  
TECH LEVEL      ---
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
SIZE RATING     ---
  
  Use the table below to convert from the HG USP size rating to the T4
  USP:
  
  HG size USP     T4 size USP
  -----------     -----------
  0               7
  1-9             8
  A-J             9
  K-Q             10
  Q-X             11
  Y               12
  
JUMP RATING     ---
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
G RATING THRUSTER PLATES
  
  Same for T4 as in HG.
  
POWER PLANT RATING
  
  Same for T4 as in HG. To get the power plant rating in MW, multiply
  the power-plant USP by the ship's tonnage, and multiply that by 2.5.
  Power in MW = 2.5 * Tonnage * PP.
  
FIRE CONTROL RATING and SENSOR RATINGS
  
  I suggest getting these from the HG "computer" USP using the following
  table:
  
  HG computer USP T4 fire control USP     T4 Sensor USP's
                                           A       P       J
  --------------- ------------------      ---     ---     ---
  0               0                       0       0       0
  1               1                       2       2       2
  2               2                       4       4       4
  3               3                       6       6       6
  4               4                       8       8       8
  5               5                       10      10      10
  6               6                       12      12      12
  7               7                       14      14      14
  8               8                       16      16      16
  9               9                       18      18      18
  A               1                       2       2       4
  B               2                       4       4       8
  C               3                       6       6       12
  D               4                       8       8       16
  E               5                       10      10      20
  F               6                       12      12      24
  G               7                       14      14      28
  H               8                       16      16      32
  J               9                       18      18      36
  R               1                       2       4       2
  S               2                       4       8       4
    
ARMOR   ---
  
  I show below two versions of HG-to-T4 armor conversion. The first is
  from the following official sources: HG to Striker, then Striker to
  FFS. But the conversion from HG to Striker, while official, is also
  very arbitrary. So I have substituted the arbitrary HG-Striker
  conversion with my own arbitrary and easy HG-T4 direct conversion.
  
  HG USP  Official T4 conversion  Easy T4 conversion
  -- ---  -------- -- ----------  ---- -- ----------
  0       17                      0
  1       23                      10
  2       26                      20
  3       30                      30
  4       34                      40
  5       38                      50
  6       44                      60
  7       47                      70
  8       50                      80
  9       54                      90
  10      58                      100
  11      61                      110
  12      65                      120
  13      69                      130
  14      74                      140
  15      79                      150
  16      82                      160
  17      85                      170
  18      88                      180
  19      92                      190
  20      95                      200
  21      99                      210
  
STRUCTURE ---
  
  Get the T4 structure USP from the HG tonnage using the following
  table:
  
  HG tonnage      T4 structure USP
  -- -------      -- --------- ---
  0+              0
  3+              1
  7+              2
  13+             3
  20+             4
  27+             5
  33+             6
  42+             7
  50+             8
  67+             9
  83+             10
  125+            11
  167+            12
  208+            13
  250+            14
  292+            15
  333+            16
  417+            17
  500+            18
  583+            19
  667+            20
  750+            21
  833+            22
  1,000+          23
  1,167+          24
  1,333+          25
  1,500+          26
  1,667+          27
  1,833+          28
  2,167+          29
  2,500+          30
  2,833+          31
  3,167+          32
  3,500+          33
  3,833+          34
  4,500+          35
  5,167+          36
  5,833+          37
  6,500+          38
  7,167+          39
  7,833+          40
  9,167+          41
  10,500+         42
  11,833+         43
  13,167+         44
  14,500+         45
  15,833+         46
  18,500+         47
  21,167+         48
  23,833+         49
  26,500+         50
  29,167+         51
  31,833+         52
  37,167+         53
  42,500+         54
  47,833+         55
  53,167+         56
  58,500+         57
  63,833+         58
  74,500+         59
  85,167+         60
  95,833+         61
  106,500+        62
  117,167+        63
  127,833+        64
  149,167+        65
  170,500+        66
  191,833+        67
  213,167+        68
  234,500+        69
  255,833+        70
  298,500+        71
  341,167+        72
  383,833+        73
  426,500+        74
  469,167+        75
  511,833+        76
  597,167+        77
  682,500+        78
  767,833+        79
  853,167+        80
  938,500+        81
  
LASER BATTERIES ---
  
  Use the table below to convert from HG laser-battery USP's to T4
  laser-battery USP's. Two T4 laser-battery USP's are given, one for
  beam lasers and another for pulse lasers.
  
  HG USP  Pulse Lasers    Beam Lasers
  ------  ------------    -----------
  1       2-1-0-0         1-1-1-1
  2       3-1-0-0         2-2-2-2
  3       4-2-1-0         3-3-3-3
  4       5-2-1-0         4-4-4-4
  5       6-3-1-0         5-5-5-5
  6       7-3-1-0         6-6-6-6
  7       8-4-2-1         7-7-7-7
  8       9=4=2=1         8-8-8-8
  9       10-5-2-1        9-9-9-9
  
PLASMA and FUSION GUN BATTERIES ---
  
  Use the table below to convert HG plasma or fusion gun batteries to T4
  battery USP's:
  
  HG USP  T4 USP
  ------  ------
  1       3-0-0-0
  2       4-0-0-0
  3       5-0-0-0
  4       6-0-0-0
  5       7-0-0-0
  6       8-0-0-0
  7       9-0-0-0
  8       10-0-0-0
  9       11-0-0-0
  
MESON GUNS and PARTICLE ACCELLERATORS   ---
  
  Use the table below to convert HG USP's to the T4 battery USP's for
  meson guns and particle accelerators. These conversions were made by
  using the relationship between the HG size USP's, which are linked to
  weapon USP's, and the the T4 structure points.
  
  HG USP  Meson Gun       Particle Accelerator
  ------  ---------       --------------------
  1       1-0-0-0         1-1-1-1
  2       2-0-0-0         2-2-2-2
  3       3-1-0-0         3-3-3-3
  4       4-2-0-0         4-4-4-4
  5       5-3-1-0         5-5-5-5
  6       6-4-2-0         6-6-6-6
  7       7-5-3-1         7-7-7-7
  8       8-6-4-2         8-8-8-8
  9       9-7-5-3         9-9-9-9
  A       13-10-7-5       13-13-13-13
  B       19-16-13-10     19-19-19-19
  C       24-21-18-15     24-24-24-24
  D       25-22-19-16     25-25-25-25
  E       26-23-20-17     26-26-26-26
  F       28-25-22-19     28-28-28-28
  G       29-26-23-20     29-29-29-29
  H       29-27-24-21     29-29-29-29
  J       31-28-25-22     31-31-31-31
  K       32-29-26-23     32-32-32-32
  L       38-35-32-29     38-38-38-38
  M       42-39-36-33     42-42-42-42
  N       44-41-38-35     44-44-44-44
  P       46-43-40-37     46-46-46-46
  Q       50-47-44-41     50-50-50-50
  R       52-49-46-43     52-52-52-52
  S       58-55-52-49     58-58-58-58
  T       62-59-56-53     62-62-62-62
  
SANDCASTER BATTERIES    ---
  
  Use the table below to convert from the HG USP to the T4 USP. The T4
  USP is given for 3 tech levels.
  
  HG USP  TL-7    TL-8    TL-10
  -- ---  -- -    -- -    -- --
  0       0       0       0
  1       1       -       -
  2       3       1       -
  3       6       3       1
  4       8       6       3
  5       10      8       6
  6       20      10      8
  7       30      20      10
  8       -       30      20
  9       -       -       30
  
MISSILE BATTERIES       ---
  
  Use the table below to get the number of missiles that can be
  controlled in flight by a battery at any one time from the HG USP
  factor. Two columns are given for 2 different tech levels.
  
  HG USP  TL-7    TL-13
  -- ---  -- -    -- --
  0       0       0
  1       1       -
  2       3       1
  3       6       3
  4       12      6
  5       18      12
  6       30      18
  7       60      30
  8       120     60
  9       180     120
  
FORCE FIELDS    ---
  
  The flicker rate of the black globe is equal to the HG force-field USP
  time 10%.
  
NUCLEAR DAMPERS ---
  
  Set the T4 USD equal to the HG USP plus 1.
  


And now for the two remaining problems:


REPULSOR BATTERIES      ---
  
  I do not know how repulsors are handled in T4. Despite a cryptic
  reference on page 72 of "Starships", there is no table of them that I
  can find.
  
MESON SCREENS   ---
  
  I do not know how meson screens are handled in T4. Despite a cryptic
  reference on page 75 of "Starships", there is no USP value in the
  table on p100 that I can find.
  
  
  
  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #953
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 16 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 954



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

ISBA? I vote NAY
T4 groans
Re: High power, small plants
B5 vs BG vs Trav
T4 Gripes (more)
Re: fuel use in microjumps?
Re: Crew requirements
Re: Power Plants
Re: Technical School
New SSDS tool (Java) - Starship Assembly Line
Questions about SSDS (Official answers requested)
Re: ISBA? I vote NAY
Re: Re: THUDD: Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader
ISBA PBEM Controvesy
Echo Lines initial press release
Re: M0 and First Survey are out!
New Planet Evolution Theories (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:01:17 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: ISBA? I vote NAY

Please, move ISBA OFF TML.
<IMNSHO>
 It is a PBEM, it is pure B_LLS__T AFAI care, and it takes almost 50% of my
d/l time. It has it's place, yes, but it is of limited to no interest for
myself, and obviously a few others.
</IMNSHO>


William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:56:13 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: T4 groans

>
>> 3) after applying difficulty fix, chances were too huigh for both success
> and crit-fail.
>
>Again, try my system.  Its easy.  It is a deriviative from the T4
>basic system, and it works.
>
That was one of the 5 "fixes" I have tried. Sorry, but I my feelings stand.
I will Never again use T4 for more than just a reference; I return to Mega.
My players want me to return to Mega, with a few fixes.

Again, my task-fix was put forward as a return to MT's basic concepts;
concepts I grew enamored with over years of Traveller:2300/2300AD and MT
GMing.

I feel it better to have surplus detail to drop than not enough detail and
having to wing it.

Then again, MT keeps showing up in used bookstores locally. Steady supply.
No DGP stuff is being traded to them, though... I wonder why? [NOT!!!]
Something I have yet to see from IG: Production Quality.



William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:53:17 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: High power, small plants

odysseus@novia.net wrote:
> I don't know about this... it seems like a pretty abusive interpretation of
> the rules to me.  I think I'd rule that a ship using a hundred 20 MW plants
> instead of a single 2000 MW plant would actually require /more/ engineering
> crew than the one with the larger plant, due to the need to constantly be
> monitoring /every single flippin' micro-plant/ to make sure they're all
> operating at optimum efficiency, and all are operating in phase with each
> other.  A power spike or drop at one could seriously throw off the
> calibration of the entire set.  And if one is operating out of phase, even
> a little, it would reduce the total output of the set.

sort of like running a warning light panel with Christmas light wiring (AAAAAAH, quick 
start replacing bulbs fast, we have to find out what system is about to blow!)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:49:16 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: B5 vs BG vs Trav

>> >B5 is totally different to any other SF series. Characters evolve, and
>> >our perceptions of them change.
>>
>> Not so! _Battlestar: Galactica_ was very much linear over the course of the
>> show (excluding the horrible revival _BG:1980_). Characters and villains
>> grew, their relationships changed, they matured, and even died.
>
>You are actually comparing Battlestar Galactica to Babylon 5?  You
>must be joking.
>
>I liked Battlestar as a kid, but it doesn't even rate with the likes
>of B5.
>

Both shows were linear plot through run, both were very high production
quality for their era, both were epic plots that are above and beyond the
scope I run RPG's in, especially traveller, and both have provided me with
tons of plot-inspirations for traveler adventures.

Yes, Kenneth, I do compare them; they both served the same niche in the
industry... different eras, but same niche.

BTW, did you know that every switch on the BG Bridge set did SOMETHING?
That set was a monster, according to everything I have read. Serveral
aritcles were published about how "realistic" the set was, including
inverviews: one of Terry somebody (Col Tigh), and another of the guy who
played the sensor chief.

One thing I have noticed about BG vs B5, ST, STTNG, DS9, and Voyager:
crewmen actually appear to make things happen on BG, even in the
background. On the others, they tend to look like they are just standing
around waiting for stuff to happen.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:49:38 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: T4 Gripes (more)

keep asking which task-system fixes I have tried with t4:
Method 1: double skill, half att: player rebleeion at division and
multiplication

Method 2: 1.5/2/2.5/3/4/5 dice method: Still too easy, and CF became more
common.

Method 3: 1.5/2/3/4/5/6 dice method: same.

Method 4: Eris method: vetoed by general mention of the additional steps by
players.

Method 5: 2/3/4/6/8 dice method: Much worse than method 2, but finally hit
difficulties based upon exibited skill levels in the campaign.

CGen vs Play: the campaign covered 6 months real time, PC's aged 1.5 years,
all PC's gained 7+ levels during play, at 1-2 rolls per session, 3 if they
really impressed me. Most PC's had 2 or 3 attributes in the 10+ range, and
several had primary skills in excess of 8, at start!  Heck, I had a Scout
with Equestrian 4, and NO other non-ship/non-ship-crew skills.

CGen method used: 12d6 for attributes, place 2d per attribute after all 12d
rolled. Pick table, roll skill from table. Multiple careers allowed.
Background skills totally rolled.

Everyone quickly learned that Jack-O-A-T was the next best thing to
actually being skilled in EVERYTHING.

Everyone liked the new psionics system, and the additions I created worked
well. I'll re-post those if asked.

My group was not overly enamored with the new aging rules, but not overly
bothered. It would have been easier to hand them a table, but I was lazy. I
still prefer CT/MT aging.

1/2 Dice: Everyone in the group seemerd to think that they were a nuissance
at best. No-one strenuosuly objected to them, but all were unhappy with
them.

Combat System: the 3d limit is lame; it makes the average fire-fight with
.45 ACP, .454 Casul, and .357 mag all about the same; every gun larger than
a 357 will do limit to unarmored targets (the most common type). Makes
Rifels less intimidating, too. Again, I shall return to Mega, where a .22
can kill Mr FFF227 with a good enough hit, and a 357 will normally drop Joe
777777.

Pools: I can see the use for the pools, CT, MT, T4 all have pools of one
kind or another. I like Pools from T4, and like MT's Tactical pool. TNE has
the best Initiative system IMNSHO.

QSDS and SSDS: as the ammount of confusion grows on the list, and it
becomes discovered that they aren't as good as they first seemed, I point
out again that MT had an all-in-1 system for vehicles through starcraft.

T4 Ship Combat: Plain stinks. 'nuff said.

MM's Autograph: Second Best thing about T4, as far as I am concerned.

M0 and TL12 limit in the books: Well, T4 SHURE AIN'T GENERIC ENOUGH. I had
to rely upon CT and MT sources for ships and equipment, as ships couldn't
be designed adequately for my needs with QSDS, and SSDS I found WORSE than
FF&S due to poor wordings and layout. The newer version shure looks
cleaner. But I still need up to TL 17 as a regular component... Yaskodray
didn't get ALL of his grandchildren in my campaings (Ahh, the fun I had
with Yaskodrits).

And overall, I feel the whole feel of the t4 amalgam is not to MY liking.
Except the new psionics. I've tried T4, and it DID NOT WORK FOR ME. or my
player group.  I will await T5... and try to glean what usefull ideas I
find as long as I can from TC, DS, JTAS and TML.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:41:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: fuel use in microjumps?

> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 18:06 GMT
> From: walker@esc.cam.ac.uk (Greg Walker)
> 
> how much fuel is used in the microjump? The normal fuel/distance implies practically zero as I understand it.
> No, I don't want to reopen the debate on what the fuel is used for.

Canon says that a J-0 uses precisely as much fuel as a J-1; for T4, 10% of
the ship volume.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:39:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements

> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:41:36 -0700 (MST)
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>

[re; My comments on full-crew requirements for small ships]

> 	I think that Craig's dilemma here hits squarely on the role of the
> far/free trader in the Traveller Universe.  Simply put, I don't see dinky
> little ships like these providing the typical 'High Passage' kind of
> service at all...they're too small, and as Craig found out, soon need to
> have way too many crew members. The same holds for all the armament that's
> typically put on these things. 

Exactly.  How often does a business executive who needs to fly from LA to
Tokyo wander down to the airport and start haggling with second-string
air-freight operations who might have a spare seat?  High passengers as
Traveller defines the term will *always* ride scheduled, large liners.  I
mean, seriously:  If, for the same price, you can ride a nice comfy liner
for a week, or trust yourself to a crappy little freighter that smells
like old gym socks and has a crew that looks like they'd be pirates if
they could afford a better laser...which would *you* choose?

> 	I have always seen the far trader as offering nothing more than
> middle passage, actually, sort of like hitching a ride with a coastal
> freighter. You job as passenger is to stay out of the way of the crew when
> they're working, and if you want to eat, you go eat in the galley when the
> crew eats...none of this 'Love Boat' servant stuff

Precisely!  Small traders have to find economic niches that aren't
serviced by either larger passenger or larger freight operations --
because going head-to-head against either, they'll lose bigtime.  You
don't see many tramp steamers hauling Toyota parts into LA, for example.
The small traders will make their money from:

People who...

1) Absolutely need to leave *right* *now*.
2) Prefer not to run up against 'officialdom' on the trip.
3) Need to go somewhere the liners or other scheduled services don't go.
4) Want to have an 'adventure'.

Cargo which...

1) Needs to leave *right* *now*.
2) Is illegal or must be sent covertly.
3) Needs to go somewhere the regular freighters don't go.

And that's about it.  There's not way in the world you're going to win in
a far trader doing jumps between settled, high-tech worlds with frequent
scheduled service as your competition.

> 	Of course, this will vary depending on the roles played by the
> PC's or NPC's who are the passengers on these things, but, I don't think
> these small ships fit into the standardized shipping/passenger model we've
> been trying to shoehorn them into. They are speculative trading/casual
> charter craft, and that's all. They don't get the 1000 cr/ton shipping
> traffic, that's what the 10,000 ton container ships are for; they don't
> get High passage customers...they go on Liners, not Far Traders! Heck,
> I'll bet they have a hard time convincing people to pay Middle passage...

If we want to (mostly) save canon economics in this regard, we can always
say that the prices given are what's typically paid for freight and
passengers meeting the conditions above.  In other words, High Passage on
a tramp far trader is 10,000, but on a 1000-ton scheduled liner it might
be 20,000.  Ditto for cargo, perhaps going to 2,000 on a scheduled
freighter.  The cost decrease is due to lack of in-flight service, safety
equipment, insurance, bonding, and so forth.  Since almost all PC ships
will be in this category, this does minimal violence to cannon while
explaining how tramp traders ever get a passenger or ton of cargo on milk
runs.

Of course, it's still the case that tramp traders will do far better
looking for special/speculative cargoes and particularly desperate
passengers, and by getting off the beaten path (read: adventure hooks),
but at least this way ships can reasonably expect to continue making
payments on the ship and keep hydrogen in the tanks while traversing
civilized space.

> 	These ships were intended, IMHO, form the start to be the
> prototypical PC-owned ship, and not as a major economic force in the
> Imperium, bound by the rules of High/Middle passage and 1kCr/T freight. As
> we've found, this sytem breaks when you try to apply these rules to small
> ships like this. Either small ships (and ships in general) are a LOT
> cheaper than the design systems would have them, or the trade that goes on
> in the Imperium is not like the rules state. 

The rules are heavily slanted toward what PCs will encounter.  I think you
could drop in my rules mod above without breaking the quietly underlying
'real' trade economics.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:38:51 -0500
From: Hugh Johnson <ratling@csrlink.net>
Subject: Re: Power Plants

 By the way, I noticed that some of the very small TL12 power plants
are
>> rated as using 0.0 crew.  I suppose one could reduce crew requirements
by
>> using a whole bunch of these instead of one big power plant - I just get
>> the picture of a ship with a whole bunch of portable generators wired in
>> series.

        This idea has some good points and some bad points.  The bad points
would be that when devices are wired in series and you lose one then they
all go down.  Remember those annoying strings of Christmas lights where one
light goes out and they all go out?  I would hate to be the engineer that
has to go through a hundred power plants to find the faulty one.  You could
get around this by wiring them in parallel.  Another consideration would be
the loss of  power from voltage drop for every device that you send power
through.  If you have the first power plant  providing power to the second
plant and the second providing power to the third and so on  then you would
lose power through each power plant due to resistance. However  I may be
mistaken about this in this.  Also due to the need for additional cable
connections, safety interlocks, controls and other protective devices I
would believe that the total cost and volume of the system should be more
than a single large power plant.
        A good point is that quick repairs for a parallel wired power system
would be easier.  If one power plant is damaged during battle then that
power plant could be repaired while the others continue to power the ship.
I would believe that in the future systems would be modular construction.  I
once saw a program where military tanks and attack helicopters use a modular
electronics system.  If one system is damaged a box is removed and another
replaced.  That was several years ago so I could be mistaken about that also. 
        The old hermit will now reenter his small hovel, please pay no
attention to his ramblings.


Hugh Johnson, the astronomically challenged.

ratling@csrlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:18:45 -0500
From: James Garriss <jpg@langley.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Technical School

At 10:52 PM 2/13/97 -0600, you wrote:
>On 02/13/97 at 05:03 PM,  Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es> said:
>
>>         One of the most important characteristics of the Geonee culture
>> is the great importance they place on technology. So, when creating
>> Geonee characters, this must be reflected with the possibility to pursue
>> a purely technical career and/or attending technical studies. So, I
>> created The Technical School, The Technical Academy and The Technician
>> Character Template.
>
>Carlos, one of the first additions I plan to make to the Advanced Education
>process is a 2 year Technical School.  As the rules are now, College is
>more academic-oriented than hands-on technical.  I think we really need
>some sort of Tech School that focuses just on technical skills.

Note that Darryl Adams has already created a Technical School and posted it
to TML.  I captured it and placed it on my homepage.

  http://www.cs.odu.edu/~garriss/t4/career.htm#TechSchool

Enjoy!

  James Garriss          |  Counter Genocide
  jpg@langley.mitre.org  |  A Traveller Story in Progress
                         |  http://www.cs.odu.edu/~garriss/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 14:55:15 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: New SSDS tool (Java) - Starship Assembly Line

Hello everybody,

  I have just finished my latest Java creation.


              The Starship Assembly Line


  This product is a purpose built Java program to allow you to design
Traveller starships using SSDS without a calculator, pen or paper.


LOCATION

  http://www.spirit.net.au/~jamesd/Trav

FEATURES

  - Does ALL of the SSDS calcualtions for you.
  - Produces a full USP in Wildstar's new layout and design worksheet,
    in either Text or HTML format.
  - Output can be either saved, if running locally, or emailed to you
    if using running from my web-page.
  - All of the SSDS data and tables are either built in or available to
    view and select from.
  - May be downloaded for faster more efficient running.
  - Weapons and Electronics are containined in user-configurable data
    files. Utilities are provided for maintaining these data files.
  - Runs on any Java capable machine or web-browser.

SUPPORT

   I am happy to answer any questions, fix any bugs and discuss any
  features which you would like to see, but are not present.


  Thats about it - have a look, try it out and tell me what you think.

bye,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 11:49:14 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: Questions about SSDS (Official answers requested)

Hello,

  Whilst working on my StarShip Assembly line program (see the other 
message from me), and designing my THUDD entry, I came across a couple
of problems.

  On page 74, the calculation of engineers for drives mentions using both
mass and volume for the base figure. Which of these should it be? My
preference would be for volume, as this is much smaller than the mass.

  The table of Fuel Purification Plants (TL12) starts at a 20 displacement
ton monster. For your average Far Trader this is uneconomical. Are there
any restraints to us coming up with a smaller version, say 5 or 10 ton,
based on the original FFS formulae and calling this an SSDS component also?

Thanks,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:58:10 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: ISBA? I vote NAY

William F. Hostman wrote:
> 
> Please, move ISBA OFF TML.
> <IMNSHO>
>  It is a PBEM, it is pure B_LLS__T AFAI care, and it takes almost 50% of my
> d/l time. It has it's place, yes, but it is of limited to no interest for
> myself, and obviously a few others.
> </IMNSHO>

If you don't want it here, just say so...stop beating around the bush

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:56:08 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Re: THUDD: Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>George Herbert wrote:
>> TK-108 Far Trader
>[...]
>> Hull: 200 ton Disk S, 2-G max, 10 arm, 9 struct, 189.6 Std useful,
>> 	54.6MW, MCr8.8
>> Jump: J-2, 6 std (+40 t fuel), MCr25.2, 0.2 eng crew
>> Maneuv: 1-G HEPLAR, 1 std, 140MW, MCr0.1, 5t fuel (40 hrs)
>> Controls: Std civ, 1.7 tons, 1.3MW, MCr9.2
>> Sensor: Improved, 0.3t, 12.6MW, MCr7.4, 0.4 elec crew, A2P3J0
>> Commo: Improved, 0.0t, 10.6MW, MCr0.3, 0.4 elec crew
>> Weaps: 2 26MW input civ turrets, 6.0t, 53.4MW, MCr2.8, USP (0) 1/2-0-0-0
>> Crew: 1 eng 1 elec 2 maneuv 2 gnr 1 cmd 1 steward 1 medic (9 total)
>> 	7 workstations, 3.5t, MCr0.014 (no bridge req)
>> Quarters: 1 small 1 large staterooms for Crew (20t, MCr0.42)
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>That had better be a really large stateroom...you have something like 7 or
>8 people living in it ;-)

Transcribo from notepad to computer.  That's 8 small staterooms
for the Crew (as the cost and tons indicate, if you check...)

>> 	10 large staterooms for passengers (40t, MCr1.0)
>> Cargo: 53.4t remaining: 53t std cargo, 0.4t ships locker
>> Cost: MCr82.734 std, 62.0505 w/QSDS discount (62.1)
>
>Also...the design sequence you have there doesn't add up. The actual costs
>there add up to 101 MCr, not 89.7, and there isn't anything listed for the
>powerplant. Using QSDS 1.5, 275 Mw of powerplant uses another 9.8 of
>volume, costs an additional 27.5 mCr, and needs 2.8 dT volume for fuel.
>This raises the costs to 128.52 MCr, or 96.4 MCr with the QSDS discount,
>and lowers your cargo capacity to just over 40 tons.

Powerplant was another transcribo.  I left the line with the
(as you surmised) 275MW powerplant out when typing it in.
That line is:
	Power: 275MW (200+75), 9.8T, MCr27.5, 2.9T fuel, 0.3 crew
It *was* properly taken into account in the cost and tonnage
totals, was just left off the transcribed version.

However, re-running the other calculations three times now, I appear
to have the right volumes and costs.  For costs, I get
	8.8+25.2+0.1+9.2+7.4+0.3+2.8+27.5+0.014+0.42+1.0 = 82.734
For tons used:
	6+40+1+5+1.7+0.3+0.0+6+9.8+2.9+3.5+20+40+53 = 189.2
out of 189.6 useful for the hull type.  (oh, and a 0.4 ton ships
locker... which is also on the on-paper design sheet ;-)

I've been known to make mistakes, and may still have one in the
above design.  However, and I've re-run the numbers three more times
today after doing them twice last night, every time I do it it comes
out the same.  I used to do this for real with ships (I have a BS in,
no joke, Naval Architecture... my Senior Thesis project was a 4300 TEU
containership design) and I'm a practicing aerospace engineer
doing real life launch vehicle and spacecraft designs...
I learned the hard way how to check my own work, and I think
this time it's right.  If not, please point out exaxtly where
you find the errors it in the above...  If there's an error,
it's going right past me, and I want to know why.

The prize for finding one (real one, not just the third thing
I may have transcribed wrong) is a free dinner and drink if you
ever are in Berkeley.  8-)


- -george william herbert
Retro Aerospace
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 05:40:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: ISBA PBEM Controvesy

>> I hate to throw oil onto everybodies fire, but is the TML the proper
>> place for a PBEM to be running (As amusing as some of the ISBA sidelines
>> are), wouldn't it be better to setup a ISBA list, for this PBEM and then
>> post any Ship designs onto the TML as required, but save the bandwidth
>> on the TML for techie answer and questions, WIMHO is what this list is
>> for????????
> Good point; this isn't the proper place for PBeM's to occur.  OTOH, these
> ISBA posts are *great* fodder, and of much broader appeal than a standard
> PBeM.  It's more like reading a piece of a full-fledged TAS business
> journal every day.  I'd love it if IG took this stuff and put it into
> JTAS #26.  I can see a series of articles growing out of this, maybe even
> a supplement someday.
    I don't think anyone has figured this out yet, but... this is EXACTLY what
would be happening in the Imperium in Year 0.  In effect we are creating the
lesser known aspects of that Mileu's history. ;) And if this isn't part of what
TML exists for... then what does it exist for?  To talk up Bab 5?  Star Wars??
Star Trek???  I love these show but they are not Traveller, and I've seen a lot
of messages about them.
    I'm not upset about those posts but I think we should remember we'll have
to cover a LOT of territory here to over all the potential aspects of
Traveller. ;)

> Just MHO, of course.  If a decision is made to take the ISBA stuff off
> the TML, I'd like to be included on whatever alternate list is set up;
> I won't be contributing, but I'd like to continue to read these posts.
    Same here.  I'm not all that terribly interested in designing ships, but
all the potential stuff around it makes for a wonderful seedbed for adventure!

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:20:46 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Echo Lines initial press release

PRESS RELEASE - Sylea/Core, 100-0

A new spaceline, Echo Spacelines, is planning to start commercial
operations in the near future in many areas of the First Empire and
surrounding space.  Echo intends to offer reduced-rate interstellar
travel to the public, pending Imperial approval of the variant commercial
rate schedules.  Approval is expected by the end of Year 0 and operations
should commence in mid-Year 1.

The president of Echo, Magid Tamran, summed up the business philosophy
with the following statement: "No frills interstellar transport at
prices the average citizen can afford.   Everyone is stuck with this
idea that everyone who's traveling needs the standard amenities and
can afford the standard prices.  We want to provide everyone, not just
the rich, government, and business executives with adequate and safe
availabilities to travel from world to world.  It won't be as comfortable
as a standard liner, but we will get you there for less than your average
annual salary like the other guys want to charge.  And not just to worlds
lucky enough to be on mains, our ships will reach out 2 parsecs to the
rest of you, not just the lucky few."

Echo Spacelines preliminarily plans on using the soon-to-be-unveiled
Tammuz-Karst TK-109 light transport in a mixed-class liner configuration
with 20 small and 4 standard staterooms.  Echo is considering all-passenger
models of other starship varieties as well and is expected to request bids
for at least 20 starships by the end of the year.  Other shipyards and
architects are invited to tender bids per the specifications attached.

The preliminary rate schedule proposed by Echo is:
Echo Class (std stateroom+2m^3 luggage):
Single Occupancy	Cr9,000
Single Occupancy (sdby)	Cr8,000
Double Occupancy	Cr6,000
Triple Occupancy	Cr5,000
Quadruple Occupancy	Cr4,500

Tourist Class (sm stateroom+1m^3 luggage):
Single Occupancy	Cr6,000
Double Occupancy	Cr4,500


- --end

[starship specifications]
# E1 vessel specification:
# 100 tons standard.  Jump-2 fitted.  Atmospheric landing capability.
# Fitted for four crewmember operations (2 flight, steward, medic).
# Self defense capability fitted.   Quarters fitout of at least
# 16 small and 3 large staterooms for passenger revenue.
# At least 2 standard tons cargo.  Financial analysis to be
# included in bid demonstrating monthly cost breakeven
# (neglecting ship down payment amortization) at 3 jumps/month
# and 70% load capacity or less.


- --

- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:09:57 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: M0 and First Survey are out!

On 15 Feb 97 at 11:36, Scott M Galliand spewed:

> I just received my copies of Milieu Zero and First Survey from
> Imperium Games.  So far, I've only thumbed through both and both
> look interesting so far.  I have found one mistake:  The statistics
> for the Scout Cruiser (M0, p. 86) has a deckplan key. 
> Unfortunately, they forgot the deckplans.

Yes, I've got to admit, I received a copy of each as well today.  I cringed 
when I saw the error.  It was my deckplan that got omitted. 
It was definitely submitted to the ancien regime.  What they did 
with it I haven't a clue.

> First Survey looks good, with statistics on the sectors for both
> players and referees.  I didn't see the original Atlas of the
> Imperium, so I can't comment on format for it.  But First Survey has
> a couple pages of text, then statistics on 9 of the twelve sectors
> in the region of Core (three have deliberately been made "GM
> preserves" - GMs can do as they wish.) . The book then goes on to
> give the stats the players should see along with a map of the
> sector.  After the player's version of the sector is presented, the
> complete stats for the referees are given (given, it looks like, in
> the old DGP format, with PGB and star types included).

Scott glosses over 1st Survey a little bit.  Essentially 1st survey 
fills in the same 9 sectors from player AND referee perspective.  The 
referee maps are complete, the players left with incomplete 
information, in many cases.  BTW, 3 of the 12 interior sectors are 
left blank, intentionally to be undeveloped by IG for referee's and 
players to run their own campaigns and detail as they see fit.  All 
worlds are named, for the referee, ALL UWP's are detailed for ALL 
worlds.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 04:19:16 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: New Planet Evolution Theories (long)

Something for worldbuilders to munch on, courtesy of an
astronomer/physicist/historian friend of mine...

Glenn G.
- -----------

UC NEWSWIRE
Date: 2/13/1997
Contact: Robert Irion 408-459-2495; irion@ua.ucsc.edu

PLENITUDE OF NEW WORLDS CHALLENGES SKILLS OF PLANETARY MODELERS

This is not your father's solar system

* For release at 2:20 p.m. PST Thursday, February 13, in
conjunction with Douglas Lin's talk in a seminar on "New Worlds
and Old Worlds" at the AAAS meeting, Washington State Convention
Center, Seattle.

SEATTLE, WA -- About two years ago, astrophysicist Douglas Lin 
recalls, speaker after speaker at an astronomy meeting in Hawaii 
deplored the lack of convincing evidence for new planets outside
of our solar system. Lin then arose to state that making planets
is incredibly easy. Researchers weren't finding them, he said,
for a simple reason: Most young planets migrate into their parent
stars, which consume them.

     The civil audience pelted Lin with figurative tomatoes. But
a lot has changed in two years, and no one's hurling fruit now.

     Indeed, Lin and other theorists are straining to keep up
with the whirlwind of planetary discoveries that has blown
through astronomy since late 1995. They have stretched their
models of how such systems evolve to accommodate a startling
variety of planets, from ones with eccentric looping orbits to
"hot Jupiters" that practically skim the outer atmospheres of
their stars. Even the history of our own solar system -- heretofore
a peaceful scenario -- is undergoing new scrutiny.

     "Planets appear ubiquitous, and planetary systems are 
extremely diverse," says Lin, professor of astronomy and 
astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz. "But to 
form a system that looks like ours, or one that can support the 
existence of life, may be a rare event." Lin will give a status
report on the newly energized field of planetary-system modeling
on Thursday, February 13, during "Old Worlds and New Worlds," a
special two-day seminar at the AAAS meeting in Seattle.

     Lin launched his recent modeling efforts in October 1995
when Swiss astronomers announced the first of the new batch of
planets, called 51 Pegasi B. A team at UCSC's Lick Observatory,
led by UCSC alumnus Geoffrey Marcy, rapidly confirmed the planet.
>From the outset its very existence seemed impossible. The
Jupiter-sized object raced around its star once every four days,
at a distance just one-twentieth that of Earth from our Sun. How
could the planet, presumably a giant ball of gas, withstand this
blast-furnace orbit? More puzzling still, how did it get there at
all?

     Within a day of the announcement Lin, Peter Bodenheimer of 
UCSC, and Derek Richardson of the University of Toronto had their 
solution. The planet coalesced in a colder region of its star's
nebula, perhaps 100 times further away than it is today. Then, in
a million-year gravitational tug-of-war among the star, the
planet, and gas and dust in the rest of the disk, 51 Pegasi B
spiraled slowly but relentlessly toward the star. Finally, in the
model's biggest surprise, inward and outward forces on the
planet's orbit canceled each other out just before the star would
have devoured the planet. The team published its paper in Nature
on April 18, 1996.

     Lin's idea that infant planets can migrate either toward or 
away from their stars dates to the 1970s, but he doesn't hesitate
to call those initial concepts "wild speculations." If his new
model is correct, the truth is even weirder. "I never thought the
migration could stop, especially so close to the star," he says.
"That was a real shocker."

     Two other curious systems (70 Virginis and HD 114762) have 
large planets that swoop close to their stars and then out again, 
almost like huge comets. In a paper to appear in the
Astrophysical Journal, Lin and Shigeru Ida of the Tokyo Institute
of Technology suggest that each star may have possessed a massive
disk of gas and dust, spawning several large planets. Within a
few million years, the pernicious effects of gravity could have
perturbed the planets sufficiently to make their orbits cross.
Then, inevitable collisions created a single enormous object with
a bizarre orbital path.

     If this notion sounds vaguely familiar, it should: Immanuel 
Velikovsky proposed that similar events in our own solar system 
could explain certain oddities in the rotations and positions of 
planets. Velikovsky's 1950 book Worlds in Collision went way off 
the deep end, but Lin acknowledges that the basic premise has 
merit -- if not here, than elsewhere.

     "Dynamics among planets and within a planetary disk is a
very rich game," he says. For instance, our outer solar system is 
"marginally stable." If Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune each had the
same mass as Jupiter, their orbits might degenerate within a
billion years -- less than the Sun's lifetime -- and wreak havoc
throughout the entire system. "We are safe, but we are just
safe," Lin says. "It takes only subtle differences in initial
conditions to cause very diverse evolutionary paths."

     Edging further along this limb, Lin suggests that life most 
likely would arise in systems with single massive planets tucked 
close to their stars, like 51 Pegasi B. He envisions such planets
as the last in a succession of gas giants that migrate to their
fiery dooms, sweeping up any rocky terrestrial planets in their
paths. Then, according to his models, the gas and dust that
remains in the wake of the final planet spreads out, seeding a
second generation of earthlike bodies. With no gaseous titans
further out to disrupt them, these planets could settle into
stable orbits for billions of years. It's not out of the
question, Lin says, that such a chain of events marked our solar
system's childhood.

     This conjecture flatly counters a tenet in astronomy that 
earthlike planets form in the toasty conditions close to their
stars while gas giants dominate the frigid outer reaches, and
never the twain shall meet. "I'm not a religious person," Lin
says, smiling. "I'm willing to challenge any paradigm."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #954
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 16 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 955



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: M0 and First Survey are out!
Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
M0 and First Survey out.
Re: M0 and First Survey are out!
Re: M0 and First Survey out.
YugoShips PLC's Volga Pride, Large freighter design
Re: fuel use in microjumps?
(Fwd) Re: M0 and First Survey out.
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Re: Crew requirements
Gridlore Technologies withdraws from ISBA
Jumpspace Update
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA
Milieu0 First Survey Core maps
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #952
RE The color of J-space (and other curiosities)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:43:12 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: M0 and First Survey are out!

Stuart L. Dollar wrote:
> 
> On 15 Feb 97 at 11:36, Scott M Galliand spewed:
> 
> > I just received my copies of Milieu Zero and First Survey from
> > Imperium Games.  So far, I've only thumbed through both and both
> > look interesting so far.  I have found one mistake:  The statistics
> > for the Scout Cruiser (M0, p. 86) has a deckplan key.
> > Unfortunately, they forgot the deckplans.
> 
> Yes, I've got to admit, I received a copy of each as well today.  I cringed
> when I saw the error.  It was my deckplan that got omitted.
> It was definitely submitted to the ancien regime.  What they did
> with it I haven't a clue.

If IG permits (yo, Marc!) and you still have a copy, could you post
the file to the TML or place it on someone's Traveller homepage?
I'd like to print it off for some local gaming stores for inclusion
with their sales.

> Scott glosses over 1st Survey a little bit.  Essentially 1st survey
> fills in the same 9 sectors from player AND referee perspective.  The
> referee maps are complete, the players left with incomplete
> information, in many cases.  BTW, 3 of the 12 interior sectors are
> left blank, intentionally to be undeveloped by IG for referee's and
> players to run their own campaigns and detail as they see fit.  All
> worlds are named, for the referee, ALL UWP's are detailed for ALL
> worlds.

Well, neither has hit Dallas, Texas yet but it sounds like IG has done
a good job on them.  I'm looking forward to picking them up.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 04:44:22 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long

> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:49:38 -0900
> From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
> Subject: T4 Gripes (more)

	Will is talking about his Traveller campaign
here & I wanted to share my experiences as a player in
this campaign.  I do this not to bore you with details
but to indicate that I've played them all a lot lately
& that I think I can compare them well.

	We started out playing in September 1995, when 
we were playing TNE rules in the CT setting (1082). In 
early 1996 we switched over from playing TNE to using
MT rules but the campaign continued.  A few months later
some of the players retired and/or died, some of us 
rolled up new charecters & the campaign continued, but 
with a slightly different theme.  When T4 came out we
stopped the 1st campaign & started in on playing The 
Traveller Adventure using the T4 rules.  Partway through
this adventure several misjumps complicated the campaign,
which finally ended in Darrian space with the death of most
of the party.  In the past year & half plus I have been 
playing Traveller about 6 hours a week/every week & I think
I have a good understanding of TNE, MT, & T4 systems.  The T4 
skill system is broken, but is not unrepairable.  I do not think 
that I will bother to repair it however because I think 
that MT is better.
> 
> keep asking which task-system fixes I have tried with t4:
> Method 1: double skill, half att: player rebleeion at division and
> multiplication

	This is the system that I supported.  I don't see the problems
in simple multiplication & division but apparently it causes problems
for the math impaired. (Although why they can't simply do it once &
write the numbers on their charecter sheets I don't understand.

	Lets take a look at my player charecter Fred Grandy, who had:
a UPP of 8A8ED7-5 at the end of the campaign.  Ssome of his better skill
levels included:
		Fast Talk-6
		Pilot-5
		Perception-4	Streetwise-4
		Jack-of-all-Trades-3
		3 more skills at 3
		11 more skills at 2
		15 more skills at 1
		and 4 skills at level 0
(these totals do not include his Psi skills as that is yet another
problem)

	Let us suppose that Fred is trying an Impossible Fast Talk
attempt, a task involving Int & Fast Talk skill (or Edu & Fast Talk
if you try to baffle them with bull....) his target number is a 20 or
less. 

> Method 2: 1.5/2/2.5/3/4/5 dice method: Still too easy, and CF became more
> common.

	Fred needs to roll a 20 out of 30 no problem
> 
> Method 3: 1.5/2/3/4/5/6 dice method: same.
	
	This is a little harder 20 out of 36 but his chances are still
better than %0%
> 
> Method 4: Eris method: vetoed by general mention of the additional steps by
> players.
	
	This method has some potentail but seems more troble than necessary.
> 
> Method 5: 2/3/4/6/8 dice method: Much worse than method 2, but finally hit
> difficulties based upon exibited skill levels in the campaign.

	This would require a roll of 20 out of 56 and is quite unlikely
to work.

	This is about the right level of difficulty, but the odds of Crit 
Failing are much too high.  The T4 rules say of Imposssible Tasks "Even
the fittest (asset F) best trained (skill 12) (Asset=27 charecters in
the
galaxy have trouble accomplishing deeds of this level."  On an 8d6 task
the
average roll will be a 28 and an asset 27 charecter will have about a
48%
chance of success (not counting Crit Fails).
> 
> CGen vs Play: the campaign covered 6 months real time, PC's aged 1.5 years,
> all PC's gained 7+ levels during play, at 1-2 rolls per session, 3 if they
> really impressed me. Most PC's had 2 or 3 attributes in the 10+ range, and
> several had primary skills in excess of 8, at start!  Heck, I had a Scout
> with Equestrian 4, and NO other non-ship/non-ship-crew skills.

	All these charecters were legitimately rolled up.  I was lucky
in charecter generation (UPP 8A8C76) & picked up a few points during 
charecter generation & 1 in play.  Since T4 has more rolls on the skill
tables & T4 charecters will end up with slightly better stats.  I do not
think that this is a _bad_ thing but the task system needs to take it
into account.
> 
> CGen method used: 12d6 for attributes, place 2d per attribute after all 12d
> rolled. Pick table, roll skill from table. Multiple careers allowed.
> Background skills totally rolled.
> 
> Everyone quickly learned that Jack-O-A-T was the next best thing to
> actually being skilled in EVERYTHING.

	Jack of all Trades seems a bit too powerfull in T4.  You
could create a totally cinematic MacGuiveresque charecter entirely
too easily by just concentrating on high stats & the Jack skill.
> 
> Everyone liked the new psionics system, and the additions I created worked
> well. I'll re-post those if asked.

	The new Psionics system is very elegant & runs well.  I like
it but by not requireing skill rolls it makes Psionics too easy.
> 
> My group was not overly enamored with the new aging rules, but not overly
> bothered. It would have been easier to hand them a table, but I was lazy. I
> still prefer CT/MT aging.

	T4 aging is better, CT/MT aging is too harsh.
> 
> 1/2 Dice: Everyone in the group seemerd to think that they were a nuissance
> at best. No-one strenuosuly objected to them, but all were unhappy with
> them.

	I did not mind them but if task difficulties are raised they become
less important.
> 
> Combat System: the 3d limit is lame; it makes the average fire-fight with
> .45 ACP, .454 Casul, and .357 mag all about the same; every gun larger than
> a 357 will do limit to unarmored targets (the most common type). Makes
> Rifels less intimidating, too. Again, I shall return to Mega, where a .22
> can kill Mr FFF227 with a good enough hit, and a 357 will normally drop Joe
> 777777.

	I agree, the 3 dice limit is too forgiving, unrealistic, & eliminates
the real world advantage big guns have in killing people.
> 
> Pools: I can see the use for the pools, CT, MT, T4 all have pools of one
> kind or another. I like Pools from T4, and like MT's Tactical pool. TNE has
> the best Initiative system IMNSHO.

	Yes TNE has the best initiative system, it is clear & work well.
> 
> QSDS and SSDS: as the ammount of confusion grows on the list, and it
> becomes discovered that they aren't as good as they first seemed, I point
> out again that MT had an all-in-1 system for vehicles through starcraft.

	I am not to happy with this either but enough has been said about
this elsewhere.
> 
> T4 Ship Combat: Plain stinks. 'nuff said.

	See above comment.
> 
> MM's Autograph: Second Best thing about T4, as far as I am concerned.
> 
> M0 and TL12 limit in the books: Well, T4 SHURE AIN'T GENERIC ENOUGH. I had
> to rely upon CT and MT sources for ships and equipment, as ships couldn't
> be designed adequately for my needs with QSDS, and SSDS I found WORSE than
> FF&S due to poor wordings and layout. The newer version shure looks
> cleaner. But I still need up to TL 17 as a regular component... Yaskodray
> didn't get ALL of his grandchildren in my campaings (Ahh, the fun I had
> with Yaskodrits).

	I think that the _idea_ of Milleau 0 is a great idea' but that the
rules should have covered items through TL 15-16.
> 
> And overall, I feel the whole feel of the t4 amalgam is not to MY liking.
> Except the new psionics. I've tried T4, and it DID NOT WORK FOR ME. or my
> player group.  I will await T5... and try to glean what usefull ideas I
> find as long as I can from TC, DS, JTAS and TML.

	I would not go so far as to say it did not work but what I will say
is that it did not work as well as MT or TNE rules did.
> 
> William F. Hostman              

	I am very attached to the Traveller background (especially the
CT setting), even though I find large portions of it very improbable. 
 I do not have any particular attachment to any set of rules.  I would
 be happy to play CT, MT, TNE, T4,Gurps Traveller,  2300AD rules,Fudge
 Traveller, White Wolf Traveller, HERO system Traveller, or even Call
 of Cthulhu Traveller.  Yes the T4 rules do work & they do some things
 well, but MegaTraveller did most all of them better.

	I think that a lot of people out there must be having a lot of
fun playing T4 & I'm glad they are but I think that it is the _setting_
not the rules that make Traveller what it is.  I have had fun playing
games using systems I dislike, such as AD&D, but this fun has always
been _in_spite_of_ the rules & do to a good referee & players & not due 
to the rules.

Peter Newman

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:57:53 CST
From: galliand@juno.com (Scott M Galliand)
Subject: M0 and First Survey out.

Well, Stuart, I figured since we HAD the authors of M0 here, I shouldn't
say too much 'bout it since it wasn't my place.

I do have one question for you guys:  I remember in Marc's original post
that there was originally going to be some info on Terra in M0.  Was it
decided not to include that?    Just so you guys think I'vw got brain
damage, here is the original Places outline from Marc's 10/09/1996
outline.

2. Places
	a. Terra
	b. Vland
	c. The Great Rift
	d. Sylea
	e. Antares

Also, are you guys working on M200, and is that where info on Terra going
to appear?

Just wondering, as I am developing an PBEM campaign set in the Old Earth
Union.

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:34:36 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: M0 and First Survey are out!

On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, David Smart wrote:

> If IG permits (yo, Marc!) and you still have a copy, could you post
> the file to the TML or place it on someone's Traveller homepage?
> I'd like to print it off for some local gaming stores for inclusion
> with their sales.

I'd say, send it to dave bullock for inclusion on IG's web site.  Should 
be no problem that way.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:08:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: M0 and First Survey out.

On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Scott M Galliand wrote:

> I do have one question for you guys:  I remember in Marc's original post
> that there was originally going to be some info on Terra in M0.  Was it
> decided not to include that?    

Hmm.  I don't have the book yet (maybe Monday, I hope!), but I do have 
the manuscript.  Although Terra appears in Marc's outline (and that is 
what we worked from in creating M0), and the Places section was assigned 
to Michael Barry, my manuscript doesn't include an entry for Terra.  
Please remember we finished this in early November, thus my memory lapse 
as to what happened.  I saved all the email I received about that 
project, but none of them mention leaving Terra out.  Hmm.  Michael is 
out of email contact (you may remember he made a post to that effect last 
month), so we can't ask him.  Maybe Andy (project leader for M0) will 
remember what happened. 


> Also, are you guys working on M200, and is that where info on Terra going
> to appear?

Our current project is Pocket Empires.  Our 1996/97 product proposal 
hasn't been approved yet, so there's no way to say at this time which 
we'll be working on.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:33:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: YugoShips PLC's Volga Pride, Large freighter design

I decided to play around with a 'big' ship, to see how the numbers worked
out....

Volga Pride class Container Ship, jump 2
BigBox Trader of the Line

Tons: 5000 Std (Box SL)    Volume: 70,000 m^3           Cost: 1050 MCr
Crew: 13                   High/Mid Pass: 0             Low: 0
Cargo:3584 Std             Controls: ST Civ (Bridge)    TL: 12

9 Size                     2 Jump Drive (500 Std/Pc Fuel)
                           1 Maneuver (Thruster, 1250Mw)
       			   0.65 Power Plant (1000,500,100,25 mW)
           		   1000 Fuel
	 		   A1 P2 J0 Sensors
                           0 Armor, 22 Structure

Crew Detail: 2 Command, 1 Pilot, 1 Astrogator, 1 Sensors/Commo, 8 Engineer
Accomodations: 2 Large, 11 small staterooms

YugoShips PLC introduces their biggest effort ever: The Volga Pride class
of large containerized cargo ship. Destined for workhorse duty along the
Sylean Mains, this ship can carry almost 1200 standard 3dT Imperial
containers each trip, loading and offloading it's cargo rapidly though 70
cargo hatches per side. Designed with great care to maximize cargo space
and reduce crew requirements, the Volga Pride offers a high degree of
automation, enabling, for instance, the entire maneuver/jump drive systems
to be run by only 4 crew members, and a total crew complement of just 13.

Notes:  This is the biggest pure-cargo ship buildable by SSDS or QSDS
rules. This is an SSDS design. This one makes a profit of 1.62 Mcr/month
at full loading, with standard 1000kCr/dT cargo prices. It's still tight,
though. The ship has to run 23 jumps/year at 80% capacity to break
even...there's little margin for downtime with this one. But if it runs
all the time, and the cargo hold's full, it'll make you almost 16 Mcr/year
profit

What is the real life breakeven point for something like a modern
container ship, the closest thing I can think of to this design? Anyone
know?

That a ship this big needs to run so full so much of the time indicates to
me that the numbers for freight are just too low...maybe that 4000 cr/ton
figure in the T4 book is right!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:45:40 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: fuel use in microjumps?

In a message dated 97-02-15 08:31:32 EST, you write:

> 
>  how much fuel is used in the microjump? The normal fuel/distance implies 
> practically zero as I understand it.
>  No, I don't want to reopen the debate on what the fuel is used for.
>  G
>  
A microjump still uses the same fuel it would in a regular jump (which we can
assume would be jump 1).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:25:47 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: M0 and First Survey out.

On 16 Feb 97 at 7:57, Scott M Galliand spewed:

> Well, Stuart, I figured since we HAD the authors of M0 here, I
> shouldn't say too much 'bout it since it wasn't my place.

Naw.  I'd like your opinions.  I just thought that it'd be a good idea
to elaborate on what First Survey was about.  :-)

> I do have one question for you guys:  I remember in Marc's original
> post that there was originally going to be some info on Terra in M0.
>  Was it decided not to include that?    Just so you guys think I'vw
> got brain damage, here is the original Places outline from Marc's
> 10/09/1996 outline.
> 
> 2. Places
>  a. Terra
>  b. Vland
>  c. The Great Rift
>  d. Sylea
>  e. Antares

No, you don't have brain damage.  AFAIK, there were write ups on ALL
portions of the outline done although I worked on none of the sections
in question.  We worked off of Marc's outline, and indeed, a copy of
it still sits on my hard drive, somewhere.  AFAIK they were all
written, and submitted.  Beyond that, don't know with any certainty.  

> Also, are you guys working on M200, and is that where info on Terra
> going to appear?

I have no idea who is working on Milieu 200.  Probably nobody at this
point.  I would imagine that information on Terra will probably pop up
there (It's a logical place for it), but I am just speculating. 
Currently, we are working, under the supervision of Tim Brown and Marc
Miller on Pocket Empires.  

> Just wondering, as I am developing an PBEM campaign set in the Old
> Earth Union.

Hmm.  Post your ideas to the list, if you want.  As a player/referee,
I'd be fascinated to see them.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:59:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

At 06:44 PM 2/14/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Would anyone be interested in a history of the development of the Vargr
Ueknou class 
>corsair from TL 9 to TL F? (includes a design from each TL too!)
>
slather drool wantwantwant!!!

You can take that as a "yes"

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:59:43 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements

At 08:05 PM 2/15/97 +0100, Hans Rancke and I agreed on something:

>So what we need are either detailed rules for malfunctions or a simple rule
>that tells the Referee to impose a malfunction whenever the PCs gets too
>much money... 

I use the "wear number" from T2K and T:TNE.  I break the ship down into the
major components (j-drive, hull, computer, etc.) and assign each a wear number.

Doing it this way, you can either get an average wear value, and discount
the ship based on that, or figure the wear-adjusted cost of each component
and refigure the total cost of the ship.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:59:38 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Gridlore Technologies withdraws from ISBA

In a move that has left many industry obsevers wondering, Gridlore
Technologies today announced that it was withdrawing from the ISBA.

"Simply put, we were streching ourselves too thin, and could not support the
Trans-C division in the way we had hoped.  GT will remain focused on our
weapons and individual equipment markets." said GT representative Caileigh
Gridlore.

Rumors abound that the withdrawl of GT was sparked by an incident at an
informal party held on Orbital Five, where Sir Arameth Gridlore and Hengabar
Spofulam nearly came to blows.  According to witnesses, the incident began
when Mr. Spofulam was speaking with an industry reporter, and Sir Arameth
forced his way into the conversation, accusing Spofulam of "nearly getting
us all killed" in an unspecified incident.

Station security quickly seperated the two industrialists.  When pressed for
an explanation, Sir Arameth had only the following comment:

"Hengabar and I go back a long way.  We might have been friends at one
point, but he knows why that can never be.  Ask him about Celetus, and what
happened there.  He won't answer you, but it will ruin his night.. maybe
give him some nightmares.. Gods know, he deserves them for what happened.."

Sir Arameth was then hustled out of the banquet hall by family members.

News of GTs withdrawl caused GT stock to rise 2.3 points on the Sylean
exchange.  One analyst, speaking off the record, said that the ship building
market is getting crowded, and predicted that several other smaller concerns
might follow Gridlore's lead.

**Role playing off**

As much as I liked the idea of the ISBA, my medical condition has worsened,
and I'm now on some strong pain killers.  This makes designing Starships a
chore, and more trouble than it's worth.

I'll still be working on weapon designs, and adding to my web pages, but
trying to learn to use SSDS/QSDS while under the influence of vicodin just
isn't possible.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 12:44:40 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Jumpspace Update

For those who are interested, I have updated my Jumpspace website to 
include new Marathon maps. Have fun!

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:58:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

In mail you write:

> The 200 ton'ers are the "tramps" of the Imperium.  They work for scraps on
> the main runs, carry "special" cargos, exist on spec trade (or smuggling),
> and are continiously being pushed further out onto the fringes.
>
> The only place they make economic sense is on the fringes.  Out there, they
> can open up trade routes, carry the small amounts of cargo available as
> trade grows, and make a few credits before the mega-corps notice and take
> over.  Then the little ships just move further out, and start all over
> again.

They make sense *inside* the Imperium too. There are always going to be
systems where it just doesn't *pay* to send a megafrieghter. That
research outpost with all of 12 people, or that TL3 world that can't
afford to import much because it can't produce much in the way of
exporets (quantity-wise. The stuff may be *hideouesly* valuable, but
but the total amount is too small).

Free traders are a combo of gypsy trucker, tramp freighter, and "bush
pilot". As such they'll be common on the "fringes", but they'll still
be around in even the developed areas, carrying stuff to the "small
towns". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:21:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In mail you write:

> In-Reply-To: <v02140b01af2920b44b62@[192.121.125.201]>
>
> << On another note: Can ones jump destination be the same as the origin? I
> allow it and it has been used by clever players/pirates to get some heat
> from patrol cruisers et c. >>
>
> I see no reason why not (and if you're in a hurry, it should make the 
> calculations easier), but remember that you can enter jumpspace from 
> anywhere, but you always come out at least 100d from the nearest world (so 
> if you did a 'null jump' at 10d, you'd be kicked out at 100d).

Not a problem. A week later, most planets will have *easily* moved more
than 100 diameters. BTW, this is why doing a "blind jump" is a bad
idea. since everything in the universe is moving relative to everything
else, failing to calculate before engaging the drive can have you come
out *anywhere* within the jump distance you engaged for (ie if you used
fuel for J-1, anywhere within a parsec of your starting point).

Or, you can say that a "neutral jump" has you come out in "the same
place". But that needs to be modified by the motion of the planet (and
possibly the star). At an average of 30 km/sec, a week means 18 million
km, or about 1/8 of an AU. 

Oh yeagh, if you engage the drive at 10 diameters, don't forget that
gives a *large* chance for a misjump. It's even *possible* to engage
the drive on the ground. But the odds are little better than suicide
(anybody got them handy?)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 19:27 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Questions on QSDS, THUDDD, ISBA

In-Reply-To: <199702142307.RAA19910@nebula.cs.umn.edu>

<< Another problem with the
sentence as written is whether to round up or down when the fraction is 
3/6 (0.5). >>

0.5 usually rounds up.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:26:11 -0500
From: Alan Nuss <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Milieu0 First Survey Core maps

Although the Core sector data and maps are the same in Milieu 0 and
First Survey, they do not agree with the Core Subsector in the T4 rule
book.  The physical layout of the Core subsector given in the T4 rules
is subsector K, but in the 2 newest books Sylea and the Third Imperuim 
planets are now in subsector G.  The only planet named that is the same
between the three books is Sylea.  Arlea, Ordun, Remiun, ect. no longer
exist (at least they do not have entries in the sector data sections).

In First Survey it is written that the data used was "originally created
for the Traveller Atlas of the Imperium..".  I guess that the new maps
and data superceids (sp) the  information given in the T4 rule book.  At
least that is how I understand the change.

One of the things I like about First Survey is that the Fornast, Delphi,
and Zarushagar sectors are reserved for referees and no published
planets or adventures will apprear in these sectors.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:05:54 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #952

>> Maneuv: 1-G HEPLAR, 1 std, 140MW, MCr0.1, 5t fuel (40 hrs)
                                                                          ^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wasn't it reported on here earlier that this is an error in the QSDS system,
and that you only have *TWO* hours of fuel here. That's the reason why I
didn't use HEPlaR on my ship.

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:04:40 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: RE The color of J-space (and other curiosities)

Jeff Schmidt <jschmidt@netco.com> writes:

>... I'm curious about other folks' ideas about the nature of jumping and
>J-space.
>If anyone has online resources discussing this, I'd be interested in
>knowing about it, and if not, I'd like to spark discussion with the
>following questions:

Back in my University days I and another ref banged out house rules on how
jump drives operated. Our goals were to:

1. Describe the physics and mechanics of jump drive so that the players
knew what was reasonable and what was not, and so the referee could make
reasonable rulings on unusual circumstances.

2. Logically explain peculiarities in the Traveller rules (why does the
jump depend on volume but not mass? Why do they always take 1 week
regardless of distance jumped? Why don't they work close to planets when
there is gravity-canceling technology? Why do they need a human pilot to
plot jumps between locations that can be determined to arbitrary precision
computationally? How could the Annic Nova jump without fuel and with only a
tiny fraction of the energy supplied by fusing massive tonnage of
hydrogen?... the list goes on and on)

3. Provide lots of cool effects and anomalies the referee can use in campaigns.

I still have a writeup (it's about 3 pages) and I was planning to convert
it to HTML one of these days. If anyone's interested I could put it on my
web page, but it needs updating for T4. I will try to answer your questions
as they would apply in my campaign:

>1. It seems generally accepted that a ship creates a N-space bubble around
>itself before and during a jump.

Well, it creates an N-space bubble, but in J-space, not around itself.
There is already lots of N-space around itself before the jump so there is
no need to create more. J-space is another dimension different from
N-space.

>What, if anything, does such a thing look
>like (visually or through other sensing methods)?  Do the crew notice any
>differences when the bubble is formed?

Since we cannot look in the J direction for the same reason a 2-dimensional
creature cannot look into the third dimension, there is no way to detect
the bubble. The crew does notice tons of jump fuel being pumped into
nothingness and lots of energy appearing from nowhere.

>2. The actual act of entering J-space involves a massive burst of energy.
>What does an observer see when a ship enters J-space?  If a crewmember were
>looking out a viewport, what would they see?  Does the event affect the
>crew at all (sensations, etc.)?

The act of entering J-space involves a moderate amount of energy expended
over about 20 minutes, not a "massive burst". When there is no more fuel
being pumped and no more energy being generated the ship is ready to jump.
An observer may notice the ship generating a slightly higher amount of
waste heat than normal... and then appear to vanish in a puff of hydrogen
gas (plus traces of helium). High speed video of a jumping ship shows a
plane of murky red energy sweeping through the ship, intersecting the hull
along the jump grids. The plane swallows up the ship in front and emits
hydrogen gas in back. A crewmember looking out a viewport will see the
universe get replaced by a bunch of background IR. High speed video inside
the ship shows what appears to be an infinite plane of murky red energy
appear at one edge of the ship and swallow the entire universe up. They
feel no sensation at all since, from either viewer's frame of reference
they are not affected; it is the other ship/outside universe that
disappears. However, certain psionically gifted individuals have reported
"feeling something".

>3. Once in J-space, what, if anything, do crew looking out viewports see?
>What sort of sensor readings does the ship get?

Background radiation rapidly cooling toward absolute zero. Other than that,
Nothing. Not even empty space; Nothing.

>4. If energy or matter is introduced to the N-space-J-space boundary, what
>happens?  Could this endanger the jumping ship?

You'd have to be quick! If someone outside the ship fired an object into
the plane of energy as it swallowed the ship it would probably get ejected
along with the hydrogen unless it was REALLY fast or large, then you'd get
a bunch of subatomic particles along with the hydrogen. If someone inside
the ship threw an object into the plane it would get swallowed along with
the rest of the universe (from their frame of reference), though someone
outside the ship would see some some extra protons and neutrons along with
the hydrogen. It would not endanger the ship unless it was massive enough
to make the "N-space bubble" unstable. A hunk of neutronium would do. If
that is the case, see the next question.

>5. If for some reason the N-space bubble drops while in J-space, what happens?

The ship and everything aboard would turn into a cloud of unbound quarks.
These would reappear as a burst of subatomic particles at the ship's
original destination in one week. Yes, you are dead.

>6. When a ship re-enters N-space, what do observers (on and off the ship)
>see or feel?

The reverse of what they saw in step 2; though without the hydrogen puff.
Again, each observer sees the other reappearing.

>7. Are the different races' and manufacturers' jumpdrives sufficiently
>different to generate identifiable signatures for those who know what to
>look for?

No. If you want to know who it is, you have to go out and look at them. We
considered making them identifiable, but decided this way was more fun.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #955
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 16 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 956



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:
Re: Crew requirements
Back to the old Core Subsector
Rounding Convention
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Robots as Ship Crewmembers
28 CT starships for T4 (long)
Old Free Traders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:12:09 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re:

>Please, move ISBA OFF TML.
><IMNSHO>
> It is a PBEM, it is pure B_LLS__T AFAI care, and it takes almost 50% of my
>d/l time. It has it's place, yes, but it is of limited to no interest for
>myself, and obviously a few others.
></IMNSHO>

Please, move the Voyager/Babylon5 OFF TML
<IMNSHO>
It is off topic, it is pure B_LLS__T AFAI care, and it take almost 50% of my
d/l time. It has it's place, yes, but it is of NO interest for myself, and
at least
the ISBA postings ARE Traveller topics.

<g> This IS NOT meant as a flame, just that complaining about bandwidth 
while holding an ongoing Star Trek conversation is a bit like the pot calling
the kettle black.

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:25:00 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements

>Traveller defines the term will *always* ride scheduled, large liners.  I
>mean, seriously:  If, for the same price, you can ride a nice comfy liner
>for a week, or trust yourself to a crappy little freighter that smells
>like old gym socks and has a crew that looks like they'd be pirates if
>they could afford a better laser...which would *you* choose?

Maybe you'd take into consideration that you'd rather be on that little tramp
freighter when it pirates the liner you would have been riding...if it's crew is
anything like my players?

"And now ladies and gentleman, for your in-flight entertainment, the Captain
would like to draw your attention to that passenger liner you can see out the
left hand windows...."

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:21:32 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Back to the old Core Subsector

Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what it
was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
        This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign, because I
am NOT going to just pretend that nothing happened. When my players get back
from their little jaunt to the Gushemege sector, they will find
everything...different.
        So guys, help me figure out (in story terms) what happened... :)

Allen Shock

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 19:04:14 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Rounding Convention

On 02/16/97 at 07:27 PM,  aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
said:

> << Another problem with the
> sentence as written is whether to round up or down when the fraction is 
> 3/6 (0.5). >>

> 0.5 usually rounds up.

Here is a convention concerning rounding that I use:

2d6/3,dn   - means truncate (throw away fraction)
2d6/3,rd   - means round (.5+ rounds up, less than .5 rounds down) 2d6/3,up  
- - means go up to next whole number if there's any fraction

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:02:08 -0600
From: bill fegley <961fegley@alpha.nlu.edu>
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

help

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:14:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Robots as Ship Crewmembers

  Finally got a chance to read the Central Supply Catalog (just too busy
with ship designs, I guess), and I noticed the TL12 companion robot.  I
did some back of the envelope calculations, and it looks like such a robot
would cost on the order of 3,000 a month to purchase and maintain (if
financed along with a ship).

  Now, this is nothing to get excited about - gunners and medical
personel get paid less, though it is half the rate of a pilot.  The real
kicker is in life support and housing.  The life support for a crew member
is on the same order as salary - 50,000 per year for 25 jumps.  Robots run
on electricity, and Mr. Fusion Plant is churning that out.  Plus, the
cabin you were using for a person now can be cargo instead (for a cheaper
ship), or can carry a passenger and make money that way.

  The above makes the assumption that a standard ship's computer can
handle the computations - the Catalog is vague on the central computer
requirements to run companions.  

  Where this gets introduced first would likely depend on public reaction.
I'd try out a steward if folks didn't mind too much - the robot is
available 24/7, compared to the sleep patterns of a human steward.  If
humans don't care for non-human care, I can easily see robot
communications officers and navigators, maybe even engineers.  I'd assume
pilot might be last, since people might want a person to actually "fly"
the ship, even if the computer was doing most of the work.
 
  Anyway, I think Generica Shipyards is going to commision a research
project on the matter.  It might even make it possible to make Far Traders
profitable - perish the thought!

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: 28 CT starships for T4 (long)

Hi.

Well, here they are, the 28 ship designs from CT that I promised I
would convert to T4. This should give all interested parties some
basis for judging the HG-to-T4 conversion system I've cooked up.

Disclaimer: I did not design any of these ships. The High-Guard and
Book-2 versions of these ships are all owned by Far Future Enterprises
(FFE).  These are all paraphrases of the original designs. The purpose
of this post is to demonstrate the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of
the HG-to-T4 conversion system that I posted here the other day. No
attempt is hereby made to challenge any trademarks of FFE.

I attempted to give credit to the original ship designers. Since I don't
have first-hand knowledge of who made these ships, my credits will no
doubt be wrong in some instances. Please forgive me.

- -Rob

...............................................................................
                               Kinunir class Battle Cruiser

Tons: 1250 Wedge/AF            Volume: 17500                    Cost: 1336.63
Crew: 45                       Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 63                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge /fib   Tech Level: 15

 9 Size Rating                                 4 Jump Drive Rating
 7 Fire Control Rating                         4 G Thruster Plates
                                               7 Power Plant Rating (21,875 MW)
 L Battery 1 - 6,3,1,0                       588 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
 L Battery 2 - 6,3,1,0                         0 Meson Screen Rating
 PA Battery 1 - 2,2,2,2                        6 Damper Rating
 PA Battery 2 - 2,2,2,2                        0 Sandcaster Rating
 Msl Battery 1 - 9(3)                         14 A  14 P  28 J  Sensor
 Msl Battery 2 - 9(3)                          0 Armor       24 Structure

 3 Air Rafts
 1 Grav APC
 1 35-ton Transport Pinnace

 Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

The Kinunir carries a black-globe force field with a 10% flicker rate.

...............................................................................
                               Unicorn class Close Escort

Tons: 300 Box/SL               Volume: 4200                     Cost: 355.99
Crew: 12                       Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 6                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 14

 8 Size Rating                                  5 Jump Drive Rating
 6 Fire Control Rating                          5 G Thruster Plates
                                                7 Power Plant Rating (5250MW)
 L Battery 1 - 4,4,4,4                         81 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
 L Battery 2 - 4,4,4,4                          0 Meson Screen Rating
 PA Battery 1 - 1,1,1,1                         0 Damper Rating
 PA Battery 1 - 1,1,1,1                         0 Sandcaster Rating
                                               12 A  12 P  12 J  Sensor
                                               30 Armor       15 Structure

 Gunned Gig

 Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Gunned Gig

Tons: 20 Needle/AF             Volume: 280               Cost: 27.65
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 7            Low Pas: 12(emergency)
Cargo: 2                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge Tech Level: 14

 7 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 2 Fire Control Rating                             6 G Thruster Plates
                                                  11 Power Plant Rating
 L Battery - 3,1,0,0                             2.2 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   4 A   4 P   4 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        4 Structure

 Chief Naval Architect: Marc. W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Transport Pinnace

Tons: 35                       Volume: 490                      Cost: 21.7
Crew: 2                        Hi/Med Pass: 34                  Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 17                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 15

 7 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 2 Fire Control Rating                             4 G Thruster Plates
                                                   4 Power Plant Rating
 L Battery - 4,2,1,0                             1.4 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   4 A   4 P   4 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        6 Structure

...............................................................................
                               Lightning class Fleet Intruder

Tons: 60,000 Box/SL            Volume: 840,000                  Cost: ?
Crew: 620                      Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pass: 310
Cargo: 1500                    Controls: Mil Std /Bridge /fib   Tech Level: 14

 10 Size Rating                            5 Jump Drive Rating
  6 Fire Control Rating                    2 G Thruster Plates
 19 L Batteries - 9,9,9,9                  5 Power Plant Rating(750 GW)
  4 HEW Batteries - 11,0,0,0           33000 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
  1 PAW spinal mount - 44,44,44,44    ?HG-6? Meson Screen Rating
 24 Msl Batteries 360(120)                 6 Damper Rating
                                   390(1950) Sandcaster Rating
                                          12 A  12 P  24 J  Sensor
                                          50 Armor       57 Structure

  4 400-ton Fuel Shuttles carried dorsally
 60 Rampart Fighters
  5 Gunboats

Chief Naval Architects: Marc Miller and Frank Chadwick
...............................................................................
                               Fuel Shuttle

Tons: 400 Wedge/AF             Volume: 5600                     Cost: ?
Crew: 4                        Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 0                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 14

 8 Size Rating                              0 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                      2 G Thruster Plates
                                            2 Power Plant Rating
                                          350 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                            0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                            0 Sandcaster Rating
                                            2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                            0 Armor       16 Structure

...............................................................................
                               Rampart Fighter

Tons: 15 Needle/AF             Volume: 210                      Cost: ?
Crew: 2                        Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 0                       Controls: Mil Std                Tech Level: 15

 7 Size Rating                              0 Jump Drive Rating
 0 Fire Control Rating                      6 G Thruster Plates
                                           20 Power Plant Rating (750MW)
 L Battery - 5,5,5,5                        3 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                            0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                            0 Sandcaster Rating
                                            2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                            0 Armor        3 Structure

...............................................................................
                               Gunboat

Tons: 20 Wedge/AF              Volume: 280                      Cost: ?
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 1                   Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 0                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 15

 7 Size Rating                              0 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                      4 G Thruster Plates
                                           10 Power Plant Rating
 HEW Battery - 7,0,0,0                      2 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                            0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                            0 Sandcaster Rating
                                            2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                            0 Armor        4 Structure

...............................................................................
                               Shivva class Patrol Frigate (Zhodani)

Tons: 600 Close/No SL          Volume: 8400                     Cost: 493.87
Crew: 18                       Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 24                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 13

 8 Size Rating                              4 Jump Drive Rating
 6 Fire Control Rating                      2 G Thruster Plates
                                            4 Power Plant Rating
 L Battery - 5,5,5,5                      264 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
 Msl Battery 9(3)                           0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                        3(15) Sandcaster Rating
                                           12 A  12 P  24 J  Sensor
                                            0 Armor       19 Structure

 10 Missile Fighters
  1 50-ton Fuel Shuttle

Chief Naval Architects: Bob McWilliams and Albie Fiore

...............................................................................
                               Zhodani Missile Fighter

Tons: 8 Needle/AF              Volume: 112                      Cost: 15.324
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 0                       Controls: Mil Std                Tech Level: 13

 6 Size Rating                              0 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                      6 G Thruster Plates
                                           13 Power Plant Rating
 Msl Battery 9(3)                           1 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                            0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                            0 Sandcaster Rating
                                            4 A   4 P   4 J  Sensor
                                            0 Armor        2 Structure

Chief Naval Architects: Bob McWilliams and Albie Fiore

...............................................................................
                               The Rock

Tons: 300 Planetoid/No SL      Volume: 4200                     Cost: 78.05
Crew: 5                        Hi/Med Pass: 3                   Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 11                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 9

 8 Size Rating                              1 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                      1 G Thruster Plates
                                            1 Power Plant Rating
 L Battery - 2,2,2,2                       93 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
 Msl Battery 3(1)                           0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                            0 Sandcaster Rating
                                            2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                           60 Armor       15 Structure

 25-ton "Pebble" Pinnace /fuel shuttle

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

When the Rock is powered down, it appears to be an ordinary asteroid.

...............................................................................
                               Leviathan class Merchant Cruisers

Tons: 1800 Box/SL              Volume: 25200                    Cost: 1229.46
Crew: 56                       Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pass: 6
Cargo: 70                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge /fib   Tech Level: 13

 9 Size Rating                              3 Jump Drive Rating
 7 Fire Control Rating                      4 G Thruster Plates
                                            5 Power Plant Rating
 L Battery  - 6,6,6,6                     612 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
 Msl Battery - 18(6)                        0 Meson Screen Rating
                                            0 Damper Rating
                                            0 Sandcaster Rating
                                           14 A  14 P  28 J  Sensor
                                           20 Armor       27 Structure

 1 95-ton Shuttle
 1 40-ton Pinnace
 2 20-ton Lifeboats

Chief Naval Architects: Bob McWilliams and Albie Fiore

...............................................................................
                               Type S Scout Courier

Tons: 100 Needle/AF            Volume: 1400                     Cost: 29.43
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 3                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 3                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 11

 8 Size Rating                                   2 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                           2 G Thruster Plates
                                                 2 Power Plant Rating (500MW)
                                                40 Fuel Rating /Scoop
                                                 0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                 0 Damper Rating
                                              0(0) Sandcaster Rating
                                                 2 A   4 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                 0 Armor       10 Structure

Air Raft

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Type A Free Trader

Tons: 200 Wedge/AF             Volume: 2800                     Cost: 37.08
Crew: 4                        Hi/Med Pass: 6                   Low Pas: 20
Cargo: 82                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 9

 8 Size Rating                                     1 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                             1 G Thruster Plates
                                                   1 Power Plant Rating (500MW)
                                                  30 Fuel Rating /Scoop
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor       12 Structure

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Type R Subsidized Merchant

Tons: 400 Wedge/AF             Volume: 5600                     Cost: 101.03
Crew: 5                        Hi/Med Pass: 8                   Low Pas: 9
Cargo: 200                     Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 9

 8 Size Rating                                  1 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                          1 G Thruster Plates
                                                1 Power Plant Rating (1000MW)
                                               50 Fuel Rating /Scoop
                                                0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                0 Damper Rating
                                                0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                0 Armor       16 Structure

Launch

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Launch

Tons: 20 Wedge/AF              Volume: 280                      Cost: 14
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 1                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 13                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 7

 7 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 0 Fire Control Rating                             1 G Thruster Plates
                                                   1 Power Plant Rating (50MW)
                                                   1 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   0 A   0 P   0 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        4 Structure

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Type R Subsidized Liner

Tons: 600 Close/No SL          Volume: 8400                     Cost: 236.97
Crew: 9                        Hi/Med Pass: 21                  Low Pas: 20
Cargo: 129                     Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 12

 8 Size Rating                                  3 Jump Drive Rating
 3 Fire Control Rating                          1 G Thruster Plates
                                                3 Power Plant Rating (4500 MW)
                                              210 Fuel Rating
                                                0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                0 Damper Rating
                                                0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                6 A   6 P   6 J  Sensor
                                                0 Armor       19 Structure

Launch

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................

                               Type Y Yacht
Tons: 200 Close/No SL          Volume: 2800                     Cost: 51.057
Crew: 4                        Hi/Med Pass: 9-10                Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 11                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level:  9

 8 Size Rating                                     1 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                             1 G Thruster Plates
                                                   1 Power Plant Rating (500MW)
                                                  50 Fuel Rating
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor       12 Structure

Air Raft
Ship's Boat w/ ATV

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Ship's Boat

Tons: 30 Wedge/AF              Volume: 420                      Cost: 16
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 1                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 4                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 9

 7 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 0 Fire Control Rating                             6 G Thruster Plates
                                                   6 Power Plant Rating
                                                 1.8 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   0 A   0 P   0 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        5 Structure

ATV

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Patrol Cruiser

Tons: 400 Needle/AF            Volume: 5600                     Cost: 221.04
Crew: 18                       Hi/Med Pass: 3                   Low Pas: 4
Cargo: 50                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 12

 8 Size Rating                                     3 Jump Drive Rating
 3 Fire Control Rating                             4 G Thruster Plates
                                                   5 Power Plant Rating
L Battery 1 - 4,4,4,4                            120 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
Msl Battery 18(6)                                  0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   6 A   6 P   6 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor       16 Structure

G Carrier
Ship's Boat

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Broadsword class Mercenary Cruiser

Tons: 800 Sphere/SL            Volume: 11200                    Cost: 632.68
Crew: 13                       Hi/Med Pass: 1                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 80                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 12

 8 Size Rating                                  3 Jump Drive Rating
 5 Fire Control Rating                          3 G Thruster Plates
                                                3 Power Plant Rating (6000 MW)
L Battery 1 - 4,2,1,0                         278 Fuel Rating /Scoop
L Battery 2 - 4,2,1,0                           0 Meson Screen Rating
Msl Battery 3 - 18(6)                           0 Damper Rating
Msl Battery 4 - 18(6)                           0 Sandcaster Rating
                                               10 A  10 P  10 J  Sensor
                                                0 Armor       21 Structure

 2 cutters
 1 air raft

Chief Naval Architects: Marc W. Miller and Loren Wiseman

...............................................................................
                               Cutter (with module)

Tons: 50 Wedge /AF             Volume: 700                      Cost: 30.75
Crew: 2                        Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 1 30-ton module         Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 12

 7 Size Rating                                   0 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                           4 G Thruster Plates
                                                 4 Power Plant Rating (500 MW)
 Msl Battery 3(1)                                2 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                 0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                 0 Damper Rating
                                                 0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                 2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                 0 Armor        8 Structure

Possible module types include:
  ATV cradle with 1 ATV
  Personnel Transport for 60 individuals
  Cargo Transport
  Weapons Module with L battery - 3,1,0,0
  Fighter Frame with 4 6-ton fighters

...............................................................................
                               Cutter (without module)

Tons: 20 Wedge/AF              Volume: 280                      Cost: 30.75
Crew: 2                        Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 0                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 12

 7 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                             6 G Thruster Plates
                                                  10 Power Plant Rating (500MW)
 Msl Battery 3(1)                                  2 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        4 Structure

...............................................................................
                               Modular Fighter

Tons: 6                        Volume: 84                       Cost: 7.245
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 0                       Controls: Mil Std                Tech Level: 12

 6 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 0 Fire Control Rating                             6 G Thruster Plates
                                                   6 Power Plant Rating (90 MW)
 Msl Battery 3(1)                                  1 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   2 A   2 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        1 Structure

...............................................................................
                               Type L Lab Ship

Tons: 400 Close/No SL          Volume: 5600                     Cost: 161
Crew: 5                        Hi/Med Pass: 15                  Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 24                      Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 11

 8 Size Rating                                  2 Jump Drive Rating
 2 Fire Control Rating                          1 G Thruster Plates
                                                2 Power Plant Rating (2000MW)
                                               90 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                0 Damper Rating
                                                0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                4 A   4 P   4 J  Sensor
                                                0 Armor       16 Structure

 Pinnace

 Chief Naval Architect: ??

 The lab ship has 100 tons of lab space.

...............................................................................
                               Pinnace

Tons: 40 Wedge/AF              Volume: 560                      Cost: 20
Crew: 1                        Hi/Med Pass: 1                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 22.4                    Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 8

 7 Size Rating                                     0 Jump Drive Rating
 0 Fire Control Rating                             5 G Thruster Plates
                                                   5 Power Plant Rating(500MW)
                                                   2 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
                                                   0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                   0 Damper Rating
                                                   0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                   0 A   0 P   0 J  Sensor
                                                   0 Armor        7 Structure

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

...............................................................................
                               Animal class Safari Ship

Tons: 200                      Volume: 2800                     Cost: 81.08
Crew: 4                        Hi/Med Pass: 7                   Low Pas: 0
Cargo: 6                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 11

 8 Size Rating                                  2 Jump Drive Rating
 1 Fire Control Rating                          1 G Thruster Plates
                                                2 Power Plant Rating (1000MW)
                                               60 Fuel Rating /Scoop
                                                0 Meson Screen Rating
                                                0 Damper Rating
                                                0 Sandcaster Rating
                                                2 A   4 P   2 J  Sensor
                                                0 Armor       12 Structure

Enclosed Air Raft
20-ton Launch

Chief Naval Architect: Marc W. Miller

Ship has 2 7-ton holding tanks for live specimens and a 7-ton trophy
lounge.

...............................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 21:30:29 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Old Free Traders

Hans Rancke wrote:
 Buy an old ship! A 40 year old starship is worth only 25% of its      |
 original price. Operating expenses are the same and the maintenance
 costs, risk of misjumps and risk of breakdowns are exactly the same!
 With a down payment of MCr2,49 you get a veritable money machine.
 Most expenses stay the same, but bank payments are reduced to
 Cr622,500 per year. To get a decent return on your MCr2,49 all you

The problem with this is someone has to buy the ship new. 

That is unless I didn't understand something in your orignal post


Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #956
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 16 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 957



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE:Back to the old Core Subsector
Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek
Re: HEPlaR and QSDS
[none]
Re: Robots as Ship Crewmembers
THUDDD ballot
THUDDD entries part 3

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:42:28 +0000
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net>
Subject: RE:Back to the old Core Subsector

Allen the GM writes


Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what
it was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
        This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign,
        because I
am NOT going to just pretend that nothing happened. When my players
get back from their little jaunt to the Gushemege sector, they will
find everything...different.
        So guys, help me figure out (in story terms) what happened...
        :)

Allen Shock

Tim the player says

You have to be joking, the only thing I can think of is an imperial 
degree changing the names and locations of the Core and the capital.  
As for how systems physically moved I have no clue. Grandfather, a 
Huge natural disaster,(this may be the physical form of  the phi wave that 
shows its self in MT)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:47:33 -0500
From: jpb@miamisci.org (Joe Block)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: BAB5,Trek

In article <199702110525.XAA03116@eagle.wbm.ca>, Glenn Hoppe
<starcity@eagle.wbm.ca> wrote:


> Oy, YES! The 2nd & 3rd seasons improved *phenomonanally*. In fact, the 
> producer and writer of the series, J. Michael Strazinski (SP?) set a 
> record for writing in a television series: though there were several 
> writers for the first two seasons, JMS wrote *all* the episodes in season 
> 3. The third season was pivotal in his story arc, IIRC, no other writer 
> has *ever* written all the episodes for one year of *any* television 
> series.

JMS is only the first American.  I'm told that several british shows have
had one writer do a whole season.

I just can't watch Trek any more now that I've been exposed to B5 - plot
threads that get followed up on later (sometimes much later), non-perfect
characters, inter-character conflict, politics, I could go on.  Suffice it
to say that may standards have gone up.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Feb 97 21:22:22 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR and QSDS

	
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:05:54 -0500
>From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #952
>
>>> Maneuv: 1-G HEPLAR, 1 std, 140MW, MCr0.1, 5t fuel (40 hrs)
>                                                                         
^^
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Wasn't it reported on here earlier that this is an error in the QSDS
system,
>and that you only have *TWO* hours of fuel here. That's the reason why I
>didn't use HEPlaR on my ship.
>
Yes, actually, that's something I've been on about ever since T4 was
released.  If you want 20 hours of fuel on a HEPlaR equipped ship, you have
to multiply the fuel values in QSDS 1.5 by 20.

HEPlaR can be fun to use in lower-tech craft, but at TL-12 (11? Which is
it?) you might as well use Thrusters.  They're more economical, because the
small amount of savings in the price of the ship is more than made up for
in the amount of volume you /aren't/ using for fuel and can therefore use
for cargo, passengers, weapons, etc.

Jeff, aka
"Grabow Freem"
Benevolent Dictator and Chief Executive Officer
Custom Built Wreckage, IG

P.S.  Plans and data for the "Roland" Far Trader are up on my web page!
	http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:19:50 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: [none]

Hi,
Leonard wrote:
>Well, I assume that you are ignoring the conservation of mass (ie for a
week, the universe is missing the mass of the ship).

Well, the unverise is defined as everyting (At least by one definition)
This would included both J-space and N-space, so the law of mass
conservation would still be valid as long as no mass vanished from the
sum
of the two dimensions.

At least that's how I'd deal with it.                       
Lewis Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:22:59 -0600
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@tfs.net>
Subject: Re: Robots as Ship Crewmembers

Excellant idea.  I am going to start using it, in my campaigns.

- ----------
> From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Robots as Ship Crewmembers
> Date: Sunday, February 16, 1997 8:14 PM
> 
> 
> I'd try out a steward if folks didn't mind too much - the robot is
> available 24/7, compared to the sleep patterns of a human steward.  If
> humans don't care for non-human care, I can easily see robot
> communications officers and navigators, maybe even engineers.  I'd assume
> pilot might be last, since people might want a person to actually "fly"
> the ship, even if the computer was doing most of the work.
>  
> 
JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:31:23 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD ballot

        It's 10:30, I've just come back from my brother-in-law's place,
where he and his girlfriend plied us with wine, couscous, more wine, more
couscous, more wine, etc, and I wanna crash.  If anyone gets a THUDDD entry
to me between now and midnight, I'll post it in the morning.


THUDDD Ballot

        Alright people, this is real simple.  For this THUDDD, I've made an
executive decision to keep the voting straightforward.  Paul may of course
change things once he takes over.  You've just got to fill in five numbers
for each ship.  Do not vote for your own design.  Ratings are from a scale
of 1 to 10, 10 being highest.  The categories are:

Overall: how do you rate the design overall?  You may take everything into
account.

Commercial Feasibility: how commercially feasible is the design?  How much
would you want to be trying to make money with this design?

Innovativeness: How cool is it?  Has the designer done anything really
nifto with it?

Roleplaying potential: How useful would this be in a campaign?  Do you
think it'd be a fun ship to build a campaign around?

Freedom from glaring design errors and broken rules: How badly did the
designer screw up?  Here, perfect error freedom should rate a 10.  I
suggest being harsh on this one; miscalculating power plant requirements
like I did on the CDB-2 should be cause for having no mercy.


        You can add any comments (note; sound bite good: doctoral
dissertation bad) below the total line.


**********************************************
New Victoria T-300 Series Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Phoenix Corporation Type P-200AL Longship (Far Trader)

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Entry by John R. Snead jsnead@netcom.com
Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Brave Heart Class Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Apogee Aerospace Ltd, Marco-Polo class Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Deneb Corporation Model 3-b "Far Trader"

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
LTD SAMARKAND-Class Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Custom Built Wreckage Roland class Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Ketaru Aerospace "Star"-class Far Liner

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
PICH-1/2 "Far Trader"

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Far Trader - Rhodes Yards Vicuna

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Burov class Far Trader (Type FL, passenger liner)

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
YugoBox J2 Far Trader (QSDS 1.5)

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************


**********************************************
transRift Engineering Corporation Greyhound-Class Far Trader (SSDS)

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************


**********************************************
Catullus Aerospace Spendthrift Class

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
Generica Shipyards Type 3726 - Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:32:00 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD entries part 3

***********************************************
***********************************************


This is a strictly freight hauling version:

YugoBox J2 Far Trader (QSDS 1.5)

Tons: 200 Std (Box S)  Volume: 2800 m^3           Cost: 57.8 MCr
Crew: 2                High/Mid Pass: 0/2         Low: 0
Cargo: 115.5 Std       Controls: Std Civ.         TL: 12

8 Size                 2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                       1 Maneuver (Thruster)
                       1.3 Power Plant (10+20+100 MW)
                       41 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 3)
                       A1 P3 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                       0 Armor, 6 Structure

Crew Detail: Max Crew:4 (1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer, 1 Sensor)
             Typical: 2 (1 Pilot/Navigator 1 Engineering/Electronics)


Here's my take on YugoBox economics:

Total cost:     57.8 MCr
Down Payment:   11.56 MCr

Monthly Mortgage:       0.241 MCr
Crew Salaries (2)       0.009
Life support            0.004
ann maintenance         0.005
Fuel                    0         that's why we have scoops! (even though,
at 3 dT/hour it'll take over 13 hours to purify a full fuel load...not
exactly quick getaway time!)

Total monthly           0.259 mCr

Cargo                   0.231  mCr/month
(2 trips / month 115.5 dT cargo, 1000Cr/dT)
Passengers              0.040 mCr/month
(2 trips/month 2 mid passengers each time, though this would be a rather
'roughing it' approach to star travel)

You can't break even. Not with just freight! With a full load of
passengers each trip, you only make about 10,000 credits profit a trip.
This wouldn't be economical at all, unless you could absolutely be sure of
filling your hold and spare staterooms each and every run.

If you just haul freight, with  a standard crew, or even a skeleton crew,
you're going to go broke.


***********************************************
***********************************************

TK-108 Far Trader

Tammuz-Karst is pleased to announce it has completed preliminary
design of the TK-108 Far Trader.  We believe this ship represents
the best reasonable balanced design to the general Far Trader
conceptual configuration.  We note, however, that following the
standard economic models for monthly gross and rate of return
indicates that the TK-108 will not be profitable.  This is a
generic problem with small jump-2 transports at the current
level of technology, not limited to the TK-108, and we feel
that innovative use of the ship and trading potential can give
useful profitable service from this and similar models.
Potential owners are cautioned however that they may well
face difficulties in this regard.

While certain detailed layout designs are being kept proprietary
at this time, the general specifications are being announced here
to provide buyers with public comparison information vis-a-vis
other proposed or proprietary products.

Tons: 200 Std (S Disk)  Vol: 2800 m^3           Cost: MCr62.1
Crew: 9                 High/Mid Pax: 10        Low: 0
Cargo: 53 Std tons      Controls: Std Civilian  TL: 12

8 Size                  2 Jump Drive (40 Std / 2 Pc Fuel)
                        1 Maneuver Drive (HEPLAR, 140 MW, 40 G-hrs)
01 Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0  2 Power Plant (275 MW)
02 Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0  48 Fuel
                        0 Meson Sc
                        0 Sandcasters
                        0 Nuc Damp
                        A2 P3 J0 Sensors
                        10 Armor  9 Structure

Crew detail: 1 engineer, 1 electronics, 2 maneuver, 2 gunners,
                1 command, 1 steward, 1 medical

Notes:
HEPLAR was chosen as a cost reduction measure: you save a bit over 5 MCr
of raw price (3.something with QSDS multiplier) with HEPLAR and a larger
powerplant versus Thrusters.  On the other hand, there are slightly more
capabilities in some areas than purely necessary (Improved sensor and
commo gear, and 2 standard laser turrets).  Unless the ship will be operated
on purely internal runs, those extras are worth it, and Far Traders are
most likely to make their profits on the fringe.  40 G-hrs is enough
for realistic maneuver needs.

Design sequence: QSDS 1.5 [note that I ignore surface area on civilian ships;
you almost never run out and it's a pain (cf the BSDS discussions)]

Hull: 200 ton Disk S, 2-G max, 10 arm, 9 struct, 189.6 Std useful,
        54.6MW, MCr8.8
Jump: J-2, 6 std (+40 t fuel), MCr25.2, 0.2 eng crew
Maneuv: 1-G HEPLAR, 1 std, 140MW, MCr0.1, 5t fuel (40 hrs)
Controls: Std civ, 1.7 tons, 1.3MW, MCr9.2
Sensor: Improved, 0.3t, 12.6MW, MCr7.4, 0.4 elec crew, A2P3J0
Commo: Improved, 0.0t, 10.6MW, MCr0.3, 0.4 elec crew
Weaps: 2 26MW input civ turrets, 6.0t, 53.4MW, MCr2.8, USP (0) 1/2-0-0-0
Crew: 1 eng 1 elec 2 maneuv 2 gnr 1 cmd 1 steward 1 medic (9 total)
        7 workstations, 3.5t, MCr0.014 (no bridge req)
Quarters: 1 small 1 large staterooms for Crew (20t, MCr0.42)
        10 large staterooms for passengers (40t, MCr1.0)
Cargo: 53.4t remaining: 53t std cargo, 0.4t ships locker
Cost: MCr82.734 std, 62.0505 w/QSDS discount (62.1)


***********************************************
***********************************************


transRift Engineering Corporation
Greyhound-Class Far Trader (SSDS)

Tons:   200 Std (Needle A/F)    Volume: 2800 m^3        Cost:   62.5 MCr
Crew:   6                       Mid Pass:       12
Low:    0
Cargo:  93 Std  Controls: TL12 HiAuto (Bridge)TL: 12

08 Size                                 02 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                                01 Maneuver (T-Plate, 2,000
T/Thr)
01x95MJ Civ Laser (0) 1/2-0-0-0 1.0 Power Plant (2 x 50 MW)
                                                41 Fuel (Scoop 41, Refine
8.3)
                                                00 Meson Screen (0 MW)
                                                00 Sandcasters (000 cans)
                                                00 Nuclear Damper
                                                A4 P4 J0 (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                                00 Meson Screen (0 MW)
                                                01 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail:
1 Pilot, 1 Astrogator, 1 Gunner, 1 Medic/Steward, 1 Engineer, 1 Sensor

Financial Information:

Down Payment:           12.5 MCr

        Expense:                Monthly Cost:
Monthly Payment         260 KCr
Monthly Crew Costs:      22 KCr
Monthly Life Support:    56 KCr
Annual Maintenance:       5 KCr
Unrefined Fuel (80 Std)   8 KCr

        Total Expense:  351 KCr

        Income Category Max per Trip:
Cargo                            93 KCr
Mail                              0
Middle Passage           96 KCr

        Total Income:   189 KCr
        x2 per Month:   378 KCr

Maximum Net Income:      27 KCr/Month

The break-even point can be achieved with either 27 Std less than maximum
cargo or three less than the maximum number of middle passengers.

Press Release: Imperial Day 47
The transRift Engineering Corporation is pleased to announce its first
offering to the citizens of Imperium space, the Greyhound-class Far Trader.
The Greyhound-class ships build on very successful tREC military and
civilian designs in widespread use throughout the Rifts. Under normal
operating conditions on the fringes of Imperial space with wilderness
refueling, the ship is well capable of operating at a profit for
live-aboard owner-operators. When operating in regions such as the Rifts,
where a premium can be charged for rapid transportation of passengers and
high-value cargo across the large distances, the Greyhound comes into its
own. With the installation of collapsible fuel tanks (at an initial cost of
only 6.4 MCr and loss of 2 Std of cargo space when not in use), the
Greyhound can travel four parsecs in two weeks compared to months of travel
required by the standard jump-1 bulk carriers.

The Greyhound is designed around the cost-effective tREC 200-Std superdense
needle airframe hull. The airframe design provides for maximum flexibility
and safety in planetary atmospheres including wilderness refueling. The
incorporation of passive armor provides the added measure of survivability
frequently needed in frontier operations. Although classified as middle
passage by Imperial regulations, the passenger accommodations are uniquely
designed to provide maximum comfort on extended journeys. Each passenger is
provided with a large private self-contained and soundproofed sleeping
module (fifty-percent larger than an Imperium standard bunk) fully equipped
with a variety of entertainment options which opens onto an unusually
spacious central common area. The luxuriously appointed common area and
galley (84 m^3) supported by the full-time steward and medic provide the
Greyhounds passengers with a level of service not normally encountered in
Imperial middle passage.

The Greyhound is laid out in a two deck design with the lower deck
dedicated to cargo. The ships bridge is located in the nose with the pilots
and navigators cabins directly adjacent. Aft of the control section is the
passenger area. The bunk room for the remainder of the crew, the laser
turret, and the engine rooms are located in the ships tail.


***********************************************
***********************************************


SSDS Spaceship: Catullus Aerospace Spendthrift Class

                        Universal Ship Profile
Tons: 200 Std (SL Dome)  Volume: 2800 m^3         Cost: 58.1 MCr
Crew: 4                  High/Med Pass: 15/0      Low: 0
Cargo: 70 Std            Controls: Std Civilian   TL: 12

08 Size                          2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                 1 Maneuver (1G Thruster Plates,50MW)
                                 1 Power Plant (2x50Mw)
                                 41 Std Fuel
                                 A1 P2 J0 Sensors
                                 0 Armour, 6 Structure

Crew Detail - 1 Electronics, 2 Maneuvering and 1 Steward.

Notes

Catullus unveils its first public starship design. This is based on a
custom design made for a Hazan based pilot who wanted a basic ship for a
courier run. As such we recommend that the ship be used as an owner/operator
affair. This is because the profit per trip is 13KCr given a full load of
passengers and cargo.

A number of our trademark design features have been included in this design.
Highly automated dynamic controls are used throughout the Spendthrift class
starship. This means that we have been able to make a design in which the
ships systems can be managed entirely from the bridge. Catullus does,
however, recommend that the Spendthrift class starship, like any other, not
be run without some knowledge of ship's engineering.

Along with the low crew requirements we have provided a secure design
incorporating separation of passengers to the middle, larger deck; advanced
anti-hijacking facilities and programs; and secure passageways between the
upper operational areas and the lower engineering deck. A large stateroom
is provided on the middle deck for each passenger. A small stateroom is
provided for each crew member on the upper deck.


Design Details
Spaceship Name: Catullus Aerospace Spendthrift Class
Tech Level: 12
Displacement: 200
Spaceship Component List
Component                  Mass     Volume   Surf Area     Power    Price
200t S Dome/Disc A:0 1G     11.95  -2793.23    -1074        0.002   0.021
2 parsec Jump Drive        252        84          28        0      25.2
1G Thruster Plates         100        50          10       50      12.5
High auto Dynamic Ctrls      0.32      3.22        0        0.23    0.345
TL 12 Standard Civilian     10.1      24          18       13.36   12.02
Standard Life Sup           22.4      22.4         0        0.56    1.4
Artificial Gravity          56        28           0       14       1.4
Large Stateroom (x15)       60       840           0        0.015   1.5
Small Stateroom (x4)         8       112           0        0.002   0.16
50MW TL12 Fusion Plnt (x2) 200        50           0     -100      10
Regular WorkStation (x4)     0.8      28           0        0       0.006
Cargo                      245       980           0        0       0
Large Cargo Hatch (x2)       0         0          40        0       0.04
Fuel                        40.25    575           0        0       0
Total                     1006.62     -3.61     -978      -21.831  64.59

Passengers
Low  0
Middle  0
High  15

Costing:
Downpayment                   11.6 MCr

Monthly Standard Costs
Monthly Repayments          242083 Cr
Monthly Crew Salary          19000 Cr
Monthly Maintenance Cost      4842 Cr

Total                       265925 Cr/Month      3191100 Cr/ Year

Per Trip Standard Costs
Fuel 41 Std @ 500
Fuel Per Trip                20500
Crew LifeSupport (4)          8000
Berthing Fees                  100

Total                        28600 Cr/Trip        686400 Cr/ Year

Per Trip Income
Num High Passengers             15
High Passage Profit         120000
Total Cargo Capacity            70
Max Available Cargo             55
Amt Cargo Transported           55
Cargo carriage fee            1000
Cargo Profit                 55000

Total                       175000 Cr/Trip       4200000 Cr/ Year

Profit                       13438 Cr/Trip        322500 Cr/ Year

Break evenpoint is 67 tonnes of cargo and no passengers.


***********************************************
***********************************************


Generica Shipyards Type 3726 - Far Trader  (QSDS v. 1.5)

Tons: 200 Std (Box S)   Volume: 2800 m^3                Cost: 64.71 MCr
Crew: 4+2                       High/Mid Pass: 3/7              Low: 4
(emergency only)
Cargo: 67.2 Std         Controls: TL12 Civilian TL: 12

Size: 8                                 2 Jump Drive (40 Tons Fuel)
                                        1 Maneuver Drive (ThrustPlate, 56 Mw)
2x TL12 Civilian Laser (0)1/2-0-0-0     42.2 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 3)
                                        0 Meson Screen
                                        0 Sandcasters
                                        0 Nuclear Dampers
1x Air Raft (4 Tons)                    A1 P5 J0 Sensors
                                        0 Armor, 6 Structure

Crew Detail:    1 Engineer, 1 Electronic, 2 Maneuver,
                2 Gunners/Medical/Stewards


Economics (Yearly costs, 25 trips/year)

1) Finance Cost
        Down Payment: 12.924 MCr
        Yearly Finance Cost: 3.2355 MCr                       3,235,500
2) Crew Salaries: Pilot 6,000/Month; Navigator 5,000
        Engineer, Electronics 4,000;
        Gunner/Stewards/Medical 2x2,000                         276,000
3) Life Support:  16 staterooms                                 800,000
4) Annual Maintenance                                            64,710
5) Fuel Cost: Unrefined fuel                                    105,500

TOTAL EXPENSES                                                4,481,710

Income
        3 High Passage                                          750,000
        7 Middle Passage                                      1,400,000
        67.2 Tons cargo                                       1,680,000

TOTAL INCOME                                                  3,830,000


Description:
        The Generica Shipyards Type 3726 Far Trader is designed for
operations at or beyond the boundaries of the Imperium involving freight
transport for speculation.  Redundant power  and weapons systems allow
prolonged operations without access to shop facilities.  In particular,
the power plant is considerably oversized, allowing upgrades to other
systems without major refit, and continued safe operation despite minor
power supply degradation.  The fuel purification system ensures safe
operations in regions without port facilities.
        Built using standard Sylea Industry Norm (SIN) components, the
Type 3726 offers excellent performance without high cost.  Custom options
in terms of included components are facilitated by prefabricated modules
designed to fit the hull without internal modifications.  Please consult
with Generica about design options.
        One large stateroom is provided for the Owner/Operator or Pilot,
with meeting space for private conferences with clients.  The other five
crewmembers are housed in standard small staterooms.  Two of these
staterooms is located next to the maneuver crewstations to allow rapid
response in emergency.  Three large and seven small staterooms are located
in a separate area for passengers.  An emergency low berth is provided in
the cargo area to allow transport of large animals or to hold passengers
injured or taken ill during flight.  Imperial regulations do not allow the
regular transport of paying passengers in such berths, so these berths are
not included in the standard economics statement included with this
catalog description.
        Cargo space is allocated in one large bay, centrally located.
Holddowns are provided for the standard 4 ton enclosed air raft, which is
included in the ships purchase price.  The air raft serves as an approved
escape vehicle, and also provides the crew with on-world transport,
enhancing trading opportunities.
        The Type 3726 is not designed for regular freight service within
Imperial boundaries, as standard Imperial passenger and freight rates do
not allow profitable operation.  Rather, it is designed for the flexible
transport of urgent cargoes on a speculative basis.  Customers interested
in ships for service inside the Imperium are referred to Generica
Shipyards Types 2461 through 2547 or Types 3411 through 3609.

****Roleplaying Off:
        As is probably obvious, this is a fairly faithful duplication of
the Far Trader from Classic Traveller.  The only changes are the
substitution of several small staterooms for the large ones in the
original - an exact duplication of the CT design has even worse economics
than this ship.  The decision to allocate 3 large and 7 small staterooms
to this space is based on the passenger generation tables in the T4
rulebook - you usually get about twice as many mid passengers as high.
        The large crew (six in all) for such a small ship is deliberate;
it allows space for player characters, as well as an NPC or two if the
group is small.  In economic terms it makes less sense, but who cares?
        Notice that the two cabins mentioned as being next to the bridge
are the ones noted in the CT design as being used by greedy owners to
enhance profits.  By hot bunking the crew, two additional middle
passengers can be carried.  Combine this with scooping fuel, and you can
break even, just about.
        It is possible to build a Far Trader that will make money, at
least theoretically, but they tend not to be much fun for player
characters.  The addition of four or more middle passenger cabins to this
design would make it theoretically profitable, though the passenger spaces
would likely be filled only if the ship was serving high pop (8+) worlds.




        Get to it, people!

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #957
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 16 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 958



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

THUDDD entries part 1
THUDDD entries part 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:31:34 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD entries part 1

THUDD submissions:

        All right!  Here they are, in the order that they were submitted to
me.  All TML'ers are welcome to judge them, so long as their ballots are
submitted by Sunday 23rd Feb 1993.

        You're requested to snip the ballot in a subsequent post, fill it
out, and mail it back to myself at <rellio@ po-box.mcgill.ca>, with a cc to
<tiger@goldinc.com>.  I'll tally them up, as will Paul, and post the
rankings.


***********************************************

New Victoria T-300 Series Far Trader (QSDS1.4)

Tons: 300 Std (Wedge SL)  Volume:   4200 m^3           Cost: 69.2 MCr
Crew: 9                   High/Mid Pass: 12            Low: 0
Cargo: 127 Std            Controls: Standard           TL: 12
08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (30 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (Thruster)
01x Civilian Laser 01-00-00-00        01 Power Plant (75+75+20+20)
                                      62 Fuel (Scoop 120, Refine 0)
                                      00 Meson Screen
                                      00 Sandcasters (0 Cans)
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P3 J0 Sensors
                                      10 Armor, 11 Structure
Crew Detail: 01 Command, 01 Sensors, 01 Gunners, 01 Engineer, 02 Steward
             02 Maneuver, 01 Medic


Notes:
        New Victoria Naval Architects LIC, announces their bid for
the THUDD Far Trader specification, the T-300 series. Capable of
jump-2, and carrying 12 high or middle passangers and 127 dspTons of
cargo, the T-300 meets all the basic demands of the civilian Far
Trader specification, as well as the requirements of the IISS
Communications Bureau for the carriage of Imperial Mail. As in all of
NVNA's designs, flexability is a key feature - an outsize power plant
provides for the addition of extra weapons or sensors, while the cargo
area can easily be reconfigured at any shipyard, allowing the vessel
to be customised to meet the needs of individual captains. Crew
spaces are also flexible, the three large and three small staterooms
providing adequete space for up to nine crew. As there is little need
for a full-time medic on a vessel with such a small number of
passangers, this position is often combined with that of the second
stewards, thus allowing the addition of a second gunner (for the
security conscious), or allowing the captain to have a large
stateroom to herself.
        In response to queries about the absence of a fuel
purification plant in the design, an NVNA spokesman replied that "the
T-300 was designed so that it could be constructed with components
straight out of the Imperial Standard Data Package. Unfortunately,
the ISDP fuel purifiers were vastly overrated for our needs, and the
addition of a stock model would have had an adverse effect on the
designs profitability". NVNA is understood to be lobbying the
Imperial Ministry of Technology for the addition of a smaller, 5
dspT / hour fuel purifier to the ISDP.


Revenue Breakdown:
Per trip:       12 * high passanger [- L/S]             96 kCr
                127 dspT cargo                         127 kCr
                61 dspT refined fuel @ 0.5 kCr        - 30.5 kCr
                Crew L/S                               - 9 kCr
                Total revenue per trip:                183.5 kCr

Per month:      Monthly payment                        288.3 kCr
                Maintenance fund                         5.8 kCr
                Crew salaries                         ~ 33 kCr
                Total expenses per month:            ~ 327.1 kCr

(Maximum) Revenue: 25 trips per year            4587.5 kCr
Expenses: 12 months                           - 3925.2 kCr
(Maximum) profit per year                        662.3 kCr

 Customisation of the vessel may reduce profitability; for example,
the addition of a standard ISDN fuel purifier reduces yearly profits
to ~100 kCr, making the margin for error much tighter. Note that the
design can break even at roughly 85 % of a full load. Acquiring an
Imperial mail service contract lowers this break-even point to ~78%,
and almost doubles the maximum yearly profit.

***********************************************


The Phoenix Corporation announces the availablity of the P-200AL

Type P-200AL Longship (Far Trader) [QSDS]

Tons: 200 Std (Box SL)    Volume: 2800 m^3             Cost: 57.3 MCr
Crew: 7                   High/Mid Pass: 16            Low: 0
Cargo: 22 Std             Controls: Std Civilian       TL: 12

8 Size                                2 Jump Drive (40 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      1 Maneuver (Thrust plate, 56 Mw)
1x Light Laser Cannon (0) 1/1-0-0-0   1.5 Power Plant (2x 75Mw)
                                      41.6 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 10)
                                      0 Meson Screen
                                      0 Sandcasters
                                      0 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P3 J0 Sensors
                                      0 Armor, 6 Structure

Crew Detail: Pilot, Astrogator, Engineer, Sensor Op, Steward/Gunner
             Steward, Medic

Notes:
The P-200AL is designed to be an affordable and economically viable long
range commercial starship. The P-200AL is constructed using standard
modular component, the P-200AL can be easily maintained by a large number
of dockyards throughout charted space. The P-200AL is intended to
concentrate on the carriage of passengers and smaller high value cargos,
rather than attempting to compete inefficently with larger bulk carriers.

The P-200AL is fitted with a standard Hughes HHS-4RY jump drive giving
it a range of 2 parsecs and carries 40 tons of jump fuel internally. The
P-200AL is fully streamlined permitting atmospheric operations and is
capable of wilderness refueling from gas giants or local oceans; and it's
onboard Mitre VML fuel purification plant permits a full load fuel to be
processed in 4 hours 10 minutes (at a throughput rate of 10 tons per hour).
In system maneuver is provided by two Zimm GTL-R7 gravitic thruster units.
Each unit provides up to 1,400 tons thrust giving a sustained acceleration
of 1G. Power for these and other onboard systems is provided by a coupled
pair of Simmens EG-R54/e 75Mw fusion reactors utilising the latest cold
fusion technology. The 1600 Kg of L-Hyd fuel dedicated to the reactors
provides for up to one year's continuous operation.

The P-200AL is fitted with a Matsui ASC-12 intergrated control, sensor
and communication package. This package meets all Imperial astrospace
regulations (including a regulation Imperial tamper proof ID transponder).
It includes regulation avionics, short ranged AEMS and PEMS sensors, a
3000km range radio and 1000AU range laser communicator. Any individual
component can be easily removed for maintaince or replacement.

The P-200AL comes with a standard Phoenix PL(C)-4 light laser cannon.
No dedicated gunner is provided for, but a work station is provided to
enable another crew member to operate the weapon should it prove nccessary.

The crew of seven are provided with one large stateroom for the Captain
and six small staterooms for the other crew members. The crew are provided
with communal sanitary and food preparation areas to maximise the amount
of space available in the individual staterooms.

Sixteen large passenger staterooms are provided along with 22 dTons of
dedicated cargo space. An insulated, sound proofed 2.4m false ceiling is
provided throughout the passenger areas, enabling unsightly machinery and
conduates to be hidden from view, greatly increasing passenger comfort.
Each passenger stateroom is provided with individual sanitary facilities
and a small galley. However more extensive food preparation and dining
facilities are provided in the common areas, enabling the shared commaradarie
that provides much of the romance of space travel. The standard crew list
provides for two stewards and a medic to ensure passenger comfort and
wellbeing. 22 dTons of cargo space is provided for the carriage of small
cargos. The cargo bay is well isolated from the passenger area to provide
security and safety.

The annual operating costs of the P-200AL are Cr 2,019,600 (assuming
the purchase of unrefined fuel and full lifesupport costs)
    [DESIGN NOTE: I've assumed a monthly salary of Cr3,000 for the
                  sensor operator and Cr3,300 for the Steward/Gunner]
Standard annual finance costs are Cr 2,292,000
Giving an annual running cost of Cr 4,311,600

Assuming a full load of high passengers and cargo the P-200AL can generate
Cr 4,550,000 income per year (assuming 25 jumps per annum). This results in
the P-200AL giving a 94.7% Required Breakeven Occupancy (RBO). If a mail
contract can be secured the maximum income increases to Cr 5,050,000,
reducing the RBO to 85.4%. If wilderness refueling is used, the operating
costs fall to Cr 3,811,600 enabling a RBO of 83.8% without a mail contract
or 75.5% with a mail contract. The P-200AL is ideal for engaging in
speculative trade which can greatly increase the ships profitablity.

***********************************************

Entry by John R. Snead jsnead@netcom.com

Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System): Far Trader (SSDS)
Tons: 200 Std (Box)    Volume: 2800 m^3           Cost: 54 MCr
Crew: 4                High/Mid Pass: 6          Low: 0
Cargo: 54 Std  (+5 tons mail)      Controls: Type (Bridge)      TL: 12
8 Size                     3 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                           2 Maneuver (T-Plate, 50 Mw)
                           1 Power Plant (1x 100 Mw)
                       61.1 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 2.56 tons/hour)
1x Light Laser battery - 1/1,0,0,0
1x Minimal Hangar (1.5 Std Air Raft)  A1 P2 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
1x 3 Std turret-socket lifeboat
                           0 Armor, 9 Structure
Crew Detail: 1 Command/Maneuver, 1 Sensors/Gunner,1 Engineer,
1 Steward/Medic

[[I did make one change wrt the SSDS.  It has always seemed quite silly
that the fuel purification plants listed in T4 are designed to process
huge amount so fuel rapidly, with little regard for their size.  CT, MT, &
TNE all listed much lower size limit on fuel purification plants, with a
correspondingly lower capacity.  I've followed those guidelines for the
fuel purification plant on this ship, which has a fuel purifier with a
volume of 86 m3.]]

     The Tauri Lines Far Trader is a ship designed for exploratory trading
on the rim of the Imperium.  This ship is designed for speculative trade
with newly contacted areas.  It comes equipped with the latest safety
features, including a 3 ton, 10 passenger, turret- socket lifeboat, a
light laser turret for protection, and to allow the ship to carry Imperial
mail.  Also standard is a 23 m^3 , 6 seat, air raft for venturing down to
unknown or possibly worlds.  While somewhat more expensive than standard
ships, this vessel's ability to make 3 parsec jumps as well as its
numerous safety features should make it the ship of choice for adventurous
merchants.

Turret Socket Lifeboat: TL 12
Displacement 3.0 (USP 6)
Volume: 42.0 m3
Configuration: Cylinder, Streamlined
Dimensions:  4.2 m x 3.6 m x 3.6 m

Structural Material: TL 12 Superdense

Chassis: 6 G rated
Armor: 1 cm  TL 12 Superdense
Armor rating: 11 on all facings

Power Plant [TL 12] TL 12 Fusion+, 12 MW
Fuel Consumption: [TL12]  0.38 m3 per 100 hours
Fuel Volume [TL 12] x1 enriched water
Fuel Carried (TL 12) 400 hours)

Propulsion: TL 11+ Thruster, 400 tons thrust (10 MW)
Crew: 1 Pilot roomy seating
           9 crew, roomy seating
           (all seats fold out to minimal bunks)

Options:
Grav Compensation on entire vehicle: 3 g
Standard Life Support, with kitchen (crew compartment)
Fire Suppression System
Cramped 2 m3 airlock
TL 12 small vehicle far orbit radio with direction finder
TL 12 small vehicle far orbit radio with directional antenna
TL 12 orbital active EMS (civilian)
TL 12 orbital passive EMS (civilian)
2 x TL 12 rating 4 computers
Emergency wall patch
Auto pilot:  8
Survival kit locker: 1 m3
Cargo compartment:  1 m3
Total Cost:  4.1 MCr

     The turret socket lifeboat is the smallest lifeboat commonly made.
It is designed to fit exactly into a standard turret socket and can carry
up to10 passengers.  The lifeboat is designed to be used for up to 16
days.  While its accommodations are far from comfortable, they are
adequate to maintain the occupants in good health.

     The lifeboat is equipped with a normal set of controls and can be
operated by a single trained pilot.  If no one on board is able to pilot
the lifeboat it's autopilot is programmed to remove it from the vicinity
of the damaged ship, broadcast an emergency signal and head for the
nearest habitable planet.  The lifeboat's sensors are equivalent to
minimal civilian starship sensors and avionics, with the addition of much
more powerful communication gear.  The lifeboat and it is fully capable of
making a safe landing on almost any planet, without the aid of external
traffic control..

     If there is no habitable planet nearby the lifeboat will head for the
nearest planet which it can safely land on, or failing that, it will take
up orbit around a nearby gas giant.  The lifeboat has a locker containing
10 individual survival kits, 10 simple vac suits, 3 survival stills, 3
full medical kits, 2 survival tents, and 2 emergency beacons.

Economic Data:

1) 10.8 million Credits down
     225,000 Credits/month

2) Monthly crew salaries:

6,000 - Pilot
6,000 - Navigator-gunner
4,000 - Engineer
2,000 - Steward-Medic

18,000 Credits/month

3) Monthly life support costs:

40,000 credits/month

4) Annual maintenance costs:

54,000 Credits/year
4,500 Credits/month

5) Refueling costs:

12,220 Credits month (unrefined)

6) Total monthly costs:

299,720 Credits/month

7) Maximum monthly revenues:

108,000/month cargo
50,000/month mail
120,000/month high passengers

Total Revenue:  278,000 Credits/month

generating a shortfall of 21,720 Credits/month

8) Break-even point:

Clearly this ship must engage in trading and speculation.  However, given
that this ship can get goods from point to point 50% faster than
conventional traders, in an era when no ships can possibly get there
faster this is not an unwarranted assumption.


***********************************************


     Brave Heart Class Far Trader  (QSDS)

Tons: 200Std (Box)   Volume: 2800m^3                   Cost: 60.555 MCr
Crew: 3              Mid Psg: 10                       ELB: 12
Cargo: 133.9Std      Controls: Improved TL12/Bridge    TL: 12

8 Size                                           2 Jump Drive (40Std/Pc Fuel)
                                                 1G Man Drive (T-Plate, 56Mw)
                                                 1.3 PP (100 + 20 + 10 Mw)
                                                 80 Fuel (Refine 3 tons/hour)
                                                 0 Meson Screen
                                                 1 Sandcaster (30 cans)
                                                 0 Nuclear Dampers
                                                 A3 P3 J0
                                                 0 Armour, 6 Structure

Crew Detail: 1 Pilot/Astrogator, 1 Engineer/Electrician, 1 Medic/Steward

Notes: How many times have you wondered why you paid for all those weapons
(and gunner's salaries) only to find they're never used for trip after
trip?

The Brave Heart could be your answer.

Not a ship to take into battle, the 200 ton Brave Heart Class Far Trader
(sometimes called the 'Brave Trader') is primarily for use on secure trade
routes.

This ship emphasises trading capability and income generation with 134 tons
of cargo capacity and ten mid passage staterooms.  There's plenty of room
on the cargo deck for a 4 ton Air/Raft (not included).

This ship can even make a profit just carrying cargo and middle passengers
- - with speculation, the universe is your oyster.


Financial Notes:

1       Downpayment = MCr 12.111
     Monthly payments = Cr 252,312/month

2 Salaries
     Pilot          Cr 6000/month
     Engineer   Cr 4000/month
     Medic          Cr2000/month

3       Life support = Cr 48,000/month

4       Annual Maintenance = Cr 5,046/month

5       Fuel = Cr 16,000/month (unrefined)

6       Total Expenditure = Cr 333,358/month

7       Cargo = Cr 267,800/month
     10 Mid Psg = 80,000/month

     Total Income = Cr 347,800/month

8       Revenue = Cr 14,442/month

***********************************************


Apogee Aerospace Ltd, Marco-Polo class Far Trader (SSDS)

Tons: 200 Std (Slab S/L)  Volume: 2800 m^3                   Cost: 59.63 MCr
Crew: 2                   Mid Pass: 10                       Low: 0
Cargo: 94 Std             Controls: TL12 Dynamic Linked      TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (280 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 2,000 T/Thr)
02x empty light turret sockets        1.0 Power Plant (1x 100Mw)
                                      40 Fuel (S40, R25)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      00 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 1 Pilot/Navigator, 1 Engineer/Electronics.
Full Crew: 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Electronics, 1 Engineer and up to
           2 gunners.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------

Down payment: 11.93 Mcr

Monthly payment: 248,458 Cr
Monthly crew salaries: 10,000 Cr
Monthly crew life support costs: 4,000 Cr
Annual maintenance costs (Monthly): 4,969 Cr
Fuel costs: 8,010 Cr
Total Monthly Costs: 275,437 Cr

Maximum monthly revenue: 308,000 Cr
Maximum profit : 32,563 Cr

Break even point: 89.4%  (Full cargo and 7.5 passengers,
                          or Full passengers and 78 tons of cargo)

- -------------------------------------------------------------------

After the recent buyout of Apogee Aerospace by the custom ship design
house Excession Shipyards, the future looked uncertain for Apogee.
However it seems Excession has relaunched Apogee as a mass-production
line, with the first model off the drawing boards and into production
being the Marco-Polo class Frontier trader.

Apparently named for a legendary Solomani trader, this ship is aimed
at the small trader market, with a special niche in mobility.
According to a press release from Apogee the ship is designed for
"exploring and breaking new markets off the beaten track."

Apogee claims that although the ship will only show marginal profit in
the Imperial core (and according to our research only with a full
hold), its real market is going to be speculative traders travelling
to the edges of the Imperium and even beyond.  To this end the ship
has been equiped with a fuel purifier, and allowances have been made
for two standard 97Mj small laser turrets.  Although fully crewing the
ship under these circumstances would reduce the number of cabins
available to mid level passengers to six, increased charges, and the
availability of speculative trade in such areas should more than make
up the difference.  (We think due to the low ammount of armour on this
model perhaps a sand-caster would be a better idea than a second laser
turret?)

The exterior of the ship shows Excession's trade mark lack of exterior
windows.  Instead the panoramic views available in the staterooms and
bridge are really external camera shots displayed on ultra-high
resolution screens, whilst this doesn't actually give the feeling of
actually "being" there, the designers point out the obvious weakpoints
in the hull of a ship caused by large windows, and claim that many of
their passengers actually prefered the feeling of security this
arrangement generates.

This allows the internal arrangement of the ship to be somewhat
unusual.  The cargo hold is actually at the front of the ship with the
ship's single large cargo hatch prominent at the nose of the craft.
Next back from that are the passenger and crew cabins, and behind
those the crew only flight deck and engineering areas.  The proximity
of these last two areas apparently makes it much easier for a small
crew to effectively manage a ship of this size.

The overall feeling here is the Marco-Polo is a well balanced ship
with good prospects in the Far Trader market.  It appears to be
slightly expensive as compared to other ships in this market, but
whether this is big enough to make much of an impact has yet to be
seen.

***********************************************

Deneb Corporation Model 3-b "Far Trader" (QSDS)

Tons: 200 Std (Box S)     Volume:   2800 m^3           Cost: 57.5 MCr
Crew:    4                High/Mid Pass:    0          Low:  0
Cargo: 135 Std            Controls: Civ Standard       TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 56 Mw)
(no armament)                         1.25 Power Plant (1x75 Mw, 1x50 Mw)*
                                      20(40)** Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 03)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
(no small craft)                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P3 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      00 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 01 Engineer, 01 Electronics, 02 Maneuver

Notes:
*  Power plants require refueling every three months (0.325 Std fuel total
per refueling).
** 20 Std disassembleable fuel tanks carried in cargo bay.  Subtract 15 Std
from cargo capacity when assembled.

- --
Description:

The Deneb Corporation Model 3-b Far Trader is the latest in a line of
popular civilian variants of the Model-47 military transport.  Improvements
over the base Model 3-a Free Trader include replacement of the standard J-1
jump drive with a larger J-2 drive, and the addition of auxilliary fuel
tanks in the ship's cargo bay.  The extra tanks may be disassembled and
stored to increase cargo capacity when long range jumps are not required.

Although the "DC-3" Series has generally been hailed throughout known space
as being an affordable, reliable and rugged general purpose cargo vessel,
the extremely spartan accomodations, and lack of defensive armaments have
made them unpopular with some crews.  (The stock version of the Far Trader
provides only a single small cabin for the vessel's captain, and three small
bunks for the remainder of the crew!)  As such, cargo space is often
converted to ad-hoc living quarters by many crews, and upgunned versions are
quite common, particularly along backwater routes within civilized space and
on the frontier.

- --
Appendix A.  Financial Figures for a "Maximum Profit Scenario"*:

O.      Downpayment:    Cr11,490,450

I.      Monthly Expenses:
        A.      bank payment    Cr239,384
        B.      salaries        Cr6,000     (Pilot/Navigator)
                                Cr4,000     (Engineer/Electronic)
                                Cr2,000     (Medic)
        C.      life support    Cr16,000
        D.      maintenance     Cr4,788
        E.      fuel            Cr4,003     (unrefined)
                total expenses  Cr276,175

II.     Monthly Revenues:
        A.      freight         Cr269,550
        B.      passengers      Cr16,000    (1x Mid)
                total revenue   Cr285,550

III.    Net Profit:             +Cr9,375

*ASSUMPTIONS:
1. A skeleton crew is legal, and they get paid for their primary job only.
(I added a designated Medic just in case it's legally required to carry any
passengers.)
2.  One middle passenger may be carried using the ship's only small
stateroom.  (Captain bunks with the crew.)
3.  Life support for bunks is Cr2000/occupied bunk/2 week trip.
4.  Disassembleable fuel tanks are stowed.  (Can only do a one parsec jump
this way, but cargo space is maximized.)
5.  Two trips per month.

- --
Appendix B.  Some Common "3-Series" Variants:

Model 3-a "Free Trader" (QSDS)

Tons: 200 Std (Box S)     Volume:   2800 m^3           Cost: 51.0 MCr
Crew:    4                High/Mid Pass:    0          Low:  0
Cargo: 141 Std            Controls: Civ Standard       TL: 12

08 Size                               01 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 56 Mw)
(no armament)                         1.25 Power Plant (1x75 Mw, 1x50 Mw)
                                      20 Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 03)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
(no small craft)                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P3 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      00 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 01 Engineer, 01 Electronics, 02 Maneuver

(Note:  This ship can make a profit hauling freight with no tricks!)

- --
Model 3-g "Armed Trader" (QSDS)

Tons: 200 Std (Box S)    Volume:   2800 m^3           Cost: 62.3 MCr
Crew:    5               High/Mid Pass:    0          Low:  0
Cargo: 127 Std           Controls: Civ Standard       TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 56 Mw)
01x Civ Laser Bat (+0) 1/02-00-00-00  1.75 Power Plant (1x100 Mw, 1x75 Mw)
                                      20 (40)* Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 03)
                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
(no small craft)                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P3 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                      00 Armor, 06 Structure

Crew Detail: 01 Engineer, 01 Electronics, 02 Maneuver, 01 Gunnery

Notes:
* 20 Std disassembleable fuel tanks carried in cargo bay.  Subtract 15 Std
from cargo capacity when assembled.

(Note:  You're going to run at a loss with this one at two trips per month.
A clever captain might be able to find a way to make it pay. ;-)

***********************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:31:46 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD entries part 2

***********************************************

SAMARKAND-Class Far Trader (QSD)

An LTD Design using Quartermaster Standard Design rated components


Tons: 200 Std (S Cyl)   Volume:  2800 m3     Cost: MCr 60.0
Crew:   4               Mid Pass:   5        Low:  3 Emrgncy LB
Cargo: 80 Std           Controls: Std Civ    TL:  12

 8 Size                         2   Jump Drive  (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                1   Maneuver G  (TPlates, 56MW)
 2 Empty Turret Sockets         1.5 Power Plant (100MW + 50MW)
   (24 MW power available)     41.6 Fuel Rating (S 80t/h, R 3t/h)
                                A1 P3 J0 Sensors
                                10 Armor, 10 Structure

Crew Detail: 1 Engineer, 1 Electronics, 2 Maneuver
             (Additional accomodations, workstations exist for 2 Gunners)
             (One Lg Stateroom for Captain, Owner Aboard, or Passenger)

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The SAMARKAND class is LTD's first commercial entry using the new
"Quartermaster Standard Design" -rated components: sufficient stability
and availability of these specifications, along with the substantial
discount they provide, should at last allow for more accessible and
economical blueprints.  LTD must note up front that the design does not
"break even" with Imperial-mandated freight charges (in any case, the
bulk freight market is largely sewn up by the megacorporations).  The
SAMARKAND is, instead, intended for the many small groups of speculative
traders that ply the trade-routes of the Imperium: its reliability,
customizability, and upgradeability should make it a tempting purchase
for such a small travelling group, and the breakeven point lies at just
15% of cargo devoted to reasonable speculative returns (10% if a single
high passenger is carried, even less if crew serve as working share-
holders).

    The ship is designed with an eye towards freight and speculative
cargo, pure and simple, though five small staterooms are available for
middle passages (in which case a medic must be carried) in case of
contractors wishing to accompany their cargo.  The lavish accomodations
required for High Passage licensure are not provided, though a retrofit
(and the addition of a steward to the crew) could allow two or three.  A
single high passenger could conceivably be carried in the single large
stateroom, originally intended for the captain or owner aboard, but
shipboard security could be compromised as those quarters are in the crew
section.  Still, the possibility exists.

    Indeed, flexibility is the hallmark of the SAMARKAND design.  To hold
costs down and allow ultimate end-user flexibility, the design includes
two empty turret sockets and 24MW excess power to allow any number of
weapon combinations.  The SAMARKAND's minimal sensor suite can easily be
upgraded after purchase with the Improved model, which at TL12 has an
identical displacement.  The hull (built with reliable TL10 crystaliron to
allow repairs at the widest variety of ports) is braced to withstand 3G
accelerations: though the installed thrusterplates cannot provide such
power (1G is possible, more with an empty hold), the additional internal
bracing helps withstand any rough treatment by freight dockworkers or in
crowded zero-g highports.  Onboard fuel scoops and purification facilities
have been designed to take as little space as possible from valuable cargo
holds, while allowing the ability to refuel at gas giants and thus bypass
unprofitable mainworlds sunk deep in a star's gravitational well.

    Moreover, LTD understands that the traditional Far Trader, while
enjoying great mobility, can suffer in competition with shorter-legged
Free Traders on Known Space's many 1-jump Mains.  Accordingly, our new
SAMARKAND is designed with dual jump-fuel tanks.  Permanent tankage
holds fuel for the power plant and a single jump-1.  But the fuel for
the additional parsec range is stored immediately aft of the cargo bay,
and contains a high-quality hatch to allow use of its 20-displacement-ton
space on jump-1 routes!  (Engineers *must* take care to ensure that all
hydrogen vapors are removed before freight loading, but the Imperial Bureau
of Safety ensures us that the design is technically sound.  LTD disclaims
all responsibility for accident in cases of improper sealing of the tank
entrance or of improper venting of liquid hydrogen fuel or vapors).

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

ECONOMIC ANALYSIS: LTD Samarkand-Class Far Trader

Initial Down Payment: MCr 12

Monthly Bank Payment: MCr 0.25 for 480 months;  Cr 250,000 per month
Annual Maintenance Cost: Cr 60,000 per annum;     Cr 5,000 per month
Salaries (Pilot, Navigator, Engineer, Med/Stw):  Cr 17,000 per month
Life Support Costs (four crew cabins):           Cr 16,000 per month
Monthly Fuel Costs (bought, unrefined, J2):       Cr 8,026 per month
  TOTAL MONTHLY COSTS:                          Cr 296,026 total per month

Five middle passages (less life support):        Cr 60,000 per month
Single high passage (less life support):         Cr 16,000 per month
Freight fees for 72 Std cargo space:            Cr 144,000 per month
8 tons cargo @100% sales (Cr5,000/std):          Cr 80,000 per month
  TOTAL MONTHLY REVENUES (85% + speculation):   Cr 300,000 total per month

(Convertible fuel tank can provide additional Cr 40,000 freight revenue).
(Pure reliance on freight charges, even at 100% continuous capacity WITH
 convertible fuel tank, will cause a monthly shortfall of some Cr 89,000).


***********************************************



|\___/|
| | | |
| |C| |  Custom
| |B| |  Built
\ |W| /  Wreckage, Inc.
 \| |/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Alpher/Solomani Rim:Crashland City              045-0001
MEMORANDUM FOR:  IMMEDIATE NEWS RELEASE

SUBJECT:  CBW-A-0001-1 "Roland" Project Completion

  Custom Built Wreckage, Inc is proud to announce the completion of
the design phase of its first civilian production starship, the
CBW-A-0001-1 "Roland" class Far Trader.
  The Roland is an inexpensive starship designed for the private
entrepeneur or small trading company.  It is capable of carrying
twenty passengers and 66 Standard tons of cargo over short jump
distances both on and off normal trade routes.  Assuming a maximum
cargo and passenger manifest, the ship will be capable of operating at
a consistent profit without the need for speculation.
  Actual construction of the first Roland will begin within the month,
beginning with the construction and environmental stress-testing of
the hull and interior structure.

Technical Data:
Roland class Far Trader (SSDS)

Tons:  200 Std (Disk SL)        Loaded Mass:  2057 tonnes       Cost:  63.41 MCr
Crew:  7                                High/Mid Pass:  0/20            Low
Pass:  4
Cargo:  66 Std                  Controls:  Civ (High Auto)      TL:  12

8 Size                                          2 Jump Drive (280 Std/pc Fuel)
                                                        1 Maneuver Drive
(Thrusters, 50 MW/2000 Th)
2x 95Mj Laser Tt (+0) 1/1-0-0-0 1 Power Plant (100MW Fusion)
                                                        41.1 Fuel (Scoop 80)
                                                        A2 P4 J0 Sensors
                                                        10 Armor        9
Structure

Crew Detail:  1 Commander/Owner, 1 Pilot, 1 Astrogator, 1 Engineer, 2
Gunners,
                    1 Sensor Op
                    The Piloting and Astrogation functions can be performed by a
single
                    crewman if necessary.
                    Steward functions can be performed by the Gunners.

Small Craft:  2.0 Std allocated for Small Vehicle Storage.  One Grav
Truck (1.0 Std) or two small air rafts (0.6 Std) can be stored.

Accommodations:  1 Large Stateroom (Owner's Cabin), 26 Small
Staterooms (6 Crew + 20 Passengers), 4 Low Berths


Blueprint Tour:
  The Roland class Far Trader is built on a 200 Standard ton,
streamlined disk hull.  There are two decks.  The lower deck is used
for cargo and quarters, and the upper deck is reserved for fuel
tankage.
  The forward section of the ship is dominated by the 66 ton cargo
bay, which opens to the front and is flanked on either side by the two
main airlocks.  The cargo bay ceiling is 5 meters in height, tall
enough to stack two standard cargo modules (2x2x3.5 meters) on top of
each other.
  On the port side of the ship is the command center and the crew
quarters.  A narrow corridor runs around the cargo bay, connecting all
sections of the ship.  The aft quarter of the ship is occupied by the
engineering and drive section, the low berths, the ship's locker,
and the small vehicle hangar.  Finally, the passenger staterooms are
located in the entire starboard side.  They are each 2 meters wide, 3
meters deep and 2.5 meters tall, stacked in columns of two to make
room for a modest common area (which includes sanfac units and ration
dispensers).  The upper row of staterooms is accessed by ladders on
each end of the corridor and has a 1 meter wide walkway.  The ship is
somewhat cramped, but the conditions are adequate for economy travel.
  The new Roland Far Trader will be built using high-quality, reliable
SSDS parts.


Financial Data:
Operating Expenses:
        Down Payment:                   12.682 MCr
        Annual Maintenance:              63410 Cr

        Monthly Payment:                264208 Cr
        Crew Salaries:
                Pilot                     6000
                Astrogator                5000
                Engineer                          4000
                Sensors                   2000
                Gunners                   2000

        Life Support:
                Staterooms              108000
                Low Berths                 800

        Monthly Maintenance:      5248

        Monthly Refueling Costs:         20000

        Berthing Fees:                     200

        Total Monthly Expenses: 417492 Cr

Operational Incomes:                            90% Manifest:
        Cargo:
                Cargo (66 tons) 132000          118000

        Maximum Passengers:
                Mid Passengers          320000          288000
                Low Passengers            8000            6000 (75%)

        Total Monthly Income:   460000 Cr               412000 Cr


        Net Potential Profit:    42508 Cr            - 5492 Cr


***********************************************


 ---------------------------------------
 Ketaru Aerospace "Star"-class Far Liner      (QSDS 1.5)
 ---------------------------------------

Tons: 300 Std (Disk S)   Volume:     4200 m^3        Price: MCr 81.80
Crew:   8                Hi/Mid Psg: 12/12           Low:   none
Cargo: 92 (114.5)        Controls:   Std. Civilian   TL:    12

8 Size                      2 Jump Drive (30 Std/Pc fuel)
                            1 Maneuver   (Thrusters, 84 MW)
                            180 MW Power (100+(4x20) MW Fusion)
                                   (182 with 2MW Fusion+ auxiliary)
                            61.91 Fuel (Scoop 120, Refine 5)
                                   (30 is collapsible dismountable tanks)

                            A1 P3 J0
                            10 Armor, 9 Structure

Crew Detail:  1 Engineer, 1 Electronics, 2 Maneuver, 1 Command,
              2 Stewards, 1 Medical

Notes: 30 tons of fuel storage is a collapsible dismountable tank.  When
collapsed, there is only enough fuel for jump-1 but cargo increases to the
number in parentheses.  A 2 MW Fusion+ plant is provided as ancilliary
power for the refinery; if deleted, refinery only runs when not thrusting.
Middle passengers are carried in small staterooms; total passenger load is
24 (12 high, 12 middle).

FINANCIAL INFORMATION:  (Courtesy of Tukera Financial, LIC)

Down Payment:     MCr 16.36       Monthly Payment:      MCr 0.340833
Monthly Salaries: MCr  0.034      LS (Full Occ., 4-wk): MCr 0.128
Annual Maint.:    MCr  0.0818

Annual Costs (assumes 25 trips and two weeks maintenance):
Loan Payments:  kCr 4090   (note this is 1/240 * 12 = 1/20 cost)
Crew Salaries:  kCr  408   (12 months)
Crew LS only:   kCr  400
Annual maint.:  kCr   81.8
Unref. fuel:    kCr  150   (kCr 75 in jump-1 mode)
Berthing:       kCr    2.5
                ----------
                kCr 5132.3 (kCr 5057.3 in jump-1 mode)

Annual Revenue (assumes 25 trips at full capacity)
Passengers:     kCr 4200   (life support costs deducted; kCr 5400-1200)
Freight:        kCr 2000   (assumes 80 tons after 12 tons is deleted for
                            high passenger cargo; kCr 2500 in jump-1 mode
                            assumes 100 tons.  Used round increments of
                            5 and 10 because most cargo lots are in these
                            sizes.)
                ----------
                kCr 6200   (kCr 6700 in jump-1 mode)

Annual Profit:        kCr 1067.7 (kCr 1642.7 in jump-1 mode)
Profit as % of down:  6.53% (10.04% in jump-1 mode) annually
                      (1067.7/16360 and 1642.6/16360 respectively; shows
                       return on initial investment)

Breakeven:  Chances are good this will always have a full load of cargo,
  looking at the commercial rules.  So if passenger revenue drops to
  kCr 3133, then we're at breakeven.  This would be a full load of cargo,
  all middle passengers, and only six high passengers.  Crew with good
  skills in administration and carousing are indicated.  The margins are
  better if the ship is in "economy mode" and only doing jump-1.  Also
  it appears with well chosen routes, this ship will almost always
  operate at a high enough capacity to make money.  Number of staterooms
  were selected with an eye to the average number of passengers available
  at a system.


THE STAR-CLASS FAR LINER: A Starliner For A Fledgling Line

Ketaru Aerospace is proud to unveil their newest concept design for the
THUDDD-1 competition, the STAR-class far liner.  The STAR-class starliner
is an ideal small vessel for a fledgling line on a tight budget that
doesn't want to sacrifice their return on investment for price savings.
With jump drives rated for operation at two parsecs, you are no longer
tied to the mains, but can "get the jump" on your competition.

For a mere sixteen million credits down payment, the STAR can earn over
six and a half percent return on your initial investment in the first
year, after all operating costs have been covered!  But, well operated,
a STAR can bring in even greater returns for you and your company.

ECONOMY MODE: Your Unique Advantage!

The STAR-class ships have been equipped with collapsible dismountable
fuel tankage that allows you to increase your cargo space when operating
at jump-1.  Half of the jump fuel tankage can be collapsed to fill but
a quarter of the space when not in use, adding to your cargo payload
over twenty standard displacement tons of volume!  This can increase
your profitability on these runs by over 50 percent.  In economy mode,
this ship can operate near the ten percent or more return on initial
investment expected of a large Tukera bulk freighter operating in
standard jump-2 mode, excellent profitability for a ship in this size
class.

CARGO AND FREIGHT: Ample Space For Shipping

Plenty of room has been provided for your cargo and freight shipping
needs.  Whether hauling other people's goods or operating your own
trading business, over eleven hundred cubic meters are available for
shipping in addition to space set aside for the luggage of your high
passengers, even when the ship is not operating in "economy mode".
The STAR-class far liner can carry twenty IMoT-standardized six-meter
containers, or sixteen IMoT-standardized "seven seventy-seven" five
displacement-ton containers in standard mode.

SATISFIED MIDDLE PASSENGERS: No More "Bumping"

The key to profitability is a full load of passengers.  To make sure
that you can attract middle passage tickets, half of the twenty-four
passenger staterooms on the STAR-class far liner are designed
especially for middle passengers only.  This relieves your passengers
of the worry that they'll be bumped from their flight at the last
minute by some procrastinating high passenger.  But we have also
provided twelve special suites for the high passengers, furnished and
designed to satisfy the most discerning traveler.

Our financial analysts have determined the ideal number of staterooms
of each type to carry in order to allow the ship to carry a complete
complement of passengers on most flights.  However, there is always a
requirement for a friendly face and good skills in marketing to keep
your staterooms fully occupied, especially in recently settled areas
with sparse populations and traffic.

FUEL PURIFICATION: A Necessity To Control Costs

The STAR-class far liner is equipped with a seventy kiloliter per
hour fuel purification system, enabling you to operate on unrefined
fuel safely.  While most civilized planets won't just let you land
in the ocean for refueling, you can still purchase unrefined fuel
at a reduced rate and cut your hydrogen bill by eighty percent.

Usually, you will refuel immediately after unloading at the starport,
which gives you plenty of time to complete the refining process prior
to departure.  But if you don't have twelve hours to refine your fuel
on the ground, we have a solution.  We have subcontracted with Cleon
Industries to acquire a state-of-the-art two megawatt "Fusion+" cold
fusion generator to operate as an ancillary plant for all STAR-class
far liners, to power the fuel refinery when the maneuvering thrusters
are in operation.  Enough fuel is provided for three hundred hours of
operation a year.  We recommend performing a full maintenance and
replacement of the solid-state core of the "Fusion+" unit every six
years to insure reliable operation.

A FULL CREW COMPLEMENT: Safety and Security For Your Customers

Some small commercial vessels have been known to operate with reduced
crews.  As part of the Tukera philosophy, Ketaru Aerospace feels that
you only are putting your ship and customers in danger when operating
below crew levels recommended by the Ministry of Transportation.  The
STAR-class liner maintains full crewing levels to make sure that your
crew is always there for the customer.

In addition, all STAR-class starliners are equipped with vac suits,
emergency survival bubbles, and all other safety equipment in accord
with Imperial safety regulations.

CUSTOMIZATION: Making The STARs Right For You

Often, it becomes necessary to tailor your ship to your market and your
needs.  The STAR-class liner as provided may not fulfill the special
requirements of your route.  While we intend to mass-produce the basic
model, after-market additions such as advanced sensor arrays are most
certainly available.  If you are trying to operate in an unsecured area
(such as the run to the LSP industrial facility at Deneb), a ten ton
section of the cargo area is specially equipped as an "option area";
this area is ideally placed for hull access.  Some configurations that
have been suggested so far have included a six ton "weapons option"
which includes a three-ton civilian laser, 20 MW power system, and
gunner's station and stateroom, for MCr 3.44 (just kCr 14.3 a month!).
Ketaru has also been considering suggestions for a three-ton hangar
for a grav flyer such as the Rolen "Politesse".  Due to the fact that
no such hangar is currently available as an IDP design, this is still
being studied as an after-market add-on by Ketaru.  If you just can't
decide, you can install both, or two turrets, or whatever you fancy!

None of these options are included with the basic model.

MARKETING FOR THE STARS: Your Profitable Future

Ketaru envisions the STAR-class liners to be named after distant ports
visited by Imperial vessels: "Star of Terra", or "Denebian Star", for
example.  This will encourage your customers to think of the uncharted
possibilities of the new galactic marketplace, and the exotic places
to which they and their product may travel on your vessels.

The time to return to the stars is today!  Contact Ketaru Aerospace in
Mifa Lanco, or our orbital facility at Ton Vorn, Capital/Core, for more
information on our product line.

Ketaru Aerospace is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tukera Lines, LIC,
(Imperial Stock Exchange symbol: "T").



***********************************************


PICH-1/2 "Far Trader" (QSDS v1.5)

Tons: 200 Std (Steamlined Box)    Volume: 2800 m^3           Cost: 63.45 MCr
Crew: 4* (standard)        High/Mid Pass: 0/10*           Low: 0
Cargo:  93/108* Std             Controls: Civilian (No Bridge)      TL: 12

8 Size                                 2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                          1 Maneuver (Thruster, 56 Mw)
                                          1 Power Plant (1x 200 Mw)
                                          40/20* Fuel (Scoop 80, Refine 3)
                                         A1 P3 J0 Sensors
                                      0 Armor, 6 Structure

Crew Detail (full): 1 Command, 1 Sensors, 1 Engineer, 2 Steward, 1 Pilot,
             1 Astrogator, 1 Medic
Crew Detail (standard): 1 Pilot/Engineer, 1 Astrogator/Sensors, 1 Medic, 1
Steward

Notes:

Crew assumes a standard work force, it may vary from 2 to 11 depending on
circumstances; 4 crew gives a middle passenger load of 10. The ship has a
total of 14 small staterooms.

The ship uses a Dismountable, collapsing fuel tank which accounts for the
varying
cargo and fuel amounts. Assembled, the PICH-1/2 is capable of Jump 2 with 40
tons of fuel and 93 tons cargo; when it is stored, the ship will do Jump 1
with 20
tons fuel and 108 tons cargo. The scoop can refuel the ship in 30 minutes for a
Jump 2 (15 min for a Jump 1), and the refinery can process it in 13h 20m (6h
40m).
The tank takes 5 tons of space when unassembled. I included 1 ton of fuel for
the power plant which will run it for around 1/2 a year.

The ship has 5 workstations of TL9 included in case it must run with a full
crew.

The J-Drive is TL11, the controls are TL 12 civ, sensors TL 12 basic, and comms
are TL 12 basic.

Pricing and costs:

TOTAL COST 84.60 MCr, 63.45 MCr with the QSDS discount. This gives a DOWN-
PAYMENT of 12.69 MCr and MONTHLY PAYMENTS of 264,391 Cr. MAINTENANCE
costs 5288 Cr a month Fuel costs 8200 Cr a month for 40 tons, 4200 Cr a month
for 20 tons (both unrefined, if scooping it's free, of course). The cost of
SALARIES
breaks down via crewing: 11 crew= 67,000 Cr, 4 crew= 33,000 Cr, and 2 crew =
11,000 Cr, all per month. If the crew are PCs/owner-operators, the salaries
are 0.
LIFE SUPPORT runs 56,000 Cr per month.

Financial: (assumes 100% cargo and occupancy)

# crew       tank state     cargo     passengers     jump      profit
     8          assembled      93            6                  2
- -118,880 Cr
     8            disass.        103           6                   1
- -84,880 Cr
     4              ass.            93           10                 2
- -20,880 Cr
     4            disass.        103           10                  1
13,122 Cr
     2               ass.           93           12                 2
33,122 Cr
    2             disass.        103           12                 1
67,122 Cr
(the following are assuming unpaid PCs or NPC owner-operators)
     4               ass.          93            10                 2
12,122 Cr
     4            disass.        103           10                1
46,122 Cr
     2               ass.          93             12                2
44, 122 Cr
     2            disass.        103            12                1
78, 122 Cr

Obviously, this ship is designed with a crew of 4 owner operators or PCs in mind in
order to be profitable. With the tank disassembled and full loads, a group of 4
could bring in a moderate amount of profit on the Jump 1 route, and would break
a little more than even with Jump 2 capability.



***********************************************


Far Trader - Rhodes Yards Vicuna (SSDS)

Tons: 200 (Disc AF)      Volume: 2800 m^3             Cost: 56.48 MCr
Crew: 3                  High/Mid Pass: 07
Cargo: 100 Std           Controls: Dynalink w/High Integration TL: 12

8 Size                            02 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (Thruster, 50 Mw)
                                      0.75 Power Plant (1 x 75 Mw)
                                      41.6 Fuel (Scoop 41.6 Std)
                                      A0 P0 J0 Sensors
                                      0 Armor, 6 Structure

Crew Detail: 1 Pilot, 1 Engineer, 1 Steward


Costs
Life Support:  KCr2 per occupied large stateroom every two weeks KCr500
Berthing:  KCr0.1 every 2 weeks, plus 2 weeks in maintenance: KCr2.7
Crew Salary:  KCr6 for pilot, KCr4 for Gofer, KCr3 for Steward(KCr156)
Maintenance:  KCr56.48
Payments:  Down KCr11296, KCr235.34 each month
Fuel: KCr0.5 per ton, Jump refuel refilled every two weeks KCr500, Fusion
refilled once
per year KCr0.4
Total:  KCr1450.92

Income (based on 50 weeks per year, allowing 2 for routine maintenance):
High passengers:  7 every 2 weeks KCr1750
Cargo: 100 tons at KCr4 per ton every two weeks KCr10000
Total: KCr11750

Net Each Year: KCr10299.08

Even if price per ton is KCr1, the profit is still 2999.08

So, you have the money for  a down payment and are wondering what type of
ship to buy? Consider the Vicuna. It is economical, rugged and easy to
operate with a small crew. Most importantly, you can make a profit on even
the most slow routes.
The Inca of Terra used the animal known as the Vicuna as a pack animal
because of its  load-carrying ability and easy to handle nature; we are
proud to carry on such a tradition with our Year 3 Vicuna.

(licenses, transfer fees and taxes extra)



***********************************************


Burov class Far Trader (Type FL, passenger liner)
QSDS 1.5

Tons: 200 Std (Streamlined) Volume: 2,8000 m^3           Cost: 58.6MCr
Crew: 4                    High/Mid Pass: 0/40           Low: 0
Cargo: 43 Std              Controls: Std                TL: 12

8 Size                                2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      1 Maneuver (Thruster, 56 Mw)
                                      1.25 Power Plant (125Mw)
                                      41.3Std Fuel
                                      A1 P3 J9 Sensors
                                      10 Armor, 9 Structure

Crew Detail:1xPilot/Astrogator, 1xEngineer, 1xSteward 1xMedic
Note: the ship has 44 small staterooms


Downpayment:  11.7MCr
Monthly Payment:         244,167
Monthly Crew Salaries
Pilot/Navigator:          10,000
Engineer:                  4,000
Steward:                   2,000
Medic:                     2,000
Monthly Life Support:    176,000
Annual Maintenance/Month:  4,250
Monthly Fuel Cost:        40,054
Monthly Costs:           482,483

Passenger Revenue/Month: 640,000
Cargo Revenue/Month:      86,000
Monthly Break-even Point: 30 passengers and 3dtons of cargo




The Burov class free trader is the oldest and one of the most successful
designs to come out of the KenFee Interstellar shipyards on Yanbeck.  The
Burov was designed to be an inexpensive no-frills way to transport beings and
goods between star systems.  The Burov's jump drive gives it a range of 2
parsecs and its thrusters are cable of accelerating 2,000 tons at 1G.  The
greatest strength of the Burov is the ease in which KenFee is able to produce
ships of different passenger and cargo capacities to meet customers
requirements.  One of the more well know, if not infamous, variations is the
40 passenger type used by the DC Discount Starline (Detailed above).  The
Brightly colored ships of DC Discount are a common sight thought out the
central Draconis Cluster.  The cramp and sparten conditions are quite often
made worst by DC allowing multiple beings to occupy rooms clearly designed
for only one.  Despite these conditions, DC Discount's prices ensure that
staterooms are rarely unoccupied.  On the other end of the scale, KenFee has
produce many Burovs designed primarily a cargo haulers.  The most common
cargo hauler variant has 112dtons of cargo and 6 small staterooms.  Recently
orders for Burovs have fallen dramatically in part due to the design's age
but mostly due to many recent and well publicized disasters involving Burovs.
 KenFee contends that several of the disasters involving older ships were the
result of improper maintenance.  The two most recent disasters both involved
DC Discount ships, with DC Discount claiming sabotage in both cases.

Here are the stats for the couple of Burov class variants.  The first is the
cargo hauler and the secend is a typically example of

Burov class Far Trader (Type FC, cargo hauler)
QSDS 1.5


Tons: 200 Std (Streamlined) Volume: 2,8000 m^3           Cost: 57.6MCr
Crew: 2                     High/Mid Pass: 0/0           Low: 0
Cargo: 112 Std              Controls: Std                TL: 12

8 Size                                2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      1 Maneuver (Thruster, 56 Mw)
                                      1.25 Power Plant (125Mw)
                                      41.3Std Fuel
                                      A1 P3 J9 Sensors
                                      10 Armor, 9 Structure

Crew Detail:1xPilot/Astrogator, 1xEngineer
Note: the ship has 6 small staterooms and also has an additional 7dtons of
space for crew common areas


Burov class Far Trader (Type FT, trader)
QSDS 1.5

Tons: 200 Std (Streamlined) Volume: 2,8000 m^3           Cost: 63.1MCr
Crew: 8                     High/Mid Pass: 0/8           Low: 0
Cargo: 86 Std               Controls: Std                TL: 12

8 Size                                2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      1 Maneuver (Thruster, 56 Mw)
1xLaser turret (+0) 1/2-0-0-0         1.75 Power Plant (175Mw)
                                      41.3Std Fuel (S 80, R 3)
                                      A1 P3 J9 Sensors
                                      10 Armor, 9 Structure

Crew Detail:1xPilot, 1xCaptain, 1xAstrogator, 1xMedic
1xSensor Operator, 1xEngineer, 1xGunner, 1xSteward
Note: the ship has 16 small staterooms and has an additional 7dtons of space
for crew and passenger common areas.  Also, this includes a single laser
turret along with an additional power plant to power it.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #958
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 17 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 959



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Robots as Ship Crewmembers
Re: Back to the old Core Subsector
Re: 28 CT starships for T4 (long)
Re: Gridlore Technologies withdraws from ISBA
[TML] Rhodes Yards
command
Mutating Core Sector
QSDS spreadsheet, USP question
Re: Life and the List
HEPlaR fuel use in QSDS 1.5
[TML] ISBA
Re: RE The color of J-space (and other curiosities)
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: B5 vs BG vs Trav
Re: T4 Gripes (more)
Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
Re: Back to the Old Core
Re: THUDDD entries part 2
What do Zhodanis Look Like?
Re: Back to the Old Core

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:39:27 -0600
From: bill fegley <961fegley@alpha.nlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Robots as Ship Crewmembers

help

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:57:45 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Back to the old Core Subsector

Tim Reynolds wrote:
> 
> Allen the GM writes
> 
> Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what
> it was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
>         This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign,
>         because I
> am NOT going to just pretend that nothing happened. When my players
> get back from their little jaunt to the Gushemege sector, they will
> find everything...different.
>         So guys, help me figure out (in story terms) what happened...
>         :)

Have a Voyager Star Trek thing happen with powerful energy beings that have decided foe 
the sake of our own species to rewrite spacetime

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:55:56 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: 28 CT starships for T4 (long)

Here are actual _designed_ versions of the AHL, Fuel Shuttle and Multi-Mission Gunboat
The only thing missing is the damage for the Partacc (which I seem to have accidentally 
misplaced. But it is ROF 100 and has an input of 20MJ

Hope you (whoever) enjoy

Azhanti High Lightning Frontier Cruiser TL E	
	
Tons: 	60000 (Slab SL)	Vol: 	840000 m3 (mass 1270910.84)   	Cost: 40006.36 MCr
Crew: 	493                          	Pass: 	320 Low              
Cargo	323.2 Std              	Controls: Hololinkfib w/High Int (Bridge) 	TL: 14
10 Size				5 Jump (6000 Std/pc)
FCR 5				2 Maneuver (Thruster, 60000 Mw)
10 Laser 10 10-10-10-10	2.9 Power Plant (1 x 87000 Mw, 1 year)
5 ND factor 20			30621.4 Fuel + 350 (Scoop 6124.3 Std, Refine 1500 Std/hour)
10 Scaster factor 20		A16(4) P7(2) J16(4) Sensors (EMM), Densitometer, Neutrino
20 Msl Brb (5)			Commo: 1000 AU Maser (8), 1000 AU Radio (4)
Meson Screen 11		160 Armor, 53 Structure
Partacc 

Extras: 
4	400 ton Docking Rings		
6  	20 ton Minimal Internal Hangars		 
60  	10 ton Minimal Internal Hangars
2 	10 ton Launch Tubes
1	Auxiliary Bridge
4 	Electronics Shops		
4 	Machine Shops 				
4 	Labs 					
16 	Bed Sick Bays 
2 	Large Cargo Hatches
3	Missile Locker (500 Missiles each)

Crew Detail: 
57 Command, 1 Electronics, 91 Gunners, 144 Engineer, 8 Steward, 19 Medical, 21 
Maintenance, 
2 Maneuver, 150 Troops

Notes: 
4 MFDs for each battery of ten lasers, battery of five missiles, battery of ten nuke dampers 
and main partacc and one for every 10 sandcasters
100 x Scaster Turret, 100 x Msl Barb, Ndamper (60k), 100 x 170 MJ Lt Laser, 1 x 20K 
MJ partacc
partacc 20 MJ			9936.13	5555.56	910.43		56.54		8371.2


Azhanti High Lightning Class Gunboat, TL E 
Tons		20 Cylinder AF	Vol:   	280 m3 (mass 145.95 tons)	Cost	MCr31.89
Crew		1			Pass:	none (no crew quarters)
Cargo   	2.7 Std + varies     	Controls: HoloLink TL E, High Integration
8 Size		  			4 Maneuver (Thruster, MW)
        					4 Power (1 x MW, 3 months)
					1 Fuel		 
					A8 P4 (Folding) J8 Sensors (EMM)
					Commo:	1000 AU Maser
					20 Armour, 5 Structure
Extras:
Docking Ring for 10 ton module
Type		Cost	Mass	Cargo	Extras
Cargo 		0.05	152.6	9.7	
Passenger 	0.05	78.8	4.1	40 Roomy Passenger Seats
Gunboat	20.78	217.4	0.3	+1 crew, Power 10 (Fuel 1.25 (45 days)), L-Btty 02 3-3-3-3, 
FCR 5
All have a Small Cargo Hatch and are Armour 20, Structure 3


Azhanti High Lightning Class Fuel Shuttle	

Tons: 	400 (Cyl AF)		Vol: 	5600 m3 (mass 1397.5)            	Cost: 162.46 MCr
Crew: 	2                          	Pass: 	11 Roomy Seats              
Cargo	3.1 Std              	Controls: Hololink w/High Integration 	TL: 14
8 Size				2 Maneuver (Thruster, 200 Mw)
                                      	1.5 Power Plant (1 x 300 Mw, 1 year)
                                      	2.1 Fuel + 350 (Scoop 700 Std)
                                      	A8 P6 FA J8 Sensors (EMM)
				Commo: 2 1000 AU Maser, 1 1000 AU Radio
                                      	10 Armor, 14 Structure
Extras: 2 Large Cargo Hatches
Crew: 1 Pilot, 1 Engineer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:03:25 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Gridlore Technologies withdraws from ISBA

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

Rhodes Yards expresses its regrets at the withdrawal of so esteemed a member of the ISBA

> **Role playing off**
> 
> As much as I liked the idea of the ISBA, my medical condition has worsened,
> and I'm now on some strong pain killers. 

My personal sympathies are given
Glenn "Mused" Crawford

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:13:55 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: [TML] Rhodes Yards

Currently available from Rhodes Yards are the following ships:
The two Ueknou class light escorts are being produced by Rhodes for Imperial Friendly 
Vargr just coreward from Vland sector

Exploration Scout 3C-212-X "Darning Needle" 
Tons: 300 Needle Airframe	Volume: 4200 m3			Cost: MCr148.56
Crew: 9			Passengers: 8 High/Middle (large staterooms)
Cargo: 49.6 Std          		Controls: Dynalink w/Med Integration   	TL: 12 
Size: 8				Jump 2
Fire Control: 0			Maneuver 1 Thrusters
Hvy Laser Btty 3-2-0-0	Power 2 (250 MW Fusion)
Scaster: factor 2		Fuel: 877.5 Scoop 877.5, Refine 6.5 hours
				A10 P4 J0 Exploration/Survey Package
				Armour Value: 10  Structure: 8
Crew Detail:  1 Command, 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 2 Gunners, 1 Electronics, 3 Engineers
Extras:  2 Large Cargo Hatches, 1 Machine Shop, 1 Electronics Shop, 2 Person Sickbay,4 
Laboratories


Rhodes Yards Vicuna Far Trader 2C-211-M
(presently classified)


Ueknou Light Escort 4C-244-E
Tons: 400 (Wedge SL)      	Volume: 5600 m^3             Cost: 367.31 MCr
Crew: 10                          	Pass:  5 low              
Cargo: 77 Std              			Controls: Dynalink w/Med Integration TL: 12
8 Size 				                        Jump 2
FCR 4                           	Maneuver 4 Thruster 
Msl Brb 1  (4)			              Power 3.75 (750 Mw Fusion), 6 months fuel     	
Msl Brb 2   (4)			             Fuel 84, Scoop 84 Std     	
L-Btty 2 5-4-3-2             A6 (2) P3 (2) J4 Minimal Package 
				Commo: 30000km Radio, 2 1000 AU Maser
                                      	40 Armor, 18 Structure
Crew Detail:  1 Command, 1 Electronics, 3 Gunners, 2 Engineer, 2 Maneuver, 1 Small 
Craft
Extras: 3 Large Cargo Hatches, 1 10 ton Minimal Hangar

Ueknou Light Escort 4C-234-E
Tons: 400 (Wedge SL)      	Volume: 5600 m^3 (4703.7 tons)            Cost: 301.42 MCr
Crew: 10                          	Pass:  5 low              
Cargo: 28 Std              	Controls: Dynalink w/Med Integration TL: 11
8 Size 																														Jump 2
FCR 3                           	Maneuver 3 HEPlaR Thruster (12 hours)
Msl Trt 1  (3)																	Power 4 (800 Mw Fusion), 1 year fuel     	
Msl Trt 2   (3)																	Fuel 217.1, Scoop 217.1 Std     	
L-Btty 2 3-2-0-0                      A4 P3 (2) J2  
				Commo: 30000km Radio, 2 1000 AU Maser
                                      	40 Armor, 18 Structure
Crew Detail:  1 Command, 1 Electronics, 3 Gunners, 2 Engineer, 2 Maneuver, 1 Small 
Craft
Extras: 3 Large Cargo Hatches, 1 10 ton Minimal Hangar

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:26:11 -0600
From: bill fegley <961fegley@alpha.nlu.edu>
Subject: command

@sh maildist - mailagent -

unsubscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 23:21:26 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Mutating Core Sector

Hi,
Allen Shock wanted some suggestions about how to explain
why the stars changed between T4 and First Survey.

Here's a few.

1)The players ship misjumps, but instead of a misjump in
space, they misjump to a new dimension.  The new dimension being
the new map.  Everything would be the same in this new dimension
except for some planets being in different spots.  Maybe the 
occasional weird event happens just to remind the players something
weird happened. One problem is that the players will spend alot
of time trying to get back to their old dimension.  That is unless
you tell them the real reason, and that defeats the purpose.

2)You could bring in the Ancients.  If you have another pocket empire
in the area. You could have them somehow find an Ancient device that
is capable of altering space-time.  Their scientists try to use the 
device to wipe out the new found Imperium.  But due to their lack of a
full understanding of the device, they totaly mutate everything.
Destroying several planets and moving others around.  It would
be really neat if they managed to wipe out their own worlds.  
You'd get to bring in the old theme of scientists playing with forces
that they don't understand.  see countless bad sci-fi movies.
It would be interesting if the players knew people ont he planets
that disappered.

You could also try to have the players find those responsable,
but I think it would be safer if the and their machine disapperd
along with the missing planets.  This way it would eliminate
the possiblity of someone playing with the device again.

3)Your players were given a REALLY bad map.    

Well that's all I could come up with on the spur of the moment.

Lewis









Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Why is that dog running in circles?
A:Its a watchdog and its winding itself up.

lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:42:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: QSDS spreadsheet, USP question

In a couple of days, I should have a QSDS spreadsheet available on the Web
(I'm awaiting Wildstar's vetting before going public).  It automates
everything except weapon/defense and misc. equipment, and I'm working on
those for the next version.

Now, a small USP query...what's the meaning of the code (often fractional)
before the power plant?  Like in

  0.65 Power Plant (1000,500,100,25 mW)

what does the "0.65" mean?  Thanks in advance!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:10:15 -0500
From: fenris@solon.com (Derek Dees)
Subject: Re: Life and the List

Rob,

After two weeks of vacation/business travel and a week of not having access
to my personal e-mail, let's complicate it some, if it is not to late: I
like the TML in the header. Although Eudora will sort on the sender, I
don't always read from home. I like having all my lists give headers for
at-a-glance sorting in elm or pine or whatever I'm using.



Derek

fenris@solon.com
http://www.solon.com/~fenris


And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.
                        M. Arnold "Dover Beach"

So come all you lovers of the good life
          on your supermarket run
Set a sail of your own devising
          and be there when the Dutchman comes
                       Jethro Tull "Flying Dutchman"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:40:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: HEPlaR fuel use in QSDS 1.5

> Yes, actually, that's something I've been on about ever since T4 was
> released.  If you want 20 hours of fuel on a HEPlaR equipped ship, you have
> to multiply the fuel values in QSDS 1.5 by 20.

Is this fix "official"?  Certainly sounds like it should be.  I'll use it
in my soon-to-be-released-I-hope QSDS spreasheet.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:07:14 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [TML] ISBA

I welcome the ISBA and the various entries pertaining thereto - it's like
looking at the new weapons system adverts in Jane's Defence Weekly.  These
entries make their way into the news clips my players get before each game
session. My PCs are currently employed in covert opns against at least one
ISBA member (not to worry - that member(s) will discover what, if anything,
has happened) I understand that some TML members don't like 'em but that's
why we have subject lines! I routinely trash EVERYthing that has a B5
subject header (no disrespect to the B5ers out there - I'm just not a fan...
BTW - anybody ever notice how much B5 looks like BS?)  If you don't like
ISBA, do the same!  Meanwhile, keep the posts coming! - Bill




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:05:16 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: RE The color of J-space (and other curiosities)

>>7. Are the different races' and manufacturers' jumpdrives sufficiently
>>different to generate identifiable signatures for those who know what to
>>look for?
>
>No. If you want to know who it is, you have to go out and look at them. We
>considered making them identifiable, but decided this way was more fun.

In Pilots Handbook or whatever they (DGP) called it there was a glowing
jumpgrid on the ships hull just prior entering jumpspace and this grid
looked markedly different on alien races ships.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:01:44 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

>Not a problem. A week later, most planets will have *easily* moved more
>than 100 diameters. BTW, this is why doing a "blind jump" is a bad
>idea. since everything in the universe is moving relative to everything
>else, failing to calculate before engaging the drive can have you come
>out *anywhere* within the jump distance you engaged for (ie if you used
>fuel for J-1, anywhere within a parsec of your starting point).

You keep the vector you jumped in with but with a "typical" planetary orbit
of 52 weeks per year the curvature of the planetary orbit will keep your
assertion valid.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:54:25 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: B5 vs BG vs Trav

> BTW, did you know that every switch on the BG Bridge set did SOMETHING?
> That set was a monster, according to everything I have read. Serveral
> aritcles were published about how "realistic" the set was, including
> inverviews: one of Terry somebody (Col Tigh), and another of the guy who
> played the sensor chief.

Yes, I did know that.  The extras on the bridge were actually playing 
pong and such while the scene was filmed.  I was quite a BG fan when 
it was out.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 02:25:30 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more)

> keep asking which task-system fixes I have tried with t4:
> Method 1: double skill, half att: player rebleeion at division and
> multiplication
> 
> Method 2: 1.5/2/2.5/3/4/5 dice method: Still too easy, and CF became more
> common.

As you already know, William, my system combines these two ideas.  I 
don't consider them two seperate methods.

And, just FYI, here's a table detailing the chance of success using 
the difficulty fix that you labled Method 2 above.  Whether you use 
the double skill-half attribute system to generate your target 
number, I think that you might agree that these percentages for 
success are quite agreeable.

FOR 1.5 DICE TASK THROWS (Easy Tasks):

Chance of SS = 5.56%
Chance of SF = 0.00%

Target Number		Success %
2				5.56
3				16.67
4				33.33
5				50.00
6				66.67
7				83.33
8				94..44
9+				100.00



FOR 2 DICE TASK THROWS (Average Tasks):

Chance of SS = 2.78%
Chance of SF = 2.78%

Target Number 		Success %
2				2.78
3				8.33
4				16.67
5				27.78
6				41.67
7				58.33
8				72.22
9				83.33
10				91.67
11+				97.22



FOR 2.5 DICE TASK THROWS (Difficult Tasks):

Chance of SS = 0.93
Chance of SF = 2.78

Target Number		Success %
3				0.93
4				3.7
5				9.26
6				17.59
7				28.7
8				42.59
9				57.41
10				71.3
11				82.41
12				90.74
13				95.37
14+				97.22



FOR 3 DICE TASK THROWS (Formidable Tasks):

Chance of SS = 0.46%
Chance of SF = 7.41%

Target Number		Success %
3				0.46
4				1.85
5				4.63
6				9.26
7				16.2
8				25.93
9				37.5
10				50.00
11				62.5
12				74.07
13				82.41
14				87.96
15				91.2
16+				92.59



FOR 4 DICE TASKS (Staggering Tasks):

Chance of SS = 0.08%
Chance of SF = 13.19%

Target Number		Success %
4				0.08
5				0.39
6				1.16
7				2.7
8				5.4
9				9.72
10				15.9
11				23.92
12				33.56
13				44.37
14				55.17
15				65.05
16				73.3
17				79.48
18				83.33
19				85.49
20				86.5
21+				86.81



FOR 5 DICE TASKS (Impossible Tasks):

Chance of SS = 0.01%
Chance of SF = 19.62%

Target Number		Success %
5				0.01
6				0.08
7				0.27
8				0.72
9				1.62
10				3.24
11				5.88
12				9.8
13				15.2
14				22.15
15				30.39
16				39.45
17				48.71
18				57.46
19				64.98
20				70.91
21				75.15
22				77.85
23				79.33
24				80.04
25				80.31
26+				80.38


Take a look at the numbers.  You might agree that they look pretty 
good.  

One of the neat things about the T4 system is the SS and SF 
percentages.  As a task gets harder, the chance of doing really well 
at it goes down drastically whereas the chance of screwing up big 
time goes up drastically.  The harder a task is, the harder it will 
be to do an exceptional job at it and the much more likely that the 
character attempting the task will screw up in a big way.

You've got to admit, there's something clean and smooth about a 
system that offers that without a complex system.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 02:45:20 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long

> 	Lets take a look at my player charecter Fred Grandy, who had:
> a UPP of 8A8ED7-5 at the end of the campaign.  Ssome of his better skill
> levels included:
> 		Fast Talk-6
> 		Pilot-5
> 		Perception-4	Streetwise-4
> 		Jack-of-all-Trades-3
> 		3 more skills at 3
> 		11 more skills at 2
> 		15 more skills at 1
> 		and 4 skills at level 0
> (these totals do not include his Psi skills as that is yet another
> problem)
> 
> 	Let us suppose that Fred is trying an Impossible Fast Talk
> attempt, a task involving Int & Fast Talk skill (or Edu & Fast Talk
> if you try to baffle them with bull....) his target number is a 20 or
> less. 


First off, a level 6 in any skill is REALLY high in my book.  I've 
seen a level 7 on a character before, but I've never seen a level 8.  
Level 6, in my game and in most other's, would put your character at 
the epitome of his skill.  He as raised the skill in question to an 
art form, and there aren't that many others who have the same 
profeciency in the skill as he does.

Given this, I expect him to do well at Impossible tasks.  Your 
character has two level 4 skills, a 5, and a 6 with a couple of 3's 
thrown in.  This character would be a god in my campaign.  Since 
you've played him for a long time (intense adventuring, of course), I 
can accept his level of skill.

On top of his incredible skill in Fast Talk, the character also has 
an incredible Edu and Int score.

So let's see.  The character is incredibly skilled (level 6), highly 
educated (EDU 13), and very intelligent (INT 14).

This guy is definitely not an average joe when it comes to Fast 
talking, and he'd better kick ass at this because it doesn't get any 
better than this.

Looking  at how he would do with my system...

You said it was an Impossible task at Fast Talk.  

His target number would be 19 using either his EDU or INT--pretty 
good.

Referring to the chance success charts I put on my reply to William's 
message...

Fred has a 64.98% chance of success.

Hey, I can see that with this character, and there is still room for 
failure (a 19.62% chance of SF) at this Impossible task.

I guess I don't see the problem you are having with the system.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:28:12 -0800
From: John Watts <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: Back to the Old Core

Hmmmmm.... sounds like an alternative universe adventure to me.

I cant imagine too many other options to that one :)

Shade
- -- 
"Jesus is coming.  Look busy!!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:50:57 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD entries part 2

Its seem the last part of my THUDDD entry, The Burov Far Trader, was missing
so it is:

Please feel free to come and take look at the Burov and its deckplans online
at:
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/fartrdr1.htm)
or the two other variants at:
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/fartrdr2.htm)

By Chris Cox (chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
Copyright 1997 Lawrence C. Cox
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights
reserved.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:52:10 -0500
From: James Garriss <jpg@langley.mitre.org>
Subject: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

Are there any physical/appearance differences between Imperial citizens and
Zhodanis?

TIA,

 James Garriss                             "Everything that can be
 System Engineer, MITRE               invented has been invented."
 jpg@langley.mitre.org              Charles H. Duell, Commissioner
 http://www.cs.odu.edu/~garriss       U.S. Office of Patents, 1899

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:00:03 EST
From: galliand@juno.com
Subject: Re: Back to the Old Core

Well, you could always use the old Dallas gambit:  The T4 galaxy in the
main book is only a dream, but it was so vivid, it seemed real.  The
players (somehow linked to share the same exact dream) awaken to find the
themselves back in the real universe.

Sorry, had to do that.

Seriously, the most feasible would be a misjump into a the First Survey
dimension/universe.  You could make one of the T4 rulebook systems a
"Bermuda Triangle" of sorts.  The gravity or other astronomical forces
within the system upset the jump drive balance in such a way that an
extraordinary misjump occurs, and the ship finds itself in the same
system in the new First Survey dimension/universe.  Only this system
won't have the same weird astronomical goings-on that caused the original
misjump, thus they are stuck there until they find another way home.

As for ongoing "weirdness", you could always make just very slight
differences.  You know, the PCs' j-drive orientation is one way for the
original universe, but is another in the First Survey universe.  Cleon's
hair is raven black in the original, but is platinum blond in the new,
other things.  Maybe the original universe knew where Terra was and Vland
was a legend, and it's vice versa in the First Survey universe.

Scott

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #959
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 17 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 960



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

THUDDD Addendum
Steward requirements
Why the Universe Changed (core sector)
QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices
Re: THUDDD entries part 2
RE: Back to the old Core subsector
RE: What Do Zhodani look like?
Re: ISBA? I vote NAY
"Why the universe did not change"
Re: Back to the Old Core
Crew requirements - a question
My damn THUDDD Entry!
[none]
Re: What do Zhodanis look like?
Crew requirements: Astrogators
THUDDD: Maximum Staterooms

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:49:39 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD Addendum

        Just got two late entries under the wire; have included ballot and
the entry in question.  Snip the ballot of the bottom of this post and
paste it onto the end of the one I sent last night.  Otherwise, proceed
normally... oh yes; submissions are no longer being accepted.






***********************************
***********************************


Khushdakaa (Opportunity) class Trader

Tons: 100                       Volume: 1400                    Cost: 38.9 MCr
Crew: 1                         Passengers Middle: 3            Low: 0
Cargo: 42.5/35 (see below)      Controls: Civ Std                       TL: 12

8 Size                                          2  Jump (10 std/pc fuel)
                                                1  Maneuver (Thruster,
25MW) No CG
                                                1  Power Plant (50MW)
                                                10.5/20.5  Fuel (See below,
Scoop 8, Refine 50)
                                                A P J0  Sensors
                                                30  Armor 10  Structure

Crew Details: 1 Pilot

Notes: Normal jump fuel tankage is 10std, sufficient for a single jump-1.
However, the cargo bay is equipped with a collapsible fuel tank system that
when expanded, removes 7.5std from available cargo, but increases jump fuel
to 20std, enough for jump-2. When collapsed, 2.5std of the auxiliary tank
is treated as waste space, and is unavailable for use.
The ship has an empty 3ton turret that may mount any standard weapon. While
there is no surplus power available, it is assumed that any weaponry
mounted could draw from the fuel processing plant allocated power.

Financial Analysis:

Cost, new: 38.9MCr
Down payment: 7,850.65KCr

Expenses (two trips, scooping fuel)
  Monthly payment: 163.555KCr
  Life support: 16KCr
  Maintenance: 3.271KCr
  Total: 182.826KCr

Income (two trips):
  Middle passengers: 48Kcr
  Cargo (35 tons/42.5 tons): 70KCr/85KCr
  Total (light cargo/heavy cargo): 118KCr/133KCr

Approximate Profit/Loss (light cargo/heavy cargo):  -64KCr/-49KCr


Mekhuriim Announces New Trader

With a minimum of fanfare, Mekhuriim placed on the market today their new
Khushdakaa class trader. The Khushdakaa (which is Vilani for Opportunity)
is "a perfect ship for the independent entrepreneur to venture into the
great realm of interstellar commerce" a company spokesman stated.
At first glance, the Khushdakaa is unimpressive. Displacing only 100 tons,
it is one of the smallest starships available. It is capable of a modest
2-parsec jump and 1-G sustained acceleration. The small size of the craft
means that the ship has a rather small cargo capacity, 35 to 42 tons,
depending on the mission profile. If the ship is operated at the full
recommended crew levels, there is no room for passengers. Thus one might
question the validity of Mekhuriim's design.
However, upon second glance, the Khushdakaa class has several unique
features that may attract certain buyers. For instance, the size of the
ship, along with a high degree of computer automation, allows for a crew of
only one - perfect for the individual trader. When the ship's owner
operates the ship by himself he does not have to worry about paying
salaries. Since the Khushdakaa possesses fuel scoops and a refining plant
(a rarity for a ship this small), an enterprising captain can reduce fuel
costs to a minimum. By dispensing with the standard crew, an independent
trader can take on three passengers at "middle-class" level of comfort.
Perhaps the most innovative aspect of the Khushdakaa is it's fuel/cargo
system. The ship, as designed, has fuel for a year's operation of of the
power plant and a single jump-1. However, the drive is capable of jump-2.
This disparity is addressed with the mounting of a permanent collapsible
fuel tank mounted on the cargo deck. This tank, when filled, brings the
ship's fuel levels to the point where Jump-2 is possible. If the ship needs
to make only a jump-1, however, the captain can collapse the auxiliary tank
to a smaller package - giving the captain an extra 7.5 tons of cargo space.
This can be quite useful on jump-1 mains, where the extra tonnage means
extra profit potential.
A detailed financial analysis of the Khushdakaa's performance seems to show
that the ship has no potential for profit. This is most certainly true if
the ship's captain limits himself to hauling normal freight. However, this
vessel can prove to be an excellent starship to engage in speculative
trading. The vessel can also command higher rates by operating in frontier
situations - the ship's hull is armored, and the structure of the craft has
been reinforced to the equivalent of a ship capable of pulling 6-Gs. And
even though the craft is equipped with gravtic compensators, the vessel
also has four g-tanks for high-acceleration periods (such as taking off and
landing). With a weapon mounted on the ship, the Khushdakaa's survivability
factor exceeds that of a standard free or far trader - just what an
enterprising captain needs.
The Khushdakaa is designed as a streamlined teardrop, with drives mounted
on the rounder end, and crew decks up above near the narrow end. The ship
has no contra-grav systems (to save cost), and so it must land in a
vertical orientation. The decks are mounted perpendicular to the ship's
motion, to relieve stress on the grav plates.
Mekhuriim has announced immediate availability for the Khushdakaa class, as
well as a cheaper class known as the Darlegii class (identical class except
drives are rated at only jump-1?the only difference being the purchase
price, 35.5MCr).


***********************************
***********************************



Goshawk Far Trader (SSDS)

Tons: 200(Wedge SL)   Volume:2800m^3         Cost: 57.93MCr
Crew: 2               Passengers H/M:0/13    Passengers L:0
Cargo: 77 tons        Controls:Std           Tech Level:12

8:Size Rating       00 Jump Rating (20 tons per pc)
                    01 Maneuver Rating (Thrusters)
                    01 Power Plant (1x100Mw Fusion Plant)
                    41 Fuel Rating (Scoop 40tons/hour} (Refine 8.3 tons/hour)
                    00 Meson Screen
                    01 Sand Caster (30 cans ready)
                    00 Nuclear Damper
                       A:0.1 P:1 J:0
1xHanger Air Raft      Armor:0 Structure:6

Crew Data: 1 Pilot/Astrogator/Electronics and 1 Engineer.


 The Goshawk Far Trader is the successor to the Sidhe TL-11 Far Trader,
 it uses the miniaturization of fusion plants to great advantage.  It
 has been designed to haul a fair bit of cargo, and several passengers.
 It is definetly not a warship, it has very thin  armor.  The armor is
 proof against small arms fire, but not much else.  A sandcaster is
 factory standard, but other weaponry is available upon request.  The
 ship also has an extremely poor sensor suite, but for normal navigation
 it works fine.  It does have an air raft in an 8 ton vehicle bay,
 located in the front of the ship.  The vehicle bay has its own
 cargo bay door to facilitate unloading.

 The ship is configured to carry passengers, but it isn't intended to
 carry High passengers. These passengers require more room, and
 This is the ship which will eventually evolve into the sleek looking
 Jayhawk Far Trader.  In the early years of the Imperium the ship has
 some of the retro look that is so trendy.  Instead of Jayhawk's rear
 airfoil, the Goshawk has twin tailfins.  These help the ship in atmospheric
 maneuvering.  In general it is just slightly boxier looking than a Jayhawk.

 I tried to follow the designs of previous Far Traders, including the
 TL-12 Jayhawk, and the TL-15 Empress Marva. I also designed a Tl-11
 version, a TL-15 version, and a variant of the Empress Marva. I'll
 post these in the next few days.

 Costs
 I assume the standard 25 trips a year with full occupancy.

 Down Payment:  11.586MCr

 Yearly Expenses
 Bank Payment: 2.574 MCr
 Annual Maintenance Fee: 0.05793 MCr
 Salaries: 0.12 MCr      (6000cr for Pilot + 4000Cr for Engineer x12 months)
 Life Support: 0.75 MCr (2000Cr x 15 staterooms x 25 trips)
 Monthly Fuel: 0.1001 MCr (40 tons jump fuel x 25 trips + 1 PP ton *100cr/ton)
Total: 3.602MCr

 Yearly Income
 Middle Passages: 2.6 MCr
 Cargo: 1.85 MCr  (74 tons * 25 trips * 1000Cr) (3 tons is set aside for
baggage)
Total: 4.45

 Net Income=0.848 MCr

 At 80% occupancy of both cargo and passengers, it brings in 3.56MCr
 causing it to lose a small amount of money.  If the ship is able to make more
 than 25 trips, with quick turn around times, it will make more money.
 The passengers allow the ship to break even, with pure cargo the ship
 will lose money.

*****************************************
*****************************************



**********************************************
New Victoria T-300 Series Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************



**********************************************
New Victoria T-300 Series Far Trader

Overall:
Commercial Feasibility:
Innovativeness & coolosity:
Roleplaying potential:
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules:

********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:01:41 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Steward requirements

Paul D. Owensby writes:
>Stewards 2 (one required for command crew plus one required for middle
>        passengers, per QSDS 1.5)

I suggest that this rule should be interpreted as 1/8th of a steward per
command crew and high passenger and 1/50th of a steward per crew and mid
passenger (With a minimum of one).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:18:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Why the Universe Changed (core sector)

From the Commander at the office
(pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

Here's some interesting things to use for your campain to explain why the T4 
map suddenly is wrong.

1) It was an Old Sylean Map, the IISS changed it on year 0 to match new 
data.

2)It was an old Solomani(Rule of Man) map.  The new map accounts for 2000 
years of stellar drift(REEEEACHING!).

3)It was an old Vilani (1st Imperium) map  New map accounts for 6000 yrs of 
stellar drift (realy REEEEEEEACHING!)

or my personal favorites....
4)You're not cleared for that information.

or
5)FNORD!

and
6)  there is NO number 6!

I have not yet been able to get M:0 and 1st survey yet, but no doubt will be 
buying at the con this weekend!  At last, some background information, my 
PC's can finaly leave Planet X and see what the Imperium is!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:34:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices

The thruster prices in QSDS 1.5 is 14 times higher than in QSDS 1.4. Is this
a mistake?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:41:59 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD entries part 2

Its seem the last part of my THUDDD entry, The Burov Far Trader, was miss=
ing
so is the missing part:

Please feel free to come and take look at the Burov and its deckplans onl=
ine
at:
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/fartrdr1.htm)
or the two other variants at:
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/fartrdr2.htm)

By Chris Cox (chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
Copyright 1997=A9 Lawrence C. Cox
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights
reserved.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:37:34 -0600 (CST)
From: lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: RE: Back to the old Core subsector

> Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what
> it was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
>         This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign,
>         because I
> am NOT going to just pretend that nothing happened. When my players
> get back from their little jaunt to the Gushemege sector, they will
> find everything...different.
>         So guys, help me figure out (in story terms) what happened...

This is what I would do.  The idea works best if the players have not been
told that the Core layout has changed...

        When the players return to Core, don't tell them right off the bat
that anything is wrong.  Let them begin to stumble on the discrepancies
themselves.  Confused, they go back and check the nav computer...then the
library data...and everything checks out.  But this is not the way they
remember the Core subsector...
        Someone has altered their memories.  Some crucial event, or series
of events, has been edited out of their minds.  During the reprogramming,
certain extraneous details (like their remembrances of stellar positions and
planetary data) got skewed.  Now the players have to retrace their steps to
learn who has tampered with their minds, and why.  Could be a megacorp,
could be the Zhodani.  Hell, it could be the Ancients.  A crafty GM could
have a lot of fun making the players wonder just how much of their
background is real, or invented by someone else?  You could run a whole
campaign based on this premise.

Mike Lee
Classic Traveller player since 1978

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:46:29 -0600 (CST)
From: lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: RE: What Do Zhodani look like?

        The Zhodani were yet another branch of Humaniti that the Ancients
seeded on Zhodane about -300,000, relative to the current Imperial calendar,
circa 1112.  From a cultural standpoint, they promote psionics rather than
repress them, so there is a much higher incidence of finding active psions
amid the Zhodani population.  Being of the same genetic stock as the rest of
Humaniti, there is no significant physical differences between Zhodani and
Imperials.  Put an Imperial and a Zhodani in the same room and you couldn't
tell them apart.
        Important note: this information is drawn from the GDW CT Aliens
supplement "Zhodani- Adventures with the Psionic Masters".  It is always
possible that there might be changes made to the race with the advent of T4.
Hope this helps a little.

Mike Lee
Classic Traveller player since 1978

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:02:34 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: ISBA? I vote NAY

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, William F. Hostman wrote:

> Please, move ISBA OFF TML.
> <IMNSHO>
>  It is a PBEM, it is pure B_LLS__T AFAI care, and it takes almost 50% of my
> d/l time. It has it's place, yes, but it is of limited to no interest for
> myself, and obviously a few others.
> </IMNSHO>
> 
> 
> William F. Hostman
> Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com
> 
> Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
> Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan
> 
 
Although you have no interest in it, several others do. And although I
have no interest in several other topics that goes on in this list
I don't want them moved of the list. Although you use to much of your
time reading the ISBA posts, it seems to me that there should be no
problem jumping over the posts as most of them have clear
roleplaying given subjects.  "******* wuth new press release." and 
so forth. 

Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:10:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: "Why the universe did not change"

Hi.

I haven't seen M:0 yet, I'm still playing in the rulebook Core
subsector. While I intend to buy M:0, I don't expect that my players
will, they'll get their stellar information from the rulebook, and will
not put up with my changing the universe on them.

Question: What is the most feasable way of changing M:0 to be consistent
with the rulebook Core?

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:23:02 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Back to the Old Core

On 17 Feb 97 at 6:28, John Watts spewed:

> Hmmmmm.... sounds like an alternative universe adventure to me.
> 

Well, you can always blame it on Yaskoydray.  He seems to be 
responsible for a lot of other Traveller weirdness.  :-)

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:27:20 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Crew requirements - a question

According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the 
crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.

Tommy Grav 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:34:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: My damn THUDDD Entry!

Damn my timeless hide! I finished my THUDDD write-up just last night...
Oh well. It's an interesting Design anyways.

- --

GSbAG Marco Polo Class Far Trader(s) (SSDS)

TL 10 version

Tons: 200 Std (Box SL)   Volume: 2800 m^3             Cost: 65.91 MCr
Crew: 4                  High/Mid Pass: 0/2           Low: 5
Cargo: 69 Std            Controls: Civ Std            TL: 10

08 Size                               01 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (HEPlaR/CG, 100/27 Mw)
                                      02 Power Plant (Fission, 200 Mw)
                                      76 Fuel (LHyd), 1.5 (Fissionable)
                                      00 Meson Screen
                                      00 Sandcasters 
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors
                                      00 Armor, 00 Structure

TL 11 version

Tons: 200 Std (Box SL)   Volume: 2800 m^3             Cost: 113.82 MCr
Crew: 4                  High/Mid Pass: 0/2           Low: 10
Cargo: 90 Std            Controls: Civ Std            TL: 11

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (Thruster, 50 Mw)
                                      05 Power Plant (Fusion, 500 Mw)
                                      45 Fuel
                                      00 Meson Screen
                                      00 Sandcasters 
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors
                                      00 Armor, 00 Structure

TL 12 version

Tons: 200 Std (Box SL)   Volume: 2800 m^3             Cost: 72.32 MCr
Crew: 4                  High/Mid Pass: 0/2           Low: 10
Cargo: 106 Std           Controls: Civ Std            TL: 12

08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      01 Maneuver (Thruster, 50 Mw)
                                      1.5 Power Plant (Fusion+, 150 Mw)
                                      42 Fuel
                                      00 Meson Screen
                                      00 Sandcasters 
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors
                                      00 Armor, 00 Structure

For all versions:
Crew Detail: 1 Command, 1 Pilot, 1 Medic, 1 Steward
Includes 2 person Sickbay, Standard Civilian Sensor package of 
appropriate TL, 2 airlocks and 1 large cargo hatch (20 m^2).

Financial Breakdown

All expenses & revenues are based on a 2 week trip, with
25 trips per standard year (50 weeks + 2 weeks for annual
maintenance), running with a full hold & all passengers.

Ship TL         TL 10        TL 11         TL 12
Total Ship Cost 65,905,290   113,815,290   72,319,340
Down Payment    13,181,058    22,763,058   14,463,868

Expenses			

Loan payment       131,811       227,631      144,639
Fuel                37,857        20,000       20,000
Life Support        12,500        13,000       13,000
Routine Maintenance  2,636         4,553        2,893
Crew Salaries			
  Captain/Owner          0             0            0
  Pilot/Navigator    3,000         3,000        3,000
  Steward            1,000         1,000        1,000
  Medic              1,000         1,000        1,000
Berthing Costs         100           100          100
                   -------       -------      -------
Total              189,904       270,283      185,631


Revenue			
			
Cargo Profit 
 (per Std)           2,448         2,715        1,506
Cargo              168,912       244,350      159,636
Passengers          21,000        26,000       26,000
                   -------       -------      -------			
Total              189,912       270,350      185,636

Total Profit             8            67            5
(ie. these are 'break-even- figures)

NOTE: The line "Cargo Profit (per Std)" refers to the
average profit per Std. of cargo that the ship must
earn to break even. None of these ships can break even 
by hauling cargo at 1,000 Cr/Std. It is not unreasonable,
however, to assume that a competent merchantman can 
earn more than this by speculating.

Furthermore, note that from TL11 to TL12, the amount of 
profit needed per Std of cargo goes from 2,715 to 1,506, a drop 
of 44%! The Far Trader becomes _much_ more profitable
with the introduction of Fusion+ at TL12. Although the TL10
version is is slightly cheaper than the TL11 version, it
is less desirable in that it uses HEPlaR drives instead of 
thrusters and it uses a fission pile instead of a fusion
reactor, both of which are difficult for typical merchant
crews to maintain in the field.

Also, the ship has no skimming or refining capabilities and
all costs are calculated assuming that refined fuel is 
available and purchased.

None of these are passenger ships - all crew and the 2 
middle class passengers (if any) have small staterooms.
If there are no low passengers, the medic can be omitted
from the crew roster. If the middle passage cabins are
empty and the captain and/or pilot is competent to make
cargo arrangements at port, then the steward can be omitted 
as well, saving crew and life support costs. The sickbay
and the medic are necessities, however, if any low passangers
are being carried.

Finally, as you probably noticed, it's unarmed. Stay out of
trouble. (Any ships that expects to buy refined fuel at every
port of call can also assume that it's not likely to get into
any firefights.)

- ---------

PRESS RELEASE

Sylea - GSbAG released the plans today for the newest in its
line of 'Marco Polo' class Far Traders. This newest model in 
a distinguished line of ships mounts the same basic drive
components as its predecessor, but incorporates a new Zunhastu
Lab Fusion+ unit, thus greatly increasing the amount of space
available for cargo. At the press conference, Rishii Smith of 
'Road, Track & SubOrbital' said,

 "It's a great ship! Neat, compact and over 50 percent of it is
 devoted to cargo! Amazing! It's almost rude of GSbAG to release
 such a ship - it's going to put all the owners of the old
 'Marco Polo' class ships out of business!"

When asked about this at the press announcement, the GSbAG
representative replied that "... we've had the previous version
of the 'Marco Polo' on the market for three hundred and fifty-
four years, did you think we were going to rest on our laurels?"

The new 'Marco Polo' mounts a jump-2 drive and thrusters capable
of one standard gee, similar to the previous version. Upgraded
components include an improved sensor and communication suite,
increased computer capacity, but most importantly, the new Fusion+
plant and increased cargo space. There is an extra 16 standard
displacement tons of cargo space in the new model, which means
extra profits for any free merchant. GSbAG continues in its 
tradition of looking after ship crews, even in jump space, by
providing its standard 2-person sickbay and GSbAG's well-known,
high quality system recyclers and food processors.

Finally, the new 'Marco Polo' is also a breakthrough in terms 
of price - for just 14.5 MCr you can put down an initial 
payment on one of these ships and be moving you crew and cargo 
in upgraded, modern style.

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:44:29 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <hollands@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe traveller-digest


Colin Hollands	
Programmer Analyst - Financial Systems
MIS Europe & Africa Region
Phone:	0171 413 3413
Fax:	0171 257 6369

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:43:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: What do Zhodanis look like?

> From: James Garriss <jpg@langley.mitre.org>
> Subject: What do Zhodanis Look Like?
> 
> Are there any physical/appearance differences between Imperial citizens and
> Zhodanis?

From memory, they are taller than average (Zhodane/Zhdant is about .9g),
and vaguely middle-eastern looking - they lean more towards olive/tan colour
skin and were always portrayed wearing turbans for some inexplicable reason...
when I say middle-eastern, think Turkey or Greece, although I realize that's
not Middle-eastern... Mediterriean! (sp) That's what I'm looking for.
Think Mediterrean. 

Ethan

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:17:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Crew requirements: Astrogators

Hi.

> From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

> An astrogator should just be one of the 
> crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
> member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
> nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.

Whether you are missing something depends on your campaign. In my
campaign, the astrogator (more properly, the /navigator/) keeps
watch over the ship's progress through jumpspace and calculates
the jumpspace course corrections needed to offset small inaccuracies
in the initial jump solution. He's busy all week.

"Travelling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops boy!"

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:33:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: THUDDD: Maximum Staterooms

This recently showed up mysteriously in the Sylean network, but I
thought that some of you might be interested, seeing that it touches
on the THUDDD far trader design contest.  It clearly affected the
final design for Ketaru Aerospace's entry.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>


CONFIDENTIAL

TO:   [deleted]
      Ketaru Aerospace, LIC
      Mifa Lanco, Capital/Core
    
FROM: [deleted]
      Tukera Financial, LIC
      Cleon, Capital/Core
      
RE:   THUDDD-1 CONCEPT "C" PASSENGER COMPLEMENT

[deleted]

Here is the data you requested on our feeder line experiences with
interstellar passenger demand.  This information is sensitive, and
should not be disclosed to anyone not on the primary design team.

Our investigations indicate that fledgling lines and free traders
appear to observe demand based primarily on the population of the
worlds served.  In our initial compilation of several years worth
of data, we have arrived at the following average demand for low,
high, and middle passages, and freight shipments:

 Pop.    --- Passengers ---    Freight 
(UWP)    High  Middle  Cold     (Std)
 -------------------------------------
  0       --     --     --        --  
  1       --      1      1         0
  2        0      3      7        60       
  3        5      6      7       105
  4        6      6      9.5     150
  5        6      8.5    9.5     195
  6        8.5    8.5   10.5     240
  7        8.5    9.5   10.5     285
  8        9.5    9.5   14       333
  9        9.5   10.5   17.5     378
  A       10.5   14     21       429

However, we have abserved that ships which carry a purser even
moderately skilled in administration and the art of working
with people tend to increase their averages of high and middle
passengers by one or two tickets in each category.  This seems
to be due to better working relationships with the ticketing
agencies and better success in attracting the higher-classs
passenger.

Filling cargo holds is, of course, not a problem, especially
in the small size class of the THUDDD-1 starships.  We feel
that there should be enough freight in transit from most 
worlds to keep the holds full, and any shortfall can most
certainly be made up by speculative trade.  We will make no
assumptions of the ability of the average new line owner to
operate more profitably primarily in speculative trade, at
least without Tukera's long experience in this matter. 

We're still in the process of compiling this data and making
statistical studies of how they fluctuate, but at this time
we recommend no more than twelve staterooms in each ticketing
classification to maintain full passenger carriage rates, and
this is assuming that routes are chosen mainly to travel to
worlds with a population of one million or more.  Admittedly,
this is a conservative estimate, but we believe a safe one.
Clearly, transits directly between high population worlds can 
carry much more in the way of lucrative passenger traffic.

We hope this information is of assistance.

Cordially, 

  [deleted]
  
TUKERA FINANCIAL, LIC            
a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tukera Lines, LIC, CAPITAL/CORE

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #960
**********************************
yTraveller-digest      Monday, February 17 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 961



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Milieu 0/First Survey - Core has moved again!
Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)
Re: Questions about SSDS (Official answers requested)
old core sector
[none]
Re: Questions about SSDS (Official answers requested)
Re: Mutating Core Sector, also the Ancients
THUDDD: Maximum Staterooms
Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)
Re: The color of J-space (and other curiosities)
Re: THUDD & Cargo Costs
Re: Back to the old Core Subsector
Re: Milieu 0/First Survey - Core has moved again!
Suspended in Geffa
RE: What Do Zhodani look like?
Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:28:29 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Milieu 0/First Survey - Core has moved again!

In response to those asking why the subsector has changed again, all
*should* be revealed in Marc Miller's upcoming adventure Anomalies (IIRC).

Come on chaps, I've hardly seen a critical word about Milieu 0. Please tear
it apart so that we (CORE) don't make the same mistakes in Pocket Empires
(assuming we made any in Milieu 0 of course...)

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:44:11 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)

Well folks.  Since I wrote part of Milieu 0, I don't feel real comfortable 
doing a review on the book, but I thought it would be useful to tell 
you a little about the book, what's in it, and what you can expect.

First of all its a really great book Dick, but you can't dance to it. 
I give it a 67, Dick.  Sorry, went into flashbacks of American 
Bandstand.  <G>

Anyways.  Here's your basic Milieu 0 Synopsis:  

Milieu 0 is 112 pages long, as many of the most recent T4 books have 
been.  There are 2 pages of ads, 1 for JTAS, 1 for First Survey.  The 
artwork is all Chris Foss.  All interior illustrations are black and 
white (no more color plates in the middle of the book.  It has the 
same rounded starship look that the other T4 books have, although a 
lot of the interior illos have lots of people <G>, and the  cover painting 
has a starship apparently lifting or moving giant busts the size of what 
you'd find on Easter Island.  Probably the most intriguing T4 cover yet, IMO.  

Longtime subscribers of TML will remember Marc Miller's Outline for 
the book which was posted last fall, so most of what I write will not 
be a surprise to them.  CORE took the liberty of rearranging the work 
into what we felt to be a more consistent manner.  

The book is seperated into 8 chapters, which I will detail as I list 
them.

Page 3, Table of Contents:  
Page 4, Introduction:  Your basic introduction.  
1 thing I like about it is the last paragraph which says the 
following:  "This is a meaty book.  There is a lot here to digest.  
But there is also incredible potential for adventure.  Enjoy."

As somebody who wrote part of the book, and saw the manuscript well 
before its publication, I can only agree.  Whether the meat in question 
is filet mignon, or round steak, I leave to you to decide.  :-)
 
Chapter 1:  Antecedents to the Imperium (pp. 5-12)

Basically a set of historical essays.  A very pro-Cleon history of 
the 1st and 2nd Imperiums, a bigger essay on the rise of the Sylean 
Federation and the rise of the Imperium out of it.  Writeups on 2 of 
Sylea's early neighbors/enemies, the Chanestin Kingdom and the 
Interstellar Confederacy.  A sidebar in the form of  a speech from an 
anti-Cleon member of the moot with an alternative view on just how 
"benevolent" the new Imperium is.  A lot of the stuff on the 1st and 
2nd Imperiums are restatements of what you've seen before, from a 
slightly different point of view.  The rest of the stuff is all VERY 
new.

Chapter 2:  The Expansion Process  (pp. 13-25)

This chapter details the process of survey, exploration, 1st (and 
followup) Contacts, and basically the Scout method of adding worlds 
to the Imperium.  The chapter is loaded with adventure hooks, and gives 
some very definite adventure ideas.  Loaded with adventure hooks.

Chapter 3:  The First Wave  (pp. 26-41)

Lots of stuff.  This chapter talks about the first expansion of the 
3rd Imperium.  The Great Rift.  The Role of the Scouts, Army, & Navy 
in expansion.  Opportunities from Expansion (all kinds of roleplaying 
hints and adventure hooks).  Problems of the Expansion  (Internal 
Conflicts, Enemies, etc).  The chapter is basically 16 pages of 
adventure hooks.

Chapter 4:  Power Structures Circa Year 0  (pp. 42-63)  

Essays on the structure of the Sylean Federation.  A world writeup of 
Sylea itself.  Another essay on the governmental structure of the 
Third Imperium.  The Structure of the Vilani Confederation.  
Intelligence Agencies in Year 0.  Various essays on the Vilani as 
sidebars.  Adventure hooks aplenty for the Agent character class.  
The structure of a typical Year 0 megacorp (In this case, Zhunastu 
Industries).  Writeups on other megacorps of year 0, some familiar 
ones, and some unfamiliar ones.  Writeups on smaller corporations in 
Year 0, again, a few familiar ones, some unfamiliar.  An essay on the 
Imperial Moot.  An essay on something even Vilani & Vargr glossed 
over, the AAB.

Chapter 5:  Refereeing Milieu 0  (pp. 64-74)

A great essay on running political adventures in Traveller.  A brief 
writeup on the major races and the Imperium.  A writeup on the 
Jgd-Il-Jagd, a previously published Alien Minor race during the CT 
days that was not included in Aliens Archive.  Some Sample 
Encounters, Patrons, and Events.  An article on the Disciples of the 
Bright Way.  Archon Adventures  (Just what is the Archon, anyways?).

Chapter 6:  Library Data  (pp. 75-93)

Your basic library data section.  Writeups on the major personalities 
of the 3rd Imperium, the major places, organizations and things, such 
as Jeff Zeitlin's Warrant of Restoration (used with his permission, I might 
add, and nice work on his part).  Thanks, Jeff!  A History section with essays 
on history up to year 0.  

Unfortunately, 1 of the "things" was inadvertently omitted from 
pp. 86, the deckplan for the Scout Cruiser (since I designed the 
deckplan, I will be seeking IG's permission shortly to have it posted 
on IG's website, or rather, since I have the opportunity to dress it up 
and make it look even better, I'll do that, then seek permission to post).  

Chapter 7:  Core Sector, Referee Data (pp. 94-103)

Pretty self explanatory.  The data from First Survey's Core sector is 
included here, along with a map.

Chapter 8:  Rumors (pp. 104-110)

The TML submitted rumors are listed, with proper credit (AFAIK) for 
those who submitted rumors a couple of months ago in response to a 
request by Tony Lee.

Summary:  

I said I'm not going to pretend to give you an objective review of a 
product that I wrote part of.  I won't.  I like this book.  It has a 
ton of adventure hooks, and all sorts of good stuff that is 
immediately useful to somebody looking to run a Milieu 0 campaign.  
I was very proud of the work that CORE submitted to IG back in 
November when it happened.  Looking at it now, I'm just as proud.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:46:08 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Questions about SSDS (Official answers requested)

At 11:49 am 02/16/97, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>  Whilst working on my StarShip Assembly line program (see the other 
>message from me), and designing my THUDD entry, I came across a couple
>of problems.
>
>  On page 74, the calculation of engineers for drives mentions using both
>mass and volume for the base figure. Which of these should it be? My
>preference would be for volume, as this is much smaller than the mass.

	Should be volume; another correction that didn't get made before print.

>  The table of Fuel Purification Plants (TL12) starts at a 20 displacement
>ton monster. For your average Far Trader this is uneconomical. Are there
>any restraints to us coming up with a smaller version, say 5 or 10 ton,
>based on the original FFS formulae and calling this an SSDS component also?

	No, that was part of the reason for using FF&S as a basis. Feel free to
make up more stuff.
- -- Dave Golden        http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:25:27 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mark James Wilkin <aa4mwi@zen.sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: old core sector

Isn't this what the upcoming adventure anomalies is going to be about, I 
remeber Marc going all enigmatic about this when asked. Marc can you 
clear this up for us?

*** "*Thwap* My life needs a rewind/erase button"          	***
***                                          Calvin and Hobbes  ***
*** Mark James Wilkin                                           ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:33:04 -0800
From: 
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:46:08 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Questions about SSDS (Official answers requested)

At 11:49 am 02/16/97, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>  Whilst working on my StarShip Assembly line program (see the other 
>message from me), and designing my THUDD entry, I came across a couple
>of problems.
>
>  On page 74, the calculation of engineers for drives mentions using both
>mass and volume for the base figure. Which of these should it be? My
>preference would be for volume, as this is much smaller than the mass.

	Should be volume; another correction that didn't get made before print.

>  The table of Fuel Purification Plants (TL12) starts at a 20 displacement
>ton monster. For your average Far Trader this is uneconomical. Are there
>any restraints to us coming up with a smaller version, say 5 or 10 ton,
>based on the original FFS formulae and calling this an SSDS component also?

	No, that was part of the reason for using FF&S as a basis. Feel free to
make up more stuff.
- -- Dave Golden        http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:33:04 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Mutating Core Sector, also the Ancients

>2)You could bring in the Ancients.  If you have another pocket empire
>in the area. You could have them somehow find an Ancient device that
>is capable of altering space-time.  Their scientists try to use the 
>device to wipe out the new found Imperium.  But due to their lack of a
>full understanding of the device, they totaly mutate everything.
>Destroying several planets and moving others around.  It would
>be really neat if they managed to wipe out their own worlds.  
>You'd get to bring in the old theme of scientists playing with forces
>that they don't understand.  see countless bad sci-fi movies.
>It would be interesting if the players knew people ont he planets
>that disappered.

Along these lines, you could send them on part of their current adventure
that takes them back in time, with the promise that they will come back to
the present... of course, it may not be the present that *they* remember...
who knows how things might change?  :)

Re: the Ancients:  how many of you have made use of Grandfather and/or the
Ancients in your campaigns?  I've got a campaign idea that involves beings
that _may_ have been Ancients at one time, and could involve some Big
Changes to the system the players find themselves in (but not, I think,
with the risk of making the game unplayable later).  Hmmm.  I guess that
sounds pretty nebulous.  Anyway, I'd be interested in how anyone else has
used the Ancients, if at all.

Thanks.

Mike Sellers

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:33:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: THUDDD: Maximum Staterooms

This recently showed up mysteriously in the Sylean network, but I
thought that some of you might be interested, seeing that it touches
on the THUDDD far trader design contest.  It clearly affected the
final design for Ketaru Aerospace's entry.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>


CONFIDENTIAL

TO:   [deleted]
      Ketaru Aerospace, LIC
      Mifa Lanco, Capital/Core
    
FROM: [deleted]
      Tukera Financial, LIC
      Cleon, Capital/Core
      
RE:   THUDDD-1 CONCEPT "C" PASSENGER COMPLEMENT

[deleted]

Here is the data you requested on our feeder line experiences with
interstellar passenger demand.  This information is sensitive, and
should not be disclosed to anyone not on the primary design team.

Our investigations indicate that fledgling lines and free traders
appear to observe demand based primarily on the population of the
worlds served.  In our initial compilation of several years worth
of data, we have arrived at the following average demand for low,
high, and middle passages, and freight shipments:

 Pop.    --- Passengers ---    Freight 
(UWP)    High  Middle  Cold     (Std)
 -------------------------------------
  0       --     --     --        --  
  1       --      1      1         0
  2        0      3      7        60       
  3        5      6      7       105
  4        6      6      9.5     150
  5        6      8.5    9.5     195
  6        8.5    8.5   10.5     240
  7        8.5    9.5   10.5     285
  8        9.5    9.5   14       333
  9        9.5   10.5   17.5     378
  A       10.5   14     21       429

However, we have abserved that ships which carry a purser even
moderately skilled in administration and the art of working
with people tend to increase their averages of high and middle
passengers by one or two tickets in each category.  This seems
to be due to better working relationships with the ticketing
agencies and better success in attracting the higher-classs
passenger.

Filling cargo holds is, of course, not a problem, especially
in the small size class of the THUDDD-1 starships.  We feel
that there should be enough freight in transit from most 
worlds to keep the holds full, and any shortfall can most
certainly be made up by speculative trade.  We will make no
assumptions of the ability of the average new line owner to
operate more profitably primarily in speculative trade, at
least without Tukera's long experience in this matter. 

We're still in the process of compiling this data and making
statistical studies of how they fluctuate, but at this time
we recommend no more than twelve staterooms in each ticketing
classification to maintain full passenger carriage rates, and
this is assuming that routes are chosen mainly to travel to
worlds with a population of one million or more.  Admittedly,
this is a conservative estimate, but we believe a safe one.
Clearly, transits directly between high population worlds can 
carry much more in the way of lucrative passenger traffic.

We hope this information is of assistance.

Cordially, 

  [deleted]
  
TUKERA FINANCIAL, LIC            
a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tukera Lines, LIC, CAPITAL/CORE

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:44:11 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)

Well folks.  Since I wrote part of Milieu 0, I don't feel real comfortable 
doing a review on the book, but I thought it would be useful to tell 
you a little about the book, what's in it, and what you can expect.

First of all its a really great book Dick, but you can't dance to it. 
I give it a 67, Dick.  Sorry, went into flashbacks of American 
Bandstand.  <G>

Anyways.  Here's your basic Milieu 0 Synopsis:  

Milieu 0 is 112 pages long, as many of the most recent T4 books have 
been.  There are 2 pages of ads, 1 for JTAS, 1 for First Survey.  The 
artwork is all Chris Foss.  All interior illustrations are black and 
white (no more color plates in the middle of the book.  It has the 
same rounded starship look that the other T4 books have, although a 
lot of the interior illos have lots of people <G>, and the  cover painting 
has a starship apparently lifting or moving giant busts the size of what 
you'd find on Easter Island.  Probably the most intriguing T4 cover yet, IMO.  

Longtime subscribers of TML will remember Marc Miller's Outline for 
the book which was posted last fall, so most of what I write will not 
be a surprise to them.  CORE took the liberty of rearranging the work 
into what we felt to be a more consistent manner.  

The book is seperated into 8 chapters, which I will detail as I list 
them.

Page 3, Table of Contents:  
Page 4, Introduction:  Your basic introduction.  
1 thing I like about it is the last paragraph which says the 
following:  "This is a meaty book.  There is a lot here to digest.  
But there is also incredible potential for adventure.  Enjoy."

As somebody who wrote part of the book, and saw the manuscript well 
before its publication, I can only agree.  Whether the meat in question 
is filet mignon, or round steak, I leave to you to decide.  :-)
 
Chapter 1:  Antecedents to the Imperium (pp. 5-12)

Basically a set of historical essays.  A very pro-Cleon history of 
the 1st and 2nd Imperiums, a bigger essay on the rise of the Sylean 
Federation and the rise of the Imperium out of it.  Writeups on 2 of 
Sylea's early neighbors/enemies, the Chanestin Kingdom and the 
Interstellar Confederacy.  A sidebar in the form of  a speech from an 
anti-Cleon member of the moot with an alternative view on just how 
"benevolent" the new Imperium is.  A lot of the stuff on the 1st and 
2nd Imperiums are restatements of what you've seen before, from a 
slightly different point of view.  The rest of the stuff is all VERY 
new.

Chapter 2:  The Expansion Process  (pp. 13-25)

This chapter details the process of survey, exploration, 1st (and 
followup) Contacts, and basically the Scout method of adding worlds 
to the Imperium.  The chapter is loaded with adventure hooks, and gives 
some very definite adventure ideas.  Loaded with adventure hooks.

Chapter 3:  The First Wave  (pp. 26-41)

Lots of stuff.  This chapter talks about the first expansion of the 
3rd Imperium.  The Great Rift.  The Role of the Scouts, Army, & Navy 
in expansion.  Opportunities from Expansion (all kinds of roleplaying 
hints and adventure hooks).  Problems of the Expansion  (Internal 
Conflicts, Enemies, etc).  The chapter is basically 16 pages of 
adventure hooks.

Chapter 4:  Power Structures Circa Year 0  (pp. 42-63)  

Essays on the structure of the Sylean Federation.  A world writeup of 
Sylea itself.  Another essay on the governmental structure of the 
Third Imperium.  The Structure of the Vilani Confederation.  
Intelligence Agencies in Year 0.  Various essays on the Vilani as 
sidebars.  Adventure hooks aplenty for the Agent character class.  
The structure of a typical Year 0 megacorp (In this case, Zhunastu 
Industries).  Writeups on other megacorps of year 0, some familiar 
ones, and some unfamiliar ones.  Writeups on smaller corporations in 
Year 0, again, a few familiar ones, some unfamiliar.  An essay on the 
Imperial Moot.  An essay on something even Vilani & Vargr glossed 
over, the AAB.

Chapter 5:  Refereeing Milieu 0  (pp. 64-74)

A great essay on running political adventures in Traveller.  A brief 
writeup on the major races and the Imperium.  A writeup on the 
Jgd-Il-Jagd, a previously published Alien Minor race during the CT 
days that was not included in Aliens Archive.  Some Sample 
Encounters, Patrons, and Events.  An article on the Disciples of the 
Bright Way.  Archon Adventures  (Just what is the Archon, anyways?).

Chapter 6:  Library Data  (pp. 75-93)

Your basic library data section.  Writeups on the major personalities 
of the 3rd Imperium, the major places, organizations and things, such 
as Jeff Zeitlin's Warrant of Restoration (used with his permission, I might 
add, and nice work on his part).  Thanks, Jeff!  A History section with essays 
on history up to year 0.  

Unfortunately, 1 of the "things" was inadvertently omitted from 
pp. 86, the deckplan for the Scout Cruiser (since I designed the 
deckplan, I will be seeking IG's permission shortly to have it posted 
on IG's website, or rather, since I have the opportunity to dress it up 
and make it look even better, I'll do that, then seek permission to post).  

Chapter 7:  Core Sector, Referee Data (pp. 94-103)

Pretty self explanatory.  The data from First Survey's Core sector is 
included here, along with a map.

Chapter 8:  Rumors (pp. 104-110)

The TML submitted rumors are listed, with proper credit (AFAIK) for 
those who submitted rumors a couple of months ago in response to a 
request by Tony Lee.

Summary:  

I said I'm not going to pretend to give you an objective review of a 
product that I wrote part of.  I won't.  I like this book.  It has a 
ton of adventure hooks, and all sorts of good stuff that is 
immediately useful to somebody looking to run a Milieu 0 campaign.  
I was very proud of the work that CORE submitted to IG back in 
November when it happened.  Looking at it now, I'm just as proud.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 18:06 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: The color of J-space (and other curiosities)

In-Reply-To: <l03010d02af2a75a7505a@[205.159.184.50]>

> 2. The actual act of entering J-space involves a massive burst of energy.
> What does an observer see when a ship enters J-space?  If a crewmember were
> looking out a viewport, what would they see?  Does the event affect the
> crew at all (sensations, etc.)?

An external observer would detect a burst of energy (neutrinos, gravitational 
disturbance, plus radiation from visible light to infra-red); basically a bright 
flash lasting a fraction of a second. The energy released is proportional to the 
size of ship and distance jumped.

The effect on crew and passengers varies. Most report a moment of dizziness, 
and/or a falling sensation. Headaches or mild nausea are not uncommon. Misjumps 
generally feel worse.

> 3. Once in J-space, what, if anything, do crew looking out viewports see?

Viewing Jumpspace directly is extremely unpleasant, usually resulting in severe 
headaches and/or hallucinations.

> What sort of sensor readings does the ship get?

Heat: about 10K
Gravity: none
Visible: dull red
Radiation: variable, but generally low
Atmosphere: 'vacuum' (slightly denser than N-space)

> 4. If energy or matter is introduced to the N-space-J-space boundary, what
> happens?  Could this endanger the jumping ship?

Anything extending outside the (1m) bubble at the time of jump is cleanly cut 
off. Not usually dangerous unless a) it has a significant mass, or b) it blocks 
10% of the bubble.

Anything leaving the bubble during the jump misjumps catastrophically.

> 5. If for some reason the N-space bubble drops while in J-space, what happens?

It go boom!

> 6. When a ship re-enters N-space, what do observers (on and off the ship)
> see or feel?

Similar energy pulse, but much smaller (1%). Sensation as per J-space entry.

> 7. Are the different races' and manufacturers' jumpdrives sufficiently
> different to generate identifiable signatures for those who know what to
> look for?

An expert could tell the difference.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 18:06 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: THUDD & Cargo Costs

In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9702151108.A19898-0100000@netcom12>

<< If we want imperial trade mandates governing such trade, may be the rules 
could be:

1,000 Cr/ton for cargo originating at a Class A or B starport

1,500 Cr/ton at Class C Starports, and 2,000 Cr/ton at Class D starports

Comments? >>

How about (prices in kCr):

From/To  A   B   C   D   E

   A    1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.5
  
   B    1.1 1.2 1.3 1.5 1.9
  
   C    1.2 1.3 1.5 1.9 2.6
   
   D    1.3 1.5 1.9 2.6 3.9
  
   E    1.5 1.9 2.6 3.9 6.0
   
A small trader could make a decent living carrying cargo between low-class 
ports, but there wouldn't be enough demand for bigger ships to be economic 
there (1000-tonners would be unlikely to find enough to fill their holds).
  
    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:32:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Back to the old Core Subsector

In mail you write:

> Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what it
> was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
>         This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign, because I
> am NOT going to just pretend that nothing happened. When my players get back
> from their little jaunt to the Gushemege sector, they will find
> everything...different.
>         So guys, help me figure out (in story terms) what happened... :)

Have them make a "misjump". The jump isn't "right" but at first they
can't find anything wrong... 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0/First Survey - Core has moved again!

Hi.

> From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>

> Come on chaps, I've hardly seen a critical word about Milieu 0. Please tear
> it apart so that we (CORE) don't make the same mistakes in Pocket Empires
> (assuming we made any in Milieu 0 of course...)

I'm looking forward to tearing it apart as soon as I can get it! That
probably won't be till March though. Till then! 8^)

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 16:11:34 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: Suspended in Geffa

Greetings All:

I had sent word last week about spotting an article in Cinefantastique 
that mentioned Traveller, Sweetpea, etc. Here's an excerpt from that 
article that gives more details:

(BTW, all mistakes in names--"THE TRAVELLER", 'Mark' Miller" in the 
article...)

The article is "Coming Attractions" by Dan Persons and is in the March 
1997 issue (Volume 28, Number 9). To quote:

"This time around, we've got one guy whose production company has yet to 
produce a single frame of film, but whose snapping up of high-profile 
genre licenses seems to have caught the attention of one of Hollywood's 
major players..."

"Courtney Solomon seems to be auditioning for irrestible force. A while 
ago we told you how he (and a Canadian investor based in Hong Kong) 
picked up the feature rights to DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS for his newly formed 
Sweetpea ENtertainment production company. Now, he's not only grabbed all 
rights to another RPG classic, THE TRAVELLER, and is planning to launch 
what he terms a 'high-brow horror-thriller franchise' with something 
called THE DESCENDANT, he's also swung an agreement with Disney to pick 
up the live-action rights to Image Comics' hit title GEN 13. Objective: a 
full-length feature sometime in 1998."

(...material about D&D movie deleted...)

(...material about GEN 13 movie deleted...)

"Equally intriguing is Sweetpea's acquisition of THE TRAVELLER, the 
classic, science-fiction role-playing game which was recently re-released 
with new, and quite impressive, art by Chris Foss. Solomon has entered 
into an agreement with Rob Liefeld's Extreme Studios for a comic book to 
be released sometime in the next few months, with the ultimate goal a 
weekly TV series. 'It's a very different take,' says Solomon, 'than, say 
STAR TREK or STAR WARS. The real, core science ficiton fans know it, and 
they really look at it up on that same level, because it's sophisticated 
and it's intelligent. There are no defined characters there, but there's 
a very defined universe; really what Mark Miller, the creator, has done 
is create a hundred thousand years of future history, and he's divided 
them into 16 different eras. That's kind of cool, because when I look at 
it, I think to myself, <<begin italics>> Well, if your TV series flies, 
then you've got everything pre-done to go to a STAR TREK: THE NEXT 
GENERATION or DEEP SPACE NINE spin off... <<end italics>>...You're still 
keeping the main foundation, but you're moving into a different time 
period. It's very hard to find a property like that."

(...final semi-humorous paragraph deleted...)

Waiting in anticipation...



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:11:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: RE: What Do Zhodani look like?

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mike Lee wrote:

> 
>         The Zhodani were yet another branch of Humaniti that the Ancients
> seeded on Zhodane about -300,000, relative to the current Imperial calendar,
> circa 1112.  From a cultural standpoint, they promote psionics rather than
> repress them, so there is a much higher incidence of finding active psions
> amid the Zhodani population.  Being of the same genetic stock as the rest of
> Humaniti, there is no significant physical differences between Zhodani and
> Imperials.  Put an Imperial and a Zhodani in the same room and you couldn't
> tell them apart.

Um...although it might be difficult to spot a Zhodani individual in a
crowd of human Imperial citizens, Zhodani *are* moderately distinctive,
and certain generalizations can be made about "what Zhodani look like."
They tend to be tall and slender (because of the weaker gravity of their
"homeworld"), they have dark complexions, and black hair.  Zhodani have
slightly fewer teeth than Solomani (only 28, I believe), but their teeth
are slightly larger.  There are also subtle biochemical differences,
associated with the ability to digest the protein of their "homeworld." 
Please take this list of Zhodani traits with a grain of salt - I don't
have a copy of the relevant C.T. "Alien Module" with me as I type, and my
memory may be in error.   
                                                              - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:22:23 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek

On Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:13:39 -0600, you wrote:

> On 02/14/97 at 12:00 AM,  dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney) said:
>=20
> > *But* I watch B5 for the realism and plotline, and '*that*' show for =
fun!
> > It doesn't seem to take itself too seriously, and is harmless enough =
fun.
> > I can see your point of view - but it's nicely placed in the UK at
> > 11.15pm ish, just after the pubs start closing! ;-)
>=20
> S:AAB is "mind candy", pure and simple.  Nothing wrong with that, and a=
 few
> of the eposides actually had some good acting in them...well pretty =
good
> anyway.

Seems the cast of S:AAB had a clause in their contracts to appear in
other FOX shows if S:AAB ever failed to get renewed.  So far, all of
the major characters have had parts on Fox's X-Files and Millennium
(and yes, the better the actor, the bigger the part).

Of course, S:AAB got cancelled and Homeboys in Outer Space got
renewed... I think some execs have been spending too much time staring
off into jumpspace :)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #961
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 18 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 962



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?
T4 Software (was Re: Questions about SSDS...)
What do Zhodanis Look Like?
THUDDD addendum 2
Re: [T97#953] M0 and 1st Survey
Re: [T97#953] HG-T4 conversions
Re: Robot's as Ship's Crewmembers.
Re: THUDD Designs
Re: Zhodani looks
Geonee in M0
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Digest problems and the "Passenger Bug"
Ship Design
Re: Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)
Re: What Do Zhodani look like?
Re: Milieu 0: What's in there? (LONG)
Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?
Starship lifespan?
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: The color of J-space (and other curiosities)
Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek & S:AAB

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:50:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

Quoth James Garriss:
> Are there any physical/appearance differences between Imperial citizens and
> Zhodanis?

Teeth.  According to Alien Module 4 (CT), Zhodani have 28 teeth, as opposed
to the Solomani and Vilani 32, and the teeth tend to be marginally larger.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:41:26 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: T4 Software (was Re: Questions about SSDS...)

At 09:46 AM 2/17/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>  Whilst working on my StarShip Assembly line program (see the other 
>>message from me), and designing my THUDD entry, I came across a couple
>>of problems.

I made a request here a couple of days ago that may not have made it to the
list (and isn't in the FAQ).  If you have (or are working on) good, usable
software relevant to CT or T4, please let me know.  

Thanks!

Mike Sellers
msellers@ricochet.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:12:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

  Based on the illustrations in the Classic Traveller material, they're
all tall, skinny, dark-haired, and wear turbans and cute little beards.
Oh, and they look evil - real evil.

  I'd suggest the above is what most Imperials _think_ the Zho look like,
based on entertainment programs - real Zho probably exhibit variations
similar to current human norms.  I'll take a look in my Zho sourcebook and
see if there is any description of the question in there.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:27:03 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD addendum 2

        Just noted that in my post titled THUDDD Addendum, I neglected to
type in the names of the Goshhawk and Khushdakaa vessels on the ballot text
at the bottom of that text.  Please fix accordingly.  My  apologies.
Should teach me to do email while hung over.

        Secondly, Ethan Henry missed the deadline, which personally I don't
think ought to be fatal.  Just cut&paste&edit up another ballot form for
each of his variants on the Marco Polo trader and tack them onto the main
one (do the same for the Goshhawk and Khushdakaa).  I'll take care of this
for those of you that have already sent in their ballots; just send me your
ballots for the above ships and I'll deal with it.

        Keep the votes coming in!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 18:31:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#953] M0 and 1st Survey

galliand@juno.com (Scott M Galliand) writes...

T::>Well, as I haven't seen anybody else mention it, I guess I get to be the
 ::>first.

 Only because I download mail only once per day!  I got mine
 2/15 as well.

T::>First Survey looks good, with statistics on the sectors for both players
 ::>and referees.  I didn't see the original Atlas of the Imperium, so I
 ::>can't comment on format for it.

 The Atlas of the Imperium was essentially minimalist maps.  You
 got a starport type, and indications of bases, gas giants,
 allegiance, and whether or not the world was a desert.  You
 also got a name on the HiPop worlds.  But that was it.  No jump
 routes, no names except as indicated, no UWPs, etc.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  OS/2 2.0 VirusScan - Windows 3.1 found: Remove it? (Y/y)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 18:31:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#953] HG-T4 conversions

Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu> hath scriven...

T::>  Well, I've been promising for a long time to post some rules for the
 ::>  conversion of High Guard USP's to T4 USP's.  The advantages to using
 ::>  High Guard (and Book 2) to design starships are:

 [...deletia...]

 ::>  These rules are not yet complete (two items have yet to be finished:
 ::>  meson screens and repulsers), but I figured I'd go ahead and post what
 ::>  I had. Please, please, please send me lots of advice and criticism.

T::>ARMOR   ---

T::>  I show below two versions of HG-to-T4 armor conversion. The first is
 ::>  from the following official sources: HG to Striker, then Striker to
 ::>  FFS. But the conversion from HG to Striker, while official, is also
 ::>  very arbitrary. So I have substituted the arbitrary HG-Striker
 ::>  conversion with my own arbitrary and easy HG-T4 direct conversion.

 Your system is a straight multiplication of HG by 10.  This
 starts out proportionately far below the Official T4 values,
 and rapidly climbs extremely far above them.  A not-much-more-
 difficult conversion would be to use (HG*5)+15.  That would
 give the values in the following table (yours and HG included
 for comparison).

T::>  HG USP  Official T4   RF's T4   JZ's T4
 ::>  -- ---  -------- --   ---- --   ---- --
 ::>  0       17            0         15
 ::>  1       23            10        20
 ::>  2       26            20        25
 ::>  3       30            30        30
 ::>  4       34            40        35
 ::>  5       38            50        40
 ::>  6       44            60        45
 ::>  7       47            70        50
 ::>  8       50            80        55
 ::>  9       54            90        60
 ::>  10      58            100       65
 ::>  11      61            110       70
 ::>  12      65            120       75
 ::>  13      69            130       80
 ::>  14      74            140       85
 ::>  15      79            150       90
 ::>  16      82            160       95
 ::>  17      85            170       100
 ::>  18      88            180       105
 ::>  19      92            190       110
 ::>  20      95            200       115
 ::>  21      99            210       120

 This has the benefit of being almost as easy as a straight out
 multiply by 10 to remember.  A more accurate formula would be
 to use (HG*4)+17.  That tracks the official numbers _very_
 closely.  A simple formula to remember, though with awkward
 numbers.  And it doesn't involve going through FF&S to obtain
 virtually identical results.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  113 grams, 10 milliliters ... he's lead, Jim.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:19:11 -0500
From: russcm@zoomnet.net (Christopher M. Russell)
Subject: Re: Robot's as Ship's Crewmembers.

>  The above makes the assumption that a standard ship's computer can
>handle the computations - the Catalog is vague on the central computer
>requirements to run companions.  

I was always under the impression that the computations for the reduction in
crew due to computer processing power was due to the robot augmentation that
came with the computer.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:21:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: THUDD Designs

  Well, I'm not going to vote, since my design is included in the
offerings, but I do want to make a few comments after my first
look-through.  I was pleased with the diversity of the entries.  While
most ships were in the 200 ton J2 class, the few 300T entries were very
interesting.  Just shows how much the basic components cost - 100T more
size does not add that much to the cost.  I especially liked the 300T J3
design - a bit expensive, but perhaps worth it.

  The following points are preliminary - I'll post more detailed notes
later.

1) It appears that most folks took one of two routes to a design.  One
path was the "cheap" route - leave off enough bells and whistles and it'll
be cheap enough to maybe make money.  Most of these designs left off
weapons, and all shaved crew in one way or another.  The second path might
be called the "middle passage" path - these ships had lots of middle
passage cabins to generate the revenue needed to break even.  The first
path results in ships that are dull from a roleplaying standpoint, the
second path ignores the passenger generation table in the T4 rulebook.
Only planets with pop 9+ generate more than 10 middle passengers on
average.

2) The single best idea I saw was the folding fuel tanks.  I didn't
think of it, since my head is in Classic Traveller, but for a trader
operating in an area of high stellar density (like the area around Sylea).
I'll probably add this to my next design, along with the robot crew
members.

3) I noticed some errors in my own Generica Starships design - I really
need a commander, so an additional stateroom is in order, as well as a
workstation.  Fortunatly, there is room - since air rafts are now 1 ton
rather than the tradditional 4, that extra space can go to accomadating
the commander.  Since the thing lost money anyway, no big deal as far as
the economics goes.

4) I think my design was closest to the CT Far Trader, though some others
were in there.  Looks like most folks decided not to have two turrets -
lasers suck power, and the powerplant costs money and cargo space.

  Overall, very interesting.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:24:01 -0500 (EST)
From: pierre-louis constantin <Pierre-Louis.Constantin@DMI.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: Zhodani looks

Hello!
 
	Here's a repost of my random humaniti description table,
which I tried to make as accurate as possible based on all the data
available.  Sorry, it's in LaTeX format, but you should be able to
figure it out.
 
\subsection{Character Descriptions}

\subsubsection{Human Physical Appearance Generation}
\begin{tabular}{l|l|l|l|l|l|}
&Eye Color   &      Hair Color & Skin Tone&Hair Length & Hair style\\
\hline
2  &Pink          &  White             & Golden &Shaved
&Crimped \\
3  &Green         &  Platinum Blonde   & Yellow &Knee        &Body
Wave\\
4 & Brown         &  Copper Red        & Greyish &Waist       &Tight
Curls\\
5 & Blue          &  Strawberry Blonde & White  &Mid-Back    &Kinked
\\
6 & Lt. Brown     &  Auburn            & Pink&Crew Cut&Loose Curls\\
7 & Lt. Green     &  Brown             & Red  &Shoulder    &Bun  \\
8 & Lt. Blue      &  Red               & olive & Collar & Unkempt\\
9 & Hazel         &  Grey       & Swarthy &Mid-Back   &Beard   \\
10&  Grey         &  Blonde     & Light brown  &Waist     &Straight
\\
11&  Grey         &  Dark Brown & Dark brown  &Floor     &Spikes   \\
12&  Gold         &  Black      & Black & ear-length & Other\\
\hline
&Vilani: $11 \pm 1$&  $12 \pm 1$   & $11 \pm 1$\\
&Zhodani: 2d6     &  $10 \pm 2$ & 9\\
&Darrian: 2d6     &  $2 \pm 1$ & $ 3 \pm 1$\\
&Solomani: 2d6-1  & 2d6 & 2d6+1\\
\end{tabular}
 
(for those who don't know TeX, each & means a tab, so there are
basically 5 columns)
 
So according to my table (and the Zhodani book), Zhodani have eyes
of any color, red, grey, blonde, dark brown or black (dark seems more
predominant, but yes, THERE ARE BLONDE ZHODANI AFAIK!) and olive
skin.
 

- -- 
Pierre-Louis Constantin, ift. a. 	"He whose name was writ in E-mail."
(: "I hate fanatics with a passion; all extremists should be shot." :)
	    How's my surfing? http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~constanp/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:58:15 CST
From: galliand@juno.com (Scott M Galliand)
Subject: Geonee in M0

As requested, the Geonee Confederation in Milieu 0.

Duuir		0928	A100155-C	Lo Va    614   M1V M8D
Inkhuug		1027	B686422-9	Lo         421   F3V
Lalii		1028	E300588-4	Ni Va     510   F1V M6D
Lagna		1029	B1108BB-E	Na         131   G3V
M8D
Duundam E.	1130	B110344-B	Lo          514   F3V
Vluuper Pim.	1131	C567333-6	Lo          710   F4V
M7D
Kiimda		1328	A100366-D	Lo Va     603   G0V
Muusha		1330	D443244-6	Lo Po     224   G2D
M6D
Asadug		1430	BA86A77-C	Hi          433   
F7VI M9D

World names are primarily Vilani.

Looks like Duuir or Kiimda would be the locations for ship's
construction.  Look at Lagna.  TL 14 and only a B starport?!?!?

BTW, Starport B, according to T4, CAN construct starships.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:13:20 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

Battlestar was a good kids show.  B5 is not a kids show.
Battlestar had one major redeming feature.  Jane Seymour.
Once they killed her off...


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  -- Politics should be limited in scope 
to war, protection of property, and the occasional precautionary 
beheading of a member of the ruling class."  -- P.J. O'Rourke 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:18:55 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Idiot/Savant <idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz>
Subject: Digest problems and the "Passenger Bug"

Digest Problems:
	I just received two copies of digest #960, and #961 contained
duplicates of several messages. What gives? Are the straight mailing list
subscribers also getting duplicates?

The "Passenger Bug"
	Along the same lines as Steven Bonneville's excelent analysis of
passanger demand... when going over the THUDD entries this morning, I
noticed that several of the designs relied on large numbers of passengers
for revenue. Worse, many relied on large numbers of _middle_ passengers.
While this makes for a great on-paper profit, checking the "real world"
shows that even 12 middle passengers is a bit optimistic unless you're
going with the TL gradient or have a decent ship's steward. Relying on
twenty, (or fourty, for the budgetliner) is a quick path to financial
oblivion - you're unlikely to get this many passengers on any but the
largest worlds, and in these cases you're probably competing with Tukera. 
Relying on high passengers isn't so bad, because you can almost always
fill the staterooms with _some_ sort of paying customer on almost all
worlds. Of course, Highs are more expenisve, both in space and in crew -
which I suppose is the reason why many designs decided to focus
exclusively on Middles.

- --
Idiot/Savant			idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz
Betray your friends; Crush your enemies; 
Control the world; Drink some coffee

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:12:51 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Ship Design

If anyone's interested in a *great* ship design with a full color
external view and detailed deck plans, check out the 3000 dton
cruiser at:

http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/farcru.htm

This thing been designed for TNE/BL and a T4 campaign.
Good job, Chris!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:09:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)

     "Milieu Zero" sounds great, but I've got a question:  Can anybody give me
a rough estimate of how long it will be until this shows up in stores?  I'm
unwilling to pay the extra s&h of ordering things direct, and it's kind of a
chore walking to my FLGS so I'd like to be relatively assured of them actually
having a copy when I eventually do go there.

     Looking forward to getting a copy for myself,

Trent Smith

P.S.  Another question-- this one actually related to the book: what does the
graphics layout look like?  Is it the same bland layout from the earlier
supplements with pages and pages of plain text occasionally broken up by some
full-page illos, or have the new professional layout staff started to make an
impact?  Of course I'll buy it no matter what it looks like, I'm just curious.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:28:36 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: What Do Zhodani look like?

John P. Raynor wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mike Lee wrote:
> 
> >
> >         The Zhodani were yet another branch of Humaniti that the Ancients
> > seeded on Zhodane about -300,000, relative to the current Imperial calendar,
> > circa 1112.  From a cultural standpoint, they promote psionics rather than
> > repress them, so there is a much higher incidence of finding active psions
> > amid the Zhodani population.  Being of the same genetic stock as the rest of
> > Humaniti, there is no significant physical differences between Zhodani and
> > Imperials.  Put an Imperial and a Zhodani in the same room and you couldn't
> > tell them apart.
> 
> Um...although it might be difficult to spot a Zhodani individual in a
> crowd of human Imperial citizens, Zhodani *are* moderately distinctive,
> and certain generalizations can be made about "what Zhodani look like."
> They tend to be tall and slender (because of the weaker gravity of their
> "homeworld"), they have dark complexions, and black hair.  Zhodani have
> slightly fewer teeth than Solomani (only 28, I believe), but their teeth
> are slightly larger.  There are also subtle biochemical differences,
> associated with the ability to digest the protein of their "homeworld."
> Please take this list of Zhodani traits with a grain of salt - I don't
> have a copy of the relevant C.T. "Alien Module" with me as I type, and my
> memory may be in error.

I've got the CT supplement and your memory nailed it. There are slight
variations in hair color but everything else you've stated is correct.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:16:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0: What's in there? (LONG)

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Trent Smith wrote:

>      "Milieu Zero" sounds great, but I've got a question:  Can anybody give me
> a rough estimate of how long it will be until this shows up in stores?  I'm
> unwilling to pay the extra s&h of ordering things direct, and it's kind of a
> chore walking to my FLGS so I'd like to be relatively assured of them actually
> having a copy when I eventually do go there.

They started shipping to distributors last Friday.  Should be in 
stores...whenever the distributors get them there. [G]

As for S&H costs, just a reminder to look into the changes on that 
front.  Check out IG's web page.  And subscribe to the newsletter, where 
they talk about all that stuff! :)


> P.S.  Another question-- this one actually related to the book: what does the
> graphics layout look like?  Is it the same bland layout from the earlier
> supplements with pages and pages of plain text occasionally broken up by some
> full-page illos, or have the new professional layout staff started to make an
> impact?  Of course I'll buy it no matter what it looks like, I'm just curious.

M0 was edited by Les Smith.  Additional editing/layout by Tony Lee.  
Illustration and design by Ashe Marler.

So, no, nothing has changed on that front.  The new crew starts on book 7 
and beyond.  Look for changes in future volumes.  Since CORE finished 
writing M0 the first week of November, this was all done under the old 
management (with the exception of Marc and Tim stopping the printing 
process to switch out the Core sector data from M0 to make sure it 
matched First Survey, since CORE had been told to go ahead and make the 
Core sector data on our own and FS would be changed to match..then that 
didn't happen, so it had to be fixed at great cost to IG).


M0's known errors:  

1)  AAB organizational chart compressed to 1 line, so it makes no sense 
    (and put in a sidebar, so it is highlighted, making it even worse).
2)  Vilani Confederaton org chart compressed to 2 lines, so it makes no 
    sense.
3)  Scout Cruiser deckplan was not included in the book.

Stu and I will shortly ask IG for permission to post the deckplan, and 
the original org charts, to their web site.  Although we had no control 
over the editing, layout, design, etc., we want to ensure that the 
information that we meant to be in the book is available.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:18:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mark Clark wrote:
>   Based on the illustrations in the Classic Traveller material, they're
> all tall, skinny, dark-haired, and wear turbans and cute little beards.
> Oh, and they look evil - real evil.
> 
>   I'd suggest the above is what most Imperials _think_ the Zho look like,
> based on entertainment programs - real Zho probably exhibit variations
> similar to current human norms.  I'll take a look in my Zho sourcebook and
> see if there is any description of the question in there.

There probably are short, stout, fair-skinned, fair-haired Zhodani, but
the Zhodani are all descended from a single small group of human beings
transplanted by the Ancients, so Zhodani are a whole probably *do* look
more alike than, say, Solomani, or the average product of the great
Imperial melting pot. Are there any Minor branches of Humaniti in the
Consulate?  If so, they might contribute to Zhodani diversity, but I'm
pretty sure just about all Zhodani are primarily descended from humans
from Zhdant. 

Diverse or not, however, everyone knows that Zhodani really *do* look
evil.  Yes, even the pudgy, pale, blond, blue-eyed Zhodani.  ;) 

                                                            - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:31:50 +1300
From: lynchblo@waikato.ac.nz (B Lynch-Blosse)
Subject: Starship lifespan?

Hi there,

Just a quick question (and a change from the current threads), What is the
standard operational life span of a Space ship?

Would it suffer greatly from rust, space dust and debris? An obvious answer
is _not to long in combat_, but given standard  overhalls/refitts and
maintiance, can you expect 80-100 years? Would there be any M0 ships
arround in MT times?


Thanks in advance,


 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Blair Lynch-Blosse, BSc (MSc student)         lynchblo@waikato.ac.nz
  Earth Sciences Department
  University of Waikato
  Private Bag 3105
  Hamilton                                            175.19'E 37.47'S
  NEW ZEALAND                "Trust No One. Deny Everything" - X-Files
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 22:17:48 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

On 02/17/97 at 04:27 PM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

> According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you have
> thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell does the
> astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what does he do
> while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the  crew with
> education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew member to
> calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do nothing for over
> a week. Am I missing something.

No, I don't think you're missing anything.  I do the best I can to make
sure that Pilots also have some astrogation skill and that Astrogators have
some piloting skill.  This way the Astrogator and Pilot can share the
duties of running the Bridge.  In fact, on a small ship one of the Bridge
crew is also probably the Command position.

While in Jump space if you don't have some technical skills, and can keep
busy maintaining the ship, you probably spend a lot of time reading,
playing games, watching videos, and sleeping.  A lot of learning might go
on out of sheer boredom. <G>


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 23:19:47 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: The color of J-space (and other curiosities)

Jeff Schmidt, jschmidt@netco.com had some really interesting questions:
>1. It seems generally accepted that a ship creates a N-space bubble around
>itself before and during a jump.  What, if anything, does such a thing look
>like (visually or through other sensing methods)?  Do the crew notice any
>differences when the bubble is formed?

I *really* like DGP's Starship Operator's Manual, so I've used my 
variation on how they describe what it looks like. From the outside, as 
the jump grid is charged, gridlines begin to glow blue around the ship, 
like the ship was enveloped in blue mesh, the brightness of the gridlines 
increasing until the entire ship is enveloped in a white-blue "haze".

From the inside looking out a viewport, the observer sees what appears to 
be blue glare.

EM sensors would read very energetic energy levels, exotic particles 
would be detected with the proper equipment.

>2. The actual act of entering J-space involves a massive burst of energy.
>What does an observer see when a ship enters J-space?  If a crewmember were
>looking out a viewport, what would they see?  Does the event affect the
>crew at all (sensations, etc.)?

As the ship enters jumpspace, the blue glowing spheroid that is the ship 
blinks out. A super-slow-mo replay would reveal that the spheroid 
actually appears to contract until it disappears in a point of blazing 
blue light. The event takes in the order of a few milliseconds.

On the inside, the star field with glare from the grid disappears, and is 
repaced by an undulating grey "nothingness", some crewmembers experience 
a brief "wrenching" sensation, and some even get nauseous.

>3. Once in J-space, what, if anything, do crew looking out viewports see?
>What sort of sensor readings does the ship get?

The crew just sees hazy greyness. Sensors cannot penetrate the shell that 
envelops the ship, so only detect the particle cloud that keeps an 
N-space shell within Jumpspace.

>4. If energy or matter is introduced to the N-space-J-space boundary, what
>happens?  Could this endanger the jumping ship?

Matter which passes through the boundry is irrevoccably lost. Energy that 
disrupts the field could have the effect of causing a misjump and/or ship 
destruction.

>5. If for some reason the N-space bubble drops while in J-space, what 
>happens?

The ship "drops" back into N-space. If the bubble's disappearance is 
unplanned, and not the one accounted for in pre-jump calculations, the 
ship misjumps.

Note that my interpretation of jumpspace is that normal matter *cannot* 
exist within jumpspace. The "shell" enveloping the ship contains a normal 
space bubble which can travel through the jumpspace medium because the 
"shell" simulates a particle that *can* exist in jumpspace. (The obvious 
candidate for simulation is the theoretical Tachyon, whose *lower* limit 
for speed is the speed of light)

Therefore, things chucked into jumpspace don't stay there, they end up 
somewhere in N-space. Hey -- this is a good thing for maintaining entropy 
in the universe, yes?

If the field surrounding the ship is disrupted non-uniformly, *parts* of 
it could precipitate into normal-space, hence the possibility of 
explosion and undesiribility of this occurance.

>6. When a ship re-enters N-space, what do observers (on and off the ship)
>see or feel?

Again, a "wrenching" sensation may be felt, and the grey "fog" dissolves.

>7. Are the different races' and manufacturers' jumpdrives sufficiently
>different to generate identifiable signatures for those who know what to
>look for?

In DGP's SOM, it is described that different races use different 
geometries in creating their Lanthanum Grid, with Imperials being the 
basic square mesh pattern, Droyne using a hexagon chicken-wire pattern, 
Aslan pretty swirly whirls and spirals, Zhodani use a triangular grid, 
Vargr, random every-which-way, etc.

So, an observer could watch the geometry of the tell-tale glow, and 
determine the Race, and even the manufacturer, if the manufacturer uses 
an identical grid pattern for its ships. ie. x distance between 
gridlines, at an angle of such-and-such to the ship's main axis...

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:35:02 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Bab5, Trek & S:AAB

Someone wrote:

> S:AAB is "mind candy", pure and simple.  Nothing wrong with that, and 
> a few of the eposides actually had some good acting in them...well 
> pretty good anyway.

   S:AAB was sci-fi along the lines of Battlestar Galactica--in fact
it would be fair to call S:AAB, "The Battlestar Galactica of the 1990s".

   Both shows were attempts to bring serialized mainstream sci-fi to
the small screen.  In both cases they would have been better off being
broadcast as a series of several "Movies of the Week" per year rather
than as an one hour weekly series.  The cost of both shows made it
impossible to justify their production, despite their considerable
(though not considerable enough) hardcore followings.

>Of course, S:AAB got cancelled and Homeboys in Outer Space got
>renewed... I think some execs have been spending too much time staring
>off into jumpspace :)

   With any luck, BG and S:AAB (and Space Rangers and several other
shows I could mention) have finally taught the rest of Hollywood what
the makers of Star Trek and Bab 5 already know: sci-fi TV series simply
don't work on mainstream, American network TV (CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox).  The
pressure to get rating *and* show a profit for the network is simply too
great.  

   As an aside, this same rating/profit pressure is also why it is
becoming increasingly difficult to find *anything* (sci-fi or otherwise)
watchable on the major American TV networks anymore.  My understanding
is that the situation in other parts of the world isn't much better
(Baywatch anyone?).

Regards,

Harold (who thanks God everyday for cable TV)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #962
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 18 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 963



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: RE:Back to the old Core Subsector
Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?
(Fwd) Re: Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)
[none]
Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
Re: What do Zhodhani Look Like ?
Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
Re: T4 Gripes
WWG/Taveller [humor/irony/sattire]
Re: Crew requirements - a question
ISBA?
Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:49:35 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In a message dated 2/16/97 8:28:53 PM, you wrote:

>Oh yeagh, if you engage the drive at 10 diameters, don't forget that
>gives a *large* chance for a misjump. It's even *possible* to engage
>the drive on the ground. But the odds are little better than suicide
>(anybody got them handy?)

	In the words of a great sumg..Um I mean Trader " Never tell me the odds!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:07:52 -0500 (EST)
From: TBSVT@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE:Back to the old Core Subsector

>In a message dated 2/17/97 3:53:04 AM, you wrote:

>Allen the GM writes


>Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what
>it was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
>        This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 23:53:39 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

On 02/17/97 at 11:18 PM,  "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu> said:

>   Based on the illustrations in the Classic Traveller material, they're
> all tall, skinny, dark-haired, and wear turbans and cute little beards.
> Oh, and they look evil - real evil.

Man those Zhodani chicks look hot in their cute little goatees!  ;->

Humans were transplanted about 300,000 years ago, right?  My
question is just how 'homo sapiens' were we that far back?

The Zhodani could be Neanderthals for all we know...and so could any of the
transplants.

Even if they are Cro-magnons, homo sapiens, or modern humans they certainly
didn't have the same diversity in their gene pools as the original stock. 
They certainly didn't evolve under the same
conditions or in the same way.  I rather suspect you aren't going to find
classic earth human racial types among the Zho or the Vilani. After 300,000
years the various transplants might not even be
cross-fertile.  

Sure, the number of fingers, toes, eyes and ears will be the same, but
skin, hair, and eye color will probably vary a lot.  Imagine green or blue
tinged skin, true violet or yellow eyes, or pink (and not dyed) hair.  Why
not?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:14:02 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Milieu 0:  What's in there? (LONG)

On 17 Feb 97 at 19:09, Trent Smith spewed:

>      "Milieu Zero" sounds great, but I've got a question:  Can
>      anybody give me
> a rough estimate of how long it will be until this shows up in
> stores?  I'm unwilling to pay the extra s&h of ordering things
> direct, and it's kind of a chore walking to my FLGS so I'd like to
> be relatively assured of them actually having a copy when I
> eventually do go there.

I have no idea when its going to show up at FLGS's, although it 
presumably is already on the way to distributors.

> P.S.  Another question-- this one actually related to the book: what
> does the graphics layout look like?  Is it the same bland layout
> from the earlier supplements with pages and pages of plain text
> occasionally broken up by some full-page illos, or have the new
> professional layout staff started to make an impact?  Of course I'll
> buy it no matter what it looks like, I'm just curious.

Well, the new professional layout person that IG is hiring/has hired 
(don't know which), didn't work on this one.  The book was worked on 
by the old IG staff.  As for layout, there are a few more sidebars 
(and more relevant ones) than previous efforts.  I'd say layout isn't a
radical departure from previous T4 offerings.  Full page, full page 
text.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:24:33 -0000
From: Kate McPherson <kate@litlefin.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe traveller-digest

kate@litlefin.demon.co.uk

Kate McPherson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:05:05 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long

> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 02:45:20 +0000
> From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
> 
> >       Lets take a look at my player charecter Fred Grandy, who had:
> > a UPP of 8A8ED7-5 at the end of the campaign.  Ssome of his better skill
> > levels included:
> >               Fast Talk-6
> >               Pilot-5
> >               Perception-4    Streetwise-4
> >               Jack-of-all-Trades-3
> >               3 more skills at 3
> >               11 more skills at 2
> >               15 more skills at 1
> >               and 4 skills at level 0
> > (these totals do not include his Psi skills as that is yet another
> > problem)
> >
> >       Let us suppose that Fred is trying an Impossible Fast Talk
> > attempt, a task involving Int & Fast Talk skill (or Edu & Fast Talk
> > if you try to baffle them with bull....) his target number is a 20 or
> > less.
> 
> First off, a level 6 in any skill is REALLY high in my book.  I've
> seen a level 7 on a character before, but I've never seen a level 8.
> Level 6, in my game and in most other's, would put your character at
> the epitome of his skill.  He as raised the skill in question to an
> art form, and there aren't that many others who have the same
> profeciency in the skill as he does.

	Yes and it was very rare for me to ever get a player with a
 skill level above 4 before T4, but the T4 skill advancement system 
is too generous.  This charecter left charecter generation with Fast 
Talk-3 and Pilot-4 but in one session he Fast Talked a Vargr into 
believing that Fred was going to kill and eat him (possibly not in that
 order) (the ref ruled that this was of staggering difficulty given 
that Fred also has to smell as if he were a sociopath) so he used an
 experience point to test Fast Talk & raised it to skill level 4.  Now 
if Fred were a MT charecter he would not be able to get another check
 in Fast Talk for monthes, but in T4 you can raise your levels without
 this limit.  So the very next month (playtime & realtime) Fred Fast
 Talked a mob guy into buying a stolen jail for use as a space habitat.
 (see the Captain was locked into the jail which was a 90 ton portable 
building & we did not have intrusion skill so we just stole the jail &
 flew it into the 125 ton hold of our Subsidized Merchant at 30mph 
(another staggering task & the source of the check giving him
Pilot-5)) & this earned Fred another check in Fast Talk.  So in less
 than 60 days he went from Fast Talk-3 to Fast Talk-5 - This would not
 happen in CT or MT or TNE.  Since it is easier to raise skills in T4 
each level is now worth less.  In the same time period one of the other
charecters in the party went from Astrogation-6 to Astrogation-9 or so.
> 
> Given this, I expect him to do well at Impossible tasks.  Your
> character has two level 4 skills, a 5, and a 6 with a couple of 3's
> thrown in.  This character would be a god in my campaign.  Since
> you've played him for a long time (intense adventuring, of course), I
> can accept his level of skill.

	No I have not played him for that lon I would say that Fred 
picked up more skills in 6 monthes of play & 1 year of game time than
 one of my previous charecters Sigrid (using  TNE & MT) did in 10 
monthes of play & 2 years of game time & she was the one who ran into
the ancients 2 or 3 times, discovered their secrets, crossed the Great
 Rift the hard way, got knighted, learned all 6 Psionic Powers,
 survived a 12dice shotgun blast to the heart, saved the Imperium
 & ended up as the head of Emporer Strephons (a close personal friend
 nudge, nudge, wink, wink) Guard ....

	In contrast all Fred ever did was run a merchant ship & engage
 in some Espionage albeit under strange circumstances.

	Yes and he would have been a god in any of my previous campaigns
 but in T4 it is too easy to advance in skill too fast.  I would suggest
 that after you go up a skill level you may not be allowed to try to 
raise it again for (90 x Skill Level days) at the very least (maybe 
180 x skill level days in a more realistic campaign. 
> 
> On top of his incredible skill in Fast Talk, the character also has
> an incredible Edu and Int score.

	Not really it is not that hard to roll a two 6's out of 12
 dice & T4 will let you make this into a 12 stat.  Then simply 
getting lucky in mustering out (6 terms & only 1 roll on the cash 
table) gave him +2 Int.  It was even easier to get an EDU of 13 all
 you do is start with an Edu of 7 average, go to college (+4 Edu) 
and get 1 +2 roll in Mustering out.  You also need to be aware that
 since T4's aging is less harsh than in previous versions of Traveller
 that you are likely to see charecters who are somewhat older. (Not
 that this is a bad thing but it is something to take into account).
  During these terms they have probably raised their charecteristics
 even more.
> 
> So let's see.  The character is incredibly skilled (level 6), highly
> educated (EDU 13), and very intelligent (INT 14).
> 
> This guy is definitely not an average joe when it comes to Fast
> talking, and he'd better kick ass at this because it doesn't get any
> better than this.

	But under T4 charecters do get better than this & too fast.
  I probably could have had him up to Fast Talk-8 & Pilot 6 within 
another 6 monthes of play & this rate of advancement is not realistic.
> 
> Looking  at how he would do with my system... 
> You said it was an Impossible task at Fast Talk. 
> His target number would be 19 using either his EDU or INT--pretty
> good.
> 
> Referring to the chance success charts I put on my reply to William's
> message...
> 
> Fred has a 64.98% chance of success.
> 
> Hey, I can see that with this character, and there is still room for
> failure (a 19.62% chance of SF) at this Impossible task.
> 
> I guess I don't see the problem you are having with the system.

	The rules say that even for the most talented (I read this
 as charecteristic F (15) and highest skilled (I read this as skill 
level 12 ) charecter in the universe imposible tasks should not be
 a sure thing.  I interpret this to mean that the even this charecter
 should have a less than 50% chance of success.  This is probably why
 our opinions of what the success chances should be differs If we 
use double skill and half attribute we get a target number of 32 or
less ((2 x 12) + (0.5 x 15)).
This means that the task needs to be rolled on about 10 dice for him
 to have a less than 50% chance of success.

	In T4 the odds of rolling a critical failure go up by about
 50 % each time you ad 1 die to the difficulty of the task & I agree
 that this is a good system.  What I am saying is that for Impossible
Tasks to really be  nearlyImpossible they need to be rolled on about
 7 dice & this gives a chance of critical failure of over 40% & this
 seems too high to me.  Maybe this is a realistic set of odds but it
seems high.

	I can tell you that in T4 our party experienced about 4 times
 the number of Critical Failures as similar parties did under earlier
 forms of Traveller AND at the same time had a much better chance of 
success at much harder tasks (barring Crit Fail's) than under previous
 editions of Traveller.  Fred could expect success at 7 dice Fast Talk
 tasks & I am pretty sure that I probably thwarted the refs plans (Hi, 
Will.)  sometimes by doing so well.

	 I would suggest that If you want to use a variant of the T4
 system that perhaps we should need 3 6's for critical failure (I'll
 ignore the religius implications of this & hope everyone else does
 the same.) 
> 
> Kenneth.

	I think your system is better than the standard system & goes a
 good way towards correcting the T4 task system, but it does not go far
 enough.  T4 can be made to work adequately & it has some semi neat
 gimmicks but I do not intend to bother, for my purposes a modified MT
 is much better.

	Peter

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 05:15:04 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: What's the Frequency, Kenneth?

Greetings All:

There's been a few hints dropped...so here's the question:

For Mileu Zero/First Survey, does Sylea get moved from the subsector 
published in MMT/T4 to the "old canon" subsector (and sector) of "Classic 
Traveller"? Or does it stay where it is in MMT/T4?

And if it **does get moved**, is there any sort of explanation given? 
Some folks had hinted that this would be the basis of an adventure (this 
was a few months ago)...

Thanks muchly.



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:17:00 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: What do Zhodhani Look Like ?

> From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?
> 
> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mark Clark wrote:
> >   Based on the illustrations in the Classic Traveller material,     > > they're all tall, skinny, dark-haired, and wear turbans and cute > > little beards.
> > Oh, and they look evil - real evil.
> >
> >   I'd suggest the above is what most Imperials _think_ the Zho look > > like, based on entertainment programs - real Zho probably exhibit   > > variations similar to current human norms.  I'll take a look in my  > > Zho sourcebook and see if there is any description of the question  > > in there.
> 
> There probably are short, stout, fair-skinned, fair-haired Zhodani,   > but the Zhodani are all descended from a single small group of human  > beings transplanted by the Ancients, so Zhodani are a whole probably > *do* look more alike than, say, Solomani, or the average product of > the great Imperial melting pot. Are there any Minor branches of > Humaniti in the Consulate? 

	Yes, see below.

> If so, they might contribute to Zhodani diversity, but I'm pretty sure > just about all Zhodani are primarily descended from humans from > Zhdant.
> 
> Diverse or not, however, everyone knows that Zhodani really *do* look
> evil.  Yes, even the pudgy, pale, blond, blue-eyed Zhodani.  ;)
> 
>                                                     - J. Raynor

	Zhodhani space includes a number of what used to be Imperial worlds in
the Spinward Marches.  In The Spinward Marches Campaign (by Marc Miller)
on page 14 there is a map of the Imperium at the eve of the First
Frontier War in 589 which clearly shows that Imperium controlled many of
the world in the Cronar (A), Jewell (B), and Querion (E) Subsectors
which are conquered by the Zhodani in the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Frontier Wars. 
It could be argued that these worlds were origionally Zhodhani &
therefore had Zhodani population but the history of the Spinward Marches
settlement implies that these world were Imperial.  We do not know the
populations of these planets at that time yet but by 1105 these formerly
Imperial Zhodani planets have a population in the billions (some of whom
are presumably full blooded Zhodhani whose families settled here after
their conquest, er, um, liberation) but many more of whom must be
Solomani, Vilani, other human minor races, & mixtures thereof.
	
	Therefore the Zhodhani Consulate has access to a pool of hundreds of
millions of people who will not scan genetically as Zhodhani who will
make good spies.  At the Tech Levels common in the Imperium it is childs
play to do genetic scans.  One of the assumptions I have always made is
that Imperial Military (&some civilian) facilities regualarly scan their
visitors (note that this scan will not only check to see if you match
your paperwork but if you are what race you are) & if a Zhodhani is
detected he or she is in trouble unless they can produce very, very good
documentation of their identity. I do not think that the Imperium lets
in very many Zhodhani immigrants (although this might be a good
background for a Soc 2 charecter).  The descendants of former Imperials
however can waltz right through this sort of test & pass unnoticed in a
crowd.  Moreover we know that these worlds were culturally absorbed into
the Consulate because none of them are listed as unabsorbed worlds (the
Zhodani equivilant of Amber Xones, the worlds that do not follow
Zhodhani culture).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:46:10 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long

> 	Yes and it was very rare for me to ever get a player with a
>  skill level above 4 before T4, but the T4 skill advancement system 
> is too generous. 

Ahh, that explains it.  I think the xp system is broken too.  
Traveller has never had a good eperience system in any version, but I 
believe that MT's was the best.

This has been a topic I've been thinking about.  Pretty soon, I'll 
get around to doing some work on it.

 
> 	Yes and he would have been a god in any of my previous campaigns
>  but in T4 it is too easy to advance in skill too fast.  I would suggest
>  that after you go up a skill level you may not be allowed to try to 
> raise it again for (90 x Skill Level days) at the very least (maybe 
> 180 x skill level days in a more realistic campaign.

That's an idea worth considering.  I'm also playing with the level 
limits that used to be imposed in CT and MT.  I know that T4 says 
that there are no level limits, but what I have in mind is to use the 
limit as a gauge for making it harder to increase the number of 
skills you have.

For instance, a character has an EDU 7 and INT 7.  In both CT and MT, 
this character could never learn more than 14 levels of skills, or 
put another way, all of his skill levels could not add up to more 
than 14.

What I'm thinking about doing in my game is to use this level as a 
guide.  As long as the total skill levels this character has stays 
below 14, normal (or whatever I come up with) xp rules will apply.

When the character's total skill levels are between 15 and 28, then 
it will cost twice the amount of xps to go up a level.  At skill 
levels of 29+, if he ever gets there, the cost will be three times.

As you can see, this thought is not totally fleshed out yet, but that 
is where my thinking lies right now.

 
> 	Not really it is not that hard to roll a two 6's out of 12
>  dice & T4 will let you make this into a 12 stat. 

Again, this is where our play styles differ.  I give each of my 
players one chance to roll an attribute on 2 dice.  That's it--just 
one roll, and they have to live with the result.  If they want or 
need to improve a stat, then they are going to have to forego a skill 
level and try for a stat increase on the appropriate table (I let my 
players choose the table to roll on, but they have to roll--not pick 
what they want from the table).

Thus, some of the characters in our group are quite weak in some 
areas.  One has a STR of 2!  But, we have turned that into a neat 
role playing situation.


> 	The rules say that even for the most talented (I read this
>  as charecteristic F (15) and highest skilled (I read this as skill 
> level 12 ) charecter in the universe imposible tasks should not be
>  a sure thing.  I interpret this to mean that the even this charecter
>  should have a less than 50% chance of success.  This is probably why
>  our opinions of what the success chances should be differs If we 
> use double skill and half attribute we get a target number of 32 or
> less ((2 x 12) + (0.5 x 15)).

In my game, skills would never reach level 12 because the character 
would be dead by that time.  As I said to you before, I have never 
seen a level 8 skill in my games, and only one level 7.

I think the xp system is broken, but from what I've gathered about 
T4, the skill levels have about the same value as they did in MT and 
CT.  This level 12 stuff is TNE thinking.

How do I back that up?  Well, all the things about T4 are basically 
the CT rules with a few tweaks here and there--not the TNE rules.  
And MT was just another tweaking of the CT rules.  I think that CT 
and MT are fairly compatible with T4 (and I sometimes make TNE stuff 
compatible too, but it takes more work).

For an example of this, look at the description of the Medical skill. 
 It states that a character is considered a doctor at level 3--just 
like in CT, just like in MT.

If medical could reach level 12, then a doctor would be more like 
level 5, or 7, or maybe even higher.

No, I think that the value of the T4 skill levels are the same as 
they were in CT and MT.  

But, you are right, too.  The xp system is broken and doesn't reflect 
this relationship.  That's why I'm going to fix it in my game.

.  What I am saying is that for Impossible
> Tasks to really be  nearlyImpossible they need to be rolled on about
>  7 dice & this gives a chance of critical failure of over 40% & this
>  seems too high to me.  Maybe this is a realistic set of odds but it
> seems high.

If you skills don't get too high, to level 12 and such, the 
percentages I listed are pretty good for Impossible skills.  You've 
got to remember that most people will have, say, an attribute of 7 
and a skill level of 2.

This give you, under my system, a target number of 8.  And on the 5 
dice system I use for Impossible tasks, this is only a 0.72% chance 
of success with a 19.62% chance of SF.  I'd say that's quite 
impossible, and that's where I've been coming from promoting this 
system.


> 
> 	 I would suggest that If you want to use a variant of the T4
>  system that perhaps we should need 3 6's for critical failure (I'll
>  ignore the religius implications of this & hope everyone else does
>  the same.) 

Hey, I like the religous implications.  It suits a critial failure.  
And, this might not be a bad thing in your campaign.  In my game, SF 
with the two 6's is below 10% for all difficulties of Formidable and 
below.  Staggering is just over that at 13%, and Impossible carries a 
pretty hefty chance of SF at almost 20%--but that's how it should be 
in my book.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:55:46 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes

>You said it was an Impossible task at Fast Talk.
[snip]
>Fred has a 64.98% chance of success.
>
>Hey, I can see that with this character, and there is still room for
>failure (a 19.62% chance of SF) at this Impossible task.
>I guess I don't see the problem you are having with the system.

That 64.98% chance of success on an impossible task is the problem.
It is the Whole problem, and nothing but the problem.

Also, Under MT as written I frequently encountered characters that could
not make ANY impossible tasks, and some that could not make them even with
extra time....

Under T4: all the PC's, using Pick table, roll on table chosen method for
skills had at least 3 skills at level 4, and all but 2 of the 9 PC's played
(all generated legit except the skipper, who had too many terms, and
highest skill was a 4, BTW) had a skill at level 6+ at start of campaign.
The Doc had Medical 4 after Med School (2 from Undergrad, 2 from Med
School, 2 more from his 2.75 terms of service, for start of 6). 3 of the
characters had Level 8 in one skill.


Under TNE: There was a commonly used house rule (at least in Alaska) of
maximum TNE skill level 10, and cannonically attribute limits at 15 (very
rare) for 25 base asset, and x1/4 for Impossible= 6= 30% chance of Success
maximum, with a 40% chance of CritFail check resulting, with a 40% x 5% =
2% chance of actual Crit Fail, and no chance of Crit Success, using all the
bells and whistles of the task system, as in Ref's Screen and Mk1Md1 TNE

Under MT: DM+3 attribute maximum, DM+8 maximum ever, crit-fail is fail by
more than 1 point. Impossible needs a 19 or 20, which gives an absolute
maximum chance of 3/36, or ~10%, No Except. Success (would need a 21, which
means a 12 roll with a +9 DM, illegal), and the ridiculously high chance of
Except-fail of 30/36, or ~83%. HOWEVER, not all Exceptional Fails are
really "Critical Failures"; as MT then checks for mishap. Also, MT has a
flat 2.7% chance of failure no matter how good you are.

MT can be cured by changing exceptional-fail to being natural rolls on the
following table
	Diff		Easy	Avg	Dif	Form	Imp
	CF on NR	no	2	2-3	2-4	2-5
	% CF		0	2.7	8.2	16.7	27.7

T4 is problematic in that chances of success and failure are NOT intuitive,
NOT easy to calculate, and NOT reasonably low at a level that is
effectively one higher that the higest in previous rules-systems.

If a modified MT task system like what I posted were to make it into T4
Deluxe as an option, I'd be much more apt to give T4 another try, or at
least reccomend it. I realize that some GM's don't want their players
having a clue about how good their chances are, but the GM should at least
have a clue. Under T4, I didn't. I was the GM. This meant that the Skill 8
astrogator with Int and Edu 15 was NEVER FAILING TO SUCCEED. Fortunately,
none of the players chose to use OFFENSIVE skills (Weapons and brawling
skills) as the primary focus of their characters. They all chose to focus
on the job they wanted ship-board.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:10:39 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: WWG/Taveller [humor/irony/sattire]

For those enamoured of WWG's task system, here is yet another task system
option, which IG is welcome to use as far as I'm concered, but they might
have trouble with WWG... ;-)

Character Generation: Use T4 for now...

Dice: all d10's
Diff Numbers: 	Easy	Avg	Dif	Form	Task	Imp
		4+	5+	6+	7+	8+	9+

On a task, roll dice equal to 1/2 asset (skill + attribute) and each
individual die that comes up equal to or greater than the target number is
a "success" (+1 S). Each individual die that rolls a 1 removes one success
(-1 S). failures (die was between 1 and target number) count nothing (+0 S)

Success total:	<0 S	Botch
		0 S	Failure
		1 S	Marginal
		2-4 S	Average
		>4 S	Exceptional Success.

For doing this in a shadowrun method, use D6's, and each 6 counts as
6+another die; use diff numbers below:
	Easy	Avg	Dif	Form	Task	Imp
	3	4	5	6	8	9

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:20:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

In mail you write:

> According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
> have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
> does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
> does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the 
> crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
> member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
> nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.

You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
navigators. Real-space *and* jump-space both require some moderately
complex calculations to avoid wasting fuel or running into things.

Even with thrusters, you still have to worry about *orbits* (though
mostly the orbits of *other* bodies. You can't just aim the ship at a
destination and go. You need to know where the planet/station/whatever
*will be* when you get there. And what your trajectory looks like as
modified by gravity so you can check it against other ships and bodies
in the area.

The astrogator is *very* busy from the time you come out of jump until
you are settled on a course to the jump station/high port/planet. First
he has to figure out both where and when the ship is, as well as it's
current velocity vector. Then he needs to find out if they are about to
hit anything, and plot a safe course towards the area covere by local
traffic control. Then he and the pilot need to talk to traffic
controlabout other ships and what sort of course changes traffic
control may want.

After they have the approach course set, things are *mostly* in the
pilot's hands, but the astrogator has to be available for both course
changes and to be sure that traffic control hasn't goofed and given
them a course that collides with something, or goes thru a restricted
area (like a naval weapons range!!).

When getting ready to leave a planet, the astrogator has it a lot
easier as he doesn't need to determine *where/when* the ship is. He'll
still need to have updated his "charts" with the latest info for this
system and any others they plan to visit. And he's still responsible
for making sure they don't run into anything or go someplace they
shouldn't. 

After takeoff, he gets to continually update the jump calcs based on
where it looks like they'll hit the 100 diameter limit, and (if he's
smart) also figure an "emergency" solution based on jumping ASAP. 

Once the ship enters jump, he and the pilot can review the drive logs
to see if the jump went ok, and then go over any problems they had.
Then they can take their time reviewing the data on the destination
system. 

But they'll both be at their workstations sweating, when the earliest
likely jump exit time comes around. And they'll stay there until they
actually *do* exit jump. Then it's back to the bit I described above.

It's *not* "a few hours of work".


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:26:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: ISBA?

>I don't want them moved of the list. Although you use to much of your
>time reading the ISBA posts, it seems to me that there should be no
>problem jumping over the posts as most of them have clear
>roleplaying given subjects.  "******* wuth new press release." and
>so forth.
>
>Tommy Grav

Not possible with digests... They are in the MIDDLE of the digest. Theyre
have been points where over half a digest has been ISBA stuff... and I
can't delete/skip individual messages within a digest; I feel that there
should be a separate list for ISBA and similar. I also feel that Ken *and
I* both need to be more on track at times...

Please understand, also, that some of us _do_not_ (care/like/desire) the M0
setting.  I run ONLY CT/MT era... I like the tone and feel, don't want to
have to relearn the background, and soon, as additional milleaux come out,
we will not just the CT/MT, TNE, and M0 types here, but also M200(aslan
wars), M600 (civil war), M800 (solomani rim war) backgrounds.

I feel/believe/suggest that the milleaux should each have separate lists;
leave TML for system mechanics and gearhead tinkering. I'd quit TML if
X-boat was working (and aimed at the CT/MT rules and/or settings, even if
it also covered TNE), and I am sure that I'd not be the only one. And As
for X-Boat, if it is working, my friends can't get on it, and I haven't
tried lately.

William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:42:28 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: What do Zhodanis Look Like?

At 23:53 17/02/1997 -0600, you wrote:
>On 02/17/97 at 11:18 PM,  "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu> said:
>
>>   Based on the illustrations in the Classic Traveller material, they're
>> all tall, skinny, dark-haired, and wear turbans and cute little beards.
>> Oh, and they look evil - real evil.

AM 4 says its not uncommon to find Zhodani 2m+ tall. I think they might
just stand out in a crowd :*).

>Man those Zhodani chicks look hot in their cute little goatees!  ;->
>
>Humans were transplanted about 300,000 years ago, right?  My
>question is just how 'homo sapiens' were we that far back?

300,000 BP is just about right on the boundary between Homo Erectus and
Homo Sapien, so the answer is not very. Homo Sapien did not become "pure"
until about 250,000 BP.

>The Zhodani could be Neanderthals for all we know...and so could any of the
>transplants.

Homo Sapien Neandertahalis were between 120,000 BP and 50,000 BP

>Even if they are Cro-magnons, homo sapiens, or modern humans they certainly
>didn't have the same diversity in their gene pools as the original stock. 
>They certainly didn't evolve under the same
>conditions or in the same way.  I rather suspect you aren't going to find
>classic earth human racial types among the Zho or the Vilani. After 300,000
>years the various transplants might not even be
>cross-fertile.  

Zhodani (and Vilani, Genoee, Surreat et al) are probably not Homo Sapien
at all. In AM 4 the genus of Zhodani is given as Homo Zhdotlas, with two
genii predating (Homo Zhdatl and Homo Vlastebr).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #963
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 18 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 964



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Geonee in M0.  Apology, esp. to Marc and Imperium Games.
NAS and psionics
Starships Errata
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
Re-Assessment
The Ancient fascination
Frank Chadwick
Re: Starship lifespan?
Jump Retrofits
Re: What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
Re: Why the Universe Changed (core sector)
Re: Geonee in M0. Apology, esp. to Marc and Imperium Games.
Re:  QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices
Re: Milieu 0
Re: Jump Retrofits
RoM / Second Imperium
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: Crew requirements - a question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:55:14 EST
From: galliand@juno.com
Subject: Re: Geonee in M0.  Apology, esp. to Marc and Imperium Games.

I want to apologize to everyone about my last post.  Carlos Alos-Ferrer,
as everyone knows, has been creating a sourcebook for the Geonee.  He
asked me to send him the M0 stats for the Geonee worlds.  Unfortunately,
I did a reply, forgetting that the original messge to which I was
replying was from TML, when I meant to send private.  Thus, I posted the
stuff here, which was a big mistake.

To Marc and Imperium, I apologize for posting that stuff.  I know its
copyrighted.  The posting was a stupid error on my part.  I only did it
in an effort to assist Carlos since he doesn't expect to get First Survey
for a while.  I promise, it won't happen again consciously.

Scott Galliand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:54:03 -0600
From: Hugh Johnson <ratling@csrlink.net>
Subject: NAS and psionics

Hello,
	This has probably been already discussed so I'm sorry if this is redundant
but I was wondering if a neural activity sensor could be blocked by a a
psionic shield helmet or by the psionic talent: shield?  I'm working on a
research facility that has NAS as part of its security net and wasn't sure
what the effects of the above would be.  Would the NAS register as blank as
described under life detection or would it detect the neural energy going
into the shield?

	Thanks for any words of wisdom.  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:02:19 -0600
From: Hugh Johnson <ratling@csrlink.net>
Subject: Starships Errata

Hello Again!
	It's been a long night (no pun intended).  Could someone tell me if anyone
has compiled a complete list of errata for SSDS?  I meant to attach this to
my previous post, sorry.  Too many thoughts, not enough sleep.

	Thanks in advance.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 05:00:54 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:46:10 +0000
> From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long
> 
> >       Yes and it was very rare for me to ever get a player with a
> >  skill level above 4 before T4, but the T4 skill advancement system
> > is too generous.
> 
> Ahh, that explains it.  I think the xp system is broken too.
> Traveller has never had a good eperience system in any version, but I
> believe that MT's was the best.
>
> >       Yes and he would have been a god in any of my previous > > campaigns
> >  but in T4 it is too easy to advance in skill too fast.  I would > > suggest
> >  that after you go up a skill level you may not be allowed to try to
> > raise it again for (90 x Skill Level days) at the very least (maybe
> > 180 x skill level days in a more realistic campaign.
> 
> That's an idea worth considering.  I'm also playing with the level
> limits that used to be imposed in CT and MT.  I know that T4 says
> that there are no level limits, 

(Snip)

(now we're talking about Impossible tasks)

> >       The rules say that even for the most talented (I read this
> >  as charecteristic F (15) and highest skilled (I read this as skill
> > level 12 ) charecter in the universe imposible tasks should not be
> >  a sure thing.  I interpret this to mean that the even this         > > charecter
> >  should have a less than 50% chance of success.  This is probably   > > why
> >  our opinions of what the success chances should be differs If we
> > use double skill and half attribute we get a target number of 32 or
> > less ((2 x 12) + (0.5 x 15)).
> 
> In my game, skills would never reach level 12 because the character
> would be dead by that time.  As I said to you before, I have never
> seen a level 8 skill in my games, and only one level 7.

	I think that you will see them a lot sooner than you expect if you do
not do something about the T4 charecter generation & experience gain
system.

	We know that the maximum limit on skills is actually 13 because when
testing for skill advancement a roll of 6 will gain you a second die to
roll (T4 rules pg 159).  You need to equal or exceed the current level
to rise in level.  Since the roll of 2d6 cannot exceed 12, you can never
raise a skill above level 13.
> 
> I think the xp system is broken, but from what I've gathered about
> T4, the skill levels have about the same value as they did in MT and
> CT.  This level 12 stuff is TNE thinking.

	The description of an Impossible Task (which I think should be renamed
Nearly Imposible)  says (T4 Rules pg 49)  "Even the fittest (Stat F),
best trained charecters in the _galaxy_ (emphasis added) have trouble
accomplishing deeds of this magnitude."  I think that the rules of the
Task System _need_ to reflect this description.  It does not matter if
you or I ever see a charecter or NPC with Skill Level 13 in
our campaigns, it is a big galaxy & they are out there somewhere.
 
> How do I back that up?  Well, all the things about T4 are basically
> the CT rules with a few tweaks here and there--not the TNE rules.
> And MT was just another tweaking of the CT rules.  I think that CT
> and MT are fairly compatible with T4 (and I sometimes make TNE stuff
> compatible too, but it takes more work).
> 
> For an example of this, look at the description of the Medical skill.
>  It states that a character is considered a doctor at level 3--just
> like in CT, just like in MT.
> If medical could reach level 12, then a doctor would be more like
> level 5, or 7, or maybe even higher.
> No, I think that the value of the T4 skill levels are the same as
> they were in CT and MT.

	The system will let you go up to level 13 it is just that they _meant_ 
each level to be worth the same.  But since T4 allows more skills during
charecter generation & makes each skill level much easier to gain
through experience, each level is worth less.

	If charecters have more skill levels, each one will be worth less.  It
is sort of like the classic (monetarist) definition of inflation - "More
dollars chasing the same ammount of goods." (Milton Freidman-
paraphrased).  Since in T4 the average charecter _will_ have more skills
each one IS worth less, even though that does not seem to have been
their intention, which was probably something more like "Hey how can we
make charecter generation easier & provide better charecters, hey how
about 1 skill per year ?"

> But, you are right, too.  The xp system is broken and doesn't reflect
> this relationship.  That's why I'm going to fix it in my game.
> 
>    What I am saying is that for Impossible                            
> > Tasks to really be  nearly Impossible they need to be rolled on     > > about
> >  7 dice & this gives a chance of critical failure of over 40% & this
> >  seems too high to me.  Maybe this is a realistic set of odds but it
> > seems high.
> 
> If you skills don't get too high, to level 12 and such, the
> percentages I listed are pretty good for Impossible skills.  You've
> got to remember that most people will have, say, an attribute of 7
> and a skill level of 2.
> 
> This give you, under my system, a target number of 8.  And on the 5
> dice system I use for Impossible tasks, this is only a 0.72% chance
> of success with a 19.62% chance of SF.  I'd say that's quite
> impossible, and that's where I've been coming from promoting this
> system.

	Yes but the system does not _say_ that Impossible Tasks are nearly
impossible for the average Joe or Eneri on the street, it says that
Impossible tasks are challenging even for the best in the galaxy.  Mybe
that is why they are called Impossible, because they are impossible to
most charecters.
> >
> >        I would suggest that If you want to use a variant of the T4
> >  system that perhaps we should need 3 6's for critical failure (I'll
> >  ignore the religius implications of this & hope everyone else does
> >  the same.)
> 
> Hey, I like the religous implications.  It suits a critial failure.
> And, this might not be a bad thing in your campaign.  In my game, SF
> with the two 6's is below 10% for all difficulties of Formidable and
> below.  Staggering is just over that at 13%, and Impossible carries a
> pretty hefty chance of SF at almost 20%--but that's how it should be
> in my book.
> 
> Kenneth.

> From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
> Subject: Re: T4 Gripes
> 
> >You said it was an Impossible task at Fast Talk.
> [snip]
> >Fred has a 64.98% chance of success.
> >
> >Hey, I can see that with this character, and there is still room for
> >failure (a 19.62% chance of SF) at this Impossible task.
> >I guess I don't see the problem you are having with the system.
> 
> That 64.98% chance of success on an impossible task is the problem.
> It is the Whole problem, and nothing but the problem.

	Yes it is the problem, there is too high a chance of success at very
difficult tasks in T4 & you cannot fix this except by raising the number
of dice so drastically that you get critical failure all the time.  In
addition some people are apparently incapable of adding up 7 dice
rapidly & this can slow down play.

>  I realize that some GM's don't want their players
> having a clue about how good their chances are, but the GM should at > least
> have a clue. Under T4, I didn't. I was the GM. This meant that the    > Skill 8 
> astrogator with Int and Edu 15 was NEVER FAILING TO SUCCEED. 

	I happen to think that the players should have a sense of their chances
of success.  In real life I know that my chances of pulling a bootlegger
reverse in my station wagon with my Dex=4 & my GroundCar=1 are basically
nonexistant & that is why I do not try. Real people should usually have
a sense of how hard the task they are attempting is.  In addition this
is better for the game because they won't have charecters dying all the
time because they act like stupid cowboys.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:25:07 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes (more) long

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> >       Lets take a look at my player charecter Fred Grandy, who had:
> > a UPP of 8A8ED7-5 at the end of the campaign.  Ssome of his better skill
> > levels included:
> >               Fast Talk-6
> >               Pilot-5
> >               Perception-4    Streetwise-4
> >               Jack-of-all-Trades-3
> >               3 more skills at 3
> >               11 more skills at 2
> >               15 more skills at 1
> >               and 4 skills at level 0
>
> I guess I don't see the problem you are having with the system.


I can! The generation system is more prone to produce high personal
statistics (10+), and I will admit that though fast talk-6 is high,
primary skill(s) of 3 - 4 are not uncommon.
I am not a huge number crunching stats minded ref, but I do know that
the average roll of 4D6 is 14 (or close to).

If the primary asset is 14, and the average roll is 14, the players are
going to give it a go because it is not that hard.

If the stat is 7, and the skill is one, the players are not going to
worry to much, 8 is not to far from 14.... 

Impossible should mean just that, impossible.

The task system makes it too easy for the players (and npc's) to gain a
success unless you make the tasks rediculously hard.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:02:56 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: Re-Assessment

Well, talking is good for the soul, or so they say.  I guess the same can be
applied to typing in this context. :)  Anyway, I typed out some of my
thoughts and difficulties to a few friends the other day and I have decided
not to leave Traveller, but to stick it out for a while.  I am unsure what
my role will be regarding THUDDD and ISBA, but I am going to try to get the
mailing list going at the very least.

Ethan, if you want to run THUDDD, let me know and Tim, get with me about the
ISBA list.

Paul {tiger}
tiger@goldinc.com
http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:07:36 -0800
From: GREI5001@uni-trier.de
Subject: The Ancient fascination

Hi guys, here is a first draft of the first entries of my ancients site.
Any suggestions, additions, new entries or other comments are
appreciated.

>                              Ancient Sites
>=20
>                         throughout known space:
>=20
>       ATTENTION: THIS INFORMATION IS INTENDED FOR REFEREES ONLY!
>                            PLAYERS KEEP OUT!
>=20
> It is supposed to be a handy reference for referees who are looking
> for additional information about the Ancients and inspiration for
> their own creations.
>=20
> It details those locations, where the Ancients left visible traces for
> modern Imperial people to discover and marvel over. The Ancient period
> dates back to -500 000 Imperial, when they burst into space and
> expanded to hundreds of worlds, creating colonies, bases and
> settlements when there was no other spacefaring race around, up to
> -300 000 when they apparently destroyed themselves in a 2000 year long
> war. The Ancients are also those responsible for transplanting
> humaniti to the stars. The total number of confirmed Ancients sites
> within the imperium is in excess of 200. Their home remains unknown.
>=20
> The Sites are sorted by location. They have the following
> classifications:
>=20
> * Attraction: Site is widely known and a Tourist attraction.
> * Known: Known to part of the public, mostly restricted access.
> * Secret: A well kept secret by Imperial authorities, not general
> knowledge.
> * Unknown: Neither Imperial authorities nor public have discovered
> this site yet.
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> Spinward Marches:
>=20
>      Regina Subsector:
>=20
>           Regina (UNKNOWN):
>=20
>                The Regina System contains a small Pocket Universe,
>                created by Grandfather. It contains the small star
>                Braycossa, created by Grandfather from a Gas Giant
>                taken from real-space Regina, and three other worlds:
>                Elkyulm, Kraldosk, Prissuls, all on the same orbit in
>                equidistant positions. They are connected by a
>                "Stairway to the Stars" a chain of 100km "pearls" which
>                contain teleportals connecting each to the next pearl
>                or planet in line, thus enabling one to "walk" from
>                planet to planet.
>=20
>                Elkyulm: This planet is inhabited by mechanical robots
>                programmed to observe and study the astrophysical life
>                of Braycossa.
>=20
>                Kraldosk: Inhabited by biological robots, which
>                strongly resemble humans, and are grown in an automated
>                vats. The only distinction is that they are all missing
>                the little left finger. A human servant of Grandfather
>                from the Ancient war, Na Kradolsk, was placed in charge
>                of this world, is still alive on this world, being able
>                to prolong his life with the vat.
>=20
>                Prissuls: Small, five-legged life forms sensitive to
>                the light of Braycossa inhabit this world. Originally
>                herbivores, they have changed with the wavelenths to
>                become omni- and carnivorous.
>=20
>                Ways to site: Recently, human robots of Kradolsk have
>                created a portal to real space and established a secret
>                restearch outpost decoyed as a small store in Regni, a
>                major city on Regina.
>=20
>                Grandfather left the system in -290.000 and hasn=B4t
>                returned since.
>=20
>                Source: Challenge Magazine #27, "Grandfather=B4s Worlds"
>                Marc W. Miller
>=20
>      Rhylanor Subsector:
>=20
>           Fulacin (UNKNOWN):
>=20
>                Somewhere in the wilderness of Fulacin, underneath a
>                building of the now defunct Octagon society, long dark
>                catacombs lead down to the site. The walls of the
>                corridors and rooms are of shining silvery metal. The
>                whole complex is still in working condition. In one
>                room, 36 Droyne of the Warrior-caste are preserved in
>                stasis. Fidlling with any controls in the room releases
>                them. Another room is occupied by a large globe,
>                halfway inserted into the floor. It is an accurate
>                model of Fulacin (1:600 000), complete with
>                cloud-formations and oceans. It is fully up to date,
>                the clouds move, etc.
>=20
>                This site is the main focus of the Classic Traveller
>                Adventure: "Twilight=B4s Peak" by Marc W. Miller. It
>                contains more detailed descriptions of the site.
>=20
>           Rhylanor (Attraction/????)
>=20
>                The site on Rhylanor is carved into the face of Mount
>                Zithar. Tours take place regularly. On the inside,
>                metal pipes and tubes run off in every direction, with
>                no apparent function. In fact, tunnel following the
>                pipes go on for many miles, kris-krossing and creating
>                a perfect labyrinth.
>=20
>                This site is the main push for the MegaTraveller II
>                computer game, in which the machinery activates and
>                releases an endless amount of toxic slime threatening
>                to cover up all of Rhylanor, if not stopped in time!
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> Corridor:
>=20
>      Ian Subsector:
>=20
>           Antiquity (ATTRACTION):
>=20
>                The Antiquity Ancients site, discovered in 385, is one
>                of the few sites which are open to Tourists. It=B4s
>                museum displays many wondrous and mysteriuos artifacts,
>                many of which are still in working condition, although
>                their uses mostly remain a mystery. .
>=20
>                Imperial Enzyclopedia, Library Data
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ???? (in Vargr Extends)
>=20
>      Knaeleng Subsector:
>=20
>           Tireen: (ATTRACTION)
>=20
>                The Tireen system features a Multiworld rosette,
>                created by the Ancients.
>=20
>                Imperial Enzyclopedia, Library Data
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061/ancients.html

- --=20
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.      =20
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 02:06:31 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Frank Chadwick

Does anyone know what Frank is up to these days?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:53:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Starship lifespan?

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, B Lynch-Blosse wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> Just a quick question (and a change from the current threads), What is the
> standard operational life span of a Space ship?
> 
> Would it suffer greatly from rust, space dust and debris? An obvious answer
> is _not to long in combat_, but given standard  overhalls/refitts and
> maintiance, can you expect 80-100 years? Would there be any M0 ships
> arround in MT times?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Blair Lynch-Blosse, BSc (MSc student)         lynchblo@waikato.ac.nz
>   Earth Sciences Department
>   University of Waikato
>   Private Bag 3105
>   Hamilton                                            175.19'E 37.47'S
>   NEW ZEALAND                "Trust No One. Deny Everything" - X-Files
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 

If we apply the same rule of thumb to starships that banks use on
automobiles (since in both cases, the bank owns the vehicle until it is
paid for), you can safely assume 4-5 times the loan period.  (About 20 yrs
for automobiles, 120-150 yrs for starships)  Of course, some last longer
(considerably longer with proper maintenance), and some don't last long at
all...

While it is possible that a starship could survive the 1000+ years from M0
to the MT era, I can't see it surviving in a commercial environment.
However, a group dedicated to maintaining the 'classic' starships could
concievably acquire and maintain a number of starships, showing them off
at spaceshows and providing the holovision and epic producers with working
period starships for their productions.

...much as the Confederate Air Force does with WWII vintage aircraft (here
in the US)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:10:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Jump Retrofits

Can jump drives be inexpensively retrofitted to purely interplanetary
spacecraft?  Presumably, if you really wanted to, you could strip the hull
plating from such a ship's frame, and replace it with plating with an
integral lanthanum jump grid, but this strikes me as being such a
dreadfully expensive process that it would probably be easier to just
build a new ship from the keel up (or, if you prefer, "from the spine
down").  Could, however, the lanthanum jump grid be added "on the cheap," 
by affixing strips, or cables, to the outside of an existing hull?  I can
envision a society with very basic spacefaring capabilities (Tech Level 8) 
retrofitting jump grids to anything spaceworthy as soon as jump technology
becomes available.  The Terrans, for example, might have "upgraded" some
of their "national" interplanetary naval vessels at the very beginning of
the 1st Interstellar War to keep the Vilani at arm's length until the
first real starships rolled off the assembly lines.

Personally, I'd allow "retrofitted" jump drives, but impose various small
but irritating penalties, such as decreased accuracy with respect to the
"break out point" at the end of the jump, a greatly increased chance of
misjumps, more maintenance, a nasty touch of "jump-sickness" for anyone
aboard, and so forth.  Better than nothing, yes, but not as good as a real
starship.  Opinions?
                                                               - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:38:36 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: What's the Frequency, Kenneth?

On 18 Feb 97 at 5:15, FKiesche@concentric.net spewed:

> There's been a few hints dropped...so here's the question:
> 
> For Mileu Zero/First Survey, does Sylea get moved from the subsector
> published in MMT/T4 to the "old canon" subsector (and sector) of
> "Classic Traveller"? Or does it stay where it is in MMT/T4?

Yes, it does move.  On the Core map in First Survey, it moves from
1821 (T4 book) to 2118 (First Survey/Milieu 0).  FWIW, 2118 is also
its hex location in the map of Core subsector in the corresponding
Travellers' Digest.  

> And if it **does get moved**, is there any sort of explanation
> given? Some folks had hinted that this would be the basis of an
> adventure (this was a few months ago)...

Yes.  The Adventure in question is the upcoming IG product Anomalies,
IIRC, which Marc Miller is apparently working on at this time.

Nothing like a little controversy to stir interest.  :-)  
Kind of like all those season-ending episodes in ST:TNG, a little,
ain't it.  Show the first part as the last episode of the season in
March, show the conclusion in September.  :-)

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Official USENet Product Infoperson  Imperium Games
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:02:26 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Why the Universe Changed (core sector)

In a message dated 97-02-18 10:30:27 EST, you write:

> 
>  or my personal favorites....
>  4)You're not cleared for that information.
>  
I think I'll use this one.

Marc
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:00:19 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Geonee in M0. Apology, esp. to Marc and Imperium Games.

In a message dated 97-02-18 08:54:52 EST, you write:

> 
>  To Marc and Imperium, I apologize for posting that stuff.  I know its
>  copyrighted.  The posting was a stupid error on my part.  I only did it
>  in an effort to assist Carlos since he doesn't expect to get First Survey
>  for a while.  I promise, it won't happen again consciously.
>  
>  Scott Galliand

OK Scott. Apology accepted. I've posted public what should have been private
more than once.

Meanwhile, I want to create a sidebar about the Geonee (3/4 of one column)
and I invite you and Carlos to discuss what that would be.

Marc

  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 12:08:06 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re:  QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> The thruster prices in QSDS 1.5 is 14 times higher
> than in QSDS 1.4. Is this a mistake?

I don't _think_ so; compare against the
thruster prices in SSDS.  I went over
the spreadsheets carefully, looking for
all of the "off-by-14" errors and trying
to fix them all for v1.5.

Guy "wildstar" Garnett
Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:18:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0

Can anyone tell me if the Core Sector stats have been returned to what they
were before IG mucked with them? In other words, back to how DGP laid them
out during the MegaTraveller days?

I'm a TNE holdout, and don't intend to buy the book unless IG had the sense
to go back to the original sector layout. Nothing worse than flouting
continuity in my book.

Best,

Chris Griffen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:14:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump Retrofits

Hi.

> From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>

> Can jump drives be inexpensively retrofitted to purely interplanetary
> spacecraft?  Presumably, if you really wanted to, you could strip the hull
> plating from such a ship's frame, and replace it with plating with an
> integral lanthanum jump grid, 

None of the early ship design systems (including those of MT, where the
idea of a "lanthanum grid" was first imposed) made ANY distinction
whatsoever in cost or performance between the hulls of starships and
those of jumpless spacecraft. AFAIK, "Starships" makes no distinction
either. (I have not yet noticed mention of a lanthanum grid in T4.)

Also, the jump tug (described in Supplement 9, CT) can actually tow bulk
ore (which presumably does not come with a lanthanum grid installed) and
non-star ships  through jump space. Supplement 9 does not mention any
possible problems caused by this.

My opinion: judging from design rules, installing j-drives in a ship
does not present any obstacles more serious than those presented by
installing anything else in a ship. Your scenario sounds very plausable.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:34:40 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: RoM / Second Imperium

Anyone know what TL the Second Imperium got to? I'd like to include a relic
ship in an adventure, and haven't seen ( & can't recall seeing) anything
about how far the Terrans got in out teching the Vilani.

(Yes, I know I asked this before, but it got lost in the noise!)

    -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"But everything is still the same; passing the time, passing the blame.
We carry on in the same old way, we'll find out we left it too late one day,
 to say what we meant to say." - Marillion
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:34:36 +0000
From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com (SD Mooney)
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

<<These things, as I said, are really REALLY big...they carried 16 50,000
ton cargo modules, something like > 750,000 dT of cargo at once. They had
a crew of 87 THOUSAND people, though approximately half of those were
simply the dependents of the crew...basically, these things were jump
capable suburbs.>>

Have you read any of the 'Culture' novels by Iain Banks? These sound just
like the Ships in them, except maybe those ships have super intelligent AIs
in control... It does pose the question "Why not put the manufacturing
facilities on the ships, and have done with it?".

    -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"But everything is still the same; passing the time, passing the blame.
We carry on in the same old way, we'll find out we left it too late one day,
 to say what we meant to say." - Marillion
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:30:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
> > have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
> > does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
> > does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the 
> > crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
> > member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
> > nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.
> 
> You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
> navigators. Real-space *and* jump-space both require some moderately
> complex calculations to avoid wasting fuel or running into things.

[regretfully snipping an excellent discourse - I really like the way Mr.
Erickson thinks!]

While I have not seen a specific reference to this rule in T4, in MT is
was stated that if you have a charactor functioning in more than one role
on a starship, he could not apply the skill bonuses to either.  In other
words, if you have a Pilot-4/Navigator-2 functioning as both pilot and
Navigator, you effectively have a Pilot-1/Navigator-1.  (Astrogation was
not a skill then)

That alone justifies the extra body, in my mind.  (Yes, that rule is
active in my campaign)  That is, unless you are comfortable launching with
a Pilot-1...

Another factor in your decision should be this.  The Nav-computer is going
to set up and execute your jump.  Pretty much anyone can set up the basic
jump variables that will get you from system A to system B.  However, the
Nav computer is going to select from a pre-determined number of points for
both the J-drive entry and exit points (based on a complex algorithm using
your launch date and time to ensure no two spacecraft select the same
points) as well as determining your entry and exit vectors.  This would be
mandated not only for traffic control purposes, but also (in case of
emergency) to ease the complexity of a search and rescue mission.

Unfortunately, it's also a fact of life that the algorithm has been hacked
into tiny little pieces, and if someone knows when a ship is scheduled to
jump, then someone can place their ship in the approximate location (on
either end of the jump) for interception.

How can this be avoided?  By using the 'for advanced users only' features
of the Navigation/Astrogation software and inputting vector overrides and
coordinate off-sets!  Who can do this?  Only a astrogator who has time to
sit down and work with the navigation system.

Or go buy a customized navigation program...

 --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #964
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 18 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 965



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Traveller Question
Re: Jump Retrofits
Re: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices
Correction in my THUDD Entry
Re: T4 Gripes
Re: THUDDD: Maximun staterooms 
Re: Steward requirements
Stewards and Steward skills
Re: THUDD - Maximum Staterooms
Re: RoM / Second Imperium
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: Cargo costs...
Re: Jump Retrofits
Re: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices 
Re: [T97#957] Back to the old Corestead
Another SSDS ship Design: Century Class Luxury Liner

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:30:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
> > have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
> > does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
> > does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the 
> > crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
> > member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
> > nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.
> 
> You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
> navigators. Real-space *and* jump-space both require some moderately
> complex calculations to avoid wasting fuel or running into things.

[regretfully snipping an excellent discourse - I really like the way Mr.
Erickson thinks!]

While I have not seen a specific reference to this rule in T4, in MT is
was stated that if you have a charactor functioning in more than one role
on a starship, he could not apply the skill bonuses to either.  In other
words, if you have a Pilot-4/Navigator-2 functioning as both pilot and
Navigator, you effectively have a Pilot-1/Navigator-1.  (Astrogation was
not a skill then)

That alone justifies the extra body, in my mind.  (Yes, that rule is
active in my campaign)  That is, unless you are comfortable launching with
a Pilot-1...

Another factor in your decision should be this.  The Nav-computer is going
to set up and execute your jump.  Pretty much anyone can set up the basic
jump variables that will get you from system A to system B.  However, the
Nav computer is going to select from a pre-determined number of points for
both the J-drive entry and exit points (based on a complex algorithm using
your launch date and time to ensure no two spacecraft select the same
points) as well as determining your entry and exit vectors.  This would be
mandated not only for traffic control purposes, but also (in case of
emergency) to ease the complexity of a search and rescue mission.

Unfortunately, it's also a fact of life that the algorithm has been hacked
into tiny little pieces, and if someone knows when a ship is scheduled to
jump, then someone can place their ship in the approximate location (on
either end of the jump) for interception.

How can this be avoided?  By using the 'for advanced users only' features
of the Navigation/Astrogation software and inputting vector overrides and
coordinate off-sets!  Who can do this?  Only a astrogator who has time to
sit down and work with the navigation system.

Or go buy a customized navigation program...

 --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:31:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
> > have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
> > does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
> > does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the 
> > crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
> > member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
> > nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.
> 
> You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
> navigators. Real-space *and* jump-space both require some moderately
> complex calculations to avoid wasting fuel or running into things.

[regretfully snipping an excellent discourse - I really like the way Mr.
Erickson thinks!]

While I have not seen a specific reference to this rule in T4, in MT is
was stated that if you have a charactor functioning in more than one role
on a starship, he could not apply the skill bonuses to either.  In other
words, if you have a Pilot-4/Navigator-2 functioning as both pilot and
Navigator, you effectively have a Pilot-1/Navigator-1.  (Astrogation was
not a skill then)

That alone justifies the extra body, in my mind.  (Yes, that rule is
active in my campaign)  That is, unless you are comfortable launching with
a Pilot-1...

Another factor in your decision should be this.  The Nav-computer is going
to set up and execute your jump.  Pretty much anyone can set up the basic
jump variables that will get you from system A to system B.  However, the
Nav computer is going to select from a pre-determined number of points for
both the J-drive entry and exit points (based on a complex algorithm using
your launch date and time to ensure no two spacecraft select the same
points) as well as determining your entry and exit vectors.  This would be
mandated not only for traffic control purposes, but also (in case of
emergency) to ease the complexity of a search and rescue mission.

Unfortunately, it's also a fact of life that the algorithm has been hacked
into tiny little pieces, and if someone knows when a ship is scheduled to
jump, then someone can place their ship in the approximate location (on
either end of the jump) for interception.

How can this be avoided?  By using the 'for advanced users only' features
of the Navigation/Astrogation software and inputting vector overrides and
coordinate off-sets!  Who can do this?  Only a astrogator who has time to
sit down and work with the navigation system.

Or go buy a customized navigation program...

 --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:50:11 -0500
From: sturm <sturm@tiac.net>
Subject: Traveller Question

- ------------7ACA7D83D8C0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

I have been a big Traveller fan for years and was wondering if any
computer game computer had the rights to produce RPG's set in the
Traveller universe.

Thanks

steve nadeau
sturm@tiac.net

- ------------7ACA7D83D8C0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<HTML><BODY>

<DT>Hi,</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>I have been a big Traveller fan for years and was wondering if any
computer game computer had the rights to produce RPG's set in the Traveller
universe.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>Thanks</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>steve nadeau</DT>

<DT>sturm@tiac.net&nbsp;</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------------7ACA7D83D8C0--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:55:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Retrofits

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, John P. Raynor wrote:

> 
> Can jump drives be inexpensively retrofitted to purely interplanetary
> spacecraft?  Presumably, if you really wanted to, you could strip the hull
> plating from such a ship's frame, and replace it with plating with an
> integral lanthanum jump grid, but this strikes me as being such a
> dreadfully expensive process that it would probably be easier to just
> build a new ship from the keel up (or, if you prefer, "from the spine
> down").  Could, however, the lanthanum jump grid be added "on the cheap," 
> by affixing strips, or cables, to the outside of an existing hull?  I can
> envision a society with very basic spacefaring capabilities (Tech Level 8) 
> retrofitting jump grids to anything spaceworthy as soon as jump technology
> becomes available.  The Terrans, for example, might have "upgraded" some
> of their "national" interplanetary naval vessels at the very beginning of
> the 1st Interstellar War to keep the Vilani at arm's length until the
> first real starships rolled off the assembly lines.
> 
> Personally, I'd allow "retrofitted" jump drives, but impose various small
> but irritating penalties, such as decreased accuracy with respect to the
> "break out point" at the end of the jump, a greatly increased chance of
> misjumps, more maintenance, a nasty touch of "jump-sickness" for anyone
> aboard, and so forth.  Better than nothing, yes, but not as good as a real
> starship.  Opinions?
>                                                                - J. Raynor
> 

This brings up a very interesting point, one I hadn't really considered
before.  At what point is the lanthium grid added to the ship?  I assume
that it is part of the J-Drive cost (esp. since that is based on the
volume of the ship), since there is no distinction between spaceship hull
costs and starship hull costs.

Based on this, I would tend to see the grid added after the hull is
completed, bonded to the exterior.  Standard starship hulls may be
'grooved' to permit workers to easily lay the grid.

So, I see no problem whatsoever about retrofitting jump drives, once you
solve the problems of volume, power and tankage for 'em!  :)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:26:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices

> Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> > The thruster prices in QSDS 1.5 is 14 times higher
> > than in QSDS 1.4. Is this a mistake?
> 
> I don't _think_ so; compare against the
> thruster prices in SSDS.  I went over
> the spreadsheets carefully, looking for
> all of the "off-by-14" errors and trying
> to fix them all for v1.5.

I don't have SSDS, so I can't say about that. But compared to the thruster
prices in Megatraveller it is a mistake. (I looked in FF&S, but couldn't find
them there). Please think about this carefully. Upping the thruster prices by
a factor 14 adds another hefty chunk to starship prices. And aren't they
supposed to be an improvement over HEPlaR? I haven't made up an example yet,
but I'm pretty sure that if they are that expensive, it becomes much more
economic to use HEPlaR.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "This gives a possible range of 56 to 178 starships
         total  in the three Terran starport facilities,  a
         believable quantity for such a star system."

        "We have a maximum of 178 ships in port, and (as it
         is a busy star system)  we will say that there are
         70 docking berths at the Phoenix facility."

                        ---Journal of the Traveller's
                           Aid Society # 22

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:36:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Correction in my THUDD Entry

Fool that I am I just noticed in reading my backlog of digests that 
I left the name of my Far Trader entry.  To make voting easier, add
in for mine 

Name: Tauri Lines Exploratory Trader

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:30:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes

I like the new char-gen system.  T4 is the first system which gives 
characters a realistic number of skills.  However, madly inflated skill 
levels is a very poor idea.  The T4 system is set up so that with only a 
minor change maximum skill could be 6.  Given that a character can get a 
license to practice medicine with Medical 3 this makes good sense.

As for advancement, it's totally broken.  A chance to go up after every
adventure is simply too fast.  A maximum of 1 roll every 90 days of game
time sounds like a good fix here (not one roll/skill, but one roll to
raise one skill). 

Using the 1/2 stat + 2x skill system, with a possible, but high skill level 
someone with a stat of 10 and a skill of 6 is going to have a target 
number of 17.  That means that 4D for impossible tasks is silly (80% 
chance of success).  5 dice is little better (49% chance of success).  To 
me, impossible tasks should be highly risky for even the very skilled.

However, 6 Dice begins to look more reasonable (I'm not sure of the exact 
numbers, but it's around 25%, ie *very* risky).

How about a system with 

2 D Routine
3 D Difficult
4 D Formidable
5 D Staggering
6 D Impossible

This system uses no half dice and gives average skilled characters (stat
7, skill 3) a 92% chance with routine tasks, 50% with difficult tasks and
3% with staggering tasks.  Sounds OK to me. 

Personally I prefer T4 char gen and MT tasks, but that system looks 
unlikely to make it into the formal T4 rules.

As a side note, folks actually *roll* their skills?   We've always picked 
(with GM veto on munchkining).  I tend to start with a character concept, 
the idea of having to revise that because the character's skills look 
nothing like the concept sounds very annoying.


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:53:55 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD: Maximun staterooms 

When designing my entry, the Burov, to have a 40 Middle passangers I
completely forgot that there was such thing as a passenger table, let alone
that it was included in T4 (I just don't spend much time going over the main
book).  Was the passenger table suppose to a design consideration and I just
missed the mention of it on the TML or in the Far Trader design specs?

BTW it seems the my designs have a jammer rating of 9.  This is a typo and it
should be a rating of 0.  The problely some other stuff wrong that I have yet
to notice.

Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller page
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:24:34 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Steward requirements

>Paul D. Owensby writes:
>>Stewards 2 (one required for command crew plus one required for middle
>>        passengers, per QSDS 1.5)
>
>I suggest that this rule should be interpreted as 1/8th of a steward per
>command crew and high passenger and 1/50th of a steward per crew and mid
>passenger (With a minimum of one).

That is certainly a more logical way of doing the calculations, it's just
that the
QSDS says "One steward is required per 8 high passengers (or command crew), 
***PLUS*** one steward is ***ALSO*** required per 50 middle passengers (or 
non-command crew). Round all fractions up." [emphasis added] The "plus" and 
the "also" just lead me to believe that the commander and high passengers
just refuse to share their cabin boy with the lowly deck hands and people 
travelling coach. If this should be done the other way, then it really needs to
be clarified, as I'm not the only one who reads it to say two stewards.


**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:30:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Stewards and Steward skills

From Commander X at the office
(Pay no attention tho that man behind the curtain!)

I have a question regarding the crew position of steward.  Wasn't there a 
skill called "Steward" back in CT MT or TNE somewhere?  As far as I can 
tell, a steward is little more than a cabin person,  someone to cook and 
clean and look after the passengers.  A maid or a butler.  Apparently any 
idiot could fill this position, even the Marine who isnt doing anything 
usefull during the 7 day jump cycle.  Are there any aplicable (official) 
skills in T4 that people should consider buying during character creation in 
order that they can land a job doing stewarding?

I have come up with the following house rules.

 Art(Cooking) The person is experienced in the preparing of foods that are 
at least palatable(lv 1) to Imperial Class 5 starburst restaurant (lv 5+) 
 The level of expertese allows the person to know one type of cuisine 
(Sylean, Solomani, Vilani, etc...)

Art (Bartender)  The Art of Mixed Drinks.  Alows making of simple drinks, 
Scotch and Water all the way up to the complex and deadly if mixed 
incorectly  Pan Imperial Starburst!

Acting, not only can this be used for perfoming in a play, but it can also 
be used for a stand up comic's act.  Useful skill to have on board a free 
trader, holocrystal videos get boring after a while.  A good lounge act is 
hard to find.

Any idiot can be a cabin boy/girl, cleaning is easy with modern TL-12 
conviences, better yet, buy a bot!

These are unofficial of course, but if someone does happen upon the Steward 
skill in T4, feel free to correct me.  (I get corrected left and right at 
work all the time, It don't bother me, unless I havent had my COFFEE!  <G>)

and remeber, the reason core sector changed is.....
"You're not cleared for that information"
(Its official, Marc says so! See last digest <G>)

Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:29:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: THUDD - Maximum Staterooms

  Hi Steve - thanks for posting the information.  I was wondering how you
did your calculations?  I get somewhat different results.  Here's your
Table:

 Pop.    --- Passengers ---    Freight
(UWP)    High  Middle  Cold     (Std)
 -------------------------------------
  0       --     --     --        --
  1       --      1      1         0
  2        0      3      7        60
  3        5      6      7       105
  4        6      6      9.5     150
  5        6      8.5    9.5     195
  6        8.5    8.5   10.5     240
  7        8.5    9.5   10.5     285
  8        9.5    9.5   14       333
  9        9.5   10.5   17.5     378
  A       10.5   14     21       429


  Now, I'm not much a math wiz, so I had to do the calculations by hand
(listing possible rolls and counting all results), but I get some very
different results for the lower pop planets I did.  The following table
shows the percentage chance of a particular number of passengers at
various population levels.  The symbol * means a chance less than 0.5%.
The total chance may not equal 100% due to rounding.


		% Chance of that Number of High Passengers
Pop    0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12      ROLL
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
1    100						      ---
2     58  14  11   8   6   3				     1D-1D
3     56  11  10   8   6   4   3   2   1   *   *             2D-2D
4     16  10  12  13  13  12  10   7   5   3   1   *         2D-1D
5     16  10  12  13  13  12  10   7   5   3   1   *         2D-1D


  What does this mean?  Well, take a look at the High Passengers available
at a pop 3 world.  Over half the time, actually 55% of the time, you are
going to get no passengers at all.  In fact, there is a declining but real
possibility of getting no high passengers at all up to pop 9.  For a pop 4
or 5 world, there is a 51% chance of getting 3 or fewer passengers.   

  The question I have for you, Steve, is that my calculations show that
there is only about a 14% chance of getting the 5 passengers you list in
your table as being average for pop 3 worlds.  Could you explain the
reason for the difference? 

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:58:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: RoM / Second Imperium

> Anyone know what TL the Second Imperium got to? I'd like to include a relic
> ship in an adventure, and haven't seen ( & can't recall seeing) anything
> about how far the Terrans got in out teching the Vilani.
> 
> (Yes, I know I asked this before, but it got lost in the noise!)

Well, we know that the Terrans beat the Viliani Empire based upon 
their invention of:

a) Jump-3
b) The Meson Gun

as well as other minor things like

c) Use of robots
and
d) Advanced genetic manipulation

So, I think it's stated (and generally accepted) that the RoM reached
TL12 (sans Fusion+), stretching into TL13 in some areas.

The Solomani Aliens module and Solomani & Aslan both discuss the RoM,
as it's a pretty big deal in Solomani history.

Ethan
- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:53:53 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

Shadow writes

>In mail you write:
>> According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
>> have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that.
>You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
>navigators.

But, in the Real World, airplanes *don't* need navigators any more; 
the navigator seat on an airplane was pretty much gone by the 1980,
with the advent of decent computers and decent electronic navigation aides
(even before there was GPS.) 

In realspace, the pilot of a traveller ship almost certainly does all the 
navigation tasks Leonard referes to too - calculating the course, 
checking to make sure you haven't violated any traffic regulations, etc.
What else is there for a pilot to do in a non-combat/non-landing situation?
It's not like the pilot has to sit with his hands on the steering wheel all
the time...

I tend to assume the astrogator deals *only* with jump navigation, and
that it's a moderately complicated job, requiring several hours of calculation.
It certainly could be combined with piloting on a small starship, though - 
the only disadvantage would be (a) a pilot/navigator combo might not have
as high a skill in either as a pair of speciallists, and (b) if you get into
combat, you won't be able to jump out, as your pilot will be too busy piloting
to navigate.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:10:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Cargo costs...

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, SD Mooney wrote:
> Have you read any of the 'Culture' novels by Iain Banks? These sound just
> like the Ships in them, except maybe those ships have super intelligent AIs
> in control... It does pose the question "Why not put the manufacturing
> facilities on the ships, and have done with it?".

Or look at James Blish's "Cities in Flight" series.  Early in Blish's
"future history," Earth's economy collapses when cheap interstellar travel
makes it possible for first factories, and then whole cities, to leave
(leaving the poor, the unskilled, and the otherwise undesirable, behind). 

                                                              - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:46:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump Retrofits

In mail you write:

> Can jump drives be inexpensively retrofitted to purely interplanetary
> spacecraft?

There's a big difference between "easily retrofitted", which should be
true, and "cheaply retrofitted" which may or may not be true.

> Presumably, if you really wanted to, you could strip the hull
> plating from such a ship's frame, and replace it with plating with an
> integral lanthanum jump grid, but this strikes me as being such a
> dreadfully expensive process that it would probably be easier to just
> build a new ship from the keel up (or, if you prefer, "from the spine
> down"). 

It also makes little sense, since the hull grid isn't *that* integral.
There's no reason a hull grid *can't* be added to a hull that didn't
start with one. No need to strip the original hull plates. Just machine
in the "grooves" to hold the grid, then install the grid. It shouldn't
be *that* much harder than replacing a grid that has taken major
battle damage.

> Could, however, the lanthanum jump grid be added "on the cheap," 
> by affixing strips, or cables, to the outside of an existing hull? 

Given that there's an old design for a "jump tug" that uses a *net* of
cables to enclose items to be hauled through jump, I'd say it's doable.

But I think it's a much better idea to actually build a grid into the
hull. It won't cost *that* much more, and will be far more reliable.

> I can
> envision a society with very basic spacefaring capabilities (Tech Level 8) 
> retrofitting jump grids to anything spaceworthy as soon as jump technology
> becomes available. 

So can I. That's why I think it's not nearly as bad as you think. 

> The Terrans, for example, might have "upgraded" some
> of their "national" interplanetary naval vessels at the very beginning of
> the 1st Interstellar War to keep the Vilani at arm's length until the
> first real starships rolled off the assembly lines.

The big problem *isn't* the hull grid. It's finding *room* inside the
hull for the J-drive and the extrea fuel tankage. A non-Jump ship will
have been built with all the space dedicated to *other* purposes. 

> Personally, I'd allow "retrofitted" jump drives, but impose various small
> but irritating penalties, such as decreased accuracy with respect to the
> "break out point" at the end of the jump, a greatly increased chance of
> misjumps, more maintenance, a nasty touch of "jump-sickness" for anyone
> aboard, and so forth.  Better than nothing, yes, but not as good as a real
> starship.  Opinions?

I think that fitting the hull grid is tedious, and rather expensive.
But not unreasonably so. The real problem is finding space inside the
ship for the J-drive and fuel. It's going to have to come out of cargo
space or (gasp!) weapons and n-space drive.

To properly simulate this, you need to design an *intelligently*
designed non-jump ship. One designed to make optimum use of all the
internal space. Then try to shoehorn a J-drive into the hull. The
disadvantages will appear! Either no cargo, or having to rip out the
existing drive and power plant and replace them with smaller ones. Or
some other compromise.

It'll be *worse* than the mess involved in creating a carrier out of a
battle cruiser (done a few times in the 30s) or creating a nuclear sub
from a diesel sub (done a couple of times in the 50s).

What might work better would be taking some old *chemical* propelled
ships (and old NERVA type ships) and converting them to fusion *and*
adding a jump drive. That means you gewt to keep the hull, and much of
the avionics, but you gain space because of the greatly lowered fuel
requirements. Of course, you'll be *terribly* under-armored.... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:16:59 -0800
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices 

...hence why my THUDD Far Trader used HEPLAR.

Btw, I haven't been able to find a straight answer in the
archive I've kept of the various lists... was the HEPLAR
fuel usage error still in QSDS 1.5, or was it fixed by then?

- -george

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 17:38:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#957] Back to the old Corestead

"Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier1.premier.net> hath scriven...

T::>Allen the GM writes

T::>Hmmm...so the Core Subsector has been altered, presumably back to what
 ::>it was before the T4 rulebook was printed...
 ::>        This will have interesting ramifications for my campaign,
 ::>        because I
 ::>am NOT going to just pretend that nothing happened. When my players
 ::>get back from their little jaunt to the Gushemege sector, they will
 ::>find everything...different.
 ::>        So guys, help me figure out (in story terms) what happened...
 ::>        :)

T::>You have to be joking, the only thing I can think of is an imperial
 ::>degree changing the names and locations of the Core and the capital.
 ::>As for how systems physically moved I have no clue. Grandfather, a
 ::>Huge natural disaster,(this may be the physical form of  the phi wave that
 ::>shows its self in MT)

 Actually, the explanation is quite simple - you know those
 misjumps where the ship just seems to vanish, never to be found
 again?  Well, your players experienced one of them from the
 "other side".  The reason that they were never seen again on
 the world that their mission started from is because they
 exited a jump (no way of knowing which one, at this late date)
 in the wrong universe.  All the data that they collected before
 the misjump is unreliable for this universe - but they don't
 know it.

 It so happens that they have "alter egos" in this universe who
 were sent on a similar mission (and also misjumped
 catastrophically), so nobody will find their appearance
 remarkable.  But some of the questions that your PCs will as
 are going to get them strange looks - "What's the Ordun bloc up
 to in the Senat/Moot?"     "Who's Ordun?"

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  We all have our darker side. We need it...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:50:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Another SSDS ship Design: Century Class Luxury Liner

Century Class Luxe Liner, jump 2
A, Really, REALLY expensive way to travel! 

Tons: 4000 Std (Disk SL)   Volume: 56,000 m^3           Cost: 1391 MCr
Crew: 61                   High Pass: 108+              Low: 0
Cargo: 202 Std             Controls: High Civ (Bridge)  TL: 12

9 Size                                	2 Jump Drive (400 Std/Pc Fuel)
2 95 Mj laser turrets -                 3 Maneuver (Thruster, 3000 Mw)
     				      	1.7 Power Plant (2500,500, 4*100 mW)
            			      	800 Fuel
	 				A4 P4 J0 Sensors
                                      	20 Armor, 28 Structure

Crew Detail: 8 Command, 2 Pilot, 1 Astrogator, 1 Sensors/Commo, 10 Engineer,
2 Gunnery, 2 Medical, 33 Steward 

Accomodations: 74 Small staterooms, 101 Large staterooms, 8 Super suites
All available cargo space reserved for passengers.

Auxilary Craft: 2 40 ton Ships Boats, not included in Ship cost, neither is
the actual cost of furnishings included. (see referee's notes)

	The Century Class liner represents the Apex of luxury travel
in the Imperium. Named for the 100 high staterooms it offers, there are 8
additional super suites available for the wealthy traveller who desires real
pampering.  Each Supersuite is individually decorated with lavish
appointments, many built in features, and a steward permanently assigned to
each suite. 

	In addition, there are four Century Lounges, each a 4 star
restaurant in it's own right, each featuring different cuisines. The Ship is
cappped with the Grand Ballroom. When in Normal space, the Cover over the
Ballroom opens up to allow a glorious view of the cosmos. Top musical and
other entertainemnt acts are booked for each flight, occupying the remaining
small staterooms, or one or more of the large, depending on their own status. 

	The large number of stewards also includes the chefs and waitstaff
for the lounges, and roomsevice is available 24/7. 
 
	Travel on the Century class ships is not cheap; this is truly an 'if
you have to ask..' type of travel service. Prices START at 25,000 Cr per
person per jump, depending on origination and destination ports, and time of
year.  However, many of the fabulously rich feel there is no other way to
travel. 

	Each Century class ship is named for a different great era in
history, such as the Renaissance, the Regency, the Barsharkin Interlude, and
often decorated to suit as well. As of this writing there are 7 Century class
liners in existence, and the because of the current economic expansion, 3
more are in varing stages of completion. 

Referee's notes: Obviously, this really isn't a model for PC-owned ships...if
your PC's can afford one of these, hand them the keys to the game and walk
away! 

	These are great plot devices, an obscenely wealthy patron might fly
the PC's from place to place on one of these, or the PC's could get involved
in a swindle, or theft on one of these, or..

	Just remember, these are the very cream of the crop of luxury ships
in the Imperium; these ships are furnished with valulable antiques, lavish
settings, and provide the best food.

	The lasers are there primarily for show...many passengers simply feel
better on an armed ship; these ships typically travel through well-guarded
systems, or on their rare forays into less-protected areas of the imperium,
with one or two Naval escorts.

Comments?

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #965
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 19 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 966



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

This one is a little late...
Re: Jump Retrofits
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: [TML] fire, fuel for...
Re: What do Zhodhani Look Like ?
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: Jump Retrofits
Where can one buy FS/M0?
Re: Zhodani looks
Re: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: Frank Chadwick
Mayday, anyone?
Re: Starships Errata
Combat rules against robots/vehicles
Re: T4 Gripes
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
NAS and psionic shields
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:37:50 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: This one is a little late...

        But I figured that I might as well throw it out for THUDDD voting
anyhow.  Enjoy, people.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:34:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Retrofits

> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:10:43 -0500 (EST)
> From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
> 
> Can jump drives be inexpensively retrofitted to purely interplanetary
> spacecraft? [...]

This leads naturally into the broader question of ship retrofits/upgrades
in general.  In general, this is going to be both hard and expensive;
spacecraft are going to be very tightly built, with componenets fitting
together like puzzle pieces.  Changing the shape or size of a puzzle piece
is going to be nontrivial.  Additionally, interfacing a nonstandard
componenet is likely to require additional hardware to handle power and
data linkage conversion.

Working totally off the top of my head, here is my proposed
retrofit/upgrade rule:

For each component installed on a ship after delivery, calculate its
Compaibility Factor (CF) using the following formula:

For replacement parts (pulling out old unit):
    Start with CF = 1.0
    + 0.2 if either repl. part or ship are not pure QSDS
    + 0.2 per TL difference between part and ship base TL
    + 0.5 if new part takes more volume than old one
    + 0.2 if new part needs more than double the power of the old one

For new parts:
    Start with CF = 1.5
    + 0.2 per TL difference between part and ship base TL

The cost, volume, and mass (if applicable) of the new part are multiplied
by the CF to obtain the actual values for it.  Area, power, and other
ratings remain unaffected. 

For example, adding a TL 11 6-Std jump-2 drive to a TL-10 ship that's
never had a jump drive before (presumably bolting it into a corner of the
hold or such, plus adding a lanthanum grid if your universe workds that
way)  would give you...

  CF = 1.5 + (0.2 for a 1-TL diff) = 1.7

So, the cost comparison for the drive (using QSDS 1.5 for the base data)
would be:

               Volume (Std)     Price (MCr)
  Built-in          6.0            25.2
  Retrofit         10.2            42.8

On the other hand, replacing a QSDS TL-11 3-Std laser with a TL-12 3-Std
QSDS model which uses less than twice as much power would look like... 

  CF = 1.0 + (0.2 for 1-TL diff) = 1.2

The numbers for this look like:

               Volume (Std)     Price (MCr)
  Built-in          3.0             1.4
  Retrofit          3.6             1.7

The added volume would be taken up by power and control adaptors external
to the turret.

Ship designers may if desired reserve space for components to be installed
at a later time.  They must specify the precise component being omitted,
and appropriate volume and area (but *not* necessarily power) must be
allocated in the initial ship design for the omitted components.  The
omitted component is then treated as "virtually present" for purposes of
calculating the CF.  This will in turn result in a CF of 1.0 (i.e., normal
cost) if the missing component or a close equivalent is ever installed.
This allows for the classic Traveller practice of designing in 3-ton
turrets and 50-ton bays without specifying weapons at design time, for
example.

Comments?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:43:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

"Astrogators are a waste of money and lifesupport."
				-Tong Viiradu
				 SureJump Flight Plans
				 Rhylanor downport

Why pay a Astrogator salary and support for a function that can be
performed in a automated fashion?  SureJump Flight Plans are available at
every Class 'C' starport and above throughout the Rhylanor subsector.  For
a quarter of the base salary of a Astrogator, we will supply you with the
necessary information to navigate to the jump point and perform a
successful and safe jump to the destiniation you specify AND our
software will provide the basic information needed to establish a
standard orbit around the destination world!  As an added bonus, we will
provide ONE FREE update, should that become necessary in-transit!

Worried about that rogue pilot on your salary?  Unfortunately, Sector Law
requires a licensed pilot aboard, and in the cockpit during take off,
landings, dockings or undockings.  However, fully automated control is
provided for, and with our exclusive software package -SureJump Navigator,
that is what you will have.

From a standard orbit, our software will interface with our flight plan
and transport you safely to and from the jump point with no error!  And by
removing pilot incurred variables from the jump plot, you will reduce your
chance of mis-jump appreciably!(*1)

In the unfortunate (but rare!) event of a emergence from JumpSpace outside
the preset parameters of the SureJump software, we now have available a
new module,  SureJump NavFinder!  This software will search out and lock
onto standard orbital beacons, and then automatically plot a direct line
course to that beacon.  Once communication is established with the local
SureJump office, you may upload your course update for a least cost orbit
in! (*2)

While attack in space seldom occurs in real life, we recognise that it
does, in fact, occur.  Our local offices are authorised, upon confirmation
of hostile action, to upload FREE(*3) course corrections as required by
your ship.  We will take you out to the jump point or bring you in to the
planet, AS YOU REQUIRE!

SureJump Flight Plans
For a safer tomorrow!

(*1 - not yet substantiated by statistical evidence)
(*2 - if you have already used your course update, you may purchase a new
course, OAC, and apply this update against it)
(*3 - Course corrections will be charged to your account as stated in our 
service agreement, and refunded, without predjudice, upon confirmation
of attack by an authorized representative of system defense command.)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:25:48 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] fire, fuel for...

- ----------
> From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: [TML] fire, fuel for...
> Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 3:25 AM

>   Compressing hydrogen; presumably you can't significantly at common
> TL's, or it would already be done, but if my campaign warranted it,
> I'd do it.  As for sponge-like intersticial storage methods, that
> brings up the really exciting question of mass.  If 14 m(3) of
> titanium stores ten metric tons/displacement tons of hydrogen, great,
> but you must buy it, and push the mass around.  Have fun with the math.
> (Note, that's from a Striker book 3 fan, it's probably not an issue in
T4)

Why not use gravitational compression technology to create and store 
SuperDense LHyd (patent pending)? The storage unit requires an
uninterrupted power source, which can (and should) be built into the
unit, to reduce the risk of accidental uncollapse.  However certain safety
features can be built in to minimize the chance of a unit going BOOM like
a fusion bomb (due to rapid uncollapse and subsequent compression while
inside the unit).  

Eric Freitas
edf@atlantic.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:06:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: What do Zhodhani Look Like ?

     Peter Newman raises a good point re: the fact that a significant portion
of the population of the Zhodani-controlled Spinward Marches will have been
"ethnically Imperial" since the eve of the Frontier Wars.  This reminds me of
something mentioned in a class I took on Medieval Spain-- Abd ar-Rahman III, a
Muslim Caliph in 11th-century Spain, had red hair and blue eyes.  
     Sure, emigration and interbreeding will have made the "typical Zhodani"
more common in the intervening centuries, and most of the Nobles, Diplomats,
and Fleet Admirals (that is, the type who will be seen by Imperials, outside of
the Consulate) will be more "ethnically pure," but I have to imagine that a
sizeable percentage of the Proles on these planets will be of highly-mixed
heritage and virtually indistinguishable from their Imperial adversaries in the
next subsector.  Thus, the potential for "passing" is easier than one might at
first have thought; at least from a physiological standpoint.

Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:58:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

     OK, this char-gen/tasks/experience thing seems to be working itself into a
circle since somebody just advocated my original fix (2/3/4/5/6).  As I'm sure
Kenneth Bearden will probably post sooner or later, that fix doesn't work as
well as his (and now my) (2/2.5/3/4/5) because "Difficult" tasks become too
hard for somewhat-lame characters, which I can believe.
     As for character generation, I don't see any problems at all.  Sure, abuse
can create super-characters, but what's new about that.  As my experience has
shown (about a dozen characters) PCs will generally have one or two skills in
the 4-5 range, a couple more 3s, and lots (~10) 1-2s.  So, the typical PC
(which, it's worth pointing out, is not necessarily the same thing as the
typical NPC) will have at best something like Stat 13 Skill 5-- target 18 (or,
if you use the KB version-- which I greatly prefer-- 17), which, even without
the large CritFail chances, puts him below 50% success on "Impossible" tasks. 
Some people think that's too high, but rather than completely re-writing the
task system, I think a better "fix" is to call it "Nearly Impossible" and 86
that quote about this being hard for "the best in the galaxy".  For
completeness sake, we can include "Really Impossible" at 10D or something, but
I can't imagine that 99% of us really need such a thing.
     Experience, though, provides a nasty problem which I hadn't noticed before
(since my actual campaign-style Playing of T4 has been very limited).  I'd
suggest implementing (in addition to the obviously-needed fix of only adding 5
to the second die roll) both of the so-far-suggested fixes. 1) A skill
improvement can only be attempted once/90 days/current skill level. 2) Once a
character's combined skill points exceed INT + EDU, all xp (for lack of a
better term) costs are doubled.  Thus, if Joe Starfighter wants to improve his
Piloting from +7 to +8, assuming he's over his limit he'll have to spend 4 xp,
have a very slim chance of an improvement, and if he fails he can't try again
for a year-and-a-half.  This should pretty Dramatically slow down high-level
advancement, and generally keep the system more in-line with the approx 1
point/year rate from char-gen.  Since I haven't actually done any sort of
statistical study on this, nor have I actually put it to use, I'm possibly
overlooking some semi-obvious flaws, but from where I'm sitting this double-fix
seems pretty workable.  Anyone care to run some numbers on this?

     So, as a re-cap, char-gen isn't broken; the task system is slightly broken
(or at least slightly more "heroic/stat-based" than a lot of us prefer) but
there's already a workable fix, especially if we call the 5D difficulty "Nearly
Impossible" and don't consider it the be-all and end-all of difficulty; and the
experience system seems pretty badly broken at higher levels, but we've got a
couple of possible fixes suggested so it's not fatal.  Assessment: the basic
game system of T4 works, dammit; it just needs a little tinkering here and
there, which is what we're here to provide!
     Now if we can only come up with some bug-free and easy-to-use Starship 
Design system that everyone can be happy with....

Trent Smith

P.S. To Kenneth Bearden: After several months, I finally got around to printing
up and reading your T4 combat system, and I like it.  A little more detailed in
some places than I need/want (ie- hit locations), but it combines a lot of the
elements I like from AHL in an easy-to-follow T4 compatible format, which is a
big bonus.  With some slight simplifications, and the "Danger Space" rule
(where misses can nail bystanders in the line of fire) added back in, I plan 
to use this in my games (if and when I run another one, that is).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:28:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump Retrofits

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> To properly simulate this, you need to design an *intelligently*
> designed non-jump ship. One designed to make optimum use of all the
> internal space. Then try to shoehorn a J-drive into the hull. The
> disadvantages will appear! Either no cargo, or having to rip out the
> existing drive and power plant and replace them with smaller ones. Or
> some other compromise.

This is *exactly* what I had in mind.  I thought about the end of the Long
Night, and envisioned a star system inhabited by would-be Pocket Empire
founders - a system with balkanization in its very recent past, and so
close to the lower edge of Tech Level 9 that it still has plenty of
obsolete, but still operational, Tech Level 8 hardware in service.  Using
the old "Book 5: High Guard" rules (the only rules, alas, I have access to
right now), I put together an 800-ton, purely interplanetary "cruiser," 
with (nearly) top-of-the-line performance, albeit for Tech Level 8 (4-G
acceleration, an 88-ton maneuver drive).  Adding 200 tons of external fuel
tanks would bring the ship's total volume up to 1000 tons.  Its maximum
performance would drop to 3-G (a 3-G drive for a 1000-ton ship would
require 80 tons, a 4-G drive would require 110).  Installing a 20-ton jump
drive would allow this ship to make to 1-parsec jumps without refuelling
(and required sacrifices, in both the cargo hold and the ship's troops).

By ordinary high-tech standards, this wouldn't be a very impressive ship. 
On the other hand, even fledgling Pocket Empires have backwater star
systems which need to be patrolled, and even a chunky, sluggish,
make-shift vessel like this one can "keep the peace," and thus help
consolidate conquests, after the Empire's limited supply of "real"
starships has eliminated everything capable of putting up a fight. 
Basically, the ship's mission would be changed to accomodate the
compromises associated with its partial upgrade.  No, no sane government
would *design* their "patrol cruisers" this way,, but if they're
practically ready to go, it makes more sense than mothballs or the
scrapyard... 
                                                              - J.  Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:17:32 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <fuz@deltanet.com>
Subject: Where can one buy FS/M0?

Alas, I have fallen.  I used to hate those whiny messages asking where one
can buy the newest and greatest, and here I am posting one.

I have not been able to get ahold of IG to order directly, and the web page
does not yet offer the option to order FS/M0.  (To be fair, they did call
me back today about a message I left last Thursday, but I forgot to order.)

Gamesmanship, my usual source for new toys in the Southern Calif. area is
closed, and so I do not know who to get the cool toys from.

Anyone know a south Orange County game store that has stock?  Failing that,
anyone know a place that does mail order and that has stock?  I am quite
willing to go via IG, but they are rather busy folk over there.

Scott

- -------
fuz@deltanet.com.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:34:36 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Zhodani looks

At 08:24 pm 02/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>&Vilani: $11 \pm 1$&  $12 \pm 1$   & $11 \pm 1$\\
>&Zhodani: 2d6     &  $10 \pm 2$ & 9\\
>&Darrian: 2d6     &  $2 \pm 1$ & $ 3 \pm 1$\\
>&Solomani: 2d6-1  & 2d6 & 2d6+1\\
>\end{tabular}

	OK, I got the first part converted to a Word table, and I realize the '&'
represents a tab--what do the other codes mean ($11, 1$, \pm, $10, $2, etc.)?
- -- Dave Golden        http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:34:40 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: QSDS 1.5: Thruster prices

At 08:26 pm 02/18/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
>> > The thruster prices in QSDS 1.5 is 14 times higher
>> > than in QSDS 1.4. Is this a mistake?
>> 
>> I don't _think_ so; compare against the
>> thruster prices in SSDS.  I went over
>> the spreadsheets carefully, looking for
>> all of the "off-by-14" errors and trying
>> to fix them all for v1.5.
>
>I don't have SSDS, so I can't say about that. But compared to the thruster
>prices in Megatraveller it is a mistake. (I looked in FF&S, but couldn't find
>them there). Please think about this carefully. Upping the thruster prices by
>a factor 14 adds another hefty chunk to starship prices. And aren't they
>supposed to be an improvement over HEPlaR? I haven't made up an example yet,
>but I'm pretty sure that if they are that expensive, it becomes much more
>economic to use HEPlaR.

	Here's the "official" answer, at least from when we were creating
SSDS--thruster prices were to be 25% of the price listed in Fire Fusion &
Steel. Yes, they're very expensive. It was done deliberately. Thrusters are
more likely on military vessels. I can see many merchant ships going with
either no thrusters at all (relying strictly on HEPlaR/Fusion Drives and
ContraGrav), or with only 1G thruster and HEPlaR auxiliary boosters. And I
very definitely see military vessels carrying both.

	From FF&S, p73, thrusters cost MCr1 per cubic meter, so the SSDS/QSDS cost
should be MCr0.25 per cubic meter.

	So, yes, it may be more economical to use than HEPlaR. The advantage of
thrusters over HEPlaR was never supposed to be the cost, it was the
"unlimited" maneuver.
- -- Dave Golden        http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 20:58:43 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

On 02/18/97 at 04:58 PM,  Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU> said:

>  OK, this char-gen/tasks/experience thing seems to be working itself
> into a circle since somebody just advocated my original fix (2/3/4/5/6). 

I use 1/2/3/4/5/6, with 3d6 being average and 6d6 being virtually
impossible (staggering is a better term for what I mean).  I'd like to add
7d6 or 8d6 for just almost impossible, but that's a *lot* of dice.  <g>

> "Difficult" tasks become too hard for somewhat-lame characters, which I
> can believe.

Not the way William and Peter build characters...obviously, but they don't
like that.  <g> It works OK with my aptitude system too.  

>      As for character generation, I don't see any problems at all.  Sure,
> abuse can create super-characters, but what's new about that.  As my
> experience has shown (about a dozen characters) PCs will generally have
> one or two skills in the 4-5 range, a couple more 3s, and lots (~10)
> 1-2s.  

That's been my experience too, but it looks like that's not
universal.  If the players pick/pick, rather than roll/roll then I can see
them ending up with 4 or 5 *very* high level skills and bupkus everywhere
else.

I GM a couple of PBEM's and generating characters is a different thing
there, so is everything else for that matter.  <g> I have the player tell
me what kind of character they want and I try to generate someone like that
for them, but I insist on adding in some quirks too.  When I do CharGen
it's more a career template with added random skills and some quirkness the
player and I negotiate. I mean when you want a Starship Pilot, you want
Piloting and Astrogation, not Equestrian, and by golly you ought to get it,
but NOT levels like 6 or 7...unless you push up the dice levels.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:37:42 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Chadwick

From his activity on the Command Decision and Volley & Bayonet mailing
lists, I'd say Frank C. was working on the next version (ver. 3) of the
former and on expansions (1815 and 1809) for the latter...

At 12:36 PM 2/18/97 EST, you wrote:
>Does anyone know what Frank is up to these days?
>
>




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:12:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Mayday, anyone?

I normally wouldn't post a for sale, but Wargames west has a copy of
Mayday on the shelf for $8.  Anybody want a copy (I have one)?

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 19:49:32 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: Re: Starships Errata

Hello Hugh,
>
>   It's been a long night (no pun intended).  Could someone tell me if anyone
> has compiled a complete list of errata for SSDS?

  Yep, I have been compiling all those that I know of - have a look at

http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/Trav/SSDS/Errata.html

  I have yet to add the engineering crew one from digest 941 - I lost the 
file in my haste. Shouldn't be too long before it is there also.

>I meant to attach this to my previous post, sorry.  Too many thoughts, not
>enough sleep.

  Ah well, I hope you are able to catch up on it soon!

Enjoy,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:13:18 -0800
From: "Rob Gillingham" <Farpoint@netcom.ca>
Subject: Combat rules against robots/vehicles

i'm alittle confused on the combat rules in T4... i understand the chart
and how the armor works... but what i'm stuck on is the structural damage
can someone please explain this......  


				 Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 03:52:16 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes

> How about a system with 
> 
> 2 D Routine
> 3 D Difficult
> 4 D Formidable
> 5 D Staggering
> 6 D Impossible

I tried this before coming up with KBv1.1.  The curve is too steep.  
It is OK for higher numbers, but your characters will fail all the 
time with their lower level skills.  

When designing a task system, you have to watch out for both sides of 
the spectrum.

What was you objection ot KBv1.1 again?   I'd like to see why you 
don't like it.


> As a side note, folks actually *roll* their skills?   We've always picked 
> (with GM veto on munchkining).  I tend to start with a character concept, 
> the idea of having to revise that because the character's skills look 
> nothing like the concept sounds very annoying.

Roll skills?  I wouldn't have it any other way.  This is the way it 
was done in CT and MT.  Any other system is just not Traveller.

With D&D, you can pick your concept for a character.  In Traveller, 
we roll up the stats then start to discover who the character is.  
The char gen system gives you a skeleton and we put the flesh on it.

I think it is the best system for creating characters ever invented.

With the systems, like D&D, James Bond, or Star Trek, where you 
already know what type of character it will be before you roll him 
up, I began to find (eventhough some characters were highly creative) 
that my players kept repeating the same types of characters.  The 
Traveller system is like life.  You may start out one way (and even 
envision yourself that way), but you get thrown a curve ball.

Example.  Recently, I let one of my players roll up a second 
character.  Initially, his fuction was to be a body guard to the 
noble owner of the ship.  

For this role, the player wanted a bad ass mercenary character with a 
lot of combat skills.  Well, we rolled, and guess what.  He didn't 
make the enlistment throw in either the Army or Marines.

Damn.  So, the player decided that the character would be a cop.  He 
made the enlistment for Agent in the T4 main book, and we play him 
like a disillusioned looser who wasn't good enough to be in the 
Imperial Forces--he settled for a law enforcement job on his 
homeworld.  

This is like the guy who wanted his whole life to be an FBI agent, 
but failed to get accepted and relegated himself to the role of 
security guard.

You know what?  This character we rolled up, the cop, probably has 
more character and role play value now than he ever would have as an 
everyday regular mercenary bad ass.  And, my player probably would 
not have thought to play him that way.

Through the Traveller character gen process, my player is already 
attached to him before he started playing the character.  He has 
already lived with him before game session one.

Any system that can do that has my vote.

Heck, I've even thought of using it to create characters in stories 
that I write.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:06:35 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

> 	If charecters have more skill levels, each one will be worth less. 

Actually, I think the T4 char gen system fixes the problem associated 
with the old 4 year methods in CT and MT.  In those older systems, 
characters generated did not stand a chance compared to a character 
generated with a 1 year method (like in MT for Scouts, Merchants, etc 
or the CT Books 4-7).

I've created characters using T4 and compared them to characters that 
I created using mercenary, and you know what?  They were very 
compatible.  Totally skill levels was usually very close on 
comprobable characters--allowing for variance due to the dice throws.

This is something that I could never say about the 4 year character 
gen systems in CT and MT.

The problem that we are talking about is not the T4 char gen system.  
It is the experience system.  It is not just broken, but it is very 
broken.

If we fix that, then your characters will not be getting level 10 and 
up skills.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:14:25 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <mark@dk-online.dk>
Subject: NAS and psionic shields

18/2-97 Hugh Johnson wrote:

> 	This has probably been already discussed so I'm sorry if this is
redundant
> but I was wondering if a neural activity sensor could be blocked by a a
> psionic shield helmet or by the psionic talent: shield?  I'm working on a
> research facility that has NAS as part of its security net and wasn't
sure
> what the effects of the above would be.  Would the NAS register as blank
as
> described under life detection or would it detect the neural energy going
> into the shield?

As the NAS was developed from early psionic shield helmet technology, I've
always assumed that it detects psions (psionic elementary particles - not
canon, but see the HIWG working paper on the subject), and that's just what
the shield is blocking. In my campaign, everyone wearing a shield,
artificial or psionic, will simply not register on a NAS. Also, a shield
will serve as armor against neural weapons fire.

I don't think there's much canonical stuff about this subject, this is just
how it works in my campaigns, because this is what makes sense to me.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/Mark_Seemann/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:23:51 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

>      OK, this char-gen/tasks/experience thing seems to be working itself into a
> circle since somebody just advocated my original fix (2/3/4/5/6).  As I'm sure
> Kenneth Bearden will probably post sooner or later, that fix doesn't work as
> well as his (and now my) (2/2.5/3/4/5) because "Difficult" tasks become too
> hard for somewhat-lame characters, which I can believe.

Damn, Trent, you pegged me again.  I just got through expaining that 
in a post right before I opened your message.

Serendipity.


>      As for character generation, I don't see any problems at all.  

And, I just said that too.


Sure, abuse
> can create super-characters, but what's new about that.  As my experience has
> shown (about a dozen characters) PCs will generally have one or two skills in
> the 4-5 range, a couple more 3s, and lots (~10) 1-2s.  So, the typical PC
> (which, it's worth pointing out, is not necessarily the same thing as the
> typical NPC) will have at best something like Stat 13 Skill 5-- target 18 (or,
> if you use the KB version-- which I greatly prefer-- 17), which, even without
> the large CritFail chances, puts him below 50% success on "Impossible" tasks.

Ah, a target number of 17, under my system, has a 47.71% chance of 
success at an Impossible task to be exact (and thanks for the support 
for my system).
 
> Some people think that's too high, but rather than completely re-writing the
> task system, I think a better "fix" is to call it "Nearly Impossible" and 86
> that quote about this being hard for "the best in the galaxy". 


Here, here.  But think about this.  Level 5 is pretty doggone high.  
Maybe not the best in the galaxy, but certainly way up there.  Level 
5 skills don't grow on trees, and you still have less than a 50-50 
chance.

Look at this another way.  You have to get up to level 5 with a skill 
just to have a 50-50 shot with the Impossible.  That means those with 
less than level 5 will be closer to a really impossible chance.

 For
> completeness sake, we can include "Really Impossible" at 10D or something, but
> I can't imagine that 99% of us really need such a thing.

Wonderful idea.  There is nothing stopping from slapping more dice on 
the throw if the situation warrants.  If your player bitch, then use 
the tried and true approach--dunck a huge negative DM on the throw 
due to blah, blah, blah to get the target number down.

	"Yea, that's right.  It will be an Impossible task WITH a negative 
five DM.  Do you still want to try?"


> P.S. To Kenneth Bearden: After several months, I finally got around to printing
> up and reading your T4 combat system, and I like it.  A little more detailed in
> some places than I need/want (ie- hit locations), but it combines a lot of the
> elements I like from AHL in an easy-to-follow T4 compatible format, which is a
> big bonus.  With some slight simplifications, and the "Danger Space" rule
> (where misses can nail bystanders in the line of fire) added back in, I plan 
> to use this in my games (if and when I run another one, that is).

Glad to hear that.  Actually, though, the Danger Space rule is in 
there.  I just used the CT term instead of the MT one--Group Hits.  
Check it out.  I allotted for this.

As for the detail, I don't use it all myself.  I just like it there 
in case I need to refer to it for special circumstances.  Most 
situations are covered in some form or another in those rules, so 
when a special one arises, I know where to look.

Thanks for the kind words.  It is good to know that someone got some 
use out of that stuff.  That's what I posted it for.

Kenneth.
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #966
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 19 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 967



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4 Gripes
Swing to the Right
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: T4 Gripes
Crew Members on small ships.
Re: Where can one buy FS/M0?
Re: Traveller Question
Starship-V2 design spreadsheet is now available
Re: Zhodani looks
This one is a little late...II
Re: Steward requirements
Re: Swing to the Right
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: RoM / Second Imperium
M0 & FS:  My only Gripe

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:32:29 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes

> That 64.98% chance of success on an impossible task is the problem.
> It is the Whole problem, and nothing but the problem.

The guy's got a stat of level of 14--just one below human 
maximum--and a skill level of 6, twice the equivalent skill that a 
doctor has.  Some characters never even see a level 6 skill.

What kind of a percentage would you give this character on an 
Impossible task.  I'm just curious.


> Also, Under MT as written I frequently encountered characters that could
> not make ANY impossible tasks, and some that could not make them even with
> extra time....

Actually, in MT, natural boxcars always hit, so every character has 
at least a 2.7 % chance of success even if he wasn't skilled.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 05:36:42 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: Swing to the Right

Greetings:

So Grandfather Miller will explain away the great sector shift in a 
Forthcoming Chapter of the Saga? Good--but checking the schedule it 
appears to be faaarrrr away (sound of teeth grinding). How about a hint, 
Marc?????????

Grumble, grumble.

Film recommendations: While you are all watching the new editions of Star 
Wars you might want to check out the films of Akira Kurosawa. His "The 
Hidden Fortress" is definately an inspiration for Star Wars: The New 
Hope. "The Seven Samurai" has been remade at least twice (the second time 
that I know of was a Roger Corman SF flick). And there's much more. I'm 
thinking of dropping a middle ages Japan in one of the "reserved for your 
use" sectors...



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:57:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

In mail you write:

> Shadow writes
>
>>In mail you write:
>>> According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
>>> have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that.
>>You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
>>navigators.
>
> But, in the Real World, airplanes *don't* need navigators any more; 
> the navigator seat on an airplane was pretty much gone by the 1980,
> with the advent of decent computers and decent electronic navigation aides
> (even before there was GPS.) 

They still *need* navigators. They just don't have a *dedicated*
navigator position. And there are folks pointing out that it's a false
savings, as a lot of expensive problems come from either trusting the
flight planning software too much, or not knowing how to properly use
it.

Space navigation is rather more complex.

> In realspace, the pilot of a traveller ship almost certainly does all the 
> navigation tasks Leonard referes to too - calculating the course, 
> checking to make sure you haven't violated any traffic regulations, etc.
> What else is there for a pilot to do in a non-combat/non-landing situation?
> It's not like the pilot has to sit with his hands on the steering wheel all
> the time...

Depends on what sort of course he's planning on following. If it's a
constant vector, constant boost, run to the 100 diameter limit, that's
not a problem. More likely, he's going to have to change vector several
times, so as to avoid having vector pointing towards things that won't
like it (Most military ships and installations will get *real* jumpy if
your "instantaneous" vector intercepts their future position. Ditto for
vectors that come too close in space or time). And even civilian pilots
would rather not have a vector that would run them into something if
the engine failed (ie you have to keep asking yourself "will I hit
something if the engine cuts out at any point along this course"). So
that puts some extra constraints one course vectors.

> I tend to assume the astrogator deals *only* with jump navigation, and
> that it's a moderately complicated job, requiring several hours of 
> calculation.

Realspace navigation isn't "trivial". :-)

> It certainly could be combined with piloting on a small starship, though - 
> the only disadvantage would be (a) a pilot/navigator combo might not have
> as high a skill in either as a pair of speciallists, and (b) if you get into
> combat, you won't be able to jump out, as your pilot will be too busy 
> piloting to navigate.

As someone else pointed out, if you are doing both jobs, you don't get
your bonuses. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:45:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> You need an astrogator for the same reason ships and planes need
>> navigators. Real-space *and* jump-space both require some moderately
>> complex calculations to avoid wasting fuel or running into things.
>
> [regretfully snipping an excellent discourse - I really like the way Mr.
> Erickson thinks!]

I just wish I could locate a book I read back in the 60s. It was a
discussion of spacetravel, including astrogation and combat! The
discussion of astrogation is *still* valid (from what I can recall of
it). The combat discussions are ok, except for the understandable
mistake of assuming that directed energy weapons were impossible. It'd
be an invaluable aid for GMs and players.

Look for Lee Corey's "Manna" for a good description of what "space
traffic control" around a busy planet might be like. It has a sequence
where a pilot has to take up a ship during a "period of increased
tensions", and winds up invoking the obscure rule that says he is
taking full responsibility for his ship's course and detecting and
avoiding any hazards. It's a *very* tense flight from the ground to
geosynchronous orbit.

It also describes the fun of varying "restricted zones", civilian
flights and satellites, military flights and satellites, and the like.
Correy (a pen name for G. Harry Stine, a well known areospace writer)
gets the feel of things across nicely. Probably from his own
experiences as a private pilot.

> Another factor in your decision should be this.  The Nav-computer is going
> to set up and execute your jump.  Pretty much anyone can set up the basic
> jump variables that will get you from system A to system B.  However, the
> Nav computer is going to select from a pre-determined number of points for
> both the J-drive entry and exit points (based on a complex algorithm using
> your launch date and time to ensure no two spacecraft select the same
> points) as well as determining your entry and exit vectors.  This would be
> mandated not only for traffic control purposes, but also (in case of
> emergency) to ease the complexity of a search and rescue mission.
>
> Unfortunately, it's also a fact of life that the algorithm has been hacked
> into tiny little pieces, and if someone knows when a ship is scheduled to
> jump, then someone can place their ship in the approximate location (on
> either end of the jump) for interception.
>
> How can this be avoided?  By using the 'for advanced users only' features
> of the Navigation/Astrogation software and inputting vector overrides and
> coordinate off-sets!  Who can do this?  Only a astrogator who has time to
> sit down and work with the navigation system.
>
> Or go buy a customized navigation program...

Another trick is to use the regular jump "point", but with a high
velocity vector in a random direction. That makes matching course with
you a pain.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:22:19 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> >      OK, this char-gen/tasks/experience thing seems to be working itself into a
> > circle since somebody just advocated my original fix (2/3/4/5/6).  As I'm sure
> > Kenneth Bearden will probably post sooner or later, that fix doesn't work as
> > well as his (and now my) (2/2.5/3/4/5) because "Difficult" tasks become too
> > hard for somewhat-lame characters, which I can believe.
> 
> Damn, Trent, you pegged me again.  I just got through expaining that
> in a post right before I opened your message.
> 
> Serendipity.
> 
[snippe-di-doo-dah ...]

Sorry to mix in you discussion. I may sound like a lamer, but I never
think about terms like "routine or difficult" when it comes to rolling
dices.
For me, the number of dices is just a way of "making it physically
touchable" how tough a problem is for the players. And of course I
always look how talented the player are, that try the task, to find out
the appropriate number of dices.

So I tend to do things more intuitively. Of course, if you are not
careful, you can run into discontinuity with a thing like that. So it
could happen, that a player sais:
"Hey, that's not fair! When I tried this task before, I needed to roll
just two dices. Now I have to roll three"
But I think, that's a problem, one has with every task system. Or do YOU
know (after a few evenings of game), what difficulty a task had, which
you gave the players at the beginning of the campaign? Well, you can BET
on the fact, that the player knows it very well. :-)

Just my 2 Groschen (as we don't have cents in Austria)

CyA
Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:26:38 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> Actually, in MT, natural boxcars always hit, so every character has
> at least a 2.7 % chance of success even if he wasn't skilled.
> 

...actually a thing, which I play in T4 similarily. It's only natural,
that a character solves a problem accidentially. But of course, I alway
do think of a possebility of what could happen if the player fails. This
often keeps players off doing things, they shouldn't do.

Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:42:28 -0500
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Crew Members on small ships.

Hi,
There has been alot of talk about the SSDS/QSDS rule that shiops under
200 tons can be run by just two people.  I have been thinking about this,
and I think that you can do this, but performance will suffer.
The best example of this is the Millenium Falcon in Stars Wars
Everyso often Han Solo (the pilot) has to stop flying the ship,and
run down and try to fix the engines.  When the ship  is attacked by 
TIE fighters, he has to go man a turret. Also one of the passengers 
mans the other turret. (Luke Skywalker)

This is how I envision the Far Traders that only have two crew members.
THey are constantly running from task to task, they never have enough
time to do proper maintenance and they are always having breakdowns.

In FFS, the numbers of hours of maintence that a given ship needed
was computed based on its mass.  For the Far Trader I built for
THUDD, it was about 120 hours.  It is true that FFS was built
around Low Automation, so some kind of factor has to be used
to reduce this.  Hmmm I guess you can use the same factor that is
used to reduce maintence staff.  

So, I wouldn't allow heavily armed ships to get away with only
two crew members.  You can put a very small spinal mount in
a 200 ton ship, It doesn't make sense that this could be fired
by the same guy who is piloting the ship.  

I would also not allow Low Automation ships to get away with only 
2 people. They would require the computed number of crew members.
Otherwise all ships below 200 tons would be built with low automation.
And this doesn't really make sense.

Lewis Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:11:04 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Where can one buy FS/M0?

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Scott Ellsworth wrote:

> Anyone know a south Orange County game store that has stock?  Failing that,
> anyone know a place that does mail order and that has stock?  I am quite
> willing to go via IG, but they are rather busy folk over there.

I don't live in Orange County, but I can say that stores may not have 
them yet.  In the past, IG would send the books to distributors first, 
then send books to those who had ordered direct.  Recently they changed 
this policy, and send books to those who order direct first, followed by 
sending them to distributors.  Thus, those who ordered direct get their 
books before anyone else does.

So, the few who have mentioned having M0 and First Survey ordered 
direct.  They should be in stores shortly, but it may be that they still 
haven't reached retailers at this point.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:40:01 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller Question

Zhodani agents report that sturm wrote:

- -> Hi,
- -> 
- -> I have been a big Traveller fan for years and was wondering if any
- -> computer game computer had the rights to produce RPG's set in the
- -> Traveller universe.
- -> 
There have been two Computer Games in the Early nineties by Paragon 
Software, with the plot written by MWM. The storyline is quite nice, 
although not always canonical (Ancients Sites differ!!), but the 
gameplay needs getting used to. I liked them very much though.
Anyway, the names:
Megatraveller I, "The Zhodani Conspiracy" and 
II, "The quest for the Ancients"
They both have the MegaTraveller Chargen Procedure completely 
integrated, so there's another reason to check them out!
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:50:50 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Starship-V2 design spreadsheet is now available

	Starship-V2 design spreadsheet is now available


	What is it?

	Starship-V2 [SS2] is Excel 5 (PC/Win) multi-page spreadsheet 
	for Traveller starship design. It is available in a zipped 
	packet, ss-v2.zip, which contains SS-V2.XLS, SSW-V1.XLS, 
	STARSHIP.TXT, SS2-WALK.TXT and WEAPONS.TXT files.


       What they can do?

	SS-V2.XLS is a starship design spreadsheet which contains all 
	needed FFS tables. Needed starship components are selected from 
	pull-down menus, and the final ship data is shown in "Brilliant 
	Lances", "Battle Rider" and "T4 USP" formats. The ship data can 
	be transferred into text file simply by cut-and-paste.

       SSW-V1.XLS is starship weapon design spreadsheet which contains
       all needed FFS tables. It can be used to design lasers, particle
       accelerators and meson guns.  Weapon options and components are
       selected from pull-down menus, and the final weapon data is
       shown in "Brilliant Lances", "Battle Rider" and T4 formats. 
       The weapon data can be copied into STARS-V1.XLS weapon table.

	STARSHIP.TXT is a short readme-file for SS-V2.XLS.

	SS2-WALK.TXT is a simple SS2 starship design walkthrough.

	WEAPONS.TXT is a short readme-file for SSW-V1.XLS. 
	SSW-V2 is now under construction, so this file is still 
	incomplete. 


       What are the design limits?

	The minimum Tech Level is 8. There isn't any improvements in 
	technology after TL-21.

       When the hull displacement is over 100000000 DT, the Excel will
       become more difficult to read when the values are displayed as
       as 1E+08. While it is still possible to design ships that are
       larger than sun, the jump ships are limited by the increasing
       surface area requirements.
 

	How does SS2 differ from QSDS and SSDS?

	Instead of using pre-designed "off-the-shelf" standard
	component packages, SS2 allows the designer to use broader
	selection of components and create tailored ships.

	The density of all components are not the same, and the actual
	mass of a starship will depend on the selected components. The
	average starship density will be somewhere between 15 and 0.07
	ton/m3. Since [ acceleration [G] = thrust / mass ], a heavy
	battle rider will require much more thrust per volume than a
	light tanker.
	SS2 calculates the actual average density of the ship, and
	allows the user to change the density estimate which is used
	in thruster design process. (I had to use separate "actual
	density" and "estimated density" values, since Excel does not
	support recursion.)
	Note that QSDS thrusters are calculated by assuming that the
	average density of starship is ~0.71 ton/m3 (10 ton/DT).


	Where SS2 can be found?

	SS2 can be downloaded from my Web page at

	http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen/Traveller/ss-v2.zip


       Why it was made?

	Originally I was trying to make a QSDS starship hull designer,
       but the project spontaneously expanded. I felt that QSDS was too
       limited, and so I expanded the original spreadsheet to include
       more and more starship components.
       After I put the first version on my web page, several persons
       mailed me suggestions how to improve it, and the improved
	spreadsheet was called Starship-V1.

	So far I have received over 200 comments, suggestions and 
	bug reports, and after frustrating bug-fixing I decided to 
	rebuild most of the spreadsheet. The result is Starship-V2.


       Is it final version?

       No. Nothing is ever final.



        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:41:14 -0500 (EST)
From: pierre-louis constantin <Pierre-Louis.Constantin@DMI.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: Zhodani looks

Dave J. Golden asks about the \pm symbol in my humaniti looks table.
 
"\pm" is used for the symbol "plus or minus", and the $ just mean
that it's a math symbol, so you should basically have the following
rolls for the zhodani:  Eye color: 2d6, Hair color: 10 +- 2 (meaning
in my mind, 8,9,10,11,12) and skin tone: 9.
 
I'll put the table in HTML format on my own page as soon as I figure
out how to do tables - shouldn't take long. :)


- -- 
Pierre-Louis Constantin, ift. a. 	"He whose name was writ in E-mail."
(: "I hate fanatics with a passion; all extremists should be shot." :)
	    How's my surfing? http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~constanp/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:54:26 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: This one is a little late...II

        But I figured that I might as well throw it out for THUDDD voting
anyhow.  Enjoy, people.

        Wups... forgot the ship.  D'oh!



This ship was designed using QSDS 1.5 and the Huge list of ship hulls on
Wildstars web page.

Chief Designer - Colin Hollands
Chief Accountant - Dave Marsden



Ridcully Class Far Trader

Tons: 200Std Wedge S 6G max             Volume: 1048m^3 Cost: 88.665Mcr
Crew: 3                         High/Mid Pass: 6        Low: 0
Cargo: 80Std                            Controls: Civilian Improved TL12

Size: USD 8                             2 Jump (46Std with Fuel)
                                        3G Maneuver (Thruster Plate, 154Mw)
Civilian Laser TL12 (0)1/2 0 0 0        2 Power plant (TL12 Vol 7.1 & 1.8 250Mw)
                                        1 Fuel Scoop 80 Tons/H, Refine 5tons/H
                                        1 Sandcaster (30 Cans)
                                        A2 P3 J0 Sensors
                                        20 Armour 12 Structure

Crew Detail: 1 Pilot/Astrogater, 1 Engineer, 1 Medic/Gunner/Steward

Pilot has 1 small stateroom to him/herself
Engineer and medic share a small stateroom when other six staterooms are full
else they have one each.

6 staterooms for Mid passengers

This ship is designed to be as economical to run as possible and make a profit

A downpayment of 17.733Mcr
Monthly Mortgage Payments of 0.37Mcr
more realistic Mortgage payment is ((ship_cost - 20%_downpayment)/240)
which is 0.29Mcr
Monthly Crew Salary of 0.014Mcr
Monthly Life Support of 0.016Mcr
Monthly Maintenance of 0.0074Mcr

Giving a Total Monthly Expenditure of 0.4074Mcr on first Rule
or ((ship_cost - 20%_downpayment)/240) = 0.327Mcr

At 100% Capacity

80Std Cargo @ 4000Cr/Ton is 0.32Mcr
6 Mid Pass @ 8000Cr Ech is 0.048Mcr

On first rule there is a short fall of 0.0394Mcr
On my rule there is a profit of 0.0406Mcr

The only way this ships would make a decent profit would be with
speculative trade

All comments on this design will be much appreaciated

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:36:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Steward requirements

Hi.

Stewards are required according to T4 rules, but there is no mention of
them in the list of crewmember salaries in the "starship expenses"
tables. According to CT, they get paid Cr3000 per month. Why were they
deleted from T4?

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:06:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Swing to the Right

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 FKiesche@concentric.net wrote:

> "The Seven Samurai" has been remade at least twice (the second time 
> that I know of was a Roger Corman SF flick). 

It was called (at least in the Video copy I rented) "World Gone Mad",
starring Bruce Dern as a (surprise surprise!!) Non-psycho but still wacked
out survivor of WWIII who. And if memory serves, and I'm not thinking of
ANOTHER post-nuclear holocaust movie, it also stars Adam Ant as the head
bad guy. A delightfully bad, low budget flick, wallowing in it's B-ness as
all Corman efforts, but is more directly a homage to "The Magnificent
Seven" than the "Seven Samurai", so it's a remake of a remake. Of course,
since the "Seven Samurai" was _Kurosawa's_ homage to the great American
westerns, the trail of influence is even greater.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:18:58 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

>For me, the number of dices is just a way of "making it physically
>touchable" how tough a problem is for the players. And of course I
>always look how talented the player are, that try the task, to find out
>the appropriate number of dices.
>
>So I tend to do things more intuitively. Of course, if you are not
>careful, you can run into discontinuity with a thing like that. So it
>could happen, that a player sais:
>"Hey, that's not fair! When I tried this task before, I needed to roll
>just two dices. Now I have to roll three"
>But I think, that's a problem, one has with every task system. Or do YOU
>know (after a few evenings of game), what difficulty a task had, which
>you gave the players at the beginning of the campaign? Well, you can BET
>on the fact, that the player knows it very well. :-)

This sound an awful lot like CT style gaming that went something like:
"Taking into account your skills, charactersitics and the situation you'll
need to roll . . . 8+ on 2D6"
Basically, the reason why Tasks have names is that it enables the GM to select
the appropriate task levele WITHOUT knowing the skills etc of the player.

A task system should work like this:
A character wants to do something, the GM thinks about how hard it would
normally be for a normally skilled person (in real life(TM) if possible)
and sets the basic task level whose
name should reflect the difficulty at hand ie Very easy, Easy, Average,
Hard, Very hard.
For example it is very ease to drive a car but maybe it's easy to pocket
park it.
After the GM has decided this he will add any adverse task level modifier
for bad weather etc.
The reason there cannot be any "Impossible" task levels is simply that
impossible means that they cannot be made no matter what. Bad choice of
word. Also, there should probably be no more than 5 levels as more would be
too hard to differentiate between. Quick now, is overtaking a taxi a
"Slightly more than semihard" or just "Semihard"?
Another thing is that ALL tasks should be possible to suceed and fail at no
matter the skill level AND the sucess propability should decrease when
skill goes up et c. I hate stupid rules like snake-eyes always fails,
boxcars always succeed. Finally task systems based on rolling different
number of dice for different task levels fail because Critical
success/Critical failure generally gets more common as the difficulty
increase 'coz the spread of results widen when the number of dice goes up.

Can't somebody stop this raging lunatic and make him(me) shut up?
Well, I'm shutting up for now but the above are my requirements on a
useable task system. If somebody is interested I'll write down how it works.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:33:23 -0500 (EST)
From: SirBStard@aol.com
Subject: Re: RoM / Second Imperium

In a message dated 97-02-18 16:42:28 EST, Dom Mooney writes:

<< Anyone know what TL the Second Imperium got to? I'd like to include a
relic
 ship in an adventure, and haven't seen ( & can't recall seeing) anything
 about how far the Terrans got in out teching the Vilani.
 
 (Yes, I know I asked this before, but it got lost in the noise!)
 
     -Dom Mooney- dom@cybergoths.u-net.com
 ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>

 According to information gained from CT Supplement 11 (Library Data N-Z) the
Terrans had Jump-3 by the 8th war of the Nth Interstellar War. This leads me
to guess it has at least TL 12.

  Keith :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:47:56 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: M0 & FS:  My only Gripe

Well, sine the complaint about the missing deckplan has already been
registered, I have only one gripe each for the M0/FS release.

FS:  Where are the subsector names???

M0:  Where is the Character Generation info for either Vilani, Solomani, or
Vargr???

I'm very pleased with what I've seen so far.  I don't have the books with
me, but here is a little review:

FS:
Summary:  Intro Text, Maps for 9 sectors along with both player listings and
referee listings of the UWP's.  Player listings only include partial UWP's
while the referee listing includes all the relevent extended UWP info.

Positive:  I like the fact that 3 Sectors were left blank, and I like the
player vs. referee UWP listings.  The text intro is very nice.  It is short
and gives a few ideas about how to implement the different maps and listings
into games.

Negative:  I really wish the book had included Subsector names for the
subsectors.  I think the book would have been slightly more useable had it
included only 9 sectors (with 2 left blank).  The additional pages could
have been used to give one or two detailed planetary write-up (in official
IISS format) as well as a few notes on the worlds officially in the Third
Imperium on day one.

Overall Score: 8.5 out of 10

M0: (I'm only just into the reading of the book, but I have scanned the pages)
Summary: See Stu Dollar's excellent summary post.

Positive:  The writing is very good and the material (so far) is helpful in
understanding what the background is all about.  Sidebars are helpful and
relevant.  Not too many pictures, but they seem to be relevant.  (As a side
note, I thought the cover art was extremely appropriate with the recent
discussion of the Vilani and Ancient Sumer.)

Negative:  One of the first things I noticed was the absence of the
deckplans.  Also absent is a NPC write-up on the main players in the early
Imperium.  I would have liked to have seen this on at least Cleon if no one
else.  I'm not too fond of the font choice, but I don't have any alternative
ideas (I don't even know why I don't like it for sure).

Overall Score: 8.5 out of 10

Comments:  Frankley, I'm pleased with the continuing improvements of IG.
The main book was poor, then the Starships debacle hurt a lot of the
excitement I felt.  CSC and Aliens seemed to overcome the editing nightmare,
but there was little background info for the M0 setting and the few problems
of dates in Aliens.  M0 and FS seem to have taken another step in the
process, and they do fill the setting void quite nicely.


Finally, just to share the only nightmare I had while reading so far.  After
perusng the pictures in the book, I began reading the first section (after a
tad too much Star Trek probably) and I was dismayed by the vision of a
Klingon Cleon extolling the virtues of honor to the people around him. :)
Like I said, a nightmare!!!

Paul {tiger}
tiger@goldinc.com
http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #967
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 19 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 968



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Why the Universe Changed (core sector)
Re: [TML] ISBA
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Jump grid and other surface features
Traveller Vehicles
Re:T4 Gripes
re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: M0 & FS: My only Gripe
Re: T4 gripes...
Re: T4 Char Gen
Ti fuel blocks idea

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Why the Universe Changed (core sector)

In-Reply-To: <97Feb17.092917est.5392@postoffice.theiia.org>

<< 6)  there is NO number 6! >>

I am not a number, I am a free trader!

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] ISBA

In-Reply-To: <199702170607.BAA10950@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

<< I routinely trash EVERYthing that has a B5
subject header (no disrespect to the B5ers out there - I'm just not a 
fan... >>

I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you get well soon...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 18:05 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In-Reply-To: <970216.092144.4y0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

<< Oh yeagh, if you engage the drive at 10 diameters, don't forget that
gives a *large* chance for a misjump. It's even *possible* to engage
the drive on the ground. But the odds are little better than suicide
(anybody got them handy?) >>

My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very* 
unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to 
survive. They rolled a 12.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:05:57 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:13:20 -0500, you wrote:

> Battlestar was a good kids show.  B5 is not a kids show.
> Battlestar had one major redeming feature.  Jane Seymour.
> Once they killed her off...

Hey!  What about the actress that played Athena?  In our little gaming
group, we all agree that Starbuck must have been "one thruster short"
to avoid her and chase after Casseopia (sp?).  Come on... Athena was
hot, had a real job, and was the daughter of the fleet Admeral to
boot!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:46:50 GMT
From: starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf)
Subject: Jump grid and other surface features

This is probably late, but then again I'm a slow reader at times. I
have noticed as most you that the surface area of the jumpdrive eats
away available space as the drives and ships gets larger. Just because
of this I have decided that (in my campaign) the grid is underneath
the hull surface. Thus not taking up valuable space. The reason to
this is that the grid doesn't have any surface hit location. And from
what I can understand from SOpM the grid creates a force field that
extends out from the hull. And probalby through it. I there was some
references to the jump space comming into the ship at places where the
grid had failed.

I did also like the proposition someone had on PP radiators. Beaming
the waste heat away sounds neat, and lowers the IR signature and saves
on this precious surface area.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Myhre                 |"Never worry about theory as long as the=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf | machinery does what it's supposed to do."
Universal Internet          |
            Number: 127772  |                  -- R. A. Heinlein

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:42:37 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Traveller Vehicles

- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15158.emout19.mail.aol.com.856381353
Content-ID: <0_15158_856381354@emout19.mail.aol.com.116626>
Content-type: text/plain

When I read through the chapter on vehicles, I find them less than
satisfying, primarily because they require some work by the referee or the
player before they can be used. I would like to create a set of Vehicle
cards, each with entries on basic data. When a group uses a vehicle, they
would consult the card which would tell them basic performance data, etc.

The following vehicles are a fair sampling of what we can expect to find in
operation within and around the Imperium. These are the standard vehicles
based on official Imperial plans or templates or available models. Limited
variations to these designs are tolerated to allow local manufacture.
All Imperial vehicles operate using fusion plus; they can operate on airless
worlds. Unless specifically stated, the interior of the vehicle is not sealed
for airless worlds, and occupants would need to wear vacc suits on such
worlds.

A vehicle card draft layout is attached as a Word for Windows 95 file.

These are the data fields I envision for the vehicles.

Vehicle
MCr
Environment
L
W
H
Mass
Endurance
Speed1Max
Speed1Cruise
Speed1Min
Speed2Max
Speed2Cruise
Speed2Min
Reliability
FuelType
Accomodations1
Accomodations2
Accomodations3
Armor
Cargo
Skill
Comment1
Comment2
Comment3

This is a list of the vehicles I envision being covered to begin.

Motorcycle1200Atm 2-920.514006 hours100
4 Wheel Rider
Utility Vehicle 4pass
Utility Vehicle 6pass
Truck 2 ton
Truck 5 ton
Truck 10 ton
ATV Wheeled
ATV Tracked
Tank Light Tracked
Tank Medium Tracked
Tank Heavy Tracked
Tank Vheavy Tracked
ATV Legged
Troop Carrier Squad
Troop Carrier 2 Squad
Prime Mover Tracked
Prime Mover Wheeled
Recovery Wheeled
Recovery Tracked
Command Wheeled
Command Tracked
Car / Sedan
Car / Limousine
Dirtmover Tracked
Trailer Wheeled
Trailer Tacked
Grav Tank Light
Grav Tank Medium
Grav Tank Heavy
Grav Troop Carrier Squad
Grav Troop Carrier 2 Squad
Grav Cargo Carrier 2 ton
Grav Cargo Carrier 5 ton
Grav Cargo Carrier 10 ton
Grav Rider 1pass
Grav Rider 2pass
Grav Speeder Coupe
Grav Speeder Sedan
Grav Platform Fighter
Gtrailer
Module Artillery Light
Module Artillery Medium
Module Artillery Heavy
Module Rocket Launcher Multi
Module Missile Launcher SSM
Module Missile Launcher SAM
Module Air Defense
Module Sensor Various
Module Quarters Portable
Module Command Post
Aircraft Utility FWP Regional Subsonic
Aircraft Cargo FWP Regional Subsonic
Aircraft Passenger FWP Regional Subsonic
Aircraft Utility FWJ Regional
Aircraft Cargo FWJ Regional
Aircraft Passenger FWJ Regional
Aircraft Utility Helicopter Regional
Aircraft Cargo Helicopter Regional
Aircraft Passenger Helicopter Regional
Aircraft Utility FWP Continental
Aircraft Cargo FWP Continental
Aircraft Passenger FWP Continental
Aircraft Utility FWJ Continental
Aircraft Cargo FWJ Continental
Aircraft Passenger FWJ Continental
Aircraft Utility Helicopter Continental
Aircraft Cargo Helicopter Continental
Aircraft Passenger Helicopter Continental
Aircraft Utility FWP Global
Aircraft Cargo FWP Global
Aircraft Passenger FWP Global
Aircraft Utility FWJ Global
Aircraft Cargo FWJ Global
Aircraft Passenger FWJ Global

I invite your comments on these vehicles and on the concept.

Marc Miller



- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15158.emout19.mail.aol.com.856381353
Content-ID: <0_15158_856381354@emout19.mail.aol.com.116627>
Content-type: application/octet-stream;
	name="UVD.DOC"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15158.emout19.mail.aol.com.856381353--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:07:55 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re:T4 Gripes

>In my game, skills would never reach level 12 because the character
>would be dead by that time.  As I said to you before, I have never
>seen a level 8 skill in my games, and only one level 7.
>
>I think the xp system is broken, but from what I've gathered about
>T4, the skill levels have about the same value as they did in MT and
>CT.  This level 12 stuff is TNE thinking.
>
>How do I back that up?  Well, all the things about T4 are basically
>the CT rules with a few tweaks here and there--not the TNE rules.
>And MT was just another tweaking of the CT rules.  I think that CT
>and MT are fairly compatible with T4 (and I sometimes make TNE stuff
>compatible too, but it takes more work).

Well, some comparison notes on skill levels per term, base plus bonuses:
CT: 1-2 per term, +1 per each: Commission, Promotion
	range 1-4 per term
MT: 1-2 per term, +1-2 each: Commission, Promotion, SplDuty
	1-8 per term, normally 2-4 per term
TNE: 1-4 per term, doubled on Special duty, plus 1 each for commission and
promotion.
	1-10 per term, diminishing with age, weighting out to 2-6 per term
T4: 4-6 per term, +1 each: Commission, Promotion, Special Duty
	4-7 per term (careers with 6 base don't have Commission/Promo).

this shows clearly that MTis roughly 1.5 times CT, TNE is double CT, and T4
is expected result of 6 per term, putting it over MT or CT by 1.5 - 2
times; and t4 is on par with TNE for skill levels. Also, TNE assets are on
par with, or slightly lower than, t4 assest, due to easier methods of stat
gain and higher starting atts (1 pt).


William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:03:49 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Crew requirements - a question

>> In realspace, the pilot of a traveller ship almost certainly does all the 
>> navigation tasks Leonard referes to to
>Depends on what sort of course he's planning on following. If it's a
>constant vector, constant boost, run to the 100 diameter limit, that's
>not a problem. More likely, he's going to have to change vector several
>times, so as to avoid having vector pointing towards things that won't
>like it
>...
  
I still maintain that it's the pilot that's going to do these things, not
the navigator - otherwise there's nothing for a pilot to *do* in non-landing
situations - or do you think that union rules require the navigator to calculate
whether the course is going to hit someone and the pilot to input the new
course into the ship?

(And, in the real world, it's going to be computers that perform these
calculations, not people, and *anyone* will be able to use the computers -but
Traveller is admittedly a low-automation universe.)

>[aircraft] still *need* navigators. They just don't have a *dedicated*
>navigator position.
My point would be that on modern aircraft the navigation job is sufficiently
low-workload that the pilot/copilot can do it; similarly, the realspace
navigation job on a starship is so simple that the pilot does it. (Or, 
alternatively, the piloting job is so simple in realspace that the pilot has
plenty of time to navigate.)

> And there are folks pointing out that it's a false
>savings, as a lot of expensive problems come from either trusting the
>flight planning software too much, or not knowing how to properly use
>it.

I'd like to see a reference - the airlines seem pretty happy with 2-seat
aircraft (at least to the extent that all the new designs like the 777
and the 737-600/700/800 are 2-seat), and the FAA is sufficiently happy with
planning software that (under pressure from the airlines) they're
transitioning to free-flight (aircraft pick their own routes) rather than
old-fashioned aircraft-fly-along-airways navigation.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:17:16 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: M0 & FS: My only Gripe

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Paul Walker wrote:

> Well, sine the complaint about the missing deckplan has already been
> registered, I have only one gripe each for the M0/FS release.
> 
> FS:  Where are the subsector names???

Can't answer that one.


> M0:  Where is the Character Generation info for either Vilani, Solomani, or
> Vargr???

Marc's original outline called for none of the above.  CORE decided that 
putting in chargen and data for Vargr made sense, and in fact was pretty 
important to the M0 setting.  Someone along the line decided to remove 
that portion of the book and replace it with the TML-generated "Rumors" 
chapter.  I can only assume the decision was made for the best, and that 
we'll have a Vargr alien module sometime soon.  Regardless, since Marc's 
outline didn't call for a Vargr alien module, I can only say that whoever 
made the decision to axe that section was perfectly within their rights 
to do so, whether I agree with it or not.  That is, I'm not bitching 
about our work being changed per se; I just wish Vargr info had been 
included for those who don't have the previously-published material.

As for Vilani chargen, I was told long ago that the standard chargen 
process applies to them.  I assume the same goes for Solomani, but I 
don't know.


> Finally, just to share the only nightmare I had while reading so far.  After
> perusng the pictures in the book, I began reading the first section (after a
> tad too much Star Trek probably) and I was dismayed by the vision of a
> Klingon Cleon extolling the virtues of honor to the people around him. :)
> Like I said, a nightmare!!!

ROFLMAO. :)


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:32:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: T4 gripes...

The reason I don't like 5D for Impossible tasks is that they are still far
to easy.  With a Skill of 6 (quite high, but possible) and a
characteristic of 12 (also quite possible) you've got a total of 18. That
gives you an over 50% chance of succeeding at an impossible task. 

I tend to see impossible tasks as really quite extreme.  Basically,
anything more difficult I simply do not allow character to attempt. 

A good example would be "While hanging upside-down on a ladder, held on
with my legs hooked through the runs of the ladder, with a flashlight held
in one hand and a pistol in the other, can I shoot the dimly lit moving
shape in the warehouse below."  (A edited version of an actual in-game
event).  *No one* should have a 50% chance to succeed here, it takes all
the fun out of it.  20-25% is the absolute maximum I'd want for this. 
Similarly, as someone mentioned earlier, Impossible fast talk rolls get
damn silly if they can be made 40-50% of the time (and 40% only takes a
skill of 5 and a stat of 12). 

The fact that difficult tasks become... well... difficult for PCs with
more average totals is a bit of a flaw, but not as much of a problem as
easy Impossible tasks.  My best fix (and the one I now use) is the MT task
system, it doesn't have any of these bugs in it. 


- -John jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:41:24 -0800
From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Char Gen

One thing about T4 Char Gen is that it was left such that you could
generate characters with any style of choice.

My favorite house rule for Character Generation is this.

Attr:  Roll 12 dice and pair them to 6 attributes.

Skill:  Take the number of skills recieved and divide by 2 (rounding 
down).  This is the number of skills that can *picked*.  All 	others
must be rolled totally random (EG.  Roll for which table 	and then again
for the skill)
	
	*picked*  ==> Any skill or cascade may be chosen.  (NOT AN 		Attribute
increase or decrease).  

In this way you can have a basic concept in mind for the character and
have your character come out resembling the concept but still allow for
the *random* events in life. 

Brad Urwiller
ravyn@ptw.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 16:31:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Ti fuel blocks idea

  It's been said here (with what level of accuracy, I don't
  know) that a given volume of titanium can hold about ten times
  as much hydrogen as an equal volume of empty space.  Working
  from there:

        How fast can you get that hydrogen into and out of the
        block, and under what conditions?

        If the I/O speed of Ti is sufficient to allow it to be
        used as primary fuel storage, then this should be the
        canonical method of fuel storage, as it would permit
        better space utilization.  If it is _not_ sufficient for
        primary fuel storage, then for a comparatively small
        space penalty, one can increase the range of a vessel
        without needing external drop tanks, and all of their
        associated problems.  For example, take the classic
        100td Scout.  This has 20td of fuel storage, sufficient
        for Jump-2.  With an additional 2td of titanium fuel
        blocks, you extend the range to J4, or J2-out-and-back
        with no fuel panic problems out there.  It is only if
        the I/O speed of Ti is so low that a ship that uses this
        method gets fewer jumps per year that the idea fails -
        and that means that filling the block takes longer than
        skimming and refining.

        How much does titanium cost?  If the price is less than
        ten times the price of conventional fuel tankage per
        unit volume, then it's a bargain, subject to the I/O
        speed issue above.

        If it's not Ti that does this, but the effect _has_ been
        demonstrated, then we can always use "fuelblock alloy"
        for this.

  Comments?

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Politics shouldn't be so political.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #968
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 20 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 969



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [T97#961] First Survey comments
Pilots v. Astrogator
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: [TML] fire, fuel for...
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: T4 Char Gen
reality outstrips Traveller ...again!
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: Ti fuel blocks idea
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: T4 Vehicles
Correction to THUDD entry Khushdakaa
[TML] High UPP stats...
THUDDD update
technology questions
Re:T4 Gripes
Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)
Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 16:31:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#961] First Survey comments

T::>Chapter 6:  Library Data  (pp. 75-93)

T::>Your basic library data section.  Writeups on the major personalities
 ::>of the 3rd Imperium, the major places, organizations and things, such
 ::>as Jeff Zeitlin's Warrant of Restoration (used with his permission, I might
 ::>add, and nice work on his part).  Thanks, Jeff!  A History section with essays
 ::>on history up to year 0.

 It was my pleasure to do it - it was fun thinking about what
 kind of Founding Document would establish a baseline for the
 M:1100 Imperium we're all familiar with.  One thing I will
 note, though - while the "meat" of the Warrant is mine (and
 unchanged, as near as I can tell), the Preamble thereto is
 _not_ what I had originally written, and I don't recall who
 did. I haven't yet decided which I like better.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Voters want a fraud they can believe in.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:55:30 -0800
From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
Subject: Pilots v. Astrogator

I always assumed that the Astrogator handled on the Jump calculations.

Since it would seem asinine to have a warm body handly a job that only
required 1 out every 7 days I usually do the following.  

I allow the Pilot/Astrogator to be one person with the following
restrictions.  
	Unless preplotted a JUMP cannot be made during manuevers.
	And that's it.
	When preparing JUMP calculations the ship must maintain course.  	  
(In the event of attack the calculations can simply be put on 	    hold
until calculations can be resumed)

WHAT! you might ask.  NO penalties nor henious dismemberment?  
NO.  And here's my reason.  If a ship want's to reduce manpower they
must double up on job duties.  So if the pilot is also the astrogator
then when the person goes to make jump calculations the ship must
maintain course.  It's not as if they're doing two jobs simaltaneously.  
HOWEVER.  FOR ships that have a gun slaved to the pilot controls I do
the following (eg. Fighters or Small Scouts).  Increase TO-HIT
difficulty by 1 level.  Also both PILOT and GUNNERY have the their skill
level reduced to the lower of the two.  So if Pilot is 2 and Gunnery 1
both would be level 1 skills for combat purposes.

ALL THE ABOVE IS SIMPLY IMHO.  ANY IDEAS OR CONTRARY BELIEFS WOULD BE
APPRECIATED.

THANKS,
Brad Urwiller
ravyn@ptw.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:08:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

Therse are a really nice idea...GM's are used to keeping piles of 3x5
cards around.  What I'd like to have is the data source my system went
looking to merge the document with ;-)

Along the lines of the Traveller Trading Cards ideas that have floated by
on occasion, these would be a nice set to have, with stats on one side,
and illo's on the other side.  Maybe one for each Milieu. This would be
nice because you could establish a 'look and feel' for each Milieu as they
come out...we've already seen that Milieu 0 is all cadillac fins and
swoopy curves.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:58:10 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

At 02:42 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Content-ID: <0_15158_856381354@emout19.mail.aol.com.116626>
>Content-type: text/plain
>
>When I read through the chapter on vehicles, I find them less than
>satisfying, primarily because they require some work by the referee or the
>player before they can be used. I would like to create a set of Vehicle
>cards, each with entries on basic data. When a group uses a vehicle, they
>would consult the card which would tell them basic performance data, etc.

I like the card design.  Perhaps a picture of the vehicle in question on the
reverse?


>Troop Carrier Squad
>Troop Carrier 2 Squad

Would these be APCs, such as the M-113, or Infantry Fighting Vehicles, like
the M2 Bradley or BMP?  Personaly, I prefer APCs, simply because they don't
attrack as much attention on the battlefield.

>Gtrailer

Interesting concept here...

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:19:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] fire, fuel for...

In mail you write:

> Why not use gravitational compression technology to create and store 
> SuperDense LHyd (patent pending)? The storage unit requires an
> uninterrupted power source, which can (and should) be built into the
> unit, to reduce the risk of accidental uncollapse.  However certain safety
> features can be built in to minimize the chance of a unit going BOOM like
> a fusion bomb (due to rapid uncollapse and subsequent compression while
> inside the unit).  

Because the laws of physics don't work that way. 

Above a certain temp, you'll never even get the hydrogen to liquefy.
Though the density may approach LH2.

Below that temp, you'll get LH2 with sufficient pressure, the pressure
required going down as the temp does. 

With lower temps you can get hydrogen "ice". LH2 will solidify to
*some* extent under pressure at temps *somewhat* above freezing. 

And at very high pressures you get metallic hydrogen...

All of these are mutually interdependent combos of temp, pressure, and
density. You can plot them as a fairly simple set of surfaces in a 3d
graph. 

Metallic hydrogen is only going to get you about 1.4 tons of hydrogen
per displacement ton. 

To get anything denser than *that* you have to overcome the mutual
repulsion of the electrons in solid hydrogen. That converts the
hydrogen to "degenerate matter". Which requires some rather *extreme*
pressures (like the center of the sun!). 

Worse, as degenerate matter, the nuclei *can* fuse. The rate is low,
but it doesn't take much to start a thermal runaway. As the temp
increases, the rate increases...

But the pressures required to store hydrogen as degenerate matter are
not going to be economical.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:05:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

In mail you write:

> Why pay a Astrogator salary and support for a function that can be
> performed in a automated fashion?  SureJump Flight Plans are available at
> every Class 'C' starport and above throughout the Rhylanor subsector.  For
> a quarter of the base salary of a Astrogator, we will supply you with the
> necessary information to navigate to the jump point and perform a
> successful and safe jump to the destiniation you specify AND our
> software will provide the basic information needed to establish a
> standard orbit around the destination world!  As an added bonus, we will
> provide ONE FREE update, should that become necessary in-transit!

The above bears *some* resemblance to the old "jump tapes" idea.

> Worried about that rogue pilot on your salary?  Unfortunately, Sector Law
> requires a licensed pilot aboard, and in the cockpit during take off,
> landings, dockings or undockings.  However, fully automated control is
> provided for, and with our exclusive software package -SureJump Navigator,
> that is what you will have.
>
> From a standard orbit, our software will interface with our flight plan
> and transport you safely to and from the jump point with no error!  And by
> removing pilot incurred variables from the jump plot, you will reduce your
> chance of mis-jump appreciably!(*1)

You'll also be violating the law if the *pilot* doesn't have the final
say. And I'm not sure I'd trust an automated package to avoid other
ships, military avoidance zones, etc.

> In the unfortunate (but rare!) event of a emergence from JumpSpace outside
> the preset parameters of the SureJump software, we now have available a
> new module,  SureJump NavFinder!  This software will search out and lock
> onto standard orbital beacons, and then automatically plot a direct line
> course to that beacon.

A direct line course is rarely a good idea. What if the beacon is
almost on the other side of the star? You'll get *awfully* warm.

Worse, what if the beacon is in the next hex!

> Once communication is established with the local
> SureJump office, you may upload your course update for a least cost orbit
> in! (*2)
>
> While attack in space seldom occurs in real life, we recognise that it
> does, in fact, occur.  Our local offices are authorised, upon confirmation
> of hostile action, to upload FREE(*3) course corrections as required by
> your ship.  We will take you out to the jump point or bring you in to the
> planet, AS YOU REQUIRE!

Right. Uploading course corrections during a battle? Aside from the
fact that light-lag will result in your ship manuevering like a drunken
cow, a bit of jamming will prevent the upload. Can you say "sitting duck"?

Or worse, the pirate will just ipload their *own* "corrections". :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:58:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> Car / Sedan
> Car / Limousine

Hi Marc,

Wow, what a list!  As long as you're planning on doing umpteen vehicles 
<G>, why not add:

Car / Compact
Car / Subcompact
Watercraft / Hovercraft
Watercraft / Speed Boat
Watercraft / 2-Man Boat (motorized & oar-driven versions)
Watercraft / Canoe
Watercraft / Battleship
Watercraft / Tug Boat
and lots more watercraft...

I know I'd use watercraft in my campaigns.  And the two smaller car types 
lend variety to the list of non-military land vehicles.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:48:22 -0800
From: Douglas McCorison <douglas@camax.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Char Gen

I've been watching the "Character Gen" discussion with some interest.
My particular solution to the generation hassle is the following:

	Attributes: 12D6, pair up as you see fit.
	Skills: Whenever a skill is determined, may either:
		Choose a table and roll on the table, or
		Roll for table and choose a skill.

This actually tends to minimize the min/maxing without the players
feeling that they have no say in the character's life.   They're 
still coming up with the 10 level 1, 3-4 level 2-3, and 1 or 2 level
4-6 skills mentioned earlier, for older characters.  I have a few
characters in the low 30's who don't have that level of skills.

just my 2Cr worth.

Douglas McCorison

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:23:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: reality outstrips Traveller ...again!

check out:

http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home96/nov96/batt.html

Researchers at Johns Hopkins University have developed all-plastic
rechargeable batteries. They currently have 2.5 V cells that they hope to
improve to compete with 3v lithium cells within several months, and
commercial applications soon after that.  The cells can be made into flat
sheets that can be cut and molded to any shape desired. 

Because they have no heavy metals, or liquid electrolyte they promise to
be much more user friendly and safer to use than current battery
technology. As a forinstance, they could become part of the case of a
portable computer, freeing up a lot of space.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:28:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

[snip]

> >
> > While attack in space seldom occurs in real life, we recognise that it
> > does, in fact, occur.  Our local offices are authorised, upon confirmation
> > of hostile action, to upload FREE(*3) course corrections as required by
> > your ship.  We will take you out to the jump point or bring you in to the
> > planet, AS YOU REQUIRE!
> 
> Right. Uploading course corrections during a battle? Aside from the
> fact that light-lag will result in your ship manuevering like a drunken
> cow, a bit of jamming will prevent the upload. Can you say "sitting duck"?
> 
> Or worse, the pirate will just ipload their *own* "corrections". :-)
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

EXACTLY!  :)

(sigh) Sarcasm is so unappreciated today...

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:19:23 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Ti fuel blocks idea

At 04:31 PM 2/19/97 -0500, JEFF ZEITLIN wrote:
>  It's been said here (with what level of accuracy, I don't
>  know) that a given volume of titanium can hold about ten times
>  as much hydrogen as an equal volume of empty space.  

I'm not sure it matters (hey, at some point this is a game :) ), but if, as
I assume, the method of storage in titanium is either by using it as a
clathrate or adsorbent, I'm hard pressed to see a 10x increase in density
over liquid hydrogen.  I could be wrong, but I hink liquid H2 should be
about the best density you'll get for hydrogen.  

In either case, you get the hydrogen away from the titanium by running a
small electric current through it.  This has been used as a safe way of
storing hydrogen for h-powered cars.  I'm not sure how fast it becomes
available, but for the sake of TL10+, and given sufficient surface area in
the tank, I think we can say "arbitrarily fast." :)

>        How much does titanium cost?  If the price is less than
>        ten times the price of conventional fuel tankage per
>        unit volume, then it's a bargain, subject to the I/O
>        speed issue above.

Currently, titanium is expensive.  Last I heard, a car-gas-tank-sized
storage tank full of titanium powder for storing hydrogen costs on the
order of $30K.  Of course, if you could find a titanium-rich asteroid or
two... 

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:10:17 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

> According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
> have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
> does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
> does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the
> crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
> member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
> nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.

Shuut-Uuup (like Lenny in the Simpson's "Stone Cutters" episode)
The Secret Guild of Navigators

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 20:11:18 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

>boxcars always succeed. Finally task systems based on rolling different
>number of dice for different task levels fail because Critical
>success/Critical failure generally gets more common as the difficulty
>increase 'coz the spread of results widen when the number of dice goes up.

That part (and only that part :-) of the T4 task system makes some sense 
to me, at least the critical failure bit. If I were to try an Easy Task 
in Real Life (tm), like riding a bicycle, if I fail, I would expect it to 
not be too traumatic.

If I try a Difficult Task, like riding a bicycle with one hand on the 
handlebars down a steep hill with a 2 cm layer of ice while carrying 40 
lbs. of groceries on my back, I expect to have a higher chance of really 
botching things up. Y'know, breaking a leg or something.

In the game, a critical failure means different things depending on the 
specifics of the task attempted, but I like the way the chance of really 
messing things up (ie. critical failure) increases in proportion to the 
difficulty of the task.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:28:59 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: T4 Vehicles

Marc Miller wrote:

>
>When I read through the chapter on vehicles, I find them less than
>satisfying, primarily because they require some work by the referee or the
>player before they can be used. I would like to create a set of Vehicle
>cards, each with entries on basic data. When a group uses a vehicle, they
>would consult the card which would tell them basic performance data, etc.
[snip]
>
>This is a list of the vehicles I envision being covered to begin.
>
>Motorcycle1200Atm 2-920.514006 hours100
>4 Wheel Rider
[snip]
>Aircraft Passenger FWJ Global
>
>I invite your comments on these vehicles and on the concept.
>
>Marc Miller


        Whaaaat..?  No Pogo Sticks?

:)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:25:18 -0600
From: Andrew Akins <igor@netins.net>
Subject: Correction to THUDD entry Khushdakaa

I neglected to list the sensor ratings in the ship's USP...
it should be A1 P2 J0

Sorry...


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@netins.net - http://www.netins.net/showcase/theakins/   |
| Work: aakins@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the the beauty that has touched mine.          |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:16:39 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [TML] High UPP stats...

The other night, one of my players rolled up a character that seemed, wrt
EDU, to push the limits of character generation.  We all roll boxcars
occasionally - he did, for EDU (= C).  He then went to college (+4 EDU),
graduate school (+2 EDU), and graduated with honors (+1 EDU).  He went
through the merchant marine and, when mustered out, gained yet another +1
EDU as a mustering out benefit.  Being a softie, I let him reroll the
benefit (he got a Low Passage instead), but as it was, he wound up maxed out
at EDU = F with 5 EDU points left over/wasted. I considered awarding him the
title of "Treasure of the Imperium" and locking him away in a teaching
institution...

My question:  Did I miss something in the T4 rules that would have prevented
this (player was mildly irritated at losing the excess 5 EDU points, but was
mollified by the fact that his degrees were longer than his name), or was
this just one of those things?





- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:55:22 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD update

        1) Voting is still open on the first THUDDD.  Deadline to get your
ballots in is Sunday.  Results so far are interesting; several different
perspectives and degrees of harshness in rating have been expressed, but
there are a couple of designs that everybody seems to like...


        2) As Paul is apparently a little bit busy these days, if he has no
objections I'll coordinate the second THUDDD, and let somebody else take it
over after the second one (unless Ethan wants to take over in which case
he's welcome).


        3) Given the voting on the first THUDDD ship selection (which
resulted in a close race between the Merc Cruiser and the Far Trader with
the Far Trader winning), and given the fact that the commercial feasibility
requirement seems to have produced a slew of unarmed econoboxes that all
look alike (I produced a couple of these, and broken ones to boot so I'm as
guilty as anyone else), I think that the next THUDDD ought to be on
something a little... less peaceful.  I shudder at the thought of what
X-TEK is going to unleash upon us.

        So, barring objections from Paul or Ethan, we're going to be doing
the Merc Cruiser.


        4) I think that we ought to spend a few days bashing over mission
requirements.  Here's my initial attempt:

1) Be affordable by your average planetary government or megacorp.

2) Be able to transport a significant number of troops (suggestions,
anyone?) plus vehicles and equipment, and provide neccessary repair and
maintenance facilities for said troops and vehicles.

3) Be capable of ship-to-ship combat.

4) Be capable of getting the troops onto the ground in the face of enemy
fire, whether by drop ships or landing.

5) Be able to provide fire support (ortillery or otherwise) for said troops.


        5) Lastly, I think that the prize for the Second THUDDD ought to be
a beautiful ASCII iridium-plated rock personally autographed by Sir Arameth
Gridlore... if Sir Arameth is willing, of course :)



        Between now and the time to solicit designs I'll try and codify and
post the THUDDD General Rule-Like Things and Vaguely Procedural Doohickeys
so as to minimize confusion...:)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:12:29 -0500
From: James Garriss <jpg@langley.mitre.org>
Subject: technology questions

>One question is:  how will data encryption work in the future?  It's
>important in general; in a modern economy, money is basically information,
>and encrypted information is hard to track, and governments have a hard
>time taxing what they can't track.
>
>Now, obviously the Imperium exists, and collects taxes, so we can rule out
>one possible future.  The others are:
>
>1. Encryption doesn't work as well or at all, because
>
>   a. Computer technology changes so that computing power is no longer
>      roughly linear with price.  That is, the very expensive powerful
>      machines become *many* orders of magnitude more effective than cheap,
>      easily-available machines.  (Maybe they use quantum computations, or
>      something.)  Effective encryption is then only available to
>      organizations that can afford and are permitted to own these
>      supercomputers.  When other folks try it, their efforts can be
>      defeated by a brute-force approach by the supercomputers.
>
>   b. Advances in mathematics and computational theory make public-key
>      encryption schemes impossible.  Encryption works, but doesn't cause
>      big problems for the government, because of the key distribution
>      problem.  As a contemporary illustration, one-time-pad encryption
>      provably works, but is impractical for most purposes.
>
>2. Encryption works, but is restricted by law, mandatory hardware
>   implementations, etc.  This is basically the Clinton administration
>   approach.  (But if encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have
>   encryption...)
>
>3. Encryption works just fine, but somehow the Imperium manages to collect
>   its taxes anyway.  Material goods can't be hidden by encryption, after
>   all.  It just turns out that our contemporary worries about govermements
>   undermined by the secret economy were overblown.
>
>Another question is: will nanotechnology become practical and prevalent?
>Neil Stephenson's book *The Diamond Age* is a good source of ideas about
>what might happen here.  (It's also a fine read, even if it does get a bit
>goofy at the end, IMHO.)  He has all sorts of robots, from sub-dust-size
>mites up to ping-pong ball aerostats, that float around independently and
>do neato things.
>
>Another question is: will self-replicating machines be practical?  Again, I
>think these are incompatible with the CT mileau.  A thousand years of
>exponential-growth automated development in a very large universe would
>lead to something rather different than the Imperium, IMHO.


 James Garriss                             "Everything that can be
 System Engineer, MITRE               invented has been invented."
 jpg@langley.mitre.org              Charles H. Duell, Commissioner
 http://www.cs.odu.edu/~garriss       U.S. Office of Patents, 1899

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:54:53 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re:T4 Gripes

> Well, some comparison notes on skill levels per term, base plus bonuses:
> CT: 1-2 per term, +1 per each: Commission, Promotion
> 	range 1-4 per term
> MT: 1-2 per term, +1-2 each: Commission, Promotion, SplDuty
> 	1-8 per term, normally 2-4 per term
> TNE: 1-4 per term, doubled on Special duty, plus 1 each for commission and
> promotion.
> 	1-10 per term, diminishing with age, weighting out to 2-6 per term
> T4: 4-6 per term, +1 each: Commission, Promotion, Special Duty
> 	4-7 per term (careers with 6 base don't have Commission/Promo).

You should do the comparison to the 1 year method in CT Books 4-7 or 
in the MT PM for Scouts, Merchants, Mercenaries, and Naval 
characters.  The number of skills earned each term is about the same 
as what you've listed for T4.

This is why I said that T4 fixed the old 4-year methods in CT and MT.

Put simply, T4 characters generated with the 4 year method are 
comparable with characters generated in the CT/MT 1 year methods.

Kenneth.
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:54:52 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Experience System (was T4 gripes)

Doesn't this...

> Another thing is that ALL tasks should be possible to suceed and fail at no
> matter the skill level AND the sucess propability should decrease when
> skill goes up et c.

And this...

 I hate stupid rules like snake-eyes always fails,
> boxcars always succeed. 

Contradict each other?

The success chance should DECREASE as skill level goes up?
So, level 0 characters should have the best chance of success?

What the heck are you saying anyway?


Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:13:37 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)

>A vehicle card draft layout is attached as a Word for Windows 95 file.

How about a MS Word 6.0 format, or better yet a Adobe Acrobat version of
this file, there are a lot of us that don't have anything that can handle
MS Word '95.  Trying to read the file crashes my system.

		    Thanks,
			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast          |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Mac Programmer            |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing   |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                      |

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #969
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 20 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 970



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4 gripes...
Re: A Good Day
Re:  T4 Gripes
Re: A Good Day
Re: B5 and linear consistency
Astrogator required?
What does the computer do?
Re: fuel blocks
Re: T4 Gripes & A Better Task System 
Re: Misjumps
Enormous EDU bonuses
Re: Ti fuel blocks idea
Re: 28 CT starships for T4 (long)
Re: Another SSDS ship Design: Century Class Luxury Liner
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: Ti fuel blocks idea
Re: Ti fuel blocks idea

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:25:54 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 gripes...

> The reason I don't like 5D for Impossible tasks is that they are still far
> to easy.  With a Skill of 6 (quite high, but possible) and a
> characteristic of 12 (also quite possible) you've got a total of 18. That
> gives you an over 50% chance of succeeding at an impossible task. 

My question to you is:

What percentage chance would you give a character with skill-6 and 
stat-12?


> A good example would be "While hanging upside-down on a ladder, held on
> with my legs hooked through the runs of the ladder, with a flashlight held
> in one hand and a pistol in the other, can I shoot the dimly lit moving
> shape in the warehouse below."  (A edited version of an actual in-game
> event).  *No one* should have a 50% chance to succeed here, it takes all
> the fun out of it.  

In this situation, I would referee the game like this-

It definitely is an Impossible task.

There should be, and I would assess, an additional negative DM for 
the unusal circumstances.  I'd give the player, say, a -9 because 
he's hanging by his feet, not steady, has to crane his neck up and 
around to see, is starting to feel fatigue in his neck and back 
muscles, and is not bracing the pistol while he is swinging.

Matter of fact, a -9 DM to the task throw might be a little generous 
given the situation you've laid out.  I might even make the character 
make a 2 dice Dex check (Dex score or less on 2 D6) to even get into 
a position in which to make the shot.  I picked -9 because I figure 
your situation is at least as hard--probably more so-- as a person 
trying to inflict triple damage under ideal conditions (see pg. 59 of 
T4).

Under my system, your character's target number would be 18 (DEX-12, 
Pistol-6).  This would be modified to 9 with the special circumstance 
modifier that I applied.  I think a modifier like this appropriate in 
this case, especially since modifiers are applied to task throws for 
much less severe circumstance--target size, movement status, light 
conditions, etc.

With a modified target number of 9, under my system, the 5 dice 
Impossible task would only have a 1.62% chance of success, and he's 
got a 1 in 5 chance of royally screwing up--maybe shooting himself 
in the leg or hand, or falling off the ladder, or whatever.

Yes, your situation was just about impossible, but I can see a 1.62% 
chance of success for a person with a 12 Dex (just 3 points below 
human max) and a level 6 skill (very, very high--twice the expertise 
of a medical doctor).

Given this, my 5 D Impossible system does work.

  My best fix (and the one I now use) is the MT task
> system, it doesn't have any of these bugs in it. 

The MT system is a good system.  It was my system of choice before 
T4, but the thing I like about T4 is that you get the full benefit of 
your attributes with it.

Every point of your stat (or in the case of my system, every other 
point) increases your chance of success.  In MT, there are only three 
benefit points--at a stat of 5, 10, and 15.  

You can only improve at +1, +2, or +3 due to your abilities.  In T4, 
you get maximum benefit of every point (or every other point).

Let me ask you a question.  In MT, what is the difference between a 
Dex 6 and a Dex 8.  The answer to this, realistically, is not much.  
Both give you a +1 on your task throw, and so does Dex 5, 7, and 9.

Under T4, the difference is 2 whole points of benefit, and every Dex 
increase increases your chance to hit.  Under my system, you still 
get a better increase with each Dex level although it is only half 
that of the T4 system (by design).

This is one of the things that convinced me that T4 had a superior 
system to MT, and believe me, I was an ardent defender of the MT 
system.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:50:52 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Day

Clay writes:

>I also received MILIEU 0 and FIRST SURVEY. I've only had time glance 
>at them, and I have only a few notes:
>o The secondary stars are predominantly type D again.

   <insert your favorite expletive here> figures....

   As T4 has so much errata at this point, what's another batch? 
Apparently the writers just downloaded the various sector info from
wherever and didn't bother changing the stellar data when they sent it
along to IG.  The level of ignorance about basic Astronomy among
science-fiction fans (and authors) continues to astound and amaze me.

> (I'll just change those again for my adventures and campaigns.)

   Given that the stellar generaton system is about to change, you may
want to hold off on that for the moment.  

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:43:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re:  T4 Gripes

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> wrote:

>>T4, the skill levels have about the same value as they did in MT and
>>CT.  This level 12 stuff is TNE thinking.
>>CT.  This level 12 stuff is TNE thinking.
>>
>>How do I back that up?  Well, all the things about T4 are basically
>>the CT rules with a few tweaks here and there--not the TNE rules.
>>And MT was just another tweaking of the CT rules.  I think that CT
>>and MT are fairly compatible with T4 (and I sometimes make TNE stuff
>>compatible too, but it takes more work).

>Well, some comparison notes on skill levels per term, base plus bonuses:
>CT: 1-2 per term, +1 per each: Commission, Promotion
>        range 1-4 per term
>MT: 1-2 per term, +1-2 each: Commission, Promotion, SplDuty
>        1-8 per term, normally 2-4 per term
>TNE: 1-4 per term, doubled on Special duty, plus 1 each for commission and
>promotion.
>        1-10 per term, diminishing with age, weighting out to 2-6 per term
>T4: 4-6 per term, +1 each: Commission, Promotion, Special Duty
>        4-7 per term (careers with 6 base don't have Commission/Promo).
>
>this shows clearly that MTis roughly 1.5 times CT, TNE is double CT, and 
>T4 is expected result of 6 per term, putting it over MT or CT by 1.5 - 2
>times; and t4 is on par with TNE for skill levels. Also, TNE assets are on
>par with, or slightly lower than, t4 assest, due to easier methods of stat
>gain and higher starting atts (1 pt).

Actually this shows me that T4 character simply have more skills that CT
or MT characters.  As I see it, CT character had pathetically few skills. 
Given that 3-4 was defined as professional level (a profession Naval
Architect had skill 4, a doctor needed Medical 3 to get a license...) Most
character were rather limited, one-note, characters. 

MT made this notably better, and T4 has finally given character enough
skills to be realistic (we're often playing highly trained PC's in their
mid-late 30s, they should have more than the 12-16 points of skills MT
usually produced. 

As a basic trend in gaming the number skills characters have has gone up
in the past 20 years.  However, skill level 3 is enough to become a
licensed physician and I see no reason at all to change the meaning of
skill levels.  True, characters are no longer compatible, but they can be
adapted. 

- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 03:09:03 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Day

Please ignore the previous post on this subject, it was intended for the
HIWG-list.

- -hdh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 03:07:48 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: B5 and linear consistency

James Lindsay writes: 

> Battlestar had one major redeming feature.  Jane Seymour.
> Once they killed her off...
>
>Hey!  What about the actress that played Athena?  In our little gaming
>group, we all agree that Starbuck must have been "one thruster short"
>to avoid her and chase after Casseopia (sp?).  Come on... Athena was
>hot, had a real job, and was the daughter of the fleet Admiral to
>boot!

   Well Casseopia did have certain...umm...skills that Athena lacked. 
Unfortunately she could no longer make money performing them so she took
up nursing.

   Besides, do you really want to incur the wrath of Commander Adama
when you dump Athena for some other skirt?  Starbuck wasn't exactly the
one woman man type until Casseopia settled him down (a little).

   My vote is for Sheba.  She can fly with the best, handles a blaster
with ease, endures hardship and separations without complaining, and is
reasonably easy on the eye.  All the qualities you are looking for in a
mate when you've got Cylons constantly on your tail, and you never know
when your shoreleave will be...interrupted.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 03:37:42 EST
From: "Michael C. Nutt" <misha@crossrds.com>
Subject: Astrogator required?

I always figured the "astrogator" as a sort of "astrogator/sensor
operator/copilot" position, myself. Yes, the astrogator's biggest
responsibility was generating a jump vector, but he had other things to be
doing as well. Sure, there will be times where there just isn't a whole lot
going on in the cockpit while you're motoring along to the jump point... but
he's there to cover your butt when things *do* get a little hairy. 

Do you really want your pilot to be flying the ship, lining up the com
laser, talking to Traffic Control, scanning for junk in the way, projecting
possible danger courses for that clumsy Vargr freighter, keeping up with the
functioning of *all* flight-critical systems *and* generating your jump
vector all at the same time? 

Yes, a lot of these are probably going to be highly automated, especially at
TL 14 or 15, and on a ship with a really awesome computer system, the pilot
can probably *do* everything at once. How many Free Traders have
military-standard computer systems, though, or civilian systems that would
be robust enough to handle all the tasks that *might* be needed? One
overworked individual can get you there, probably, if the rest of the crew
comes down with Rigellian Death Flu or something, but I never let my players
get away with not having enough bridge crew.

A point I haven't seen mentioned here before that seemed fairly obvious to
*me*, at least, is that the flight crew won't spend that time in jump just
watching holovision. They'll have shipboard duties, like standing instrument
watches, and they'll also be running a *lot* of simulations, to keep their
skills sharpened, since everybody's butt depends on them getting things
right the first time... it's not the end of the world if the purser blows a
sale, but if you don't do that landing right, boom!

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 03:37:48 EST
From: "Michael C. Nutt" <misha@crossrds.com>
Subject: What does the computer do?

Related to the discussion about whether an astrogator is really necessary...

I was wondering what everyone allows "the ship's computer" to take care of
during flight. I personally like the idea of a voice-activated computer
being very helpful to the crew, but I don't give the computer a lot of
leeway for independent action. I require sophont action for sensor scans,
communications, course changes, jump vector generation, instrument watches,
damage control, and many other things.

I'll let the computer handle "dialing in the com laser onto the spaceport",
or "selecting the proper radio frequency", but if you want clearance to
orbit, you have to ask Traffic Control yourself. I won't let a player say,
"Computer, give me a complete sensor scan, and report any anomalies"... if
he wants to scan for something, he has to do it himself. I'll tell him  the
results based on what he tells me he's looking for, and where, and on his
Sensor Ops roll. After all, the definition of "anomaly" is pretty broad,
when you think about it....

I require the astrogator to be much more involved in jump vector plotting
than simply saying, "Jump vector for Efate, please, Computer." I won't let
the computer make any course changes except to avoid collisions... if you
program in a course that takes you through the middle of that BatRon on
maneuvers, the computer will let you. After all, *you're* the one whose
piloting license will get lifted!

During the week in jumpspace, if possible, I leave one crewmember on
instrument watch at all times, just in case of an emergency... I don't trust
an anti-hijack program to properly interpret a wandering passenger, or to
notify the captain in case of a medical emergency, for instance. There are
so *many* things that can go wrong on a spaceship that I don't think it
would *ever* be a good idea to entrust your lives to a computer sytem if you
could avoid it, unless AIs are developed, which brings up a whole 'nother
kettle of fish.

Any comments/ideas?

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:51:43 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: fuel blocks

>        How fast can you get that hydrogen into and out of the
>        block, and under what conditions?
...
>        How much does titanium cost?  If the price is less than
>        ten times the price of conventional fuel tankage per
>        unit volume, then it's a bargain, subject to the I/O
>        speed issue above.
>  Comments?

  We can expect titanium to be cheap enough to be available
for starship use.  Cost of fuel tankage isn't a direct cost
comparison factor - I can't buy extra conventional tankage
to increase my range.
  The I/O problem, if one exists, could be partially avoided
just like running purification - do a bit at a time;  jump
on normal tankage and spend a week refilling from your "sponge"
to make your next jump.
  This creates a new set of background problems - like couriers
that can cross the Great Rift, spy ships or commerce raiders
that have virtually unlimited range, and all the attendant
changes in background politics and economics.  My next campaign
will probably involve mass-calculation based ship design and
operations, so compression becomes largely counter-productive. 
      Yours truly,
             Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:17:54 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes & A Better Task System 

> From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> Subject: Re: T4 Gripes
> 
> > That 64.98% chance of success on an impossible task is the problem.
> > It is the Whole problem, and nothing but the problem.
> 
> The guy's got a stat of level of 14--just one below human
> maximum--and a skill level of 6, twice the equivalent skill that a
> doctor has.  Some characters never even see a level 6 skill.
> 
> What kind of a percentage would you give this character on an
> Impossible task.  I'm just curious.
> 
> > Also, Under MT as written I frequently encountered characters that could
> > not make ANY impossible tasks, and some that could not make them even with
> > extra time....
> 
> Actually, in MT, natural boxcars always hit, so every character has
> at least a 2.7 % chance of success even if he wasn't skilled.
> 
> Kenneth.

	This charecters chance of success on an Impossible Task for a charecter
with Skill=6 and Attribute=14(E) should be about 0.5 %.  However what we
are now calling an Impossible Task should be renamed Nearly Impossible
and this charecter should have about a 2 or 2.5% chance of success. 
This is possible using my Task System.  This Task System is a Modified
MegaTraveller System & it owes some credit to similar systems others
have posted.  Here it is.

A New Task System for Traveller:

	Dice Rolling Procedure:  Roll 2d6 for all tasks.  On a natural roll of
2 or 12 roll more dice.  

	On any roll of 12 you  roll 1 more d6 and add its result to your total,
if it is a 6 you roll another d6 and add it to your total, keep rolling
as long as you get sixes.

	On any roll of 2 you must roll 1 more d6 and subtract its result to
your total, if it is a 6 you roll another d6 and subtract it from your
total, keep rolling as long as you get sixes.

Modifiers To Tasks

	Most Tasks are a test of an appropriate skill & an appropriate
attribute, some tasks may require a test of two skills.  Modifiers to
the roll or the basic difficulty of the task may be made (basically the
MT system)

	Your skill level is a positive modifier to the task roll, add +1 to
your roll for every level of skill. 

	Your natural talent (attribute) also modifies your roll, but is not as
important as your training,  add one third of your  _current_ attribute
level (round down) to your roll, as summarized below.  (The charecter
sheet you use should include a space for this.)

	There is _no_ limit to the possible positive modifiers on a task,
however maximum skill level attainable is level 12.

Attribute	Bonus to Skill
0		You Cannot try this task & if the stat is anything but
		Psionics you should be dead or badly wounded
1		+0
2		+0
3		+1
4		+1
5		+1
6		+2
7		+2
8		+2
9		+3
10 (A)		+3
11 (B)		+3
12 (C)		+4
13 (D)		+4
14 (E)		+4
15 (F)		+5
16 (G)		+5 Human Players should not have stats this high.
17 (H)		+5
18 (J)		+6


	Task Difficulties

Simple 			4+
Routine			8+
Difficult		12+
Formidable		16+
Staggering		20+	(Some "Impossible Tasks" should really
				 be Staggering)
Nearly Impossible 	24+	(Most "Impossible Tasks" are really
				 Nearly Impossible)
Impossible		28+	(This refers to a task which should
				 really BE Impossible)
				(To have a chance to succede at an 					Impossible Task (without
rerolls) you 					will need a Skill Level of 11+ and a 					Statistic of
12+).

	Most Tasks may be done Hastily at +1 Difficulty Level.
Most Tasks may be done Cautiously at -1 Difficulty Level,  the Referee
may require a Routine (or harder) Determination Check (Endurance &
Intelligence are the modifiers) to be patient enough to complete a
Cautious check.

	Most Tasks require the skill listed those few that do not should be
listed as Unskilled Okay.  If you are Unskilled you may attempt the task
but at +1 Task Difficulty Level.  Optionally for some Tasks the
Unskilled Penalty may be +2 or more task difficulty levels (Nuclear
Physics, Brain Surgery & the like).  If Task Difficulty increases beyond
Impossible, it may not be attempted.  If it is attempted (by charecters
who don't know how hard it is perhaps) the Referee should make it an
automatic Critical Failure, be cruel.

	Any unmodified roll of less than 0 is a failure.  If the modified roll
on the task would normally makes it a success it is a regular failure,
but if the modified role is a failure it is a Critical Failure. Any
modified Task Roll that fails by 4 or more points is a Critical
Failure.  Heartless Referees may make any critical failure 1 level worse
for every 4 points you fail by.

	Any Modified Roll that is 4 or more points greater than that needed for
success is a Critical Success (unless it is the Unmodified roll was less
than 0 as seen above).  If you make Critical Failures worse depending on
how much the charecter fails by you should make Critical Success's
better in the same way.

	Lets take a look at a few sample tasks using this system.

	An average person attempting a Routine Task in their one of their
fields of skill will have an attriblte of 7 or 8 (+1) and a skill level
of 2 (+2) for a total bonus of +3.  They will succsede on a 5+  (83.3%
of the time) and fail on a 2-4 (16.7% of the time) this rate of failure
may seem too high however I am explicitly assuming that most day to day
work is Simple, or done Cautiuosly.  They will get a Critical Success on
a 9+ (27.8% of the time).

	When a charecter with an Attribute of 14 (E) (+4) and Skill Level 6
attempts a Nearly Impossible task, he has a total bonus of +10 and needs
to roll a 24 or better.  This means he needs to roll a 12 on the task,
which allows him to roll another die & then roll more anything but a 1
on this die. 12 (roll) + 10 (bonus) +2 or more = 24 or more. His chances
of sucess are 5/216 or 2.3%.

	I have not looked at every combination of skill level, attribute & task
difficulties but this system seem right to me.

	By allowing no limit to the bonus you reward charecters with high
skills or attributes.  By allowing additive rolls on a 12 it becomes
possible for any charecter to complete any task if they are lucky.

	Comments are welcomed.

	All parts of this system not copyrighted by Imperium Games or Digest
Group Publications are copyright 1997 by Peter Newman.  Permission to
use for personal non commercial use or post on free sights is given.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:46:31 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Misjumps

> From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
> Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
> 
> In-Reply-To: <970216.092144.4y0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
> 
> << Oh yeagh, if you engage the drive at 10 diameters, don't forget that
> gives a *large* chance for a misjump. It's even *possible* to engage
> the drive on the ground. But the odds are little better than suicide
> (anybody got them handy?) >>
> 
> My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very*
> unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to
> survive. They rolled a 12.
> 
>     ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
> Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/

	The group I was playing in once jumped their ship out from inside the
High Port (while some of the party was on the hull ! - fortunately the
Jump field forms 1 meter out from the hull),  and on another occasion
Jumped out while inside a Zhodhani ship that had just captured us.  We
managed to survive both times, but I really do not think the rest of the
(less familiar with Traveller) party realized just how lucky we had been
/ how stupid they had been / how nice the Referee was being.  My
charecter, who was the Engineer, critically failed the Formidable Task
to determine what kind of misjump this was going to be (by looking at
the jump entry data & comparing them to previous misjump data) and
concluded that this was the sort of jump where the jump field interacted
with the inside of the ship & drove its crew homicidal during jump. 

	 She then failed the difficult Determination check to remain cool in
the face of this knowledge.  Since I was already playing her with
paranoid tendancies she started to stick to herself, would not talk to
her ship mates, started wearing Combat Armor on ship, started eating
only sealed ration packs & water, told the Captain that she knew we were
all going to die horribly, & refused a medical exam.  She explained that
she knew we were all being driven insane.  At this point the ships
doctor, whom the charecter did not know was Psionic, used his Telepathy
to reasure her that everything was going to be alright.  Her response
was  "So the voices in my head are reasuuring me that everything is
perfectly normal and this is supposed to make me fell better !?!"  The
Doctor made his roll to control her mind, so she stayed calm until we
came out of the misjump, on day 14 after a jump 35 that took 6 monthes
in the real universe.  Once she realized a telepath had messed with her
mind she promptly went out and secretly had a Psi Shield helmet
implanted in her skull as cyberwear. (see Fire Fusion & Steel for
details)  She never would admit she had it or explain why she come back
from the crew vacation during annual maintenance with her head shaved.
:)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:41:55 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Enormous EDU bonuses

Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com> said:

>The other night, one of my players rolled up a character that seemed, wrt
>EDU, to push the limits of character generation.  We all roll boxcars
>occasionally - he did, for EDU (= C).  He then went to college (+4 EDU),
>graduate school (+2 EDU), and graduated with honors (+1 EDU) ... maxed out
>at EDU = F with 5 EDU points left over/wasted.

>My question:  Did I miss something in the T4 rules that would have prevented...

When proof-reading the original T4 rules I advocated that the EDU
alterations should be halved and combined with a maxing-out rule, but this
wasn't put in... since 2d6 is a bell curve, by definition achieving higher
stats isn't a linear process, so moving from 11->12 should be much more
costly than 6->7. In such circumstances I would suggest that during college,
for a EDU12 player, you give them the option of +0 to +2 EDU, say, and give
them 4 - (adj to EDU) extra skills, to allow that they were so learned, that
they didn't really need to spend too much time in lessons, and instead went
out and socialised (my players would choose +0 EDU and Drinking-4 skill...) :-)

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:10:03 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Ti fuel blocks idea

>        If it's not Ti that does this, but the effect _has_ been
>        demonstrated, then we can always use "fuelblock alloy"
>        for this.

Fleischman & Pons used palladium for their Cold fusion experiments but some
of the guys here in Uppsala used Ti instead mainly because it is so much
cheaper and still has about the same hydrogen packing abilities.
Remember that while displacement savings will be huge you'll also increase
your mass by a lot. If jumpfuel depended on mass or perhaps both then
hydrogen packing in solids wouldn't be an issue:
J-fuel equals 0.007 tons per Jn per max(volume(KL) of ship,mass(tons) of ship)

This may pose problem for canonical heavily armored ships as by this rule,
any ship that doesn't float will have its J-fuel consumption increased.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:23:32 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: 28 CT starships for T4 (long)

On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Robert Flammang wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> Well, here they are, the 28 ship designs from CT that I promised I
> would convert to T4. This should give all interested parties some
> basis for judging the HG-to-T4 conversion system I've cooked up.
> 

[snip Kinunir which has same problem]

> ...............................................................................
>                                Unicorn class Close Escort
> 
> Tons: 300 Box/SL               Volume: 4200                     Cost: 355.99
> Crew: 12                       Hi/Med Pass: 0                   Low Pas: 0
> Cargo: 6                       Controls: Mil Std /Bridge        Tech Level: 14
> 
>  8 Size Rating                                  5 Jump Drive Rating
>  6 Fire Control Rating                          5 G Thruster Plates
>                                                 7 Power Plant Rating (5250MW)
>  L Battery 1 - 4,4,4,4                         81 Fuel Rating /Scoop /Refine
>  L Battery 2 - 4,4,4,4                          0 Meson Screen Rating
>  PA Battery 1 - 1,1,1,1                         0 Damper Rating
>  PA Battery 1 - 1,1,1,1                         0 Sandcaster Rating
>                                                12 A  12 P  12 J  Sensor
>                                                30 Armor       15 Structure
> 

So the laser battery - one laser turret each - is 4x more powerful at
every range band than the PA turret - which is a 5 ton barbette in the
original design if I remember correctly.

When I faked up a design for this (I haven't found PA rules I like - esp.
the FF&S ones) I made the PA something like 5,3,2,1 and the lasers
something like 2,1,1,0 or 1,1,1,1.  Under any circumstances, the PA should
be doing more damage than the lasers at any range except perhaps the
longest.

How does your conversion handle these weapons?

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:30:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Another SSDS ship Design: Century Class Luxury Liner

Bravo, Bravo!!!

Reminiscient of FASA's King Richard from Action Aboard.  In fact I bet the
plots from that adventure would drop right in seamlessly.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:43:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In mail you write:

> In-Reply-To: <970216.092144.4y0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
>
> << Oh yeagh, if you engage the drive at 10 diameters, don't forget that
> gives a *large* chance for a misjump. It's even *possible* to engage
> the drive on the ground. But the odds are little better than suicide
> (anybody got them handy?) >>
>
> My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very* 
> unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to 
> survive. They rolled a 12.

Did they jump at one *diameter* (one planetary radius *above* the
surface) or one *radius* (from the surface)?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:35:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ti fuel blocks idea

In mail you write:

> I'm not sure it matters (hey, at some point this is a game :) ), but if, as
> I assume, the method of storage in titanium is either by using it as a
> clathrate or adsorbent, I'm hard pressed to see a 10x increase in density
> over liquid hydrogen. 

It's more like a clathrate, but with a far higher ratio of "trapped"
material. 

> I could be wrong, but I hink liquid H2 should be about the best density
> you'll get for hydrogen.  

LH2 is not very dense. That's why most hydrogen compounds are so much denser.

> Currently, titanium is expensive.  Last I heard, a car-gas-tank-sized
> storage tank full of titanium powder for storing hydrogen costs on the
> order of $30K.  Of course, if you could find a titanium-rich asteroid or
> two... 

Titanium isn't expensive because it is *rare*. It's expensive because
it's hard to convert TiO2 to Ti metal. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:29:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ti fuel blocks idea

In mail you write:

>   It's been said here (with what level of accuracy, I don't
>   know) that a given volume of titanium can hold about ten times
>   as much hydrogen as an equal volume of empty space.  Working
>   from there:
>
>         How fast can you get that hydrogen into and out of the
>         block, and under what conditions?

It's rather slow after the first little bit. If you want fast, you have
to use convulted layers of Ti foil or Ti "sponge". And that ups the
amount of empty space being used.

>         associated problems.  For example, take the classic
>         100td Scout.  This has 20td of fuel storage, sufficient
>         for Jump-2.  With an additional 2td of titanium fuel
>         blocks, you extend the range to J4, or J2-out-and-back
>         with no fuel panic problems out there.

Don't forget that one "td" of Ti weighs 56 tons (Ti masses 4 tons per
cubic meter). That's a rather massive fuel tank you have there. :-)

Absorbing and releasing hydrogen tends to crack titanium, too.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #970
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 20 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 971



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: THUDDD Update
Changes? And newbie questions (was Re: A Good Day)
A Yawning week in jumpspace (was Re: What does the computer do?)
Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)
HG to T4 armor conversions
Re: Re:T4 Gripes
Plastic Batteries  in Traveller
Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)
Re: THUDDD update
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
Re: Swing to the Right
Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: THUDDD update
Re: T4-Gripes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:40:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD Update

>        1) Voting is still open on the first THUDDD.  Deadline to get your
>ballots in is Sunday.  Results so far are interesting; several different
>perspectives and degrees of harshness in rating have been expressed, but
>there are a couple of designs that everybody seems to like...

Yeah, a lot of the designs are really similar... economics has a 
really dulling effect on creativity.

>        2) As Paul is apparently a little bit busy these days, if he has no
>objections I'll coordinate the second THUDDD, and let somebody else take it
>over after the second one (unless Ethan wants to take over in which case
>he's welcome).

Oh, well, no, that's OK, I know how things are, Paul, busy busy...
I will, however, post all the entries on the web one of these days,
maybe tonight, we'll see. Ironically enough, it's easier for me to do
the HTML conversions at work, beaucse I have a better computer, a T1
connection and I don't have to help with the dishes like I do at home,
but there is this things that when I'm actually _at work_, they want me
to... well, it's all too ugly to say.

>        3) Given the voting on the first THUDDD ship selection (which
>resulted in a close race between the Merc Cruiser and the Far Trader with
>the Far Trader winning), and given the fact that the commercial feasibility
>requirement seems to have produced a slew of unarmed econoboxes that all
>look alike (I produced a couple of these, and broken ones to boot so I'm as
>guilty as anyone else), I think that the next THUDDD ought to be on
>something a little... less peaceful.  I shudder at the thought of what
>X-TEK is going to unleash upon us.
>
>        So, barring objections from Paul or Ethan, we're going to be doing
>the Merc Cruiser.

Why would I object? It was my first choice! Now I get to go to the weapons
tables in SSDS and start really heating things up...

>        4) I think that we ought to spend a few days bashing over mission
>requirements.  Here's my initial attempt:
>
>1) Be affordable by your average planetary government or megacorp.

Or band of mercenaries-for-hire.

>2) Be able to transport a significant number of troops (suggestions,
>anyone?) plus vehicles and equipment, and provide neccessary repair and
>maintenance facilities for said troops and vehicles.

Well, it's a _Mercenary_ crusier. Generally, I don't think you're
going to see whole mercenary armies - it will be a small number of
well equiped, well trained people who will provide support in terms
of training, leadership and heavy weaponry to local armies.

Thus, I feel that the number of troops needed to be carried will be
fairly small - 50 to 100. I wouldn't want to run into them in an alley,
but they really couldn't mount a military campaign on their own.

>3) Be capable of ship-to-ship combat.

Oh yes.

>4) Be capable of getting the troops onto the ground in the face of enemy
>fire, whether by drop ships or landing.
>
>5) Be able to provide fire support (ortillery or otherwise) for said troops.

Meson bombardment, here we come...

Anyone else have 'Knightfall', where the adventure starts with orbital
meson bombardment (er, meson blowing-up) of the starport dirtside?
Realistically, few planets will be rich enough to have deep meson
site to defend themselves. Some will have meson screens to protect
key areas, but a lot of planets will be sitting ducks against even
bay meson weaponry. (Wait, are there meson bays? there wern't in High Guard,
where there? I need to keep all my stuff at work...)

>        5) Lastly, I think that the prize for the Second THUDDD ought to be
>a beautiful ASCII iridium-plated rock personally autographed by Sir Arameth
>Gridlore... if Sir Arameth is willing, of course :)

I was hoping for a chunk of Jay's unobtainum myself.

>        Between now and the time to solicit designs I'll try and codify and
>post the THUDDD General Rule-Like Things and Vaguely Procedural Doohickeys
>so as to minimize confusion...:)

Oooohhh... cool. We'll be ISO 9000 certified. I'll hire a human resources
person and 3 co-ops and... wait, is this the Dilbert list? Sorry.

Anyways, I'm glad to help, although I don't think I can really go so
far as to co-ordinate the whole thing, at least not this time. I 
understand that this is job-huntin' time for you school-bound people
though, so maybe next time...

- -- 
ehenry@magma.ca                                  http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:05:58 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Changes? And newbie questions (was Re: A Good Day)

At 02:50 AM 2/20/97 -0500, Harold D. Hale wrote:
>   Given that the stellar generaton system is about to change, you may
>want to hold off on that for the moment.  

Change how?  What's this referring to?

And as long as I'm asking (I haven't been here long) what's THUDD?
Could those of you rampantly using TLAs (Three Letter Acroynms :) ), once 
in a while refer to their actual meaning?  

Thanks.

Oh, and if there _is_ any cool shareware (other than the recently posted
spreadsheet) for chargen, ship creation, stellar generation, etc., I'd
_love_ to get ahold of it!


- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:18:22 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: A Yawning week in jumpspace (was Re: What does the computer do?)

At 03:37 AM 2/20/97 EST, Michael C. Nutt wrote:
>During the week in jumpspace, if possible, I leave one crewmember on
>instrument watch at all times, just in case of an emergency... I don't trust
>an anti-hijack program to properly interpret a wandering passenger, or to
>notify the captain in case of a medical emergency, for instance. There are
>so *many* things that can go wrong on a spaceship that I don't think it
>would *ever* be a good idea to entrust your lives to a computer sytem if you
>could avoid it, unless AIs are developed, which brings up a whole 'nother
>kettle of fish.

What about the idea that jumpspace has currents or some sort of ebb and
flow (I'm thinking of something vaguely like Niven's jumpspace).  IMO, a
jump shouldn't just be a week spent yawning and checking your watch.

Maybe I'm just bent this way, but has anyone ever considered having
encounters of one sort or another _in_ jumpspace?  Having a partial failure
of jump systems ("we've lost lateral controls, Captain!") and risking a
misjump if your astrogation skill rolls aren't made, getting caught in
currents or "rapids", encountering beings that live there, or TL17/Ancients
ships or civilizations glimpsed or even found there?  As a player I finally
learned to spend that week practicing skills or (better) digging through
the computer for relevant info, but it always seemed to me it could be used
for something more exciting from time to time.  

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:33:29 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)

- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8935.emout04.mail.aol.com.856452808
Content-ID: <0_8935_856452808@emout04.mail.aol.com.127391>
Content-type: text/plain

In a message dated 97-02-20 01:40:42 EST, you write:

> 
>  How about a MS Word 6.0 format, or better yet a Adobe Acrobat version of
>  this file, there are a lot of us that don't have anything that can handle
>  MS Word '95.  Trying to read the file crashes my system.
>  
>  		    Thanks,
>  			Zane
>  
>  
attached MS Word 2.0 format, which more people may be able to read.

Marc Miller


- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8935.emout04.mail.aol.com.856452808
Content-ID: <0_8935_856452808@emout04.mail.aol.com.127392>
Content-type: application/octet-stream;
	name="UVD2.DOC"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

26UtAAAACQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAEAADIDAADxDgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALIB
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOAAAkAAAOAAAkACQOAAAAACQO
AAAAACQOAAAAACQOAAAAACQOAAAOADIOAAAAAAAAAAAAADIOAAAAADIOAAAAADIOAAAAADIO
AAAKADwOAAAKAAAAAAAAAEYOAAA7AIIOAAAWAJgOAAAAAJgOAAAAAJgOAAAAAJgOAAAAAJgO
AAAAAJgOAAAAAJgOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAJgOAAA0AMwOAAAlAPEOAAAAAPEOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgADAAEA
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAE2RhdGEgIEM6XFxXRlczMTFcXERlc2t0b3BcXEZpbGluZyBTeXN0ZW1cXDA1IFRy
YXZlbGxlclxcVmVoaSBDYXJkIDIgRGF0YS5kb2MgFBUNClZlaGljbGUgTmFtZSAvIE1vZGVs
DQdNQ3INBw0HDQcNBw0HDQcNB0Vudmlyb25tZW50DQdEaW1lbnNpb25zDQdNYXNzDQcNBw0H
DQcJCUwJVwlIDQcNBw0HDQdFbmR1cmFuY2UNB1NwZWVkMSAoQ3Jvc3MgQ291bnRyeSk6DQcN
Bw0HDQdNYXg6IAlDcnVpc2U6IAlNaW46DQcNBw0HRnVlbCBUeXBlDQdTcGVlZDIgKFJvYWQp
Og0HDQcNBw0HTWF4OiAJQ3J1aXNlOiAJTWluOg0HDQcNB0FjY29tbW9kYXRpb25zDQdBcm1v
cg0HDQcNBw0HDQcNBw0HDQdDYXJnbw0HDQcNBw0HDQcNBw0HDQdPcGVyYXRvciBTa2lsbA0H
DQcNBw0HDQcNBw0HQ29tbWVudHMNBw0HDQcNBw0HDQcNBw0HDQcNBw0HDQdVVkQgQ2FyZAkw
MDItMDAwDQoSeCABiAEAjaAFjtACj9ACkNACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIAB
AACBAQAAzgEAAM8BAADQAQAA0gEAAB4CAAAgAgAAIQIAACICAAAjAgAAJAIAACcCAABVAgAA
VwIAAGoCAABwAgAApAIAAKYCAAAgAwAAMgMAAPjw6Obi3trW0s7KxsK+urayrqqmAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAABwEABgAEAAwHAAAGAAQADAcAAAYABAAQBwAABgAEAAwHAAAGAAQAEAcAAAYABAAM
BwAABgAEABAHAAAGAAQADAcAAAYABAAQBwEABgAEAAwHAAAGAAQAEAcBAAYABAAMBwAABgAE
ABAHAQAGAAQADAcAAAYABAAMBwEABgAEAAgCAAIADgACQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAA4AAEAAAAAA
AAAAAAAABAAOAAJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQUgAEAANIBAADoAQAA7QEAAO8BAADxAQAA8wEAAPUB
AAD3AQAA+QEAAAYCAAASAgAAGAIAABoCAAAcAgAAHgIAACcCAAApAgAAKwIAAC0CAAA4AgAA
UQIAAFMCAAD48vLy2NLS0riysrKykox+eHhYUlJSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAAAAAAAAABgBAAAfAAAAAAAAABgBGQGUSACZ
OP+aKgAEuP8TBm4MyRLpEwAAAAASAAkACQAAAAAACQAJAAkAAAAAAAkACQASAAAABQAAAAAA
AAAYAQAADQAAAAAAAAAPDgAErQC7AX0DPwUCAAAAGAEAAAUAAAAAAAAAGAEAAB8AAAAAAAAA
GAEZAZRIAJlg/5oqAAS4/xMGbgzJEukTAAAJABIAAAAJAAAACQAJAAAACQAAAAkACQAAABIA
AAAFAAAAAAAAABgBAAAZAAAAAAAAABgBGQGUSACZOP+aHgADuP9uDMkS6RMAAAAAEgAAAAkA
AAAAAAkAAAASAAAABQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAGQAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmRD/mh4AA7j/bgzJEukT
AAASABIAAAAJAAAAEgAJAAAAEgAAAAUAAAAAAAAAGAEAAAcAAAAAAAAADwUAAUgSAhZTAgAA
VQIAAFcCAABsAgAAbgIAAHACAAB7AgAAiwIAAI0CAACPAgAAkQIAAKYCAACoAgAAqgIAALoC
AADBAgAAwwIAAMUCAADHAgAAyQIAAMsCAADm4NXPta+vr5WPhH5kXl5eRD4+PgAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAGQAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmWD/mh4AA7j/bgzJEukT
AAAJABIAAAAJAAAACQAJAAAAEgAAAAUAAAAAAAAAGAEAABkAAAAAAAAAGAEZAZRIAJk4/5oe
AAO4/xMGyRLpEwAAAAASAAkACQAAAAAACQAJABIAAAAFAAAAAAAAABgBAAAKAAAAAAAAAA8I
AAIxBB0JAAAYAQAABQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAGQAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmWD/mh4AA7j/EwbJEukT
AAAAABIAAAAJAAAAAAAJAAAAEgAAAAUAAAAAAAAAGAEAABkAAAAAAAAAGAEZAZRIAJk4/5oe
AAO4/xMGyRLpEwAAAAASAAkACQAAAAAACQAJABIAAAAFAAAAAAAAABgBAAAKAAAAAAAAAA8I
AAIxBB0JAAAYAQAABQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAGQAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmWD/mh4AA7j/EwbJEukT
AAAJABIAAAAJAAAACQAJAAAAEgAAFMsCAADNAgAAzwIAANYCAADYAgAA2gIAANwCAADeAgAA
4AIAAOICAADkAgAA9AIAAPYCAAD4AgAA+gIAAPwCAAD+AgAAAAMAAAoDAAAMAwAADgMAABAD
AAASAwAA5uDg4MbAwMCmoKCghoCAgGZgYExGRgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
BQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAEwAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmWD/mhIAArj/yhLqEwAACQASAAAAEgAAAAUA
AAAAAAAAGAEAABkAAAAAAAAAGAEZAZRIAJk4/5oeAAO4/24MyRLpEwAAAAASAAkACQAAAAAA
CQAJABIAAAAFAAAAAAAAABgBAAAZAAAAAAAAABgBGQGUSACZYP+aHgADuP9uDMkS6RMAAAAA
EgAAAAkAAAAAAAkAAAASAAAABQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAGQAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmTj/mh4AA7j/
bgzJEukTAAAAABIAAAAJAAAAAAAJAAkAEgAAAAUAAAAAAAAAGAEAABkAAAAAAAAAGAEZAZRI
AJlg/5oeAAO4/24MyRLpEwAAAAASAAAACQAAAAkACQAAABIAAAAFAAAAAAAAABgBAAAZAAAA
AAAAABgBGQGUSACZOP+aHgADuP9uDMkS6RMAAAAAEgAAAAkAAAAAAAkAAAASAAAWEgMAABQD
AAAWAwAAGAMAABoDAAAcAwAAHgMAACADAAAyAwAA7Obm0szMuLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAcAAAAAAAAADwUAAUgSAgATAAAAAAAAABgBGQGUSACZ
YP+aEgACuP/KEuoTAAAAABIAEgASAAAABQAAAAAAAAAYAQAAEwAAAAAAAAAYARkBlEgAmWD/
mhIAArj/yhLqEwAAAAASAAAAEgAAAAUAAAAAAAAAGAEAABMAAAAAAAAAGAEZAZRIAJk4/5oS
AAK4/8oS6hMAAAAAEgAAABIAAAgAAAMAABEADgAARgADABQAAAAAAAkECgAHAAAAAAAAAAEA
AN4AAAAAsgEAAAAAMgMAAIABAAAyAwAAAgCAAQAAMgMAAAMAOwAKEABUbXMgUm1uAAlgAFN5
bWJvbAAHIABIZWx2ABIQAFRpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbgAIIABBcmlhbAAAAAAAAE4AAABPAAAA
swEAABMoFP8VACIAAgADAwAAAADQAgAAAAAAAAAAX5sSBluiEgZMKxIGBAABAAAAAQAAACgA
AADoAAAAAAAlAAAABU5hbWUJAAAAC01hcmMgTWlsbGVyC01hcmMgTWlsbGVyAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA==

- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8935.emout04.mail.aol.com.856452808--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:02:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: HG to T4 armor conversions

Hi.

Quoth jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN):

> Your system is a straight multiplication of HG by 10.  This
> starts out proportionately far below the Official T4 values,
> and rapidly climbs extremely far above them.  A not-much-more-
> difficult conversion would be to use (HG*5)+15.  That would
> give the values in the following table (yours and HG included
> for comparison).

 <Snip: some very good approximations of the official conversion>

Thanks for the response. The approximations you suggest are all very
good ones. Unfortunately, the problem (as I see it) of converting HG
armor values to T4 is not one of finding a good approximation. You see,
HG has exactly 22 different armor values available to ships of TL15
(0-21), so a lookup table will suffice nicely, no approximation is
necessary. The problem is, if you go by the official conversion
formulae, that the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM armor available in HG comes out to
be 99 in T4. While 99 is a high armor rating, I don't believe that is
corresponds to a maximum at TL12, much less TL15.

While T4 does not supply an ABSOLUTE maximum on the armor factor of a
starship, it does yield a sort of effective maximum. At TL15 according
to T4 (extrapolating the tables with a power law), if you devote about
half of a 100,000-ton ship's volume to armor, you can get an armor
rating of 210. In HG, if you devote about half of a ship's volume to
armor, you'll get an armor value of 21 (at TL15). So 210 seemed like a
good effective maximum to me, and zero seemed like a good minimum, so my
arbitrary conversion table was born.

The root cause of the problems in the HG-to-T4 armor conversions, as I
see it, lies in the old HG-to-Striker armor conversion which equates any
given HG armor value with some constant thickness of steel. HG armor
scales as a constant fraction of starship volume independent of size.
Obviously, this is not true of steel-plate thickness, which will not be
independent of starship size. 

Obviously, the HG-to-Striker conversion system is completely arbitrary,
since it makes no physical sense. I prefer (for reasons of game balance)
my own arbitrary conversion system, which also makes no physical sense.
A system which WOULD make physical sense would be something like:

1) Multiply the HG armor value by the ship displacement.
2) Multiply result #1 by some play-balancing factor.
3) Using the "Starships" USD table, cross reference result #2 to get
result #3.
4) Multiply result #3 by some factor (say, 10).
5) Voila! the number you have now (#4) is the T4 armor value.

Obviously, the choice of the play-balancing factor in step 2 will be
crucial. My guess is that an appropriate value may be found in the range
of PBF (play-balancing factor) = from 0.01 to 0.1.

Not a bad system, if I say so myself. But not much better than an
arbitrary look-up table either; the added complexity of the system
outlined above adds little to the game. It does serve to prevent
small-craft abuse by gear-head players, but that's never been a problem
in my campaign, and it can be easily curtailed by a referee's interdict.

Food for thought.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:21:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Re:T4 Gripes

Hi.

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>

> You should do the comparison to the 1 year method in CT Books 4-7 or 
> in the MT PM for Scouts, Merchants, Mercenaries, and Naval 
> characters.  The number of skills earned each term is about the same 
> as what you've listed for T4.

Hmmm. I disagree. In T4, you get a skill every year. In books 4-7, you
get a skill every year you get a decent assignment and make a skill
roll, which is about 1/2 the time. So on average, I'd guess T4
characters have about twice as many skills as book4-7 characters.

Also, there's that college thing. In T4, you get an ATTRIBUTE INCREASE
(much better than a skill with the new task system) every year PLUS a
skill every year you spend in school. Then, there's the second career
rules; CT characters had only one career. You fail re-enlistment, your
skil increases are over. In T4, your skill increases do not effectively
end until your player says they do. T4 characters are much more
high-powered than CT characters overall.

When I take NPC's from old CT products, I double all their skill levels
to keep them from being underpowered with respect to my players'
characters.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:41:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Plastic Batteries  in Traveller

Been cruising the web as a normaly do, saw the thing about the JHU pplastic 
battery off of CNN Interactive, and my little gearhead mind got thinking.  I 
got out my copy of 3G3 and saw that a 3v battery at tl-8 generates only 
about 250J per gram.  and most batteries are much larger than a gram.  So a 
fatutzed and fudged around a bit, advanced the real life late TL-8  product 
to about mid TL-9 and came up with this new product.  I wonder If Mr. Porter 
has any plans to impliment this new tech in either 3G^3 or Emperor's 
Arsenal.

TL-9 Plastic Battery
All rates are per cubic centemeter.

0.5g
500j storage
5j/sec max discharge rate

For example a cell of this plastic 1cm square and 10cm long (10m^3) would 
have 5KJ of energy stored within it and power something up to 50Watts for 
100seconds before recharge, or a 50 Watt weapon with 100 charges,  and only 
mass 5 grams.

Think of the possiblities, this could drasticaly change the mass of the TL-9 
laser weapon's power pack for example,  or get rid of it completely by 
putting in a 100 shot "magazine" in the grip.
Example magazine
10cm x 5cm x 1cm is 50cm^3
25g   25000j@250j/sec or shot.  100shots.
(250 x 0.735/10mm diameter)^0.5 = 18.375DV
(18.375^0.43)-1= 2.5 or 3 Traveller Damage
Efficiency(which were not figured)  may drop that to 2.

I don't know the exact stats for the TL-9 pistol in the T4 book.  But this 
was just a rough estimate.  Lucky for me I have eveything in the office with 
me packed and ready to go to JAXCON! :)


Oh and yes, my appologies to Allen Shock and the TLWH Crew.  Mack Guyvr was 
in la-la land.  Meaning I was out of town that night, Also had to shop and 
pack for the CON.  was no where near a computer from 5pmEST to about 11pm 
EST.

I am at the office  currently, and will be leaving for JAX from there.  So 
as of 5pm EST on 051-0001(0?) (Feb 20, 1997).....

Planet X goes off the air immediately....we keep...aw forget it...you know 
the schpiel by now.....<click>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:49:20 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)

>attached MS Word 2.0 format, which more people may be able to read.
>Marc Miller

Many thanks.

While I didn't like to *complain* about the Word 7 file, I confess I'm
amongst those for who it wasn't very useful!

This is much better!

tc
"And looks great."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:29:47 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD update

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote (with some stuff sniped):
> 1) Be affordable by your average planetary government or megacorp.

I think we should set a specific price like 500Mcr, 750Mcr or whatever others
feel is appropriate.  The current Merc Cruiser in "Starships" has a price of
285Mcr while the old CT ship was about 632Mcr.
 
> 2) Be able to transport a significant number of troops (suggestions,
> anyone?) plus vehicles and equipment, and provide necessary repair and
> maintenance facilities for said troops and vehicles.

CT has 31 troops and the current version has 40.  My preference is for 40.

> 4) Be capable of getting the troops onto the ground in the face of enemy
> fire, whether by drop ships or landing.

Decent Grav APCs should be able to do this.  Should their cost be part of the
ship or not. Personally I don't think Grav APC prices should be part of the
Cruiser's price.  However, I think the Merc Cruiser should be able to land,
allowing it to provide a base of operations for the troops.

Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970218100846.2618A-100000@linda.teleport.com>

<< While I have not seen a specific reference to this rule in T4, in MT is
was stated that if you have a charactor functioning in more than one role
on a starship, he could not apply the skill bonuses to either.  In other
words, if you have a Pilot-4/Navigator-2 functioning as both pilot and
Navigator, you effectively have a Pilot-1/Navigator-1.  (Astrogation was
not a skill then) >>

That seems a bit harsh. How about dividing all the skills by the number of 
jobs (rounding down)? The above character would then perform at Pilot-2/ 
Nav-1. If he also had Computer-3, and was using this as well, he'd perform 
at Pilot-1/Nav-0/Computer-1.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:38:30 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

        From some unknown location lost on Gvurrdon sector <G>, Starwolf
(starwolf@sn.no) wrote:

(Snip)
>have noticed as most you that the surface area of the jumpdrive eats
>away available space as the drives and ships gets larger. Just because
>of this I have decided that (in my campaign) the grid is underneath
>the hull surface. Thus not taking up valuable space. The reason to
>this is that the grid doesn't have any surface hit location. And from
>what I can understand from SOpM the grid creates a force field that
>extends out from the hull. And probalby through it. I there was some
(Snip)

        Hmmmm.... well, I usually handle J-space affairs with
not-very-detailed explanations, but one could think that the field that
creates the grid is basically a boundary which effectively cuts real space
in two, so the point is that everything inside has been cut off from the
main component of real space. But, given that one usually thinks that a
breach on the grid does not totally destroys the possibility of jump (that
would be the case if we are to be rigorous on the "separating space" stuff),
then we must assume that the field created from the grid extends "a bit"
away from the grid. So, a very small breach is covered naturally by the
field extending from the rest of the grid. A greater breach is not easily
covered, and jumpspace gets into your ship, "pushing", before the field closes.
        But, then we can think that the field extends "a bit" in all
directions, i.e. it has positive width. So, it can naturally include a
(small) percentage of the space outside the hull. This has two immediate
consequences:
        1.- The grid can be inside the hull, underneath the surface. In
fact, it is better this way because minor impacts on the hull cannot damage
the grid.
        2.- The jump field of a ship will "naturally" include relatively
small auxiliary craft in external grapples. Of course, the total
displacement matters, but, as long as it fits, one needs not to worry about
covering the auxiliary craft with supplementary grids, and so on.
        In fact, suppose one need to cover an external auxiliary craft with
a lanthanum grid (if the aux. craft is not relatively small). Then, the grid
under the craft should not be activated during the jump. Otherwise, one will
cut the space in three (external space, the ship, and the aux.craft), not in
two, and maybe the inaccuracies of a jump will result in slightly different
time travels and destination points for the two subspaces that the grid
created.. so your ship arrives now and here, but your auxiliary craft
arrived an hour earlier and ten thousand kilometers away.
        He, he, this could make a good one for novice travellers. They did
not contract an astrogator and so nobody told them to deactivate part of the
grid inside the main hull before jumping with an attached launch. And now,
the launch is missing... in fact, it appeared 12 hours ago near the
destination planet and was retrieved by an independent trader who is going
to sell it at the local starport. Imagine the PC's faces when they see it.
And imagine the subsequent legal(?) battle.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:45:44 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Swing to the Right

FKiesche@concentric.net wrote:

>I'm thinking of dropping a middle ages Japan in one of the "reserved for your 
>use" sectors...

        Do you mean you haven't done it yet? <G>
        Obviously, a RoM colonization ship from Japan settled a planet and,
during the Long Night, the culture experienced a tech level regression and
kept traditional ways... I suggest you put them in Delphi in Milieu Zero.
This way, you could made them give some colour to the Margaret faction a
thousand years later... in fact, remember that the Margaret faction was a
bit "corporative", right? So it makes sense. ;-) Go ahead!
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:52:51 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles (Request)

> attached MS Word 2.0 format, which more people may be able to read.
> 
> Marc Miller

Thanks, Marc, for thinking of us lowly Word 2.0 users.  If it had 
been in 6.0, I wouldn't have been able to read and print it.

Kenneth.
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:03:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

> When I read through the chapter on vehicles, I find them less than
> satisfying, primarily because they require some work by the referee or the
> player before they can be used. I would like to create a set of Vehicle
> cards, each with entries on basic data. When a group uses a vehicle, they
> would consult the card which would tell them basic performance data, etc.

Great idea Marc. 

> 
> These are the data fields I envision for the vehicles.

I'd like to see
 
Acceleration1Max
Acceleration1Cruise
Acceleration1Min
Acceleration2Max etc...

included. Can't help it - I'm a physicist.

 
 
> This is a list of the vehicles I envision being covered to begin.
 
How about:

Personal mover (electric)
Personal mover (grav)

These would be compact, automated one-person transports.


'Emissary' escape boat - no Imperial embassy should be without one. A 
10-person, hi-G, stealthy boat for getting essential personnel off planet 
safely.

 
'Pegasus' Balistic Transport. A behemoth designed by McDD in the 60's for 
quick suborbital travel.


There's also my favorite from 101 Vehicles, the 'Venery' police speeder. 
A grav unit, cockpit, and VRF Gauss Cannon. From the description of Sylea 
in M0, I'd say these beauties would be thick as flys in the sky.

Eamon.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:31:22 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD update

At 10:55 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>        5) Lastly, I think that the prize for the Second THUDDD ought to be
>a beautiful ASCII iridium-plated rock personally autographed by Sir Arameth
>Gridlore... if Sir Arameth is willing, of course :)

"Why gladly!  I'd be honored to bestow the award on the winning design team.
If Famile Spofalum happens to win, I'll even deliver the rock personally.
From high orbit.  With a mass driver."

No Arameth doesn't hold a grudge.. he strangles them.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:56:26 +0000
From: mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk
Subject: Re: T4-Gripes

>>The MT system is a good system.  It was my system of choice before T4,
but the thing I like about T4 is that you get the full benefit of your
attributes with it.

Every point of your stat (or in the case of my system, every other
point) increases your chance of success.  In MT, there are only three
benefit points--at a stat of 5, 10, and 15.

You can only improve at +1, +2, or +3 due to your abilities.  In T4,
you get maximum benefit of every point (or every other point).

Let me ask you a question.  In MT, what is the difference between a
Dex 6 and a Dex 8.  The answer to this, realistically, is not much.
Both give you a +1 on your task throw, and so does Dex 5, 7, and 9.

Under T4, the difference is 2 whole points of benefit, and every Dex
increase increases your chance to hit.  Under my system, you still get
a better increase with each Dex level although it is only half that of
the T4 system (by design).

This is one of the things that convinced me that T4 had a superior
system to MT, and believe me, I was an ardent defender of the MT
system.

Kenneth.

For me this is the worst feature of T4. Attributes are more important 
than skills, and cost the same to aquire during character creation.
A combat based character will put the two highest stat dice in Dex 
and add +1 dex untill they reach 15, since this will increase their 
ability with all the combat skills (pistol, rifle, laser etc.). 
Likewise a more thoughtfull character will have Int/Edu of 15 and 
lots of skills  at 1's and 2's meaning they can hardly fail difficult 
(3D?) tasks.
 As other people have pointed out: skills are usually half the level of 
stats, and therefore are worth half the value, if that!

The main problem (IMHO) is that the range of stats is from 1-15. In 
other stat based games I play and run- Torg/Masterbook, James Bond, and 
Feng-Shui the actual range of stats for any characteristic is much 
smaller:
Torg 7-13 usually,
Bond 5-15 max, but usually 9-12 for agent level characters,
Feng-Shui 5-10 (except Chi) and even better, the cost of raising a 
skill with experience is the new skill+stat total.

I much prefere the skill system in Heavy-Gear by Dream Pod-9.
There skill level is the number of D6 that are rolled, use the highest 
number rolled +1 per additional 6 and then add the stat bonous(-3 to 
+3). The elegence of this system is that natural talent - +ve stat, 
always helps but higher skills mean characters fail less often, less 
chance of rolling low on all the dice.
This is the system I am going to use for T4. Also the vehicle design 
system is much more flexible and Simpler!
Note it is also designed to be both a miniture battle game and an 
RPG, oh and I ignore all the giant robots, (large powered armour 
suits).

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #971
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 20 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 972



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  T4 Gripes
Re: T4 task system
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Re: T4 gripes...
Mustering out
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #970
Re: T4 Gripes & A Better Task System 
Power Plants
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
Re: Re:T4 Gripes
MT Attributes
FS: Fifth Frontier War
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:08:55 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re:  T4 Gripes

> Actually this shows me that T4 character simply have more skills that CT
> or MT characters.  As I see it, CT character had pathetically few skills. 
> Given that 3-4 was defined as professional level (a profession Naval
> Architect had skill 4, a doctor needed Medical 3 to get a license...) Most
> character were rather limited, one-note, characters. 

Well put, John.

> MT made this notably better, and T4 has finally given character enough
> skills to be realistic (we're often playing highly trained PC's in their
> mid-late 30s, they should have more than the 12-16 points of skills MT
> usually produced. 
> 
> As a basic trend in gaming the number skills characters have has gone up
> in the past 20 years.  However, skill level 3 is enough to become a
> licensed physician and I see no reason at all to change the meaning of
> skill levels.  True, characters are no longer compatible, but they can be
> adapted. 


Thanks for stating our point--the same point--so succinctly.

Kenneth. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:03:39 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

> Could you send me a copy of your proposed T4 task system? I joined the list
> too late to see it, but from what I have gleaned from the replies, it sounds
> very workable.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Vince 


 

Just what the doctor ordered, Dr. Vince...

And since this is the fifth private e-mail I've gotten about this, 
I'm going to post my reply to you on the TML.  I hope you don't mind.

Actually, my system is pretty simple.  I'll give you a run down on 
the system and let you in on some of my thinking that led to its 
creation.

Although I think that the T4 system is the best Traveller system yet,
better even than MT (which used to be my system of choice), I had two
basic problems with it.

1)  By just adding skill and attribute, the system unfairly weighted 
towards the attributes, and you run into problems like this:

	Jan has a Pilot-1 skill and a Dex-11.  Rob has a Pilot-4 skill and a 
	Dex-6.

	Since Jan's target number is 12 and Rob's target number is 10, Jan 
	should pilot the ship even though Rob is more skilled than Jan by 
	far.

2)  And my other problem lied with the task difficulty.  The chance 
of success for the high end tasks, Staggering and Impossible, was too 
high.  To explain, here's another example.

	Ulric has an Edu-9 and Computer-4 giving him a target number of 13.  
	On the T4 4D Impossible difficulty roll, this guy has a 44.37% 
	chance of success at the hardest task he can ever attempt.

Yes, his Computer skill is good, but what about those guys with a 5 
or even a 7 skill level?  And what about those with a stat in the 
teens?  A stat-12, skill-5 character would have a 79.48% chance at 
the Impossible under this system.

Something was obviously wrong.  The success chances were definitely 
too high.

I set about to fix the task system with these two problems in mind 
and one primary goal.  I didn't want to re-create the wheel.  I 
wanted a simple fix that would allow for easy conversion and still 
look like the T4 system as written in the T4 Main Book.

In other words, I didn't want to put a lot of time into creating a 
totally new system or converting one from a previous Traveller 
edition or another game.

Simple, playable, guided my thoughts.  Besides, that was the spirit 
of T4 anyway--a return to the simpler CT style of play.

I got a lot of help from several people here on the TML, and after 
about two weeks of work, I came up with this system.  This one is 
actually the second version that I came up with, and one TMLer called 
it KBv1.1.  The name has stuck.

So, here's KBv1.1.

First, to tackle the target number problem, I use this system:

	Target Number = (Stat / 2) + (Skill x 2)
	round up in all cases

This decreases the value of the stat in the calculation, but still 
gives it an important role in the target number calculation (as it 
should be).  This also increases the value of the skill level as a 
component of the target number.  The total equation also tends to 
reduce the overall target number, which helps out in reducing the 
chance of success (the second problem).

Now, let's fix the difficulty system.  After doing analysis on the 
chance of success of various combinations of dice, I found out two 
things.  The 1/2 die are a necessary evil (which I really tried to 
get rid of and did not like at first--now, I'm used to them and 
accept them) because they flatten out the curve.  Without them, say 
when using a 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, 6D system, the curve is too steep, 
and the lower target numbers are way too low to give the players any 
type of a chance with their average level-1 and level-2 skills.

The second thing I found out was that most of the difficulty 
categories in T4 were not broken.  Easy, Average, Difficult, and 
Formidable all gave good percentage chances of success at all target 
numbers.

So, I left them as is and focussed on the Staggering and Impossible 
categories.  After defining the problem like this, fixing it was 
easy.

	To fix the difficulty system, simply change the dice rolled for 
	Staggering tasks to 4D instead of 3.5D and change Impossible to 5D 
	instead of 4D.

	Staggering = 4D
	Impossible = 5D

Here's the percentages for any who want to check this system.  I'll 
give you all the categories.

Easy Tasks (1.5D)
				SS = 5.56%
				SF = 0.00%

Target Number		Success Chance
2				5.56
3				16.67
4				33.33
5				50.00
6				66.67
7				83.33
8				94.44
9+				100.00



Average Tasks (2D)

				SS = 2.78%
				SF = 2.78%

Target Number		Success Chance
2				2.78
3				8.33
4				16.67
5				27.78
6				41.67
7				58.33
8				72.22
9				83.33
10				91.67
11+				97.22



Difficult Tasks (2.5D)

				SS = 0.93
				SF = 2.78

Target Number		Success Chance
3				0.93
4				3.7
5				9.26
6				17.59
7				28.7
8				42.59
9				57.41
10				71.3
11				82.41
12				90.74
13				85.37
14+				97.22



Formidable Tasks (3D)

				SS = 0.46
				SF = 7.41

Target Number		Success Chance
3				0.46
4				1.85
5				4.63
6				9.26
7				16..2
8				25.93
9				37.5
10				50.0
11				62.5
12				74.07
13				82.41
14				87.96
15				91.2
16+				92.59



Staggering Tasks (4D)

				SS = 0.08%
				SF = 13.19%

Target Number		Success Chance
4				0..08
5				0.39
6				1.16
7				2.7
8				5.4
9				9.72
10				15.9
11				23.92
12				33.56
13				44.37
14				55.17
15				65.05
16				73.3
17				79.48
18				83.33
19				85.49
20				86.5
21+				86.81



Impossible Tasks (5D)

				SS = 0.01%
				SF = 19.62%

Target Number		Success Chance
5				0.01
6				0.08
7				0.27
8				0.72
9				1.62
10				3.24
11				5.88
12				9.8
13				15.2
14				22.15
15				30.39
16				39.45
17				48.71
18				57.46
19				64.98
20				70.91
21				75.15
22				77.85
23				79.33
24				80.04
25				80.31
26+				80.38



In a nutshell, the KBv1.1 system is two simple changes to the T4 task 
system as written.

	1)  Use the new target number calculation (half stat, twice 
	attribute)

	2)  Change Staggering to 4D;  change Impossible to 5D



Let's go back and test the examples I gave you above.

The target number problem where the Pilot-4 character had a lower 
chance of success than the Pilot-1 character because the lower 
leveled character had a higher (but not a whole lot higher) stat.

	Jan:  Pilot-1, Dex-11
	Rob:  Pilot-4, Dex-6

Under KBv1.1, Jan's target number is 8 whereas Rob's target number is 
11.

	The system works, and Rob can take advantage of his much higher 
	skill.

And now the difficulty system problem for Staggering and Impossible 
tasks.

	Ulric:  Edu-9, Computer-4

	Before KBv1.1, target number was 13 and success chance at the 
	Impossible was 44.37%.

	After KBv1.1, target number is still 13, but success chance at the 
	Impossible is reduced to 15.2%.

	Again, the system works.  Objectives accomplished.

Dr. Vince, if you have any comments on this system, I would love to 
hear them--good or bad.  I always welcome comments.

Hope you find the system useful,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:15:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

At 08:10 PM 2/18/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> According to the rule you need a pilot and an astrogator if you
>> have thrusters/HEPlaR and Jump Drives. Why is that. What the hell
>> does the astrogator do while the pilot flies in real space, and what
>> does he do while in jump-space. An astrogator should just be one of the
>> crew with education in the astrogation task. I would never pay on crew
>> member to calculate some numbers for a couple of hours and then do
>> nothing for over a week. Am I missing something.

I had the chance to ask a UAL flight crew this question.  I gave the basic
backround (the co-pilot used to game, so that helped), and asked what a
navigator/astrogator did.

The basic answer was that on large passenger planes, the navigator/co-pilot
double-checks the pilot's decisions, and keeps tabs on what the computer is
doing.

Then the horror stories began.  They told me that one of the main jobs of
the second man during take-off/landing is simply to look out the window.  A
747 landing in Cairo had to abort when a truck suddenly drove onto the
runway without warning.  Also, computer Nav systems occasionaly fail, and
the co-pilot once had to fly most of the way from LA to Hawaii on dead
reconning and checking stars from a blacked out cockpit!  (At least until
they were within radio range of Honolulu.)

When asked specifically about Traveller, they all agreed that they would
definantly want someone trained to double-check the numbers put out by the
ship's computer.  They also wanted to know where to sign up.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:41:14 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: T4 gripes...

Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:25:54 +0000, "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
[Regarding Impossible tasks]
>What percentage chance would you give a character with skill-6 and
>stat-12?

As someone who doesn't use the Traveller core rules (I use the
background) I will say that the term "impossible" says to
me that only the most superior individuals will be able
 do this at all, and even then it should be along shot.
I don't think any character should have more than a
10% chance at an "impossible task".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:44:35 +0000
From: mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk
Subject: Mustering out

Hello everybody, 
I've only recently joined the list and I would like to say hello. I 
have bought every set of traveller rules published, from the 
origional 3 black books to T4, because it was the best Sci-Fi RPG.

I don't know if this has been asked / answered before but I have a 
question regarding mustering out (MO).
T4 characters can now change career, so how does this affect MO.
1) Do they roll for each career seperately,
2) Only for the last career,
3) For all their careers but only on the last carrer tables.
This can make a major difference with the bonous's for ranks, e.g.
James Carter age 34
career history Terms 1&2 Army reaching O3
Term 3 Marine rank O3  (Army rank -1 + 1)
Term 4 Law Enforcement O3 (Marine-1 +1)

So does he roll
1) 4 times on army tables (2 terms + 2 for O3), 3 times on marine 
tables (1 term +2 for O3) and 3 times on the law enforcement table 
(1 term +2 for O3) for a total of 10 rolls.
2) 3 times on law enforcement (1 term + 2 for O3).
3) 6 times on the law enforcement table (6 terms + 2 for O3).
 As you can see it makes a huge difference either 3, 6 or 10 rolls.

If anyone can help me I would be very gratefull,
yours
          Mark Jones
Roleplaying since '76 Traveller since '79.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:44:36 +0000
From: mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #970

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:43:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re:  T4 Gripes

cut

>Actually this shows me that T4 character simply have more skills that
>CT or MT characters.  As I see it, CT character had pathetically few
>skills. Given that 3-4 was defined as professional level (a profession
>Naval Architect had skill 4, a doctor needed Medical 3 to get a
>license...) Most character were rather limited, one-note, characters.

>MT made this notably better, and T4 has finally given character
>enough skills to be realistic (we're often playing highly trained
>PC's in their mid-late 30s, they should have more than the 12-16
>points of skills MT usually produced.

>As a basic trend in gaming the number skills characters have has gone
>up in the past 20 years.  However, skill level 3 is enough to become a
>licensed physician and I see no reason at all to change the meaning of
>skill levels.  True, characters are no longer compatible, but they can
>be adapted.

>- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

Remember that MT characters had a secondary stat of Int + Edu =Exp? 
This was the maximum number of skills a character could have.
I think that T4 characters have too many skills, at too high a level, 
and overall MT was better. This especially so if you consider medic-3 
to be a qualified Doctor.

The main problem IMHO is that with the importance of stats over 
skills, the designers have had to be too profligate with skills 
during character generation in order to compensate.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:42:09 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Gripes & A Better Task System 

> > The guy's got a stat of level of 14--just one below human
> > maximum--and a skill level of 6, twice the equivalent skill that a
> > doctor has.  Some characters never even see a level 6 skill.
> > 
> > What kind of a percentage would you give this character on an
> > Impossible task.  I'm just curious.

> 	This charecters chance of success on an Impossible Task for a charecter
> with Skill=6 and Attribute=14(E) should be about 0.5 %.  

If you are going to assign this low a chance to someone with those 
levels of skills and stats, then why even allow it at all?

What you are saying is that a person has to have the ultimate level 
of attribute humanly possible AND have the highest level of skill 
anyone has ever heard of to even have a less than 1% chance of 
succeeding at an Impossible task.

Don't you think you should re-think this?

However what we
> are now calling an Impossible Task should be renamed Nearly Impossible
> and this charecter should have about a 2 or 2.5% chance of success.

So the wording is what you have a problem with?  Naturally, 
impossible usually means that there is no chance of accomplishing a 
task, but we are talking about a task system here.  If there's any 
chance at all of accomplishing the task, then we know that the no 
chance of success definition doesn't apply.

Most of us recognize that Impossible in this context means that it is 
extemely hard for a character to accomplish a feat, but it is still 
possible.  To have a decent chance of success at this, a character 
must be highly skilled and have good natural ability.

Your 2-2.5% chance of success for the god-like character you've cited 
is still way too low for my tastes.  I think that Impossible tasks 
should be damn difficult to execute and have a high chance of extreme 
failure, but under your definition, most characters would never even 
have any chance.

Maybe you should create a new difficulty categorey for your game and 
call it Incredible.

> This is possible using my Task System.  This Task System is a Modified
> MegaTraveller System & it owes some credit to similar systems others
> have posted.  Here it is.
> 
> A New Task System for Traveller:
> 

I think that you are missing the point here, Peter.  My system was 
designed to be an easy fix to the already simple T4 task system.  
You've recreated the wheel here, and while this might be all and good 
for your game, many of us want to stay as close as possible to the 
original T4 rules.

I make a lot of rule modifications--to add detail to areas that I 
think need it, but I rarely re-write the entire system-- except in 
the case of the xp system.  I think that this is totally broken, but 
I will still stay close to the spirit of the system designed in T4 
when I make my changes.

Reading over your system, I realize that I'm  going to have to learn 
a whole new system if I'm going to use it.  And, for every thing I do 
with the system, I will have to convert from the original material.

That spells, to me, a lot of unnecessary work.  I mean, why buy the 
T4 supplements?  You've created your own game.  Just use the 
background material, and you're off.

But for me, no thank you.  I like T4.  I think it needs some tweaking 
here and there, but the basis of the system is good.


Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:44:34 +0000
From: mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk
Subject: Power Plants

One of my main hates in Traveller since High Guard is that not only 
are lower tech level power plants larger, leaving less free space, 
but they cost more. Rather than basing cost on mass I price them on 
power output, i.e. a tech 15 power plant costs the same as a tech 12 
power plant. I found that the high cost of lower tech PP's meant that 
low tech starships were much less economic and if you look at all the 
TNE ships they are built at TL15. Since the average steller tech was 
12, why are all the working starships built at a TL 3 higher than most 
of the available starports?

Likewise I think that starships should be cheaper but much more 
expensive to maintain. At present once a ship is payed off it is 
impossible not to run it at a significant profit, even a scout / 
seeker can trabsport cargo profitibly.

Mark Jones
Roleplaying since '76, Traveller since 79.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:58:42 GMT
From: starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf)
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:38:30 +0100, Carlos Alos-Ferrer
<alos@merlin.fae.ua.es> wrote:
>        He, he, this could make a good one for novice travellers. They =
did
>not contract an astrogator and so nobody told them to deactivate part of=
 the
>grid inside the main hull before jumping with an attached launch. And =
now,
>the launch is missing... in fact, it appeared 12 hours ago near the
>destination planet and was retrieved by an independent trader who is =
going
>to sell it at the local starport. Imagine the PC's faces when they see =
it.
>And imagine the subsequent legal(?) battle.
Neat :)

The rules in FF&S somewhat takes into account for the extra volume a
external craft adds to the hull. But it does not mention the hull
grid. The solution may be that the grid is thicker or more just more
of it at the external grapples, making it possible to include the
external craft, without the hassle of designing jump grid on external
crafts.



- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Myhre                 |"Never worry about theory as long as the=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf | machinery does what it's supposed to do."
Universal Internet          |
            Number: 127772  |                  -- R. A. Heinlein

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:58:33 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Re:T4 Gripes

> Hmmm. I disagree. In T4, you get a skill every year. In books 4-7, you
> get a skill every year you get a decent assignment and make a skill
> roll, which is about 1/2 the time. So on average, I'd guess T4
> characters have about twice as many skills as book4-7 characters.

This is definitely not the case.  To compare, I didn't guess about 
how many skills a character gets per term in each system.  I compared 
actual characters generated with both systems.

T4 characters tended to have just a few more skill levels than ones 
created using the old 1 year method, but that's because T4 characters 
automatically get a skill every year and 1 year method characters 
must succeed in a roll to get a skill.

But, the characters were very comparable--especially if you used the 
brownie points allotted in the MT version of the 1 year method.

There are several ways that a GM can compensate, if he wants to, for 
the couple of level deficite in the old MT version.  One way is to 
allow a few more brownie points during character generation.  Another 
is to allow for some type of fix after the character is created--like 
count up the number of years he was in the career and compare to his 
total skill levels, then allow for some type of skill improvement.  
Or, you can make T4 characters roll for skills instead of making them 
automatic--this should make them real close.

And one thing you might do is just use them interchangable because 
they are that close.  I always found the 
deficit to be just 1-3 skill levels.  It was always less than 5.
> 
> Also, there's that college thing. In T4, you get an ATTRIBUTE INCREASE
> (much better than a skill with the new task system) every year PLUS a
> skill every year you spend in school. 

So use the T4 college rules before the character goes into the 1 year 
method.

 Then, there's the second career
> rules; CT characters had only one career. You fail re-enlistment, your
> skil increases are over.

I always used a house rule that allowed for career changes anyway.  
T4 has just made the idea legitimate.

 . T4 characters are much more
> high-powered than CT characters overall.
> 
> When I take NPC's from old CT products, I double all their skill levels
> to keep them from being underpowered with respect to my players'
> characters.

Oh, I agree completely with CT 4 year characters.  I may not use your 
system of beefing them up, but they definitely need improvement to 
work in the T4 universe.

But, then again, CT 4 year characters had the same problem with CT 
characters generated with the 1 year method.

And this brings me back to my original comment.  The T4 system fixes 
that old problem.  4 year characters are now compatible with 1 year 
characters.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:23:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: MT Attributes

>Let me ask you a question.  In MT, what is the difference between a
>Dex 6 and a Dex 8.  The answer to this, realistically, is not much.
>Both give you a +1 on your task throw, and so does Dex 5, 7, and 9.

Dex 8 is better than dex 6 because you are less likely to lose the bonus
while injured. Remember, Kenneth, that MT's modifiers are based upon
Current (wounded) attributes, and thatdamge points in MT convert into dice
of attribute damage. (albeit, this conversion occurs AFTER combat, thus
making combat easier to ref, imho; this is realistic due to adrenaline.)
Also, higher attributes above th break point mean less reduction in
attribute bonus from encumberance, as well.

>Under T4, the difference is 2 whole points of benefit, and every Dex
>increase increases your chance to hit.  Under my system, you still
>get a better increase with each Dex level although it is only half
>that of the T4 system (by design).

So what? Endurance and Strength both have non-combat roles as well. See
also above.

>This is one of the things that convinced me that T4 had a superior
>system to MT, and believe me, I was an ardent defender of the MT
>system.

It is one of the things I DISLIKE about T4 and TNE: 1:1 ratio of benefit
for skills and attributes. I AGREE that 5:1 is too steep, and feel 2:1 too
shallow, and so 3:1 is my house rule for MT. But see also above.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:38:11 -0600
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: FS: Fifth Frontier War

Believe it or not, I actually have three extra copies of Fifth Frontiers
War. The Boxes are a bit beat up, but everything is intact.

Good-to-Great copies seem to go from between $60-$100, so if anyone's
interested, I'd guess these may be worth around $30, plus postage and
packing.

(If nobody replies, I'll know the price is inflated, and drop it down. If
more than six or seven people respond, I may got to a mini-auction format.
If two to six people respond, it'll be first come, first serve).

John Kovalic
muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com


**************************************************
       "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                              - Arthur Dent
**************************************************
                                       "Wild Life": a Web comic -
        at MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:46:33 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

At 04:43 AM 2/20/97 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> In-Reply-To: <970216.092144.4y0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
>>
>> << Oh yeagh, if you engage the drive at 10 diameters, don't forget that
>> gives a *large* chance for a misjump. It's even *possible* to engage
>> the drive on the ground. But the odds are little better than suicide
>> (anybody got them handy?) >>
>>
>> My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very* 
>> unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to 
>> survive. They rolled a 12.
>
>Did they jump at one *diameter* (one planetary radius *above* the
>surface) or one *radius* (from the surface)?

Wimps.

I once jumped from inside a hanger!  (made it to, IIRC)

Remind me, Craig, wasn't that one of our old Arameth campaigns, the one
where I rolled like six pirate encounters in row, and we had to clear off
the desk for each damn combat?

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
|        "When cryptography is outlawed,          |
|        bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!"         |
|                    - Brad Templeton of ClariNet |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #972
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 21 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 973



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Combat rules against robots/vehicles
Passenger Correction.
Re: Re:T4 Gripes
Re: Power Plants
Re: T4 task system
**
Re: Pilots v. Astrogator
Re:  Impossible Tasks (was T4 gripes)
Re: Enormous EDU bonuses
StarShip Economics
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #969
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #969
Re: StarShip Economics
Skill Acquisition Extension
Some post-game comments on the task system...
Long Day's Journey Part IV: Conclusion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:00:04 -0800
From: "Rob Gillingham" <Farpoint@netcom.ca>
Subject: Combat rules against robots/vehicles

 Subject: Combat rules against robots/vehicles

 
 
 i'm alittle confused on the combat rules in T4 about stuctural damage for
vehicles and robots....... i understand the chart showing hit locations..
 and how the armor works... but what i'm stuck on is the structural damage
  areas's can take. PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP ME! 
 
 				 Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:00:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: Passenger Correction.

Mark Clark asked:

>   The question I have for you, Steve, is that my calculations show that
> there is only about a 14% chance of getting the 5 passengers you list in
> your table as being average for pop 3 worlds.  Could you explain the
> reason for the difference? 

Mea culpa.  Thanks for the catch.

I was fooled by agents of Tukera's security agency (er, and misread some
scrawled notes about the passenger table when I did the math).  My quick
analysis was not fancy; I just grabbed the medians.  So there may be more
or less demand.  The times when there is more may pay for the times when
there are less, if you have room to take them, but I didn't look at this
or how much the figures vary.  The table should have looked more like:

 Pop.    --- Passengers ---    Freight
(UWP)    High  Middle  Cold     (Std)
 -------------------------------------
  0       --     --     --        --
  1       --      1      1         0
  2        0      3      7        60
  3        0      4      7       105
  4        4      4      7.5     150   The 4   is 2d-1d.
  5        4      3.5    7.5     195   The 3.5 is 3d-2d.
  6        3.5    3.5   10.5     240   
  7        3.5    7.5   10.5     285
  8        7.5    7.5   14       333
  9        7.5   10.5   17.5     378
  A       10.5   14     21       429

...which are lower than my initial estimates.

All is not lost for passenger-heavy liners.  The rules say a +DM is
given to the rolls for Carousing (Hi), Admin (Mid), and Streetwise (Low).
However, by reading the text in the MT version of this more closely, it
turns out that *any* crewmember can apply these DMs.  You might be able
to imply that the crew can sum their skill levels to increase passenger
numbers, which helps save the liner concept.  You could also rule that
larger, multiship route-based firms could maintain ticketing agencies
that are paid just to get passengers every week for their ships using
employees with Admin and Carousing, which might encourage players to
form little fledgling lines.  By encouraging them to form a route of
their choosing, then you can concentrate on developing the worlds and
people in that area, which is nice.

Of course, that probably doesn't help those of us who were trying to
be profitable with too many staterooms in THUDDD.  Oh well.  I did make
the assumption that at least Admin-2 would be available, and probably
Carousing-2, simply because it's so valuable to the merchant lines that
they'd train people for it.  I'm not sure if character generation does
reflect this.  (Oh, and incidentally, in MT Carousing was replaced by
Steward, so removing Steward skill seems intentional in T4.)

Chris Cox wrote:

> When designing my entry, the Burov, to have a 40 Middle passangers I
> completely forgot that there was such thing as a passenger table, let alone
> that it was included in T4 (I just don't spend much time going over the main
> book).  Was the passenger table suppose to a design consideration and I just
> missed the mention of it on the TML or in the Far Trader design specs?

It wasn't explicitly mentioned; I took it as a part of specification b):

> a) be capable of Jump-2 or higher,
> b) be commercially viable,
> c) affordable by non-megacorp purchasers, and
> d) since this is Milieu 0, TL-12 max.

Since players will be using the T4 economics rules, I decided it might be
wise to make sure that they can reliably fill at least a large proportion
of the staterooms as part of being "commercially viable".  I don't think
this should be judged *too* harshly though, because figuring this out is
not entirely trivial, and I didn't have time to look too closely myself.
And clearly misfigured it when I did!  :)

While I considered the excess staterooms worth a minor deduction, there's
enough other nice things about the Burov that it should score quite well,
in my opinion.  For one thing, taken at face value it makes serious money, 
which is better than many ships managed!  :)  I don't think I'll go into
more detail until voting closes, though.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Re:T4 Gripes

Hi.

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>

Thanks for the comments; you make some interesting points. One thing you
said has me puzzled though:

>> Also, there's that college thing. In T4, you get an ATTRIBUTE INCREASE
>> (much better than a skill with the new task system) every year PLUS a
>> skill every year you spend in school. 

> So use the T4 college rules before the character goes into the 1 year 
> method.

I'm not sure what you mean by the one-year method here. In T4, like
Book 1, you resolve your career term by term. You get at least 4
skills or attribute increases every term. In college, you get 4 skills
and 4 attribute increases; the four attribute increases are lagniappe,
and they are a very powerful extra with the new task system. This
results in characters quite a bit more powerful than what I used to roll
up in CT with either the yearly or "termly" method.

College is really a great bonus in T4. Not only does it make T4
characters more powerful than CT characters (not a big problem as far as
I'm concerned --- I don't have player characters switching between game
systems), but it makes college-educated players quite a bit more
powerful than their school-of-hard-knocks counterparts. This upsets the
flavor of the T4 universe a bit; I anticipate more scholars relative to
veterans bopping around my campaign in the future.

Otherwise, I agree with the main thrust of your post, which was that the
4-skills-per-term method puts termly and yearly generated characters on
the same footing. It allows the T4 referee to use previous CT careers
(like Belters!) together with yearly generation systems (with rules for commando
NPC's, decorations, and combat ribbons) quite easily with little
modification.

But I still don't think that characters generated previously using a
strict by-the-rules CT system (whether yearly or termly) will (on
average) hold their own against newly generated T4 characters.
YMMV.

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:34:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Power Plants

On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk wrote:

> if you look at all the 
> TNE ships they are built at TL15. Since the average steller tech was 
> 12, why are all the working starships built at a TL 3 higher than most 
> of the available starports?

Because the vast majority of TNE ships were relics from when the average
WAS TL-15, built at TL-12 with some TL-15 parts 'imported' from the
Hivers, or built in the Regency, which still was TL-15. 

Basing your costs only on power output is quite unrealistic...a TL-15
1000MW powerplant is going to be both smaller AND cheaper than a TL-12
one. This is one of the main advantages of technological advances...Our
DEC Alpha is about as powerful or more so, in computing terms, as the
early Cray 'Supercomputers', but it's considerably smaller and waaaay 
cheaper. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:18:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

>1)  By just adding skill and attribute, the system unfairly weighted
>towards the attributes, and you run into problems like this:
>
>	Jan has a Pilot-1 skill and a Dex-11.  Rob has a Pilot-4 skill and a
>	Dex-6.
>
>	Since Jan's target number is 12 and Rob's target number is 10, Jan
>	should pilot the ship even though Rob is more skilled than Jan by
>	far.

To me, Rob is more "trained".  He is also a clutz who is going
to take a lot of work to ever make into a decent pilot.

It's like the situation of the middle ages person who was
never particularly talented being passed by a young talent
who is a fraction of his age.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:18:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: **



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:43:13 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Pilots v. Astrogator

Brad Urwiller wrote:
> 
> I always assumed that the Astrogator handled on the Jump calculations.
> 
> Since it would seem asinine to have a warm body handly a job that only
> required 1 out every 7 days I usually do the following.
> 
> I allow the Pilot/Astrogator to be one person with the following
> restrictions.
>         Unless preplotted a JUMP cannot be made during manuevers.
>         And that's it.
>         When preparing JUMP calculations the ship must maintain course.
> (In the event of attack the calculations can simply be put on       hold
> until calculations can be resumed)

I agree; it's an utter waste of life support to have a dedicated
astrogator who is busy for only a short time every 7-14 days. My
solution? I assume that astrogation skill covers both J and N-space
astrogation, and for optimal results in N-space, a ship must have an
astrogator. I further assume that "one-man" vessels like fighters or
scout/couriers have astro systems optimized for one-man operations while
larger vessels "work best" with a full crew.

Non-optimal results include poor jumps (minor temporial or spatial
errors) or badly-plotted N-space vectors (extra time taken to go places
in N-space).

That's how *I* play it, Brad :)

- --Rich
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:56:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re:  Impossible Tasks (was T4 gripes)

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

>>What percentage chance would you give a character with skill-6 and
>>stat-12?

>As someone who doesn't use the Traveller core rules (I use the
>background) I will say that the term "impossible" says to
>me that only the most superior individuals will be able
>do this at all, and even then it should be along shot.
>I don't think any character should have more than a
>10% chance at an "impossible task".

I tend to agree.  I'd say that someone with a 17 target number should
have a realistic chance of performing an impossible task, where
someone with a target number of 9 would not.  However, a I see a 
reasonable chance as 20% to 25%, higher than that means to me
that  it is something the PC can count on working.  

I can see Kenneth's point, but I don't like the idea of lots of negative
modifiers to the target number makes a fairly clean and easy to use
task system quite clumsy.      


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 20:57:51 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Enormous EDU bonuses

Andy wrote:
>When proof-reading the original T4 rules I advocated that the EDU
>alterations should be halved and combined with a maxing-out rule, but this
>wasn't put in... 

awwww... shoot. You were right. Education in Traveller as it stands is 
Stoopid. I mean, how many people with an average edu (7), walk into 
college and came out over 150% more educated in 4 short years? What 
*were* they thinking?

>since 2d6 is a bell curve, by definition achieving higher
>stats isn't a linear process, so moving from 11->12 should be much more
>costly than 6->7.

I agree. So why not have a success roll for attribute advances? Maybe 
roll attribute or greater on 3d6 in order to advance?

For Example: Joe Average, edu of 7, goes to college for a term. He is 
entitled to +4 Edu. He must roll 7+ on 3D6 to get that first +1. If he 
succeeds, he needs a 8+ to get the second +1 Edu, if he succeds he needs 
9+... and so on.

Note that Joe Aboveaverage, with an attribute of 11, when rolling 3D6 has 
exactly a 50% chance to get +1 in that attribute. Joe Dumbasarock, with 
an attribute of 2, is automatically successful on that first +1.

If, like me, you feel 3d6 is still too easy, make it 2d6+d3, which adds 
up to a maximum of 15 (also the maximum attribute). Seems symetrical. 
There's a new use for those silly d3's! ;-) 

Given the structure of the T4 Task system, attribute advances *should* be 
difficult, since each increase in attribute applies to a wide variety of 
task rolls. Of course, whiners who don't like the weight given to 
attributes and have invented their own task system don't worry as much 
about attribute advances. ;-)

>In such circumstances I would suggest that during college,
>for a EDU12 player, you give them the option of +0 to +2 EDU, say, and give
>them 4 - (adj to EDU) extra skills, to allow that they were so learned, that
>they didn't really need to spend too much time in lessons, and instead went
>out and socialised (my players would choose +0 EDU and Drinking-4 
>skill...) :-)

Hmmmm... And what's the task where the player uses the skill?

"Kfengoez tries to drink you under the table. Roll a Difficult task 
against your Endurance and Drinking skill to stay sober."

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:32:55 +1300
From: Brody Dunn <brody@intersol.co.nz>
Subject: StarShip Economics

I think that it definitely makes sense that the Starships Economics =
tables and rules from T4 (TNE/MT/CT whatever) apply to Free Traders and =
tramp starships.
Large Traders (tukera, Oberlindes Lindes line etc..) have schedules and =
get fares / cargo on a prepaid scheduled basis that enable a ship to =
call into port - unload - load and leave in a much shorter period of =
time.  These vessels should then be able to make profit by jumping =
oftener than once every two weeks.
Players in a position to create scheduled lines of their own should be =
able to collect cargo and passengers using different rules and /or =
tables to reflect an established connection.
Free traders simply arrive and ask if anyone wants to go wherever they =
are going next - a haphazard method at best.

Brody Dunn
No Sig, No Worries

------------------------------

Date: 20 Feb 97 23:01:24 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #969

	
>        So, barring objections from Paul or Ethan, we're going to be doing
>the Merc Cruiser.
>
>
>        4) I think that we ought to spend a few days bashing over mission
>requirements.  Here's my initial attempt:
>
>1) Be affordable by your average planetary government or megacorp.

Perhaps a way of determining the military budget of a planetary government
could be something like this (this is just a quick system I and a friend
came up with on a dull night in Korea):  
  Take the GNP of the world:  population X average per capita annual income
(Maybe Cr 15,000 for poor worlds, Cr25,000 for average worlds, Cr40,000 for
rich worlds)
  Military budget starts at 5% of GNP, +1/2d6 (retain fractions) for High
Gov, +1/2d6 for High Law.
  I think there were guidelines published for MT to determine the costs of
maintaining starships; I don't have them available.

  OTOH, we could just vote on a tonnage and price range.
>
>2) Be able to transport a significant number of troops (suggestions,
>anyone?) plus vehicles and equipment, and provide neccessary repair and
>maintenance facilities for said troops and vehicles.

  This could be a sticky point - there's a tradeoff between combat
functionality and transport capability above a certain level.  Maybe a
troop level of 2-4 platoons (32-64 troops plus command staff)?

>
>3) Be capable of ship-to-ship combat.

Within limits, of course.  It should be up to the designer to determine the
primary mission of the ship, whether it's for highside or dirtside actions,
and this should be reflected in the designer's notes.

>
>4) Be capable of getting the troops onto the ground in the face of enemy
>fire, whether by drop ships or landing.

When in doubt, send the marines...
>
>5) Be able to provide fire support (ortillery or otherwise) for said
troops.

When you care enough to send the very best.  I may have to start work on an
orbital bombardment missile carrier.
>
>
>        5) Lastly, I think that the prize for the Second THUDDD ought to
be
>a beautiful ASCII iridium-plated rock personally autographed by Sir
Arameth
>Gridlore... if Sir Arameth is willing, of course :)

Or maybe a big chunk of bullshittium?
>
>
>
>        Between now and the time to solicit designs I'll try and codify
and
>post the THUDDD General Rule-Like Things and Vaguely Procedural Doohickeys
>so as to minimize confusion...:)
>
>------------------------------
>


Jeff


- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 20 Feb 97 22:53:12 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #969

	
>        So, barring objections from Paul or Ethan, we're going to be doing
>the Merc Cruiser.
>
>
>        4) I think that we ought to spend a few days bashing over mission
>requirements.  Here's my initial attempt:
>
>1) Be affordable by your average planetary government or megacorp.

Perhaps a way of determining the military budget of a planetary government
could be something like this (this is just a quick system I and a friend
came up with on a dull night in Korea):  
  Take the GNP of the world:  population X average per capita annual income
(Maybe Cr 15,000 for poor worlds, Cr25,000 for average worlds, Cr40,000 for
rich worlds)
  Military budget starts at 5% of GNP, +1/2d6 (retain fractions) for High
Gov, +1/2d6 for High Law.
  I think there were guidelines published for MT to determine the costs of
maintaining starships; I don't have them available.

  OTOH, we could just vote on a tonnage and price range.
>
>2) Be able to transport a significant number of troops (suggestions,
>anyone?) plus vehicles and equipment, and provide neccessary repair and
>maintenance facilities for said troops and vehicles.

  This could be a sticky point - there's a tradeoff between combat
functionality and transport capability above a certain level.  Maybe a
troop level of 2-4 platoons (32-64 troops plus command staff)?

>
>3) Be capable of ship-to-ship combat.

Within limits, of course.  It should be up to the designer to determine the
primary mission of the ship, whether it's for highside or dirtside actions,
and this should be reflected in the designer's notes.

>
>4) Be capable of getting the troops onto the ground in the face of enemy
>fire, whether by drop ships or landing.

When in doubt, send the marines...
>
>5) Be able to provide fire support (ortillery or otherwise) for said
troops.

When you care enough to send the very best.  I may have to start work on an
orbital bombardment missile carrier.
>
>
>        5) Lastly, I think that the prize for the Second THUDDD ought to
be
>a beautiful ASCII iridium-plated rock personally autographed by Sir
Arameth
>Gridlore... if Sir Arameth is willing, of course :)

Or maybe a big chunk of bullshittium?
>
>
>
>        Between now and the time to solicit designs I'll try and codify
and
>post the THUDDD General Rule-Like Things and Vaguely Procedural Doohickeys
>so as to minimize confusion...:)
>
>------------------------------
>


Jeff


- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:12:20 +0000
From: twolf@unix.tfs.net
Subject: Re: StarShip Economics

I use modified rules to handle players that establish the own lines.  
It can be a lot of fun, building a corporation for the ground up.  
Unfortunately the rules are still being shipped from Germany to 
Kansas and will not arrive for two more weeks.  If you are interested 
email me and we can discuss some options.

JD
Twolf

> I think that it definitely makes sense that the Starships Economics tables and rules from T4 (TNE/MT/CT whatever) apply to Free Traders and tramp starships.
> Large Traders (tukera, Oberlindes Lindes line etc..) have schedules and get fares / cargo on a prepaid scheduled basis that enable a ship to call into port - unload - load and leave in a much shorter> Players in a position to create scheduled lines of 
t
heir own should be able to collect cargo and passengers using different rules and /or tables to reflect an established connection.
> Free traders simply arrive and ask if anyone wants to go wherever they are going next - a haphazard method at best.
> 
> Brody Dunn
> No Sig, No Worries
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:15:57 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Skill Acquisition Extension

>> Well, some comparison notes on skill levels per term, base plus bonuses:
>> CT: 1-2 per term, +1 per each: Commission, Promotion
>> 	range 1-4 per term
>> MT: 1-2 per term, +1-2 each: Commission, Promotion, SplDuty
>> 	1-8 per term, normally 2-4 per term
>> TNE: 1-4 per term, doubled on Special duty, plus 1 each for commission and
>> promotion.
>> 	1-10 per term, diminishing with age, weighting out to 2-6 per term
>> T4: 4-6 per term, +1 each: Commission, Promotion, Special Duty
>> 	4-7 per term (careers with 6 base don't have Commission/Promo).
>
>You should do the comparison to the 1 year method in CT Books 4-7 or
>in the MT PM for Scouts, Merchants, Mercenaries, and Naval
>characters.  The number of skills earned each term is about the same
>as what you've listed for T4.

Didn't have time at the moment. Here goes

Mercenary (CT/MT)
per year skill expectation: mean roll reqired to get skill 7.55
				~58% skill chance per year.
	Assuming special duty only (incredibly rare) up to a DOZEN skills
MIGHT be acquired during a term, so expectation is 2 per term. Nowere in
advanced generation does it list any skills for promotion, and commission
grants OCS skills, not skill rolls.

High Guard (CT/MT)
Per year Skill Expectations: mean roll required: 6.9
				~72%
	Same caveats about Spl Dty and Skills for Promotion

Scouts CT/MT
Field: mean roll: 6.5; ~72%
Admin: mean roll 5.91; ~75%
	Same caveats apply.

Merchant Prince CT/MT
	mean roll req. 5.88, ~78%
	SAME CAVEATS APPLY

Sooo..
Mercs: expect 2 per term, with potential for up to a dozen
Others: expect 3 per term, with potential for a dozen
all: normal range is 1-4 per term.

Note: I found no statements granting a skill for being promoted in any of
the CT or MT Adv CGen rules. If this is correct, then Adv Gen is highly
abused, as EVERYONE I know using Adv. CGen is taking skills for promotions,
as well, which adds another 0-1 skill per term for officers, and 0-4 for
enlisted.


SINCE MT'S skill list is about 50% longer than CT's, or on par with the
fully extended CT Advanced CGen, that gives similar value to skill levels.

MT's skill list, while detailed in different areas, is overall about the
same length as TNE's or T4's. THAT is what drives the value down. T4
actually has fewer skills overall than MT; MT breaks weapons down into
several skills: Handgun, SMG, Rifleman, Cbt Rflmn, Laser Weapons,
High-Energy Weapons, and Heavy Weapons; T4 has one, which is specialized.
Same for melee weapons.

I sat down and compared when T4 came out. Having just done a hasty recount
on MT, it has about 90 discrete skills, counting only the broadest skill
for weapons, ie: not the individual weapons, only those skills that you
actually write down.

T4 has 98 If I counted correctly, I figure I'm within 5...

John Snead claims T4 has a much longer skill list... not so, as a quick
count shows. The MT count is, of course subject to some interp, and is +-5
skills depending upon counting method, plus 20-30 specific weapon types on
the skill list. Note that T4 is also lacking a few traditional "Traveller"
skills: Steward being the most obvious. Also, I didn't count the additional
skills from the alien modules in either case.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:33:45 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Some post-game comments on the task system...

        Clearly, the task system is well and truly porked at the high end.
The ludicrous rolling that was going on towards the end of this game bore
this out in rather startling fashion; my PC's were pulling off Impossible
rolls routinely.  As it stands, even a moderately exceptional character
(which the chargen system tends to produce quite easily) can get away with
murder on a routine basis.  This, in my books, is not good.

        Thus, I hereby announce that I'm adopting Kenneth Bearden's task
system fix.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:33:35 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Long Day's Journey Part IV: Conclusion

INTRO: Here's the synopsis of the fourth in my ongoing Long Day's Journey
campaign...  I said last week that my players were rising admirably to the
task of doing the dirty job of being the scum of the spaceways; this week
they surpassed themselves, as you'll see.  I was rather startled; appalling
violence in RPGs _when it makes sense_ I don't have any problems with.
Appalling violence *when there's no point to it* and in fact actually
considerably worsens the PC's situation strikes me as pretty, well,
irrational... but hey.


THE CAST:

Isaac Xyroli: a young, brash, and arrogant ex-Scout, currently working for
Ling Standard as pilot on the Frozen Glory, a FSY Mouffette-Rapide class
far courier.  Played by the TML's own Ross Coburn.

Leemcha Quo: Ascetic no-nonsense 35-year-old Asian/Vilani ex-Navy
Astrogator.  Cold, serious, no nonsense.  Played by a non-TMLer.

Dr. Ilbren Dinaskir: A Vilani archaeologist of humble origins, specializing
in the Rule-of-Man period, who rose to his present recently tenured
position due to his own brilliance and not to his humble origins on an
algae farm.  Played by TML'er Glenn Grant.

Lt. Jack 23: A strong, silent, dangerous type with "military" written all
over him; formerly a marine, now working for Ling Standard Security.  Has
manged to overcome his underprivileged youth as an orphan in a Solomani
Genetic Collective rather nicely.  Again, played by nobody you know.

Lt. Kyle Deschenko: A nice, genteel thug from one of the best of families.
Despite coming from a well-off family (SOC A), he nevertheless managed to
get sent to a military academy for his youthful misdeeds.  After a stint in
the Navy, he spent some time as a Rogue before getting hired by Ling.  Has
every weapon-related skill save Heavy Weapons.  Likewise, played by a
non-TMLer.


Episode 4: Dante Was Right... It Is Cold Down Here (subtitle; Rats of
Outlandish Size)


Scene 1:

        The game picked up right where we left off, with the crew of the
=46rozen Glory receiving a distress signal from the Messalina (a FSY
Caligula-class megayacht carrying dame Sisao hault Joostens who had booted
them off their archaeological site and declared the system a Red Zone last
week).  After discussion, the crew of the Frozen Glory decide to loiter on
back to Skrunge to see what's up, visions of salvage dancing in their
heads.  After arriving on Skrunge 2.5 days later they probe the site via
the orbiting survey sats (as Xyroli had taken the anti-hijack offline in a
fit of pique after it had gassed him back on Archipelago, the virus did not
infect it; especially after Lt. Duschenko, its creator, was on the lookout
for it).  Radar and neutrino scans (heavy snowstorms over the site blocking
visual and infrared wavelengths) reveal that the Messalina had several
locks and its cargo bay doors open and only one of its reactors was
running, and that the doors into the side of the mesa were now partially
open.

        Two days later, after the sunset terminator storm had moved on and
the weather was a little bit better, they did a high-altitude pass,
revealing that the Messalina was mostly buried under drifting snow; it was
giving off next to no infrared signal.  There were of course significant
heat sources down in all four silos, and a lesser one radiating from behind
one of the mesa doors.

        After much discussion, centered around the wisdom of landing while
whatever it was that trashed the Messaline was still hanging around, they
decided not to land and investigate until morning.  In the meantime,
however, they decided to deal with Lt. 23, whose loyalty to Ling was such
that Xyroli had had him pinned down in his cabin at 3 Gs for the past week
so that he couldn't interfere with their nefarious plans.  However, Lt. 23,
an husky, ingenious sort, had rigged up a booby trap; a gauss smg set up as
a set gun duct-taped to the underside of the chair, rigged to fire when his
door was open.   Lt. Duschenko set it off when entering the cabin.  Sadly,
I rolled really badly and all it did was damage the panelling, and Xyroli,
watching the proceedings via security cam, quickly cranked the grav back up
to three G's when Lt. 23 pulled another gun on Dr. Dinaskir in an attempt
to take him hostage.  Lt. 23, weakened by Vilani food poisoning and several
days at high G's without food or water, quickly succumbed.  They shot him
full of Fast Drug and left him there.

        After waiting for a few more days while the long Skrungian night
came to an end and the morning storms had moved past the site, they land.
The landing site was a hummocky, frost-heaven, swampy mess, dotted here and
there with the carapaces of what appeared to be hibernating SLST-3's
(Skrungian Large Spiky Thing 3; a 400-kg herbivore rather like a wiwaxia
writ large; a very big, spiky-shelled, low to the ground critter); the
Messalina is desolated, mudspattered, with its ports open.  Taking great
precautions to avoid alien infestations, they load up with guns and put the
4 security troops into the air raft, with Dr. Dinaskir driving and Leemcha
and Lt. Duschenko riding shotgun.  They proceed to head to the Messalina,
intending to enter via the cargo-bay doors.  However, as they're coming in
for the doors, they hear a shouted warning over their comms and the loud
crack of a FSA 6.66mm gauss big game rifle; one of the SLST-3 carapaces
takes a rifle hit, and starts thrashing around like there is something in
death throes inside.  Suddenly, a half-dozen carapaces are overturned, and
alien critters emerge from beneath them, pelting the air raft with spears
(hitting both Leemcha and one of the security guards, rendering them
unconscious).

        The critters in question were quadrupedal, 2m tall and 4m long when
their long pink hairless tails were taken into account, with pointed
muzzles, whiskers, round ears, two red eyes and white fur; hardly the
Skrungian taxonomical norm.  Shortly thereafter, rifle fire from inside the
mesa, coupled with rifle and smg fire from the air raft, revealed the fact
that they bled red...(?!)  Xyroli, not to be outdone, began warming up the
=46rozen Glory's laser and added its fire to the carnage.  The critters were
quickly routed.  Dr Dinaskir. maintaining altitude, headed for the mesa;
Lt. Duschenko and the surviving security troops hosing down the SLST-3
carapaces that were clustered suspiciously close to the doors;
unsurprisingly, these too proved to be concealing critters who died rather
messily as their primitve technology proved no match for TL-12 weaponry.

        Inside the doors were Baron Hordred hault Hereish, Dr. Mintuush (an
archaeologist colleague of Dr. Dinaskir's), and a few of the Messalina's
crew, including what appeared to be a rather frightened 16-year-old girl.
Quickly loading the elderly Dr. Mintuush, the girl, and the non-combatant
survivors on board, and leaving Lt. Duschenko behind to provide covering
fire, they return to the Frozen Glory.  Xyroli, meanwhile, has begun to
systematically commit genocide on the large numbers of critters emerging
from the silos, using the ship's laser.  Some, however, manage to flee.
Back at the ship, they unload the wounded.  Dr. Mintuush, who had
medical-3, begins to tend to them.

        While the survivors are being shuttled back to the ship, Xyroli
calls up Baron Hordred and begins to negotiate.  Baron Hordred, wisely
concluding that he's dealing with criminal scum of the worst sort, agrees
to give up his group's weapons in exchange for passage off this godforsaken
ball of rock.  Xyroli, when told that dame Sisao is dead, replies with
"good".  Lt. Duschenko collects their weapons and Dr. Dinaskir ferries them
back to the ship.

        Once on board, the Baron and the 16-year-old, who claims to be
"Jenny, one of the stewards" and who is showing signs of being highly
traumatized, are escorted up to the lounge.  To make a long story short
(and in passing I was really, really, really generous to Ross on this one.
Had I not been such a soft touch his character would have been dead dead
dead.  Indeed, I greatly regret it :>), she puts three bullets from a
magnum revolver into Xyroli.  In truth, she is actually dame Sisao and is
rather highly pissed off at his cavalier attitude towards his impending
demise, as well as suspecting him of involvement in the problems the
Messalina recently experienced.  Having succeeded a Staggering surprise
roll, he manages to shoot her husband (Baron Hordred) with his body pistol,
injuring him slightly.  She then announces over the ship's intercom that
she is indeed she, that the traitorous criminal miscreant Xyroli has been
summarily executed for lese-nobilit=E9, and that the crew of the Frozen Glor=
y
is hereforth pardoned for their misdemeanours and that upon her return to
civilization will commend them to the Emperor, as well as grant them
salvage rights to the wreck of the Messalina.

        Not surprisingly, this goes a long way towards mollifying opinion,
especially as dame Sisao gives Duschenko her recorded word as a Lady of the
Third Imperium that she will honour her promises towards the crew.
However, Duschenko points out that as their only other pilot is Leemcha,
and she's wounded, it might make sense to patch Xyroli up.  While Dr.
Mintuush tends to him, he assists Baron von Hordred to a bunk, and gives
him a dose of Fast drug.  Then he heads down to the lounge, informs dame
Sisao that her husband wanted a word with her.  Scooting up to the cockpit,
he then proceeded to turn the gravity up to 3Gs all over the ship, all the
while maintaining a pretense via the intercom that some wierd malfunction
was causing the problem.

        Readily succeeding on an Impossible Int+computer roll, he then
managed to break Xyroli's password protection on the anti-hijack system
files, reinstall the anti-hijack program, and activate it, setting it on
lethal; it handily slaughtered all non-crew-members on board; dame Sisao &
her husband, Dr. Mintuush, and the other survivors of the Messalina.

        Immediately prior to to Lt. Duschenko's act of senseless mass
murder, Dr. Mintuush had been explaining to Dr. Dinaskir that although the
ROM site was sadly totally empty, the critters that had boarded the
Messalina (and eaten most of its crew, although the players never found
this out) bore too much of a resemblance to common Terran lab rats for it
to be just coincidence; rightly guessing that they were geneered lab rats
uplifted for military use, he proposed that he and Dr. Dinaskir collect
some tissue samples from the numerous dead specimens littering the landing
area, and do a joint paper on them.  Then the gravity tripled and the
antihijack system kicked in and killed him before Dr. Dinaskir's horrified
eyes.

        Given that they'd just blown my plans for the next part of the
campaign right out of the water (patrons like that you don't meet every
day, but nooooo... instread of being grateful they kill them, arglebarg), I
was rather taken aback; Lt. Duschenko's actions were only explicable if he
were a homicidal psychopath...  However, their attempts to salvage the
Messalina succeeded, despite my throwing a series of Impossible engineering
rolls and Staggering piloting rolls at them, and some time later they
managed to get the yacht jury-rigged with new control panels (female
critters back on Skrunge were wearing most of the old ones as jewellery)
cannibalized from the Frozen Glory and refuelled. ready to go who knows
where.   I called a stop to proceedings at that point; we'll pick up in a
few weeks after I've picked up M0, and see what we can't salvage from this
mess... clearly, going back to the Imperium is impossible for Duschenko and
Xyroli.  Maybe we'll generate new characters.  Who knows...  anyhow, here
are what the critters were:

>
>The Rat Things: descendants of prototype geneered and uplifted domestic
>rats >released into the wild when the Skrunge Bioresearch facility closed.
>Visualize >a 6' nearly-bipedal albino lab rat with increased brain
>capacity, 4 hearts and a >redundant circulatory system, excellent night
>vision, killer reflexes, opposable >thumbs, a stone-pointed spear, and a
>bad temper.  Currently organized into 20-30 >member migratory bands that
>return to a given wintering spot (caves, burrows) >that are shared with up
>to 10 other bands.  Currently at Tech level 0; stone and >bone tools &
>weapons, leatherworking, ropebraiding, some primitive ceramics.  The
>>500-rat population based out of the site of the old underground research
>facility >have some metal tools, the material being scavenged from the
>facility.  Given >that the Rat Things are in a situation analogous to the
>proto-Vilani, a certain >amount of cannibalism occurs.  They also find
>humans delicious...
>
>Omnivore hunter/gatherers
>
>Weight: 50 kg on average, weapons: claws/teeth 2d/2d (spear 2d), hits 27
>(9/9/9)
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #973
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 21 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 974



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Striker and MT Armor Thickness tables
Re: T4 task system
Re: A Better Task System
Re: Skill Acquisition Extension
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #968
Re: Long Day's Journey Part IV: Conclusion
Traveller Chronicle 12
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
Re: Some post-game comments on the task system...
Questions in FS/M:0
Re: Task System is Truly Porked
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #968
Town Hall/Forum
Re: Enormous EDU bonuses
Re: Traveller Vehicles
RE: Traveller Vehicles
Re: Traveller Question
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: [TML] ISBA
Re: NAS and psionics
Re: Question about "micro-jumps"
Re: Starship lifespan?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:24:44 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Striker and MT Armor Thickness tables

Have to double check striker for hulls, but I know that the thickness table
is identical except for two values at the very high end.

As for MT hulls, the hull multiplier is roughly 1.5*SurfaceArea, which I
figure to be a structure with mass equal to 1/2 the volume of the armour it
supports, plus ther armour shell.

FOr David Smart and other MT fans:

Separate armour facings can be roughly figured in MT by the following

each of the 6 facings is 1/9 the mass of a whole armour of the sides AV
figured for whole craft, and Hull Structure mass is 1/3 the mass for a hull
with an AV equal to the highest mounted AV.

Elegant, not too far off, and fairly well ballanced.

I did the math with excell, and found out the relationship to surface area
and Hull Price/Wt.

William F. Hostman
Mailto:Aramis@Asylumbbs.com

Traveller, GURPS, Hero, WFRP, SFB, Star Wars, and Masterbook GM
Star Trek, B5, and Traveller Fan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:20:54 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: Re: T4 task system

Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> writes:

>In a nutshell, the KBv1.1 system is two simple changes to the T4 task
>system as written.
>
>        1)  Use the new target number calculation (half stat, twice skill)
>
>        2)  Change Staggering to 4D;  change Impossible to 5D

I was one of the people dissing Mr. Bearden's task system when he
originally proposed it. I didn't like the use of 1/2 dice, felt it did not
make stats important enough, and was harder to calculate. However, after
actually trying it out in my campaign, I'm now a believer. When I objected
to it I used examples with skills of 5 or 6, but as Kenneth points out most
characters' skills are in the 1 to 3 range. Trying out his system with real
characters showed it to stand up admirably in a variety of situations with
both high and low target numbers, which only need to be calculated once and
written down. Well done, Mr. Bearden. Now would you mind taking a look at
the experience system?

Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:13:30 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: A Better Task System

>A New Task System for Traveller:
>
>        Dice Rolling Procedure:  Roll 2d6 for all tasks.  On a natural roll=
 of
>2 or 12 roll more dice.
>
>        On any roll of 12 you  roll 1 more d6 and add its result to your to=
tal,
>if it is a 6 you roll another d6 and add it to your total, keep rolling
>as long as you get sixes.
>
>        On any roll of 2 you must roll 1 more d6 and subtract its result to
>your total, if it is a 6 you roll another d6 and subtract it from your
>total, keep rolling as long as you get sixes.

Almost the same system I started out with a couple of yers ago.
On a natural 12 on 2D6 you roll 1D6 on 5+ add one to your total and reroll.
Continue until you fail the 5+ on 1D6.
On a natural 2 roll 1D6, on 2- subtract 1 and reroll until you fail the 5+
on 1D6.

Why I use this instead of add 1D6 and reroll if 6 is that I wanted
"continuous derivative" on the propability distribution or simply that the
odds of rolling 12+ instead of 11 is 3x harder and so should rolling 13+
instead of 12 be.

My tasklvls are:
Very easy 1+, Easy 4+, Average 7+, Hard 10+ and very hard 13+.
My skill system doesn't use skills rated in points instead I use:
Unskilled -4
Inexperienced -2
Normal =B10
Experienced +2
Expert +4
Master +6

My names for skill levels are chosen so I can use the actual skill level in
normal conversation. "Have you talked to Fred, he's an Experienced Pilot
but his Astrogation skills are quite Bad. The Normal level can be omitted
so if a character is a Pilot then he's by default a Normal Pilot. The
philosophy behind it is that the most common tasks shouldn't have die
modifiers at all and that characteristics/skills should be utterable to
people that doesn't know the system.

My task results are:
Very bad/total failure/total miss: Miss by 4 or more
Bad/failure/miss: Miss.
=46air: Succeed by 0-2
Good: Succeed by 3-5
Very good: Succeed by 6+

This means for instance:
"My #%#& Inexperienced Pilot easy landing attempt failed totally and
wrecked my ship."



/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:01:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Skill Acquisition Extension

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> wrote:

>John Snead claims T4 has a much longer skill list... not so, as a quick
>count shows. 

Actually, I said no such thing, I simply said that T4 characters get more
skills than CT or MT characters. 

There is another obvious answer to skills being less powerful.  T4
characters could simply be more powerful and more versatile than CT or MT
characters. I think this is true and I applaud this change. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 05:20:53 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #968

Greetings:

One suggestion (so far) for M0--other than the items like lack of 
subsector names here and in First Survey (groan) that others have found.

Each Mileu book ought to have a subtitle. So M0 would be Mileu Zero: The 
Founding of the Third Imperium. Then, inside somewhere should be a small 
introduction that shows all the intended Mileu's...I think this would 
give a potential buyer the sense of this is part of a much larger 
series--something that you'll get years of play from, as supplements keep 
coming and expanding the universe.



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 02:14:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kelly St.clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey Part IV: Conclusion

Thanks for posting your (quite entertaining) campaign writeup.  Some
  miscellaneous comments:

>  Given >that the Rat Things are in a situation analogous to the
>proto-Vilani, a certain >amount of cannibalism occurs.

Aie, THE THREAD THAT WOULD NOT DIE!

*grin*

I share your mystification/horror at Lt. Duschenko's actions.  Perhaps
  Ross is the sort of player who hates to lose/be humiliated, and took
  it out on the Dame and her party after they caught him flat-footed?

Ross, may I suggest that you and Xyroli switch to decaf?  Or to TNE,
  where acts of senseless violence are encouraged by the Powers That
  Be?  (ObDig at TNE dungeon-crawl syndrome)


I hope that you're able to find a way to continue/restart your game.
  When you do, might I suggest that you ask the players what kind of
  campaign they want to play?  Given your description so far, it
  sounds like many of them are interested in shooting things, 
  including each other...

While characters with active, even lethal grudges toward each other
 can provide lots of roleplaying, it also places a lot of strain on
  the GM to keep them pointed in one direction and not at each other's
  throats.  Traveller, with its usual band of ex-military PCs with
  shady backgrounds thrown together by circumstance, can be 
  particularly bad this way (though not as much as, say, CYBERPUNK).

Good luck to you all.



- ---------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org      Veteran of the great TML "R-Alpha/Centerpoint" PBeM,
                                      R. I. P.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 05:20:58 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: Traveller Chronicle 12

Greetings:

A real week of Travelling for me! Picked up M0 and FS...and in the 
mailbox at home was Traveller Chronicle 12.

Features are:

A Long Way Home by Terrence McInnes (not THE Long Way Home...), a 
serialized Traveller novel...
Children of the Earth Errata and Additions by Harold Hale
Terran Information Network by Harold Hale
Psionic Time Travel by Harold Hale
Small Arms of the Terran Republic by Harold Hale
Official Terran Republic Marine Sniper Rules by Harold Hale
Artifact by Clayton R. Bush (set in the Spinward Marches...)
Amber Zone: Sudrian Wave by Glenn M. Goffin (MegaTrav)
Out of this Universe by Clayton R. Bush
and...
An Offer You Can't Refuse by Mark Urban

..looks good!



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"...and the sky was full of stars...each star an exploding ship...one of 
ours..."

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:58:57 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

> ... I would like to create a set of Vehicle cards, each with entries
> on basic data. When a group uses a vehicle, they would consult the
> card which would tell them basic performance data, etc.

	Very good idea!

	While I was in the army, we had a nice deck of vehicle cards
	used in guerilla actions training. The cards showed a photo
	of a vehicle, some technical data, and an overhead drawing
	which showed the areas where the personnel inside the vehicle
	could see and the areas where the weapons could fire.

	For example, "T72 MBT"-card showed that the tank has nice blind
	spots as long as the tank commander does not come out from
	the turret hatch, and "BMP-2 IFV"-card showed that it is hard
	to approach the vehicle without being seen, and the firing port
	weapons may cover all directions.

> Speed1Max
> Speed1Cruise
> Speed1Min

	I just hope that the vehicle speed would shown in some "normal"
	units, for example "km/h" or "m/s". It jut bugs me when some
	games present the vehicle speeds in "kilometers traveled in 4
	hour period", "combat system distance units per combat system
	turn" or in some other "furlongs per fortnight" units.

	Vehicle data could also include the maximum acceleration value.


        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:48:37 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf) wrote:

>The rules in FF&S somewhat takes into account for the extra volume a
>external craft adds to the hull. But it does not mention the hull
>grid. The solution may be that the grid is thicker or more just more
>of it at the external grapples, making it possible to include the
>external craft, without the hassle of designing jump grid on external
>crafts.

        If the grid is thicker at the external grapple, this will
pressumably make the field extend more far away from the hull where the
external grapple is, covering the attached auxiliary craft. Yes. But, then,
it would produce exactly the same effect whether the auxiliary craft is
there or NOT (the only important thing is the volume inside the field), so
there will be few reasons for external grapples. An alternative would be
that, under the external grapple, the gird is not more thick, but more
*dense*. For example, several simple grips superimposed, so that you can
activate only the basic pattern for a jump without auxiliary craft, or the
more dense one (two or more superimposed basic grids) for a jump *with*
auxiliary craft.
        And so, nobody told the players who did not contract an astrogator
to activate de more dense pattern and they lost the launch... ;-)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:04:42 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Some post-game comments on the task system...

rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott) wrote:

>        Clearly, the task system is well and truly porked at the high end.
(Snip)
>        Thus, I hereby announce that I'm adopting Kenneth Bearden's task
>system fix.

        To be honest, I still do not understand what was wrong with th MT
task system. I am seriously considering using only MT rules for the moment
being, or adapting them to the more skilled T4 PCs.
        Carlos.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:10:30 -0500
From: Alan Nuss <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Questions in FS/M:0

In First Survey and M:0 two worlds of the Third Imperium have errors
in their star types.  Laairer (2314) lists an A1 VI and Gikuu (2317)
lists a M2 IV.  In the World Bulider book there are no spectrial class
A white dwarfs nor M subgiants.  My fix is just to keep the spectrial
classes where they are and swap the types (WD <-> SG).

While going through First Survey I came across various alien homeworlds
listed.  Some I know while others I never heard of.  Perhaps someone 
will post where to find information on these aliens.

  Brinn
  Ojeshodu
  Xapogoz
  Cafadans
  Answerin
  Vilani
  Khulan
  Tahavi
  Thaggeshi
  Minlad
  Lasat
  Jag-Il-Jad
  Kolzar
  Githiaskio
  Ael Yael
  Suerrat
  Geonee

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:12:32 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Task System is Truly Porked

Have to agree with ol' Darroch there; having been one of the chief
miscreants in A Long Day's Journey (and I feel rather bad about it
actually; I used to have such respect for low-key Traveller mercantilism),
I can state with complete confidence that the tast system isn't worth the
paper it's printed on.  Combat system is pretty sucky, too.  It really has
the feel of having been designed by wargamers, with greater emphasis on
small unit tactics than the kind of one-on-one (or
one-on-one-plus-an-apparently-teenaged-baroness-may-she-rot!) encounters
one would tend to expect in Traveller.


Mr Cr.02, Isaac can now afford it.

Ross Coburn
ross@ican.net
ross@ptm.ca

"Insert clever quote here."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:07:27 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #968

At 05:20 AM 2/21/97 -0400, FKiesche@concentric.net wrote:
>Each Mileu book ought to have a subtitle. So M0 would be Mileu Zero: The 
>Founding of the Third Imperium. Then, inside somewhere should be a small 
>introduction that shows all the intended Mileu's...I think this would 
>give a potential buyer the sense of this is part of a much larger 
>series--something that you'll get years of play from, as supplements keep 
>coming and expanding the universe.

This is a very good suggestion -- cheap, easy to do, and with a clear
benefit for the marketability of the game.

I have to admit, even being familiar with the Traveller universe, until I
signed onto the TML I thought "Milieu 0" was a standard techno-geek way of
referring to the first one (you know, start counting with 0, not 1).  I had
no idea it referred to the Imperial Year.  This seems like an easy
misconception for unfamiliar or potential players to make, and an easy one
to fix as described above.

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:43:56 -0800
From: mchildre@pcshs.com
Subject: Town Hall/Forum

I found this surfing around last night...

http//www.webrpg.com

There's a message forum/town hall and they don't even have Traveller 
(in any form) in their sci fi section!!!  I just browsed it for a 
few minutes, but you might want to check it out.  It looks very 
clean and well organized.  

No I don't work for them or have any association with them.

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:06:57 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Enormous EDU bonuses

>Andy wrote:
>>When proof-reading the original T4 rules I advocated that the EDU
>>alterations should be halved and combined with a maxing-out rule, but this
>>wasn't put in... 
(Snip)
>>since 2d6 is a bell curve, by definition achieving higher
>>stats isn't a linear process, so moving from 11->12 should be much more
>>costly than 6->7.
>
Glenn Hoppe answered:
>I agree. So why not have a success roll for attribute advances? Maybe 
>roll attribute or greater on 3d6 in order to advance?

        I suggest an alternative: Edu points acquired in college cannot be
directly added to UPP Edu. Each increase in Edu has to be bought at a
certain cost in Edu points, e.g. linearly increasing like this:

        From    To      Cost in points  Bell curve prob of the (to)
        4       5       1               - (4/36)
        5       6       1               - (5/36)
        6       7       1               - (6/36)
        7       8       1               5/36
        8       9       2               4/36
        9       10      3               3/36
        10      11      4               2/36
        11      12      5               1/36
        12      13      6               -
        13      14      7               -
        14      15      8               -
        And so on, unless we take 15 as a maximum.

        So, if a PC enters college with Edu 4, OK, he exits with Edu 8. But,
if a PC enters college with Edu 8, he gets Edu 9 + two Edu points, so if he
is a honors graduate he will get Edu 10. What would he do with the remnant
points? Keep track of them and add them to the Edu points get in Grad School
or others. And, when Character generation is finishes, if there are remnant
points, I see two alternatives:
        1) Roll 2- with a DM (T4 style) equal to the number of remnant
points to achieve the next Edu level anyway.
        2) Keep track of this Edu points, if the referee is using "adventure
tallies", MT-style.

        The effect, e.g. of College without Honors will be

        Edu when entering       Edu when no honors        Edu when honors
                                +Remnant Edu points     +Remnant Edu points
                4                       8 +0                    8 +1
                5                       8 +1                    9 +0
                6                       9 +0                    9 +1
                7                       9 +1                    9 +2
                8                       9 +2                   10 +0
                9                      10 +1                   10 +2
               10                      11 +0                   11 +1
               11                      11 +4                   12 +0
               12                      12 +4                   12 +5
               13                      13 +4                   13 +5
               14                      14 +4                   14 +5

        So, College does not make much for your Edu (in principle) if you
are already very well Educated, which makes sense. But, still, if you enter
college with Edu 14 and graduate with honors, you have 5 Edu points. If you
attend now grad school and also graduate with honors, you have now exactly 8
Edu points and so you can reach Edu 15.

        Comments? Flames? I have been thinking in some point-based system
from the minute I saw the +4 Edu in College...
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:32:40 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Antti Lahtinen wrote:

> 	While I was in the army, we had a nice deck of vehicle cards
> 	used in guerilla actions training. The cards showed a photo
> 	of a vehicle, some technical data, and an overhead drawing
> 	which showed the areas where the personnel inside the vehicle
> 	could see and the areas where the weapons could fire.


Way cool idea! This would be even better than an illustration of the
vehicle on the back...maybe a four panel illustration, a normal three view
(TBS) plus a schematic like Antti mentioned.

Any chance you could find and scan in an example or two of those cards?

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 06:17:40 UT
From: "Arthur Murphy" <MycroftHolmes@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Vehicles

Excellent design ideas, I guess the Module concept would refer to a standard 
size for the unit that could be transported by several different vehicles 
interchangeably?

Given both the cost in credits and the value of trained troops, designing 
APC's to transport 2 squads places too many eggs in one target. 

Arthur

- -----Original Message-----
From:	owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM  On Behalf Of CardSharks@aol.com
Subject:	Traveller Vehicles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:03:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Question

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Volker A. Greimann wrote:

> Zhodani agents report that sturm wrote:
> 
> -> Hi,
> -> 
> -> I have been a big Traveller fan for years and was wondering if any
> -> computer game computer had the rights to produce RPG's set in the
> -> Traveller universe.
> -> 
> There have been two Computer Games in the Early nineties by Paragon 
[snip good info on already published games]

To complete the answer; 

Sweetpea entertainment now has the rights to license any games based on
Traveller (with, I bet, Marc Miller's artistic approval) and I would be
suprised if they didn't already have something lined up in that regard.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:35:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:46:33 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>

> >> My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very* 
> >> unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to 
> >> survive. They rolled a 12.
> 
> Wimps.
> 
> I once jumped from inside a hanger!  (made it to, IIRC)

I can see this turning into a cool tall-tale contest.  "Yeah?  Well,
jumpin' from inside a hangar's a chancey thing, me lad, but let me tell ya
about the time me and me buckos jumped from the bottom of a mineshaft..."

And you *never* should have made it, of course.  I must've been feeling
particularly generous right then.

> Remind me, Craig, wasn't that one of our old Arameth campaigns, the one
> where I rolled like six pirate encounters in row, and we had to clear off
> the desk for each damn combat?

Well, when the GM likes space combat, for some odd reason a whole lot of
space combat seems to happen.  Funny thing, isn't it? :)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 18:08 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: [TML] ISBA

In-Reply-To: <32FFF419.2491@flash.net>

<< Andy's Survey is found at:
http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu/~indy/sectors/sectors.html >>

Oh no it isn't...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 18:08 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: NAS and psionics

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970218085403.0068ad58@mail.csrlink.net>

<<  This has probably been already discussed so I'm sorry if this is 
redundant
but I was wondering if a neural activity sensor could be blocked by a a
psionic shield helmet or by the psionic talent: shield? >>

Nope.
    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 18:08 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Question about "micro-jumps"

In-Reply-To: <970220.044334.7P4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

<< > My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very* 
> unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to 
> survive. They rolled a 12.

Did they jump at one *diameter* (one planetary radius *above* the
surface) or one *radius* (from the surface)? >>

The former. Surviving a jump from the surface would require an 
unmodified roll of 13...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 18:08 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Starship lifespan?

In-Reply-To: <v01540b02af2ede25c035@[130.217.138.133]>

> Just a quick question (and a change from the current threads), What is the
> standard operational life span of a Space ship?

Properly maintained, ships, aircraft, vehicles, etc can remain in service for 
at least 50 years. Since they spend most of their time in a non-corosive 
environment and have few moving parts, a starship should last at least 2 or 3 
times that. Frequent atmospheric re-entry and/or skimming will reduce this.

> Would there be any M0 ships
> arround in MT times?

Unlikely outside of a museum.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #974
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 21 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 975



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starship lifespan?
Re: Mustering out
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
Re: Plastic Batteries  in Traveller
Re: A Yawning week in jumpspace
Re: What does the computer do?
Re: Task System is Truly Porked
Re: Long Day's Journey Part IV: Conclusion
Re: Pilots v. Astrogator
Traveller Chronicle Web Page
vehicle cards
mercenery cruiser
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: Traveller Vehicles
re: racelist
Re:  Impossible Tasks (was T4 gripes)
Re: Traveller Question
Re: Questions in FS/M:0
Traveller News

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 18:08 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Starship lifespan?

In-Reply-To: <v01540b02af2ede25c035@[130.217.138.133]>

> Just a quick question (and a change from the current threads), What is the
> standard operational life span of a Space ship?

Properly maintained, ships, aircraft, vehicles, etc can remain in service for 
at least 50 years. Since they spend most of their time in a non-corosive 
environment and have few moving parts, a starship should last at least 2 or 3 
times that. Frequent atmospheric re-entry and/or skimming will reduce this.

> Would there be any M0 ships
> arround in MT times?

Unlikely outside of a museum.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:25:48 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Mustering out

Mark Jones (mwj1psy@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk) wrote:

>T4 characters can now change career, so how does this affect MO.
>1) Do they roll for each career seperately,
(Snip)
>This can make a major difference with the bonous's for ranks, e.g.
>career history Terms 1&2 Army reaching O3
>Term 3 Marine rank O3  (Army rank -1 + 1)
>Term 4 Law Enforcement O3 (Marine-1 +1)
(Snip)
> As you can see it makes a huge difference either 3, 6 or 10 rolls.

        A similar question applied in MT for Vargr characters, who could
also change careers, but there rank was not so important. For T4, I am
handling it this way (warning: possibly heretical house rules):

        Do M.O. separately for each career. Apply Rank bonuses counting the
number of promotions in the career. In your example:
        Roll 4 times on army tables (2 terms + 2 for O3), 2 times on marine 
tables (1 term +1 for 1 promotion, equivalent to O1) and 2 times on the law
enforcement table (1 term +1 for 1 promotion, equivalent to O1) for a total
of 8 rolls.
        This guy still obtains some more skills than an individual with 4
terms on the same career and rank O5 (5 promotions) (that would be 7 rolls),
but the guy with rank O5 gets a +1 on the Benefits Table.
        I think this is more "fair" that the method sketched in the T4 book.
There, it says "receive 2 more skills if the character has received rank O3
in the service", which is not the same that having received three
promotions... Following this strictly will lead to 10 rolls for the
character above.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:35:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:

> starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf) wrote:
> 
> >The rules in FF&S somewhat takes into account for the extra volume a
> >external craft adds to the hull. But it does not mention the hull
> >grid. The solution may be that the grid is thicker or more just more
> >of it at the external grapples, making it possible to include the
> >external craft, without the hassle of designing jump grid on external
> >crafts.

The jump net surrounding a starship is simply not covered in the design,
combat or, for that matter, anywhere in 'canon' rules.  The only place
where it is decently treated is in SOH, by DPG.  There are mentions of the
importance of Lanthium to Jump technology in some old CT modules, but I
really cannot think of anywhere else it is covered.

In my campaign, I handle external craft/drop tanks in one of the following
ways:

1)  Field amplifiers - increases the volume of the jump field w/out
extending the Lanthium grid.  (not very stable so it cannot be used in an
area intended for Life Support)

2)  Jump Nets - much like boat covers on 'wet' Navy ships, the support
crew will cover the external craft/whatever with a flexible 'mesh' that
has Lanthium field wires woven into it.  The mesh is tied into the main
jump net at prepared points to extend the field as required.

3) Recessed bays - while still external to the hull, the docking point is
actually recessed into the hull, allowing the primary field to form over
the craft, without additional material or handling.

4) Lanthium grid on the external craft which is automatically tied into
the primary field.

Hope this helps!

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:16:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Plastic Batteries  in Traveller

In mail you write:

> TL-9 Plastic Battery
> All rates are per cubic centemeter.
>
> 0.5g
> 500j storage
> 5j/sec max discharge rate
>
> For example a cell of this plastic 1cm square and 10cm long (10m^3) would 
> have 5KJ of energy stored within it and power something up to 50Watts for 
> 100seconds before recharge, or a 50 Watt weapon with 100 charges,  and only 
> mass 5 grams.

50 watts is not a usable weapon. 50 *kilowatts* is pretty wimpy for a laser.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:07:58 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: A Yawning week in jumpspace

Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net> wrote:

>Maybe I'm just bent this way, but has anyone ever considered having
>encounters of one sort or another _in_ jumpspace?  Having a partial failure
>of jump systems ("we've lost lateral controls, Captain!") and risking a
>misjump if your astrogation skill rolls aren't made, getting caught in
>currents or "rapids", encountering beings that live there, or TL17/Ancients
>ships or civilizations glimpsed or even found there?

        IIRC, it has already been done. I remember something called HPPE
about Hiperspace Psionic something Entities appearing in Challenge, and also
some references about receiving transmissions from a missing ship while in
Jumpspace, related to the Abyss Rift in the Spinward Marches. This was also
in Challenge. I think there was even a whole adventure where the PCs docked
with another ship while in Jumpspace (with a Zhodani passenger). I'll check
the references this weekend.
        Jumpspace is a very strange place. And maybe not all the ships that
disappear misjump. And, when a ship misjumps and takes 1000 years to
re-appear, it has to be somewhere in Jumpspace during all that time, right?

>As a player I finally
>learned to spend that week practicing skills or (better) digging through
>the computer for relevant info, but it always seemed to me it could be used
>for something more exciting from time to time.

        He, he, he. My players learned the first, and then I as a referee
learned the second. But there are easier ways to put some fun on these
yawning Jumpspace weeks. Among the ones that I have used: Hijacking
attempts, computer failures, medical emergencies, problems with passengers,
and even a timebomb on the cargo hold.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:56:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What does the computer do?

In mail you write:

> I was wondering what everyone allows "the ship's computer" to take care of
> during flight. I personally like the idea of a voice-activated computer
> being very helpful to the crew, but I don't give the computer a lot of
> leeway for independent action. I require sophont action for sensor scans,
> communications, course changes, jump vector generation, instrument watches,
> damage control, and many other things.
>
> I'll let the computer handle "dialing in the com laser onto the spaceport",
> or "selecting the proper radio frequency", but if you want clearance to
> orbit, you have to ask Traffic Control yourself. I won't let a player say,
> "Computer, give me a complete sensor scan, and report any anomalies"... if
> he wants to scan for something, he has to do it himself. I'll tell him  the
> results based on what he tells me he's looking for, and where, and on his
> Sensor Ops roll. After all, the definition of "anomaly" is pretty broad,
> when you think about it....

Take a good look at the difference between what's *possible* now and
what we actually let computers *do* in aircraft and ships. The computer
isn't allowed to "make decisions". It supplies info, which the pilot
has to make decisions about. And it carries out orders.

So while the computer can report hazards (*if* you have told it to do
so), it isn't allowed to take action based on their existence. For
example, it can report that you are "too close" to another plane or the
ground, but it isn't allowed to force you farther away. The *human* has
the final control, both practically and legally.

This is why a few aircraft control systems (*mostly* "fly-by-wire", but
also some "conventional" ones) are rather controversial. They are
designed to not *let* the pilot do certain things. Trouble is,
"exceeding design parameters" may bend (or even break) parts of the
plane, but sometimes the alternative is crashing. 

> I require the astrogator to be much more involved in jump vector plotting
> than simply saying, "Jump vector for Efate, please, Computer." I won't let
> the computer make any course changes except to avoid collisions... if you
> program in a course that takes you through the middle of that BatRon on
> maneuvers, the computer will let you. After all, *you're* the one whose
> piloting license will get lifted!

The computer won't be *allowed* to change course that way. Why? Because
the difference between a collision course, a fast intercept, and a
rendezvous is all in when you do the final braking. So expect the
computer to warn you (loudly!) but not be able to do anything other
than log the warning if you ignore it.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:32:27 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Task System is Truly Porked

Ross Coburn wrote:

>
>Have to agree with ol' Darroch there; having been one of the chief
>miscreants in A Long Day's Journey (and I feel rather bad about it
>actually; I used to have such respect for low-key Traveller mercantilism),
>I can state with complete confidence that the tast system isn't worth the
>paper it's printed on.  Combat system is pretty sucky, too.  It really has
>the feel of having been designed by wargamers, with greater emphasis on
>small unit tactics than the kind of one-on-one (or
>one-on-one-plus-an-apparently-teenaged-baroness-may-she-rot!) encounters
>one would tend to expect in Traveller.
>
>
>Mr Cr.02, Isaac can now afford it.


        Don't count those pirated ships before they're sold, dude... >:).


        Something else has occurred to me... the T4 system doesn't really
provide for dealing with low-down sneaky underhandedness, whereas
StoryTeller does.  I'm seriously tempted, once we get underway again, to
simply resurrect my 10-siders and play Trav using StoryTeller.  Using
StoryTeller, I doubt that Isaac would have survived that first shot :), and
there would have been some chance for all involved to make Manipulation +
Subterfuge rolls to see through each other's evil plans.

        And Isaac might have not been blinded by the cheesecake, as it
were.  Actually, come to think about it, I'm _amazed_ that you fell for
that one.  Forgotten London already, have we?


        I think that it'd adapt pretty darn easy; double the damage dice
for all the weapons and you're laughing...

        Whadday think?  Storyteller for tasks & combat, and T4 for
everything else?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:32:20 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey Part IV: Conclusion

Kelly St.-Clair wrote:

>Thanks for posting your (quite entertaining) campaign writeup.  Some
>  miscellaneous comments:
>
>>  Given >that the Rat Things are in a situation analogous to the
>>proto-Vilani, a certain >amount of cannibalism occurs.
>
>Aie, THE THREAD THAT WOULD NOT DIE!
>
>*grin*


        Well, I started it... I might as well keep the thing shambling
along, no :)?


>
>I share your mystification/horror at Lt. Duschenko's actions.  Perhaps
>  Ross is the sort of player who hates to lose/be humiliated, and took
>  it out on the Dame and her party after they caught him flat-footed?


        Why... whatever gave you that impression?  Actually, Lt. Duschenko
wasn't played by Ross; he was played by another guy, equally scary albeit
in a tall, skinny, Anton-LaVeyesque sort of way.  But boy was Ross pissed
when Dame Sisao shot Xyroli :)

        What was it you said Ross? "Dammit!  Duped by cheesecake"?



>
>Ross, may I suggest that you and Xyroli switch to decaf?  Or to TNE,
>  where acts of senseless violence are encouraged by the Powers That
>  Be?  (ObDig at TNE dungeon-crawl syndrome)


        Well, again, 'twasn't Ross's character that was committing the
senseless and counterproductive acts of mass murder on defenseless
shipwreck survivors; Ross's character was the one committing senseless acts
of genocide with a 95 mj laser against a bunch of harmless TL-0 cute mutant
white fluffy lab rats :)

        Maybe Xyroli was just phobic about rats.  Really phobic; didn't
even fire a warning shot.  Who knows :).
>


>
>I hope that you're able to find a way to continue/restart your game.
>  When you do, might I suggest that you ask the players what kind of
>  campaign they want to play?  Given your description so far, it
>  sounds like many of them are interested in shooting things,
>  including each other...


        Well, that's exactly what I'm planning.  I have to take a couple of
weeks break from gaming (indeed, most of the things that make life
worthwhile) in order to get some work done, but in the interim I've
instructed the group to confer and come up with some suggestions.  In the
meantime, I'll pick up M0 and start bashing some ideas around


>
>While characters with active, even lethal grudges toward each other
> can provide lots of roleplaying, it also places a lot of strain on
>  the GM to keep them pointed in one direction and not at each other's
>  throats.  Traveller, with its usual band of ex-military PCs with
>  shady backgrounds thrown together by circumstance, can be
>  particularly bad this way (though not as much as, say, CYBERPUNK).
>

        Well, actually, in this respect, the carnage was a case of what
goes around comes around; Xyroli, and Ross's character in the last campaign
I ran, was basically concieved of as a vehicle for revenge...  You see,
some time ago I was playing this character in this Vampire campaign he was
running, and I think I managed to scar him permanently.  He's been
whingeing about a certain train ride to Boston ever since :).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:27:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Pilots v. Astrogator

On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Rich Ostorero wrote:

> I agree; it's an utter waste of life support to have a dedicated
> astrogator who is busy for only a short time every 7-14 days. My
> solution? I assume that astrogation skill covers both J and N-space
> astrogation, and for optimal results in N-space, a ship must have an
> astrogator. I further assume that "one-man" vessels like fighters or
> scout/couriers have astro systems optimized for one-man operations while
> larger vessels "work best" with a full crew.
> 
> Non-optimal results include poor jumps (minor temporial or spatial
> errors) or badly-plotted N-space vectors (extra time taken to go places
> in N-space).
> 
> That's how *I* play it, Brad :)
> 
> --Rich
> lordbasl@inreach.com
> 

Just for the record, I checked the skill description and Astrogation
covers both N-space navigation and J-space computions.

I don't see why everyone is coming down on the astrogator, they do more
real work than 90% of the pilots would do.  Lets look at, realistically,
what a pilot does.

Take off from a class 'A' or 'B' starport: File flight plan (prepared by
astrogator), check ship status (maintained by engineers), ensure
passengers aboard and prepped for take-off (done by Stewards), communicate
with ground and air traffic control, lock flight plan into computer and
authorize liftoff (facilitated by ATC computer), establish orbit (IAW
course prepared by the astrogator), communicate with Orbital Traffic
Control and/or System Defense Command, break orbit and manuever to jump
point (IAW course prepared by the astrogator), ensure J-Drive is ready for
engagement (done by engineers), authorize jump (actually performed by nav
computer IAW jump plot prepared by astrogator).  So let's see, the pilot
signs off on the flight plan, _perhaps_ touches a control during liftoff,
talks to a bunch of people, and tells the computer that it's ok to jump.

I think for a standard merchant, I'd rather have an astrogator with a
pilot's license, rather than a Pilot who can astrogate...

Now, I know there are people who are going to say "Wait!  We have that
Pilot-7 for emergencies, like combat"  Well, if you are going to pay the
big bucks for a pilot that good, then why are you whimpering over the
money required to give him the support staff needed to allow him to
concentrate on flying at that level?  

BTW - remember if you do have a pilot-7, he is probably going to get bored
with standard flying real quick - we have a PC Pilot in my campaign who
'forgets' to engage the flight computers on a regular basis, just to keep
his edge.  It certainly makes the trips to orbit a bit more challenging!

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:32:54 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Traveller Chronicle Web Page

        Where is the Traveller Chronicle Web page? It used to be at
http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu/~indy/traveller.html, but it's not there
anymore. Andy's Guide to the Universe used to be around there, but it's
missing, too. Somebody knows? Harold?
        Thanx.
        Carlos.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: vehicle cards

     First off, I like the card idea (or even a book with these).
     Second, some of these have no need to be TL12/fusion+ designs (and
some would of course make no sense in a vacuum (aircraft/helicopters/most
of the ground vehicles)
      Artillery modules (unless mobile) make no sense (given advanced fire
control systems/detectors), same for some of the other modules.
      The cargo carriers should probably be based off the troop
carriers/APCs.
      I'd like to see shipboard displacement they take up also.
      Rather than endurance it might be better to just have a Range based
on x amount of fuel (that way refueling needs can be figured).

      Other vehicles it would be interesting to see:

Watercraft Hydrofoil
Watercraft Hovercraft
Watercraft Speed Boat
Watercraft Canoe
Watercraft Submersible (1 and 2 person)
Watercraft Submersible (small, less than 7-10 crew)
Watercraft Submersible (large)
Watercraft Patrol Boat
Watercraft Frigate
Watercraft Destroyer
Watercraft Jeep carrier (some vessel that can carry 6-10 air vehicles at
least)

Lighter-than-Air-Craft  Helium Blimp (small)
Lighter-than-Air-Craft  Helium Blimp (large)
Lighter-than-Air-Craft  Helium Blimp w. Helo
Lighter-than-Air-Craft  Helium Blimp w. small contra-grav

Aircraft  paraglider
Aircraft  paraglider with prop.
Aircraft  FWJ stealth


      By the way, I don't know if CSC covers rules for watercraft, but Terry
McInnes might be of some help there if you need it. As well as with some of
the aircraft maybe.

bryan borich

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:03:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: mercenery cruiser

Request for Proposal

    ImpBu has decided there is a need for a military auxiliary vessel that
has the capability to insert a small number of troops into varied
environments. Minimum requirements include the capability to carry at least
three squads, plus their support personnel into varied situations, including
hostile landings (however drop tubes as a fixed feature are not allowed as
not
all troops will be trained to use them). Provide Command and Control
capabilities for them. Be able to provide fire support to the troops. Be
capable of at least two month's sustained engagement and provide medical care
for the troops. Capable of providing some sort of mechanized transport for
the troops.
    Additional points will be given for flexibility of mission design.
Ability to provide close support for the vessel and the troops. Designs
that qualify for these additional points will be granted a 10%-20% discount
when compared against other submitted vessels.
    As usual a low maintenance cost is desired.


(The original Broadsword Mercenary cruiser was created and subsidized by the
Imperial bureaucracy to provide additional protection and order by mercenary
troops in instances where regular troops aren't available. It is also used as
an auxiliary military vessel in the Imperial Navy.
     It was created somewhere after year 988 (modular cutters weren't
in production till 988).
     It could carry two modular cutters and 4 modules, plus one air/raft.
It had the capability to carry 4 fighters (6-ton), an ATV, a weapons pod, a
passenger module, fuel skimming module, an assualt boat module, a pressurized
shelter and a cargo module.
     It had a sickbay.
     There were many varied designs, some armed, some not. Some with more
armor.

     Some suggestions that come to mind for the new version include CBM
missiles if the ship is equipped with missile turrets. Anti-personnel/
Anti-vehicle weapons on auxiliary vessels if used to ferry troops or
provide support to troops. If main vessel is to be landed, it should
probably also have similar weapons.
     Melieu Zero vessels are most probably corporate (through various
parties) or military owned. I wouldn't expect too many unaffiliated mercenary
companies around, yet.

Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:06:21 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

In a message dated 97-02-21 06:55:56 EST, you write:

> 	I just hope that the vehicle speed would shown in some "normal"
>  	units, for example "km/h" or "m/s". It jut bugs me when some
>  	games present the vehicle speeds in "kilometers traveled in 4
>  	hour period", "combat system distance units per combat system
>  	turn" or in some other "furlongs per fortnight" units.
>  
>  
Furlongs per fortnight? I would want a standard like kph.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:18:23 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

In a message dated 97-02-21 13:31:11 EST, you write:

> 
>  Given both the cost in credits and the value of trained troops, designing 
>  APC's to transport 2 squads places too many eggs in one target. 
>  

True. But on some worlds, the troops have a relatively low value. Or they
could be BIG people (as opposed to humans).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:17:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: re: racelist

  Brinn	- Traveller's Digest
  Ojeshodu -
  Xapogoz -
  Cafadans -
  Answerin -
  Vilani - Vilani & Vargr Aliens module
  Khulan -
  Tahavi -
  Thaggeshi -
  Minlad -
  Lasat -
  Jag-Il-Jad - JTAS
  Kolzar -
  Githiaskio - JTAS
  Ael Yael - JTAS
  Suerrat -
  Geonee -

   Two of the JTAS ones are currently on my web site (Jag & Githiasko),
and at least two-three others I have write-up's on, but don't remember if
they were officially published.

   web site: http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/index

   Look under JTAS index.

    I'll add the racelist tonight  or this weekend which should answer your
question more clearly.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:54:49 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re:  Impossible Tasks (was T4 gripes)

Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:56:28 -0800 (PST), "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
>I don't like the idea of lots of negative
>modifiers to the target number makes a fairly clean and easy to use
>task system quite clumsy.

It's not that one is better than the other.  It's that there
is not reason to use both...

A system where you roll against a constant number
(like skill) with a constant number of dice is fine with
variable modifiers if fine.  Rolling variable dice without
modifiers is easy enough too.  But roll variable dice _and_
using modifiers is two different things handling the same
thing (task difficulty) and so is more complicated than
it neeeds to be.

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:51:40 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Question

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> 
> > Zhodani agents report that sturm wrote:
> >
> > -> Hi,
> > ->
> > -> I have been a big Traveller fan for years and was wondering if any
> > -> computer game computer had the rights to produce RPG's set in the
> > -> Traveller universe.
> > ->
> > There have been two Computer Games in the Early nineties by Paragon
> [snip good info on already published games]
> 
> To complete the answer;
> 
> Sweetpea entertainment now has the rights to license any games based on
> Traveller (with, I bet, Marc Miller's artistic approval) and I would be
> suprised if they didn't already have something lined up in that regard.

BTW, Sweetpea is going with a live action show for Traveller, which brings me to 2 points
1. Good, I would like to see Traveller as a show
2. Bad, they never even got back to me re: my idea of a Traveller Cartoon (I work for an 
animation studio). I don't mind being snubbed, but I do mind being left hanging

(Sorry, just venting)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:47:34 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Questions in FS/M:0

Alan Nuss wrote:

>   Brinn
Old Traveller's Digest (around 10 I think), Big Bugs with an attitude
>   Answerin
Mentioned briefly in Vilani and Vargr
>   Vilani
Featured in Vilani and Vargr, founded First Imperium
>   Jag-Il-Jad
Old article in The Journal, Gas Giant Dwellers
>   Kolzar
>   Githiaskio
Old article in the journal, squids 
>   Ael Yael
Old article in the Journal, flying warriors
>   Suerrat
mentioned here and there, picture in Solomani and Aslan
>   Geonee
Old issue of Traveller's Digest featured them, and the TMLs own Carlos is our resident 
expert
> Alan
this race sounds just too weird to be real

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:59:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Traveller News

Hi folks,

I've received several questions recently which I was unable to answer 
immediately.  I spoke with Tim Brown today, and he provided some answers:

Q.  When is Emperor's Arsenal going to be released?

A.  Emperor's Arsenal has been written and edited, and is now in the 
typsetting process.  Tim expects to have it off to the printer next week, 
and then begin shipping them by the end of the following week (the first 
week of March).  Let's hope all goes well!


Q.  When is the Referee Screen going to be released?

A.  It will go to the printer at the same time as Emperor's Arsenal, and 
Tim expects it to ship at the same time (again, the first week of March).


Q.  When, and in what product, will the Vargr be covered?

A.  Although this year's schedule has yet to be finalized, the current 
plan is to produce a series of hardback books, each with two major alien 
races detailed within.  The first would be Aslan and Vargr, and Tim hopes 
to release it sometime in August.  Subsequent volumes would follow.


Q.  When will the forms (subsector map, subsector data, etc.) be 
available?  What product will they be in?

A.  Tim hopes to receive permission to put them on the web site.  Marc 
plans to also put all the forms in the Deluxe T4 book.


Q.  Will there be four-color sector maps available, like the old Spinward 
Marches map?

A.  Currently, there are no plans for four-color, poster-sized maps.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #975
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 976



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Chronicle Web Page
Re: Questions in FS/M:0
Re: Questions in FS/M:0
Re: Questions in FS/M:0
Traveller Integrated Timeline
Re: Questions in FS/M:0
Re:  Impossible Tasks (was T4 gripes)
Re: T4 task system
Re: T4-Gripes
Re: Some post-game comments on the task system...
Re: T4 task system
[none]
Re: Skill Acquisition Extension
Re: MT Attributes
Re: Some post-game comments on the task system...
Re: Re:T4 Gripes
Re: Traveller Chronicle Web Page
Official Request for IG, Marc, or Greg
M0 and TNS
Re: Misjumps
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
RE: A long day's journey...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:36:51 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Chronicle Web Page

>    Where is the Traveller Chronicle Web page? It used to be at
>http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu/~indy/traveller.html, but it's not 
>there anymore. Andy's Guide to the Universe used to be around there, 
>but it's missing, too. Somebody knows? Harold?

http://member.aol.com/swrdknght/sok.htm

Regards,

Harold

P.S.  TTC #12 is now being shipped.  My contribution is somewhat limited
this time around due to illness.  I will continue to produce Children of
Earth material so long as people show interest or somebody pays me to
stop (small, unmarked bills are appreciated).

- -h

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:26:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Questions in FS/M:0

Alan Nuss asked about:

Brinn       -- Nasty exotic-atmosphere-breathing arthropods.  TD-12
Ojeshodu    -- Minor non-humans: TD-18, say indices, but I don't recall them.
Xapogoz     -- Same as indexed "Xapoqi"?  TD-18?  I don't remember them.
Cafadans    -- Minor humans: TD-3, say indices, but I don't recall them.
Answerin    -- Minor humans, reject fear as a disease.  Mid-50's Challenge? 
Vilani      -- Major Race (humans)
Khulan      ?
Tahavi      -- Manta-like aquatic minor race contacted early by Vilani
Thaggeshi   -- Primitive minor human race contacted early by Vilani
Minlad      -- Pre-sentients not discovered until late 3rd Imperium.
Lasat       -- Minor non-humans: TD-6, say indices, but I don't recall them.
Jag-Il-Jad  -- Gas-giant dwelling inexplicable aliens.  See JTAS-17.
Kolzar      -- Minor non-humans: TD-5, say indices, but I don't recall them.
Githiaskio  -- Squid-like aquatic minor race.  See JTAS-16.
Ael Yael    -- Flying hexapodal minor race.  See JTAS-15.
Suerrat     -- Arboreal minor human race, expanded via generation ships.
Geonee      -- Short high-G minor human race, copied Ancient j-drive.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 97 00:05:17 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Questions in FS/M:0

Alan Nuss:
>While going through First Survey I came across various alien homeworlds
>listed.  Some I know while others I never heard of.  Perhaps someone 
>will post where to find information on these aliens.

Well, I'll try and give you as many sources as I can remember and dredge 
up in my collection... Something I've been thinking about for some time 
is compiling an "encyclopaedia" of Traveller aliens, listing a brief 
description of each; homeworld, if known; and references in Traveller 
materials.

Anyone with Traveller Alien info and biographies are welcome to email me, 
for possible inclusion on a website...

To your list!

>  Brinn

Methane-breathing sophont decended from Carnivore/killer stock. 
Traveller's Digest #12

>  Ojeshodu
>  Xapogoz
>  Cafadans

Hmmmm... none ring a bell.

>  Answerin

Human minor race. They think fear is a disease of the mind. Mentioned in 
Vilani & Vargr.

>  Vilani

You're either kidding here, or you're *really* new to Traveller. ;-)

Human major race originating on Vland. First of humaniti to develop the 
jump drive. My favourite Traveller supplement detailing them is Digest 
Group's "Vilani and Vargr".

>  Khulan

dunno.

>  Tahavi

Aquatic intelligent mantas, mentioned briefly in Vilani & Vargr.

>  Thaggeshi

Human minor race, first humans Vilani contacted, V&V.

>  Minlad
>  Lasat

The above are unknown to me.

>  Jag-Il-Jad

That's "Jgd-Il-Jagd"

Gas-giant dwelling intelligent species. JTAS #17

>  Kolzar

Dunno.

>  Githiaskio

Intelligent aquatic sophonts. JTAS #16

>  Ael Yael

JTAS #15 (I don't have it. Bummer.)

>  Suerrat

Kinda hairy human minor race.

>  Geonee

Dwarf-like human minor race. Mentioned in several places, including V&V. 
Cool pix of the Suerrat & Geonee can be found in DGP's Solomani & Aslan.


- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 97 00:15:16 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Questions in FS/M:0

>Perhaps someone 
>will post where to find information on these aliens.

UPDATE:

I found this neat list of Traveller Aliens at Bryan Borich's Website:

http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/racelist.htm

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 2:16:40 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Traveller Integrated Timeline

Well, my gaming convention (the one I run) is over for another year, and I
have time again to improve/update the timeline...

http://www.prairienet.org/~dmckinne/trav.html

In addition to the items posted at the site, I know there are problems with
accessing the information...

I was hoping for a more "database" oriented approach, where you could
retrieve a custom timeline based on keyword searches.  However, I have been
unable to find a tool which would allow such an interface.

So, I am going to break the timeline into "Milleu" based pages, unless 
someone has a better idea, or knows of a tool which can give me the 
keyword search I'm wanting...

- --
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist,           (217) 351-8250 x2365 = 
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL       dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998    =
= Official Kibitzer and Archivist for Digest Group Publications            =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org       (217) 469-9917 = 
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:35:04 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Questions in FS/M:0

> While going through First Survey I came across various alien homeworlds
> listed.  Some I know while others I never heard of.  Perhaps someone 
> will post where to find information on these aliens.
> 
>   Brinn

These are available in an old DGP Traveller's Digest.  I can find the 
issue if you need to know.


>   Vilani

You've never heard of the Vilani?


>   Jag-Il-Jad

In an old JTAS


>   Ael Yael

JTAS again

>   Geonee

Talk to Scott G about this one!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:35:07 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re:  Impossible Tasks (was T4 gripes)

> I tend to agree.  I'd say that someone with a 17 target number should
> have a realistic chance of performing an impossible task, where
> someone with a target number of 9 would not.  However, a I see a 
> reasonable chance as 20% to 25%, higher than that means to me
> that  it is something the PC can count on working. 

Under my system, a target number of 17 has a 48.71% chance.  Hmm, 
50-50, I'd say that it is realistic.

OTOH, a target number of 9 only has a 1.62% chance--that is 
definitely not realistic.


> 
> I can see Kenneth's point, but I don't like the idea of lots of negative
> modifiers to the target number makes a fairly clean and easy to use
> task system quite clumsy.

What negative modifiers are you referring?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:35:06 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

> >1)  By just adding skill and attribute, the system unfairly weighted
> >towards the attributes, and you run into problems like this:
> >
> >	Jan has a Pilot-1 skill and a Dex-11.  Rob has a Pilot-4 skill and a
> >	Dex-6.
> >
> >	Since Jan's target number is 12 and Rob's target number is 10, Jan
> >	should pilot the ship even though Rob is more skilled than Jan by
> >	far.
> 
> To me, Rob is more "trained".  He is also a clutz who is going
> to take a lot of work to ever make into a decent pilot.

How can you say he's a clutz?  He's got a Dex of 6.  When 7 is normal 
human Dexterity, a 6 is by no means clutzy.

And, although I think that natural ability should count for a lot in 
the target number, it is not more important than a person's skill.

I may have a natural ability to throw darts, but learning technique 
(how to hold the dart, how to control and stop a bounce, where to 
place the dart, not to mention strategy) is more important.

Natural, raw talent can only get you so far.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:41:39 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4-Gripes

> For me this is the worst feature of T4. Attributes are more important 
> than skills, and cost the same to aquire during character creation.
> A combat based character will put the two highest stat dice in Dex 
> and add +1 dex untill they reach 15, since this will increase their 
> ability with all the combat skills (pistol, rifle, laser etc.).

I don't roll up characters that way.  I give my players one shot, and 
one shot only.

I say, "Strength", and the player rolls 2 D6.  Whatever the outcome 
is his starting STR.  Then I say, "Dex", and again, whatever is 
rolled is his starting STR.

If he rolls really lousy, then he's going to have to give up a skill 
and try for an attribute on the Physical table.


> 
> The main problem (IMHO) is that the range of stats is from 1-15. In 
> other stat based games I play and run- Torg/Masterbook, James Bond, and 
> Feng-Shui the actual range of stats for any characteristic is much 
> smaller:

Exactly.  The attributes are contributing to much to the target 
number.  This is why, under my system, that I double the skill level 
and halve the stat to get the target number.  It puts both components 
of the target number on more level ground.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:35:05 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Some post-game comments on the task system...

>         To be honest, I still do not understand what was wrong with th MT
> task system. I am seriously considering using only MT rules for the moment
> being, or adapting them to the more skilled T4 PCs.

Personally, I don't think that anything is wrong with the MT system.  
It is a good system.

But, you have to continue to convert T4 stuff to MT stuff.  Also, 
thinking of the second modifier all the time lead to some debate in 
my games.  You know--"Should I use my EDU or INT on this throw as a 
modifer with that particular skill?"

T4 makes all this easy.  Another thing--T4 gives you full benefit 
from your ability.  In MT, you could only get 1 or 2 points, in most 
cases, added to your throw.  There isn't much difference, task system 
wise, in haveing a 5 DEX or a 9 DEX, eventhough that is quite a 
spread.  In T4, as written, you get the full 4 points, and in my 
system, the difference is 2 points.

I know that this is a simple comparasion, because one system only 
uses two dice AND gives you a target number to beat whereas in T4 
your target number is composed entirely by your ablity and skill 
level.

I think T4 is a sleeker system that makes more sense, but hey, if you 
like MT and don't mind the conversion things that you have to do, 
then more power to you.  I certainly don't think that MT is broken.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:48:08 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

> Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> writes:
> 
> >In a nutshell, the KBv1.1 system is two simple changes to the T4 task
> >system as written.
> >
> >        1)  Use the new target number calculation (half stat, twice skill)
> >
> >        2)  Change Staggering to 4D;  change Impossible to 5D
> 
> I was one of the people dissing Mr. Bearden's task system when he
> originally proposed it. I didn't like the use of 1/2 dice, felt it did not
> make stats important enough, and was harder to calculate. However, after
> actually trying it out in my campaign, I'm now a believer. When I objected
> to it I used examples with skills of 5 or 6, but as Kenneth points out most
> characters' skills are in the 1 to 3 range. Trying out his system with real
> characters showed it to stand up admirably in a variety of situations with
> both high and low target numbers, which only need to be calculated once and
> written down. Well done, Mr. Bearden. Now would you mind taking a look at
> the experience system?
> 
> Richard Hough
> rdhough@orca.bc.ca

Thanks, Richard.  I do believe in my fix, and I'm glad it is working 
for you.  

The xp system is on my list for a fix.  I just need to sit down and 
do it.

Thanks, again.

Kenneth.

PS  I write the target numbers on my character sheets too, but I also 
re-calculate if the character is wounded.  I don't find it a problem 
to double something and add it to half of something during the game.  
You might try it that way--the T4 system is designed to lower the 
target number, and thus your character's ability to succeed at tasks, 
when he is wounded.


> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:14:20 +0000
From: Colin Hollands <cmhtml@london.mis.slb.com>
Subject: [none]

For Everybodies info

If you try http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu which is where Andy's house and
Traveller Chronical are it says "We are changing Operating Systems and we
will be down for a few days" so far that has been two weeks, i should
imagine a few people are a bit pissed off at the moment, if i had let a
machine be down for two weeks doing an upgrade id've been fired.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:18:11 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Skill Acquisition Extension

> SINCE MT'S skill list is about 50% longer than CT's, or on par with the
> fully extended CT Advanced CGen, that gives similar value to skill levels.

BTW, I use all of the skill lists from CT, MT, and T4 
interchangeably.  A skill is a skill, and I like to think I'm still 
getting use out of all of those old products I bought.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:18:12 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: MT Attributes

>
> Dex 8 is better than dex 6 because you are less likely to lose the bonus
> while injured. Remember, Kenneth, that MT's modifiers are based upon
> Current (wounded) attributes

This is the case in T4 too.  You get damaged, your stats go down, and 
down goes your target number.


> 
> >Under T4, the difference is 2 whole points of benefit, and every Dex
> >increase increases your chance to hit.  Under my system, you still
> >get a better increase with each Dex level although it is only half
> >that of the T4 system (by design).
> 
> So what? Endurance and Strength both have non-combat roles as well. See
> also above.

Granted, but you are missing the point.  I just used "to hit" as an 
example.  My point was, no matter what you are doing, you get more 
benefit by your attributes in T4 because each and every point (or 
every other point) increases your target number.  In MT, in order to 
get a benefit, your attributes must go up by 5--that only leaves 1, 2 
or 3 points of benefit.


> 
> >This is one of the things that convinced me that T4 had a superior
> >system to MT, and believe me, I was an ardent defender of the MT
> >system.
> 
> It is one of the things I DISLIKE about T4 and TNE: 1:1 ratio of benefit
> for skills and attributes. I AGREE that 5:1 is too steep, and feel 2:1 too
> shallow, and so 3:1 is my house rule for MT. But see also above.

Hmm.  3:1 in favor of stats?  I can't agree with that.  Natural 
ability is important, but experience and trainging are more important 
to anything you do.

Why else would Olympic skaters practice all the time?  They've got 
the natural ability, but they need to increase their skill level.

Put a skater with great natural ability against a skater who has 
trained all her life, but only has so-so natural ability, and my 
money will always be on the one who is trained.

Kenneth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:18:10 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Some post-game comments on the task system...

>         Thus, I hereby announce that I'm adopting Kenneth Bearden's task
> system fix.

Great, another convert. 

I'd like IG to take a look at this fix.  It simple enough and close 
to the original rules enough to be put into one of the supplements as 
an optional rule.

What about it IG?  No charge, of course.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:18:09 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Re:T4 Gripes

> >> Also, there's that college thing. In T4, you get an ATTRIBUTE INCREASE
> >> (much better than a skill with the new task system) every year PLUS a
> >> skill every year you spend in school. 
> 
> > So use the T4 college rules before the character goes into the 1 year 
> > method.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by the one-year method here.

Well, I can't remember what exactly was said in the post I was 
replying to, but I think that it was  said that the T4 college 
system was more powerful than the college system they had in CT.

Or, maybe it was that it was said that college is a real benefit in 
T4, thus making the argument that the T4 characters were much more 
powerful than any of the CT characters generated in the 1 year 
method.

My response to both of those, whichever it was, is that you should 
use the T4 college system as a pre-generation option before moving 
into one of the CT systems.  Just because you use the T4 college 
system doesn't mean that you HAVE to use T4 character generation.
Mix and match--I do.

Another thing occurrs to me.  This is something that I'm already 
doing, but I haven't mentioned before.

If you want to use your old CT generation stuff (I mean the 4 year 
method systems in Book 1, or in Citizens of the Imperium, or even the 
4 year careers in MT) then just simply give the characters a skill 
once per year than onece per term.

Waaalaaa, problem solved.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:37:33 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Chronicle Web Page

Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:
> 
>         Where is the Traveller Chronicle Web page? It used to be at
> http://eeyore.lv-hrc.nevada.edu/~indy/traveller.html, but it's not there
> anymore. Andy's Guide to the Universe used to be around there, but it's
> missing, too. Somebody knows? Harold?
>         Thanx.
>         Carlos.

You're right! I just tried to link to Sword of the Knight's main website
at http://members.aol.com/swrdknght/sok.htm and received the message:

"The requested URL was not found on this server."

Does anyone have any non-Web connections with them? Has anyone received
Chronicle #12?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:42:26 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Official Request for IG, Marc, or Greg

Marc, Greg, someone at IG, help!

Here's a quickie that I'd like to see,  and I'm sure 
the whole TML would print and keep the answer if you can relay it.  

My request has to do with armor values.

My campaign is set in the 1100's, and I'm trying to use the armor of 
that time--Combat Armor, high tech B-Dress, Cloth, etc.

What would be the Armor values of the CT/MT/TNE  armors in T4?

At first, I compared TNE and MT AVs to the AVs in T4.  MT was way 
too high (TL14 B Dress AV 18) and TNE was a little low (TL14 B Dress 
AV 8), but I've been using the TNE AVs since they were closer (Greg 
stated in CSC that TL14 B Dress would be AV10--I'm using this as a 
comparison).  

The errata for the main book states that Mesh armor would have a 
flexible armor rating of 2--which is exactly what MT gives it.  But, 
as I said, TNE seems to be closer, yet TL 14 Combat Armor only has an 
AV 4.  That seems way too low, especially since TL9 Flex from the CSC 
has the same AV 4.

My request is this--could you:

	1) list all of the armors in the CT/MT/TNE books (sounds like a lot, 
	but they are mostly the same armors listed in each system) with the 
	appropriate T4 AV

	-OR-

	2) provide me with a fix to convert to T4 values--say based on one 
	of the other systems (like always take 8 points away from MT armor, 
	or divide it by 2, or whatever).

I, and I'm sure many others, would greatly appreciate this.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:41:33 +1300
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M0 and TNS

Does anybody know if now M0 has been released, IG have any
intention of producing some new TNS entries?

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
  "Multiples aren't crazy,
   Just very very complicated"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 97 15:31 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Misjumps

In-Reply-To: <330C1D77.644@alaska.net>

>   She then failed the difficult Determination check to remain cool in
> the face of this knowledge.  Since I was already playing her with
> paranoid tendancies she started to stick to herself, would not talk to
> her ship mates, started wearing Combat Armor on ship, started eating
> only sealed ration packs & water, told the Captain that she knew we were
> all going to die horribly, & refused a medical exam.  

Most PCs are like that to begin with...

> she knew we were all being driven insane.  At this point the ships
> doctor, whom the charecter did not know was Psionic, used his Telepathy
> to reasure her that everything was going to be alright.  Her response
> was  "So the voices in my head are reasuuring me that everything is
> perfectly normal and this is supposed to make me fell better !?!"  

:-)

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:27:39 GMT
From: starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf)
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:48:37 +0100, Carlos Alos-Ferrer=20
>        If the grid is thicker at the external grapple, this will
>pressumably make the field extend more far away from the hull where the
>external grapple is, covering the attached auxiliary craft. Yes. But, =
then,
>it would produce exactly the same effect whether the auxiliary craft is
>there or NOT (the only important thing is the volume inside the field), =
so
>there will be few reasons for external grapples. An alternative would be
>that, under the external grapple, the gird is not more thick, but more
>*dense*. For example, several simple grips superimposed, so that you can
>activate only the basic pattern for a jump without auxiliary craft, or =
the
>more dense one (two or more superimposed basic grids) for a jump *with*
>auxiliary craft.

Both of these options are then valid. And neither are, as I can see
them, superior to the other as it does not have any effect of the jump
distance or performance.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Myhre                 |"Never worry about theory as long as the=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf | machinery does what it's supposed to do."
Universal Internet          |
            Number: 127772  |                  -- R. A. Heinlein

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:14:46 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: RE: A long day's journey...

Thanks for posting the synopses from your adventure "A long day's
journey...", Roderick. You had some good ideas and dramatic encounters; if
you don't mind I may swipe a few ideas for my campaign. The ending was
rather anticlimactic, but "... and then everybody dies" is somewhat a
Traveller tradition ;-).

I may have handled some things differently, but monday-morning
quarterbacking is seldom productive. There is one point which I do want to
comment on, however. This is an issue I have argued with another GM about,
and I saw an example of it in your adventure. The following small quote
illustrates what I mean:

>... files, reinstall the anti-hijack program and activate it, setting it on
>lethal; it handily slaughtered all non-crew-members on board ...

I have seen similar scenarios in other Traveller campaigns. My question has
always been... HOW? The anti-hijack program is a piece of computer
software, how exactly is it supposed to kill people? Switching off life
support? This will take a while to have effect, is ineffective against
vac-suited characters, and will likely have rather severe collateral
damage. Crank the ship gravity past 30Gs? Ineffective against grav-belted
hijackers and again has bad secondary effects; assuming ship gravity is
even variable to that extent. Radiation or gravitic effects from ship
engines? Once again; hard to target, ineffective against prepared
attackers, and high probability of wasting innocent bystanders. Denaturing
their hemoglobin by subspace modulation of their RNA? This is Traveller,
not Star Trek. Poison gas? Antipersonnel mines? Robotic pillboxes or laser
beams sweeping the corridors? Look, the anti-hijack program is a bunch of
bits in a computer; it has no equipment or hardware outside that what is
already installed in the ship. I don't recall seeing equipment costs for
laser weapons or poison delivery systems in every inhabitable area of a
ship in the design sequences.

Look at how the anti-hijack program is defined in the rules. The rules say
the anti-hijack program "helps prevent hijacking". Not "counterattacks once
a hijacking attempt has started". It is a fairly small, cheap, and simple
program. A program which can analyse unique conflict situations, identify
and attack dozens of targets simultaneously under non-programmed mission
objectives would be a couple dozen breakthroughs in AI. It would be no more
difficult to have such a program also pilot starships, survey planets, and
conduct space combat; making players, other programs, and probably the
entire game unnecessary. A program with those capabilities would at least
be considerably larger and more expensive than the anti-hijack program in
the rules.

Even if such a program was technically possible, I don't think it would be
desirable. Filling the ship with lethal weaponry will provide a free
arsenal for hijackers. Attackers would simply remove this weaponry to use
against the crew or hack into it to take over the ship by remote control;
since control conduits for it would by necessity be all over the ship,
anyone anywhere would have access to it. If it's connected to the
communications functions this could be done from another ship. You might as
well install "press button to kill crew" boxes all over the ship (hmm,
maybe Virus isn't so implausible after all)! It is also extremely unlikely
that societies which restrict use of lethal weapons by individuals even for
self-defense would allow automated weaponry capable of mass slaughter to
operate without human intervention in public places merely to deter theft.

If this isn't bad enough, I feel rulings like 'the anti-hijack program
kills hijackers' harm playability. It becomes a shortcut to playing the
game through die-rolling. Why bother to actually design safeguards against
hijacking, plan an attack, or even play one out if we can just roll a task
against the anti-hijack program? Why? Because designing, planning, and
playing is the whole point of the game. Look at the description of the
'combat' with the anti-hijack program: "setting it on lethal; it handily
slaughtered all non-crew-members". I don't mean to pick on Roderick, I've
seen the same thing in other campaigns. Tell me, what was the anti-hijack
program's initiative roll? Its action status? How many turns did the combat
last? There's no way to tell, the entire action is so vague it becomes
trivial and undramatic. Imagine if starship combat was handled this way;
starships had a single Combat program and the entire battle is decided by
one task roll. This would make starship combat (one of the most dramatic
things in Traveller, IMHO) boring and insignificant, and it does the same
thing to hijackings. I haven't had a hijacking in my campaign yet, but when
I do it will be a real fight for control between the players and the
hijackers/crew, with the anti-hijack program providing a useful but not
dominant role; the character's actions will be the deciding factor.

After all this you may suppose I have pretty specific ideas about what the
anti-hijack program does. Well, I don't. I do have a few ideas; it will
have database, communications, and encryption features. It will not be able
to physically harm anyone and hacking it will not let you take over the
ship. I welcome other traveller's ideas and, if anyone wants them, I will
post my ideas.

Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #976
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 977



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

ANNOUNCEMENT: Website Moved
RE: A long day's journey...
First Survey Aliens
Traveller and BG
Re: Starship lifespan?
Re: Traveller Chronicle Web Page
First Survey - What is PBG Column?
First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Anti-hijack system musings...
Newbie (but CT)
Re: Alien Races
Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Re: Newbie (but CT)
Re: Skills
Tasks (Draft 022297)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:22:57 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Website Moved

	Just wanted to point out to everybody that I've moved my Website. My old
provider decided they didn't want anybody but high-paying business users to
be able to run scripts, and I'm rather attached to my Guestbook. My site
will be at:

	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj

sometime in the near future. Parts of it are there already, but I'm trying
to edit and reorganize it as I transfer it, and the remaining 6 Meg/391
files will take a while. Please bear with me.

	Also, please note that my new email address is goldendj@pcisys.net. I'll
keep the old address up for a while, but in a month or two it'll go away, too.
- -- Dave Golden        http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:25:00 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: RE: A long day's journey...

At 09:14 am 02/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I have seen similar scenarios in other Traveller campaigns. My question has
>always been... HOW? The anti-hijack program is a piece of computer
>software, how exactly is it supposed to kill people? Switching off life
>support? This will take a while to have effect, is ineffective against

	Well, here's some ideas I've put into my ships at different times:

   Security Systems (provided by Paranoid Protections, Inc.)


	* RF Detector/Direction Finder--any unusual / unauthorized radio signals
in / near protected area triggers alarm
	* Security Remote--override alarms, card locks, etc. at a distance
	* "Cheesecutter"--monomolecular wire mesh
	* Powered hatches can be overridden from bridge (or other authorized
terminal)
	* Sticky or fast-hardening foam
	* Inertial compensation can be turned off in sections
	* Claymore-type mines
	* Blinding flares
	* Corridors or compartments can be evacuated to space or flooded with
cryogenic fuel
	* Gas--tranquilizer, regurgitants, tear, nerve, blister, laughing,
psychotropic, etc. Or just flood compartment with 100% nitrogen =97 no=
 oxygen
	* Retinal scanners--scanning laser can be overridden, fired at higher
power (enough to blind temporarily or permanently)
	* Psionic locks, ID scanners, etc.
	* ID chip imbedded in bone for authorized crew members
	* bar code tattooed on body, etc. (in invisible UV ink) for authorized
crew members
	* Lasers or projectile weapons (tranq or HE) covering important doors, etc.
	* "Laser Gates" concealed in corridors--grid of low power beams until
interrupted, fires pulse, checks again
	* Video, sound, IR, ultrasonic, psionic detectors, neural activity
sensors, biosniffers
	* Electrify floor panels/ controls/ doors/ etc.
	* Infra/ultrasonic projectors
	* Cargo modules rigged to be jettisoned and destroyed, to produce sensor
cloud and/or convince pursuers ship has been destroyed
	* Weapons sensors concealed in critical hatches
	* Heat/Weight/Video (IR/V/UV)/Audio/Neural Activity sensors in critical
sections and approaches
	* Artificial Gravity can be varied by section (random oscillations ("Grav
Pong"), reversed, extremely high, grav shelf, etc.)

>Filling the ship with lethal weaponry will provide a free
>arsenal for hijackers. Attackers would simply remove this weaponry to use
>against the crew or hack into it to take over the ship by remote control;

	Always a threat with ANYTHING. Even if there's no "anti-hijack" program
running, for example, there's a chance (however small) somebody could hack
the life support system. And since your crew doesn't spend all their time
in Vacc Suits, that's a very significant threat.

>If this isn't bad enough, I feel rulings like 'the anti-hijack program
>kills hijackers' harm playability. It becomes a shortcut to playing the
>game through die-rolling. Why bother to actually design safeguards against
>hijacking, plan an attack, or even play one out if we can just roll a task
>against the anti-hijack program? Why? Because designing, planning, and
>playing is the whole point of the game.

	Agreed. Which is why my referee made me actually describe precautions
against hijacking (unfortunately, he wouldn't let me have everything on the
list!). And then when the time came to use them, we roleplayed that.

>After all this you may suppose I have pretty specific ideas about what the
>anti-hijack program does. Well, I don't. I do have a few ideas; it will
>have database, communications, and encryption features. It will not be able
>to physically harm anyone and hacking it will not let you take over the
>ship. I welcome other traveller's ideas and, if anyone wants them, I will
>post my ideas.

	Hmmm. Whether the "anti-hijack" program itself takes action or not, there
are things that can be done under computer control on ANY ship. For
example, one way of dealing with a completely out-of-control fire is
evacuate the compartment. OK, so now I hack in and do it without needing a
fire. Likewise, overriding locks or hatch safety interlocks (chop-crewey).

	Agreed, the computer won't take these actions on its own. Just like it
(theoretically) can't fire the weapons on its own. But the capability is
there, and it's only limited by the players' ingenuity and the referee's
flexibility.
- -- Dave Golden        http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:33:19 -0500
From: Alan Nuss <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: First Survey Aliens

Searching my hard disk and databases I've found these references to
some of the aliens mentioned in First Survey.

Brinn........Travellers Digest 12
Cafadans.....Trav Mail List document
Answerin.....Challenge 55, Trav Mail List document
Vilani.......Challenge 44,  TD 16, Traveller Chronicle 11, JTAS 17
Thaggeshi....Trav Mail List document
Jgd-Il-Jagd..JTAS 17
Githiaskio...JTAS 16
Ael Yael.....JTAS 15

Could not find any mention of the weird alien race 'alan'

AMNuss [ person not a race :) ]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:34:59 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Traveller and BG

At 07:05 PM 2/19/97 GMT, James Lindsay wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:13:20 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Battlestar was a good kids show.  B5 is not a kids show.
>> Battlestar had one major redeming feature.  Jane Seymour.
>> Once they killed her off...
>
>Hey!  What about the actress that played Athena?  In our little gaming
>group, we all agree that Starbuck must have been "one thruster short"
>to avoid her and chase after Casseopia (sp?).  Come on... Athena was
>hot, had a real job, and was the daughter of the fleet Admeral to
>boot!

...and at last we have a connection to Traveller -- Athena
has appeared in a Traveller product.

Much of the charcoal-sketch are in the CT Zhodani aliens
module used other art or photos as a model, then was altered
to "Zhodanify" it. One was taken from Ralph McQarrie's pre-
production work for The Empire Strikes Back. 

Another peice was taken from a BG publicity photo of 
Maren Jensen in her Athena togs. The sketch copies the
photo exactly, from boot buckles to collar insignia --
except for the Zhodani helmet she's wearing.

So don't sell Starbuck short -- he's just better at 
spotting those mindrippers than you are. Sleep tight!
;) ;)


John Bogan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:45:54 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Starship lifespan?

Andrew Boulton wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <v01540b02af2ede25c035@[130.217.138.133]>
> 
> > Just a quick question (and a change from the current threads), What is the
> > standard operational life span of a Space ship?
> 
> Properly maintained, ships, aircraft, vehicles, etc can remain in service for
> at least 50 years. Since they spend most of their time in a non-corosive
> environment and have few moving parts, a starship should last at least 2 or 3
> times that. Frequent atmospheric re-entry and/or skimming will reduce this.

Considering that in TNE many of the ships are over 100 years old, this
seems reasonable.

> 
> > Would there be any M0 ships
> > arround in MT times?
> 
> Unlikely outside of a museum.

I'm sure that M0 analogs of HMS _Victory_ or USS _Constitution_ exist,
but not on duty.

- --Rich
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:51:28 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Chronicle Web Page

At 06:37 AM 2/22/97 -0800, David wrote:

>You're right! I just tried to link to Sword of the Knight's main website
>at http://members.aol.com/swrdknght/sok.htm and received the message:
>
>"The requested URL was not found on this server."

I looked it up last night and it was there. It took it a long while to
download the cover, but it's a big picture, so that wasn't unexpected. It
wasn't as intensive as their old page, but I understand from Kevin they lost
that some time ago for some reason.

>Does anyone have any non-Web connections with them? Has anyone received
>Chronicle #12?

I got it this week. It's got some very good fiction in it this week, plus a
little more of Harold's TNE Earth setting, including the errata he posted on
the TML. He mentioned it the other day, if I recall. Good stuff. Anyone that
doesn't have a subscription should definitely pick it up.

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:12:06 -0800
From: "Phillip McGregor" <aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au>
Subject: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

Well, the header says it all. Just got FS and M0 on Friday, and they both
look good.

However, what is the "PBG" column in First Survey for. What are the three
numbers in it? There is no indication of what it is for (or I've missed it
if there is) in either FS or where the Core Sector Data is repeated in M0.
And I can't see it in the Basic Rules, either!

Help!

Phil
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Have Game Designer, Will Travel
Co-Designer, Space Opera; Designer, Rigger Black Book
(minor) Contributor to T4 Basic Rules, CSC, Milieu 0

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:12:06 -0800
From: "Phillip McGregor" <aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au>
Subject: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

Well, the header says it all. Just got FS and M0 on Friday, and they both
look good.

However, what is the "PBG" column in First Survey for. What are the three
numbers in it? There is no indication of what it is for (or I've missed it
if there is) in either FS or where the Core Sector Data is repeated in M0.
And I can't see it in the Basic Rules, either!

Help!

Phil
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Have Game Designer, Will Travel
Co-Designer, Space Opera; Designer, Rigger Black Book
(minor) Contributor to T4 Basic Rules, CSC, Milieu 0

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:26:13 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Anti-hijack system musings...

Richard Hough wrote:

>
>Thanks for posting the synopses from your adventure "A long day's
>journey...", Roderick. You had some good ideas and dramatic encounters; if
>you don't mind I may swipe a few ideas for my campaign.


        Thanks, and feel free... you're more than welcome.


>The ending was
>rather anticlimactic, but "... and then everybody dies" is somewhat a
>Traveller tradition ;-).


        Yeah... I had in mind a "Larry Niven script directed by James
Cameron" sort of feel in mind.  Apparently my players were going for a
"Hunter S. Thompson directed by Quentin Tarentino" sort of feel :)


>
>I may have handled some things differently, but monday-morning
>quarterbacking is seldom productive. There is one point which I do want to
>comment on, however. This is an issue I have argued with another GM about,
>and I saw an example of it in your adventure. The following small quote
>illustrates what I mean:
>
>>... files, reinstall the anti-hijack program and activate it, setting it on
>>lethal; it handily slaughtered all non-crew-members on board ...
>
>I have seen similar scenarios in other Traveller campaigns. My question has
>always been... HOW? The anti-hijack program is a piece of computer
>software, how exactly is it supposed to kill people? Switching off life
[snippage]


        Well, my take is a little "Disco Ball From Hell", packing agauss
weapon and gas dispensers, drops out of the ceiling.  Sensors identify crew
members vs. non-crewmembers, scan Imperial ID's, determine level of hostile
activity (voice levels, body temperature, weapons holstered, aimed, or
firing, etc), run it through the civil liability avoidance algorithms, and
then decide whether to tell everyone to behave, gas everybody, or start
shooting non-crewmembers...


>
>Look at how the anti-hijack program is defined in the rules. The rules say
>the anti-hijack program "helps prevent hijacking". Not "counterattacks once
>a hijacking attempt has started". It is a fairly small, cheap, and simple
>program. A program which can analyse unique conflict situations, identify
>and attack dozens of targets simultaneously under non-programmed mission
>objectives would be a couple dozen breakthroughs in AI.

[snip]

        Well, you see, this is a Famille Spofulam Defense Subsystems
antihijack system, you see...  The Legal Department had to convince
Marketing to convince Design to use gauss instead of napalm and frag
grenades :).

        And as far as technical feasibility, well, according to SOM, they
can identify crewmembers; at TL-12, body heat and voice analysis shouldn't
be a problem, let alone detecting weapons being present or being fired, or
querying Imperial IDs...

>
>Even if such a program was technically possible, I don't think it would be
>desirable. Filling the ship with lethal weaponry will provide a free
>arsenal for hijackers. Attackers would simply remove this weaponry to use
>against the crew or hack into it to take over the ship by remote control;
>since control conduits for it would by necessity be all over the ship,
>anyone anywhere would have access to it. [snippage]


        Well, if you recall, back in the first episode, I had hijackers do
precisely this; of course, they were working for the same company and still
had to call Covert Ops to call Motor Pool and get the owner's passcodes,
but yeah, this is feasible, although not easy and I imagine that there
would be some pretty heavy security around it...


>It is also extremely unlikely
>that societies which restrict use of lethal weapons by individuals even for
>self-defense would allow automated weaponry capable of mass slaughter to
>operate without human intervention in public places merely to deter theft.
>


        Ah, but this is actually on board a private, high-security vessel;
on the shuttle up to the Sylean high port I would agree 100%, but given the
Imperium's generally lax attitude towards PCs toting weapons of mass
destruction about I see no problem with a corporate courier (or a private
yacht) having a nastier than usual system...


>If this isn't bad enough, I feel rulings like 'the anti-hijack program
>kills hijackers' harm playability. It becomes a shortcut to playing the
>game through die-rolling. Why bother to actually design safeguards against
>hijacking, plan an attack, or even play one out if we can just roll a task
>against the anti-hijack program? Why? Because designing, planning, and
>playing is the whole point of the game. Look at the description of the
>'combat' with the anti-hijack program: "setting it on lethal; it handily
>slaughtered all non-crew-members". I don't mean to pick on Roderick, I've
[snip]
> I haven't had a hijacking in my campaign yet, but when
>I do it will be a real fight for control between the players and the
>hijackers/crew, with the anti-hijack program providing a useful but not
>dominant role; the character's actions will be the deciding factor.


        Well, in this case, a single, rather psychopathic individual up on
the bridge pinned down everyone else using the artificial gravity and then
(with a very high int and 3 in Computer) bypassed the anti-civil liability
algorithms...  Had he not pulled the dodge with the gravity, I would have
allowed return fire and so forth...

        As Ross said to me earlier, it never pays to have PCs that are
wierder than the monsters.  In this case, it seems, 6' mutant intelligent
killer lab rats from hell didn't quite make the grade :).


>
>After all this you may suppose I have pretty specific ideas about what the
>anti-hijack program does. Well, I don't. I do have a few ideas; it will
>have database, communications, and encryption features. It will not be able
>to physically harm anyone and hacking it will not let you take over the
>ship. I welcome other traveller's ideas and, if anyone wants them, I will
>post my ideas.

        I dunno...  I kinda like the idea of vicious nasty killer devices
lurking in the chandeliers...  after this, I'm sure that my players will be
awfully, er, _aware_ of them >:) <evil laughter>.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:00:00 +0200
From: n.violet@krypta.aball.de (Norman Violet)
Subject: Newbie (but CT)

Hello Traveller's !

(Please forgive my humble ability to speak/write galanglic, but I come from  
the outer rims of the galaxis ... <g>)

I own these old black books for years now, but I never actually played (or  
mastered) a campaign (although I'm not a inexperienced roleplaying gamer).
I even read this mailing list (and xboat which doesn't seems to exist today)  
from 1994 to early 1996.

But now it is the first time I can write to this list and it's also the  
first time I'm actually going to play traveller - the classic one. And there  
are some questions of course, some more general, some more detailed.

1. Because of some inconsistencies in the three black books (that's the main  
reason for my questions) I wonder if it wouldn't be better to buy a newer  
edition (MT oder TNE or even T4). What is the general opinion to that?

2. As far as I know there are classic fans out there, still playing CT  
because ... what? Do you people have added special rules from MT, TNE, TN4  
to CT like type of ship sensors, gaining experience and so on?


3. In CT exist two rules for combat, spaceship combat and for spaceship  
building (book one and book two). I prefer the newer ones, but it's partly  
depending from the situation which one you has to use, isn't it? (the newer  
space combat rule applies only when many ships are involved because the  
individual abilities like piloting, gunnery, tactic are unimportant in these  
rules). But what about these two combat rules? Practical all rules depends  
on a kind of hit points meaning the sum of strength, agility and endurance  
(robot rules from the 3rd book, animal rules from the 1st book), but the  
combat rules from the 2nd book use a 2d6 table to determine the result of a  
hit (no effect to death). I do like this one, but how do you switch from one  
rule to the other?

That's not all, but I want to know first if my mail will be send correctly -  
and I'll collect my questions now.



 
Bye,
Norman
 
(Mfg, man liest sich wieder, Gruss an die/den Freundin/Freund...)
 
Random-Cookie:
Happiness is a hard disk.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:20:54 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Races

Some more not mentioned yet, all from CT sources:

	Eibokin (Traveller Adventure)
		Large, protocol driven, matriarchal society of
		multi-legged critters.
		No CGen

	Dandies (Traveller Adventure)
		Silvery puffballs with no visible sensory organs (tho they
		do posess sensory organs), with five legs, which can be used
		as hands. From Junidy/Spinward Marches, IIRC.
		No CGen

	Grugach'kar [sp?] (JTAS)
		Upright, bipedal, each hand has 10 digits; K'Kree subject race.
		Includes modifications to K'Kree CGen

And, of cource, Cymbaline Chips, from "Signal GK"









William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:45:35 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

At 10:12 am 02/23/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Well, the header says it all. Just got FS and M0 on Friday, and they both
>look good.
>
>However, what is the "PBG" column in First Survey for. What are the three

Total number of "P"lanets "B"elts and "G"as giants in the system
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:53:23 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie (but CT)

> 1. Because of some inconsistencies in the three black books (that's the main  
> reason for my questions) I wonder if it wouldn't be better to buy a newer  
> edition (MT oder TNE or even T4). What is the general opinion to that?

I'm using T4--but my campaign is set in the CT 1100's era.  And, I 
still use a lot of CT items--rules and background.  

T4 is very compatible with CT.  In fact, T4 is just a modernization 
of CT, the same way MT was a modernization of the original game.  
TNE, of course, was almost an entirely new system.

I find it easier to use T4 as my core rules set, but I don't hesitate 
to use CT or MT when I have a particular topic not yet covered in T4 
rules.  

Example--there is no Shotgun group hits rule in the T4 basic rules, 
so I'm using the one from CT.  

Keep in mind that T4 is in its infancy.  The main book is meant to be 
a basic book.  Other supplements will add more detail to the rules 
system as the game grows just like Book 4 (and others) did to the 
first three books of CT.

As for my Shotgun rule, Greg Porter told me that a Shotgun rule would 
be covered in the Emperor's Arsenal due out in a month or so.

So, there it is.  The game grows.

My suggestion?  Change the title of your post to:

		Newbie (but T4)

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:45:51 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Skills

>Hmm.  3:1 in favor of stats?  I can't agree with that.  Natural
>ability is important, but experience and trainging are more important
>to anything you do.

no, in favor of skills. my word choice was poor. Was really tired.

>Put a skater with great natural ability against a skater who has
>trained all her life, but only has so-so natural ability, and my
>money will always be on the one who is trained.
>
>Kenneth.
>>
That should be 3 attribute=1skilllevel; where you chose 2=1, TNE and T4
official use 1=1, and MT uses 5att=1sk. We're in agreement that training is
more valuable than raw talent; just in disagreement about HOW MUCH moreso.



William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:06:37 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Tasks (Draft 022297)

Tasks
	The activities which characters in Traveller adventures undertake are called
tasks. The use of tasks allows specific activities to be resolved
consistently based on defined levels of difficulty and through the use of
appropriate skills, characteristics, and other modifiers. Players can analyze
tasks and decide on the appropriate character to undertake each, based on who
is best suited to the task.

 ROLLING TASKS
	When a task becomes necessary, the referee tells the group the task, its
required skill and characteristic, and the difficulty level. The players in
the group discuss among themselves who will attempt the task. The player
running the character selected identifies the skill and characteristic levels
and determines the target number.  He or she then personally rolls the dice
and compares it with the target number. Low rolls are best. If the die roll
result is equal to or less than the target number, the task is successful.
	For example, Eneri Dinsha (ABC789 Mechanic-3) faces the following task:

	To repair a groundcar engine (2 hours).
	(Edu + Mechanic) + Tools (required) < Difficult (3D)

	The target number for the task is (8 + 3 = ) 11, which Eneri must roll or
less on 3D. He rolls 6, which means he succeeds in accomplishing the task.

EXPRESSING TASKS
	Tasks can be expressed in a variety of ways, depending on the important
elements of the specific situation. The basic expression consists of a task
phrase, a task statement, and any task comments. A typical task should be
stated as with these three elements on three succeeding lines.
Task Phrase:
	To accomplish an important activity (time).

Task Statement:
	(characteristic + skill) +/- modifiers < difficulty (nD)

Task Comments:
	appropriate comments about the task.

	The Task Phrase: The Task Phrase states the specific purpose of the task. It
is stated as an infinitive verb phrase (i.e. "To" followed by a verb and any
modifying words). It effectively states what the character wants to do.
	If a task phrase requires more than one line, it is probably too complex and
should be broken into two or more separate tasks.
	The Task Phrase may contain (in parentheses) the time the task generally
takes to accomplish. This information is optional, and may often be ignored.
	The Task Statement: The Task Statement shows the specific information which
is required to resolve the task. Task resolution is based on a skill and its
associated characteristic, applicable modifiers, and a difficulty level.
The sum of the characteristic and skill and all applicable modifiers to the
left of the < is the target number. The player must roll equal to or less
than the target number to succeed at the task.
	The Task Comments: The Task Comments include any supplementary information
about the task. It states if the task is Cooperative, Uncertain, or Opposed.
It includes any modifiers which did not fit in the Task Statement. It
includes any additional information which may help in understanding the
activity and its resolution.
	Task Difficulties: The Task Difficulty Table shows the levels of difficulty
possible and the associated required die rolls. 

DEFAULT SKILLS
	Sometimes characters need to accomplish tasks for which they do not have the
required skill. Any character may attempt a task which specifies a Default
Skill, even if the character himself does not have that skill.
	If using a Default Skill, the skill level used is 0 (zero) and the
associated characteristic is halved (round fractions up).
	For example, Eneri Dinsha (ABC789 Mechanic-3), while road testing the
groundcar he has repaired, hits a patch of slippery road. 

	To avoid an accident
	(Dex + Ground Craft) < Average (3D)

	Eneri has no specific skill in Ground Craft, but it is a Default Skill. He
can attempt the task with Dex B halved to 6 + 0). He must roll 6 or less on
2D.
	On the other hand, Eneri finds a bomb planted in the ground car. Demolitions
is not a Default Skill; Eneri cannot even attempt to defuse it.

SPECIAL TYPES OF TASKS
	Some tasks reflect special situations which require non-standard methods of
resolution. These include Cooperative, Opposed, and Uncertain tasks, and
Actions.
	Cooperative Tasks. More than one character may actively cooperate in
performing a single Cooperative task. Each individual cooperating contributes
his (or her) skill level, which one character contributes his (or her)
characteristic. 
	The Task Comment will say Cooperative (N Skill) indicating how many
characters may participate (N equals the numbers of characters) and that the
skill from each will be counted. A Task Comment may instead say Cooperative
(N Characteristic) indicating how many characters may participate (N equals
the numbers of characters) and that the characteristic from each will be
counted. If the task is successful, all participants succeed; if it fails,
all participants fail.

	To camouflage a vehicle from searching police.
	(Int + Camouflage) < Difficult (3D)
	Cooperative (3 Camouflage).

	Up to three participants may add their skill levels together in the
resolution of this task. The character with the highest Int would contribute
that characteristic.

	To lift a large log off a vehicle
	(Str) < Difficult (3D)
	Cooperative (5 Str)

	This task requires strength alone (no skill). Up to 5 characters can
participate.
	Opposed Tasks. Characters in direct opposition may jointly participate in an
Opposed task, with the result determining who succeeds (and who fails). Each
participant rolls to resolve the task, with the highest result succeeding. 
	The Task Comment will say Opposed (N) indicating how many characters may
participate (N equals the numbers of characters). The highest result is
successful, provided that result is a success result; all other participants
fail (regardless of the quality of their results).

	To win a brawl.
	(Str + Brawling) < Difficult (3D)
	Opposed (4)

	Uncertain Tasks. Characters undertaking tasks for which the results are not
immediately clear may participate in an Uncertain task. The referee rolls
some of the dice secretly and determines whether the task is successful. The
result is only revealed when required by events. 
	The Task Comment will say Uncertain (ND), when N is the number of dice the
referee rolls. The remaining dice are rolled by the player. There may be
instances where the die roll result is high enough for the player to
understand that the task was successful, or is low enough to understand that
the task was a failure. In some instances, however, the results will remain
uncertain.

	To bluff past a guard into a nuclear power plant.
	(Int + Fast Talk) +1 Fake ID < Difficult (3D)
	Uncertain (1D)

	The player would roll 2D and the referee would secretly roll 2D. Assuming
Int 7 and Fast Talk-3 and he has the Fake ID, the required roll must be 11 or
less on 3D. If the player rolls 3, he knows he must have succeeded (since
even if the hidden die roll is 6, the task would succeed); if the player
rolls 10, he knows he must have failed (since even if the hidden die roll is
only 1, the task would fail). But if he rolls between 6 and 9, he cannot know
if he succeeded or failed until the referee indicates the results of the
third die.
	Actions. Activities which do not depend on character skills or
characteristics are called Actions instead of Tasks. An action is expressed
like a task, but the Task Statement is more free form. It indicates the
information which will be compared against the difficulty level.
	An action is identified by the word Action in the Task Comment.

	To determine initiative in space combat
	(number of ships + sensor rating) < Difficult (3D)
	Action. Opposed (2)

This action is used in space combat.

SPECTACULAR RESULTS
	The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
negative sense.
	Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
roll is the minimum possible roll (that is, 2 on 2D, 3 on 3D, 4 on 4D, etc),
the result is spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not
only succeeds, it also stumbles on the master system password.
	Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
roll is the maximum possible roll (that is, 12 on 2D, 18 on 3D, 24 on 4D,
etc), the result is a spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not
only fails, it also sets off security alarms.

CREATING TASKS.
	The referee in Traveller is often called upon to create tasks as situations
arise. The process for creating tasks is simple and straightforward.
	1. Express the Task Phrase. State specifically and clearly the action that
the players want to perform. The phrase should be no more than one line, and
should encompass one specific action.
	If time is important, the time required to attempt the task should be
stated. This may be no time at all, or may be irrelevant (in which case, time
is ignored), or it may range from 10 minutes to several hours. Typically, one
task will take no more than a day.
	2. Express the Task Statement. Determine the skill required to perform the
task, and state the characteristic associated with that skill in this form:
(characteristic + skill).
	Determine any modifiers which may apply to the task (such as darkness,
weather, computer model). Positive modifiers increase the chances of success;
negative numbers decrease the chance of success. It is possible for both
positive and negative modifiers to be stated. If a significant number of
modifiers are to be stated, shift them to the Task Comments.
	Determine the difficulty level of the task. Using the Task Difficulty Table,
state the difficulty level of the task. Be sure to include the number of dice
to be thrown in parentheses.
Any additional information about the task should be placed in the comments.
State if the task is Cooperative, Opposed, or Uncertain. Include any
additional modifiers which did not fit in the Task Statement.
	3. Express The Task Comments. Indicate if the task is Cooperative, Opposed,
or Uncertain. Indicate if the task is an Action. Indicate any additional
modifiers which did not fit on the Task Statement line.

Task Difficulties
Difficulty Level	Dice Code	Typical Success
Easy	auto		100%
Average	2D		
Difficult	3D		
Formidable	4D		
Staggering	5D		
Impossible	6D		
	If an Easy task is attempted using a default skill, the Dice Code is 1D.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #977
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 23 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 978



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Anti-Hijack Programs (Was "Re: A long day's journey...")
Alternative jump methods?
Skills:Stats
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Fwd: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek
[OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Skills:Stats
Re: Skills:Stats
CSC Musings
Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Traveller Aliens [was Questions in FS/M:0]
Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Re: Alternative jump methods?
Re: Alternative jump methods?
[TML] A couple of rules questions
Re: Traveller Vehicles
Re: Crew requirements - a question
Vehicle (and other) Cards
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #977

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:05:38 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

P is the population multiplier. It times 10 to the Pop exponent is the actual
population. ie. P x 10^Pop

B is the number of planetoid belts in the system. If the mainworld is size 0,
it is an Asteroid belt and in addition to any Planetoid Belts.

G is the number of Gas Giants in the system.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:12:55 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Anti-Hijack Programs (Was "Re: A long day's journey...")

Richard Hough wrote:
<snippage of anti-hijack ideas>
> After all this you may suppose I have pretty specific ideas about what the
> anti-hijack program does. Well, I don't. I do have a few ideas; it will
> have database, communications, and encryption features. It will not be able
> to physically harm anyone and hacking it will not let you take over the
> ship. I welcome other traveller's ideas and, if anyone wants them, I will
> post my ideas.

I've based the sophistication of the anti-hijack program on the TL and
any equipment tied into it. At TL10, for instance, the program could
monitor the status of iris valves (open, closed, locked) and allow
remote control from the bridge. At TL15, it would be much more
effective, actually being able to take limited action based on pre-
established rules. For instance, it could use metabolic scanners, say,
to differentiate between crew and passengers and automatically secure
areas against passengers while reporting any tampering, illegal
substances passing within range (like certain explosives), etc.

If a PC crew wants to spend the time and CrImps putting together their
own shipboard system, I have them write up all the rules of their system
and then *I* run it according to their rules. So far, a really complex
system with onboard auto-turret weaponry has never been cost effective
and has been sometimes down right dangerous to the crew.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:20:58 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Alternative jump methods?

Okay, now maybe this is _really_ in violation of the canon (and now the
PsiCorps will be after me for this -- oops wrong reality :) ), but have any
of you ever introduced alternative methods for interstellar travel in your
campaigns?  I'm thinking of things like Alderson points (Niven/Pournelle),
pulsar whips (The Forever War?), hyperspace structures (Babylon 5),
wormholes (DS9), simple warp space (ST:TNG), or even the all-powerful
LucasDrive that gets you from Hoth to Dagobah in the space of a few lines
of dialog. :)

Anyway, whether used by newly discovered civilizations, Ancients relics,
whatever, I wonder how/if others have used such things in their campaigns.

Mike Sellers

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:43:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Skills:Stats

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> wrote:

>That should be 3 attribute=1skilllevel; where you chose 2=1, TNE and T4
>official use 1=1, and MT uses 5att=1sk. We're in agreement that training is
>more valuable than raw talent; just in disagreement about HOW MUCH moreso.

   Actually, you're wrong about that ratio.  Since KBv1.1 both halfs 
attributes AND doubles skills, the ratio is 4:1; even higher than your
suggested 3:1.  That's one of the reasons I like this system so well, 'cause 
it allows different values of stats to have more effect while still remaining
close to the MT stat:skill ratios.  I think this is good for two reasons: 
1) it maintains a greater "consistency of feel" between editions; and 2) it 
helps to alleviate the problem that stat increases are worth so much more than 
skill increases during char-gen.

Trent Smith

P.S.  For anyone who finds it odd that I so adamantly defend Kenneth's task
system, it's not because he's paying me or anything, but because I
independently came up with a fix that was almost exactly the same (except for 
a small difference in number of dice, where he convinced me his way was 
better).

P.P.S.  I seem to recall that KBv1.1 was suggested to IG a few months back as
a possible "optional rule" only to be dismissed with a "we like our current
task system fine," but since the company's under different (and much more
reasonable) management now, perhaps it would be worthwhile to re-suggest it?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:09:11 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
 >  ROLLING TASKS
> The player running the character selected identifies the skill and characteristic levels
> and determines the target number.  He then personally rolls the dice
> and compares it with the target number. Low rolls are best. If the die roll
> result is equal to or less than the target number, the task is successful.

The problem with this is it still makes attributes more important than skills. You get the 
AD&D syndrome wherein having straight 18's is the definition of a good character, rather 
than having a particular skill. Too often someopne has lousy stats but managed to get a high 
skill level (5-6 say) but has a stat of 5-6. Along come Mr."I've got 10+ in all attributes" and 
a major whack of skills of 1-2. One of the things that made CT so great was the fact that 
skills were the end all and be all of the game. Now, it seems that all that matters is high 
attributes. IMO, I would like both attributes and skills to matter, with the benefit of the 
doubt going to skills

> SPECTACULAR RESULTS
>         The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
> negative sense.
>         Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
> roll is the minimum possible roll (that is, 2 on 2D, 3 on 3D, 4 on 4D, etc),
> the result is spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not
> only succeeds, it also stumbles on the master system password.
>         Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
> roll is the maximum possible roll (that is, 12 on 2D, 18 on 3D, 24 on 4D,
> etc), the result is a spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not
> only fails, it also sets off security alarms.

The first part is fine IMO. You should have less of a chance to spectacularly succeed on 
really difficult rolls, but the second part makes a bone headed maneuver less likely the more 
dangerous a task you take. Thus your chance of a right royal screw up is 3.6% on an 
average task, 0.46% on difficult, 0.08% on formidable..well, you get the picture (who 
wants to change the light bulb and who wants to manually adjust the reactor core with this 
rusty knife; everyone volunteers for the latter)

> Average 2D
> Difficult       3D
> Formidable      4D
> Staggering      5D
> Impossible      6D
>If an Easy task is attempted using a default skill, the Dice Code is 1D.

Good idea to kill the 0.5D6

------------------------------

Date: 22 Feb 97 22:01:26 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Fwd: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek

Mail*Link=A8 SMTP               Top Ten StarWars vs Trek


>	Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Wars Characters
>	Would Kick Butt in the Star Trek Universe
>
>10) In the Star Wars universe, weapons rarely, if ever, are set on
>    "stun".
>
>9)  The Enterprise needs a huge engine room with an anti-matter unit
>    and a crew of twenty just to go into warp-- the Millenium Falcon
>    does the same thing with R2-D2 and a Wookie.
>
>8)  After resisting the Imperial torture droid and Darth Vader,
>    Princess Leia still looked fresh and desirable-- after pithy
>    Cardassian starvation torture, Picard looked like hell.
>
>7)  Jabba the Hutt would eat Harry Mudd for trying to cut in on his
>    action.
>
>6)  Luke Skywalker is not obsessed with sleeping with every alien he
>    encounters.
>
>5)  One word: lightsabers.
>
>4)  The Federation would have to attempt to liberate any ship named
>    Slave I.
>
>3)  The Death Star doesn't care if a world is class "M" or not.
>
>2)  Darth Vader could choke the entire Borg empire with one glance.
>
>1)  Picard pilots the Enterprise through an asteroid belt at
>    one-quarter impulse power.  Han Solo floors it.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:29:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers

Hi,

I know this isn't specifically Traveller, but thought it would be of
sufficient ineterest to the list.

I went to see Empire Strikes Back on friday night (great, loved it!) and on
the previews was a preivew for, Starship Troopers (presumably based on
Heinlein's book).

Anyhow, the scene shown was of marine-like troops on some kind of desertish
world's fortress fighting these pretty cool looking computer generated
aliens, which appeared to look like insects of some sort (yellow and black
colour I think).

That's all the preview showed, but I thought it looked pretty cool.

Not sure of how it releates to the novel, as, though I have it, I haven't
gottne around to reading it as yet.

Thanks,

__________________________________________________________Peter J. Miller
                "Mars waits for us..." - Ben Bova, 'Mars'
         Traveller, RPGs, and the Home of the Imperium Games FAQ
                  http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/traveller
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
www.irevolution.com - Graphics, Web Design, and the LOWEST prices around!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:44:03 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

In a message dated 97-02-22 23:35:50 EST, you write:

> 
>  The first part is fine IMO. You should have less of a chance to 
> spectacularly succeed on 
>  really difficult rolls, but the second part makes a bone headed maneuver 
> less likely the more 
>  dangerous a task you take. Thus your chance of a right royal screw up is
3.6%
>  on an 
>  average task, 0.46% on difficult, 0.08% on formidable..well, you get the 
> picture (who 
>  wants to change the light bulb and who wants to manually adjust the
reactor 
> core with this 
>  rusty knife; everyone volunteers for the latter)

Right. I made the calculations myself just for fun.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:43:08 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

In a message dated 97-02-22 23:35:50 EST, you write:

> Good idea to kill the 0.5D6
>  
Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:58:43 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

> Task Difficulties
> Difficulty Level	Dice Code	Typical Success
> Easy	auto		100%
> Average	2D		
> Difficult	3D		
> Formidable	4D		
> Staggering	5D		
> Impossible	6D		
> 	If an Easy task is attempted using a default skill, the Dice Code is 1D.

Marc,

Where are the 1/2 die?  What happened to the old difficulty system as 
printed in T4?

Kenneth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:58:44 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

> Task Difficulties
> Difficulty Level	Dice Code	Typical Success
> Easy	auto		100%
> Average	2D		
> Difficult	3D		
> Formidable	4D		
> Staggering	5D		
> Impossible	6D		
> 	If an Easy task is attempted using a default skill, the Dice Code is 1D.

Boy, I've been down this road a few time in the last four months or 
so.

If you do some statistical analysis on this difficutly system, you 
will find that it works well for high target numbers, but it just 
kills the lower and mid-range target numbers.  

Since most of a character's skills are in the 1-3 range, characters 
will fail much more often than succeed.  The curve on the 
1D-2D-3D-4D-5D-6D system is just too steep.

You should consider using my task system fix to the T4 basic system.  
It will do two things.  It will make skill levels and attributes 
equally important to success at the task throw (because just adding 
skill and attribute weighs the calculation too far in the direction 
of the attributes).  And it will make it harder to achieve success at 
the higher difficutly categories (Staggering and Impossible).

This fix literally fixes all the woes of the T4 task system as 
written in the main book.

There are just two steps that you have to do to implement my task 
system fix, KBv1.1, and that is:

	1)  Calculate target numbers using this method--

		(Skill x 2) + (Attribute / 2)			round up

	2) Change the difficulty dice code for Staggering and Impossible 
	tasks to--

		Staggering 4D
		Impossible 5D

Many here on the TML have adopted this system.  It's easy and it 
works.  I've play tested it myself and continue to use it.  I'd 
like to see it as an Official Optional Rule in one of the upcoming 
supplements.  

I wrote a long post the day before yesterday citing the problems this 
system fixes, and why I went to it.  I even listed the probabilites 
of each target number possible with this system.  If you didn't catch 
that, then e-mail me.  I'll be glad to re-post it or send it to you.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:03:01 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

> In a message dated 97-02-22 23:35:50 EST, you write:
> 
> > Good idea to kill the 0.5D6
> >  
> Thanks.

It is a good idea to kill the half die, but this is harder to do than 
you might expect.  

I tried to get rid of the half die when I was designing my T4 fix, 
KBv1.1.  In doing so, I realized why the original designers of the 
system put them in--they flatten out the curve.

You straight 1-6 system, although it sounds good, is not practical 
unless we find a way to boost the target numbers on the low end.

Kenneth.
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:12:51 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Skills:Stats

> P.S.  For anyone who finds it odd that I so adamantly defend Kenneth's task
> system, it's not because he's paying me or anything, but because I
> independently came up with a fix that was almost exactly the same (except for 
> a small difference in number of dice, where he convinced me his way was 
> better).

Hey, Trent, where do I send the chec...oh heck!  I thought this was 
your private e-mail!

Thanks for the words.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:12:52 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Skills:Stats

> P.P.S.  I seem to recall that KBv1.1 was suggested to IG a few months back as
> a possible "optional rule" only to be dismissed with a "we like our current
> task system fine," but since the company's under different (and much more
> reasonable) management now, perhaps it would be worthwhile to re-suggest it?

Actually, I've never sent it, but I think that Joe Walsh said 
something to them and got the response to which you referr.  

And, I'm sure that many people from IG have seen it on the TML since 
this is the second time it has popped up for discussion in four 
months.

Since Marc is looking at the task system (which I deduce from his 
task post), maybe he'll consider making KBv1.1 an Offical Optional 
Rule and print it in one of the upcoming supplements.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:33:38 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: CSC Musings

Ya, know, you really don't really know the value of a product until 
you actually use it for play.

A new product comes out for T4, and we all scramble to the stores to 
get it.  Then we flip through it once or twice before hitting the key 
board to either complain about how dissappointed we are or bask in 
the glory of a product that makes us remember why we are so devoted 
to this game in the first place.

When CSC first hit the shelves, I felt the book was mediocre but a 
vast improvement over Starships.  All in all, I was happy with it, 
but I still wanted more from IG.

But now I've got to admit, the more I use CSC, the more I like it.  I 
actually like the product more now than when I first purchased it.

There is so much neat stuff hidden in the pages that it was hard to 
see at first.  There's lots of little rules, which I like, covering 
the book.

And I like how it was written.  It is not the usual equipment guide 
that we're used to seeing for Traveller.  It is not just a dry plain 
Jane listing of equipment like we've seen in the Imperial 
encyclopedia, the TNE equipment book, and the equipment listings 
in the various CT products.  

The CSC has CHARACTER!  You get the feeling that you are shopping a 
real list of equipment!

For example, check out the entry for Flex-9.  In old Traveller style, 
you would have been told what the armor was made of and given some 
game-mechanic  information.  Although the entry for Flex gives this 
too, it also tells you that the full body version of the  armor was 
originally designed for disposal of explosive or fragmentation 
weapons.

Greg Porter is not just telling us what the stuff is, he's telling us 
WHY.

That is just great in my book.  Greg's really conveying a "feel" for 
the stuff--and I love his little comments throughout like the few 
paragraphs he wrote on personal armor.  Lots of neat insight here.

As far as I'm concerned, this is what Traveller needed.  I'm getting 
excited about this product, and I can't wait to see his Emperor's 
Arsenal.  Judging by the CSC, we're in for a treat.

Good things are happening.

Kenneth.

PS  To Greg--thanks for giving me something a product that allowed me 
to bask instead of bitch.  You did good work.  Keep it up--we're 
counting on you.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 08:30:45 -0500
From: Alan Nuss <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

From MegaTraveller

P Population Multipler
B number of asteroid/planetoid belts
B number of Gas Giants

ex.  If a worlds USP is A888657-9 and PBB is 314 then there are between
3 million and 4 million people on the planet, 1 asteroid belt, and 4 gas
giants.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:30:12 +1100 (EST)
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Traveller Aliens [was Questions in FS/M:0]

Dear Folks -

For many of the aliens, try the Library Data on my pages. There is a
separate list of aliens if you don't want to wade through the entire Library
Data alphabetically.
________________________________________________________________________
Hyphen (David Jaques-Watson)                         davidjw@pcug.org.au
http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:42:39 +1100 (EST)
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

Dear Folks -

I'll be willing to bet - without even having seen the book! - that it stands
for "Population multiplier, number of Belts in system, number of Gas giants
in system.
________________________________________________________________________
Hyphen (David Jaques-Watson)                         davidjw@pcug.org.au
http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 08:18:51 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative jump methods?

Mike Sellers wrote:
> 
> Okay, now maybe this is _really_ in violation of the canon (and now the
> PsiCorps will be after me for this -- oops wrong reality :) ), but have any
> of you ever introduced alternative methods for interstellar travel in your
> campaigns?  I'm thinking of things like Alderson points (Niven/Pournelle),
> pulsar whips (The Forever War?), hyperspace structures (Babylon 5),
> wormholes (DS9), simple warp space (ST:TNG), or even the all-powerful
> LucasDrive that gets you from Hoth to Dagobah in the space of a few lines
> of dialog. :)
> 
> Anyway, whether used by newly discovered civilizations, Ancients relics,
> whatever, I wonder how/if others have used such things in their campaigns.

Only once (well, twice). The PCs had been paid to use their ship as
a sensor platform for some scientists who wanted to perform some
experiments with the event horizon of a traveling black hole
discovered in Reft Sector. The navigator/backup pilot got a little
careless (blew *three* rolls badly) while showing off for the one
scientist who just happened to be stunningly beautiful (ah, the
hormones of youth) and got the ship grazed by some of the gravity
pulses off the BH, thereby tumbling the ship toward it. After
realizing a slingshot maneuver to break free would require more fuel
than they had, the captain gave the order for an emergency jump.

They ended up coming out of Jumpspace travelling away from another
blackhole in the Solomani sphere where they had some fun with SolSec
in the adventure "Signal GK".

The second time this kind of trip happened was when they tried to get
back to the Reft Sector the same way (they had alot of balls if not much
brains). This time the navigator wanted to see my task rolls because he 
felt I had fudged them the first time, which I had...in his favor. Since
he had been whining ever since the first trip, I made the rolls in
front of him using his dice.

He died, the girl died, *everybody* died.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 07:58:09 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative jump methods?

At 06:20 pm 02/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Okay, now maybe this is _really_ in violation of the canon (and now the
>PsiCorps will be after me for this -- oops wrong reality :) ), but have any
>of you ever introduced alternative methods for interstellar travel in your
>campaigns?  I'm thinking of things like Alderson points (Niven/Pournelle),
>pulsar whips (The Forever War?), hyperspace structures (Babylon 5),
>wormholes (DS9), simple warp space (ST:TNG), or even the all-powerful
>LucasDrive that gets you from Hoth to Dagobah in the space of a few lines
>of dialog. :)
>
>Anyway, whether used by newly discovered civilizations, Ancients relics,
>whatever, I wonder how/if others have used such things in their campaigns.

	I've always wanted to try something like David Brin in his "Uplift"
series, where there were _dozens_ of different space drive principles, some
more ... dangerous than others. It'd be a pain in the ass to try and
balance them all properly so they each have pluses and minuses, though.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:00:33 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: [TML] A couple of rules questions

As a result of this evening's game, a couple of questions have come up:

1.  Vacuum suits are ruptured by attacks with penetration >= 3.  What,
actually, does this mean?  

Does penetration equal the number of damage dice the weapon uses, regardless
of the target's armor rating?

Or... does penetration equal the number of damage dice not negated by the
defender's armor rating, e.g., a weapon with 4 damage dice vs. a vac suit
(flexible armor rating = 2) gives a penetration of 2?

Or... have I missed the boat entirely - is penetration equal to something else?

2.  Hand grenades cost Cr250.  Considering that pistols of various types are
available for around twice that, does Cr250 seem reasonable?  This is NOT a
whine about the price (I can change it with a wink of the eye) - I'm curious
about how the price was arrived at...

3.  Paint/Smoke grenades in a vacuum.  A player came up with this.  The idea
is that the grenade goes off, filling the corridor, room, etc., with
droplets of paint or dust, in order to obscure sight. Paint would have the
possible advantage of smearing visors, etc., while dust of some sort would
have the possible advantage of endurance (because it'd not stick to the
first surface with which it came into contact).

Would this work?  Why/why not?

Any comments are appreciated! - Bill




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 15:53 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9702201853.A26648-0100000@fujin.qub.ac.uk>

<< 'Emissary' escape boat - no Imperial embassy should be without one. A 
10-person, hi-G, stealthy boat for getting essential personnel off planet 
safely. >>

No! You'd never be able to have scenes with the PCs trying to land on the 
roof of the embassy and rescue the staff, with the enemy outside trying 
to smash the doors down...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 15:53 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Crew requirements - a question

In-Reply-To: <199702202023.MAA13837@mom.hooked.net>

<< When asked specifically about Traveller, they all agreed that they would
definantly want someone trained to double-check the numbers put out by the
ship's computer. >>

Basically, you *can* get away without a dedicated astrogator, but it's not 
a good idea. You save money, but if things go pear-shaped you're in deep 
do-do.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:02:29 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Vehicle (and other) Cards

Finally got around to checking out the vehicle cards Marc Miller posted
here a few days ago, and I'm glad something like this might be made
available. Trying to either flip through books during gaming, or
remembering to copy down all the relevant stats before a session, is
annoying. I'd also like to see something like that for stock NPCs and
weapons. I've got examples I've posted on my Web Site 

	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Resources/NPCCards.html
		and
	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Locker/WeaponCards.html

It would be really nice if each adventure or supplement had, in the back,
all the NPCs, vehicles, starships, and weapons, printed on card stock,
ready for the referee to cut out and use.

Actually, it might be better if they were printed on regular paper, that
the referee could then photocopy onto card stock as many times as necessary.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:34:16 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #977

>>However, what is the "PBG" column in First Survey for. What are the three
>
>Total number of "P"lanets "B"elts and "G"as giants in the system

I thought that the "P" stood for Population Multiplier, since that is what
it always has before. In the "old days", you took the UWP digit for
Population and multipied the amount given there by the Pop Mult to get the
actual population (or close) of the world. For example , Pop UWP A means
"tens of billions"; a Pop 
Multiplier of 5 would mean there are approximately 50 billion people on the
world. Has this been altered?

Allen

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #978
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 23 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 979



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vehicle (and other) Cards
Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions
Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers
Re: anti-hijack
Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #977
Milieu 0 impressions
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Changes? And newbie questions (was Re: A Good Day)
THUDDD Winner!
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
THUDDD Runners-up!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:06:52 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Vehicle (and other) Cards

>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:02:29 -0700
>To: traveller@mpgn.com
>From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
>Subject: Vehicle (and other) Cards

>	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Resources/NPCCards.html
>		and
>	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Locker/WeaponCards.html


	Screwed this one up. The NPC Card url should read:

	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Resources/NPCs/NPCCards.html
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:45:10 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions

At 10:00 AM 2/23/97 -0500, Bill Rutherford wrote:

>As a result of this evening's game, a couple of questions have come up:
>
>1.  Vacuum suits are ruptured by attacks with penetration >= 3.  What,
>actually, does this mean? 

I would define it as damage remaining after armor, myself. 

Penetration is what's called damage in the T4 rulebook, and evidently is
Something That Will Be Changed in the Bug-stomped version.

>2.  Hand grenades cost Cr250. 

Hmmm.. the grenades I design ususally come in about Cr30 or so..

>3.  Paint/Smoke grenades in a vacuum.

This should work fine.. not however that the smoke will spread out faster,
and thin faster than in an atmosphere.  Using paint grenades, while messy,
could disable boarders.  Cans of spray-paint could also work.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
| "I will not have my spleen serve the Zionists!" |
|                             -Bill Turnbow       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:45:26 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers

At 09:29 PM 2/22/97 -0800, Peter J. Miller wrote:

>I went to see Empire Strikes Back on friday night (great, loved it!) and on
>the previews was a preivew for, Starship Troopers (presumably based on
>Heinlein's book).

It started out that way....

>Anyhow, the scene shown was of marine-like troops on some kind of desertish
>world's fortress fighting these pretty cool looking computer generated
>aliens, which appeared to look like insects of some sort (yellow and black
>colour I think).

Those are supposed to be the Bugs.  all Warriors, no workers.

>Not sure of how it releates to the novel, as, though I have it, I haven't
>gottne around to reading it as yet.

Read it.  Immediately.

As for the movie; it's so bad that Virginia Heinlein (Robert's widow) is
considering a lawsuit to get his name removed from the project.  How bad is
it?  No power armor, none of the scenes where the morality of being a
soldier is discussed (the heart of the book!), OCS has been cut, and the
entire plot has been changed.

*Bleah*

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
| "I will not have my spleen serve the Zionists!" |
|                             -Bill Turnbow       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:59:36 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: anti-hijack

>If a PC crew wants to spend the time and CrImps putting together their
>own shipboard system, I have them write up all the rules of their system
>and then *I* run it according to their rules. So far, a really complex
>system with onboard auto-turret weaponry has never been cost effective
>and has been sometimes down right dangerous to the crew.

Hear hear!  Isaac would certainly agree!  Having not once, but twice (or
more?) been the victim of malicious attacks against his person by said
defective FSY junk, he is pleased to announce that the felons responsible
have had appropriate justice meted out to them.

It was a hard-fought case, but the courts had their way with them at last,
leaving myself and Dr. Dinaaskiir (sp?) drained but victorious.

Ross Coburn
ross@ican.net
ross@ptm.ca

"Insert clever quote here."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:00:11 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions

At 09:45 am 02/23/97 -0800, you wrote:

>>3.  Paint/Smoke grenades in a vacuum.
>
>This should work fine.. not however that the smoke will spread out faster,
>and thin faster than in an atmosphere.  Using paint grenades, while messy,
>could disable boarders.  Cans of spray-paint could also work.

	Without an atmosphere, I would expect off the top of my head that the
smoke and paint particles will settle out MUCH faster, i.e. as fast as a
dropped rock.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:00:08 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #977

At 11:34 am 02/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>However, what is the "PBG" column in First Survey for. What are the three
>>
>>Total number of "P"lanets "B"elts and "G"as giants in the system
>
>I thought that the "P" stood for Population Multiplier, since that is what
>it always has before. In the "old days", you took the UWP digit for
>Population and multipied the amount given there by the Pop Mult to get the
>actual population (or close) of the world. For example , Pop UWP A means
>"tens of billions"; a Pop 
>Multiplier of 5 would mean there are approximately 50 billion people on the
>world. Has this been altered?

	Nope. As you've no doubt already seen, my fingers fired off before my
brain could catch up. P stands for Population.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 12:55:45 -0600
From: Harley Grantham <harley@wavetech.net>
Subject: Milieu 0 impressions

I picked up Milieu 0 at my local game shop.  It looks very good. I would 
have liked to see a mention somewhere that yes we changed Core subsector 
and we will explain it later or something to provide the reader with some 
confidence that this was not a mistake.  I 
would have also liked to see the Core sector map be a bit larger.  4 
subsectors on a page
would be much more legible.  I can't be the only one with astigmatism.  
Of course the nice
fold out maps like the Spinward Marches would be ideal, but I suspect 
that would cost too much in printing.  This isn't a big problem with this 
book as most of the star systems are blank, but if future books fill them 
out in more detail, a larger map scale would be extemely helpful.

Joe Walsh has mentioned the errata and that he will try to get it up on 
IG's web site.  This is a good idea, but I would also like to see it 
printed in a future JTAS.  Not everyone has web access.

I won't go into the interior art, except to say I look forward to IG 
finding another artist.  Some varity would be nice.

But the book itself is excellent.  I was a bit skeptical when I read that 
there would be "lots and lots of plot hooks in this book" but there are.  
It is full of color and will be one of the more heavily used Traveller 
books in my collection. 

Harley Grantham                                       harley@wavetech.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:59:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

Marc Miller wrote:

> Task Difficulties
> Difficulty Level      Dice Code       Typical Success
> Easy            auto   100%
> Average       2D              
> Difficult        3D              
> Formidable  4D              
> Staggering    5D              
> Impossible   6D              

>  If an Easy task is attempted using a default skill, the Dice Code is 1D.

I much prefer this to the current system in T4.  I dislike 1/2 dice and
regard the increase in difficulty of tasks as a good thing.  However, I
still dislike the way target numbers are calculated.  With the straight
stat+skill system currently in use, high stats make high skill levels
irrelevant.  I urge you to adopt the system developed by Ken Bearden where
the calculation is: 

        1)  Calculate target numbers using this method--
                (Skill x 2) + (Attribute / 2)          (round up)

Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 22:06:19 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: Re: Changes? And newbie questions (was Re: A Good Day)

Hello Mike on Feb 20 you wrote:

> At 02:50 AM 2/20/97 -0500, Harold D. Hale wrote:
> >   Given that the stellar generaton system is about to change, you may
> >want to hold off on that for the moment.
>
> Change how?  What's this referring to?
>
  Not sure on this one, but I know that certain people have been lobbying
IG to get the stellar generation system into line with current astronomical
thinking.

> And as long as I'm asking (I haven't been here long) what's THUDD?
> Could those of you rampantly using TLAs (Three Letter Acroynms :) ), once
> in a while refer to their actual meaning?
>
  THUDDD - TML Highly Unofficial & Democratic Design Derby

  There is also a list of TLAs in the FAQ :-) Have a look at
http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/tml-faq.html

> Thanks.
>
> Oh, and if there _is_ any cool shareware (other than the recently posted
> spreadsheet) for chargen, ship creation, stellar generation, etc., I'd
> _love_ to get ahold of it!
>
  You could have a look at my Java starship generation software, try
http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/Trav/SSDS/SAL.html for it. If you are
interested I also have some Amiga software, but given that you didn't
mention a computer type I assume you mean for PC.

Bye,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:18:26 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD Winner!

        Envelope please... <fumble fumble>  The winner of the first ever
TML Highly Unofficial and Democratic Design Derby is... <roll of drums,
fanfare of kazoos...

















...kazoo player takes deep breath and continues....






















...until he passes out with a thud>


        ...Chris Lloyd's Apogee Aerospace Marco Polo Far Trader!  Here's
how the THUDDD voters rated it, along with comments:

**********************************************
Apogee Aerospace Ltd, Marco-Polo class Far Trader

Overall: 6.7
Commercial Feasibility: 6.17
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5
Roleplaying potential: 6.33
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 7.66

*Total: 6.37*


> Another MCMPO, makes a profit on paper assuming you can find ten
>people willing to risk passage on a ship with no medic. The monthly,
>minimal crew economic assessment hides the true costs of this ship.
>At a higher crewing level it loses profitability, but people are much
>more likely to travel in it.


>Wierd internal arrangement. Personally, I want windows not reliant on
>cameras. Seems more at home as an Aslan design than Imperial doctrine.
********************************************************

        Wait, you say... the winning design had an overall rating of 6.37?
Suffice to say that some people were marking very, very harshly.  As well,
I noted that there was massive divergence in opinion; in some cases,
designs were getting marks of 2 and 10 in the same categories from
different people.  So without further ado, here is a beautiful
commemorative ASCII biscuit with the X-TEK logo hastily done up to replace
the original one that I accidentally lost when deleting back digests (sorry
Commander!):


 /---------\                                 /---------\
/   .       \_______________________________/   .       \
|                               .             .     .   |
|   The First THUDDD X-TEK Golden Biscuit Trophy    .   |
|    .      for the Best Far Trader Design    .         |
 |     .   presented to *CHRIS LLOYD* for the          |
|  Apogee Aerospace Ltd. Marco-Polo class Far Trader    |
|          .      23 February 1997                  .   |
|   .  .     _______________________________            |
\           /                               \           /
 \---------/                                 \---------/


        Are you going to stick it in your .sig, Chris :)?

        Here's Chris's winning design:



>
>Apogee Aerospace Ltd, Marco-Polo class Far Trader (SSDS)
>
>Tons: 200 Std (Slab S/L)  Volume: 2800 m^3                   Cost: 59.63 MCr
>Crew: 2                   Mid Pass: 10                       Low: 0
>Cargo: 94 Std             Controls: TL12 Dynamic Linked      TL: 12
>
>08 Size                               02 Jump Drive (280 Std/Pc Fuel)
>                                      01 Maneuver (T-plate, 2,000 T/Thr)
>02x empty light turret sockets        1.0 Power Plant (1x 100Mw)
>                                      40 Fuel (S40, R25)
>                                      00 Meson Screen (00 Mw)
>                                      00 Sandcasters (0000 Cans)
>                                      00 Nuclear Damper
>                                      A1 P2 J0 Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
>                                      00 Armor, 06 Structure
>
>Crew Detail: 1 Pilot/Navigator, 1 Engineer/Electronics.
>Full Crew: 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Electronics, 1 Engineer and up to
>           2 gunners.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Down payment: 11.93 Mcr
>
>Monthly payment: 248,458 Cr
>Monthly crew salaries: 10,000 Cr
>Monthly crew life support costs: 4,000 Cr
>Annual maintenance costs (Monthly): 4,969 Cr
>Fuel costs: 8,010 Cr
>Total Monthly Costs: 275,437 Cr
>
>Maximum monthly revenue: 308,000 Cr
>Maximum profit : 32,563 Cr
>
>Break even point: 89.4%  (Full cargo and 7.5 passengers,
>                          or Full passengers and 78 tons of cargo)
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>After the recent buyout of Apogee Aerospace by the custom ship design
>house Excession Shipyards, the future looked uncertain for Apogee.
>However it seems Excession has relaunched Apogee as a mass-production
>line, with the first model off the drawing boards and into production
>being the Marco-Polo class Frontier trader.
>
>Apparently named for a legendary Solomani trader, this ship is aimed
>at the small trader market, with a special niche in mobility.
>According to a press release from Apogee the ship is designed for
>"exploring and breaking new markets off the beaten track."
>
>Apogee claims that although the ship will only show marginal profit in
>the Imperial core (and according to our research only with a full
>hold), its real market is going to be speculative traders travelling
>to the edges of the Imperium and even beyond.  To this end the ship
>has been equiped with a fuel purifier, and allowances have been made
>for two standard 97Mj small laser turrets.  Although fully crewing the
>ship under these circumstances would reduce the number of cabins
>available to mid level passengers to six, increased charges, and the
>availability of speculative trade in such areas should more than make
>up the difference.  (We think due to the low ammount of armour on this
>model perhaps a sand-caster would be a better idea than a second laser
>turret?)
>
>The exterior of the ship shows Excession's trade mark lack of exterior
>windows.  Instead the panoramic views available in the staterooms and
>bridge are really external camera shots displayed on ultra-high
>resolution screens, whilst this doesn't actually give the feeling of
>actually "being" there, the designers point out the obvious weakpoints
>in the hull of a ship caused by large windows, and claim that many of
>their passengers actually prefered the feeling of security this
>arrangement generates.
>
>This allows the internal arrangement of the ship to be somewhat
>unusual.  The cargo hold is actually at the front of the ship with the
>ship's single large cargo hatch prominent at the nose of the craft.
>Next back from that are the passenger and crew cabins, and behind
>those the crew only flight deck and engineering areas.  The proximity
>of these last two areas apparently makes it much easier for a small
>crew to effectively manage a ship of this size.
>
>The overall feeling here is the Marco-Polo is a well balanced ship
>with good prospects in the Far Trader market.  It appears to be
>slightly expensive as compared to other ships in this market, but
>whether this is big enough to make much of an impact has yet to be
>seen.


        The two runners up were:

        Second:

**********************************************
Generica Shipyards Type 3726 - Far Trader

Overall: 6.14
Commercial Feasibility: 3.57
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.57
Roleplaying potential: 7.00
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 8.71

*Total: 6.20*


> An expensive design, but would make a good PC ship.

>
>This is the only ship to add emergancy low berths, and the only attempt
>to reproduce the classic A2 Far Trader. This should be a good candidate
>to become the standard.

>Notes: This is a good, solid design for an adventuring ship.

********************************************************


        Third:


**********************************************
transRift Engineering Corporation Greyhound-Class Far Trader (SSDS)

Overall: 5.79
Commercial Feasibility: 4.83
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.5
Roleplaying potential: 6.33
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 8.08

*Total: 6.11*


> Expensive, and has the Passanger Bug again, but the sensor suite and
>crew size make it a great PC vessel. Theoreticly it makes a profit,
>but I'm dubious as to its ability to regularly find 12 middle
>passangers. The description makes it sound as if crew comfort is low
>(bunks make the high cargo capacity possible) and the passanger
>accomodations sound like a flying coffin hotel.

>
>Added an un-necassary bridge, but the needle design caught my attention.
********************************************************

        The results for the other designs follow in the next post.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:23:54 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

In a message dated 97-02-22 23:35:50 EST, you write:

> > SPECTACULAR RESULTS (old)
>  >         The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a
positive or a negative sense.
>  >         Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the
 actual dice
>  > roll is the minimum possible roll (that is, 2 on 2D, 3 on 3D, 4 on 4D,
etc),
>  > the result is spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search
not
>  > only succeeds, it also stumbles on the master system password.
>  >         Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the
actual dice
>  > roll is the maximum possible roll (that is, 12 on 2D, 18 on 3D, 24 on
4D,
>  > etc), the result is a spectacular failure. For example, a computer
search not
>  > only fails, it also sets off security alarms.
>  
>  The first part is fine IMO. You should have less of a chance to
spectacularly succeed on 
>  really difficult rolls, but the second part makes a bone headed maneuver
less likely the more 
>  dangerous a task you take. Thus your chance of a right royal screw up is
3.6%  on an 
>  average task, 0.46% on difficult, 0.08% on formidable..well, you get the
 picture (who 
>  wants to change the light bulb and who wants to manually adjust the
reactor  core with this 
>  rusty knife; everyone volunteers for the latter)

SPECTACULAR RESULTS (NEW)
	The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
negative sense.
	Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is
spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not only succeeds,
it also stumbles on the master system password.
	Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result is a
spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not only fails, it also
sets off security alarms.

This gives 0.46% chance of spectacular failure and an equal chance of
spectacular success (and is independent of difficulty), but avoids giving a
spectacular for average or less difficulty.

Marc

 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:18:18 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD Runners-up!

        Here are the results for the other designs (in no particular
order).  Basically, I averaged the ratings in each category, and then
averaged those again to get a single rating for each ship, which I used to
determine the winner.  In passing, I should note that several voters were
absolutely merciless in their rankings, while others were extremely
generous; in several cases, ratings in a given category varied from 2 to
10.  I did not vote on any of them myself, so go hurl your abuse at the
TML, not me :).



**********************************************
New Victoria T-300 Series Far Trader

Overall: 5.75
Commercial Feasibility: 5.83
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.5
Roleplaying potential: 6.33
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 7

*Total: 5.88*

>without a fuel refinery this design is restricted to A or B starport
>which in turn resticts playability on the fringes which is where these
>little tramps make there profit in the first place. The designer used
>QSDS 1.4 which we know is error ridden so he gets down graded. While
>subject to argument it is the opinion that command crew requiremants are
>rounded down, so the command crew here is unnecassary.


**********************************************
Phoenix Corporation Type P-200AL Longship (Far Trader)

Overall: 5.6
Commercial Feasibility: 4.42
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.43
Roleplaying potential: 5.86
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 7.7

*Total: 5.60*


>        A good, error-free design which unfortunately suffers from a
>mild case of the Passanger Bug.

>The fuel plant is too large. The designer must have used v1.4 or lower
>so is down-graded (see above). this ship is more of aliner than a tramp
>frieghter like several of the other design which show a profit. The
>designer relies on wilderness refueling which is as we have seen is an
>economic disaster waitng to happen.
********************************************************


**********************************************
Entry by John R. Snead jsnead@netcom.com (SSDS)
Overall: 5.78
Commercial Feasibility: 4
Innovativeness & coolosity: 6.14
Roleplaying potential: 7.28
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.71

*Total: 5.98*


> A sexy Fast Trader design, which would make a great PC ship. The
>only entry to come fitted with a LIFEBOAT, so gets points for
>innovativeness. While the economic breakdown has it relying on mail
>as a standard (bad), I think that given it's high performance it
>could manage to break even. Don't know about the use of variant fuel
>purification plant size rules, though.

>
>Inclusion of the air/raft increases role-playablity but at the cost of
>available cargo space. The non-standard fuel purification was a nice
>solution to a design problem, and the J-3 engine was certainly invative
>but leaving the astrogator planetside is a bad design decision. This is
>the first of several design which abuse the skeleton crew rule. A
>skeleton crew is fine for the operator who takes his own risks, but
>never design for it. A contractor who does shouldn't be certified by the
>Imperium.

>One of the cheapest ships with Jump 3 and 2G drive?

>Notes: This is a bad far trader - but a good character's ship - loose the
>high passengers (for middle) and the mail and work off of speculative
>trade?

********************************************************


**********************************************
Brave Heart Class Far Trader

Overall: 5
Commercial Feasibility: 6.5
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.33
Roleplaying potential: 5.8
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 4.43

*Total: 5.21*


> A minimal crew, mid-passage only (MCMPO) design, whose economic
>performance seems to have been under-rated. Despite suffering from the
>Passanger Bug, it has heaps of space for cargo, and should be able to
>make it with a bit of speculation.

>No astrogator yet installed a bridge! Abused the skeleton crew rule!
>Utterly boring yet makes a good profit.

>Cargo 134 Dt + Passengers 20 Dt + Fuel 80 Dt = 34 Dt larger than ship.
>Passengers only counted once in feasability study, and fuel double
>what it needs (not that this healps with the size problem).
********************************************************


**********************************************
Deneb Corporation Model 3-b "Far Trader"

Overall: 4.64
Commercial Feasibility: 4.86
Innovativeness & coolosity: 6.2
Roleplaying potential: 4.57
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.71

*Total: 5.40*


> An unarmed interstellar dumptruck which would make a _great_ Free
>Trader design - it being made useless as a Far Trader by the use of
>demountable/dissasemable tankage for half its jump fuel. Relies on
>speculation for profit, but this would probably change if you removed
>those excess jump drives. The major drawback is crew quarters - I'm
>not sure if the captain would really be able to find commercial crew
>willing to live in a _bunk_...

>No astrogator and abuses the skelton rule. I did like the reference to
>the WW2  DC-3/C-47.

********************************************************


**********************************************
LTD SAMARKAND-Class Far Trader

Overall: 5.89
Commercial Feasibility: 4.43
Innovativeness & coolosity: 6.14
Roleplaying potential: 5.86
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.43

*Total: 5.75*


> A bit expensive, but otherwise a good overall design. I'm dubious
>about that "dual-use fueltank", though.

>
>The non-standard fuel tank in NOT canon! As the duely appointed
>representative of BSSHTS, I would not certify this design!

>
>Best ship - Samarkand. Good, solid design. Replace the high passenger with
>an air/raft
>and you got a great design.

********************************************************


**********************************************
Custom Built Wreckage Roland class Far Trader

Overall: 5.39
Commercial Feasibility: 3.85
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.29
Roleplaying potential: 6.37
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 7.66

*Total: 5.71*


> Way too expensive, and a _bad_ case of the Passanger Bug makes this
>one uneconomic except when running a regular route between hi-pop
>worlds - a niche which is already filled by the Big Players such as
>Tukera Lines. This piece of Custom Built Wreckage crashes and burns
>commercially.

>
>Economic figures unavailable for evaluation. Unique disk design, but no
>self-respecting pilot would by a ship from a company named 'Crash'!

>You'd have problems filling all those staterooms.

>Notes: Expecting 20 passengers is outrageous.

********************************************************


**********************************************
Ketaru Aerospace "Star"-class Far Liner

Overall: 5.63
Commercial Feasibility: 6.17
Innovativeness & coolosity: 6.33
Roleplaying potential: 6.00
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 5.83

*Total: 5.99*


> Too expensive by far, and I can't see how it got that way - did this
>one get its ISDP component discount? Not only does it suffer from the
>Passanger Bug, it also seems that Ketaru Aerospace needs to check up
>on the proper use of dismantalable tanks. This ship seems
>fundamentally broken.

>The larger hull might detract from the small operator who wants to cut
>corners with a skeleton crew (see above). The collapsable fuel tank
>won't fly! T4 doesn't address this well, but a collapseable full tank
>won't drain fast enough for Jump drive operations. Command crew is
>extaneous.

>Even if you can't fill all the staterooms, you can still afford to run
>it.

>Notes: This is a decent small liner, owned by a company - it's a poor tramp
>freighter.


********************************************************


**********************************************
PICH-1/2 "Far Trader"

Overall: 5.43
Commercial Feasibility: 5.14
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.29
Roleplaying potential: 5.43
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.43

*Total: 5.54*


> Too expensive, and the same problem with disassembable tanks as the
>last one. Slight case of Passanger Bug, and probably not profitable
>without speculation once you take annual downtime into account.

>
>Command unnecassary. Abuses collapseable fuel bladders (see above).
>Financial data scrambled.

********************************************************


**********************************************
Far Trader - Rhodes Yards Vicuna

Overall: 5.00
Commercial Feasibility: 6.4
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.00
Roleplaying potential: 4.16
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.83

*Total: 5.28*

> Another minimal-crew job which neglects essential positions (such as
>a medic); also saves crew by not having any sensors - which means it
>_will_not_ be considered flightworthy by Imperial Authorities.
>Economic assessment is somewhat overenthusiastic, but even when
>corrected this ship still makes a tidy on-paper profit, and will make
>even more with speculation.

>No astrogator! Cheap and mayby commercially viable with increased crew.


********************************************************


**********************************************
Burov class Far Trader (Type FL, passenger liner)

Overall: 6.00
Commercial Feasibility: 4.71
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.71
Roleplaying potential: 6.57
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 7.29

*Total: 6.05*


> A small passanger-liner aimed at BudgetLines and similar operations,
>this design has the Passanger Bug bigtime. Fourty mid-passages may
>look good on paper, but a quick reality check shows that you're lucky
>to get _half_ that many on a hi-pop world. economicly unfeasable.

>No astrogator! More of a liner than a tramp freighter.

>The varients would have done better.  There's no way to fill all the
>rooms.

>Notes: The prime ship is awful - the second variant is much better,
>although costly.
********************************************************


**********************************************
YugoBox J2 Far Trader (QSDS 1.5)

Overall: 4.86
Commercial Feasibility: 4.00
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.57
Roleplaying potential: 4.86
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 8.28

*Total: 5.31*


> Ah, the YugoBox - a classic and timeless design, which might just
>make money on speculation.

>Didn't add cost of un-refined fuel in economic analysis.


********************************************************


**********************************************
Tammuz-Karst TK-108 Far Trader

Overall: 4.93
Commercial Feasibility: 3.43
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.00
Roleplaying potential: 6.29
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.29

*Total: 5.19*


> Too expensive, and suffers from the QSDS HEPlAR bug. Large crew,
>heavy armament and improved sensors makes this an excellent ship for
>parties who like to lose money hand over fist.

>Uses broken HePlaR drives. No economic data.

>You'd need more fuel for the HEPLAR drive.  As it is you have barely
>enough to make it to the 100 diameter limit, let alone back again.


********************************************************


**********************************************
Catullus Aerospace Spendthrift Class

Overall: 5.93
Commercial Feasibility: 5.57
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.71
Roleplaying potential: 5.57
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 8.00

*Total: 5.97*


> A fairly run-of-the-mill design, excepting the large number of
>passanger staterooms caried and the screwups in calculating crew
>(needs another steward plus a medic). The on-paper profit is an
>artefact of the excessive number of high passangers - which isn't
>something you can count on - but it should work as a speculator's ship.

>
>Use of dome hull quite different, and the only ship to employ high
>automation. While more of a liner than a freighter, this was one of my
>favorites.

>Can't work out where the supposed break even point came from.

********************************************************


**********************************************
Khushdakaa (Opportunity) class Trader

Overall: 6.00
Commercial Feasibility: 2.60
Innovativeness & coolosity: 5.00
Roleplaying potential: 4.00
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 5.00

*Total: 4.52*


> The ultimate example of that minimalist design philosophy; is still
>kinda cool, but has those damn collapsible fuel tanks again - in
>addition to an apparant lack of sensors.

********************************************************


**********************************************
Goshawk Far Trader (SSDS)

Overall: 5.79
Commercial Feasibility: 5.83
Innovativeness & coolosity: 3.83
Roleplaying potential: 6.0
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 6.83

*Total: 5.66*


> YAMCMP design, makes a paper profit due to the skeleton crew, but
>sadly neglects to add the necessary medic and gunner. Given that most
>parties will arm their toys, it's not a bad RP ship...

********************************************************


**********************************************
GSbAG Marco Polo Class Far Trader(s) (SSDS) (TL12 Version)

Overall: 4
Commercial Feasibility: 4
Innovativeness & coolosity: 4.5
Roleplaying potential: 4
Freedom from glaring design errors & broken rules: 8

*Total:4.9*

Judge's note: due to its late submission, only 2 people voted on this one
which IMHO dragged it down.
********************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #979
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 23 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 980



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Second THUDDD
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: T4 task system
Re: MT Attributes
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
After THUDDD
RE: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: T4 task system
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: THUDDD Runners-up!
"Anyone see a Ringworld pass thru?"
Re: T4 task system

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:18:33 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Second THUDDD

        Is in the pipeline; I hope to get some work done on it tonight.
Get those spreadsheets ready..!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:27:02 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

In a message dated 97-02-23 15:27:56 EST, you write:

> 
>  I much prefer this to the current system in T4.  I dislike 1/2 dice and
>  regard the increase in difficulty of tasks as a good thing.  However, I
>  still dislike the way target numbers are calculated.  With the straight
>  stat+skill system currently in use, high stats make high skill levels
>  irrelevant.  I urge you to adopt the system developed by Ken Bearden where
>  the calculation is: 
>  
>          1)  Calculate target numbers using this method--
>                  (Skill x 2) + (Attribute / 2)          (round up)
>  
>  Thanks-
>  
I';m not convinced. I emailed a response to Ken on the TML which you should
read. I'd like to see a rebuttal.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:23:57 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T4 task system

In a message dated 97-02-22 07:41:23 EST, you write:

> > >        1)  Use the new target number calculation (half stat, twice
skill)
>  > >

So I took four typical people and looked at how they would fare under your
system:

Dullard has stat-4 and skill-1. Typical has stat-7 and skill-3. Expert has
stat-12 and skill-7. Superman has stat-15 and skill-12.

Dullard's target number is 2+2= 4 (as now it would be 5).
Typical's target number is 3 1/2 + 6 = 10. (As now it would be 7+3 = 10)
Expert's target number is 6 + 14 = 20. (as now it would be 12+7= 19)
Superman's target number is 7 1/2 + 24 = 32. (as now it would be 15+12= 27)

The results aren't that much different that we see for the system as now.
Results using Default skills would be lower than now, since 0 doubled is
still zero.

The system does seem to make a difference when someone has a low stat and a
high skill.

Marc


Where the system might make a difference is 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 16:19:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: MT Attributes

On 02/22/97 at 06:18 AM,  "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

> > It is one of the things I DISLIKE about T4 and TNE: 1:1 ratio of benefit
> > for skills and attributes. I AGREE that 5:1 is too steep, and feel 2:1 too
> > shallow, and so 3:1 is my house rule for MT. But see also above.

> Hmm.  3:1 in favor of stats?  I can't agree with that.  Natural  ability
> is important, but experience and trainging are more important  to
> anything you do.

I think you have it backwards.  Isn't he saying (Attribute/3 + Skill)?  I
think you'd agree this is superior to the old MT
(Att/5+Skill) method.

One of my problems with MT's (and your method too for that matter) is the
need to keep recaluating the Att factor during the game.  As you are hurt
your Attributes go down and consequently so do your target numbers.  Having
to redivide, whether by 2, 3, or 5, is still additional math during the
game, and *that's* what slows things down for me.  I'd rather do as much of
the math as possible before play.  This is one reason why I prefer raising
the Skill more than you do (on average) and not dividing the Attribute at
all.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:40:39 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

Interesting: Marc's version of the basic T4 book is obviously going to be
major overhaul. Thus, in addition to the basic book, or "Marc Miller's
Traveller Without Marc Miller" (MMT4w/oMM), we'll soon have the new
improved "Marc Miller's Traveller Deluxe Edition WITH Marc Miller"
(MMT4DEWMM)!

Anyway...

As the Task System Fix thread seems to have cropped up again, I might as
well repost my 2D Task System (with a few revisions), for those who missed
it the first time around. While it sounds to me like Kenneth's fix is
pretty good (it deviates as little as possible from the published rules,
and has by now been carefully adjusted), unfortunately it still uses those
pesky half dice, and IMO too many dice are used in general. I like my game
system streamlined, so my task system that only uses two dice for all
difficulty levels.

I would like to hear from anyone out there who has play-tested this system
- - how did it work? Any problems? I haven't had much chance to try it in a
real game - I'm still working up my campaign, while playing in Roderick's.

In Rod's game, we used straight T4, and definitely found that Impossible
tasks were too 'easy' for PCs with high characteristics. At one point, my
character (Dr. Dinaskir) single-handedly repaired many of the major systems
of an utterly trashed yacht (the Massilia) with an Engineering skill of
merely 1 ...and an EDU of F. (Sure, he's a bit of an Indiana Jones, and -
as an archaelogist studying the Rule of Man - he'd have to know at least
something about Engineering, but there are limits...)

Also, I've decided to change the chargen rules in my game so that EDU
benefits don't pile up quite so quickly. I think College should give you +1
EDU, graduating with Honours another +1, a Masters gives you +1 and a
Doctorate +1.  

Anyway, here's the 2D Task System. The benefits:
  * only two dice are rolled for all tasks,
  * no half-dice,
  * skill levels count for more than stat points,
  * target numbers can be calculated before play begins,
  * characters with high stats and/or skills are not super-powerful,
  * characters with low stats and/or skills are not too weak,
  * similar to a percentile system, hence more intuitive,
  * no pesky bell curve,
  * each increase in difficulty represents an equal decrease in probability,
  * each increase in skill or stat represents an equal increase in probability,
  * easily modified to suit situation, taste, style of game.

Recent changes:
  * Base Target Numbers for 0-level Default Skill tests are now *2*
Difficulty Levels lower than regular BTNs (instead of 1 level as in
previous versions).
  * The statistical percentages table should be a bit more accurate now. 

- -------------------------------------------------

             The 2D Task System
                    v1.5
          A simple task roll system
   compatible with Marc Miller's Traveller (T4)

The task roll is always two dice; one for a 'tens' digit and one for a
'ones' digit, for a result between 11 and 66. As in T4, the task is
successful if the player rolls the target number or less.

        Target Number = BTN + (skill*2) + (characteristic-7)

So, to determine the target number for a task:

1. Determine the Base Target Number (BTN):

   Difficulty Level       BTN
      Impossible           06
      Staggering           16
      Formidable           26
      Difficult            36
      Average              46
      Easy                 56

2. Modify the BTN by the PC's skill and by the corresponding characteristic.

   2a: +2 for each skill level. 
   2b: +1 for each characteristic point above 7; -1 for each point below 7.
        
NOTE, however, that these modifiers are not added in base-10. The modifiers
are counted as steps up or down the 11-66 matrix:

     <----down        up---->
01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26,
31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56,
61, 62, 63, 64, 64, 66

Example: a character with Skill 3 and Stat 9 is attempting a Difficult
task. The BTN is 26. He adds 6 for the skill (3*2=6) + 2 for the
above-average stat (9-7=2), for a total modifier of +8. The result is not
34, as it would be in base-10, because 34 doesn't exist on the this matrix.
Instead, he counts 8 steps up the matrix; so the actual target number is
42.

To save time, Difficult-task TNs for all skills can be pre-calculated by
the players before play begins. Adjusting for other Difficulty Levels is a
simple matter of altering the first digit of the target number.

For tests of 0-level Default Skills, don't halve the characteristic (as in
T4). Instead, increase the Difficulty by two levels (by simply subtracting
2 from the first digit of the base target number).

As always, a roll of two sixes is a spectacular failure, and two ones is a
spectacular success - even if the target number is below 11. 

Here's a chart to showing the resulting targets for an average stat
(ignoring for the moment the Spectacular Result rules)...

Stat = 7                      Skill
              0     1     2     3     4     5     6     7 
Easy         36    62    64    66   Auto  Auto  Auto  Auto
Average      26    52    54    56    62    64   Auto  Auto  
Difficult    16    42    44    46    52    54    56    62
Formidable   06    32    34    36    42    44    46    52
Staggering  -16    22    24    26    32    34    36    42
Impossible  -26    12    14    16    22    24    26    32 

For each stat point above 7, add 1 to these Target Numbers.
For each stat point below 7, subtract 1.

Probabilities:

Stat = 7                        Skill
               0     1     2     3     4     5     6    7  
Easy         48.6  89.6  95.2 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0  %
Average      32.4  72.8  78.4  84.0  89.6  95.2 100.0 100.0  %
Difficult    16.2  56.0  59.4  67.2  72.8  78.4  84.0  89.6  %
Formidable    0.0  39.2  44.8  50.4  56.0  59.4  67.2  72.8  %
Staggering    --   22.4  28.0  33.6  39.2  44.8  50.4  56.0  %
Impossible    --    5.6  11.2  16.8  22.4  28.0  33.6  39.2  %

Chance of Spectacular Success or Failure is always 2.8%.

NOTE: The T4 Multiple Actions rule will not work in this system. A new rule
is needed: when attempting multiple actions, do not divide the
characteristic. Instead, increase the difficulty two levels for each extra
action (-2 to the first digit of the target number). Thus, for a character
with stat of 7 and skill of 6, the target number for a single Difficult
action is 56-; for two such actions, 36-; for three, 16-. (Obviously, this
rule does not allow characters to perform as many extra actions as the
original rule.) [I would be interested to hear suggestions for a better
formulation of this rule.]


- -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                      <pawn@cam.org>
Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
                  -- Trevor Goodchild

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:26:50 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: After THUDDD

OK:  Now that the first THUDDD exposition is done, perhaps the contestants
would tell us how they designed their ships - esp. if they used a program
or spreadsheet, and perhaps make the programs/spreadsheets available on a
website?

I'd love to join in the fun, but I find building starships by hand (pencil
and calculator) annoying... I'd much prefer an SSDS (or even better QSDS 1.5)
spreadsheet...

Thanks!

- --
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist,           (217) 351-8250 x2365 = 
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL       dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998    =
= Official Kibitzer and Archivist for Digest Group Publications            =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org       (217) 469-9917 = 
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:29:39 +1300
From: Brody Dunn <brody@intersol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC224E.691F8C80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


>It started out that way....

>>Anyhow, the scene shown was of marine-like troops on some kind of desertish
>>world's fortress fighting these pretty cool looking computer generated
>>aliens, which appeared to look like insects of some sort (yellow and black
>>colour I think).

>Those are supposed to be the Bugs.  all Warriors, no workers.

>>Not sure of how it releates to the novel, as, though I have it, I haven't
>>gottne around to reading it as yet.

>Read it.  Immediately.

No - do it right NOW!

>As for the movie; it's so bad that Virginia Heinlein (Robert's widow) is
>considering a lawsuit to get his name removed from the project.  How bad is
>it?  No power armor, none of the scenes where the morality of being a
>soldier is discussed (the heart of the book!), OCS has been cut, and the
>entire plot has been changed.

NOOOOOoooooooo! - Anguished screams of pain as another goal is destroyed :(
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC224E.691F8C80
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC224E.691F8C80--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 18:44:08 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

On 02/23/97 at 02:03 AM,  "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

> > In a message dated 97-02-22 23:35:50 EST, you write:
 
> > > Good idea to kill the 0.5D6
  
> > Thanks.

I agree about the half dice.  I personally still use them for difficulty
modifiers, but not for regular difficulty levels.  I support the 
1/2/3/4/5/6 die idea.

> I tried to get rid of the half die when I was designing my T4 fix, 
> KBv1.1.  In doing so, I realized why the original designers of the 
> system put them in--they flatten out the curve.

Yep, they do that.  They also keep the top end lower unless you go to a
non-symetrical increase like your 1.5/2/2.5/3/4/5 method.  I don't like
non-symetrical..too hard to remember in the heat of play. Ultimately, the
way to handle this is to increase the skill points for low-end players.

> You straight 1-6 system, although it sounds good, is not practical 
> unless we find a way to boost the target numbers on the low end.

Right!  Try adding 2 for each skill gain rather than 1.  I guess everyody
*knows* I like a random (1d3) increase + aptitude, so I won't detail that
again. <g>

Here's some more ideas, I don't necesserily subscribe to them, but..

Ageism Theory:  as people age their rate of increase in knowledge declines,
ie. a 20 year old will increase in skill/knowledge faster than a 40 year
old, who will increase faster than a 60 year old during a given period of
time.

    Game Effect:  Characters get 2 skill rolls per year up to age
    30; 1 roll per year from 30 to 40; and 1 roll every other year
    after 40.

New Skill Theory:  people develop basic competence in a new skill fairly
quickly, but it takes years to become a master.

    Game Effect: Characters get 2 skill points for each increase up
    a 4.  After that they increase at a rate of 1 skill point per
    increase.
    
..and my own. <g>

Aptitude Theory:  people have more or less aptitude for each skill or
knowledge they want to develop.  This means they will increase at a varying
rate for different skills.

    Game Effect:  Simplist - Roll 1d3 the first time a skill is
    selected noting it on the character sheet.  Increase skill
    points for that skill by that number of points on each
    subsequent selection.

One more thing!  Change the name of the IMPOSSIBLE task to something else. 
It's really giving some of our more literal GM's and players a problem.  I
can live with it, but I'd prefer impossible to mean exactly that...call it
ICREDIBLE or something.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:02:00 -0600
From: Hugh Johnson <ratling@csrlink.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions

At 10:00 AM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>As a result of this evening's game, a couple of questions have come up:
>
>1.  Vacuum suits are ruptured by attacks with penetration >= 3.  What,
>actually, does this mean?  
>
>Does penetration equal the number of damage dice the weapon uses, regardless
>of the target's armor rating?
>
>Or... does penetration equal the number of damage dice not negated by the
>defender's armor rating, e.g., a weapon with 4 damage dice vs. a vac suit
>(flexible armor rating = 2) gives a penetration of 2?
>
>Or... have I missed the boat entirely - is penetration equal to something
else?
>
	The way that I see penetration is that you determine the number of damage
dice that a weapon inflicts, subtract the armor value, and if you have any
damage dice left that do full damage (not absorbed by the armor) then your
armor has been breached.  With flexible armor the dice that are reduced to
one point represent bruise damage, while full damage dice have penetrated
the armor and gone internal so to speak.

>2.  Hand grenades cost Cr250.  Considering that pistols of various types are
>available for around twice that, does Cr250 seem reasonable?  This is NOT a
>whine about the price (I can change it with a wink of the eye) - I'm curious
>about how the price was arrived at...
>
	You can reduce the cost if you want however I see the high price as what
it costs non-military personell to get a hold of (local law level providing
of course).  I would hate to see what kind of carnage a group of
bloodthirsty characters could do with indiscriminate use of frag grenades.
There really should be differrent cost for differrent types of grenades.  I
would think that a grenade used for signalling purposes should be cheaper
and easier to aquired than military frag and anti-vehicle grenades IMHO.

>3.  Paint/Smoke grenades in a vacuum.  A player came up with this.  The idea
>is that the grenade goes off, filling the corridor, room, etc., with
>droplets of paint or dust, in order to obscure sight. Paint would have the
>possible advantage of smearing visors, etc., while dust of some sort would
>have the possible advantage of endurance (because it'd not stick to the
>first surface with which it came into contact).
>
>Would this work?  Why/why not?
>
	This would be an effective means of providing cover against laser weapon
attacks if you also cut the gravity.  Its atmospheric density that allows
the dust to remain airborne.  In a vacuum the dust would collect more
quickly towards the center of a gravity well.  Is there any reason why a
grenade constructed using dust particles of the same polarity as the
starship grav plates wouldn't be able to remain airborne for use during
boarding actions?  I would think that the dust particles would be repelled
by the grav plates and if you could adjust the gravity (which if I
understand correctly is based on electromagnetic principles) then you could
achieve a point where the dust would neither move towards or away from the
gravity source.

>Any comments are appreciated! - Bill
>
>
>
>
>---------------
>Bill Rutherford
>worj@topgun.cinecom.com
>
>

Hugh Johnson    ratling@csrlink.net   <:8}}}---

"Anything that happens, happens.  Anything that, in happening, causes
something else to happen, causes something else to happen.  Anything that,
in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.  It doesn't
necessarily do it in chronological order, though."      -- Douglas Adams,
Mostly Harmless

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:15:07 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

At 09:06 PM 2/22/97 -0500, Marc brought us yet another set of tablets:

>EXPRESSING TASKS
>Tasks can be expressed in a variety of ways, depending on the important
>elements of the specific situation. The basic expression consists of a task
>phrase, a task statement, and any task comments. A typical task should be
>stated as with these three elements on three succeeding lines.

The return of the MT task!  this looks good to me so far.

>Task Phrase:
>	To accomplish an important activity (time).

I'm really happy to see time return to the task statement.  IMHO this was
one of the things that was sadly lacking from T4.  Might I suggest including
rules for hasty and careful attempts?  For example, Eneri might be in a
terrible hurry to repair the engine, and only take 1 hour, but at an
increased level of difficulty.  Eneri could also be very careful and
methodical, and take 4 hours and a lowered difficulty level.  a rule of
thumb would be:

+1 level of difficulty for each halving of time, -1 level of difficulty for
spending 2x time.

>	If a task phrase requires more than one line, it is probably too complex
and should be broken into two or more separate tasks.

Good way of helping novice referees there.  Also stops the players who say
"I want to leap to the chandelier, swing across the room, shoot the Sword
Worlder Colonel on my way out the window, and land running.  What's my roll?"

>	The Task Phrase may contain (in parentheses) the time the task generally
takes to accomplish. This information is optional, and may often be ignored.

I'd still like to see most tasks include this information just in case it's
needed.. I still have my MT task library somewhere, and all the tasks there
have times.

>	Uncertain Tasks. Characters undertaking tasks for which the results >are
not immediately clear may participate in an Uncertain task. The referee
>rolls some of the dice secretly and determines whether the task is
>successful. The result is only revealed when required by events. 

I think I prefer the old way where the referee and the player both roll the
task.  This system seems a little clunky.

>	Actions. Activities which do not depend on character skills or
>characteristics are called Actions instead of Tasks. An action is expressed
>like a task, but the Task Statement is more free form. It indicates the
>information which will be compared against the difficulty level.

Nice to have this difference noted in the rules.

Others have argued that this system still favors high characteristc PCs to
much, but in my experience T4 characters tend to spread out their skills,
dulling the effect of high characteristics.  

A quick poll of my players found no real problem with the 1/2 die; perhaps
they could be used as intermediary levels between the full die ones?

All in all, this looks like what I expected to see in the first place.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
| "I will not have my spleen serve the Zionists!" |
|                             -Bill Turnbow       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 19:19:24 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4 task system

On 02/23/97 at 05:23 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

> The results aren't that much different that we see for the system as now.
> Results using Default skills would be lower than now, since 0 doubled is
> still zero.

> The system does seem to make a difference when someone has a low stat and
> a high skill.

Marc,

I'm not going to argue *for* Ken's plan..he can do that without my help.
<g>

However, I'd like to point out that many of us prefer skills to have a
greater impact on target numbers than they currently do.  Ken's system
doubles skills, and keeps the numbers balanced by halving attributes.  My
system simply doubles (on average) the values of the skills and depends on
larger numbers of dice to balance the
difficulty.  Yes, I like the 1/2/3/4/5/6 dice, that's what I've been using
for sometime. <g>

Either way, though, I think most of the folks discussing tasks on the list
would like to see the the balance in target numbers shift from mostly
Characteristics to more Skills..and less
Characteristics.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:38:25 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> I';m not convinced. I emailed a response to Ken on the TML which you should
> read. I'd like to see a rebuttal.

Kenneth has a good fix, but the prob with 0.5D6 is player honesty, the problem being what 
die is the half one. And the continuous explaining of what round up means
(sorry if that sounds fecicious but I am not kidding)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:36:33 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> SPECTACULAR RESULTS (NEW)
>         The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
> negative sense.
>         Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
> roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is
> spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not only succeeds,
> it also stumbles on the master system password.
>         Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
> roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result is a
> spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not only fails, it also
> sets off security alarms.

Just one thing, 6D task: rolls are 1,1,1,6,6,6

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:42:53 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD Runners-up!

Far Trader - Rhodes Yards Vicuna
> Another minimal-crew job which neglects essential positions (such as
>a medic); also saves crew by not having any sensors - which means it
>_will_not_ be considered flightworthy by Imperial Authorities.
>Economic assessment is somewhat overenthusiastic, but even when
>corrected this ship still makes a tidy on-paper profit, and will make
>even more with speculation.
>No astrogator! Cheap and mayby commercially viable with increased crew.

Now for my rebuttal
1) it has minimal sensors (effective range of zero)
2) how is economic assesment overenthusiastic?
3) a 200 ton ship can be used by two crew (as per starships)
4) the steward is also a medic, if need be

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:52:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Keith Thoms <kthoms@nooster.nosc.mil>
Subject: "Anyone see a Ringworld pass thru?"

Mike Sellers wrote:
> 
> Anyway, whether used by newly discovered civilizations, Ancients relics,
> whatever, I wonder how/if others have used such things in their campaigns.

The most awesome relic/plot device that I've played in was Mark Cook's
PBEM.  The adventurers of the Elissa returned to their uncharted
ringworld/system only to find a diminshining reft in space.  Inside, and 
past the excitement of a "welcoming committee"  we found ourselves in "The
Wire", a 1-light year long by 20km tube where micro-jumps along the center
were instantaneous.  Openings back into real-space, in varying size,
occur at random intervals, durations, and locations in the Wire.  They
don't match up to any predictable systems either.  You look outside and
you take your chances...  It pre-dated the Ancients, and the laws of
physics fall apart near the ends (ie bad there).

The occupants of The Wire, is another story...

- ---------------
Keith Thoms for
Aolrkhea', female Aslan:  201cm tall, 98kg.  Yellow Fur,  shading  
into light-brown and touched by gray.  Red and black tunic ornate   
with  gold trim.  Biologist, Surgeon, Assistant Engineer,  Sensor 
Ops/Screens.   Artistic bent, dabbles in Traditional Aslan  cures 
(herbal/acupuncture).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:01:51 -0500
From: "Dr. Vince" <drvince@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

At 05:23 PM 2/23/97 -0500, Marc Miller (First among Equals) wrote:
>So I took four typical people and looked at how they would fare under your
>system:
>
>Dullard has stat-4 and skill-1. Typical has stat-7 and skill-3. Expert has
>stat-12 and skill-7. Superman has stat-15 and skill-12.
>
>Dullard's target number is 2+2= 4 (as now it would be 5).
>Typical's target number is 3 1/2 + 6 = 10. (As now it would be 7+3 = 10)
>Expert's target number is 6 + 14 = 20. (as now it would be 12+7= 19)
>Superman's target number is 7 1/2 + 24 = 32. (as now it would be 15+12= 27)
>
>The results aren't that much different that we see for the system as now.
>Results using Default skills would be lower than now, since 0 doubled is
>still zero.
>
>The system does seem to make a difference when someone has a low stat and a
>high skill.

But the salient question is what is more important, skill or stat? In this
case, Marc, I think your example is flawed, and might be more instructive as
follows:

Dullard has stat 7, skill 1
Typical has stat 7, skill 3
Expert has stat 7, skill 7 
Superman has stat 7, skill 12

The numbers are then: Dullard 8 (T4), 6 (KBv1.1), Typical 10 (T4) 10
(KBv1.1); Expert 14 (T4), 18 (KBv1.1); and Superman 19 (T4), 28 (KBv1.1).

The task systems then are radically different in what the emphasis is on.
Under the T4 system, it is near impossible to have a highly trained and
skilled character with a low stat beat a duffer with a good stat. It also
means that *some* training is better than *nothing*. In my own personal GM
philosophy, I'd rather reward the skill than the stat. Under the KB system,
skill is primary, and training (enough of it) can overcome a low stat.
Personally, I like that. However, with such emphasis being placed on the
skill, perhaps capping the maximum skill level is called for. For instance,
if a skill level cap of 10 was imposed (ie 10 is the maximum score in any
skill) you could make a statement about what level is the normal
professional level (say 4-5). So a docor is liscensed at 4, say. A normal
doctor's target number is 12, meaning that for simple tasks he has almost no
chance of failing, and any failure would be something catastrophically dumb.
A highly trained and motivated (but still stat 7) doctor would have skill 8,
making hs target number 20, maybe a touch high, but workable. A stat 7
doctor with skill 10 would have a target number of 24, which is damned near
godlike, but then again it could be argued that it *should* be.

It just doesn't make sense that a bright person (Int C) with Medical 1
should be a better diagnostician than an average (Int 7) liscensed doctor
(Medical 3). Under T4's standard system, that is exactly what happens. With
a good stat you can take a couple of levels of JoT and have better target
numbers than low stats and lots of training. To me that is a big problem.

A possible further modification of the KB task system would be to double the
skill only to 5, then add any additional skill singly. For example, a stat 7
doctor with skill 10 under KBv1.1 has a target number of 24. If instead you
doubled only to skill 5 (ie 1/2 stat (4) plus double skill to 5 (10) plus 5
extra levels in Medical) the target number is 19. This might curb the
godliness of extremely highly skilled characters. Alternatively you could
just add more dice to the Impossible and Very Difficult task slots, but I
don't have the statistics to work out how often a 19 fails against 5D versus
how often a 24 will, so I am not so sure about how how many more dice to add.

Vince
(drvince@ix.netcom.com)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Familiarity breeds contempt. People assume I am familiar with everything.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
		The virginal brides
		file past his tomb
		strewn with strident flowers
		bereft in deathly bloom
		alone in a darkened room-the Count
		Bela Lugosi's dead.
			-Bauhaus, "Bela Lugosi's dead"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Vince Coccia, distinguished legal counsel for His Infernal Majesty, is
drvince@ix.netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #980
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 24 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 981



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions
First Survey Subsector Names
Second THUDDD: Call for designs!
THUDDD Rules
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: T4 task system
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Traveller Vehicles
I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
What are the chances of THAT happening??
Half-dice and attributes
Honesty and the Half-Die
Re: Alternative Jump Methods?
Tasks (draft 022397)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:33:54 -0500
From: "Dr. Vince" <drvince@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions

At 12:00 PM 2/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>>3.  Paint/Smoke grenades in a vacuum.
>>
>>This should work fine.. not however that the smoke will spread out faster,
>>and thin faster than in an atmosphere.  Using paint grenades, while messy,
>>could disable boarders.  Cans of spray-paint could also work.
>
>	Without an atmosphere, I would expect off the top of my head that the
>smoke and paint particles will settle out MUCH faster, i.e. as fast as a
>dropped rock.

I think you are right, but if you turned the grav-plates off before
deploying it, even in a vacuum you'd have a sphereoid cloud of non-dispersed
paint/smoke particles. That would be really great stopping beam weapon fire...

Vince

>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Familiarity breeds contempt. People assume I am familiar with everything.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
		The virginal brides
		file past his tomb
		strewn with strident flowers
		bereft in deathly bloom
		alone in a darkened room-the Count
		Bela Lugosi's dead.
			-Bauhaus, "Bela Lugosi's dead"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Vince Coccia, distinguished legal counsel for His Infernal Majesty, is
drvince@ix.netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 22:51:19 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: First Survey Subsector Names

Greetings All:

I spent some time today (before putting up molding in a room we have been 
working on for the past six weekends!) looking up subsector names for the 
sectors in Milieu Zero and First Survey. I was able to get names for 
Corridor, Vland, Lishun, Core and Massilia. So far I have not been able 
to find names for the subsectors in Antares, Gushemege, Dagudashaag, 
Fornast (even though this is a "ref's sector", I'd like to get the old 
"official" names), Ilelish, Zarushagar, Delphi (same as Fornast, still 
would like to get the names).

If anybody needs them as well, here are the names I've collected. I 
figure on sticking this in both M0 and FS until the official printups are 
available. Sources are mostly DGP's Traveller Digest issues...

CORRIDOR SECTOR
A--Khouth
B--Kukish
C--Lemish
D--The Narrows
E--Ian
F--Strand
G--Naadi
H--Uanti
I--Shush
J--The Empty Void
K--Atu'l
L--Kivu
M--Two Worlds
N--Ashishinipar
O--Sinta
P--Sashrakusha

VLAND SECTOR
A--Voskhod
B--Vhodar
C--Anarsi
D--Theton
E--Lalaki Kharir
F--Kagamira
G--Vland
H--Shiigus
I--Dusa
J--Akumid
K--Kasear
L--Anaked
M--Parsi
N--Daangiilu
O--Nulisud
P--Kakadan

LISHUN SECTOR
A--Vakkuun
B--Adawi
C--Sutri
D--Criideu
E--Pryden
F--Masionia
G--Gama
H--Tephany
I--Shuna
J--Taccis
K--Simen
L--Ot Zell
M--Shuun
N--Welling
O--Strashna
P--Mirmida

CORE SECTOR
A--Apge
B--Perite
C--Ameros
D--Shinkan
E--Sanches
F--Mekee
G--Core
H--Kaskii
I--Bunkeria
J--Cemplas
K--Chant
L--Dingtra
M--Cadian
N--Ch'naar
O--Dunea
P--Saregon

MASSILIA SECTOR
A--Kerr
B--Arar
C--Khisham
D--Zalucha
E--Keum
F--Vaait
G--Forquee
H--Palasha
I--Ten Suns
J--Shiwenee
K--Nes'Vra
L--Tooka
M--Annari
N--Shokee
O--Shimmer
P--Oreo


Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to 
vote."

Ambassador Kosh
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:54:44 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Second THUDDD: Call for designs!

        OK: as already stated, this time around we're doing the Mercenary
Cruiser.  Mission requirements are:

1) Ship must be affordable by your average planetary government, megacorp,
or mercenary group.  I'm not going to give any numbers; if people vote
harshly against overly expensive vessels, this will take overpriced vessels
out of the running.

2) Ship must be capable of accomodating and transporting a mercenary
company and its equipment and vehicles.  Take 40 troops as a very flexible
baseline.  As well, assume that the company in question are not going to be
an armoured frontline elite shock force.

3) Ship must be capable of landing said troops on planet, either via small
craft or by landing itself.

4) Ship must be capable of providing fire support, either locally or from orbit.

5) Ship must be capable of ship-to-ship combat.

6) Ship must have command and communications facilities suited to the
operations it will be undertaking.


        Deadline for submitting votes is Sunday March 1st.  I will post
entries to the list Monday March 2nd.  Get to it!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:54:37 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD Rules

        OK... here's my generally non-ISO-9000-certifiable attempt at
Generally Procedural-Like Guidelines (GPLG's) and Vaguely Rule-Like
Thingies That Must Be Adhered To Unless You Don't Feel Like It
(VRLTTMBATUYDFLI's).  Cut these out and paste them over your monitor.  Or
your forehead.


Statement of purpose:

        The THUDDD's purpose is a) to provide a variety of innovative and
different designs for use in our Traveller gaming, b) to foster discussion
about the design sequences and to improve our skills and understanding of
the rules and perhaps debug the rules themselves, and c) to have some
friendly, competitive, fun.

GPLG's

1) Coordinator (me so far but if anyone wants the job, hint hint) announces
THUDDD open by calling vote.  Where the vote for the previous THUDDD was
very close, he may skip this step and choose the runner-up ship, vehicle,
or weapon class immediately.

2) After the voting period announced is over, Coordinator tallies up votes
and announces winner (ties are resolved by having the Coordinator's
significant other choose).  Coordinator then invites comment on design
specifications.

3) After it becomes clear to the Coordinator that everybody's provided all
the input they're going to, the Coordinator launches the design phase.

4) After the design phase has ended, Coordinator assembles the entries and
posts them to the TML.  Voting takes place over the course of one week from
the date of this posting.

5) After voting phase ends, Coordinator tallies up the votes, declares a
winner and awards the ASCII award donated by prominent TML'er character,
posts the ratings and comments, and takes a break.


VRLTTMBATUYDFLI's

1) The Coordinator may modify, ignore, skip, bugger with, add to, or waive
any or all of the VRLTTMBATUYDFLI's and GPLG's as needed to make things run
smoothly or fairly.

2) Unless waived, a deadline is a deadline; late submissions and votes will
be ignored.

3) All entries and votes are to be sent via email to the current
Coordinator (who is currently yours truly at <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>).

4) Entries may be posted to the list by their designers before the end of
the design phase if their designers don't mind helping their competition.

5) One entry per participant.  Subsequent entries by the same participant
will supersede previous entries.  Where you've got multiple designs that
you think rock the free planet, choose one, and one only.

6) Votes may be integral numbers only, arglebarg!

7) Participants may not vote upon their own designs.

8) Ballots are not to be posted to the list; comments may be made but short
is good.

9) Designers MUST use Wildstar's improved USD (see Appendix 1: Wildstar's
New&Improved USD Format That Must Be Followed (WN&IUSDFTMBF)).  Voters are
encouraged to deal harshly (like they need any encouragement anyhow) with
transgressors.

10) Entries are to follow this outline:  USD first, then descriptive blurb,
then design sequence numbers (this latter is optional).

11) Sticking to the mission requirements is somewhat encouraged.  Harshly
rating designs that stray too far from the mission requirements is also
encouraged.

12) 12 VRLTTMBATUYDFLI's are quite enough.  If more are needed Coordinator
may apply VRLTTMBATUYDFLI 1), above and make THUDDD Diktats, Updates, etc
in the course of the THUDDD.


Appendix 1: Wildstar's New&Improved USD Format That Must Be Followed
(WN&IUSDFTMBF):


>Ship or Class Name and Type (Design System)
>
>Tons: ### Std (Config)    Volume: ###### m^3           Cost: #### MCr
>Crew: ####                High/Mid Pass: ####          Low: ##
>Cargo: ## Std             Controls: Type (Bridge)      TL: ##
>
>## Size                               ## Jump Drive (## Std/Pc Fuel)
>                                      ## Maneuver (Type, ## Mw)
>##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##    ## Power Plant (#x ##Mw)
>##x BatteryName (##) ##/##            ## Fuel (Scoop ##, Refine ##)
> w/ ## MissileName #/# #G##           ## Meson Screen (## Mw)
>                                      ## Sandcasters (#### Cans)
>##x LaunchFacility (Craft)            ## Nuclear Damper
>##x HangarFacility (Craft)            A# P# J# Sensors (# Stealth/Cloak)
>                                      ## Armor, ## Structure
>
>Crew Detail: ## Command, ## Sensors, ## Gunners, ## Engineer, ## Steward
>             ## Troops, etc as needed ...
>
>Notes: Explanations and details of the above as needed.
>
>Additional comments and description of the ship may follow in additional
>paragraphs.   USPs and comments for carried craft follow.
>
>
>Thoughts on USPs in general:
>I think the description and notes are much better at the end, rather than at
>the top (above the name or class).  This allows the start of an entry to be
>visually distinctive - much easier for the referee to locate when he or she
>needs the information in a hurry.
>
>Generally, a USP will be for either a single ship (in which case the ship
>name should appear in the title), or for an entire class (in which the class
>name should appear instead of the ship name).  For example, "Empress Marava
>Free Trader" (a single ship), or "Beowulf-class Free Trader" (a class).
>
>Particularly for designs that will be shared with others, the design system
>used (QSDS, SSDS, or something else) should be noted.  It's convenient to
>put it up in the title.
>
>This is just a personal thing, but I prefer the units to appear after the
>number (just like they taught me in Engineering school), instead of before
>it.  I'll concede that the other way is easier for spreadsheets, though.
>It's no big deal to me either way.
>
>You can consider "Std" to stand for "Standard Tons Displacement".  ;-)
>
>IF the ship has a bridge, you should note "(Bridge)" after the controls.
>Advanced designs with things like CIC (Combat Information Center), Fighter
>Control Bridge, Fire Control Bridge, or Flag Bridge should mention them on
>the controls, or (if there isn't room), in the notes.
>
>I'm undecided on the way of formatting the second half of the entry.  The
>original (T4) USP had them as "## Rating", but many people seem to prefer
>"Rating: ##".  I don't particularly care, but think that the first MIGHT be
>easier to read quickly.
>
>The Jump drive should be rated in parsecs, and include the number of dTons
>of fuel per parsec jumped (this is easy to figure, but is nice to add, since
>for some designs the ship may have fuel for more than one jump).
>
>Maneuver drive should also specify what type of drive (Fusion Rocket,
>HEPlaR, T-Plate) it is.  If the ship does NOT have Contra-Grav, this should
>also be noted in the maneuver drive line (as "No CG").  The default
>assumption is that most or all ships in Traveller have contra-grav, since it
>makes landings and takeoffs much easier and safer.
>
>Knowing the output of the power plant in Mw is a nice thing to have; for
>QSDS designs, it's helpful to put something like "2x100Mw" or "100Mw+50Mw".
>
>Fuel should be listed in DISPLACEMENT TONS!  If scoops or refining
>capability is present, list the capacity (in dtons scooped per hour, or
>dtons refined per hour), like "Scoop 150, Refine 10" or "S 150, R 10".
>
>Sandcaster rating should include the total number of cans available.
>
>Sensor ratings should include a note about stealth or masking (if
>installed).  For future expandability, this entry should be "-1 Stealth" or
>"-3 Masking" (currently the only available types are stealth for -1DM or
>masking for -3DM, but others may be possible in the future).
>
>I strongly recommend adding the crew detail, no matter what format you
>use for your USPs.  Knowing the crew detail helps a LOT when trying to
>decide if the ship is suitable for a given party.
>
>
>Battery listings.  Yes, well.  I'm advocating a new format of the battery
>listing, that also does away with the fire-control rating.  It's a bit
>different than the current one, so bear with me while I explain:
>
>This is the format for a laser, particle acellerator, or meson gun battery:
>##x BatteryName (##) #/##-##-##-##
>Example:
> 1x Laser Carronade (+4) 1/4-1-1-0
>
>The first number ("1x") is the number of such batteries installed; on a
>large ship, you could easily fill the page by listing all 30 or so laser
>batteries individually.  The text ("Laser Carronade") describes the weapon
>system.  The number in parentheses is the total bonus (for fire-control,
>rate of fire, or other factors) for this battery.  For current design
>systems, just put the appropriate Fire Control Rating here, since that's the
>only bonus that applies.  This will let you mix "civilian" fire-control
>rating 0 weapons with "military" weapons on the same ship.  The last 5
>numbers are the hits and penetration of the weapon; the first number (in
>front of the slash) is the number of hits.  This is the number of rolls on
>the damage tables if the weapon hits.  For all current lasers, the damage
>is 1, and for all current particle acellerators and meson guns, it's 2.  The
>last 4 numbers are the penetration at each range.  Please use dashes to
>separate these numbers, not slashes, even with the old USP format!
>
>This is the format for a missile battery:
>##x BatteryName (##) ##/##
>w/ ##/##x MissileName #/# #G##
>Example:
> 1x Missile Barbette (+4) 20/20
> w/ 20 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12
>
>The "1x", text, and fire-control bonus mean the same as above.  The last two
>numbers on the first line ("20/20") refer to the number of missiles that can
>be launched by the battery in one turn, and the number that can be guided
>simultaneously.  This battery (which has 4 turrets and 5 MFDs), has 20
>launch tubes, and can guide 20 missiles at once.
>
>The second line specifies the type of missiles available (if a battery is
>loaded with multiple types, each type needs its own line.  The first symbol
>("w/") simply means "with".  The next number ("20") is the number of
>missiles available.  The text ("Guided DetLaser") is the name of the missile,
>and gives the guidance type.  The next group ("1d6/2") gives the number
>of hits (rolls on the damage table) and penetration of the missile (current
>detonation-laser missiles have 1d6 hits, while all other types do 1 hit).
>The last group ("6G12") gives the performance of the missile: this missle
>can make 6Gs acelleration, and has enough fuel for a total of 12G-turns
>(generally 6Gs for 2 turns).
>
>
>Finally, I've also proposed a way to detail the ship's facilities and
>carried craft.  Each line specifies the number of such facilities installed,
>names them, and names or describes the craft carried.  Here are some
>examples:
>
> 1x Launch Port (50-ton fighter)
> 2x Launch Tube (50-ton Fighter)
>24x Spacious Hangar (50-ton Fighter)
>
>This describes a ship (a carrier, perhaps) that has a single launch port for
>use when the dual launch tubes are blocked or inoperable, and hangars for
>24 50-ton fighters.
>
>A subsidized Merchant might well be listed with:
>
> 1x Streamlined Grapple (20-ton Boat)
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 21:11:09 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

On 02/22/97 at 08:36 PM,  Mused <marz@hotstar.net> said:

>> roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result >> is
a spectacular failure.  For example, a computer search not >> only fails,
it also sets off security alarms.

> Just one thing, 6D task: rolls are 1,1,1,6,6,6

Yep..<g>..I thought about that too.  Of course, you can have
successes and failures on the same attempt.  Here's how I'd handle that: 
1. the roll is less or equal to the target number.."You found the data on
the computer, and as luck would have it, the control codes for the doors
too, but you also set off the security alarms."; 2. the roll is more than
the target number.."You were able to get the control codes, but not the
data you were looking for, AND you set off the security alarms."

Frankly, I still like my SF technique.  The GM picks up any sixes rolled
and rolls them again.  Any sixes on the second roll are increasing levels
of failure.  Yes, these levels are GM determined, and I like it that way.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:16:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

Hmmm.  What about having what I've been calling "DLs."  DLs are
Difficulty Level modifiers (like TNE).  I use them to change the
number of dice rolled.  Some stuff I deem DMs (add it to the target
number).  Perhaps atributes could adjust target number, and skills
could adjust the difficulty.

So a guy with great atrributes might find a task Impossible, but
with a target number of 12, while a guy without the great
attributes, but who is highly trained might have a Difficult task
with a target number of 7.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:38:33 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

In a message dated 97-02-23 22:10:15 EST, you write:

> 
>  Just one thing, 6D task: rolls are 1,1,1,6,6,6
>  
Yes, if top end is 6D; Good point.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:32:05 -0600
From: Hugh Johnson <ratling@csrlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Vehicles

At 03:53 PM 2/23/97 GMT0, you wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9702201853.A26648-0100000@fujin.qub.ac.uk>
>
><< 'Emissary' escape boat - no Imperial embassy should be without one. A 
>10-person, hi-G, stealthy boat for getting essential personnel off planet 
>safely. >>
>
>No! You'd never be able to have scenes with the PCs trying to land on the 
>roof of the embassy and rescue the staff, with the enemy outside trying 
>to smash the doors down...
>
>    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
>Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
> "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
>

	Imperial embassies should have some sort of evacuation plan for  important
dignitaries.  Of course there is no reason that the vehicle couldn't be
sabotaged or even shot down and forced to land in an even more precarious
situation.  Possibly with the characters on board <G>. 

Hugh Johnson    ratling@csrlink.net   <:8}}}---

"Anything that happens, happens.  Anything that, in happening, causes
something else to happen, causes something else to happen.  Anything that,
in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.  It doesn't
necessarily do it in chronological order, though."      -- Douglas Adams,
Mostly Harmless

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:32:07 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

Kenneth Bearden writes:
 
>It is a good idea to kill the half die, but this is harder to do than 
>you might expect.  
>
>I tried to get rid of the half die when I was designing my T4 fix, 
>KBv1.1.  In doing so, I realized why the original designers of the 
>system put them in--they flatten out the curve.
>
>You straight 1-6 system, although it sounds good, is not practical 
>unless we find a way to boost the target numbers on the low end.

   No offense to Kenneth, but it just has to be said....

   I've seen a number of people here propose any number of fixes to the
T4 system, and I have come to a conclusion: most Traveller players and
referees are totally fixated on using D6 (and its bastard cousin, D3). 
So much so, they would rather come up with complicated formulas, native
ritual dances, or semi-mystical chant spells so that they can use D6s
instead of some other form of dice.

   Why?  Is there something inherantly evil about D10s and D20s that
I've been blinded to because of some spell cast on me by TSR during a
visit to GenCon?  Is it that D10s and D20s are only available here in
Ohio, and the rumors of their availability elsewhere are part of a
diabolical TSR plot?

   I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
please explain it to me?

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:28:59 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: What are the chances of THAT happening??

>Just one thing, 6D task: rolls are 1,1,1,6,6,6

Oh fer cryin' out loud...

That's easy! The Spectacular Success cancels out the Spectacular Failure!

yeesh...
                Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:22:30 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Half-dice and attributes

>However, I'd like to point out that many of us prefer skills to have a
>greater impact on target numbers than they currently do.  Ken's system
>doubles skills, and keeps the numbers balanced by halving attributes.  My
>system simply doubles (on average) the values of the skills and depends on
>larger numbers of dice to balance the
>difficulty.  Yes, I like the 1/2/3/4/5/6 dice, that's what I've been using
>for sometime. <g>
>
>Either way, though, I think most of the folks discussing tasks on the list
>would like to see the the balance in target numbers shift from mostly
>Characteristics to more Skills..and less
>Characteristics.  

Well, that's as may be, but it doesn't speak for me! (I realize you said
"most"). I think this comes down to a stylistic debate (LOTS of games these
days have attributes having a greater effect on overall changce of success),
and of course that old stand-by "We want our old Traveller back". I like the
balance of attribute and skill the way it is.

As for task systems, I don't mean to personally slam Ken, as he's a good guy
and I enjoy reading his posts. But I see absolutlely no inherent value in
using his system over the one Marc has proposed. The target numbers are not
different enough to make any difference, and all that's added is another
calculation when making a character (albeit a simple one, especially for
those of us who actually USE Fire, Fusion and Steel...), and the one thing
my players say over and over again is that they like T4 because it's SIMPLE!
Realism gets sacrificed for simplicity and playability; thus it was in the
olden days (say 1977) and thus it shall be today.
        IMAGINATION can fill in where realism stops.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:25:25 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Honesty and the Half-Die

>Kenneth has a good fix, but the prob with 0.5D6 is player honesty, the
problem >being what die is the half one. And the continuous explaining of
what round up >means (sorry if that sounds fecicious but I am not kidding)


There's an easy solution; buy some d3's! I have three of them and plan to
get more. They are available through most distributors. Wargames West
carries them if nothing else.

if player honesty is that much of a problem, I say employ the PARANOIA
approach; kill the bastards!

        Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:45:59 -0500 (EST)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alternative Jump Methods?

       I tried several approaches to the Alderson Drive problem.  The drive
itself was simply the "Keyhole Drive" found in the alternate technologies
section of GDW's "FF&S" pg.44.  My attempts to calculate the Alderson Point
itself were always unsatisfactory as calculating the Alderson Pts. relies
upon lines of equal thermonuclear flux(luminosity).  I eventually settled on
the formula: Alderson Pt(A) in au = sqrt((Luminosity of Star B/Luminosity of
Star A)times ((2d6-1)^2).  Alderson Pt(B) is simply the the previous (2D6-1)
in au distance.  To avoid any unusually large distances I mandated that Star
A will always be the star with greatest luminosity between the pair.  This
convention allows the occurence of the intrastellar Alderson Pts. that were
introduced in "The Mote in God's Eye" and "The Gripping Hand" by L. Niven and
J. Pournelle.  I allowed travel time to be instantaneous.
       I enjoyed the strategic implications of the Drive; bottlenecking star
traffic at these unique points with a significant fleet allowed total control
of important trade routes, but I found that game play was not at all
enhanced.
      Note: to limit the power of this system I established a "cap" on the
Parsecs travelled by the Drive in addition to the one combat turn(30min.) of
total disorientation(Note: automated systems TL 14+(?) could undertake simple
combat actions).  
TL 10(introduction)  1 parsec
TL 11                     1 parsecs
TL 12                     2 parsecs
TL 13                     3 parsecs
TL 14                     5 parsecs
TL 15                     8 pasecs
Continued improvements following Fibonacci's sequence.  
Further play details:  Task: "discovering" an Alderson Pt.(Formidable),
Astrogation(EDU).

"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers. For he today who sheds his
blood with me shall be my brother.  Be he ne'er so vile, this day shall
gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England now abed Shall think
themselves accurs'd they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles
any speaks That fought with us..." Shakespeare The Life of Henry the Fifth.

XatoKuom@aol.com(Quigg, Scott)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:44:12 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Tasks (draft 022397)

I want to thank those of you making your constructive criticisms of the T=
asks
draft. Here's a revision of the draft relecting some of what you have sai=
d.

Tasks
	The activities which characters in Traveller adventures undertake are ca=
lled
tasks. The use of tasks allows specific activities to be resolved
consistently based on defined levels of difficulty and through the use of
appropriate skills, characteristics, and other modifiers. Players can ana=
lyze
tasks and decide on the appropriate character to undertake each, based on=
 who
is best suited to the task.
	Many potential tasks can be skipped over because their resolution would =
slow
down the situation without providing any additional drama. The game refer=
ee
is responsible for determining which situations actually call for resolut=
ion
and which can be assumed completed without difficulty or mishap.
	Dice: Tasks, like all die rolls in Traveller, are resolved using six-sid=
ed
dice. In some cases, a half-dice is called for. A half-die is a standard
six-sided die which has been color coded to distinguish it.=20

 ROLLING TASKS
	When a task becomes necessary, the referee tells the group the task, its
required skill and characteristic, and the difficulty level. The players =
in
the group discuss among themselves who will attempt the task. The player
running the character selected identifies the skill and characteristic le=
vels
and determines the target number.  He or she then personally rolls the di=
ce
and compares it with the target number. Low rolls are best. If the die ro=
ll
result is equal to or less than the target number, the task is successful.
	For example, Eneri Dinsha (ABC789 Mechanic-3) faces the following task:

	To repair a groundcar engine (2 hours).
	(Edu + Mechanic) + Tools (required) < Difficult (3D)

	The target number for the task is (8 + 3 =3D ) 11, which Eneri must roll=
 or
less on 3D. He rolls 6, which means he succeeds in accomplishing the task.

EXPRESSING TASKS
	Tasks can be expressed in a variety of ways, depending on the important
elements of the specific situation. The basic expression consists of a ta=
sk
phrase, a task statement, and any task comments. A typical task should be
stated as with these three elements on three succeeding lines.
Task Phrase:
	To accomplish an important activity (duration).

Task Statement:
	(characteristic + skill) +/- modifiers < difficulty (nD)

Task Comments:
	appropriate comments about the task.

	The Task Phrase: The Task Phrase states the specific purpose of the task=
. It
is stated as an infinitive verb phrase (i.e. "To" followed by a verb and =
any
modifying words). It effectively states what the character wants to do.
	If a task phrase requires more than one line, it is probably too complex=
 and
should be broken into two or more separate tasks.
	The Task Phrase may contain (in parentheses) the time the task generally
takes to accomplish. This information is optional, and may often be ignor=
ed.
	The Task Statement: The Task Statement shows the specific information wh=
ich
is required to resolve the task. Task resolution is based on a skill and =
its
associated characteristic, applicable modifiers, and a difficulty level.
The sum of the characteristic and skill and all applicable modifiers to t=
he
left of the < is the target number. The player must roll equal to or less
than the target number to succeed at the task.
	The Task Comments: The Task Comments include any supplementary informati=
on
about the task. It states if the task is Cooperative, Uncertain, or Oppos=
ed.
It includes any modifiers which did not fit in the Task Statement. It
includes any additional information which may help in understanding the
activity and its resolution.
	Task Difficulties: The Task Difficulty Table shows the levels of difficu=
lty
possible and the associated required die rolls.
	Half Dice. Difficult tasks call for throwing 2=BD dice. While specially =
marked
half dice are available (they have two sides marked 1, two sides marked 2=
,
and 2 sides marked 3). For an alternative, select a six-sided die of a
distinctive color and designate it as the "half die." Divide any result o=
n
that die by two, rounding up: a 1 or a 2 is a 1; a 3 or a 4 is a 2; a 5 o=
r 6
is 3.

DEFAULT SKILLS
	Sometimes characters need to accomplish tasks for which they do not have=
 the
required skill. Any character may attempt a task which specifies a Defaul=
t
Skill, even if the character himself does not have that skill.
	If using a Default Skill, the skill level used is 0 (zero) and the
associated characteristic is halved (round fractions up).
	For example, Eneri Dinsha (ABC789 Mechanic-3), while road testing the
groundcar he has repaired, hits a patch of slippery road.=20

	To avoid an accident
	(Dex + Ground Craft) < Average (3D)

	Eneri has no specific skill in Ground Craft, but it is a Default Skill. =
He
can attempt the task with Dex B halved to 6 + 0). He must roll 6 or less =
on
2D.
	On the other hand, Eneri finds a bomb planted in the ground car. Demolit=
ions
is not a Default Skill; Eneri cannot even attempt to defuse it.

SPECIAL TYPES OF TASKS
	Some tasks reflect special situations which require non-standard methods=
 of
resolution. These include Cooperative, Opposed, and Uncertain tasks, and
Actions.
	Cooperative Tasks. More than one character may actively cooperate in
performing a single Cooperative task. Each individual cooperating contrib=
utes
his (or her) skill level, while one character contributes his (or her)
characteristic.=20
	The Task Comment will say Cooperative (N Skill) indicating how many
characters may participate (N equals the numbers of characters) and that =
the
skill from each will be counted. A Task Comment may instead say Cooperati=
ve
(N Characteristic) indicating how many characters may participate (N equa=
ls
the numbers of characters) and that the characteristic from each will be
counted. If the task is successful, all participants succeed; if it fails=
,
all participants fail.

	To camouflage a vehicle from searching police.
	(Int + Camouflage) < Difficult (3D)
	Cooperative (3 Camouflage).

	Up to three participants may add their skill levels together in the
resolution of this task. The character with the highest Int would contrib=
ute
that characteristic.

	To lift a large log off a vehicle
	(Str) < Difficult (3D)
	Cooperative (5 Str)

	This task requires strength alone (no skill). Up to 5 characters can
participate.
	Opposed Tasks. Characters in direct opposition may jointly participate i=
n an
Opposed task, with the result determining who succeeds (and who fails). E=
ach
participant rolls to resolve the task, with the highest result succeeding=
.=20
	The Task Comment will say Opposed (N) indicating how many characters may
participate (N equals the numbers of characters). The highest result is
successful, provided that result is a success result; all other participa=
nts
fail (regardless of the quality of their results).

	To win a brawl.
	(Str + Brawling) < Difficult (3D)
	Opposed (4)

	Uncertain Tasks. Characters undertaking tasks for which the results are =
not
immediately clear may participate in an Uncertain task. The referee rolls
some of the dice secretly and determines whether the task is successful. =
The
result is only revealed when required by events.=20
	The Task Comment will say Uncertain (ND), when N is the number of dice t=
he
referee rolls. The remaining dice are rolled by the player. There may be
instances where the die roll result is high enough for the player to
understand that the task was successful, or is low enough to understand t=
hat
the task was a failure. In some instances, however, the results will rema=
in
uncertain.

	To bluff past a guard into a nuclear power plant.
	(Int + Fast Talk) +1 Fake ID < Difficult (3D)
	Uncertain (1D)

	The player would roll 2D and the referee would secretly roll 2D. Assumin=
g
Int 7 and Fast Talk-3 and he has the Fake ID, the required roll must be 1=
1 or
less on 3D. If the player rolls 3, he knows he must have succeeded (since
even if the hidden die roll is 6, the task would succeed); if the player
rolls 10, he knows he must have failed (since even if the hidden die roll=
 is
only 1, the task would fail). But if he rolls between 6 and 9, he cannot =
know
if he succeeded or failed until the referee indicates the results of the
third die.
	Actions. Activities which do not depend on character skills or
characteristics are called Actions instead of Tasks. An action is express=
ed
like a task, but the Task Statement is more free form. It indicates the
information which will be compared against the difficulty level.
	An action is identified by the word Action in the Task Comment.

	To determine initiative in space combat
	(number of ships + sensor rating) < Difficult (3D)
	Action. Opposed (2)

This action is used in space combat.

SPECTACULAR RESULTS
	The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
negative sense.
	Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual =
dice
roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is
spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not only succeed=
s,
it also stumbles on the master system password.
	Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual di=
ce
roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result is a
spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not only fails, it al=
so
sets off security alarms.

DURATION
	Tasks take time.
	Ignoring Duration: In many cases, the amount of time that a task takes i=
s of
no consequence and is ignored. The referee can decide that the task will =
take
a reasonable amount of time, and that dealing with duration will only slo=
w
down the action.
	Including Duration: When duration is important, the task should state ho=
w
long it will take to attempt the task (even if it is unsuccessful).
	Hasty Tasks: If the players feel that they need to accomplish a task mor=
e
quickly than normal, they can specify that they are being hasty. The time=
 to
complete the task is halved. The difficulty of the task is increased one
level (Average becomes Difficult, etc.).
	Cautious: If the players feel that they need to accomplish a task more
carefully than normal, they can specify that they are being cautious. The
time to complete the task is doubled. The difficulty of the task is decre=
ased
one level (Difficult becomes Average, etc.).
	A referee may allow a task to be declared cautious in order to decrease =
its
difficulty.

SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS
	Several aspects of tasks necessitate special attention.
	Jack of All Trades: One special skill confers on a character the ability
attempt almost any task. A person with Jack of All Trades can use that sk=
ill
in place of any other skill. The skill level used is two less than the sk=
ill
level held (but never less than 0). When Jack of All Trades is used with =
an
effective level of 0, the process is the same as for a Default skill (tha=
t
is, the associated characteristics is halved, rounded up).
	Reactions: Tasks do not take place in a vacuum without regard to the
reactions of other people. The Reaction Table shows initial and subsequen=
t
reactions that individuals may have to tasks directed at them.=20

WORKING WITH TASKS
	When working with tasks, remember the following points:
	Don=92t overdo pre-defined tasks. Published tasks are suggestions which =
may
need to be modified for specific situations. The goal is always to keep t=
he
game moving; don=92t be a slave to the rules.
	The Role Of The Referee: The referee retains (and must always be aware o=
f) a
responsibility to administer the task system in a way that produces reali=
stic
resolutions. The referee can impose results and modifiers, bring in or ap=
ply
other skills or characteristics, or change difficulty levels in order to =
make
the resolution of tasks.=20

CREATING TASKS.
	The referee in Traveller is often called upon to create tasks as situati=
ons
arise. The process for creating tasks is simple and straightforward.
	1. Express the Task Phrase. State specifically and clearly the action th=
at
the players want to perform. The phrase should be no more than one line, =
and
should encompass one specific action.
	If time is important, the time required to attempt the task should be
stated. This may be no time at all, or may be irrelevant (in which case, =
time
is ignored), or it may range from 10 minutes to several hours. Typically,=
 one
task will take no more than a day.
	2. Express the Task Statement. Determine the skill required to perform t=
he
task, and state the characteristic associated with that skill in this for=
m:
(characteristic + skill).
	Determine any modifiers which may apply to the task (such as darkness,
weather, computer model). Positive modifiers increase the chances of succ=
ess;
negative numbers decrease the chance of success. It is possible for both
positive and negative modifiers to be stated. If a significant number of
modifiers are to be stated, shift them to the Task Comments.
	Determine the difficulty level of the task. Using the Task Difficulty Ta=
ble,
state the difficulty level of the task. Be sure to include the number of =
dice
to be thrown in parentheses.
Any additional information about the task should be placed in the comment=
s.
State if the task is Cooperative, Opposed, or Uncertain. Include any
additional modifiers which did not fit in the Task Statement.
	3. Express The Task Comments. Indicate if the task is Cooperative, Oppos=
ed,
or Uncertain. Indicate if the task is an Action. Indicate any additional
modifiers which did not fit on the Task Statement line.

TASKS IN ACTION
The crew of Khusgurlu consists of=20
Pilot/Astrogator Gasiiri (Pilot-3, Astrogation-3)
Engineer Smith (Engineer-2,=20
Steward Denisha (

conventional task.
duration
cooperative
opposed
uncertain
spectacular


 TASK LIBRARY
This Task Library provides 60 basic tasks which are commonly encountered.
They provide a basis from which referees can administer adventures.

To estimate a physical characteristic
To estimate a mental characteristic
To estimate Social Standing
To estimate any UPP characteristic
To estimate a skill level by observation
To gain useful information from a conversation
To negotiate to gain cooperation
To evaluate susceptibility to bribery
To bribe
To gain useful information from an interrogation
To prepare a disguise for impersonation
To bargain for goods
To persuade=20


=20
=20
TASK PHRASE
	To accomplish an important activity (duration).

TASK STATEMENT
	(characteristic + skill) +/- modifiers < difficulty (nD)

TASK COMMENTS
	appropriate comments about the task.

	Default Skill Tasks: A character may try a task with a Default Skill, ev=
en
if the character does not have that skill. Skill level used is 0 (zero) a=
nd
the associated characteristic is halved (round fractions up).
	Cooperative Tasks. More than one character may participate in a Cooperat=
ive
task. Each individual contributes his skill level, while one contributes =
his
characteristic. Comment says Cooperative (N Skill) or (N Characteristic).
	Opposed Tasks. Characters in direct opposition may try an Opposed task; =
the
result determining who succeeds (and who fails). Each rolls to resolve th=
e
task; the highest result succeeding. Comment will say Opposed (N)
	Uncertain Tasks. Characters may try tasks with results which are not cle=
ar.
Referee rolls some of the dice secretly and determines whether the task i=
s
successful. The result is only revealed when required by events. Comment =
says
Uncertain (ND): N is the number of dice the referee rolls.=20
	Actions. Activities which do not depend on character skills or
characteristics are called Actions instead of Tasks. An action is express=
ed
like a task, but the Task Statement is more free form. It indicates the
information which will be compared against the difficulty level. An actio=
n is
identified by the word Action in the Task Comment.
	Spectacular Success. If the actual dice roll includes 3 ones (not possib=
le
on 2D) result is spectacular success.
	Spectacular Failure. If the actual dice roll includes 3 sixes (not possi=
ble
on 2D), result is spectacular failure.
	Hasty Tasks: If players need to work more quickly than normal, they can
specify hasty. Time is halved. Difficulty is increased one level (Average
becomes Difficult, etc.).
	Cautious: If the players need to work more carefully, they can specify
cautious. Time is doubled. Difficulty is decreased one level (Difficult
becomes Average, etc.).

REACTIONS
	Die	Initial	Subsequent
	1	Friendship (-4)	 -2 levels
	2	Total Co-op (-3)	 -2 levels
	3	Active Co-op (-2)	 -1 level
	4	Active Co-op (-2)	 -1 level
	5	Passive Co-op (-1)	 -1 level
	6	Passive Co-op (-1)	 -1 level
	7	Neutral	no change
	8	Passive Unco-op (+1)	+1 level
	9	Passive Unco-op (+1)	+1 level
	10	Active Unco-op (+2)	+1 level
	11	Active Unco-op (+2)	+1 level
	12	Violent Unco-op (+3)	+2 levels
	13	Enmity (+4)	+2 levels
Throw on this table (on the initial column) when first encountering an NP=
C.
Throw once on the subsequent column once (but no earlier than the next we=
ek).
DM (Initial): -2 if a veteran of the same service. -1 attendees of the sa=
me
school.
DM (Subsequent): Apply the DM from the initial reaction.
=20
CERTAINTY LEVELS
	Die	Information Dependability
	2	Complete Truth. NPC statements are objective.
	3	Complete Truth. NPC statements are objective.
	4	Partial Truth. NPC statements are opinion.
	5	Partial Truth. NPC statements are opinion.
	6	Partial Truth. NPC statements are opinion.
	7	Partial Truth. NPC statements are opinion.
	8	Partial Truth. NPC statements are opinion.
	9	No Truth. NPC statements are exaggerated.
	10	No Truth. NPC statements are exaggerated.
	11	No Truth. NPC statements are exaggerated.
	12	Lies. NPC statements are deliberate mistruth.
	13	Lies. NPC statements are deliberate mistruth.
Roll on this table for the level of certainty for information.
DM: Use the DM from the NPC reaction.

TASK DIFFICULTIES
Difficulty	Dice	Typical	Expert
Level	Code	Success	Success
	Easy	auto	100%	100%
	Average	2D	 86%	100%
	Difficult	2=BDD	 61%	100%
	Formidable	3D	 38%	100%
	Staggering	4D	 10%	 92%
	Impossible	5D	   2%	 61%
If an Easy task is attempted using a default skill, the Dice Code is 1D.
Typical success assumes a characteristic of 7 and a skill of 3. Expert
Success assumes a characteristic of 12 and a skill of 7.

CHANCE OF SUCCESS
		Avg	Diff	For	Sta	Imp
Roll		2D	2.5D	3D	4D	5D=20
	2	0.8	-	-	-	-
	3	3.2	0.3	0.1	-	-=20
	4	7.9	1.5	0.6	0.02	-=20
	5	15.9	4.6	1.9	0.1	0.004=20
	6	27.8	10.2	4.6	0.5	0.02=20
	7	44.4	18.8	9.2	1.2	0.1=20
	8	60.3	31.2	16.6	2.8	0.3=20
	9	74.6	46.0	26.5	5.6	0.8=20
	10	86.5	61.4	38.4	10.0	1.7=20
	11	95.2	75.0	51.5	16.3	3.4=20
	12	100.0	86.1	64.8	24.5	6.0=20
	13		94.1	76.8	34.6	10.1=20
	14		98.5	86.1	45.8	15.6=20
	15		100.0	92.7	57.4	22.8=20
	16			96.9	68.4	31.4=20
	17			99.2	78.2	41.2=20
	18			100.0	86.1	51.5=20
	19				92.0	61.8=20
	20				95.8	71.3=20
	21				98.1	79.7=20
	22				99.4	86.4=20
	23				99.9	91.6=20
	24				100.0	95.2=20
	25					97.5=20
	26					98.9=20
	27					99.6=20
	28					99.9=20
	29					100.0=20
	30					100.0=20
This table shows the percentage chance of success for each difficulty lev=
el
and target number.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #981
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 24 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 982



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Deckplan Drawers
Re: Fwd: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: T4 task system
Vilani Cuisine!
Re: Spectacular Results (new)
Messing with Tasks
Re: Dust/paint in vacuum
Re: First Survey Subsector Names
Re: THUDDD Runners-up!
Anti-Hijack Systems
Re: T4 task system (rebuttal)
Re: T4 task system
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: Half-dice and attributes
Re: T4 task system
Re: Honesty and the Half-Die
Crew discrepancies - SSDS v QSDS
Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:06:42 -0600
From: Hugh Johnson <ratling@csrlink.net>
Subject: Deckplan Drawers

Hello!
	Now that I'm beginning to get the hang of how this computer (or what I
once called a giant paperweight) works, I was wondering what type of
programs others used to draw their starship deckplans.  Feel free to e-mail
me privately if no one else is interested in this information.  Thanks for
any information.  Who knows maybe in a few months I might even be able to
raise my skill to computer-1. 

Hugh Johnson    ratling@csrlink.net   <:8}}}---

"Anything that happens, happens.  Anything that, in happening, causes
something else to happen, causes something else to happen.  Anything that,
in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.  It doesn't
necessarily do it in chronological order, though."      -- Douglas Adams,
Mostly Harmless

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:39:16 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek

odysseus@novia.net writes:

>       Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Wars Characters
>       Would Kick Butt in the Star Trek Universe

   Oh yeah?  Well here are the Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Trek
Characters Would Kick Butt in the Star Wars Universe

10) Stormtroopers have a worse aim than Starfleet Security personnel,
and die in larger quanities.

9)  The Enterprise can time travel back to the era when Darth Vader and
the Emperor were nobodies, kill them, and avoid this whole evil Galactic
Empire business in the first place.

8)  Wesley Crusher, boy genius. 'Nough said.

7)  It only takes one missile in Star Trek to cause a star to nova and
wipe out an entire solar system, but the Galactic Empire has to hire a
crew of thousands and build a weapons platform the size of a moon to
blow up one measley little planet.

6)  Captain Kirk might sleep with almost everything wearing a skirt, but
at least he doesn't almost commit incest with his sister.

5)  Bat'telhs are more fun than lightsabers--the blood of your enemies
gleams on the blade while you observe the firelight of your enemies'
burning homes.

4)  You call R2-D2 and C-3PO droids?  Ha!  Any one of the female robots
in classic Trek would make a better traveling companion, and for the
females in the crowd, Data can out perform any Star Wars robots, both in
and out of bed.

3)  Jem 'Hedar warriors would not be defeated by a bunch of teddy bears
with rocks and spears.

2)  So maybe Han Solo out flies Captain Picard, but at least Picard can
find the homeworld of Humanity on a map.

1)  T'Pau could kick the Emperor's butt in a best of three falls iron
cage grudge match.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 07:50:52 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

Mused wrote:
> 
> CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> > SPECTACULAR RESULTS (NEW)
> >         The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
> > negative sense.
> >         Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
> > roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is
> > spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not only succeeds,
> > it also stumbles on the master system password.
> >         Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
> > roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result is a
> > spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not only fails, it also
> > sets off security alarms.
> 
> Just one thing, 6D task: rolls are 1,1,1,6,6,6

That's simple!

If you GOT the targetnumber or less, this will be a spectacular success.
If you have MORE than the TN, then it's a spectacular failure.

Do you consider this ok?

Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:57:40 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: Re: T4 task system

I'm glad to see the task system being reconsidered; the one published in T4
is broken. I tried a few variants in my campaign, and the one I found most
fun and reasonable was Ken Bearden's. It's not perfect, I don't like the
math and the use of 1/2 dice, but overall I found it to give the most
balanced and playable results. I urge people to actually play using the
variant rules; I didn't like Kenneth's until I actually tried using it.

CardSharks@aol.com writes:

>So I took four typical people and looked at how they would fare under your
>system:

>Dullard has stat-4 and skill-1. Typical has stat-7 and skill-3. Expert has
>stat-12 and skill-7. Superman has stat-15 and skill-12.

Unfortunately these characters are not all that "typical"; their attributes
and skills all increase in tandem. True, in such a case the attribute +
skill method and (attribute/2) + (skill*2) method will give similar
results, but since this is not the situation where the existing task system
is broken they should give similar results. The trouble is that, using the
published character generation rules, characters will typically have at
least 1 low and 1 high attribute, a few high skills, and lots of skills at
1 or 2. This is the typical case, and this is where the attribute + skill
method breaks down. Lets look at a few characters who really are more
typical, given the existing character generation sequence:

               Attr.  Skill    T4   KB
Hot shot rookie   12      1    13    8
Aging master       6      6    12   15
Typical Employee   7      2     9    8

T4 is the target number using the T4 task system, KB is using Ken
Bearden's. The hot shot has twice as much 'natural talent' as the old
master, but the master has *six times* the experience. In my mind there
should be no contest, the master should wipe the floor with the young punk.
But the T4 system overvalues attributes so much, it says the kid is better.
This is because the attribute and skill systems work on different scales;
an attribute of 7 is average and a skill of 1 is average (the most common
skill level of my players' is 1, and it's enough to get you hired for
starship crew). Simply adding the two overvalues attributes far out of
proportion; the (attribute/2) + (skill*2) method effectively normalizes the
two scales.

Moreover, in T4 the hot shot is a hot shot in EVERYTHING. Since there are
fewer attributes which get applied to lots of skills, characters become
defined by their attributes and not their skills. Is it obvious that an
expert (for example) Historian will also be the best astrogator and
electronics technician? Yet this is how the T4 task system works. In the
KBv1.1 system attributes and skills are more balanced; being good in one
Int-based skill does not automatically make you good in another (though it
helps). The first thing I noticed when I used the KB system in my campaign
was that the characters were a lot more individual; they could specialize
in what they did best. For example, one of my players rolled a 4 Dex but
got Pilot-5 skill. With the T4 task system this character was essentially
useless, other characters with Pilot-1 had higher target numbers. But with
Kenneth's task system this character was suddenly the best pilot. He was
still bad in other tasks but at least he had one defining characteristic
that made him useful and fun to play. The player loved this and so did I;
with the T4 task system the high-attribute characters were demigods who
could do anything and everyone else was superfluous. With the KB system
everyone could be a hero in their own specialties, the high-attribute
characters just had more specialties. This effect was not evident until I
actually played using the KB system and is the most important reason I
switched to it. That's why I encourage people to actually try and variant
in real play settings before they decide.

Since attributues and skills work on different scales it's just not
reasonable to simply add them together. The KBv1.1 system has much more
variety; a character can be expert in one skill and bad in another one
based on the same attribute. This is much more realistic and fun to play.
Whatever task system you decide on should have the same feature, and I felt
Kenneth's required the fewest changes to the rules.

Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 07:23:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: Vilani Cuisine!

>> Given >that the Rat Things are in a situation analogous to the
>> proto-Vilani, a certain >amount of cannibalism occurs.
> Aie, THE THREAD THAT WOULD NOT DIE!
    Even worse!  In the M0 book, in the portion on the Vilani...  There is now
an OFFICIAL STATEMENT about Vilani cuisine!  It's CANON FOLKS!!!  LOL!

    Oh, and for those who do not know yet... Space: Above and Beyond has been
picked up by the Sci Fi Channel and will be premering some time next years.
No, I'm not a fan, but I know a bunch of people on this list are and I just
heard it figured to pass it along.

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:52:07 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Spectacular Results (new)

> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
> From CardSharks@aol.com

[Old New System Snipped]

> SPECTACULAR RESULTS (NEW)
>         The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
> negative sense.
>         Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
> roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is
> spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not only succeeds,
> it also stumbles on the master system password.
>         Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
> roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result is a
> spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not only fails, it also
> sets off security alarms.
> 
> This gives 0.46% chance of spectacular failure and an equal chance of
> spectacular success (and is independent of difficulty), but avoids giving a
> spectacular for average or less difficulty.
> 
> Marc

	This is better than the previous proposal but is not yet right.
The Spectacular Failure System seems about right however the Spectacular
Success System is broken.  As you roll more dice the odds of getting 3
ones goes up.  Therefore under this system you would have a greater
chance of a Spectacular Success at an Impossible Task than you would at
a Difficult Task, and this is _wrong_.  I am not sure how to fix this
however.

	I would also like to suggest the adoption, or at least the optional
adoption of the 2X Skill and 0.5 x Attribute System for Task Rolls.  I
think that T4's current task system (like TNE's) is _wrong_ because
training is more important than natural talent and not the reverse.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:02:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Messing with Tasks

     I like what I see so far of the new and improved tasks system (022397
draft) and am glad to see the standardized MT-type format make a come-back.  A
couple observations:
     1) With the new (KB-ized) difficulty levels, most of the example task
difficulties are now wrong!
     2) It's possible to succeed at some of the harder-difficulty tasks
(Form= 18; Stag= 23,24; Imp= 28,29,30) while also achieving a Spectacular
Failure.  How should such tasks be handled?  Does the SpecFail take precedence
over the Success?  (this seems reasonable, and ensures there is no "Sure Thing"
on such tasks).  This should be stated explicity one way or the other.

Comments of my own:
     While Kenneth has obviously succeeded in convincing MM, as well as me, of
the statistical superiority of his dice progression, I'm still sorry to see
that half-die on the table, especially since (as the example tasks showed)
Difficult is by far the most commonly-assigned task difficulty.  Is there
REALLY no way to stick to whole-dice, remain relatively close to the current
system, and get a desirable probability spread?
     As for the other step of KBv1.1, it seems that for the present MM is
sticking with the original T4 system, which I can easily understand, since the
added math step of the KB system seems like an unnecessary hassle, but the more
I think about it, the more I become convinced that having skills outweigh
attributes on a point-for-point basis is not only a matter of taste, but is
actually essential to the feel and balance of the game.  At very least I think
this should be included in a parenthetical note as an Optional Rule-- don't
require the extra step for refs who don't care, but allow it for those who do.
     Aside from that I think the new system is a very good thing and if
(important if!) it is applied consistently to tasks throughout the rest of the
rulebook, it will go a long way towards making T4.1 actually BE the game that a
lot of us were hoping and expecting that T4 would be.

Trent Smith  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:57:34 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Dust/paint in vacuum

>This should work fine.. not however that the smoke will spread out faster,
>and thin faster than in an atmosphere.  Using paint grenades, while messy,
>could disable boarders.  Cans of spray-paint could also work.

Smoke and paint droplets in vacuum would behave as freemoving particles.
Each droplet/particle would move in a straight line and then bounce or
cling. I'd say it woyld be useless except to aim at somebody like a
spraycan. Look at the dust kicked up by NASA guys fooling around on the
moon, the dust settles extremely fast onto the ground despite the 1/6 G.
This is because each dust particle follows is free flying without air drag.

Dust/paint with atmos in 0-G on the other hand seems a very good idea.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:16:10 +0800
From: crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew)
Subject: Re: First Survey Subsector Names

Greetings,

>I spent some time today (before putting up molding in a room we have been
>working on for the past six weekends!) looking up subsector names for the
>sectors in Milieu Zero and First Survey. I was able to get names for
>Corridor, Vland, Lishun, Core and Massilia. So far I have not been able
>to find names for the subsectors in Antares, Gushemege, Dagudashaag,
>Fornast (even though this is a "ref's sector", I'd like to get the old
>"official" names), Ilelish, Zarushagar, Delphi (same as Fornast, still
>would like to get the names).
>

You can probably find all of the subsector names for known space at Peter
Keel's site at

http://www.lugs.ch/~killer/traveller/

which has the best library of sector and subsector names I've found, but
not all the subsectors have UWPs.

For the archive of old sectors (which will have subsector names as well)
which includes UWPs try Joe Heck's site at:

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/

and go into the 'Missouri Archives' in the 'General' folder.  You could
spend days scrabbling round in that musty archive!  It only covers 'Atlas
of the Imperium' (c1100) though...

David Crew
crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:45:09 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Idiot/Savant <idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: THUDDD Runners-up!

Mused <marz@hotstar.net> objected vociferously to my comments on the
"Rhodes Yards Vicuna" Far-Trader, specifically:

> Another minimal-crew job which neglects essential positions (such as
>a medic); also saves crew by not having any sensors - which means it
>_will_not_ be considered flightworthy by Imperial Authorities.
>Economic assessment is somewhat overenthusiastic, but even when
>corrected this ship still makes a tidy on-paper profit, and will make
>even more with speculation.

His rebuttal:
> 1) it has minimal sensors (effective range of zero)

 OK, this wasn't exactly clear. Apologies.

> 2) how is economic assesment overenthusiastic?

 Your annual cost total neglected to take the monthly payments into
account, which ment that your annual profit was overestimated by about
2750 KCr. Not that this mattered much - I assessed commercial viability on
"real" economic performance, and since this vessel actually made a profit
after everything was taken into account (and without speculation), it did
pretty well.

> 3) a 200 ton ship can be used by two crew (as per starships)

 Yes, for "routine operations". Is carrying passangers a "routine
operation", or does the Imperial Ministry of Commerce demand more than a
skeleton crew when people's lives are on the line?

> 4) the steward is also a medic, if need be

 Yes. But it would have been nice if your blurb had said so, and better if
it had included a full crew manifest in addition to its "recommended"
levels.

 In retrospect, my comments may have been a little harsh sometimes. OTOH,
looking at the averages, it seems I was one of the more merciful voters.

- --
Idiot/Savant			idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz
Betray your friends; Crush your enemies; 
Control the world; Drink some coffee

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:47:03 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Anti-Hijack Systems

rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough) said (about "A long day's journey..."):

>>... files, reinstall the anti-hijack program and activate it, setting it on
>>lethal; it handily slaughtered all non-crew-members on board ...
>I have seen similar scenarios in other Traveller campaigns. My question has
>always been... HOW? The anti-hijack program is a piece of computer
>software, how exactly is it supposed to kill people?

Depends what it's hooked up to: IIRC CT Adventure 1 (Kinunir) had a laser
built into each hatch which could cut intruders to pieces?

And in my game the players tend to rig up a few Claymore mines, sleep gas
and (for the finale) the power plant overload circuit, to the anti-hijack
system. Nothing's gone wrong... yet. Just waiting for that little
short-circuit or logic fault in the computer. :-)

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 03:03:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system (rebuttal)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 97-02-22 07:41:23 EST, you write:
>> > >        1)  Use the new target number calculation (half stat, twice
>skill)
>>  > >

>So I took four typical people and looked at how they would fare under your
>system:

>Dullard has stat-4 and skill-1. Typical has stat-7 and skill-3. Expert has
>stat-12 and skill-7. Superman has stat-15 and skill-12.
>Dullard's target number is 2+2= 4 (as now it would be 5).

>Typical's target number is 3 1/2 + 6 = 10. (As now it would be 7+3 = 10)
>Expert's target number is 6 + 14 = 20. (as now it would be 12+7= 19)
>Superman's target number is 7 1/2 + 24 = 32. (as now it would be 15+12= 27)

>The results aren't that much different that we see for the system as now.
>Results using Default skills would be lower than now, since 0 doubled is
>still zero.

Sure, there are cases where the two system are not different.  There are
also many cases where the results are very different.  Limiting skills to
1-6 and stats to 1-12 (the normal range for most PCs) we can easily have
both character A (Stat-6 Skill-5) and character B (Stat-11 Skill-1) in the
same game.  Currently A has a TN of 11 & B has a TN of 12.  This is IMHO
wrong.  A skill level of 5 should mean more than this.  Under Ken's system
A would have a TN of 13 and B would have a TN of 7.  This is a huge change
and is one of the primary reasons for using Ken's system. 

In short, Ken's system of 1/2 stat + 2x skill is specifically designed
mostly to make sure high skill low-moderate stat characters (stats of say
5-8) are not outclassed by skill level 1 & 2 characters with high stats
(10+)

Also, currently having an Education of 12+ is easy if the PC goes to
college and having a high Int is easy if you roll well when mustering out. 
There are going to be a lot of high stat character I think the current
system is far to easy because if you have a stat of 10+ all skill rolls
are pretty easy even if you only have a skill of 1 or 2.  As I see it,
Staggering and Impossible tasks should not be quite so easy for characters
a character with a 11 or 12 stat and a 1 or 2 skill. 

Also, I looked at your latest revision ad I still don't like 1/2 dice and
think that 5D for impossible tasks devalues impossible tasks.  If someone
is an top-flight expert they may well have a TN of 17 or 18.  I don't like
the idea of any possible PCs having a 40-50% chance to perform an
Impossible task.  This makes Impossible Tasks seem to easy and takes much
of the challenge out of the game. 

No 1/2 dice and 6D Impossible tasks is a better solution.   


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 03:54:19 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

> Whatever task system you decide on should have the same feature, and I felt
> Kenneth's required the fewest changes to the rules.


Nice points Richard.  I'm sitting around trying to explain all this 
in my reply to Marc when I read your post.

I gotta tell ya.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:16:05 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

Frankly, I still like my SF technique.  The GM picks up any sixes rolled
and rolls them again.  Any sixes on the second roll are increasing levels
of failure.  Yes, these levels are GM determined, and I like it that way.

When a SF is rolled in my game, I use the old mishap chart from the 
MT Referee's Guide.

When a SF is rolled, I decide (or have the player random roll) how 
many dice the player should roll on the mishap chart based on the 
situation.

Then, he rolls, and I judge how bad the SF was based on the outcome 
on the mishap chart.

Works good for my game.  If Marc's putting in the other old MT 
stuff, maybe he should put in the mishap table as well.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 03:54:21 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Half-dice and attributes

> As for task systems, I don't mean to personally slam Ken, as he's a good guy
> and I enjoy reading his posts. But I see absolutlely no inherent value in
> using his system over the one Marc has proposed. The target numbers are not
> different enough to make any difference, and all that's added is another
> calculation when making a character

The target numbers were not broken in the T4 rules.  KBv1.1 was 
designed to give comprobable target numbers BUT to give more weight 
to a character's skill level.

It is not the target number I had a problem with.  It's the fact that 
one's attribute (read untrained, natural ability) is more important 
to a character's success than his skill level (read training).

AND it was designed to fix, with minimal changes to the offical 
rules, the problem with Staggering and Impossible tasks being too 
easy.

Actually, I wanted the target numbers to be about the same as they 
were in T4, and that's about where they are.

Skill just counts for more in KBv1.1, as it should.

Kenneth. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:16:02 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

> Marc,
> 
> I'm not going to argue *for* Ken's plan..he can do that without my help.
> <g>

So, you're saying I'm opinionated?

Hmpf.


> Either way, though, I think most of the folks discussing tasks on the list
> would like to see the the balance in target numbers shift from mostly
> Characteristics to more Skills..and less
> Characteristics. 

Yes-sir-re-bob.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 03:54:20 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Honesty and the Half-Die

> >Kenneth has a good fix, but the prob with 0.5D6 is player honesty, the
> problem >being what die is the half one. And the continuous explaining of
> what round up >means (sorry if that sounds fecicious but I am not kidding)
> 
> 
> There's an easy solution; buy some d3's! I have three of them and plan to
> get more. They are available through most distributors. Wargames West
> carries them if nothing else.

Or you can have each player designate a different colored D6 at the 
start of the game to always be his D3.

As far as rounding up goes, I don't see how this could be a problem.  
Rounding up means that you round up to the next whole number for 0.5 
and above.  0.4 fractions are dropped to the next lower whole number.

If this is still a problem for you and your players, then write this 
on a sheet of paper and hand it out--

D6		D3
1		1
2		1
3		2
4		2
5		3	
6		3

Your players that have trouble rounding (and being honest) can look 
at their designated colored die, then look at this chart and know 
what they've rolled.

I'm sure that it will only take a few times before they need to look 
at this paper if they can't round up a D6 to a D3 on the first try.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 23:03:32 
From: jamesd@spirit.com.au (James Dempsey)
Subject: Crew discrepancies - SSDS v QSDS

Looking over the designs submitted for the first THUDD competitiion
(including mine), I have noticed something of a discrepancy in the
crew rules - specifically the steward and medic types.

QSDS (T4 p95) says that 1 Steward and 1 Medic are required if there is
a single high passenger. 
Stewards: 1 steward per 8 high psg/cmd crew, and 1 steward per 50 mid 
psg/other crew. Fractions rounded UP.
Medics: 1 medic per 120 people, and 1 medic per 20 low berths. No
rounding mentioned.

SSDS says that the requirement is rounded down, unless it is less than 1,
when it  becomes part of the duties of the Misc crewmember, if any. So 1
high passenger, no command and no mid passengers do not need a steward,
or a medic.

The other problem is that the steward requirement for mid psg is per 100
in SSDS, and per 50 in QSDS.

The question is - which one is right, or have I missed something?

Thanks,
James Dempsey
- ---------------------------------------------
 email: jamesd@spirit.com.au
 homepage: http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 03:54:17 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

>    No offense to Kenneth, but it just has to be said....
> 
>    I've seen a number of people here propose any number of fixes to the
> T4 system, and I have come to a conclusion: most Traveller players and
> referees are totally fixated on using D6 (and its bastard cousin, D3). 
> So much so, they would rather come up with complicated formulas, native
> ritual dances, or semi-mystical chant spells so that they can use D6s
> instead of some other form of dice.
> 
>    Why?  Is there something inherantly evil about D10s and D20s that

[snip]

>    I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
> why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
> D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
> please explain it to me?

It is hard to say this to someone who doesn't get it Harold, but here 
it is.  Traveller IS D6's just like D&d is D20's.

When TNE came out and used, gag, D20's, I spent months converting the 
TNE task system to D6's.

Why?  Because it is just not Traveller without them.

Now, I'd feel the same way if somebody tried to change D&D to a D6 or 
percentile system.

And that's the best way I can explain it to you.  D6's are Traveller.

I wouln't have it any other way.

Apparently, many others wouldn't have it any other way either.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:16:04 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

> Yep, they do that.  They also keep the top end lower unless you go to a
> non-symetrical increase like your 1.5/2/2.5/3/4/5 method.  I don't like
> non-symetrical..too hard to remember in the heat of play. 

That's what I thought at first too, but it's really not a problem at 
all.  I bet you already have it memorized.  I know I do.

The same goes for the target number calculation.  The player gets 
hit.  He takes his damage.  Then when he attempts another task, it is 
easy to double the skill again and add it to half the new, lowered 
attribute.

Try it.  Once you've done it a few times, you'll find that it is not 
hard at all.


> Right!  Try adding 2 for each skill gain rather than 1.  I guess everyody
> *knows* I like a random (1d3) increase + aptitude, so I won't detail that
> again. <g>
> 
> Here's some more ideas, I don't necesserily subscribe to them, but..
> 

> New Skill Theory:  people develop basic competence in a new skill fairly
> quickly, but it takes years to become a master.

I like this.  I''m playing with this idea in my T4 XP fix.


> One more thing!  Change the name of the IMPOSSIBLE task to something else. 
> It's really giving some of our more literal GM's and players a problem.  I
> can live with it, but I'd prefer impossible to mean exactly that...call it
> ICREDIBLE or something.

I have no problem with the difficulty being called Impossible, but 
then again, Incredible is fine too.

We all know, or should know, that the Impossible category means 
really, really, #$@^&! hard--not a 0.00% chance of accomplishing the 
task.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #982
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 24 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 983



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4 task system
Re: T4 task system
Marc's Task System
Re: Tasks (draft 022397)
Re: Plastic Batteries  in Traveller
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
micro survey
RE:New T4 Task system
Hi-G escape boats?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:16:03 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

. I urge people to actually play using the
> variant rules; I didn't like Kenneth's until I actually tried using it.

Thanks for saying this, Richard.  I think that KBv1.1 sounds harder 
than it is.

I've been using it for about 4 months now, and my game is cruising 
along at a good clip.  We're not having any trouble with the 1/2 die 
or the math.

If I could improve KBv1.1, I would remove the 1/2 die and change the 
calculation to simple addition like T4 is originally.

As it stands, though, they (the simple multiplication/division and 
1/2 die) are a necessary evil unless a totally new task system is 
developed.

 The first thing I noticed when I used the KB system in my campaign
> was that the characters were a lot more individual; they could specialize
> in what they did best. For example, one of my players rolled a 4 Dex but
> got Pilot-5 skill. With the T4 task system this character was essentially
> useless, other characters with Pilot-1 had higher target numbers. But with
> Kenneth's task system this character was suddenly the best pilot. He was
> still bad in other tasks but at least he had one defining characteristic
> that made him useful and fun to play. 

Ya know, that Pilot-5 skill (almost twice the skill of a liscensed 
doctor) should count for something.  KBv1.1 is doing its job making 
skills important again.

. This effect was not evident until I
> actually played using the KB system and is the most important reason I
> switched to it. That's why I encourage people to actually try and variant
> in real play settings before they decide.

Please, don't send money...try the system!

> Since attributues and skills work on different scales it's just not
> reasonable to simply add them together. The KBv1.1 system has much more
> variety; a character can be expert in one skill and bad in another one
> based on the same attribute. This is much more realistic and fun to play.
> Whatever task system you decide on should have the same feature, and I felt
> Kenneth's required the fewest changes to the rules.

Thanks for the glowing review, Richard.

Kenneth.

PS  Maybe we should start our own Traveller company <g>.  I design 
mechanics. We'll get Glenn Grant to help with his hit location chart 
(which is incredible, by the way).  Glenn Hoppe will be our resident 
jump space guru.  Joe Walsh can be our liason.  Eris will be our 
heretic.  Suz Dollar can run our communications.  And you--you'll be 
our PR guy.

Whataya think?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 03:54:18 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: T4 task system

> In a message dated 97-02-22 07:41:23 EST, you write:

> So I took four typical people and looked at how they would fare under yo=
ur
> system:
> 
> Dullard has stat-4 and skill-1. Typical has stat-7 and skill-3. Expert h=
as
> stat-12 and skill-7. Superman has stat-15 and skill-12.


OK, Marc, let me lay a few assumptions on you.  

1) First, the KBv1.1 task system was designed to fix the problems in 
the basic T4 task system as it was written in the book--not re-create 
a task system. 

I wanted to stay as close as possible to the system as 
written and still fix the problems of having the attribute more 
important than the stat (The Pilot-1, Dex-10--Pilot-4, Dex-6 problem) 
and the problem of having Staggering and Impossible tasks too easy to 
obtain (thus the change in dice to 4D and 5D for those two 
categories).

My question here is--are you wanting to change the whole task system 
or stay close to the original T4 system as written?

If the latter, then I advocate my system because it is the best way 
that I have found (and I've looked at a lot of ways) to fix the T4 
system and have the system still recognizable as the T4 system.  It 
takes a minimum of steps with my system, as I have already explained 
in earlier posts, to fix what is broken in T4.

If you are suggesting that a new system is introduced all together, 
then KBv1.1 is not appropriate.  It wasn't designed to be a new task 
system, like some others that have been posted here on the TML.  It 
is only a fix to T4.

If I had my rathers, I'd get rid of the 1/2 die all together.  And, 
although my target number calculation is relativly easy (double one, 
half another), it is not as smooth as just adding two numbers 
together like the T4 system.

What I would really like is to see a system that only uses whole dice 
on the difficulty categories and has an easy target number 
calculation.  

Your T4 fix with whole dice does this, but as I have stated, if you 
run the numbers you will see that the curve is too steep for the low 
level skills.  In order to use this system, we are going to have to 
find a way to boost the lower target numbers up so that a character 
has a decent chance of doing something.

Also, the attribute vs stat problem needs to be addressed, and this 
needs to be addressed in such a way that target number calculation is 
easy to calculate even after the character is wounded.

Just adding attribute and stat gives too much weight to the 
attribute.  Although the attribute should have a big impact on the 
target number calculation, it shouldn't be bigger than the effect 
skill level has on the number.



2)  Another assumption.  Your Superhuman character had a skill level 
of 12.  I don't see skills getting that high, do you?  I see them 
going to 7, maybe 8, before the character is too old to adventure.

Maybe this comes from the T4 XP system, which I think is broken too.

Before I can advocate a system, I need to know where your thinking is 
on this.  Are level 12 skills obtainable?  

Since much of T4 is based on CT--in fact, I consider T4  as CT with a 
few tweaks--I assumed in designing KBv1.1 that skill levels will be 
valued at about the same as they were in CT (a character just had 
more of them, but the skill levels were still the same value).

You would never see a level 12 skill in CT.  And, under the skills 
section, it still says that a doctor is a level-3 skill.  Judging by 
this (and other numerous CT-T4 comparisons), level 12 skills should 
not be possible in T4 either.



3)  Your original post to me compared target numbers, but target 
numbers are not what is broken in T4.  In fact, I wanted my numbers 
from KBv1.1 to be very close to the target numbers I would get if I 
used T4 as is.  KBv1.1 does that.  

The problem is not the target 
number, its that attributes are weighted much more than skills.  
KBv1.1 levels the field between the two.



>Where the system might make a difference is 

With that out of the way, let's talk about KBv1.1.

Again, we assume that:
	1) We want to stay as close to the T4 system as possible but still 
	fix the attributes-weighted-more-than-skills problem and the 
	Staggering/Impossible-tasks-are-too-easy problem.

	2) We want an easy to calculate target number.

	3) Skills will top out at 6, 7, or 8

How does my system fix the problems listed in point number one above?

	Here's the old Pilot example:

	Jane has Pilot-1, a beginner, but a natural ability, Dex-10.
	Paule has Pilot-4, a professional with a great deal of skill, but 
	natural ability of about average, Dex-6.

	Under T4 as written, Janes target number is 1, and Paule's target 
	number is 10. 

 Jane's natural ability has given her, a beginner,  a better success 
at piloting than a professional with great skill.  

	Under KBv1.1, this problem is fixed.  Jane's target number is 7 
	whereas Paule's target number is 11.

Skill has overcome raw, untrained, natural ability.  First problem 
(with T4) solved.

OK, now for the second problem--the difficulty percentages.  After 
running the numbers, I saw that most of the categories were 
fine.  The only problem came in when a character needs to make a 
Staggering or Impossible throw.  I'll use the Impossible category for 
an example below.

	Ulric has Computer-4 and EDU-9.

T4							KBv1.1
Target Number:  13				Target Number:  13
Impossible success chance:  44.37		Impossible success chance:  15.2

The target numbers are the same(again, they weren't broken in T4), 
but clearly from the first example, target number calcuation is 
weighted towards skills and attributes still have a major role in the 
number.

The success chance is where the KBv1.1 system works.  It reduces the 
chance of the Impossible task by a large amount.  Only the highly 
skilled will succeed with such an attempt.

Since you have already adopted the difficulty system I propose in 
KBv1.1--

(from your most recent post)

> TASK DIFFICULTIES
> Difficulty	Dice	Typical	Expert
> Level	Code	Success	Success
> 	Easy	auto	100%	100%
> 	Average	2D	 86%	100%
> 	Difficult	2=BDD	 61%	100%
> 	Formidable	3D	 38%	100%
> 	Staggering	4D	 10%	 92%
> 	Impossible	5D	   2%	 61%

I am guessing that you have calculated target numbers and compared 
them to your other proposed whole die system--and found it to 
be unacceptible because the curve was too steep.

If you can come up with a better way to get rid of the half die, then 
I'm all for it.  For now, it seems the best solution to this problem 
is to use the difficulty fix I proposed in KBv1.1.

Now, we have to attack the problem of attributes being weighted more 
than skills in the target number calculation.

And that leads us back to the beginning of this post.

Double skills, halve attributes.

What questions do you have at this point?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 04:37:52 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Marc's Task System

> In a message dated 97-02-22 07:41:23 EST, you write:

> So I took four typical people and looked at how they would fare
> under your system:
> 
> Dullard has stat-4 and skill-1. Typical has stat-7 and skill-3.
> Expert has stat-12 and skill-7. Superman has stat-15 and skill-12.


OK, Marc, let me lay a few assumptions on you.  

1) First, the KBv1.1 task system was designed to fix the problems in
the basic T4 task system as it was written in the book--not re-create
a task system. 

I wanted to stay as close as possible to the system as 
written and still fix the problems of having the attribute more 
important than the stat (The Pilot-1, Dex-10--Pilot-4, Dex-6 problem)
and the problem of having Staggering and Impossible tasks too easy to
obtain (thus the change in dice to 4D and 5D for those two
categories).

My question here is--are you wanting to change the whole task system
or stay close to the original T4 system as written?

If the latter, then I advocate my system because it is the best way
that I have found (and I've looked at a lot of ways) to fix the T4
system and have the system still recognizable as the T4 system.  It
takes a minimum of steps with my system, as I have already explained
in earlier posts, to fix what is broken in T4.

If you are suggesting that a new system is introduced all together,
then KBv1.1 is not appropriate.  It wasn't designed to be a new task
system, like some others that have been posted here on the TML.  It is
only a fix to T4.

If I had my rathers, I'd get rid of the 1/2 die all together.  And,
although my target number calculation is relativly easy (double one,
half another), it is not as smooth as just adding two numbers together
like the T4 system.

What I would really like is to see a system that only uses whole dice
on the difficulty categories and has an easy target number
calculation.  

Your T4 fix with whole dice does this, but as I have stated, if you
run the numbers you will see that the curve is too steep for the low
level skills.  In order to use this system, we are going to have to
find a way to boost the lower target numbers up so that a character
has a decent chance of doing something.

Also, the attribute vs stat problem needs to be addressed, and this
needs to be addressed in such a way that target number calculation is
easy to calculate even after the character is wounded.

Just adding attribute and stat gives too much weight to the 
attribute.  Although the attribute should have a big impact on the
target number calculation, it shouldn't be bigger than the effect
skill level has on the number.



2)  Another assumption.  Your Superhuman character had a skill level
of 12.  I don't see skills getting that high, do you?  I see them
going to 7, maybe 8, before the character is too old to adventure.

Maybe this comes from the T4 XP system, which I think is broken too.

Before I can advocate a system, I need to know where your thinking is
on this.  Are level 12 skills obtainable?  

Since much of T4 is based on CT--in fact, I consider T4  as CT with a
few tweaks--I assumed in designing KBv1.1 that skill levels will be
valued at about the same as they were in CT (a character just had more
of them, but the skill levels were still the same value).

You would never see a level 12 skill in CT.  And, under the skills
section, it still says that a doctor is a level-3 skill.  Judging by
this (and other numerous CT-T4 comparisons), level 12 skills should
not be possible in T4 either.



3)  Your original post to me compared target numbers, but target
numbers are not what is broken in T4.  In fact, I wanted my numbers
from KBv1.1 to be very close to the target numbers I would get if I
used T4 as is.  KBv1.1 does that.  

The problem is not the target 
number, its that attributes are weighted much more than skills. 
KBv1.1 levels the field between the two.



>Where the system might make a difference is 

With that out of the way, let's talk about KBv1.1.

Again, we assume that:
 1) We want to stay as close to the T4 system as possible but still 
 fix the attributes-weighted-more-than-skills problem and the 
 Staggering/Impossible-tasks-are-too-easy problem.

 2) We want an easy to calculate target number.

 3) Skills will top out at 6, 7, or 8

How does my system fix the problems listed in point number one above?

 Here's the old Pilot example:

 Jane has Pilot-1, a beginner, but a natural ability, Dex-10.
 Paule has Pilot-4, a professional with a great deal of skill, but 
 natural ability of about average, Dex-6.

 Under T4 as written, Janes target number is 1, and Paule's target 
 number is 10. 

 Jane's natural ability has given her, a beginner,  a better success
at piloting than a professional with great skill.  

 Under KBv1.1, this problem is fixed.  Jane's target number is 7 
 whereas Paule's target number is 11.

Skill has overcome raw, untrained, natural ability.  First problem
(with T4) solved.

OK, now for the second problem--the difficulty percentages.  After
running the numbers, I saw that most of the categories were fine.  The
only problem came in when a character needs to make a Staggering or
Impossible throw.  I'll use the Impossible category for an example
below.

 Ulric has Computer-4 and EDU-9.

T4							KBv1.1
Target Number:  13				Target Number:  13
Impossible success chance:  44.37		Impossible success chance:  15.2

The target numbers are the same(again, they weren't broken in T4), but
clearly from the first example, target number calcuation is weighted
towards skills and attributes still have a major role in the number.

The success chance is where the KBv1.1 system works.  It reduces the
chance of the Impossible task by a large amount.  Only the highly
skilled will succeed with such an attempt.

Since you have already adopted the difficulty system I propose in
KBv1.1--

(from your most recent post)

> TASK DIFFICULTIES
> Difficulty	Dice	Typical	Expert
> Level	Code	Success	Success
> 	Easy	auto	100%	100%
> 	Average	2D	 86%	100%
> 	Difficult	2=BDD	 61%	100%
> 	Formidable	3D	 38%	100%
> 	Staggering	4D	 10%	 92%
> 	Impossible	5D	   2%	 61%

I am guessing that you have calculated target numbers and compared
them to your other proposed whole die system--and found it to be
unacceptible because the curve was too steep.

If you can come up with a better way to get rid of the half die, then
I'm all for it.  For now, it seems the best solution to this problem
is to use the difficulty fix I proposed in KBv1.1.

Now, we have to attack the problem of attributes being weighted more
than skills in the target number calculation.

And that leads us back to the beginning of this post.

Double skills, halve attributes.

What questions do you have at this point?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 04:32:23 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Tasks (draft 022397)

Marc,

I've found some problems with your task paragraph.

Here goes.


> SPECTACULAR RESULTS
> 	The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
> negative sense.
> 	Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual=
 dice
> roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is

First off, there will be no SS for an Average task?  There should be.

And, I'd like to see the percentage chance of rolling 3 ones or 3 
sixes for each difficulty.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the percentage chance 
for a SS will GO UP the more dice you roll.

This means that characters will have NO chance of rolling SS for Easy 
and Average tasks but WILL have a chance of rolling SS on a Difficult 
task.  And, they will have a BETTER chance of rolling SS on 
Formidable rolls, and this chance will GO UP the harder the task 
gets.

There's something definitely wrong with that thinking.

T4's system is pretty good as is.  For Easy tasks, there IS a chance 
for SS, but no chance for SF--meaning that you can't screw up 
(although you can fail when your GM makes your roll Easy tasks) and 
Easy task, but you can do really well at it.

This makes sense for Easy tasks.  

Since SS in T4 (as written) is the lowest number available on the 
amount of dice thrown, the chance that an SS occurs GOES DOWN the 
harder the task gets.

This makes a lot of sense to me.  The harder the task is, the harder 
it is to do really well at it. 

And SF is only two 6's.  This means that the chance of really 
screwing up a task GOES UP the harder the task becomes.

This makes sense as well.  I would expect to have a bigger chance of 
royally screwing up on an Impossible task over a task that was only 
Difficult.

I think you should leave SS and SF as is.

Noticing that you are considering the difficulty definitions I 
proposed with KBv1.1

> TASK DIFFICULTIES
> Difficulty	Dice	Typical	Expert
> Level	Code	Success	Success
> 	Easy	auto	100%	100%
> 	Average	2D	 86%	100%
> 	Difficult	2=BDD	 61%	100%
> 	Formidable	3D	 38%	100%
> 	Staggering	4D	 10%	 92%
> 	Impossible	5D	   2%	 61%

The percentages of SS and SF are pretty good with the T4 system 
combined with these new difficulty dice codes.

Here they are:
			SS						SF
Easy			100% (or 5.56% is you roll)		0.00%
Average		2.78%					2.78%
Difficult		0.93%					2.78%
Formidable		0.46%					7.41%
Staggering		0.08%					13.19%
Impossible		0.01%					19.62%

My vote:  Don't change the T4 SS and SF definitions, or at least 
re-think what you are changing it to.	
  


> DURATION
> 	Tasks take time.

I assume that this is a throw back to the time calculation for tasks 
in MT.  I think that its a good idea, and when I need to know a time 
for a task, I use this system too.

One thing that you didn't mention in your paragraph, though, is how 
to roll for time.

I really like the MT method where the GM figures the average time it 
should take the average person to complete a task and take 10% of 
this figure.  This becomes the time multiplier, and player's roll 
3D6.  The result of this roll is multiplied by the time multiplier.  
Players can use their skill levels as a negative DM on the 3D6 roll 
to decrease the throw and decrease the time it takes to accomplish 
the task.

This system gives a good variance to the time it takes to complete a 
task.

I'm glad you put it in.

> CHANCE OF SUCCESS
> 		Avg	Diff	For	Sta	Imp
> Roll		2D	2.5D	3D	4D	5D 
> 	2	0.8	-	-	-	-
> 	3	3.2	0.3	0.1	-	- 
> 	4	7.9	1.5	0.6	0.02	- 
> 	5	15.9	4.6	1.9	0.1	0.004 
> 	6	27.8	10.2	4.6	0.5	0.02 
> 	7	44.4	18.8	9.2	1.2	0.1 
> 	8	60.3	31.2	16.6	2.8	0.3 
> 	9	74.6	46.0	26.5	5.6	0.8 
> 	10	86.5	61.4	38.4	10.0	1.7 
> 	11	95.2	75.0	51.5	16.3	3.4 
> 	12	100.0	86.1	64.8	24.5	6.0 
> 	13		94.1	76.8	34.6	10.1 
> 	14		98.5	86.1	45.8	15.6 
> 	15		100.0	92.7	57.4	22.8 
> 	16			96.9	68.4	31.4 
> 	17			99.2	78.2	41.2 
> 	18			100.0	86.1	51.5 
> 	19				92.0	61.8 
> 	20				95.8	71.3 
> 	21				98.1	79.7 
> 	22				99.4	86.4 
> 	23				99.9	91.6 
> 	24				100.0	95.2 
> 	25					97.5 
> 	26					98.9 
> 	27					99.6 
> 	28					99.9 
> 	29					100.0 
> 	30					100.0 
> This table shows the percentage chance of success for each difficulty le=
vel
> and target number.

You should correct the table to reflect the chances for SS and SF.  
For example, with regard to SF, a Staggering roll can never be 100%.

I already have a table that reflects both SS and SF for this 
difficulty system--using the T4 definitions of SS and SF.

I'll post it for you if you like.


Keep up the good work, Marc.  We'll make this thing bug free yet.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:44:41 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Plastic Batteries  in Traveller

>50 watts is not a usable weapon. 50 *kilowatts* is pretty wimpy for a laser.

The "power" of weapons is measured in jouls. A 50 Watt laser if able to
ramp up charge for an hour would pack 180 KJ. Watts is important if the
laser lacks a storage bank or is of the continous beam variety.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:48:50 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

>2)  Jump Nets - much like boat covers on 'wet' Navy ships, the support
>crew will cover the external craft/whatever with a flexible 'mesh' that
>has Lanthium field wires woven into it.  The mesh is tied into the main
>jump net at prepared points to extend the field as required.

In the CT book Fighting ships there was a large ore carrier that had jump
mesh to put around large boulders of asteroids for transport. This is just
for the record as I don't like the concept of flexible jump meshes and the
illos in Fighting Ships was so horrible that I could never use them. the
artists that managed to redraw the Survey Cruiser to look OK in WBH earns
extra credit for that one. Look at the original picture in Fighting ships
and you know what I mean. Also, interstellar transport of unprocessed ore
sounds really stupid as well.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:44:46 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: micro survey

Anyone want to help with 2 questions?

The first factual to help my ignorance, the second opinion because I'm
curious.  If you want to reply off list and there's any interest, I'll
summarize the results.

1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?

2. What, in your opinion, makes Traveller special/different/unique as an SF
RPG?


and one to pontificate over:
3. Has Manipulator Miller (M. Miller!), made a differance to Terran
history?


Many thanks

tc
timothy.collinson@solent.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:58:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: RE:New T4 Task system

From Commander X at the office
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

Just got back from JAXCON.  Every player in the group enjoyed the game very 
much, I had 3 olde tyme CT players and one relitive newbie kid.  I hooked 
the kid, and sparked interest in the olde tymers!  Mission successful!

Planet X 0.5b wasn't a bad adventure, now i need to test out v0.9b on my 
clan.  I did notice however that the tasks were for the most part too 
blasted easy.  I was going to change the die rolls by removing the 1/2 dice 
for one.  and then going up the scale 1-6.

Then i saw this when i got home to read my e-mail (all 100+ of them!)

from cardsharks@aol.com (Marc Miller):
> Task Difficulties
> Difficulty Level      Dice Code       Typical Success
> Easy  auto            100%
> Average       2D
> Difficult     3D
> Formidable    4D
> Staggering    5D
> Impossible    6D

AAAAAUGH!  Marc, get outa my head!  that was exactly what I was thinking. 
 :)
**Commnader X puts on his Psi-Shield helmet stat!**

I like this, this is good to get rid of the blasted 1/2 dice.  going up to 
6d aslo makes the imposible, well, imposible!

Commander X


             

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:06:58 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Hi-G escape boats?

Hugh Johnson wrote:

>>In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9702201853.A26648-0100000@fujin.qub.ac.uk>
>>
>><< 'Emissary' escape boat - no Imperial embassy should be without one. A
>>10-person, hi-G, stealthy boat for getting essential personnel off planet
>>safely. >>
>>
>>No! You'd never be able to have scenes with the PCs trying to land on the
>>roof of the embassy and rescue the staff, with the enemy outside trying
>>to smash the doors down...
>>
>>    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
>>Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
>> "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
>>
>
>        Imperial embassies should have some sort of evacuation plan for
>important
>dignitaries.  Of course there is no reason that the vehicle couldn't be
>sabotaged or even shot down and forced to land in an even more precarious
>situation.  Possibly with the characters on board <G>.


        Um... a while back I did up a design for precisely this sort of
craft.  If anybody wants to see it again, I can repost.  Of course, the
hi-G stealthy combination actually lends itself well to other uses, such as
informal importation of commodities that are somewhat less than legal, or
covert ops..:)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #983
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 24 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 984



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Why do GMs want characters to fail?  Plus bonus XP.  ;-)  (was Re: MT Attributes)
THUDDD voting...
Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Why not d30's for Traveller?
Geonee ship construction
Re: Half-dice and attributes
Mini-survey
Vilani Will Eat Itself...
Re: Why not d30's for Traveller?
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
THUDDD and collapsible tanks
Re: After THUDDD
SSDS Meson Screen Values
T4 Tasks
Re: Spectacular Results (new)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:02:47 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Why do GMs want characters to fail?  Plus bonus XP.  ;-)  (was Re: MT Attributes)

Note:  This is being posted for and by David Reed.

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: MT Attributes
> Date: Saturday, February 22, 1997 12:18 AM

Kenneth Bearden mused aloud:
> Why else would Olympic skaters practice all the time?  They've got 
> the natural ability, but they need to increase their skill level.
> 
> Put a skater with great natural ability against a skater who has 
> trained all her life, but only has so-so natural ability, and my 
> money will always be on the one who is trained.

You're comparing the ubiquitous apples and oranges, again...

Olympic skaters train for the EDGE over other trained skaters.  Skating
FOUR plus natural ability make for good skaters (know any world class
skaters that don't have a naturally HIGH dexterity and endurance?  I've
never heard of one... Not even of "so-so natural ability".  They were all
"buff" before they began training, usually right around birth, or just
before.  OR they developed those stats in conjunction with their skill
training...  It's not as if they stop developing DEX and END while
practicing whatever it is that skaters have to be skilled at, like watching
the ice, or something...  Maybe it's all natural ability and no skill at
all, perhaps we just need a few more stats in Traveller! ;-)

You're comparing a highly talented person with a trained AND highly
talented person...  You're unlikely to find HIGHLY trained people with NO
natural talent.  Characters with a STR of 2 don't cut it in the Marines,
and therefore never build up their combat skills very high...

William F. Hostman also contributed:
> That should be 3 attribute=1skilllevel; where you chose 2=1, TNE and T4
> official use 1=1, and MT uses 5att=1sk. We're in agreement that training
> is more valuable than raw talent; just in disagreement about HOW MUCH
> moreso.

I, for one, do not agree.  So there.  ;-P  [It is important to note that
the author sought earlier to avoid any confrontation over the nuture v.
nature issues, but was provoked beyond the expected tolerance of any
sophont.  -ed.]  I think the assumption that once a character begins formal
"training" that s/he never continues developing "raw ability" is wrong.

Natural talent is the basis for ANY training whatsoever.  "If thou has
niescht the ability, thou wilt niescht develop any skill..."  [Pardon the
poor spelling, and abuse, of German.  The author has no formal training,
ability, or any other experience with the language, he just thinks it
sounds kewl.  -ed.]

If you have the coordination of George McFly, the you'll not be developing
much skill at the old arcade with the pistola...  In fact, you'll probably
avoid any such place that might put you nearby someone who could possibly
excel at it (FoEx, his son).
</rant>

I think that we're all beating the dead horse of whether a few jedi
characters get off easy or not.  If PCs in your game come up being all
jedi, then simply change the rules you use for generation, or XP, or
whatever.  Or make a special rule that they have to roll double the dice,
"just because..."  STOP THE MONTY HAUL.  Sorry.  Heh.


XP and Development during play

I intend to use a "hero point" system where the PCs acquire hero points for
spectacular success and spectacular failure.  These points can be
accumulated slowly, once per "session" for any given skill and put into a
general pool of "hero points" which has two uses:

1. For use as DMs to rolls (i.e. the old brownie points, but usable during
actual play), for which they are expended.

2. For use in developing skills (requiring a number of points equal to the
level to be gained, plus the cost/time of the requisite training) for which
they are expended.

Comments?
__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:28:59 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: THUDDD voting...

Idiot/Savant wrote:

[snip]

>
> In retrospect, my comments may have been a little harsh sometimes. OTOH,
>looking at the averages, it seems I was one of the more merciful voters.
>


        You were indeed.  There were a lot of 2's, 1's, and 0's handed out.
I think that a lot of the reason for the harshness was the fact that Far
Traders are basically boring ships to design and evaluate; since the
purpose is to make money, the bottom line becomes the main concern,
funkiness suffers, people get bored, and when they see yet another 200td Sl
Slab econobox, they marked harshly.

        I think that with the Merc Cruiser THUDDD, where the ships are
bigger, the emphasis on profitability absent, and the mission requirement a
little bit more exciting than "jump 2 make money", the ratings might be
higher...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:55:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

Hi.

I don't know what PBG means, but here's a guess:
	Planetoids-Bases-GasGiants?

Are there codes in that column which indicate the presence or absence of
any of these things?

- -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:38:35 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Why not d30's for Traveller?

>   No offense to Kenneth, but it just has to be said....
>
>   I've seen a number of people here propose any number of fixes to the
>T4 system, and I have come to a conclusion: most Traveller players and
>referees are totally fixated on using D6 (and its bastard cousin, D3).
>So much so, they would rather come up with complicated formulas, native
>ritual dances, or semi-mystical chant spells so that they can use D6s
>instead of some other form of dice.
>
>   Why?  Is there something inherantly evil about D10s and D20s that
>I've been blinded to because of some spell cast on me by TSR during a
>visit to GenCon?  Is it that D10s and D20s are only available here in
>Ohio, and the rumors of their availability elsewhere are part of a
>diabolical TSR plot?
>
>   I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
>why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
>D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
>please explain it to me?

Sure Harold, it's like this...

For SOME people (not all but SOME), Traveller is a nostalgia trip. Thus,
efficiency and logic don't enter into the discussion; they want their
Traveller exactly the way it used to be! I've even heard a few of these
folks complain about the parts of T4 that are VAST IMPROVEMENTS over CT.
Some even grouse about MT, and Grandfather forbid you should mention TNE to
them...
        To these souls living in the past, Traveller has always been D6's
and nothing but d6's, and they can't -or more accurately WON'T- hear of any
other idea. 
        Hey, if you want to continue playing a
good-for-it's-time-but-way-too-archaic-for-today's-market-game, feel free.
Lots of other people do too; it's called AD&D. And have fun. That's what
it's all about. But don't expect the rest of us to follow you.
        NOW, having said that, I have no problem with T4 using d6's (or d6's
with d3's) rather than other forms. It is true that some new players can get
confused with multiple types and sizes of dice, at least for the first
couple of sessions. But if Marc suddenly decided tomorrow that Traveller
needs to use d30's, that wouldn't bother me either, because to me the play's
the thing. I could care LESS what kind of dice Traveller uses.

Allen 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:18:22 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Geonee ship construction

        O.K., I know all of you are only interested in Marc's Task system at
the moment, but take a look when you've got time.... I developed some
guidelines for Geonee starships (you better take them into account if you
plan to travel in Massilia) and Scott created one example.

        ===================================
        Geonee Standard Ship specifications - by Carlos Alos-Ferrer
        ===================================

	Geonee starships present a certain number of unusual features.

	1) Low interdeck height
	Geonee are 1.5 m tall, so the interdeck height in their ships is
usually smaller than in Vilani/Solomani ships. Typically, this height is around
2.4 m rather than the standard 3 m.
	For mapping purposes, this means that 2 displacement tons are
equivalent to 5 squares of 1.5 x 1.5 m, rather than 4. This makes Geonee
deckplans slightly larger than that of other races, but when one enters
in a Geonee ship, the first thing to notice is the fact that the ceiling is
very close.

	2) Only large staterooms
	Geonee starships are usually equipped only with large staterooms
for both the crew and passengers, in order to allow the male Geonee to
occupy the stateroom with the bondmaker or Chirper "pet" that typically
is attached to him.

	3) The brig.
	Most Geonee starships, specially the commercial ones, are
equipped with a small stateroom  which serves as a vault or brig where valuable
items can be kept under lock and key if necessary. This can include Geonee
females, for instance when some female is sent by her father, husband or
son from one world to another.

 	4) Threatening appearance.
	Other races typically find Geonee starships "threatening" because
of their particular design style. Falcon-like designs, for instance, are
common.

	5) Missiles.
	Geonee show some preference towards missiles above lasers. This
preference is deeply rooted in the historical effects of active volcanoes
and earthquakes in their homeworld. Psychologists argue that missiles cause
effects that can be more easily associated with those natural phenomena,
and so cause an instinctive fear on most Geonee, making them preferable
to the military mindset.

        6) Cost.
        The specific features of the Geonee ships typically make them a
bit more expensive than the analogous ships from other races.

 	7) Tech level.
	In Milieu Zero, the Tech Level of most Geonee ships is 11, but TL
12 ships are common and even TL 13 not unusual. TL 14 systems can also be
found occasionally.
	In 1105/1120, most Geonee ships are TL 15/16.
	In the New Era, new Geonee ships are TL 11. Old ships of TL 15/16
are also operated, but as their systems slowly fail, they are being
substituted by TL 11 ones.

        One of the most frequently encountered Geonee ships is the "Adroaal"
class Free Trader. "Adroaal" means "Profit-maker" in Irkonee (the most
widespread Geonee language), or, more correctly, "the one who makes profits".

=============================================================================

"Adroaal" Class Geonee Free Trader (QSDS 1.5) - by Scott M. Galliand

Tons: 200 Std (Box Streamlined)   Volume: 2800 m^3	Cost: 80.3 MCr
Crew: 6 			      High/Mid Pass: 6/1*	Low: 6
Cargo: 32 Std		              Controls: Civ. Standard/	TL: 11
				      Cockpit

8 Size 				2 Jump Drive (20 Std/Pc Fuel)
 				1 Maneuver (Thrusterplates)
				2 Power Plant (2, 150Mw)
				41.6 Fuel (Scoop Y, Refine 5 std./hr.)
 				0  Meson Screen
				0 Sandcasters
				0 Nuclear Damper
				A1 P3 J0 Sensors (Basic)
         			10 Armor, 10 Structure

Crew Detail: 	1 Engineers, 1 Electronics, 2 Maneuver, 1 Steward, 1 Medical

Notes:
- -Engineering shop
- -Sickbay
- -External Grapple for 30 ton aux. craft
- -One small stateroom serves as a "Vault/Brig" for valuables kept under
lock & key
- - All large staterooms assume one Geonee and one chirper as occupants.  6
are for the crew, and six for passengers. 
================================================================================

	
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer                          E-mail: Alos@merlin.fae.ua.es
Dpt. Fundamentos del Analisis Economico     Phn: (34) 6 5903400, Ext. 3226
Universidad de Alicante                          (34) 6 5903614
03071-Alicante (Spain)                      Fax: (34) 6 5903685
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:39:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Half-dice and attributes

   Hi.

> From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)

>>However, I'd like to point out that many of us prefer skills to have a
>>greater impact on target numbers than they currently do.  Ken's system

> Well, that's as may be, but it doesn't speak for me! (I realize you said
> "most"). I think this comes down to a stylistic debate (LOTS of games these
> days have attributes having a greater effect on overall changce of success),
> and of course that old stand-by "We want our old Traveller back". I like the
> balance of attribute and skill the way it is.

> Allen

   I too like the new emphasis on attributes, and my players seem to
   like it too. In the past, my players used to roll up a high attribute
   (say, Str) and then get disappointed when they discovered it didn't
   really count for much. Now the players are all much more excited
   about their character's statistics. Off course, no one has rolled up
   a character that sucks yet. 8^)

   Each character seems to have at least one attribute pretty high, and
   this has led to specialization among the team. It's kinda fun.  But
   it does mean that I need to make my tasks harder to keep things
   challenging for the team ("difficulty inflation"). This is a
   drawback, but not a serious one, IMHO.

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:45:28 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Mini-survey

>Anyone want to help with 2 questions?
>
>The first factual to help my ignorance, the second opinion because I'm
>curious.  If you want to reply off list and there's any interest, I'll
>summarize the results.
>
>1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?

According to Lawrence Schick's HEROIC WORLDS, Flying Buffalo published a
SFRPG called "Starfaring" that came out a few months before Traveller. It
was based on the Tunnels and Trolls rules and was not a serious game, and
therefore virtually dissapeared from the market when Traveller (the first
REAL SFRPG) appeared. it is also possible (although I'm not sure) that
"Metamorphisis Alpha" (a.k.a. "D&D in Space") might have come out before
Traveller, but I don't think so.

>2. What, in your opinion, makes Traveller special/different/unique as an SF
>RPG?

I would have to say that it combines a certain simplicity of game system (at
least in it's best incarnations) with the sweep and grandeur of a classic
Science Fiction setting. When I think of science fiction, the first thing
that comes to my mind is not cyberpunk or 'dark future' settings. It's
Asimov, Pournelle, Niven, Vance, Van Vogt, and all the authors of the late
60's-early 70's SF that Traveller is based on. A fundamentally OPTIMISTIC
viewpoint, but one that doesn't gloss over problems the way Star Trek often
does.

>and one to pontificate over:
>3. Has Manipulator Miller (M. Miller!), made a differance to Terran
>history?

Well...he has made a difference to the personal histories of a few thousand
Terrans, but I would have to say on a worldwide basis, not really. But
that's ok; I'd rather have the satisfaction of knowing I've brought hours of
enjoyment to a few thousand people than to be President or some such thing.
        Now if Traveller ever makes the big or small screen and becomes a
huge hit, that might be different...can you imagine how bizzare it would be
for us long-time Traveller fans to walk into a Wal-Mart and see a Vargr
action figure??

Allen Shock

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:53:58 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Vilani Will Eat Itself...

>    Even worse!  In the M0 book, in the portion on the Vilani...  There is now
>an OFFICIAL STATEMENT about Vilani cuisine!  It's CANON FOLKS!!!  LOL!

After a careful reading of the section on Vilani Cuisine, I find no mention
whatsoever of cannibalism. Sorry to dissapoint the Galumphing Gourmets out
there...

>    Oh, and for those who do not know yet... Space: Above and Beyond has been
>picked up by the Sci Fi Channel and will be premering some time next years.
>No, I'm not a fan, but I know a bunch of people on this list are and I just
>heard it figured to pass it along.

Oh joy and rapture...(he said saracastically)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:36:29 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Why not d30's for Traveller?

>>   I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
>>why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
>>D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
>>please explain it to me?

The reason for using D6 is that everybody got them, their propability
curves are well known and if used in pairs they're nicely "bell shaped".
Using 2D10 would be OK as well but to no real gain. You'll want a "bell
curve" 'coz you'll cover low propabilities at the ends and still have a
realtively narrow spread in the middle which is a GOOD THING. We want small
numbers to play with to ease playability. The reason we get these funny
dice and large target numbers is that the designers don't know propability
and are generally inexperienced in game system design. One of the few
really good system designers around was Frank Chadwick and one of the
coolest systems he made was Space 1889

For that Allen guy who considered those wanting only D6 to be old
nostalgics comparable to AD&D players lighten up. The old 70' and 80' games
used D100, D20 et c (like AD&D) but modern games (like them or not) use D6
like Warhammer, StarWars et c.

Skills levels should normally compleately describe how good a character is
in that skill.
Characteristics should govern how easy it is for the guy to improve his
skills and also his abilities when unskilled. There should be no auto
success, auto failures regardless of skill and task difficulty. The MOST
important aspect of a task system is its descriptive nature:
If a task is "Difficult" then an average guy in that skill should have a
difficult time succeeding. This makes it easier for the players to play
without knowing the rules.
GM should tell the players what they see, hear etc, the players will tell
the GM what they want to do and the GM translates that into task rolls et
c. The only thing players need to know is the gaming universe. Period.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:31:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@*teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Anders Backman wrote:

> In the CT book Fighting ships there was a large ore carrier that had jump
> mesh to put around large boulders of asteroids for transport. This is just
> for the record as I don't like the concept of flexible jump meshes and the

Well, I'm not terribly fond of the concept either -I've always thought
that a jump field would require a precision that isn't available in the
jump net.

> illos in Fighting Ships was so horrible that I could never use them. the
> artists that managed to redraw the Survey Cruiser to look OK in WBH earns
> extra credit for that one. Look at the original picture in Fighting ships
> and you know what I mean. Also, interstellar transport of unprocessed ore
> sounds really stupid as well.

Intersteller transport of ores makes as much sense as the US policy of
exporting raw logs and then buying back the finished wood products.
Seriously tho', it would depend on the labor costs.  If you are mining a
insidious or corrosive atmospheric world, the cost per ton to ship ore may
be lower than the cost to process it on that world.  It would also be an
effective way to keep a type 6 government (captive) in check, by not
giving the world any means to be self sufficient.

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:05:54 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: THUDDD and collapsible tanks

From the Runners Up posting....

> An unarmed interstellar dumptruck which would make a _great_ Free
>Trader design - it being made useless as a Far Trader by the use of
>demountable/dissasemable tankage for half its jump fuel. Relies on

STEEEEERIKE ONE!

>corners with a skeleton crew (see above). The collapsable fuel tank
>won't fly! T4 doesn't address this well, but a collapseable full tank
>won't drain fast enough for Jump drive operations. Command crew is

STUUUUUUURIKE TWO!

>one get its ISDP component discount? Not only does it suffer from the
>Passanger Bug, it also seems that Ketaru Aerospace needs to check up
>on the proper use of dismantalable tanks. This ship seems

STEEEEUUUUUURIKE THREE! YER OUT!

> Too expensive, and the same problem with disassembable tanks as the
>last one. Slight case of Passanger Bug, and probably not profitable

STRRRRRRRIKE ONE!

>Command unnecassary. Abuses collapseable fuel bladders (see above).

STAAAAAAAAARIKE TWO!

>The ultimate example of that minimalist design philosophy; is still
>kinda cool, but has those damn collapsible fuel tanks again - in

STUUUUUURIKE THREE! TWO OUTS!

"Owensby steps up to the plate.... It all rests on this swing... Here's the
pitch....
and he whips 'round his copy of T4:"

((If you'll check, you'll find each of the designs criticized above uses
DISMOUNTABLE
COLLAPSIBLE tanks, *not* COLLAPSIBLE tanks. From page 94 of T4:

"Collapsible Tanks: .....This fuel may not be used directly, but must be first 
pumped into the ship's normal fuel tanks...."

"Dismountable Tanks:.....Fuel from these rigid tanks may be used directly by the
ship's drives....A version is also available that can be disassembled to
store in 25%
of its full volume....."

Each of these designs is made to thus carry almost the same amount of cargo 
with tanks open as a standard design, PLUS that additional amount of cargo
profit
if it is just going to do a Jump 1. ))

CEEERRRAAAACKKKK!!!  IT'S A HIT!  IT'S A HIT! OWENSBY SAVES THE
DAY! IT'S A FIRST, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE REF IS BEING SENT 
BACK TO THE SHOWERS! <VBG>

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:35:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: After THUDDD

On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Don McKinney wrote:

> OK:  Now that the first THUDDD exposition is done, perhaps the contestants
> would tell us how they designed their ships - esp. if they used a program
> or spreadsheet, and perhaps make the programs/spreadsheets available on a
> website?

I used a spreadsheet, but it was pretty much just using it instead of a
calculator...all the calculators in my house always seem to be dead..I
have been known to fire up the Mac, just to use the calculator DA.

I can post it, but there's nothing much to it...you enter all the values
by hand, and I set aside a multiplier column for each thing that has
multiples, like staterooms and workstations, but otherwise there isn't
much difference between that and using pencil and paper.

It's nice for doing multiple variants on the same design, but until I fix
it up a little, it's a pain to use for different designs, because there
are a lot of places for erros to creep in, by forgetting, for instance,
that a 5000 dt hull takes a different size jump drive than a 500 dt one.

Also using the 'spreadsheet as scratch paper' is something I'm really used
to doing, in fact building a structured sheet to handle all the
calculations, I would find a pain, and will let someone _else_ handle ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:26:14 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: SSDS Meson Screen Values

        While futzing around with the HG-T4 Conversion System posted on
Kevin Walsh's "Free Trader Beowulf" site (an excellent site, by the way), I
noticed reference to missing information on the Meson Screen table in the
Standard Ship Design System. I looked this up and came up with some helpful
information. This has probably been covered in errata, but if it hasn't (and
since I have nothing else to do today except grow older), I thought I'd
share my findings with all of you.
        First of all, if you look at the table, you will find the key to the
missing USD values. the first two columns are labelled "7" and "8 or 9".
These are references to the size factors of hulls; the numbers beneath them
are the PV's of the screens for those hulls. These numbers can be converted
to USD numbers using the table at the end of SSDS. HOWEVER there is a slight
error here. According to the way Meson Screens are built in FF&S, the first
column should be "Size 7 and 8" (for ships from 10 to 999 tons) and the
second column should be "Size 9" (for ships of 1000+ tons).

Here are the translated USD values for the meson screens for those who'd
rather just be able to look them up:

TL      SIZE 7,8        SIZE 9
12      4               3
12      7               5
12      8               7
12      10              8
12      11              10
13      5               4
13      8               6
13      9               8
13      10              9
13      11              10
14      6               4
14      8               6
14      9               8
14      10              9
14      12              11

This may be of some use to the HG-T4 folks for figuring out how to convert
Meson Screens. However, I propose an easier way; simply find the conversion
for a Meson Gun of the same factor as the screen you want to convert. I
would presume that a Factor 9 screen would completely stop a Factor 9 gun at
optimum range, yes? if so, find the Very Short damage range number (the
first one in the sequence), which for a Factor 9 gun is 9 (conveinent, eh?)
and that's the strength of a Factor 9 Meson Screen! This also raises an
interesting point; the Meson Screens given in SSDS max out just shy of
Factor A in the HG-T4 conversion system. One would presume then that Factor
A might be the largest Meson Gun that can be mounted on a vessel of 5,000
tons. Is this true? Could be interesting to find out...

Allen 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:57:45 -0600
From: "Joul, Christopher" <JOUC1@Aerial1.com>
Subject: T4 Tasks

With all the discussion, on the T4 task system, I thought I would add my
0.002 Cents into the debate.

I use a slightly modified version of the T4 task system in that target
numbers are calculated in the same manner (Attribute + Skill), and the
dice rolled in the same manner 2D, 2.5D, 3D, 3.5D and 4D.  Except I
treat any roll with a double number a failure, unless the double is less
than the skill used, eg skill 3 for a double 2 rolled.  The only
exception to this is a double 1 in the case of a average task (2D) which
is obviously a special success.

E.G.
Skill 4 Attribute 5 (good pilot, poor natural ability), target number =
9.
Skill 1 Attribute 8 (Basic training, above average ability), target
number also = 9.

On A roll of 2,3,3, normaly both pilots would succede under the T4
System, however under my system the pilot who received only basic
training would fail. 

I find this system has a number of advantages over the standard T4
system and a number of other proposed systems :-
a) It uses simple addition to calculate task target numbers (not that I
find division and multiplication difficult).
b) It gives full weight to the attribute, without detracting from the
value of the skill.  I agree with many others that the T4 and TNE
systems place too high a value on the attribute and not the skill.
c) It adds to an air of uncertanty ammongst the players, who is the
better pilot, the character with Dex 7 and Skill 4, or the character
with Dex B and Skill 1.  It's not easy for the players to work this out.
d) At low difficulties natural ability is more important, but at higher
difficulties skill becomes more important, which reflects real life in
my opinion.

Unfortunatly point c) does lead to the only drawback of this sytem,
which it is difficult for the GM to determine the diificulty of a task.
But I have found that with experience this does not become too tiresome.

There is also another point in that the system can result sometimes in
player frustration when they realize that the double 2 they have just
rolled is not a success, as they only have skill 1.  But as a GM I think
this a good thing (my players may disagree with me there however).

Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:59:32 -0800
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Spectacular Results (new)

Peter Newman wrote:
> [Old New System Snipped]
> 
> > SPECTACULAR RESULTS (NEW)
> >         The results of some tasks may be spectacular in either a positive or a
> > negative sense.
> >         Spectacular Success. A task result may be almost perfect. If the actual dice
> > roll includes 3 ones (not possible on 2D, obviously) the result is
> > spectacularly successful. For example, a computer search not only succeeds,
> > it also stumbles on the master system password.
> >         Spectacular Failure. A task result may be terribly bad. If the actual dice
> > roll includes 3 sixes (not possible on 2D, obviously), the result is a
> > spectacular failure. For example, a computer search not only fails, it also
> > sets off security alarms.
> >
> > This gives 0.46% chance of spectacular failure and an equal chance of
> > spectacular success (and is independent of difficulty), but avoids giving a
> > spectacular for average or less difficulty.
> >
> > Marc
> 
>         This is better than the previous proposal but is not yet right.
> The Spectacular Failure System seems about right however the Spectacular
> Success System is broken.  As you roll more dice the odds of getting 3
> ones goes up.  Therefore under this system you would have a greater
> chance of a Spectacular Success at an Impossible Task than you would at
> a Difficult Task, and this is _wrong_.  I am not sure how to fix this
> however.

I have an idea. For spectacular success, _all_ dice need to be ones.
That's the obvious fix.

BTW, I think spectacular failure should be defined as:

If the player rolls greater than the target number and two of the dice
show sixes, *or* if _all the dice show sixes_, the task roll is a
spectacular failure.

>         I would also like to suggest the adoption, or at least the optional
> adoption of the 2X Skill and 0.5 x Attribute System for Task Rolls.  I
> think that T4's current task system (like TNE's) is _wrong_ because
> training is more important than natural talent and not the reverse.

While I agree that training is more important than natural talent in
most cases, I don't agree that the statement holds true in all cases.
Though I admire Ken's task fix, I get the feeling if he had his way, no
nasty math would be required.

IMHO, his "fix" has some disadvantages (amittedly minor disadvantages,
but I think it's important to examine them critically, since Marc's
going through the trouble of completely redesigning the task system):

1. A 4:1 skill to talent ratio is too steep. That's just my feeling.
Many people would argue it isn't. Many would agree that it is. I think
2:1 would be better. Average stats range from 2-12. Average skills from
1-6. Two times six is twelve. You get the idea. That would put Skills
and Attributes on equal footing.

2. Every point in an attribute doesn't count. Admittedly, Ken's system
is better than MT's task system in this regard. But I think that +1 EDU
should always increase your chances to succeed.

3. Division is icky. Hey, I can divide numbers less than 16 in my head
as well as the next guy, but you have to decide to round up or down, and
studies have proven that of basic arithmetic funcitons, it is the
slowest that the average person performs in his head. Ken himself has
mentioned that the ideal task system would require only addition.

4. Attributes change due to damage, and that aggrevates the pain of the
extra division calculation. 

I'm quite pleased that Marc is taking the time to redo the Task system
the way it should have been done in the first place. For the first time,
I'm actually considering plunking down another 50 bucks on the new
"deluxe" rulebook.

If I had my way, target number would be ATTR + (SKILL-1)*2, but
Skill:Attribute disparity can be dealt with in more ways than messing
with the target number, and dealing with extra math. Some ways I can
think of:

- - Reducing difficulty of task for highly skilled characters.
- - Letting the skilled reroll a number of dice equal to their skill
level/2 (round down)
- - Letting the skilled reduce any natural six by their skill level.
- - (variation) Let the skilled subtract from natural one and two's points
equal to their skill level.
- - (variation) If any dice rolled are three or less, and add up to the
player's skill level, they are eliminated (reduce to zero).
- - Let the skilled replace a number of D6's with d3's equal to their
skill level/2 (kidding)

Just brainstorming...

PS. I'm not gonna be the one to do the statistical analysis on my above
suggestions. ;-)

- -- 
====== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /---- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X->  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275  \
 -----------------------/ \=========== Eschew Obfuscation ===========
Technology is an extension of our hands and our feet, not our spirit.
                                    -- Filmmaker Costa-Gavras, 9/6/95

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #984
**********************************
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 24 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 985



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump grid and other surface features
Re: Messing with Tasks
Re: SSDS Meson Screen Values
Another Task System
Vilani Cuisine!
Re: Jump grid and other surface features
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #984
Re: Returned mail: User unknown
THUDDD Voting
THUDD #1 - Thanks from Generica Shipyards
Damage - Blunt Trauma Query
Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers
Alien Races...
Combat vs robots/vehicles
Traveller on IRC
Re: Combat vs robots/vehicles
Dice types
Re: THUDDD Runners-up!
Tasks and the label "Impossible"
Re: Marc's Task System
Re: After THUDDD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:28:53 GMT
From: starwolf@sn.no (StarWolf)
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:31:59 -0800 (PST), Douglas
<douglas@*teleport.com> wrote:


>It would also be an
>effective way to keep a type 6 government (captive) in check, by not
>giving the world any means to be self sufficient.

And if that world isa moon to the main world we got the "Moon is a
harsh mistress" scenario from the named book by Robert Heinlein :)

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Myhre                 |"Never worry about theory as long as the=20
http://home.sn.no/~starwolf | machinery does what it's supposed to do."
Universal Internet          |
            Number: 127772  |                  -- R. A. Heinlein

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:02:16 -0800
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Messing with Tasks

Trent Smith wrote:
> Comments of my own:
>      While Kenneth has obviously succeeded in convincing MM, as well as me, of
> the statistical superiority of his dice progression, I'm still sorry to see
> that half-die on the table, especially since (as the example tasks showed)
> Difficult is by far the most commonly-assigned task difficulty.  Is there
> REALLY no way to stick to whole-dice, remain relatively close to the current
> system, and get a desirable probability spread?
>      As for the other step of KBv1.1, it seems that for the present MM is
> sticking with the original T4 system, which I can easily understand, since the
> added math step of the KB system seems like an unnecessary hassle, but the more
> I think about it, the more I become convinced that having skills outweigh
> attributes on a point-for-point basis is not only a matter of taste, but is
> actually essential to the feel and balance of the game.  At very least I think
> this should be included in a parenthetical note as an Optional Rule-- don't
> require the extra step for refs who don't care, but allow it for those who do.
>      Aside from that I think the new system is a very good thing and if
> (important if!) it is applied consistently to tasks throughout the rest of the
> rulebook, it will go a long way towards making T4.1 actually BE the game that a
> lot of us were hoping and expecting that T4 would be.

Trent, I totally agree with your comments. I'm willing to live with the
half die, but I'd rather live without it. And skills outweighing
attributes is a matter of taste, but of course has a great bearing on
the "feel" of the game. I think that any extra step in target number
calculation should be optional.

- -- 
====== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /---- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X->  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275  \
 -----------------------/ \=========== Eschew Obfuscation ===========
Technology is an extension of our hands and our feet, not our spirit.
                                    -- Filmmaker Costa-Gavras, 9/6/95

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:33:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: SSDS Meson Screen Values

   Hi.

   > From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock	)

   Thanks, Allen, for all that info and insight.

   > This also raises an interesting point; the Meson Screens given in
   > SSDS max out just shy of Factor A in the HG-T4 conversion system. One
   > would presume then that Factor A might be the largest Meson Gun that
   > can be mounted on a vessel of 5,000 tons. Is this true? Could be
   > interesting to find out...

   I don't have HG with me, but I'm pretty sure that the maximum
   meson-gun factor for a 5000-ton hull is 9.

   > Allen 

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 1997 18:26:47 +0000
From: robert.brennan@isocor.ie
Subject: Another Task System

Hi All,

since this task thing has come up again and I have found both
the official T4 task system and KB1.1 lacking.  Here is my take
on a T4-like task system that IMHO produces a good range of
probabilities at various diff levels AND weights Charicteristics
and Skills without requiring the Math of KB 1.1 (I know it's easy
but some of my players find it hard in the heat of the moment).

Goals are
- - eliminate 1/2 dice
- - eliminate extra math of KB1.1(note I think that attribute mods
can be pre-calculated + written on char sheet)
- - reduce chances of success over T4 system
- - make skills count for more than characteristics in task checks

Target number = Skill + (Attribute/2)

note that attrib/2 can be written on char sheet.

Thus an average, skilled character has att 7 + Skill 3 = target 7
PCs are likely to have higher target numbers

Dice rolled for difficulty are:
Easy - no roll for skilled char
Average - 1D6
Difficult - 2D6
Formidible - 3D6
Staggering - 4D6
"Impossible" - 5D6

Unskilled PCs must increase the diff of all tasks by 1 level
Note that a skilled and/or talented PC will not have to roll for
many average tasks.

I have not discussed crit success/failure as the various options
being discussed all make sense.  Time etc should also be 
considered but I think everone is on the same track here.

CHANCE OF SUCCESS
		Avg	Diff	For	Sta	Imp
Target		1D6	2D	3D	4D	5D
            	1	16
	2	33	0.8	-	-	-
	3	50	3.2	0.1	-	- 
	4	66	7.9	0.6	0.02	- 
	5	83	15.9	1.9	0.1	0.004 
	6	100	27.8	4.6	0.5	0.02 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Avg	7		44.4	9.2	1.2	0.1 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
	8		60.3	16.6	2.8	0.3 
	9		74.6	26.5	5.6	0.8 
	10		86.5	38.4	10.0	1.7 
	11		95.2	51.5	16.3	3.4 
	12		100.0	64.8	24.5	6.0 
	13			76.8	34.6	10.1 
	14			86.1	45.8	15.6 
	15			92.7	57.4	22.8 
	16			96.9	68.4	31.4 
	17			99.2	78.2	41.2 
	18			100.0	86.1	51.5 
	19				92.0	61.8 
	20				95.8	71.3 

I think that this nicely solves the Skill vs Attribute problem
without the need to multiply skill x2.  Note that the table 
assumes a max skill 12, this seems reasonable given the T4
char gen system.  Skill levels have definitely been devalued
in T4 but this is not a bad thing as CT characters had too few
skills.  I think the broken thing in T4 is stating that a doctor
is min skill 3 when the levels available to PCs are much greater
this should be changed to Doctor at 4 or 5 (I think).

Anyway I'm throwing this to the wolves, use it if you wish, dump it
otherwise ;-)

rgds
rob

Visit Wasteland Games at http://indigo.ie/~waste

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:09:40 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Vilani Cuisine!

>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 07:23:00 GMT
>From: s.johnson107@genie.com

>    Even worse!  In the M0 book, in the portion on the Vilani...  There is now
>an OFFICIAL STATEMENT about Vilani cuisine!  It's CANON FOLKS!!!  LOL!

Well, it always has been -- food processing is the foundation of Vilani culture, after 
all.  Still, I can't wait to start sending restaurant reviews to JTAS.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:15:50 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Re: Jump grid and other surface features

>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:48:50 +0100
>From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)

>>2)  Jump Nets - much like boat covers on 'wet' Navy ships, the support

>In the CT book Fighting ships there was a large ore carrier that had jump
>mesh to put around large boulders of asteroids for transport. This is just
>for the record as I don't like the concept of flexible jump meshes and the

Let's not forget that the x-boat tender can jump with its bay doors open to accommodate 
a pair of type-S scout ships partially inside and partially outside.  I always have the 
scouts put up a jump net to close the jump field before jump.  

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:40:41 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #984

>For that Allen guy who considered those wanting only D6 to be old
>nostalgics comparable to AD&D players lighten up. The old 70' and 80' games
>used D100, D20 et c (like AD&D) but modern games (like them or not) use D6
>like Warhammer, StarWars et c.

Obviously I didn't type the qualifying statement "SOME people" in big enough
letters. Anyone know how to make Eudora do flashing neon?

Seriously, I have NO PROBLEM with people who prefer d6's for aesthetic
reasons. My favorite game system apart from Traveller is GURPS, which uses
nothing but d6's! My admittedly sarcastic response to Harold's post was
aimed at those FEW (please not the qualifier FEW) whose adherence to d6's
and loathing hatred for the d3 is based on an unwillingness to accept
change. (By the way, WW's storyteller system is a modern system and it uses
d10's.)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:06:01 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown

Harold Hale wrote:

>   I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
>why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
>D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
>please explain it to me?

Harold, you are such a heretic that it can't be explained to you.
 
- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:48:36 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: THUDDD Voting

What's the point to having an overall rating if you are just going to total
all the ratings up and average them out?  I thought that the overall rating
would determine an overall winner.

Chris Cox 
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://user.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:41:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: THUDD #1 - Thanks from Generica Shipyards

  Well, I was rather pleased with my second place finish in the Far Trader
contest, though I think it just shows how nice the original design from CT
is (my version was really just a tweeked copy).  Thanks to all those kind
folks that gave my design the nod.  Economics were clearly not this
design's strong suite, but I thought there should be toys on board for the
characters to play with.

  Since I was moving to a new house this week, I didn't have a chance to
vote on the other designs, but I think the more interesting concepts did
well.  I'm glad those passenger busses didn't do well - I played with a
few of those in the initial stages of my design process, but after looking
at the passenger tables in the rulebook, rejected them out of hand.  Other
than that, I liked most of the designs.

  My personal favorite was the 300T J3 ship - I think this has some real
possibilities as player ship, though it does create problems for the GM
since the players have more choices about where to go (Free Traders are
great that way!).  I think it would look good with the demountable tanks -
have to take a closer look with that.

  What I plan to do is to go through the various designs and see if I can
come up with a superiour version that combines the best of all of them, or
maybe two or three versions (Generica builds lots of different ships,
after all).

  As for how I do the designs, I just pencil and paper it.  It's easy with
QSDS - The first one or two took a bit longer, but now it's as easy as
Book 2 used to be (at least that's the way it seems).  I use a calculator
to add up power and cost at the end, but otherwise am computer-free.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:04:52 -0000
From: "Dominic Reynolds" <nz19@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Damage - Blunt Trauma Query

If a character was wearing Diplo armour having a rating of
3 points, by an adversary using a big game rifle with a damage
rating of 6 -  Would they would take a maximum damage of either

a) 3d6 plus 3 points blunt trauma to a maximum of 21
or
b) 3d6 plus 3 points blunt trauma to a maximum of 18

This of course assumes the body part in which they were shot
was covered by the armour.

- --
Dominic Reynolds
nz19@dial.pipex.com 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:14:42 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Starship Troopers

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> 
> Those are supposed to be the Bugs.  all Warriors, no workers.

Figures.

> 
> >Not sure of how it releates to the novel, as, though I have it, I haven't
> >gottne around to reading it as yet.
> 
> Read it.  Immediately.

Right. RUN down to your local bookstore, spend your lunch money, sell
blood, whatever it takes . . . . But get a copy of _Starship Troopers_,
and read it. NOW. 

> 
> As for the movie; it's so bad that Virginia Heinlein (Robert's widow) is
> considering a lawsuit to get his name removed from the project.  How bad is
> it?  No power armor, none of the scenes where the morality of being a
> soldier is discussed (the heart of the book!), OCS has been cut, and the
> entire plot has been changed.
> 
> *Bleah*

Figures. If the movie reflects the typical Hollywierd view of the
military, then she should sue the bastards. Problem: when you sell movie
rights, you also sell a certain amount of creative control. "Ginnie" may
not have a legal leg to stand on, dash the luck.

- --Rich
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:20:59 -0700
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Alien Races...

Hi. Here is a list of Traveller Alien/Minor Races from an old HIWIG document.

MHR = Minor Human Race

Name          Source                  Home World/Subsector/Sector(Hex)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addaxur       Alien Module 4          ?/?/?
Ael Yael      JTAS 15                 Jaeyelya/?/Gushemege(0437)
Ahetaowa      Book 8                  ?/?/Ealiyasiyw(2604)
Answerin (MHR)Trav. Digest 5          Answerin/Parsi/Vland(0431)
Bwaps (Newts) JTAS 11                 Marhaban/Lentuli/Empty Quarter(0426)
Cafadans (MHR)Trav. Digest 3          Cafad/Sashrakusha/Corridor(3135)
Chirpers      Alien Module 5          ?/?/?
Darrians (MHR)JTAS 14, Alien Module 8 Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches(0627)
Dynchia       JTAS 15                 Melantris/Melantris/Leonidae(0633)
Ebokin        Trav. Adventure         Yebab/Aramis/Spinward Marches(3002)
Eliyoh        Trav. Digest 9          ?/?/?
Eshaar Ashah  Ordeal by Eshaar        Eshaar/Taemerlyk/Far Frontiers(1826)
Geonee (MHR)  Supplement 8            Shiwonee/Shiwonee/Massilia(1430)
Griug'Kagh    JTAS 21                 Kagh'kir/Kirarurr!ka/Ruupiin(1619)
Githiaskio    JTAS 16                 Githiaski/Dartho/Antares(2406)
Gl'lu         Trav Digest 1           Kubishush/Inar/Dened(0917)
Gurvin        Alien Module 7          ?/?/?
Happirhva     Far Travller 2          Rejhappur/Scotian Deep/Reaver's Deep(1218)
Hlanssai      JTAS 22                 Virirhlanz/?/?
H'Oskhikhil   Space Gamer 46,48,50,53 Storm/Riftdeep/Deaver's Deep(1404)
Ilthara       Planet Guide/Drexilthar Drexilthar/Drexilthar/Reaver's Deep(2618)
Irdu          Trav. Digest 3          Ishirdu/Two Worlds/Corridor(0338)
Irhadre (MHR) Alien Module 8          ?/?/Lishun
Ithklur       Alien Module 7          ?/?/?
J'aadje       Double Adv. 6           Gaajpadje/Ea/Reaver's Deep(1124)
Jessa         Rescue on Galatea       Galatea/Inverness/Far Frontiers(3228)
Jgd-Il-Jagd   JTAS 17                 Jagd/Sotri/Lishun(2307)
Kidulans      Grand Census            Kidulaar/?/Fornast(0819)
Kolzar        Trav. Digest 5          Wimore/Anakod/Vland(3129)
Lalendrians   JTAS 26 (Challenge 26)  Lalendriss/?/K'righeek
Languljigee   Planet Guide/Drexilthar Lajanjigal/Drexilthar/Reaver's Deep(1721)
Larianz       Spin. Marches Camp.     Byret/Mora/Spinward Marches(2523)
Llellewyloly  Trav. Adventure         Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches(3202)
Loeskalth (MHR) Imp. Encyclopedia     ?/?/Gushemege
Minlad        Trav. Digest 6          Kaiid/Shuna/Lishun(0621)
Mwawmbijebe   Alien Realms            Kualakhtaea/?/?
Prt'          JTAS 26 (Challenge 26)  Prt'/?/Spica
Sabmiqys      JTAS 28 (Challenge 28)  Sabmiqys/?/Antares(2117)
Satha         Rescue on Galatea       Galatea/Inverness/Far Frontiers(3228)
Shriekers     Adventure 10            567-908/District
268/SpinwardMarches(1031) Suerrat (MHR) Supplement 8            ?/?/Ilelish
Syleans (MHR) Trav. Digest 9          Capitol/Core/Core(2118)
Tahavi        Trav. Digest 5          Tohaver/Vland/Vland(2017)
Thorellians   Trav. Digest 12         Thorell/Nicosia/Old Expanses(0231)
Vegan         Supplement 11           ?/?/Ilelish
Virushi       JTAS 12                 Virshash/Urlaqqash/Reaver's Deep(2724)
Za'tachk      Alien Module 7          ?/?/?
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope it helps :)
Paul   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:23:10 -0800
From: "Rob Gillingham" <Farpoint@netcom.ca>
Subject: Combat vs robots/vehicles

 okee i've asked this a few times with no responce.... can someone please
 help me figure this out:
 
 Combat Vs Vehicles
 
 
 i follow all the rules.. till it hits the hit location.... my problem is
 how much damage (stuctural points) can engines,weapons,the hull of
 the vehicle..... etc take.... before it blows up...... see i want to use
 some
 robots but i'm not sure how the structual points work and how you
determine
 
 how much stuctual points a certain part of the robot/vehicle can take is
 there
 a formual for this?
 
 
 			Thanks for helping!
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:26:33 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Traveller on IRC

Greetings!

This week's topic is Planetology 101 by Doug Berry.  I'm really 
looking forward to this one!

We'll be on IG's server, www.imperiumgames.com, port 6665 or 6666 
beginning at 8:30pm EST. 

As always, if you have any problems with connecting to IRC, please 
let me know, I'll do my best to help you get online with us.

Please contact me if you have any suggestions for topics, can lead a 
discussion, or know someone who would be a good guest speaker.

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:27:24 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Combat vs robots/vehicles

Rob Gillingham wrote:
> 
>  i follow all the rules.. till it hits the hit location.... my problem is
>  how much damage (stuctural points) can engines,weapons,the hull of
>  the vehicle..... etc take.... before it blows up...... see i want to use
>  some
>  robots but i'm not sure how the structual points work and how you
> determine
> 
>  how much stuctual points a certain part of the robot/vehicle can take is
>  there
>  a formual for this?
> 

I have a related question. In MT, each form of locomotion has a damage
factor
associated with it. For example, a ship might have a jump of 3 and a
damage
factor of 30/60.  

In the Starship Combat rules, each "jump-1" hit reduces the jump drive
by
one UCP factor. Where does the damage factor come into play? The
existing rules
say that, after the first hit, my jump drive is now jump-2. When does
the 
"30/60" tally start getting used up?


- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:09:54 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Dice types

>   Why?  Is there something inherantly evil about D10s and D20s that
>I've been blinded to because of some spell cast on me by TSR during a
>visit to GenCon?  Is it that D10s and D20s are only available here in
>Ohio, and the rumors of their availability elsewhere are part of a
>diabolical TSR plot?

They are not always easy to find. You can always go to Fred Meyers or
Target and find d6's in 5-packs. Also, almost all kid's games have d6's, so
they are often around the house. Most mini's wargamers also have scads of
6's around. 6's are cheap, plentiful, and socially acceptable except in
millitary training areas.

>   I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
>why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
>D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
>please explain it to me?

We're not in japan, Harold... ;-) Seriously, though, d10's are the second
most common nowadays, courtesy of WWG, whose systems are d10 based. And the
Japanese use d10's for militarynsimulations. so I don't see why the strong
aversion, but the simple availability, familiarity, and prevalence of d6 is
probably a good bet for games not boxed with dice.


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:56:58 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD Runners-up!

> A small passanger-liner aimed at BudgetLines and similar operations,
>this design has the Passanger Bug bigtime. Fourty mid-passages may
>look good on paper, but a quick reality check shows that you're lucky
>to get _half_ that many on a hi-pop world. economicly unfeasable.

The design is economically unfeasible only if the Passenger Table is
considered to be the only way to get passengers.  You don't seriously believe
this do you?  

The Passenger Table wasn't mentioned as a design consideration.  I assumed
that the considerations for economic feasibility were what was mention in the
listing of economic information.  Similarly, despite the requirement for
Rescue Balls for ships licensed to carry passengers in the Imperium, I
assumed that this could be ignored since it wasn't mention as a design
consideration.

>Notes: The prime ship is awful - the second variant is much better,
>although costly.

I had though part of the propose of THUDDD was get some innovative designs
created.  With that in mind, I think that you are being very unfair in
calling my design awful.  I feel that it met the mission requirements,
despite it not being what is usually considered a far trader, which is why I
included a trader version of the ship.  Now, the reason the trader is costly
because it mounts a laser and an addition power plant, features that the
stereotypical player characters' ship will have.  

BTW what is BudgetLines?  It sounds like a starliner company that I'm not
familiar with.

Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:45:29 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Tasks and the label "Impossible"

I have seen and heard a lot of complaints about the task difficulty
labels... here's how I read them under MT, so that people understand where
my gripes come from:
	All tasks are based upon a professional level of skill, level 3, and
	average attribute.

The labels:
	Easy: for some one of professional skill, very much so
	routine: they can routinely do it (7+. with dm+4= 3+)
	Difficult: Gives pro's a bit of pause, but they can do it by the
		second attempt (11+, with dm+4= 7+)
	Formidable: Beyond the ability of the average novice, and problematic
		for the Pro. Only the most talented can do it as novices.
		(15+, with DM+4 =11+)
	Impossible: Even a pro cannot do it (19+, with DM+4, is still 15+),
		unless he takes extra time. The best in a field might be able
		to pull it off.

Under MWM and KB's systems, almost anyone with any skill can still pull of
the impossible, even though MT/TNE Impossible is now Staggering, and
Impossible is a level harder.
Assets under MWM's				Skill
Att	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
===========================================================================
1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11
3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13
5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14
6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15
7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16
8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17
9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18
10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19
11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20
12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21
13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22
14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23
15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24

Assets under KB1.1
Att	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
===========================================================================
1	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18
2,3	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19
4,5	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20
6,7	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21
7,9	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22
10,11	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23
12,13	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24
14,15	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25

Looking at Impossible, 6d vs asset, it is still possible for someone to do
it with Att 4, skill 2 under both systems (not bloody likely), but doable.
THIS IS WRONG!!! they don't meet the "professional" levels of MT, let
alone, accounting for the increased average skill level in primary field
under T4, meet the level 4 I consider proffessional in t4 (even though no
definitions exist as such past CT other than for MD's and Surgeons).

The definitions of the difficulties need to be re-worked.

Impossible SHOULD MEAN that it is beyond the abilities of the average
professional, or tasks should be re-defined so that it is explicit for WHAT
LEVEL of ability the Routine task is routine. (Heck, I had players making
4+ dice tasks under T4 without SKILL.)

BTW, Jack-o-t is WAY to powerfull under t4.


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:12:13 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: Marc's Task System

At 04:37 24/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
<snip, various ranting and flag waving>

> Here's the old Pilot example:
>
> Jane has Pilot-1, a beginner, but a natural ability, Dex-10.
> Paule has Pilot-4, a professional with a great deal of skill, but 
> natural ability of about average, Dex-6.
>
> Under T4 as written, Janes target number is 1, and Paule's target 
> number is 10. 
>
> Jane's natural ability has given her, a beginner,  a better success
>at piloting than a professional with great skill.  
>
> Under KBv1.1, this problem is fixed.  Jane's target number is 7 
> whereas Paule's target number is 11.
>
>Skill has overcome raw, untrained, natural ability.  First problem
>(with T4) solved.


How many people would the Airforce train to be a pilot with a  dex-6 (below
av). Not to many I would think. 

Who makes the better car driver? Someone with low dex(poor reflex) or
someone with high dex(good reflex)......

Now someone with a poor dex might eventually make a good pilot or car
driver, but in the process their dex would have increased(faster reflexes etc)


The same goes for all the other skills. people with high int make better
scientists. People with low int don't become scientists.etc etc 

Well thats my rant & flag waving.

PeteH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:26:31 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: After THUDDD

>> OK:  Now that the first THUDDD exposition is done, perhaps the contestants
>> would tell us how they designed their ships - esp. if they used a program
>> or spreadsheet, and perhaps make the programs/spreadsheets available on a
>> website?
>
>I used a spreadsheet, but it was pretty much just using it instead of a
>calculator...all the calculators in my house always seem to be dead..I
>have been known to fire up the Mac, just to use the calculator DA.
>
>I can post it, but there's nothing much to it...you enter all the values
>by hand, and I set aside a multiplier column for each thing that has
>multiples, like staterooms and workstations, but otherwise there isn't
>much difference between that and using pencil and paper.

My situation is much like Bruce's, the spreadsheet that I made for THUDDD 
was the first I've ever done (and I'm scared to say, almost as much fun as
making the ship... Oh, No! I"ve been infected with GEARHEADITIS! <g>)

It's really a very basic sheet that works really well for variants of one
ship. Cal-
culations are set up to figure out salaries, monthly costs and such, but most
values of ship componenets are entered by hand and it really just saves my
having to crunch all the numbers by hand. However, it was my first, it was fun
to do, and there's another THUDDD on, so try, try again! <G>

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #985
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 25 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 986



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek
Re: Returned mail: User unknown
Re: Marc's Task System
FYC: Another task idea
Re: Mini-survey
Re: Damage - Blunt Trauma Query
Re: Traveller on IRC
A modest proposal (task system)
Re: Deckplan Drawers
CT Stats for Mercenary Cruiser ("Happy Fun Ball")
Re: Combat vs robots/vehicles
Re: T4 task system (rebuttal)
Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
Re: T4 task system
Re: Dust/paint in vacuum
Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?
Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #980

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:36:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek

In a message dated 97-02-24 02:37:07 EST, you write:

>)  T'Pau could kick the Emperor's butt in a best of three falls iron
>cage grudge match.

You Know It!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:43:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown

In a message dated 97-02-24 16:26:18 EST, you write:

>>   I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
>>why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
>>D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
>>please explain it to me?
>
>Harold, you are such a heretic that it can't be explained to you.
> 
>--Glenn

I believe the word is heathen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:16:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Marc's Task System

 
> How many people would the Airforce train to be a pilot with a  dex-6 (below
> av). Not to many I would think. 

Who thinks that Dex would be the most important skill for a pilot in
traveller times?  Int would make more sense to me.  With the
exception of flying a fighter in atmosphere, dex wouldn't play much
role at all IMHO.  A trader will reenter and fly to within a few
klicks of the starport under computer control (it would now, for
that matter).

In space (in orbit, in particular) things are less intuitive than
you might think and Int would dominate pilot skill.  It's a problem
solving thing, not a dexterity thing.
 
> Who makes the better car driver? Someone with low dex(poor reflex) or
> someone with high dex(good reflex)......

At 100km/s if you count on your reflexes you're dead anyway.
 
> Now someone with a poor dex might eventually make a good pilot or car
> driver, but in the process their dex would have increased(faster reflexes etc)

Atmospheric piloting should be a different skill.  Are the skills
the same to take a cube root now (*with* your calculator) as they
were in the days of slide rules?  Doing it by tables?

I guess I see pilots more in a Heinlein/Clarke sense than in the Han
Solo sense.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:18:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: FYC: Another task idea

(FYC= For Your Consideration, by the way)

     Okay, since we seem to have reached an impasse wherein with the current
range of target numbers we can't realistically do away with the half-die, and
with our current range of dice we can't weigh skills higher than attributes
without requiring in-game division, I think it's time we tried upping the whole
scale:

NOTE:  I never claimed to have particularly good math-sense (notice my last
post where I made a pretty big statistical error) and I haven't done any
feasability studies on this; I'm just throwing out the ideas.

TARGET NUMBER= Attribute + (Skill*2) +/- DMs
     Skills would have to be limited to level-8 max, or thereabouts
     
DIFFICULTY TABLE
Easy/Simple       Auto (1D)
Average/Routine   2D
Difficult         3D
Formidable        4D
Staggering        6D
Near Impossible   8D

Has anybody else tried a similar system, and if so, what are the drawbacks?  I
can see two possible ones up-front: 1) Average tasks will be a cakewalk for
just about everybody, not just highly-skilled people; 2) Lots of dice and lots
of big DM numbers might scare people.
     I'd like someone to come up with some numbers on this to see how well
probabilities work compared to characters with similar att/skill levels under
MT, T4, and KBv1.1 to see how it does (or doesn't) hold up.
     And, of course, Spectacular results would have to be changed again, but
that can be worried about later/separately.

Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:23:56 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mini-survey

At 10:45 24/02/97 -0500, Susan M. Shock wrote:
>>Anyone want to help with 2 questions?
>>
>>The first factual to help my ignorance, the second opinion because I'm
>>curious.  If you want to reply off list and there's any interest, I'll
>>summarize the results.
>>
>>1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?
>
>According to Lawrence Schick's HEROIC WORLDS, Flying Buffalo published a
>SFRPG called "Starfaring" that came out a few months before Traveller. It
>was based on the Tunnels and Trolls rules and was not a serious game, and
>therefore virtually dissapeared from the market when Traveller (the first
>REAL SFRPG) appeared. it is also possible (although I'm not sure) that
>"Metamorphisis Alpha" (a.k.a. "D&D in Space") might have come out before
>Traveller, but I don't think so.
>
	I have the first 24 issues of White Dwarf magazine, a UK role playing
magazine that is now under Games Workshop's banner.

	Metamorphosis Alpha was reviewed in the June / July 1977 issue, and
Traveller was not reviewed until the April / May issue of 1978, almost a
year later. So if those review dates are similar to the UK release dates,
then M Alpha had almost a year in the UK to itself. I reckon there's no
reason why those dates wouldn't be too dissimilar to the US ones.

	Btw, I love Traveller because a lot of things can be logically explained,
like the scientific side of it. After playing AD&D for years my brain hurts
because something mentioned has to be remembered more than figured out,
whereas in Traveller things can be worked through to so many different
conclusions and uses. Well, I could explain that better and more at length
but it's like 1.00 a.m. here and I'm asleep ;-)

	Someone earlier also mentioned that many items in CSC have a lot of
background information, and while AD&D has this it just didn't seem to gel
as well. I don't mean to do any comparisons here, it's just that Traveller
has this smoothness of operation to it, despite the task problems.

	Anyway, why can't our characters be able to do impossible tasks more often
than the average guy? Okay, I know they have elevated skill and attribute
levels, but they have one extra thing, and it's that they are the ones that
the game universe revolves around. Couldn't these low impossible task
levels be down to the extra luck that a character enjoys?

	In sci-fi the heroes are always pulling off the impossible. What sort of
roll would Luke Skywalker have to make to swing across a retracted
drawbridge, with a woman in one hand, the rope in another, while being shot
at by supposedly trained Imperial Troopers that have the shooting accuracy
of the bad guys in the A-Team? Anyone? Okay, a minus for a moving target,
granted... And as for Han Solo's piloting thru' that asteroid
field...wow...And I remember Marc Singer in "V" running out of a building,
and turning and firing in one movement at a target about fifty yards away
that he had barely glimpsed _in the dark_ and making the kill! Well, "V"
was a bit problematic I guess, or maybe the example doesn't quite fit, but
we're playing the heroes, and they can do all sorts of wierd and wonderful
things.

	See ya...


Bruce E J Lewis

bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk , bejlewis@aol.com
Mobile Tel - 0956-506527          
From Barkingside, within the London home county of Essex, E N G L A N D

Spurs Ticket Info can be found at - http://web.ftech.net/~legend/fixtures.htm

Tottenham Hotspur - "Everybody will be singing..."
Paxton Road Stand - Block R, Row 14, Seat 58

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:41:19 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Damage - Blunt Trauma Query

At 09:04 PM 2/24/97 -0000, Dominic Reynolds wrote:

>If a character was wearing Diplo armour having a rating of
>3 points, by an adversary using a big game rifle with a damage
>rating of 6 -  Would they would take a maximum damage of either

>a) 3d6 plus 3 points blunt trauma to a maximum of 21


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
| "I will not have my spleen serve the Zionists!" |
|                             -Bill Turnbow       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:41:25 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller on IRC

At 03:26 PM 2/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>This week's topic is Planetology 101 by Doug Berry.  I'm really 
>looking forward to this one!

Which reminds me that there is a web page with some of the formula we'll be
using at:

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/irctext.html

If you'd like me to mail you a copy, mail me *privately* and I'll send you a
.txt copy.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
| "I will not have my spleen serve the Zionists!" |
|                             -Bill Turnbow       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:57:05 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: A modest proposal (task system)

Allen M. Shock wrote:

>
>>For that Allen guy who considered those wanting only D6 to be old
>>nostalgics comparable to AD&D players lighten up. The old 70' and 80' games
>>used D100, D20 et c (like AD&D) but modern games (like them or not) use D6
>>like Warhammer, StarWars et c.
>
>Obviously I didn't type the qualifying statement "SOME people" in big enough
>letters. Anyone know how to make Eudora do flashing neon?
>
>Seriously, I have NO PROBLEM with people who prefer d6's for aesthetic
>reasons. My favorite game system apart from Traveller is GURPS, which uses
>nothing but d6's! My admittedly sarcastic response to Harold's post was
>aimed at those FEW (please not the qualifier FEW) whose adherence to d6's
>and loathing hatred for the d3 is based on an unwillingness to accept
>change. (By the way, WW's storyteller system is a modern system and it uses
>d10's.)


        Some of my friends and I had this email convo about the feasibility
of using StoryTeller to run a Trav campaign today...  Personally, I think
it would work extremely well; it's lean, mean, intuitive, and what's more,
produces increasing likelihoods of spectacular failures at the extreme high
end of the spectrum (nice for players going up against really bad bad guys,
and it keeps the powergamers down).  And conversion would be extremely
easy...

        Capsule version: stats and attributes are expressed  as dots along
a 1-5 scale (that can be exceeded by powerful NPCs or if you're a
munchkin).  1 d10 per dot is rolled on task rolls; if Vladimir Nastikov has
stat: **** and skill: ****, he has a dice pool of 8 dice.  Target numbers
range from 2 (dirt easy) to 10 (bloody difficult).  A die roll equal to or
higher than its target number is called a "success".  Depending on the
task, one success can be plenty; for more complex or difficult tasks, three
successes are required for full success.  More result in a spectacular
success.

        Target number can be determined by a) GM diktat, b) opposing
character's stat, c) weapons rules.  And the die pool can be split; let's
say Vladimir is trying to whack Bob Victim with a 2X4 (diff 4, so he has a
70% chance of success of rolling it or higher on a single d10); he can make
either 1 attempt using all his dice pool (giving him virtually assured
success), 2 using half his die pool giving him a reasonable chance of
making two damage rolls, and so forth.  So the higher the stat and/or
skill, the higher the chance of success or the more chances at succeeding.

        Opposing rolls can be made, say in this case Bob Victim's Dex and
Dodge vs Vladimir's Dex and Melee...  Obviously, if Bob only has Dex:***
and Dodge:**, and Vladimir has Dex:**** Melee:***, Vladimir is likely to
whack Bob, especially as target number for melee attacks is 4 and for
dodging is 6.  However, if Bob has a knife in his hand and Melee:**, he can
choose to spend three dice on dodging Vladimir's first swing, and two dice
on slashing him.  Vladimir could likewise use some dice to Dodge too...

        Extended tasks can be handled by requiring the player to hit an
arbitrary number of successes (i.e. d10 rolling target or higher), at an
arbitrary number of units of time per roll of his full die pool.
Cooperative tasks of this sort can have both characters combinging their
successes.  And injury subtracts dice from their pools.

        Rolls of 1 subtract successes... and if you get more 1's than
successes, you've "Botched", i.e. achieved a critical failure.  Rolls of 10
are successes, and what's more, permit you to re-roll that die in an
attempt to get further successes

        Personally, and here I will don my TL-21 vampire, flame, and
frac-cee rock proof jammies, I think it's superior to both the MT and T4
systems.  If a major revision of the task system is in the works, rather
than tweak an old and somewhat inelegant (I mean, d3's?) d6 based system,
Marc might do well to look at what White Wolf has been using... after all,
it's only the task system for the hottest-selling RPGs in recent years.
While task system isn't everything, it sure doesn't hurt repeat sales...
While Marc couldn't rip it off, he might be able to get some ideas for
streamlining out of it.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:08:11 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplan Drawers

Hugh Johnson wrote:
>         Now that I'm beginning to get the hang of how this computer (or what I
> once called a giant paperweight) works, I was wondering what type of
> programs others used to draw their starship deckplans. 

Geez, I must be tired, I thought this was going to be a promo on boxer shorts with starships 
drawn on them (some sort of weird promo)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:38:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: CT Stats for Mercenary Cruiser ("Happy Fun Ball")

  Since I assume that most folks don't have a copy of JTAS #8, here is
some info on the classic version of the Happy Fun Ball:


Broadsword-Class Mercenary Cruiser
Designed by Marc W. Miller

800 Ton Spherical Hull, Streamlined*, TL 12
Cost= 632.68MCr
Jump 3, Manuever 3
Fuel for Jump 3
Cargo = 80**
Crew= 13, Troops= 31***, High Passengers (Owner/Company Rep)= 1

Command= 2 (Captain, Troop Commander), Engineer= 5, Navigator= 1
Gunner= 4, Medical=1 (3 medics are included in ship's troops)

Sick Bay with 4 beds; Surgical suite


Armament:
   4x Triple Laser Turret
   4x Triple Missile Turrets

Ship's Vehicles:
   2x 50T Modular Cutters
        2 modules are carried on board, 2 more attached to cutters****
   1x Air Raft


* In T4 terms.  According to the description, it's unstreamlined, but can
  scoop fuel and land on vac planets due to lack of external projections.
** This is in addition to the 60 tons used for cutter module storage.
   There are two bays of 18 tons and three smaller ones of 8 tons for
   general cargo space, as well as an "Armory" that looks to be about 8
   tons. There is also a 2 ton "Secure Vault" for "pilferable items,
   novelties, drugs, weapons and ammunition, alcohol, and radioactives."
   I can't find the other 10 tons of cargo space on the deck plans.
*** Most are housed in the equivalent of small staterooms.
**** There are 8 standard modules available:
	1) ATV Cradle: Holds one ATV
	2) Personel Transport: Seats for up to 60 people
	3) Cargo: 25 tons, plus 10 passenger seats
	4) Fuel Skimmer: Holds 28 tons of fuel
	5) Assault module: Holds 16 troops in 2 sections; module digs
		holes for the troops to hide in (really!).
	6) Preasurized Shelter: Living Quarters for 8 persons
	7) Weapons module: Holds weapon for orbital fire support
	8) Fighter Frame: Holds 4 six ton fighters
   
    The Broadsword comes with one each of 1 (containing an ATV), 3,
   5, and 8 (containing 4 fighters).  The above price reflects these
   included modules.

   A stripped down version (no weapons, armor, or cutter modules) costs
   476.40MCr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

COMMENTS:  
  In space combat, this ship is well armed compared to
the average CT merchant ship.  My players would have loved to get their
hands on this much firepower!  Then again, I ran a low-power campaign.
Compared to your average Navy ship, the Broadsword is not that tough,
especially in its basic form w/o armor.  Ideally, it operates in a low
threat environment - if serious warships show up, it's time to haul ass.
  The price should give us some idea of what "affordable" means in this
context.
  This ship cannot be built using QSDS 1.4 (I tried).  The two modular
cutters can't fit inside, and there isn't enough space outside to strap
them on.  In the CT version, the cutters stick out the back of the ship; I
guess one could fudge things by using a smaller than required hanger bay.
I'm going to try again using QSDS 1.5 - I'll post the result in a few
days. 

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:07:35 +0800
From: crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew)
Subject: Re: Combat vs robots/vehicles

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:

>I have a related question. In MT, each form of locomotion has a damage
>factor associated with it. For example, a ship might have a jump of
>3 and a damage factor of 30/60.
>
>In the Starship Combat rules, each "jump-1" hit reduces the jump drive
>by one UCP factor. Where does the damage factor come into play? The
>existing rules say that, after the first hit, my jump drive is now
>jump-2. When does the "30/60" tally start getting used up?
>

In MT the 30/60 is only used in vehicle combat, say a tank fires at your
starship.  You also have to multiply all the numbers by 10 or that tank is
pretty deadly to your starship.  Once you multiply them by 10 though your
starship is pretty much immune (for short periods) to anything short of
starship weapons (surprise!).

On the other hand take your average groundcar. It has a hull value of '1/2'
and if you don't use the x10 multiplier is made inoperative by ANY bullet
that penetrates. Use the x10 multiplier and it has a hull value of 10/20
and only a +8 success will render it inoperative in one hit - more
realistic IMHO.  It also has the locomotion and power plant damage factors
which all come into play in vehicle combat.

In short for starships the numbers are quite useless.  For vehicles they
make a lot of sense.

David Crew
crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:45:17 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4 task system (rebuttal)

On 02/24/97 at 03:03 AM,  "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com> said:

> No 1/2 dice and 6D Impossible tasks is a better solution.   

Yeah! What you say!

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 22:15:20 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

On 02/24/97 at 05:16 AM,  "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

> I have no problem with the difficulty being called Impossible, but  then
> again, Incredible is fine too.

> We all know, or should know, that the Impossible category means  really,
> really, #$@^&! hard--not a 0.00% chance of accomplishing the  task.

Ken, you know that...and I know that, <g>  but clearly some folks think
Impossible means Impossible not Incredibly Hard.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:52:04 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4 task system

On 02/24/97 at 05:16 AM,  "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

> > I'm not going to argue *for* Ken's plan..he can do that without my help.
> > <g>

> So, you're saying I'm opinionated?

Yeth!  Are you saying you aren't?

> Hmpf.

Hee!

> > Either way, though, I think most of the folks discussing tasks on the list
> > would like to see the the balance in target numbers shift from mostly
> > Characteristics to more Skills..and less
> > Characteristics. 

> Yes-sir-re-bob.

My "most of the folks" is causing the other side to de-lurk, so prepare to
hear "Attributes are good!  Attributes are your friend!" now. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:26:56 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Dust/paint in vacuum

At 10:57 am 02/24/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>This should work fine.. not however that the smoke will spread out faster,
>>and thin faster than in an atmosphere.  Using paint grenades, while messy,
>>could disable boarders.  Cans of spray-paint could also work.
>
>Smoke and paint droplets in vacuum would behave as freemoving particles.
>Each droplet/particle would move in a straight line and then bounce or
>cling. I'd say it woyld be useless except to aim at somebody like a

		In a vacuum UNDER ZERO G! I may have missed that part of the original
question, and you kind of answered it, but I wanted to reemphasize. In a
vacuum under gravity, the smoke and paint droplets are going to fall at
exactly the same acceleration as a large rock.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:23:46 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?

Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM> writes:

>Olympic skaters train for the EDGE over other trained skaters.  Skating
>FOUR plus natural ability make for good skaters (know any world class
>skaters that don't have a naturally HIGH dexterity and endurance?  I've
>never heard of one... Not even of "so-so natural ability".  They were all
>"buff" before they began training, usually right around birth, or just
>before.  OR they developed those stats in conjunction with their skill
>training...  It's not as if they stop developing DEX and END while
>practicing whatever it is that skaters have to be skilled at, like watching
>the ice, or something...  Maybe it's all natural ability and no skill at
>all, perhaps we just need a few more stats in Traveller! ;-)

But are all olympic skaters also the best fencers, sharpshooters, starship
pilots, race car drivers, and etc.? Because that's what the T4 task system
makes them. Frankly, I have no opinion on the 'nature vs. nurture' debate,
the only thing I am arguing about is a role-playing game. I play them to
have fun, and the existing task system is not fun.

Because the typical character has much higher numbers for attributes than
for skills, and since attributes get used a lot more often than skills, the
effect is that characters are defined by their attributes, not skills.
Characters who happened to have made one good roll generating attributes
are able to do practically any task at all based on the same attribute,
even an 'impossible' task with negative modifiers, while having only a
skill of 1. As a GM, this is not fun; I have no way to gauge the difficulty
of tasks or tailor tasks for specific characters. It is also very boring;
character tend to fall into Edu-class, Int-class, or Dex-class; whose
members are effectively interchangable.

It's not fun for players, either. The player who made one bad roll at
character generation will never be able to recover, he or she will sit out
the rest of the campaign fuming as the one or two 'star' characters do
everything, or keep rerolling until he or she gets a 'star' also, or just
drop out. It doesn't matter what your skills or history are, a character
with 15 Edu (absurdly easy to get, by the way) will just blow you away at
everything unless you manage to get your skill level up to 20 or so (which
doesn't happen in my campaign). Even the high-attribute characters get
ripped off; because they are expert in everything they have no
individuality and are boring to play.

Do I like rolling 1/2 dice and doing arithmetic for every task roll? No.
But I like playing an RPG which ties the hands of the GM and bores the
players even less. I mean no disrespect to IG or Marc Miller, but priority
1 has got to be to make the game fun and enjoyable.

Richard Hough

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:27:01 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

At 03:54 am 02/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>    No offense to Kenneth, but it just has to be said....
>> 
>>    I've seen a number of people here propose any number of fixes to the
>> T4 system, and I have come to a conclusion: most Traveller players and
>> referees are totally fixated on using D6 (and its bastard cousin, D3). 
>> So much so, they would rather come up with complicated formulas, native
>> ritual dances, or semi-mystical chant spells so that they can use D6s
>> instead of some other form of dice.
>> 
>>    Why?  Is there something inherantly evil about D10s and D20s that
>
>[snip]
>
>>    I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
>> why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
>> D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
>> please explain it to me?
>
>It is hard to say this to someone who doesn't get it Harold, but here 
>it is.  Traveller IS D6's just like D&d is D20's.

	Really? To me Traveller is a SCIENCE fiction game, as opposed to "Space
Fantasy." The specific mechanics weren't the primary attraction, it was the
feel. Each incarnation of the Traveller rules tried to pay at least passing
notice to reality. Not that I don't like fantasy RPGing. But when I play
fantasy, I prefer not to try to disguise it by abusing the SF label. But
then I've long since come to the conclusion that I'm Not Like Anybody Else.

	Agreed, the d20 gagged me when I first opened my TNE box, but instead of
immediately trying to bash it out, I tried using it. I really came to like
it, although I modified the task system. While I'm rooting for Marc's T4.5
or whatever it'll be, right now I'm sticking with TNE rules (bashed to my
own taste, but then who plays stock rules?).

	Second to the "verisimilitude" of Traveller is the setting. Frankly, I
could care less about d3/d4/d6/d8/d12/d20/d36/d100. All I want is to be
able to use ONE kind of die for 99% of my rolls as a referee, and all of my
rolls as a player.

	And can somebody explain to me why a "bell-shaped probability curve" is
the One True Way? Seriously, folks, you can't even justify any of the
probabilities for any of the tasks based on reality, other than handwaving
and "it feels right." I'm sitting here with a handgun. Can you tell me what
my true chances of hitting my front door are? Or even define what "true
chance" means? It's a game. Some people like bell-shaped curves for
aesthetic reasons, some can live with or without them. As long as things
that to me fall into a hierarchy of difficulty in real life fall in the
same order in the game, and the general feel seems right, more power to you.

	Oh, and I agree with those who want a task system that gives SOME tilt
towards skills vs. attributes. For those of you heretical baby-sacrificing,
devil worshipping, pot-smoking, wife-beating, tax-cheating, wrong-headed
TNE weirdos who agree, I've got my modified system posted on my Web site.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 97 22:52:14 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #980

TheGlenn Grant wrote:

>I would like to hear from anyone out there who has play-tested this system
>- - how did it work? Any problems? I haven't had much chance to try it in
a
>real game - I'm still working up my campaign, while playing in Roderick's.

Yes, I've tried it with my game group.  We converted from TNE to T4 (same
era, new rules) about a month ago (haven't been able to play since then)
and decided to use your system instead of the T4 system.  I added one minor
modification, though.  Instead of rolling two dice, we use three - one red
(the "tens" die), one black (the "ones" die) and a white one which is only
used to score for criticals.  Any result of triples is a critical result,
and success or failure depends on what target number was needed.  Of
course, a result of 1-1-1 automatically succeeds and a roll of 6-6-6
(oooooooh, scary) automatically fails.

Anyway, the system worked pretty well.  There are four PCs in the party,
three of whom are well educated, technical specialist types and one who is
a "jack of all trades, master of none" sort.  Some representative skills
and attribs:

		  High Stat & Skill		Low Stat & Skill		
	PC 1:  Dex-11, Pilot-8		Str-6, Brawling-2
	PC 2:  Edu-12, Computer-5	Str-8, Brawling-2
	PC 3:  Dex-10, Brawling-5	Edu-9, Metallurgy-1
	PC 4:  Edu-13, Engineering-9	Soc-8, Carousing-1

I realize the high skill levels are a bit excessive in two cases, but we
couldn't settle on a reasonable conversion from TNE to T4, so we left them
"as is."  This way, they make really good examples of extremes.  Anyway.

PC 1 gets a bonus of (Dex-7)+16 = +20 (+32 base 6) to his highest skill and
(Str-7)+4 = +3 (+3 base 6) to his lowest skill.

PC 2 gets (Edu-7)+10 = +15 (+23 base 6) to her highest and (Str-7)+4 = +5
to her lowest.

PC 3 gets (Dex-7)+10 = +13 (+21 base 6) to his highest and (Edu-7)+2 = +3
to his lowest.

PC 4 gets (Edu-7)+18 = +24 (+40 base 6) to her highest and (Soc-7)+2 = +3
to her lowest.

On the whole, we found the system to be very well weighted.  The emphasis
on skills seems at first to be a bit heavy when you consider case #4, but
anyone with that combination of skill and stat really should have no excuse
for failure.   
After all, this produces a base target number distribution that looks like
this:
	Easy:		66- (65-)
	Routine:		66- (65-)
	Difficult:	66- (65-)
	Formidable:	66- (65-)
	Staggering:	56-
	Impossible:	46-
Truly an Engineering Goddess.
In more reasonable situations, the system worked very well.  For example,
take case #4, lowest:
	Easy:		63-
	Routine:		53-
	Difficult:	43-
	Formidable:	33-
	Staggering:	23-
	Impossible:	13-
I leave it to others to calculate the actual probabilities.

Anyway, we were very satisfied with the 2D task system (3D? whatever...)
and I intend to use it in any games I run in the future.


Jeff
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #986
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 25 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 987



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #980
Re: Top Ten
Re: Top Ten
Re: Combat vs robots/vehicles
Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?
A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: Spectacular Results (new)
Re: Messing with Tasks
Re: Another Task System
attributes vs skill level
Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Diff Progression
Bustard Two to all Bustard callsigns
Bell Curves and Realism

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 97 22:52:14 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #980

TheGlenn Grant wrote:

>I would like to hear from anyone out there who has play-tested this system
>- - how did it work? Any problems? I haven't had much chance to try it in
a
>real game - I'm still working up my campaign, while playing in Roderick's.

Yes, I've tried it with my game group.  We converted from TNE to T4 (same
era, new rules) about a month ago (haven't been able to play since then)
and decided to use your system instead of the T4 system.  I added one minor
modification, though.  Instead of rolling two dice, we use three - one red
(the "tens" die), one black (the "ones" die) and a white one which is only
used to score for criticals.  Any result of triples is a critical result,
and success or failure depends on what target number was needed.  Of
course, a result of 1-1-1 automatically succeeds and a roll of 6-6-6
(oooooooh, scary) automatically fails.

Anyway, the system worked pretty well.  There are four PCs in the party,
three of whom are well educated, technical specialist types and one who is
a "jack of all trades, master of none" sort.  Some representative skills
and attribs:

		  High Stat & Skill		Low Stat & Skill		
	PC 1:  Dex-11, Pilot-8		Str-6, Brawling-2
	PC 2:  Edu-12, Computer-5	Str-8, Brawling-2
	PC 3:  Dex-10, Brawling-5	Edu-9, Metallurgy-1
	PC 4:  Edu-13, Engineering-9	Soc-8, Carousing-1

I realize the high skill levels are a bit excessive in two cases, but we
couldn't settle on a reasonable conversion from TNE to T4, so we left them
"as is."  This way, they make really good examples of extremes.  Anyway.

PC 1 gets a bonus of (Dex-7)+16 = +20 (+32 base 6) to his highest skill and
(Str-7)+4 = +3 (+3 base 6) to his lowest skill.

PC 2 gets (Edu-7)+10 = +15 (+23 base 6) to her highest and (Str-7)+4 = +5
to her lowest.

PC 3 gets (Dex-7)+10 = +13 (+21 base 6) to his highest and (Edu-7)+2 = +3
to his lowest.

PC 4 gets (Edu-7)+18 = +24 (+40 base 6) to her highest and (Soc-7)+2 = +3
to her lowest.

On the whole, we found the system to be very well weighted.  The emphasis
on skills seems at first to be a bit heavy when you consider case #4, but
anyone with that combination of skill and stat really should have no excuse
for failure.   
After all, this produces a base target number distribution that looks like
this:
	Easy:		66- (65-)
	Routine:		66- (65-)
	Difficult:	66- (65-)
	Formidable:	66- (65-)
	Staggering:	56-
	Impossible:	46-
Truly an Engineering Goddess.
In more reasonable situations, the system worked very well.  For example,
take case #4, lowest:
	Easy:		63-
	Routine:		53-
	Difficult:	43-
	Formidable:	33-
	Staggering:	23-
	Impossible:	13-
I leave it to others to calculate the actual probabilities.

Anyway, we were very satisfied with the 2D task system (3D? whatever...)
and I intend to use it in any games I run in the future.


Jeff
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 97 17:13:33 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: Top Ten

Oooh, feeling a little defensive today?  Okay, I'm a Star Trek/Wars fan.
I'll bite... ;)

>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:39:16 -0500
>From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek
>
>odysseus@novia.net writes:
>
>>       Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Wars Characters
>>       Would Kick Butt in the Star Trek Universe
>
>   Oh yeah?  Well here are the Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Trek
>Characters Would Kick Butt in the Star Wars Universe
>
>10) Stormtroopers have a worse aim than Starfleet Security personnel,
>and die in larger quanities.

But at least they get more than one shot off before they bite it.  They'd
also overwhelm the Starfleet Redshirts with sheer numbers.  Don't forget
also, the Stormtroopers shoot better when they're aiming at bit characters
than when they're shooting at heroes.

>9)  The Enterprise can time travel back to the era when Darth Vader and
>the Emperor were nobodies, kill them, and avoid this whole evil Galactic
>Empire business in the first place.

Except for that little "prime directive" thing.  Kinda cramps your style. 
Besides, the Federation is too nicey-nice to use time travel for
assassination purposes.

>8)  Wesley Crusher, boy genius. 'Nough said.

In the words of Star Fleet crewmembers and Star Trek fans everywhere, "Shut
up, Wesley!"  And "deus-ex-machina boy" doesn't have the Force as his ally.

>7)  It only takes one missile in Star Trek to cause a star to nova and
>wipe out an entire solar system, but the Galactic Empire has to hire a
>crew of thousands and build a weapons platform the size of a moon to
>blow up one measley little planet.

And yet, photon torpedoes can't seem to do more than short out the bridge
controls and maybe kill a few redshirts.  The Death Star would blast the
Enterprise into tiny, glowing cinders with a single shot from its main
laser, and still have enough power to finish off the Defiant, and most of
the rest of Starfleet.

>6)  Captain Kirk might sleep with almost everything wearing a skirt, but
>at least he doesn't almost commit incest with his sister.

Two kisses in two seperate movies do not an incestuous relationship make,
or even a potential one - this ridiculous point has been argued numerous
times.  Luke NEVER slept with Leia.  He never even got close.  Besides,
considering how many women Kirk has slept with over the years, how do we
/know/ he's never committed incest?  How does HE know, for that matter?

>5)  Bat'telhs are more fun than lightsabers--the blood of your enemies
>gleams on the blade while you observe the firelight of your enemies'
>burning homes.

Okay, I'll give you this one.

>4)  You call R2-D2 and C-3PO droids?  Ha!  Any one of the female robots
>in classic Trek would make a better traveling companion, and for the
>females in the crowd, Data can out perform any Star Wars robots, both in
>and out of bed.

This one too.

>3)  Jem 'Hedar warriors would not be defeated by a bunch of teddy bears
>with rocks and spears.

All right, all right... So you get at third.  :)

>2)  So maybe Han Solo out flies Captain Picard, but at least Picard can
>find the homeworld of Humanity on a map.

It's a location thing - Solo doesn't NEED to find Earth.  Picard does. 
After all, he's the only one who's ever around to save the Federation every
time some Starfleet bureaucrat files the wrong paperwork and sells the Sol
system to the Dominion or something. 

>1)  T'Pau could kick the Emperor's butt in a best of three falls iron
>cage grudge match.

Except for that nasty, nasty Force Lightning.  And the Emperor would suck
the lifeforce from that green-blooded <censored McCoyism> in a heartbeat.
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>
>------------------------------
>

Yours in fun,

Jeff


- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 97 17:13:33 -0500
From: "odysseus@novia.net"<odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: Re: Top Ten

Oooh, feeling a little defensive today?  Okay, I'm a Star Trek/Wars fan.
I'll bite... ;)

>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:39:16 -0500
>From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Top Ten StarWars vs Trek
>
>odysseus@novia.net writes:
>
>>       Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Wars Characters
>>       Would Kick Butt in the Star Trek Universe
>
>   Oh yeah?  Well here are the Top Ten Reasons Why the Star Trek
>Characters Would Kick Butt in the Star Wars Universe
>
>10) Stormtroopers have a worse aim than Starfleet Security personnel,
>and die in larger quanities.

But at least they get more than one shot off before they bite it.  They'd
also overwhelm the Starfleet Redshirts with sheer numbers.  Don't forget
also, the Stormtroopers shoot better when they're aiming at bit characters
than when they're shooting at heroes.

>9)  The Enterprise can time travel back to the era when Darth Vader and
>the Emperor were nobodies, kill them, and avoid this whole evil Galactic
>Empire business in the first place.

Except for that little "prime directive" thing.  Kinda cramps your style. 
Besides, the Federation is too nicey-nice to use time travel for
assassination purposes.

>8)  Wesley Crusher, boy genius. 'Nough said.

In the words of Star Fleet crewmembers and Star Trek fans everywhere, "Shut
up, Wesley!"  And "deus-ex-machina boy" doesn't have the Force as his ally.

>7)  It only takes one missile in Star Trek to cause a star to nova and
>wipe out an entire solar system, but the Galactic Empire has to hire a
>crew of thousands and build a weapons platform the size of a moon to
>blow up one measley little planet.

And yet, photon torpedoes can't seem to do more than short out the bridge
controls and maybe kill a few redshirts.  The Death Star would blast the
Enterprise into tiny, glowing cinders with a single shot from its main
laser, and still have enough power to finish off the Defiant, and most of
the rest of Starfleet.

>6)  Captain Kirk might sleep with almost everything wearing a skirt, but
>at least he doesn't almost commit incest with his sister.

Two kisses in two seperate movies do not an incestuous relationship make,
or even a potential one - this ridiculous point has been argued numerous
times.  Luke NEVER slept with Leia.  He never even got close.  Besides,
considering how many women Kirk has slept with over the years, how do we
/know/ he's never committed incest?  How does HE know, for that matter?

>5)  Bat'telhs are more fun than lightsabers--the blood of your enemies
>gleams on the blade while you observe the firelight of your enemies'
>burning homes.

Okay, I'll give you this one.

>4)  You call R2-D2 and C-3PO droids?  Ha!  Any one of the female robots
>in classic Trek would make a better traveling companion, and for the
>females in the crowd, Data can out perform any Star Wars robots, both in
>and out of bed.

This one too.

>3)  Jem 'Hedar warriors would not be defeated by a bunch of teddy bears
>with rocks and spears.

All right, all right... So you get at third.  :)

>2)  So maybe Han Solo out flies Captain Picard, but at least Picard can
>find the homeworld of Humanity on a map.

It's a location thing - Solo doesn't NEED to find Earth.  Picard does. 
After all, he's the only one who's ever around to save the Federation every
time some Starfleet bureaucrat files the wrong paperwork and sells the Sol
system to the Dominion or something. 

>1)  T'Pau could kick the Emperor's butt in a best of three falls iron
>cage grudge match.

Except for that nasty, nasty Force Lightning.  And the Emperor would suck
the lifeforce from that green-blooded <censored McCoyism> in a heartbeat.
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>
>------------------------------
>

Yours in fun,

Jeff


- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\      "Anybody got a Q-tip?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________
        odysseus@novia.net
  http://www.novia.net/~odysseus/
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:39:02 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Combat vs robots/vehicles

David Crew wrote:
> 
> In MT the 30/60 is only used in vehicle combat, say a tank fires at your
> starship.  You also have to multiply all the numbers by 10 or that tank is
> pretty deadly to your starship.  Once you multiply them by 10 though your
> starship is pretty much immune (for short periods) to anything short of
> starship weapons (surprise!).
> 

Thanks for the timely response! Your explanation makes things more
clear. I'm going to go through my vehicles list and multiply the
damage by 10.


- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 00:16:40 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?

Rob, most GM's don't want the players to fail..too often.  Why do you ask?
;->

On 02/24/97 at 09:02 AM,  Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM> said:

> Natural talent is the basis for ANY training whatsoever.  "If thou has
> niescht the ability, thou wilt niescht develop any skill..."  [Pardon the
> poor spelling, and abuse, of German.  The author has no formal training,
> ability, or any other experience with the language, he just thinks it
> sounds kewl.  -ed.]

Hey, I agree with you!  That's why I argue in favor of increases in skills
being based on aptitude for that skill.  I'd *like* to have skills increase
by a variable amount based on naturally how good a character would be in
that area.  THAT'S how I'd like to tie Attributes to Skills.  I don't seem
to have many takers though. <g>

My simple version is to give each skill an Aptitude of -1, 0, or 1 (roll
1d3-2), and increase skill points by 1d3+Aptitude.  This has the advantage
of not having a high EDU Attribute make a character exceptional at *dozens*
of skills just because of the EDU.

Another version is to have each skill tied to a controlling
Attribute, and use the table:

 Attribute  Aptitude     [The only problem with this is
 ====================     *somebody* has to come up with
    1-5       -1          what the controlling Attribute
    6-9        0          for each Skill is, and publish
    10+       +1          the list.]
    
And increase skill points by 1d3+Aptitude! <g>

With either version, during game play, I'd add the
Skill+Attribute=Target_Number. the Attribute wouldn't have to be the
controlling Attribute, just one appropriate for the task.

I also use 1/2/3/4/5/6 dice...and I might add 7d, oh and 3d is average not
2d in my system.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:54:52 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

Kenneth Bearden writes:

>It is hard to say this to someone who doesn't get it Harold, but here 
>it is.  Traveller IS D6's just like D&d is D20's.

   I was under the impression that Traveller was a science-fiction RPG,
but this would explain a few things...

>When TNE came out and used, gag, D20's, I spent months converting the 
>TNE task system to D6's.
>
>Why?  Because it is just not Traveller without them.

   To me Traveller is not about what dice you use, but it is a way to
role-play, with a well defined setting that has a highly detailed
background--even if that setting and/or background was created by a
referee and not by GDW.

Allen writes:

>Sure Harold, it's like this...
>
>For SOME people (not all but SOME), Traveller is a nostalgia trip. 
>Thus, efficiency and logic don't enter into the discussion; they want 
>their Traveller exactly the way it used to be!

   <snip>

   Ah, but we both know that you can never really go home again.  Some
of the CT fans are only now finding this out.  

>It is true that some new players can get confused with multiple 
>types and sizes of dice, at least for the first couple of sessions. 
>But if Marc suddenly decided tomorrow that Traveller needs to use 
>d30's, that wouldn't bother me either, because to me the play's
>the thing. I could care LESS what kind of dice Traveller uses.

   So it's not so much what you're used to, but how flexible you are in
your thinking...dangerous thoughts for some.

William F. Hostman writes:

>They are not always easy to find. You can always go to Fred Meyers or
>Target and find d6's in 5-packs. Also, almost all kid's games have 
>d6's, so they are often around the house. Most mini's wargamers also 
>have scads of 6's around. 6's are cheap, plentiful, and socially 
>acceptable except in millitary training areas.

   This may have been true c.1980, but dice with more than 6 sides have
been widely available for a number of years now.  Of course you might
have to lower yourself and be seen actually entering a *gamestore* (one
of those places all those darn kids hang out in), but even that's no
longer a barrier with the Internet in place and companies taking phone
orders.

   No, I'm hearing strong *emotional* arguments for D6, but no *logical*
ones.  Can it be that there aren't any?

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:53:26 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Spectacular Results (new)

> Though I admire Ken's task fix, I get the feeling if he had his way, no
> nasty math would be required.

True. 

KBv1.1 was designed to fix the T4 problems--not create a new system.

Now that Marc has opened the door to improving the task system, it 
has allowed me to think in another direction.

I have an idea that would eliminate the math, get rid of the half 
die, and still provide good numbers while making skills more 
important to the target number.

Sound impossible?  Well, I might have just made my throw.

Well see as soon as I run some analysis.

If it works, I'll call it KBv2.0, and we'll take Marc by storm with 
it.

Wish me luck.


Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:53:24 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Messing with Tasks

  Is there
> REALLY no way to stick to whole-dice, remain relatively close to the current
> system, and get a desirable probability spread?


Maybe not.  I've got an idea--a good idea--that may let us have our 
cake and eat it too.

It's a prototype for KBv2.0, and the goals are:

	1) Leveling the field between attributes and skills--like KBv1.1.

	2) Reducing the "math" step to something even more simple, like the 
	addition in the original T4 system.

	3) Getting rid of those pesky little half die.

	4) Keeping the harder difficulty levels hard.

I hope like hell I can pull this off.  It seems to be what we all 
want.  I'll let you in on KBv2.0 after I run some numbers/do some 
analysis.

Kenneth.
"Your sometime task guru."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:53:28 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Another Task System

> Target number = Skill + (Attribute/2)

The problem with this is that it still affords the about the same 
amount of math to do in the heat of the moment.

> note that attrib/2 can be written on char sheet.

When a character is wounded, you still have to re-divide your new 
stat level and add it to your skill level.

This doesn't improve upon KBv1.1, it does the same thing as KBv1.1.

 
> Dice rolled for difficulty are:
> Easy - no roll for skilled char
> Average - 1D6
> Difficult - 2D6
> Formidible - 3D6
> Staggering - 4D6
> "Impossible" - 5D6

Check out the numbers you posted.  1D6 for 
Average skills is WAY too easy.

Heck, for a character with only Stat-7, Skill-1, your target number 
is 7 (or 8, depending on which way you round).

That means that a character with an average stat and the lowest skill 
possible will ALWAYS succeed at Average tasks (unless he rolls SF, if 
you use that).

Certainly, this is flawed and definitely not better than KBv1.1 for 
both reasons.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:53:27 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: attributes vs skill level

>    I too like the new emphasis on attributes, and my players seem to
>    like it too.

One thing to point out.  The KBv1.1 task system does not reduce the 
weight of the attribute to a small component of the target number.

On the contrary, the KBv1.1 system only boosts the skill level to 
weigh about as much as the attribute.

It seems that there is a debate forming over attribute vs skill 
importance to the target number.

In KBv1.1, they are both important.  In T4, skill has a relativly low 
importance to the target number (and, thus, the success chance of the 
throw), and the attribute is all important.

Check out what I mean--

Here's Perry:  Str-7;  Brawling-3

Under T4, the target number is 10.  Under KBv1.1, the target number 
is also 10.

But the difference is, under T4, 70% of the target number came from 
Perry's attribute, and only 30% of his target number, the primary 
statistic that determines his chance of success, comes from his skill 
and experience.

Under KBv1.1, the field is leveled somewhat.  40% of the target 
number comes from Perry's Str, while the other 60% of benefit is 
directly related to Perry's skill.

40% for the attribut contribution is no miniscule amount, and 
gaining expertise in a skill all of a sudden means something.

We who advocate more skill weight in the target number do not want to 
down play the role that natural ability plays.  We only want to see a 
person's skill and experience take its rightful place in determining 
that person's chance to succeed at tasks.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:01:27 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

 The specific mechanics weren't the primary attraction, it was the
> feel.

What I was trying to say is that the D6's are a big part of the feel 
of Traveller.

And...I still wouldn't have it any other way.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:25:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

     Okay, this will also be emotional rather than logical but here are a few
reasons why I like D6-only Traveller:

1) It's (almost) always been that way, dammit!

2) D6s are pretty-much the only type of dice ever used outside of rp 
   2a) so they're familiar to everyone.
   2b) so it's very easy to buy/find more

3) They've got spots instead of numbers, which, admit it, is pretty neat

4) They're much easier to stack than D4s

5) If players get bored, they can play "Yahtzee!" (under T4) or Craps (CT/MT)

6) Since we only use one kind, we can refer to our D6 as D and act like we
don't know what other people are talking about when they act like there's more
than one shape of die (proving that we're better, of course)

7) (Related to #2, only applies to Jr-High kids): If your classmates see you
with a bunch of D10s and D20s, they'll think you're a geeky/scary D&D person,
if they see you with 2D6 you can fool 'em into thinking you shoot craps

8) I'd like to come up with ten reasons, but I'm out of ideas.  In reality,
there's absolutely no reason why Traveller can't use any kind of dice in
whatever way it wants to, except that "tradition" is a powerful force and games
DO tend to be associated with their rules, and a big part of that is the 
type-number of dice they use.  It's definitely a point of pride and 
identification among long-time (and non-heretical) Traveller players that "we 
don't need those damn funny-shaped dice!" even if, to obtain more user-friendly
probability curves and task rules, we possibly do.  Just consider it an Article
of Faith in the Traveller's Creed ("We believe in one die, with six sides and 
spots") and leave it at that.

Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:43:30 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Diff Progression

>DIFFICULTY TABLE
>Easy/Simple       Auto (1D)
>Average/Routine   2D
>Difficult         3D
>Formidable        4D
>Staggering        6D
>Near Impossible   8D
>


>Has anybody else tried a similar system, and if so, what are the drawbacks?  I
>can see two possible ones up-front: 1) Average tasks will be a cakewalk for
>just about everybody, not just highly-skilled people; 2) Lots of dice and lots
>of big DM numbers might scare people.

It gives a decent feel for success/failure. Crit fail is mighty common at
high levels.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:13:24 +1100 (EST)
From: Michael Barry <mbarry@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Bustard Two to all Bustard callsigns

Bustard Two 
<delurking>
Transmit IFF transponder ping
<relurking>

Michael Barry
mbarry@pcug.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:13:42 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Bell Curves and Realism

Someone just posted a querey as to why bell curves...

Reasons for Bell Curved distributions:
	1.	Most real world probabilities are best explained by it
	2.	Modifiers naturally shift the bell curves.
	3.	the norming tendancy keeps extreme results in very low
		probabilities.
	4.	they provide endless hours of fun trying to figure out where
		to put break points for difficulties.

Reasons why not to use them:
	1	they make figuring % chances somewhat more difficult
	2	they require 3 or more dice to be rolled.
	3	They make the weight of modifiers dependant upon origional
		target numbers.

CT and MT DO NOT use bell-cured distributions. They use a traingular
distribution; with mose of the same benefits and limitations.
2d6 histogram
Roll	Probaility
2	*
3	**
4	***
5	****
6	*****
7	******
8	*****
9	****
10	***
11	**
12	*

with 3 d6, the norming tendancy holds nearly 50% of rolls to a narrow
range. (less than 1/3 distance from center), and with higher numbers of
dice, this tends to remain somewhat true (haven't got the tables handy on
my HD anymore). Looking In the old Bk 0: Introduction to Traveller: 3d6
rolls of 9-12 comprise (74-26=)48% of rolls; 7-15 comprises (91-9)=82%, and
4-17 gives 99% of all rolls.

This models (easily and accurately) expected performance parameters for
repetetive tasks by skilled individuals. 2d6 doesn't, but comes closer than
any straight-line (ie: 1d__) system can. Even D% and D66 are simply
straight line distributions.

The real world **tends** to express as skewed bell curves.

1st thing I was taught in Statistics: When in doubt, look for a bell curve;
it usually appears in any large sample.




William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #987
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 25 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 988



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: THUDDD voting...
Re: THUDDD voting and QSDS
Diff Progression
Re: Mini Survey
THUDDD:  who gets the biscuit?
MT Task System
Lasers (Re: Plastic Batteries)
Re: Your question on TML Re: PBG and their numbers
MPG-Net PRESS RELEASE: New Drakkar Scenerio released.
Generalizations
Re: MT Task System
Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)
Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?
Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
Thanks for the answer - Question continues 
Maximum numbers?  (was Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:37:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD voting...

rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott) wrote:

>Idiot/Savant wrote:

>[snip]
>>
> >In retrospect, my comments may have been a little harsh sometimes. OTOH,
>>looking at the averages, it seems I was one of the more merciful voters.
>>
>        You were indeed.  There were a lot of 2's, 1's, and 0's handed out.
>I think that a lot of the reason for the harshness was the fact that Far
>Traders are basically boring ships to design and evaluate; since the
>purpose is to make money, the bottom line becomes the main concern,
>funkiness suffers, people get bored, and when they see yet another 200td Sl
>Slab econobox, they marked harshly.
 
>       I think that with the Merc Cruiser THUDDD, where the ships are
>bigger, the emphasis on profitability absent, and the mission 
>requirement a little bit more exciting than "jump 2 make money", the 
>ratings might be higher...

I like Far Traders and merchant campaigns.  Trade and exploration games
are a whole lot more fun and interesting for me than "Travel to distant
star systems, meet new and interesting aliens and kill them." mercenary
games.  One ship-o-war-n-death has always seemed much like another to me. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:43:46 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: THUDDD voting and QSDS

Chris Cox wrote:

>What's the point to having an overall rating if you are just going to
>total all the ratings up and average them out?  I thought that the
>overall rating would determine an overall winner.

Well, it mystified me too.

Here's another plan - what about the winner being decided on *just*
commercial feasibility - that way I could go from 15th place to FIRST!

Yes!  I knew I could win.  (Am I allowed a consolation biscuit?)



Seriously, though, reading through the THUDDD results last night I was a
little bit surprised.  I mean, I could understand my ship design being
'broken' (though I still can't understand where the mistake is), as it was
the first ship I ever actually finished.  (I'm more a planet person
myself.)

However, there seemed to be a lot of other 'broken' ships too judging from
the comments that voters made.  I haven't yet tried to "design" some of the
other entries to see what I can learn from them.

I can't believe that all those THUDDD entries were trying to cheat or
anything, it seems to me that there must be something wrong with the design
system if it's so difficult to come up with kosher designs even using QSDS
- - supposed to be quick and easy.  It would certainly seem that some of the
grey areas could benefit from being 'tidied up' (crewing requirements and
hanger space for air/rafts spring to mind immediately).

I wonder if v.2 will address this?  If not, may I suggest Wildstar consider
it?  (And may I take this opportunity to thank Guy for the huge amount of
fun I've had trying to build a Far Trader - I may even have another bash!)

tc
timothy.collinson@solent.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:57:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Diff Progression

In response to an idea of mine, "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> 
wrote:

>>DIFFICULTY TABLE
>>Easy/Simple       Auto (1D)
>>Average/Routine   2D
>>Difficult         3D
>>Formidable        4D
>>Staggering        6D
>>Near Impossible   8D
>>
>>
>>Has anybody else tried a similar system, and if so, what are the drawbacks?  I
>>can see two possible ones up-front: 1) Average tasks will be a cakewalk for
>>just about everybody, not just highly-skilled people; 2) Lots of dice and lots
>>of big DM numbers might scare people.
>
>It gives a decent feel for success/failure. Crit fail is mighty common at
>high levels.
>

Well, I already admitted that under such a system we'd have to re-define the
Crit. rules, so that doesn't bother me.  I figure we get the basic success/fail
numbers taken care of first, then worry about the extra rules.  My guess,
though, is that under this progression, we'd have to go back to a "Fail by N+" 
system for CritFails (like MT and TNE?), rather than the current 
"dice-counting" systems.


Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:56:56 +0800
From: crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew)
Subject: Re: Mini Survey

Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk> wrote:

>
>	Anyway, why can't our characters be able to do impossible tasks
>more often
>than the average guy? Okay, I know they have elevated skill and attribute
>levels, but they have one extra thing, and it's that they are the ones that
>the game universe revolves around. Couldn't these low impossible task
>levels be down to the extra luck that a character enjoys?
>

<snip Luke Skywalker's and Han Solo's super-human feats>


Many RPG's take the view that characters are the 'pick of the bunch' and
there is something very special about them.  In AD+D the characters
(usually) walk tall, crush ordinary orcs beneath their boots and save the
world every other day.  In Star Wars characters can shoot 50 stormtroopers
before taking a scratch.

Traveller IMHO takes a different view.  The characters are just ordinary
joes (or bobs or janes or ... :) who get up to some pretty extraordinary
things (well it isn't very exciting to role-play your average imperial
bureaucrat doing his daily routine!).  The characters are still
fundamentally ordinary people - they may if they're lucky change the
balance of power in a subsector but they're not going to place Norris on
the throne of the Imperium no matter how hard they try.  This is why NPC's
are just as good as PC's, combat is deadly and Imperial Marines don't fire
wildly and miss.  In MY Traveller the characters aren't super-heroes, just
ordinary people in extra-ordinary situations.

YMMV of course.

David Crew
crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:20:05 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: THUDDD:  who gets the biscuit?

Been away at Jax as most of you know by now.  The minuite I leave all
hell breaks loose(THUDDD Winers, ISBA starts, PBEM gets very
interesting, a glut of e-mails over the 4 day weekend, thanks guys! :)

Going through all the mail, i musta missed where it was mentioned who
won THUDDD.  I got a golden biscuit for the lucky winner.

As I am very buisy, and keeper of the golden biscuits, i could not
participate, I saw a lot of good designs out there, and losta good
RPing.  I'd like to see more when we make the "Basketball O' Doom". 
Again, I cannot enter, but the HFB Mark 0 will be avail at X-TEK
shipyards when i revamp the site.
 
- -- 
The Commander formerly known as "X"
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:01:27 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: MT Task System

Well, i always continued to used the olde MT Task System, and i 
wouldn't think anything of it if IT got chosen (with slight reworking, 
maybe) as the "NEW" T4 Task system!
It was easy to use, remember and understand, it was realistic enough 
to give a good feel for sucess and failure.
It had just enough detail to be universally applicable and was easy 
enough to use it on the fly, without having to do too much number 
crunching.

Any Objections?
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:09:57 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Lasers (Re: Plastic Batteries)

>50 watts is not a usable weapon. 50 *kilowatts* is pretty wimpy for a laser.

	Is a 50 kW continuous laser wimpy in Traveller?

	I do not know very much about laser damage mechanisms, since I
	have done only a few impact engineering tests with lasers
	(using a single laser pulse to simulate projectile impact on
	hard armor), and seen only continuous laser's effect on living
	tissue. I am more familiar 	with high-velocity projectiles and
	their effect on armor and living tissue.

	With lasers there used to be a safety rule-of-thumb, which was
	called "Rule of ones". If I remember it correctly, it went:

	"1 kW continuous CO2 laser,
	 focused to 1 cm2 spot,
	 can damage human flesh up to 1 cm depth,
	 in 1 second."

	And, of course, kilowatt-range laser may cause eye damage or
	the "retinal detonation" very easily.

	Currently 5 W continuous laser are being used for laser surgery,
	and 5 W laser focused on 0.2 mm spot will cut ~1.4 mm deep wounds
	in single pass.

	A 50 kW pulse laser would be a highly lethal weapon (read
	"maximum overkill") if the 50 kW output power was release in a
	single 50 kJ/0.1 ns pulse. (That is, the laser fires one 50 kJ
	pulse every second, and energy is 	delivered in ~0.1 ns with
	~50 TW instant power.)

	The estimated armor penetration of a 50 kJ/50 TW laser beam
	depends on the penetration algorithm used, and it is quite
	difficult to estimate the extent of scabbing and spalling
	without conducting real-world experiments. However, at high
	instant power levels lasers may have similar effects as HEP
	anti-armor rounds.


        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:09:09 -0800
From: "Phillip McGregor" <aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au>
Subject: Re: Your question on TML Re: PBG and their numbers

> From: Del Jones <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
> To: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au
> Subject: Your question on TML Re: PBG and their numbers
> Date: Saturday, February 22, 1997 5:35 PM
> 
> Not seen FS yet, but PBG generally stands for Population
> Modifier, Belts, Gas Giants.
> as in previous sector data formats.
> 
> Population = PopMod x10^(UPP PopDigit).....(number between
> 0 and 9)
> Belts = number of planetoid belts (asteroid belts) in
> system. (generally 0-3) 
> Gas Giants= Number of gas giants in system (generally 0-5)
> 
> 
> Sorry if I've mistaken your question, and this is old hat
> to you, Just trying to help.

No, exactly what I wanted to know -- and its a bit frustrating to see that
IG *still* haven't got the message. You can't assume that people have every
previous publication there is. New players are going to take one look at
PBG and wonder what the hell it is!

I have a reasonable collection of Traveller stuff - right back to the
little black books - but it isn't in anything that *I* have seen before. So
it must be pretty obscure!

Phil
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Have Game Designer, Will Travel
Co-Designer, Space Opera; Designer, Rigger Black Book

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:31:11 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: MPG-Net PRESS RELEASE: New Drakkar Scenerio released.

MPG-Net is happy to provide these mailing lists to the Internet as a public
service.  In exchange they would like to occasionally post a press release
or two.  Since they have to go through me, I can make sure they are not too
intrusive.  Its been a while, and our paying customers pay the phone bills
so we can keep these lists.  Also, please drop by our web site at
http://www.mpgn.com!!

Rob

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:31:22 -0500
To: michele@MPGN.COM
From: Michele Dipert <michele@mpgn.com>
Subject: PRESS RELEASE for Aleria in Drakkar.

KEY WEST, FL, -Multi-Player Games Network (MPG-Net), a leader in online
multi-player games, announced today the release of Aleria, a new game
scenario for the popular Kingdom of Drakkar.

"We've done some new things in Aleria, both technically and
philosophically, that we're quite excited about" said Michele Dipert,
Director of Marketing at MPG-Net. Aleria boasts a more intricate storyline,
with quests and game play that interrelates on many levels. Players will
spend many hours exploring the immense new land, searching the Duchy of
Carenna, Tower of Koss, Borav's Hold and the sylvan forests of Hemlock for
adventure and fortune. 

Aleria is the first Drakkar scenario created specifically to work with the
new Drakkar interface, which was released into beta in November of 1996. New
features include a graphical interface driven by customizable macro buttons, 
a more intuitive screen layout, new graphics in new areas like Aleria, a
scrollable text window and other features designed to enhance the play of
Drakkar.

For beginning players, the Kingdom of Drakkar is a world full of creatures
to kill and wealth to gain, often with the help of other players. As
characters increases in skill and experience, they venture further afar into
the uncharted and continually changing realms of Drakkar, alone or joining
other hardy adventurers to tackle the legendary creatures of Drakkar and
their untold riches. 

Win 95 users can download the MPG-Net current roster of games, including
Aleria directly from the Internet web site at http://www.mpgn.com. Also on
the web site are interface tours, game profiles, game manuals and other user
resources. Online products include the fantasy role-playing Kingdom of
Drakkar--"You'll find Drakkar seriously addictive," (Michael Goodwin,
Reviewer, PC World). Subscribers can also play space strategy game Imperium,
classic war game Operation Market-Garden, railroad-tycoon game Empire
Builder, the cyberpunkish Minion Hunter, Backgammon and more. Other online
features include email, chat rooms, and forums. Prices are $4.95 for the
first month and $9.95 a month thereafter. To order the software via CD,
please call MPG-Net's customer service at 305-296-6665.

MPG-Net publishes and markets next-generation interactive entertainment,
gaming systems, and software for the Internet and emerging media. MPG-Net
products can be accessed online at http://www.mpgn.com. 
Michele Dipert
Director of Marketing Services
MPG-Net, Multi-Player Games Network

Email: michele@mpgn.com
http://www.mpgn.com

I am experienced on life's roads...but I have yet to master the big roadmap!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:25:25 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Generalizations

>I hope like hell I can pull this off.  It seems to be what we all
>want.  I'll let you in on KBv2.0 after I run some numbers/do some
>analysis.

I would like to point out that this kind of generalization above is not
accurate. It is not what I want.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:58:42 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: MT Task System

>Well, i always continued to used the olde MT Task System, and i
>wouldn't think anything of it if IT got chosen (with slight reworking,
>maybe) as the "NEW" T4 Task system!
>It was easy to use, remember and understand, it was realistic enough
>to give a good feel for sucess and failure.
>It had just enough detail to be universally applicable and was easy
>enough to use it on the fly, without having to do too much number
>crunching.
>
>Any Objections?
>Just my 2 EuroCents,

First; all characteristics was optimised at 5, 10, 15 and the poor chaps
with 14 in INT was just as smart as those with 10. Secondly; secret tasks
had totally different propabilities of success and also had another set of
results. Third; exceptional results were more common than normal, a clear
break of my Verbal compatability rule: "All named gametokens should
correspond to real world tokens of the same name". Fourth; 2 were always a
failure and 12 was always a success which are really bad. Fifth; time
duration for tasks were rolled up as the task was attempted (I know there
were absolute timed tasks) which leads to relativistic paradoxes like; I
try to open the hatch before with hit the mountain. OK roll your task, you
suceeded, roll time, you failed, what does this actually mean? MT had a lot
of flaws but was definately the best task system devised for Traveller
(except for my own of course ;) as it didn't have stupid AD&D type of dice
and didn't use even more stupid D3s!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:51:03 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)

> From: Dr. Vince <drvince@ix.netcom.com>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Re: T4 task system
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 8:01 PM

> But the salient question is what is more important, skill or stat? In
this
> case, Marc, I think your example is flawed, and might be more instructive
as
> follows:
[good example snipped]

I think we may have a dilemma here: the mental-physical dichotomy has
reared its ugly head.  I will posit that physical stats are MORE IMPORTANT
than skill for most any type of athletic activity, but that for
"professional" type skills -- FoEx, an MD -- the skill MAY be more
important.

The problem lies in the examples chosen to promote a given task system. 
Marc, and I, were probably thinking in terms of physical activities, whilst
Dr. Vince has been brooding over the state of the medical profession.

At last!  A reason why those #@$% EDU bonuses are so high!!!  Ah-ha.  There
was a method to the madness...  That +4 for college was there to put MDs
and educated folk up into the same probability range in which Emmitt Smith
might live, in different realms, of course.  It should be easier to develop
EDU than to develop thighs as large as my torso, I think.

> The task systems then are radically different in what the emphasis is on.
> Under the T4 system, it is near impossible to have a highly trained and
> skilled character with a low stat beat a duffer with a good stat. It also
> means that *some* training is better than *nothing*. In my own personal
GM

I still have to agree here.  The one part of Traveller I've never liked is
the EDU and SOC stats: I don't think that they measure on the same scale as
the others...  Case in point is the psionic assault rules -- why in
Yaskodray's name would a psionic assault lower SOC, or EDU?  It would
definitely take some canon destruction and hand waving to change those
stats to something more comparable to STR, DEX, END, INT, and PSI, but...

> philosophy, I'd rather reward the skill than the stat. Under the KB
system,
> skill is primary, and training (enough of it) can overcome a low stat.

I will argue, again, that someone will not have training without at least
an average or higher stat in an area...  Would an MD really ever be
produced with an EDU of lower than 7?  Or Yaskodray forbid, an INT lower
than 7?  Yikes!  Where's my pan-galactic, Imperial-sanctioned malpractice
attorney?!

> Personally, I like that. However, with such emphasis being placed on the
> skill, perhaps capping the maximum skill level is called for. For
instance,
> if a skill level cap of 10 was imposed (ie 10 is the maximum score in any
> skill) you could make a statement about what level is the normal
> professional level (say 4-5). So a docor is liscensed at 4, say. A normal

Why?  I've known -- been subjected to -- some pretty crummy MDs in my time.
 I'm deaf in one ear because some "nimble" fingers snipped when he should
have snapped during surgery!  Not everyone graduates even near the top of
the class...  Obviously.  I'm living proof!  And I'm sure that my native
INT and EDU are much higher than those poor, studying geeks in my class: I
must've just failed my "matriculation" roll, or something.

My advice to budding characters:  If you don't have the natural ability for
something that you really wish you could do, then do something you have
talent for!  (Funny, that sounds like the same advice I give high school
students in Real Life(tm)...  In gen-X parlance, that is "Don't do
something you suck at.")

> It just doesn't make sense that a bright person (Int C) with Medical 1
> should be a better diagnostician than an average (Int 7) liscensed doctor
> (Medical 3). Under T4's standard system, that is exactly what happens.
With
> a good stat you can take a couple of levels of JoT and have better target
> numbers than low stats and lots of training. To me that is a big problem.

This is a good example, BUT as a referee it is YOUR job to say "Yeah, you
have a med-1, but you have absolutely NO CLUE about how to use the
phlembobulator.  Sorry.  I guess old yeller is a goner."  ;-)  I think that
Marc's task system is being stretched tooooooo @#$& far to both tails of
the curve -- without careful calculation, both tails of the curves CANNOT
be satisfied!!!  There are going to be outliers regardless.  Especially
with d6!

We love the new T4 task rules because they're SIMPLE and EASY.  Let's not
get carried away with ourselves and probability.  (I have to do enough Real
World(tm) statistics in class.  "What do you mean I need proof for my
theory that public schools couldn't educate Einstein?  They couldn't! 
That's fact!  It's my THEORY.  Oh, yes, Dr. Murphy, I do want my Ph.D.
someday.  Yes, I want to be published.  Yes, I'll find some shred of proof.
 Uh, sir."  ;-P )

> A possible further modification of the KB task system would be to double
the
> skill only to 5, then add any additional skill singly. For example, a
stat 7
> doctor with skill 10 under KBv1.1 has a target number of 24. If instead
you
> doubled only to skill 5 (ie 1/2 stat (4) plus double skill to 5 (10) plus
5
> extra levels in Medical) the target number is 19. This might curb the
> godliness of extremely highly skilled characters. Alternatively you could
> just add more dice to the Impossible and Very Difficult task slots, but I
> don't have the statistics to work out how often a 19 fails against 5D
versus
> how often a 24 will, so I am not so sure about how how many more dice to
add.

Hey, I said "Let's not get carried away..."  Just tell the poor untrained
slob, MY task definition says:  MEDICAL-3 or higher required.  Period. 
Your first aid will NOT help you repair the damage you did to Sparky's
brain case with a blow torch whilst trying to extricate him from the toilet
bowl.  I know it's not his fault that his head is stuck, but you're going
to have to PAY a vet to do your dirty work and face the potential music for
animal abuse when the authorities find out.  (See, I can turn this around
and still make it come out with a good way to fleece the PCs...  Heh.)

Proposal, Marc:  A REQUISITES section in the neo-Task definition, without
which the difficulty goes up one level for each missing PIECE, such as the
potential for tools exists in your examples.  Say:

To commit plastic surgery on an unsedated canine (3 hours).
(EDU + MED [3+]) + Tools (required) < Impossible (ALLd).

__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:12:33 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?

>Hey, I agree with you!  That's why I argue in favor of increases in skills
>being based on aptitude for that skill.  I'd *like* to have skills increase
>by a variable amount based on naturally how good a character would be in
>that area.  THAT'S how I'd like to tie Attributes to Skills.  I don't seem
>to have many takers though. <g>

You're absolutely right of course. Skills level should describe how good
the character is at the task and the controlling characteristic should
govern
a The unskilled penalty
b How fast/easily one improves in the skill.

A simple system (not the one I use):
- ------------------------------------
Some ways of gaining experience points should be devised.
To get a new level of skill costs:
Lvl 0: 2 ep
Lvl 1: 1
Lvl 2: 2
Lvl 3: 3
Lvl 4: 4
Lvl 5: 5
Lvl 6: 6 et c

For each level the new skill is above characteristic/2 double the required
ep cost.
This makes it hard to gain high skills and nearly impossible to get if you
don not have the natural talent.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:18:31 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

>        And can somebody explain to me why a "bell-shaped probability curve" is
>the One True Way? Seriously, folks, you can't even justify any of the
>probabilities for any of the tasks based on reality, other than handwaving
>and "it feels right." I'm sitting here with a handgun. Can you tell me what
>my true chances of hitting my front door are? Or even define what "true
>chance" means? It's a game. Some people like bell-shaped curves for
>aesthetic reasons, some can live with or without them. As long as things
>that to me fall into a hierarchy of difficulty in real life fall in the
>same order in the game, and the general feel seems right, more power to you.

Well I cannot tell you your propability of hitting that door but as your
angle deviation in shooting is bell shaped (according to my Rheinmetall gun
design book for real guns) the propabilitys range dependance is bell shaped
or rather integrated bell shape. Those interested in the actual formula can
ask me and I'll jot it down.
Everybody who measure things in the real world knows that most measurable
stuff has bell shaped distributions (or are forced to have one to be
calculable;).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:59:28 -0000
From: "Dominic Reynolds" <nz19@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Thanks for the answer - Question continues 

So a character wearing flexible body armour is worse off
than one wearing no armour.

However has there  been discussion that to character wearing
no armour has all dice rolled and the highest three used for 
the damage.

Enemy with Big Game Rifle 6 dice (six sided)

Character A) Diplo armour rating 3
  Will be worse off if the 3dice >15

  If the damage rolled is in order 1,3,6,5,3,6 - then
  the damage would be 1+3+6+(3)=13

Character B) No armour

  If the damage rolled is in order 1,3,6,5,3,6 - then
  the damage would be 6+5+6+(0)=17

Should they know that they are in the middle of a firefight or the
target of Mr Trophy hunter, they could attempt a dex task to dive
for additional cover 

Dex Task - Bonus if not encumbered, tactics, athletics or recon
		Tactics - they know when to dive and roll
		Recon - they know where to roll to and be out of the 
			 line of fire
		Athletics - they can roll, and roll and roll.

	  - Penalty if encumbered, more than one hand full etc

If the dex task has been made the GM can roll dice randomly to
see how lucky the characters have been.
This roll would be based on how stressed, tired, bloodthirsty etc the
GM is at that moment.
They might get an extra point of armour of two, or a penalty on their
attackers attack chance.  Else they might have jumped into the local
carnivorous trapper.

****************************************************************
I understand that a 
- -5 penalty means that the damage dice are changed to d12's 
- -9 penalty means that a d6 and a d12 is rolled <G>
****************************************************************
- --
Dominic Reynolds
nz19@dial.pipex.com 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:15:58 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Maximum numbers?  (was Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 11:38 PM

> >  Just one thing, 6D task: rolls are 1,1,1,6,6,6
> >  
> Yes, if top end is 6D; Good point.

Why stop with 6D?  If skills can, essentially, be open-ended, why not leave
it open to devious GMs to require a 9D task roll?

Heh.  I like this.  "So, you want to jump from the air raft, do a double
air-borne somersault, land on your feet, and catch your cutlass, which the
drinkbot launched toward you, with what you assumed would be
machine-perfect accuracy?  Hmmm...  Sounds like a 10D task to me.  Oh, you
don't have telekinesis?  Or clairvoyance?  Make that 15D..."  There's
something to be said for combining task rolls, after all.
__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:11:21 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

> From: Harold D. Hale <hdhale@siscom.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
> Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 11:32 PM

>    Why?  Is there something inherantly evil about D10s and D20s that
> I've been blinded to because of some spell cast on me by TSR during a
> visit to GenCon?  Is it that D10s and D20s are only available here in
> Ohio, and the rumors of their availability elsewhere are part of a
> diabolical TSR plot?

Yes.  It is.  And that's why we're putting them out of business.  ;-)

>    I'm sorry, I just don't get it.  I mean really, I can't understand
> why so many people are going to so much trouble, when going to a D10 or
> D20 based system would make life so much damn easier.  Can someone
> please explain it to me?

No.  I, too, used to be a d20 junky, Harold.  I even went so far as to
write my own task rules that were a blend of open-ended Rolemaster, task
difficulty driven Vampire, and d20 AD&D...  I have now reformed, and will
obey Marc as I always should have.  '-)

I do like the new psionics rules.  Very elegant.  And I do like the d6
rules, too.  I just disagree with Ken: I think natural talent is far more
important than skill, most things being equal -- especially physical tasks.
 You?

And ultimately, I don't think the dice used matter: it's all in the
GameMaster...
__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #988
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 25 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 989



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: StarShip Economics
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: Passenger Correction.
Re: Power Plants
Gambling (was Re: Question about "micro-jumps")
Re: attributes vs skill level
THUDDD Post-Mortem
RFC:  GenCon tournament
Re: Half-dice and attributes
Traveller Digest 19: Missing Pages!
Re: Spectacular Results (new)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:10:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

> Just consider it an Article
> of Faith in the Traveller's Creed ("We believe in one die, with six sides
> and spots") and leave it at that.
> Trent Smith

For the truly orthodox, among whom I count myself (-:, that article should
be:

We believe in one die,_ black_, with six sides and _red_ spots.

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.netr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:03:16 -0800
From: Douglas McCorison <douglas@camax.com>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

Harold D. Hale wrote:
>    No, I'm hearing strong *emotional* arguments for D6, but no *logical*
> ones.  Can it be that there aren't any?

Does it matter?  In assessing any proposed project, a good planner
assesses
three criteria:
	Technical:  Can it be done at all?  Is there a logical reason to
(do/not do) something?  This is the point that you're addressing.
	Fiscal:	Can we afford to do it?  is there enough money to do what 
needs to be done to complete it?  Obviously IG & Co have the money to
re-work the task/die system.  No one is arguing this.
	Political: Is there the emotional will to deal with the issue?
Frankly more technical projects crash on this item than either of the
other 
two.  All changes proposed must occur within an existing emotional
framework.
The emotional framework around Traveller includes the D6 solution as a
major part of the framework.  Any proposed solution must address this
emotional issue.  Just because it's an emotional issue doesn't make it 
an invalid or unreal objection.  People are not machines.  This is
especially
true of what is essentially an imaginative pursuit.

Douglas McCorison

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:13:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: StarShip Economics

In mail you write:

> Free traders simply arrive and ask if anyone wants to go wherever they =
> are going next - a haphazard method at best.

You've got that backwards. They arrive and ask where people have cargo
to ship to.

That is, instead of saying "We're going to X, have any cargo for
there?" they ask "do you have anything that needs shipping?" and find
out if the destination is somplace that they figure they can deal with.

They'll decide on whether or not to carry a cargo based on things like
whether or not they think they will be able to pick up another cargo at
the destination. Or they might turn it down because it's a planet they
don't like doing business on (say that the local customs folks are a
*real* pain). Or that it'll take them too far away from their "home
port".

They also have to worry about things like being in range of a port
where they can *get* maintenance when maintenance is due. That's likely
to be their "home port".

A ship that has their next destination in mind isn't a "tramp"
freighter, and likely not a true "free trader". They'll be somebody
making runs on a somewhat fixed route, but not necessarily on a fixed
schedule.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:09:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Doctor Vince <drvince@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

At 01:54 AM 2/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>   No, I'm hearing strong *emotional* arguments for D6, but no *logical*
>ones.  Can it be that there aren't any?

That depends on your definition of *logic*.

For IG, it make great sense that they create a new mechanic system based
roughly on the old one. This serves two goals: 1) product familiarity withe
the core audience (which was my biggest gripe about TNE, aside from the
really confusing combat mechanics...I mean they name two distinct (and very
different) weapon attributes "penetration"...)

The second goal is product differentiation: IG wants T4 to be T4, not
Traveller: the Wandering (as WWGS might put it). While I like the WWGS
mechanics for thier simplicity, that is sometimes their greatest drawback.

As far as personal choice, I like the T4 system, so I use it. If you don't
like it, use whatever you want, but why buy a roleplaying game that leaves
so much for the gamemaster to fill (a definite plus for Traveller), and then
rip out a big chunk of what you bought and use something else? Why not just
avoid T4 and kitbash yyour own SF RPG?

Vince
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Familiarity breeds contempt. People assume I am familiar with everything
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	"The passion of lovers is for death..."
				Bauhaus
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vince Coccia, distinguished legal counsel for His Infernal Majesty, is :
		drvince@ix.netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 08:48:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Passenger Correction.

In mail you write:

> Mark Clark asked:
>
>>   The question I have for you, Steve, is that my calculations show that
>> there is only about a 14% chance of getting the 5 passengers you list in
>> your table as being average for pop 3 worlds.  Could you explain the
>> reason for the difference? 
>
> Mea culpa.  Thanks for the catch.
>
> I was fooled by agents of Tukera's security agency (er, and misread some
> scrawled notes about the passenger table when I did the math).  My quick
> analysis was not fancy; I just grabbed the medians.  So there may be more
> or less demand.  The times when there is more may pay for the times when
> there are less, if you have room to take them, but I didn't look at this
> or how much the figures vary.  The table should have looked more like:

The problem is that while the number of passengers *available* has a
two-tailed distribution, the number that you can *carry* is a single
tailed one (if there are more passengers than you have cabins, you
can't "use" the extras).

So you *can't* use the median. Or rather, you have to calculate a
*modified* median, where values above the number of staterooms are
converted to the max number available.

As an example, here's the mode, mean & median for two dice, when you
have a "ceiling".

ceiling	mode	mean	median	
- -------	-----	------	------
2	2	2	2
3	3	2.9722	3
4	4	3.8888	4
5	5	4.7222  5
6	6	5.4444  6
7	7	6.0277  7
8	8	6.4444  7
9	9	6.7222  7
10	7,10	6.8888  7
11	7	6.9722  7
12	7	7.6111  7

I didn't have the inclination to go thru the hassles of calculating the
variance or standard deviation, but those will be equally distorted.

ps. for those not familiar with the terms, "mode" means "most commonly
seen value". So if you have to bet on the *exact* number, you pick the
mode. "Median" is the value you get if you list the values in order and
then find the midpoint of the list (note that iit is either a value in
the dataset, or the average of two adjacent values in the sorted
dataset). If you have to bet on "this number or higher" you pick the
median. And if you want the average, you pick the mean.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 08:18:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Power Plants

In mail you write:

> One of my main hates in Traveller since High Guard is that not only 
> are lower tech level power plants larger, leaving less free space, 
> but they cost more. Rather than basing cost on mass I price them on 
> power output, i.e. a tech 15 power plant costs the same as a tech 12 
> power plant.

But in the real world, the whole *reason* for going to higher tech for
power plants (in stationary situations) is that they are cheaper to
build, maintain, or operate! And then the new tech gets moved to mobile
uses.

For mobile uses, it gets cheaper *or* smaller. Doing *both* is harder
than doing just one.

Besides, the *materials* for the powerplant *do* cost based on mass!
And in most cases, so does the "processing" (ie machining, shaping,
assembly, etc).

> I found that the high cost of lower tech PP's meant that 
> low tech starships were much less economic and if you look at all the 
> TNE ships they are built at TL15. Since the average steller tech was 
> 12, why are all the working starships built at a TL 3 higher than most 
> of the available starports?

Because the authors were idiots. Or, alternatively, for the same reason
that airliners and cargo ships are built at the *highest* "common" tech
level on earth, not at the *average* tech level. 

15 is the highest "common" tech level. So *because* ships at that tech
level are so much more economical to run, they get *built* at that tech
level. 

Consider how few places in the world can build modern airliners. Only
the places that can't afford to buy them from those places use the old
DC-3s and the like. BTW, if I recall correctly, a DC-3 (built in the
30s) is 3 tech levels lower than a 1970s airliner. There are a lot of
old DC3s operating, even in places that have essentially 18th & 19th
century technology. But the most common carriers to anyplace
"important" use 70's and 80's planes.

> Likewise I think that starships should be cheaper but much more 
> expensive to maintain. At present once a ship is payed off it is 
> impossible not to run it at a significant profit, even a scout / 
> seeker can trabsport cargo profitibly.

Maintenance is expensive because you have to get those "hi-tech" parts.
:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 06:57:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Gambling (was Re: Question about "micro-jumps")

In mail you write:

> In-Reply-To: <970220.044334.7P4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
>
> << > My group jumped at 1 diameter once (they'd made themselves *very* 
>> unpopular down there...). I said they'd have to roll pretty high to 
>> survive. They rolled a 12.
>
> Did they jump at one *diameter* (one planetary radius *above* the
> surface) or one *radius* (from the surface)? >>
>
> The former. Surviving a jump from the surface would require an 
> unmodified roll of 13...

I see. Sort of like the story about the guy trying to cheat at craps in
a casino. As he makes his throw, a third die falls out of his sleeve
and rools down the table with the other two. The croupier doesn't miss
a beat, he picks up the dice, hands two of them back to the guy and
says "14's your point..."

:-)

Oh yeah, *that* reminds me of a game we came up with after the local
game store got in some 8-siders that looked like "real" dice. Ivory
color, rounded edges and corners, and *pips*.

So we sat down with the rules to craps and modified them for a pair of
8-siders instead of 6-siders. It's actually *dead* easy. 2 stays 2, 3
stays 3, 7 becomes 9, 11 becomes 15, and 12 becomes 16.

We were playing at it in the comic shop (on the counter) when a customer
walked in. You should have seen the doubletakes. Most of the chatter
sounded like normal craps. Until the line above came out... And then as
he walks over to go "wait a second!" he sees the dice. God, I wish we'd
had a camera.

This sort of thing might be nice to give the players some fun when the
ref doesn't have a chance to do a lot of pre-planning. Have them
gambling under "different" rules. Besides using different dice for
craps, you can also have fun with playing card games with a tarot deck.
Poker works if you get rid of the "greater arcana". It's just that you
have different suits and *four* face cards (King, Queen, Knight and
Page). And if you have the "Lando Carlrissian" books (I forget the
author) he describes a game that is sort of like craps or baccarat
using a tarot deck. It's called Sabac, and the rules he gives in the
stories are consistent. You can't simulate the electronic cards(*) but
the game works ok without them. And it's fun.

This is more fun than using "gambling" skill, even if it's not as good
as role-playing. And it lets the players have fun while the ref madly
finishes off the details he didn't expect to need until next week. :-)

(*) cards randomly swap values unless they are sitting on the table. So
that King of Staves in your hand may suddenly "swap" with a 3 of Coins
in someone else's hand. The problem is *whose*? And do you want to lay
down that good hand you have and collect *now*, or risk losing it while
you are running up the ante.

Hmmmm. It occurs to me that you could use gambling skill to determine
when and where to swap cards between hands. It'd require the ref to
take all the hands after every bet and make (or not make!) the swap.
I'll have to try to find my copy of the rules and see if I can work out
a reasonable method. If I can, we'd have a great little game where both
skill at playing the game (player) and "gambling skill" (character)
would affect the outcome. Skill levels run 0-6, right?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:42:57 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Re: attributes vs skill level

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: attributes vs skill level
> Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 7:53 PM

> >    I too like the new emphasis on attributes, and my players seem to
> >    like it too.

> It seems that there is a debate forming over attribute vs skill 
> importance to the target number.

Yes, I warned of this several jumps ago.  ;-(  But did Eric listen? 
Noooo...  He had to go and irritate us lurkers.  ;-)

> Check out what I mean--
> 
> Here's Perry:  Str-7;  Brawling-3

Better example all the way around:
	Here's Evan:  STR-A; Brawling-5
	And here's Mikey:  STR-B; Brawling-3

Who wins?  ;-)  [Some bookies are reported to have thought that it was a
close match.  -ed.]

WARNING:  Personal definition
Skill is the difference, the edge, between two or more people, ALL ELSE
BEING EQUAL.  If one person has any advantage in natural ability, that
person will trounce the other soundly almost every time.

Two people physically equal in most respects (like that ever happens),
including sleep, rest, self-esteem, parental love during childhood, etc. go
after one another in the cafeteria: one's a black belt in aikido, one's a
yellow belt in tae-kwon-do.  The student of the Korean style is *history*. 
(Did you make your EDU roll?  ;-)

The same holds for test takers:  two student who are equal on INT and EDU
take the SAT.  One has taken it before (starting in the seventh grade), and
the other has never even seen the test format before.  The test taker with
skill in the SAT kick bloody hell out of the test (having already gotten
comfortable with it, though progressing to his personal maximum) and is
offered membership in MENSA.  The other student tends toward the population
mean test score, but learns from his experience: if s/he's not too bummed
about it, taking it again will raise h/is/er score...  Based on simple
experience.

> We who advocate more skill weight in the target number do not want to 
> down play the role that natural ability plays.  We only want to see a 
> person's skill and experience take its rightful place in determining 
> that person's chance to succeed at tasks.

I understand, but I take exception with the fact that a PC with an EDU or
INT of 3 could EVER get any skill in MEDICAL, or anything else but bantha
hunting, or tri-D watching.


> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Re: T4 task system
> Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 9:52 PM

> > > Either way, though, I think most of the folks discussing tasks on the
list
> > > would like to see the the balance in target numbers shift from mostly
> > > Characteristics to more Skills..and less
> > > Characteristics. 
> 
> > Yes-sir-re-bob.
> 
> My "most of the folks" is causing the other side to de-lurk, so prepare
to
> hear "Attributes are good!  Attributes are your friend!" now. ;->

Are you saying they're not?


> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Why do GMs want characters to fail?
> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 1997 12:16 AM
> 
> Rob, most GM's don't want the players to fail..too often.  Why do you
ask?
> ;->

He didn't.  I did.  (I just mailed it from the wrong address, and he was
nice enough to forward it!  Thanx, Rob!  You're a "naturally" nice guy.)

> > Natural talent is the basis for ANY training whatsoever.  "If thou has

> Hey, I agree with you!  That's why I argue in favor of increases in
skills
> being based on aptitude for that skill.  I'd *like* to have skills
increase
> by a variable amount based on naturally how good a character would be in
> that area.  THAT'S how I'd like to tie Attributes to Skills.  I don't
seem
> to have many takers though. <g>

Nope.  You don't go far enough...  Heh.  (I'm taking lessons from Harold. 
;->  Why is everybody so down on poor old Harold?  He's a heck of player! 
And an extremist to boot!  The old plastic explosive to the faceplate was a
heck of an idea!!!  BTW, Marc, what possessed you to make plastique
available at only TL-11 and above? P. 67)  Anyway...

Your system has merit, a la Millennium's End, Rolemaster, et al, but I
think that in the spirit of simplicity that *IS* Traveller (except
spelling...) that it is unnecessarily complicated.  Your model works, but
provides little extra in the way of "prediction": meaning you added that
variable and your adjusted-R-Squared went down...  Go back to the original
and KISS it.  (BTW, I love the RM source books, but the new rules are worse
than the old ones -- prime examples of how NOT to design a game system. 
What were they thinking up at ICE anyway?)


> From: William F. Hostman <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Bell Curves and Realism
> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 1997 3:13 AM
> 
> Someone just posted a querey as to why bell curves...

> The real world **tends** to express as skewed bell curves.
> 
> 1st thing I was taught in Statistics: When in doubt, look for a bell
curve;
> it usually appears in any large sample.

You said it.  ESPECIALLY anything involving humans...  and they're not all
that skewed, either.  Ask Charles Murray.  Heh.


<off-topic>
> William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
> Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

This has been bugging me for a while, and I didn't feel like paying a
shrink to help me work it out.  You DON'T need that @%$&ing mailto in
there...  It's automatically a HOTLINK in MS Internet Mail.  Accept the
inevitable.  Join us or die.  Stop using that mailer with a funky name. 
Anything "lite" always tastes bad.  ;-)
</off-topic>


__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:54:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: THUDDD Post-Mortem

As part of the THUDDD post-mortem, I'm going to go over my design 
decisions for the Ketaru Aerospace "Star" far liner, and try to 
address voter comments.  I'd like to thank the voters for seeing
fit to give fifth place to the most expensive design in the entire
competition!  :)  I'd also like to offer my congratulations to the
winners, whose designs were all interesting and deserving. 

I chose first to concentrate on economic viability, even at the
cost of increased price and size.  I decided this was a good thing;
I wanted a more unique design than a "standard far trader", even if
a few points were lost because of it.  QSDS 1.5 was chosen because of
the discount, and now I like the system *much* more than SSDS.  [I'd
like to see two things added; smaller standard hangars for vehicles
(three tons would be enough for a grav flyer) and an entry in the
USP for communications devices.]  In fact, I think that I'd rather
see a QSDS-style large ship design system than one based on SSDS.

Design was done the same way I always do; pencil, paper, and hand
calculator.  I only turned to the computer to do the write-up.

I am happy with the final result.  A crew of eight, with four or
so bridge types, an engineer, two stewards and a doctor, seemed
to leave space for a fairly typical set of PCs and NPCs.  The
ship is profitable enough that they can goof off a bit, even if
my stateroom numbers turn out to be too high.  :)


DESIGN WORKSHEET:

 Component            Volume     Power     Cost      Area    Crew   Notes
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disk S 300 tons      [281.9]      81.7     13.7   [1120.0]    --
Jump 2                  9          --      37.8      42      0.3 Eng
10% jump fuel          30          --       --       --       --
10% jfuel fold dis.    30 (7.5)    --       0.21     --       --      {1}
1G Thrusters            6         84       21        17      0.2 Eng
TL12 Std Civ Ctrls      1.7        1.3      9.2       0.3     --
TL12 Bas Sensors        0.3       11.1      6.8      12.4    0.4 Elec
TL12 Bas Commo          0.0        1.3      0.2      11.0    0.4 Elec
TL12 5/hr Fuel Purif   12          2.5      0.1      --       --
100 MW fusion           3.6     [100]      10        --      0.1 Eng
4x 20 MW fusion         2.8      [80]       8        --      0.0 Eng  {2}
fusion fuel (1 yr)      1.9        --       --       --       --
Std 2MW Fusion+         0.03      [2]       0.003    --       --      {3}
fusion+ fuel (300h)     0.0135     --       --       --       --
5x Workstations         2.5        --       --       --       --
Large SR                4          --       0.1      --       --
7x Small SR            14          --       0.28     --       --
12x Small SR (mids)    24          --       0.48     --       --
12x Large SR (high)    48          --       1.2      --       --
HiPsg cargo space      12          --       --       --       --
Cargo                  80 (102.5)  --       --       --       --
                     ----------------------------------------------------
TOTAL                   0.0565    [0.1]   109.073 [1037.3]    --

75% of MCr 109.073 = MCr 81.80475. (QSDS discount)
Square brackets indicate negative numbers (power or space or area left).

 NOTES:
 -----
{1} This is the dismantling version of the dismountable fuel tank, which
    can be stored at 25% of its' volume.  Numbers in parentheses show the
    displacement for fuel and cargo when folded and stored.
{2} Strictly, should probably have used 50-20-10 to get an 80 MW fusion
    system, which would have given 0.1 Eng.  Doesn't affect crewing.
{3} This is a 2 MW standard Cleon Industries Fusion+ cold fusion unit from
    CSC, page 62, converted from cubic meters to displacement tons.  The
    ship can function without it; in that case the fuel purifier should be
    run when the thrusters are off (probably when the ship is landed).  It
    only runs when the fuel purifier is, so the fuel lasts a whole year. 
    A real shipboard "hot" fusion plant would be more efficient in fuel,
    but this is smaller and adds an interesting "quirkiness" to the ship.
    It adds effectively nothing to cost and takes almost no space.

On to voter comments:

> Too expensive by far, and I can't see how it got that way - did this
> one get its ISDP component discount?

Yes.  The only other 300-ton ship in the competition, the New Victoria
"T-300", cost just under MCr 70 and was designed with QSDS 1.4 not 1.5,
so it came out a lot cheaper.  From a down payment point-of-view, it's
only four megacredits or so more than average.  :)  The point of this
ship was that while it cost a bit more money, it would also make more
money and pay for itself faster than most 200-ton ships, even with 
less than complete passenger occupancy.

> Not only does it suffer from the Passanger Bug, it also seems that
> Ketaru Aerospace needs to check up on the proper use of dismantalable
> tanks. This ship seems fundamentally broken.
[...]
> The collapsable fuel tank won't fly!  T4 doesn't address this well, but
> a collapseable full tank won't drain fast enough for Jump drive 
> operations.

Nope.  This is confusing collapsible bladders (storable at 5%) and folding
dismountable tankage (storable at 25%).  From QSDS 1.5:

  "Collapsible Tanks: Insulated fuel bladders may be carried in the cargo
   hold to provide additional fuel. This fuel may not be used directly,
   but must be pumped into the ship's normal fuel tanks before use.
   Collapsible tanks cost Cr 1400 per ton of fuel carried. When empty,
   they can be stored at 5% of their full volume."

  "Dismountable Tanks: Dismountable fuel tanks may be carried in the ship's
   cargo hold to provide additional fuel. Fuel from these rigid tanks may be
   used directly by the ship's drives."
   [...]
  "A version is also available that can be disassembled to store in 25% of
   its full volume, at a cost of Cr 7000 per ton."

My text may have confused the issue by referring to the tankage as being
"collapsible dismountable" tanks.  I should have said "disassemblable"
to be absolutely clear, but I thought mentioning that it took up 25% of
the space when disassembled would be enough to clarify this.  

> Command crew is extaneous.

Not true.  Command crew was not extraneous, but *required*.  QSDS 1.5:

  "Command Crew: Total the above crew, and divide by six (round fractions 
   to the nearest whole number). This is the number of command crew. They
   will require workstations."

I had four in the "above crew" (2x Maneuver, Electronics, Engineering).
4/6 = 0.667.  The nearest whole number to 0.667 is 1.  It does not read
"drop all fractions" or something equivalent; I don't know if this is a
QSDS bug or not, but I was using the rules as written.


  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:09:00 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: RFC:  GenCon tournament

I don't know how many of you folks go to GenCon (besides Harold ;-), but
I'd like to run a T4 tournament there this year.  This is my proposal, as
T$R has mailed out everything late, but benevolently (raight...) extended
the dead line for me to submit my paperwork, I've only got a day or two to
take your comments.  I'll probably send it all out Wednesday PM, so scream
now.  TIA.


TERRORSPACE
"Saboteurs have disabled the maneuver drives...
A pirate corsair is closing fast...
The boarders are coming across...
Then someone flips THE switch!"

	3-rounds, 6 players per session
	single elimination, emphasis on elimination  ;-)
	players vote on MVPs to move up

Round 1:  Egad, pirates!    [3 sessions, 4 players from each move up]
Round 2:  X-space            [2 sessions, 3 players from each move up]
Round 3:  Where the blazes?  [1 session, 1 player wins the grand prize]

The setting is the Imperial subsidized liner Diapason (not sure which class
yet).

Situations will range from the psionic to the sublime, the engineering to
the engaging, from the cataclysmic to the cannibalistic (almost, T$R seems
to have a problem with cannibalism: isn't that ironic?)...  Okay, I'll quit
there.

Also, anybody who's planning on going this year who might like to sit in as
an assistant GM (or doesn't make it past Round 1 ;-), please drop me a
private note.  Or if you'd like to sponsor the not-so-grand-prize...  Heh. 
(I can only imagine:  "The tournament is brought to you by Billy-Jo-Bob's
UFO design web-thingy!")

If I don't get any publishing offers for Terrorspace *nudge-nudge*, I'll be
posting it to my website after GenCon, and I'd like for it to be top drawer
(nothing to do with boxer shorts, for the CAD-challenged out there), so
PLEASE shred my ideas if they displease you.

May your dice be warm and your players always rolling up new characters!

__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:48:21 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re: Half-dice and attributes

On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Susan M. Shock wrote:
> Realism gets sacrificed for simplicity and playability; thus it was in the
> olden days (say 1977) and thus it shall be today.
>         IMAGINATION can fill in where realism stops.

I just wish that this was the premise behind all the technical deisgn
manuals planned and in print :-)

Sorry, but I had to say that.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:32:41 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Traveller Digest 19: Missing Pages!

Quite some time ago, i purchased Issue 19 of the Taveller's Digest in 
a store. The shopkeeper told me that there were some pages missing, 
when he got it and let me have it at 50% off.
Still, now i wonder if all issues were so mutilated that  pages 
9-16 and 41-48 are missing, or if there also were complete issues.
If somebody on this list has this issue and is willing to photocopy 
the missing pages for me, i'd be very, very gateful!
Thanks,
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:55:11 -0500 (EST)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Spectacular Results (new)

In a message dated 97-02-24 04:46:34 EST, you write:

> > This gives 0.46% chance of spectacular failure and an equal chance of
>  > spectacular success (and is independent of difficulty), but avoids
giving 
> a
>  > spectacular for average or less difficulty.
>  > 
>  > Marc
>  
>  	This is better than the previous proposal but is not yet right.
>  The Spectacular Failure System seems about right however the Spectacular
>  Success System is broken.  As you roll more dice the odds of getting 3
>  ones goes up.  Therefore under this system you would have a greater
>  chance of a Spectacular Success at an Impossible Task than you would at
>  a Difficult Task, and this is _wrong_.  I am not sure how to fix this
>  however.
>  
>  	I would also like to suggest the adoption, or at least the optional
>  adoption of the 2X Skill and 0.5 x Attribute System for Task Rolls.  I
>  think that T4's current task system (like TNE's) is _wrong_ because
>  training is more important than natural talent and not the reverse.

Not _wrong_. It says that the chance of spectacular success/failure is about
the same across the board for the hard tasks. Its a small percentage, but
enough to happen once in a while.

As for the skill vs characteristic controversy, I go back to the arfgument
that Lester Smith gave me in favor of it... that is, characteristic lays a
foundation and creates the basic expectation, while skill (usually in smaller
numbers) helps make the final determination. That's why we shifted to lower
is better.

Marc

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #989
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 25 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 990



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)
To kill an Archduke! by DGP!
Re: Traveller on IRC
Re: Your question on TML Re: PBG and their numbers
Lasers and plastic batteries, 3G^3 style
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Skills versus Attributes
Roswell Incident
Re: Anti-Hijack Systems
Fission Drives
Re: Generalizations
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: Bell Curves and Realism
KBv1.1 and attrubutes  was (Re: I don't get it)
Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)  
Re: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)
Re: Traveller on IRC
T4//Yet another Task System variant
Re: Spectacular Results (new)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 18:05 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297)

In-Reply-To: <330E2B17.3396@hotstar.net>

<< The problem with this is it still makes attributes more important than 
skills. You get the 
AD&D syndrome wherein having straight 18's is the definition of a good 
character, rather 
than having a particular skill. Too often someopne has lousy stats but 
managed to get a high 
skill level (5-6 say) but has a stat of 5-6. Along come Mr."I've got 10+ in 
all attributes" and 
a major whack of skills of 1-2. One of the things that made CT so great was 
the fact that 
skills were the end all and be all of the game. Now, it seems that all that 
matters is high 
attributes. IMO, I would like both attributes and skills to matter, with 
the benefit of the doubt going to skills >>

I'd go for (1/2 Stat)+skill. This makes them more equal.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:26:13 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: To kill an Archduke! by DGP!

Once upon a time, the old DGP offered to send anyone interested their 
Tounament adventure "To kill an Archduke".
Sadly, i missed the deadline (DGP had folded by the time i reacted!) 
and i never got any replies to my letters!
Now i wonder if anyone on the list maybe has a copy of it flying 
around their collections somewhere!
Now i do understand, if you're not willing to part with it (Hell, i 
wouldn't be either!), but maybe onb could post it on a web page or 
photocopy it?
Please answer me, i have been looking for this one for ages!
Just my 2 EuroCents,

V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --
- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:28:13 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller on IRC

> Greetings!
> 
> This week's topic is Planetology 101 by Doug Berry.  I'm really 
> looking forward to this one!
> 
> We'll be on IG's server, www.imperiumgames.com, port 6665 or 6666 
> beginning at 8:30pm EST. 

Forgive me for replying to my own post but....

The date is Thursday, February 25, 1997!  Small detail, but it might 
be important <G>

Suz 

Suzette C. Dollar
#traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:33:12 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Your question on TML Re: PBG and their numbers

> > Population = PopMod x10^(UPP PopDigit).....(number between
> > 0 and 9)
> > Belts = number of planetoid belts (asteroid belts) in
> > system. (generally 0-3) 
> > Gas Giants= Number of gas giants in system (generally 0-5)
> > 
> I have a reasonable collection of Traveller stuff - right back to the
> little black books - but it isn't in anything that *I* have seen before. So
> it must be pretty obscure!

I'll grant you, IG needs to make certain it explains these things to 
the new kids on the block.  But if you have a MegaTraveller Imperial 
Encyclopedia, then look near the back and you'll find the explanation 
of PBG.  Thats where I found it.  I'd give you the page number, but 
I'm not at home.

Suz
 

Suzette C. Dollar
#traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:35:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Lasers and plastic batteries, 3G^3 style

I see there are a lot of threads about this plastic battery thing and its 
efectiveness, I have decided to post the 3g3 figures again.  I also found 
out that some of the figures were incorect.

The 50watt thing was supposed to be 50joules.  I misread watt as joules per 
second.  And that is just for a 1 cm cube of the stuff.

Base:  1 cubic centimeter of battery.
0.5g
500j storage
5j/sec max discharge rate

Used for a magazine:
10cm x 5cm x 1cm is 50cm^3
25g   25000j@250j/sec or shot.  100shots.
(250 x 0.735/10mm diameter)^0.5 = 4.28DV
(4.28^0.43)-1= 0.86 or 1 T4 Damage
jah, pretty wimpy. but thats for a 1 second charge.
If we use this system, we get a clip that can power a 250joule weapon 100 
times.
or...

I foget how it works in T4, but back in TNE each round was 5seconds,  if you 
wish you could forgo the 5 shots for full auto per round and charge up the 
pistol with 5 secs worth of juice.  This would make a 1250j shot.

(1250x0.735/10)^0.5=9.6DV
(9.6^0.43)-1=1.64 or 2 T4 Dammage
not bad, but still a little wimpy. About on par with a 9mm pistol.  But 
here's the clincher, no batery pack on the belt and no power cord.  the 
entire clip masses only 25g!  you can do more dammage with larger clips of 
course, as the discharge rate is proportional to stored energy, which is 
itself proportional to size.  (Discharge rate = 1% of total stored energy, 
accord to 3g^3)

Of course this is just for the TL-9 battery, i am thinking of coming out 
with progressively more effiecent batteries for each TL

From The Commander at the office
(pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:52:46 -0500
From: "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

Harold D. Hale wrote:

>    No, I'm hearing strong *emotional* arguments for D6, but no *logical*
> ones.  Can it be that there aren't any?

I think the logical argument would be psychology related.  In my
experience, people (particularly newcomers to role-playing games) are
simply much more comfortable with six-sided dice because they're used in a
gazillion other games.  They're familiar, have well-known characteristics
(even if only known subconsciously) and readily available.

It's easier to explain to a new player "Roll three dice and if your under
this number you've hit the creature and roll two dice for damage" than
"Roll a twenty-sided die over this number and if you do, then roll three of
those four-sided dice for your damage."  And I can't count the number of
times over the years I've seen people mix up a D12 for a D20, not to
mention how many times I've had to explain how to read a D4.

What it amounts to is people already grasp the concept of a D6 and can
concentrate on learning the game mechanics.

- -- Dave

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:14:00 -0800
From: Douglas McCorison <douglas@camax.com>
Subject: Skills versus Attributes

In the skills versus attributes discussion several people have 
stated something to the effect that attributes are more important
because when you train your dexterity goes up improving your 
chance of success at a task.

I do not argue that your dexterity goes up, the question that I 
have is, how much of that improved dexterity applies to other tasks?
Obviously some does.  However, not much.  The ability to accurately
fly an airplane does not help you as much with figure skating.  

So, _given_the_T4_task_mechanics_, which statistic better represents
this observed fact?  Skill or Attibute?

Note that here I am assuming T4 mechanics...  When I designed a 
RPG system myself (OK, it was a modified D&D) many years ago, I
set it up that as the character gained skills, they also gained
(more slowly) attributes.  The system worked, however, it was 
significantly more difficult to handle than T4.

Further, while it may, in some people's opinion, be less "realistic"
the game balance under standard T4 mechanics is swung strongly 
towards the character with high Attributes.  I prefer a game where
there is greater differentiation between characters and have thus
chosed to use a modified KBv1.1 task system.  My concern has
been over the (ab)use of Jack of All Trades possible in that system.
Even in T4 standard, I had a cast of characters wandering around
essentially running a starship on JOT and high stats.  It won't
happen again, but it was all within the rules....  :(

Douglas McCorison

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:27:48 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Roswell Incident

        Can anybody give me the date on which the alleged Roswell Incident
is supposed to have taken place?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:24:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Anti-Hijack Systems

I seem to remember using a TL15 Holographic Projector system built into
the ship to convince intruders that they are better off surrendering.

At TL15, I ruled, Holographic projections under controlled circumstances
(i.e. light levels, background colors, etc.) were all but indistiguishable
from the real thing (although still without solidity of course).  What the
players did was to rig up just a couple of strategically placed lasers and
gauss weapons which, at the right moment, would cause hijackers to believe
that the hulking, monstrous Zhodani Battle Robot in front of them was real
and well armed.

A Computer Program made the thing react as it should (I particularly
admired the sparks that flew when a gauss round passed *through* the
illusion).  All in all, an efffective deterrent which only failed once.

Pete 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:40:26 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Fission Drives

        Has anyone ever come up with a FF&S take on Fission Drives?  I'm
thinking about designing some very '50's-ish Heinleiny ships, but could use
some numbers for fission drives...

        Would taking the  wattage of fusion drive x, finding a fission
plant with the same output, and then multiplying that fusion drive's thrust
by .9 and its fuel consumption by 1.1, and adding the weight of a HEPlaR
recomubustion chamber of the same thrust (to provide weight for nozzles
etc) be a good hack?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:36 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Generalizations

> I would like to point out that this kind of generalization above is not
> accurate. It is not what I want.

Well, heck, Allen, I could have guessed that it was not what you 
want.<g>

What is it you want anyway?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:37 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

>      Okay, this will also be emotional rather than logical but here are a few
> reasons why I like D6-only Traveller:
> 
> 1) It's (almost) always been that way, dammit!


LOL!  You never cease to crack me up!

Kenneth.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:35 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

>    No, I'm hearing strong *emotional* arguments for D6, but no *logical*
> ones.  Can it be that there aren't any?

I admit, Harold, my argument for the D6 in Traveller is strictly 
emotional--which is usually unlike me.  It was me, after all, who 
wanted to change the jump time to a variable amount based on 
different jump drives instead of the cannonical one weel no matter 
what system.

But, then again, our resident jump guru, Glenn Hoppe, changed my 
life, and now I'm a one week convert.

But as for the D6, it is strictly emotional, I'm embarrassed to say.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:38 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Curves and Realism

> Reasons why not to use them:
> 	1	they make figuring % chances somewhat more difficult
> 	2	they require 3 or more dice to be rolled.

What?  Any time you are adding 2 or more dice for a total, it is a 
bell curve.

> CT and MT DO NOT use bell-cured distributions. They use a traingular
> distribution; with mose of the same benefits and limitations.
> 2d6 histogram
> Roll	Probaility
> 2	*
> 3	**
> 4	***
> 5	****
> 6	*****
> 7	******
> 8	*****
> 9	****
> 10	***
> 11	**
> 12	*

Buddy, I don't know where you learned math, but that's a bell curve.  
It may look triangular because of your histogram, but it is a bell 
curve.

This curve just doesn't curve as much as, say, a 6D bell curve would.


> 1st thing I was taught in Statistics: When in doubt, look for a bell curve;
> it usually appears in any large sample.

You should have been taught that, in craps, using 2 D6, its a bell 
curve, too.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:32 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: KBv1.1 and attrubutes  was (Re: I don't get it)

  I just disagree with Ken: I think natural talent is far more
> important than skill, most things being equal -- especially physical tasks.

I'd like to see you back this up.  I can't think of many endeavors 
that skill, training, and experience wouldn't increase success in.

That's why incredibly naturally talented Olympic hopefuls train every 
day.  They are raising their skill levels.

If natural ability was all that mattered, then they wouldn't train at 
all.  
	Announcer:  "Yesterday he was working in a Pizza House in upstate 
	New York, and today he's won the Gold Medal for long distance 
	running."

It just doesn't happen.

Maybe your thinking is--if I take somebody who is Olympic caliber but 
doesn't train and pit them against somebody who's a coach potatoe, 
then natural ability is bound to win out.

Well, I agree with this to a certain point, and KBv1.1 accounts for 
these types of situations.

Let's look at an example.

Ollie could have gone to the Olympics, but he never trained.  He's 
got great natural ability, though.  Stat-15, Skill-1.

Now, Carl used to think that he was a contender, but that was a long 
time ago.  He's done some training, but decided that it was just too 
much work.  He's relegated himself to being a couch potatoe.  Stat-4, 
Skill-2.

Ollie "the Olympic could have been" has a target number of 11 under 
KBv1.1.

Carl "the coach potatoe" has a target number of 6, under KBv1.1, 
which is half that of Ollie's.

Isn't it clear here that natural ability wins out over higher skill 
in KBv1.1?

Even if Carl's skill was 3, three times Ollie's, he'd still only have 
a 8 target number--still much below Ollie's.

In fact, Carl would have to have a level 4 skill just to be able to 
compete with Ollie (Carl's level 4 gives a target number of 10), and 
Ollies would still have the edge.

Of course, this would mean that Carl was no longer a couch 
potatoe--he's highly skilled with a level-4 skill.  I'd pick him more 
to be a coach at this point.  He know how to do it, he just doesn't 
have the natural ability to compete any more.

All of these examples show how KBv1.1 deals with attributes.

They are by no means trivial to the target number calculation.

The only difference is that skills now  mean something.  You should 
go back and try these examples under the T4 system.

Attributes mean even more, and skills add just about nothing to a 
character's success.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:33 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)  

Anybody interested in folling the task system debate should read this 
post.  David has some thoughts that are prevalent among some of the 
thread followees.

This post will get your thinking on the right track.


> Why stop with 6D?  If skills can, essentially, be open-ended, why not leave
> it open to devious GMs to require a 9D task roll?
> 
> Heh.  I like this.  "So, you want to jump from the air raft, do a double
> air-borne somersault, land on your feet, and catch your cutlass, which the
> drinkbot launched toward you, with what you assumed would be
> machine-perfect accuracy?  Hmmm...  Sounds like a 10D task to me.  Oh, you
> don't have telekinesis?  Or clairvoyance?  Make that 15D..."  There's
> something to be said for combining task rolls, after all.

If you took the time to analyze the numbers of the system that you 
are advocating here, you would not be advocating it.

Becasue we are talking about the bell curves of several dice, the 
more dice you add, the more steep the curve.

10 or 15 D6 would be incredibly steep, meaning that not even a high 
stated/leveled character could accomplish this.

It is not an even progression between different curves (say rolling 
4D6 vs rolling 3D6).

A target number of 10 has a 91.67 % chance (adjusted for SF) on 2 D6. 
 Linear thinking leads us to believe that if we add one die to the 
mix, this should halve the number, and guess what--it does just about 
that.  Rolling a 10 or less on 3 D6 is a 50% proposition.

Well, heck, if that holds true, then adding one more die should halve 
it again, right?  Wrong.

You only have a 15.9% chance of rolling a 10 or less on 4 D6 where 
you would expect it to me around.  This is not the 25% that you would 
expect.  

Then, at 5 D6, we might expect another drop by half, but from where?  
The 15.9% or the 25%.  

Whatever the case, the chance of rolling a 10 or less on 5 D6 is 
3.24%.  Not the 8% that we might expect (judging from the 15.9% 
before).

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Adding more dice to the difficulty throw does increase the 
difficulty, but it doesn't do it in a linear fashion.  It may seem 
that way at first, but what it does is increase the difficulty 
EXPONENTIALLY at the higher numbers.

It is like a train leaving the station.  It starts out slow but 
rapidly picks up steam.

What we are seeing is the bell curve becoming steeper and steeper.  
At first, it is almost a line with a good slope.  Then, it starts 
turning up, and goes to a sharp peak.  It's a wishbone shaped curve 
when you add a lot of dice.

 David, a 15 D6 task?  Without the numbers 
in front of me, I can tell you that even if you had a 15 target 
number, which is pretty good, your chance of rolling that on 15 DICE 
is just about 0%.  As a matter of fact, you'd need a target number of 
around 90 just to have a 50% chance of success.

My suggestion to you is, when the characters want to pull off the 
impossible, use the Impossible dice code, but add some additional 
modifiers to the roll.

Kenneth.  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:54:31 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)

> I think we may have a dilemma here: the mental-physical dichotomy has
> reared its ugly head.  I will posit that physical stats are MORE IMPORTANT
> than skill for most any type of athletic activity, but that for
> "professional" type skills -- FoEx, an MD -- the skill MAY be more
> important.
> 
> The problem lies in the examples chosen to promote a given task system. 
> Marc, and I, were probably thinking in terms of physical activities, whilst
> Dr. Vince has been brooding over the state of the medical profession.

You are the one confusing the issues here.  Both attributes and 
skills cover BOTH realms of the physical and mental ability.

Attributes (or skills) are not just Physical, and neither is not just 
Mental.

STR, DEX, and END are physical attrubutes, conveying physical 
prowess.  INT and EDU, though, are mental attrubtes, conveying mental 
ability.

Likewise, Brawling, Pistol, and Athletics (albeit the mental realm 
helps these some too) are all physical skills whereas Medical, 
Astrogation, and Language are all mental skills (albeit the physical 
realm is necessary too).

Given this, I declare that your above argument is flawed.  Skills and 
Stats do not seperate the mental and physical worlds, rather they 
both combine them.

 Under the KB
> system,
> > skill is primary, and training (enough of it) can overcome a low stat.

Wrong again here, too.  Skill is not primary in KBv1.1.  The system 
only fixes the end-all-and-be-all of the attribute in the T4 system.

Under T4, attribute is primary, but in KBv1.1, the opposite doesn't 
occur.  Rather, both are put on a more level playing field.

See my rebuttal to your other post for some clear examples on this.  


> I will argue, again, that someone will not have training without at least
> an average or higher stat in an area...  Would an MD really ever be
> produced with an EDU of lower than 7? 

Sorry, David, I'm not trying to be mean.  I just can't agree with a 
word you've said.  I'm trying to.  I really am.

What I think you are doing here is confusing the broad nature of 
skills and attributes in Traveller.  You point above is well taken, 
but I'd argue that it is a big universe.  Strange things will 
happen, and I'm not going to rule out that some poor slob on some 
rock out there would not become an MD just because his EDU might be 
lower than 7.

This might be the rule (I'm not saying it is--just using your 
definition for the example) on most civilized planets, but isn't it 
possible for a person to obtain and MD level of skill without going 
through formal training?

What about the guy (off the top of my head) whose world has been 
taken over by an evil dictator?  This guy's been in the resistance 
ever since he was 9 years old, and has chance would take him, he's 
been helping the doctors help care for the freedom fighters.  Now, 
he's 29 years old, and although he's never had any offical training, 
he's picked up a lot along the way because of his trial by fire.

In Traveller terms, his skill has increased due to his exposure and 
learning by doing.  Also, he's seen and reparied a lot more wounds 
than most medically educated interns in a high tech emergency room on 
some other planets.

Couldn't this situation happen in Traveller?  If so, then your 
argument doesn't hold water.

Getting back to my original point, I think that you are confusing the 
broad nature of Traveller stats and skills.

Traveller skills can be broad.  Grav Craft, for ex, is very broad in 
that it allows you to operate many types of vehicles--not just one 
type.  You can fly grave belts and air rafts--two totally different 
types of operation.

Traveller skills can also be narrow.  Acting, for instance, only 
covers this one type of action.

Regardless, all Traveller stats are broad.  DEX covers both the 
highly physical actions associated with Brawling, but also covers the 
simple hand-eye coordination associated with simply standing, aiming, 
and firing a weapon at a target--even though the only physical action 
is holding the gun and squeezing the trigger.

This shows that your physical-mental thinking argument is flawed.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:14:57 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller on IRC

> 	Well, which is it...Thursday, or Feb 25th? Unless Maricopa has
> seceded from the Universe, too, today is the 25th...and it's only Tuesday

Sigh.   The 27th.  Heck with it.... if you want to know what date... 
check out IG's web page <G>

Nothing like feeling really stupid twice in one day <G>

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:18:12 -0500 (EST)
From: fcain@st6000.sct.edu (Franklin W. Cain)
Subject: T4//Yet another Task System variant

I'm using the asset calculation method as presented
in T4 (Asset = Attribute + Skill_Level), and the following
difficulty levels:

#d6   Level
- ---   -----
1d6*  Easy/Simple
2d6   Average/Routine
3d6   Difficult
4d6   Formidable
6d6   Staggering
8d6   Impossible

Instead of using DM's, I'm adding (or subtracting) a number of d6,
based on the actual circumstances.  The minimum is 1d6; there is
no maximum.
(e.g.): A called shot would usually be +2d6 (instead of DM +5).

Spectacular results: 
Spec. Success occurs when the dice roll is /less/ /than/ /half/ 
of the asset.  Spec. Failure occurs when the dice roll is /more/
/than/ /twice/ the asset.
(e.g.): If a character has Attr-8 and Skill-5, giving asset-13, 
he scores a S.S. on 6-, or a S.F. on 27+.

Franklin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:39:29 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Spectacular Results (new)

> As for the skill vs characteristic controversy, I go back to the arfgument
> that Lester Smith gave me in favor of it... that is, characteristic lays a
> foundation and creates the basic expectation, while skill (usually in smaller
> numbers) helps make the final determination. That's why we shifted to lower
> is better.

Three reasons why I don't agree with Lester's thinking.

If we use Lester's argument, then characters are much 
more generic than if we use the skill is the same as attribute 
argument (note I didn't say skill is better than stat).

The reason for this?  There are  many more skills, some not even made 
up yet in future supplements, than there are stats.

There are now, and always will be, six Traveller stats ranging in 
level from 1-15.

But as I see it, the skills a person has defines him, and there are 
many more skills than there are attributes.

Also look at this--reason number two.  It's the more important 
reason.

Since the six attributes govern everything, Lester's thinking leads 
us to believe that a person will be about as successful in a fist 
fight as he is shooting a gun.

Those are two widely varried activities.  I, myself, am pretty good 
at shooting weapons.  It's all hand-eye coordination.  Physically, I 
just stand there and pull the trigger.

A fist fight is a whole different story.  I'd bet money that I'd get 
my butt kicked if I got in one.

Yet, under Lester's thinking, these would be about the same for me.  
Dex governs both Brawling and Gun Combat.  My skill level would tweak 
what my Dex brought to the calculation, but except for a few points, 
my chance to hit is much closer than if we used a system where skill 
had more impact.

This leads to much more generic characters.

I fall back on an example I heard from another TMLer--I think it was 
Doc Vince (maybe not).

He said that he had a character in his group that had Dex-4 and 
Pilot-4, but that this guy was good for nothing with his piddely ole 
8 target number.  He definitely wasn't the best pilot in the group.

But after switching to KBv1.1 where skills have a more important role 
in the target number calculation, this character actually took 
advantage of his level 4 pilot skill when his target number increased 
to 10.

In other words, under the T4 system, everything the character does 
with his Dex, because it is so low, will suck--all the varied tasks 
that Dex controls will have a low chance of succeeding.

In this system, how do you explain me?  I can shoot pretty good, but 
I can't brawl worth a damn.

If you create a system where skills are a little more important, 
characters can, at some point down the road, overcome their deficency 
in a particulary area with practice.

I for instance, may take Karate to increase my Brawling level.  
And, at some point down the road, I might even be able to beat 
someone with a much greater natural ability--because of my skill.

But this skill doesn't improve me in other Dex tasks.  I still shoot, 
or fence, or fly and aircraft the same as I did before.

That improvement will not be reflected in the same way under Lester's 
thinking.  In fact, I really have to improve a bunch before I can get 
that good.

A third comment on Lester's thinking is that, from a game stand 
point, players are encouraged to in crease their stats over 
increasing certain skills.  

This just doesn't seem right.  There should be more incentive to 
learn more skills and increase the ones you've got.

Skills shouldn't count for more than attributes, but they should 
count at least the same as attributes.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #990
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 25 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 991



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Characteristics
The Traveller Creed
Random Characters Rule!
Re: [T97#980] Anyone see a Ringworld pass thru?
THUDDD Voting Results
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Marc Miller, I need your help!
Re: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)
On the T4 Task system.
re: Fission Drives
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: Alien Races
Re: Roswell Incident
Re: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))
Re: Skills versus Attributes
re: Fission Drives
What Allen wants 
Attributes and Skills/Cake and Frosting!
Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions
Re: KBv1.1 and attrubutes  was (Re: I don't get it)
Re: Honesty and the Half-Die
MT-Careers
Glenn Hoppe, another convert needs converting
Re: Characteristics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:38:34 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Characteristics

>As for the skill vs characteristic controversy, I go back to the arfgument
>that Lester Smith gave me in favor of it... that is, characteristic lays a
>foundation and creates the basic expectation, while skill (usually in smaller
>numbers) helps make the final determination. That's why we shifted to lower
>is better.
>
>Marc

I would like to thank Marc for pointing this out. I would also like to say
that if ANYONE can show me hard evidence that attributes do NOT contribute
SIGNIFICANTLY to ability, I will go with the (attribute/2 + skill x2) crowd.
I contend that this all boils down to philosophy, and it is now apparent
that Marc's philosophy is that the task system in this respect remain
unaltered. And since Marc's name is on the game, his version of reality is
the one you're going to get. I choose to accept that version of reality, and
get on with playing Traveller.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:56:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: The Traveller Creed

> For the truly orthodox, among whom I count myself (-:, that article should
> be:
> 
> We believe in one die,_ black_, with six sides and _red_ spots.

Adapted from the Creed of the Gnostic Catholic Church, I proudly present:

   The Traveller Creed

I believe in one secret and ineffable Game, and in one future history in
the multiverse of future histories

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: 25 Feb 97 16:59:55 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Random Characters Rule!

>> Through the Traveller character gen process, my player 
is already   attached to him before he started playing the 
character.  He has   already lived with him before game 
session one.    Any system that can do that has my vote.    
Heck, I've even thought of using it to create characters in 
stories   that I write.    Kenneth.   <<

I play in several net games here on dear ol' CompuSpend. 
Many are "systemless", ie you construct your character as a 
description, roleplay it and the GM tells you what happens. 
In many of these cases I have used Traveller systems to 
create characters and then fitted them into the game world.

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]
| Hugh Foster                                 100326,446       |
|   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Hugh_Foster     |
| Clean mind, clean body: take your pick.                      |
[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 17:12:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T97#980] Anyone see a Ringworld pass thru?

Keith Thoms <kthoms@nooster.nosc.mil> hath scriven...

 ::>Wire", a 1-light year long by 20km tube where micro-jumps along the center
 ::>were instantaneous.  Openings back into real-space, in varying size,
 ::>occur at random intervals, durations, and locations in the Wire.  They
 ::>don't match up to any predictable systems either.  You look outside and
 ::>you take your chances...  It pre-dated the Ancients, and the laws of
 ::>physics fall apart near the ends (ie bad there).

 This sounds not unlike an adaptation of a certain Greg Bear
 trilogy?

 I always thought that that could be an interesting adventuring
 context - never thought to apply it to Traveller, though...

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  I don't think, therefore I work for the Government.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:34:32 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: THUDDD Voting Results

Just occurred to me...Out of curiosity, since I've not seen the number anywhere,
how many people voted in the THUDDD competition? Was it primarily voting by
people who entered ships, or by non-entrees? And what percentage of the list
members bothered to vote? (Just trying to get a feel for how many folks take 
their shipbuilding seriously<g>)....

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:49:42 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

At 02:54 PM 2/25/97 +0000, Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>
>>    No, I'm hearing strong *emotional* arguments for D6, but no *logical*
>> ones.  Can it be that there aren't any?
>
>I admit, Harold, my argument for the D6 in Traveller is strictly 
>emotional--which is usually unlike me.  It was me, after all, who 
>wanted to change the jump time to a variable amount based on 
>different jump drives instead of the cannonical one weel no matter 
>what system.
>
>But, then again, our resident jump guru, Glenn Hoppe, changed my 
>life, and now I'm a one week convert.

I'm a d6 agnostic I guess -- though I do still have a way cool pair of d20s
from when I started gaming about a million years ago (right beside the jade
d6s I won in adventure design competition :) ).

But... I too have had trouble with the one-week rule.  It makes for some
cool game balance issues, but I haven't been able to internalize a solid
rationale for it.  Kenneth (or Glenn?), care to enlighten me?

Mike Sellers
- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:44:59 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Marc Miller, I need your help!

Marc, and all of you on the TML, I need your help.

I am playing with a new idea that may cure the ills of the T4 task 
system and KBv1.1.

That is, it will get rid of the 1/2 die, reduce the math involved 
with KBv1.1, and still provide low probabilities for Impossible 
tasks.

First, I need to make a few assumptions.

Please help me to define these because the system will be based on 
the official definition.  In all cases below, we are talking about 
humans.

The questions that I need answers to are numbered.  In your reply, 
simply copy the number and question (you can delete all the other 
verbage) and state your reply.

I invite all who read this to make his opinion known, although I'm 
really looking to hear from Marc on these so that I can work from a 
official position.

Here goes...

Attributes.

This should be easy.  I am working from the assumption that 
attributes run from 1 to 15.  This is stated in the rules, so there 
should be no problem there.  

My assumption is that the average human attribute, that is "average 
human ability in the stat category", is 7 just like in CT.

1) Does anyone dispute that the average characteristic for a 
human is 7?  Marc Miller or anybody else on the TML?

OK, assumption two, and this will be a little more sticky.

The rules state that there are no maximum skill levels for a 
particular skill.  But, there comes a point when skills tend to max 
out, even if there is no predefined level limit.

My thinking is that the skill levels in T4 are valued as much as they 
were in CT.  The difference in T4 is that characters have more 
skills (which is a good change), but the value of each skill level 
for those skills, eventhough a character may have more of them, is 
the same as they were valued in CT.

That is, level 1 is a beginner level.  Level 3 is a professional 
level.

Given this, I am working from the position that skills max out at 
around 7-9.  It will be very, very rare for anybody, no matter how 
great they are, to have a level 10 skill.  Actually, I think even 
level 9's will be unheard of.

Also given these assumptions, I think that the average skill level 
that a character has will be around 2 or 3.  Picking one of these, 
I'd say that level 2 is the average skill level for a character.

2)  Are T4 skill levels valued the same as CT skill levels eventhough 
a character may have more skills?

3)  Do you dispute that level 1 skills are beginner level 
skills?  If so, what is a beginner level, in T4 terms, to you?

4) Do you agree that level 3 skills are professional level skills?  
If not, what level, in T4 terms, would you assign a professional 
level skill (like when a doctor graduates from med school, goes 
through his residency, and begins his practice)?

5) What would you say the average skill level is for a character?

6) At what level do you think T4 skills should max out at?  Not to 
impose a level limit, I'm asking what level do you think will be 
virtually unheard of for a character's skill?

All of your responses, especially Marc's, will be greatly 
appreciated.  

Maybe we can all benefit from this in haveing a common, official, 
definition for these questions and terms.

And, maybe I will be successful for this idea I have for KBv2.0.  

Thanks in advance,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 18:13:25 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)

In a message dated 2/25/97 8:51 AM, David Reed wrote:

>Proposal, Marc:  A REQUISITES section in the neo-Task definition, without
>which the difficulty goes up one level for each missing PIECE, such as the
>potential for tools exists in your examples.  Say:
>
>To commit plastic surgery on an unsedated canine (3 hours).
>(EDU + MED [3+]) + Tools (required) < Impossible (ALLd).

I want to second this proposal.

(Especially since I made this very same recommondation back when T4 first 
came out and Kenneth was hammering out his task fix ;-) 

===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:25:32 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: On the T4 Task system.

OK, here is a comment from someone who doesn't use the T4 task system but
has been watching some of the debate (which makes me neutral! :-).  One
problem with adding more dice to make impossible tasks more "impossible" is
that, as you add more dice, your distribution narrows.  This, when you roll
more dice the effect if a higher target number is magnified.  That is why
you see results where a low target number gives almost no chance of
success, but a good targer number, instead of giving a small but real
chance (say 10 %) has something near a 50-50 chance.

I'm not sure what to do about it.  You might roll bigger dice
instead of more dice.  You might also reduce all targer numbers
in some way.

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:28:41 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Fission Drives

>        Has anyone ever come up with a FF&S take on Fission Drives?  I'm
>thinking about designing some very '50's-ish Heinleiny ships, but could use
>some numbers for fission drives...
>
>        Would taking the  wattage of fusion drive x, finding a fission
>plant with the same output, and then multiplying that fusion drive's thrust
>by .9 and its fuel consumption by 1.1, and adding the weight of a HEPlaR
>recomubustion chamber of the same thrust (to provide weight for nozzles
>etc) be a good hack?

HEPlaR is astonishingly efficient - exhaust velocity much higher than any
imaginable fission drive, and it also fuses some of the hydrogen for energy
(and still bends conservation of energy.)

Conservatively, you might (per unit thrust) increase fuel consumption by a
factor of 100 relative to HEPlaR, power consumption by a factor of 10-100, 
and mass of the drive by a factor of 10. What you should end up with
(for a Heinleinesque drive) is something that can give you a few Gs
but with only enough fuel for tens of minutes of acceleration (a G-hour or
two total delta-V); Heinlein's ships in (say) "The Rolling Stones" didn't
have much delta-V at all.

Alternatively, look at George Herbert's table on MT low-tech thrusters,
at 
http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/house/thrusters.html
among other places - includes notes on converting to FFS format.

Don't forget to use the G-hours=ln(MR)/FC formula for these mostly-fuel ships.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 18:44:44 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

In a message dated 2/25/97 4:49 PM, Mike Sellers wrote:

>But... I too have had trouble with the one-week rule.  It makes for some
>cool game balance issues, but I haven't been able to internalize a solid
>rationale for it.  Kenneth (or Glenn?), care to enlighten me?

I thought you'd never ask. :-)

The solid rationale is this:

The charging of the jump grid creates a particle field which allows a 
starship to enter jumpspace. It is this field which encloses a 
normal-space "bubble" containing the ship. As long as the field is up the 
ship remains in jumpspace.

The field is generated by the jump grid, once the grid reaction is 
initiated, it cannot be stopped -- It must be allowed to run its course. 
It takes some time for the reaction to end; this time is 168 hours +/- 
10%.

Once the reaction is completed, the particle field is no longer being 
replenished, and hence the ship naturally "precipitates" out of jumpspace.

Sidebar: The reason why Lanthanum is used in the production of the jump 
grid is because its properties are such that it is the most efficient at 
"cooling". Other rare earths can be substituted at the expense of longer 
times for jump.

This is the rationale I came up with and internalized, and the one which 
made Ken a convert. (more or less, I'm paraphrasing from memory).

===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:54:31 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Alien Races

> William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
> Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

Or even MS Internet Mail ;)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:52:41 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <lordbasl@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
> 
>         Can anybody give me the date on which the alleged Roswell Incident
> is supposed to have taken place?

My understanding is July 2, 1946. 

Last year, ID4 was released on 3 July 1996.

This was _not_ a coincindence.

- --Rich "Manager, Area 52" Ostorero
lordbasl@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:01:17 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges? (was Re: T4 task system)

At 08:51 am 02/25/97 -0600, you wrote:
>might live, in different realms, of course.  It should be easier to develop
>EDU than to develop thighs as large as my torso, I think.

	As somebody who is desperately trying to gain weight (eating 3,500 to
4,500 calories a day ...), and working on a master's degree, I would tend
to agree :)
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:01:10 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

At 12:25 am 02/25/97 -0800, you wrote:
>probability curves and task rules, we possibly do.  Just consider it an
Article
>of Faith in the Traveller's Creed ("We believe in one die, with six sides
and 
>spots") and leave it at that.

	Well, I guess I'll have to found a schism or sumthin'. Anybody else wanna
join me in eternal damnation?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:01:24 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: I don't get it (was: Re: Tasks (Draft 022297))

At 04:18 pm 02/25/97 +0100, you wrote:

>Everybody who measure things in the real world knows that most measurable
>stuff has bell shaped distributions (or are forced to have one to be
                                     ================================
>calculable;).
==============

	In other words, we treat everything as if it did have a bell-shaped curve,
just so we can handle it mathematically, whether it does or not ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:01:29 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Skills versus Attributes

At 12:14 pm 02/25/97 -0800, you wrote:
>.  My concern has
>been over the (ab)use of Jack of All Trades possible in that system.
>Even in T4 standard, I had a cast of characters wandering around
>essentially running a starship on JOT and high stats.  It won't
>happen again, but it was all within the rules....  :(

	Here's an idea for JoaT. Instead of letting you substitute JoaT for
anything, what it does is allow you to improvise or pull together
bits'n'pieces of information to try to accomplish the task. For a task
where you don't have the skill, a successful roll vs JoaT at the SAME
difficulty allows you to avoid the unskilled penalty. In other words, your
eclectic knowledge was enough to give you a temporary skill-0.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:20:24 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: re: Fission Drives

At 16:28 2/25/97, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
[snip]
>
>Conservatively, you might (per unit thrust) increase fuel consumption by a
>factor of 100 relative to HEPlaR, power consumption by a factor of 10-100,
>and mass of the drive by a factor of 10. What you should end up with
>(for a Heinleinesque drive) is something that can give you a few Gs
>but with only enough fuel for tens of minutes of acceleration (a G-hour or
>two total delta-V); Heinlein's ships in (say) "The Rolling Stones" didn't
>have much delta-V at all.
>
>Alternatively, look at George Herbert's table on MT low-tech thrusters,
>at
>http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/house/thrusters.html
>among other places - includes notes on converting to FFS format.


        Will do!  Many thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:51:39 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: What Allen wants 

>> I would like to point out that this kind of generalization above is not
>> accurate. It is not what I want.
>
>Well, heck, Allen, I could have guessed that it was not what you
>want.<g>
>
>What is it you want anyway?

Well, aside from a 1965 Corvette convertible...

I want a task system that is easy to use but flexible enough to adapt to
what I need. Marc's proposed system does that. yes, there are a couple
things I would like tweaked (a better method of determining Spec
Success/Failure, and a somewhat less omnipotent version of JOT), but I don't
think there's anything wrong with the balance of attributes vs. skills. I
think that "reality" cannot be modelled in a game, especially one with as
limited a spread of attributes and skills as Traveller has. It requires a
much more complex game to even get close.
and I don't want it to! I play Traveller to recreate the FICTION I enjoy.
This "reality" that Traveller supposedly emulates comes from the fact that
the characters are lower in ability than those in a lot of games. I don't
believe it really exists-and I'm glad for that.
                                                Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 18:24:46 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Attributes and Skills/Cake and Frosting!

On 02/25/97 at 12:55 PM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

> As for the skill vs characteristic controversy, I go back to the
> arfgument that Lester Smith gave me in favor of it... that is,
> characteristic lays a foundation and creates the basic expectation, while
> skill (usually in smaller numbers) helps make the final determination.

Marc,

I think that the Attributes..or Characteristics, if you will..should form
the *foundation* for skills, but the foundation isn't the house!  I'd
rather see a system where the basic characteristic modifies how much each
increase in skill contributes to the total.  

I don't like the situation where a single high stat..say EDU..constitutes
the majority of the totals for dozens of different skills.  

Maybe we need more Attributes...<g>

> That's why we shifted to lower is better.

Lower is better *is* a better way to go.  I want that to stay in whatever
system is settled on.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:05:49 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A couple of rules questions

...<cut>
>I think you are right, but if you turned the grav-plates off before
>deploying it, even in a vacuum you'd have a sphereoid cloud of non-dispersed
>paint/smoke particles. That would be really great stopping beam weapon fire...
>

Actually, the fight in which the question came up involved boarding a
derelict, holed, ship whose power was completely out...  The players opted
for paint bombs because none of us could figure out what'd happen to a bunch
of dust in a non-gravved vacuum!  We figured the paint, at least, would
stick or spatter on impact. NPCs were more irritated than anything else when
surprised with a paint bomb - one whose visor got sprayed was blinded until
he could get the paint off... Reading several of the responses to my query
(BTW - Tx to all of you who did throw in yr Cr02 - most helpful and
educational!), I got to thinking...  It's pretty cold in a vacuum not
exposed to sunlight.  What sorts of chemicals would stay liquid in such an
environment - or at least gooey/sticky enough to be a hazard? Tx! - Bill




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:35:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: Re: KBv1.1 and attrubutes  was (Re: I don't get it)

>Now, Carl used to think that he was a contender, but that was a long 
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is this a shot at certain American olympic athletes?  :)  j/k

Thanks,
             
                              pmiller@linkeasy.net
             \-----------------------------------------------/
              \             PETER J. MILLER                 /
               \-------------------------------------------/
                \     http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/      /
                 \  Traveller, RPGs, Imperium Games FAQ  /
                  \-------------------------------------/
                        http://www.irevolution.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:39:42 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Honesty and the Half-Die

...<cut>
>Or you can have each player designate a different colored D6 at the 
>start of the game to always be his D3.
>

I got lucky.  I found several D3 at a flea market! They look just like D6
but have only 1s, 2s, and 3s on 'em...  

Note to IG:  Contact the Armory, in Baltimore, MD - they make lots of dice
in lots of colors and sizes... Why not see whether they'll do a set of
Traveller dice?  Perhaps one of their little clear plastic boxes with a
dozen black w/red pipped D6 and four D3s...  Assuming, of course, that the
D3 stays around awhile...





- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:03:22 +0100
From: Helmer Jensen <Helmer@netg.se>
Subject: MT-Careers

Is there anybody out there who have designed more Advanced Character
Generations Careers for MT and would like to share them with me or the
list?

//Helmer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:08:05 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Glenn Hoppe, another convert needs converting

> At 02:54 PM 2/25/97 +0000, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> >I admit, Harold, my argument for the D6 in Traveller is strictly 
> >emotional--which is usually unlike me.  It was me, after all, who 
> >wanted to change the jump time to a variable amount based on 
> >different jump drives instead of the cannonical one weel no matter 
> >what system.
> >
> >But, then again, our resident jump guru, Glenn Hoppe, changed my 
> >life, and now I'm a one week convert.
> 
> I'm a d6 agnostic I guess -- though I do still have a way cool pair of d20s
> from when I started gaming about a million years ago (right beside the jade
> d6s I won in adventure design competition :) ).
> 
> But... I too have had trouble with the one-week rule.  It makes for some
> cool game balance issues, but I haven't been able to internalize a solid
> rationale for it.  Kenneth (or Glenn?), care to enlighten me?
> 
> Mike Sellers


Glenn?  Master?  

I have broughteth thee another convert.

What is thy will?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:08:07 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Characteristics

 I would also like to say
> that if ANYONE can show me hard evidence that attributes do NOT contribute
> SIGNIFICANTLY to ability, I will go with the (attribute/2 + skill x2) crowd.

Allen, Allen, Allen.

The attribute/2 + skill x 2 crowd is not saying that attributes 
should not SIGNIFICANTLY contribute to success.  They are just saying 
that skills should also SIGNIFICANTLY contribute to success too.

With T4, the way it is, skills pale in comparison to attributes.  
Under KBv1.1, they are weighted about the same.

Attributes are not the end all and be all of success.  Skill has a 
big contribution to make as well.

In T4, skill only tweaks.

We are not trying to turn the tables on attributes.  We don't want 
skills to be the end all and be all of the target number either.  We 
just want them weighted about the same as attributes.

That's all.

And, I don't think Marc subscribes to this theroy as much as he wants 
to keep the game mechanics simple.

From what I've seen, he doesn't like inconveinent math, as simple as 
it is, in the KBv1.1 system.  He wants addition only.

As a matter of fact, that's what I want too, but I also want 
skills weighted as much as attributes.


Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #991
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 992



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Marc Miller Post
Re: Attributes and Skills/Cake and Frosting!
Re: Skills versus Attributes
Re: micro survey
Glenn's theory (was A dice by any other name)
Info on Lasers
Re: A modest proposal (task system)
Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: CT Stats for Mercenary Cruiser ("Happy Fun Ball")
Traveller Dice
My .02Cr on Tasks
A question?
Re: MT Task System
Skills, Attributes, and so forth
Task System Follies
Skills
MT Task System
RE: tasks
"Ordinary Folks"
Tramps and Cargos
[off topic]
Re: Skills
Sarcasm: The Lost Art  (was Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?) )

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:14:15 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Marc Miller Post

Oh, and fellow TMLers, please post your answers to my questions on 
the TML.  In this case, don't send them to me directly.

I'm trying to get a consensus on these questions, and that is easier 
to do if others make rebuttals to your comments.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:39:32 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Attributes and Skills/Cake and Frosting!

> Lower is better *is* a better way to go.  I want that to stay in whatever
> system is settled on.

Although I agree with your post, I wanted to make this, ahem, 
emotional comment.

I really don't have an opinion of wether we roll higher or lower, but 
I'll tell you that I was a bit disappointed when I first realized 
that we had to roll lower to achieve success in T4.

There's just an emotional high that I miss from MT and CT from 
rolling boxcars.

Ahhh!  Damn, that feels good.  Boxcars!

Remember when you first rolled a natural 20 in D&D and your DM told 
you that you just made a perfect hit--double damage?

To quote Gordon Gekko (Wallstreet),  "It was better than sex."

Well, maybe not better than that, but upon doing the numbers, I found 
that rolling lower, under the T4 system of establishing target 
numbers to beat (up or down), is better because of the way SS and SF 
are handled.

The SS and SF method are one of the really ingenius ideas to come out 
of T4.  I'd say that this idea has been under appreciated by the 
masses, and I can only attribute that to not understanding its 
brillance.  I was agast when Marc was considering changing the SS/SF 
system to three 1's and three 6's.

In most games, the chance for SS is the same as the chance for SF.  
T4 is the first I've seen that increases your chance of SF and 
decreases your chance of SS the harder the task gets.

The harder a task becomes the harder it is to do really well at it-- 
and the easier it is to really screw up.

This is a really novel idea, and I've come to accept the lower is 
better concept.

But that high you get in rolling high is hard to give up.  If you've 
ever played craps at a casino, the T4 roll low method is like betting 
against the shooter.

And something like 85% of all craps players play with the shooter 
eventhough the odds are slightly higher if you bet against him.

Why is this?  One reason I would posit is that people like to roll 
high.

After all, a Yahtzee is five 6's, not five 1's.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:39:31 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Skills versus Attributes

> 	Here's an idea for JoaT. Instead of letting you substitute JoaT for
> anything, what it does is allow you to improvise or pull together
> bits'n'pieces of information to try to accomplish the task. For a task
> where you don't have the skill, a successful roll vs JoaT at the SAME
> difficulty allows you to avoid the unskilled penalty. In other words, your
> eclectic knowledge was enough to give you a temporary skill-0.

Dave, you have done a wonderful job on this.  I think that I'll use 
this from now on.

This TML thing is just a caldron of creative thought.  You should 
send your idea to Marc.  I think that this puts JOT back into the 
place it was originally intended to be.

It doesn't give characters a skill.  What it does is give characters 
a chance.  And, I can see them having to make the JOT roll you cited 
each and every time they try to use JOT to get them out of a jam.

Excellent thinking!

Good job!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:25:47 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: micro survey

>
>1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?
>
Tyr Gamemakers Ltd. published Space Quest, by Paul Hume and george Nyhen in
1977 - IIRC, just before or just after Traveller (I forget which...)
>




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:57:38 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Glenn's theory (was A dice by any other name)

> I thought you'd never ask. :-)

LOL!

> The solid rationale is this:

Say, Glenn, as you can tell, I get excited when I see ideas that I 
think are incredible.  Just look at my reply to Dave Golden's idea to 
fix the T4 problem with JOT.

Have you sent this to Marc or IG.  It is something that they should 
read as well.

A lot of Traveller players, at least many of the ones I've met in the 
last 14 years, can't buy the one-week-no-matter-what concept.  They 
either blindly accept, but don't like, the rule, or they come up 
with, like I did, a different concept that changes the one week rule.

Reason:  There has never been an offical product that puts it so 
succinctly.  Even DGP's grand work, the SOM, muddles over this 
particular topic.  I get the idea that DGP didn't like the idea 
either.

You should send your idea off to Marc and IG.  Even if they don't 
print it somewhere, they should be exposed to it.

Kenneth.


> The field is generated by the jump grid, once the grid reaction is 
> initiated, it cannot be stopped -- It must be allowed to run its course. 
> It takes some time for the reaction to end; this time is 168 hours +/- 
> 10%.

As a side note, one of the things you said that sold me was the 
materials used in the jump grid.

The question is, "why must the field, after being initialized, be 
allowed to run its course?  After all, we can start it but we can't 
stop it?"

And what you said to that was, "Maybe the materials used in the jump 
grid cannot be 'cooled down', for lack of a better term, faster than 
168 hours +/- 10%."

This made a whole heck of a lot of sense to me.  We can start and 
stop the effect, but today's technology (that is, Traveller 
technology) cannot at this point cool down the grid any faster.

Another thing that I like about this is that it leaves the door open. 
 Maybe in the future of Traveller, in a future milieu, it will be 
possible to cool down jump grids in a faster manner.

This also explains why, eventhough ships can travel variable 
distances, it always takes the same amount of time no matter what 
jump drive you are using.

The engineers are already cooling the damn things down as fast as 
possible now.

And this will remain so until new technology improves cool down time.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:58:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Info on Lasers

Someone posted info on how much physical damage lasers of various 
wattages would do.  I stupidly deleted this message, could someone repost 
it or email it to me.

Many Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:21:19 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (task system)

WWGS?!?

This is the same system that produced a result of no damage from an empty the mag burst 
from an Uzi

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:31:20 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: First Survey - What is PBG Column?

Robert Flammang wrote:
> I don't know what PBG means, but here's a guess:
>         Planetoids-Bases-GasGiants?

It stands for mass-as-gas (population (the masses)/number of asteroid belts(as)/and the 
number of gas giants (gas))

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 21:46:42 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

On 02/25/97 at 06:01 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

> Just consider it an Article of Faith in the Traveller's Creed ("We
> believe in one die, with six sides and spots") and leave it at that.

> 	Well, I guess I'll have to found a schism or sumthin'. Anybody else
> wanna join me in eternal damnation?

Ah! Another heretic leaves the church! ;->

Welcome to the outer darkness.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:29:03 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: CT Stats for Mercenary Cruiser ("Happy Fun Ball")

Mark Clark wrote:
>   This ship cannot be built using QSDS 1.4 (I tried).  The two modular
> cutters can't fit inside, and there isn't enough space outside to strap
> them on.  In the CT version, the cutters stick out the back of the ship; I
> guess one could fudge things by using a smaller than required hanger bay.
> I'm going to try again using QSDS 1.5 - I'll post the result in a few days.

The cutters have to be in docking rings (x 1 volume, no repairs)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:22:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Traveller Dice

Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net> wrote:

>> Just consider it an Article
>> of Faith in the Traveller's Creed ("We believe in one die, with six sides
>> and spots") and leave it at that.
>> Trent Smith
>
>For the truly orthodox, among whom I count myself (-:, that article should
>be:
>
>We believe in one die,_ black_, with six sides and _red_ spots.
>
 
   This reminds me of the article in JTAS#2 where MM (or possible LW?) couldn't
find such dice and related how he made his own with some red paint. 
Admittedly, this story's ~20 years out of date, so I'm wondering if this
color-scheme is currently available.  I've been intending to buy myself a set
of such "Traveller dice" (as well as 1 red w/black spots for use as D3 or the
"tens digit") but I never think about it when I'm actually at the game store.  
My current set, black + white with little skulls for 1's, just don't seem right
for Traveller, somehow.
   As for Dave "heresiarch" Golden, I can only shake my head with sorrow and
wonder how such a promising soul could be led so terribly astray.  And, oh 
yeah, I'm afraid we're going to have to burn you at the stake now, so please 
stay put at your computer terminal, meditate upon the error of your ways, and 
wait for us to arrive


Dice-Orthodoxy Enforcer,
Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:20:50 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: My .02Cr on Tasks

Well, I don't have the time to get involved with the Task System discussion
that is currently going on, but I do have a few comments that I'd like to
throw in.

1.  Great idea to ditch the D3's.  The are not so much of a problem as they
are a hassle.  Whole numbers fit better into my feeble mind. :)

2.  I have two skills that I would like to see added.  If you feel these
skills are already covered in others, I'd sure like you to tell me where,
cause I couldn't find em. :)

     Farming -  The science of raising crops/livestock.
     Steward -  The ability to handle Higher society passengers on Starships.

3.  I would like to see a return to Charisma an Attribute, and put Social
Standing as an extended attribute.  The reason is because there are some
skills that would be limited by a low Social Standing, but shouldn't be.
Forexample, Han Solo in, IMHO, a great Carouser, however, when we first meet
him (before joining the rebellion) he has a low social standing as a
smuggler/rogue.  Why should he be punished for his low social standing when
he actually should get a bonus, because it is a benefit.  Carousing in the
cantina is a perfect example, it is not his SOC, EDU, or INT that help him
do it well. (And is certainly isn't STR, DEX, or END.) So what is it that
makes him good?  It is his Charisma.

4.  While I am in favor of the 1/2 attribute twice skill method, I'm not
sure I've seen the following comparison done yet.  T4 is the attribute +
skill method, and KB is the 1/2 attribute + twice skill method.

        Novice    Advanced   Expert     Master
Skill     1          3          5          7
Attr.  T4   KB    T4   KB    T4   KB    T4   KB
  1     2    2     4    6     6   10     8   14
  2     3    3     5    7     7   11     9   15
  3     4    3     6    7     8   11    10   15
  4     5    4     7    8     9   12    11   16
* 5     6    4     8    8    10   12    12   16
* 6     7    5     9    9    11   13    13   17
* 7     8    5    10    9    12   13    14   17
* 8     9    6    11   10    13   14    15   18
* 9    10    6    12   10    14   14    16   18
* A    11    7    13   11    15   15    17   19
* B    12    7    14   11    16   15    18   19
  C    13    8    15   12    17   16    19   20
  D    14    8    16   12    18   16    20   20
  E    15    9    17   13    19   17    21   21
  F    16    9    18   13    20   17    22   21

Wow, interesting that this lowers the target number for the normal PCs
(Assuming Attr 5-B and skill 1-3).  I like this, and I will probably use it
to one degree or another no matter what method is chosen to be official, but
It would be nice if this is the official method.

Paul {tiger}
tiger@goldinc.com
http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:20:54 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com>
Subject: A question?

I was just wondering if anyone else had done a Referee technique that I call
porting?

Porting is pulling a character from another Sci Fi source or a literary
work, or even a contemporary/historical character into your game (with
complete NPC stats and all).  I was trying this today with some ideas to put
some Popular Sci-Fi people into Traveller terms, and I ran into a problem.

Many people have some time in their life where they really don't do anything
listed as a career in the Traveller Rules.  They do some things, but often
they are not important, or at least don't really match up into a "real"
Traveller Career.  Take Luke Skywalker for example, I have a very hard time
believing that he is only 17 when the first movie starts.  In Traveller
terms, I would say that he is 21 (especially since IIRC, he and Leah are
twins and she is already performing Diplomatic functions).  So what career
would you say was that first "term" of young Luke's life?

With this in mind, I'm working on the creation of a General Career.  While
it is not yet done, I have the basic idea sketched out in my head.  I'm
going to try to get it down on paper in the near future and if I like it,
I'll post it here.  In the mean time, I'd appreciate any comments that
anyone has.

Paul {tiger}
tiger@goldinc.com
http://www.goldinc.com/~tiger

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:41:29 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: MT Task System

Anders Backman wrote:
> First; all characteristics was optimised at 5, 10, 15 and the poor chaps
> with 14 in INT was just as smart as those with 10. 

That of course changed as you were wounded..but try using (stat/3)-1 or (stat+1)/4 to give 
attributes more than just a tiny modifier

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:55:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Skills, Attributes, and so forth

     Because I'm fickle-natured, and because no really good solution has come
along yet, I'm almost ready to concede defeat and accept the fact that
attributes carry more weight than skills in T4.  The recent "pro-attributes"
posts have led me back to believing that it really is just a matter of taste
and feel, and that neither system is fundamentally better than the other
(except that, as it now stands, the pro-skills side requires more in-game math
and extra kuldge-steps).
     However, before I change sides totally, I have to point out that if the
current stat-favoring system stays in place, then there's a problem with
character generation, and stat increases will need to be removed from the Skill
Charts (or at least made to cost extra).  As the system currently stands, not
just abusive mini-maxers, but anybody would be remiss not to increase their
various stats (especially  DEX,INT, or EDU) up as high as possible and then
load up with a bunch of level-1 skills, 'cause such characters will be much
more effective in the game than their "moderate stats and a few pretty good
skills" counterparts (ie- traditional Traveller PCs).

     For example, if John P. Character has DEX 8 and spends two terms (for 10 
advances) he could raise his DEX to 12 and take 6 level-1 skills, giving him a
target number of 13 with a variety of tasks, or he could take, say, 2 level-5
skills, giving him a target number of 13 in two tasks, but a 4 (unskilled) in
everything else.  The first option is obviously the "better" character, and I
don't think it takes an abusive mini-maxing mind to realize this.

     In order to maintain some sense of balance and proportion here, increasing
attributes MUST be made more costly than increasing skills, simply because the
effects are so much more far-reaching.  In order to maintain balance, I'd say
that the stat cost should be 3 to 4 times the skill cost, so in our example
above, Option One could only increase his DEX to 10 (@ 3 pts) and get 4 level-1
skills, giving him target numbers of 11-- he's still more versatile than
option two, but also not quite as "good" in his areas of expertise, and thus
more balanced.
                                                                 
     I strongly urge all pro-stat people to give this modification
consideration, because wihout it, character generation will become an abusive
player's paradise, and will cause endless headaches for GMs and players
(especially non-statistically minded ones) alike.

Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:38:27 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Task System Follies

> I would also like to say
>> that if ANYONE can show me hard evidence that attributes do NOT contribute
>> SIGNIFICANTLY to ability, I will go with the (attribute/2 + skill x2) crowd.
>
>Allen, Allen, Allen.

This comes dangerously close to being patronizing. That and a certain amount
of pushiness is what is really beginning to annoy me about this discussion...

(major snippage)

>As a matter of fact, that's what I want too, but I also want
>skills weighted as much as attributes.

Then I have a suggestion. DOUBLE the number of skill levels characters get
and double the number of dice used at each difficulty level. This way, a
level 6 would be considered professional level. Give 2 skill levels per year
in character generation and 2 for each promotion, etc. This allows skills to
be more finely distributed, increases the relative proportion of skill to
attribute, and even allows tweaking the task system to have Intermediate
levels between the current ones. I am quite sure that the powers that be
won't go for that, and someone will invariably yell "but then an average
task isn't 2D anymore and that's not Traveller..." but it would work.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:04:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Skills

Hmmm.  I agree with the comment that we need to clarify that if a
given is Average, then _who_ is it average for?  I would say that we
assume that tasks are rated for _professionals_.

So Joe Blow has Dex 12, and Medical 1.  He attempts an Average
laproscopic cholecystectomy (removing the gallbladder).  The target
number is 13!  Do you really think this makes any sense?

Dr. Dianna Blow (his sister) is a 2d year surgery resident, with Dex 8
and Medical 3.  She has a ~3% chance of screwing up, while her
brother the EMT can do this sucker hung over (-1 DM :-) every time.

This is _screwy_.

I say that we take the Lap Choly task as Average for a pro.  For
each skill level below "Professional" we make the task a Difficulty
level harder.  So Joe can try the proceedure, but he goes for his
target number of 13 on 3d6, not 2d6.

(that assumes 3 is "professional.")

Does this make sense to any body else?

In this case if a professional pilot is 3 (a "Masters License" from
the Merchant Association), then pilot task diff levels are based on
pilot 3 skill.

This will be trickier for things like bribery, but those skills
might have more to do with attributes any way.

There, that's my take, and it doesn't really require a fix, just a
clarification.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:03:47 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: MT Task System

>From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
>Subject: MT Task System
>
>Well, i always continued to used the olde MT Task System, and i
>wouldn't think anything of it if IT got chosen (with slight reworking,
>maybe) as the "NEW" T4 Task system!

Here, here!



William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:54:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: RE: tasks

>In response to an idea of mine, "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>DIFFICULTY TABLE
>>>Easy/Simple       Auto (1D)
>>>Average/Routine   2D
>>>Difficult         3D
>>>Formidable        4D
>>>Staggering        6D
>>>Near Impossible   8D
>>>
>>>
[snip]
>Well, I already admitted that under such a system we'd have to re-define the
>Crit. rules, so that doesn't bother me.  I figure we get the basic
>success/fail
>numbers taken care of first, then worry about the extra rules.  My guess,
>though, is that under this progression, we'd have to go back to a "Fail by
>N+"
>system for CritFails (like MT and TNE?), rather than the current
>"dice-counting" systems.
I'd go with fail by double, or more sizes than other #'s rolled, dependant
upon difficulty. I'd use by double for any at all, and more 6's on 3d or
harder.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:02:06 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: "Ordinary Folks"

>  The characters are still
>fundamentally ordinary people - they may if they're lucky change the
>balance of power in a subsector but they're not going to place Norris on
>the throne of the Imperium no matter how hard they try.  This is why NPC's
>are just as good as PC's, combat is deadly and Imperial Marines don't fire
>wildly and miss.  In MY Traveller the characters aren't super-heroes, just
>ordinary people in extra-ordinary situations.
>
>YMMV of course.

Actually, I run PC's as "Ordinary Folks" (avoiding "Joe" reference to avoid
insulting our Zhodani friends), with extra-ordinary drive. I have (in one
campaign) had 3 nobles as PC's, and they DID find a way to put Dulinor on
the throne... but it took a 12 month campaign ccovering some 3+ years, a
lot of wheeling and dealing, and calling in markers, for them to get enough
clout to try. Then Survival margin came out....

Anyway, I figure that CGen produces slightly above average individuals, but
ones who are representative of the career types shown. Not =FCbermenschen
(ubermenschen=3Dovermen~supermen), but the higher half of the 1st Std
Deviation. With a few exceptions, who tend to be +-2 SD. When CGen allows
PC's to have 6 levels of skill in their primary fields without college
educations, I figure that level 6 must be slightly above norm.



William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link=20

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:16:04 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Tramps and Cargos

>> Free traders simply arrive and ask if anyone wants to go wherever they =
>> are going next - a haphazard method at best.
>
>You've got that backwards. They arrive and ask where people have cargo
>to ship to.
>
depends... especially if they have a mail route. If they have a mail route,
they have a fixed route to follow, and ask for cargos going to one of the
next few jumps.

This is even more the case with Subbies... <mafioso voice> Uncle Impy sez
you gotta do dis route, den you duz dis route!! </mafioso voice>



William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:29:44 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: [off topic]

<off-topic>
>This has been bugging me for a while, and I didn't feel like paying a
>shrink to help me work it out.  You DON'T need that @%$&ing mailto in
>there...  It's automatically a HOTLINK in MS Internet Mail.  Accept the
>inevitable.  Join us or die.  Stop using that mailer with a funky name.
>Anything "lite" always tastes bad.  ;-)

I won't run MS ANYTHING that isn't required for work... and Eudora,
Netscape, and several other programs I have encoutered DO require the
"Mailto:", as they only recognize HTML HRef subset. Thus, I can't hot-link
off of a sig unless it has mailto:, HTTP:, FTP:, Gopher:, or Telnet:
prefixed to the address. OTOH, I also don't have to work hard to keep MS
Mail from affixing RTF or HTML copies of the message as attachments,
either. And Eudora Lite is Free, easy, and (for me and my friends, at
least) intuitive to use.

And if I have learned nothing else from TML, always provide to the lowest
common denominator above "Idiot". Anything less leads to 0.1C+ rocks. ;-)
</off-topic>

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:37:51 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Skills

Hey,

my skills post suggested that we standardize tasks on a
"professional" skill level.  There is an easier way it occurs to
me.  Just note tasks with a Base Skill Level.

So we'd have:

Land Spacecraft from Orbit, Average,  Dex (Int?) (Pilot 1)

Override Computer Lockout, Difficult, Int, (Comp 2)

Back to my medical examples (can you tell I live with a resident
surgeon? :-)

Wound Suture, Average, Dex (Med 1)

Common Surgery, Average, Dex (Med 3)

Specialized Surgery, Difficult, Dex (Med 3)

The listings are:  Task, DiffLevel, Attribute, (Base skill level)

So you'd adjust the Diff level up or down based on the base skill
level.  You can assign any base skill level you want, so any listing
of "professional" skill levels would be to help you estimate the
task difficulty.  Some examples would be useful to help people out
of course.

I would suggest treating JoaT or skill-0 attempts pretty harshly for
some applications, perhaps an additional +DL (DiffLevel Mod) for
stuff that really is a learned task. 

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:31:26 -0600
From: "David Reed" <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Sarcasm: The Lost Art  (was Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?) )

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Cc: cardsharks@aol.com
> Subject: Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)  
> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 1997 8:54 AM

> Anybody interested in folling the task system debate should read this 
> post.  David has some thoughts that are prevalent among some of the 
> thread followees.
> 
> This post will get your thinking on the right track.

[my sarcasm snipped]

> If you took the time to analyze the numbers of the system that you 
> are advocating here, you would not be advocating it.

I wasn't.  I was poking fun at the space opera fans, as well as the
diceheads, simultaneously.

> Becasue we are talking about the bell curves of several dice, the 
> more dice you add, the more steep the curve.

The sheer SIZE of the D number should've been a clue, as should the
description raped shamelessly from Star Wars: a stab at the Trekkie clan.

*sigh*

I must be getting old when everybody takes me waaaay too seriously.

> My suggestion to you is, when the characters want to pull off the 
> impossible, use the Impossible dice code, but add some additional 
> modifiers to the roll.

My point is that if it works MOST of the time, use it.  I'd rather play and
have my players enjoy the game, than be statistically accurate: I'll leave
that for my day job...
__________________________________________________________________________

David Reed  ***  david@techrefuge.com   ***   May Microsoft be with you...

"Man cannot live by bread alone.  He must have peanut butter." -Bill Cosby
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #992
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 993



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Oops (was: The Traveller Creed)
Re: Apples and oranges?
Re: A question?
Re: Skills
Re: micro survey
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: MT-Careers
Re: Traveller Dice
Re: My .02Cr on Tasks
Re: Task System Follies
re: Help
Chauvanism
Re: Skills, Attributes, and so forth
[off topic]
Re: Paint in vacuum + zero-G
Re: Bell Curves and Realism
Re: Roswell Incident
Re: Spectacular Results (new)
Re: On the T4 Task system.
Re: My .02Cr on Tasks
Re: Roswell Incident
Re: Sarcasm: The Lost Art  (was Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?) )
re: Fission Drives
Character-Generator
Re: micro survey
Re: Skills
First T4 session

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:46:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Oops (was: The Traveller Creed)

Sorry about that truncated posting; my system chose that precise moment to
get infected by Virus.  I was able to keep it at bay by installing an NT
4.0 patch, then kill it using a cc:Mail upgrade ("Nails every OS, every
time"), but in the fracas my email went off in various interesting
directions.  Last time I buy a cheap PC from Cymbelline...

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:58:33 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges?

David Reed <david@techrefuge.com> writes:

>[snip]
>We love the new T4 task rules because they're SIMPLE and EASY.  Let's not
>get carried away with ourselves and probability.  (I have to do enough Real
>World(tm) statistics in class.
>[snip]

You made some really good points, David, but I believe you and several
other posters who made similar points have a fundamental misunderstanding;
I am not trying to simulate the "Real World(tm)". I am playing a game. I am
trying to have fun. I am trying to entertain a bunch of my friends with
science fiction role-playing. I have no opinion on the 'nature vs. nurture'
debate. I do have an opinion on people who think the Real World (tm) can be
accurately modeled by 6 integers which range from 1 to 15; they need to get
out more.

My only complaint about the T4 task system is that it is not fun. The
existing task system penalizes players who made one bad roll in character
generation and makes superhumans of characters who happen to have made a
good roll. The existing task system makes characters who are superior in
one (for example) Edu-based tasks superior in ALL Edu-based skills they
have. I cannot design adventures for specific individuals because
low-attribute characters are so weak they can barely defeat a minor threat
and high-attribute characters are practically interchangeable. I cannot
make a character who is (for example) a superb Historian but a mediocre
Archeologist (or computer programmer, for that matter). Attributes so
overwhelm task calculations that skill level become nearly irrelevant.
High-attribute characters become near clones of each other. This is not
enjoyable role-playing. This is boring. I do not love the new T4 task
rules.

True, the T4 system is simpler and easier than the KB system. Rolling 3+ on
a single die to succeed for all tasks would be simpler and easier yet, and
would be even more boring. I am not trying to be condescending to you or
disrespectful of the incredible work Marc has put into this game; it is one
of my small pleasures in life which I am simply trying to make more
enjoyable. All the discussion about olympic figure skaters and talent vs.
training and Real World (tm) is, to me, pointless. Chess does not really
simulate warfare, yet it is a very enjoyable game. The issue, to me, is
that the existing task system detracts from my and my players' enjoyment of
the game.

Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:13 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: A question?

> With this in mind, I'm working on the creation of a General Career.  While
> it is not yet done, I have the basic idea sketched out in my head.  I'm
> going to try to get it down on paper in the near future and if I like it,
> I'll post it here.  In the mean time, I'd appreciate any comments that
> anyone has.

Paul, I'd like a copy of that when you are done.

Maybe those would fit into the Other career from CT?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:12 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Skills

> Dr. Dianna Blow (his sister) is a 2d year surgery resident, with Dex 8
> and Medical 3.  She has a ~3% chance of screwing up, while her
> brother the EMT can do this sucker hung over (-1 DM :-) every time.

ROFLOL!!!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:11 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: micro survey

> >
> >1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?
> >
> Tyr Gamemakers Ltd. published Space Quest, by Paul Hume and george Nyhen in
> 1977 - IIRC, just before or just after Traveller (I forget which...)


Actually, Traveller is the second oldest RPG.  D&D, of course, is 
the oldest.  

Therefore, there were no SF RPGs before Traveller.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:10 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

> Ah! Another heretic leaves the church! ;->
> 
> Welcome to the outer darkness.
> 
> Eris

Damn, Eris.  You make me want to be a heretic again.  You make it 
sound so neat.

And besides, you have that cool name--Eris.

I got stuck with Kenneth.  Distinguished, but definitely old school 
and lacking the character that Eris has.

Kenneth.
The wannabe heretic.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:11 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: MT-Careers

> Is there anybody out there who have designed more Advanced Character
> Generations Careers for MT and would like to share them with me or the
> list?

Check out Joe Walsh's stuff.  It is pretty good.  I downloaded it 
from one of the pages linked to the IG page.  I don't think it was 
Joe's though.  I think it was somebodyelse's who had Joe's stuff 
posted.  

He's done a Pirate, Spy, and Belter--all in the advanced 1 year 
method.

I use them for my games.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:17 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Dice

>    This reminds me of the article in JTAS#2 where MM (or possible LW?) couldn't
> find such dice and related how he made his own with some red paint. 
> Admittedly, this story's ~20 years out of date, so I'm wondering if this
> color-scheme is currently available. 

Yes, the black six siders with red dots are available.  In fact, they 
are really popular at my local game store.

A friend of mine recently bought some for his D&D campaign.  He calls 
them the "death dice".

Kenneth.


 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:14 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: My .02Cr on Tasks

> 3.  I would like to see a return to Charisma an Attribute, and put Social
> Standing as an extended attribute.  The reason is because there are some
> skills that would be limited by a low Social Standing, but shouldn't be.
> Forexample, Han Solo in, IMHO, a great Carouser, however, when we first meet
> him (before joining the rebellion) he has a low social standing as a
> smuggler/rogue. 

I play social standing as relative to the situation.  A person may 
have a high soc in one place only to go to another and have a medium 
or low soc.

And it's relative to peers also.  Han Solo actually had, in my view, 
a high soc in the eyes of the other smugglers.  He was Jabba's numero 
uno smuggling pilot before the movie started (and this is finally 
stated in the new digital scene in the recent released version of the 
movie).

Of course, to the common citizenship, Han's soc is really low.

I like what MT had to say about soc in the MT PM--that soc is 
variable and will vary over a person's life.  I took this a step 
further and read this to be that soc could vary depending on the 
situation.

Ya see, we are all Vargrs at heart!

And it is just my take on the situation.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:15 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Task System Follies

> This comes dangerously close to being patronizing. That and a certain amount
> of pushiness is what is really beginning to annoy me about this discussion...

Look, Allen, it wasn't my intent to be patronizing to you.  I was 
trying to keep the subject cheerful.

I guess you are a little too sensitive to my quips, and that's too 
bad because I didn't mean anything by it.  Just being playful.

And, you've been known to be pretty pushy and hot headed about 
certain issues yourself.

Sorry you took it that way.  

> Then I have a suggestion. DOUBLE the number of skill levels characters get
> and double the number of dice used at each difficulty level. 

This would not work because doubling the amount of dice thrown would 
would make the bell curve way too steep.  If you ran the percentages 
on this system, trust me, you would not like them.

 I am quite sure that the powers that be
> won't go for that, and someone will invariably yell "but then an average
> task isn't 2D anymore and that's not Traveller..." but it would work.

Actually, because of what I've just stated, it would not work.  You 
would need huge target numbers and the scale would drop off too fast 
between difficutly categories.

These bell curves and six siders are tricky things.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:09:41 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: re: Help

>1) Does anyone dispute that the average characteristic for a
>human is 7?  Marc Miller or anybody else on the TML?

Only for the average 18 YO Human... average tends to be close to 8 for
22-33 yo characters under CT/MT/T4 due to attribute raises in CGen.

>2)  Are T4 skill levels valued the same as CT skill levels eventhough
>a character may have more skills?

Definitely not. T4 has only about 50% more skills on the total skill list,
and 2.5 times as many skills per term on average.

>3)  Do you dispute that level 1 skills are beginner level
>skills?  If so, what is a beginner level, in T4 terms, to you?

Level ones are employable. IE, you can get a job based upon a level 1 under
all editions. So level 0 is the rank beginner.

>4) Do you agree that level 3 skills are professional level skills?
>If not, what level, in T4 terms, would you assign a professional
>level skill (like when a doctor graduates from med school, goes
>through his residency, and begins his practice)?

I feel that Proffessional under t4 should be level 4 due to the increased
number of skills in relation to skills available

>5) What would you say the average skill level is for a character?

Depends. Primary field In My Experience, tends to be 4-8 under t4, rather
than the 3-4 under CT, and 4-5 under MT.

Other skills tend to run the 1-3 range under t4, rather than the 0-2 range
under CT/MT

>6) At what level do you think T4 skills should max out at?  Not to
>impose a level limit, I'm asking what level do you think will be
>virtually unheard of for a character's skill?
13. This is just over 1.5x the max under MT. (Actually, MT had no max on a
single skill, but max DM was +8).


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:57:33 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Chauvanism

>I contend that this all boils down to philosophy, and it is now apparent
>that Marc's philosophy is that the task system in this respect remain
>unaltered. And since Marc's name is on the game, his version of reality is
>the one you're going to get. I choose to accept that version of reality, and
>get on with playing Traveller.
>
Allen:

That very approach (It's the DESIGNER's Game) is the very reason that shops
Like GW and Palladium are driving people OUT OF THE MARKET. They both
demand that all ideas be either published through a house organ of the
parent company, or not published at all. If T4 is the only legitimate
"Traveller", then I do not, will not, and only for a short while have:
played "legitiamte Traveller".

Traveller has a history of being open to player ideas, Allen, and when that
ceases, it had better have a hard-core following like GW and Palladium, or
it will fail as fast as Nova Force or Road Rebels.

In my 14 years of playing Traveller, I remember most clearly that EVERY
EDITION EXCEPT T4 has had a "comment and suggestion" card. I got a response
from Loren W to one item on one (complained about missing parts) and got
the missing rulebook. I know it had to be the Card, and not the letter, as
the letter went into the mailbox the same trip to the PO as I pulled the
missing rulebook out of the mailbox. T4 doesn't need the reply cards, as
they accept E-mail.

Marc:

 Thank you yet again for the chance to have some influence in the shaping
of traveller. Thank you for not going chauvanistic like K. Simbieda. Thank
you for the Imperium, in it's 1100 years of glory.

Now, how about TWO task systems in the book: one 2300/DGP/mega-esque, and
one multi-dice (KB1.1 reccomended there). Make Traveller the most flexible
base book on the market.

Kenneth:
	As for Angular vs bell on 2d__, I checked my notes and my stats
text. My instructor was quite clear, 2d__ cannot produce a "True Bell
CUrve"[from my class notes, and his handout] as it is composed of two
straight lines. Book makes no distinctions. Different mathematical
traditions, different definitions.


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:16 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Skills, Attributes, and so forth

.  As the system currently stands, not
> just abusive mini-maxers, but anybody would be remiss not to increase their
> various stats (especially  DEX,INT, or EDU) up as high as possible and then
> load up with a bunch of level-1 skills, 'cause such characters will be much
> more effective in the game than their "moderate stats and a few pretty good
> skills" counterparts (ie- traditional Traveller PCs).

This is so true and a real problem with the attribute means all 
method.

The people who want attributes want them to be all powerful, like 
Lester Smith's thinking.

We twice skill, half attribute people want a balance between the two.

People think that because to are doubling the skill and halving the 
attribute, you end up with much more skill than attribute.

But, this is not true because of the different scales each is on.  
Stats run from 2 to 15.  Skills run from 1 to about 9.

The average stat is 7.  The average skill is 2.

Under KBv1.1, stat is reduced to 4 and skill is doubled to 4.

You see, they are now providing the same benefit to success--not one 
over the other.

>      In order to maintain some sense of balance and proportion here, increasing
> attributes MUST be made more costly than increasing skills, simply because the
> effects are so much more far-reaching. 

This is an interesting idea.  Of course, it is not necessary to redo 
all of the generation careers, which are now close to what they were 
in CT, to something different to account for this.  Instead, you 
could just use KBv1.1.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:47:50 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: [off topic]

<off-topic>
>This has been bugging me for a while, and I didn't feel like paying a
>shrink to help me work it out.  You DON'T need that @%$&ing mailto in
>there...  It's automatically a HOTLINK in MS Internet Mail.  Accept the
>inevitable.  Join us or die.  Stop using that mailer with a funky name.
>Anything "lite" always tastes bad.  ;-)

Eudora adheres to internet standards while MS does not and that is why the
majority (yes check the facts) of internetters use Eudora be it pro or
lite. When you grow up you'll probably also use the proper tools.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:44:05 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Paint in vacuum + zero-G

>It's pretty cold in a vacuum not
>exposed to sunlight.  What sorts of chemicals would stay liquid in such an
>environment - or at least gooey/sticky enough to be a hazard? Tx! - Bill

There's no temperature in vacuum. The temp on the paint droplets will be
the same as the walls of the ship after a while but the droplets will start
evaporating, taking away heat to freeze the remainder as there will be no
liquid phase in vacuum.
I'm worried (not really ;) about the description of a cloud, ball of
droplets et c. In vacuum paintbombs behave like frag grenades and spray
cans as sawed off shotguns which means that the droplets/ice particles will
move in a straight line until they hit something. They will not hang around
as a cloud unless dispersed really slowly.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:53:20 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Bell Curves and Realism

>Buddy, I don't know where you learned math, but that's a bell curve.
>It may look triangular because of your histogram, but it is a bell
>curve.
>
>This curve just doesn't curve as much as, say, a 6D bell curve would.

WRONG

You'll have to throw an infinite number of dice to get a bell curve.
Your misconception is that you think anything that isn't linear has to be a
bell curve.

But for gaming purposes I'd say that even 2D6 has enough bell-curvedness to
be called a bell curve. Enough nit picking.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:04:03 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

>Last year, ID4 was released on 3 July 1996.
>
>This was _not_ a coincindence.

It _was_ a coincidence, July 3 was the day before July 4 when all americans
frolic and celebrate their "great" nation as was portrayed in the film.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:01:46 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Spectacular Results (new)

>Skills shouldn't count for more than attributes, but they should
>count at least the same as attributes.
>
>Kenneth.

Skills should count for everything and describe fully the characters
ability in that area. Characteristics govern the ability to learn skills.
Skill levels should't be numbers but rather a text description of the level
of mastery in the skill that will help the players to flesh out their view
of the character.
"He's a GOOD pilot but TERRIBLE shooter so we'll leave him out of the boarding"

This is MY view and MY view is always right as I'm the gamemaster!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:44:10 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: On the T4 Task system.

>I'm not sure what to do about it.  You might roll bigger dice
>instead of more dice.  You might also reduce all targer numbers
>in some way.

Use a fixed number of dice (2D6). Variable number of dice also screws up
the exceptional success/failure rules.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:37:50 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: My .02Cr on Tasks

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> And it's relative to peers also.  Han Solo actually had, in my view,
> a high soc in the eyes of the other smugglers.  He was Jabba's numero
> uno smuggling pilot before the movie started (and this is finally
> stated in the new digital scene in the recent released version of the
> movie).
> 

IMHO it would be better to have an additional characteristic here,
because as I understand it, pirates and smugglers love people with low
soc.
Charisma is a good suggestion for this.

Any other suggestions?

Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:44:47 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

Anders Backman wrote:
> 
> >Last year, ID4 was released on 3 July 1996.
> >
> >This was _not_ a coincindence.
> 
> It _was_ a coincidence, July 3 was the day before July 4 when all americans
> frolic and celebrate their "great" nation as was portrayed in the film.
> 

Yea, yea. And again THEY have to save everybody. And of course even
their president climbs into the jet and joins the dogfight. Yea, yea ..

I hate that!

Most american "hollywood-type" films are pure propaganda. When I see
these films I feel remembered of old clips of the "Deutsche
Wochenschau". I mean: how naive can one be, to like or even believe
that, nowadays?

Just my ...[you know what].

Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:10:06 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Sarcasm: The Lost Art  (was Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?) )

>My point is that if it works MOST of the time, use it.  I'd rather play and
>have my players enjoy the game, than be statistically accurate: I'll leave
>that for my day job...

My day job is designing computer games so I leave being statistically
accurate to my RPG leisure time.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:05:00 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: re: Fission Drives

>Conservatively, you might (per unit thrust) increase fuel consumption by a
>factor of 100 relative to HEPlaR, power consumption by a factor of 10-100,
>and mass of the drive by a factor of 10. What you should end up with
>(for a Heinleinesque drive) is something that can give you a few Gs
>but with only enough fuel for tens of minutes of acceleration (a G-hour or
>two total delta-V); Heinlein's ships in (say) "The Rolling Stones" didn't
>have much delta-V at all.

Well Heinleinian ships had a fission core through which hydrogen was pumped
a la NERVA but a little higher TL you can use a gas core fission drive
where you make your fission core not only to meltdown but to vaporize as
Chernobyl partially did. This core is controlled and the gas is let out the
back with dramatic increase in Isp and no power requirement. I read about
it in some aerospace journal some years ago.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:00:46 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Character-Generator

Hi folks!

Does anybody know a page, where a GM like me (=no time for anything) can
find a program for Character-Generation? Maybe even online (i.e. Java)?

TIA

Buddy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:13:21 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: micro survey

>Actually, Traveller is the second oldest RPG.  D&D, of course, is
>the oldest.
>
>Therefore, there were no SF RPGs before Traveller.
>
>Kenneth.

Traveller may well be the fisrt SF rpg but D&D was NOT the fisrt fantasy rpg=
.
That one goes to the Blackmoor, Eldritch wizardry whatever=8A books by TSR
that came before D&D upon which D&D was based. (I have the books)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:22:41 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Skills

>Hmmm.  I agree with the comment that we need to clarify that if a
>given is Average, then _who_ is it average for?  I would say that we
>assume that tasks are rated for _professionals_.

Verbal compatability rule: "All named gametokens should
correspond to real world tokens of the same name"
Task level names should mean the same as their real world equivalents when
performed by the normal practitioner ie _professional_

We need to define what skill levels really mean but the overimportance on
characteristics makes this impossible (meaning nearly not doable unless you
have high characteristics ;)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:43:09 +1100 (EST)
From: Michael Barry <mbarry@pcug.org.au>
Subject: First T4 session

While I was off TML, Leanne & James Dempsey and friend Mark, helped playtested
 a scenario I've been working on for the last few months. 
Details of playtesting aside, some interesting things happened during the 
session: 
1. We all (players and ref) agreed after about 5 minutes that 'difficult' 
tasks were nothing of the sort, and switched from the ATTRIB+SKILL 
standard T4 system to a 0.5xATTRIB+2xSKILL house rule, which worked just 
fine. 
2. The players learned something new about Emperor Cleon's relationship 
with his pet cat, Squidgie. 
"Our love is too great for any man, or 
cat, to keep secret..."
3. James Dempsey rolled two critical failures in a row, while trying to 
remove bugging devices from a heavily bugged room: 
Me: "Roll 2 dice, I roll another hidden for an uncertain task."
James D: "OK. Ohhhh, %%&&*$"
Me: "Haw haw haw haw! Um - you reckon that you've done an absolutely 
*brilliant* job in removing those bugs...you tell the others what a top 
job you just did...in fact, you're considering 
taking out a patent on the fantastic new method you just invented" 
James D: "Ohhhh, nooooo...."
<others hold their heads, knowing evil dictator is listening in on their 
characters' conversation, but that the characters can't know that...>

**************************************************************************
Michael Barry
mbarry@pcug.org.au               <--- checked daily
m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au  <--- maybe once a week? Don't chance it...

"There was something feminine, and therefore diabolical, about him"
Umberto Eco, _The Name Of The Rose_
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #993
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 994



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Tramps and cargoes
Charisma Looks Good
Jumps fixed at 1 Week - It's Official!
Re: Roswell Incident
THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO TASK FIXES
Re: My .02Cr on Tasks
Re: Attributes and Skills/Cake and Frosting!
Re: THUDDD Runners-up & Post-Mortem
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #993
Re: On the T4 Task system.
Re: THUDDD Voting Results
Re: THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO TASK FIXES
re: Help
re: Fission Drives
Re: Bell Curves and Realism
Re: micro survey
Re: A modest proposal (task system)
Re: Apples and oranges?
[TAGS] - Traveller Automated Gaming System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:43:48 -0800
From: "Dr. Nik Whitehead" <nwhitehe@mic.dundee.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Tramps and cargoes

>> Free traders simply arrive and ask if anyone wants to go wherever 
>> they are going next - a haphazard method at best. You've got that 
>> backwards. They arrive and ask where people have cargo to ship to.

> depends... especially if they have a mail route. If they have a 
> mail route, they have a fixed route to follow, and ask for cargos 
> going to one of the next few jumps.

If they're taking mail they effectively become 'liners' because they 
have to be in a certain place at a certain time (historically
speaking).

Similarly 'tramp' does not apply to just to the little independents.
Any vessel which picks up a cargo in one port, takes it to another
port where it picks up a second cargo etc works according on the
tramp principle. I think the distinction you're looking for is whether
or not the cargo is organised one they reach their destination.

Many current shipping corporations work on this model - an oil tanker
may pick up a cargo in the Persian Gulf, transport it to the US where
it will pick up a second cargo for South Africa and so on. The companies
have the cargoes arranged in advance, but the ship isn't generally 
just running between two specific ports.

Nik

Dr. Nik Whitehead		
nwhitehe@mic.dundee.ac.uk	There is always a way
Applied Computing		but the easy way is normally mined
University of Dundee

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:27:04 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Charisma Looks Good

Paul Walker <tiger@goldinc.com> said:

>3.  I would like to see a return to Charisma an Attribute, and put Social
>Standing as an extended attribute.
<good example about Han Solo snipped here>

I've always used Charisma (although to avoid confusion, Vargr "Charisma" was
changed to "Social Standing" since it reflected society's view of the Vargr;
and a separate 'physical attractiveness' Charisma was given instead).

Most skills where SS could be used, players can use CH so long as I can see
a justification. They *could* get away with a glittering disarming smile
when they pick up the wrong knife and fork at a social gathering (high CH,
low SS) but couldn't get away with running up to kiss the local monarch...
(some Social rules shouldn't be broken, even if you have a wonderful CH or
are from down-under).

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:20:56 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Jumps fixed at 1 Week - It's Official!

"Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com> talks about Glenn's theory about
why all Jumps last one week...

>Say, Glenn, as you can tell, I get excited when I see ideas that I 
>think are incredible...

Incredible?

>Have you sent this to Marc or IG.  It is something that they should 
>read as well.
>...
>You should send your idea off to Marc and IG.  Even if they don't 
>print it somewhere, they should be exposed to it.

You mean this explanation is supposed to be new? Tries jumping up and down
in enthusiasm. Nope, can't get worked up about something I've assumed for
20-odd years (hull grids not this silly coil things - that's me). I'm sure
Marc has always known why Jumps last a week... he did invent the concept
after all!

:-)

It's all part of the "maintainance of velocity vector", "can't see or
manoeuvre in Jump space", "sealed bubble", "cross fingers before Jumping
because you can't change things once you're in there" sort of mentality that
I always associated with Jump... then there's my "Variable Density Jump
Dimension" theory which (through analogy) tries to explain why a Jump is one
week long without needing to worry about things cooling down... I think that
was sent with my thrusters document to IG back when they were first
developing T4.

Maybe it's just my sad English sarcastic/ironic/depressive mentality that I
can't quite see what the excitement's about? =8-)

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:41:57 GMT
From: Nicolas LEJEUNE <nlejeune@suresnes.marben.fr>
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

>
>Yea, yea. And again THEY have to save everybody. And of course even
>their president climbs into the jet and joins the dogfight. Yea, yea ..
>
>I hate that!
>
>Most american "hollywood-type" films are pure propaganda. When I see
>these films I feel remembered of old clips of the "Deutsche
>Wochenschau". I mean: how naive can one be, to like or even believe
>that, nowadays?

Agreed, thoses movies are build around enornous stereotypes.
I think "Mars Attack" will be a good parody of ID4

- -----------
Nicolas LEJEUNE
   Engineer, Paris, France
   Sligos Marben.
   Traveller (TNE), and WhiteWolf RPG
   nlejeune@suresnes.marben.fr

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:20:53 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO TASK FIXES

"Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

>Oh, and fellow TMLers, please post your answers to my questions on 
>the TML.  In this case, don't send them to me directly.

A very humble request...

============
PLEASE DON'T.
============

Kenneth, please choose one other person as an 'arbitor' (perhaps Allen
Shock?) and get people to copy the two of you with every idea they've ever
had on tasks.

Then in a year's time you (and the arbitor) can come back to the TML with
each of your amalgamations of peoples' ideas. People can then vote (directly
back to you) which of the systems they prefer.

That way we can avoid this constant round-in-circles "I thought of it
first", "Skills are more important than Stats" arguments.

It's quite clear that a number of people are still using other systems like
MT and sometimes TNE. I've been demonstrating the new Traveller to loads of
newbies and every one of them has agreed that the system's simplicity is
great. I also explain to them how they can add extra dice to the
difficulties or ignore half-dice if they want to, and they think that
flexibility is great too.

Marc has very clear views on how he wants T4 to go, and although I know he's
open to influence, I think one should be careful about assuming that because
a limited number of people (say 5 or 10) on the TML speak up for a given
system, that it is the best. Realistically the entire TML is only 400-500
people whereas 30,000 plus rule books have been sold, thus we are but a
*VERY* small minority who just happen to have a very easy way of vocalising
our thoughts direct to Marc Miller.

My other thought, though I hate to admit it, is that putting out a 'fixed'
task system for T4 so soon after its release is rather like admitting failure.

What I *did* strongly advocate in the CORE Proposal to IG was that one of
the books should be a Player's book which - in addition to a wedge-load of
other stuff - included *several* optional task systems which one could use
instead of the original one, *if* the players and referee wished to do so.
This would mean the T4 system wasn't 'invalidated' officially, but that
players could use other systems if they wanted to do so (in the same way
that there are many 'add on'/'upgrade' rules for AD&D ed2, etc.).

So, Kenneth, if you wanted to act as amalgamator of *all* task rules systems
then perhaps - if the TML yells at Marc loud enough - they might see the
light of day in an official IG publication?

Andy :-)
Coordinating BITS (British Isles Traveller Support) (when I have a spare second)
Coordinating CORE Traveller Development Group (well, trying to, anyway!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:43:24 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: My .02Cr on Tasks

At 22:20 25/02/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Well, I don't have the time to get involved with the Task System discussion
>that is currently going on, but I do have a few comments that I'd like to
>throw in.
>
>1.  Great idea to ditch the D3's.  The are not so much of a problem as they
>are a hassle.  Whole numbers fit better into my feeble mind. :)
>
>2.  I have two skills that I would like to see added.  If you feel these
>skills are already covered in others, I'd sure like you to tell me where,
>cause I couldn't find em. :)
>
>     Farming -  The science of raising crops/livestock.
>     Steward -  The ability to handle Higher society passengers on Starships.

The Steward ability should also include cooking. Just who does the cooking
on Starships? Or if the food pre made pre done, AKA airline food...... Can
you imagine a couple of weeks of this? yech!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:33:17 +1100
From: Peter Hurley <fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: Attributes and Skills/Cake and Frosting!

At 21:39 25/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> Lower is better *is* a better way to go.  I want that to stay in whatever
>> system is settled on.
>
>Although I agree with your post, I wanted to make this, ahem, 
>emotional comment.
>
>I really don't have an opinion of wether we roll higher or lower, but 
>I'll tell you that I was a bit disappointed when I first realized 
>that we had to roll lower to achieve success in T4.
>
>There's just an emotional high that I miss from MT and CT from 
>rolling boxcars.
>
>Ahhh!  Damn, that feels good.  Boxcars!
>
>Remember when you first rolled a natural 20 in D&D and your DM told 
>you that you just made a perfect hit--double damage?
>
>To quote Gordon Gekko (Wallstreet),  "It was better than sex."
>


As a player of LOTS of games where rolling low is good (any using
percentage, FGU games etc) I prefer rolling low. Nothing like rolling a 1
in Bushido or rolling 01 in CoC. 
In regards to the 20 in DnD, I don't actually recall there being such a
rule. I know lots of people (including us) who  had it as a house rule thru.

PeteH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:23:34 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Idiot/Savant <idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: THUDDD Runners-up & Post-Mortem

Re: THUDDD Runners-up!

My comments on Chris Cox's <chriscox@ix.netcom.com> starliner:
> A small passanger-liner aimed at BudgetLines and similar operations,
>this design has the Passanger Bug bigtime. Fourty mid-passages may
>look good on paper, but a quick reality check shows that you're lucky
>to get _half_ that many on a hi-pop world. economicly unfeasable.

Chris's response:
> The design is economically unfeasible only if the Passenger Table
> is considered to be the only way to get passengers.  You don't
> seriously believe this do you?  

 No, I don't believe that - obviously you can get more passangers (on a
high-pop world at least) by running a scheduled service and investing in
things like advertising and booking offices. However, this isn't the sort
of thing done by tramp trading ships working the fringes - which is the
sort of ship (and => economic model) the competition was based around.

 Your design is great for shipping lines interested in offering a low-end,
budget alternitive to Tukera (the Traveller equivalent of going by bus?),
but it makes a bad far trader. Sorry.

> The Passenger Table wasn't mentioned as a design consideration.  I
> assumed that the considerations for economic feasibility were what
> was mention in the listing of economic information.

 Neither was the neccessity of a maneuver drive (or rather, the lack of
"far-trader tenders"), but you managed to work that one out OK (Hmmmmm...
a cargo line relying on tenders - an interesting idea, neh?). 

 Demand for staterooms and cargo-space should be the _first_ thing you
look at when designing a commercial ship.

> BTW what is BudgetLines?  It sounds like a starliner company that
> I'm not familiar with.

 Just a name that sprang to mind - it may or may not bear a resemblence to
the company that advertises itself with slogans such as "so economical,
you'll think you're part of the crew!".


Re: THUDDD Post-Mortem

Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu> wrote:

>On to voter comments:
>> Too expensive by far, and I can't see how it got that way - did this
>> one get its ISDP component discount?

> Yes.  The only other 300-ton ship in the competition, the New
> Victoria "T-300", cost just under MCr 70 and was designed with QSDS
> 1.4 not 1.5, so it came out a lot cheaper.

 I know - that was my entry :). I redesigned it this evening using
QSDS1.5, and the price came out as MCr 83.8 - that *14 bug in thruster
plate costs sure made a difference. 

[My comments again]
>> Not only does it suffer from the Passanger Bug, it also seems that
>> Ketaru Aerospace needs to check up on the proper use of dismantalable
>> tanks. This ship seems fundamentally broken.

> Nope.  This is confusing collapsible bladders (storable at 5%) and
> folding dismountable tankage (storable at 25%).  From QSDS 1.5: [...]

 Urk. When did _that_ piece of canon change? [IIRC previous versions of
Traveller have always said that demountables can't be used to increase
single-jump range - instead, they allow multiple jumps]

- --
Idiot/Savant			idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz
Betray your friends; Crush your enemies; 
Control the world; Drink some coffee

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:23:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mark James Wilkin <aa4mwi@zen.sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #993

> 
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:44:47 -0800
> From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
> Subject: Re: Roswell Incident
> 
> Anders Backman wrote:
> > 
> > >Last year, ID4 was released on 3 July 1996.
> > >
> > >This was _not_ a coincindence.
> > 
> > It _was_ a coincidence, July 3 was the day before July 4 when all americans
> > frolic and celebrate their "great" nation as was portrayed in the film.
> > 
> 
> Yea, yea. And again THEY have to save everybody. And of course even
> their president climbs into the jet and joins the dogfight. Yea, yea ..
> 
> I hate that!
I much prefer Mars Attacks when we actually get to see other country's 
national monuments get pasted. Oh and don't talk to me about the 
portrayal of RAF pilots in the film, I laughed so hard milk came out of 
my nose.
Hmmmm wonder what kind of tech level the martians had, wonder how some 
PC's would react to discovering that new alien species :-).

*** "*Thwap* My life needs a rewind/erase button"          	***
***                                          Calvin and Hobbes  ***
*** Mark James Wilkin                                           ***
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:16:26 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: On the T4 Task system.

> Use a fixed number of dice (2D6). Variable number of dice also screws up
> the exceptional success/failure rules.

I think that variable dice actually help the SS/SF rules in T4.

It is a highly creative idea, and it makes sense.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:14:34 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: THUDDD Voting Results

Paul Owensby wrote:

>
>Just occurred to me...Out of curiosity, since I've not seen the number
>anywhere,
>how many people voted in the THUDDD competition? Was it primarily voting by
>people who entered ships, or by non-entrees? And what percentage of the list
>members bothered to vote? (Just trying to get a feel for how many folks take
>their shipbuilding seriously<g>)....

        I recieved 7 ballots; however, some designs, due to late
submissions, were not voted on by all voters.  Given the statistically low
number of voters and the wide range of variation, this affected things
somewhat.  Three non-entrees voted, IIRC.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:16:26 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO TASK FIXES

> So, Kenneth, if you wanted to act as amalgamator of *all* task rules systems
> then perhaps - if the TML yells at Marc loud enough - they might see the
> light of day in an official IG publication?

What the heck are you talking about?

I wasn't looking for task system ideas, and you are way off 
base on what I was asking.  I posted 6 questions for TMLers to 
answer.

The point was to get a consensus, or at least as close to a 
consensus, on some basic definitions.

I didn't want to do a lot of work based on those definitions only to 
find out later that many people disagreed with those assumptions.

That's all.

Why don't you read the post next time before you hit the key board?

Sheesh.  It's a good thing that I have a thick skin.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:16:24 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: re: Help

> >1) Does anyone dispute that the average characteristic for a
> >human is 7?  Marc Miller or anybody else on the TML?
> 
> Only for the average 18 YO Human... average tends to be close to 8 for
> 22-33 yo characters under CT/MT/T4 due to attribute raises in CGen.

You say this eventhough the printed standard in CT/MT was 7?

> >2)  Are T4 skill levels valued the same as CT skill levels eventhough
> >a character may have more skills?
> 
> Definitely not. T4 has only about 50% more skills on the total skill list,
> and 2.5 times as many skills per term on average.

You are comparing this to MT, right?  On the skill list, are you 
counting all those individual weapon skills that are neatly bundled 
into a few skills in T4?

Also, you haven't quite answered my question.  I'm not asking if T4 
has a better skill list.  I'm asking if each individual skill level 
is valued the same as a CT or MT skill.

Take Medical, for example.  Does Medical-3 in T4 equal the same 
amount of skill prowess as Medical-3 in MT or CT?

> >3)  Do you dispute that level 1 skills are beginner level
> >skills?  If so, what is a beginner level, in T4 terms, to you?
> 
> Level ones are employable. IE, you can get a job based upon a level 1 under
> all editions. So level 0 is the rank beginner.

Fair enough.


Thanks for your comments, William.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:14:37 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: re: Fission Drives

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

[snip]

HEPlaR is astonishingly efficient - exhaust velocity much higher than any
imaginable fission drive, and it also fuses some of the hydrogen for energy
(and still bends conservation of energy.)

[snip]

        Hmm... how does it violate conservation of energy?  Please
enlighten me...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:16:23 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Curves and Realism

> You'll have to throw an infinite number of dice to get a bell curve.
> Your misconception is that you think anything that isn't linear has to be a
> bell curve.

I know what the heck a bell curve is, and you have a misconception in 
your nit pickiness.

And your mother wears combat boots.:)

So, there. <g>

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:16:25 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: micro survey

> Traveller may well be the fisrt SF rpg but D&D was NOT the fisrt fantasy rpg.
> That one goes to the Blackmoor, Eldritch wizardry whateverS books by TSR
> that came before D&D upon which D&D was based. (I have the books)

Those books are considered the very early edition of D&D.  D&D was 
originally three little books, the ones you have, just like 
Traveller.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:14:41 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (task system)

Mused wrote:

>
>WWGS?!?
>
>This is the same system that produced a result of no damage from an empty
>the mag burst
>from an Uzi

        Hey... if the target was undead, that doesn't seem so wierd, now
does it :)?

        You'll note that I was not advocating the wholesale adoption, just
taking a look at how it works.  One of the areas in which I find
StoryTeller somewhat deficient is in its combat system...  especially soak
rolls, which are great for reducing the effects of damage upon supernatural
beasties, but IMHO are abused on human characters.  So what I did when
running it was eliminate soaking against gunfire unless you're undead,
increase the difficulty on soak rolls against knives to 8 (up from 6), and
IIRC decreased the difficulty on firearm damage rolls to 5.

        Makes a world of difference...  Doing it again, I would have soak
rolls on a descending order of difficulty depending on impact force; guns
impossible, 9 for attacks with axes, big swords etc, 8 for other bladed
weapons and heavy blunt objects, and 7 for blunt objects that aren't
primarily intended to kill; brawling attacks are soaked at 6.  This IMHO
aside from being way off-topic would also fix the soaking system quite
nicely...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:16:22 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges?

> I am not trying to simulate the "Real World(tm)". I am playing a game. I am
> trying to have fun. I am trying to entertain a bunch of my friends with
> science fiction role-playing. I have no opinion on the 'nature vs. nurture'
> debate. I do have an opinion on people who think the Real World (tm) can be
> accurately modeled by 6 integers which range from 1 to 15; they need to get
> out more.

If Marc Miller and other game designers thought this way, you'd have 
a lackluster game that suffers from lack of thought--talk about game 
mechanics problems.

"Hey, Billy Bob.  The task difficulty is so low that everybody 
succeeds even if they are not skilled.  What do you want to do about 
it?"

"Ah, heck, Rufus, I dunno.  Make'em throw more dice for the 
difficulty."

"How many more dice?"

"Whatever you want.  I few I guess."

It is because people put this type of thought into the game that you 
are able to sit back and enjoy it as much as you do.

If something was broken, I bet that you would sure gripe about it.  
The mechanics thinkers try to ensure that you won't have this 
problem.  

. The
> existing task system penalizes players who made one bad roll in character
> generation and makes superhumans of characters who happen to have made a
> good roll. The existing task system makes characters who are superior in
> one (for example) Edu-based tasks superior in ALL Edu-based skills they
> have.

more snippage

 Attributes so
> overwhelm task calculations that skill level become nearly irrelevant.
> High-attribute characters become near clones of each other. 

snip again

> True, the T4 system is simpler and easier than the KB system. Rolling 3+ on
> a single die to succeed for all tasks would be simpler and easier yet, and
> would be even more boring. 

Now I agree with you here.  Good points all.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:43:01 -0500 (EST)
From: CMcknight@aol.com
Subject: [TAGS] - Traveller Automated Gaming System

I am working on a design for a free integrated system to allow people
to play Traveller across the internet/intranet.  I'm including a copy of=20
the specification document and would appreciate input on whether I'm=20
overlooking any particular aspect.  I'll also gladly accept any volunteer=
s=20
who want to work on the project as well.

Thanks.

Chuck McKnight
cmcknight@aol.com
charles_mcknight@sdt.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Cut Here =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Traveller Automated Gaming System Project


Overview
- --------
The goal of the Traveller Automated Gaming System (TAGS) is to=20
provide a facility for players and referees to a =93chat room=94 facility=
=20
similar with various services appropriate for playing Traveller (tm)=20
remotely.  The referee shall have access to services that ease the=20
routine tasks associated with running a gaming session, and the=20
players shall have access to services (such as a star chart viewer,=20
jump calculator, etc.) to enable them to access the information the=20
referee chooses to make available without the referee having to type=20
all of the information in for the players.  The referee may or may not=20
be the =93server=94, but should the =93server=94 should have persistent=20
storage for the various informational files associated with the=20
systems.  Due to the wide variance of systems being used, the=20
clients shall be implemented in Java for portability, with the server=20
implementation being left to the implementor although a language=20
like C or C++ is preferred for performance and portability.


Traveller Gaming Room (TGR)
- ---------------------------
The Traveller Gaming Room provides a graphical interface for both=20
the players and the referee.  The room shall have at minimum a=20
window for referee interaction, a window for player interaction, a=20
window for computer activity (database searching, star charts, etc.),=20
and a window for private communications between the referee and=20
one or more players.

Traveller Referee Client (TRC)
- ------------------------------
The Traveller Referee Client (TRC) shall provide the referee with the=20
following services:

=B7 Animal Encounter Generator
=B7 Animal Generator
=B7 Animal Registry
=B7 Central Supply Catalog
=B7 Character Generator
=B7 Character Registry
=B7 Game History Journal
=B7 Imperial News Service
=B7 Library Data Service
=B7 Patron Encounter Generator
=B7 Rumor Generator
=B7 Ship Encounter Generator
=B7 Ships Registry
=B7 Star Chart Viewer
=B7 Starship Generator
=B7 Task Calculator
=B7 Trade Generator
=B7 Word Generators
=B7 World Generator
 Traveller Player Client (TPC)

The Traveller Player Client (TPC) shall provide the players with=20
the following services:

=B7 Central Supply Catalog
=B7 Character Generator
=B7 Game History Journal
=B7 Imperial News Service
=B7 Jump Calculator
=B7 Library Data Service
=B7 Ships Registry
=B7 Star Chart Viewer


Description of Services

Animal Encounter Generator=09
    The Animal Encounter Generator generates a random animal=20
    encounter based upon the animal registry for the world or a=20
    general animal encounter if no animal register is available for=20
    the world.
=09
Animal Generator
    The Animal Generator generates the description of an animal. =20
    Animals are normally resident to a specific world although=20
    importation may cause them to appear elsewhere.
=09
Animal Registry
    The Animal Registry contains the description of animals=20
    associated with a particular world.
=09
Central Supply Catalog
    The Central Supply Catalog supplies a description of vehicles,=20
    equipment, and other necessities.  It also allows the players to
    purchase items (the referee may impose a mark up that is=20
    reflected in the displayed price of an item).
=09
Character Generator
    The Character Generator allows the players to create characters=20
    and the referee to create non-player characters.
=09
Character Registry
    The Character Registry holds all character information (including=20
    player owner).  The players and referee have control over what=20
    information is visible to other players, although the referee can=20
    see all information at all times.
=09
Game History Journal
    The Game History Journal contains the game notes the referee and=20
    players enter.  The referee and each character may have his/her/its=20
    own journal.
=09
Imperial News Service
    The Imperial New Service provides news of events in other systems. =20
    A useful tool for the referee to disseminate rumours and other=20
    information.
=09
Jump Calculator
    The Jump Calculator calculates the shortest route between points=20
    based upon the Jump potential of the ship.  This may also be used=20
    when the players are attempting to book passage to determine how=20
    long it will take to get from one point to the next.
=20
Library Data Service
    The Library Data Service provides access to the Imperial Library and=20
    the information contained within.
=09
Patron Encounter Generator=09
    The Patron Encounter Generator creates random patron encounters.
=09
Rumor Generator=09
    The Rumour Generator provides rumour seeds.
=09
Ship Encounter Generator=09
    The Ship Encounter Generator creates random ship encounters.
=09
Ships Registry=09
    The Ships Registry contains information about all known ships.
    This information includes items like the USP and last know=20
    whereabouts.
=09
Star Chart Viewer
    The Star Chart Viewer provides drill down technology to allow the=20
    user to begin at the galactic level of Known Space down to the=20
    stellar system level (main star(s) and planetary orbits).  Future=20
    additions may allow drill down to a planetary (planet and satellites)=
,=20
    continental, area, and city street level.
=09
Starship Generator=09
    The Starship Generator provides facilities for creating new starships=
=20
    and other vehicles.
=09
Task Calculator=09
    The Task Calculator provides facilities for calculating task difficul=
ty.
=09
Trade Generator=09
    The Trade Generator creates trade cargos.
=09
Word Generators=09
    The Word Generators create words based upon a given language=20
    (Aslan, Vargr, Vilani, etc.).
=09
World Generator=09
    The World Generator creates a world.  Future additions may change=20
    this to include full stellar systems.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Cut Here =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #994
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 995



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Task System Debate
3 sided dice construction
Re: Characteristics
Re: Chauvinism
Re: micro survey
Re: MT-Careers
Re: MT-Careers
Skills and Attributes, a different approach
New stats? (was Re: My .02Cr on Tasks)
Dice Orthodoxy
the famous week-long jump
Task System Blues (my 0.0002cr worth)
Re: Glenn's theory (was A dice by any other name)
A Quick Early History of RPG's
RE: My .02Cr on Tasks
Re: Paint in vacuum + zero-G
Apology and Comments
"Legitimate" Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:55:07 -0500
From: "Matthew R. Briggs" <mbriggs@huskynet.com>
Subject: Task System Debate

Hello Friends,
	I hope I can speak for a few of the lurkers when I express a slight
measure of concern about the current task system debate discussion.  I
can't help but think that some people (possibly including the great MWM
himself) are being railroaded by the pace of this discussion, mainly due to
the impressive stamina of a single poster.  Kenneth, you've got some good
ideas but is it possible that you could slow things down a bit so that
others can mull over your suggestions and reply at their convenience?  I
know not everyone can read TML every day, and might be left behind if they
can't keep up.  I don't want to make any enemies but I've been quite amazed
at the number of posts that have been coming from your direction...perhaps
you could limit to one or two sweeping analyses or brilliant postulations
per day?  Please take these comments in the spirit intended. :)

____________
Matthew R. Briggs
mailto:mbriggs@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:24:39 -0600
From: Robert Gatliff <rgatliff@io.com>
Subject: 3 sided dice construction

I've converted some Six sided dice to three sided.
It's an easy conversion, for dice with dot's.

I started with some dice smaller than my typical
six sided (another alternative is to change colors).
I took the half sized dice and used a power
screwdriver (low-RPM) with a drill-bit, and drilled
out a few of the painted dots.  Just enough to
scrape out the paint, an exacto-knife can clean off
so little bits of paint.


  *
    *     ->    *
      *



  *   *            *
          ->  
  *   *        *



  *   *
    *     ->     *
  *   *



  *   *            *
  *   *   ->   *
  *   *            *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:22:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Doctor Vince <drvince@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Characteristics

>I would like to thank Marc for pointing this out. I would also like to say
>that if ANYONE can show me hard evidence that attributes do NOT contribute
>SIGNIFICANTLY to ability, I will go with the (attribute/2 + skill x2) crowd.

But how significant is significant? And do the statistics in T4 correlate
specifically to those required for given tasks? For example, (to use a
physical example) does the fact that I have an aptitude for martial arts
(based on DEX) imply that I have a similar talent for juggling (again based
on DEX)? Or knife throwing? Can you equate language aptitude and math
aptitude? While the same person could likely do *either* I contend that
*WITHOUT TRAINING* they can't do *BOTH*.

My biggest problem with the T4 system as it stands is that (IMHO) it
INAPPROPRIATELY weights the statistic over the skill. I never said that the
stat was unimportant.

>I contend that this all boils down to philosophy, and it is now apparent
>that Marc's philosophy is that the task system in this respect remain
>unaltered. And since Marc's name is on the game, his version of reality is
>the one you're going to get. I choose to accept that version of reality, and
>get on with playing Traveller.

But there should be an alternate rule for those of us who don't feel
similarly to Marc, and still want to play T4. I mean, doesn't it behoove the
author and guiding light to encompass as many GM philosophies as is easily
doable? Especially since this is such a small thing and would take about 1/2
a sidebar.

I agree with you that this thread is beginning to stagnate. I mean everyone
really agrees on some fundamental level; just some agree more than others,
but then agin the purpose of the list is to hammer out these sorts of
questions, right?

VC
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Familiarity breeds contempt. People assume I am familiar with everything
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	"The passion of lovers is for death..."
				Bauhaus
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vince Coccia, distinguished legal counsel for His Infernal Majesty, is :
		drvince@ix.netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:20:32 +0100
From: Carlos Alos-Ferrer <alos@merlin.fae.ua.es>
Subject: Re: Chauvinism

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com> wrote:

>	As for Angular vs bell on 2d__, I checked my notes and my stats
>text. My instructor was quite clear, 2d__ cannot produce a "True Bell
>CUrve"[from my class notes, and his handout] as it is composed of two
>straight lines. Book makes no distinctions. Different mathematical
>traditions, different definitions.

        Well, "bell curve" is only a name, and it is usually abused. The
strict, rigorous mathematics texts should not use it but for explainations.
Usually, it's true, it refers to the shape of a normal distribution, i.e.
related to the function exp(-x*x), and so it is obvious that 2D_ can never
produce a "bell shape", because the probabilities came out of certain
combinatorial numbers. So, yes, you are right, and almost all of us (me
included) have mis-used the term "bell" at one time or another.
        Kenneth, trust me, I'm a mathematician ;-).

        Carlos.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:36:15 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: micro survey

At 02:18 AM 2/26/97 +0000, Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>> >
>> >1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?
>> >
>> Tyr Gamemakers Ltd. published Space Quest, by Paul Hume and george Nyhen in
>> 1977 - IIRC, just before or just after Traveller (I forget which...)
>
>Actually, Traveller is the second oldest RPG.  D&D, of course, is 
>the oldest.  

Actually, "Prince Valiant" is the oldest game you could call an RPG, having
come out several years before D&D, even before "Chainmail."  It was
primitive (dice made from bits of mastadon bone as I recall), but still an
RPG. :)


- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:39:50 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: MT-Careers

At 02:18 AM 2/26/97 +0000, Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>> Is there anybody out there who have designed more Advanced Character
>> Generations Careers for MT and would like to share them with me or the
>> list?
>
>Check out Joe Walsh's stuff.  It is pretty good.  I downloaded it 
>from one of the pages linked to the IG page.  I don't think it was 
>Joe's though.  I think it was somebodyelse's who had Joe's stuff 
>posted.  
>
>He's done a Pirate, Spy, and Belter--all in the advanced 1 year 
>method.

I did a variety of Scientist careers for CT a number of years ago,
including Xenobiologist, Archeologist, Physicist, Sophontocist (replaces
psychologist :) ).  If I still have these I'll post them to the TML if
anyone is interested.

FWIW, I avoided careers and skills that seemed to have no benefit to a
Traveller character.  I don't know about you, but for me running a
character who has something like Architecture-5 (or even Steward-3) is a
real bore.  

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:54:53 +0100
From: HJ <Helmer@netg.se>
Subject: Re: MT-Careers

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Check out Joe Walsh's stuff.  It is pretty good.
- ---Snipped--


Thanks!

//Helmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:58:47 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: Skills and Attributes, a different approach

At 02:18 AM 2/26/97 +0000, Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>People think that because to are doubling the skill and halving the 
>attribute, you end up with much more skill than attribute.
>
>But, this is not true because of the different scales each is on.  
>Stats run from 2 to 15.  Skills run from 1 to about 9.
>
>The average stat is 7.  The average skill is 2.

This is an excellent point, and indicates that maybe the correct place for
the fix is in character generation: put the skills on the same scale as
attributes.  This would balance the importance of skills and attributes in
game play, make in-game calculations significantly easier, and probably do
away with the need to record intermediate numbers on scratch sheets.

This could also make for better granularity in chargen.  If you wanted to
you could make a table showing how many points you increase each time you
get a skill during character generation, as:

Number of times skill encountered:  1   2   3   4   5   6
Additional points gained in skill:  1   2   4   3   3   2

This is just off the top of my head, but I like this table.  It shows a
nice quasi-bell-shaped progression in proficiency (skewed toward the side
of skill acquisition, which is arguably realistic), and both the average
and maximum proficiencies don't change: a character with a skill-3 would
now have skill-7, while a character in T4 with skill-6 would have skill-15,
corresponding to someone having attribute-15.

Thoughts?


- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:09:49 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: New stats? (was Re: My .02Cr on Tasks)

At 10:37 AM 2/26/97 -0800, Harald Budschedl wrote:
>Kenneth Bearden wrote:
>
>> And it's relative to peers also.  Han Solo actually had, in my view,
>> a high soc in the eyes of the other smugglers.  He was Jabba's numero
>> uno smuggling pilot before the movie started (and this is finally
>> stated in the new digital scene in the recent released version of the
>> movie).
>> 
>IMHO it would be better to have an additional characteristic here,
>because as I understand it, pirates and smugglers love people with low
>soc.
>Charisma is a good suggestion for this.

I don't think we need another stat here, nor should Soc be made variable
(this reminds me of the specious old AD&D alignment argument, that "good"
is entirely relative to the society you live in).  

Soc should remain some measure of your standing in a fairly stratified
society, like the Imperium.  Of course, on some worlds this won't count for
much; no one's going to bow and scrape to your Soc-14 character in some
tavern on a rough backwater world.  Pirates, smugglers, and such are among
those who are successful *despite* their (almost by definition) low Soc.
Their notoriety depends on their deeds and reputation, not on what family
they were born into or even how incredibly good they are at a skill like
piloting.  You could be an unremarkable smuggler just because you're
unlucky or unwilling to take on dangerous cargo in odd situations, despite
the fact that your Soc is 2 and your piloting and trading skills are
excellent.  

IMHO, of course.

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97  9:10:18 MS
From: Steve Charlton/IFSNA <Steve_Charlton@Avalon.COM>
Subject: Dice Orthodoxy

Lesser beings!  Who among you has the holiest of holies, the
black 6-sided dice with the Imperial Sunburst in the "one" spot?

I'd love to see Imperium Games sell those again!  I only got two of them, and 
Lord knows I could use more.

Steve Charlton
High Archpriest
Holy and Benelovent Order of the Twin Imperial Dice

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:26:56 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: the famous week-long jump

At 06:44 PM 2/25/97 -0600, Glenn Hoppe wrote:
>The solid rationale is this:
>
>The charging of the jump grid creates a particle field which allows a 
>starship to enter jumpspace. It is this field which encloses a 
>normal-space "bubble" containing the ship. As long as the field is up the 
>ship remains in jumpspace.
>
>The field is generated by the jump grid, once the grid reaction is 
>initiated, it cannot be stopped -- It must be allowed to run its course. 
>It takes some time for the reaction to end; this time is 168 hours +/- 
>10%.
>
>Once the reaction is completed, the particle field is no longer being 
>replenished, and hence the ship naturally "precipitates" out of jumpspace.
>
>Sidebar: The reason why Lanthanum is used in the production of the jump 
>grid is because its properties are such that it is the most efficient at 
>"cooling". Other rare earths can be substituted at the expense of longer 
>times for jump.

OoOoOoOoh. I like this.  Not only does it give me a semi-rational
explanation (much more satisfying than "just because"), but it also opens
up all kinds of potential game developments:  What would a new jump engine
development be worth to the military, if you could suddenly predict this
reaction time to 168 hours +/- 1% or even better, instead of 10%?  What if
there were regions of normal-space that for some reason accelerated or
slowed the jump-reaction?  What if someone made a device that prevented
this reaction from taking place (a jump-dampening field) or caused it to
stop suddenly with a corresponding release of energy?  What if someone came
up with a new compound (a yttrium and copper clathrate surrounding a rare
lanthanum isotope, say :) ) that is even more efficient than straight
lanthanum?  

I'm sure there are scads of other ideas surrounding jump technology that
could be used as the seeds of solid scenarios, perhaps even to the players'
benefit ("sure the new engine is noisy and the grid looks funny, but you
should see the cops' faces when we go into jump at about 100 meters over
the planet's surface!").

Thanks very much for that explanation.  Pseudo-science is _so_ much fun. :)

- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:20:20 -0600 (CST)
From: lee@uansv2.Vanderbilt.Edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: Task System Blues (my 0.0002cr worth)

                "I'm gonna show you a little trick Mom taught me when you
weren't around-"
                                                                            
                                            -"Wizards"


        I've been following the task system thread for some time now, and
want to thank everybody for opening my eyes to the ramifications of the
current task system.  The current system has a great advantage in elegance
(half-dice notwithstanding) and speed, but, as has been oft said, it puts
way too much weight on attributes versus skills, which is unrealistic.  A
"skill" represents a body of information and experience regarding the
performance of certain activities (e.g. piloting, gunnery, brawling, etc.).
By acquiring more skill, an individual presumably has gained enough pratice,
instruction, and experience to know the most effecient and successful
methods of performing the related tasks.  High personal attributes make
tasks easier to complete, because of sheer raw capability, but without the
benefits of training and experience an individual is likely to make mistakes
that a more more skilled person would avoid.  I, for instance, have been
fencing for nearly fifteen years, using a wide variety of blades.  I can
defeat physically superior but less-experienced opponents  simply because
I've learned more about the art of swordplay than they- I can read their
intentions and employ a countermove at the moment they begin an attack.  By
the same token, I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle, but while my dexterity
is somewhat greater than my buddy the Marine marksman, he can shoot with an
accuracy that leaves me shaking my head in humble wonder.
        I see skills as a framework of education and experience (sometimes
painful experience) that optimizes a character's chances of acheiving a
specific task.  A skill provides knowledge that allows an individual to
avoid making many basic mistakes, and choose the most effecient course of
action in acheiving a desired result.  A higher-skilled character is much
farther ahead on the learning curve than an unskilled one.  A man who has
high hand-eye coordination could control a handgun well and shoot fairly
accurately, whereas a man with pistol training and four years' experience
would know to take into account his weapon's unique quirks, as well as
environmental modifiers (wind, range, etc.) to optimize his chances to hit.
        Skills enhance and amplify raw ability.  A high level of skill and
experience would allow an individual to make the most of his or her
abilities.  Thus, I would like to propose the following system, treating
skill levels as a multiplier of attribute levels:

Difficulty Rolls:
Easy (yawn): 1D (1-6)
Average: 2D (2-12)
Difficult: 4D (4-24)
Formidable: 6D (6-36)
Staggering: 8D (8-48)
Near-Impossible (I wouldn't, if I were you...): 10D (10-100)

Task Roll Success= Difficulty Roll<(Attribute*Skill Level)
Critical Failure: three or more 6's, regardless of difficulty.
Spectacular success: three or more 1's, regardless of difficulty.
note; 1's and 6's in the same roll cancel one another out on a one for one
basis for the purposes of determining critical success/failure.

Example:
        Luke Skywalker has just joined the Rebel Alliance, and for some
reason they've decided to send the kid on possibly the most important
starfighter mission of the war (never mind the fact that the kid has never
flown an X-Wing in his life, but I digress...).  Let's say that Luke has a
high dex (10), and all that time bagging womp rats has given him a Pilot
skill of 2.  Now let's look at Red Leader, who by all accounts is an older
and highly-regarded pilot.  Being older (and not the hero of the story),
let's us assign him an above average dex (8), but because he's been flying
fighters since Luke was in diapers, we'll give him a Pilot skill of 5.  Now,
under my system, this gives Luke a base target number of 20 (dex multiplied
by skill level, or 10*2), but Red Leader, who is less-coordinated but more
experienced, gets a target number of 40 (8*5).  Red Leader knows his ship
better than Luke at this point, and can make it do things the farm kid from
Tatooine has never even heard of, and thus has the edge, despite his lower
raw ability.  
     
        The upsides of this system are:
1.) No half-dice.
2.) It's easy and quick to work out target numbers.
3.) It allows low-stat characters to stand toe-to-toe with high-stat
characters, and hopefully allow more character
     diversity and uniqueness.
4.) It involves few changes to the existing systems.

        The downsides of this system are:
1.) HUGE base target numbers.  A character with a stat of 12 and a skill of
3 would have a base target of 36, which
     would make anything less than a staggering task a walk in the park.  A
counterbalance to this would be critical
     failure/success and situational modifiers.  Under this system, you
can't crit on tasks less than difficult, but
     then again, how do you critically fail to start a car, or log on to a
computer?  Also, it is important to remember
     that the Difficulty Rolls are based on AVERAGE characters with stats of
7.  A character with a stat of 12 is
     closer to twice that level of ability, and thus should be generally
able to accomplish tasks that an average 
     person would find daunting.
2.) Lots and lots of dice rolling.

        A final note on crit failure/success- yes, my rule means that there
is a greater chance of failure (or success) as the tasks become more
difficult, but that adds a level of risk that is intended to give any
character pause.  Sure, a character with a dexterity of 11 and an Athletics
of 2  has a base chance of 22 to leap from the edge of the building and grab
the departing helicopter's landing skid (a Formidable task, by my
adjudication).  If he succeeds, he manages something worthy of any action
hero, but if he fails...  So the question is, do ya feel lucky?  Do ya?
        In closing, I would like to point out that this rationale has been
worked out from a character play standpoint rather than a statistical model.
Frankly, my math sucks.  If there are glaring statistical problems with this
proposal, then I apologise in advance.  I look forward to
analysis/comments/napalm attacks on this idea.

Mike Lee
Classic Traveller player since 1978

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:40:02 -0800
From: Douglas McCorison <douglas@camax.com>
Subject: Re: Glenn's theory (was A dice by any other name)

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> The question is, "why must the field, after being initialized, be
> allowed to run its course?  After all, we can start it but we can't
> stop it?"
> 
> And what you said to that was, "Maybe the materials used in the jump
> grid cannot be 'cooled down', for lack of a better term, faster than
> 168 hours +/- 10%."
> 
> This made a whole heck of a lot of sense to me.  We can start and
> stop the effect, but today's technology (that is, Traveller
> technology) cannot at this point cool down the grid any faster.

Actually in my game I have taken this even further, to help explain 
what the heck the engineers are doing during jump...  In my game 
the jump grid doesn't cool evenly.  In fact, the larger the grid,
the more problems you have with keeping the grid even.  This means
that on a 100 ton ship, checks every 8 or 9 hours are sufficient
to keep things kosher (assuming it's in good shape), but a 200 ton
ship requires checks every 4 or 5 hours, and buy the time you get
to a 50KdT warship, a full engineering watch is required 24 hours 
a day to keep the grid balanced as it cools.  Hmm, does this help 
explain the standard ship crew requirements?

Douglas McCorison

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:39:26 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: A Quick Early History of RPG's

>Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:18:11 +0000
>From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Re: micro survey
>
>> >
>> >1. What SF RPGs existed before Traveller?
>> >
>> Tyr Gamemakers Ltd. published Space Quest, by Paul Hume and george Nyhen in
>> 1977 - IIRC, just before or just after Traveller (I forget which...)
>
>
>Actually, Traveller is the second oldest RPG.  D&D, of course, is 
>the oldest.  

Sorry to disagree with you again, Ken. According to "HEROIC WORLDS A History
and Guide to Role-Playing Games" by Lawrence Schick (Prometheus Books 1991),
the games which followed closely on the heels of D&D were BOOT HILL (TSR),
EN GARDE (GDW), TUNNELS AND TROLLS (Flying BUffalo) and EMPIRE OF THE PETAL
THRONE (TSR).
All these were released in 1975. STARFARING, a short-lived SFRPG using the
T&T system, debuted in late 1976, making it nominally the first SFRPG. It
dissapeared rather quickly from the market the next summer when TRAVELLER
appeared. Since TRAVELLER came out in 1977 and RUNEQUEST did not appear
until 1978, TRAVELLER does hold the distinction of introducing the concept
of character skills. So, while TRAVELLER was technically not the first
SFRPG, it was the first SUCCESSFUL RPG and a true pioneer in the hobby. But
it definitley was not the second RPG ever released.

Oh, and SPACE QUEST debuted shortly after TRAVELLER.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:48:51 -0800
From: Jeff Cornish <jcornish@appiantech.com>
Subject: RE: My .02Cr on Tasks

>----------
>on Wednesday, February 26, 1997 4:43 AM wrote Peter
>Hurley[SMTP:fantomas@connexus.apana.org.au]
>(Subject: 	Re: My .02Cr on Tasks)
>
>At 22:20 25/02/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>Well, I don't have the time to get involved with the Task System discussion
>>that is currently going on, but I do have a few comments that I'd like to
>>throw in.
>>
>>1.  Great idea to ditch the D3's.  The are not so much of a problem as they
>>are a hassle.  Whole numbers fit better into my feeble mind. :)
>>
>>2.  I have two skills that I would like to see added.  If you feel these
>>skills are already covered in others, I'd sure like you to tell me where,
>>cause I couldn't find em. :)
>>
>>     Farming -  The science of raising crops/livestock.
>>     Steward -  The ability to handle Higher society passengers on
>>Starships.
>
>The Steward ability should also include cooking. Just who does the cooking
>on Starships? Or if the food pre made pre done, AKA airline food...... Can
>you imagine a couple of weeks of this? yech!
>
Skill:  Steward (serves as Cooking -1)
>Description:  The ability to handle Higher society passengers on Starships.

Skill:  Cooking (serves 10 Middle Passengers or 2 High Passengers, 20
minutes at 400?)
Description:  Prepare and serve edible starship food.
Task Descriptions:  
- -Prepare prepackaged meals from Starport (class C or above)  during
first week of voyage:
	Average, EDU + Cooking (or Steward -1), 
		1D6 minutes per D6 meals.

- -Serve prepackaged meals from last voyage as new during second week of
voyage:
	Average, INT + Cooking (or Steward -1),
	If no parsley is on hand, Difficult
	If serving to high passenger/ SOC 9+, Very Difficult
		1D6 minutes per D3 meals

- -Finding the can opener for meals bought at the last Class D Starport
the ship stopped at
(during last part of second week of voyage):
	Difficult, INT + Cooking (or Recon -1)
		1D6 hours, uncertain

- -Preparing survival rations/crackers in inventive ways during third week
of voyage:
	Very Difficult, SOC + Cooking (or Survival -2)
		4D6+D3 minutes, fateful

- -Failing any of these rolls (mmmmm... rolls) results in the following
penalties:
	1st failure:	no tip (deduct 3D6 Cr from pay)
	2nd failure	no tip, complaint to Captain (as above)
	3rd failure	no tip, goulash splattered on uniform (as above plus
Cr10xD6 cleaning bill)
	4th failure	attacked by D3 passengers/crew.  
	5th failure	bound up and tossed out airlock.


	
		 
Modifiers:  
	
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:19:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Paint in vacuum + zero-G

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Anders Backman wrote:
> I'm worried (not really ;) about the description of a cloud, ball of
> droplets et c. In vacuum paintbombs behave like frag grenades and spray
> cans as sawed off shotguns which means that the droplets/ice particles will
> move in a straight line until they hit something. They will not hang around
> as a cloud unless dispersed really slowly.

Of course, a can of spray-paint could, in a pinch, also be used as an
Personal Free-Fall Maneuvering Device (albeit a potentially messy one).  I
wonder what its specific impulse would be?  Any F.F.S. devotees have an
answer to that one?  <grin>
                                                            - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:53:20 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Apology and Comments

>> This comes dangerously close to being patronizing. That and a certain amount
>> of pushiness is what is really beginning to annoy me about this discussion...
>
>Look, Allen, it wasn't my intent to be patronizing to you.  I was 
>trying to keep the subject cheerful.

Sorry Ken, I didn't mean to jump on you. It's difficult to divine attitudes
in an e-mail message. Perhaps the use of an emoticon or some such might help.

>And, you've been known to be pretty pushy and hot headed about 
>certain issues yourself.

I freely admit that when a thread goes on too long or a subject gets beaten
into the ground, I get testy. I apologize for that, and will try to refrain
from such activity in the future.


>Sorry you took it that way.  

I'm sorry I took your comments the wrong way

>> Then I have a suggestion. DOUBLE the number of skill levels characters get
>> and double the number of dice used at each difficulty level. 
>
>This would not work because doubling the amount of dice thrown would 
>would make the bell curve way too steep.  If you ran the percentages 
>on this system, trust me, you would not like them.

Well, this is 1.) why I'm not a game designer and 2.) why I generally don't
mess with rules.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:49:45 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: "Legitimate" Traveller

>Allen:
>
>That very approach (It's the DESIGNER's Game) is the very reason that shops
>Like GW and Palladium are driving people OUT OF THE MARKET. They both
>demand that all ideas be either published through a house organ of the
>parent company, or not published at all. If T4 is the only legitimate
>"Traveller", then I do not, will not, and only for a short while have:
>played "legitiamte Traveller".

I should have clarified further. I am not saying you have to play Traveller
EXACTLY the way Marc writes it. I don't even do that. I was referring to the
PUBLISHED Traveller. I have some serious issues with some of the things done
in First Survey, and may be deviating radically from it. But when it comes
to what gets put into the BOOKS, Marc has the final call.

>
>Traveller has a history of being open to player ideas, Allen, and when that
>ceases, it had better have a hard-core following like GW and Palladium, or
>it will fail as fast as Nova Force or Road Rebels.

I agree totally with this. I remember the Gygax "You must play AD&D MY way
or it isn't AD&D" tirades in the Dragon. I laughed at them then and I still do.

>In my 14 years of playing Traveller, I remember most clearly that EVERY
>EDITION EXCEPT T4 has had a "comment and suggestion" card. I got a response
>from Loren W to one item on one (complained about missing parts) and got
>the missing rulebook. I know it had to be the Card, and not the letter, as
>the letter went into the mailbox the same trip to the PO as I pulled the
>missing rulebook out of the mailbox. T4 doesn't need the reply cards, as
>they accept E-mail.

I am continually amazed at the responsiveness of the New IG to their
customers. Courtney Solomon and the others have responded to our complaints
and desires in 
ways that I would not have predicted four months ago. yes, the "machine"
still needs a little oil now and then, but it's defintley moving in the
right direction. And they DO accept our input into the game, as evidenced by
both M0 and First Survey. All I'm saying is that Marc has the final say over
the published product, and from what I saw in what he wrote, he has definite
ideas about the task system that do not mesh with what some of the more
insistent individuals here are saying. I simply want to move along to a
different topic.


Allen

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #995
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 996



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Task System Arbitor? No thanks
In-system Traveller?
Re: Honesty and the Half-Die
Re: MT-Careers
Milieu 0 amd First Survey grumbles
Re: micro survey
Skills vs Characteristics
Re: Bell Curves and Realism
Re: In-system Traveller?
Re: Roswell Incident
Re: Characteristics
Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #994
Jack of all Trades Proposal
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #992
Minor Problem with Otherwise Excellent M0 and FS Books
Re: micro survey
On Tramp, Free, and Other Traders
Re: In-system Traveller?
Re: micro survey
EMP Gun
ContraGrav and Thruster Plate Extensions 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:06:26 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Task System Arbitor? No thanks

I have no interest in being a task system arbitor. In fact, as of right now
I'm dropping out of this discussion, before I become even more testy and
annoying.

I do have a couple more comments before I go however.

I didn't claim to be first at anything. In fact, anything I may have posted
on the subject of task systems was strongly influenced by previous
discussions on the TML.

I also strongly urge IG to consider publishing a TRAVELLER COMPANION
featuring all of the best optional rules systems created by people on this
list. And I definitley think Ken's task system should be the centerpiece of
that book. Another thing I'd LOVE to see in there would be a POINT-BASED
character creation system with advantages and disadvantages and tables for
determining the characters personal histories. I would really prefer to be
able to CREATE Traveller characters rather than roll them up. (yes, I know
we can choose rather than roll, but I would still love to see a completely
objective point-based system.)

Retiring from the Task system discussion at this point;
                        Allen Shock

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:52:56 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: In-system Traveller?

Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
one star system?  I've always wanted to run a Sol-only campaign (hey, this
system is *big* by any measure), but I'm not sure whether a) Traveller is
the right system for such a campaign or b) whether this is entire heretical
to the concept of "travelling" as the game-name implies.

Thoughts?


- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 18:14 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Honesty and the Half-Die

In-Reply-To: <199702240952.DAA09535@weck.brokersys.com>

<< I'm sure that it will only take a few times before they need to look 
at this paper if they can't round up a D6 to a D3 on the first try. >>

Alternatively, buy (or make) a real D3...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:22:05 +0100
From: Helmer Jensen <Helmer@netg.se>
Subject: Re: MT-Careers

Mike Sellers wrote:
> I did a variety of Scientist careers for CT a number of years ago,
> including Xenobiologist, Archeologist, Physicist, Sophontocist (replaces
> psychologist :) ).  If I still have these I'll post them to the TML if
> anyone is interested.
- --Snipped---

Any MT Advanced Careers are intresting, so go ahead and post them.

//Helmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:14:47 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Milieu 0 amd First Survey grumbles

Just finished M:0/FS, and I am generally pleased, but...

There are a few things that bug me.  My main problem is that nowhere in the
book is any clue given about the size or membership in the Imperium!  The
only clue we have is the Core stats where various worlds are ID as Sylean
Federation.  Surely there are more worlds than this!

Also, if you look at the worlds of the SF, you'll find that most of them are
low population, pre-spaceflight planets.  This hardly seems to be a group
that is ready to go forth a conquor the universe.

A set of small maps showing the growth of the Imperium in 25 year leaps from
0 to 100 would have been nice.

While reading the history section, I kept trying to locate the Chanestin
Kingdom and its capital of Keshi.  No luck.  A similar fate awaited my
search for the Interstellar Confederacy.  I would think that some data
concerning these states would be avilable beyond the brief historical
sketches provided in M:0.

Which brings up another important point:  when, exactly is this book set?
I've found commentary from as far ahead as 36, with many commentaries from
around 20.  What gives?

I will admit it was nice to see my name in the credits as a rumormonger..

On to First Survey.  Only a few gripes here.  I'll add my voice to the
general moaning about the small type.. but remember when everybody was
bitching about Alien archive and its BIG print.. you can't please everybody.

Vland only has 2000 people living on it?!?  Is this going to be explained,
or is it left as an excercise for the individual GM?  Inow point your
attention to the Shuna system in Lishun: 0227 A385644-E Ag Ni Ri.  Well, now
we know where those TL14 vacc suits are coming from..  Lishun seems to be
heavy in high tech worlds, with several at TL13.  

Once again stellar type seems to have been randomly assigned without regard
for the world.  the worst case I've noticed so far is an Agricultural world
orbiting a M9d.  Gives new meaning to the term "iceberg lettuce."

That's what I've found so far.  Overall, I'm impressed by the work, and find
the books useful, it's just these little things that keep nagging at me.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|      Professional Driver - Traveller Guru       |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
|*************************************************|
| "I will not have my spleen serve the Zionists!" |
|                             -Bill Turnbow       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:13:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: micro survey

> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:13:21 +0100
> From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
> 
> Traveller may well be the fisrt SF rpg but D&D was NOT the fisrt fantasy rpg=
> .
> That one goes to the Blackmoor, Eldritch wizardry whatever=8A books by TSR
> that came before D&D upon which D&D was based. (I have the books)

My god, don't they teaach *any* history in school these days? :)

In the beginning, TSR created Chainmail.  It was derived from ancients
miniatures rules, adapted to man-to-man scale combat.  Almost as an
afterthought, they tossed in some monster stats.  People loved it.

Sensing a Good Thing, Gygax, Arneson, et al cranked out First Edition D&D
shortly thereafter.  This consisted of three little books in a small
box...a format certain other game companies copied a few years later.  The
three original books were (and here I'm reaching into the dusty back rooms
of my memory):

  Men and Monsters
  Tunnels and Treasure
  Wilderness and Overland Adventures

I may be utterly wrong about those titles, but the topic areas covered
were as those names imply.  D&D was a runaway hit, but also a rather
rickety framework on which to hang a game.  So TSR began producing
supplements containing rules expansions, new monsters, and general
backround material.  Unlike GDW's later pattern with Traveller, these
supplements (the first three, anyway) didn't have single themes; each was
a mish-mosh of whatever cool ideas were available at the time.  The first
three were:

  Greyhawk
  Blackmoor
  Eldritch Wizardry

Somewhere around the publication of Blackmoor, Dave Hargrave released
"Arduin Grimoire," a third-party supplement for D&D.  AG was famously
bloody and "Monty Haul"-oriented.  The critical hit table from AG is one
of the enduring classics of the RPG industry...for example, one entry read
"Entire head pulped and splattered over wide area."

At around the same time Traveller was published, TSR released
Metamorphosis Alpha, which someone else here accurately described as "D&D
in space."  This was followed a few years later by Gamma World, which I'd
in turn describe as "Metamorphosis Alpha on the ground." :)

OK, kids, there's your RPG history lecture for today.  Be prepared for a
quiz later this week.

Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
one of their publications!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:31:59 +0001
From: "Nick Meredith" <nickm@discover.co.uk>
Subject: Skills vs Characteristics

Merrick Burkhardt recently wrote giving a medical example which
beautifully demonstrated the nonsence that can occur when
characteristics overwhelm skills.

So far the only reaction I have seen to his post was to laugh with
the humour of it. I think he may well have hit a very valid point 
though, which should be explored further.

Given the assumptions which Kenneth is exploring regarding the
numbers reached by skills and characteristics it looks likely that
characteristic scores will be slightly higher (on average) than
skills.This will give the (few) characteristics a corrspondingly
greater effect than the (many) skills possessed by most characters. 

I have no problem with if this is the direction that Marc (and
Lester?) want the game to go. Where I do have a problem with it is
at the lower limits of this system.

Merrick's message clearly (IMO) demonstrated the absurdity of
allowing characteristics to dominate skills where the skill lies
below the "professional" level. Most T4 tasks will be attempted
by the character most likely to succeed in the task. As I see it the
system should be weighted to ensure that at below the "professional"
level the likelihood of success (and the importance of 
characteristic) is reduced.

The T4 system (as published) has a heavy penalty for level-0 skills 
(only certain tasks, and half the characteristic - rounded up). 
Perhaps we should look at a similar penalty being applied as routine 
to all tasks where the skill level is less than "professional". My 
gut feeling is that about a one dice penalty is about right.
- -- 
Cheers
Nick Meredith - nickm@discover.co.uk - Coventry, UK

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:59:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Bell Curves and Realism

   Hi.

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>

>> Reasons why not to use them:
>> 	1	they make figuring % chances somewhat more difficult
>> 	2	they require 3 or more dice to be rolled.

> What?  Any time you are adding 2 or more dice for a total, it is a 
> bell curve.

   Any time you are adding *3* or more dice for a total, mean, or
   weighted distribution, its a bell curve.

   [snip]

> Buddy, I don't know where you learned math, but that's a bell curve.  
> It may look triangular because of your histogram, but it is a bell 
> curve.

   I don't know where you learned geometry, but a bell is different from
   a triangle. And the probability distribution for two dice not only
   looks like a triangle because of the histogramming, it /is/ a
   triangle. It has a peak 1/6 high at seven, and decreases /linearly/
   to zero at one and thirteen.

> This curve just doesn't curve as much as, say, a 6D bell curve would.

   True; it doesn't curve at all.

>> 1st thing I was taught in Statistics: When in doubt, look for a bell curve;
>> it usually appears in any large sample.

> You should have been taught that, in craps, using 2 D6, its a bell 
> curve, too.

   It's a triangular curve.

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:11:24 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: In-system Traveller?

Mike Sellers wrote:
> 
> Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
> one star system?  I've always wanted to run a Sol-only campaign (hey, this
> system is *big* by any measure), but I'm not sure whether a) Traveller is
> the right system for such a campaign or b) whether this is entire heretical
> to the concept of "travelling" as the game-name implies.
> 

Years ago I ran a CT campaign based on Earth circa 2000 or so. In that
campaign mankind had settlements on Mars and some of Jupiter's moons.
The PC's did all their stuff on Earth itself.

That ran for several months and we all had a lot of fun. With several
billion people on Earth, I had no trouble coming up with adventures.

- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:19:21 -0800
From: "enrico@mail.mpath.com" <enrico@mpath.com>
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

I found a link that actually has the newspaper as a pic file.
http://www.rt66.com/~roswell/rosufo.htm?

It shows that the headline actually ran at 

ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO. TUESDAY, JULY 8 1947 

There you go!

At 03:27 PM 2/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>        Can anybody give me the date on which the alleged Roswell Incident
>is supposed to have taken place?
>
>
>
>
Erik Shumaker
Sr. CS Lead Engineer
www.mpath.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:09:54 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Characteristics

Doctor Vince wrote:
> >I would like to thank Marc for pointing this out. I would also like to say
> >that if ANYONE can show me hard evidence that attributes do NOT contribute
> >SIGNIFICANTLY to ability, I will go with the (attribute/2 + skill x2) crowd.
 
> But how significant is significant? 

Right!  I haven't heard *anyone* advocate making attributes unimportant.
Just somewhat *less* important than they are right now.

> ...For example, (to use a physical example) does the fact that I have an aptitude for martial arts
> (based on DEX) imply that I have a similar talent for juggling (again based on DEX)? Or knife throwing? > Can you equate language aptitude and math aptitude?   While the same person could likely do *either* I
> contend that *WITHOUT TRAINING* they can't do *BOTH*.

You sound like a candidate for my Aptitude Idea! <G>  I contend that a
character should roll up an Aptitude for each skill when they first
learn/use it.  This Aptitude is the specific natural affinity the
character has for that skill.  Let's take Martial Arts and Juggling
(both based mainly on DEX), your target number would include DEX as a
base (an important component that would still dominate the target number
for character's with low skill levels, but (for experts) the majority
would could from the character's Skill.  If the character had a low
Aptitude for Martial Arts (rolled a -1) then they would increase their
skill by 1d3+(-1) for each skill level (average 1), if they had an
average Aptitude (rolled a 0) then they increase by 1d3+(0) (average 2),
and if they had a high Aptitude (rolled a 1) they increase by 1d3+(1)
(average 3) for each skill level.  This character's Juggling Aptitude
would be independent of their Martial Arts Aptitude...or any other
skill's Aptitude. 

Advantages:
This method doesn't require any division at all. It keeps the basic
Attribute important...especially while skills are at a low level.  It
allows for players with the same skills to advance at different rates,
which is *very* realistic. It allows for some randomness, reflecting the
randomness of nature.  It doesn't require the use of 1d3 in actual game
play, with the increased skill numbers you'll want to go to whole dice
(I argue for 2/3/4/5/6/..and maybe 7 or 8).  It provides more varied and
interesting characters with only a little more work during Character
Generation.

Disadvantages:
You need to use d3's during the Character Generation process. The
Character Sheet needs a place for, and you have to record, an Aptitude
for each skill. Each Skill level increase requires a little math: Total
= Total+1d3+Aptitude, but it's only simple addition. The target numbers
do go up, so you'll need to raise the number of dice for each difficulty
level.

I'm open to suggestions on how to improve this idea (how to get rid of
the d3's for example), but I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. 
That means no table lookups, multiplication or division (if possible).

Eris, 
  the heretic

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:42:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)

   Hi.

   Just me quibbling again.

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>

> David, a 15 D6 task?  Without the numbers 
> in front of me, I can tell you that even if you had a 15 target 
> number, which is pretty good, your chance of rolling that on 15 DICE 
> is just about 0%.  As a matter of fact, you'd need a target number of 
> around 90 just to have a 50% chance of success.

   The target number for a 50% chance on 15 Dice is 52; this is ignoring
   the double-sixes rule. If you use the double-sixes rule, you cannot
   get a 50% to-hit probablity on 15 dice no matter how high your target
   is. A target of 90 would give you a 100% chance of success, if you
   ignored the double-sixes rule. If you kept the double-sixes rule, a
   target of 90 (or 900, or 1 million)  would give you a 26% chance of
   success.

   The odds of rolling 15 or less on 15 dice are 1 in 4.7 times ten to
   the 11th, very close to zero, as you said.

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:01:03 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #994

>> BTW what is BudgetLines?  It sounds like a starliner company that
>> I'm not familiar with.
>
> Just a name that sprang to mind - it may or may not bear a resemblence to
>the company that advertises itself with slogans such as "so economical,
>you'll think you're part of the crew!".

A pale imitation, my friend; compared to ValuJump, BudgetLines just THINK
they're cheap! <g>

"Why, you kids have got it soft these days! Why, back when *I* was first 
Travelling, I'd have killed for a fold-down bunk in engineering! I'd have
shut up
and been happy with it! We passengers used to have to compute our own
nav points; most of the ships back in Y double-ought DIDN'T CARRY 
ASTROGATORS! Y'all with your medics and stewards, SOFT, that what
y'all are, SOFT!! "

**********************************************************
  Paul Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
 CEO and Chief Bottle Washer of ValuJump Lines
"All of Our Cargo is Carry-On" (tm)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:07:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Jack of all Trades Proposal

   Hi.

   Wow, Ken, it looks like I'm really picking on you today. Please don't
   take it personally! I assure that this is pure mischance.

> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>

>> 	Here's an idea for JoaT. Instead of letting you substitute JoaT for
>> anything, what it does is allow you to improvise or pull together
>> bits'n'pieces of information to try to accomplish the task. For a task
>> where you don't have the skill, a successful roll vs JoaT at the SAME
>> difficulty allows you to avoid the unskilled penalty. In other words, your
>> eclectic knowledge was enough to give you a temporary skill-0.

   [snip]

> It doesn't give characters a skill.  What it does is give characters 
> a chance.  And, I can see them having to make the JOT roll you cited 
> each and every time they try to use JOT to get them out of a jam.

   Hmm. Seems to me that in most (but not all) cases, this will increase
   the probablity of success. I used a concept very similar to this when
   I used MT's task system, and it worked well then, and it made JoaT a
   very powerful skill.

   In T4, however, with the new JoaT rules, you make an unskilled
   attempt and add the JoaT level to your target. Since the penalty for
   an unskilled attempt is /usually/ larger than the JoaT skill,
   attempting something with JoaT is usually harder than making a
   skill-0 attempt.

   You are free, of course, to rule JoaT by your own preferences. But it
   seems to me that making JoaT equal to skill-0 (in a large fraction of
   cases) makes it more powerful, not less. (I worry that your fix to the
   T4 rules is inspired, in part, by a misunderstanding of the T4
   rules. Maybe I'm off base here.)

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:18:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #992

Subject: Re: CT Stats for Mercenary Cruiser ("Happy Fun Ball")

Mark Clark wrote:
>   This ship cannot be built using QSDS 1.4 (I tried).  The two modular
> cutters can't fit inside, and there isn't enough space outside to strap
> them on.  In the CT version, the cutters stick out the back of the ship;
> I guess one could fudge things by using a smaller than required hanger
> bay.  I'm going to try again using QSDS 1.5 - I'll post the result in a
> few days.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
The cutters have to be in docking rings (x 1 volume, no repairs)
- --------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^----------------------------------

  QSDS doesn't have these - must be a SSDS thing.  I did manage to build
the Broadsword with QSDS 1.5 , though - I'll post the design later today
after I clean it up a little. 


______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 13:25:03 MS
From: Steve Charlton/IFSNA <Steve_Charlton@Avalon.COM>
Subject: Minor Problem with Otherwise Excellent M0 and FS Books

I just got M0 and First Survey in the mail a few days ago, and I was very 
impressed.  However, I am forced to make one (fairly minor but significant) 
complaint.  Specifically, the UPP listings for the sectors.  The data was 
presented very clearly and concisely, but for some reason the text is very hard 
to read.  Big gobs of tabular data presented in a very fine font makes for 
difficult reading, especially in non-bright light.  I might suggest using a 
darker font (not necessarily a bold font, but not the spidery font used in 
these books).  The regular text was quite readable; it was only the UPP lists 
that presented a problem.

I guess if you are going to have problems with your publications, problems like 
this are much better than some of the earlier problems in the other Imperium 
Games publications.  Its good to see the improvements!

Steve Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:34:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: micro survey

   Hi.

> From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)

> Traveller may well be the fisrt SF rpg but D&D was NOT the fisrt fantasy rpg.
> That one goes to the Blackmoor, Eldritch wizardry whatever books by TSR
> that came before D&D upon which D&D was based. (I have the books)

   I have those books too; my copies say "Dungeons and Dragons" on them. 
   They were based on a /wargame/ named "Chainmail". Their names (in
   order of publication) were "Greyhawk", "Blackmoor", "Eldritch
   Wizardry" and "Gods, Demigods, and Heroes".

   But I agree with you; D&D was not the first fantasy RPG. I think that
   was "Empire of the Petal Throne", a cult classic from the early
   seventies. I haven't seen it in over a decade. I've never played it
   either, but I'd like to. I heard various rumors and legends about why
   it never became a hit, some of them quite spiteful.

   The only other RPG I knew of in 1978 was Traveller, so it may
   possibly be the third RPG ever published. But I haven't done an
   extensive literature search. 8^) Seriously, though, after people
   first heard of D&D (the first popular RPG), everybody and his brother
   was designing their own variant. How many of these ever saw a
   printing press may be hard to estimate.

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:32:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: On Tramp, Free, and Other Traders

I've been following with interest the ongoing conversation on trade
economics and categories.  I offer the following definitions for further
commentary.  Note that none is intended to be hard and fast, or "official"
within the Imperium; these are more the way terms would be used in casual
discussions among starship and port personnel.

FREIGHTER
A starship primarily designed for carrying cargo, though it may include
passenger berths as well.  More specifically, 'freighter' is often used
only for ships which carry bulk cargo under pre-arranged contract on a
fixed route; one of the other terms below is used to describe other ships,
even though they're also 'freighters' by the broad definition.

LINER
A starship primarily designed for carrying passengers, though it may
include cargo as well.

MERCHANT
A freighter which has versatile operating parameters; e.g., it carries
diverse cargoes, perhaps some speculative, may be cover different routes
from time to time, and so forth.

TRADER
A merchant with even more versatile operating parameters; typically a
small vessel which relies on flexibility and trade speculation to make
most of its profits.

"FREE" (as modifier)
A starship which is owned (at least in large part) by its own crewmembers. 

"SUBSIDIZED" (as modifier)  
A starship which is supported by direct government payments in return for
performing some fixed service; e.g., covering a given route of worlds at
some maximum interval.

"TRAMP" (as modifier)
A starship which chooses its itinerary based on availability of cargo and
passengers for various destinations, rather than on a fixed plan or
schedule.  Such a vessel will almost always fall under the "Free Trader"
classifications above; in fact, the terms are almost synonymous. 

***

Note also, by the way, that in any discussion of Traveller trade
economics, one must realize that player characters and their vessels are
going to behave *very* differently from the bulk of starship traffic.  For
example, an average merchant captain (or line operator) will choose where
to send her ship(s) based on pure economics, or a set of contracts, or
whatever; PCs will have these motives, but usually will also have some
more 'heroic' higher purpose in mind.  A typical scenario in such a
campaign runs like:

"We must return this sacred dagger to the High Skral of Junidy -- and
that's way over *here*, 8 parsecs away.  How can we get there, not run
afoul of the A'an-ke assasins, *and* make a profit on the way...or at
least avoid going broke?" 

In other words, the economic questions run in parallel with campaign
issues, constraining choices and providing good GM "hooks".  This warps
the behavior of PC merchants far out of the mainstream of interstellar
trade, in my view.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: In-system Traveller?

   Hi.

> From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>

> Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
> one star system?  

   Well, my players haven't left the Sylea system yet, but they probably
   will soon. CT produced two excellent in-system campaigns, neither of
   which I have used extensively yet: "Tarsus" and "Beltstrike".

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:57:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: micro survey

   TSR="Tactical Studies Rules". They were originally a tactical
   wargames company.

   Now gimme my two points!

   -Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 22:21:07 +0100
From: marino@inrete.it (Paolo Marino)
Subject: EMP Gun

I was perusing the pictures of an Italian SF CCG for some ideas and found a
card depicting an "EMP Gun". In the game it automatically defeats any enemy
robot card.

Has anybody used something like this in their games, or in other,
non-Traveller SF games? I don't know much about EMP effects, but something
which could be used at a range against non-military electronics has some
potential for me. 
Beside the obvious use against robots and fixed security or communication
devices, you could use it against vehicles (what about a shot against an
Air-Raft, for example ?)

Any ideas?


__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred)  | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:39:23 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: ContraGrav and Thruster Plate Extensions 

I have found the limited selection of TL's that contragrav and thruster
plates have in CSC/VDS and FFS.

So I have extended out the tables to higher TL's.

Here is ContraGrav
    |---------------------In m3-----------------------||--m2-|
TL  Thrust  Power  Mass  Min Volume  Min Thrust  Cost	  Area
9   33      0.6    1.25  0.1         3.3         0.004   0.6
10  50      0.7    1     0.05        2.5         0.008   1
11  50      0.7    1     0.02        1           0.008   1
12  50      0.35   0.65  0.01        0.5         0.01    1
13  55      0.18   0.42  0.005       0.275       0.013   1
14  60      0.09   0.27  0.0025      0.15        0.016   1
15  65      0.04   0.18  0.0013      0.08        0.020   1
16  70      0.02   0.12  0.0006      0.04        0.024   1
17  80      0.01   0.08  0.0003      0.025       0.031   0.5
18  100     0.005  0.05  0.0002      0.015       0.038   0.4
19  150     0.003  0.03  0.0001      0.005       0.048   0.3
20  250     0.001  0.02  0.00004     0.0097      0.060   0.2
21  400     0.001  0.01  0.00002     0.0078      0.075   0.1

Thruster Plates
    |---------------------In m3-----------------------||--m2-|
TL  Thrust  Power  Mass  Min Volume  Min Thrust  Cost	  Area
11  40      1      2.0   10          400         0.25    0.2
12  45      0.9    1.8   6.67        300         0.2     0.2
13  50      0.8    1.7   4           200         0.15    0.2
14  60      0.7    1.6   1.67        100         0.14    0.1  
15  80      0.6    1.5   1           80          0.13    0.1
16  100     0.5    1.4   0.7         70          0.12    0.1
17  150     0.3    1.0   0.33        50          0.10    0.08
18  200     0.2    0.75  0.125       25          0.07    0.06
19  300     0.1    0.45  0.033       10          0.04    0.04
20  400     0.05   0.27  0.013       5           0.03    0.02
21  500     0.01   0.15  0.002       1           0.02    0.01

Well let me know what y'all think. 

Not it is not "Canon", and Derek Wildstar had nothing at all to do with it.
<G>

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #996
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 997



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: StarShip Economics
CT "Broadsword" Mercenary Cruiser (QSDS 1.5 Version)
Re: Skills
Re: happy fun ball
Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #993
Re: micro survey
Re: the famous week-long jump
Re: Apology and Comments
Re: Task System Debate
Re: Jack of all Trades Proposal
Re: Glenn's theory (was A dice by any other name)
Re: EMP Gun
re: In-system Traveller?
Re: Fission Drives
Re: Dice Orthodoxy
Re: Fission Rockets, part deux
Milieu 0 "Map"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:13:34 +1300
From: Brody Dunn <brody@intersol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: StarShip Economics

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC249F.475CDF00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Leonard Erickson wrote

>> Free traders simply arrive and ask if anyone wants to go wherever they =
>> are going next - a haphazard method at best.

>You've got that backwards. They arrive and ask where people have cargo
>to ship to.

True Enough except that the rules do not care where the freight wants to go.
You roll freight independant of your final destination.  I've always preferred a 
link to what you get depending on where you are going and some of the recent posts
with freight income linked to origin and destination starports seems fairly good.

That said, it is also interesting to explore the getting a list of cargo with destinations
and making your load out of that list and selecting detination based on cargo carried.

      >A ship that has their next destination in mind isn't a "tramp"
      >freighter, and likely not a true "free trader". They'll be somebody 
      >making runs on a somewhat fixed route, but not necessarily on a fixed
      >schedule.

I would have though that the potential income for a trader (free or otherwise) would be be
greater if that trader has a set of contacts he can call on and get cargo / freight from at
each world he calls at.  This would imply that the contacts need to know where the ship
is most likely to go next.

Conversely, each contact would have a large selection of ships he is prepping for and so is
probably almost always able to find a ship that is going where the freight needs to go.

I am firmly of the belief that the Freigth and Cargo system both need the capacity for greater detail.
That extra detail should be made worth while by producing greater profits.  (this will mean that players
that are dead keen of trading and the details will get a reward for any extra effort involved)

Brody Dunn

No Sig, No Worries

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC249F.475CDF00
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC249F.475CDF00--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:46:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: CT "Broadsword" Mercenary Cruiser (QSDS 1.5 Version)

CT "Broadsword" Mercenary Cruiser (QSDS 1.5 Version)

Tons: 800 (Sphere (S))		Volume: 11,200 m^3	Cost: 517.5MCr
Crew: 24			High/Mid Pass: 1/27	Low: 0
Cargo: 22 STD + 60 Special*	Controls: TL12 Mil (Bridge)	TL: 12

8 Size				3 Jump Drive (240 Std/30%)
				3 Manuever (Thrusters, 602 Mw)
4x Civ Laser (0)1/2-0-0-0	1,050 Power Plant (1x1000, 1x50 Mw)
4x Missile Turret (+4)		251.2 (Scoop 320, Refine 0)
				0 Meson Screen
				0 Sandcasters
1x 50T Minimal Hanger		0 Nuclear Damper
	50T Modular Cutter	A10 P4 J10 Sensors 
1x 50T External Grapple		30 Armor, 18 Structure
	50T Modular Cutter
1x Air Raft

Crew Detail: 4 Engineer, 2 Electronics, 2 Manuever, 6 Gunners
             5 AuxCraft Crew, 27 Troops, 3 Command, 1 Steward
             1 Medical

* Special Cargo is 2x 30T modules for Modular Cutters

Notes: This is as close as I could come to the CT Broadsword using
           QSDS.  It carries the same number of troops and vehicles as the
CT version.  The crew is twice as large (partially because CT treats the
small craft operators as passengers), so there is less cargo room (only
22T compared to 80T), though one could get most of it back (46 more tons)
by putting the crew and troops in Bunks and the command crew in Small
Staterooms.  I didn't do that, since the troops likely would arrive in no
mood to fight, and the CT design didn't pack them in so tight.  The CT
ship also had no armor, not an option at 800T in QSDS, so the reduced
cargo area reflects that to some extent.  Of course, this version is over
100MCr cheaper, so it's not all bad.
	The only way to get two cutters aboard under QSDS was to put one
in a bay and one externally, and even then it's a tight design.  To make
it all fit I had to downgrade the communications system from Advanced to
Improved to get enough surface area, an unacceptable compromise in a
combat ship in my view.  There is room for a Basic communications system
as backup, though I didn't include one since the CT description didn't
mention it.
	The one major difference is that the CT Broadsword came with a
module for the Modular Cutter that could hold four fighters.  T4 Starships
does not offer this option, so I substituted a cargo module.  This
accounts for some of the cost difference, since a fighter module plus four
fighters would cost from 30 to 59 MCr, depending on the type of fighter
carried.
	What did I learn?  An 800T Sphere (S) in QSDS does not make a good
Happy Fun Ball - fitting in 2 Modular Cutters just leaves too little extra
space.  In CT hangers didn't take up near so much space.  I understand
that an SSDS designer could do better by using docking rings, allowing
both cutters to be mounted inside - the only advantage seems to be more
room for surface-mounted equipment.
	I think two landing craft (at least) are needed for redundancy, so
a QSDS designer should probably look at the 1000T Needle Airframe - the
extra room and surface area should allow for a less compromised design. 
The "Happy Fun Pointy Thing?"  Well, maybe.  Anyway, this is not a
Generica Shipyards design - not good enough, in my view. 

	I've included my design sequence below - QSDS 1.5 is used
throughout.  The only fudge is that I used two sensor crew rather than one
- - I thought a military ship should have backup in this area.  To balance,
I allowed only one repair person for the Cutters rather than the two
called for in the rules - since they're the same model, I think it makes
sense.  The total crew is thus by the book, aside from the fact I based
command crew on just the crew, not the troops - I treated them as
passengers who cook and clean for themselves (no steward).  Coments on my
math and design decisions would be appreciated.

			  Vol        Power       Cost        Area    Crew
			  ---        -----       ----        ----    ----
800T Sphere (S)		<749.0>      217.7       35.8      <1856.0>

Jump 3			  40.0       169.0      186.7                1.3
	Fuel	 	 240.0

Thrusters 3G		  43.0       602.0      150.5        121.0   1.4

TL12 Mil Controls	   3.4         2.5       18.2          0.3

Small Mil Sensors	   1.2        85.2       62.5         44.6   0.8

TL12 Imp Commo	           0.0        10.6        0.3        101.0   0.4

4x Civ Laser Battery      12.0       106.8        1.4         40.0   4.0

4x Missile Turrets	  12.0         0.8        0.4         40.0

2x MFD, TL12		   4.6         6.2       51.2          4.2   2.0

2x Sickbay (4 bed)	  16.0         1.6       10.0

1x 50T Grapple (S)	  15.0                    0.4       1129.0

1x 50T Min Hanger	 100.0                    0.4        126.0

TOTAL POWER NEED                    1033.4

1x 1000 Mw		  35.7     <1000.0>     100.0                1.2
	Fuel	 	  10.7

1x 50 Mw		   1.8       <50.0>       5.0                0.1
	Fuel		   0.5

17x Workstations	   8.5

Bridge (13 person)	   6.6

48 Small Cabins		  96.0                    1.9
  (21 Crew, 27 Troops)

4 Large Cabins		  16.0                    0.4
  (3 Command, 1 Owner)

Cargo
   2x 30T Modules	  60.0
   1x Large Air Raft	   4.0
   General Cargo          22.0

EXCESS SURFACE AREA                                       63.2

COST                                            607.4
 						 x0.75
                                                ------
						455.6MCr
SYSTEM COST
- -----------
Ship Cost	455.6
Cutters (x2)	 56.0
Modules (x4)	  5.8*
Air Raft	  0.1
		-----
TOTAL		517.5

* 1 ATV Cradle (1.8MCr), 2 Personnel Transport (2.0 MCr), 1 Cargo (1.0
MCr).  Prices are from JTAS #8, since there are no prices given in T4
Starships. 


______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:52:07 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Skills

Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:04:03 -0700 (MST),  Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
>So Joe Blow has Dex 12, and Medical 1.  He attempts an Average
>laproscopic cholecystectomy (removing the gallbladder).  The target
>number is 13!  Do you really think this makes any sense?

>Dr. Dianna Blow (his sister) is a 2d year surgery resident, with Dex 8
>and Medical 3.  She has a ~3% chance of screwing up, while her
>brother the EMT can do this sucker hung over (-1 DM :-) every time.

Well, in fact, the extremely talented medic suffering under a
doctor of mediocre ability and having to defer to him (even
though he can do things just as well, if not better) is
something that has been used more than once in literature.
I find it quite reasonable.  In my career as a Ph. D.
Chemist I've seen talent blow training away more than once.

>Does this make sense to any body else?

What this points up is that everyone is pushing their point of
view as "right".  It goes without saying that if you think
that training is more important than talent, then examples
like this are going to seem "wrong" (just as the will seem
"right" to people with a different point of view).

People can posts as many examples of what they consider
"screwed up" as they want.  Then those who agree will
chime in that it is screwed up and those who don't will
disagree.  In the end, nothing will change.

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:02:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: happy fun ball

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Mark Clark wrote:

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The cutters have to be in docking rings (x 1 volume, no repairs)
> --------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^----------------------------------
> 
>   QSDS doesn't have these - must be a SSDS thing.  I did manage to build
> the Broadsword with QSDS 1.5 , though - I'll post the design later today
> after I clean it up a little. 


QSDS has 'External Craft Grapples'...aren't those the same as 'Docking
Rings?'

That's the assumption I've been making...

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:21 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: The Task Thread (was Maximum numbers?)

>    The target number for a 50% chance on 15 Dice is 52; 

Sorry.  You are right.  I forgot to divide.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:17:17 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #993

Mark James Wilkin wrote:
> 
> I much prefer Mars Attacks when we actually get to see other country's
> national monuments get pasted. Oh and don't talk to me about the
> portrayal of RAF pilots in the film, I laughed so hard milk came out of
> my nose.

You have lactating sinuses?!? You know, with the right news story, you
could make a lot of money.

(couldn't resist...)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:15 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: micro survey

> Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
> to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
> one of their publications!

Tactical Studies Research

Oh, heck, I'm not under 30.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:18 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: the famous week-long jump

>
> OoOoOoOoh. I like this.  Not only does it give me a semi-rational
> explanation (much more satisfying than "just because"), but it also opens
> up all kinds of potential game developments:  What would a new jump engine
> development be worth to the military, if you could suddenly predict this
> reaction time to 168 hours +/- 1% or even better, instead of 10%?  What if


Now you see the beauty of Glenn's thought.  I don't care what Andy 
Lilly says, this is one great explanation.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:22 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Apology and Comments

> I freely admit that when a thread goes on too long or a subject gets beaten
> into the ground, I get testy. I apologize for that, and will try to refrain
> from such activity in the future.

Think nothing of it.  We all get testy here and there.

As for the thread going on too long, in my view, some might be tired 
of it (which is definitely the case from some of the posts), but the 
task we set out to do is not done.

The task system is not fixed.  I'm going to work at it, whether its 
on the TML or in private, until it is.

Marc's coming out with a revised editon, and now is the time to 
vocalized what you think should be fixed.  I am doing that.

Take care,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:17 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Task System Debate

> Hello Friends,
> 	I hope I can speak for a few of the lurkers when I express a slight
> measure of concern about the current task system debate discussion.  I
> can't help but think that some people (possibly including the great MWM
> himself) are being railroaded by the pace of this discussion, mainly due to
> the impressive stamina of a single poster.  Kenneth, you've got some good
> ideas but is it possible that you could slow things down a bit so that
> others can mull over your suggestions and reply at their convenience? 

Well, I should be flattered that you are interested enough in what I 
say to want to read it.

Normally, I don't post very much, and when things are hectic with my 
busineess, I don't even read the TML.  

I had a few slow days, though, and the task system is something that 
I'm interested in.  I feel that I can contribute something positive.

So, I've checked the TML a couple of times a day, and it seems that I 
always have five or nine replys to make.

I can see that this adds up for you.

Trust me, I don't have the time to keep it up.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:20 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Jack of all Trades Proposal

>    Hi.
> 
>    Wow, Ken, it looks like I'm really picking on you today. Please don't
>    take it personally! I assure that this is pure mischance.

No prob, Robert.  Everyone else is jumping on me because I'm posting 
so much anyway.

>    You are free, of course, to rule JoaT by your own preferences. But it
>    seems to me that making JoaT equal to skill-0 (in a large fraction of
>    cases) makes it more powerful, not less. (I worry that your fix to the
>    T4 rules is inspired, in part, by a misunderstanding of the T4
>    rules. Maybe I'm off base here.)

First, I didn't write that JOT fix.  I just read somebodyelse's 
thought, and on first glance, it seemed to be a good rule.

There does seem to be a problem with JOT in T4, and eventhough I'm 
not actively pursuing a fix, if I run across a good one, I'll 
probably use it.

My first glance at the fix told me that the character would be 
penalized because he had to roll twice to achieve the task (once for 
JOT, and once to do the skill), and the character has to roll for 
each and every try.

But you bring up some very good points as well, and it proves to me 
that I'm going to have to re-think using this as a JOT fix.

Thanks for the good thoughts.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:56:16 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Glenn's theory (was A dice by any other name)

> Actually in my game I have taken this even further, to help explain 
> what the heck the engineers are doing during jump...  In my game 
> the jump grid doesn't cool evenly.  In fact, the larger the grid,
> the more problems you have with keeping the grid even.  This means
> that on a 100 ton ship, checks every 8 or 9 hours are sufficient
> to keep things kosher (assuming it's in good shape), but a 200 ton
> ship requires checks every 4 or 5 hours, and buy the time you get
> to a 50KdT warship, a full engineering watch is required 24 hours 
> a day to keep the grid balanced as it cools.  Hmm, does this help 
> explain the standard ship crew requirements?

This makes a whole lot of sense to me and is a good extension of 
Glenn's explanation.

I think that I'll start using it, too.  Tell me, how do you come up 
with the check times?

Good thoughts.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:11:28 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP Gun

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Paolo Marino wrote:
> I was perusing the pictures of an Italian SF CCG for some ideas and found a
> card depicting an "EMP Gun".

> Beside the obvious use against robots and fixed security or communication
> devices, you could use it against vehicles (what about a shot against an
> Air-Raft, for example ?)

	Yes...if you have one of these it could be quite devastating,
except for one thing, 'the defense reciprocity rule', which is a nifty
term I just made up. Basically, most of human weapons development has been
a leapfrog effort of offense -> better defense -> better offense etc. _ad
infinitum_.

	 If an EMP gun does exist (and they're working on them right
now...) defenses against them will be readily available. Of course, this
doesn't hold all the time...we've had nuclear bombs for quite some time,
and we've yet to develop a decent countermeasure, other than More and
Bigger ones. But something that could be shielded against, would be, and
the cost of hardening devices against EMP will get quite cheap, especially
since advances in computing speed are running in the same
direction...towards optical circuits, which are quite immune to EMP
effects...that's exactly why CT has those Fib computers.

I could definitely see applications for such a device, but it sure isn't
going to be a magic wand.

A FGMP-14, now...well that pretty much qualifies as a magic wand ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:23:52 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: In-system Traveller?

>Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
>one star system?

It's a great idea - particularly if you're willing to do a bit of work,
and use relatively low-tech spacecraft (reaction drives with only
a couple of G-hours worth of thrust, no contra grav, no grav-focus lasers...
you'd have to make your own space combat system (maybe take BL and make the
hexes ten times smaller)).

Or do you mean set only in one system but against the Imperium background?
That could be fun to - go for it!

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:24:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fission Drives

I was perusing FF&S last night, and realized that nothing prevents HEPLaR
from being run off of a fission plant; it's only that at TL-10 that HEPLaR
appears, which means fusion has overtaken fission. I also went a'webbing
and dicovered a huge amount of stuff is out there, when I find the
material, regarding nuclear thermal propulsion, which NASA is looking at
for spacecraft propulsion, and is the same research that HePLAR is based
on, I think, the same principle, at least. 



Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:57:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dice Orthodoxy

     Black dice with the Imperial sunburst?  Color me impressed.  Where and
when were such dice ever available?  I'd love to get my hands on a set (MUCH
more than some "Traveller mousepad" foolishness).


Envious of the Ultimate Traveller dice,
Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:34:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fission Rockets, part deux

Well, thanks to a slip of the fingers, that one went out unfinished :-(

One site I found for nuclear rocketry is:

http://www.roadrunner.com/~mrpbar/rocket.html

it had this to say about one program, the NERVA, solid core nuclear
rocket:

"Solid Core Nuclear Rockets--Rover/NERVA 

The US government began the Rover program in 1956 at the Los Alamos
Scientific Laboratory to develop a nuclear reactor suitable for operation
as a nuclear rocket. In 1963, the Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle
Applications, NERVA, program was started to take the graphite based
reactor built at Los Alamos and create a functioning rocket engine. The
programs ran in parallel and involved Los Alamos, Westinghouse, Aerojet,
and other industrial partners. The final engine tested used a core made of
graphite rods 54 inches long, hexagonal in cross section with 0.75 inches
across the flats, and with 19 holes running the full length of the rod.
The rod was a mixture of uranium/zirconium/carbide in a graphite matrix.
Each flow hole was independently orificed to match the heat generation
levels.

During the years from 1956 to termination in 1971, the programs
accomplished the following records:

1) Highest power - 4500 megawatts thermal power

2) 5500 degress Fahrenheit exhaust temperature

3) 250,000 pounds thrust

4) 850 seconds of specific impulse

5) 90 minutes of burn time

6) thrust to weight ratios of 3 to 4

In all, 23 tests were conducted at the Nevada Test Site at the Nuclear
Rocket Development Station, NRDS."

Also at this web site are PDF's of two research papers, one about using a
solid core rocket for a Mars mission, and another, the intial concept of a
toroidal gas-core rocket.

And they say you can't find useful stuff on the web!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:35:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: Milieu 0 "Map"

I've acquired a copy of _Milieu Zero_, and have been going over
it to put together one more of my "Pocket Empire" analyses of,
this time, the Sylean Federation and its' competition.  

I've discovered that the map is an utter mess when taken with
the text.  I've also discovered that a fair number of worlds
have moved out of place.  I'll start with the Sylean Federation.


WARNING: There are some map spoilers here, so I can demolish
it most effectively.  If you're a player, you may want to skip
this message.


  SYLEAN FEDERATION.
     Sylea         A586A98-C   Hi          305  G2V

     Population:     30.1 billion.
     TL per capita:  11.98  (without Sylea, 8.13)
  Note that Sylea has no bases, and contains 99.6% of the
  population of the Federation.  This also conflicts with
  page 44 ("fourteen billion sentients inhabit Sylea").

However, Shudusham isn't included in the SF.  This means that
the map is for a time *before* Dawn, because Shudusham joins 
by -25 (the Chanestin Kingdom attacks "the Sylean industrial
world of Shudusham").  Shudusham adds 70 billion people with 
a tech level of 12.  In fact, the map has to be before -30,
when Vland joins, or -50 when regular trade with Vland exists,
or -100 when SFSS scouts return to Vland for the second time,
or we'd have better data along the route to Vland.

In fact, the Syleans were fighting the Interstellar Confederacy
for five worlds in the second century pre-Imperial (-200 to -100),
so it seems that this map has to be no later than that.  It can't
be much earlier, or Sylea probably shouldn't be tech-12.

Oh.  Speaking of them.  "The Confederacy centered on three powerful
worlds: Marsus, Protalus, and Sketola (the capital)."  All three 
"rapidly rose to TL12" and were on the Sylean Main.  Ha.

  Marsus     0714 B6A7999-8   Hi     521
  Protalus   0812 B845755-8   Ag     214
  Sketola    0622 B647488-B   Lo     404
   
Marsus might be powerful -- if it was tech-11 instead of 8!  The other
worlds are not.  Marsus and Protalus are nine parsecs, as the slowship
flies, from Sketola.  They're in the WRONG SUBSECTOR on the WRONG MAIN.
The Bunkeria subsector (and the IC) appeared in TD 9.  At that time, 
Sketola was 0622, Marsus 0127, and Protalus 0128.  I'd be more worried
about Fr'now, which makes all these worlds look like small peanuts
(and, incidentally, has also been moved into a different subsector).

...and as for Keshi/Dunea and their "militaristic rulers with their now-
superior technology":
  
  Keshi      1938 B566200-7   Lo           114

A hundred people at tech-7 with no government?  I don't think so.

Let's check out the Santry-Cordova worlds, too:

  Santry     1736 B4208AA-C   Na Po De     900
  Cordova    1836 C3409BB-B   In Po De Hi  703

Gee, these worlds are in the *middle* of the Chanestin Kingdom, under
three parsecs from Keshi.  Not only that, but Santry, which supposedly
gets mauled for only having jump-1 ships, seems to have tech-12 (which
should give them jump-3, or at least jump-2 ships).  Then there's the
unmentioned Uundi Zi jump-2 away:

  Uundi Zi   2036 A410977-C   Na In Hi     804

On top of all of this, Santry is jump-1 from Cordova!  So who cares
about flanking maneuvers through other systems, high-jump Imperial
fleets assisting one side or another, when their own jump-1 fleets
can jump DIRECTLY from Santry to Cordova!  So much for the war of
strategic maneuver won by high-jump Imperial ships bypassing a fixed
defensive line.

The Syleans should be more worried about the HiPop tech-12 worlds that
are scattered around the map; Uundi Zi, Skeen, Arnaki, Ganshas, Fr'now,
and Dishadishii.  One good (?) thing was finding the tech-14 vaccuum
world not far from Sylea that must be the source of those high-tech 
vacc suits (but I'll leave the location an exercise for the reader).
Also, look for Shibashliim/Cemplas (Core 1524), referred to in the 
text at the end of the sector data.

I've found some other problems, too, but I think that gets the point
across.  Let's just say that I'm not terribly impressed with the 
integration of the map for the new sourcebook.  I'll probably be
making my own maps, rather than get First Survey, if this is the
level of thought going into the sector maps.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@cs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #997
**********************************
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 26 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 998



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

A final (?) bit on Tasks & Skills
Re: Traveller Digest 19: Missing Pages!
[none]
Re: In-system Traveller?
Re: Milieu 0 amd First Survey grumbles
Re: Craig Berry's micro survey
Re: Skills
Blackmoor
Oldest SFRPG
Re: Help
Re: 2D Task System
Re: What TSR stands for
Re: Cooking
Re: Roswell Incident
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #996
Re: In-system Traveller?
Re: In-system Traveller?
Re: MT Task System
Re:Micro survey
RE: TSR=?
Followup to FS/M0 Subsector Names...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:30:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: A final (?) bit on Tasks & Skills

     Okay, this debate has been going on for awhile and  we're seeing the same
arguments being endlessly repeated by both sides, with no new ground being 
broken.  MM obviously wants to keep the system as simple as possible while 
retaining a reasonable level of "realistic feel," and KBv1.1 (and, for that 
matter, every other proposed alternate system) don't do that as well as the 
current T4 system-- they increase the complexity more than they increase the 
realistic feel.  However, despite all that, there have been some legitimate 
concerns raised, and therefore I propose two simple rules-fixes to better 
"balance" the current system, and possibly quiet some of the debate.  Note 
that these fixes have appeared before in one form or another, and I'm not 
trying to take credit for "inventing" them, I'm just re-stating them to suit 
my own ends.


1.  In character generation, an increase in character attribute (i.e. +1 Dex)
can only occur ONCE per Term (4 years).  If therandom method of determining
skills is employed, the second and subsequent occurence of attribute increase
within the same Term should be re-rolled.

(This is a simple fix to the problem I pointed out yesterday about mini-maxing
players wanting to increase their stats unfairly because of the statistical
advantage that provides.  There's no real "new rules" here, and nothing that
will affect 99% of cases, but it does provide an important block to abuse and
therefore I feel it should be included in the rules).


2.  In most circumstances, natural ability is very important to accomplishing
tasks, and can make up for a lack of "formal training," but this is not always
the case.  Occasional technically-oriented tasks will require a certain degree
of knowledge and proficiency that will simply not be available to less-skilled
characters, regardless of their natural "talent."  In these cases, the Task
Profile will include a Mimimum Proficiency Level as follows: Skill Name [N+]
(where N is the MPL), and a character who attempts to attempt the task who does
not have at least that level of expertise will be treated as if he were
Unskilled, i.e. he will only be allowed to employ 1/2 of his controlling
attribute.

    For example, Freddy Medic is a genius (INT 13), but he's never bothered
with more than minimal Medical training (Medic-1), whereas Johnny Doctor is
less bright (INT 7), but is a licensed doctor, with several years of training
(Medic-4).  Because of his innate brilliance, under normal circumstances Freddy
is a better medic than Johnny (target 14 vs 11), but in surgery, where more
advanced knowledge and skill is required, Freddy is reduced to guessing and
fumbling (target 8) while Johnny is still comfortably in his element (11).  So,
while Freddy is more effectively able to perform basic medical tasks
(diagnosing illnesses, assessing damage, staunching bleeding, etc), he also
must occasionally defer to his colleague's expertise.  This same example 
could also be used with Engineering, Computer, and/or virtually any other 
technically-oriented skill.

NOTE that for most such tasks the MPL will be [3+], defined by the rules as
being "professional level," but for certain extremely demanding tasks, the MPL
might be even higher.  These cases should be rare, however, and the referee
should be careful to differentiate between such cases and those in which the
task is simply extremely difficult (which is handled under the Task Difficulty 
rules).
 
(The absurdity of the high-stat-minimal-skill character being able to best his
more-highly-skilled colleague in every circumstance is the primary basis for
people's complaints about skill-devaluation and the inordinate weight placed on
statistics, but this type of situation is only really outlandish in a few
technical-type circumstances-- I can see how a  Dex-14 Rifle-1 character
could consistently best a Dex-6 Rifle-4 one, for instance-- and I think that 
this simple fix/clarification remedies those few problem cases. Again there's 
no new rule here that will affect the vast majority of tasks or increase the 
complexity of the base-system in any appreciable way, and this simple fix (one 
or two paragraphs in the rules, one number on a few task descriptions) should
help to clear up a major sticking-point.  Another plus for this idea, I think, 
is that it is consistent with the rules for Unskilled/Default tasks and the 
Jack-of-all-Trades skill description).

(3.  As others have suggested, keep KBv1.1 and other alternate task systems in
mind for inclusion in a possible "rules options" supplement somewhere down the
road.  Undeniably they provide a different feel.  As it currently stands they
also make more sense, but with the above two changes instituted, I don't think
that will necessarily be true anymore).

Now, I'd like to suggest that we put this task-debate away, or at least on the
back-burner, for a while and let MM and the folks at IG concentrate on getting
their revised T4.1 finished and ready for release.  Every day that goes by with
the current, inferior, product on the market, I think, is doing damage to the
reputation and sales potential of the game and the company, and I'd like to see
that remedied.

With that, I think I'm done with this topic,

Trent Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:47:30 -0800
From: David Smart <dsmart@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Digest 19: Missing Pages!

Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> 
> Quite some time ago, i purchased Issue 19 of the Taveller's Digest in
> a store. The shopkeeper told me that there were some pages missing,
> when he got it and let me have it at 50% off.
> Still, now i wonder if all issues were so mutilated that  pages
> 9-16 and 41-48 are missing, or if there also were complete issues.
> If somebody on this list has this issue and is willing to photocopy
> the missing pages for me, i'd be very, very gateful!

If no one has replied to you yet, there are complete issues; I've found
one at a local half-price bookstore. If you'd like I see if it's still
available and, if so, send it to you.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:43:31 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: [none]

Mike Sellers wrote:

>
>Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
>one star system?  I've always wanted to run a Sol-only campaign (hey, this
>system is *big* by any measure), but I'm not sure whether a) Traveller is
>the right system for such a campaign or b) whether this is entire heretical
>to the concept of "travelling" as the game-name implies.
>
>Thoughts?

        I'm currently in the process of brewing something of the sort up:
I'm tentatively calling it Traveller: 1965, and using an alternate setting:
a sort of Heinlein-meets-Paranoia alternate Cold War history where the
Nazis managed to build a few nukes and ICBMs and wiped Yonkers off the map,
thereby getting the Space Race off to a roaring start a decade early.  I'm
going to be using a bunch of TL6-8 FF&S designs, the StoryTeller task
system (because it's better at schemeing political underhandedness and
paranoia), and my own background that I'm developing with a friend.  I'm
aiming at a sort of B-movie Red Scare Elvis-in-a-spacesuit sort of feel; a
dark past future lit by lava lamps and a radioactive glow...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:59:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: In-system Traveller?

Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
one star system?  I've always wanted to run a Sol-only campaign (hey, this
system is *big* by any measure), but I'm not sure whether a) Traveller is
the right system for such a campaign or b) whether this is entire
heretical
to the concept of "travelling" as the game-name implies.

Thoughts?
- --------------------------------------------------------------

  I played in a game once where the characters didn't even get to see the
solar system, let alone other stars.  Set on a Red Zone law level F (!)
planet, in character we started the game not even knowing that space
travel was possible.  We got hints as time went on, but the campaign
folded before we managed to escape the planet (which we would have loved
to do considering how much trouble we were in by then).

  The game was cyberpunkish in feel, well before cyberpunk games were
around (I'd guess we played this campaign around 1981).  We were average
Jills and Joes, turned to life on the run as freedom fighters due to a
computer error.  Star Wars was certainly an influence, since all of us
were psionic to one degree or another (a plot device, as I recall).

  The one scene I remember most clearly was a chase.  My friend Dale
(now a systems programmer, then a chemistry major who loved these new
"personal computers") had rolled the psionic ability of "special" and the
GM allowed him to come up with ideas.  He decided he wanted to have the
computational ability of a Model 1 computer, having read Dune and liking
the idea of Mentats.  We thought this was a silly power, compared to our
own TK and teleport abilities.  Until the chase, that is.  We were running
from the police, who were heavily armed, and all we had were a few
not-very-effective grenades, having run out of psionic powers getting the 
grenades.  When asked what we wanted to do, we dropped some grenades for
the police to run over, but it was such a hard task (and none of us had
grenade skill), that we kept missing.  Dale, who had been silent to this
point, then stated he was going to use his computer abilities to
calculate exactly how long to hold the grenade before dropping it.
Worked like a charm, and our characters were much nicer to his character
after that. 


______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:05:52 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 amd First Survey grumbles

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Just finished M:0/FS, and I am generally pleased, but...

Glad to hear it.  With all the talk of new task systems, I was afraid 
we'd never hear much about how we did with M0. :)


> There are a few things that bug me.  

Me, too. ;)

> My main problem is that nowhere in the
> book is any clue given about the size or membership in the Imperium!  The
> only clue we have is the Core stats where various worlds are ID as Sylean
> Federation.  Surely there are more worlds than this!

'Twould have been nice to have had First Survey while making M0.  Gad, if 
I had a dollar for each time one of us said that . . .

But, we didn't.  And the work suffered because of it.  Hopefully that 
will never happen again.


> A set of small maps showing the growth of the Imperium in 25 year leaps 
> from 0 to 100 would have been nice. 

Yup.  I agree wholeheartedly.  I wish we could have done that.  :(


> Which brings up another important point:  when, exactly is this book set?
> I've found commentary from as far ahead as 36, with many commentaries
> from around 20.  What gives? 

Milieu 0 covers the period 0 through 199.  Milieu 200 picks up at 200 and 
will presumably cover the period until the next Milieu book (whatever 
that will be).  If you want a "publication date" for it, to pretend it is 
an Imperial Publication of some sort (like the old CT adventures with 
their official dates), assuming sometime around year 40 would probably be 
okay.  IIRC, we were supposed to leave off sometime around there - far 
enough past year 0 to get a little perspective in some of the articles, 
but not so far as to give away everything that happens during the first 
200 years of the Imperium. :)  Maybe Andy recalls more specifically what 
the "publication date" for M0 was supposed to be.  Andy?


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:11:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Craig Berry's micro survey

Craig:

_T_actical _Simulations _R_esearch.

Admittedly, this is a wild stab in the dark. I'm 29 years old and I once
owned the 8.5 x 11 Basic D&D boxed set published some time in the late 70s.

I vaguely remember knowing what TSR meant at one time before I matured and
bailed on the game for Traveller in 1980 at the tender age of 13.

Best,

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:31:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Skills

 
> >So Joe Blow has Dex 12, and Medical 1.  He attempts an Average
> >laproscopic cholecystectomy (removing the gallbladder).  The target
> >number is 13!  Do you really think this makes any sense?
> 
> >Dr. Dianna Blow (his sister) is a 2d year surgery resident, with Dex 8
> >and Medical 3.  She has a ~3% chance of screwing up, while her
> >brother the EMT can do this sucker hung over (-1 DM :-) every time.
> 
> Well, in fact, the extremely talented medic suffering under a
> doctor of mediocre ability and having to defer to him (even
> though he can do things just as well, if not better) is
> something that has been used more than once in literature.
> I find it quite reasonable.  In my career as a Ph. D.
> Chemist I've seen talent blow training away more than once.

Nonsense.  Joe will beat Dianna in *any* Dex driven surgery,
regardless of whether or not he has ever even seen the proceedure,
as will _any_other_ medical 1 person with better Dexterity.  This is
absurd, sorry.

Two point of target number on an Average task are at most ~10-15% at
the typical target number we're talking here (8-11 or so).  Do you
really think anybody who can do BCLS or ACLS and dress a wound is
80% the surgeon that any general surgeon is?  Sorry, this is silly.

> What this points up is that everyone is pushing their point of
> view as "right".  It goes without saying that if you think
> that training is more important than talent, then examples
> like this are going to seem "wrong" (just as the will seem
> "right" to people with a different point of view).

This example can't seem right to anybody.  My point wasn't that the
die rolling system was wrong, it was that _task_levels_ are set in a
sloppy way.  To address what you think is the answer to the story I
told above, it seems that a Medic skill would be a different skill
than Medical (or Surgical, for that matter).  So we might have a
situation where a Medical 5 person has a rougher go on a nasty
battlefield trauma than the Medic 3 EMT.  Simple.  But I'll stand by
the surgery example.
 
> People can posts as many examples of what they consider
> "screwed up" as they want.  Then those who agree will
> chime in that it is screwed up and those who don't will
> disagree.  In the end, nothing will change.

You managed to miss the whole point of my post.  I was suggesting
that we set tasks better.  The task example I posted was an abuse of
the system---bad reffing, IMHO.  I think that the rules should make
some better guidelines so people can write better tasks (I'd let a
medic have a go at surgery, but he'd have to study up, and have a
reference or something---and it'd take longer.)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:57:35 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Blackmoor

was Book 5 for D&D, I have a copy.

The Blackmoor campaign system was never published separately.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:51:37 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Oldest SFRPG

>Actually, Traveller is the second oldest RPG.  D&D, of course, is
>the oldest.
>
>Therefore, there were no SF RPGs before Traveller.
>
>Kenneth.
WRONG!

There was one by Flying Buffalo... Copyright was 1976 onn the copy I have seen.

Tunnels and Trolls also predates Traveller and Post dates D&D (1975). Also
by Flying Buffalo. (BTW, this one, I just looked up in my copies of T&T).


Traveller was first printed in 1977. Making it the FOURTH RPG, and the
SECOND SFRPG.



William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:39:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Help

>> >1) Does anyone dispute that the average characteristic for a
>> >human is 7?  Marc Miller or anybody else on the TML?
>>
>> Only for the average 18 YO Human... average tends to be close to 8 for
>> 22-33 yo characters under CT/MT/T4 due to attribute raises in CGen.
>
>You say this eventhough the printed standard in CT/MT was 7?

CT/MT 18 yo was a 7, and average fell around 8.xx when friends and I did
the stat run on Sup 1 and Sup 4 a few years back., so no, ken, the "Average
imperial" as represented by published materials is around 8 in CT, MT, and
T4; in TNE average was a 6, as TNE didn't give as many chances to raise
attributes.

>> >2)  Are T4 skill levels valued the same as CT skill levels eventhough
>> >a character may have more skills?
>>
>> Definitely not. T4 has only about 50% more skills on the total skill list,
>> and 2.5 times as many skills per term on average.
>
>You are comparing this to MT, right?  On the skill list, are you
>counting all those individual weapon skills that are neatly bundled
>into a few skills in T4?

No, to CT. See my post of a few days back. MT has about 85 DISCRETE skills,
and about 120 entries on it's skill list (including all the "specific
weapon types" for CT compatability). T4 has around 1.5 times as many skills
recieved as MT.

>Also, you haven't quite answered my question.  I'm not asking if T4
>has a better skill list.  I'm asking if each individual skill level
>is valued the same as a CT or MT skill.
>
>Take Medical, for example.  Does Medical-3 in T4 equal the same
>amount of skill prowess as Medical-3 in MT or CT?

Supposedly. But under T4, there will be more persons with such skill levels.

Truth be told, In PLAY it felt like a T4 level 5-6 was equivalent to MT
levels 3-4. The math also suggests a comparison of 2 MT levels equals 3 T4
levels.

And T4's Medical/First Aid dichotomy also presents a comparison problem. I
*L*I*K*E* the dichotomy. So much so that I'm working it into MT.

Just for reference, I last played MT as a player in 88, as a GM in 96. CT
Player in 96, ref in 87. T4 only as ref. TNE ref only last in 95. I feel
the differences as a GM quite tightly... and looked at the skill lists for
all the systems before pointing out the lengths.

T4, TNE, and MT all have comparable skill lists, in both detail level and
length. They differ in content, however. CT's is about 2/3 MT, but I don't
count the stuff in books 4-8 in that figure. CT with books 4-8 has almost
the same skill list as MT, but doesn't have the "catch-all" weapon skills.
Every version has given me a better idea of the previous version's skill
list. Oh, btw, I don't count the extra skills in any of the TNE, CT or MT
alien modules in the skill lists.

Is that better, kenneth? (Really, I AM trying to help. Might not SEEM that
way at times...)


William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:41:50 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: 2D Task System

>>I would like to hear from anyone out there who has play-tested this system
>>- - how did it work? Any problems? I haven't had much chance to try it in
>a
>>real game - I'm still working up my campaign, while playing in Roderick's.

Jeff replies,

>Yes, I've tried it with my game group.
[snipping snipping snipping goes the scissorman... sorry, listening to XTC]

>Anyway, we were very satisfied with the 2D task system (3D? whatever...)
>and I intend to use it in any games I run in the future.

Glad to hear it. True, it wasn't designed for such high skill levels, but
that's for you do deal with :) .

The extra die is an interesting touch. If it adds texture without taking
more time, I'm all for it. I think the probability of rolling three of the
same is about 6%, with a 0.5% chance of three ones or three sixes. On 2D,
it's a 5.6% chance for a Spectacular result.

Of course, as soon as I reposted the thing, I started re-analyzing the
probabilities, with the result that I'm now considering some major changes,
intended to make it easier to calculate TNs. Also, I think the stat:skill
ratio should be 3:1, not 2:1 as it now stands. This new version will be
useless for your game, as I suspect it won't work for skills higher than 10
or so.

Compared to the current version, TNs will be a lot lower at skills of 1-2,
a bit lower from 3 to 5, the same for skill 6, and higher above that.
(FrEx: At Stat=11, the TNs for Skill Levels 1, 2, 3, 4 will become: 11, 14,
21, 24, and so on. Impossible tasks will be out of the reach of PCs with
Skill 1-2 and Stat 10 or less. But that seems acceptable to me.

Finally, I think I'll accept fate and draw it up as a TN table - so you
don't *have* to muck around with any math at all, just check the table
(ick). Adding and subtracting modifiers in "base 6" can be really annoying
(it's not even *really* base 6, it's a bit weirder than that...). The
strange math is the main flaw in the system. Otherwise I like it for its
strict regularity.

My original plan was for something exceedingly easy and straitforward.
Like: "Difficulty level = the first digit of the TN; the Skill = the second
digit. Then add attribute mods." This seemed perfect at first thought,
because there are six levels of difficulty, and skills are rarely higher
than 6 in T4. Of course, the problem with this idea was the 1:1 skill to
stat ratio, and the difficulty of doing math in "base 6". I was tempted to
do it as a D10 system, but the farther we stray from T4, the harder it is
to convert everything. Even as it is, my system is incompatible with the T4
Multiple Actions rule, for instance.

Will post the new version soon.

Thanks for the comments!

Glenn G.

- -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                      <pawn@cam.org>
Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
                  -- Trevor Goodchild

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:47:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: What TSR stands for

> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:57:26 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
> 
>    TSR="Tactical Studies Rules". They were originally a tactical
>    wargames company.
> 
>    Now gimme my two points!

Congratulations!  Upon submitting proof that you're under 30, you will be
granted 2 Ce Acatl Bonus Points(tm), redeemable wherever fine Ce Acatl
products are sold.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:58:06 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Cooking

I've always assumed Cooking to be a separate skill, however I also adjust
the entry to include:

Steward: Serves as Cooking at -1

and allowed anybody who can justify it (very easy to do) to have cooking 0
at start of play.

Also, when used to impress, it is a SOC based task (Under MT/TNE/T4). Just
cooking for sustenance/institutional use is INT based. In most cases, I
just don't worry about it.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:56:52 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

- ----------
> From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Roswell Incident
> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 1997 3:27 PM
> 
> 
> 
>         Can anybody give me the date on which the alleged Roswell
Incident
> is supposed to have taken place?
> 

Just what exactly does this innocent little question hide?  (Glaring white
light
placed two feet from your face, you begin to sweat from the heat coming off
the bulb....)

Eric Freitas
edf@atlantic.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:02:44 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #996

>Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
>to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
>one of their publications!
>
Tactical Studies Rules. I was born in sept of 69. I want my bonus points!

;-)

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:11:01 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: In-system Traveller?

Robert Flammang wrote:
> 
>    Hi.
> 
> > From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
> 
> > Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
> > one star system?
> 
>    Well, my players haven't left the Sylea system yet, but they probably
>    will soon. CT produced two excellent in-system campaigns, neither of
>    which I have used extensively yet: "Tarsus" and "Beltstrike".


You reminded me of three excellent 2300 AD modules, all taking place on one world:
Ranger, Nyotekundu and Aurore

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:09:21 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: In-system Traveller?

Mike Sellers wrote:
> 
> Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
> one star system?  I've always wanted to run a Sol-only campaign (hey, this
> system is *big* by any measure), but I'm not sure whether a) Traveller is
> the right system for such a campaign or b) whether this is entire heretical
> to the concept of "travelling" as the game-name implies.

Live, laugh, be free, explore the Solar System
I think your question should be, can I produce enough plots that are exciting for my players 
and not just me. If the answer to that is yes, then go for it

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:13:57 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: MT Task System

William F. Hostman wrote:
> >Well, i always continued to used the olde MT Task System, and i
> >wouldn't think anything of it if IT got chosen (with slight reworking,
> >maybe) as the "NEW" T4 Task system!
> 
> Here, here!

Not just here! Everywhere.
TPFMTTS

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:19:38 -0500
From: michael lee galligan <teflonkid@voyager.net>
Subject: Re:Micro survey

Craig Berry wrote 
> Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
> to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
> one of their publications!
 
As I understand it, TSR does not stand for anything.
Teflonkid out.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:51:35 -0500
From: Commander X <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: RE: TSR=?

> Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
> to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
> one of their publications!

TSR stands for "Tactical Studies Rules"  I am 26 and remember that from
memory, honest!
- -- 
Commander X
(cmdrx@magicnet.net <or> bprankard@theiia.org)
Creator, Maintainor, and Webmeister of "Planet X"
(www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 20:46:02 -0400
From: FKiesche@concentric.net
Subject: Followup to FS/M0 Subsector Names...

Greetings All:

This is a followup to my previous message on what subsector names I =
had found for First Survey/Milieu Zero. A Kind Soul had pointed out =
two possible web pages, so I=B9m appending my first message to show =
the additional names I=B9ve found.

Sources of Names

(1) GDW or DGP sources

(2) Peter Keel=B9s web page:

http://www.lugs.ch/~killer/traveller/

(3) Joe Heck=B9s web page:

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/

CORRIDOR SECTOR
A--Khouth
B--Kukish
C--Lemish
D--The Narrows
E--Ian
F--Strand
G--Naadi
H--Uanti
I--Shush
J--The Empty Void
K--Atu'l
L--Kivu
M--Two Worlds
N--Ashishinipar
O--Sinta
P--Sashrakusha

VLAND SECTOR
A--Voskhod
B--Vhodar
C--Anarsi
D--Theton
E--Lalaki Kharir
F--Kagamira
G--Vland
H--Shiigus
I--Dusa
J--Akumid
K--Kasear
L--Anaked
M--Parsi
N--Daangiilu
O--Nulisud
P--Kakadan

LISHUN SECTOR
A--Vakkuun
B--Adawi
C--Sutri
D--Criideu
E--Pryden
F--Masionia
G--Gama
H--Tephany
I--Shuna
J--Taccis
K--Simen
L--Ot Zell
M--Shuun
N--Welling
O--Strashna
P--Mirmida

CORE SECTOR
A--Apge
B--Perite
C--Ameros
D--Shinkan
E--Sanches
F--Mekee
G--Core
H--Kaskii
I--Bunkeria
J--Cemplas
K--Chant
L--Dingtra
M--Cadian
N--Ch'naar
O--Dunea
P--Saregon

MASSILIA SECTOR
A--Kerr
B--Arar
C--Khisham
D--Zalucha
E--Keum
F--Vaait
G--Forquee
H--Palasha
I--Ten Suns
J--Shiwenee
K--Nes'Vra
L--Tooka
M--Annari
N--Shokee
O--Shimmer
P--Oreo

- --ADDITIONS (to the first message)--

ANTARES SECTOR
A--Pelusium
B--Ninik
C--Dartho
D--Oulduktak
E--Shurlarlem
F--Sarar
G--Gimgir
H--Kiirkandin
I--Urunishu
J--Urnadim
K--Antares
L--Mukusi
M--Argusap
N--Gaakish
O--Sakhag
P--Marikaad

GUSHEMEGE SECTOR
A--Riften
B--Khiira
C--Taapvaia
D--Tansa
E--Gandonen
F--Rure
G--Ankhsusgar
H--Isi Ahto
I--Balech
J--Sallounn
K--Dashinshaii
L--Shire
M--Vipach
N--Laeth
O--Truax
P--Lagan

DAGUDASHAG SECTOR
A--Mimu
B--Old Suns
C--Arnakhish
D--Iiradu
E--Shallows
F--Ushra
G--Khandi
H--Kuriishe
I--Zeda
J--The Remnants
K--Pact
L--Gadde
M--Bolivar
N--Argi
O--Sapphyre
P--Laraa

FORNAST SECTOR
A--?
B--?
C--?
D--Kasmar
E--?
F--?
G--?
H--Renthal
I--Rirese?
J--?
K--?
L--Orin
M--?
N--Zukhin
O--?
P--Laran

The names listed are from the first web page listed above.

In addition to these names, I pulled the following name from Joe =
Heck=B9s web page. Note that these are star names, not necessarily =
subsector names: Misharkin, Setten, Khalu, Kidulaar, Nakindaa, =
Maarika, Esimli, Khangesa, Mikur, Ashigaar, Gupakash, Kasas, Sudar, =
Gakun, Auur, Irim, Derri, Shumduur, Gusashka, Idde, Rishalii, Iguu, =
Welland, Zukhin, Happin Belt, Shinuam, Kiikham, Ikle, Shakhishir.

ILELISH SECTOR
A--Arlumer
B--Bakkula
C--Miitan
D--Ilelish
E--Steppe
F--Shillish
G--Akkula
H--Shudash
I--Verran
J--Dlan
K--Desta
L--Gadirur
M--Edge
N--Lyystra
O--Zagrab
P--Empty (?)

Note: Subsector P is called EMPTY. There is no indication if that is =
the name of the subsector, or that the subsector is empty and not =
generated.

ZARUSHAGAR SECTOR
A--Ibaru
B--Triton
C--Lagaar
D--Lode
E--Iimii
F--Khipge
G--Epshu
H--Gaussi
I--Mizar
J--Liasdi
K--Wolf
L--Oasis
M--Void (?)
N--Allegro
O--Rhamsteppe
P--Mongrabi

Note: As with the above sector list, I am not sure if the subsector =
called VOID is really named Void, or is an empty/ungenerated =
subsector.

DELPHI SECTOR
A--Kirkankhim
B--Tsent
C--Dighirpi
D--Forlorn
E--Zukhumi
F--Rifts Reach
G--Rayoci=B9Ailr
H--Tolananda
I--Aklan
J--Void (?)
K--Anaxias
L--Eduum
M--Eta-Gu
N--Riramla
O--Zuma
P--Breda

Note: See the above note on a subsector named VOID!

If anybody can shed light on these questions, much appreciated!



Frederick Paul Kiesche III
(FKiesche@concentric.net)
(Traveller since 1977!)
(Knight of the Third Imperium--Strephon Himself did it to me!)

"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to =
vote."

Ambassador Kosh
BABYLON FIVE

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #998
**********************************
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 27 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 999



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [off topic]
Re: Skills, Attributes, and so forth
Re: Jumps fixed at 1 Week - It's Official!
Re: Fission Rockets, part deux
Dismountable Tanks
Re: Second THUDDD: Call for designs!
RAAM-Page Warhead Modules
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: In-system Traveller?
RE: TSR=?
RE: TSR=?
Re: Fission Rockets in Real Life?
Re: micro survey
Magic grapples
What does TSR stand for? (They Sue Regularly?)
Re: Roswell Incident
Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)
Re: Skills, Attributes, and so forth
Re: micro survey

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 19:57:47 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: [off topic]

In a message dated 2/26/97 2:47 AM, Anders Backman wrote:

>>This has been bugging me for a while, and I didn't feel like paying a
>>shrink to help me work it out.  You DON'T need that @%$&ing mailto in
>>there...  It's automatically a HOTLINK in MS Internet Mail.  Accept the
>>inevitable.  Join us or die.  Stop using that mailer with a funky name.
>>Anything "lite" always tastes bad.  ;-)
>
>Eudora adheres to internet standards while MS does not and that is why the
>majority (yes check the facts) of internetters use Eudora be it pro or
>lite. When you grow up you'll probably also use the proper tools.

Whoooaaa... And I thought Ken used a patronizing tone. ;-) <just kiddin, 
Ken>

Now, I'm certainly not going to argue *for* MS Internet Mail. Gawd knows 
I hate the way MS mail newbies flood my downloads folder with fracking 
MIME attachments...

But, I *hate* Eudora. What a pain in the arse interface...

FWIW, I'm using Claris Emailer v.2.0 beta at the moment, and I feel quite 
fulfilled and grown-up, thank-you. This tool is proper. So far it seems 
to be adhering to Internet standards.

===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 19:57:43 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Skills, Attributes, and so forth

In a message dated 2/25/97 10:55 PM, Trent Smith wrote:

>     In order to maintain some sense of balance and proportion here, 
>increasing
>attributes MUST be made more costly than increasing skills, simply because 
>the
>effects are so much more far-reaching.  In order to maintain balance, I'd say
>that the stat cost should be 3 to 4 times the skill cost, so in our example
>above, Option One could only increase his DEX to 10 (@ 3 pts) and get 4 
>level-1
>skills, giving him target numbers of 11-- he's still more versatile than
>option two, but also not quite as "good" in his areas of expertise, and thus
>more balanced.
>                                                                 
>     I strongly urge all pro-stat people to give this modification
>consideration, because wihout it, character generation will become an abusive
>player's paradise, and will cause endless headaches for GMs and players
>(especially non-statistically minded ones) alike.

You make a very good point. There is one potential drawback to your 
solution: what about poor slobs that have really low attributes to begin 
with? Should they be penalized as much as someone who has a 12 and wants 
to raise it to 13? Also, there's the bookkeeping involved in keeping 
track of how many attribute "points" have been accumulated.

I'm going to reiterate a suggestion I've made w.r.t. attribute increases.

If a player chooses an attribute increase, make him/her roll a "success 
throw":

Roll: 3D6-3
The number needs to be greater than current attribute in order to 
increase it one point.

Since there's a 50% chance of rolling 8+ on 3d6-3, those with an 
attribute of 7 (average) have a 50/50 chance of gaining a point. Chances 
drop dramatically as attributes increase. (There's that amazing bell 
curve again! ;-P)

So, super-characters with attributes of 15 become a whooole lot rarer.

I see this "success throw" as once again shifting the emphasis on skills, 
but keeping the attributes important. During generation, is someone with 
an above-average attribute going to risk the throw and miss out on his 
skill? If someone fails a throw or two, maybe she'll decide to stick with 
the "sure thing" and pick an interesting or important skill.

Whattya think? Does 3d6-3 make a good curve for gaining points? Does this 
char-gen modification put attribute and skill selection on more equal 
footing?

===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 19:57:37 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: Jumps fixed at 1 Week - It's Official!

In a message dated 2/26/97 5:20 AM, Andy Lilly wrote:

>It's all part of the "maintainance of velocity vector", "can't see or
>manoeuvre in Jump space", "sealed bubble", "cross fingers before Jumping
>because you can't change things once you're in there" sort of mentality that
>I always associated with Jump... then there's my "Variable Density Jump
>Dimension" theory which (through analogy) tries to explain why a Jump is one
>week long without needing to worry about things cooling down... I think that
>was sent with my thrusters document to IG back when they were first
>developing T4.

I guess some people want a little more explaination than "it's that way 
'cuz Marc said so". Me, I've always advocated not changing the rules 
unless there's a darn good reason, and back when Ken had crazy ideas 
about basing jump times on the power of the drive, he said something like 
"unless someone can come up with a logical pseudo-scientific 
explanation..."

Not being one to turn down a challenge, and also wincing at the "heresy" 
Ken was committing by changing the one week rule Marc handed down from on 
high, upon which all of Traveller history was based, I expounded my 
theory.

Sure, nothing's new, I'm not *changing* anything. Just adding 
versimilitude and -- what's that word others have used? Bullshittium. ya, 
that's it. I kept the "jump mentality", as you put it, in mind when I 
invented the explanation.

BTW, I'm interested in hearing your "Variable Density Jump Dimension" 
theory...

>Maybe it's just my sad English sarcastic/ironic/depressive mentality that I
>can't quite see what the excitement's about? =8-)

Well, as Mike Sellers has pointed out in another post, one thing about 
coming up with pseudo-scientific logical explanations is that they invite 
logical extensions: Loopholes!

If one assumes the one week jump time is based upon limitations in 
technology and materials, then ultra-high tech Yaskoydray types can strap 
a jumpsuit laced with a "yttrium and copper clathrate surrounding a rare 
lanthanum isotope" and 'port to wherever they want in a matter of hours.

Sometimes, the explanation answers other questions... for instance, If 
the grid needs to cool down so the field drops and the ship enters normal 
space, than it's probably a good idea to make sure the field drops 
symmetrically. That gives the engineers something to do in jumpspace: 
Monitoring the grid and the field. So the question "What the heck do the 
engineers do once the ship is in jumpspace?" is answered.

If boring, pseudo-science technobabble doesn't interest a 
sarcastic/ironic/depressive person such as yourself, I guess you must 
really hate Star Trek episodes, eh? >:-)

===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:15:21 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Fission Rockets, part deux

> In all, 23 tests were conducted at the Nevada Test Site at the Nuclear
> Rocket Development Station, NRDS."


There is some speculation that the NERVA rocket was used in a 
flight testbed in Texas.  There was UFO (Note, I didn't say Martian
Invaders) overflight of a remote highway, in which the occupants of 
a car stopped to look at a flaming object crossing the sky at very 
low altitude.  These two women suffered from radiation poisoning 
and the paint on their car bubbled off.  Shortly after the object
crossed the road, a bunch of military helicopters flew by in the same
direction.  The D.O.D. denies the allegation that they ever flight
tested a nuclear rocket however.

Eric Freitas
edf@atlantic.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:44:13 +0800
From: crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew)
Subject: Dismountable Tanks

Idiot/Savant <idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz> wrote

>[My comments again]
>>> Not only does it suffer from the Passanger Bug, it also seems that
>>> Ketaru Aerospace needs to check up on the proper use of dismantalable
>>> tanks. This ship seems fundamentally broken.
>
>> Nope.  This is confusing collapsible bladders (storable at 5%) and
>> folding dismountable tankage (storable at 25%).  From QSDS 1.5: [...]
>
> Urk. When did _that_ piece of canon change? [IIRC previous versions of
>Traveller have always said that demountables can't be used to increase
>single-jump range - instead, they allow multiple jumps]
>

MT used the same rules as T4.  Collapsible tanks had to pump the fuel into
the ships normal tanks before use.  Dismountable tanks (or external tanks)
can be used directly by the drives (which I assume means Jump Drive as well
as Power Plant).

Of course MT ships have the advantage that their power plants are so
inefficient, and the jump fuel volume smaller that you can normally do a
second jump from your power plant fuel if you are willing to lose some
endurance (or have no choice).

David Crew
crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:20:16 +0000
From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
Subject: Re: Second THUDDD: Call for designs!

Re: Merc Cruiser THUDDD

Rhodes Shipyards will not be tendering a design for the Merc Cruiser due to previous 
commitments on the Development of The TL C Ueknou Class Light Escort for The 
Federation of Aagrrovor (Vargr Friendly Government)

**roleplaying off**
too busy at work

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:25:30 -0600
From: "sinbad@dfw.net" <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: RAAM-Page Warhead Modules

Attention!!!!Attention!!!!Attention!!!!Attention!!!!

The following is an announcement from Reddkneck Arms and Munitions (RAAM)

Greetings fellow beings, Today is a great day every freedom loving sapients
through out the Galaxy. We here at RAAM are proud to announce that the much
whispered about "RAAM-Page Warhead Modules" are available for sale. 

We know that rumors have been circulating that the Imperium and other small
thinking instellar governments have been trying to suppress announcement. 

Well the rumors are true but with the help of CRASH were able to "hack"
through the red tape and get this announcement out.

This message is going out to all being with the jack, dollars, yen, credits
or kittens and the highest testosterone levels!!! 

Come down to RAAM at Liberty Hall/Beyond and get you some equalizers. 

Is that patrol cruiser becoming too nosy, well get yourself some RAAM-Page
Warhead Modules, and trim that nosy patrol cruiser back a few meters.

Has your government local or interstellar really started cramping your
lifestyle? Well get you some our State Of The Art (SOTA) warhead modules.
Show those governments that you are wannabe Tyrant and/or Dictator to
respected and feared.

Just remember that great line from the 2D movie "Dark Star"---"In the
beginning there was darkness, let there be LIGHT" With our RAAM-Page
Warhead Modules just light up a few of those pesky busybodys. Trust that
the survivors will back off and give you your space.

For the first 135th costumer we will throw in FREE and I mean FREE
radiation counter.

Every Wednesday is Two for One Tyrant specials. Every Friday is Double
Dictator coupons. 

Every customer get a GLOW IN THE DARK bumper sticker that says "Peace thru
superior mass destruction"

Every transaction paid for in live kittens get a FREE megaton upgrade!!!!

Just go Spinward of the Spinward Marches, follow the glowing plants (happy
customers) till you get to Liberty Hall/Beyond.

Ok here it comes!!!!!!
____________________________________________________
0.1 m3 Module "Bottle"
            Warhead          MCr    CSC
Yield       Number   Mass    Cost   Damage
50t         82       0.6478  0.041  39
100t        52       0.624   0.052  44
500t        38       0.646   0.19   57
1kt         27       0.621   0.27   63
2kt         20       0.62    0.4    71
5kt         15       0.6     0.75   83
10kt        12       0.612   1.2    93
20kt        9        0.567   1.8    106
50kt        8        0.624   4      121
100kt       6        0.564   6      135
200kt       5        0.565   10     150
500kt       4        0.536   20     171
1Mt         4        0.632   40     184
2Mt         3        0.555   60     211
5Mt         2        0.428   100    241
10Mt        2        0.492   200    260
20Mt        2        0.562   400    297
50Mt        1        0.319   500    339
100Mt       1        0.36    1000   366
200Mt       1        0.405   2000   417
500Mt       1        0.453   5000   476
1,000Mt     1        0.505   10000  514
2,000Mt     1        0.562   20000  587

1 m3 Module    "Keg"
            Warhead          MCr     CSC
Yield       Number   Mass    Cost    Damage
50t         972      7.7     0.486   39
100t        618      7.4     0.618   44
500t        453      7.7     2.265   57
1kt         324      7.5     3.24    63
2kt         243      7.5     4.86    71
5kt         189      7.6     9.45    83
10kt        147      7.5     14.7    93
20kt        117      7.4     23.4    106
50kt        95       7.4     47.5    121
100kt       79       7.4     79      135
200kt       66       7.5     132     150
500kt       55       7.4     275     171
1Mt         47       7.4     470     184
2Mt         40       7.4     800     211
5Mt         35       7.5     1750    241
10Mt        30       7.4     3000    260
20Mt        26       7.3     5200    297
50Mt        23       7.3     11500   339
100Mt       20       7.2     20000   366
200Mt       18       7.3     36000   417
500Mt       16       7.2     80000   476
1,000Mt     14       7.1     140000  514
2,000Mt     13       7.3     260000  587
5,000Mt     1        0.6     50000   670


10 m3 Module   "Barrel"
            Warhead                  CSC
Yield       Number   Mass    Cost     Damage
50t         10217    81      5.11     39
100t        6501     78      6.50     44
500t        4768     81      23.84    57    
1kt         3405     78      34.05    63
2kt         2554     79      51.08    71
5kt         1986     79      99.3     83
10kt        1554     79      155.4    93
20kt        1233     78      246.6    106
50kt        1007     79      503.5    121
100kt       831      78      831      135
200kt       694      78      1388     150
500kt       586      79      2930     171
1Mt         500      79      5000     184
2Mt         425      79      8500     211
5Mt         368      79      18400    241
10Mt        319      78      31900    260
20Mt        279      78      55800    297
50Mt        246      78      123000   339
100Mt       218      78      218000   366
200Mt       194      79      388000   417
500Mt       173      78      865000   476
1,000Mt     155      78      1550000  514
2,000Mt     139      78      2780000  587
5,000Mt     12       7       600000   670

All RAAM-Page Warhead Modules warheads have a timer and contact detonation
systems and is included in cost. 

Each module is packaged so to deliver the optimal dispersal pattern to the
targets' area.

Damage is for contact hit, proximity damage will less. Due to number of
warheads the FCS difficulty is not increased.

Typically RAAM ships the RAAM-Page Warhead Modules with the "Bubba" and
"Little Bubba" Missile/Torpedoes.


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:23:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

In a message dated 97-02-26 04:53:09 EST, you write:

>Kenneth.
>The wannabe heretic.
>
>

By the power vested in me by my age and cussedness, 

- ------Kenneth, you are now a heretic--------
- ------------------------Neveron-----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:39:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: In-system Traveller?

In a message dated 97-02-26 22:03:32 EST, you write:

>> From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
>> 
>> > Have any of you run a Traveller campaign that took place entirely within
>> > one star system?

Pete has us in the Glisten system and swears we will never get to leave
because he's spent so much time on the background. I think he means it
because the only ship we can get our hands on has no jump drive. Maybe you
can get him to tell you more about  The Great Space Mall...
c.j.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:43:16 -0800
From: Mike Sellers <msellers@ricochet.net>
Subject: RE: TSR=?

At 08:51 PM 2/26/97 -0500, Commander X wrote:
>> Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
>> to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
>> one of their publications!
>
>TSR stands for "Tactical Studies Rules"  I am 26 and remember that from
>memory, honest!

Then I'd say you should probably take your two bonus points and see if you
can exchange them for something a little more... ah... vivacious. :)

(Hey, *I* knew what it stood for, but I'm way over the hill at 35.)


- --

Mike Sellers        Internet Game Designer       msellers@ricochet.net

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others 
may despise it, is the invention of good games.  And it cannot be done 
by men out of touch with their instinctive values."  - Carl Jung

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:51:06 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter J. Miller" <pmiller@irevolution.com>
Subject: RE: TSR=?

At 20:51 26/02/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> Two bonus points, by the way, for the first person under 30 years of age
>> to tell me what "TSR" stands for.  No fair peaking at the fine print in
>> one of their publications!
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just a little point here.  You couldn't look in a modern publication from
TSR, as the official company name now is "TSR, Inc".  The Tactical Stuides
Rules part was dropped a while back.

Just though I'd drop in this completely off-topic comment :)
             
                              pmiller@linkeasy.net
             \-----------------------------------------------/
              \             PETER J. MILLER                 /
               \-------------------------------------------/
                \     http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/      /
                 \  Traveller, RPGs, Imperium Games FAQ  /
                  \-------------------------------------/
                        http://www.irevolution.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:54:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Fission Rockets in Real Life?

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Eric Freitas wrote:
> There is some speculation that the NERVA rocket was used in a 
> flight testbed in Texas.  There was UFO (Note, I didn't say Martian
> Invaders) overflight of a remote highway, in which the occupants of 
> a car stopped to look at a flaming object crossing the sky at very 
> low altitude.  These two women suffered from radiation poisoning 
> and the paint on their car bubbled off.  Shortly after the object
> crossed the road, a bunch of military helicopters flew by in the same
> direction.  The D.O.D. denies the allegation that they ever flight
> tested a nuclear rocket however.

*WOW!*

This sounds a *LOT* like something I read about in "Scientific American" a
while ago: a supersonic, low-altitude, robotic bomber, powered by an
atomic ram-jet (essentially an unshielded fission reactor).  According to
the article, the bomber (or, if you prefer, "cruise missle") was never
assembled and flown, but its engine was test-fired, by running compressed
air (stored in hundreds of meters of pipe) through it.  I don't trust my
memory, but I think the project was called "S.L.A.M." (which stood for
supersonic low-altitude missle, or some such thing), the atomic ram-jet
engine itself was called "Project Pluto," and the ungodly thing somehow
got the nickname "the flying crowbar."  I also recall reading that one
plan was to program the thing to fly back and forth over its target area
after delivering its payload of bombs, spewing radioactive debris...

Does this bit of late-'50s/early-'60s Cold War lunacy sound familiar to
anyone, or is some Zhodani practical joker playing with my memory? 

                                                              - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:00:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Neveron@aol.com
Subject: Re: micro survey

Did space opera really exist? Or was it just bad hallucination? Probably
around 1978-1985.
dsf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:25:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Magic grapples

With regard to Mark Clark's Broadsword QSDS design, I've always felt that
the volume cost for external grapples should be *in addition* to the
volume of the carried craft itself.  After all, an 800 Std craft with a 50
Std bump on its side is an 850 Std craft, any way you slice it.  If you
allow "free" volume for external craft, infinite abuse becomes possible --
heck, just grapple on a 90 Std "small craft" with no drives, minimal life
support, and lots of staterooms, and voila, instant extra passenger
capacity!

I believe that the QSDS and other design systems should be modified to
state (or tabulate) this cost explicitly.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:26:09 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: What does TSR stand for? (They Sue Regularly?)

>
>Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:11:01 -0800 (PST)
>From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
>Subject: Re: Craig Berry's micro survey
>
>Craig:
>
>_T_actical _Simulations _R_esearch.
Once again referring to Lawrence Schick's HEROIC WORLDS (and Lawrence was a
TSR employee in the early days) we find that TSR originallt stood for :

Tactical Studies Rules.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:05:48 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:44:47 -0800
From:  <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: 

Anders Backman wrote:
> 
> >Last year, ID4 was released on 3 July 1996.
> >
> >This was _not_ a coincindence.
> 
> It _was_ a coincidence, July 3 was the day before July 4 when all americans
> frolic and celebrate their "great" nation as was portrayed in the film.
> 

<spoiler warning!>

   Wrong.  The film takes place starting on the 50th anniversary of the
Roswell Incident and concludes on July 4th.  As it turns out the Roswell
Incident involved one of their scouting parties, which left a
scout/fighter craft behind.  Assuming near C travel, the aliens were 25
light years (more or less) away and came to rape Earth of its adundant
resources.

   Apparently no one told the aliens that everything they could get here
was available in our asteroid belt, and they could have mined it without
having to worry about a run in with the natives.

Harald Budschedl wrote:

>Yea, yea. And again THEY have to save everybody. And of course even
>their president climbs into the jet and joins the dogfight. Yea, yea ..

   The Americans may have figured out how to kill the aliens, but it was
up to the other countries of the world to do most of the fighting.  I
knew it was all over for the aliens when I saw the scene where the Iraqi
and Israeli pilots were working together to prepare for the final
mission.  Anytime you see Iraqis and Israelis agreeing on being your
common enemy, surrender NOW.

   As for the President, he was a decorated pilot from the Gulf War. 
Since this was supposed to be a kind of Last Stand, you would expect
that *anyone* who could fly an airplane straight would be handed the key
to a brand new Hornet.  Besides, it's not like other heads of state
haven't lead their armies into battle before.

>Most american "hollywood-type" films are pure propaganda. When I see
>these films I feel remembered of old clips of the "Deutsche
>Wochenschau". I mean: how naive can one be, to like or even believe
>that, nowadays?

   Right.  Better that all movies involve people sitting around in a
dimly lit room discussing their inner angst, or some deep seated social
concern that is troubling them to the point of suicide or apathy.  Lord
knows that Monty Python reaches me at numerous emotional levels, some I
can only barely perceive in a semi-concious way.  

   Look, the plot has holes large enough in it to drive a lorry (truck)
through.  Parts of the film are not particularly realistic, though the
special effects are in a word, tremendous.  Propaganda?  You're
assumption is that Hollywood films are written and produced with the
idea of turning everyone into Americans.  If only the pseudo fine arts
crowd in Hollywood was bright enough to conceive of such a conspiracy!  

   ID4 was created for American audiences.  If you as a citizen of
another country found it entertaining, wonderful, if not, well...you
weren't the target audience anyway.  I didn't get some of the political
humor references in the old Benny Hill series (created for British TV)
either, but then those jokes weren't put in for Americans anyway.

Regards,

Harold

P.S.  This discussion does raise an interesting point though.  What do
Vilani see when they watch Terran/Solomani entertainment programs? 
Would they laugh at the same things?  How much of humor (love, etc.) is
universal and how much of it is cultural?

- -h

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:07:09 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: A dice by any other name (was: I don't get it)

David J. Golden writes:

>>probability curves and task rules, we possibly do.  Just consider 
>>it an Article of Faith in the Traveller's Creed ("We believe in one 
>>die, with six sides and spots") and leave it at that.
>
>   Well, I guess I'll have to found a schism or sumthin'. Anybody else 
>wanna join me in eternal damnation?

and Eris writes:

>Ah! Another heretic leaves the church! ;->
>
>Welcome to the outer darkness.

   I'm the third in this unholy alliance I guess.  Gee, if we could just
cause another person to give up his or her immortal soul, we could be
the Four Horseman of the Apocalyse!  Can I be War, please huh? please!

Regards,

Harold (using D20s, D10s, *and* D6s to play Traveller and loving every
minute of it)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:18:06 -0800
From: rdhough@orca.bc.ca (Richard Hough)
Subject: Re: Skills, Attributes, and so forth

Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> writes:

>Under KBv1.1, stat is reduced to 4 and skill is doubled to 4.
>
>You see, they are now providing the same benefit to success--not one
>over the other.

This is not exactly true... even in Kbv1.1 stats are still dominant. The
halved stat gets applied to many different tasks and the doubled skill only
gets applied to its own tasks. Stats are still valued over skills. The
difference is that in KBv1.1 skills actually have a significant impact on
the target number, while in the T4 system skills are insignificant, so long
as you have at least a skill 1.

Consider this; why is it that having at least a skill 1 is so important? If
stats are supposed to be so overwhelming, why does it matter if your skill
is 1 or 0? It certainly makes little difference if your skill is 1 or 2.
The writers wanted to make untrained skill use really hard; how could they
do that if 'training' makes practically no difference to your target
number? Take a look on page 49. They don't use a skill of zero, or even a
negative skill. They don't increase the difficulty level, or use heavy
negative DMs. High stats easily overwhelm all such considerations. So how
do the rules make a task REALLY difficult?

It says to divide the stat by 2.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:00:53 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: micro survey

Sound sorta canonical...  Space Quest and Traveller had the same copyright
year - 1977 - I got my first copy of Space Quest from a guy selling them out
of his backpack at a local gameshop in the Wash DC area in 1977... - Bill
PS - On general principal, though, I'll agree with you because I thought CT
was the better game...


>Actually, Traveller is the second oldest RPG.  D&D, of course, is 
>the oldest.  
>
>Therefore, there were no SF RPGs before Traveller.
>
>Kenneth.
>
>




- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #999
**********************************
